Hello everyone On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 8:55 AM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR <[email protected]> wrote: > [Ron] > I dont think they were confused about what Pirsig said, I think they were > asking why some here arent so dynamic. > > [Arlo] > I don't think so, Ron. John stated, "contributors to this forum often seem > unaware of the transcendent", and yet in the overwhelming majority of posts > "Dynamic Quality" is mentioned, the term "spirationality" has been > introduced, Buddhism is often talked about, and even when direct talk of > "transcendence" is not the focus of a conversation, the undefinededness of > Dynamic Quality usually is. How does this translate into "unaware of the > transcendent"? It doesn't. What John is saying is this, "contributors to this > forum often seem unaware of that the Christian God is Quality, and as such > there should be more discussion about Christian worship and liturgy" > (because, apparently, Buddhism, the Tao, undefinedness, and pre-intellectual > awareness and does not count as 'awareness of a transcendent').
Dan: I think that is exactly right, Arlo. And since I had just been discussing transcendence with David Harding I am pretty sure John meant his post for us even though (of course) he doesn't have the sack to come right out and say so. John's post reminds me of this excerpt from Lila: "There are so many kinds of problem people like Rigel around, he thought, but the ones who go posing as moralists are the worst. Costfree morals. Full of great ways for others to improve without any expense to themselves. There's an ego thing in there, too. They use the morals to make someone else look inferior and that way look better themselves. It doesn't matter what the moral code is-religious morals, political morals, racist morals, capitalist morals, feminist morals, hippie morals-they're all the same. The moral codes change but the meanness and the egotism stay the same." Dan comments: John wants to cloak his meanness in the goodness of god but it shows through nevertheless. It always does. Notice he completely ignored me. If someone comes along and puts them in their place, these people scatter pronto. The last thing they want is confrontation with knowledge. They ply their trade on the innocent, the weak, the susceptible. > > John also said, "The way many of us communicate about the indefinable and > ineffable is through the symbolic language of worship and liturgy", and hey, > that's great. Just like a great many Buddhist monks do the same, but it > misses Pirsig's entire thesis that Quality does not require special ritual. > Its like a motorcycle mechanic opining that we don't discuss motorcycle > repair directly because he finds Quality in welding old Honda chainguards, or > a painter complaing that we don't discuss art because she experiences high > Quality moments in painting. But Pirsig's thesis is not about the particular > specifics of a Buddhist ceremony, or how to weld a chainguard, or techniques > for painting in watercolor but a philosophy that bridges all of these and > explains the experience in the immediate moment Quality that brings Buddhist > ceremonies, or welding a chainguard, or painting a watercolor, into being. Dan: Absolutely. To come into this forum advocating religion, any religion, is ludicrous. That is not what we are here for. John talks down to us, like we are poor sinners just waiting for an enlightened being such as himself to come along and show us all the way to god. What really grabs my goat is how John came into this forum posing as a person genuinely interested in the MOQ. I knew something was up but I couldn't quite put a finger on it. Now I know. He is out to spread the word. These closet christians do just that. They infiltrate to populate the word of god. > > If you want "worship and liturgy", there are churches for that. If you want > talk about the best way to weld a chainguard, there are scores of motorcycle > repair forums and local repair shops, and if you want to talk about > techniques you found helpful in creating your watercolors, there are forums > and likely local civic centers where fellow watercolor makers would relish > the talk. And hey, there is nothing wrong with chiming in and saying "I'm a > welder, and I find that in moments of Quality the self and metal disappear > and I experience a transcendence into pre-intellectual awareness", but what > does it do to complain that all the non-welders here are "unaware of the > transcendent" because they don't talk about welding? Dan: It does no good at all. This is destructive criticism. John should be ashamed of himself but I am sure he is too full of his god to even realize what hogwash he is perpetrating. The only folk who would support such nonsense is other bible thumpers waiting in the wings for a savior to arise. Anyway, you are much more eloquent than I. Thank you. Dan http://www.danglover.com Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
