What the fuck is this Adrie?
Horse
On 27/05/2013 10:25, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote:
Greetings Adrie.
Congratulations with your improved English/American, you sound like
a genuine native and also, in this post at least, air some interesting
thoughts about the MOQ.
Pirsig played with the idea that we are in need of a fift level, the
quantum level probably, but was doubting it at the same time. He is
a writer, not a theorethical physicist.
I think it was an "art" level or "code" beyond intellect Pirsig spoke
about. The quantum level below the inorganic was the pet of one Doug
Renselle in the very first months of the - then - Lila Squad. Before
DMB had begun his destruction of the MOQ with his Jamesian
"Conceptual" nonsense.
And of course , do we have to understand the fifth level on top of
the pyramid,inorganic , organic, biological,etc....or determining
the foundations of the pyramid, simply to begin with, as a level
before the inorganic?-----quality emerging from chaos?..... in this
sense, the provided article from the first link is showing a glimpse
of order emerging from chaos on a quantum-level.
Of course there is a meta-level on top, below and surrounding, not
only the static levels, but the complete DQ/SQ system, namely the
MOQ. This is what Pirsig meant by "No one can avoid metaphysics"
before he lost heart and lapsed back in SOM with the MOQ a menu
about the Quality food "out there". Quality and the MOQ are
synonymous.
Compare it to SOM. While it ruled it being a meta-system was hidden -
everyone thought the S/O was reality itself - but with Pirsig
revealing its true nature as a meta-system, the spell was broken. Now
we see that SOM is neither subjective nor objective but a meta-level s
surrounding the S/O dualism. Likewise MOQ is neither dynamic nor
static but the meta-level surrounding or containing the DQ/SQ dualism.
DMB's - and the latter-day Pirsig's - fallacy is to make the MOQ an
intellectual pattern. Completely insane, intellect is a MOQ pattern and
for it to be contained by a subset of its own is impossible according to
Pirsig's own container logic. Anyway, insisting on an "expansion of
intellect" makes the 4th a mental, mind-like level and Pirsig has
managed to "knock down the MOQ". Something he said was
impossible (in LILA) but now he has managed to do himself.
OK, I doubt you will have DMB's ear regarding this issue and - NB! -
this meta-level isn't any 5th static - nor is it dynamic - but the DQ/SQ
configuration itself. Unless we see the MOQ as reality, all taes place in
"intellect" and that's indistinguishable from SOM.
Bodvar
from [email protected] to Adrie
relayed to moqtalk.org
Please stay on the current issue's or fade away with your dada's.
2013/5/27 <[email protected]>
Greetings Adrie.
Congratulations with your improved English/American, you sound like
a genuine native and also, in this post at least, air some interesting
thoughts about the MOQ.
Pirsig played with the idea that we are in need of a fift level, the
quantum level probably, but was doubting it at the same time. He is
a writer, not a theorethical physicist.
I think it was an "art" level or "code" beyond intellect Pirsig spoke
about. The quantum level below the inorganic was the pet of one Doug
Renselle in the very first months of the - then - Lila Squad. Before
DMB had begun his destruction of the MOQ with his Jamesian
"Conceptual" nonsense.
And of course , do we have to understand the fifth level on top of
the pyramid,inorganic , organic, biological,etc....or determining
the foundations of the pyramid, simply to begin with, as a level
before the inorganic?-----quality emerging from chaos?..... in this
sense, the provided article from the first link is showing a glimpse
of order emerging from chaos on a quantum-level.
Of course there is a meta-level on top, below and surrounding, not
only the static levels, but the complete DQ/SQ system, namely the
MOQ. This is what Pirsig meant by "No one can avoid metaphysics"
before he lost heart and lapsed back in SOM with the MOQ a menu
about the Quality food "out there". Quality and the MOQ are
synonymous.
Compare it to SOM. While it ruled it being a meta-system was hidden -
everyone thought the S/O was reality itself - but with Pirsig
revealing its true nature as a meta-system, the spell was broken. Now
we see that SOM is neither subjective nor objective but a meta-level s
surrounding the S/O dualism. Likewise MOQ is neither dynamic nor
static but the meta-level surrounding or containing the DQ/SQ dualism.
DMB's - and the latter-day Pirsig's - fallacy is to make the MOQ an
intellectual pattern. Completely insane, intellect is a MOQ pattern and
for it to be contained by a subset of its own is impossible according to
Pirsig's own container logic. Anyway, insisting on an "expansion of
intellect" makes the 4th a mental, mind-like level and Pirsig has
managed to "knock down the MOQ". Something he said was
impossible (in LILA) but now he has managed to do himself.
OK, I doubt you will have DMB's ear regarding this issue and - NB! -
this meta-level isn't any 5th static - nor is it dynamic - but the DQ/SQ
configuration itself. Unless we see the MOQ as reality, all taes place in
"intellect" and that's indistinguishable from SOM.
Bodvar
------- End of forwarded message -------
--
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines
or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa
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