John said to Andre:
The essence of the Giant is SOM and if you can't see that then I don't even
know what you're doing here. ...I don't expect to get bombarded by charges of
"you just don't get the MOQ" all the time simply because my questions and
searchings go beyond the normal orthodoxy of interpretation, prevalent amongst
MDer's and most particularly you and dmb. Fair enough?
dmb says:
No, that's not fair at all. You're simply deflecting criticism by puffing
yourself up as a free-thinker and implying that your critics are just being
excessively rigid. If you had a plausible interpretation it would be smart
enough and strong enough to deal with criticism.
Your assertion (the essence of the Giant is SOM) is not plausible at all and
asserting it only shows that you're laboring under some very basic
misconceptions about the levels and their relations. To ignore the criticism is
simply not honest, as I keep saying over and over again.
To say the essence of the Giant is SOM is to claim that the essence of this
social level thing is an intellectual level thing. But these two levels are
distinct, discrete and even opposed to each. As such, one cannot be the essence
of the other. It's like saying that the essence of organic life is fame and
fortune. It's a matter of ascribing values that the Giant couldn't possibly
see. In other words, your assertion makes no sense.
"In this plain of understanding static patterns of value are dividedinto four
systems: inorganic patterns, biological patterns, socialpatterns and
intellectual patterns. They are exhaustive. That's allthere are. If you
construct an encyclopedia of four topics-Inorganic,Biological, Social and
Intellectual-nothing is left out. No "thing,"that is. Only Dynamic Quality,
which cannot be described in anyencyclopedia, is absent.
"But although the four systems are exhaustive they are not exclusive.They all
operate at the same time and in ways that are almostindependent of each other.
"This classification of patterns is not very original, but theMetaphysics of
Quality allows an assertion about them that is unusual.It says they are not
continuous. They are discrete. They have verylittle to do with one another.
Although each higher level is built ona lower one it is not an extension of
that lower level. Quite thecontrary. The higher level can often be seen to be
in opposition tothe lower level, dominating it, controlling it where possible
for itsown purposes." [Robert Pirsig, Lila]
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html
