On Friday 13 July 2007 1:13:00PM Ron writes to Joe [Ron] DQ may be undefineable but does zero represent all things or nothing? I'm trying to use logic to understand the meaning behind 1 divided by zero,for what ever you divide by zero is usually what you start with logically. Commonly, dividing by zero is superfulous it is a useless action, but dividing by everything has some meaning, I'm just trying to get this straight. I found meaning in the rounding limit, DQ has meaning when it is limited by perception. Mathmaticaly numbers run off into infinity unless a limit is set to percipitate a round and go to the next number. Without this it is meaningless, I feel this is a good metaphor for perception. As for evolution, fractile geometry, set theory and topos comes close to modeling an accurate representation. but maybe I'm looking at what your saying in too much of a objective material way, I get the feeling your speaking from a mystical perpective and that's perhaps where your losing me. thanks Joe
Hi Ron and All, DQ is a metaphor for quality, value. 1 is manifest quality. DQ is perceived metaphorically, and perception does not define the boundaries of quality. Perception defines 1. 0 does not represent all things or nothing. 0 is different from one in that one is defined and 0 is undefined. Rounding off does not set a limit to undefined quality. The change of perception which occurs with a new number is due to quality, not rounding off. Mystical experience points the finger at that change of perception which then becomes a memory of self. DQ boundaries of the level determine the perception of memories of self. Numbers run off to infinity from definition and are not self. Quality changes the definition. The periodic table does not change the definition of number and is not self. What are the limits of metaphysics? IMO the uncreated is outside metaphysics. Is a template of order outside metaphysics? No! DQ manifests a template of evolutionary order. Pirsig observes that this template, quality, has 4 levels. We all discuss the metaphysics of quality. The periodic table uses addition as its arbiter of order. Quality is not addition. IMO the limits of DQ are a metaphysical consideration. IMO the terms earth, water, air, fire taken from eastern tradition are not elemental definitions. Pirsig found India boring when they were taken as elements and society was made static into peasant, merchant, soldier, priest. An evolving earth is 0earth0, which changes through evolution the definition of number through 0water0, 0air0, 0fire0. No infinity of inorganic numbers will fit the organic template, etc. Joe [Ron] I do not know much of Gurdjieff but that he was mostly a mystic who taught self awareness through spiritual dance. I do know that Timothy Leary was influenced by his work.. If I remember correctly his thought and methods were a grand unification theory of religeon and self enlightenment. as far as mathmatic metaphors, I think I'm still pretty lost, when mysticism meets mathmatics it can tend to mean anything you like. [Joe] Unfortunately DQ is indefinable, yet basic to metaphysics. Does metaphysics include mathematics? Yes! Then mathematics in some way has to be understood metaphorically, when used to describe evolution. Four levels of evolution is a metaphor. To put semantics outside of metaphysics is to- mean anything I like. If 1 divided by 0 doesn?t make sense, would you suggest a better metaphor for the boundaries of evolution? As for Gurdjieff, IMO he is his own man as we all are. [Ron] DQ may be undefineable but does zero represent all things or nothing? I'm trying to use logic to understand the meaning behind 1 divided by zero,for what ever you divide by zero is usually what you start with logically. Commonly, dividing by zero is superfulous it is a useless action, but dividing by everything has some meaning, I'm just trying to get this straight. I found meaning in the rounding limit, DQ has meaning when it is limited by perception. Mathmaticaly numbers run off into infinity unless a limit is set to percipitate a round and go to the next number. Without this it is meaningless, I feel this is a good metaphor for perception. As for evolution, fractile geometry, set theory and topos comes close to modeling an accurate representation. but maybe I'm looking at what your saying in too much of a objective material way, I get the feeling your speaking from a mystical perpective and that's perhaps where your losing me. thanks Joe Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
