+1 agreed with your response :)
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:11 PM, Paul Stovell <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Ruby on Rails did more with less tech and less marketing budget, wtf >>> can't these two products get some healthy wins > I suspect it is because DHH doesn't run from news report to news report > telling people "Ruby on Rails is the future, no, Erlang, no, Ruby on Rails, > no, Django". It's all about confidence in the market. > Perhaps you should change that sentence to "Ruby on Rails did > more precisely because it has less marketing budget". Less hype, less spin, > less uncertainty if/when they change their mind on important matters. > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Scott Barnes <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> sorry :) i do feel a bit way to passionate about this topic lately.. >> bottom line is, i just dont like the idea SL/WPF should be parked in >> the "we may come back to this later" bay, all because of a bad >> marketing / expectation calibration set of issues.. >> >> Good tech should prevail. Ruby on Rails did more with less tech and >> less marketing budget, wtf can't these two products get some healthy >> wins :D ... >> >> Anyway :D >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:01 PM, Darren Neimke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Thanks Scott, I haven't read all of your reply yet, but I did skim >> > through >> > it quickly. By the way, I knew that you'd win the award for the longest >> > answer :-) >> > >> > My judgement is that, regardless of what the Win8, 9, or 10 team thinks. >> > Regardless of what Mary, Peter and Paul think. At the end of the day, >> > it's >> > only my opinion that really matters to me - and I feel perfectly capable >> > of >> > having a clear view based on what I've seen and heard for myself. >> > However, >> > I do accept that there will be people - both inside and outside of >> > Microsoft >> > - who do feel the need to be given their opinions by the aforementioned >> > crowd. >> > >> > Darren Neimke >> > [email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > CC: [email protected] >> > From: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? >> > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 12:52:46 +1000 >> > To: [email protected] >> > >> > I guess you can believe the below, clench your fists and sing in a >> > righteous >> > voice "viva la silverlight" walk away thinking all this PR and community >> > aggravation is misguided and that the highest ranked executive aside >> > from >> > ballmer himself got it wrong despite being briefed on silverlight every >> > 3 >> > months ranging on topics from ubiquity to roadmap selection criteria. >> > Sure I >> > can buy that but to sit and swallow that this is all just a misguided >> > youth >> > getting all sugary high from some bad journalists and how blind loyalty >> > to >> > the Microsoft ux strategy that has yet to really be shown despite >> > constant >> > signs of abandonment throughout the last 2 years is now a taboo topic of >> > choice... Yeah that I can't buy just yet. >> > Win8 team don't want silverlight. I want it, we all on this list want >> > it. >> > Wpf is dead, I love working with wpf and I do so very day and think >> > myself >> > lucky .. But it's dead in terms of marketing and future investment.. >> > The reality is this, right now the eyeball economy is bring used by >> > factions >> > internally as a beating stick on "why se should or shouldn't continue to >> > invest" - I've personally seen 3 separate threads leaked with that pulse >> > in >> > place. >> > Inside the teams we don't get to see data about how you all adopted it >> > etc >> > and so public opinion would often sway decisions ... As pathetic as that >> > sounds. >> > I sang loud and clear wpf is dead, journos picked up on it and ran with >> > it. >> > A month later the wpf team are working hard to proove my theories wrong. >> > It's not like it's the first hey heard about it... It just finally got >> > public momentum. >> > As for Microsoft learning that the public can't be trusted with honesty? >> > Hate to be the one that breaks this to all but that's the default >> > posture >> > held by majority of Microsoft teams.. Hence why MVP summits are often >> > just a >> > mix/pdc circle jerk with a different name.. >> > Hate this all u like but this is doing a lot of good internally on >> > silverlight vs HTML5 budget forecasts and resource allocations for the >> > future.. Which means more toys for you all to play with if it sways to >> > silverlights favor. >> > There isn't an unlimited supply of engineers / marketing inside >> > Microsoft .. >> > Internally it cab become a zero sum game ;) >> > -- >> > Sent from my mini iPad nano >> > (excuse my spilling and grammar as I have giant man like fingers and >> > this >> > device as small keys) >> > On 01/11/2010, at 12:27 PM, Darren Neimke <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > It's worse than that. If anything, think about what *we've* effectively >> > just told Microsoft: >> > >> > If you ever dare to try to tell us the truth, or give us information >> > which >> > is in the least bit honest, we will beat you up with a fu#$ing great big >> > stick! >> > >> > Darren Neimke >> > [email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: [email protected] >> > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:24:34 +1100 >> > Subject: Re: So, is Silverlight dead yet? >> > To: [email protected] >> > >> > I agree. This whole Silverlight debate is a beat up over nothing. >> > >> > On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Darren Neimke <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > There's a couple of things here that I think are really, really sad. >> > Firstly, a department within Microsoft comes out at an event, and they >> > use >> > plain English to show that they are supporting an exciting new >> > technology. >> > Next, a couple of groups - who make money from eyeballs - come out with >> > inflammatory comments about what has been said. Finally, people like >> > *you* >> > (whomever is reading this right now) give justification to the comments >> > made >> > by those groups by going on about it. >> > So in short, >> > >> > I don't really care who Mary Foley or TechCrunch are, or what qualifies >> > them >> > to publish stories with such an audacious and misleading title as: >> > "Microsoft: Our strategy with Silverlight has shifted" >> > Every minute and therefore money (via our eyeballs) we give to Mary and >> > TechCrunch, is a minute that is not spent working out how to get the >> > best >> > out of these 2 technologies >> > Think about the people who are writing about this "debate" (debate? >> > really?) and ask yourself what their motive is for writing in the first >> > place >> > >> > >> > Darren Neimke >> > [email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 10:51:38 +1000 >> > Subject: So, is Silverlight dead yet? >> > From: [email protected] >> > To: [email protected] >> > >> > ...at least for non-phones: >> > http://techcrunch.com/2010/10/30/rip-silverlight-on-the-web/ >> > >> > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-our-strategy-with-silverlight-has-shifted/7834 >> > http://wildermuth.com/2010/10/30/Post-PDC_HTML5_v_Silverlight_Debate >> > Paul >> > _______________________________________________ ozsilverlight mailing >> > list >> > [email protected] >> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ozsilverlight mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ ozsilverlight mailing >> > list >> > [email protected] >> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ozsilverlight mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> > >> > _______________________________________________ ozsilverlight mailing >> > list >> > [email protected] >> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> > _______________________________________________ >> > ozsilverlight mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> ozsilverlight mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight > > > > -- > Paul Stovell > > _______________________________________________ > ozsilverlight mailing list > [email protected] > http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight > > _______________________________________________ ozsilverlight mailing list [email protected] http://prdlxvm0001.codify.net/mailman/listinfo/ozsilverlight
