On 08/04/2002 03:35 PM, Maxim Maletsky wrote:
> I feel like you want Zend to develop things for free like they develop
> Zend Engine. I think it is right for them selling Zend Encoder and IDE.
> Companies still trust these products more than the free packages you
> mentioned. Do not forget, PHP is running on Zend.

I do not want Zend to develop things for free. I never said that.

As a matter of fact I do not want to use Zend commercial products at 
all, precisely because their pricing is greedy. That is my opinion and 
so is the opinion of many other PHP users. The problem is not being 
commercial, the problem is being expensive.

I have an brain and use it to make decisions that defend my interests. 
So it seems that Yahoo people that decided to use Nick Lindrige PHP 
Accelerator instead of Zend Cache.

> There is really a lot of money involved in developments. If, by some
> means, I would need to hide a source, I would look at my business model,
> and, if I got extra $3.000 budgeted to spend on development I will spend
> them for Zend Encoder instead of resorting to Open Source protecting
> solutions. Because, the product to protect my intellectual property
> would be chosen by the responsibility of its manufacture.

Maxim, be serious, you do not have to pay that sort of money to compile 
programs in other languages, why do you keep forcing the excuse to pay 
that fortune to Zend?

I am sure that many of us are not idiots to pay that fortune to Zend, 
especially now when have free alternatives.

> I think you will agree with me, Open Source is a high quality code, but
> its support is not. Open Source is never supported with the
> business-level responsibility as Zend would do.

Honestly I don't want support from greedy companies like Zend. If you go 
and examine their pricing you see that they charge for every little thing.

The only thing that that don't charge is the Zend Optimizer. But the 
truth is, if you have complex scripts, if you do not use a cache engine 
as well, using Zend optimizer makes your scripts run slower because the 
optimizer itself takes a lot of time to analyse complex scripts and in 
the end often it does not pay using the optimizer if the results are not 
cached. Make your benchmarks with complex scripts and you will see what 
I am talking about.

So, the only thing that is "free" from Zend is something that makes you 
wish even more the cache product that is bloody expensive. It took me 
some time to realize that. Some day I realized that some users were 
using mirror scripts that made many requests to a site of mine and I 
noticed that PHP was consuming an huge ammount of CPU time. I was 
suggested by a open source cache extension developer that using the 
optiomizer without a cache makes your PHP scripts hog the CPU. I turned 
Zend Optimizer off and it turned out to be true. I never used Zend 
Optimizer again.

I use APC cache and the speedup is tremendous although it is said that 
Nick Lindrige PHP Accelerator is much faster matching Zend Cache 

> About Zend CEO. I personally have attended a business meeting with Doron
> (CEO) and Zeev in Tokyo last year in June. And, I must tell you, we all
> had very good impression of them.

Of course, when you pay they will treat you nicely. It seems that when 
you refuse to pay they become unreasonable.

> If, Manuel, what they do does not make you happy - that is only your
> opinion. 

Sure, mine and of many others. I also think it is stupid to exclude Acer 
because he has different opinions than yours.

Anyway, do you agree that Zeev is right by boycotting APC people to 
contribute with they cache extension? If you do, you are just defending 
their monopoly, and so I do not have nothing else to say to you.

> Just remember, that, the future e-business will not consist of software
> development, but of its support. And Zend primarely supports PHP.

Do you work for Zend? I'm sorry but it surely looks like you do because 
you are trying are to make them look good.


Manuel Lemos

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