In case you didn't know:

Zeev Suraski and Andi Gutmans made PHP4 out of PHP3 (correct the details
if you wish). Then, they founded Zend (ZEev aNDi) and run it

Two guys always religiously contribute to PHP. Their role in PHP project
is of an IMMENSE (no, words are not enough to describe it) value, and
they do it for free.

So, as you can see, with or without Zend, PHP would exist. But, I am
pretty sure that, without Zend, PHP4 would never make it to the level it
is on right now.

Zend is, indeed, a company that keeps the commercial balance to the PHP
Open Source project.

Lots of times, companies ask for customer support and additional
libraries/extensions to the PHP programming language. Who was supposed
to do that? The 600 developers for free? No, we left Zend doing it, and
in exchange, Zend is powering every world's PHP installation up. See,
Acer, it works!

If, Acer, you really need a PHP job, tell your headhunter that Zend
exists, so that ignorant headhunter will trust PHP better.

Do you have any idea of the billions of dollars that were made with PHP
around the world? I myself run a national-level project for the Italian
Government. We’ve got dozens of PHP people involved for 2 years which is
the duration of the project. You cannot even feel the immensity of PHP.
And, ironically, PHP Dev Group still asks for free FTP mirrors.

Now, please, poor soul Acer, make us all happy - stop offending this
mailing list. 

Unfortunately, your messages pop-up on our eyes while reading this
mailing list hopping to help someone in trouble. Your senseless typing
only makes us hate you.


Maxim Maletsky

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Acer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 5:13 PM
> To: Zeev Suraski
> Cc: Justin French; php
> Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding
> Okay like I said before, Zeev is agreeing with me that php is zend and
> zend
> is php.  However, if zend dropped off the face of the planet, there
> be
> programmers to fill that void.
> Again call me a cynic but zend develops php but if you pay them
> thousand then it will run 4 times faster.  Wow that's great.  So let's
> put that much effort into php and make it run faster if you pay.  No
> conflict of interest there.
> Wow 3 million sites, that's a lot.  How many of those actually get
> then
> 1000 visitors?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zeev Suraski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: August 4, 2002 10:55 AM
> To: Acer
> Cc: Justin French; php
> Subject: RE: [PHP] Re: Protect PHP coding
> Just a couple of facts:
> 1.  If Zend did not exist, PHP 4 wouldn't have existed, at least not
> any
> way similar to what PHP 4 looks like today.  FYI, with PHP 3, it was
> impossible to write accelerators, encoders, debuggers and whatnot.
> 2.  Zend published its value-add software *2 years* ago, when it was
> really
> innovative.  The fact some of its key products were since copied by
> freeware community doesn't mean that they would have existed in the
> place.
> An opinion:
> Like others pointed out, your assertion that in order to use PHP in a
> production environment you HAVE to have an encoder or an accelerator
> ridiculous.  If I gave you a set of patches that doubles the speed of
> but offer a commercial product that quadruples it, you'd still be
> and say that you HAVE to pay in order to use PHP in a production
> environment, wouldn't you?
> And finally, another fact:
> There are 3 million PHP based web sites in the world.  Only a fragment
> them use accelerators or encoders, and you know something?  They're
> pretty darn well.
> Zeev
> At 16:45 04/08/2002, Acer wrote:
> >Okay let me clarify, I think that if Zend did not exist then php
would be
> in
> >a better position.  Why?  Because something like php-encoder would of
> filled
> >the void sooner and everyone would of benefited from encoders and
> >accelerators.
> --
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