Wanted to pass on a few comments on recruiters, from my perspective here in Silicon Valley, for what little it's worth.
My company has been growing aggressively for the last 2 years. We've worked with various external/contract recruiters over the last 18 months. Conservatively, the recruiters have submitted over 500 candidates to us. We have hired 9. Maybe we've made a few more than 9 offers, but not many more. So at least here, in this market for software engineers, the idea that recruiters will give you access or preference in the interview process is bunk IMHO. The recruiter fee here is more like 20-25%, and the pay scale is also a good bit higher than in Australia from what I can tell (ballpark $100k a year for any decent engineer, barring fresh college grads; more for experienced/specialized people). Given my assertion that recruiters just throw your resume at every company in their portfolio, hoping someone will hire you, it seems clear to me that if I can get my resume in front of the same hiring manager directly, and save him $25k, that's going to make me arguably more attractive AND give me better leverage to negotiate my pay. So, as an engineer looking for work in a hot market like this, I have zero incentive to work with recruiters unless I have no prospects. And if I don't have any prospects (no personal network? weak resume? I'm an untalented pain in the ass?), then I'm not going to land a good job anyway. As an employer, working with recruiters is a dirty but necessary game, because the only way you're going to hire 10-20 engineers in 2 years is to basically attempt to interview every software engineer in the country who might conceivably be looking for work. This is only a mild exaggeration. If a $25k fee per hire is the price of getting a few more butts in seats than we would otherwise, then so be it. Thank God we're funded. But I can guarantee you that the candidates coming from our recruiters don't get any special consideration at all. We're hoping they can sell the candidate on us, not the other way round. Did I mention the ones that just search Craigslist, Monster, etc., for people who are looking, and then push their resumes on us? Thanks, we can do that ourselves for free. All that said, I know there are some good recruiters out there, and I don't think any of them are really "screwing" anyone. It's just a hustle, like all other hustles. I couldn't do that job, even for 25k per hit. When I eventually move to Australia, where I have no network and no reputation and may not be in demand the way I am in San Francisco, I might just give you a call Ash :) On Thursday, July 12, 2012 11:02:19 PM UTC-7, Ashley P wrote: > > Chances are they might be :) > > But we aren't all bad! > > If you are a Ruby developer chances are you've probably seen my name > before either on Seek, at Ruby meet-ups or on one of those pesky > Linked-in invites I send around. I really like the Ruby community and have > a passion for working with developers to find them cool jobs. > > That being said recruitment gets a bad name especially amongst the Ruby > community. I'm here to defend our reputation but also to acknowledge our > flaws. > > Many recruiters do have no idea when it comes to development roles. They > throw out buzz words like 'Apache' or 'Object Oriented' to make it look > like they know what they are talking about. > > That being said a recruiter can often be of use. They can present > opportunities that you wouldn't have heard about, discuss potential career > movements or even help with your resume and skills training programs. > > Sure as a quality developer you could probably find a good job yourself. > But are you sure it's the best job!!? Use your own networks in addition to > a recruiter to expand the pool of jobs and find yourself in the best job > you can! > * > * > *Tips on dealing with recruiters:* > > - 1. Don't only use a recruiter. *Use your own networks as well.* Come > up with an many opportunities as you can yourself and then use a recruiter > or 2 to expand your opportunities > - 2. *Don't be pushed around on Salary/Rate*. Know what you're worth. > Be open with your salary with a friend or former colleague to know what > your worth and stick to it. (A common tactic is to ask people what they > were on previously and hold them to a salary near this. You shouldn't fall > for it. Be honest about what you were previously on but let the recruiter > / > hiring manager know that due to your research you believe the market rate > to be X and that you are hoping for a figure around that mark.) > - 3. *Ask who the client is*. Often a recruiter will want to chat to > you a bit first however, it is totally within your right to ask who the > recruiters client is after an initial chat to determine your suitability > - 4. Remember *your in control of the process. *If you don't like a > specific recruiter don't use him/her. In fact it's your right to call up > and say I don't want you representing me to X. > > *Can a recruiter really help me?* > > - Yes and no. It really depends on the relationships the recruiter has > built. > - If the recruiter is blindly sending CV's around town without having > met the hiring manager they really won't be of any use to you. > - That being said if they have built a strong relationship with the > hiring manager their word often will decide whether or not you get an > interview :). They can also act as a beneficial middle ground to assist in > negotiations and getting things moving! > > > *Recruitment Rates* > > - Are recruitment rates too high? Well honestly yes they are fairly > high but we are running a business and as you can all understand we need > to > make a profit! > - Also people don't realise the amount of effort we actually go to in > providing a short-list. Many developers think I just simply called them, > sent their resume to the company and got a massive cheque. What they don't > realise is that to get that one person a job I had to look at over 400 > resumes, speak to over 80 people and all for a 1/3 shot in actually > filling > a position. I work 8-6 and I'm a fairly quick worker! > - That being said yes some recruitment rates are too high and > companies need to be smart on who they use. > > Anyway if your looking for a recruiter who loves the Ruby community and > who actually cares about your career please give me a call. I won't screw > you over and I'm available after-hours with bookings and all conversations > are 100% confidential. > > [email protected]. 0404-590-975. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rails-oceania/-/jGz_MdTD6moJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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