And wearing them to work in his carpenter's shop would be just fine. However, remember we are not talking about the work place, but the outpost of ministry. Ministry of setting the example. Submit to those in authority, why buck the system and wonder where the boys learn it from?
In His Grip, DJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Star'Eyed Drifter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:57 PM Subject: WWJD? [RR] Camo uniforms? > > *Course, If Jesus was a young Isreali apprentice carpenter.. > today he just might wear army suplus BDU's to work<G> > > Doc > > --- Jeff & Ellrena Ortner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The item sent from a email Scout page is not what we trying to promote, > > it > > is a understanding of the problems that could, do and will happen at > > camps. > > WE DO NOT go by BSA standards, but we do glean from over 100 years of > > experience. If not, look at the resources of where our Royal Rangers > > leaders > > manual came from, and read the credits were we got our information. I > > too > > don't go y scout rules of BSA but I have to agree with Ronnie Franklin > > about Camo's and para-military looks today. Setting the right image to a > > lost world is very important, Using fatigues is not camo, and solid > > colors > > is what we use as a summer wear. Khaki 6-pocket fatigues, many of the > > boys > > wear the hiking pants that look just like them. I see nothing wrong > > wearing > > this as it doesn't portray a military style look. > > CAMO DOES and WILL cause people to take a second curious look at > > what > > kind of group you are. I see no good in wearing shirts or pants in > > camo > > colors for class C, D, or F uniforms. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jonathan Marcantel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 PM > > Subject: [Leaders] Re: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group > > > > > > > Gentlemen- > > > > > > Far be it for me to assert my opinion- for I have been in Rangers for > > only > > > just over 2 years (as a Pioneer Cdr.) Why are we using BSA guidelines > > to > > > argue (for or against) uniform regs in Rangers? Here's my take on > > this > > > subject. > > > > > > I feel that wearing BDU pants during Rangers is ok; we prefer the boys > > to > > > wear their khakis, however, Calcasieu Parish (Louisiana is governed by > > > Napoleonic Code, not Common Law, hence parish) School Board instituted > > a > > > dress code for K-12th grades. The uniform pants are blue or khaki > > with > > > white, green or blue shirt. Anyway, alot of my boys only have 2 pair > > of > > > khaki pants that they own- they use them for school and for Rangers. > > > Therefore, we allow the boys to wear Class A, B, or C uniforms to the > > > meetings. Class C as I can best remember (cant quote- @ school and my > > LM > > is > > > at the house) is Blue jeans or BDU pants with Ranger Tshirt. So > > here's my > > > point: why use BSA stuff to govern Rangers?! THIS IS NOT BOY SCOUTS! > > WE > > ARE > > > ROYAL RANGERS. There is a BIG difference, right from the get go. And > > > before you ask, I was in Boy Scouts as a kid. So please, if you are > > going > > > to continue to use BSA references, stop, look it up in your Royal > > Rangers > > > Leaders Manual (that every commander should own a copy of...ours were > > > provided with our training material during LTC) and quote from there. > > And > > > while I am ranting, didnt we have this same discussion about quoting > > BSA > > > regs instead of RR regs awhile back?? BSA regs on uniforms have NO > > bearing > > > WHATSOEVER on our Royal Ranger uniform regs. > > > > > > Thanks for lettimg me rant, > > > > > > Jonathan Marcantel > > > Pioneer Cdr. > > > OP 109 > > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > > From: "Jeff Ortner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group > > > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500 > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Received: from [209.48.241.70] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > > > MHotMailBE97F64B00A740043752D130F14607C50; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:01 > > -0700 > > > Received: from ace.htcomp.net (ace.htcomp.net [207.17.189.146]) by > > > mailsvr-2.itexas.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.1.219) with ESMTP id > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Tue, 30 > > > Apr 2002 09:39:08 -0500 > > > Received: from htcomp.net (unverified [127.0.0.1]) by ace.htcomp.net > > > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 5.2.3) with ESMTP id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > Tue, > > 30 > > > Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500 > > > From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:58 -0700 > > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 1, 3 > > > X-EM-Registration: #00E0620610781F002A20 > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Read this and do agree with it too concerning Rangers in the same > > > boat about Camo clothing. Thet have a few stinks too, > > > > > > Camouflage/Military Uniforms and Scouting > > > > > > Hi Scouters! > > > This is a LONG POSTING because the questions and the followups > > > deserved to be answered as completely as possible. I've also kept > > > Mike Craig's original question as well as the e-mail addresses to > > > others who contributed to the answering of this question while I have > > > them. > > > > > > Mike Craig wrote and asked on rec.scouting.usa: > > > > > > We have had three scouts families join our troop in the last 2 months > > > from troops based on military bases. All three fathers were/are > > > registered adults, one of the adults still wears his district > > > commissioner shirt. All have told our troop committee that wearing > > > military camouflage pants and jackets is acceptable within the BSA > > > policy. Our troop is not stationed on any base, and several other > > > adults are questioning this 'policy'. > > > > > > Mike: > > > > > > Your "District Commissioner" guy is lying. > > > > > > Out and out, he's lying. > > > > > > The Boy Scouts of America does NOT approve of ANY camo clothing for > > > wear by youth members nor adults at ANY TIME. > > > > > > The immediate reference to this is found in the first pages of the > > > BSA's Insignia Guide where it states that "imitation of military > > > uniforms and clothing is not permitted under the BSA's Charter and > > > Bylaws and in accordance with federal law relating to the wear of > > > that clothing." (those aren't the exact words, but it's close enough > > > to the exact words; later, I'll find the exact wording and post > > > it...). > > > > > > I AM a military officer, Mike, and I also served as a former District > > > Commissioner. I KNOW that some "army people" will want to wear "army > > > gear" to give the BSA program some sort of "specialness" they think > > > isn't there already in the program. What I tell them, besides that > > > it's illegal under FEDERAL LAW (and the Uniform Code of Military > > > Justice, which gets their attention REALLY QUICKLY!), is that this is > > > like a soldier showing up for work in a pair of Scout pants and a BDU > > > (Battle Dress Uniform, the "work uniform" of the Army) shirt. > > > > > > There has been NO MOVE, no discussion, not even any kind of > > > consideration toward wearing ANY form of camoed gear by Scouts, > > > Explorers/Venturers, or Scouters. > > > > > > Just to let the guy know, Mike: In 1996, two Scouters wearing camoed > > > pants and a Scouts shirt were REFUSED ENTRY into a Council Camporee > > > by the Scout Executive of that Council. The Scout Executive informed > > > them of the BSA's uniforming policy and told them that unless they > > > choose to be in compliance with that policy, they would not be > > > allowed entry into the Camporee. One adult complied; the other adult > > > re-asserted his personal right to wear whatever the hell he wanted to > > > wear. The Scout Executive simply said "fine", both Scouters went into > > > the camp facility. > > > > > > An hour later, the Scout Executive, accompanied by the local County > > > sheriff, served the Scouter still wearing the camo gear with a > > > "letter of membership denial", and advised him that since he is no > > > longer a registered member of the BSA, that his presence on the > > > campground is no longer welcomed. He was given 15 minutes to pack out > > > his gear, and he and his son (because the man said "If I go, my son > > > goes too...") was escorted off the camp property by the law > > > enforcement people. > > > > > > The message THAT Scout Executive, in central Alabama (the home to > > > hunters, trappers and outdoorsmen of all persuasions) gave was that > > > "there's no place in the BSA for militaristic uniforming." > > > > > > So, Mike, you might want to share this little tidbit of information > > > with your "former District Commissioner" friend and let him know.... > > > > > > The same statement found in the Charter and Bylaws is found in the > > > BSA's Insignia Guide. > > > > > > It does NOT matter, Mike, if the person used to be a Scouter in > > > Europe or Asia. The SAME policy applies for Scouters there as they do > > > for Scouters in the States. I have been a Scouter in Europe for many > > > years, and I can tell you that we in Scouting Europe are even MORE > > > hard-nosed about the wearing of camo than our peers in the States > > > are...because we're there and are aware of the possible "mixed > > > message" that wearing such things can produce among our "host > > > nations" and their Scouting associations. > > > > > > Other then the Handbook, where can I find the documented Policy for > > > the BSA uniform? Is a copy of this document on the web? Do the BSA > > > Policy or Guidelines specifically address camouflage clothing? If so, > > > === message truncated === > > > ===== > *High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership. > --------------********+********-------------------- > Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower, > of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself, > and both in the .....cause! > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness > http://health.yahoo.com > _______ > Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. > > Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm > http://rangernet.org _______ Let the Golden Rule be your daily rule. Please pray for your list sponsor: http://eBible.org/mpj/ To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://rangernet.org/subscribe.htm http://rangernet.org
