*Course, If Jesus was a young Isreali apprentice carpenter.. today he just might wear army suplus BDU's to work<G>
Doc --- Jeff & Ellrena Ortner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The item sent from a email Scout page is not what we trying to promote, > it > is a understanding of the problems that could, do and will happen at > camps. > WE DO NOT go by BSA standards, but we do glean from over 100 years of > experience. If not, look at the resources of where our Royal Rangers > leaders > manual came from, and read the credits were we got our information. I > too > don't go y scout rules of BSA but I have to agree with Ronnie Franklin > about Camo's and para-military looks today. Setting the right image to a > lost world is very important, Using fatigues is not camo, and solid > colors > is what we use as a summer wear. Khaki 6-pocket fatigues, many of the > boys > wear the hiking pants that look just like them. I see nothing wrong > wearing > this as it doesn't portray a military style look. > CAMO DOES and WILL cause people to take a second curious look at > what > kind of group you are. I see no good in wearing shirts or pants in > camo > colors for class C, D, or F uniforms. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jonathan Marcantel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:40 PM > Subject: [Leaders] Re: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group > > > > Gentlemen- > > > > Far be it for me to assert my opinion- for I have been in Rangers for > only > > just over 2 years (as a Pioneer Cdr.) Why are we using BSA guidelines > to > > argue (for or against) uniform regs in Rangers? Here's my take on > this > > subject. > > > > I feel that wearing BDU pants during Rangers is ok; we prefer the boys > to > > wear their khakis, however, Calcasieu Parish (Louisiana is governed by > > Napoleonic Code, not Common Law, hence parish) School Board instituted > a > > dress code for K-12th grades. The uniform pants are blue or khaki > with > > white, green or blue shirt. Anyway, alot of my boys only have 2 pair > of > > khaki pants that they own- they use them for school and for Rangers. > > Therefore, we allow the boys to wear Class A, B, or C uniforms to the > > meetings. Class C as I can best remember (cant quote- @ school and my > LM > is > > at the house) is Blue jeans or BDU pants with Ranger Tshirt. So > here's my > > point: why use BSA stuff to govern Rangers?! THIS IS NOT BOY SCOUTS! > WE > ARE > > ROYAL RANGERS. There is a BIG difference, right from the get go. And > > before you ask, I was in Boy Scouts as a kid. So please, if you are > going > > to continue to use BSA references, stop, look it up in your Royal > Rangers > > Leaders Manual (that every commander should own a copy of...ours were > > provided with our training material during LTC) and quote from there. > And > > while I am ranting, didnt we have this same discussion about quoting > BSA > > regs instead of RR regs awhile back?? BSA regs on uniforms have NO > bearing > > WHATSOEVER on our Royal Ranger uniform regs. > > > > Thanks for lettimg me rant, > > > > Jonathan Marcantel > > Pioneer Cdr. > > OP 109 > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "Jeff Ortner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [Leaders] Camo Uniforms, NOPE not for my group > > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Received: from [209.48.241.70] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id > > MHotMailBE97F64B00A740043752D130F14607C50; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:01 > -0700 > > Received: from ace.htcomp.net (ace.htcomp.net [207.17.189.146]) by > > mailsvr-2.itexas.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.1.219) with ESMTP id > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Tue, 30 > > Apr 2002 09:39:08 -0500 > > Received: from htcomp.net (unverified [127.0.0.1]) by ace.htcomp.net > > (Rockliffe SMTPRA 5.2.3) with ESMTP id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > Tue, > 30 > > Apr 2002 09:38:31 -0500 > > From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:34:58 -0700 > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > X-EM-Version: 6, 0, 1, 3 > > X-EM-Registration: #00E0620610781F002A20 > > X-Priority: 3 > > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Read this and do agree with it too concerning Rangers in the same > > boat about Camo clothing. Thet have a few stinks too, > > > > Camouflage/Military Uniforms and Scouting > > > > Hi Scouters! > > This is a LONG POSTING because the questions and the followups > > deserved to be answered as completely as possible. I've also kept > > Mike Craig's original question as well as the e-mail addresses to > > others who contributed to the answering of this question while I have > > them. > > > > Mike Craig wrote and asked on rec.scouting.usa: > > > > We have had three scouts families join our troop in the last 2 months > > from troops based on military bases. All three fathers were/are > > registered adults, one of the adults still wears his district > > commissioner shirt. All have told our troop committee that wearing > > military camouflage pants and jackets is acceptable within the BSA > > policy. Our troop is not stationed on any base, and several other > > adults are questioning this 'policy'. > > > > Mike: > > > > Your "District Commissioner" guy is lying. > > > > Out and out, he's lying. > > > > The Boy Scouts of America does NOT approve of ANY camo clothing for > > wear by youth members nor adults at ANY TIME. > > > > The immediate reference to this is found in the first pages of the > > BSA's Insignia Guide where it states that "imitation of military > > uniforms and clothing is not permitted under the BSA's Charter and > > Bylaws and in accordance with federal law relating to the wear of > > that clothing." (those aren't the exact words, but it's close enough > > to the exact words; later, I'll find the exact wording and post > > it...). > > > > I AM a military officer, Mike, and I also served as a former District > > Commissioner. I KNOW that some "army people" will want to wear "army > > gear" to give the BSA program some sort of "specialness" they think > > isn't there already in the program. What I tell them, besides that > > it's illegal under FEDERAL LAW (and the Uniform Code of Military > > Justice, which gets their attention REALLY QUICKLY!), is that this is > > like a soldier showing up for work in a pair of Scout pants and a BDU > > (Battle Dress Uniform, the "work uniform" of the Army) shirt. > > > > There has been NO MOVE, no discussion, not even any kind of > > consideration toward wearing ANY form of camoed gear by Scouts, > > Explorers/Venturers, or Scouters. > > > > Just to let the guy know, Mike: In 1996, two Scouters wearing camoed > > pants and a Scouts shirt were REFUSED ENTRY into a Council Camporee > > by the Scout Executive of that Council. The Scout Executive informed > > them of the BSA's uniforming policy and told them that unless they > > choose to be in compliance with that policy, they would not be > > allowed entry into the Camporee. One adult complied; the other adult > > re-asserted his personal right to wear whatever the hell he wanted to > > wear. The Scout Executive simply said "fine", both Scouters went into > > the camp facility. > > > > An hour later, the Scout Executive, accompanied by the local County > > sheriff, served the Scouter still wearing the camo gear with a > > "letter of membership denial", and advised him that since he is no > > longer a registered member of the BSA, that his presence on the > > campground is no longer welcomed. He was given 15 minutes to pack out > > his gear, and he and his son (because the man said "If I go, my son > > goes too...") was escorted off the camp property by the law > > enforcement people. > > > > The message THAT Scout Executive, in central Alabama (the home to > > hunters, trappers and outdoorsmen of all persuasions) gave was that > > "there's no place in the BSA for militaristic uniforming." > > > > So, Mike, you might want to share this little tidbit of information > > with your "former District Commissioner" friend and let him know.... > > > > The same statement found in the Charter and Bylaws is found in the > > BSA's Insignia Guide. > > > > It does NOT matter, Mike, if the person used to be a Scouter in > > Europe or Asia. The SAME policy applies for Scouters there as they do > > for Scouters in the States. I have been a Scouter in Europe for many > > years, and I can tell you that we in Scouting Europe are even MORE > > hard-nosed about the wearing of camo than our peers in the States > > are...because we're there and are aware of the possible "mixed > > message" that wearing such things can produce among our "host > > nations" and their Scouting associations. > > > > Other then the Handbook, where can I find the documented Policy for > > the BSA uniform? Is a copy of this document on the web? Do the BSA > > Policy or Guidelines specifically address camouflage clothing? If so, > === message truncated === ===== *High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership. --------------********+********-------------------- Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower, of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself, and both in the .....cause! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! 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