Some of my best friends are Assholes.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Salisbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 2:37 PM Subject: Re: R:Street > This (text by Ken Brown) is very well written. > I wish I had written it. > > Dennis has apologized for his transgression(s) > and I object to his removal from the list. > > How many of us on this list have benefited > from Dennis McGrath's posts? A great > many, I'm sure. > > Quite frankly, the bottom line is, IMHO, > Dennis McGrath is knowledgeable and > helpful. His lack of presence on the list is a > loss to the R:BASE community. Dennis > McGrath's contributions to this list far > exceed his transgressions. > > We're all adults. Harsh language is not > appropriate on the list but I'm not going to > sit here and pretend that it in any way > offends me. I'm not condoning the use of > harsh language and I'm not condoning any > conduct that is abusive to any member of > the list. Having said that, I find it amusing > that there are those who will sit around and > pretend to be offended by such language > when it is convenient to do so. > > How far will Dennis and RBTI take this? > It's time to bury the hatchet guys. This type > of thing just doesn't do anyone any good. > > Scott > ==== > Ken Brown wrote: > > > Re: Dennis > > > > > At this point, neither your attitude nor your presence is at > > > all productive or benevolent on this list, or with the R:BASE > > > community at large. > > > > That's a pretty large and sweeping statement. I also do not think it is > > true and resembles the remark of a scolding school teacher. Further, you > > are way out of line here, IMO. > > > > > Why don't you do us all a favor, and unsubscribe to this list, > > > and go on your way doing whatever it is that you do best. If > > > you are that unhappy with R:BASE or RBTI, there are other > > > products and options out there, and it would be in the best > > > interest of all for your to pursue these. > > > > And now you are *WAY* out of line. If you are speaking personally, that is > > one thing. If you are using your position with RBTI (evidently true by your > > sig line), then you are acting in a manner I hope you reconsider. If your > > statement above in any way reflects you in your position as Director, > > Custopmer Support then I am very concerned. I mention it only so that it is > > brought to the attention of yourself, your superiors and the list in > > general. If it is a potential problem (which it may not be), it should be > > addressed and remedied. Perhaps it is merely personal frustration and > > opinion? If so, a simple apology will suffice and we all move on. > > > > I also disagree with you. I wish to see Dennis remain and provide input. > > His experience with R:Base goes back many, many years. And your remark "do > > us all a favor" is pretty personal in nature, contrary to the specific goals > > of this list. In other words, a personal remark is a personal remark and > > uncalled for - a matter of quantity, not quality. Dennis quoted a remark, > > you are on an affirmative attack. In esence, you have made a "problem" > > worse. > > > > > All we at RBTI ask is that you leave your personal personal > > > conflicts out of the public view, and leave Razzak and us > > > alone to continue doing what we do best. > > > > Are you speaking for RBTI as a whole? Is it your position to do so? Is > > RBTI this list? Is it the final arbiter of all who may read this list? Are > > the goals of this list directly tied to RBTI? Am I wrong in thinking the > > goal of this list was to act as an information conduit for R:Base users? > > > > If it is a prerequistie to read this list that I be a rah-rah supporter of > > RBTI and act in a personal manner, then I shall unsubscribe and go to a more > > professional list. R:Street may be an option for me (Scott produced a FINE > > newsletter in the past) and I would hope all other professionals interested > > in R:Base and our industry as whole would also read R:Street. > > > > I use R:Base, I think it is a FINE tool for getting the job done. Ther > > personal issues of RBTI, etc. are of no interest to me. I have been reading > > (and participating in) newsgroups and lists for well over a decade.. almost > > two decades actually. I will not associate myself with an unprofessional > > group. > > > > Dennis had an email slip and It was an error; he apologized. So what? Drop > > it. Your insistance on bringing it up (and actually quoting it again so it > > is broadcast all over.. AGAIN) is counterproductive and does nothing to > > advance this list, or R:Base. IOW, pot, kettle, black. > > > > In addition, his remark was in quotes - it is unclear if he said it or is > > quoting someone else. And who cares? I am sure I am considered many things > > by many people, but I could care less - my work speaks for itself and I am > > an adult, as well as a professional. What people may, or may not, think of > > Razzak personally is not an issue, nor is it a prerequisite to using R:Base > > or reading the list. Or is it?? > > > > > And in case you > > > are unaware of exactly what it is that sets us apart, ask some > > > of the RESPECTABLE and PROFESSIONAL developers > > > how we work to provide them everything possible to meet > > > their needs. There are MANY members of this list who can > > > attest to this, and who can appreciate how we try to do > > > business. > > > > That wasn't an issue in any email I have seen - why bring it up? Are you > > being a wee bit defensive here?? Are you now dragging more of your personal > > issues with Dennis into the list?? I have been reading the list for years > > (way back to Harry Bass days) and it has never been an issue to my > > knowledge. In fact, I do believe Dennis contributed greatly to the overall > > R:Base tools development and as such should be held in high regard, right > > below such names as Wayne and Anne. Without the tools to make using R:Base > > a little easier, R:Base could quite easily fall to the side as being "too > > difficult" by some folks. Dennis has increased R:Base use, not decreased > > it. > > > > FYI and for a little bit of history, I started the first FTP site for R:Base > > materials on the "Internet" and spread the word on my own in newsgroups on > > Usenet. This was back when Microrim only had a BBS and there was no way for > > people to access that BBS without a long distance phone call. I > > re-published the public access R:Base info from the BBS (with approval) and > > made it more accessible to any user any where that could get to an FTP site. > > > > I mention the above to let you know I am a long-standing supporter of > > R:Base. I consider the product individually from the company itself. > > Always have, always will. And *even if* Wayne was a royal jerk and an ass > > (which he isn't, IMO), it wouldn't matter!! R:Base is a fine product. > > > > I am pleased you are proud of what you do and have great faith in your > > efforts - it is critical to success. However, taking things to a religious > > fervor is unnecessary and counterproductive in a "PROFESSIONAL" and > > "RESPECTABLE" environment. Good work speaks for itself and cheerleading is > > fluff that is not required and actually is very distracting.. and > > unprofessional. Examples? Choose any large corporation - they get a slogan > > and stick to it, not contstantly go "rah, rah rah; we're the best". > > > > Americans are, in general, quite skeptical of anything that has too many > > adjectives describing the product. And for good reason, I might add. > > > > > Michael Willochell > > > Director, Customer Support > > > R:BASE Technologies, Inc. > > > > I also note you are with RBTI itself, not just a reader of the list. Do you > > think this may have influenced your viewpoint on the issue and allowed your > > personal feelings to get involved? > > > > In addition, as RBTI Customer Support Director I am somewhat shocked with > > your apparent attitude. Dealing with the public (or even co-workers!) in a > > software product environment is quite an undertaking and requires patience > > and the ability to overlook personality issues. I do customer support for > > my work and a client I have will get frustrated and curse - at the software > > and in my general direction. I consider him to be an "asshole" and will say > > so privately to others as I vent my own frustration; but as a professional, > > I do my job and don't let his personality effect my own performance. > > > > Professionals get the job done - regardless of personal feelings and without > > resorting to personal attacks. Dennis made a remark (and may have only been > > repeating someone else), not an attack. You are going a step further and > > making a personal attack on Dennis. Think about it. > > > > And think about this: Do you really think everyone has the same opinions > > about everyone else? About Razzak? Does it matter?? And if it DOES > > matter, is that being very professional?? > > > > Your response in your list post indicates you are letting your personal > > feelings drift into the list and that is counterproductive, the same thing > > you are accusing another of doing. > > > > I would hope you will reconsider your position, as a professional, and issue > > Dennis an apology (as Dennis has done) so we can drop all of this and move > > on as professionals. > > > > Regards, > > > > K R Brown > > Scott > ==== > Scott J. Salisbury > Matrix Data Systems / The R:Street Journal > 5114 Point Fosdick Drive NW, Suite E-272 > Gig Harbor, WA 98335-1733 > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.MatrixDataSystems.Com > http://www.SeaNet.Com/~sjs > Direct Line: 206-423-7679 > Toll Free: 888-386-5040 > Seattle: 206-448-7975 > Tacoma: 253-444-5166 > Fax: 305-425-0491 > > > ================================================ > TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES: > Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l > ================================================ > TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l > ================================================ > TO SEARCH ARCHIVES: > http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/ > ================================================ TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES: Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l ================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l ================================================ TO SEARCH ARCHIVES: http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/
