I agree with Scott and I think the term "customer service" has been give a whole new meaning. I'm usually just a lurker (although always a great supporter of R:base as I'm sure more than a few can attest), but this whole thread has really got my goat. Kyle.
At 11:37 AM 3/11/2002 -0800, you wrote: >This (text by Ken Brown) is very well written. >I wish I had written it. > >Dennis has apologized for his transgression(s) >and I object to his removal from the list. > >How many of us on this list have benefited >from Dennis McGrath's posts? A great >many, I'm sure. > >Quite frankly, the bottom line is, IMHO, >Dennis McGrath is knowledgeable and >helpful. His lack of presence on the list is a >loss to the R:BASE community. Dennis >McGrath's contributions to this list far >exceed his transgressions. > >We're all adults. Harsh language is not >appropriate on the list but I'm not going to >sit here and pretend that it in any way >offends me. I'm not condoning the use of >harsh language and I'm not condoning any >conduct that is abusive to any member of >the list. Having said that, I find it amusing >that there are those who will sit around and >pretend to be offended by such language >when it is convenient to do so. > >How far will Dennis and RBTI take this? >It's time to bury the hatchet guys. This type >of thing just doesn't do anyone any good. > >Scott >==== >Ken Brown wrote: > >> Re: Dennis >> >> > At this point, neither your attitude nor your presence is at >> > all productive or benevolent on this list, or with the R:BASE >> > community at large. >> >> That's a pretty large and sweeping statement. I also do not think it is >> true and resembles the remark of a scolding school teacher. Further, you >> are way out of line here, IMO. >> >> > Why don't you do us all a favor, and unsubscribe to this list, >> > and go on your way doing whatever it is that you do best. If >> > you are that unhappy with R:BASE or RBTI, there are other >> > products and options out there, and it would be in the best >> > interest of all for your to pursue these. >> >> And now you are *WAY* out of line. If you are speaking personally, that is >> one thing. If you are using your position with RBTI (evidently true by your >> sig line), then you are acting in a manner I hope you reconsider. If your >> statement above in any way reflects you in your position as Director, >> Custopmer Support then I am very concerned. I mention it only so that it is >> brought to the attention of yourself, your superiors and the list in >> general. If it is a potential problem (which it may not be), it should be >> addressed and remedied. Perhaps it is merely personal frustration and >> opinion? If so, a simple apology will suffice and we all move on. >> >> I also disagree with you. I wish to see Dennis remain and provide input. >> His experience with R:Base goes back many, many years. And your remark "do >> us all a favor" is pretty personal in nature, contrary to the specific goals >> of this list. In other words, a personal remark is a personal remark and >> uncalled for - a matter of quantity, not quality. Dennis quoted a remark, >> you are on an affirmative attack. In esence, you have made a "problem" >> worse. >> >> > All we at RBTI ask is that you leave your personal personal >> > conflicts out of the public view, and leave Razzak and us >> > alone to continue doing what we do best. >> >> Are you speaking for RBTI as a whole? Is it your position to do so? Is >> RBTI this list? Is it the final arbiter of all who may read this list? Are >> the goals of this list directly tied to RBTI? Am I wrong in thinking the >> goal of this list was to act as an information conduit for R:Base users? >> >> If it is a prerequistie to read this list that I be a rah-rah supporter of >> RBTI and act in a personal manner, then I shall unsubscribe and go to a more >> professional list. R:Street may be an option for me (Scott produced a FINE >> newsletter in the past) and I would hope all other professionals interested >> in R:Base and our industry as whole would also read R:Street. >> >> I use R:Base, I think it is a FINE tool for getting the job done. Ther >> personal issues of RBTI, etc. are of no interest to me. I have been reading >> (and participating in) newsgroups and lists for well over a decade.. almost >> two decades actually. I will not associate myself with an unprofessional >> group. >> >> Dennis had an email slip and It was an error; he apologized. So what? Drop >> it. Your insistance on bringing it up (and actually quoting it again so it >> is broadcast all over.. AGAIN) is counterproductive and does nothing to >> advance this list, or R:Base. IOW, pot, kettle, black. >> >> In addition, his remark was in quotes - it is unclear if he said it or is >> quoting someone else. And who cares? I am sure I am considered many things >> by many people, but I could care less - my work speaks for itself and I am >> an adult, as well as a professional. What people may, or may not, think of >> Razzak personally is not an issue, nor is it a prerequisite to using R:Base >> or reading the list. Or is it?? >> >> > And in case you >> > are unaware of exactly what it is that sets us apart, ask some >> > of the RESPECTABLE and PROFESSIONAL developers >> > how we work to provide them everything possible to meet >> > their needs. There are MANY members of this list who can >> > attest to this, and who can appreciate how we try to do >> > business. >> >> That wasn't an issue in any email I have seen - why bring it up? Are you >> being a wee bit defensive here?? Are you now dragging more of your personal >> issues with Dennis into the list?? I have been reading the list for years >> (way back to Harry Bass days) and it has never been an issue to my >> knowledge. In fact, I do believe Dennis contributed greatly to the overall >> R:Base tools development and as such should be held in high regard, right >> below such names as Wayne and Anne. Without the tools to make using R:Base >> a little easier, R:Base could quite easily fall to the side as being "too >> difficult" by some folks. Dennis has increased R:Base use, not decreased >> it. >> >> FYI and for a little bit of history, I started the first FTP site for R:Base >> materials on the "Internet" and spread the word on my own in newsgroups on >> Usenet. This was back when Microrim only had a BBS and there was no way for >> people to access that BBS without a long distance phone call. I >> re-published the public access R:Base info from the BBS (with approval) and >> made it more accessible to any user any where that could get to an FTP site. >> >> I mention the above to let you know I am a long-standing supporter of >> R:Base. I consider the product individually from the company itself. >> Always have, always will. And *even if* Wayne was a royal jerk and an ass >> (which he isn't, IMO), it wouldn't matter!! R:Base is a fine product. >> >> I am pleased you are proud of what you do and have great faith in your >> efforts - it is critical to success. However, taking things to a religious >> fervor is unnecessary and counterproductive in a "PROFESSIONAL" and >> "RESPECTABLE" environment. Good work speaks for itself and cheerleading is >> fluff that is not required and actually is very distracting.. and >> unprofessional. Examples? Choose any large corporation - they get a slogan >> and stick to it, not contstantly go "rah, rah rah; we're the best". >> >> Americans are, in general, quite skeptical of anything that has too many >> adjectives describing the product. And for good reason, I might add. >> >> > Michael Willochell >> > Director, Customer Support >> > R:BASE Technologies, Inc. >> >> I also note you are with RBTI itself, not just a reader of the list. Do you >> think this may have influenced your viewpoint on the issue and allowed your >> personal feelings to get involved? >> >> In addition, as RBTI Customer Support Director I am somewhat shocked with >> your apparent attitude. Dealing with the public (or even co-workers!) in a >> software product environment is quite an undertaking and requires patience >> and the ability to overlook personality issues. I do customer support for >> my work and a client I have will get frustrated and curse - at the software >> and in my general direction. I consider him to be an "asshole" and will say >> so privately to others as I vent my own frustration; but as a professional, >> I do my job and don't let his personality effect my own performance. >> >> Professionals get the job done - regardless of personal feelings and without >> resorting to personal attacks. Dennis made a remark (and may have only been >> repeating someone else), not an attack. You are going a step further and >> making a personal attack on Dennis. Think about it. >> >> And think about this: Do you really think everyone has the same opinions >> about everyone else? About Razzak? Does it matter?? And if it DOES >> matter, is that being very professional?? >> >> Your response in your list post indicates you are letting your personal >> feelings drift into the list and that is counterproductive, the same thing >> you are accusing another of doing. >> >> I would hope you will reconsider your position, as a professional, and issue >> Dennis an apology (as Dennis has done) so we can drop all of this and move >> on as professionals. >> >> Regards, >> >> K R Brown > >Scott >==== >Scott J. Salisbury >Matrix Data Systems / The R:Street Journal >5114 Point Fosdick Drive NW, Suite E-272 >Gig Harbor, WA 98335-1733 > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://www.MatrixDataSystems.Com >http://www.SeaNet.Com/~sjs >Direct Line: 206-423-7679 >Toll Free: 888-386-5040 >Seattle: 206-448-7975 >Tacoma: 253-444-5166 >Fax: 305-425-0491 > > >================================================ >TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES: >Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l >================================================ >TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l >================================================ >TO SEARCH ARCHIVES: >http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/ > Kyle L. Stunkel Facilities Management Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville [EMAIL PROTECTED] ================================================ TO SEE MESSAGE POSTING GUIDELINES: Send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the message body, put just two words: INTRO rbase-l ================================================ TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send a plain text email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the message body, put just two words: UNSUBSCRIBE rbase-l ================================================ TO SEARCH ARCHIVES: http://www.mail-archive.com/rbase-l%40sonetmail.com/
