Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
> Hi erland <erland.4w6n8n1309500242 (AT) no-mx (DOT)
> forums.slimdevices.com>,
>
> >To me it has always felt like there should only be two artist roles:
> >- Main artist of the album (I guess this is the album artist role)
> >- Extra artists on individual tracks of the album (I guess this is
> the
> >artist or track artist role)
> >
> I would correct you slightly there:
> - Album Artist(s) - Main artist(s) of the album (there can be more than
> one).
> - Track Artist(s) - All of the artists that perform on each song.
>
> Track artists are not extra ones - i.e. an Album Artist doesn't
> necessarily appear on every song of the album.
> Sometimes Album Artist covers the case when a guest artist duets on a
> single track, and you could regard in that case that the track artist
> is extra to the album artist. But often a track has a different artist
> to the album artist, and can't be considered an extra (i.e. should not
> report the album artist as a performing artist on the song).
> An example is where someone labels an album with
> AlbumArtist=Soundtrack. That doesn't mean every song is performed by
> Soundtrack.
>
Bad phrasing on my part, I completely agree with your phrasing.
Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
>
>
> >would make the browsing code a lot simpler since it guarantees that
> all
> >albums have an artist and all tracks have an artist.
> >
> That's not true either. Albums can have no artists, and tracks can
> have no artists too.
>
Yes, but aren't these represented by a generated "No Artist" entry ?
Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
>
>
> >I think the albums.contributor column already works as "Main artists"
> >described above but for some reason it's not used when generating the
> >list of artists today, probably because we besides the main artist
> also
> >have composer and conductors what are of interest to include in the
> >artists list.
> Also because there can be more than one album artist name to report
> against the album label. When there are several for one album, one is
> arbitrarily selected as the albums.contributor, and then used for
> sorting and placement within the alpha-bar.
>
Is this special case supported by tagging standards and/or any other
software beside SBS ?
I realize it can exist, I'm just wondering if the tagging standards and
other applications really support it. If it doesn't it feels like SBS
maybe shouldn't try to support it since it relies on tags for its
persistent storage.
I guess it depends on the intention of the album artist:
- Is it a single name to be able to sort albums in a consistent way
or
- Is it an indication of the main contributors of an album
If it's the latter and its supported by tagging standards and other
applications, it needs to be supported, if not, it can be dropped
IMHO.
Sorting based on something that's arbitrarily selected doesn't feel
good to me.
Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
>
>
> >By changing the roles as above, the browsing code only needs to
> decide
> >if it should show "Main artists" or "Extra artists on individual
> >tracks".
> >
> It needs to display "All Artists" or "exclude guest artists". In
> addition (with current mode of operation), the user can choose to
> include Band/Orchestra, Composer and Conductor roles.
>
I'm not sure I like the phrasing "Exclude guest artists" because it
should exclude all ARTIST tags on a compilation album and I'm not sure
these can be considered guest artists. But I agree that my phrasing
"Extra artists on individual tracks" isn't good .
Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
>
> Do these other contributor roles exist in both contributor_album and
> contributor_track link tables? Are there cases when say a composer is
> only in the track contributors and not in album contributors (eg. a
> composer tag on only one track of an album, so the composer would not
> appear in albums list if "exclude guest artists" is chosen?
>
I believe every role is in both, in 7.5 contributor_albums were
generated in schema_optimize.sql through the following SQL statements:
Code:
--------------------
DELETE FROM contributor_album;
INSERT INTO contributor_album (role,contributor,album) SELECT DISTINCT
role,contributor,album FROM contributor_track,tracks where
tracks.id=contributor_track.track;
--------------------
In 7.6 it's maintained manually to be consistent since the 7.6 scanner
should be able to remove artists no longer use when doing a new/changed
rescan. But I'm guessing the tables still contains the same data.
Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
>
>
> >Today there are special cases in some places of the browsing code.
> When
> >selecting to group compilation albums, the artists menu today
> contains
> >artists with role "ALBUMARTIST" or "ARTIST" except those with
> >compilation=0.
> >
> Is that right? I think you mean it ignores artists that are only on
> compilations, so it would be looking where compilation <> 1 (includes
> compilation=0 and compilation is null). I think compilation=0 is an
> abnorml case - most of the time compilation=1 (if the album has been
> set or detected as a compilation) or compilation = null.
>
You shouldn't interpret me so strict :-)
I meant: (compilation=0 or compilation is null)
Philip Meyer;638783 Wrote:
>
>
> >With the above change, it could just list "Main artists". And if you
> >have selected to show compilation under each individual album, it
> could
> >just list "Extra artists on individual tracks".
> >
> Does the option care if it is a compilation or not? i.e. I think it
> should ignore any artist that only appears on tracks, and not on
> albums. i.e. where an album artist has been set, that can hide track
> artists are guest performers.
>
> This is where the current system gets a bit weird with compilation
> setting defining whether an artist on a track is an artist or a track
> artist. Whereas I think it should be whether the album has an album
> artist or not, to be more consistent.
>
Yes, I completely agree, and the reason that's not possible today is
because we have the three contributor roles.
I think the issue is that ARTIST tags on a COMPILATION=1 album turns
into artists(role=1) while artists on a auto detected compilation album
turns into track artists(role=6).
Would be better if the "Artists" menu could ignore the compilation
setting and just focus on which roles to show, but to do that we need
to get rid of one of the roles as described above.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
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