Re: Stus-List A-4
Thanks Danny, and that was my suggestion to them as well. Am hoping to offer them something in lieu of east coast! randy Tamanawas 29-II Hood River, OR From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Danny Haughey via CnC-List Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 8:31 AM To: randy via CnC-List Cc: Danny Haughey Subject: Re: Stus-List A-4 Hi Randy, the engine has some value. Without knowing it's condition, you could probably get a few hundred for it from someone wanting a spare and the motivation to rebuild it. I'm sure Moyer marine would love to have it but they'd probably not offer much more than to pay for shipping to take it off your hands. You could head over the Moyer marine forums and get better info from that group. http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/index.php Danny On 11/13/2017 10:59 AM, randy via CnC-List wrote: Greetings All, a friend is settling a family estate of a sailor. Friend and family know nothing about sailboats. Boat has an older Yanmar 2GM installed sometime in last seven years, and the original A-4 is at the house. From outside it is in much better condition than expected, but no one has any idea of inside. Any suggestions on value and/or getting the word out? Motor is located in Portland, OR, and neither Portland or Seattle craigslist have much to offer. TIA, randy Tamanawas 29-II Hood River, OR ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Stus-List A-4
Greetings All, a friend is settling a family estate of a sailor. Friend and family know nothing about sailboats. Boat has an older Yanmar 2GM installed sometime in last seven years, and the original A-4 is at the house. From outside it is in much better condition than expected, but no one has any idea of inside. Any suggestions on value and/or getting the word out? Motor is located in Portland, OR, and neither Portland or Seattle craigslist have much to offer. TIA, randy Tamanawas 29-II Hood River, OR ___ Thanks everyone for supporting this list with your contributions. Each and every one is greatly appreciated. If you want to support the list - use PayPal to send contribution -- https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
Re: Stus-List Landfall for sale
Joe what do you mean by "'falling knife' investment"? Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Joe via CnC-List Della Barba" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Joe Della Barba" Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 9:01:36 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Landfall for sale The boat was in horrible shape about 6-8 years ago and probably has not improved. I doubt you would do well even if you got her for free. Speaking of boat values, pretty much any older boat now is a “falling knife” investment. If anyone does still want old boats, no reason to get a half or 3/4s dead one. Joe Della Barba Coquina C&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of detroito91 via CnC-List Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:51 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: detroito91 Subject: Re: Stus-List Landfall for sale At $ 10,000.00. Something has got to be in real bad shape! (I hope) Jim 38 lf Washington nc Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: Frederick G Street via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Date: 8/15/17 10:08 AM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Frederick G Street < f...@postaudio.net > Subject: Re: Stus-List Landfall for sale “Wow” is right — there go the property values in the neighborhood… :^( — Fred Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI On Aug 15, 2017, at 8:40 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: WOW! Don't know the boat, but could be a bargain. https://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/d/cc-landfall/6264221307.html -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Boat operating manual
I have a set of checklists for Grenadine. In fact I just updated it yesterday so my crew can race her next week in my absence. I keep a laminated printout of it on board. My document is not as thorough as yours, largely because Grenadine doesn't have as many systems as Touche (refrigeration, navigation, inverter, etc.) but the basics are pretty similar. I've appended Grenadine's checklists below. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO Grenadine Checklists Opening the Boat: * unlock and unlatch companionway and lazarets; put padlocks back * remove companionway hatch boards and stow below on port-side shelf * open forward hatch to air out boat * ensure vanity sink drain seacock is closed (it should be) * turn battery switch to all * manually pump bilge (handle in starboard lazaret) Preparing to Sail: * select a headsail: drifter<10mph, #2 genoa 10-20mph, #3 genoa >20mph * rig the headsail: shackle the tack, attach the halyard, tie & lead sheets * uncover & rig mainsail (attach halyard, unpile sheet & traveler lines) * get out winch handles (port lazaret, tupperware on shelf) * uncover tiller * stow loose items in cabin, put coolers & bags on floor * close forward hatch Starting the Engine: * open raw water intake seacock (in starboard lazaret, on hull, blue handle) * open fuel supply petcock (in starboard lazaret, above tank starboard forward corner) * run blower 5 minutes * pull out choke * pull out ignition * press starter button * push choke in as she warms up Getting Underway: * cast off all (four) dock lines * back her out of the slip. Look for traffic, anticipate what the wind will do to her. * while backing, the bow will move whichever way you point the tiller. * when clear of the slip, shift to forward and drive her out of the marina. * untie fenders & stow in port lazaret * close lifeline gate Setting Sail: * loosen mainsheet, outhaul, cunningham, reef lines * untie & raise mainsail * trim / tidy lines * shut off engine (push in ignition & blower) * leave shift lever in forward gear * untie & raise headsail, trim sheets Dousing Sails: * start engine per above checklist * drive into wind * douse headsail & tie down * douse mainsail, flake & tie down Docking: * hang fenders: two large ones to starboard; two small ones to port * open lifeline gate * drive her into the slip. Anticipate what the wind will do to her while docking. * crew step onto dock and pull / hold boat, cleat dock lines Putting the boat away: On Deck: * flake, bag & stow headsail * coil & stow sheets * shackle headsail halyard to flag halyard cleat on starboard lower shroud * shackle main halyard to stern pulpit brace on starboard side * flake, tie, & cover mainsail * cover tiller * put away winch handles (port lazaret, tupperware on shelf) * coil & hang, or flemish, all lines Below: * close & latch forward hatch * ensure head is flushed and empty * ensure vanity sink drain seacock is closed (it should be) * switch off all circuits at panel * turn battery switch to off * close raw water intake seacock * close fuel supply petcock * lock companionway & lazarets * close lifeline gate ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Wikipedia. featuring a few different C&C models
That is a beautiful boat, Ken. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Ken Heaton via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Ken Heaton" Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 5:30:16 PM Subject: Stus-List Wikipedia. featuring a few different C&C models For my fellow C&C 37/40 owners and other list members, I recently noticed someone put several articles on Wikipedia, featuring a few different C&C models. I thought is was time I added one for the C&C 37/40 series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%26C_37/40 Have a look and let me know what I may have missed. Thank you, / / (\ \ . / ) (\ \ (\ \ \ . (\ / ) / /) / Ken Heaton & Anne Tobin S/V Salazar - Can 54955 C&C 37/40 XL - Hull # 67 Cape Breton Island, Nova Scotia ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List 73 30 MK1 Bilge Pump
Steve my 1972 C&C 30 MK I (hull #7) has a deep sump under the mast step. Yours probably does too, and that's probably where the pump is. Hate to break it to you but the only way to access it is to pull the mast up (or out) and remove the mast step. For detail and pictures etc. have a look at the "bilge plumbing" section on page 26 of this document: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM . Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Steven A. Demore via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Steven A. Demore" Sent: Tuesday, August 1, 2017 6:08:04 PM Subject: Stus-List 73 30 MK1 Bilge Pump While we’re having so many conversations on bilge pumps, I have another question for you. I picked up a project ’73 30’ MK 1. There is a float switch in the bilge, right under the forward access hole. There are wires leading forward through the bilge toward the mast, as well as a hose that leads out of the bilge, around the head, up the wall by the holding tank, and out through a drain at the top of the hull (I had assumed it to be a vent previously). I have reached up through the bilge as far as I can, put a camera in there and took some pictures, used a mirror and flashlight, everything I could think of (I don’t have a borescope), but I can’t find the pump or the end of the hose/wires. Does anybody know how to access the pump and whether it is screwed down? It almost has to be forward of the mast, but I can’t reach it. I don’t want to pull too hard on the hose, but I need to find the pump and see what kind of shape it is in. Any ideas? Thanks, Steve ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Bilge Pump Wiring (Cont...)
Scratching my head. Presumably the point of the second battery switch is to switch some circuit(s) open or closed. But to me it's weird. I'd generally expect the switching to be on the hot side of the circuits, and all grounding to be (unswitched) to the engine block and therefore the prop shaft. (Not that I'm all that experienced with boat electrical systems). Where does the black cable off the "common" stud of that second battery switch run to? Regarding the #1 battery, an easy test to isolate battery fault versus other faults would be to connect it to a known good charger (only). If it won't charge up or hold a charge, it's the battery. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Chris Hobson via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Chris Hobson" Sent: Monday, July 31, 2017 11:44:42 PM Subject: Stus-List Bilge Pump Wiring (Cont...) Thanks for all the feedback regarding the bilge re-wire on my 30-1, very helpful advice really appreciate it. I’m now going down the rabbit-hole of electrical and figured I’d post a few photos because maybe something is glaringly obvious with my current setup and one of you can point it out. I discovered a secondary battery switch today for all the negative battery terminals from my #2 house battery under the galley cupboard, not sure how common it is to have two main battery switches like this. Also found out, as I accidentally left the main battery switch on #1 battery the other night from too much vino, it’s still dead and hasn’t recharged even though I’m connected to shore power (albeit a sketchy shore power hookup) to my True-charge battery charger. Could be one of two things: battery #1 is toast might remove and do a load test, or try to find if there’s a power draw somewhere down the line that surpasses the 10amp charger. Surveyor thinks it’s a badly hardwired autopilot and noted curious oxide on the prop, but I don’t know enough about bad wiring. So anyway here are some photos of my current setup: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_lwczpvPcEHd3R5NXVlNC1tRkE?usp=sharing Photo #1: Cabin main switches - lights illuminated from lazarette being open. Photo #2: New battery switch discovered under galley counter port-side for negative terminals. Photo #3: Truecharge 10amp Battery Charger hooked up to shore power. Neg and Pos go to battery #2 and a third Pos wire goes to battery #1. Photo #4: Truecharge wiring on batteries. Photo #5: Wide shot of negative terminals(below) going in port-side cupboard under galley counter to main battery switch #2, Pos terminals going to main Cabin for battery switch #1. The way I see it I have three options: A: Call a marine electrician - I did this morning and he’s booked till September figured I may as well just keep up the detective work B: Something is glaringly obvious about this setup and one of you points it out C: Keep digging Chris Hobson S/V Going C&C 30-1 #615 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Wiring Bilge Direct to Battery
Hi Chris, I just did that this year. It's straightforward. You just have to have all the supplies and tools. On my 30-1 the three-way switches for the bilge pumps (I have two) are mounted under the galley sink, through the plywood separating the starboard lazaret from the space under the galley sink. If you mount your switch there, you'll need a drill and jigsaw to cut a hole for the switch. Then you'll need some ring terminals matching the size of your battery's studs and the size of your wire. If the wiring on your switch and pump is 16-gauge like mine, it's easiest to get bulk 16-gauge wire in red and black. You'll need some 16-gauge butt connectors to connect the wires on the back of the switch to the wires on the pump and to the wire run over to the battery. And you'll need a wire cutter, wire stripper, and a crimping tool. In my case since I have two batteries and two pumps, I mounted terminal strips enclosed in junction boxes to the plywood near the batteries (port side), and near the switches (starboard side). I connected the positive studs of both batteries to one terminal strip, and the negative studs to the other. Then I did one run of red and black over to the terminal strips on the starboard side where the pump switch leads connected. And of course you'll want some cable clamps to run the wires neatly and keep them in place. You can get all the stuff you need at West Marine, though the tools are probably less expensive elsewhere. I think I bought my crimper at Harbor Freight. And a good reference on boat electrical systems is https://www.amazon.com/Caseys-Complete-Illustrated-Sailboat-Maintenance/dp/0071462848 - I recommend it. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Chris Hobson via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Chris Hobson" Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 11:23:32 AM Subject: Stus-List Wiring Bilge Direct to Battery Need to wire the bilge pump direct to the battery and bypass the distribution panel. Currently have to turn battery on for it to work. Simple enough, just not something I've done before. Has anyone wired this or know how to install a switch (3-way) to do so? No I'm not an electrician and yes I'm aware of the consequences of electricity. Chris Hobson s/v Going 1980 C&C 30 MK1 Hull #615 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List so, who's gonna step up?
http://sailinganarchy.com/2017/07/29/breaking-the-mold/ ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C&C 30 boomvang issue
For what it's worth, my Garhauer rigid vang (not hydraulic) on my 30-1 fastens to the mast and boom with screws - six or eight screws per base plate. I had to use very specific sizes of drill bits and thread taps matching the fat deep-threaded screws Garhauer sent me. It's a solid installation and has withstood gusts nearing 40 knots multiple times these last two years. Is tapping and screwing an option for fastening your vang? Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 10:02:02 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 boomvang issue I'm guessing they were aluminum rivets. "Every high load" rivet I installed in a mast was stainless coated with TefGel. However, to install larger stainless rivets, you need a BIG rivet tool like a Marson Big Daddy. They run about $150. If it were me, I'd punch out the old rivets and reinstall with stainless. Is there a rental shop around where you can rent a Big Daddy? Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Bill Nickel via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: During my recent "race" in the Lake Ontario 300 (actually the shorter scotch bonnet race) my hydraulic boom bang broke off at the base of the mast. The rivets appear to have sheared off. I have the local boat repair company taking a look, but t I am curious if anyone has suggestions? Bill Nickel "adagio" 1977 C&C 30 mk 1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Original Rig, (was US Watercraft receivership)
Grenadine's rig and deck hardware is all-original, old-school. No furler, lazy jacks, self-tailing winches, rope clutches. My crew has to grind and tail and cleat to horn cleats, and flake sails manually. For two years they didn't know any better because they're newbies :) But one of them jumped on a shorthanded competitor's boat the other week and came back jealous of his furler and self-tailing winches. In defense I had to explain how much it would cost to upgrade :) I'd rather spend the money on new sails. While I can appreciate the merits of all those conveniences especially for leisure sailing, for racing I like being able to make a last-minute headsail choice right before leaving the dock, or even changing the headsail on the fly. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Chuck Borge via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Chuck Borge" Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 4:54:13 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Original Rig, (was US Watercraft receivership) Years of racing J24s, J30s & Etchells, never thought I'd have a furler. Now a little older, wiser and sporting a Stackpack too. Not the fastest setup, but still finding a way to win club races. And my wife and I can be off the mooring and sailing in minutes. Put-away is just as quick. I am sure we use our boat many times more than those around us just because it is so easy. No sail- folding arguments either! Enjoy! Chuck B C&C 34 Elusive Sent from my iPhone On Jul 25, 2017, at 6:17 PM, robert via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Bill You will never regret putting a furler on your boat. Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - 84 Halifax,N.S. On 2017-07-25 6:00 PM, Bill Dakin via CnC-List wrote: Tapestry is all original from '81, no 'conveniences' of furler, self tailers, clutches, or any modern rigging. It's kind of interesting being the throwback to older times among all the jazz on my dock. Alas, I asked our rigger to quote a Schaefer furler last week. Bill Dakin S/V Tapestry, '81 25 MKII ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List US Watercraft receivership
So this is the company that owns the C&C name and builds the new C&C 30 one-design racing sled with open transom and bulb keel? Going into receivership? Sad. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Don Harben via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Don Harben" Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 9:21:37 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List US Watercraft receivership Hmmm I asked a friend how many times C&C might have repeated this: He says ... "Let me try 1. First it was that airline guy 2. North South charter guy 3. Hong Kong guy 4 Tartan Yachts guy 5. Now US Watercraft. That's 5! Must be a record in the industry!" Don Don Harben Viking 34 Life www.ncyc.ca > On Jul 24, 2017, at 11:05 PM, rjcasciato--- via CnC-List > wrote: > > Dennis..it's the old adage..if you don't learn from historyyou're > destined to repeat it. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Voltages
Well, if I learned an expensive lesson, I'll just have to accept that. I checked all the cells before putting the charger on them, and they were full. After charging they are still full (even though I heard the liquid bubbling i.e. creating and venting gas toward the end of the charging period). The one battery I put back on the boat yesterday was able to start my A4 and run my electrical stuff no problem, just like normal before all this. I'll take the other down to the boat tomorrow and measure its voltage with my multimeter- it will have been at rest, disconnected, for 24+ hours by then. But I know there is a difference between instantaneous voltage and amp-hour capacity. These are deep-cycle batteries, and I cycled them very deeply :) I'll just have to monitor the situation for the rest of the season and see how bad my mistakes are going to hurt :) Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Fred Hazzard via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Fred Hazzard" Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:27:38 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Voltages I can tell you from personal experience that AGMs won't servive either. I had 4 hooked in parallel that I flattened to 4.5 v . A painful experience. At the same time I lost my inverter charger. Fred Hazzard S/V Fury C&C 44 Portland, Or On Jul 20, 2017 12:34 PM, "Bill Bina - gmail via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if those voltages of 4.7 volts and 5.7 volts were correct, they mean these batteries have been quite severely damaged and will never have anywhere near full capacity again. That is not a maybe. You can get many batteries like that to take a surface charge and appear okay with a voltage reading that looks somewhat normal. There is no muscle behind it. The charger is telling you they are 100% charged to their new and very diminished capacity. Some of the cells may also have run dry. This was not survivable for any flooded battery regardless of quality, or how it was treated otherwise. Bill Bina On 7/20/2017 10:10 AM, RANDY via CnC-List wrote: An update on this. Monday morning I brought my batteries home (I've got two of these: https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Maxx-Marine-Battery-Group-Size-29DC/20531539 dated May/June 2014 with relatively light use and constantly maintained by a 3amp solar charger). And I bought this inexpensive charging unit: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher-Electric-15-Amp-Battery-Charger/46167057 . One battery measured 4.7v before charging, and the other 5.7v, according to the charger's test function. Each battery was on the charger for about 33 hours to charge back up to 13.2v / 13.5v and 100% charge according to the charger. I haven't measured their voltage independently after charging with a multi-meter, but I did that at the start of the season and they were healthy. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Voltages
An update on this. Monday morning I brought my batteries home (I've got two of these: https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Maxx-Marine-Battery-Group-Size-29DC/20531539 dated May/June 2014 with relatively light use and constantly maintained by a 3amp solar charger). And I bought this inexpensive charging unit: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher-Electric-15-Amp-Battery-Charger/46167057 . One battery measured 4.7v before charging, and the other 5.7v, according to the charger's test function. Each battery was on the charger for about 33 hours to charge back up to 13.2v / 13.5v and 100% charge according to the charger. I haven't measured their voltage independently after charging with a multi-meter, but I did that at the start of the season and they were healthy. Put one of 'em back in the boat last night and connected it up, and my solar charge controller indicated it was charging, which was good. Before, the batteries had gotten so depleted that the charge controller wasn't indicating it was charging them. Now the only thing I haven't done is test the voltage coming off the alternator and regulator of my Atomic 4 to see if those components are working correctly. But I run the engine so little - a couple of ten-minute bursts per week - that I'm not sure how much charging it would contribute even if the alternator and regulator are working perfectly. Chalk it up to negligence - I forgot to manually pump the bilge when I knew it had ice box drainage and rain water in it, and I forgot to turn off the main battery switch when leaving the boat one day. A few lessons learned in this episode, and I don't really know how much life I took out of the batteries by depleting them so badly. I'll be checking my batteries' charge levels with a multi-meter regularly now, as I don't have any kind of battery monitors (but here's a good article on them: http://www.pkys.com/Amp_Hour_Meters.htm ). Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "RANDY via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "RANDY" Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 7:12:11 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Voltages I may have a similar issue. Went out for sail with guests today and discovered my batteries were dead. Couldn't even light the florescent light over the dinette, let alone start the engine. So, left and returned to dock under sail power. Last Wednesday night, no problems with the electrical system. I think the main battery switch may have been left on, running the depth meter and stereo display for three plus days. It's also possible I had a bilge pump cycling. My charge controller was indicating no charging of the batteries from the solar panel. I don't know if that's a byproduct of dead batteries, or an issue with the charge controller or solar panel. I'm thinking I should pull the batteries out of the boat, bring them home, and charge them, then put them back in the boat and see if the solar charging starts working again, and if the batteries drain again (with the main switch off and no water in the bilge this time). I have a multi-meter and know how to use it and can diagnose the system from first principles if necessary. The batteries were new in 2014 and are very clean and have the correct amount of water in them. And the solar charging system has worked flawlessly to date, though its capacity is small. Any suggestions? Especially on what kind of charger to use to charge the batteries? Thanks, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 6:14:22 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Voltages I agree with Jim's recommendations. If you do take them somewhere for testing and they tell you anything less than an hour to test, go somewhere else. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Tom, battery voltage should be tested after resting for an hour or more after charging. Your charging voltage sounds about in the right range, but you are measuring the voltage coming out of the charging source, not the battery. 13.2 V is about minimum voltage to overcome internal resistance and actually charge the battery. A healthy charged battery will test at around 12.65+ after resting for 12 hours. Each battery will have to be checked individually, so they should not be interconnected for that. Just remove the black wire for testing, you don't have to totally strip them. In addition, get a good battery hydrometer and check each cell for the right specific gravity. My battery guys recommend the EZ Red unit, and I agree. ( http://www.ezred.com/product/batt
Stus-List Powerboaters Destroying Race Marks
As long as we're bitching about powerboaters, I'll just chime in that Colorado Sail & Yacht Club has had three of our racing marks shattered already this year in what I can only assume were high-speed impacts by negligent or malicious (i.e. asshole) powerboaters. We use 55-gallon plastic drums filled with swimming noodles so they stay afloat when the assholes hit them. I've asked the State Park if we can use 55-gallon metal drums so they hole the assholes' boats on impact, but the State Park won't let us. Costs us about $75 and a whole bunch of time every time we have to remove and replace one. Frickin' pisses me off. Your average powerboat operator is a frickin' idiot. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO Commodore, Colorado Sail & Yacht Club ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Voltages
I may have a similar issue. Went out for sail with guests today and discovered my batteries were dead. Couldn't even light the florescent light over the dinette, let alone start the engine. So, left and returned to dock under sail power. Last Wednesday night, no problems with the electrical system. I think the main battery switch may have been left on, running the depth meter and stereo display for three plus days. It's also possible I had a bilge pump cycling. My charge controller was indicating no charging of the batteries from the solar panel. I don't know if that's a byproduct of dead batteries, or an issue with the charge controller or solar panel. I'm thinking I should pull the batteries out of the boat, bring them home, and charge them, then put them back in the boat and see if the solar charging starts working again, and if the batteries drain again (with the main switch off and no water in the bilge this time). I have a multi-meter and know how to use it and can diagnose the system from first principles if necessary. The batteries were new in 2014 and are very clean and have the correct amount of water in them. And the solar charging system has worked flawlessly to date, though its capacity is small. Any suggestions? Especially on what kind of charger to use to charge the batteries? Thanks, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2017 6:14:22 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Voltages I agree with Jim's recommendations. If you do take them somewhere for testing and they tell you anything less than an hour to test, go somewhere else. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Jim Watts via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Tom, battery voltage should be tested after resting for an hour or more after charging. Your charging voltage sounds about in the right range, but you are measuring the voltage coming out of the charging source, not the battery. 13.2 V is about minimum voltage to overcome internal resistance and actually charge the battery. A healthy charged battery will test at around 12.65+ after resting for 12 hours. Each battery will have to be checked individually, so they should not be interconnected for that. Just remove the black wire for testing, you don't have to totally strip them. In addition, get a good battery hydrometer and check each cell for the right specific gravity. My battery guys recommend the EZ Red unit, and I agree. ( http://www.ezred.com/product/battery-hydrometer/ ) I had THREE cheap hydrometers give me similar readings that were nowhere near reality, and that cost me a couple of weeks of anxiety while cruising, and a lot of work taking the three Group 31's out and having them tested for real with a pro analyzer, then reinstalling them. West Marine stores generally have a load-testing type of analyzer if you drag the batteries in to the store, but I'd advise taking them to a real battery shop if you're going to that amount of labour. Good luck. Jim Watts Paradigm Shift C&C 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 16 July 2017 at 15:37, Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: I stressed out m house bank pretty bad by leaving the frig on and the D.C. On, but the shore power, and this the charger, came lose on the boat due t my sloppy connecting. It was discovered after 3 days or so. I am concerned that the batteries may be damaged beyond use...just like the set of house batteries these replaced, after two full days at anchor with the frig runningh. Very lagged with them all still wired into the boat are around 12.5. 13.2 when the engine is running and 13.7 with the charger on. Some questions for the list's cumulative wisdom... Do I need to disconnect the battery to accurately assess its health? Are these voltages in an appropriate rage? thx Tom Buscaglia S/V Alera 1990 C&C 37+/40 Vashon WA P 206.463.9200 C 305.409.3660 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 General Questions
Steve- I put a bunch of pictures of my starboard settee, including with measurements of the plywood piece, at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTRmlMT2g0anYwTHM . Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "RANDY via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "RANDY" Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 7:41:34 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 General Questions My 1972 30 MK I (hull #7) has the same metal brackets, which go through slots in a piece of plywood that slides inboard to make a wider berth. The plywood piece has a piece of trim along the inboard edge that acts as a fiddle to hold the cushion in place. I'll try to remember to snap a couple pictures tomorrow night to post for you. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Joseph Bognar via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Joseph Bognar" Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 7:13:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 General Questions I would replace the water tank and not take any chances with it . Some photos of your sette would help also. My 30 is of the 1979 vintage . I have an extra piece of plywood on top of the sette . It slides between the metal brackets and pulls out to make the bed a bit bigger to lay on . Sent from Joe Bognar On Jul 11, 2017, at 7:59 PM, Steven A. Demore via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Need some help/advice from some more experienced C&C people. I am rebuilding a ’73 30 MK1 project boat, that was started a few years ago by another person and abandoned along the way. I am focused on the settee area right now. First, I think I can get the mold cleaned out of the water tank, but it looks like there are some fine cracks in the bottom. Is there something that I can do to seal it up (paint, liner, ?) that would be safe for potable water? Second, the settee itself has a couple of metal brackets on the top that would keep cushions from sitting flat. Can somebody tell me how the settee goes together, i.e. is there a board on top or something? A picture might be helpful as well, since I am going to have to build whatever goes in there. I’m sure that I’ll have a lot more questions as this project commences, so thanks in advance! Steve SV Doin’ It Right 1973 C&C 30 MK1 Pasadena, MD ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 General Questions
My 1972 30 MK I (hull #7) has the same metal brackets, which go through slots in a piece of plywood that slides inboard to make a wider berth. The plywood piece has a piece of trim along the inboard edge that acts as a fiddle to hold the cushion in place. I'll try to remember to snap a couple pictures tomorrow night to post for you. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Joseph Bognar via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Joseph Bognar" Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 7:13:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 General Questions I would replace the water tank and not take any chances with it . Some photos of your sette would help also. My 30 is of the 1979 vintage . I have an extra piece of plywood on top of the sette . It slides between the metal brackets and pulls out to make the bed a bit bigger to lay on . Sent from Joe Bognar On Jul 11, 2017, at 7:59 PM, Steven A. Demore via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Need some help/advice from some more experienced C&C people. I am rebuilding a ’73 30 MK1 project boat, that was started a few years ago by another person and abandoned along the way. I am focused on the settee area right now. First, I think I can get the mold cleaned out of the water tank, but it looks like there are some fine cracks in the bottom. Is there something that I can do to seal it up (paint, liner, ?) that would be safe for potable water? Second, the settee itself has a couple of metal brackets on the top that would keep cushions from sitting flat. Can somebody tell me how the settee goes together, i.e. is there a board on top or something? A picture might be helpful as well, since I am going to have to build whatever goes in there. I’m sure that I’ll have a lot more questions as this project commences, so thanks in advance! Steve SV Doin’ It Right 1973 C&C 30 MK1 Pasadena, MD ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Night Racing Photos
Listers- Colorado Sail & Yacht Club held its annual Fugawi night race Saturday night in the full moon. In case you're interested I added two photos to the end of https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTVnJfSm9lRnZNa1E . One shows the raft-up beforehand from a drone's perspective; Grenadine is third from right, with the tallest mast. In the other one, someone captured Grenadine's spinnaker casting a moon shadow, which was kind of a cool shot. It's a bit blurry, but that's how I was seeing things at the time, too - lots of Captain Randy's Famous Rum Punch consumed :) Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List 25MKII, Tiller Length
That's how we do it on Grenadine. I drive with my knees touching the bridge deck and the tiller behind my back, and the trimmers sit behind me. Gives everybody the most room and vision. And I have a tiller extension for when we need my meat on the rail too. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30 MK I hull #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "David Kaseler via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "David Kaseler" Sent: Monday, July 10, 2017 2:46:54 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List 25MKII, Tiller Length Hi. Good plan. My guess is the Anytiller guys know the original specks. Did you ask? We, on our 33 mark 1 bought a longer stock tiller (from West Marine I think) so the skipper could sit up against the bulkhead. Works really good, especially in racing situations. Crew working lines behind the skipper gives skipper a clear view during maneuvering situations. Dave Kaseler SLY 1975 C&C 33 Sent from my iPad On Jul 10, 2017, at 9:49 AM, Bill Dakin via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 25MKII owners, what is your tiller length and shape http://anytiller.com/ I'm going to refit our Edson pedestal with the original tiller. Bill Dakin S/V Tapestry ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C&C 40 question
Hi Ron, Just out of curiosity, do you have to take a PHRF adjustment for that? The PHRF rules in my RSA say “The Base PHRF Rating will assume: … The yacht is as manufactured with its interior as designed by the manufacturer intact.” Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "rjcasciato via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "rjcasciato" Sent: Friday, July 7, 2017 10:53:33 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 40 question Danny, Absolutely serious..Impromptu will be 40 years old in September I'm the 4th owner and completely refinished the interior in 1998 when I purchased the boat. I ain't doing that again My wife doesn't do sun, wind, or noiseso my long-standing crew of 30 years and I campaign the boat in the PHRF races around Boston. And I try to remove something wooden each year. The list of improvements over 20 years is substantial. If the bathfitter project is doable. I'll consider replacing the wood bulkhead with high strength laminate foam sheets.structurally compatible as a bulkhead.half the weight.. But it's racing season and we're doing well so maybe next year. Ron Impromptu C&C 38 MK II #125 1977 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Drone Video
Here finally is that edited drone video of Colorado Sail & Yacht Club's spring series race #5 on Wednesday May 31st: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBFDcQ2k2H0 Obviously it was a light air night. Flags dropped for my fleet at 2:30 into the video. Grenadine is the boat with the red hull. Like a Tour de France breakaway that gets caught by the peloton in sight of the finish line, we led the fleet for all but the last few seconds of the race, when RC shortened course making a downwind finish, and the fleet got a lucky breeze from behind which allowed them to catch us. Boat-for-boat we crossed the line second by a hair, but almost everyone corrected over me. Oh well, I'd rather lose because of bad luck than my own errors (which happen enough :) Nice night and nice video, though. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "svpegasus38 via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "svpegasus38" Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2017 6:25:55 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Drone Video Very nice. Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Doug Mountjoy POYC Pegasus Lf38 Significant Other LF39 Original message From: Josh Muckley via CnC-List Date: 7/1/17 16:55 (GMT-08:00) To: C&C List Cc: Josh Muckley Subject: Re: Stus-List Drone Video The pilot got around to sending me the full length video in ultra high resolution. I added music and trimmed the beginning and end. Pretty cool. https://youtu.be/uNgjeeNMBVA Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Jul 1, 2017 7:37 PM, "Gary Russell via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: What a nice video! Gary S/V Kaylarah '90 C&C 27+ East Greenwich, RI, USA ~~~ _ / ) ~~ On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Josh Muckley via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: An amateur drone pilot spotted us while we were out sailing. He searched our boat name and then tracked down our web page and email. He shared the video and we put it on our facebook page, how cool! https://www.facebook.com/cbcsailing/videos/700045376848423/ Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD -- When security matters. http://www.secure-my-email.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Drone Video
Very cool. A guy in our yacht club drone-filmed the start of a Wednesday night race a few weeks back. I've been pestering him for the video but it's not available yet. Will post once I get it. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO Commodore, Colorado Sail & Yacht Club ( http://csyc.org ) - Original Message - From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Josh Muckley" Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2017 11:27:26 AM Subject: Stus-List Drone Video An amateur drone pilot spotted us while we were out sailing. He searched our boat name and then tracked down our web page and email. He shared the video and we put it on our facebook page, how cool! https://www.facebook.com/cbcsailing/videos/700045376848423/ Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD -- When security matters. http://www.secure-my-email.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads
Greg I don't know if you've already seen my write-up of my mast step rebuild project on my 30-1 this spring, but in case it's of any help to you, here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Greg Sutherland via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Greg Sutherland" Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2017 9:24:27 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads Thanks everyone for the info. I spoke with Danny from Klacko spars yesterday and he's certain that he would have installed my original mast in '87. He figures even when falling into a wave with full sails the forces wouldn't exceed 4000 psi. Seems light to me but who am I to argue with him. I thought I notice Mr. Knowles at the club on the weekend so I'll definitely run it past him - thanks for mentioning that. I have the entire mast step "excavated" to the keel and am starting the rebuild. Can't wait for this one to be finished! Thanks! Greg 33 mk2 Halifax On Jun 27, 2017, at 10:52 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: I used a total of ½” aluminum on mine when I rebuilt it. It looks about 20 times stronger than the original was too. Joe Coquina CC&C 35 MK I From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Russ & Melody via CnC-List Sent: Monday, June 26, 2017 9:18 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Russ & Melody < russ...@telus.net > Subject: Re: Stus-List 33 mk2 Mast step loads Hi Greg, You can research the righting moment, at say 30 - 33 degrees, for various boats in your size range for a second opinion. The 33-2 is similar in stability to my 35 mk-1(check diagram in the Technical Info on Stu's CNC site). I put the load at about 10,000 lbs, so building for 12 - 15,000 lbs is not a unreasonable. If you're going with aluminum only then I would spec it at 20,000 for a 50% corrosion allowance and say, "I expect this to last another 20 years." BTW, check with Rich Knowles on my credentials, if in doubt. :) Hi Rich, we miss you on the Left Coast. Cheers, Russ Sweet 35 mk-1 At 03:15 AM 26/06/2017, you wrote: Does anyone know what the maximum load would be on the mast step of the 33? I'm trying to figure out the psi force for a rebuild Thanks! Greg 33-2 Halifax ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe?
Also I forgot to say, the asking price is about $17,700 given the current euro / dollar exchange rate. If she passes a professional survey I think that's reasonably fair given her age and how she's equipped and assuming she looks as good close up as in the pictures. I paid about $16,000 for Grenadine including a triple-axle 38' trailer. One thing you should inspect of course is her sail inventory. And it wasn't clear from the listing and pictures whether she has any kind of battery charging system (solar, 12V charger from shore power, etc.). Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Sander van der Moolen" To: "RANDY" , "cnc-list" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:47:30 AM Subject: RE: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? Hi Randy, Thanks for the links and info, very helpful! Love the pictures and your detailed project report. Will certainly keep that on hand. Not sure if the boat has carbon spars, I will check when we go to visit it. She sure looks great, that’s what attracted me to the 27 back then too. And 1.90m headroom in the cabin, I can comfortably stand upright in there! I think 15k is very reasonable, especially if she’s in good shape structurally. I do plan to have a professional survey done. What is the length of the forward cabin bed, btw? We want a boat which can take us on vacation for a week or two (or longer) so a comfy bed is kinda important. Thanks! Sander Van: RANDY [mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net] Verzonden: maandag 12 juni 2017 17:52 Aan: cnc-list CC: sander Onderwerp: Re: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? That is a good-looking boat Sander. Does it have carbon spars? (I can't read Dutch, but it kind of looks like it in the pictures). Nice that it has tiller steering and all lines led aft with deck organizers etc. And a dodger. And spinnaker gear. In the pictures the mainsheet is removed but I can see the traveler car track just aft of the bridge deck. My 30-1 has tiller steering and boom-end sheeting with the traveler at the aft end of the cockpit, which makes for a very roomy cockpit (pics at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTVnJfSm9lRnZNa1E ). It's hard to find information on the 30E. Sailboatdata.com doesn't have it. I saw polar diagrams for a 30E once - see http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2016-September/088575.html . Apparently they were built from 1977-1982 but I don't know how many were built. They seem rare :) On my 30-1, built eight years before the boat you're looking at, the biggest trouble spot was the mast step supports - I had to rebuild them (see https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM ). I also had some water ingress at the chainplate cutouts. But a professional survey, and a careful inspection following Don Casey's book, didn't find any deal-breakers or showstoppers. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "sander via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: "cnc-list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "sander" < san...@vpilot.net > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 4:24:58 AM Subject: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? Hi all, I hope everybody is enjoying a fantastic sailing season so far. It's been years since I subbed this list, back then you gave me great advice regarding the purchase of a completely stripped c&c 27. I ended up not buying the boat, mostly because I lack both experience and money to complete a rebuild project within any reasonable timeframe. In the meantime I left my employer to start my own business. After a bit of initial struggles, the success is giving me the benefit of expanding my budget for a boat, for which I am very grateful :-) And guess what... another c&c for sale just 15 mins driving from where i live. This one is a 30E which apparently is a European build. I live in The Netherlands, by the way. Here is a link to the boat for sale: http://www.devaartyachting.com/nl/956/cc-30e.html Really, I don't know why c&c keeps calling me hahaha. Does anyone of you have any experience with this particular model and what are the things I should specifically look for when going to see the boat? It's on blocks so I can see under the waterline as well. Thanks! Sander. Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly ap
Re: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe?
Well, I don't know the exact measurement of the forward V-berth, but let me put it this way. I'm about 6'3" tall and I just barely fit in the V-berth. My feet can touch the forward bulkhead while my head touches the next one aft. And there's not much room forward for both my feet and my wife's feet. We find the most comfortable sleeping arrangement is to convert the dinette, and slide out the starboard settee. I can lay corner-to-corner on the converted dinette and have enough room. Your mileage may vary, depending on the berths in the 30E and your heights (the 30E appears to have settees on both sides, and a fold-down table around the mast. That's a different interior layout than the 30-1.) More pics of Grenadine (from last year) at https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-NqAxQ6JxFTY0VBM2hlT0hveDQ . Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Sander van der Moolen" To: "RANDY" , "cnc-list" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 10:47:30 AM Subject: RE: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? Hi Randy, Thanks for the links and info, very helpful! Love the pictures and your detailed project report. Will certainly keep that on hand. Not sure if the boat has carbon spars, I will check when we go to visit it. She sure looks great, that’s what attracted me to the 27 back then too. And 1.90m headroom in the cabin, I can comfortably stand upright in there! I think 15k is very reasonable, especially if she’s in good shape structurally. I do plan to have a professional survey done. What is the length of the forward cabin bed, btw? We want a boat which can take us on vacation for a week or two (or longer) so a comfy bed is kinda important. Thanks! Sander Van: RANDY [mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net] Verzonden: maandag 12 juni 2017 17:52 Aan: cnc-list CC: sander Onderwerp: Re: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? That is a good-looking boat Sander. Does it have carbon spars? (I can't read Dutch, but it kind of looks like it in the pictures). Nice that it has tiller steering and all lines led aft with deck organizers etc. And a dodger. And spinnaker gear. In the pictures the mainsheet is removed but I can see the traveler car track just aft of the bridge deck. My 30-1 has tiller steering and boom-end sheeting with the traveler at the aft end of the cockpit, which makes for a very roomy cockpit (pics at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTVnJfSm9lRnZNa1E ). It's hard to find information on the 30E. Sailboatdata.com doesn't have it. I saw polar diagrams for a 30E once - see http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2016-September/088575.html . Apparently they were built from 1977-1982 but I don't know how many were built. They seem rare :) On my 30-1, built eight years before the boat you're looking at, the biggest trouble spot was the mast step supports - I had to rebuild them (see https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM ). I also had some water ingress at the chainplate cutouts. But a professional survey, and a careful inspection following Don Casey's book, didn't find any deal-breakers or showstoppers. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "sander via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: "cnc-list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "sander" < san...@vpilot.net > Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 4:24:58 AM Subject: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? Hi all, I hope everybody is enjoying a fantastic sailing season so far. It's been years since I subbed this list, back then you gave me great advice regarding the purchase of a completely stripped c&c 27. I ended up not buying the boat, mostly because I lack both experience and money to complete a rebuild project within any reasonable timeframe. In the meantime I left my employer to start my own business. After a bit of initial struggles, the success is giving me the benefit of expanding my budget for a boat, for which I am very grateful :-) And guess what... another c&c for sale just 15 mins driving from where i live. This one is a 30E which apparently is a European build. I live in The Netherlands, by the way. Here is a link to the boat for sale: http://www.devaartyachting.com/nl/956/cc-30e.html Really, I don't know why c&c keeps calling me hahaha. Does anyone of you have any experience with this particular model and what are the things I should specifically look for when going to see the boat? It's on blocks so I can see under the waterline as well. Thanks! Sander. Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly a
Re: Stus-List C&c 40 bolts
I torqued the five keel bolts on my 30-1 this spring (four at 350 ft-lbs, one at 250) by myself. The actual torquing part took about 15 minutes. Of course, the mast was off the boat, and I'd removed all the old bilge plumbing and cleaned the bilge. And I had to drive to a local rental place and rent a 650 ft-lb torque wrench with a four-foot handle and various sockets, adapters, and extensions, then drive to return all that crap afterward. If all your bolts were already accessible and clear, and the yard already had the torque wrench, I'd think a half-hour would be the actual amount of labor. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "PETER OCAMPO" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:41:00 AM Subject: Stus-List C&c 40 bolts Hi guys Before I speak to the yard. About charging me 5 hours to torque my 5 bolts 3 large at 450ft/lbs that I fully exposed i.e. Moved wires removed cabin table and covers cleared water from bildge just wondering what the avg time charged or if it takes multiple guys to do this job Peter Goonie island C&c 40 1983 aft cabin Sent from my iPhone ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe?
That is a good-looking boat Sander. Does it have carbon spars? (I can't read Dutch, but it kind of looks like it in the pictures). Nice that it has tiller steering and all lines led aft with deck organizers etc. And a dodger. And spinnaker gear. In the pictures the mainsheet is removed but I can see the traveler car track just aft of the bridge deck. My 30-1 has tiller steering and boom-end sheeting with the traveler at the aft end of the cockpit, which makes for a very roomy cockpit (pics at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTVnJfSm9lRnZNa1E ). It's hard to find information on the 30E. Sailboatdata.com doesn't have it. I saw polar diagrams for a 30E once - see http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2016-September/088575.html . Apparently they were built from 1977-1982 but I don't know how many were built. They seem rare :) On my 30-1, built eight years before the boat you're looking at, the biggest trouble spot was the mast step supports - I had to rebuild them (see https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM ). I also had some water ingress at the chainplate cutouts. But a professional survey, and a careful inspection following Don Casey's book, didn't find any deal-breakers or showstoppers. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "sander via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "sander" Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 4:24:58 AM Subject: Stus-List New potential C&C owner... maybe? Hi all, I hope everybody is enjoying a fantastic sailing season so far. It's been years since I subbed this list, back then you gave me great advice regarding the purchase of a completely stripped c&c 27. I ended up not buying the boat, mostly because I lack both experience and money to complete a rebuild project within any reasonable timeframe. In the meantime I left my employer to start my own business. After a bit of initial struggles, the success is giving me the benefit of expanding my budget for a boat, for which I am very grateful :-) And guess what... another c&c for sale just 15 mins driving from where i live. This one is a 30E which apparently is a European build. I live in The Netherlands, by the way. Here is a link to the boat for sale: http://www.devaartyachting.com/nl/956/cc-30e.html Really, I don't know why c&c keeps calling me hahaha. Does anyone of you have any experience with this particular model and what are the things I should specifically look for when going to see the boat? It's on blocks so I can see under the waterline as well. Thanks! Sander. Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung Galaxy-smartphone. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List How are the reefing lines run on a 33-2
On my 30-1 I've got a jam cleat on the starboard side of the mast for the cunningham. It runs down from the cunningham cringle in the sail, through a cheek block at the base of the mast, then back up to the jam cleat. So the jam cleat prevents the tail from being pulled down. I've got two reef points each rigged for single-line slab reefing. The reefing lines run from boom port side D-rings up through the reef point clews, down through boom starboard-side cheek blocks, then forward to a mast-mounted double swivel block below the gooseneck, then up the starboard side through the reef point tacks, then down the port side to small cam cleats on the mast. I don't currently have reef hooks, so I have to "move" the tack shackle to the reef point tack when reefing, and back to the normal tack when unreefing. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Doug Welch via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Doug Welch" Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 9:28:48 AM Subject: Stus-List How are the reefing lines run on a 33-2 I cant seem to figure it out. I have a jam cleat on the starboard side of the mast the stops a line from being pulled towards the deck (is this part of it?). I'm stumped Thanks in advance Doug Welch Celtic Knot 33-2 c/b Frenchman's Bay ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List USCG vessel documentation renewal scam again
Here's the guy responsible: John Soria, owner of "US Vessel Documentation" (uscgdocumentation.us) - https://www.facebook.com/captainjohnsoria His Facebook profile introduction says "Jesus is my Lord, my wife is my soul mate, I was destined to be an entrepreneur!". The truth is he's about as phony a Christian as you can imagine, and more predator than "entrepreneur". And that's putting it politely. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dave Godwin via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Dave Godwin" Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:17:22 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List USCG vessel documentation renewal scam again Indeed. Filling out my official documentation update form right now. Both the real and scam notices arrived at the same time, confusing my wife. Cheers, Dave Godwin 1982 C&C 37 - Ronin Reedville - Chesapeake Bay Ronin’s Overdue Refit On Jun 5, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Got my "courtesy notice" from the vessel documentation scammers today. Even though I've never fallen for it, it really irritates me. Might send them an email saying "nice try, scammers". Again, for those new to the list, uscgdocumentation.us is a third party entity which will charge you about 3 times the renewal fee. The official documentation site is https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/ . I notice the tab on this site now says "THE ONLY OFFICIAL SITE...". The fee is only $26. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Intriguing challenge
Ouch, Dennis, but I wonder if a drop of five minute epoxy on a small bolt or dowel could be used? Perhaps a little oil squirted in to defeat adhesion around pin/track, clean top of pin, and glue. Go have a couple of barley pops (ne’er mind that, wait til done!), and then with some judicious wiggling of slide, lift dowel and pin enough to move slide to top of track? At that point a piece of tin could be slid between slide and track to slide back to remove. Just a thought, perhaps you can develop better. Good Luck, randy Tamanawas 29-II Hood River, OR From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. via CnC-List Sent: Sunday, June 4, 2017 10:28 AM To: CnClist Cc: Dennis C. Subject: Stus-List Intriguing challenge Was replacing end stops on the jib track this week and noticed a knurled knob on the deck. It was the pull knob for the jib slide. See pic: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsWm0yY3FCT0x3TjA Note knob in shadow and the top of the pull pin on the slide. It is a spring pin slide. I have found a replacement slide but now need to remove the broken one. This is the challenge. Option 1: Tie line to slide, take to winch and tension to "bind" pin in hole in T-track. Drill and tap pin and insert machine screw to lift pin in order to slide it off. Option 2: Cut slide lengthwise, separate and remove. I have Dremel, RotoZip and side grinder. Side grinder and RotoZip would be great but they have a way of getting away from me. I don't need a bunch of gouges in the deck. Might take a lot of cutting wheels with the Dremel but higher comfort level with control of tool. Option 3: Remove the T-track. Plug all the holes on one end, drill hole from back side to push pin up and slide off. Probably would have to drill a couple holes. This is by far least desirable option. Option 4: Drill/grind metal from top of slide to expose pin, remove spring and try to remove pin with needle nose pliers, hemostat, magnet?, etc. Option 5: Remove T-track, dumpster it and the slide. Install new track. Seems dumb. Options 1 and 4 seem best. Probably won't do this job for several weeks since I don't expect to use the slide anytime soon. Will advise how it went. A, the joy of boat ownership. :) Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Siphoning bilge pump hose?
Both these stories would seem to suggest bilge hose discharge ports low on the boats' transoms - is that true? If so that would seem a slightly risky location for discharge ports, as the stories bear out. In that situation is it possible to change the location of the discharge port, as in cut a new hole for a through-hull high up on the boat's quarter, and patch the old hole on the boat's transom? Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "robert via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "robert" Sent: Friday, June 2, 2017 6:45:20 AM Subject: Stus-List Siphoning bilge pump hose? A fellow club member with a C&C 41 was doing a trip from Halifax, N.S. to St. John's, Newfoundland.at 2 a.m. an off-watch crew member heard the electric bilge pump running and wouldn't stopthe water kept coming into the bilge and they didn't know where it was coming from.all hands are now awake searching every possible thru hull, valve, etc looking for the source of the waterno luck and they are getting very nervous.everyone puts on a PFD and the life raft is untied just in case. There is a following seafinally one of the crew realizes the water is coming in from the hose of the manual pump.with the following sea, the water started siphoning into the boat through the manual bilge pump hose. They cut the hose where it runs aft in the lazaret and put a wooden plug is the back end. No more manual bilge pump for the rest of the voyage but it didn't bother them.they were now safe.that was a bit of excitement in the middle of the night. I had a similar setup for the manual bilge pump hose on my 32, however, after I heard their story, now there is a high loop and a check vale. And I won't be doing any crossings from Halifax to St. John's. Rob Abbott AZURA C&C 32 - 84 Halifax, N.S. On 2017-06-01 10:26 AM, Joe Boyle via CnC-List wrote: We had a nasty scare last night after our Wednesday night race. We were motoring back to the dock - about a half hour trip and I climbed down the companionway into about 2 inches of bay water. The bilge was full and overflowing as we motored along. Inspection revealed no leaks that i could see from the engine compartment - shaft log, water pump, muffler and exhaust and thru hulls were all fine. I jump up to the head and check all 3 thru hulls there - all dry. We finally get the auto bilge pump working and pumped all the water out - and no more leak. I believe that the float switch may have been stuck. So here's my theory - under power the 30 MK1 tends to squat and the bilge outlet is below the water on the stern. We had had rain the week before and I had neglected to turn on the manual switch to get out the last of any water in the bilge - the float switch always leaves a few cupfuls in the bilge. I am thinking that while under way with the outlet submerged, the bilge pump cycled on. Then - as usual - the remaining water in the hose flowed back into the bilge. But this time with the outlet underwater, it started water siphoning into the boat. After cleaning it all up I checked it in the morning - and it was dry as usual. The bilge hose has a high loop in it but no air break or check valve. I am thinking a check valve or an air break would keep this from happening again - any opinions would be welcome. Oh - and I think I will fix the manual bilge pump that I have been putting off for a while! thanks, Joe ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Siphoning bilge pump hose?
Hi Joe, This offseason I overhauled my 30-1's bilge plumbing, so spent some time thinking through the design issues. Wrote it all up at http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2017-March/091421.html . I use my manual diaphragm pump, a Whale Gusher 10 mounted under the cockpit sole, for pumping out the lowest inch+ of "nuisance water" every time I visit the boat - I don't mind. I rebuilt it last year with a rebuild kit after the old diaphragm tore. The electric pumps are for emergencies i.e. serious leaks. I leave them switched to automatic mode and their circuits are wired directly to the batteries. I calculate they could run for about 80 hours before depleting the batteries, if a leak starts while the boat is unattended. I was swayed by the opinion of a marine surveyor that there shouldn't be check valves downstream of electric centrifugal pumps in case they stick closed and prevent the pumps from doing their job. The link to that article is in the above posting to Stu's List. So I removed all check valves when overhauling Grenadine's bilge plumbing. As a result I have seen that my electric pumps can cycle when hose water drains back in, but it's not an issue because I pump out the nuisance water frequently enough with the manual pump. Grenadine's discharge is on her port quarter at the cove stripe, and the discharge hoses have high loops under the cockpit coaming there. If all that ever submerges deep enough and long enough to create a siphon, it means I've already got bigger problems i.e. my cockpit is submerged. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Joe Boyle via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Joe Boyle" Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2017 7:26:53 AM Subject: Stus-List Siphoning bilge pump hose? We had a nasty scare last night after our Wednesday night race. We were motoring back to the dock - about a half hour trip and I climbed down the companionway into about 2 inches of bay water. The bilge was full and overflowing as we motored along. Inspection revealed no leaks that i could see from the engine compartment - shaft log, water pump, muffler and exhaust and thru hulls were all fine. I jump up to the head and check all 3 thru hulls there - all dry. We finally get the auto bilge pump working and pumped all the water out - and no more leak. I believe that the float switch may have been stuck. So here's my theory - under power the 30 MK1 tends to squat and the bilge outlet is below the water on the stern. We had had rain the week before and I had neglected to turn on the manual switch to get out the last of any water in the bilge - the float switch always leaves a few cupfuls in the bilge. I am thinking that while under way with the outlet submerged, the bilge pump cycled on. Then - as usual - the remaining water in the hose flowed back into the bilge. But this time with the outlet underwater, it started water siphoning into the boat. After cleaning it all up I checked it in the morning - and it was dry as usual. The bilge hose has a high loop in it but no air break or check valve. I am thinking a check valve or an air break would keep this from happening again - any opinions would be welcome. Oh - and I think I will fix the manual bilge pump that I have been putting off for a while! thanks, Joe ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Chesapeake bay
I've got to say, I agree with you :) Don't know how many 30s are on the Chesapeake, but found this video from two years ago of one ripping along at 6.5 kts SOG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAzsfZRu2EE, posted by "AdmiralMaggieMD". Started this 2017 photo album of Grenadine on Chatfield Reservoir: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTVnJfSm9lRnZNa1E Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Andrew Burton via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Andrew Burton" Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 2:28:48 PM Subject: Stus-List Chesapeake bay Just passed a gorgeous 30 named Foxy ghosting beautifully along at the head of Chesapeake Bay. Love those boats! Andy C&C 40 Peregrine Andrew Burton 61 West Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 +401 965 5260 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List The beauty of theC&C 39
All this got me curious so I looked and have to agree, the 39 is beautiful. A while back I read Yacht Design According to Perry to learn the concepts and vocabulary, but I lack the words and experience to articulate why the 39 is so beautiful. The review on cncphotoalbum does justice ( http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/review39.htm ). Apparently only 48 built, starting 1971 ending 1974 according to sailboatdata.com. Speaking of Catalina 27s, whooped 'em again last night :) The entire fleet was trying to barge the committee boat end of the starting line, and I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to push 'em all above the RC boat :) Last week Grenadine beat the Catalina 27s by 2.5-3.5 minutes in a 26-minute race in 20mph winds, and their skippers and crews are much more experienced sailors than me and my crew! I am glad to have a boat with some character and distinction and quality and performance even if she is an older gal. I learned to sail from an old Canadian salt ( https://www.victoriasailingschool.com/index.php/home/ownership ) who has a J/30, and when I asked him about potentially buying a C&C he said "they build a good boat". Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Andrew Burton via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Andrew Burton" Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 8:51:11 AM Subject: Stus-List The beauty of theC&C 39 The discussions here on the beauty of the C&C 39 might be taken as the self congratulatory preening of smug owners were not the facts on their side. While I'm particularly partial to the 40, I agree that the 39 is floating art. I sailed on a 39 called Pachena in the 70s and fell in love with the boat right then and there. While looking for a cruising boat, I lusted after a 39, but the layout didn't suit my wife and I. But I did have a couple of chats with Bob Perry about the 39. If you think the 39 owners on the list are smitten with their boats, you should hear what one of the best yacht designers in the world has to say about them and the way they look. It's like listening to an expert talk about his favorite wine! Congrats to all who are lucky enough to own one of these gems! And to all the rest of us, too. It's remarkable how lovely our boats are compared to the competition, whether contemporary or modern. When I was a lad, the Catalina 27 was a direct competitor to the C&C 27 (like my dad owned), but there was no comparison in looks or quality. Nowadays, when I sail Peregrine home to Newport from Cutty Hunk, I am generally close hauled with the sheets eased just a bit and laying my mark with no problem as I watch modern slide to leeward and eventually give up and turn on the engine to motor the rest of the way. And they look ugly while they do it! Happy sailing Andy C&C 40 Peregrine -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Honey - was RE: A C&C 39 that has not been trashed! Was C&C 39 trash project
Mike I am discovering the things you write about - "make it as it should be", "lavishing attention on our boats", etc. My wife has noticed that last one too :) I've been using the excuse "I'm just doing what the boat deserves"! How does that joke go again? A psychiatrist told a patient that men have boats because they can't have mistresses, but the psychiatrist got it backwards. Men have mistresses when they can't have boats :) Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Mike via CnC-List Hoyt" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Mike Hoyt" Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 7:52:07 AM Subject: Stus-List Honey - was RE: A C&C 39 that has not been trashed! Was C&C 39 trash project Maybe more than it could be sold for but definitely not more than it is worth. Worth is measured in more than dollars and the reality is that to take any boat and make it as it should be can be many thousands or tens of thousands more than the purchase price. The only difference as I see it is that spending $20,000 on regular maintenance on a newer $250,000 boat seems more normal than doing so on an older $40,000 boat. They are both still sailboats and cost the same to run. Lavishing attention on our boats is often reward enough by itself and some may suggest that it is more rewarding to some of us than doing the same to people! Mike Persistence Also spent way too much over the past 4 years (and the 10+ before that!) From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2017 9:08 AM To: C&CList Cc: Jack Fitzgerald Subject: Re: Stus-List A C&C 39 that has not been trashed! Was C&C 39 trash project I have sailed and raced my 39TM at least 100,000 miles since purchase in 1975 and even with the original rudder never suffered the round up issued mention earlier in the thread. However, in late 1976 C&C sent me a new and updated deeper rudder "free of charge" and the boat just simply sailed even better. Then in 2002, I had new high aspect rudder designed and built for Honey and improvement was beyond belief. Sadly, the maintenance, new UK sails & general upkeep over the last 4 years costs more than the boat is worth. I can honestly say that our C&C 39 TM has aged like a fine wine, after 42 years of owning her she just keeps getting better, I just wish that her value would increase as well. I agree, the 39 is the prettiest of the hulls that C&C built and they built some damn good looking boats. Best regards, Jack Fitzgerald HONEY US12788 On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 7:13 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: The 39s may have issues, but I swear they have to be about the prettiest thing C&C ever made J I wonder if a short bowsprit and moving the forestay out half a foot would solve the roundup issue. My 35 MK I looks a lot like a 39 with a few feet cut off and we don’t suffer that round-up issue to that extent at all. Joe Coquina ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
Ok that made me laugh :D That's why I first noticed that speed via the replay. I sure as hell am not looking at my iPhone in the middle of that kind of chaos :) In fact this past Wednesday night when I finally got a rail in the water, I even forgot to look at my clinometer in all the excitement - but I suspect she was heeling around 30 degrees. I know 25 degrees isn't enough to get the rail wet. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Gary Nylander" Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:11:53 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night I remember that Randy is on a lake in Colorado. More than likely his burst of speed is the hull settling into the water as it goes faster and thus increasing the waterline – and/or being heeled over which also increases the waterline. When my 30-1 gets the rail in the water in 20-30 knots of wind, I am generally too busy to look at the speed. I’m sure all of you nautical types remember the war stories about clipper ships going so fast they literally bury themselves as the make a bigger and bigger hole in the water. I am not interested in trying that. Oh well. Gary From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Russell via CnC-List Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:01 PM To: C&C List Cc: Gary Russell Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over the water. A one knot favorable current can easily explain the difference. Gary S/V Kaylarah '90 C&C 37+ East Greenwich, RI, USA ~~~ _ / ) ~~ On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC. Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph. Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case this is all wrong. Ron Wild Cheri C&C 30-1 STL From: RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: cnc-list < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night I'm just as surprised as anyone. I know that 1.34 times the square root of 24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots. But apparently that's only a very general rule - see http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed . At 9,000 pounds displacement I guarantee I'm not planing :) But I assume GPS doesn't lie. On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during a race. I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the water). If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518&divisionId=41508&updatedAt=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z&dt=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00&boat=Grenadine I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :) Maybe at 25 degrees of heel my waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet. Or maybe I just have to give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for designing a faster-than-predicted hull form. Cheers, Randy From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: "CnC CnC discussion list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "David Knecht" < davidakne...@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night Theoretical hull speed of a C&C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line). How are you hitting 7.6-8? Foils? Dave ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
I don't believe there is any measurable current in Chatfield Reservoir. It's a J-shaped inland flood control reservoir of about 2.33 square miles surface area and 27,000 acre-feet normal volume, on the South Platte River (also fed by the smaller Plum Creek). The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers generally controls outflow to first avoid downstream flooding, then keep the water level at 5,432' (full pool, ~75' max depth over riverbed) down to 5,423' in a drought. Right now there's 289 cfs flowing in and 120 cfs flowing out. It would be exceedingly rare for outflow to significantly exceed inflow, which would be the most probable way of causing any measurable surface-level current. I know the RaceQs phone app reads out in knots. Available evidence indicates the website replays read out in knots as well, but I'm confirming with the company. I'm also trying to confirm the phone app's speed measurement algorithm. I assume it samples the phone's GPS position at some frequency, computes the distance between position samples, divides by the sampling period to yield speed, then does unit conversion to nautical miles per hour. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Russell via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Gary Russell" Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 12:00:40 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night Remember your GPS gives you speed over ground, while Hull Speed is speed over the water. A one knot favorable current can easily explain the difference. Gary S/V Kaylarah '90 C&C 37+ East Greenwich, RI, USA ~~~ _ / ) ~~ On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:16 PM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: GPS is usually in miles per hour IIRC. Knots is faster by about 15%, so 6.7kt times 1.15 would be about 7.7mph. Unless your GPS is set in kt in which case this is all wrong. Ron Wild Cheri C&C 30-1 STL From: RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: cnc-list < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night I'm just as surprised as anyone. I know that 1.34 times the square root of 24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots. But apparently that's only a very general rule - see http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed . At 9,000 pounds displacement I guarantee I'm not planing :) But I assume GPS doesn't lie. On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during a race. I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the water). If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518&divisionId=41508&updatedAt=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z&dt=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00&boat=Grenadine I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :) Maybe at 25 degrees of heel my waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet. Or maybe I just have to give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for designing a faster-than-predicted hull form. Cheers, Randy From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: "CnC CnC discussion list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "David Knecht" < davidakne...@gmail.com > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night Theoretical hull speed of a C&C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line). How are you hitting 7.6-8? Foils? Dave ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
I'm just as surprised as anyone. I know that 1.34 times the square root of 24.75 (Grenadine's waterline in feet) is 6.67 knots. But apparently that's only a very general rule - see http://www.boats.com/reviews/crunching-numbers-hull-speed-boat-length and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed . At 9,000 pounds displacement I guarantee I'm not planing :) But I assume GPS doesn't lie. On June 22nd last year I was using RaceQs during a race. I forgot to switch it off after finishing, so it recorded Grenadine sailing for fun in the 25-33mph gusts that piped up after the race, under full main and 150% genoa (which tore that night, before I could get a rail in the water). If you watch this replay from 19:42:50-19:43:00 local time, you'll see Grenadine going 7.5 knots over ground according to RaceQs GPS-based iPhone app: http://raceqs.com/tv-beta/tv.htm#userId=1032518&divisionId=41508&updatedAt=2016-06-23T03:05:38Z&dt=2016-06-22T18:08:05-06:00..2016-06-22T21:05:54-06:00&boat=Grenadine I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth :) Maybe at 25 degrees of heel my waterline length is appreciably longer than 24.75 feet. Or maybe I just have to give credit to George Cassian, George Cuthbertson, and Rob Ball for designing a faster-than-predicted hull form. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "David Knecht via CnC-List" To: "CnC CnC discussion list" Cc: "David Knecht" Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 1:25:19 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Fun Race Last Night Theoretical hull speed of a C&C 30 is 6.7 knots (based on 25’ water line). How are you hitting 7.6-8? Foils? Dave Aries 1990 C&C 34+ New London, CT On May 18, 2017, at 2:29 PM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Congratulations Randy! Now enjoy the snowstorm! Chuck Gilchrest Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2017, at 12:21 PM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: It was a good night for a C&C 30 MK I on Chatfield Reservoir last night - blowing 20mph. My competition was depowering, but I flew my 150 :) Grenadine did round up once on the way to the windward mark, but other than that the amount of weather helm was about right - tiller about five degrees above centerline. Managed to get a rail in the water for the first time and don't know why - I've sailed in stronger wind with the same amount of sail - must've had more rail meat those times. Anyway, Grenadine was second across the starting line. Only tacked once, and overtook the leader, before rounding the windward mark. Had the thrill of leading the fleet from there, and took line honors. Beat the next boat, a Cal 22, by 73 seconds in a 30-minute race, but he has a gift PHRF of 246 and should correct over me by a few seconds. Saw 8 knots on the knotmeter but don't trust its calibration and didn't verify with GPS. However I hit 7.6 knots on GPS last year with a fixed 2-blade prop. I think she can break 8 knots with her new folding prop; I can tell she's faster. Offseason projects paying off; wanted to share the joy. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Fun Race Last Night
It was a good night for a C&C 30 MK I on Chatfield Reservoir last night - blowing 20mph. My competition was depowering, but I flew my 150 :) Grenadine did round up once on the way to the windward mark, but other than that the amount of weather helm was about right - tiller about five degrees above centerline. Managed to get a rail in the water for the first time and don't know why - I've sailed in stronger wind with the same amount of sail - must've had more rail meat those times. Anyway, Grenadine was second across the starting line. Only tacked once, and overtook the leader, before rounding the windward mark. Had the thrill of leading the fleet from there, and took line honors. Beat the next boat, a Cal 22, by 73 seconds in a 30-minute race, but he has a gift PHRF of 246 and should correct over me by a few seconds. Saw 8 knots on the knotmeter but don't trust its calibration and didn't verify with GPS. However I hit 7.6 knots on GPS last year with a fixed 2-blade prop. I think she can break 8 knots with her new folding prop; I can tell she's faster. Offseason projects paying off; wanted to share the joy. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Moldy Lines
I bring all my lines home in the fall and put them in mesh washing bags in the washing machine with detergent and bleach and fabric softener. They come out very clean and plush, but I worry a bit that it wears them. And it can ruin the mesh washing bags. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Josh Muckley" Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 4:30:05 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Moldy Lines I just throw mine in the washing machine. Never done it but I hear fabric softener is great for giving them a soft feel. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On May 9, 2017 5:53 PM, "Edd Schillay via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers, As I prep the Enterprise for launch on Thursday, I noticed some of my halyards and control lines have a green moldy tint on them. Anyone know the best cleaning solution to use to get them back to normal? All the best, Edd --- Edd M. Schillay Captain of the Starship Enterprise C&C 37+ Sail Number: NCC-1701-B City Island, New York --- 914.774.9767 | Mobile --- Sent via iPhone 7 iPhone. iTypos. iApologize ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Hunter 26 in Trouble Yesterday at Chatfield
Correction, I mis-read the graph at http://wx.iwindsurf.com/map#39.548,-105.08,14,1 - the winds were only gusting to about 65mph, not 90. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "RANDY via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "RANDY" Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 9:44:07 AM Subject: Stus-List Hunter 26 in Trouble Yesterday at Chatfield Yesterday afternoon at Chatfield Reservoir (where I sail) a serious squall passed through. A Hunter 26 had one of her lines fouled in her prop, and couldn't furl her headsail due to fouled rigging. So she was out of control, without effective propulsion or steerage, at the mercy of 60mph winds gusting to 90mph. She's very lucky she didn't get dashed against the rocks of the dam. She was eventually towed to safety by a Park Ranger boat. Video by Trish Dishman at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/756brx498hn7sj2/AAAbDUxbbYUb6UCL7hZrWUN0a/20170507_151802.mp4?dl=0 . I was down there all day working on my boat and saw the whole thing happen. The guy shouldn't have gone out; you could see the weather building. A couple of J/22s also out there managed to ride it out by anchoring. It didn't occur to this Hunter guy to toss out his anchor and buy time to get his shit together. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Hunter 26 in Trouble Yesterday at Chatfield
Yesterday afternoon at Chatfield Reservoir (where I sail) a serious squall passed through. A Hunter 26 had one of her lines fouled in her prop, and couldn't furl her headsail due to fouled rigging. So she was out of control, without effective propulsion or steerage, at the mercy of 60mph winds gusting to 90mph. She's very lucky she didn't get dashed against the rocks of the dam. She was eventually towed to safety by a Park Ranger boat. Video by Trish Dishman at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/756brx498hn7sj2/AAAbDUxbbYUb6UCL7hZrWUN0a/20170507_151802.mp4?dl=0 . I was down there all day working on my boat and saw the whole thing happen. The guy shouldn't have gone out; you could see the weather building. A couple of J/22s also out there managed to ride it out by anchoring. It didn't occur to this Hunter guy to toss out his anchor and buy time to get his shit together. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Prop question
Hi Matthew, I had a similar problem this spring - had to pull my prop, a fixed two-blade, to replace it with a new Gori folding prop. I think the old prop had been on there about 22 years. I got it off with a 6" two-jaw puller from Harbor Freight. First I tried with a three-jaw 8" puller but it didn't fit well enough around the blades to stay on, so I had to drop back to a two-jaw. The 6" one came in a set of three (with two smaller ones) for $28. After pulling the prop off, I simply returned the entire set for a refund :) I would have kept the 8" three-jaw one if it had worked; it was only $18 and seemed like a useful thing to have around. Since you're just dealing with a hub, folding blades removed, I'd suggest a three-jaw puller. One thing: go to a hardware store and get a long spacer nut to screw on to the end of your prop shaft, so that the puller screw is pushing on the end of the spacer nut, not the end of your prop shaft. The more threads of spacer nut you can get on the shaft, the better IMO. When I pulled my prop this spring, the puller screw was bearing on the end of the prop shaft some, and it bent the tip of the prop shaft off-center a few degrees. Scared the crap out of me; I thought I was in for a prop shaft replacement job. But I was able to get the Gori on there and I think the Gori hub and nut may have straightened the shaft tip back out a bit, the way they install. I've motored about a half-dozen times now and can't discern any vibration or anything - the new prop works great in forward and reverse and under sail. So just be careful about that. Before putting a puller on it, I tried some other things like heat, and running melted candle wax into the keyhole. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford" Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 12:08:04 PM Subject: Stus-List Prop question Listers: I assume this has been covered before, but what is the best way to remove a 40-year old Martec folding prop from the shaft? The blades are off and the inside of the hub exposed, but the hub is not budging. Please advise. Thanks. Matthew L. Wolford 638 West Sixth Street Erie, PA 16507 (814) 459-9600 (Office) (814) 459-9661 (Fax) (814) 392-5599 (Cell) The information contained in this e-mail note and any attachments is intended for the personal and confidential use of the designated recipient(s). This communication may be an attorney-client communication, attorney work product, or otherwise privileged, confidential, or protected from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution, copying of, use of, or reliance upon this communication is prohibited. If you believe this communication was sent to you in error, do not read it. Please reply to the sender that you received the note in error and delete it. Thank you. Please consider the environment before printing this note. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Angled Prop Shaft
It's to allow you to pull the prop shaft without having to drop the rudder. My C&C 30 MK I has the same design. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Richard Gotthardt via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Richard Gotthardt" Sent: Sunday, May 7, 2017 7:01:36 PM Subject: Stus-List Angled Prop Shaft I was looking at a 1981 34 today and noticed that the prop shaft was slightly angled off the center line towards the port side. Is that by design to counteract prop walk? ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Sail advice - 1, 2 , 3 go
This has been a good thread. Grenadine came with six headsails not counting staysails: #1 genoa, 163%, medium-light #2 genoa, 148%, medium-heavy drifter, 148%, light #3 genoa, 128%, heavy working jib, ~100%, medium-heavy storm jib, heavy Last year I raced mostly with the #2 genoa, occasionally the #3. I never raced with the #1 because it would cost me a -3 PHRF adjustment and it probably can't point worth crap. I'll never need the storm jib where I sail (if I get caught out I'm at most 1.5 miles from the marina). But based on the comments in this thread, maybe I'll try racing with the working jib if it's ever really blowing on a race night, and find a way to sheet it inboard. Last week, first race of the year, I flew the drifter with lightweight sheets in <10 kts and the boat was fast, probably due also to her new folding prop. A Catalina 25 gapped the fleet with a good start, but I passed and held off the rest of the fleet, then finally overtook her just after the last mark rounding. Then my sheet broke - my crew didn't have a fair lead to the winch, and the sheet was rubbing on the edge of the genoa car - and things went to hell. ISAF case 82 and a bunch of other rules came into play. Hoping for a better performance tonight. Looks like the same wind conditions; I'll probably fly the drifter again. And I'll be measuring and setting sheeting angles a la http://www.sailmagazine.com/racing/regattas/headsail-sheeting/ once I get the time. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 7:20:25 AM Subject: Stus-List Sail advice - 1, 2 , 3 go Reading the thread on sail advice, there were a couple of not so obvious nuggets I'd like to amplify. A racer buddy of mine told me, you never change down from a #1 to a #2, you always go to the #3 or blade. Good advice. Couple of posts on the sail thread said something similar. Wind force increases with the square of speed. That's an important concept. Having what I'll call a linear suit of sails may not be best. That is, 155%, 125%, 100%. It may be better, as a couple posters hinted, to go 155%, 140-145% (heavy), 100%. Touche's "official" inventory is 155% (light), 125%, 95%. I rarely use the 125. Boat always seems underpowered. Instead, I put up an old Pentex 155 that has had the leach cut down a bit. It may be around 150% now. My feeling is a 140% would be about right for my #2. Touche' does have an inboard track for the 95%. However, for 20+ knots, we usually sheet to the toe rail. When I bought the boat, it had a 170%. That incurred a penalty so I sold it. Dennis C. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Removing Old Butyl Tape
You were so right Joe. The stuff is a miracle solvent. I happened to already have some at my house when you suggested this back on March 23rd. It together with a razor scraper has worked wonders removing old butyl, duct tape residue, and various other kinds of adhesive. Thanks for the tip. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Joseph Bognar via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Joseph Bognar" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 6:08:28 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Removing Old Butyl Tape Coleman camp fuel works the best Sent from Joe Bognar On Mar 23, 2017, at 6:36 PM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- Any tips on solvents or techniques for removing old butyl tape used to bed deck hardware? Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Winch Handle Pockets
When I bought Grenadine she had two Ronstan winch handle pockets - the kind with a velcro panel that sticks onto the boat with adhesive, then the pocket itself velcros to that panel. The other day I caught my shoe on the one in the cockpit, and pulled off the pocket, velcro panel and all (the adhesive failed). I contacted the company and they don't sell replacement panels, and the customer service rep didn't know what kind of adhesive was on it. Anybody have a favorite winch handle pocket? Or could recommend an adhesive for re-glueing the velcro panel in the cockpit? Cheers, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mast Step Support Rebuild Project Write-Up
Thank you all for the positive feedback. I've made several edits to the write-up since originally posting it, including adding a couple of drawings with my trigonometry calculations. It should be in its final form now. Stu if you want to post it on http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/index.htm, you are certainly welcome to do so. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 3:23:22 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mast Step Support Rebuild Project Write-Up Good job, Randy! Dennis C. On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 4:39 PM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- I put a write-up of my mast step support rebuild project this spring at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM . It's an 8.5MB PDF because it has 23 pictures in it. Hope it can be of as much help to the C&C community as the C&C community has been to me. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grendine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List 30-1 Mast Step Support Rebuild Project Write-Up
Listers- I put a write-up of my mast step support rebuild project this spring at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTUlhmbUs4YTZlZnM . It's an 8.5MB PDF because it has 23 pictures in it. Hope it can be of as much help to the C&C community as the C&C community has been to me. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grendine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List C&C 37+ Keel Bolt Torqueing & Rust Stains
I just torqued Grenadine's keel bolts last week. She's a 30-1, hull #7. Her forward-most bolt is 3/4" diameter with a 1&1/8" nut. The other five are 1" bolts with 1&1/2" nuts. I torqued them to the specs listed here: http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/torquebolts/torquebolts.htm - 250 ft/lbs for the forward bolt, 350 ft/lbs for the rest. I did back them off first, but did not lube them. On advice from Dennis and an old salt at West Marine, I backed off then re-torqued one bolt at a time, forward to aft. I found them all to be just a little bit loose - it took two or three times more swings of the wrench to torque them back up to spec as it did to back them off a bit (given the limited wrench swing room in the cabin, we're talking about backing them off maybe a quarter-turn, and tightening them back up maybe a half to three-quarter turn). I do believe doing that may have tightened up Grenadine's tiny "C&C smile" a little bit. A local equipment rental place had a 600 ft/lb torque wrench with about a five-foot handle on it, and a long extension for the sockets (which was necessary). Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Ron Ricci via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Ron Ricci" Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2017 6:50:21 AM Subject: Stus-List C&C 37+ Keel Bolt Torqueing & Rust Stains A few months ago, there was a discussion of rust stains and weeps of water appearing on the keel. My first thought had been that water from the bilge leaked around the keel bolts when the boat is on the hard. I had the boatyard do some exploration. They found a void in the keel that apparently filled with water. The void appeared threaded and may have been used to lift the keel. This all can be seen at: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AhpB-lul9d5YpQkMDs5DeOkS73p2 . Continued inspection found that there was no water leaking down from the bilge. While my boat is out of the water with the mast out, I’m going to torque the keel bolts. The C&C website lists torque values for ½” (80 ft-lbs), ¾” (250 ft-lbs) and 1” (350 ft-lbs). The 37+ may have another larger size bolt. I don’t know where these came from but found something similar attributed to an employee of Mars Metal (keel manufacturer?). Can any other owners confirm a few things? 1. What are the torque values that you’ve used? 2. Did you back off the nuts and lubricate? 3. If so, what did you use for lubrication? Regards, Ron Ron Ricci S/V Patriot C&C 37+ Bristol, RI ron.ri...@1968.usna.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adhesive Sealant for Bilge Pump
Thanks Bruce. I've got some 5200 but don't want to use it for exactly that reason (and that the pump strainer would have to be destructively removed if ever, or possibly the 5200 would weaken the strainer's plastic). I hadn't heard of hybrid sealant until I came across this Don Casey article today: http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/sealant.asp . This BoatLife Life Seal stuff is a mixture of polyurethane (5200) and silicone, so apparently has adhesive properties and won't eat plastic and can be non-destructively removed. Has anybody used that stuff before? Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Bruce Whitmore" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 3:15:31 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Adhesive Sealant for Bilge Pump I tried 5200 on my 1977 C&C 27 MKIII a few years ago and it peeled odd the fiberglass in the bilge. My new to me boat used a piece of 1" wide thin stainless which was bent 90 degrees at the bottom. The pump was screwed to that and a small hole or two were drilled high up where it could be screwed with short screws to the side of the bilge, or alternatively to something else. Essentially, a bracket. Seems to work well, and allows for pulling the pump easily. Kindest Regards, Bruce 847.404.5092 Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone. On Apr 12, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Randy, Can you glue a small piece of teak to the bilge floor with 5200 and screw the strainer to that? Dennis C. On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:19 PM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- Rule bilge pumps snap into plastic strainers, which Rule's installation instructions say to be screw in to the bilge to keep the pump in place. I don't think I want to go drilling screw holes into the bottom of my bilge - how have you all dealt with this issue? I'm thinking of using an adhesive sealant (e.g. BoatLife's Life Seal) to adhere the strainer to the bottom of the bilge. Thoughts? Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Adhesive Sealant for Bilge Pump
Well, I thought about that, but didn't like it for two reasons. First, the wood would eventually rot. Second, it raises the pump by some amount. I hadn't considered velcro - that could be a winner if its adhesive would stick when wet. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 1:06:17 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Adhesive Sealant for Bilge Pump Randy, Can you glue a small piece of teak to the bilge floor with 5200 and screw the strainer to that? Dennis C. On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:19 PM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- Rule bilge pumps snap into plastic strainers, which Rule's installation instructions say to be screw in to the bilge to keep the pump in place. I don't think I want to go drilling screw holes into the bottom of my bilge - how have you all dealt with this issue? I'm thinking of using an adhesive sealant (e.g. BoatLife's Life Seal) to adhere the strainer to the bottom of the bilge. Thoughts? Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Adhesive Sealant for Bilge Pump
Listers- Rule bilge pumps snap into plastic strainers, which Rule's installation instructions say to be screw in to the bilge to keep the pump in place. I don't think I want to go drilling screw holes into the bottom of my bilge - how have you all dealt with this issue? I'm thinking of using an adhesive sealant (e.g. BoatLife's Life Seal) to adhere the strainer to the bottom of the bilge. Thoughts? Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Barient 22ST - now Documentation
I just last night followed the advice in the BoatUS press release, and filed a complaint with the USPS Inspector General, even though it's been two months since I got suckered. Made sense, since this fraud started with a piece of mail. I'd previously filed complaints with the BBB, Department of Commerce, and USCG NVDC, but don't think those had much impact. I'm still pissed that there are assholes out there in the world doing this kind of shit, while owning fancy cars and claiming to be Christian according to their Facebook profiles. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford" Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 7:01:56 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Barient 22ST - now Documentation I sent a copy of my letter to the FBI about a month ago. Haven’t heard anything, but I can’t imagine that this is a priority. From: Rick Brass via CnC-List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 9:19 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Rick Brass Subject: Re: Stus-List Barient 22ST - now Documentation I got my renewal letter from the USCG yesterday. And got a letter from some documentation renewal site about 10 days ago. And today I saw a press release from Boat/US about documentation fraud. They are apparently getting a lot of complaints from members about the various documentation renewal companies, and the release indicates that some of the examples of letters and websites that they have been provided have no disclaimer to indicate they are not affiliated with USCG and that some of the letters and sites are virtually identical to the real USCG notification. Boat/US is telling boaters to contact the Boat/US fraud division, the Attorney General in your home state, and the Postal Inspector at your local Post Office. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 3:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Coleman Subject: Re: Stus-List Barient 22ST On another note, I am glad some people here mentioned the Scammers trying to fool us into renewing USCG Documentation for $75, I got one and darn near fell for it till I saw the $75, which jogged my memory and I threw it out. Bill Coleman C&C 39 Erie, PA ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List USCG NVDC Impersonators
Thanks Rick. Here's that press release: http://www.boatus.com/pressroom/release.asp?id=1280#.WOhYcMcnuq0 The guy who runs the company that scammed me (US Vessel Documentation, www.uscgdocumentation.us ) says on his Facebook page "Jesus is my lord" ( https://www.facebook.com/captainjohnsoria ). He's certainly not acting very Christian in this "business" of his. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Rick Brass" Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 7:19:58 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Barient 22ST - now Documentation I got my renewal letter from the USCG yesterday. And got a letter from some documentation renewal site about 10 days ago. And today I saw a press release from Boat/US about documentation fraud. They are apparently getting a lot of complaints from members about the various documentation renewal companies, and the release indicates that some of the examples of letters and websites that they have been provided have no disclaimer to indicate they are not affiliated with USCG and that some of the letters and sites are virtually identical to the real USCG notification. Boat/US is telling boaters to contact the Boat/US fraud division, the Attorney General in your home state, and the Postal Inspector at your local Post Office. Rick Brass Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill Coleman via CnC-List Sent: Friday, April 07, 2017 3:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Bill Coleman Subject: Re: Stus-List Barient 22ST On another note, I am glad some people here mentioned the Scammers trying to fool us into renewing USCG Documentation for $75, I got one and darn near fell for it till I saw the $75, which jogged my memory and I threw it out. Bill Coleman C&C 39 Erie, PA ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Second bilge pump
Hi Tom, and welcome. Nice choice of boat :) There was a thread on this subject last month. Check out http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2017-March/091421.html Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "T power via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "T power" Sent: Friday, April 7, 2017 10:34:44 AM Subject: Stus-List Second bilge pump Hello everyone, I own a 1973 C&C 30 MKI which I'm looking for some advise. I currently have one bilge pump, I would like to install a second pump, looking for advice on size to install. Thanks, Tom Sent from Outlook ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C&C 30 MK1 1979
I've only got short (~2') tracks between the rails and the coamings, with their forward ends at the aft lifeline gate stanchion / forward primary winch. I use them with the cars all the way forward for my #2 genoa (150%), and with the cars all the way aft for my #1 genoa (165%). I use snatch blocks on the rails for smaller headsails. With my #3 genoa (130%) I position the blocks just forward of the forward lifeline gate brace. To use my working jib I'd position the blocks farther forward and would probably wish they were more inboard, but to be honest I hardly ever sail with a headsail smaller than the #3 genoa. This system could probably use some fine tuning, but it was good enough for me last year, and I won races when the wind was up. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker" Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 11:27:53 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C&C 30 MK1 1979 I have the shoal draft model and have found that I'm better off not trying to point too high. As a result, the genoa track between the rail and the coming going up a couple feet forward of the bulkhead works well. However, sheeting to the toe rail works well also. For the smaller jib, I always use the rail. Pointing too high just seems a bad tradeoff with the shoal draft keel. Ron Wild Cheri C&C 30-1 STL From: Steven Tattrie via CnC-List To: cnc-list Cc: Steven Tattrie Sent: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 9:35 AM Subject: Stus-List genoa cars and tracks - C&C 30 MK1 1979 Hi everyone, I am investigating putting genoa tracks and cars on my C&C30 MK1 1979. I have a 110 and 150 head sail. Can folks racing 30's comment on what is the best configuration of tracks on a 30. Will one long track work verses separate tracks for different sails? and where on the deck would they be installed? would the 110 be sheeted inside the shrouds? when they are best used? I have been searching photos on the internet and found at least half a dozen different configurations. So I don't think will be an easy decision on where to locate. you comments will be appreciated Steve ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Bad Race Start Last Night
Watching the "full version" first minute or two, looks like the main's luff was separated from the mast, and the crew was busy gathering up the main and trying to re-feed its luff. He might have been able to run downwind on starboard tack under jib alone (don't know where that would have led), but then he gybed to port and couldn't make enough way to avoid the pier or not get tripped. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 12:44:21 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Bad Race Start Last Night Here's a nice video of it. https://youtu.be/Isufp-6fudo They looked a bit casual right before the wave. Dennis C. On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:55 PM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: https://news.google.com/search?q=redondo+beach+sailboat+crash Looks like a Capri 18. Done right: 1. All crew wearing PFDs. 2. Capsized close to beach, easing rescue. Mistakes? 1. Only had the jib up? Hard to head up under jib alone. 2. No auxiliary power? Cheers, Randy (from SoCal, where it is windy this weekend) ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Bad Race Start Last Night
https://news.google.com/search?q=redondo+beach+sailboat+crash Looks like a Capri 18. Done right: 1. All crew wearing PFDs. 2. Capsized close to beach, easing rescue. Mistakes? 1. Only had the jib up? Hard to head up under jib alone. 2. No auxiliary power? Cheers, Randy (from SoCal, where it is windy this weekend) ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Thanks Matt. I see your point w.r.t. the Spartite - you've got to get the rig tuned before fixing everything in place. I'm using a mast boot and the NGA-18 wedges from Rig-Rite ( http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/SparParts/Mast_wedges.php ), so I have more flexibility. But I still have to get the tuning right before setting the wedges in, and it seems impossible to move the mast butt after it's stepped. This year I'll center it in the box and block it in place, then put the wedges in after tuning. My mast step support rebuild project is going well but slowly. I put a few more pictures up at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E , showing the bilge after sanding and painting with neat epoxy, and showing the new GPO-3 supports. I discovered today that I need to go through another iteration of fitting before I can epoxy them in. That's ok, I can be patient. The new forward support is within a millimeter of the original's elevation both port & starboard. But I couldn't twist the new aft support in - I need to trim its "feet" more, to clear those straps of fiber suspending the keel, and then I can assess its fit prior to bonding it in. Have to take a break from all this for a week or so due to real life and the day job - sigh. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford" Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 8:39:18 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Randy: The drawing for my boat does not show perfectly plumb – that was the point. The drawing showed a slight rake. It would be easier in a drawing to draw a mast perpendicular to the side view, but the drawing for the 42 shows a slight rake. We surmised that C&C must have had a reason for expending the extraordinary effort of showing a slight rake on a drawing. By doing a little math, we were able to figure out from the drawing what that rake is, which I duplicated in the field. I’m sure it’s not perfect, but I think we got close. The reason it was so important to get it right with the Spartite plug is that once you make one, the mast is pretty much staying there. With wooden blocks at the partners, you can move things around to make adjustments, including adjusting the rake for various conditions if you want. With a Spartite plug, once it’s done it’s done. I also made Spartite chocks in the mast step box, so nothing moves from the deck down. When I’m going through 8-10 footers on Lake Erie, I like it that way. It’s Matt by the way. Hope your project is going well. MLW ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Congrats Charles on your acquisition of Destrier, and welcome to the list. I offer you the opportunity to learn from my mistakes on the mast step project and otherwise :) Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Cleverboy via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Cleverboy" Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 3:39:07 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance @ Gary and Randy, I just got Destrier, a 30-1 last year and pulled the mast over the winter. I am also rebuilding the mast step support. I have found exactly the same conditions as everyone has reported. As bad as it was, it lasted 43 years. Destrier was raced for many years but I am not really a racer. I love the boat. Absolutely rock solid. Charles Ferrari Destrier 73 C&C 30-1 City Island, NY ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Thanks Gary. You might want to just bite the bullet and do the replacement job I'm in the middle of. If I can do it, you can do it. I'll do a full write-up somewhere when I'm done. I've taken a ton of pictures. Now signing off to go epoxy my new GPO-3 supports into Grenadine's bilge, after a lot of very dusty jigsaw-cutting and belt sander refining last night and this morning. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Gary Nylander" Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2017 12:46:53 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Randy and Lee…. The tree stump that C&C designed for the 30-1 is super stiff. Pre bend is pretty much fiction. I have a 4 to 1 backstay adjuster on my split backstay and the only thing it does when I haul on it as hard as possible is stiffen the forestay. Randy, you should go with your plan and center the mast and then see how the boat sails, then adjust the foot accordingly. By the way, start by making sure the mast is centered in the boat from side to side. After being confused by the measurements and tensions on mine, I discovered the chainplates were one inch off, the starboard one being one inch closer to the rail than the port. Verified by measuring the inside of the boat as well. A few new holes in the mounting and a longer slot in the deck cured a number of issues. I have three mast supports which were all soggy, the aft two much more than the forward one. They were made up of two pieces of ¾ plywood screwed together and fiberglassed, but the glass doesn’t cover the bottom, where the water just soaks up into the wood. A lot of G-Flex drilled down into the supports and some supporting boards has helped, but I am starting to think about a gallon of Epoxy down there. Gary #593 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Thanks Lee, you haven't ruined my day at all. I do race my 30-1 and have a blast doing it. Her mast butt does appear to have some rocker. But unfortunately I don't have any information about how much (if any) pre-bend her main requires. I'd think pre-bend would be easier to achieve on a fractional rig than a masthead rig, but I could see how you might be able to get some on a masthead rig by a combination of mast butt positioning and stay tension. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Lee via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Lee" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 11:50:08 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Randy,sorry to complicate your project but there are a couple more considerations depending on just how involved and precise you want to be, If you intend to race your 30-1 {they are excellent for such} you will want to consider initial mast bend. If so the shape of the mast butt can ease the process by putting some rocker on the butt so as to control where mast compression puts pressure, fore or aft , or by shimming to achieve the same effect You can check the butt with a woodworking square.Your sailmaker can assist to determine how much prebend to use.Hope I didn't ruin your day. Lee c&c 35-3 cb Blue Point NY -Original Message- From: RANDY via CnC-List To: cnc-list Cc: RANDY Sent: Sat, Mar 25, 2017 1:27 pm Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Thank you all for the excellent responses. Matthew, figuring out what C&C's intentions were, for aft mast step elevation, is what I'm trying to do. I assume they intended for the mast to perfectly plumb when the boat is sitting on her designed waterline in perfectly calm water and calm air. Then rig tuners would set the rake from there. Of course, those aren't the conditions I'm working in, so it's all guesswork (levels are useless with the boat on the trailer). Michael, interesting point about heel at the foot of the mast. I'll check that out today. I assumed the foot of my mast is flat, and makes contact all the way around the mast box. I agree the side-to-side level is critical - from rig tuning last year, I believe Grenadine's is off (the aft end of the mast block lists to port, requiring more halyard tension to touch the starboard rail than the port rail, and I couldn't correct that via upper shroud tension without bowing the mast). That should get corrected by the new aft support, assuming I cut it and install it correctly. Rick thanks for the reminder about the owner's manual rig tuning instructions cautioning against forward rake. I follow those instructions to the letter for rig tuning, and you're exactly right, I set 8" of rake on Grenadine. Regarding my 30-kt experience, it was on June 22nd last year - see archived wind graph at http://wx.iwindsurf.com/map#39.548,-105.08,14,1,!11170,7 . We had light-to-decent wind for our race at 6:30, so I was flying all that sail. Then after the race the wind really piped up and I wanted to learn how Grenadine would behave under that press of canvas. At the moment of that 30-kt (true) gust just after 8:00, I was on starboard tack close reach, trimmed for that point of sail, going 7.6 knots according to GPS (with fixed 2-blade prop even), with five people on the rail, and my genoa tore before I got a rail in the water. That's how stiff a 30-1 is. Of course I had a hell of a lot of weather helm in those conditions, and I was within about an inch or another degree of heel of burying the rail. I've yet to learn what it takes to bury a rail on a 30-1. If Grenadine had had a folding prop at the time, I believe she could have touched 8 knots. Will find out this year :) Given all these great responses, I think I'll split the difference and cut the aft support to the elevation indicated by the dashed line in https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk . Thanks again everyone. Cheers, Randy From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Rick Brass" < rickbr...@earthlink.net > Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 9:27:38 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Randy; I could have sworn that I have seen a table that lists the initial mast rake for various C&C models built in the 70’s, but I’m not able to find it. The rig tuning information on the Photo Album, and the information in the owner’s manuals that came with my 25 mk1 and my 38 mk2 all show the same information about setting up the mast rake: On a 24, the target for initial rake is 6” measured at the gooseneck. For the 38, the target is 10”. Looking up the I dimensions and doing a little math says the initial target for your 30-1 would be 8” of rake. But the instructions indicate (and this could have changed
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Thanks Josh, I appreciate the point. The fact is that Grenadine's rig is already changed from the original intended geometry because of the C&C construction flaw of using plywood mast step supports. The 44-year-old supports that came out of Grenadine's bilge are incredibly fragile - delaminating, splintering, etc. It's a wonder they held the mast up. It appears that deterioration of the aft support depressed the aft end of the mast step by 1/4" to 1/2", and tilted the mast to port enough to be noticeable during side-to-side rig tuning. If anything my efforts will hopefully restore the originally-intended geometry. The elevation of the forward support won't change - it was in better shape than the aft support. The elevation of the aft support will be about 1/4" higher than current, which I believe should restore it to the original elevation as best I can guess. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Josh Muckley" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 12:29:31 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Be very careful before changing anything with the original geometry. There are a lot of factors involved. The height of the maststep will affect the height at the partners (deck) and every stay, not just the headstay. There are deck ties which hold the mast to the deck, they will be good guides as to the appropriate height of the step. The mast typically pivots at the partners so moving the foot makes a big change to the head and shrouds. Our rigs are not typically swept but these factors are even more exasperated on swept spreader rigs. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Mar 25, 2017 3:12 AM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- Seeking your input here. I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild project a la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm . Lots of pictures of the project at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E . I'll be cutting new supports from laminated GPO-3 slabs Saturday night or Sunday morning. Before installing the new supports, I have to decide on the elevation of the aft support. Of course I took careful elevation measurements from the cabin sole before removing the original supports. But the question is, what was the original shape of the top of the aft support? I believe the middle of Grenadine's aft support, under the mast step block, was compressed down from its original elevation due to a combination of weakness in the support and standing rigging tension (especially backstay). Have a look at the pictures and you can clearly see what I mean, e.g. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTLXZuXzd1T1pkR28 . This compression has the effect of pitching the mast step aft, thereby moving the masthead aft, thereby increasing weather helm (which I've definitely noticed under enough wind and sail - it was strong under full main and #2 genoa in 30 kts, not surprisingly). However I also believe that the original elevation of the aft support may have been carefully tuned for helm balance, prior to compression below the mast step block due to weak wood and standing rigging tension. The reason this elevation question matters so much is because, using trigonometry, I can calculate the distance by which different elevations of the aft support will move the masthead forward or aft, which in turn will affect helm balance. Each quarter inch of aft support elevation difference could move the masthead about three inches I believe. The last picture ( https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk ) in the Google Drive folder linked above shows the templates from which I'll cut the new supports, traced from the original supports removed from Grenadine's bilge. I hypothesize that the dashed line I drew at the top of the aft support template may have been the aft support's original elevation. I'm halfways tempted to split the difference and cut the new aft support to have that elevation. Of course, I could be full of crap, because I tune the mast rake using the stays after all, which probably influences helm balance more than mast step pitch. And of course I can control the sail selection and sail trim, which probably influence helm balance more than mast step pitch. However, for a given sail selection close-hauled, with neither the backstay nor forestay over-tensioned, the mast step pitch would certainly influence the masthead position and therefore the combined center of effort of the sail plan. What say ye? Does anyone out there know if the top of the original aft mast step support on a 30-1 was flat all the way across, or did it come from the factory with a little elevation drop to tune helm balance? I
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Thanks Michael I will use your technique when tuning my rig side-to-side this spring. Regarding the mast butt, Grenadine's does appear able to rock fore-and-aft in the mast box - I checked that out today. Couldn't tell exactly how; the mast bottom seems flat. But it definitely rocks in the box. Interesting idea to move the butt fore-and-aft to adjust helm balance. Seems easier to do that with rake via backstay & forestay tension. Last year I wasn't paying close enough attention when we stepped the mast, and the butt wasn't centered fore-and-aft. This year I plan to center it at stepping time, and tune from there. I'm not interested in the exciting effects of lee helm :) Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Michael Brown" Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 12:27:45 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance > requiring more halyard tension to touch the starboard rail than the port rail When I am centering the mast side to side I use the main halyard, a stiff bungee cord and a tape measure. On either side to start with I hook the bungee to the halyard shackle and through the toe rail, then tighten the halyard until I get significant force on the bungee. I measure from the top of the toe rail to a point on the halyard shackle, then move the set to the other side and measure again. Half of the difference is how far I have to adjust to, and the force of the bungee is more consistent then me trying to guess how hard to pull. You can get pretty close without having to switch sides by calculating the target distance. The boat may shift a bit, the mast step compress etc so a switch at the end is required. The mast rake advice in the C&C manual is a good starting point. You do want to confirm it is right by sailing close hauled in 10 - 12 kts TWS and getting slight weather helm. How much is a preference but if you are fighting the wheel it is slowing the boat down. I have an adjustable forestay ( normal turnbuckle ) so I can dial it in without having to move the mast butt. I think people leave a small amount or weather helm so that if you do get surprised by a gust it may round you up a bit and help depower. Uncontrolled lee helm will force you down and make it harder to steer, along with other exciting effects. I see from your posting that the aft girder has significant "wings" which will extend side to side in the boat. When I rebuilt Windburn's mast step I had similar smaller ones but was not able to fit the piece in place with them. If the girder was only 1/4" thick like a cardboard template it would go in but the thicker part did not. Despite having snow this morning I know spring is coming ... Michael Brown Windburn C&C 30-1 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
tep so the mast was vertical – or nearly so -for an initial position and then adjust the rake with fore and aft stays per the C&C instructions. Rick Brass Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 3:12 AM To: cnc-list Cc: RANDY Subject: Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance Listers- Seeking your input here. I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild project a la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm . Lots of pictures of the project at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E . I'll be cutting new supports from laminated GPO-3 slabs Saturday night or Sunday morning. Before installing the new supports, I have to decide on the elevation of the aft support. Of course I took careful elevation measurements from the cabin sole before removing the original supports. But the question is, what was the original shape of the top of the aft support? I believe the middle of Grenadine's aft support, under the mast step block, was compressed down from its original elevation due to a combination of weakness in the support and standing rigging tension (especially backstay). Have a look at the pictures and you can clearly see what I mean, e.g. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTLXZuXzd1T1pkR28. This compression has the effect of pitching the mast step aft, thereby moving the masthead aft, thereby increasing weather helm (which I've definitely noticed under enough wind and sail - it was strong under full main and #2 genoa in 30 kts, not surprisingly). However I also believe that the original elevation of the aft support may have been carefully tuned for helm balance, prior to compression below the mast step block due to weak wood and standing rigging tension. The reason this elevation question matters so much is because, using trigonometry, I can calculate the distance by which different elevations of the aft support will move the masthead forward or aft, which in turn will affect helm balance. Each quarter inch of aft support elevation difference could move the masthead about three inches I believe. The last picture (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk) in the Google Drive folder linked above shows the templates from which I'll cut the new supports, traced from the original supports removed from Grenadine's bilge. I hypothesize that the dashed line I drew at the top of the aft support template may have been the aft support's original elevation. I'm halfways tempted to split the difference and cut the new aft support to have that elevation. Of course, I could be full of crap, because I tune the mast rake using the stays after all, which probably influences helm balance more than mast step pitch. And of course I can control the sail selection and sail trim, which probably influence helm balance more than mast step pitch. However, for a given sail selection close-hauled, with neither the backstay nor forestay over-tensioned, the mast step pitch would certainly influence the masthead position and therefore the combined center of effort of the sail plan. What say ye? Does anyone out there know if the top of the original aft mast step support on a 30-1 was flat all the way across, or did it come from the factory with a little elevation drop to tune helm balance? I'll be committing an assumption about that to a GPO-3 slab with my jigsaw in the next day or two. Thanks in advance, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Mast Step Pitch & Helm Balance
Listers- Seeking your input here. I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild project a la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm . Lots of pictures of the project at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTSzRLbFo0NDl6U1E . I'll be cutting new supports from laminated GPO-3 slabs Saturday night or Sunday morning. Before installing the new supports, I have to decide on the elevation of the aft support. Of course I took careful elevation measurements from the cabin sole before removing the original supports. But the question is, what was the original shape of the top of the aft support? I believe the middle of Grenadine's aft support, under the mast step block, was compressed down from its original elevation due to a combination of weakness in the support and standing rigging tension (especially backstay). Have a look at the pictures and you can clearly see what I mean, e.g. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTLXZuXzd1T1pkR28. This compression has the effect of pitching the mast step aft, thereby moving the masthead aft, thereby increasing weather helm (which I've definitely noticed under enough wind and sail - it was strong under full main and #2 genoa in 30 kts, not surprisingly). However I also believe that the original elevation of the aft support may have been carefully tuned for helm balance, prior to compression below the mast step block due to weak wood and standing rigging tension. The reason this elevation question matters so much is because, using trigonometry, I can calculate the distance by which different elevations of the aft support will move the masthead forward or aft, which in turn will affect helm balance. Each quarter inch of aft support elevation difference could move the masthead about three inches I believe. The last picture (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3hRNmZoMUU1MFk) in the Google Drive folder linked above shows the templates from which I'll cut the new supports, traced from the original supports removed from Grenadine's bilge. I hypothesize that the dashed line I drew at the top of the aft support template may have been the aft support's original elevation. I'm halfways tempted to split the difference and cut the new aft support to have that elevation. Of course, I could be full of crap, because I tune the mast rake using the stays after all, which probably influences helm balance more than mast step pitch. And of course I can control the sail selection and sail trim, which probably influence helm balance more than mast step pitch. However, for a given sail selection close-hauled, with neither the backstay nor forestay over-tensioned, the mast step pitch would certainly influence the masthead position and therefore the combined center of effort of the sail plan. What say ye? Does anyone out there know if the top of the original aft mast step support on a 30-1 was flat all the way across, or did it come from the factory with a little elevation drop to tune helm balance? I'll be committing an assumption about that to a GPO-3 slab with my jigsaw in the next day or two. Thanks in advance, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Removing Old Butyl Tape
Listers- Any tips on solvents or techniques for removing old butyl tape used to bed deck hardware? Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations?
rs of the boat can run the engine to charge the batteries to power the pumps until the boat is safe or the gas runs out and the batteries deplete (in which case the boat will sink). When the boat is unattended, I'll leave the pumps in automatic mode and ensure they're wired to have power even when everything else is switched off. Grenadine is wired for shore power and has a 110V battery charger so, in theory, if she's plugged in to shore power and suffers a hull-flooding event, her bilge pumps could run forever. If she's not plugged in to shore power and suffers a hull-flooding event, I'll have to trust that someone notices water streaming out of the discharge port and calls me before her batteries deplete (she has a solar charging system too). If I'm *really* worried about that last case, I could install a bilge alarm and annoy the whole marina to save my boat. So, that's how it breaks down for me. This whole matter has dominated my thoughts for about 24 hours now. When I'm done, I'll have met David Pascoe's recommendations: three pumps total, and redundant electric pumps, with an overall capacity of 4120 GPH (the Whale Gusher 10 has a capacity of 1020 GPH at 70 strokes per minute). Incidentally I'm in the middle of the mast step rebuild project right now, a la http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm . My rig has been down and off the boat all winter so I could do that project and a chainplate resealing project. That's why I'm redoing all the bilge plumbing now too, and torque-ing the keel bolts. I want to get all those bilge-related projects done, so I can leave the rig up in future offseasons, and have confidence that the pump under the mast step is new and reliable :) Pictures of these projects at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTaUlpUkZJWGt5RVk . Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Gary Nylander" Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 9:05:11 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? As I share the same design (30-1) with you and have that really deep sump right under the mast, I have agonized over this issue a bunch. First, you have to get all the water out or your sump will always be wet and your mast step will degrade. Second, if you come up with a good way to install a vented loop, let me know. I have a check valve in the line from the Rule pump which is in the bottom of the sump. I know the limitations, so I have my pump on a manual switch, so it won’t drain the battery. It is marginal. I am going to add a diaphragm pump to the system and have the intake tube in the sump and the pump under the dinette seat. The vented loop and discharge - ???. If I run it back to the stern or aft quarter like my Whale hand pump and Rule, then a bunch of water will come back to the pump when it cycles off. I am trying to figure out how to run the discharge into the head area above the holding tank, put a vented loop right under the deck and then exhaust through the side, but that may allow water intrusion when heeled over. Still measuring. This probably won’t happen until next winter – many other projects this time plus the mast is still up and I may pull it next year. Gary #593 From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via CnC-List Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 1:41 AM To: cnc-list Cc: RANDY Subject: Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? Revisiting this thread, as I came across a few interesting articles today: * http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm * http://www.docksidereports.com/bilge_water_blues.htm * http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/93937-bilge-pump-non-return-valve.html I found those googling about bilge pumps and check valves, as I'm in the middle of overhauling Grenadines' bilge pumping system which currently has check valves in it. Then it occurred to me: maybe I ought to think about the design principles for my bilge pumping system :) Instead of just refreshing what's there with new components implementing the same design. The articles were good for provoking thought about that. I came to some conclusions that seem right for my situation. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "David via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: "cnc-list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "David" < davidrisc...@msn.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 3:46:40 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? If you have a catastrophic failure good batteries and luck (attentive neighbors?) will save her on the mooring. If you have bilge pump counter on an automatic telling you the
cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Exhibit A, for the bilge pump thread :) Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Bernard Bauman via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Bernard Bauman" <2bbau...@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 8:40:03 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Sad craigslisted C&C An opportunity to buy a great-brand sailboat at a negative price! Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab® S Original message From: Dreuge via CnC-List Date: 3/22/17 4:34 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: Dreuge Subject: Stus-List Sad craigslisted C&C I just came across a real sad C&C 25 listed on Craigslist https://panamacity.craigslist.org/boa/6032234808.html - Paul E. 1981 C&C 38 Landfall S/V Johanna Rose Ft Walton, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations?
Revisiting this thread, as I came across a few interesting articles today: * http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bilge_pumps.htm * http://www.docksidereports.com/bilge_water_blues.htm * http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/93937-bilge-pump-non-return-valve.html I found those googling about bilge pumps and check valves, as I'm in the middle of overhauling Grenadines' bilge pumping system which currently has check valves in it. Then it occurred to me: maybe I ought to think about the design principles for my bilge pumping system :) Instead of just refreshing what's there with new components implementing the same design. The articles were good for provoking thought about that. I came to some conclusions that seem right for my situation. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "David via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "David" Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 3:46:40 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? If you have a catastrophic failure good batteries and luck (attentive neighbors?) will save her on the mooring. If you have bilge pump counter on an automatic telling you the pattern of pumps per time period left unattended, you may see a problem before it gets out of hand. And hardwired to battery with fuse... Cheap insurance. David F. Risch (401) 419-4650 (cell) From: CnC-List on behalf of David Knecht via CnC-List Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 3:45 PM To: CnC CnC discussion list Cc: David Knecht Subject: Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? I am curious about the logic of this. My boat is on a mooring unattended for days at a time. I have a manual bilge pump that I turn on if necessary. If I am not on the boat and a serious leak develops, the pump would run until the battery is dead and then the boat would sink. So under what circumstances would you expect an automatic bilge pump to save the boat? Perhaps a slow leak? Also, I normally turn off all the boat power when I leave. If you have an automatic switch, do you have the switch wired directly to the battery, or do you leave you electrical system on when you are not on the boat? Dave Aries 1990 C&C 34+ New London, CT On Mar 8, 2017, at 3:31 PM, Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Remarkably, my boat was not equipped with an automatic bilge pump, but instead has an external pump located near the nav station operated by a circuit breaker switch. I recently purchased a Water Witch for the bilge and a three-way switch for for the circuit breaker panel. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Prop Pullers
Listers- What's your favorite prop puller? Or at least, which one / what kind would you recommend to pull a fixed two-blade 12" prop off a 7/8" SAE tapered shaft with 5/8" x 11 UNC thread? Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Yacht club weather station
Nice work Dennis! Very cool. And that's a good-looking yacht club building. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "CnClist" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:48:18 PM Subject: Stus-List Yacht club weather station I got a crazy bug a few months ago to install a weather station at my yacht club, Pontchartrain Yacht Club on the north shore of Lake Pontchartrain at Mandeville, LA. There were no wind stations anywhere close to my club. There are some wind data/forecasts available through premium wind services or personal weather stations further inland. I'm sure some of you might have already done this but for those who haven't it's really easy to install a weather station, hook it to your club's WiFi and then link it to Weather Underground's wundermap.com . Once you go live on wundermap, WU also provides a webpage where you select your weather station and it builds the HTML code that you can copy and paste into your club's website. Real time wind data will be available on the website. I tagged a few of the club racers for some $$$ and bought this station: http://www.ambientweather.com/amws1000wifi.html This weekend we installed it on the club flagpole which stands fairly unobstructed in front of our club on the lakefront. Pics of me and a fellow member working on the install are here: https://www.facebook.com/PontYC/ (I'm the idiot without the hat!) The station communicates via RF to a console which we installed in our bar and connected to the club WiFi. The race committee can easily look at it for skippers meetings. Connecting it to the club WiFi and to wundermap.com was easy and straightforward. To see our station go here: https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=KLAMANDE128#history Scroll down to the neat graphs! Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 Mandeville, LA ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List putting teek hand rails back together - tips
Hi Steve, I'll be fastening Grenadine's new exterior handrails in a couple weeks. She's a 30-1, hull #7, built September 1972. I'm pretty sure her old handrails were original, and they were fastened with screws through the cabin top from the inside. No bungs on the exterior handrails. I drilled out the bungs from the interior handrails, which covered a long screw fastening both the interior and exterior handrails. Then, under each interior handrail base, there were two more shorter screws fastening the exterior handrails. I've got pictures of the project at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTc093OExfMGRBX1E . I know that doesn't address your specific question. But maybe you could consider changing fasteners. Instead of using bolts and nuts, maybe you could switch to using just screws from the inside? You could fill and bung the holes in the exterior handrails as necessary. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Steven Tattrie via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Steven Tattrie" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 10:45:40 AM Subject: Stus-List putting teek hand rails back together - tips Hello all, I removed teak hand rails from my C&C30 MK1 1979 last fall. There is an inside and outside rail that are both fastened together by the same bolt and nut (inside nut). Both ends are recessed into the rail with teak plug to fill the hole. I haven't tried to install them back yet however, I am wondering how I can hold the nut on the inside so that it does not turn keeping in mind that it is recessed into the wood and a socket/ wrench will not hold it (fit in the hole). Any tips on this process!! Steve ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Best source for Butyl Sealer?
I bought a 20' roll of INCOM butyl tape from West Marine for $25. The stuff is made in Ancaster, Ontario. https://www.westmarine.com/buy/incom--butyl-caulking-tape--P015730286?recordNum=8 Can't say I swear by it or any other brand yet; this will be my first time using it. I'm bedding Grenadine's new exterior handrails, and her refinished traveler bar, with it in the coming weeks. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Dreuge via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Dreuge" Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 10:19:03 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Best source for Butyl Sealer? Sailrite also sells marine grade butyl tape made by Dehco at $10/roll. http://www.sailrite.com/Butyl-Tape-Bedding-Deck-Hardware-Sealant-Video-Demo - Paul E. 1981 C&C 38 Landfall S/V Johanna Rose Fort Walton, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ On Mar 21, 2017, at 12:00 PM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:14:47 -0400 From: Bruce Whitmore < bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Best source for Butyl Sealer? Message-ID: < bc0eb62c-4593-4f10-b585-db27f7f3c...@sbcglobal.net > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all, I am a big fan of butyl sealant tape on deck hardware as many of you have said in the past. Yet, there are many formulations, some of which work better than others for our applications. Which one do you swear by, and can you please post a link? Thanks!!! 1994 C&C 37/40+ Astralis Bruce 847.404.5092 Please forgive any typos as this was sent from my iPhone. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List What is this Fitting?
Thanks Ken, very interesting. Does your friend still have the factory charcoal barbeque? I'd be interested to see a picture, or possibly even acquire one if anyone knows where I could get the original item. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Ken Heaton via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Ken Heaton" Sent: Friday, March 17, 2017 3:19:31 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List What is this Fitting? Post socket for a factory charcoal barbecue. Rectangular, porcelain coated steel. At least that is what it is on a friend's C&C 35 Mk.I Ken H. On 17 March 2017 at 01:23, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: This is on the short afterdeck of my 30-1, port side. It's not for an ensign staff; that fitting is more centerline on the afterdeck. You can see it's got a little keyhole. PS. Don't worry, I'll be shining up that brightwork soon :) Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List What is this Fitting?
This is on the short afterdeck of my 30-1, port side. It's not for an ensign staff; that fitting is more centerline on the afterdeck. You can see it's got a little keyhole. PS. Don't worry, I'll be shining up that brightwork soon :) Thanks, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List A greatful thank you
Enjoy the rum Stu! And thanks for cncphotoalbum & cnc-list! Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Stu via CnC-List" To: "C&C Email List" Cc: "Stu" Sent: Monday, March 13, 2017 4:50:03 PM Subject: Stus-List A greatful thank you I cannot begin to say enough thank you’s to everyone who made a financial contribution to the Photo Album and this list. It certainly paid the bills and enough to buy a couple bottles of rum. Again, THANK YOU everyone. Stu This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Man Crosses Atlantic on a Paddle Board
Awesome Bill! You and I and the other guy in your marina may have the only C&Cs in US Sailing's Area F. I'm up in Colorado with C&C 30 MK I hull #7. Pretty sure I've got the only C&C in all of Colorado. Bought her about a year ago and did many of those same new-owner updates. Now I'm into heavier projects like rebuilding mast step supports etc. Welcome! Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Bill Dakin" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "RANDY" , "Graham Young" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 2:40:49 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Man Crosses Atlantic on a Paddle Board Made me think of Eddie Aikau. 'Would Eddie Go...?" Maybe not across the Atlantic even for him. Back on topic.. I'm close to wrapping up a minor new-owner update and cleaning of our recently purchased 25MKII. All that is left is an Interlux sprayed on bootstripe, buff and wax of the smooth area of the topsides, running rig install, clean all the sails, lube the Edson steerage, and splash her. Hopefully the saildrive, #1 doesn't leak, #2 it runs, and #3 runs well. One of our headsails is a storm jib, a tiny little thing for sure. Another can be reefed, the others are 115 and 150. And two mains. Finally, in a marina of hundreds of sailboats, there is only one other C&C, then ours in two weeks. They are very rare here in Texas. Bill Dakin Fairview, Texas On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 3:05 PM, Graham Young via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: You're welcome. I thought the same...or pretty crazy, or both. I couldn't decide. Just like a surfer ;) On Friday, March 10, 2017 3:22 PM, RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > wrote: I've gotta say, that's pretty frickin' impressive. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Man Crosses Atlantic on a Paddle Board
I've gotta say, that's pretty frickin' impressive. Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Graham Young via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Graham Young" Sent: Friday, March 10, 2017 7:09:44 AM Subject: Stus-List Man Crosses Atlantic on a Paddle Board World-first as man crosses Atlantic solo on paddle board World-first as man crosses Atlantic solo on paddle board South African watersport pro Chris Bertish has just nailed a world first: he's crossed the Atlantic solo, un... ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations?
I'm replacing my bilge pump and plumbing right now. Just last night bought an 1100gph automatic Rule pump to replace the same (age unknown) that came with the boat. Didn't do much research but was swayed by a 20%-off sale on Rule pumps ending yesterday at West Marine. My pump is wired to a switch by which I can manually turn it on, turn it off, or leave it in automatic mode. My deepest sump, where I want the pump, is under the mast step and unreachable for servicing without taking the rig down. So I want the peace of mind of knowing there's a new pump in there. Last year I rebuilt my manual diaphragm bilge pump, and this year I'm replacing its intake hose from that same lowest sump, because the hose has some duct-taped leaks where it passes under the Atomic 4. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Rick Rohwer via CnC-List" To: "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" Cc: "Rick Rohwer" Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 11:39:27 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? Mine is also a Rule (I think the capacity is around 650gpm) with electronic switch, redundant with another of the same in the shallow sump under the steps. They are both automatic or on with switch at nav table. Everything ultimately drains into the deep sump on my boat as well using (just learned vocabulary, thanks Josh) limber holes! Cheers Rick Paikea 37+ Poulsbo, WA On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 9:35 AM, tprice--- via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: I use a Water Witch solid state switch to redundant Rule 2000 and 500. https://waterwitchinc.com/ TP Timothy B. Price tpr...@ingamemedia.com 917.755.6145 AIM: timbprice, Yahoo: timothyprice_98, SKYPE: Timothy B Price, Twitter: @NYC10075 From: Bruce Whitmore < bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > Reply-To: Bruce Whitmore < bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net > Date: Wednesday, March 8, 2017 at 9:56 AM To: C&C List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Subject: Stus-List Automatic Bilge Pump? Recommendations? Hello all, We have a deep, but small bilge just forward of the mast on our CYC 37/40+, and I need to replace the bilge pump. It had a Rule 1100 GPH automatic pump (rather than one that has a separate float switch). It seems like a pretty small area, and I would like to continue to use a pump with a relatively high output and a built-in float switch. I would prefer not to use the technology that turns on the pump to test for water, as there is very little water getting into this deep bilge, and I don't want to use power every few minutes for a test. I am also concerned that the Rule pumps have been getting pretty poor reviews lately. Anyone have a recommendation? Thanks! Bruce 1994 C&C 37/40+, "Astralis" Madiera Beach, FL (847) 404-5092 (mobile) bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation?
Because Dennis said so, in his post yesterday :) Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Patrick Davin via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" , "andy stafford" Cc: "Patrick Davin" Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:17:35 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation? Just curious, why would you want to do 5 coats of Cetol followed by 3 coats of Cetol Gloss? The instructions on the can recommend 3 coats followed by 1 gloss, or 2 gloss if 1 gloss isn't satisfactory. But 8 coats is something I've only ever heard of for varnish, and the lower # of coats required with Cetol is one of its primary advantages. 4 coats on handrails last year took me quite a while, so I can't imagine wanting to do 8! -Patrick On Wed, Mar 1, 2017 at 1:54 PM, < cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > wrote: From: RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > To: cnc-list < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: Bcc: Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2017 18:53:08 + (UTC) Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation? Thank you all for the responses and recommendations. For better or worse I've decided to go with Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak followed by Sikkens Cetol Gloss; probably five coats of the former and three coats of the latter initially. Factors in my decision included recommendations from this list, expected look, reported durability, price (my second choice, Awlwood MA, is a comparatively expensive system), and effort to use properly. This season I will also clean up other exterior teak besides the new handrails, and treat it with the same Cetol treatment after cleaning. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation?
Thank you all for the responses and recommendations. For better or worse I've decided to go with Sikkens Cetol Natural Teak followed by Sikkens Cetol Gloss; probably five coats of the former and three coats of the latter initially. Factors in my decision included recommendations from this list, expected look, reported durability, price (my second choice, Awlwood MA, is a comparatively expensive system), and effort to use properly. This season I will also clean up other exterior teak besides the new handrails, and treat it with the same Cetol treatment after cleaning. I did look at the Jamestown Distributors survey results ( https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/surveyMap.do?surveyId=102 ) and there was a recent positive response from a Sikkens user in my area (an arid, high-altitude, UV-intense environment). I also read this West Advisor article on wood finishes: https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Wood-Finishes, and read Don Casey's chapter on wood finishes, which is intensive on varnishing and makes only passing mention of "synthetic wood finishes" e.g. Cetol. The truth is that anything will look better than the old handrails, which were doubtless original (45 years old) and not well-maintained and breaking apart. The main question is how will the finish on the new handrails look, how long will it last, and how much effort will it take including regular maintenance. I put some pictures of Grenadine's new handrails at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTc093OExfMGRBX1E (the last two pictures in that folder). These were made by Jerrod Milton on my crew who is a very skilled woodworker and who has a very complete wood shop in his garage. I found an 11'x6"x1" teak plank for $200 at a local specialty wood store, and was able to non-destructively remove the old starboard handrail (pictured) to use as template. Jerrod ripped the plank in two lengthwise, stacked the two halves and pinned them together with small dowels where the cutouts would be, traced the pattern onto the stack from the old handrail template, cut two symmetric rails from the stacked half-planks at once on a band saw, then routed the edges on a router table and sanded the rails with a spindle sander. The new handrails will be nice and beefy, and we'll install them after finishing with stout screws pulled tight and butyl tape under the bases. Thanks again everyone. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Joel Aronson via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Joel Aronson" Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 7:12:55 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation? Jamestown distributors has a varnish survey. Might be worth a look. On The Office I used Cetol Natural Teak and was generally happy with it. On Atlantis I started with Interlux Schooner Gold, but have switched to Epiphanes. I'm using the RapidClear because you can recoat every 5-6 hours without sanding. It takes a couple days to harden, but I'm liking it so far. Joel On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Danny Haughey via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: I've done both sickens and epiphanies on two different boats. Other than the time between coats, I dont see the the benefit to sickens. It seemed softer and less deep a finish than the varnish. As far as upkeep, a couple of coats a year on either product seems a wash. I'd go with the varnish myself. Although, I didn't do this on the new handrails on my last boat, I think I might coat new wood with epoxy first then 7 or 8 coats of epiphanies. I did that on the new hatch boards of my last boat and was pleasantly surprised with the results! I made them out of some marine plywood I had left over from a project on a previous boat and I got a lot of compliments on those hatch boards! Lol Danny Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device Original message From: RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Date: 2/28/17 2:53 PM (GMT-05:00) To: cnc-list < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: RANDY < randy.staff...@comcast.net > Subject: Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation? Listers- Grenadine's new exterior handrails are ready for finish and installation. Wanted to see if any of you have a preferred varnish for exterior teak. I'm looking for a clear varnish with UV protection. Cheers, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wi
Stus-List Exterior Teak Varnish Recommendation?
Listers- Grenadine's new exterior handrails are ready for finish and installation. Wanted to see if any of you have a preferred varnish for exterior teak. I'm looking for a clear varnish with UV protection. Cheers, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List New (old) C&C 35 Mk I - Water Ingress
Hi Tom, A gallon of water per week seems like a lot! Especially since the boat is shrink-wrapped. Are you having much snow or rain in NY this winter? One way water might be coming in is down the shrouds and down the chainplates, assuming the rig is up and the shrink-wrap seal around the shrouds is imperfect. When I bought my 30-1 a year ago I could tell from water damage inside that the chainplates were leaking, and I'm in the middle of a project to re-seal them right now. You could take a washable marker and trace around the inside of the hull just under the deck/hull joint, and trace around the bottom of the chainplates. After a few weeks, if you see the marker line running down, you'll know where at least some of the water is coming in. I did that on my boat and it confirmed the chainplate leak. Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Thomas Delaney via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Thomas Delaney" Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 8:27:36 AM Subject: Stus-List New (old) C&C 35 Mk I - Water Ingress Hello listers, In December I finalized the purchase of my first keelboat, a C&C 35 Mk I, after receiving an extremely thorough and detailed list of items to survey from Joe Della Barba. Joe, thanks again for your help! The previous owner of the boat was a local racing legend who ran a marina near Glen Island, NY. He had been giving me advice on readying the boat for her new life on a mooring after spending the last four decades in a slip adjacent to his houseboat. Unfortunately, he passed away last weekend. One of the questions I had yet to broach was the accumulation of water in the bilge. The boat has been on the hard, shrinkwrapped, for three years. I've been pumping the bilge dry every two-four weeks, and it seems to be about 2-4 gallons of water as measured by a big plastic bucket. I'm not sure where the water is coming from. Apart from the bilge, water is pooling in the forward-most storage compartment under the port settee. My first instinct is to have a friend on deck hold the screws on the toerails and stanchion bases while I slightly tighten the nuts below deck and see if the water ingress stops. Does that make sense? Is there a different, better course of action I should take at this time? Does anyone know offhand what size socket I'll need? Thanks in advance, Tom --- Snow Goose C&C 35 Mk I City Island, NY ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List UCCG documentation warning going around
Dave I am glad to hear that. I wish the "U.S. VESSEL DOCUMENTATION" notice hadn't arrived in my mail first. Incidentally the link below appears to be broken; I can't find any such article on cruisersnet.net. But it's interesting, because somebody else must have gotten burned and posted about it there. The only place I've posted about it is here. It makes me wonder if U.S. Vessel Documentation threatened cruisersnet.net and / or the author of that article with defamation, and bullied them into taking the article down. For the record I am not worried about my own liability for defamation if U.S. Vessel Documentation were to threaten or bring a suit against me for it. I don't believe U.S. Vessel Documentation as a plaintiff would be able to show, as required, that the statements I made (that it is deceitful and predatory) are false. Moreover I believe my statements are protected by "qualified privilege", i.e. my statements were made in good faith, and on a subject matter in which I have an interest, and to persons having a corresponding interest, and without malice. But, having said all that, Stu, if you're reading this, and if you're worried about legal exposure, it's OK with me if you delete these threads. I think they have served their purpose. I wouldn't want any harm to come to Stu and / or cncphotoalbum.com as a result of these threads. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "David Kaseler via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "David Kaseler" , "Dreuge" Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 3:04:24 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List UCCG documentation warning going around I received Document renewal notices from both the USCG and "U.S. VESSEL DOCUMENTATION" both on the same day in the US mail. Thanks to this list I quickly knew what was up and have renewed via the USCG notice. Thanks, Dave. 1976 C&C 33 SLY Sent from my iPad On Feb 10, 2017, at 1:19 PM, Dreuge via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: It is good to see the word getting around. I just received a link to the warning notice below in an email from the SALTY SOUTHEAST CRUISERS’ NET. http://cruisersnet.net/alert-to-all-us-coast-guard-documented-vessel-owners/ - Paul E. 1981 C&C 38 Landfall S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL http://svjohannarose.blogspot.com/ ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
As fate would have it, my official USCG NVDC renewal notice arrived in today's mail, two mail days after the bogus one arrived from "U.S. Vessel Documentation". This whole drama would have been avoided if the arrival order of those two letters had been reversed, but I would not be the least bit surprised if it is part of the conscious strategy of that government imposter company (as the Federal Trade Commission calls such scams) to beat the USCG NVDC to the punch. I've posted a scan of the official USCG NVDC renewal notice to my Google Drive at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeU1HcDZKTWdiQzA . Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 8:46:49 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company Hopefully, this thread has saved some boat owner(s) some money. What better way to say thanks than to make a contribution to Stu's list. :) Dennis C. ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
I'd guess the United States Coast Guard's National Vessel Documentation Center is understaffed, which affects its turnaround time. It took them about two months to turn around my application for an "Exchange of Certificate of Documentation" when I bought my boat a year ago. But I found the people there to be very professional and helpful. The Coast Guard is a branch of the military, so I assume the NVDC staff is not civilian. The people with whom I've spoken on the phone there were Coast Guard officers. They process about a dozen different kinds of applications, and appear to prioritize by application type. Commercial vessels appear to be higher priority than recreational vessels. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "henry evans via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "henry evans" , "Ron Ricci" Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 6:28:09 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company One can only guess how many government bureaucrats it takes to manage this mess ? Hank Evans M/V Queen Ann's Revenge On Sunday, February 5, 2017 4:05 PM, Ron Ricci via CnC-List wrote: The whole Vessel Documentation process is a total mess. When I first purchased Patriot it took months to get a COD in my name. The website had a place that actually showed how many months they were behind in getting out paperwork. At least then it was free. Now for $26.00 you get a renewal application in the mail to sign. It tell you to pay the $26. I signed the renewal , addressed the envelope and started writing a note to my wife asking for a check. There was nothing on the form to indicating who to make the check out to. I went on line, started typing “National Vessel Documentation Center” in the Google search box. After getting half way through the second word, Google completed all four words. The first listed entity was the ‘scam’ website. I found the USCG.mil website and payed on line. It did not appear that this actually renewed my COD so I emailed the renewal and payment info. Maybe this could be sub-contracted out to Amazon, UPS or FedEx. They can handle stuff like this. A simple email reminder and online renewal is achievable! Regards, Ron Ron Ricci S/V Patriot C&C 37+ Bristol, RI ron.ri...@1968.usna.com ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
You are correct Josh that the site displays an obscured disclaimer in tiny font at the very bottom of its pages, where you wouldn't normally scroll, that they are not the USCG NVDC. HOWEVER, the company behind this site makes *so such disclaimer whatsoever* in the unsolicited letters it sends to vessel owners - see the letter I received at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeU1HcDZKTWdiQzA . That is deceitful and unscrupulous. And you CAN pay for COD renewal online at the real USCG NVDC - see https://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/, left-hand navigation menu, heading "Order Products Online:". I went through that process on Friday, spending another $26, in hopes that U.S. Vessel Documentation would cancel the renewal order I placed with them, which they won't because they're predatory. The reason I got duped by the scam is because U.S. Vessel Documentation's unsolicited "Vessel Renewal Courtesy Notice" letter arrived first. I've yet to receive any reminder notice from the real USCG NVDC, though it's been on my mind to expect one based on something I remember reading when I first got my COD (which is in my safe deposit box; I intend to retrieve it and re-read that promise of a reminder). Yes, U.S. Vessel Documentation is providing a service. The same service you can get for a fraction of the cost, online from the real USCG NVDC, with no additional value provided by U.S. Vessel Documentation for the multiple of the actual cost. U.S. Vessel Documentation is attempting to appear to consumers as the real USCG NVDC, and is ripping consumers off. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List" To: "C&C List" Cc: "Josh Muckley" Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 10:41:10 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company Nobody likes getting fooled or taken advantage of. Good on you guys for warning one another and the rest of the list. However, there are lots of 3rd party "documentation specialists". This site doesn't falsify who they are AND includes a disclosure about who they are and what they do. For the past 5 years of my documentation the USCG NVDC has sent me a renewal notice near the end of each year, listed the means of renewing the documentation, provided a due date, and listed the cost. A few years ago the price went from $5 to $26. I expect this practice and price to continue into the future. IIRC there is currently no way to pay via credit card or file online so each year I dust off the check book and write another single check, sign and return the form to NVDC via snail mail. The only change I've heard of possibly coming in the future is a 3 year documentation but as of yet that has not been implemented. Good luck on your quest to punish this company for "predatory" or "deceitful" practices but the company is simply providing a service. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Feb 5, 2017 12:15 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: According to https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/CBS/SearchResults?SearchType=CORP&SearchCriteria=U.S.+Vessel+Documentation&SearchSubType=Keyword this company is only one year old. Its principals are John Soria and Maria Carlos of Long Beach, CA (husband and wife, it would appear from https://www.facebook.com/captainjohnsoria and https://www.facebook.com/maria.carlos.5268 ). John Soria is also the principal of U.S. Marine Surveyors http://usmarinesurveyors.com/about/ , also of Long Beach, CA. But maybe the company had a previous incarnation - John Soria's LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/captain-john-soria-9046 mentions a domain name vesseldocumentation.us , which was registered on 10/03/15 by one Edward Riener, according to https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results-res.jsp?domain=vesseldocumentation.us . The current domain name uscgdocumentation.us was registered by John Soria on 6/29/16 - https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results-res.jsp?domain=uscgdocumentation.us . Ed Riener runs a diving company in Southern California that also does marine survey work - http://edrienerdiving.com . So my guess, and this is just a guess, is that Ed Riener and John Soria may have met through their work in Southern California, and Ed Riener may have sold a vessel documentation business with domain name vesseldocumentation.us (registered 10/03/15) to John Soria who renamed the business U.S. Vessel Documentation and launched a new website at uscgdocumentation.us (registered 6/29/16). I complained to the USCG NVDC about U.S. Vessel Documentation in email on Friday, and may follow up with a letter or phone call to the CO of that unit. It could be argued that John Soria is close to violating 18 U.S. Code 912 - https://www.law
Re: Stus-List Fund Raising Update
Stu I just sent you $50 via PayPal. Thanks for everything you do for us. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Stu via CnC-List" To: "C&C email list" Cc: "Stu" Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 10:10:35 AM Subject: Stus-List Fund Raising Update Thanks to all who have contributed to our fund raising to help cover the costs involved running this list. To date, approximately 20 members have contributed just over $300 which is about 50% of my bill. I would include all their names, but I am sure I would miss someone. Remember, this list is provided free for the use of all. There is no subscription fee. Please consider helping by giving a small token of your appreciation. Contributions can be made via PayPal at: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray Thanks again everyone, your contributions are greatly appreciated. Stu ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
According to https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/CBS/SearchResults?SearchType=CORP&SearchCriteria=U.S.+Vessel+Documentation&SearchSubType=Keyword this company is only one year old. Its principals are John Soria and Maria Carlos of Long Beach, CA (husband and wife, it would appear from https://www.facebook.com/captainjohnsoria and https://www.facebook.com/maria.carlos.5268 ). John Soria is also the principal of U.S. Marine Surveyors http://usmarinesurveyors.com/about/ , also of Long Beach, CA. But maybe the company had a previous incarnation - John Soria's LinkedIn profile https://www.linkedin.com/in/captain-john-soria-9046 mentions a domain name vesseldocumentation.us, which was registered on 10/03/15 by one Edward Riener, according to https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results-res.jsp?domain=vesseldocumentation.us . The current domain name uscgdocumentation.us was registered by John Soria on 6/29/16 - https://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results-res.jsp?domain=uscgdocumentation.us . Ed Riener runs a diving company in Southern California that also does marine survey work - http://edrienerdiving.com . So my guess, and this is just a guess, is that Ed Riener and John Soria may have met through their work in Southern California, and Ed Riener may have sold a vessel documentation business with domain name vesseldocumentation.us (registered 10/03/15) to John Soria who renamed the business U.S. Vessel Documentation and launched a new website at uscgdocumentation.us (registered 6/29/16). I complained to the USCG NVDC about U.S. Vessel Documentation in email on Friday, and may follow up with a letter or phone call to the CO of that unit. It could be argued that John Soria is close to violating 18 U.S. Code 912 - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/912 , and possibly in violation of federal and California consumer protection laws as well. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Matthew L. Wolford via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Matthew L. Wolford" Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:05:33 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company FWIW, I almost fell for the same trick a couple years ago. I filled out the on-line form, but when I got to the price I figured there was no way the fee went up that much. So I left the form and found the authentic government vessel registration site. I called the government office in West Virginia and reported the scam, but apparently they do not intend to do anything about it. From: PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2017 1:33 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: PETER OCAMPO Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company Randy I'll make you feel. Being a new boat owner I googled us coast guard documentation saw the web site and filled out the forms for transfer of ownership and they took me for 450 but I would never had known I had over paid had if not been for your post. So next time I'll use the real uscg website. So thanks for saving me money in the future Peter Goonie island C&c 40 Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:29 AM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Yes I found the USCG NVDC to be very straightforward and helpful when I exchanged Grenadine's CoD from her previous owner to me one year ago. The USCG officers with whom I spoke on the phone were professional and informative, and the website and forms and procedures were easy to understand and easy to use. My complaint here is that there a predatory third-party business trying to deceive vessel owners into thinking it is the USCG NVDC, and then bilking them for 3X the cost of what the USCG NVDC charges for the same service. It succeeded in doing that to me. Fool me once, shame on me. I'm not the first person to get screwed by this unscrupulous company and complain about it - see https://www.bbb.org/losangelessiliconvalley/business-reviews/not-elsewhere-classified/us-marine-surveyors-inc-or-us-vessel-documenta-in-long-beach-ca-646887/reviews-and-complaints Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "phorvati ." < phorv...@gmail.com > To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "RANDY" < randy.staff...@comcast.net > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 8:56:03 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company I purchased a tayana fd12 in september, ended up submitting several parts of the application, all per the instruction document. Few of them were release of primary mortgage bill of sale and exchange of COD. all via email and pdfs attached. I was a bit scepticall but the coast guard website was accurate on processing times. I got the new COD last week. it was under 100$. So it took a bit, my gues
Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
Peter I'm so sorry, and please file a complaint against them with the BBB (at the link below) and USCG NVDC. When I transferred my COD through the USCG NVDC a year ago, it cost me $96.43 ($92 fees to USCG NVDC, $4.43 certified mail charges sending them documents). The more bilked consumers that complain about this company, the better the chances it will go away. Thanks, Randy - Original Message - From: "PETER OCAMPO" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "phorvati ." , "RANDY" Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 11:33:15 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company Randy I'll make you feel. Being a new boat owner I googled us coast guard documentation saw the web site and filled out the forms for transfer of ownership and they took me for 450 but I would never had known I had over paid had if not been for your post. So next time I'll use the real uscg website. So thanks for saving me money in the future Peter Goonie island C&c 40 Sent from my iPhone On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:29 AM, RANDY via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Yes I found the USCG NVDC to be very straightforward and helpful when I exchanged Grenadine's CoD from her previous owner to me one year ago. The USCG officers with whom I spoke on the phone were professional and informative, and the website and forms and procedures were easy to understand and easy to use. My complaint here is that there a predatory third-party business trying to deceive vessel owners into thinking it is the USCG NVDC, and then bilking them for 3X the cost of what the USCG NVDC charges for the same service. It succeeded in doing that to me. Fool me once, shame on me. I'm not the first person to get screwed by this unscrupulous company and complain about it - see https://www.bbb.org/losangelessiliconvalley/business-reviews/not-elsewhere-classified/us-marine-surveyors-inc-or-us-vessel-documenta-in-long-beach-ca-646887/reviews-and-complaints Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "phorvati ." < phorv...@gmail.com > To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "RANDY" < randy.staff...@comcast.net > Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 8:56:03 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company I purchased a tayana fd12 in september, ended up submitting several parts of the application, all per the instruction document. Few of them were release of primary mortgage bill of sale and exchange of COD. all via email and pdfs attached. I was a bit scepticall but the coast guard website was accurate on processing times. I got the new COD last week. it was under 100$. So it took a bit, my guess was due to request for release of PM. Coast Guard website works but u need to do your own due diligence, read requirements and fulfill them as required. On Feb 3, 2017 8:17 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers - fair warning - I got deceived today into paying 3X what I needed to for USCG documentation renewal. I received a letter via USPS from an entity named "U.S. Vessel Documentation", domain name uscgdocumentation.us , titled "Vessel Renewal Courtesy Notice". As I'm sure the sender intended, I mistook the letter as being from the United States Coast Guard National Vessel Documentation Center, reminding me to renew my Certificate of Documentation. It's been on my mind that my CoD is expiring soon, and I've been expecting a reminder. So I went to uscgdocumentation.us , filled out the renewal form, and submitted it. I was surprised to see the price was $75 - I'd remembered the renewal cost being ~$25 - but I thought "well, the Coast Guard must have raised their prices", and submitted the form anyway, with my credit card information. Somehow sometime after doing that, I noticed fine print at the very bottom of uscgdocumentation.us web pages, where you wouldn't even normally scroll or look, saying "U.S. Vessel Documentation is NOT the U.S. Coast Guard or the National Vessel Documentation Center; we are a third party agency that handles USCG Documentation processing to NVDC." So then I went to the real USCG NVDC website, https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/default.asp, where I applied for an exchange of the CoD last year when I bought Grenadine (since she was previously USCG-documented), and confirmed their renewal fee is only $26 and you can file for renewal online right there. At that point I realized I'd been had, and immediately requested cancellation of my renewal order from that company, in writing, and in voice mail, and filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and the USGC NVDC about "U.S. Vessel Documentation", and contacted my credit card company to block the charge from this
Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
Yes I found the USCG NVDC to be very straightforward and helpful when I exchanged Grenadine's CoD from her previous owner to me one year ago. The USCG officers with whom I spoke on the phone were professional and informative, and the website and forms and procedures were easy to understand and easy to use. My complaint here is that there a predatory third-party business trying to deceive vessel owners into thinking it is the USCG NVDC, and then bilking them for 3X the cost of what the USCG NVDC charges for the same service. It succeeded in doing that to me. Fool me once, shame on me. I'm not the first person to get screwed by this unscrupulous company and complain about it - see https://www.bbb.org/losangelessiliconvalley/business-reviews/not-elsewhere-classified/us-marine-surveyors-inc-or-us-vessel-documenta-in-long-beach-ca-646887/reviews-and-complaints Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "phorvati ." To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list" Cc: "RANDY" Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2017 8:56:03 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company I purchased a tayana fd12 in september, ended up submitting several parts of the application, all per the instruction document. Few of them were release of primary mortgage bill of sale and exchange of COD. all via email and pdfs attached. I was a bit scepticall but the coast guard website was accurate on processing times. I got the new COD last week. it was under 100$. So it took a bit, my guess was due to request for release of PM. Coast Guard website works but u need to do your own due diligence, read requirements and fulfill them as required. On Feb 3, 2017 8:17 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers - fair warning - I got deceived today into paying 3X what I needed to for USCG documentation renewal. I received a letter via USPS from an entity named "U.S. Vessel Documentation", domain name uscgdocumentation.us , titled "Vessel Renewal Courtesy Notice". As I'm sure the sender intended, I mistook the letter as being from the United States Coast Guard National Vessel Documentation Center, reminding me to renew my Certificate of Documentation. It's been on my mind that my CoD is expiring soon, and I've been expecting a reminder. So I went to uscgdocumentation.us , filled out the renewal form, and submitted it. I was surprised to see the price was $75 - I'd remembered the renewal cost being ~$25 - but I thought "well, the Coast Guard must have raised their prices", and submitted the form anyway, with my credit card information. Somehow sometime after doing that, I noticed fine print at the very bottom of uscgdocumentation.us web pages, where you wouldn't even normally scroll or look, saying "U.S. Vessel Documentation is NOT the U.S. Coast Guard or the National Vessel Documentation Center; we are a third party agency that handles USCG Documentation processing to NVDC." So then I went to the real USCG NVDC website, https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/default.asp, where I applied for an exchange of the CoD last year when I bought Grenadine (since she was previously USCG-documented), and confirmed their renewal fee is only $26 and you can file for renewal online right there. At that point I realized I'd been had, and immediately requested cancellation of my renewal order from that company, in writing, and in voice mail, and filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and the USGC NVDC about "U.S. Vessel Documentation", and contacted my credit card company to block the charge from this merchant. I'm now in the process of posting about this experience on sailing-related forums I've visited. If you own a USCG-documented vessel, *DO NOT* do business through the deceitful company uscgdocumentation.us , unless you don't mind paying 3X the cost of something you could do directly though https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/default.asp . These "U.S. Vessel Documentation" people are predatory. I've posted the letter I received, and an email exchange I had with this company, at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeU1HcDZKTWdiQzA . Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Deceitful USCG Documentation Renewal Company
Listers - fair warning - I got deceived today into paying 3X what I needed to for USCG documentation renewal. I received a letter via USPS from an entity named "U.S. Vessel Documentation", domain name uscgdocumentation.us, titled "Vessel Renewal Courtesy Notice". As I'm sure the sender intended, I mistook the letter as being from the United States Coast Guard National Vessel Documentation Center, reminding me to renew my Certificate of Documentation. It's been on my mind that my CoD is expiring soon, and I've been expecting a reminder. So I went to uscgdocumentation.us, filled out the renewal form, and submitted it. I was surprised to see the price was $75 - I'd remembered the renewal cost being ~$25 - but I thought "well, the Coast Guard must have raised their prices", and submitted the form anyway, with my credit card information. Somehow sometime after doing that, I noticed fine print at the very bottom of uscgdocumentation.us web pages, where you wouldn't even normally scroll or look, saying "U.S. Vessel Documentation is NOT the U.S. Coast Guard or the National Vessel Documentation Center; we are a third party agency that handles USCG Documentation processing to NVDC." So then I went to the real USCG NVDC website, https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/default.asp, where I applied for an exchange of the CoD last year when I bought Grenadine (since she was previously USCG-documented), and confirmed their renewal fee is only $26 and you can file for renewal online right there. At that point I realized I'd been had, and immediately requested cancellation of my renewal order from that company, in writing, and in voice mail, and filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and the USGC NVDC about "U.S. Vessel Documentation", and contacted my credit card company to block the charge from this merchant. I'm now in the process of posting about this experience on sailing-related forums I've visited. If you own a USCG-documented vessel, *DO NOT* do business through the deceitful company uscgdocumentation.us, unless you don't mind paying 3X the cost of something you could do directly though https://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/default.asp . These "U.S. Vessel Documentation" people are predatory. I've posted the letter I received, and an email exchange I had with this company, at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeU1HcDZKTWdiQzA . Cheers, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Stus-List Pins in Chainplates
Does anybody know what the heck these pins in C&C chainplates are for? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa2dfMFlmWHlsR0U Cheers, Randy ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates
alant too. I don't know of a good reason not to use butyl tape so once your plate is bolted back in place make sure to pack any gap around the chain plate and make a doughnut around the chain plate. Layer the cover plate with a thin layer of butyl (stay about 1/4 of an inch from the edges). Tighten everything down. Having an extra set of hands will help at almost every step of the process. Good luck, Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Jan 30, 2017 10:17 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this. Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing, weighting the area and looking for deflection, etc. Put a few pictures up at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk . I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and replacing core material; I think digging out some core around the edges, and filling with thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and repair. The deck, especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull and doesn't deflect downward. It seems solid enough. The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage. Only one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it was superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off). I'm fortunate that my boat has had a freshwater life its entire life. You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away, but then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice. Really appreciate everyone's responses. Someday I'll need to work up the courage to do a peel & re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot there. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO From: "Dave S via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > To: "C&c Stus List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Cc: "Dave S" < syerd...@gmail.com > Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates FWIW, and I agree with much below. Will assume you are dealing with balsa and not plywood as a core. Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, etc... Probably way too much info, but: 1) Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet) 2) I prefer to remove more rather than less. This allows you a large enough area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result. You can also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a small hole. As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces. 3) I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only. The hole saw also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well bedded in glass-filled epoxy. Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a "puck" from that sheet and install into the hole. Bulletproof. 4) IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move. Working from above can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder. 5) Epoxy is available in a range of cure times. "hot in the pot" should not be an issue if you pick the right one. Never had that happen, but I have had it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time. (have had polyester resin get pretty hot) 6) To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper. Best is to do this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured) Not only is the putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical bond. You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond. (google "amine blush") 7) when done, (but not cured) you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed paper) over top and smooth. this can help tame any stray edges and depending on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in adhesion to curves. You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii for a more professional result. 8) Read up on
Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates
I'd really like to thank everyone for all the responses on this. Went back to the boat today and carefully re-examined the core around the chainplate cutouts, and did a bunch of testing - percussion testing, weighting the area and looking for deflection, etc. Put a few pictures up at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTcTV6UlEwMmlqZkk . I don't think the extent of coring warrants peeling the top skin and replacing core material; I think digging out some core around the edges, and filling with thickened epoxy, will be enough of an improvement and repair. The deck, especially outboard and downslope of the chainplate cutouts, doesn't sound dull and doesn't deflect downward. It seems solid enough. The chainplates themselves show no signs of corrosion or moisture damage. Only one bolt (lowest inboard starboard) out of 14 showed any rust, and it was superficial (nowhere near twisting the head off). I'm fortunate that my boat has had a freshwater life its entire life. You can see in the pictures I've got a bit more old sealant to clean away, but then I think a dig, fill, and re-seal job should suffice. Really appreciate everyone's responses. Someday I'll need to work up the courage to do a peel & re-core job under my starboard aft bow pulpit foot - I have a small soft spot there. Best Regards, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO - Original Message - From: "Dave S via CnC-List" To: "C&c Stus List" Cc: "Dave S" Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 9:43:00 AM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates FWIW, and I agree with much below. Will assume you are dealing with balsa and not plywood as a core. Have repaired both and will share the following, YMMV, etc... Probably way too much info, but: 1) Damp balsa does not mean structurally unsound (yet) 2) I prefer to remove more rather than less. This allows you a large enough area to work, makes it easy to clean/prep the surfaces, as well as being certain that you are not building any voids into the finished result. You can also use really thick glass-loaded epoxy that simply cannot be injected into a small hole. As with drywall/sheetrock, it is sometimes easier when doing repairs to give yourself space to work, and to prep the surfaces. 3) I like the hole saw approach, cutting through one skin only. The hole saw also allows you the opportunity to install a structural filler piece, well bedded in glass-filled epoxy. Rather than just troweling in the schmutz. you can laminate a sheet of fibreglass into a high density layup of the appropriate thickness, (even tapered, or curved) then use the same hole saw to cut out a "puck" from that sheet and install into the hole. Bulletproof. 4) IMO Working from below is best if you have the space/access, for a number of reasons, including the fact that any holes won't move. Working from above can be easier, though the cosmetic redemption is harder. 5) Epoxy is available in a range of cure times. "hot in the pot" should not be an issue if you pick the right one. Never had that happen, but I have had it get a little warm and further shorten the cure time. (have had polyester resin get pretty hot) 6) To make a patch that feathers on the edges, laminate progressively smaller pieces of cloth (alternate mat and cloth with polyester resin, I like biaxial stitch mat with epoxy) on a sheet of waxed paper, then lift that and stick it onto the wound like a bandaid, peeling off the waxed paper. Best is to do this (or any sequential application of epoxy) on top of the previous epoxy application while it is at its B stage (gelled but not cured) Not only is the putty still it pliable, but it will not need prep to achieve a good chemical bond. You can not simply epoxy over top of cured epoxy and expect a bond. (google "amine blush") 7) when done, (but not cured) you can carefully lay some PE film (or waxed paper) over top and smooth. this can help tame any stray edges and depending on the repair, actually functions a bit like a vacuum bag, assisting in adhesion to curves. You can also shape any putty into smooth shapes or radii for a more professional result. 8) Read up on fillers. If you expect to fill space, you don't want the epoxy to flow, you need colloidal silica, If you want it to be strong you need to load with glass, you want to sand it microspheres. (don't put yourself in the position of having to sand the structural part of a repair) 9) make a notched trowel and use appropriate fillers for fairing/finishing. The notches leave little ridges in the epoxy. Sand those off and stop. OK, that's enough... Dave -- Forwarded message -- From: < cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com > Date: 30 January 2017 at 09:25 Subject: CnC-List Digest, Vol 132, Issue 70 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to cnc-list@cnc-list.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates
Thanks Dennis (and Gary and Sam). Let me see where I stand on Tuesday - I may be ready to epoxy if I can do the bent nail and acetone thing tomorrow. Let's call or text on Tuesday. Gary - my chainplate covers are aluminum and still in good shape, just needed a really good cleaning (probably 44 years' worth of various sealant jobs built up on their undersides). Sam - yes my chainplates bolt to fiberglass "knees" tabbed to the hull. And the chainplates and knees are in good shape - no sign of weakening from exposure to moisture. I just want to make sure I do a proper job of sealing it all up so I don't get more coring in the deck going forward. Unfortunately it looks like my boat's previous owners didn't do a proper job (e.g. per Don Casey's prescriptions) of keeping this area sealed, and a little bit of coring occurred. The starboard side was all gooped up with clear silicone, and the port side had an ineffective bead of white caulk around the edge of the cover, and both sides had hard-as-rock probably original white-colored sealant under those other sealants. I'll be using polysulfide (Life Caulk) per Don Casey for the re-bedding sealant. Cheers, Randy - Original Message - From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List" To: "cnc-list" Cc: "Dennis" Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:30:09 PM Subject: Re: Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates Randy, You're on the right track. Wish I'd known you were doing that, I would have stopped by and taken a peek. I'm back up in the mountains now. If it was me, I'd remove the wet core as far back as I could with bent nail, etc., dry it with acetone and/or heat gun, tape the area, inject some neat epoxy until it was level with the deck, use bent nail to agitate it then quickly suck out the epoxy. That will coat the exposed surfaces so the thickened epoxy will bond better. Then I'd inject thickened epoxy, let it cure and re-install the chalnplates. Don't forget to chamfer the hole so the bedding plate doesn't sit down on a square edged cut. I'm headed back down to the airport Tuesday afternoon. Got to pick up my ski buddies Wednesday morning. I might be able to swing by the dry storage on the way. Dennis C. On Jan 29, 2017 3:48 PM, "RANDY via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: Listers- We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February). So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C&C 30 MK I as part of a planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year). Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate cutout holes. Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the right way. The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) core. On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck repair. I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill. Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, and then re-bed the chainplates. The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core. However that seems like a huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large. I haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but I can percussion-test it carefully. In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air. I may go pour some acetone in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique. I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach. What do you think? Thanks, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated! _
Stus-List Deck Coring Around Chainplates
Listers- We're having a spate of nice weather here in Denver - supposed to be sunny all week and 61 degrees tomorrow (yes, in late January / early February). So today I pulled the chainplates on my 1972 C&C 30 MK I as part of a planned rebedding job (I confirmed leaks down the chainplates last year). Unfortunately after removing all old sealant I found some wet and rotten wood core material between the outer and inner deck skins around the chainplate cutout holes. Now I want to solicit the list's collective wisdom on how to deal with this the right way. The lazy approach would be to just reinstall the chainplates and inject new sealant all around, including into the void between deck skins where rotten core came out, butting up against remaining (and possibly still wet) core. On the other hand I've read everything Don Casey has to say about cored deck repair. I could consider removing core around all sides of the cutout, about a half-inch back from each edge, using a bent nail chucked into a power drill. Then I could fill those voids with thickened epoxy to the edges of the cutout, and then re-bed the chainplates. The extreme end of the spectrum would be to try to map out the area of wet core e.g. perhaps from the outboard edge of the chainplate cutout all the way to the toe rail, then remove and replace the damaged core. However that seems like a huge and complicated job, and I don't think the wet area is that large. I haven't noticed any softness or squishiness around the chainplates at all, but I can percussion-test it carefully. In the meantime I'm letting those areas dry out by leaving the chainplates out and exposing those areas to the dry Colorado air. I may go pour some acetone in those voids too, since Don Casey identifies that as a core-drying technique. I'm leaning towards the void-filling approach. What do you think? Thanks, Randy Stafford S/V Grenadine C&C 30-1 #7 Ken Caryl, CO ___ This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: https://www.paypal.me/stumurray All Contributions are greatly appreciated!