> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Deborah Harrell
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:19 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: RE: U.S. health care
>
> > Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
is true, we would see
> a drop in hospital costs that correspond to the
> increase in prescription payments.
The major problem with the current added coverage is
that _by law_ the gov't can't negotiate with the
pharmas for drug pricing...which will not lower health
care costs at
Dan Minette wrote:
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Nick Arnett
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:57 PM
>> To: Killer Bs Discussion
>> Subject: Re: U.S. health care
>>
>> You do
costs for
> the care required during that first year or so may easily run into
> the hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe even top a million
> dollars in some cases, particularly when the problems are due to
> multiple births and each of the n-uplets requires such care because
&g
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
> On 5/30/07, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>>
>>> --
>>> Mauro Diotallevi
>>> "Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the
>> god
>>> of jello now." -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
>>> _
At 08:44 PM Friday 5/25/2007, Robert Seeberger wrote:
>I've worked in a few hospitals here in Houston and everyone of them is
>undergoing large expansions. One is left to wonder who is paying for
>all this construction if not the end customers. In every hospital I
>have worked in, doctors are dail
On 5/30/07, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>
> > --
> > Mauro Diotallevi
> > "Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the
> god
> > of jello now." -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
> >
On 5/29/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BTW, are you also a fan of GWAR?
>
Heh. I saw GWAR -- which I believe stands for "God What A Racket" -- in a
bar in KC when they were touring to support _America Must Be
Destroyed/Phallus in Wonderland_. That must have been... 1992?
FWIW, from CNN AM QuickNews this morning:
An open letter to the candidates
Business legend Andy Grove shares a few modest proposals to fix
health care, from Fortune Magazine.
<http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/29/news/economy/grove_column.fortune/index.htm>
-
I'm jumping ahead to this thread, but have much to say
in the conservation one still (and I've only time for
one more post today)-
> Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It will have to be addressed by some sort of health
> care rationing. The
> only question is
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
> --
> Mauro Diotallevi
> "Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the god
> of jello now." -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
> ___
OK, that ranks up there with, "Nothing says 'Aliens, land here!' l
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:08:39
To:"Killer Bs Discussion"
Subject: Re: Mauro's latest .sig, was Re: U.S. health care
On 5/24/07, Ronn! Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>
> >--
> >Maur
On 5/24/07, Ronn! Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>
> >--
> >Mauro Diotallevi
> >"Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the
> god
> >of jello now." -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
>
>
>
> There is
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Robert Seeberger
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 11:32 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: U.S. health care
>
> Ackkk!!!
> That isn't the way one fairly comp
jon louis mann wrote:
> michael moore was on bill maher tonight talking about how the richest
> country in the world is 37th in health care, because the system is
> being looted by the health care providers and pharmaceutical companies.
> they toss enough crumbs to the doctors to kee
On 25 May 2007 at 16:10, Dan Minette wrote:
> > If I need to see a doctor, I inform my workplace and go. I make up
> > the hours. That's pretty standard for non-shift workers here. As
> > opposed to being told to take holiday..
>
> That's pretty standard here too...at least as far as I've seen.
michael moore was on bill maher tonight talking about how the richest
country in the world is 37th in health care, because the system is
being looted by the health care providers and pharmaceutical companies.
they toss enough crumbs to the doctors to keep them happy, but their
bottom line is
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
>Well, I see the other side. I had a neighbor who was a blood
>specialist..and couldn't find work in his specialty. He supplemented
>his
>inc
Original Message:
-
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 20:44:13 -0500
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussi
- Original Message -
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'"
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: U.S. health care
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ronn! Blankenship
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:45 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: RE: U.S. health care
>
> Let us presume as was the case in the cases I have
&
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 2:13 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: RE: U.S. health care
>
>
> If I need to see a doctor, I inform my workplace an
At 07:38 AM Friday 5/25/2007, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
>I got the link perfectly. The video hung up the entire screen on "Loading
>..." and I had to get out completely. What is it with msnbc videos? That's
>the second one that's done this to me.
Since the "ms" in "msnbc" stands for "Micro$oft" you ***h
On 25 May 2007 at 12:52, Dan Minette wrote:
> > But that doesn't prove anything. The barriers to seeing a doctor in
> > America in the first place are still there (there is no chance to the
> > philosophy of access, or of methods of treatment),
>
> I'm not sure what you are getting at. With basi
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:32 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: RE: U.S. health care
>
> On 23 May 2007 at 21:38, Dan Minette wrote:
>
&g
Original Message:
-
From: Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 22:27:58 +1000
To: brin-l@mccmedia.com
Subject: Re: U.S. health care
On 25/05/2007, at 7:09 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
>
> That's true, but if one is really broke, beans and cornbread a
; Stephen Colbert"
>From: Ronn! Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion
>To: "Killer Bs Discussion"
>Subject: RE: U.S. health care
>Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 21:54:06 -0500
>
>At 10:37 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, PAT MATHEWS wrote
On 25/05/2007, at 7:09 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
>
> That's true, but if one is really broke, beans and cornbread are
> very cheap.
> You can get the makings for a family of four for about a dollar.
And that's a sustainment diet.
>
> It's hard to get fruit and fresh veggies cheap.
It's not hard
there is a part of me that believes [...] there are already too many
people on this planet.
Let me ask you some of the questions I ask everyone who says that:
(1) What do you think is the maximum number of people who could?
should? be on this planet? (A range is acceptable, but some sort of
At 03:47 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
>Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
> >
> > I'm only half-way kidding.
> >
>Me too - as always.
>
>Alberto Monteiro
Me three, as always.
-- Ronn! :)
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
At 05:08 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, jon louis mann wrote:
>there is a part of me that believes [...] there are already too many people
>on this planet.
Let me ask you some of the questions I ask everyone who says that:
(1) What do you think is the maximum number of people who could?
should? be o
At 10:37 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, PAT MATHEWS wrote:
>One way would be to have a string of simple health clinics that could do
>checkups and make ordinary repairs - stitches, shots, setting broken bones,
>monitoring diabetics, etc - and refer people to other facilities if there
>were problems. They
At 10:21 AM Wednesday 5/23/2007, Dan Minette wrote:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of jon louis mann
> > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:04 PM
> > To: Killer Bs Discussion
> > Subject: U.S. h
At 03:21 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Alberto Monteiro wrote:
>Nick Arnett wrote:
> >
> > By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
> > ;-) Seriously, though, I'd have a hard time differentiating personal
> > from systemic causes for unhealthly lifestyles when there's so much e
172) from the
study sample. Total medical claim costs of -$56, $88, and $3574 were estimated
for one additional point on the wellness score, 1 year of additional age,
and an existing major disease, respectively. No significant differences were
found between the model predicted and actua
On 5/24/07, Mauro Diotallevi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm just advocating people taking more responsibility for
> themselves. I've
> seen too many people who eat nothing but junk food and never exercise
> complaining about the low quality of health care tha
At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>--
>Mauro Diotallevi
>"Hey, Harry, you haven't done anything useful for a while -- you be the god
>of jello now." -- Patricia Wrede, 8/16/2006 on rasfc
There is already a god of Jell-O.
Just go to Utah and visit any activity where food
At 03:36 PM Thursday 5/24/2007, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>You raise an interesting and important point. It is less expensive --
>sometimes *much* less expensive -- to each unhealthy foods than it is to eat
>healthy. Maybe instead of subsidizing the military-industrial complex, the
>government cou
Depends on the story. I would place Moore's story telling with the
"young buck buying steak with food stamps story." There was a
documentary at the South by Southwest film festival (I think I got the
name right) in Austin, by self-proclaimed leftists, on Moore. One
tidbit about his technique is
Nick Arnett wrote:
By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
People are social creatures; it's naive to imagine that some sort of
"Just say no" mentality would make all those problems go away. I'm
not saying you're making that argument, but I've certainly heard it.
the capital necessary to invest in
proper health care, property and other long term assests. it is no
wonder obesity is a problem with poor people since a large part of
their diet is starch.
jon mann
Knowledge is Power
___
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charlie Bell
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:54 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: U.S. health care
>
>
> On 25/05/2007, at 6:36 AM, Mauro Diotallevi wro
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Nick Arnett
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:57 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: Re: U.S. health care
>
> On 5/23/07, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
&g
On 25/05/2007, at 6:36 AM, Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>
> You raise an interesting and important point. It is less expensive --
> sometimes *much* less expensive -- to each unhealthy foods than it
> is to eat
> healthy.
Not really. It's just a lot more effort to go to the market, or plan
out y
Mauro Diotallevi wrote:
>
>> And there's a very Evil aspect of this: food with trans fat costs
>> _much_ less than a similar food without trans fat. If I were
>> paranoid, I would suggest that the reason is that Food Companies
>> and Medical Companies are owned by the same evil and greedy people.
>
On 5/24/07, Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Nick Arnett wrote:
> >
> > By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
> > ;-) Seriously, though, I'd have a hard time differentiating personal
> > from systemic causes for unhealthly lifestyles when there's so mu
ting with each other, marketing has a lot more money.
>
> They expect modern medicine to be able to fix any problem they
> > happen to acquire along the way, instead of taking the responsibility
> and
> > doing the work it takes to stay healthy. Our doctors and nurses --
On 23 May 2007 at 21:38, Dan Minette wrote:
>
>
> > SImply put, the weakest area of the American health system is
> > preventative care. Poorer people with chronic conditions can end up
> > with repeated emergency hospital treatment for conditions which are
> > manageable with drugs which, while
Nick Arnett wrote:
>
> By letting those who are to blame for their own illnesses just die?
> ;-) Seriously, though, I'd have a hard time differentiating personal
> from systemic causes for unhealthly lifestyles when there's so much effort
> invested in advocating them in advertising, marketing
acquire along the way, instead of taking the responsibility and
> doing the work it takes to stay healthy. Our doctors and nurses -- and
> our
> health care dollars -- are taken up treating people who could have
> avoided
> their health problems by making healthier decisions. Redu
On 5/23/07, PAT MATHEWS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Heavens - even to me, reared in the system, they are often
> repugnant.
You reminded me of the fact that now that I'm 50, I have to have a
colonoscopy. Reared in the system, indeed.
Nick
--
Nick Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages: 408-90
On 5/23/07, Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> This problem is a good one for discussion here. However, it will not be
> solved by polemics that provide simple stories with heroes and villains
> like
> that provided by Moore. There is a hard way out for this, just no easy
> way
> ou
On 5/23/07, PAT MATHEWS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As it is, I know a fair number of people who go to herbalists and other
> alternative practitioners for a lot of their health care, partly because
> of
> all the hassle and expense involved in using the health care system
My bes
On 5/20/07, jon louis mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
> our soul?"
>
> DUMPED ON SKID ROW – Hospitals drop homeless patients on the city's
> Skid Row, sometimes dressed in only a flimsy gown and without a wheel
> chair, even
e calculations from various sources, and they are usually pipe
dreams. The subset that is not tends to be characterized by tangible
quantitative arguments...not general ones.
Having said that, I'll agree that there will be some benefit, so maybe it's
just 25% of GDP in 10 years if we d
;To: Killer Bs Discussion
>Subject: U.S. health care
>Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:51:43 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Ah. We here in the Southwest tend to feel we're the only ones who know
>anything about Native Americans (blush).
>Apologies.
>http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
>
>non
Ah. We here in the Southwest tend to feel we're the only ones who know
anything about Native Americans (blush).
Apologies.
http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/
none necessary, i also live in the southwest. my brother-in-law was a
canadian native american. i am one of those rarities, a mexican
cana
t;Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion
>To: Killer Bs Discussion
>Subject: U.S. health care
>Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 12:16:19 -0700 (PDT)
>
>You said: "even though i am a skeptic about chanting, gris gris and
>juju cures, i never negate the power of suggestion."
>
>Tho
On 23 May 2007 at 10:21, Dan Minette wrote:
> And, fixing this is not as easy as Moore might suggest. As it stands, over
> 16% of GDP is spent on health care.and this is with a significant
> fraction of Americans obtaining sub-standard care If everyone was given the
> BMW service
n help the body do its job, or at least not fight
it. It's analogous to explaining the treatment in the language (to
quote the old Episcopalian prayer book) "Understanded of the people."
Because to many traditional people, the ways of our health care system
are not only alien, but in s
n help the body do its job, or at least not fight it. It's analogous
to explaining the treatment in the language (to quote the old Episcopalian
prayer book) "Understanded of the people." Because to many traditional
people, the ways of our health care system are not only alien,
"Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
our soul?"
DUMPED ON SKID ROW - Hospitals drop homeless patients on the city's
Skid Row.
-- jlm
--The first thing that comes to mind is that this is an expect-able,
albeit immoral, response to the mess that hospitals find themse
staffed by
medics, paramedics, medtechs, nurse-practitioners, etc - with a doctor on
call who also made the rounds of the clinics on a regular schedule.
As it is, I know a fair number of people who go to herbalists and other
alternative practitioners for a lot of their health care, partly because of
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of jon louis mann
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 11:04 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: U.S. health care
>
> "Why do we behave the way we behave? What has beco
Robert G. Seeberger wrote:
>
> Director Michael Moore says the U.S. health care system is driven by
> greed in his new documentary "SiCKO," and asks of Americans in
> general, "Where is our soul?"
>
Of course it's not appropriate to lay out statistics ba
On 5/21/07, Robert G. Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070519/en_nm/cannes_sicko_dc_1;_ylt=AksZn5YYuAQpYyfeUmrQJEsE1vAI
>
> http://tinyurl.com/39hxo7
>
>
> Director Michael Moore says the U.S. health care system is driven by
> greed in hi
"Why do we behave the way we behave? What has become of us? Where is
our soul?"
DUMPED ON SKID ROW Hospitals drop homeless patients on the citys
Skid Row, sometimes dressed in only a flimsy gown and without a wheel
chair, even if they're not healthy enough to fend for themselves.
Anderson Coo
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070519/en_nm/cannes_sicko_dc_1;_ylt=AksZn5YYuAQpYyfeUmrQJEsE1vAI
http://tinyurl.com/39hxo7
Director Michael Moore says the U.S. health care system is driven by
greed in his new documentary "SiCKO," and asks of Americans in
general, "Where is our
> discussion of some of these benefits being dropped
> due to budget
> constraints) yet basic healthcare for "well
> babies/children" is often still not available
Ah. Yes, there does appear to be a 'penny wise but
pound foolish' outlook in a lot of so-called health
car
he was in prison, though, the law said he was entitled to the best possible
health care at public expense . . .
In Larry Niven's Universe He'd Have Been A Donor Rather Than A Recipient Maru
--Ronn! :)
I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon.
I never dreamed that
t- IIRC in Australia, every
>> individual has a basic
>> plan and individuals can "buy up" to other levels.
>
>Does this mean a National Health Care System (what we
>would call a single payor plan), paid for by taxes?
Traditionally this would be an option, how
t; plan and individuals can "buy up" to other levels.
Does this mean a National Health Care System (what we
would call a single payor plan), paid for by taxes?
> I am not a huge fan of "heroic" life prolonging
> measures,
Me neither, in the case of terminal conditions
>Debbie asked-
>OTOH, where *does* one¹ hold the line on health costs?
This is a doozie to work through, maybe we can start this one bit at a time
and try an international flair. So far to date (after some schooling and
thinking) I like the Australian System best. Philisophically I figure th
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