--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
For the Netflixers here seasons 1 and 2 of Portlandia are
available WI.
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Portlandia/70185015
I also got a kick out of a Portland vs Seattle theme they
started with in the second episode (with Chloe
Home Opinion
We want to have the best of two worlds
By V P Thomson Piravom , 28th December 2012 11:47 PM
Muvattupuzha, our taluk's capital town, witnessed a bizarre
incident a few months ago. A 18-year-old girl was forcibly
hugged and kissed by a young man in broad daylight on the
public
A tantric teacher David Deida once told a group that in ancient times wise
cultures had a system whereby widowed or single postmenopausal women initiated
the young men of the tribe into the ahem love making arts. Seems like a win
win to me (-:
From:
Nabbley, are you by any chance 94 and a half? ( -:
From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:45 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Bevan!!! Hagelin!!!..David Lynch!!
Buck! PR
John just for fun I googled Freemasons and Illuminati. Such organizations for
me fall into the category of what we have no control over we take to be the
will of God. By which I mean given that this might be happening, I live my
life as best as I can and leave the rest up to Life, Universe,
dear Mr. Taxi, if you don't mind, I'd rather have pixie dust from Deepak and
breath from Tinkerbelle (-:
How do you feel about paradoxes? Are you for 'em or agin 'em? Personally I
love them. They have a certain je ne sais quoi that makes my corpus callosum
smile. Anyway, we agree that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter
An economist, Dakinikat of Skydancing, writes a well-researched, impassioned
piece about ALEC. She targets Dickensian creeps who want to get rid of state
income taxes by raising sales taxes, which places more of the burden on the
poor. The most quotable passages:
The one thing that I've
international business times
Hundreds of Students at a Buddhist Girls School in Thailand Practice
Transcendental Meditation® Twice Daily
http://www.ibtimes.com/press-release/20130110/hundreds-students-buddhist-girls-school-thailand-practice-transcendental
Aw, now you've done it. EVERYONE will know what a softy, sucky person you are
Raunchy.
I think on the hedgehog it is all those little pink toes and bellybutton that
get me, plus how gently the person is holding it.
And of course Jesse, well, let's just say, How great are dogs? They are the
one
On 01/11/2013 12:12 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
For the Netflixers here seasons 1 and 2 of Portlandia are
available WI.
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/Portlandia/70185015
I also got a kick out of a Portland vs Seattle theme they
started
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
Aw, now you've done it. EVERYONE will know what a
softy, sucky person you are Raunchy.
I think on the hedgehog it is all those little
pink toes and bellybutton that get me, plus how
gently the person is holding it.
Just as a warning to
Very cute. I took the jack to a large park yesterday on Lake Washington
yesterday with another person who has large dogs - german shepherd, huskies, a
couple of rescues. They aren't aggressive nor is the jack so we let them run
together. Nothing is more exhilarating than watching a dog go
Delete one of those yesterdays - I think I need to take something for my
brain. Turmeric?
From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 9:47 AM
Subject: Re:
I think this also happened on a Wednesday (-:
From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:42 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: apropos of nothing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann
Boy has some serious heart, dedication, and drive - perhaps obsessed, no? This
was crazy good.
From: Bob Price bobpri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:52 AM
Subject: Re:
http://www.homeremediesweb.com/turmeric-health-benefits.php
From: Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] apropos of nothing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
This is a show about a nuclear sub commander who refuses to
launch a missile at Pakistan and instead sends it 200 miles
off the coast of Washington DC.
Er, DC doesn't have a coastline; it's about 100 miles inland.
I assume you mean
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote:
Boy has some serious heart, dedication, and drive - perhaps
obsessed, no? Â This was crazy good.
I can do without the contortionist stuff, but I loved the
slow-motion illusion--so delicate and precise. I'll bet
that's even harder to do
http://youtu.be/WfBE_DIR2Jo
http://www.healthhabits.ca/2013/01/10/aspire-assist-medically-assisted-bulimia/
From the the inventor of the Segway apparently.
The Unified Field
I go among trees and sit still,
All my stirring becomes quiet
around me like circles on water.
-Wendell Berry
All Possibilities
Freedom
Unboundedness
Self-Sufficiency
Bliss
Integrating
Self-Referral
On 01/11/2013 10:34 AM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
This is a show about a nuclear sub commander who refuses to
launch a missile at Pakistan and instead sends it 200 miles
off the coast of Washington DC.
Er, DC doesn't have a coastline; it's about
On 01/11/2013 10:56 AM, PaliGap wrote:
http://youtu.be/WfBE_DIR2Jo
http://www.healthhabits.ca/2013/01/10/aspire-assist-medically-assisted-bulimia/
From the the inventor of the Segway apparently.
More likely a science diet for humans would be effective. You need to
recognize the different
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
On 01/11/2013 10:34 AM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
This is a show about a nuclear sub commander who refuses to
launch a missile at Pakistan and instead sends it 200 miles
off the coast
Dear Em - yes I got it after Alex's hilarious post. Just spending time with
my family, all mundane tasks here seem to involve so much drama that you
don't have time for cyber dramas :-) - not to mention all my family
drama. Will send more pictures later.
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Emily
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Alex Stanley
j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.comwrote:
**
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Emily Reyn wrote:
**
WTF?LOL(to channel the traveling RC - same initials as RC -
this
And just to throw another ingredient into the stew, DC place of my birth is of
course in the Chesapeake Bay watershed. I know this because for 20 years I
drove from FF to DC every December and saw the sign, somewhere in WVA declaring
this fact which always gave me a big thrill. As for this
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
Dear Em - yes I got it after Alex's hilarious post. Just
spending time with my family, all mundane tasks here seem
to involve so much drama that you don't have time for cyber
dramas :-) - not to mention all my family drama. Will
From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing
going. Thoughts anyone?
http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ciFTP_KRy4
From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 11:42:24 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Cyberstalker Trainees (Turq's Occult Theory Of
What Motivates
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, merlin wrote:
international business times
Hundreds of Students at a Buddhist Girls School in Thailand Practice
Transcendental Meditation® Twice Daily
On 01/11/2013 11:28 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
On 01/11/2013 10:34 AM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
This is a show about a nuclear sub commander who refuses to
launch a missile at Pakistan and
Share,
It would help to be aware of what is happening to the world within your own
consciousness. By doing so, you will know the organizations involved and what
they're doing that will directly affect you and your family. As such, you will
be better informed to make a decision as to who to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
On 01/11/2013 10:34 AM, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote:
This is a show about a nuclear sub commander who refuses to
launch a
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
And just to throw another ingredient into the stew, DC place of
my birth is of course in the Chesapeake Bay watershed. I know
this because for 20 years I drove from FF to DC every December
and saw the sign, somewhere in WVA declaring
... aka...? :o
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula wrote:
Dear Em - yes I got it after Alex's hilarious post. Just
spending time with my family, all mundane tasks here seem
to involve so much drama that you don't have time
Scientist: Top Selling Weed Killer Monsanto's Roundup
Linked tInfertilityo
http://naturalsociety.com/world%e2%80%99s-top-commercial-weed-liller-li\
nked-to-infertility-scientist/[Print Friendly and PDF]
http://www.printfriendly.com/
Comments (5)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote:
From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing
going. Thoughts anyone?
http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
Yuck! :/
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, card wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote:
From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing
going. Thoughts anyone?
Looks like he is finnish ! :-)
http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
Yep, that's what grabbed me as well.
From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:45 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Nature Of Obsession
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn
Just thinking of you Ravi. Yes, Alex's post was very perfect. Cyber drama is
not important and family drama often warrants attention - in my family at
least. Love you, thinking of you, send pictures at your discretion and on your
timeline. Take good care. Love, Em.
Judy, well here in FF I'm at least 19 hours away from the ocean, etc. So 3
hours away is relatively speaking, like living on the beach. Like that like
that. Except since you are ON the beach, maybe not. BTW thank you for nugget
about TM courses being advances rather than retreats.
Ravi,
On 01/11/2013 01:25 PM, Share Long wrote:
Alex, please do not allow the inventor of the bulemia machine to join FFL.
Thank you.
I occasionally see someone on a Segway downtown. We have one word for
them: lazy. The walk would do them good. I swear the only reason people
buy these is
Hey now, I think Barry is making a change - it's probably do to the change of
life issue - happens differently for men than women. I mean, it has been at
least 3 days now where he hasn't gone after the women on the forum. Ah ha ha
ha...yes, I got the applicability of this video, at least I
Damn, I mean due to. Alright, maybe a swim will help ground me. I'm pretty
sure I'm headed towards meditation - despite myself. Pretty sure...I mean,
really, I got nothing to lose. I'll just add that to the growing, itemized
list of self-care solutions.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
Judy, well here in FF I'm at least 19 hours away from the ocean, etc. So 3
hours away is relatively speaking, like living on the beach. Like that like
that. Except since you are ON the beach, maybe not. BTW thank you for
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymae.reyn wrote:
Hey now, I think Barry is making a change - it's probably do
to the change of life issue - happens differently for men
than women.
Could be, but at 67, he's a little past the age for either.
In any event, he needs quite a bit of
I think the Segway is goofy also, but don't discount that it is fun to ride.
I've never been on one, but, of course, with my experience as a Trikke rider,
it's pretty easy for me to see what thrills they can get. Paltry thrills
comparatively, but for some, genuine.
I do things at 15 mph
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
Judy, well here in FF I'm at least 19 hours away from the ocean, etc. So 3
hours away is relatively speaking, like living on the beach. Like that like
that. Except since you are ON the beach, maybe not. BTW thank you for
He's doing a take-off on some new agish types, right? This is a joke, right?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote:
From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little thing
going. Thoughts anyone?
http://youtu.be/T1V_JD9rODk
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote:
He's doing a take-off on some new agish types, right? This
is a joke, right?
Sadly, no:
http://thewholeness.com/
(At least not intentionally.)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote:
From TMFree, apparently a
Go to the website. He thinks he's for real.
Let's see, you take a business course then you need a product to sell to
make money in this disastrous economy. Remember we had someone here or
on a.m.t who learned from a mystic in the Hitler Germany era. She said
there were all kinds of mystics
emilymae.reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com wrote:
snip
Hey now, I think Barry is making a change .
***BP: Famous bridges for sale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWnGsBvFQSI
PS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTnEyRLMvqk
PPS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXQGLjBYLUU
--- In
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote:
He's doing a take-off on some new agish types, right? This is a
joke, right?
No, it's not a joke. From what I've heard, it's a very messed up cult trip
where the guy controls people by telling them, Divine Mother says..., even to
the
Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): Sat Jan 05 00:00:00 2013
End Date (UTC): Sat Jan 12 00:00:00 2013
550 messages as of (UTC) Fri Jan 11 22:52:23 2013
50 doctordumb...@rocketmail.com, UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR.
49 Share Long
Edg this is the best ever. I LOVE the sound effects. More, more. I was
cheering for you at the bifurcations. No, no, go the OTHER way! One ques:
why do you have to check your feet?
Bhairitu, I enjoyed the article about the retired woman eco warrier. Thanks
for posting that.
Well Mr.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong artofneutrality.Â
Very wonderful stuff (-:
Ah, more healing. Gosh, you seem to have an infinite capacity to
I loved that. I wonder if they panned to the audience they would find,
like two dogs and one cat there listening.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 wrote:
From TMFree, apparently a graduate of MSAE who's got his own little
thing going. Thoughts anyone?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong
artofneutrality. Very wonderful stuff (-:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote:
He's doing a take-off on some new agish types, right? This is a
joke, right?
No, it's not a joke. From what I've heard, it's a very messed up cult trip
where the guy
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong
artofneutrality. Very wonderful stuff (-:
Ah, more
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul
Matthew is probably the son of Walter Reifslager, Jr., a long-time TMer, and
grandson of a Walter, Sr., a recently deceased very community-minded and
honorable Psychiatrist in Austin. Or a close relative thereof of those two
gentlemen. Until proven to be otherwise, or to harm someone, he
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
Aw, now you've done it. EVERYONE will know what a softy, sucky person you are
Raunchy.
I think on the hedgehog it is all those little pink toes and bellybutton that
get me, plus how gently the person is holding it.
And of course Jesse,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
Aw, now you've done it. EVERYONE will know what a
softy, sucky person you are Raunchy.
I think on the hedgehog it is all those little
pink toes and bellybutton that get me,
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Emily Reyn wrote:
Very cute. Â I took the jack to a large park yesterday on Lake Washington
yesterday with another person who has large dogs - german shepherd, huskies,
a couple of rescues. Â They aren't aggressive nor is the jack so we let them
run
Wow, he is such a bad actor!! Anyone who gets taken in by this dweeb really
needs some common sense. and what's wrong with his hair?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wrote:
He's doing a take-off on some new agish
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 wrote:
Matthew is probably the son of Walter Reifslager, Jr., a long-time TMer, and
grandson of a Walter, Sr., a recently deceased very community-minded and
honorable Psychiatrist in Austin. Or a close relative thereof of those two
Ann said: when he's speaking is a dead giveaway.
In this case, if you have even a drop of intuition or reason, let alone
instinct, this guy would get you running for the door. In fact, I'd bet my life
on it.
Bet your life on what?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong artofneutrality.Â
Very wonderful stuff (-:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
Ah, more healing. Gosh, you seem to have an infinite capacity to attend these
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong artofneutrality.Â
Very wonderful stuff (-:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
Ah, more healing.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 wrote:
Matthew is probably the son of Walter Reifslager, Jr., a long-time TMer,
and grandson of a Walter, Sr., a recently deceased very community-minded
and honorable Psychiatrist in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 wrote:
Ann said: when he's speaking is a dead giveaway.
In this case, if you have even a drop of intuition or reason, let alone
instinct, this guy would get you running for the door. In fact, I'd bet my
life on it.
Bet
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong
artofneutrality. Very wonderful stuff (-:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
Ah, more
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
snip
Something must be wrong in the approach, understanding, or technology.
All those fancy words and analysis on ones side, (as well as as some
not so subtle condescending remarks previously), and the person Share on
the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius wrote:
snip
Something must be wrong in the approach, understanding, or technology.
All those fancy words and analysis on ones side, (as well as as some
not so
Just returned from Paul Wong presentation. Thank you Steve and Feste for being
so supportive. It's much appreciated. Thank you also to Mainstream. Though
Matthew is not my cup of tea, the courage behind what you said is inspiring.
From: seventhray27
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
Just returned from Paul Wong presentation.
Was it good?
 Thank you Steve and Feste for being so supportive. It's much appreciated.Â
Thank you also to Mainstream. Though Matthew is not my cup of tea, the
courage behind what you
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
wrote:
snip
Something must be wrong in the approach, understanding, or
technology.
All those fancy
Xeno not of Elea, the story of Achilles and the tortoise does not seem like a
nice spiritual paradox to me. It seems like one of those horrid math questions
on the SAT: If 2 trains are moving at different speeds away from each other
and it's 10 am but then they each go into another time zone
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
wrote:
snip
Something must be
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27 wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Xenophaneros Anartaxius
wrote:
snip
Something must be
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@ wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
This week I've been taking some workshops with Paul Wong
artofneutrality. Very wonderful stuff (-:
Jim,
It seems like the attention you got from your FE..ins (or whatever it
was) has gone to your head. I wish I could better understand what it is
you are trying to say.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@... wrote:
I am happy to see you appreciate the gravity of this
Brings to mind my father in law, former WW2 marine sniper, who then became a
long distance truck driver out of hometown San Francisco. One day in the '60's,
A couple of Hells Angels began harassing him on the freeway, riding bikes in
front of his rig, and slowing him down, just hassling him. He
This is a temple on Arunachala's pradakshina route, where Bhagavan Sri Ramana
Maharshi would stop and meditate when doing Arunachala girivalam.
This shows the actual Kumbabishekam, and the breathing life into the idol to
bestow the soul of god.
This is the last of a three-part series that
During my Christmas vacation I realized that if I'm lucky, I have about 30 more
years on this planet. I intend to use that time as juicily and joyfully as
possible, and hopefully at the exact same time add to or at least support the
enjoyment of others.
As part of this, and perhaps some of
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
During my Christmas vacation I realized that if I'm lucky, I have about 30
more years on this planet. I intend to use that time as juicily and joyfully
as possible, and hopefully at the exact same time add to or at least support
the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:
During my Christmas vacation I realized that if I'm lucky, I have about 30
more years on this planet. I intend to use that time as juicily and joyfully
as possible, and hopefully at the exact same time add to or at least support
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