Re: V19 Issues

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

I may not be of any use to anyone (long time retired), but I’m still here…
Cheers. Keith   :-)


> it seems very few developers are using this list.
> only 2 or 3 users have posted in the last couple of years.
> the majority of the community discussion has moved to the forums.
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Re: Recurring “Wrong Header” issue, same table, v17.5, Windows

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Alan, 
I think I came across a problem like you are describing many years ago.
I think 4D Tech support responded with a possible solution that was successful.
I have a feeling that it had something to do with a unique field setting that 
was set wrong, but I can’t recall exactly what happened (too long ago).
Sorry...
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: How to convert date to integer or vice versa

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Stephane,
I no longer have access to Design mode as I am retired and have let my 4D 
Partner license lapse so I’m unable to check out the latest date/number 
commands.
That said, I used to store dates as numbers in a way that sorted the numbers 
chronologically. 
I did that by extracting the day, month and year from the date and then 
combined them into a number by doing something like:
Number = 2 digit year x 10,000 + month x 100 + day
Incidentally, I think 4D doesn’t actually use integers now - all are longints 
and I used those to store numeric dates.
Hope this helps, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.


> On 9/08/2022, at 11:20 AM, Stephane Potvin  wrote:
> 
> Hello Keith,
> 
> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> I am indeed old school with 4D. I started at version 3. :-)
> 
> I am indeed looking for a simple way to populate the field with a method.
> Any idea what code would look like?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Stephane
> 
>> On Aug 8, 2022, at 18:13, Keith Goebel  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Stephane,
>> Thinking in ”old-school” 4D code, using a trigger can be a good way to 
>> enforce a field population rule but an alternative is to create the date 
>> field’s object method and populate the integer from there. The code may well 
>> be easier to find and maintain from there.
>> If you need help to do the actual conversion (and ‘de-conversion’ if that’s 
>> a word) I’m sure you’ll get plenty of suggestions if you ask.
>> HTH, Keith
>> 
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 22:51:20 -0400
>>> From: Stephane Potvin 
>>> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>>> Subject: How to convert date to integer or vice versa
>>> 
>>> I have two fields in a table which must contain the same information.
>>> One is date, the other an integer.
>>> Rather than entering the same information twice, I would like to enter it 
>>> in one field and have 4d fill the other field automatically.
>>> Can you help with the proper method to do so.
>>> Thank you.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 02:59:27 +
>>> From: Keisuke Miyako 
>>> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>>> Subject: Re: How to convert date to integer or vice versa
>>> 
>>> triggers!
>>> 
>>> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv19R5/4D/19-R5/Triggers.300-5831495.en.html
>>> 
>>> Can you help with the proper method to do so.
> 

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Re: How to convert date to integer or vice versa

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi Stephane,
Thinking in ”old-school” 4D code, using a trigger can be a good way to enforce 
a field population rule but an alternative is to create the date field’s object 
method and populate the integer from there. The code may well be easier to find 
and maintain from there.
If you need help to do the actual conversion (and ‘de-conversion’ if that’s a 
word) I’m sure you’ll get plenty of suggestions if you ask.
HTH, Keith

> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2022 22:51:20 -0400
> From: Stephane Potvin 
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Subject: How to convert date to integer or vice versa
> 
> I have two fields in a table which must contain the same information.
> One is date, the other an integer.
> Rather than entering the same information twice, I would like to enter it in 
> one field and have 4d fill the other field automatically.
> Can you help with the proper method to do so.
> Thank you.
> 
> --
> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 02:59:27 +
> From: Keisuke Miyako 
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Subject: Re: How to convert date to integer or vice versa
> 
> triggers!
> 
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv19R5/4D/19-R5/Triggers.300-5831495.en.html
> 
> Can you help with the proper method to do so.
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Re: Odd Runtime Error in Design

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Miyako, hi there.
This is just an “I’m curious” reply.
I don’t know why, but my Google search returns no hits when I enter "Error when 
executing the method "RUNTIME_EXPLORER_HDL (runtime)" at line number 239”.

Searching for “ACI0101576” (which I couldn’t find from the above search) does 
return 2 hits but neither explains the bug in any detail.

This is not the first time you have posted google search results that I just 
don’t get, which is puzzling but almost certainly appreciated by Eric.
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Where is the trace/debug command?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Thanks everyone for your replies.
Yes, there are ways to force a trace using code, but I’m referring to those 
occasions where you simply want to check a piece of code without having to make 
code additions and then deletions.
Very surprised it hasn’t been addressed by 4D yet as it’s a *very* annoying bug.
Perhaps it’s being addressed in v19 (I have not even seen that one yet).
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Where is the trace/debug command?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Randy, hi there.
Yes, after breakpoints fail to work, a Trace command does work. But that is a 
problem when you only want to stop and trace the first iteration of a loop. 
Then you have to restart 4D.
I am very surprised the problem is unfixed in v18 though…
Cheers, Keith

> On 7/10/2021, at 9:08 am, Randy Kaempen  wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
>> On Oct 6, 2021, at 3:03 PM, Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Also, v17 had a severely bad habit of ignoring breakpoints after a short 
>> time tracing code during development. I never did figure out what triggered 
>> it (modifying code in a method currently being traced?).
>> The only solution to get breakpoints working again was to restart 4D.
> 
> 
> I have seen this a lot and it continues in v18.  Oddly, I never saw it in the 
> v17 R releases.  I think it is a memory issue.  I find that the more forms 
> and methods I have open, the sooner it happens.  As you said, the only 
> solution is to restart 4D.
> 
> It was driving me nuts for a while, because I wouldn’t see a trace where it 
> _had_ to happen.  I found that if I put in a TRACE command, that still showed 
> up.  It was just the bullets that failed.  That’s how I can tell it’s 
> happening.
> 
> 
> Randy Kaempen
> Intellex Corporation

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Re: Where is the trace/debug command?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

I have encountered methods in the past that kept breaking into Trace mode 
without displaying a breakpoint.
For me, the breakpoint handling in 4D reached its lowest point with v17.
I saw methods that would continue to drop into Trace mode with no breakpoints 
showing. The only solution was
- create a new method
- copy in the code from the problem record
- delete problem method
- rename the new method (to the old method)

Also, v17 had a severely bad habit of ignoring breakpoints after a short time 
tracing code during development. I never did figure out what triggered it 
(modifying code in a method currently being traced?).
The only solution to get breakpoints working again was to restart 4D.
Cheers, Keith

PS 
If anyone knows what the trigger was or how to prevent 4D from ignoring 
breakpoints (using v17) I’d love to know as I’m doing a short stint of v17 work 
and am having to wrestle with this problem again.
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Re: Compiled Structure does not Match Data

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> …  but let's not kid ourselves
> - we all know that what happens inside 4D is actually magic. :-)

LOL
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Re: 4D Default Folder Structure

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Jörg, I am disappointed to see disharmony on the 4D list.
As far as I can tell, Jody was trying to help by advising the new 4D manual has 
a good description of the workings of the default folder.
There have been times I read the docs thoroughly without finding out what I 
needed, but overlooked checking for it in the latest docs while upgrading to a 
new 4D version.
Why are you upset with Jody?
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.

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Re: 4D Chart replacement

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jörg.
I am out of it now but we replaced it with HighCharts.
It meant minimal learning of JavaScript, but pretty easy using their templates 
and just tweaking them as required.
Allowed us to do graphs with up to 6 plotting scales (3 at each end) with full 
control of titles, legends, colours and x/y subtitles.
We were able to set it up so it all ran on the local computer (accessing 
JavaScript libraries stored locally) so no need for internet access for the 
graphs (was very fast).
HTH, Keith

> ...
> Are there any suggestions for a replacement for 4D Chart?
...
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Re: Record locking woes

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Sorry - nothing to add, but still here… :-)
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Bugs with Quick Report Editor v18.4

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Peter, it sounds like you’ve done an excellent sleuthing job and I’m sure 4D 
will want to hear about it and examine your structure to find the cause.
Cheers, Keith

> I've completed a bit more research into why and where the 'Error when
> executing the method "db_Get_field_list"' was occurring in my database, when
> loading the Quick Report editor. It happens whenever the table concerned has
> more than one field with an automatic many-to-one relationship to another
> table. One field with such a relationship is OK, but when you have a second
> one, up comes the error.
> 
> I'm posting this in case it helps someone else to understand….
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Re: Drag and drop replacement command(s)? Solved

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Have just realised I pressed send before thanking all those who supplied me 
with examples of how to go about the replacement.
So, to you all, I thank you.
Cheers, Keith

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Re: Drag and drop replacement command(s)? Solved

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
If you have no need (or interest) in my replacement for 4D’s Drag and Drop 
command, stop reading now :-).

I have (like many others no doubt) developed alternative method calls to 
replace the obsolete 4D command _O_DRAG AND DROP PROPERTIES, and include the 
calls/code below in case someone else has problems coming up with a solution.
I was able to simply drop the new calls into the draggable list boxes on many 
forms quite easily.
I have simplified some bits in this email and, hopefully, didn’t mess it up.

Some sub-calls re objects use Cannon Smith’s Object Module calls (OBJ_xxx) but 
all can be replaced with native 4D code easily (I use them out of habit).

If you can see something I’ve screwed up or missed, please let me know.
Cheers, Keith

==
Form object call sequence
---
Given 2 listboxes side by side (A and B), that are able to drag/drop in either 
direction:
Both have events enabled for
- On Begin Drag Over
- On Drag Over
- On Drop

==
Listbox A method:

C_LONGINT($0)
C_LONGINT($Source_Element_l)
Case of 
// 

: (Form event code=On Begin Drag Over)
OnDrag_Begin 

  
//
: (Form event code=On Drag Over)  //this object has been dragged
$0:=OnDrag_DragOver (->LSTBX_B_ab)  //pointer to allowed target 
listbox variable

  
//
: (Form event code=On Drop)  //Trap drop from Export Fields (removing 
an Export field)
$Source_Element_l:=OnDrag_Drop (->LSTBX_B_ab)  //pointer to 
allowed target listbox variable
If ($Source_Element_l>0)
//Do something
End if 
End case

==
Listbox B method:

C_LONGINT($0)
C_LONGINT($Source_Element_l)
Case of 
// 

: (Form event code=On Begin Drag Over)
OnDrag_Begin 

  
//
: (Form event code=On Drag Over)  //this object has been dragged
$0:=OnDrag_DragOver (->LSTBX_A_ab)  //pointer to allowed target 
listbox variable

  
//
: (Form event code=On Drop)  //Trap drop from Export Fields (removing 
an Export field)
$Source_Element_l:=OnDrag_Drop (->LSTBX_A_ab)  //pointer to 
allowed target listbox variable
If ($Source_Element_l>0)
//Do something
End if 
End case

==
  // OnDrag_Begin  

  // Action: Centralised On Begin Drag Over handling for array based listboxes.
  // Created for 4D v18 upgrade
  // Created by Keith Goebel on 17/09/2020

If (False)  //Example calls for On Drag events to/from array based listboxes.
OnDrag_Begin 

  //$0:=OnDrag_DragOver (->LSTBX_MBR_Select_2_ab)  //pointer to allowed 
target listbox variable

C_LONGINT($Source_Element_l)
$Source_Element_l:=OnDrag_Drop (->LSTBX_MBR_Select_2_ab)  //pointer to 
allowed target listbox variable
If ($Source_Element_l>0)
  //do something
End if 
End if 

  // 

  // Declare local vars
C_TEXT($DragSourceName_t)
C_LONGINT($Column_Nb_l)
C_LONGINT($Row_Nb_l)
C_POINTER($Source_Object_p)
C_OBJECT($OBJ_o)

  
//
CLEAR PASTEBOARD  //clear special Drag and Drop 4D pasteboard
  // 
  //Store name of current listbox variable and dragged row number
$Source_Object_p:=OBJECT Get pointer(Object current)
LISTBOX GET CELL POSITION($Source_Object_p->;$Column_Nb_l;$Row_Nb_l)
If ($Row_Nb_l>0)
$OBJ_o:=OBJ_Create 
//subcall creates the object using Cannon Smith’s Object Module
$DragSourceName_t:=OBJ_Get_Object_Name ($Source_Object_p;0)
//subcall returns the pointed-to variable's name
OBJ_Set_Text ($OBJ_o;"Source_Object";$DragSourceName_t) 
//subcall stores the text in the object using Cannon Smith’s 
Object Module
OBJ_Set_Long ($OBJ_o;"Source_Element";$Row_Nb_l)
//subcall stores the longint in the object using Cannon Smith’s 
Object Module
SET TEXT TO PASTEBOARD(JSON Stringify($

Re: Drag and drop replacement command(s)?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to everyone who replied.
Looks like there is no new command to replace the dropped command…

Wayne:
> The best documentation is in the introduction to the topic:
> https://doc.4d.com/4Dv18/4D/18/Drag-and-Drop.300-4505037.en.html

Thanks for your advice.
I have been through that doc many times, thinking I must have missed it, but 
can find no mention of how to get the drag source variable or dragged element 
during the On Drop event.
Perhaps I did (and still do) miss it…?

> A better place to ask this sort of question is on the new forum:
> https://discuss.4d.com

Unfortunately it doesn’t work well from my older Mac, and there is no digest 
version.
There is a summary version but clicking the links doesn’t work without separate 
login which doesn’t remember the previous login inputs, etc.
I guess I’m being lazy :-)

Jeremy:
> Yes, there is a much easier way to handle Drag and Drop

So, if I am understanding you correctly, we need to replace the command with:
- create an object during On Begin Drag Over (source object)
- store the source listbox variable (pointer/name?) and its current element 
in the object (will test if dragged element is known at this point)
- store the stringified object onto text pasteboard
- trap On Drop event for target listbox and extract source info from text 
pasteboard
- load JSON object back from text pasteboard
- extract source listbox (pointer/name?) and dragged element from object
- continue process as usual

Many thanks for pointing out the steps needed. 
Seems we will all have to do a lot of recoding to replace a single very simple 
command that is no longer available. I guess we’ll never know why 4D did that.

Chip:
Thanks for your offer of example code.
Yes please… :-)

Cheers, Keith

> On Sep 13, 2020, at 12:06 AM, Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I’m upgrading a structure to v18 (Win) and am trying to replace the obsolete 
> command
> _O_DRAG AND DROP PROPERTIES($Source_Object_p;$Source_Element_l;$Process_ID_l)
> with the v18 equivalent for the purposes of handling drag and drop between 
> two array based list boxes.
> 
> I’m sure must be an easy way to do it but I just can’t find it.
> 
> Can anyone point me in the direction of the info I need to accomplish the 
> equivalent of the old command?
> TIA, Keith
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Drag and drop replacement command(s)?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
I’m upgrading a structure to v18 (Win) and am trying to replace the obsolete 
command
_O_DRAG AND DROP PROPERTIES($Source_Object_p;$Source_Element_l;$Process_ID_l)
with the v18 equivalent for the purposes of handling drag and drop between two 
array based list boxes.

An element in either listbox can be dragged to the other listbox and, upon 
dropping, have the source listbox and dragged element number checked for 
correctness and processed relevantly.

I have checked the documentation for Language Ref, Deprecated or Removed 
Features, Pasteboard theme, and KnowledgeBase but can find no explanations or 
examples anywhere that tell me how to identify the dragged source listbox and 
element.
I can’t find any v18 demo db that mentions drag and drop in its name.
I’m sure must be an easy way to do it but I just can’t find it.

Can anyone point me in the direction of the info I need to accomplish the 
equivalent of the old command?
TIA, Keith

PS: I know about the new 4D NUG list but it doesn’t work well on my old Mac and 
I still see some activity on this one.
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Re: Native 4D code to convert numbers into text?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> I'm looking for code that converts something like this:
> 24120.10 into something like this:
> twenty-four thousand, one hundred and twenty point one

David, I have 4D code that converts your value into "Twenty Four Thousand One 
Hundred Twenty Dollars and Ten Cents”.
It uses the example code your links pointed to, plus a little more.
I think it could be altered to get your required result.
If interested, contact me off list.
Cheers, Keith
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Not the only one

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

It’s good to see I’m not the only one still watching this list.
:-)
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Discuss.4D.com - old Safari doesn't work (is known?)

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Walt, thanks for your reply.
I’ll look into that.
I guess I’m just getting lazy and want the “NUG” software to do it all for me 
:-)
Cheers, Keith

> … I have always subscribed with the individual emails rather than the digest.
> Then just create a mail rule inside Apple Mail to move them into a separate 
> mail folder. They are threaded there and works well…
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Discuss.4D.com - old Safari doesn't work (is known?)

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

I have gotten as far as receiving a summary of new posts on the new forum 
(that’s good because I get/got the iNUG digest).
But, when I click on the new summary topic link, Safari 10.1.2 (yeah, I know 
it’s old) rejects it with “...can’t establish secure connection…”.
Firefox v76.0.1 does work if you drag a link over onto that, but it won't 
remember your last login address/password - a bit annoying that…
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Remote working with 4D networks - what are people using ?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

When I need to work from home, I connect my iMac to a PC at work using 
Splashtop.
It's just like sitting at the desk at work and it works great!
HTH, Keith
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Re: Multi-Select Dropdown Menu

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
Many good ideas have been offered for this and I thought I’d share a very 
simple solution we use for actions on listbox columns.

Sort
- first click on the column title = sort the column contents in default 
direction
- click again = sort in reverse
Keep track of the last column clicked and what direction the sort was in, in 
case you need to restore the current setup on return from doing other stuff.
If a different column is clicked, revert to the default sort direction and 
update direction arrow.

Search
In columns where a search action is offered
- show a “dropdown menu” icon in the column title button.
- right-click opens a popup menu
- All  (this restores all values)
- Multi Search
—
- distinct values of column contents

Multi Search
- open dialog with 2 columns (ticks and distinct values) allowing user to do 
multiple ticks
- offer footer buttons
- Search in List  
- Search all
- Cancel

That’s it!
Very simple and the users like it.
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Email Attachments Missing after New process ?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Allan, I have found the best way to handle emails is by storing all parts in a 
record, and then building the email from the record's parts during the “send”. 
I store the attached docs in an object field.

This allows a single email dispatcher method that simply processes the 
“outgoing - waiting for send" records in order. 
A single email sender method avoids clashes with IC calls from different 
methods at the same time (was a problem at one time - may no longer be).

Among other things, using records also allows 
- a history of sent emails
- by who, when, from where, category, source, etc
- to be archived or discarded at x months old
- a history of failed “send” attempts and what the error was
- automatic retry of failed send after x seconds
- resend
- to actual recipient
- to test address
and all other email audit actions.

But it may mean a partial rewrite of your core code…
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.

> …
> It seems to me that when building up an email using the new Mail theme 
> commands in 4D v17R6/v18, if an attachment is added to the mail object, 
> when that email object is sent to a new process using either the 'New 
> process' or 'Execute on server' commands, the attachment Property in the 
> email object is now empty and the email will NOT send due to this error 
> condition….
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RE: Re: 4D v17r4 Windows Print To PDF ignoring PAGE SETUP

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

My only suggestion here is to ensure any Print Options calls are made after Set 
Printer, as the latter can mess up options set before that command.
HTH, Keith


> On 11/10/2019, at 2:20 am, Piotr Chabot Stadhouders wrote:
> ...
> Did you find a solution for this?
> I am working on a Windows 10 64-bit machine and have the same problem
> Whatever I do to change the paper size:
> SET PRINT OPTION(Paper option;1130;820)
> SET PRINT OPTION(Paper option;"A3")
> 
> The output to Windows Print To PDF doesn’t respect any of my settings
...
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Re: 4D v17.1HF1 to v17.2HF1

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Tim, thanks for your reply.
Good to hear.
Cheers, Keith

> On 15/08/2019, at 7:00 am,Tim Nevels wrote:
> I did a v17.0HF3 to v17.2HF1 upgrade a few weeks ago and have not had any 
> problems reported so far. 
> …

>> Hi all.
>> We are using Win 4D v17.1HF1 and would like to upgrade to v17.2HF1 but 
>> haven’t the resources at the moment to test everything to see if there are 
>> any new “features" introduced since v17.1HF1.
>> I would sure like to make the upgrade as there are a lot of handy bug fixes 
>> between the 2 versions.
>> So, if anyone has made that upgrade, have you noticed any new “gotchas”?
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Re: Filter MSC Log File?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> On 19/06/2019, at 7:00 am, Tom Benedict wrote:
> Is there a way to filter the log file that is generated by MSC? I want to 
> only see the warnings or errors and filter out the rest. The log is hundreds 
> of pages and scrolling through it looking for warnings is tedious. 

Tom, I have encountered this also - it makes checking the MSC results a real 
pain.
Anyone know why 4D decided to do that?
Cheers, Keith

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Error code 203 (xbox) from 4D

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
I have encountered an error code I have never seen before and hope someone can 
shed light on it.
We are using 4D v17.1 for built client and server applications (server is 64bit 
and Client is 32bit), both running on virtual machines using Win Server 2016 
DataCenter.

I have a (very) often called project method that has been used for a long time.
Recently a user reported that there was an error, which it turned out was 
triggered in that method.

The error message was:
Error when executing the method “RPT_TOU_Alarm_Find_Exceptions” at line number 
22.
Error code 203 (xbox)

The line’s code is
ERR_CallChain_Add (Current method name)
which does nothing more than append the method name to an array used to 
determine the complete call-chain in case of an error encountered while error 
trapping is on (it wasn’t at the time).

The processes are opened using a stack size of zero so 4D decides for itself 
what size the process should be.

I can’t find any reference to this error other than error E203 for Xbox One.
Anyone have a clue what this error is?
TIA, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Problems with Microsoft Print to PDF

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Charles and Julio, thanks for your replies.

On 4/04/2019, Charles Miller wrote:
> I think the problems with odd creator o. Windows had to do with 4D as when
> I went to 17.1 it started working again.
> When using earlier 4D releases no pdf was created own windows at all

Charles, are you saying that you had problems with PDFCreator and that it 
started working again when you upgraded to 4D v17?

On 4/04/2019, Julio Carneiro wrote:
> …
> One thing I noticed was that when images were converted to JPEG, pdf printing 
> failed all the time. Resulting PDF would not open.
> When images are converted to PNG, the resulting PDF seems fine, although a 
> bit larger than expected.
> 
> So, for now, I’m using PNG conversion…
> I’ve reported that issue to 4D, and they’ve confirmed it, and opened a bug 
> report: ACI0099344. So, I’m waiting for some solution in 17.2, I hope.

Julio, we are not directly embedding images in the pdf. While some 4D reports 
do contain HighCharts graphs (by printing a form that contains a picture 
variable containing the image of the graph), the majority of the reports 
contain standard Print selection stuff.
The pdf failures mainly happen with the latter type reports.

If the “bad” pdf’s report is printed again, it works OK.

> afaik, none of the PDF plugins for 4D give you the ability to print to PDF. 
> They provide functionality for you to create and manipulate PDFs, but none 
> gives you what you get with print to PDF Creator/MS PDF.


I’ll have to do some more investigation…
Thanks for the headzup.

In case it matters, this project is an all Windows environment.
The development is done using 4D v17.1 HF1 32 bit, and the deployment is built 
applications - 64bit for server and 32bit for Client (64bit Client messes up 
the display of our HighCharts graphs in a web area).
The pdfs are all printed from a Client.

Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Problems with Microsoft Print to PDF

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Koen, thanks for your reply.
While it is comforting to know I’m not the only one in the 4D world having this 
problem, it is amazing that we are the only two :-)
I guess we’ll have to look at the pdf plugins available for 4D v17.

4D PDF Printer Plugin ?
I’m under the impression that the only 4D PDF plugin that can be “dropped” into 
an existing db and will allow you to set it as the “current” printer when 
printing a 4D report is 4D PDF Printer Plugin from eNode.
If anyone knows that I have got that wrong, please speak up…

Just FYI, and for the archives...
We were using PDFCreator but started encountering problems when using it on 
Win10 and upwards computers - that was what made us switch to Microsoft Print 
to PDF.

A Google search shows that others (using other applications) have also run up 
against this occasional “bad” pdf file generation with Microsoft Print to PDF. 
I saw no solutions offered.
Cheers, Keith


> On 2/04/2019, at 8:40 pm, Koen Van Hooreweghe  wrote:
> …
> Just to confirm I've seen issues with PDF's generated from 4D v17R3 using MS 
> PDF driver. This is happening on my Citrix account at a customers site. 
> Acrobat Reader says the document contains an error and cannot be displayed 
> correctly...
> 
>> Op 1 apr. 2019, om 05:10 heeft Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> Has anyone else encountered this problem and, if so, have you managed to 
>> determine what is causing the “bad” pdfs?

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Re: v17 web area

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Allan,
Hope you are all well.
Having Ant available for the odd bit of sleuthing sounds like a very handy 
thing to have…  :-)

I’m using v17.1 HF1 for the deployed ePro.
Server is 64bit, clients are 32bit (to stop graph bug).
V17 64bit is doing strange things to my highCharts graphs (they are not 
re-sizing to fit their area). 32 bit are OK.
Might try your solution and see if it makes a difference.

My graphs use javascript “callbacks” to make them print ready, and don’t know 
if turning off the engine will effect that.
If it works, “thanks Allan and thanks Anthony”  :-)
If it doesn’t work, well, I’m no worse off right?
 Cheers, Keith


> On 23/03/2019, at 8:00 am, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 09:57:24 +1300
> From: Allan Udy 
> To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
> Subject: Re: v17 web area
> Message-ID: <57b6c2bb-1fed-9895-9c9a-074d22cb3...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> FWIW, we recently had something similar (again in v17 Windows 64bit 
> server/32bit client), a web area showing a Google map which had been 
> working fine for ages, and then stopped working.
> 
> The solution to this was to open up the form, click on the Web Area, go 
> to the Properties window and turn OFF the option:
> 
>   Use embedded Web rendering engine
> 
> Once we did that it started working again. Thanks to Anthony Taylor for 
> working that one out for us!   :-)
> 
> Cheers,
> Allan Udy

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Re: LEP that will quit Chrome?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Chip and Lutz,
Delayed thanks for your ideas.
I have had no luck so far, but have been pulled off that task for something 
else so have been unable to keep trying.
Thanks anyway.
Cheers, Keith
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RE: exe file that can launch 4D client as well as Chrome?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Chip, Julio and Tai,
Many thanks for your replies and ideas.
Much food for thought.
Cheers, Keith

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LEP that will quit Chrome?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
I am trying to formulate a LEP command from 4D v17.0HF3 Win on Win7 (although 
it will be deployed on Win Server 2016).

The idea is to quit Chrome from within 4D.
After lots of Google searches I have tried (in my development version)

$Command_t:="TASKKILL /IM /t chrome.exe"
SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_HIDE_CONSOLE";"true") 
SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_BLOCKING_EXTERNAL_PROCESS";"false")
LAUNCH EXTERNAL PROCESS($Command_t)

and
$Command_t:="cmd.exe /TASKKILL /IM /t chrome.exe"
SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_HIDE_CONSOLE”;"false") 
SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_BLOCKING_EXTERNAL_PROCESS";"false")
LAUNCH EXTERNAL PROCESS($Command_t)

Neither has any effect - Chrome stays running.
If I show the console with
SET ENVIRONMENT VARIABLE("_4D_OPTION_HIDE_CONSOLE";"false”) 
it flashes open and then is gone before anything can be seen.

Can anyone advise me what I’m doing wrong?
TIA, Keith
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exe file that can launch 4D client as well as Chrome?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
We have a scenario where we want to use an exe file to start both 4D Client 
(v17.0 HF3 Win) and Chrome browser.
The browser has to login to a given url with a user name and password.
Also, the 4D Client has to be in front when they have finished startup.

Is all that possible?
If so, can you give me an idea how to do it, or point me point me in the 
direction of docs that will tell me how?
TIA, Keith
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Re: v17 conundrum in design

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Chuck,
I have encountered this a few times since at least v15 (now using v17.0 HF3).
The only way I found to clear it is to 
- create a new method 
- copy the code across
- delete old method
I found it impossible to “make it happen” for a reproducible bug for 4D, though 
I did report it anyway (a long time ago).

My biggest “problem” with v17HF3 on Win7 is its habit of ignoring new beak 
points after a while when debugging - what a massive pain… (i have reported it)
I have to restart 4D and then it respects the breakpoints already set on 
startup.
I hope this has been fixed but haven’t seen any mention in later version bug 
fixes.
I have not seen anyone else mention it so maybe it only affects me.
But I digress… 
HTH, Keith

> I have an object method that shows no break points either in the method or 
> when I show break points, yet it continues to stop at a particular line of 
> code and it is annoying...
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Re: Compact data file

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Fernando,
Check out the data file that has been moved to the “Old” folder.
Using v17HF3 I have found that, after compacting on Win7, the data files are in 
the opposite place they are supposed to be (i.e. the compacted one is in the 
“old” folder and the old one is now the current one).
Not saying v13 does that, but it might pay to check.
I have reported this behaviour to 4D.
Cheers, Keith


> Using MSC I can to compact the data file, but the dimension remains over 
> 100.000 Kb, and is not real because
> 
> in the data file remain only 6.000 records. Data index is 700 Kb.
> 
> I try even to use recover by tags, but the result is the same.
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Re: V15.2 to v17.0HF3 conversion problem

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

John, that’s a good idea.
In my case, the use of the “Mark One Eyeball” was probably quicker than writing 
the code and testing and then running.
For those with a massive number of forms, it would almost certainly be better 
to use your ideas.

Perhaps someone will write and donate a function to do the job that everyone 
can use.
Unless of course, 4D fix it. It has been reported but, with no way to provide a 
demo db of it, I don’t know if anything will be done about it.
Cheers, Keith

> On 24/11/2018, at 9:00 am, John DeSoi  wrote:
> You could write something to load each form and then use OBJECT Get action to 
> find the problem check boxes. 
> Or open a copy of the structure in 17R and export all the forms to search 
> them with your favorite text editor.
> 
>> On Nov 22, 2018, at 9:36 PM, Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Wish I could say I found an easy way to locate the “bad" ones by using Find 
>> in Design, but I can’t - sorry - it was a purely manual “check every 
>> checkbox on every form” chore.
>> I found only 7 forms out of over a hundred that were affected, and only some 
>> of the checkboxes on those forms.
> 

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V15.2 to v17.0HF3 conversion problem

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
Just offering a headzup on a problem I encountered after upgrading a v15.2 
structure to v17.0HF3 on Win7.

A few of the checkboxes on my forms decided to change their action to Accept.
It came to light after user reports that clicking on a certain checkbox 
dismissed the dialog.

Wish I could say I found an easy way to locate the “bad" ones by using Find in 
Design, but I can’t - sorry - it was a purely manual “check every checkbox on 
every form” chore.
I found only 7 forms out of over a hundred that were affected, and only some of 
the checkboxes on those forms.
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Built Server—Best Practices...

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Robert, don’t know it this is relevant to your situation but many years ago, to 
get around the problem of losing the backup settings when installing a new 
built application version, I setup a system where, on quit, I stored the 
backups xml file in the data folder (or a record in the data - too long ago to 
remember exactly).
Anyway, on startup it replaces the existing file with the stored file and away 
you go.
It worked really well - no problems.
HTH, Keith
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Re: Volume Shadow Copy

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Vincent and Tom, thanks for your answers - just what I wanted to know.

> You can read this blog post : 
> https://blog.4d.com/enterprise-virtual-machine-snapshot-support/
> Hope it helps

> Prior to 4D v17, Volume Shadow Copy was something to definitely avoid on a 4D 
> server. It could crash/corrupt 4D. Under v17 4D has joined the 20th Century 
> and added support for it. I haven't read the details, but I think it will 
> help 4D adoption in the enterprise world. And it could come in handy.

>> The 64bit compiled/built server application shows "Volume Shadow Copy up and 
>> running” on the first page of the server admin window.
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Volume Shadow Copy

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
We are testing 4D v17 on a Winserver 2016 virtual machine.
The 64bit compiled/built server application shows "Volume Shadow Copy up and 
running” on the first page of the server admin window.
Googling "Volume Shadow Copy” shows it to be a system that allows backups while 
an application is running.
I suspect this is not something we need or should have running aimed at 4D.

A KnowledgeBase search doesn’t find it so can anyone tell me if we need to do 
something about it and, if so, what?
TIA, Keith
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Re: PDF generation on Windows - Latest Thinking

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

We are using both pdfCreator and Win10’s “Print to PDF” printers - pdfCreator 
for pre-Win10 machines.
It switches according to the OS version.

Discovered a couple of days ago that the Win10 printer creates huge pdf files 
in comparison to pdfCreator.
One report containing graph images is around 200KB from pdfCreator and is over 
8MB with Print to PDF.
This report is sent as an attachment to an email created by 4D 
InternetCommands, and the large pdf will not send (error 10046 is given but 
it’s really because the attachment is too big).

We switched to using “Print to PDF” (where possible) when we suddenly started 
having problems with pdfCreator running in an RDP connection to the cloud that 
uses WinServer 2016 (both 4D v15.2 and v17).
Not sure why it started playing up but I though a simple switch to “Print to 
PDF” would solve the problems - except now we have the file size problem.
Hardly anything is ever straight forward...

BTW, print preview in v17 seems to have a problem as well when RDP access is 
used - it just doesn’t display anything after the print has finished (haven’t 
figured out why yet).
Cheers, Keith
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pdfCreator problem

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
We have suddenly struck a problem with pdfCreator v1.7.2 not working when using 
a built 4D Client via Remote Desktop Connection access.
It used to work, but started giving problems about a month ago (that's when we 
first detected it).

pdfCreator works just fine when the 4D Client is accessed via Ericom and the 
Chrome browser, but not when accessed via Remote Desktop Connection.
In the latter case, the problem manifests itself when the document that 
pdfCreator is told to create in the Temp folder in the User folder doesn't 
happen, and an error is then generated when the code tries to access it. The 
error can be trapped but the document is needed.
It is not a user permissions problem because the code can write csv files to 
the same folder.

It happens for both 4D v15.2 and v17.0 HF1. 
The computer is a cloud server VM running OS is Windows Server 2008 R2 
Datacenter / Service Pack 1.

Has anyone come across this or something like it?
Thanks, Keith
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Zoom box removal + window title icon placement

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
Playing with 4D v17.0 HF1 Win...

1) Zoom box removal
Is there a 4D command that will remove the zoom box stuff from a window already 
open?

2) Window title bar icon
Is there a 4D command that will insert an icon into the left end of a window 
title bar? (window already open)

I know these can be done with Win32API but just wondering if there are native 
equivalents now.
TIA, Keith
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Re: Export text columns containing carriage returns to Excel?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Brad,
I don’t know - I rarely use 4D’s export and when I do it’s only for a quick 
text file (tab delimited) export.
I do my main exports using code and the csv version follows the cvs rules and 
it works great.
Sorry I can’t share the code - it is buried in a contracted project.
I suspect there are some 4Ders that have csv export code at their fingertips 
(or in a component) that may chip in here…
Cheers, Keith

> Is there an explicit CSV option in Export Data or Quick Reports that will 
> properly 'quote' and escape any commas (or tabs, unfortunately there are a 
> few) in the exported text fields?  If 4D can produce a file that I don't have 
> to inspect and manipulate prior to importing into Excel that would be 
> wonderful. 


>> There have been a couple of “export data” related threads lately that seem 
>> to be having problems with embedded CRs.
>> Where I have CRs in the data, I save the exported data as csv and that has 
>> always solved that problem for me.
>> Perhaps there is some reason that is not suitable for you...
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Re: Export text columns containing carriage returns to Excel?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Brad,
There have been a couple of “export data” related threads lately that seem to 
be having problems with embedded CRs.
Where I have CRs in the data, I save the exported data as csv and that has 
always solved that problem for me.
Perhaps there is some reason that is not suitable for you... 
Excel can open a csv file using a double-click without problems (for me 
anyway), although I haven’t found a way to create page tabbed spreadsheets or 
pre-formatted cells, but you can embed some “commands” in the exported data 
(Sum, etc).
HTH, Keith

> I've been asked to provide an export from a legacy 4D system delivered as an 
> .xlsx file.
> 
> The challenge I'm facing is that this table contains a number of text fields 
> and the customer requires the imported column cells to retain the returns or 
> line feeds in the original text fields….
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Administrator

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

To the list Administrator:
Would it be possible to eliminate some of the headers shown for each email in 
the digest?

At the moment we see, for each email
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:32:01 -0500
From: Tim Nevels 
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Subject: Re: URGENT:  4D in Citrix or Terminal Server environment
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

What I (and hopefully other digest recipients) would prefer to see to make the 
posts easier to scan would be
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 14:32:01 -0500
From: Tim Nevels 
Subject: Re: URGENT:  4D in Citrix or Terminal Server environment

Also, I am still receiving digests to the address keit...@clear.net.nz.
That email address is dead and I am unable to stop it from here.
If you “kill” that address for me, it will prevent 2 of every digest from 
coming through.
I haven’t tried to use the <4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com> as I suspect it 
will unsubscribe my new email address (this one).
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Delay process bug

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> On 1/04/2018, at 7:00 am, Jeffrey Kain wrote:
> So, the Delay Process bug hit two servers within an hour of each other this 
> morning, after months of not having the issue.  It was weird that both of 
> them hit the bug this morning within a short period of time of each other.
> This was on 16.3 HF2, so the latest and greatest...

Hi all - this is just an FYI…
Using 4D v16.3 on Win, we have confirmed that a particular stored procedure 
(background tasks) running on “Client” will freeze whereas if it is run on the 
server it does not. 
I’ve been away for a short while but hope to work with 4D soon to try to narrow 
down the cause.
Cheers, Keith
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Collections

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
4D seem to be really fired up about the new Collection object available in 
upcoming versions.
I’ve read the examples given in the blurb, but I have yet to read anything that 
would give me an idea as to why I would want to use a Collection instead of an 
Object.
It seems as though Collections are objects that don’t need a name parameter to 
identify the content; but if I have to name a Collection, what’s the difference 
between that and an Object item?

There must be a very good reason for them, and I am sure I’m missing the point, 
but what is it?...
Cheers, Keith
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Re: 4D data on the web - what do you use?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Thank you to all who responded (there have been many of you).
Lots of food for thought, and we’ll chew them over carefully…
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Import from Excel

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Pat,
> Yes ... We wrote a procedure to import csv files. My point was that you can't 
> just use the basic 4D Import option to import such files.

We don’t use 4D’s import, so I can’t comment on whether it works correctly or 
not.

Chip,
> 
>> the problem I have found with csv is that different software creates 
>> different formats.
>> sometimes, everything is quoted, sometimes only certain values are quoted, 
>> and similar to the problem of a tab delimited text file, if the text 
>> contains a equation mark(s) everything gets screwed.

The exporting software is supposed to enclose strings and text inside “.
The importing software is supposed to be able to handle anything in a string or 
text cell, provided it is inside the enclosing ".

Agreed - sometimes Excel does not follow the cvs rules properly when it 
exports. 
But what should we expect? It’s not like they’re a large company with multiple 
programmers at their disposal… bless their little cotton socks!
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Import from Excel

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Pat,
As I understand it, in a cvs file, all string values should be enclosed inside 
“.
This means that a CR is simply part of the cell’s string.
If you open the exported file with a text editor, you should see the CR 
enclosed inside “.
If it isn’t, the Excel export is not working correctly.
If it is enclosed, I would be looking at the code doing the import - it is not 
working correctly.
Cheers, Keith

> Keith - if you export from Excel to csv, you still have the problem with
> embedded Return characters.

>> Sometimes an Excel csv export doesn’t comply completely with the cvs
>> rules, but mostly it does.

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RE: Import from Excel

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Ferdinando ,
If you convert the Excel file to csv, you shouldn't have any problems with 
cells containing carriage returns/line feeds when you import into 4D.
I assume 4D’s built-in import can handle csv files - I haven’t checked - we use 
special import and export code to handle csv so we don’t use 4D’s built-in 
stuff.

Sometimes an Excel csv export doesn’t comply completely with the cvs rules, but 
mostly it does.
HTH, Keith
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Re: [SAD NEWS] legendary developer and 4D base-rock Ortwin Zillgen

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Ortwin was a frequent contributor here.
I always took notice of his advice, and will miss it.
His passing adds pressure to the realisation that we have to do the things we 
want, asap, because you never know…
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Stored procedures not waking up?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all. 
For some time, on this list, there has been talk about a v16 problem where, 
periodically, stored procedures that have been paused will not wake up. The 
reports I’ve seen have indicated there is no way to duplicate the problem on 
demand.

We are currently in 4D v15.2 and want to move to v16 , but the thought of this 
happening to us is so scary that we have held off, waiting for 4D to fix it.
Today I was informed that there is no 4D registered bug for this problem.
I was amazed, and am now wondering if we have been remiss in not upgrading to 
v16.3.

All thoughts on this will be gratefully received.
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Gridline for header in Listbox

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Alan, I noticed this too - it does look odd - and I couldn’t find a command to 
do it, so I found a work-around…

Because my listboxes have the zebra stripes (every 2nd row has a light grey 
background), I simply reversed the order of the row colour in the design window 
- the grey ones now come first so there “seems” to be a header border.
HTH, Keith

> Any idea how to set horizontal gridline only for header but not rows in 
> Listbox in 4D 15.5?
> 
> On Mac, there’s horizontal line for header automatically which looks good. 
> However, on Windows 10, no line for header which looks odd...
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Re: [Warning] Settings properties values on object field by object notation

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

I think the “standard behaviour” answer is a mistake on the part of 4D, and I 
hope they will reconsider their stand on this.
As others have said, “Target:=value“ should always mean the target gets changed 
to the value. 
Anything else is “non-standard behaviour”.
It may be tricky to make it happen in this instance, but it needs to be done. 
Just my $0.02…
KG

> If it is true that this wasn’t implemented as we naturally think it should 
> have been for performance reasons, I’d like to express that I would prefer it 
> to be slower and know that it is saved than faster and find out later it 
> wasn’t saved.
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v16 - our print preview issue - solved

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
We had a problem with all versions of 4D from v15.4 upwards, on Win7:
- print preview using XPS Viewer freezes 4D.

It was determined that the preview file being created in the Temp folder had an 
extension of 4DPreview instead of the required XPS extension.

4D Tech support were involved (thank you) and were unable to duplicate the 
problem.

Our solution:
- set the printer port of the Microsoft XPS Document Writer to XPSPort: Local 
Port (ours was automatically set to LPT1: Printer Port during XPS installation, 
way back).
All versions of 4D up to, and including, v15.2 had no problem with the LPT1 
setting.

I hear you ask - why still on Win7? 
Because I still have to deal with v13 and that’s not certified for Win10.

HTH somebody.
Cheers, Keith
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Away

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

In case anyone is trying to contact me, I will be away from my desk for 4 weeks 
starting Sunday.
It’s going to be a pity to miss out on the large threads going at the moment - 
lots of great observations and comments.
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

We have been using Confluence and JIRA for several years now, and love them.
With one exception:
We setup our entire Online Help system in Confluence; a button click in 4D 
takes you to the relevant Confluence page.
Worked really well until recently when they decided to prevent url link logins.
This means our Help system no longer works easily, which is a real bummer.
We’re talking to them but they are a large organisation and we feel like an ant 
versus Microsoft - they don’t seem to care.
No doubt we’ll figure something out…
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Set Print Option clarity needed

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for your reply.
Sounds like I have just been incredibly lucky so far that print settings have 
not been messed up by a second process.
I like to do the print settings at the start of a long print job so the user 
can start it and forget it - rather than have it stop when finally ready to 
print and wait for the user to intervene. 
Looks like I should re-think that idea.

Once I can get to v16, with its ability to change page orientation inside a 
print job, all should be well - unless there is going to be a problem with 
having more than 1 print job open at a time...
Cheers, Keith

> On 30/06/2017, at 2:38 pm, Keisuke Miyako wrote:
> printing has always been a global operation.
> 
> after all, it is the application that is doing printing, not the process.
> 
> so if you OPEN PRINTING JOB in a process and hold (TRACE for example; just 
> close the progress window on Mac)
> then call SET PRINT OPTION in a different process,
> you get the error 1009 telling you can't do that once a printing job has 
> started.
> 
> you might want to use a semaphore to make sure only one process prints at a 
> time.
> 
>> 2017/06/30 8:01、Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> のメール：
>> 
>> I have not tested it as experience has taught me that current behaviour can 
>> change if the docs say something and the actual behaviour is something else 
>> and the engineers decide to fix it - so I would prefer to clearly understand 
>> the docs and how to prevent a clash between processes.

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Re: Automatic type-ahead on single-column listbox?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Probably not what you are looking for and perhaps this approach has already 
been discussed…
When I want to let the user reduce the selection shown in a listbox, I add a 
search field above it and they just enter what they are looking for in that.
You can create a “type-ahead” response to an entry in the search field.

A nice touch it to actually search all columns for values that start with the 
entered value, to prevent having to assign a specific column to the search.
Users seem to like it…
Cheers, Keith

> On 29/06/2017, at 6:21 pm, Davis Adams wrote:
>> Is that actually type-ahead or simply setting the scroll on the edited
> text with a wildcard?
> 
> Don't know...but it's just what I need for my simple uses. It would be nice
> to have it in listboxes, but I guess that would take having a mechanism for
> identifying with column has focus. Although in the case of a listbox with
> one visible column, that's not too hard to figure out, I should think.

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Set Print Option clarity needed

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
In the v16 Conversion doc, I noticed the following instruction.
I see it was the same from at least 4D v13, and it has caused me no problems so 
far, but I'd like to make sure there are no problems in the future...

The SET PRINT OPTION command is used to modify, by programming, the value of a 
print option. Each option defined using this command is applied to the entire 
database and for the duration of the session as long as no other command that 
modifies print parameters (PRINT SETTINGS, PRINT SELECTION without the > 
parameter, etc.) is called...

What does this actually mean?
- does "entire database" mean all printing for the current process or all 
printing for all processes? (I assume the latter)
- does "duration of the session" mean until the user quits or until the process 
finishes? (I assume it is "user quits”)

Let's say that I have 2 processes, each doing a report that takes a while and 
they both set the same Print Option but with different values at the start of 
their process, does the above mean that the latest of the processes will 
over-rule the Print Option set in the first process?

I assume that if the reports are inside a print job (except for page 
orientation) , their settings will not be affected, but what if they are not in 
a Print Job or the page orientation is changed in the second process?

I have not tested it as experience has taught me that current behaviour can 
change if the docs say something and the actual behaviour is something else and 
the engineers decide to fix it - so I would prefer to clearly understand the 
docs and how to prevent a clash between processes.

Thanks for any clarity you can offer me.
Cheers, Keith

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RE: v16 sort editor

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Timothy, thanks for your reply.
I presume it wouldn’t take much to add a "sort fields” command to the existing 
sort and expression editor, but what do I know…
I will try your suggestion.
Thanks, Keith

> I think the only reason the Query Editor has the fields in alphabetical order 
> is because of the recent redesign.
> I am not sure if there is any plan to redesign the Sort Editor; it certainly 
> isn't listed as a bug.
> So, to work with the current behavior, I think you can use the SET FIELD 
> TITLES command:…
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Re: Web Areas On Form Page >1

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Actually, the variable names are all the same - it is the object names that are 
different.

> Using 4D v15.2 Win we have forms with 7 or 8 web areas on different pages - 
> all work fine.
> I can’t get at the code at the moment but I think I just made sure each web 
> area had a different variable name.
> If that’s not it, I’ll send another message.
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Re: Web Areas On Form Page >1

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Using 4D v15.2 Win we have forms with 7 or 8 web areas on different pages - all 
work fine.
I can’t get at the code at the moment but I think I just made sure each web 
area had a different variable name.
If that’s not it, I’ll send another message.
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Re: Favorite tricks and keystrokes: Please take one and leave on

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

I don’t have any that haven’t already been mentioned, but I *really* miss:

from Arnaud:
- cmd+click on fold/unfold arrows (collapse/expand current level), came with 
v11 and gone with v12. 

Having this back would save me some time every day now spent manually 
closing/opening arrows so the required hierarchy shows - close all or expand 
mostly doesn’t do what I need.
No workaround.

from Koen:
- the split pane feature
Workaround = copy the code to a dummy method and have it open beside the real 
method.

I wish wish wish it was possible for 4D to restore that functionality.
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Unable to connect to 4D Server

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
We have a built 4D v15.2 Win 64bit server and client application.
The client runs on a separate machine from the 4D server machine and they are 
on separate AWS servers in the cloud.
The existing version works well (I think the OS is Windows Server 2008 R2).

Our IT guy is setting up new servers running Win Server 2012 r2 and is having 
problems getting the client to connect to the server.
The client application will connect if run as the domain administrator on the 
client machine, but not if run as the user administrator.

He tells me that, in both cases, ports 19812,19813 and 19814 are open, and the 
client application has permission to run.
He can't find a .4DLink file in the old version's user's folders so we can't 
try using that.

Does anyone have any idea of any settings that might have been missed?
Cheers, Keith
There are 3 kinds of mathematician. Those who can count, and those who can't.
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Re: Lost window cursor

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

That’s it! Many thanks.
I know I looked there but didn’t see it (on Win7 anyway).
Note to self - don’t look for icons when you’re tired!
:-)

> On 11/05/2017, at 12:01 pm, Keisuke Miyako wrote:
> /4D.app/Contents/Resources/Cursors
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Re: How to clear a webpage from a web area?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Cannon,
Thanks - I will try that when I get back on-site.
Cheers, Keith


> On 11/05/2017, at 12:01 pm, Cannon Smith wrote:
> No sure about using the variable, but I do this when I need to get a blank 
> web area:
> 
>   WA OPEN URL(*;"vtWebArea";"about:blank") 
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Lost window cursor

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Greetings.
I have a need to document the "lost window" cursor you get when the active 
window is hidden behind another window.
I know we should always prevent this happening but there is one situation I 
cannot avoid and need to document it and need a picture of that cursor.

I am not in the position (at the moment) to install special software to allow a 
screen capture that includes the cursor.
I expected the cursor to be somewhere inside the 4D Application folders but I 
can't find it.  
Anyone know where it lives?
Cheers, Keith
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How to clear a webpage from a web area?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
Using 4D v15.2 Win7:
In a dialog I have a web area that is displaying a webpage and I want to simply 
clear it to show nothing.
I have tried 
- clearing the URL variable from a button
- adding "WA REFRESH CURRENT URL(URL_t)" after clearing URL_t
but after the button script finishes, 4D simply restores URL_t to its original 
value and re-displays that webpage.
What am I missing?
Cheers, Keith
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"Placeholder" in property list

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> On 23/04/2017, at 5:03 am, Jeffrey Kain wrote:
> Has anyone noticed that in 15.4 (HF2... maybe others) there's a new property 
> for fields and variables called 'Placeholder' that automatically fills an 
> empty field with descriptive text in a light gray font color,…

They’re a great addition to the UI tools. 
I use them in 4D v15.2 and the users like them a lot!
(still using that version as Print Preview causes 4D to freeze in v15.4 - but 
it seems I am the only developer it happens to)
Cheers, Keith
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Re: How to collapse/expand all panes in Property List (v16)

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

If this disparity between 32 bit 4D and 64 bit 4D exists for other than the 
developer interface stuff, !hat’s quite scary thought!

With testing done in standalone and deployed on server = server could have bugs 
not there in test version.
That also means 2 complete sets of testing is required - one for standalone and 
one for client/server.
That’s a *big* extra burden.
We are still in v15.2 so it doesn’t apply, but what are you v16 users doing for 
testing deployment versions?


> On 30/03/2017, at 4:28 am, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote:
> 
> rom: Kirk Brooks >
> Subject: Re: How to collapse/expand all panes in Property List (v16)
> Date: 29 March 2017 5:59:23 pm NZDT
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com >
> 
> 
> Hi folks,
> It looks like this is a legitimate bug and has been logged by 4D.
> 
> On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 6:02 PM, Kirk Brooks  > wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> In v16 it seems I the ability to collapse all panes in the Property List
>> (when editing a form) is removed. Since at least v13 you could control
>> click on a pane arrow to collapse/expand all. Now that doesn't work - at
>> least on a Mac.
>> 
>> Is this a bug or a feature?
> 


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Re: 4D freezing on print preview

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Keith, thanks for the info.
FYI, I’m also use 4Dv15.2 on OS X 10.10.5 + print preview without any problems.
Cheers, Keith

> On 25/03/2017, at 4:32 am, Keith Culotta <k...@compdim.com 
> <mailto:k...@compdim.com>> wrote:
> Just to add a datapoint, 4D Mac v15.current seems to be the only app that 
> causes Preview to unexpectedly quit when getting a print preview.  It does 
> not affect 4D however.
> 
>> On Mar 23, 2017, at 4:07 PM, Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> So, nobody else in the world has encountered this?
>> That’s good for you but bad for me…
>> 
>>> Hi all.
>>> We are using 4D v15.2 on Win7, Win10, Win Server 2012 (or similar). All 
>>> good.
>>> 
>>> We have just tested 4D v15.4 and v15.4 HF1 and found both to freeze 
>>> whenever we print preview a report.

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4D freezing on print preview

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
We are using 4D v15.2 on Win7, Win10, Win Server 2012 (or similar). All good.

We have just tested 4D v15.4 and v15.4 HF1 and found both to freeze whenever we 
print preview a report.
All seems to work fine until about the point where 4D would hand off control to 
XPS Viewer, and then 4D freezes.

After force quit, starting the exact same structure (and data) with 4D v15.2 
and print preview works fine, so I don’t believe it is the XPS printer at fault.

We were in the final stages of testing our application prior to releasing a new 
version that was going to use 4D v15.4.
This show stopper has prevented that.
4D Tech Support are unable to duplicate the problem.

Has anyone else seen this?
Did you find a way to fix it?
Cheers, Keith
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Re: tab seperated text - what to use for Cr

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> I tried that -
> it too creates a new row in excel when opened/imported.

csv format will do the job, if that format is permitted for your purpose.
You’ll need to enclose text fields with “ to keep contained CRs safe.
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Re: Copy or Drag from a listbox?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

I’d like to offer a belated thank you to everyone who replied to my post and 
offered suggestions how to do it.
Much food for thought.
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Please vote for this feature request: Raise the 31 character limit

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

On 7/03/2017, at 8:55 am, Timothy Penner  wrote:
> 
> Don't click on the green + under the "Average" heading.
> The green + expands the breakdown of the Average.
> 
> Instead, you should see 4 stars to the RIGHT of the green plus under the 
> "Rate This" heading.

OK that works - thanks Tim.
In my defence, it never occurred to me to try to click a disabled star button - 
they look disabled - they are dull grey.
If they were the bright colour they become on mouse rollover, I would probably 
have clicked it before.

Which takes me to “I hate interfaces which hide their choices” - but I’ll stop 
there :-)
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Copy or Drag from a listbox?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to John and Kirk for your ideas.
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Saved query files (.4df) and changes from v12 to v15 - automated conversion?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

…
> For a number of reasons we decided to shield our users from 4D’s new query 
> dialog, which we find not intuitive…

That surprises me.
We found the v15 4D search interface really easy to understand.
I guess we must be used to very different interfaces.
Cheers, Keith

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4D v15.4 print preview freeze

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
Using Win7, I have just started testing with compiled and interpreted v15.4 and 
found that print preview is broken.
The printing happens but before the preview screen opens 4D freezes = force 
quit.

v15.2 works correctly for same structure.
No test on v15.3.

I have tested this using the Print Preview command and by setting it in the 
printer settings dialog = both result in a freeze.
If the report is sent to a printer (e.g. PDF995 or PDF Creator), it works OK.

Has anyone else come across this show stopper?
Cheers, Keith
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Copy or Drag from a listbox?

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi all.
A client has asked: 
I have the list (selection based listbox) showing  the records I'm interested 
in, and I have set the columns to show only those I want and put them in the 
order I want them (all available from the list interface).
Why can't I select the rows and copy/paste or drag and drop them onto an Excel 
spreadsheet instead of having to go through the export interface? (they select 
the fields and order to export).

Using 4D v15.2 on Win7, I've played briefly with setting a listbox to Draggable 
and tried dragging a selected row to an Excel spreadsheet and also to a 
NotePad++ doc, but nothing happens.
I don't think drag and drop can be done because if you click a row (to drag it) 
that is already selected with other rows, only that row remains selected.

I can't think how to do it using copy/paste.

If we could do this, it would certainly be a big plus for our application in 
the eyes of our users (well, this particular user anyway :-).

Does anyone know if the above idea is possible?
Cheers, Keith

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RE: Better variable names

[Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech]

> This tech tip should help explain the difference between +1 and voting:
> 
> Tech Tip: How to vote for a feature request
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76726 
If doesn’t explain the list of users I had to select one from in order to 
precede with the vote (it appeared after I clicked a star),
I think the users were the currently logged-in members of the forum (except my 
name was omitted).
I had no idea what that was about so gave up trying to log a vote,
:-(
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Re: Website development path

[Keith Goebel]

> On 19/01/2017, at 9:00 am, ernie hilgers wrote:
> …
> Its no use to talk to web developers for that matter because all praise their 
> tools only.  Mention 4D and blank stares or repulsion is the reaction...

That is our experience.

The reason I started this thread was because we had a website developed using 
Java and Flash which used SQL to get the 4D data and TomCat to serve it. It was 
developed outside 4D by a non-4D programmer and needed virtually no 4D code 
changes (apart from a special method to handle login access and a couple of 
others).
This worked very well - he got on with his web work and I got on with mine 
(on-going development of the client/server version).

The web system died (apparently thanks to Java dropping ODBC support) when we 
moved from 4D v13.5 to v15, and we now have to rewrite it (the web system) and 
our new web developer has to decide “using what?" to do it.

I idea of this thread was to find out from other 4D people what system(s) they 
use to develop and deploy their website.
There have been many replies but virtually none that don’t require a 4D 
programmer to be involved to a large extent.

It is looking like the world of web deployment using 4D data is not so diverse 
after all.
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Query editor in v15

[Keith Goebel]

> On 18/01/2017, at 2:40 pm, Keisuke Miyako wrote:
> you could just activate the "execute on server" method property if you need 
> that function in your QBF
> 
>> 2017/01/18 5:15、Keith Goebel <keit...@clear.net.nz 
>> <mailto:keit...@clear.net.nz>> のメール：
>> If my "execution"assumptions are wrong for any items, please let me know.

Thanks for your reply.
That’s what I do now but the advice from Thomas was to change the compatibility 
settings to “unleash the power”.

I want to do that, but need to see the doc(s) that clearly explain how the "x 
by formula" commands will work (i.e.; what each call scenario will do. as per 
my example calls).

Is there any such documentation (we’re using 4D v15.2) that you know of?

I could just test it to see which runs on the Server and which on Client, but 
any behaviour that is undocumented has more chance of changing in the future.
Cheers, Keith

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Re: Query editor in v15

[Keith Goebel]

On 10/12/2016, at 1:57 am, Thomas Maul wrote:
> >In our v11 update trainings we said "first thing to do, is to open 
> >compatibility and check the first 3 check boxes. I assume you still have 
> >them disabled? You lost a lot of power in the last years..."

Now using 4D v15.2 Win, I am guilty of this - it is something I have put off 
out of fear of breaking existing code.

I use a full mixture of fields, local vars, process vars and methods in the 
various "xx by formula" calls I use, and would like to understand exactly what 
behaviours will change before I change the compatibility settings.
I have re-visited the v11 upgrade pdf and can only find a mention of:
"In a client/server environment, these commands are now executed on the server 
side. As a consequence, local variables can no longer be used.
For the sake of compatibility, in former converted databases, the functioning 
of previous versions of 4D is kept (sequential operations)."

The v12 and v13 upgrade manuals don't mention this again.

v15.3 Lang Ref SET DATABASE PARAMETER # 46 - "Chercher par formule serveur”  
(I’m sure that means "Query by formula on server")
This says 
"... the formula must not contain any calls to a method, otherwise it will 
automatically be switched to the remote machine."

The upgrade manuals don't mention this.
Neither does the v15.3 Lang Ref - QUERY BY FORMULA command description.

I'm finding it confusing and would love some clarity.
To that end, I have a list of some calls I am using and my interpretation of 
what will happen to them if I change the compatibility settings as recommended 
by Thomas.
I would be very grateful to have my assumptions confirmed/corrected.
Query and Order By calls examples:
QUERY SELECTION BY 
FORMULA([Check_Meter];[Check_Meter]This_Reading_Number<[Check_Meter]Last_Reading_Number)
Parameter 1 = table 
Parameter 2 = field value
Parameter 4 = field value
execution on server machine
QUERY SELECTION BY 
FORMULA(INV_Table_p→;(Abs([Invoice]Alarm_Charge_Dollar))>=RPT_Alarm_Value_r)
Parameter 1 = process variable pointer to a table 
Parameter 2 = absolute field value
Parameter 4 = process variable
execution on server machine
QUERY SELECTION BY 
FORMULA(Account_Table_p->;(Abs($Account_Charge_Alarm_p->))>=RPT_Alarm_Value_r)
Parameter 1 = process variable pointing to a table 
Parameter 2 = absolute value of a field pointed to by a local pointer
Parameter 4 = process variable
execution automatically switched to the remote machine
would execute on server machine if parameter 2 (local pointer to a field) is 
changed to a process variable pointer
QUERY SELECTION BY FORMULA(Account_Table_p->;RPT_Find_Exceptions ("Sel")=1)
Parameter 1 = process variable pointing to a table 
Parameter 2 = method
execution automatically switched to the remote machine
QUERY SELECTION BY FORMULA([Check_Meter];INV_Get_OverDue ("Sel")=1)
Parameter 1 = table 
Parameter 2 = method
execution automatically switched to the remote machine
ORDER BY FORMULA ([Invoice];Round([Invoice]Capacity-[Invoice]Max_Demand;0);>)
Parameter 1 = table 
Parameter 2 = field values calculation + rounding
execution on server machine
ORDER BY FORMULA ($Table_p->;Substring($Field_p->;1;80);>) //will sort by text 
field SLOWLY
Parameter 1 = local pointer to a table 
Parameter 2 = substring of a text field pointed to by a local pointer
execution automatically switched to the remote machine
would execute on server machine if local pointers are changed to a process 
variable pointers
ORDER BY FORMULA ([TOU_Contract];Sort_TOU_Contracts_4_Dtls (→$UniqueID_at);>) 
Parameter 1 = table 
Parameter 2 = method + local variable
execution automatically switched to the remote machine
ORDER BY FORMULA ([Account];INV_Get_OverDue ("Sort");<)
Parameter 1 = table 
Parameter 2 = method
execution automatically switched to the remote machine

Thanks for your patience if you have made it this far :-)
If my "execution"assumptions are wrong for any items, please let me know.
Cheers, Keith

From: Keith Goebel <keit...@clear.net.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 January 2017 3:54:22 p.m.
To: Keith Goebel
Subject: Query editor in v15
 

> On 10/12/2016, at 1:57 am, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com 
> <mailto:4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Thomas Maul <thomas.m...@4d.com <mailto:thomas.m...@4d.com>>
> Subject: RE: Query editor in v15
> Date: 10 December 2016 12:35:01 am NZDT
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>>
> Reply-To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
> <mailto:4d_tech@lists.4d.com>>
> 
> 
>> Query([Invoices];[Clients]City=“Los Angeles”) in the query editor
>> will be run sequentially, even if there’s an automatic relation between the 
>> two tables and even
>> if City is index

Re: Website development path

[Keith Goebel]

Thanks to everyone who replied.
Apart from recommended research to be done, a summary of a recommended web 
system is:
- Angular Wakanda using Bootstrap Admin
- Graham's Lightning component  (needs 4D developer = trying to avoid)
- use Active4D  (needs 4D developer = trying to avoid)
- NTK  (needs 4D developer?)
- use NGINX  or Apache server + use AJAX to fetch data from 4D (I thought AJAX 
was no longer in favour…?)

Is nobody using SQL to fetch the data and serve it via some other interface?
Cheers, Keith
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Website development path

[Keith Goebel]

Hi all.
Since our Java/Flash based website stopped working (something about Java not 
supporting ODBC anymore), our web developer is looking for the "best" option 
for a re-write in something else.
The question is what?

Apart from using Wakanda and 4D Mobile, or php, what other models are you guys 
using?
- are you using SQL to access the 4D data?
- if so, what tool(s) do you use to develop it with?
- what web server as the front end (Apache, NGINX, other)?

A fairly big ask I know...
TIA, Keith

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Re: Picture gallery in web area?

[Keith Goebel]

> On 10/11/2016, at 12:37 pm, Scott Staley wrote:
> I assume you've seen the imagebrowser tech note but incase not...
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=76606

Scott,
No I haven’t seen that. I will check it out - thanks.
I did a KnowledgeBase search for "picture gallery" (and some other similar 
searches) and the only item found was "Using SVG to create List Box cells with 
images and text”.
Cheers, Keith
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Picture gallery in web area?

[Keith Goebel]

Hi all.
I have seen, on the web, a type of picture gallery I would like to put on an 
input form in our 4D v15.2 Win app (in a web area).
I have been Googling for pic gallery libraries and am overwhelmed trying to 
make sense of the results, most of which seem to require php code manipulation.
I have medium knowledge of html, beginner at js, and zero knowledge of php.

Has anyone deployed a gallery similar to our ideal gallery (described below)?
If so, can you share how you did it?

The ideal is:
- available pictures will be in a preset folder
- upper central "larger" image shows first pic on open web area
- on either side will be arrows (previous/next)
- click on the larger pic and it expands to cover the entire web area until 
a click anywhere to revert back to what was
- below will be a narrow horizontal bar with thumbnails of available images, 
able to be scrolled sideways
- on the bar, the "current" pic will be highlighted in some way
- as the cursor is hovered over a thumbnail, the pic will show as the 
larger pic above, but that won't stay "big" until the thumbnail is clicked.
- a click on a thumbnail moves it to the centre pic in the bar
- a black background all round might look nice

Not asking for much am I... :-)

If there is no info forthcoming, I guess I can always do it using native 4D - 
might not look as good.
I haven't tried it but, if I use 4D, perhaps I could use a 1 row array listbox 
as the thumbnail bar (each column would contain a picture array with 1 
element)...
TIA, Keith


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Re: Listbox cell - On Data Change - how to tell old and new values?

[Keith Goebel]

Wayne, thanks for your reply.
I’m not sure how this can help me.
In several places I need to check the old value against the new value (when the 
new value is entered) and take the appropriate action, which may include 
resetting several other fields in the record.

I know I could add a lot of code to manually store the field contents whenever 
a record is loaded, and to update it whenever a field is changed, but that will 
be a time consuming and clunky work-around for something that is already inside 
4D - somewhere.

The v15.1 Lang Ref manual says:
The Old command returns the value held in aField 
<http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.1/Old.301-2685046.en.html#> before the field was 
programmatically assigned a value or modified in data entry.
…
Old works on aField <http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.1/Old.301-2685046.en.html#> 
whether the field has been modified by a method or by the user during data 
entry.
...

Since 4D v15.2 does not do this in a selection based listbox, does anyone else 
think this is a 4D bug?
Cheers, Keith

> On 27/10/2016, at 7:54 pm,Wayne Stewart wrote:
> Look at On Display Detail
> 
> On 15 October 2016 at 10:19, Keith Goebel <keit...@clear.net.nz 
> <mailto:keit...@clear.net.nz>> wrote:
>> Kirk, thanks for your reply.
>> I would have thought so too, but it doesn’t (for me anyway).
>> The Old value, when tested by the On Data Change event, matches the entered 
>> value not the value before the cell edit.
>> 
>> Seems weird that nobody else on this list has a need to do this.
>> I wish i could say “I’m first!” for things other than 4D “unexpected 
>> features".:-)
>> 
>>> … I'm not sure how long you can count on modified changes NOT
>>> being saved but I am certain OLD will work while you are editing that
>>> specific field...
>> **
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Re: Listbox cell - On Data Change - how to tell old and new values?

[Keith Goebel]

Kirk, thanks for your reply.
I would have thought so too, but it doesn’t (for me anyway).
The Old value, when tested by the On Data Change event, matches the entered 
value not the value before the cell edit.

Seems weird that nobody else on this list has a need to do this.
I wish i could say “I’m first!” for things other than 4D “unexpected features". 
   :-)

> … I'm not sure how long you can count on modified changes NOT
> being saved but I am certain OLD will work while you are editing that
> specific field...
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Re: Listbox cell - On Data Change - how to tell old and new values?

[Keith Goebel]

Sorry everybody - I was thinking of the wrong thing when I replied (can you say 
alzheimer’s? :-)
I still don’t know how to trap for the Old value and will try Douglas’s idea.
Cheers, Keith

> …
> There is an event the "On after edit" - any chance you can trap for that?...
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Re: Listbox cell - On Data Change - how to tell old and new values?

[Keith Goebel]

Douglas, thanks for your reply.
There is no need to trap for other events as it all works fine - as long as you 
know to add code to specifically trap for On Data Change in the column object 
method,
This is something we’ve never had to do before for objects you set only for On 
Data Change, and still don’t for anything except selection based listboxes.
That was the reason for my headzup to others.
Cheers, Keith

> …
> There is an event the "On after edit" - any chance you can trap for that?...
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Listbox cell - On Data Change - how to tell old and new values?

[Keith Goebel]

Hi all.
Using 4D v15.2 and given a selection based listbox where the master table is in 
read write mode and the columns are enterable:
- column object code triggers for On Data Change event
- in that object code I want to compare the entered field value against the Old 
field value.
Problem = for me, both values are the same (they both equal the entered value).

I can maybe fudge something using the On Losing Focus event or pre-storing 
existing values in arrays but, before I spend time trying to find a 
work-around, I am curious how others out there are handling this?
TIA, Keith
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Form events warning for selection based listbox

[Keith Goebel]

Hi all.
This is just a headzup for those using selection based list boxes.
If this was covered in 4D docs, I missed it.

For a listbox column in early 4D v13 and before, when you set the object 
properties, only the event(s) you selected would trigger.
For single event objects, I got into the habit of putting code in the object 
without any event checking as it only triggered for the specified event.

At some point this changed and 4D started adding other events and greyed them 
out in the column’s object properties events list.

I made the mistake of ignoring those, putting them down to a mistake made by 
4D, and continuing to add code in the same way = big mistake.
Those greyed out events *will* trigger and you have to code the object 
specifically for only the events you want.

For example, I added On Data Change code to a column, and was surprised when it 
triggered during On Display Detail.
The fix was to enclose the object code inside a form event condition test:
If (Form event = On Data Change)
   do stuff
End if

It appears that array based list boxes do not have this “added feature”.
Hope this saves you some of the head scratching I went through trying to figure 
out what was happening.
I had great assistance from 4D Tech Support to pinpoint my problem.

Hope this helps someone else and is not just a waste of bytes… :-)
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Parameter Passing - $N or Objects ?

[Keith Goebel]

> On 2/10/2016, at 8:00 am, Olivier Deschanels wrote:
>> So, informal poll - who’s using objects for parameter passing ?
> 
> Me ! And I’ve change all my approach of the code development thanks to the 
> objects. It’s so easy and it’s really efficient, especially if you want 
> polymorphe parameters.
> I’ve replace in my own framework dozen of variables or arrays by a little 
> number of object. It’s a dream for trace and debug…

I use 4D objects a lot, but don’t use them very much for passing parameters - 
yet.
I’ve been following this discussion (in its different guises) with interest.

Several people have said that passing a 4D object as a parameter is easy to 
debug.
Using 4D v15.2, I think I must be missing some new feature of 4D as I don’t 
understand how you can easily trace and/or debug an object when 
- only the first small part of the object is visible in the debugger?
- a Design search cannot show the methods flow that use a particular parameter?

I’m not for or against the idea - just trying to understand the enthusiasm for 
hiding parameters.
I do understand how using an object will easily allow a large and variable 
number of “variables” to be passed to the server and back for an "Execute on 
server” function, and the calling/receiving methods should know what they are 
handling so that shouldn’t be a problem.
But for general use, I’m trying to see an advantage…
Cheers, Keith


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Re: Listbox enterable - save record needed?

[Keith Goebel]

Thanks to Chip and Keith for your replies.

On 1/10/2016, at 8:00 am, Keith Culotta wrote:
> Chip is correct.  "Save" is not always needed.
> In the listboxes I was thinking about, the records were being unloaded or 
> reloaded during the editing process, so saving immediately was required.
> I just added "Read Write" to a form that contained a listbox used to display 
> records.  Edited fields saved without any save command.

Interesting…
In my test, the listbox’s table was set to Read Write.
As each cell in a row was entered, the value appeared, but when the record was 
reloaded, the changes weren’t there.

I do have to do a save anyway as the last user/date modified needs to be 
updated and (for reasons I won’t go into now) I am not using a trigger for that.
I’ll take another look at this issue as I’m interested to see why my test is 
not auto-saving and yours and Chip’s does.
Cheers, Keith


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