Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I think that we are entitled to get the banking facilities from any bank and there seems to be no doubt about the fact. However, the question remains, What if any manager denies us from availing such facilities? I think that instead of providing remedial solutions, there has also to be some disciplinary action against such culprits who are creating such problems. Not only this, these type of actions taken against such managers essentially needs to be published in any widely circulated daily. I also think that we should press finance ministry to make such rules as to fit of this type of demands, and we should also make sure that such rules shall be of such nature that these bloody elements could easily be brought to justice. Don't you think that the managers creating of this kind of problems need to be booted out from their chambers from certain time or days? I can bet with anybody, that without this kind of rules we're going so slow... and we're going nowhere!!! Thanks, Akhilesh. On 5/26/10, Vikas Kapoor dl.vi...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to supplement this by telling a very interesting incident. Few months back when I had approached to one of the dealers of the Indian Oil Corporation to have my own gas connection, I heard that a lady had also come for the same purpose. The concerned person immediately asked that lady whether she was married or bachelor, when she told that she was unmarried, he immediately denied that lady to have the gas connection and he categorically said to that lady, ham tumhen kaise gas connection de sakte hain, tum to shaadi karke kahin aur chali jaogi? (how can we provide you the gas connection, you would just run when you'll get married?) Now I don't really understand as to which of the laws of this land says that unmarried girls wouldn't have the right to own the gas connection? Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking I perceive the matter of undertakings as being afraid of anything new. Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter. Now, is not it ridiculous? A few years ago, a girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM. So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules. And rules also can be modified to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions. For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this? So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter. So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner. Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs. I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change. So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
not only banks, but each department have there own rules for disciplinary action. as a customer, you have full right to make a complaint against the service provider. i think that all members of accessindia are fully compatible to fight for their rights, because most of us have well equipped with the technology. also we had long discussion in this matter. better is to use a mechanism to lodge your complaint if so. - Original Message - From: akhilesh akhil.akhi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking I think that we are entitled to get the banking facilities from any bank and there seems to be no doubt about the fact. However, the question remains, What if any manager denies us from availing such facilities? I think that instead of providing remedial solutions, there has also to be some disciplinary action against such culprits who are creating such problems. Not only this, these type of actions taken against such managers essentially needs to be published in any widely circulated daily. I also think that we should press finance ministry to make such rules as to fit of this type of demands, and we should also make sure that such rules shall be of such nature that these bloody elements could easily be brought to justice. Don't you think that the managers creating of this kind of problems need to be booted out from their chambers from certain time or days? I can bet with anybody, that without this kind of rules we're going so slow... and we're going nowhere!!! Thanks, Akhilesh. On 5/26/10, Vikas Kapoor dl.vi...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to supplement this by telling a very interesting incident. Few months back when I had approached to one of the dealers of the Indian Oil Corporation to have my own gas connection, I heard that a lady had also come for the same purpose. The concerned person immediately asked that lady whether she was married or bachelor, when she told that she was unmarried, he immediately denied that lady to have the gas connection and he categorically said to that lady, ham tumhen kaise gas connection de sakte hain, tum to shaadi karke kahin aur chali jaogi? (how can we provide you the gas connection, you would just run when you'll get married?) Now I don't really understand as to which of the laws of this land says that unmarried girls wouldn't have the right to own the gas connection? Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking I perceive the matter of undertakings as being afraid of anything new. Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter. Now, is not it ridiculous? A few years ago, a girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM. So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules. And rules also can be modified to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions. For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this? So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter. So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner. Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs. I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change. So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Subrmanyam Namasthee. I admire your thoughts. Yes, if you are so self confident , go ahead. I shall not demotivate you. Aged almost fifty, maybe my thinking happens to be conservative. And in this particular incident I wanted to tell what I did based on my experience in organising programmes on prevention of frauds in banks. I have only shared my thoughts. One can take it or leave it. Niranjan On 5/27/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: Hai Niranjan: I know I am repeating myself but let me do that in order to clarify things... We can't see. There is a certain degree of limitations about it, but we have intelligence enough to identify between risk and non-risk situations. You have got to believe this since some of us work in places and take up responsibilities given to us believing our ability to perform well; this is not possible if we don't have the basic intelligence to decide between what is safe and what is danger? Alright, sometimes things may go wrong. I may be mugged, pocketed or someone can bash me up and take the money... This is the most common form of threat. Pl don't try convincing me that a person who is fully aware of what he/she is doing by asking the banker an ATM card is foolish enough to lose his/her money. When you and others repeatedly side with the bankers, what you say doesn't matter. What you imply by saying things like that is that we may be capable of earning the money, but we are not capable of safeguarding it. This defeats the very purpose of you and I doing a job for living. So pl don't say that, even as a token of reconciliation to the bankers. Certain things in life are non-negotiable. This obviously includes our self-esteem, self-respect and our trust in ourselves. If you don't trust you, it will be harder to convince others. This is not ego, it is the belief in yourself that you will mostly take the right decisions for yourself. I don't understand how come this is not becoming clear to many who have been siding with the bankers? I say all these without meaning any disrespect to the banking fraternity. I only request them not to act as the guardian of my money, just be a good service provider. That is all. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of niranjanraj urs Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Friends, Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be opened / made as either or survivour. It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. YS Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs On 5/26/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite another to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their finances. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Mr. Niranjan: No personal offence intended. I understand your point about dealing with frauds, but, as I said, this is something common and is not exclusive for a VI person. I respect you and salute all the work you have done for the community. Please do not mistake my self confidence for arrogance. Self confidence comes only by acknowledging that others have the same. Sorry if I sounded offensive. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of niranjanraj urs Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:55 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Subrmanyam Namasthee. I admire your thoughts. Yes, if you are so self confident , go ahead. I shall not demotivate you. Aged almost fifty, maybe my thinking happens to be conservative. And in this particular incident I wanted to tell what I did based on my experience in organising programmes on prevention of frauds in banks. I have only shared my thoughts. One can take it or leave it. Niranjan On 5/27/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: Hai Niranjan: I know I am repeating myself but let me do that in order to clarify things... We can't see. There is a certain degree of limitations about it, but we have intelligence enough to identify between risk and non-risk situations. You have got to believe this since some of us work in places and take up responsibilities given to us believing our ability to perform well; this is not possible if we don't have the basic intelligence to decide between what is safe and what is danger? Alright, sometimes things may go wrong. I may be mugged, pocketed or someone can bash me up and take the money... This is the most common form of threat. Pl don't try convincing me that a person who is fully aware of what he/she is doing by asking the banker an ATM card is foolish enough to lose his/her money. When you and others repeatedly side with the bankers, what you say doesn't matter. What you imply by saying things like that is that we may be capable of earning the money, but we are not capable of safeguarding it. This defeats the very purpose of you and I doing a job for living. So pl don't say that, even as a token of reconciliation to the bankers. Certain things in life are non-negotiable. This obviously includes our self-esteem, self-respect and our trust in ourselves. If you don't trust you, it will be harder to convince others. This is not ego, it is the belief in yourself that you will mostly take the right decisions for yourself. I don't understand how come this is not becoming clear to many who have been siding with the bankers? I say all these without meaning any disrespect to the banking fraternity. I only request them not to act as the guardian of my money, just be a good service provider. That is all. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of niranjanraj urs Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Friends, Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be opened / made as either or survivour. It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. YS Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs On 5/26/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite another to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their finances. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Friends, Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be opened / made as either or survivour. It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. YS Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs On 5/26/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite another to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their finances. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Hai Niranjan: I know I am repeating myself but let me do that in order to clarify things... We can't see. There is a certain degree of limitations about it, but we have intelligence enough to identify between risk and non-risk situations. You have got to believe this since some of us work in places and take up responsibilities given to us believing our ability to perform well; this is not possible if we don't have the basic intelligence to decide between what is safe and what is danger? Alright, sometimes things may go wrong. I may be mugged, pocketed or someone can bash me up and take the money... This is the most common form of threat. Pl don't try convincing me that a person who is fully aware of what he/she is doing by asking the banker an ATM card is foolish enough to lose his/her money. When you and others repeatedly side with the bankers, what you say doesn't matter. What you imply by saying things like that is that we may be capable of earning the money, but we are not capable of safeguarding it. This defeats the very purpose of you and I doing a job for living. So pl don't say that, even as a token of reconciliation to the bankers. Certain things in life are non-negotiable. This obviously includes our self-esteem, self-respect and our trust in ourselves. If you don't trust you, it will be harder to convince others. This is not ego, it is the belief in yourself that you will mostly take the right decisions for yourself. I don't understand how come this is not becoming clear to many who have been siding with the bankers? I say all these without meaning any disrespect to the banking fraternity. I only request them not to act as the guardian of my money, just be a good service provider. That is all. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of niranjanraj urs Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Friends, Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be opened / made as either or survivour. It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. YS Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs On 5/26/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite another to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their finances. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Niranjan may be you know, that many blind marry blind. they should ask brothers and sisters to help them useing ATM or taking money? blind people are more aware about danger, as they know to lead there life with it. how many blind people have car axident? i and my wife are both blind, and do we all our banking on our own. At 11:20 AM 5/27/2010, you wrote: Dear Friends, Namasthee to all. I feel some of our friends are unneccesarily taking tough positions on the banker. Frauds happen even to sighted persons is a good argument, but the chances of frauds committed against blind persons would be certainly higher. In our own interest it would be better to take the debitcard/ATM card in the name of spouse or any other dependable relative. For this to happen the account should be opened / made as either or survivour. It is my humble suggestion that on practical considerations both the branch manager as well as the blind customer has to be conservative in their approach and dealings.These words I am writing based on my experience of conducting a number of training programmes on preventing frauds in banks as trainer and co-ordinator in my Institute. YS Dr.B.Niranjan Raj Urs On 5/26/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite another to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their finances. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I perceive the matter of undertakings as being afraid of anything new. Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter. Now, is not it ridiculous? A few years ago, a girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM. So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules. And rules also can be modified to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions. For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this? So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter. So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner. Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs. I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change. So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of PNB, if my bank denies any services to me, i won't hesitate to avail that particular service from another bank. suppose, if your salary account exist with ABC bank but their loan rates are higher then XYZ bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully won't avail the loan facility from that bank. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
although some of our friends seem to suggest an VC persons net getting the banking facilities is because of their ego preventing them giving a simple undertaking to the bank, the rality is far from that. as Shree Rajesh Asadani, the very practice of selective undertakings from the VC persons itself has to be according to rules, not according to the fantacies of some ignorant officer. moreover, in most cases, even when the VC person is willing to give an undertaking taking up responsibilities arising out of the possible misuse of the particular facility due to his or her disability, bank officials have refused to give the particular facility. On 5/26/10, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: I perceive the matter of undertakings as being afraid of anything new. Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter. Now, is not it ridiculous? A few years ago, a girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM. So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules. And rules also can be modified to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions. For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this? So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter. So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner. Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs. I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change. So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
In case of Rajkumar Sahu, staff/customer in Bank of India, availed an overdraft facility. He enjoyed the facility completely. When the account became out of order, he blamed that being a blind person, he could not read/understand the documents/statements and the manager should have verbally told him the status of the account from time-to-time. He made a complaint to the higher authorities and the authorities viewed it seriously and fixed the responsibility of the Manager. After great difficulties, I could convince the complainant to get the complaint back and the problems was resolved. Here, I would like to clarify that I belong to PNB. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, I am not agree with you at all. here, nobody is favoring to the bankers but because many of us have been working in the different banks for the last several years so we are fully aware with the technical problems may accurse. may be many of us are not aware of them at all. its easy to criticize anyone here without knowing the facts/technical issues really the bankers are facing in daily routine work but I request to all of you, please be patience because bankers are also the part of society and their objections are also genuine but more or less, these facilities are quite dangerous for the blind persons. this is also important that if any blind person ask for all these facilities, the undertaking must be given by the accountholder, not by the parrents. this is quite illogical at all because only accountholder has a right to take any decision about his own account but this undertaking must be taken in presence of his nominee of the same account. Thanks With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why is it that the banks are so firm in denying us our due rights? In fact, it is our right not only to have accounts and subsequent facilities (check book-ATM card-netbanking etc.), but also to have proper and smooth access to these facilities. The authorities, ranging from the local to the national, have appeared more or less unwilling to provide us accessibility measures. Denial, thus, has become a easy means of escape for the authorities. Bank managers can join our struggle, in fact, by coming out of this escapism and advocating, with all their capacities, our due rights. It is quite unfortunate that instead of doing so, our friends here claiming to represent the banker's perspective are advocating things that are quite retrogressive in nature. The solution is to facilitate access instead of denying us our rights. The bank managers can either be partisans to our rights or remain neutral and follow the guidelines and the law of the land. Denial, in any case, must not have any place in the entire debate. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I don't understand why the argument is heading to risks, fraud and whether banks should or should not issue cards or cheques. The ground rule is that RBI has set guidelines and Banks have to give these facilities. Whoever fears that they can not afford to risk this, then please don't take these facilities but for god sake don't raise such immature arguments here. regards SC Vashishth 9811125521 To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
This is a stray incident. Anything can be misused, including blindness. So, what? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 12:23 PM To: B. R. Nautial; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking In case of Rajkumar Sahu, staff/customer in Bank of India, availed an overdraft facility. He enjoyed the facility completely. When the account became out of order, he blamed that being a blind person, he could not read/understand the documents/statements and the manager should have verbally told him the status of the account from time-to-time. He made a complaint to the higher authorities and the authorities viewed it seriously and fixed the responsibility of the Manager. After great difficulties, I could convince the complainant to get the complaint back and the problems was resolved. Here, I would like to clarify that I belong to PNB. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, I am not agree with you at all. here, nobody is favoring to the bankers but because many of us have been working in the different banks for the last several years so we are fully aware with the technical problems may accurse. may be many of us are not aware of them at all. its easy to criticize anyone here without knowing the facts/technical issues really the bankers are facing in daily routine work but I request to all of you, please be patience because bankers are also the part of society and their objections are also genuine but more or less, these facilities are quite dangerous for the blind persons. this is also important that if any blind person ask for all these facilities, the undertaking must be given by the accountholder, not by the parrents. this is quite illogical at all because only accountholder has a right to take any decision about his own account but this undertaking must be taken in presence of his nominee of the same account. Thanks With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why is it that the banks are so firm in denying us our due rights? In fact, it is our right not only to have accounts and subsequent facilities (check book-ATM card-netbanking etc.), but also to have proper and smooth access to these facilities. The authorities, ranging from the local to the national, have appeared more or less unwilling to provide us accessibility measures. Denial, thus, has become a easy means of escape for the authorities. Bank managers can join our struggle, in fact, by coming out of this escapism and advocating, with all their capacities, our due rights. It is quite unfortunate that instead of doing so, our friends here claiming to represent the banker's perspective are advocating things that are quite retrogressive in nature. The solution is to facilitate access instead of denying us our rights. The bank managers can either be partisans to our rights or remain neutral and follow the guidelines and the law of the land. Denial, in any case, must not have any place in the entire debate. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
There is one thing to play the devils advocate, but it is quite another to imply that all blind persons are incapable of taking care of their finances. -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Kamal: Let us not argue for the sake of it. I am sure you know that there is a website that has a list of defaulters who have defaulted over one crore and above. The shame is, banks have lent to these people more on the basis of their social standing than their actual credit worthiness. Just because a few of them have defaulted, do you stop lending to people? When you refer to some blind person who knowingly defaulted the bank, banks cannot conclude all v I's asking for our rights are either ignoramus fools or conniving thieves who do not deserve the right to access a service available to all. For that matter, what about the credit card fraudsters who change names and addresses and cheat on Banks? Do you stop giving credit cards on this basis? On the contrary I get numerous calls from tele oprtors to take one credit card or the other. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:46 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The same was to be happend in case of Rajkumar Sahu in Bank of India regarding his overdraft account. After my interference it could resolved with great difficulty. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
i agreed that the discussion has not rolled back. though, it has become healthy. one side you are happy with SBI. another side, some of blind customers are unhappy with the same. banker has to follow two things: banking law and banking practice. you can combine it by saying banking law and practice. this is law that all blind customers has full right to avail banking facilities, and it is duty of banker to provide him all the facilities without discrimination. but, only matter is law must come on practice. slowly and steadily it will change. some of us may unhappy with PNB, but, some of us are availing all facilities from the same. we can not defame the entire organisation with one wrongly treated case. it defers person to person. nobody can defame entire railway department by reporting one derailment case. all banks have a mechanism to treat customer's complaints. we have to approach right person on right way. again i am to say that i never oppose the entire matter. if anyone of us have problem availing services with PNB may contact me to my personal ID. i will assist him up to maximum extent possible. PNB is my employer and it is my moral duty to support my organisation. thanks, - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of PNB, if my bank denies any services to me, i won't hesitate to avail that particular service from another bank. suppose, if your salary account exist with ABC bank but their loan rates are higher then XYZ bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully won't avail the loan facility from that bank. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Well. I wrote that I am happy with SBI to illustrate a point, that is, if I am happy with one institution\company\brand, I should not remain complacent. The fact is I am not happy with SBI either. My experience with the JNU branch of SBI has been pathetic and I am sure I would be seconded on this by my friends in JNU. My experience with the branch where my salary is processed is relatively better. Similar is the case is other banks, their various branches and their visually challenged customers. Further, the entire debate is not about only bank or the only case. There is not one, but many wrongly treated cases with PNB as well as with other banks. All of us would do well, therefore, to understand PNB as a case in point and not a single organization being targeted. Things would slowly change. But we cannot wait for the things to change. We have to constantly work it out, and one established way of doing it is to follow the rules and guidelines on one hand and to logically evaluate the rules wherever needed, on the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking i agreed that the discussion has not rolled back. though, it has become healthy. one side you are happy with SBI. another side, some of blind customers are unhappy with the same. banker has to follow two things: banking law and banking practice. you can combine it by saying banking law and practice. this is law that all blind customers has full right to avail banking facilities, and it is duty of banker to provide him all the facilities without discrimination. but, only matter is law must come on practice. slowly and steadily it will change. some of us may unhappy with PNB, but, some of us are availing all facilities from the same. we can not defame the entire organisation with one wrongly treated case. it defers person to person. nobody can defame entire railway department by reporting one derailment case. all banks have a mechanism to treat customer's complaints. we have to approach right person on right way. again i am to say that i never oppose the entire matter. if anyone of us have problem availing services with PNB may contact me to my personal ID. i will assist him up to maximum extent possible. PNB is my employer and it is my moral duty to support my organisation. thanks, - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of PNB
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
At this juncture, it is pertinent to point out as to how my Corporation Bank manager got convinced about providing me the ATM card. When I was talking to him and requesting him to provide me the card, he clearly denied me and categorically said that I wouldn't be able to operate the ATM card and it would get stuck if you do so on your own. astoundingly, he didn't seem to be very concerned about of the card being misused. Before I could reply, suddenly a person came and started complaining about his ATM card been stuck in the machine. Taking the advantage of that situation, I immediately intervene and said, had I been in place of this person, you would have clearly told me that I shouldn't have really opted for getting the same and now what if another person has come and you are just registering his complaint? at that point of time he jested and agreed to issue me the ATM card. If the knowledge of a person of managerial rank is so cheesy and crummy, even the God wouldn't know what to do! Regards, Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
i was concerned about general undertaking, usually contains on the bottom of the application forms. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
each bank has its own mechanism to deal customer's complaint, better option is to use the mechanism. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:41 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking although some of our friends seem to suggest an VC persons net getting the banking facilities is because of their ego preventing them giving a simple undertaking to the bank, the rality is far from that. as Shree Rajesh Asadani, the very practice of selective undertakings from the VC persons itself has to be according to rules, not according to the fantacies of some ignorant officer. moreover, in most cases, even when the VC person is willing to give an undertaking taking up responsibilities arising out of the possible misuse of the particular facility due to his or her disability, bank officials have refused to give the particular facility. On 5/26/10, Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in wrote: I perceive the matter of undertakings as being afraid of anything new. Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter. Now, is not it ridiculous? A few years ago, a girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM. So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules. And rules also can be modified to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions. For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this? So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter. So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner. Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs. I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change. So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
yes, nobody has right to defame the entire organisation, as one or two cases are not in a favour of blind customer. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Kamal: Let us not argue for the sake of it. I am sure you know that there is a website that has a list of defaulters who have defaulted over one crore and above. The shame is, banks have lent to these people more on the basis of their social standing than their actual credit worthiness. Just because a few of them have defaulted, do you stop lending to people? When you refer to some blind person who knowingly defaulted the bank, banks cannot conclude all v I's asking for our rights are either ignoramus fools or conniving thieves who do not deserve the right to access a service available to all. For that matter, what about the credit card fraudsters who change names and addresses and cheat on Banks? Do you stop giving credit cards on this basis? On the contrary I get numerous calls from tele oprtors to take one credit card or the other. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 10:46 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The same was to be happend in case of Rajkumar Sahu in Bank of India regarding his overdraft account. After my interference it could resolved with great difficulty. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
you are right sir, it has only two years completed. the RBI, CCPD and IBA prescribed rules for blind persons. it will ofcourse come on practice. like PWD act is still awaited to be fully complied. as the number of blind customer increase, some of bank officials have to change their attitude towards blind customers. better is to use the mechanism for complaint redresal framed in all banks. - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:51 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Well. I wrote that I am happy with SBI to illustrate a point, that is, if I am happy with one institution\company\brand, I should not remain complacent. The fact is I am not happy with SBI either. My experience with the JNU branch of SBI has been pathetic and I am sure I would be seconded on this by my friends in JNU. My experience with the branch where my salary is processed is relatively better. Similar is the case is other banks, their various branches and their visually challenged customers. Further, the entire debate is not about only bank or the only case. There is not one, but many wrongly treated cases with PNB as well as with other banks. All of us would do well, therefore, to understand PNB as a case in point and not a single organization being targeted. Things would slowly change. But we cannot wait for the things to change. We have to constantly work it out, and one established way of doing it is to follow the rules and guidelines on one hand and to logically evaluate the rules wherever needed, on the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking i agreed that the discussion has not rolled back. though, it has become healthy. one side you are happy with SBI. another side, some of blind customers are unhappy with the same. banker has to follow two things: banking law and banking practice. you can combine it by saying banking law and practice. this is law that all blind customers has full right to avail banking facilities, and it is duty of banker to provide him all the facilities without discrimination. but, only matter is law must come on practice. slowly and steadily it will change. some of us may unhappy with PNB, but, some of us are availing all facilities from the same. we can not defame the entire organisation with one wrongly treated case. it defers person to person. nobody can defame entire railway department by reporting one derailment case. all banks have a mechanism to treat customer's complaints. we have to approach right person on right way. again i am to say that i never oppose the entire matter. if anyone of us have problem availing services with PNB may contact me to my personal ID. i will assist him up to maximum extent possible. PNB is my employer and it is my moral duty to support my organisation. thanks, - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I would like to supplement this by telling a very interesting incident. Few months back when I had approached to one of the dealers of the Indian Oil Corporation to have my own gas connection, I heard that a lady had also come for the same purpose. The concerned person immediately asked that lady whether she was married or bachelor, when she told that she was unmarried, he immediately denied that lady to have the gas connection and he categorically said to that lady, ham tumhen kaise gas connection de sakte hain, tum to shaadi karke kahin aur chali jaogi? (how can we provide you the gas connection, you would just run when you'll get married?) Now I don't really understand as to which of the laws of this land says that unmarried girls wouldn't have the right to own the gas connection? Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking I perceive the matter of undertakings as being afraid of anything new. Bear in mind, when typewriters were invented, women were required to furnish a medical certificate that they are fit enough to operate typewriter. Now, is not it ridiculous? A few years ago, a girl from chandrapur found a place in Guinness book for being the fastest typist at the age of 7 and typing 170WPM. So, if apart from general undertakings if anything else is required by way of disability, then it must be established by rules. And rules also can be modified to be in sync with relevance of disability for a particular transactions. For instance, maharashtra government has not identified any post of lecturer in any subject but music for blind, does anyone with minimum rational capacity see any logic in this? So, let us be logical, and evaluate the implications of any disability and its consequent relevance in formulating the rules for any matter. So, practice of lowly officials framing their arbitrary rules needs to be severely dealt with any possible manner. Like Doctor Lahane an eye specialists feels that totally blind are not capable to discharge many of jobs identified in central list, and so has debarred them from undertaking them in maharashtra by committees and issuing so many GRs. I know cases are being fought by our honorable members for it, on the ground there is hardly any change. So, I sincerely feel we must adopt all and every means to have sound laws and rules in place and then curb anybody except legislature from tempering with them. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Viraj Kafle Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Sir, Before existence of such rules, in my knowledge, many blind persons and blind executives of various government and private organisations have been provided cheque book facility by the banks. We cannot change the attitude of society by laws and rules only. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking No, it is not question of ego. It is the question of rule of law versus arbitrariness! Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:50 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If the customer is a major, why should he, on earth produce NOC from parents? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
The details of customer have not been discussed in the list. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If the customer is a major, why should he, on earth produce NOC from parents? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
The customer's account status has not been discussed. He may be minor and what are the operation conditions. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why should he or she produce a document which no one is required to produce? If any customer is not producing such a document and if I am asked purely because I am disabled, is that not 'discrimination'? I am at a loss for reasoning here. Plese help me. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
What about cheque book? Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: mahendra gal...@chello.at To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking i am sorry Kamal it is for BM to follow the rules. not for blind customer to prove the need for ATM card. At 12:20 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issuesthat persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions.This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Hello Sir, Is there any guideline on accessible ATM? Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Suhas Karnik suhasvkar...@hotmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear shree Verma. I fail to understand your view point that the branch manager has to be convinced for issuing ATM card to a blind customer. He has to follow the rules laid down by controling bank. Dhanaji Kadam has attained his majority and has full legal capacity. Is the bank following the same procedure from other customers? From: kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:53:59 +0530 Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Yes, you are absolutely right. People are deficient to convince the manager. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Vikas Kapoor dl.vi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Providing such types of facilities to a great extent depends upon the branch manager. It largely depends upon the attitude of the person at least at the initial stage. Since my college is having its account in Corporation bank, so out of compulsion I also had to open my account in the same bank. Initially the branch manager tried to create some hurdles but at a later stage he was convinced and currently I'm availing ATM+Internet banking+Credit Card facility and that too without showing any RBI/IBA circular/guidelines. Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Would recommend Corporation Bank, which is head quartered out of Mangalore. They are pretty good in terms of providing cards ATMs and even internet banking -absolutely no discrimination or questions over one's disability. Also, till this march they give a credit card without any processing fee. So pl approach a branch in your city if interested. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
You are right - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I think it was clearly mentioned in one of the mails that he is indeed a major. The issue is not that. The issue is disability and that comes quite clear from the way the issue ws explained to us. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:45 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The customer's account status has not been discussed. He may be minor and what are the operation conditions. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why should he or she produce a document which no one is required to produce? If any customer is not producing such a document and if I am asked purely because I am disabled, is that not 'discrimination'? I am at a loss for reasoning here. Plese help me. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I have previously stated that The entire matter should be communicated to PNB higher authorities with designation and name of erring official. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking I think it was clearly mentioned in one of the mails that he is indeed a major. The issue is not that. The issue is disability and that comes quite clear from the way the issue ws explained to us. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:45 AM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The customer's account status has not been discussed. He may be minor and what are the operation conditions. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why should he or she produce a document which no one is required to produce? If any customer is not producing such a document and if I am asked purely because I am disabled, is that not 'discrimination'? I am at a loss for reasoning here. Plese help me. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I am sorry but I do not buy the argument that banks dont have to issue cards because of risk of fraud. How do banks deal with fraud committed on other people? It is the responsibility of banks to put in place effective sytstems to prevent fraud. The solution is not to deprive people of the right to banking. On 25 May 2010 14:39, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Why is it that the banks are so firm in denying us our due rights? In fact, it is our right not only to have accounts and subsequent facilities (check book-ATM card-netbanking etc.), but also to have proper and smooth access to these facilities. The authorities, ranging from the local to the national, have appeared more or less unwilling to provide us accessibility measures. Denial, thus, has become a easy means of escape for the authorities. Bank managers can join our struggle, in fact, by coming out of this escapism and advocating, with all their capacities, our due rights. It is quite unfortunate that instead of doing so, our friends here claiming to represent the banker's perspective are advocating things that are quite retrogressive in nature. The solution is to facilitate access instead of denying us our rights. The bank managers can either be partisans to our rights or remain neutral and follow the guidelines and the law of the land. Denial, in any case, must not have any place in the entire debate. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of PNB, if my bank denies any services to me, i won't hesitate to avail that particular service from another bank. suppose, if your salary account exist with ABC bank but their loan rates are higher then XYZ bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully won't avail the loan facility from that bank. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
i presented here the banker's part because, while fighting for our rights, we should be prepared for such types of arguments. we have to face such difficulties not only in banking, but, also availing other services. even, some times we unable to get our tickets from railway counters. here in chhattisgarh, there is no state transport corporation, a blind person require special bus pass from RTO office to avail facility from private operators, some times private bus operators do not stop the bus. in some cases they compelled the blind person to get down from their bus. however, with the help of NFB, CG, branch we solved many cases and made severe penalties to the bus operators. please go through the entire discussion, i never opposed the banking facilities for disabled persons. - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why is it that the banks are so firm in denying us our due rights? In fact, it is our right not only to have accounts and subsequent facilities (check book-ATM card-netbanking etc.), but also to have proper and smooth access to these facilities. The authorities, ranging from the local to the national, have appeared more or less unwilling to provide us accessibility measures. Denial, thus, has become a easy means of escape for the authorities. Bank managers can join our struggle, in fact, by coming out of this escapism and advocating, with all their capacities, our due rights. It is quite unfortunate that instead of doing so, our friends here claiming to represent the banker's perspective are advocating things that are quite retrogressive in nature. The solution is to facilitate access instead of denying us our rights. The bank managers can either be partisans to our rights or remain neutral and follow the guidelines and the law of the land. Denial, in any case, must not have any place in the entire debate. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I recently tried to make a transaction online using my SBI debit card through CCAvenue. The transaction got stuck in the final stage. The amount got debited from my account but remained uncredited to the merchant. I complained giving reference to the transaction number and the amount got duely refunded by CCAvenue. To the best of my knowledge, nobody lost any job during the process. Such things can happen to any customer regardless of one is disabled or not, and things can be thus sorted out. But I don't think the authorities who are hell bent on denying us our rights are at all concerned of the safety of our money. Had this been a case, they could have advocated for accesibility instead of depriving us of things we want to avail. Of course, as rightly been pointed out, the same or similar kind of logic is used to deprive us of our various other rights and requirements, such as education and employment. I hope our friends claiming to understand the banker's perspectives also understand the essence of our struggle, whether the particular one against the denial in the banks or the broader one of the denial virtually everywhere. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of PNB, if my bank denies any services to me, i won't hesitate to avail that particular service from another bank. suppose, if your salary account exist with ABC bank but their loan rates are higher then XYZ bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully won't avail the loan facility from that bank. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Yes. Nobody has opposed banking facilities for the blind here. But let us also not give the denying authorities a cushion in the name of understanding their plight. To say what has already been said by many, their are laws, rules and guidelines for the bank authorities to follow. Not following them for any nice-sounding excuse is a fallacy and has to be challenged. If the bus operators had to pay severe penalties for denying or harassing the person with disabilities, why should we be soft towards the erring bank managers. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking i presented here the banker's part because, while fighting for our rights, we should be prepared for such types of arguments. we have to face such difficulties not only in banking, but, also availing other services. even, some times we unable to get our tickets from railway counters. here in chhattisgarh, there is no state transport corporation, a blind person require special bus pass from RTO office to avail facility from private operators, some times private bus operators do not stop the bus. in some cases they compelled the blind person to get down from their bus. however, with the help of NFB, CG, branch we solved many cases and made severe penalties to the bus operators. please go through the entire discussion, i never opposed the banking facilities for disabled persons. - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why is it that the banks are so firm in denying us our due rights? In fact, it is our right not only to have accounts and subsequent facilities (check book-ATM card-netbanking etc.), but also to have proper and smooth access to these facilities. The authorities, ranging from the local to the national, have appeared more or less unwilling to provide us accessibility measures. Denial, thus, has become a easy means of escape for the authorities. Bank managers can join our struggle, in fact, by coming out of this escapism and advocating, with all their capacities, our due rights. It is quite unfortunate that instead of doing so, our friends here claiming to represent the banker's perspective are advocating things that are quite retrogressive in nature. The solution is to facilitate access instead of denying us our rights. The bank managers can either be partisans to our rights or remain neutral and follow the guidelines and the law of the land. Denial, in any case, must not have any place in the entire debate. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
If ATM card has been issued to a blind person it is his duty to use his ATM card with a reliable person. If he doesn't do so, It is his responsibility not to the bank. Devendra Nikose - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
First of all you have to take precaution. Use your ATM card with a reliable person. If you are doubtful that you may be cheated, Don't use it. In this condition it is better to go for manual cash withdrawal. I did so many time when my wife or daughter not there. Devendra Nikose - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
no sir, I am not agree with you at all. here, nobody is favoring to the bankers but because many of us have been working in the different banks for the last several years so we are fully aware with the technical problems may accurse. may be many of us are not aware of them at all. its easy to criticize anyone here without knowing the facts/technical issues really the bankers are facing in daily routine work but I request to all of you, please be patience because bankers are also the part of society and their objections are also genuine but more or less, these facilities are quite dangerous for the blind persons. this is also important that if any blind person ask for all these facilities, the undertaking must be given by the accountholder, not by the parrents. this is quite illogical at all because only accountholder has a right to take any decision about his own account but this undertaking must be taken in presence of his nominee of the same account. Thanks With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why is it that the banks are so firm in denying us our due rights? In fact, it is our right not only to have accounts and subsequent facilities (check book-ATM card-netbanking etc.), but also to have proper and smooth access to these facilities. The authorities, ranging from the local to the national, have appeared more or less unwilling to provide us accessibility measures. Denial, thus, has become a easy means of escape for the authorities. Bank managers can join our struggle, in fact, by coming out of this escapism and advocating, with all their capacities, our due rights. It is quite unfortunate that instead of doing so, our friends here claiming to represent the banker's perspective are advocating things that are quite retrogressive in nature. The solution is to facilitate access instead of denying us our rights. The bank managers can either be partisans to our rights or remain neutral and follow the guidelines and the law of the land. Denial, in any case, must not have any place in the entire debate. - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking going by some of the argument from a bankers perspective, the best option seems to be depriving the visually challenged from availing any banking facility, including an account itself. the entire argument of bank being concerned about the possible risk for the visually challenged, the best way of helping the person from their point of view is to tell him or her not avail any banking facility. in when you work your salary goes to your bank account or is processed through a bank. since you are blind you might be cheated at some point. so it is better you don't work at all so that you don't have to deal with a bank. sorry, but that logic is absolute nonsense. On 5/25/10, Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in wrote: If I were to follow Bhavani's rationale, my bank manager is more worried about my money's safety than I am. So concerned he is that he would never let me take the money in the easiest way I can. Wonderful. First of, pl get this clear. I can't see, but I am capable of deciding for myself whether the person I am going with to the ATM is trustworthy enough or not. Ok, even if I were to lose some money, it would allrt me of not getting myself in that situation again. That is how we all learn. The problem with bankers not letting us use ATM is that they are posing a bigger problem to me than the problem I already face. For instance, I have to stand in the queue to withdraw the money, where I have to fill in the withdrawal form -for which I have to rely on a stranger- and then collect the cash and count the currency in front of many strangers then expect to get back to my office hoping not to be mugged by miscreants who may be following me from the bank to my office. This is safer than ATM according to my bankers. Of course, now I know that they are worried about their job and their safety. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mukesh Sharma Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:58 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Naturally article 14 of constitution places all on equal footing, taking relevant factors into account whenever necessary. In legal terminology, we call it as non-arbitrariness, and classification based on intelligible differentia having rational nexus to objective to be achieved. If disability can be proved to have any rational nexus with objective to be achieved, then legitimate differentiation may be permitted. I am afraid visual disability does not have any such nexus in matter of banking facilities, and so differentiation based on it is arbitrary and bad in law. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:36 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking what about those blind persons availing check book and other banking facilities before the laws framed, even this pwd act 1995? - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking No, it is not question of ego. It is the question of rule of law versus arbitrariness! Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:50 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If the customer is a major, why should he, on earth produce NOC from parents? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
I can also reply like this: From: Reserve Bank of India: Dear Bhavani Please refer to your letter issued to a blind customer (a copy of which has been marked to us by customer), denying ATM on the ground that your branch does not have accessible ATM according to RBI circular and so his/her application is kept pending. Now, please mark two things: 1. It is nowhere prescribed that a customer has to operate ATM all alone. ATM is issued to facilitate banking transactions and it is made clear to customer that he should not share password etc. with others to avoid inconvenience and fraud. The fact that a blind customer has to operate ATM by employing means other than sight is not at all relevant for giving him facility. In case such a use is misused and customer is defrauded, bank is not going to incur any liability, legally. 2. The fact that we have issued the circular about affording all banking facilities to visually impaired customers, should leave you in no doubt that they are legal persons and are fully responsible for their effective use by employing any alternative technical or human means. Thanking you XYZ Banking ombudsman RBI Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:19 AM To: B. R. Nautial; access india Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
The same was to be happend in case of Rajkumar Sahu in Bank of India regarding his overdraft account. After my interference it could resolved with great difficulty. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
No dear It is not right thing no official is loosing their jobs due to issuing a ATM to blind persons. It is all customers responsibility to keep it safe. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
No no taking any extra declaration from VI which is against the right to equality. riginal Message - From: Viraj Kafle vka...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking The discussion has not rolled back by any means. We are not talking about general undertaking that every customer has to give, but unnecessary impositions made on people on the basis of their disabilities. Is asking NOC from the parents of a capable visually challenged a general undertaking? Of course, one can always choose between brands. But when brands indulge in whatever they want in order to maximise profit or to corner people of certain sections of society, only talking about choice would not be politically correct. I am quite happy with SBI, but does that mean that I should keep mum and remain complacent when someone, not me, is denied or is illogically imposed by the PNB, or any other bank for that matter? When a precedence gets established, particularly a wrong one, it does not take much time to spread and be widely accepted. The same applies to the precedence of denial. We can always boycott one for the other, but at the same time it is our right as well as obligation to speak against and thoroughly expose those involving in cornering certain sections of society in one way or the other. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes, now the entire discussion is rolled back. the matter is whether a customer should give undertaking or not. if 2-3 line undertaking solve your problem, then what is the matter. practice of undertaking is all for general, not for blind customers. we take undertaking in minor account, some times in pension account, if a pensioner is to old, unable to execute his transactions and can not step up to the branch. blind person has to face many problem in his daily living, banking is one of them. do we get barrier free environment in our city? we have PWD act for it. not only blind, each and every type of disabled person must have full right to get all services. whether it is banking, telecom, railways, airlines, electricity. law and rules are the guidelines. the person sitting on the chair, how he interpreted this law. my suggestion is don't be a brand loyal, be a system loyal. if you want to buy a soft drink, there are to many shops, being an employee of PNB, if my bank denies any services to me, i won't hesitate to avail that particular service from another bank. suppose, if your salary account exist with ABC bank but their loan rates are higher then XYZ bank, then you will bank, then you will fopefully won't avail the loan facility from that bank. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Give me one such case. When issuing ATM card, the bank in their pure diplomatic language express NO RISK of the BANK on the misuse of the Card and the undertaking has to be signed by the customer and I guess that is sufficient to save your job! This is what should be done for every customer irrespective of the so called disability or ability to see or even use ATM independently. The bread and butter is forcing you to stand by bankers approach but what about your personal opinion. Or let's do it other way, suppose you are a customer and I am a BM, explain me why I shouldn't issue a ATM Card to you, if you can not, then help in your capacity to get every individual to enjoy facility equally be it of ATM or Cheque Book. A BM is there to make life of customer easier and not difficult else the scheme of banking would have not been possible for illiterate and BPL customer. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Mr. Bhavani Please substantiate your arguments with written documents. I am afraid now we are going overboard. As if ATM frauds never happen with sighted customers. And, please inform me of any case where due to such fraud, any banker has lost the job. Even if a fraud happens to a blind customer due to his dependence on another while operating, we can always cite RBI circular in court. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:09 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking yes! this is a matter, if that anybody did a fraud with that blind person, cheated him, then. my four or five colleagues will loose their job, if that blind person stand before the court. who issued ATM card? the employee who entered his card details on issue register, the employee entered his details on CBS system. who will come to convince the court that entire risk goes to that blind person? - Original Message - From: AMEEN ameen.etta...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Sent from my mobile device Best regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula Mobile: +91 990 081 0881 Website: http://www.srinivasu.org Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Mahesh S. Panicker C123; Dayanand Colony; Lajpat Nagar4; New delhi india. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in DISCLAIMER: The Information transmitted in this email is solely for the addressee. It is confidential and may be legally privileged. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken by anyone other than by the intended recipient is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient then kindly delete the mail from your system. Any opinion or views expressed in this mail may
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Sent from my mobile device Best regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula Mobile: +91 990 081 0881 Website: http://www.srinivasu.org Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Would recommend Corporation Bank, which is head quartered out of Mangalore. They are pretty good in terms of providing cards ATMs and even internet banking -absolutely no discrimination or questions over one's disability. Also, till this march they give a credit card without any processing fee. So pl approach a branch in your city if interested. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Providing such types of facilities to a great extent depends upon the branch manager. It largely depends upon the attitude of the person at least at the initial stage. Since my college is having its account in Corporation bank, so out of compulsion I also had to open my account in the same bank. Initially the branch manager tried to create some hurdles but at a later stage he was convinced and currently I'm availing ATM+Internet banking+Credit Card facility and that too without showing any RBI/IBA circular/guidelines. Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Would recommend Corporation Bank, which is head quartered out of Mangalore. They are pretty good in terms of providing cards ATMs and even internet banking -absolutely no discrimination or questions over one's disability. Also, till this march they give a credit card without any processing fee. So pl approach a branch in your city if interested. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Sent from my mobile device Best regards
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Yes, you are absolutely right. People are deficient to convince the manager. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Vikas Kapoor dl.vi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Providing such types of facilities to a great extent depends upon the branch manager. It largely depends upon the attitude of the person at least at the initial stage. Since my college is having its account in Corporation bank, so out of compulsion I also had to open my account in the same bank. Initially the branch manager tried to create some hurdles but at a later stage he was convinced and currently I'm availing ATM+Internet banking+Credit Card facility and that too without showing any RBI/IBA circular/guidelines. Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Would recommend Corporation Bank, which is head quartered out of Mangalore. They are pretty good in terms of providing cards ATMs and even internet banking -absolutely no discrimination or questions over one's disability. Also, till this march they give a credit card without any processing fee. So pl approach a branch in your city if interested. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Mind you, a branch manager has no such discretion. Checkbooks are a grey area, due to our own floundering. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:54 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Yes, you are absolutely right. People are deficient to convince the manager. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Vikas Kapoor dl.vi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Providing such types of facilities to a great extent depends upon the branch manager. It largely depends upon the attitude of the person at least at the initial stage. Since my college is having its account in Corporation bank, so out of compulsion I also had to open my account in the same bank. Initially the branch manager tried to create some hurdles but at a later stage he was convinced and currently I'm availing ATM+Internet banking+Credit Card facility and that too without showing any RBI/IBA circular/guidelines. Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Would recommend Corporation Bank, which is head quartered out of Mangalore. They are pretty good in terms of providing cards ATMs and even internet banking -absolutely no discrimination or questions over one's disability. Also, till this march they give a credit card without any processing fee. So pl approach a branch in your city if interested. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Why should I argue for my ATM card? Is the bank keeping superior debating skills as a necessary qualification for issuing essential things like ATM to a customer? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
It is a matter of ego. not convincing behaviour. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why should I argue for my ATM card? Is the bank keeping superior debating skills as a necessary qualification for issuing essential things like ATM to a customer? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
If the customer is a major, why should he, on earth produce NOC from parents? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
No, it is not question of ego. It is the question of rule of law versus arbitrariness! Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:50 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If the customer is a major, why should he, on earth produce NOC from parents? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
And... about that stuff on deforming a reputed bank... If they deform someone's right to services, they are no noble institution in my opinion. We should never be unduly biased for or against any institution. We are talking purely about their deficient service and their callousness and inhumane treatment of a group of people who deserve the best of services that an institution can lend. If they cannot provide their best service to someone who deserves the most, then is there a guarantee that they would provide it for anyone else? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Subramani L Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:33 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why should I argue for my ATM card? Is the bank keeping superior debating skills as a necessary qualification for issuing essential things like ATM to a customer? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
If you feel No one has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB, the bank should work in guidelines provided by Regulating authority. Being famous or having a vast contribution in economy do not mean that you are good for the society or for every matter, it could be a disease making you a big entity similar to terrorist group (they also play a good role in shaping economy of the world). If some day your employer ask you why do you need a job? what would be your answer? Your answer is what the answer should be for the question Why does he need ATM card and Cheque book and how shall I issue? though for the how you should issue part, ah please check your manuals, you can not expect a common man to guide you through procedures. Further, I have had different experience with different branches of PNB and on top of everything have had different opinion from 2 official of the same branch over the question of ATM card and Cheque Book facility to VI customer. I think every year the bank should conduct annual exam or monthly test on circulars and guidelines, failing to which the officer should be sent to training department, failing 3 times in a row should result in expulsion. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Why should he or she produce a document which no one is required to produce? If any customer is not producing such a document and if I am asked purely because I am disabled, is that not 'discrimination'? I am at a loss for reasoning here. Plese help me. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
And, I clearly do not understand your definition of ego. Ego is when I consider myself superior to someone not when I think I am equal to someone. When I am not given an equal treatment with the rest of the customers, where is the question of ego here? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:28 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking It is a matter of ego. not convincing behaviour. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Why should I argue for my ATM card? Is the bank keeping superior debating skills as a necessary qualification for issuing essential things like ATM to a customer? Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
i am sorry Kamal it is for BM to follow the rules. not for blind customer to prove the need for ATM card. At 12:20 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issuesthat persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions.This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Hi! Personally, I don't see any matter of ego in this case. If the bank is not asking to other so called normal customor for such document then why they are forcing the person to produce such document? Is this only and only because of he is blind? Further, if this is rule of PNB, then we should use RTI to avail the copy of such rule. It's the matter of discrimination rather than ego. - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
what about those blind persons availing check book and other banking facilities before the laws framed, even this pwd act 1995? - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking No, it is not question of ego. It is the question of rule of law versus arbitrariness! Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Asudani, Rajesh Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:50 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If the customer is a major, why should he, on earth produce NOC from parents? Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
bank has right to ask question for check book. ATM card should be given easily. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If you feel No one has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB, the bank should work in guidelines provided by Regulating authority. Being famous or having a vast contribution in economy do not mean that you are good for the society or for every matter, it could be a disease making you a big entity similar to terrorist group (they also play a good role in shaping economy of the world). If some day your employer ask you why do you need a job? what would be your answer? Your answer is what the answer should be for the question Why does he need ATM card and Cheque book and how shall I issue? though for the how you should issue part, ah please check your manuals, you can not expect a common man to guide you through procedures. Further, I have had different experience with different branches of PNB and on top of everything have had different opinion from 2 official of the same branch over the question of ATM card and Cheque Book facility to VI customer. I think every year the bank should conduct annual exam or monthly test on circulars and guidelines, failing to which the officer should be sent to training department, failing 3 times in a row should result in expulsion. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
Dear shree Verma. I fail to understand your view point that the branch manager has to be convinced for issuing ATM card to a blind customer. He has to follow the rules laid down by controling bank. Dhanaji Kadam has attained his majority and has full legal capacity. Is the bank following the same procedure from other customers? From: kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 16:53:59 +0530 Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Yes, you are absolutely right. People are deficient to convince the manager. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Vikas Kapoor dl.vi...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Providing such types of facilities to a great extent depends upon the branch manager. It largely depends upon the attitude of the person at least at the initial stage. Since my college is having its account in Corporation bank, so out of compulsion I also had to open my account in the same bank. Initially the branch manager tried to create some hurdles but at a later stage he was convinced and currently I'm availing ATM+Internet banking+Credit Card facility and that too without showing any RBI/IBA circular/guidelines. Vikas Kapoor, MSN Id:dl_vi...@hotmail.com, YahooSkype Id: dl_vikas, Mobile: (+91) 9891098137. - Original Message - From: Subramani L lsubram...@deccanherald.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Would recommend Corporation Bank, which is head quartered out of Mangalore. They are pretty good in terms of providing cards ATMs and even internet banking -absolutely no discrimination or questions over one's disability. Also, till this march they give a credit card without any processing fee. So pl approach a branch in your city if interested. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Mahesh Panicker Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
The preview of the question should be general and not of disability, and take a note, with a simple requisition form one can avail the facility of Cheque book, no one ask any question to so called normal customer. The incident in state bank, when asking for ATM card, the manager refused to tell where to sign in the application form stating that when you are applying for ATM card and should locate the signature field on your own. In front of 10 customer. On the other hand when applied for credit card of State bank, the executive visited home and completed all the required documentation and the card was issued without any problem. No offense intended. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA [mailto:bsvermad...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:39 PM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking bank has right to ask question for check book. ATM card should be given easily. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If you feel No one has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB, the bank should work in guidelines provided by Regulating authority. Being famous or having a vast contribution in economy do not mean that you are good for the society or for every matter, it could be a disease making you a big entity similar to terrorist group (they also play a good role in shaping economy of the world). If some day your employer ask you why do you need a job? what would be your answer? Your answer is what the answer should be for the question Why does he need ATM card and Cheque book and how shall I issue? though for the how you should issue part, ah please check your manuals, you can not expect a common man to guide you through procedures. Further, I have had different experience with different branches of PNB and on top of everything have had different opinion from 2 official of the same branch over the question of ATM card and Cheque Book facility to VI customer. I think every year the bank should conduct annual exam or monthly test on circulars and guidelines, failing to which the officer should be sent to training department, failing 3 times in a row should result in expulsion. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
well if convincing the bank manager as to why I need an ATM card is the basis of issuing the card, then that should apply to all customers. an ATM card is needed to take out money easily, and like anyone, I may can use it for the same. alternatily, I might just avail the facility, and just keep it locked away for ever. that is none of the bloody business of the bank. I need an ATM card because I am entitled to it. so long as it the demand is within the legal framework, the bank manager needs to know nothing more. On 5/24/10, Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com wrote: The preview of the question should be general and not of disability, and take a note, with a simple requisition form one can avail the facility of Cheque book, no one ask any question to so called normal customer. The incident in state bank, when asking for ATM card, the manager refused to tell where to sign in the application form stating that when you are applying for ATM card and should locate the signature field on your own. In front of 10 customer. On the other hand when applied for credit card of State bank, the executive visited home and completed all the required documentation and the card was issued without any problem. No offense intended. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA [mailto:bsvermad...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:39 PM To: mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com; accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking bank has right to ask question for check book. ATM card should be given easily. - Original Message - From: Mukesh Sharma mrmukeshsha...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking If you feel No one has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB, the bank should work in guidelines provided by Regulating authority. Being famous or having a vast contribution in economy do not mean that you are good for the society or for every matter, it could be a disease making you a big entity similar to terrorist group (they also play a good role in shaping economy of the world). If some day your employer ask you why do you need a job? what would be your answer? Your answer is what the answer should be for the question Why does he need ATM card and Cheque book and how shall I issue? though for the how you should issue part, ah please check your manuals, you can not expect a common man to guide you through procedures. Further, I have had different experience with different branches of PNB and on top of everything have had different opinion from 2 official of the same branch over the question of ATM card and Cheque Book facility to VI customer. I think every year the bank should conduct annual exam or monthly test on circulars and guidelines, failing to which the officer should be sent to training department, failing 3 times in a row should result in expulsion. Thanks Mukesh -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
there is nor reasoning. so you wont have one!! At 01:51 PM 5/24/2010, you wrote: Why should he or she produce a document which no one is required to produce? If any customer is not producing such a document and if I am asked purely because I am disabled, is that not 'discrimination'? I am at a loss for reasoning here. Plese help me. Subramani -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how shall I issue? Let him convince me. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking dear Mr. Verma. . surprised to know someone has something nice to say about PNB. I haven't find many other organizations as obnoxious as PNB is. I had a real struggle to get my ATM card from PNB. in fact, I'd contacted the higher authorities as well. but at the end of the day, I had to complaint to the RBI, and also to the NHRC and the government of India ministry of finance to get my card. after all that, I got my card after a good 7 months. recently too, I had a terrible time with the PNB, when I applied for a check book. as I already mentioned, this happened after I submitted the RBI circular on the rights of the disabled on banking facility. and then we all have the story of a visually challenged being asked to provide a NOC from the parents to avail an ATM card. have you heard of anything more obnoxious? banks in general, and PNB in particular have a horrible record when it comes to acknowledging the rightful claims of the disabled. so we have to take the struggle against such horrible institutional nonsense to all possible levels including the media. On 5/24/10, Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in wrote: Hello all, I am surprised to note various complaints against PNB in this list. I am availing all the banking facilities, such as cheque book, debit card, credit card, internet banking, etc. PNB does not ignore the blind community, hence if any problem occurs, it may be communicated to the higher authorities of PNB with the name and designation of the concerned officer. Thanks. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Mahesh Panicker maheshspanic...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:51 PM To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Hello, Noone has to deform such a pioneer corporate like PNB. RBI framed rules and circulars, but being a Branch Manager, it seems impractical to issue ATM card to the blind customers. Let me argue the matter with the blind customer who is in need of ATM card and cheque book. Why does he need ATM card and cheque book and how
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
here, the only question is whether the manager is willing to comply with RBI rules and regulations or not. If he has any reluctance, he should face legal action, that's all, Ameen. - Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India Nagpur 09420397185 O: 0712 2806676 Res: 0712 2591349 -Original Message- From: accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Kamal Verma
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
screen reading software has nothing to do with issuing ATM cards to VI persons. for, he can operate it with the help of anybody whom he chooses. that is non of the business of the bank. if there is any risk involved in it, the person will bear it. then why should raise all lame excuses and arguments? are you willing to comply with the rules and regulations stipulated by RBI? Ameen.- Original Message - From: BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com To: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com; access india accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:18 AM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking you are absolutely right sir, i found that only blind customer's part is discussed here. we should also consider banker's part. secondly, again i am to say that bank has full right to ask his customer, why he should require a check book. only for prestige or he has any use of it. if he or she avail check book facility, he has to maintain minimum balance in his account to continue this facility. some times we also make our blindness complicated. if any one show the law and rules, then being a banker, i am giving my ATM card and pin number to that blind customer, I will also take him to the ATM machine, but, i will not assist him to read out the menus and commands on ATM. will he independently withdraw his money? if so, could anybody voluntarily come to have a practical session? condition is a person should be bona fied blind. RBI says that 33% of ATMs should be accessible to blind persons, and it is stated on the same circular, which all our friends have mentioned here. now as a branch manager, it does not come in my power to install such ATMs. only my head office can do that. now in writing, i can reply that customer: I accept your application for ATM card. since, as per the RBI circular our branch does not have ATM accessible to blind person, and also in our city there is no ATM installed, which is accessible to the blind person, hence, your application is pending for consideration. as soon as. an accessible ATM will be installed, you will be facilitated ATM card. our hon'ble blind customer unable to operate ATM which exist in our branch, independently, further, this matter has been referred to our authorities. thanking you, - Original Message - From: B. R. Nautial brnaut...@gmail.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking no sir, its not a question of ego here. in my opinion, both the parties are almost right on their places. generally, all these facilities are quite risky for the blind, that's why, most of the bank manager of various banks are not even against the blind customers but don't want to give all these facilities to the them only because they know, in case of any fraud with the blind customer, they may be questioned before the court and may be punished for their negligence. In various banks, where the branch manager is flexible and satisfied with your arguments or fully aware with the rules and regulations, they are more sympathetic with the blind. They don't create such problems to any of the blind person. More or less, they are not our enemy so the issue should be raised before the higher authorities with the help of various NGO's. With Regards B. R. Nautial Mobile: +919915073368 - Original Message - From: Kamal Verma kamalve...@pnb.co.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Dear Sir, The customer is trying to satisfy his ego. Otherwise, he should have produced NOC or any such endorsement from his parrents. The problems might have been solved. Details of this blind customer have not been discussed in the list. There are number of blind customers availing ATM, cheque book and other facilities from PNB. Regards. Kamal Verma - Original Message - From: Asudani, Rajesh rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Who is bloody branch manager to sit in judgment over rules framed by regulator? If he/she has to question them, let him represent to central bank or government, for the time, rules are there, he has to comply with them. If we give in to approach of petty functionaries thwarting rules, there will be no rule of law in this country. Moreover, why does anybody require banking facilities? So, there is no rational behind this question. And, about ATM, bank is not responsible anyway for misuse or loss. Check book is another matter, and I have time and again pointed out the lacunae in the policy pertaining to it. So, we can not hold bankers denying it to fault. Regards Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God-- but to create Him. --Arthur C. Clarke (Rajesh Asudani) Assistant General Manager, Reserve Bank of India
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Sent from my mobile device Best regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula Mobile: +91 990 081 0881 Website: http://www.srinivasu.org Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
Re: [AI] Difficulties in Banking
banking is one area where there is a lot of discrimination against the visually challenged. opening an account itself isn't any easier, but ones you open an account, getting the common banking facilities like ATM cards and check book is an absolute nightmare.I've an account with the Punjab National Bank, and I had my struggle of my life to get my ATM card issued. it took me a good 7 month for the same to be done. the struggle for the check book was also on similar lines, and although I've got the checkbook, it has come with a lot of conditions. most people on access india can tell you similar stories. I believe some of our own members have taken a lot of initiative in this regard, and the 2008 RBI order is an achievement because of such initiatives. On 5/23/10, BHAWANI SHANKAR VERMA bsvermad...@gmail.com wrote: blind persons should organize and conduct an agitation before the banking division and finance ministry. this is the only solution. - Original Message - From: rahul cherian rahul.cher...@inclusiveplanet.com To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2010 12:47 PM Subject: [AI] Difficulties in Banking Folks, I have been asked to prepare a comprehensive note on the issues that persons with visual impairment face with banking in India, especially in leading banks such as ICICI, HDFC and SBI, along with possible solutions. This note has been asked for by some senior people I know personally in these banks. If anyone would like to help me prepare this note do let me know at the earliest. If anyone has the details of any such note which has been prepared earlier do forward that to me. Best regards, Rahul Cherian Inclusive Planet On 23 May 2010 12:39, Srinivasu Chakravarthula sriniv...@srinivasu.orgwrote: Hi Dinesh, Can you provide us with little more details about your problem with Yahoo! Messenger so as to help you better? Regards, Srinivasu On 5/23/10, dinesh shukla dineshshukla2...@gmail.com wrote: dear friends I am not able to chatte with the help of Yahoo massenger. please help me to do the same telling me the steps. Dinesh Shukla. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Sent from my mobile device Best regards, Srinivasu Chakravarthula Mobile: +91 990 081 0881 Website: http://www.srinivasu.org Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/sriniworld/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.inwith the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in -- Mahesh S. Panicker C123; Dayanand Colony; Lajpat Nagar4; New delhi india. To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in
