Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
right mix of contacts whereas you needed a
Sitemonitor + Expansion to get the same thing with Packetflux.
-Adam
From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2024 5:42 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
I think the simple email alert is what we are looking for.. No NMS needed.
From: castarritt
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 3:33 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
We've done stuff as ghetto as powering an old wrt54g through the alarm contacts
and monitoring its IP address to see when it comes up and goes down. These
days all of our sites have either an Alpha or ICT UPS or DC shelf that has
alarm monitoring inputs.
On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:30?PM Ken Hohhof wrote:
As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient. If
necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose.
Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an MTA
rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25. That sounds
like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe 1999. I
don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a little contact
monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare.
From: AF On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List
Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but the
way this happens varies between devices.
My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has
traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when to
send the email. I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on. This is obviously
easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage. Plus you need
additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and 24.1 and you
have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every time it flaps to
24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older hardware just because of
code space limitations.
The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been
completed. There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor system,
how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this point. The
email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some sort of email
server resources for those who don't have an email system which will accept
email from random devices.
On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55?PM Ken Hohhof wrote:
Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system.
Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that an
SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls every
1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by email or
text message.
I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip
points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage at
the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than 2
minutes.
---- Original Message
From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM
To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue? Traps?
\Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this.
From: TJ Trout
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Cc: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and
temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you
add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of
On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment
alarm contacts. Circuit breaker alarms. That is why historically I liked the
netguardian product. It eats everything. Monitors DC voltages etc. Temps
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might
be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution.
However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is
nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others).
bpOn 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts
in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguard
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
I think the simple email alert is what we are looking for.. No NMS needed. From: castarritt Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 3:33 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP We've done stuff as ghetto as powering an old wrt54g through the alarm contacts and monitoring its IP address to see when it comes up and goes down. These days all of our sites have either an Alpha or ICT UPS or DC shelf that has alarm monitoring inputs. On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 4:30 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: As long as you support SMTP AUTH, I think that should be sufficient. If necessary, someone could always create a Gmail account for this purpose. Yes, there are some older devices that expect you to set them up as an MTA rather than MUA so they can send unauthenticated SMTP on port 25. That sounds like a really bad plan to me unless you time travel back to maybe 1999. I don’t want to be creating SPF and DKIM and DMARC records for a little contact monitoring box, and it sounds like a security nightmare. From: AF On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 4:13 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Some devices can be configured to send an email if a contact closes, but the way this happens varies between devices. My problem with integrating this on the the sitemonitor platform has traditionally been that you need a rule system in order to determine when to send the email. I.E. what threshold of voltage, and so on. This is obviously easy in a on/off situation, but not so much in a voltage. Plus you need additional rules so when the voltage is bouncing between 24.0 and 24.1 and you have the threshold set at 24.0 you don't get an email every time it flaps to 24.0.All of this was impossible to do on the older hardware just because of code space limitations. The Base 3 has the resources to do this, but the firmware has not yet been completed. There is a rules engine about 3/4 built for the sitemonitor system, how long until it sees the light of day, I don't know at this point. The email itself is somewhat easy but I also need to provide some sort of email server resources for those who don't have an email system which will accept email from random devices. On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 2:55 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: Not following how you are going to use SNMP without a monitoring system. Packetflux Sitemonitor can turn a contact closure into a 1 or 0 OID that an SNMP monitoring system can check at regular intervals, mine mostly polls every 1 minute. But then you would typically have your NMS send an alert by email or text message. I tend to monitor analog parameters like voltage or current, then set trip points for the NMS to send an informative message. Like UPS input voltage at the Podunk site has been below the minimum value of 100 V for more than 2 minutes. Original Message From: "Chuck McCown via AF" Sent: 5/8/2024 2:41:36 PM To: "TJ Trout" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue? Traps? \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23?PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm contacts. Circuit breaker alarms. That is why historically I liked the netguardian product. It eats everything. Monitors DC voltages etc. Temps From: Bill Prince Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution. However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others). bpOn 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.c
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
Thanks, I am going to take a look at the 408 ControlByWeb unit. It would get us there. From: Colin Stanners Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:49 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: TJ Trout ; Josh Luthman ; Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Chuck, the PacketFlux products are great for many use cases but I'm not sure this is one of them as the non-GPS-sync built in functionality in PF units is very basic. Look at the ControlByWeb products, amusingly their location in Nibley UT is not far from you. I think their X-408 is cost effective at $250 and with 8 digital inputs and e-mail notifications etc. probably would serve this case well. There is also the Ethertek RMS-100, RMS-200 OR RMS-300 or the Tycon TPDIN-monitor-web3 series. On Wed, May 8, 2024, 2:24 p.m. Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Maybe Forrest will jump on here for a sales pitch. At a minimum I need contact closures. But temp and DC voltage monitoring would be handy. Not sure the differences in all his products. Email notification would probably be the best for me. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:15 PM To: Josh Luthman Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP I would prefer packet flux since it's made in the USA but I don't believe they have on board email, if you don't want to deploy an SNMP server this might be an option https://tyconsystems.com/homepage/shop/tpdin-monitor-web3/ On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:10 PM Josh Luthman wrote: What does the alarm contact offer? Just SNMP? If so, you need to figure out if the alarm contact is going to be changing the OID or not. Some software works better in this situation. On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:09 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We have nothing at the moment. So before I purchased a netguardian I though I would ping the borg to see if there is a cheaper or simpler system. We recently discovered that we had a rectifier fault and an inverter fault so our system goes down during a power failure while waiting for the generator to start. I decided that we should probably monitor alarms. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:47 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP What's the use case? Do you have an existing snmp system? Sometimes a box with built in email client is less of a hassle, I'm sure there are cloud solutions as well. On Wed, May 8, 2024, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
So how do Forrest’s products let you know of an issue? Traps? \Would love to NOT have to have NMS just for this. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:35 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP Packet flux can do it all too, the base unit can monitor two voltages and temp and a few contact closures, if you need more volt inputs or closures you add a expansion unit. No email that I'm aware of On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:23 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm contacts. Circuit breaker alarms. That is why historically I liked the netguardian product. It eats everything. Monitors DC voltages etc. Temps From: Bill Prince Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution. However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others). bp On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
Maybe Forrest will jump on here for a sales pitch. At a minimum I need contact closures. But temp and DC voltage monitoring would be handy. Not sure the differences in all his products. Email notification would probably be the best for me. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:15 PM To: Josh Luthman Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP I would prefer packet flux since it's made in the USA but I don't believe they have on board email, if you don't want to deploy an SNMP server this might be an option https://tyconsystems.com/homepage/shop/tpdin-monitor-web3/ On Wed, May 8, 2024, 12:10 PM Josh Luthman wrote: What does the alarm contact offer? Just SNMP? If so, you need to figure out if the alarm contact is going to be changing the OID or not. Some software works better in this situation. On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:09 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We have nothing at the moment. So before I purchased a netguardian I though I would ping the borg to see if there is a cheaper or simpler system. We recently discovered that we had a rectifier fault and an inverter fault so our system goes down during a power failure while waiting for the generator to start. I decided that we should probably monitor alarms. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:47 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP What's the use case? Do you have an existing snmp system? Sometimes a box with built in email client is less of a hassle, I'm sure there are cloud solutions as well. On Wed, May 8, 2024, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
No, we have fuse alarms, rectifier, inverter, and other comm equipment alarm contacts. Circuit breaker alarms. That is why historically I liked the netguardian product. It eats everything. Monitors DC voltages etc. Temps From: Bill Prince Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:13 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP I think if your installed equipment all came from one vendor, there might be some way to do their proprietary monitoring solution. However, SNMP as flawed as it might be, is the only standard that is nearly universal (because some implementations are better than others). bp On 5/8/2024 11:30 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
The alarms come off various devices. They are generally contact closures. We need to route those to something. Netguardians will take a wide variety of discrete inputs, analog voltages, ethernet pings etc. And it puts out things link SNMP traps and even pots dial up pager type of notification. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 1:09 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: TJ Trout ; ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP What does the alarm contact offer? Just SNMP? If so, you need to figure out if the alarm contact is going to be changing the OID or not. Some software works better in this situation. On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 3:09 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We have nothing at the moment. So before I purchased a netguardian I though I would ping the borg to see if there is a cheaper or simpler system. We recently discovered that we had a rectifier fault and an inverter fault so our system goes down during a power failure while waiting for the generator to start. I decided that we should probably monitor alarms. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:47 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP What's the use case? Do you have an existing snmp system? Sometimes a box with built in email client is less of a hassle, I'm sure there are cloud solutions as well. On Wed, May 8, 2024, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] SNMP
We have nothing at the moment. So before I purchased a netguardian I though I would ping the borg to see if there is a cheaper or simpler system. We recently discovered that we had a rectifier fault and an inverter fault so our system goes down during a power failure while waiting for the generator to start. I decided that we should probably monitor alarms. From: TJ Trout Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2024 12:47 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SNMP What's the use case? Do you have an existing snmp system? Sometimes a box with built in email client is less of a hassle, I'm sure there are cloud solutions as well. On Wed, May 8, 2024, 11:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] SNMP
We are needing to add some monitoring of old fashioned alarm contacts in one of our sites. In the past I used Netguardians. Not sure what Forrest has. Is SNMP still the defacto NMS comm method or are there better more modern stuff out there we should be looking at? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me)
I presumed they were in polar orbits. Google shows a bunch of criss cross inclined orbits. I don’t see how looking in the northern direction would help. From: Robert Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 1:37 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me) Well, as I said, you have to take _everything_ she writes with the understanding that she is an alarmist and a promoter. I would be pretty sure she got paid by both T-Mobile and Hiboost, & I have seen others say the same problem she mentioned about Weboost but both times it was proven to be a bad setup. ( I have weboost but don't need it ) Starlink has to avoid transmitting into the Clark Belt, they are using the same frequencies. So they use the northern hemisphere. If you aren't on the equator, your dish can be flat and avoid the Clark Belt no problemo. Beam steering decides the pointing and tilt is just a hangover of the earlier constraints.. Before the number of sats reached where they are now, they tended to use a higher latitude center of focus for the sats because you get more density at the northern inclinations of the orbits. That is going away rapidly. I flat mount my dish in the shower bubble of my RV for mobile use. It shows no obstructions when not under an actual obstruction. It now takes a pretty high/close cliff to obstruct the dish and we are seeing the latest s/w doing much better with a smaller sky area and probably 15 degrees higher in latitude than in the past. Some people have seen their dishes pointing east and west and, amazingly, south. I suspect that was because Starlink was testing the relay system on them. The latest version of the dish is supposed to support dual beams from what people are reading in the software analysis. It comes with a fixed stand that only tilts it about 15-20 degrees off vertical. The understanding is that the tilt is now just for snow/water shedding. Starlink has busy hour lower priority for _mobile_ users. It puts the mobile users behind the fixed users for b/w. _Not_ throttled. Lower speeds during 6-10pm are for the same reasons our networks experience it and Starlink has loaded on the customers way heavier than we probably would. It takes a _LOT_ of rain to reduce the performance of Starlink. I've seen no issues with 1/4-1/2"/hr rain. Granted that is rare in N. NV. But they are transmitting with a lot of power in both directions. I got my first solid disconnection during a massive storm in TX when we were there for the eclipse. That was enough rain that it was piling up in the street. I didn't check my weather station as we were headed for a storm shelter. On 5/6/24 11:10 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: What I found most interesting were the following things I did not know: a.. Starlink needs a Northern sky exposure b.. Starlink has busy hour throttling c.. Starlink slows with rain (expected, and understandable but had not heard that before) I liked that she found a brand of booster that she says works well. From: Robert Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 11:59 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me) I've watched her for years and she has, occasionally, some good stuff. But on the whole she has gotten so into promoting what she was paid for and in a few cases gotten caught promoting bad products. She major league jumped on board a cell internet reseller and promoted a really dishonest company because she didn't wait long enough for the bad to come out. Then claimed innocence... Well here she was again. T-Mobile just chomped down on those people using T-mobile home service away from home. If you want to do what she is promoting, it's now $160/month On _any_ cellular internet service, I say wait 1.5 years to find out if the provider is really going to support it or is it a bait and switch. ATT did exactly that 4 years ago, even promoting the service with mobile users just to pull it all away after usage became too high in just over a year. On 5/6/24 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: https://youtu.be/XcofyNWDyao?si=0ulY_LiFcb2HlnaY -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me)
What I found most interesting were the following things I did not know: a.. Starlink needs a Northern sky exposure b.. Starlink has busy hour throttling c.. Starlink slows with rain (expected, and understandable but had not heard that before) I liked that she found a brand of booster that she says works well. From: Robert Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 11:59 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Interesting (to me) I've watched her for years and she has, occasionally, some good stuff. But on the whole she has gotten so into promoting what she was paid for and in a few cases gotten caught promoting bad products. She major league jumped on board a cell internet reseller and promoted a really dishonest company because she didn't wait long enough for the bad to come out. Then claimed innocence... Well here she was again. T-Mobile just chomped down on those people using T-mobile home service away from home. If you want to do what she is promoting, it's now $160/month On _any_ cellular internet service, I say wait 1.5 years to find out if the provider is really going to support it or is it a bait and switch. ATT did exactly that 4 years ago, even promoting the service with mobile users just to pull it all away after usage became too high in just over a year. On 5/6/24 10:16 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: https://youtu.be/XcofyNWDyao?si=0ulY_LiFcb2HlnaY -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Pot
After my last meth lab blew up my motor home, I quit doing it.
From: dmmoff...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, May 6, 2024 11:07 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
I started on lisdexamfetamine recently. My productivity is much higher. My
focus still drifts elsewhere, but I find I recenter on my main task more
quickly.
ADHD is profoundly genetic by the way. If your son has it then you or his
mother does. The current thinking is that it’s so widespread because it’s a
survival adaptation which happens to not always fit well into the structures of
our modern life. A study in Kenya compared a nomadic population with a settled
one. The genes responsible are well known, so they could identify who in each
population had them and compare their outcomes. Among the settled population
the kids with ADHD genes had worse grades in school, and the adults were less
well nourished. Among the hunter-gatherer nomads, the people with ADHD genes
were more well nourished.
We probably shouldn’t medicate kids for it as much as we do, but I’m saying in
my case a little bump of amphetamine in the morning does me good.
-Adam
From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 3:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
OK, looking at it another way. Some people need meds to be normal. My son has a
prescription for lisdexamfetamine because he has ADHD. He's not impaired, and
it's not like he's a meth head.
That said, I can see a problem if your employee wants to smoke a joint in the
workplace. Bigtime secondhand smoke problem. And if you don't want him
operating machinery or vehicles, your insurance company would probably agree.
Has he asked to bring his emotional support alligator to work yet?
Original Message
From: "Jan-GAMs"
Sent: 5/3/2024 2:20:33 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
First I would ask for the Dr. to call me. 2nd I would suspend the employee
until the Dr. calls me. It could be a type of pot that doesn't impair but I
wouldn't want to take the chance. Third, I'd find someone not impaired and
have them do the job. Put the doper in charge of a broom until layoff time.
On 5/3/24 09:40, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
My google-foo says it can be:
Kevin
Ken
Gary
Terry
but I like Darren too.
bpOn 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
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“I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is it
Darren?)
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
I have always had employees that were in rehab. But never had anyone using
at work before this guy. He pointed to the fact he has a pot card for anxiety.
I have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I
doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask while working.
I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to
operate equipment. But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his job.
I would make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds temporarily that
left them a bit impaired but not as an every day thing.
This guy was MAX drama too. One thing I tell everyone when I hire them,
the only thing I really care about is no drama. Do not bring your drama to
work.
From: Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment
On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18?AM wrote:
I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in
someone’s work schedule.
…..which I would do anyway. If they’re working on getting straight I
don’t want to stand in their way. I don’t know if anyone
[AFMUG] Interesting (to me)
https://youtu.be/XcofyNWDyao?si=0ulY_LiFcb2HlnaY -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic
I remember the first IRU I got quoted. It amounted to a figure equal to building it ourselves. My first time hearing the term IRU too. That was probably 25 years ago. From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, May 5, 2024 2:15 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic >From a non-profit middle-mile provider we pay $42/month/fiber-mile for a >lease. Same company does a 20-year IRU for $1000/fiber-mile. There’s a >recurring maintenance fee on the IRU, but it’s peanuts. I’m betting these >prices are near the floor. I don’t believe there’s a ceiling. From: AF On Behalf Of Zach Underwood Sent: Friday, May 03, 2024 11:28 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic We pay $700 per month for a pair of dark fiber about 6km route from our data center to one of our sites both in downtown Atlanta from zayo. We run 40gbps 10km optics. On Fri, May 3, 2024, 11:04 PM Chris Fabien wrote: We have seen an extremely wide range of prices for dark fiber leases, it's one of these things where every situation and provider is different. I have been quoted prices over $100/mo per strand-mile and as low as $15/mo/strand-mile. A lot of the value seems to be what they suspect you're going to try to do with the strands. 50 Miles to a datacenter, you're gonna be running NxDWDM 100gig waves, big money. Shorter local/metro distance that maybe gets you between your NOC and a small/WISP style tower, or maybe grabbing a piece of an "island" run that can't even connect to anything else, much more reasonable prices. On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 5:50 PM Darin Steffl wrote: > > For those of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you have? > > I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? IRU costs, lease, swaps with other providers, etc? > > I want some sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start looking at this over wavelengths for shorter paths. > > On Thu, May 2, 2024, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien wrote: >> >> Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands >> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM >> Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a >> splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a >> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands >> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our >> handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any >> potential add/drop points because each does have some loss. >> >> On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF >> wrote: >> > >> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber. These will allow us to build a loop between two points on our network. We have been told we can also break into this fiber within our loop. I'm guessing when we break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our handhole and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut into that fiber. >> > >> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location. I was thinking of CWDM. I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send multiple wave lengths down the fiber. Is there a way for me to break out just one wavelength at a hand hole passively? >> > >> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer. Is there away for me in the hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm. Put something like a 1x2 splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the customer site. Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to preserve the loop for that one customer. >> > >> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the DWDM/CWDM modules? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> > >> > Myakka Communications >> > www.Myakka.com >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AF mailing list >> > AF@af.afmug.com >> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Pot
We caught him smoking out in the yard in one of our vehicles. He was asked to
find his happiness elsewhere.
Best Regards,
Chuck McCown
McCown Technology Corporation
8401 N Commerce Dr
Lake Point, Utah 84074
801-250-9503 Office
435-830-4306 Cell
www.mccowntech.com
www.microtrench.pro
www.terabitnetworks.com
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 1:49 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
OK, looking at it another way. Some people need meds to be normal. My son has a
prescription for lisdexamfetamine because he has ADHD. He's not impaired, and
it's not like he's a meth head.
That said, I can see a problem if your employee wants to smoke a joint in the
workplace. Bigtime secondhand smoke problem. And if you don't want him
operating machinery or vehicles, your insurance company would probably agree.
Has he asked to bring his emotional support alligator to work yet?
Original Message
From: "Jan-GAMs"
Sent: 5/3/2024 2:20:33 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
First I would ask for the Dr. to call me. 2nd I would suspend the employee
until the Dr. calls me. It could be a type of pot that doesn't impair but I
wouldn't want to take the chance. Third, I'd find someone not impaired and
have them do the job. Put the doper in charge of a broom until layoff time.
On 5/3/24 09:40, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha...
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
My google-foo says it can be:
Kevin
Ken
Gary
Terry
but I like Darren too.
bp
On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} @font-face {font-family:"Cambria
Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}@font-face {font-family:aptos;}@font-face
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mso-ligatures:none;}div.wordsection1 {page:wordsection1;}
“I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is it
Darren?)
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
I have always had employees that were in rehab. But never had anyone using
at work before this guy. He pointed to the fact he has a pot card for anxiety.
I have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I
doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask while working.
I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to
operate equipment. But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his job.
I would make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds temporarily that
left them a bit impaired but not as an every day thing.
This guy was MAX drama too. One thing I tell everyone when I hire them,
the only thing I really care about is no drama. Do not bring your drama to
work.
From: Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment
On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18?AM wrote:
I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in
someone’s work schedule.
…..which I would do anyway. If they’re working on getting straight I
don’t want to stand in their way. I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for pot
though. Probably not.
-Adam
From: AF On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List
Account)
Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot
Utah code 26-61a-111(4)..
"Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the
use of medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to have
policies restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or employees."
There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that
marijuana use is not subject to the ADA.
On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42?PM Chuck McCown via AF
wrote:
If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to
allow them to partake at work.
Sent from my iPhone
--
AF
Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
First computer I actually programmed was an altair 8080 programmed with the front panel switches. First computer I ever touched and played with was a terminal connected to a mainframe somewhere in a science museum in Oregon. It had a moon lander simulator on it. -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 11:24 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code I programmed the first computers I worked on in binary. You would fat-finger instructions in through the front console, one bit at a time. bp On 5/3/2024 10:12 AM, Larry Smith via AF wrote: On Fri May 3 2024 11:37, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: At least I am not older than FORmula TRANslation or Common Business Oriented Language. Hmmm, I programmed in both -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Pot
Darrin makes me think of Samantha oh, Samantha... From: Bill Prince Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:21 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot My google-foo says it can be: Kevin Ken Gary Terry but I like Darren too. bp On 5/3/2024 9:09 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: “I have a card” = entitled Karen (I forget the name for a male Karen, is it Darren?) From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, May 3, 2024 10:29 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot I have always had employees that were in rehab. But never had anyone using at work before this guy. He pointed to the fact he has a pot card for anxiety. I have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask while working. I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to operate equipment. But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his job. I would make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds temporarily that left them a bit impaired but not as an every day thing. This guy was MAX drama too. One thing I tell everyone when I hire them, the only thing I really care about is no drama. Do not bring your drama to work. From: Steve Jones Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18 AM wrote: I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in someone’s work schedule. …..which I would do anyway. If they’re working on getting straight I don’t want to stand in their way. I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for pot though. Probably not. -Adam From: AF On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot Utah code 26-61a-111(4).. "Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the use of medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to have policies restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or employees." There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that marijuana use is not subject to the ADA. On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow them to partake at work. Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code
I am older than Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code Damn. At least I am not older than FORmula TRANslation or Common Business Oriented Language. That would make me Really Old... ;-) -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Pot
I have always had employees that were in rehab. But never had anyone using at work before this guy. He pointed to the fact he has a pot card for anxiety. I have a card in my pocket that says I am old enough to buy whisky too, but I doubt any employer would be OK with me sucking a flask while working. I know certain prescription conventional drugs can make you not safe to operate equipment. But this guy had to operate equipment as part of his job. I would make an accommodation for someone that had pain meds temporarily that left them a bit impaired but not as an every day thing. This guy was MAX drama too. One thing I tell everyone when I hire them, the only thing I really care about is no drama. Do not bring your drama to work. From: Steve Jones Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:01 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot lite duty, no operating machinery or equipment On Wed, May 1, 2024, 9:18 AM wrote: I think the ADA does want you to accommodate rehab appointments in someone’s work schedule. …..which I would do anyway. If they’re working on getting straight I don’t want to stand in their way. I don’t know if anyone goes to rehab for pot though. Probably not. -Adam From: AF On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List Account) Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2024 5:11 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Pot Utah code 26-61a-111(4).. "Nothing in this section requires a private employer to accommodate the use of medical cannabis or affects the ability of a private employer to have policies restricting the use of medical cannabis by applicants or employees." There are also federal court cases where the court has determined that marijuana use is not subject to the ADA. On Tue, Apr 30, 2024, 10:42 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow them to partake at work. Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic
Yes, you can do exactly that. Makes it easy to use a single or pair of strands in a large variety of ways. Love WDM. -Original Message- From: Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2024 10:26 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: Mark - Myakka Technologies Subject: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber. These will allow us to build a loop between two points on our network. We have been told we can also break into this fiber within our loop. I'm guessing when we break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our handhole and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut into that fiber. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location. I was thinking of CWDM. I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send multiple wave lengths down the fiber. Is there a way for me to break out just one wavelength at a hand hole passively? Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer. Is there away for me in the hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm. Put something like a 1x2 splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the customer site. Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to preserve the loop for that one customer. Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the DWDM/CWDM modules? -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats....
Just barely. I am looking more like Wilford Brimley every day. Right when they pretty much gave up on getting it started. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Robert Andrews Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 11:06 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats Didn't see you in the vid, was hoping you would be... On 5/1/24 09:36, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: That's my son Ben in there talking about what we do here. He pretty much runs the show. I am just the old dog wandering from office to office looking for snacks. -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:55 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats So it dropped... will have to take a look. Thanks. www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:36 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Fab Rats Watching my youtubes this am and Fab Rats goes to pick up an airport tug and the fellow in the video says "We build microtrenching equipment" ( Fab Rats is in Utah ) and I glimpse a bit of what looks like the MTC logo and sure enough MTC is on youtube... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats....
That's my son Ben in there talking about what we do here. He pretty much runs the show. I am just the old dog wandering from office to office looking for snacks. -Original Message- From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:55 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats So it dropped... will have to take a look. Thanks. www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:36 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Fab Rats Watching my youtubes this am and Fab Rats goes to pick up an airport tug and the fellow in the video says "We build microtrenching equipment" ( Fab Rats is in Utah ) and I glimpse a bit of what looks like the MTC logo and sure enough MTC is on youtube... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fab Rats....
So it dropped... will have to take a look. Thanks. www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 9:36 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] Fab Rats Watching my youtubes this am and Fab Rats goes to pick up an airport tug and the fellow in the video says "We build microtrenching equipment" ( Fab Rats is in Utah ) and I glimpse a bit of what looks like the MTC logo and sure enough MTC is on youtube... -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Won One
I imagine he got into primary. Electrical drops are no more dangerous than an extension cord. I was string a long aerial telephone drop about 45 years ago that had to cross under the primary. When tensioning it it flipped and almost touched. Not sure what it would have done to me but the drop line went clear to the ground where the reel was in the back of my truck. I imagine I would have been some form of crispy. From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2024 8:02 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One “crap job on the aerial drop (too close to electrical service entrance wires) but I was tired of arguing” Hopefully 40” or greater. A cable guy in the NY Hudson Valley area was literally incinerated by a power line a couple weeks ago. The 40” clearance rule is there for a serious frickin reason. From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 5:45 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One Business installs can get crazy with the number of subs who just do one thing. And if you ordered a static IP or block or want help setting up the “gateway”, the guy who basically just plugs in the modem doesn’t know anything about that, he tells you to call customer support. I got Comcast cable Internet at my house replacing RCN (they really suck bigly) and they just sent one guy but he just had a regular passenger car with a ladder on top. I kept trying to tell him no that wasn’t the Comcast drop cable it was the RCN cable and I hadn’t cancelled them yet so no he couldn’t just steal it. The 20 year old Comcast cable was all rotten and he was going to have to run a new one. He still cut the RCN cable and I made him splice it back. I knew that Comcast was the old Jones Intercable and they were below the power wires on the poles and RCN was the old Americast which was below the Comcast cables, but he didn’t seem to know that. Or else he was just being lazy and trying to avoid running a new drop. He still IMHO did a crap job on the aerial drop (too close to electrical service entrance wires) but I was tired of arguing. The Comcast 2 Gbps service however has been flawless. From: AF On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 4:10 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One It’s pretty common to have drop cable teams separate from the house install teams. I think the reasoning is you can subcontract drop cables, but you want to keep the customer facing piece in house. The other reason is a customer doesn’t need to be home for the drop cable to get done, so you don’t have to schedule that with them. I can see having a sub who does the aerial part of a drop and another sub who does an underground portion, and then your in-house installer comes in to hang the NID on the house and run a cable in to the CPE. That’s about the maximum number of ways I can see it logically divided up. How many steps could Comcast have? From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 2:09 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One >From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no other >choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a different >crew to do every micro-step of an installation. bpOn 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss leader service. He lasted a couple months. He said their customer service is non existent. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Pot
If an employee has a prescription for pot for anxiety do we have to allow them to partake at work. Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Won One
The crack heads will
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 12:38 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One
So do customers try to repair fiber cuts with wire nuts?
From: AF On Behalf Of Jan-GAMs
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 1:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One
And along comes the 12 year-old neighbor kid to mow the lawn.
On 4/29/24 15:24, Ken Hohhof wrote:
The lay it in the crack guy was there. The kick dirt on it guy comes next
week. Maybe Steve can be that guy.
Original Message
From: "Mike Hammett"
Sent: 4/29/2024 5:14:21 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One
p { margin: 0; }
Sometimes it's not even that. I literally did see a drop that was just laid
into a crack in the dirt. No effort was done to cover it.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
--
From: "Steve Jones" mailto:st...@togservice.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 4:50:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One
I want to do drops for metronet. just kick dirt on the fiber.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2024, 1:29?PM Mike Hammett wrote:
MetroNet does the same thing.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
From: "Bill Prince"
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 1:09:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Won One
From my limited experience with them (mostly through friends who have no
other choice), their installations are "divide an conquer. They send out a
different crew to do every micro-step of an installation.
bpOn 4/29/2024 10:52 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss
leader service.
He lasted a couple months.
He said their customer service is non existent.
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Won One
Had a 150 Mbps customer leave for Comcast/Xfinity 1.3 G $25/ month loss leader service. He lasted a couple months. He said their customer service is non existent. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun
As long as you also have a supply of calcium gluconate you might be OK. I am always amazed that it is sold to hobbyists for glass etching. -Original Message- From: Robert Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 10:23 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun My old H.S. chemistry professor ( Dr. Welch ) kept a bottle of hydrofluoric acid under his desk in a wax bottle of unknown quality. That was an interesting removal... On 4/29/24 8:59 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Pretty much in the middle of Salt Lake City. The guy the lived there (had died recently I think) was a chemist at the University of Utah. His wife found a spill of mercury and asked for help in safely removing it. As a result they found over 500 containers of chemicals and very very old dynamite. Totally a no win situation. You might have been able to soak it in diesel and built a small electric kiln over it to incinerate in place. But monday morning quarterbacking. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 8:13 AM To: AFMUG Subject: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun FROM: News of the Weird Boom! In Holladay, Utah, authorities were summoned to a home on April 23 to advise a homeowner on how to dispose of “a lot” of explosives, including “ancient dynamite” that had been in the family for “generations and generations.” Capt. Tony Barker of the Unified Fire Authority said the collectors did not appear to have malicious intent. KUTV reported that multiple agencies descended on the home, where it was determined that they would have to conduct a controlled explosion. Of course, that's just EAST Utah. Right Chuck? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun
Pretty much in the middle of Salt Lake City. The guy the lived there (had died recently I think) was a chemist at the University of Utah. His wife found a spill of mercury and asked for help in safely removing it. As a result they found over 500 containers of chemicals and very very old dynamite. Totally a no win situation. You might have been able to soak it in diesel and built a small electric kiln over it to incinerate in place. But monday morning quarterbacking. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 8:13 AM To: AFMUG Subject: [AFMUG] OT: East Utah fun FROM: News of the Weird Boom! In Holladay, Utah, authorities were summoned to a home on April 23 to advise a homeowner on how to dispose of “a lot” of explosives, including “ancient dynamite” that had been in the family for “generations and generations.” Capt. Tony Barker of the Unified Fire Authority said the collectors did not appear to have malicious intent. KUTV reported that multiple agencies descended on the home, where it was determined that they would have to conduct a controlled explosion. Of course, that's just EAST Utah. Right Chuck? -- bp -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: Govt funded fiber - Utopia
They did pledge sales tax revenue to back the bonds. So if UTOPIA cannot make its debt service the sales tax will fill in. I wonder if that has happened yet. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 2:13 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Govt funded fiber - Utopia I am not from Utah and don't understand how UTOPIA is financed. Doing some Google searches, I am still in the dark. But while revenue bonds would not take funds away from other govt services, it doesn't seem like that's the case. I saw several references to additional debt and municipalities pledging sales tax revenues to prop up UTOPIA. I was actually thinking more of federal grant programs like CAF, RDOF and BEAD. And philosophically I like the UTOPIA model of public infrastructure used by any and all service providers. Sounds like it hasn't worked all that well in practice though. Original Message From: "Bill Prince" Sent: 4/27/2024 2:57:40 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Govt funded fiber - Utopia Bernie Madoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff bp On 4/27/2024 12:47 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: But I think UTOPIA is supposed to be making the bond payments itself. The real question is where does the money come from to cover the shortfall each year. The only other source of money they have is signing up new cities. If that is how they operate they will eventually run out of new cities in Utah. I think they are coming close to running out now. Anyone know how to spell PONZI... -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 1:38 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Bonds are paid (usually, unless specified differently when they were issued) out of general revenue funds. If the funds used to pay bonds take away enough, the services get compromised, reduced, or not funded at all. bp On 4/27/2024 9:33 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: I fail to see how revenue bonds divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public. Jared Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 From: "Ken Hohhof" To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Everything’s political now, of course. But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer.” In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at taxpayer expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the space program. Now apparently high speed Internet is the thing of the moment that takes precedence over all the other broken things that we might wish government to fix. I sometimes wonder why Internet? Maybe because it seems easy and gives people the power to hand out billions of dollars. Could they cure cancer or get lead out of drinking water or fix all the deteriorating bridges with something like a BEAD program? Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to a future where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need any of those other things. Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in Futurama. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia I am surprised they have never broke even. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com[mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Article: https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/[https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/] On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com]> wrote: By John Dougall For the Deseret News Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by the private sector. Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous private-sector providers being available. The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer. Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here in Uta
[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
But I think UTOPIA is supposed to be making the bond payments itself. The real question is where does the money come from to cover the shortfall each year. The only other source of money they have is signing up new cities. If that is how they operate they will eventually run out of new cities in Utah. I think they are coming close to running out now. Anyone know how to spell PONZI... -Original Message- From: Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 1:38 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Bonds are paid (usually, unless specified differently when they were issued) out of general revenue funds. If the funds used to pay bonds take away enough, the services get compromised, reduced, or not funded at all. bp On 4/27/2024 9:33 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote: I fail to see how revenue bonds divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public. Jared Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 From: "Ken Hohhof" To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Everything’s political now, of course. But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer.” In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at taxpayer expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the space program. Now apparently high speed Internet is the thing of the moment that takes precedence over all the other broken things that we might wish government to fix. I sometimes wonder why Internet? Maybe because it seems easy and gives people the power to hand out billions of dollars. Could they cure cancer or get lead out of drinking water or fix all the deteriorating bridges with something like a BEAD program? Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to a future where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need any of those other things. Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in Futurama. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia I am surprised they have never broke even. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com[mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Article: https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/[https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/] On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com]> wrote: By John Dougall For the Deseret News Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by the private sector. Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous private-sector providers being available. The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer. Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA. In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the city’s telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to finance the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale, and iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google for $1. Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities. But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades now. The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three to four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of debt. And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continue
[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: Govt funded fiber - Utopia
If they default, yes. They are in the tens of millions deficit each year. I wonder where they get the money for the shortfall. -Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 10:33 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia I fail to see how revenue bonds divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public. Jared Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 From: "Ken Hohhof" To: "'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Everything’s political now, of course. But he does have a point when he says “Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer.” In the past, the government has undertaken vast programs at taxpayer expense like rural electrification, the interstate highway system, the space program. Now apparently high speed Internet is the thing of the moment that takes precedence over all the other broken things that we might wish government to fix. I sometimes wonder why Internet? Maybe because it seems easy and gives people the power to hand out billions of dollars. Could they cure cancer or get lead out of drinking water or fix all the deteriorating bridges with something like a BEAD program? Maybe they think broadband and AI and neural implants will lead to a future where everyone is plugged into the network and doesn’t need any of those other things. Maybe we’ll all be heads in jars like in Futurama. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com; John Brewer Subject: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia I am surprised they have never broke even. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com[mailto:ch...@go-mtc.com] Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Article: https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/[https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/] On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com]> wrote: By John Dougall For the Deseret News Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by the private sector. Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous private-sector providers being available. The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer. Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA. In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the city’s telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to finance the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale, and iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google for $1. Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities. But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades now. The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three to four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of debt. And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand. For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues to expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is that UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate. As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My office investigated this an
[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Re: ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
I am surprised they have never broke even. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 4:02 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: John Brewer ; ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia Article: https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2024/04/19/government-internet-service-bad-for-taxpayers/ On Fri, Apr 26, 2024 at 4:59 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: By John Dougall For the Deseret News Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by the private sector. Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous private-sector providers being available. The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer. Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA. In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the city’s telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to finance the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale, and iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google for $1. Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities. But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades now. The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three to four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of debt. And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand. For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues to expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is that UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate. As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My office investigated this and other claims, then we wrote a letter identifying these inaccurate statements. We instructed UTOPIA to do the following: •Discard or destroy marketing materials with misleading statements. • Ensure future communications more accurately reflect the dependence on taxpayer support. •Take steps to remedy the misrepresentations regarding the lack of taxpayer support to any individual or entity that received the inaccurate information. UTOPIA’s shortcomings do not stop there, however. Rather than providing internet access to the more than 40,000 homes and small businesses that lack internet access today, UTOPIA, like other government-owned networks, builds redundant networks that compete with existing private providers, many who are also regulated by the cities in which they operate. Unfortunately, iProvo and UTOPIA are no different from other government-owned fiber networks across the country, which fail financially about 90% of the time. When taxpayer money is being diverted from critical services into pet broadband projects, that money is not going where it is needed most. Taxpayers expect government to maintain roads, provide safe drinking water and keep their communities safe. Money spent propping up broadband services costs taxpayers money, encumbered by decades of debt, and deprives them of important and sufficient government services they want and deserve. Plus, higher taxes burden families, many of whom are struggling today just to provide for themselves. Government-owned broadband has done enough harm to taxpayers. iProvo and UTOPIA should be seen as an example for policymakers of what to avoid. Public officials across the country, and especially here in Utah, should resist the appealing allure of expanding or deploying government-owned networks, which allure has been shown to be deceptive, and ultimately destructive, to taxpayers. John Dougall is the Utah State Auditor
[AFMUG] ***SPAM*** Govt funded fiber - Utopia
By John Dougall For the Deseret News Most Utahns probably agree that government should stick to essential government services and stay out of enterprises that are better performed by the private sector. Yet, across the country and right here in Utah, more and more governments are building government-owned internet networks, despite numerous private-sector providers being available. The number of government-owned networks is increasing by the day, and taxpayers, not users, are often footing the bill. Government-owned broadband networks cost millions of dollars and divert essential funding away from services that really matter to the public — services such as police and fire, roads, water and sewer. Two unfortunate examples of government-owned broadband networks right here in Utah are iProvo and UTOPIA. In 2004, Provo launched iProvo to provide broadband internet services to homes and business. Provo reportedly bonded for $36.5 million to bring service to every home in the city and wrote off $5.4 million that the city’s telecommunications fund owed the Energy Department’s reserve fund to finance the costly deployment. After struggling to make the network viable, iProvo was sold in 2008. But its buyer failed to fulfill the terms of the sale, and iProvo reverted back to the city. In 2013, in a desperate attempt to free itself of the failed venture, the city ultimately sold iProvo to Google for $1. Similarly, UTOPIA (Utah Telecommunications Open Infrastructure Agency) was launched to provide broadband internet services to a consortium of cities. But UTOPIA has failed to fulfill its promises for more than two decades now. The project, which started in 2002, was projected to be finished in three to four years. Fast forward to today, and it is still incomplete. Not only is UTOPIA incomplete, but the project has racked up $300 million worth of debt. And despite iProvo’s example of failure, UTOPIA continues to expand. For years, UTOPIA consistently lost money, expecting taxpayers to cover those losses. In addition to this, the government-owned network continues to expand and pull other cities into this trap. What’s more egregious is that UTOPIA misrepresented its performance as it pitched cities on buying into the expansion fever. For example, UTOPIA once claimed the network had “no cost to taxpayers since 2009.” This statement was patently inaccurate. As your watchdog, I help you to hold your government accountable. My office investigated this and other claims, then we wrote a letter identifying these inaccurate statements. We instructed UTOPIA to do the following: •Discard or destroy marketing materials with misleading statements. • Ensure future communications more accurately reflect the dependence on taxpayer support. •Take steps to remedy the misrepresentations regarding the lack of taxpayer support to any individual or entity that received the inaccurate information. UTOPIA’s shortcomings do not stop there, however. Rather than providing internet access to the more than 40,000 homes and small businesses that lack internet access today, UTOPIA, like other government-owned networks, builds redundant networks that compete with existing private providers, many who are also regulated by the cities in which they operate. Unfortunately, iProvo and UTOPIA are no different from other government-owned fiber networks across the country, which fail financially about 90% of the time. When taxpayer money is being diverted from critical services into pet broadband projects, that money is not going where it is needed most. Taxpayers expect government to maintain roads, provide safe drinking water and keep their communities safe. Money spent propping up broadband services costs taxpayers money, encumbered by decades of debt, and deprives them of important and sufficient government services they want and deserve. Plus, higher taxes burden families, many of whom are struggling today just to provide for themselves. Government-owned broadband has done enough harm to taxpayers. iProvo and UTOPIA should be seen as an example for policymakers of what to avoid. Public officials across the country, and especially here in Utah, should resist the appealing allure of expanding or deploying government-owned networks, which allure has been shown to be deceptive, and ultimately destructive, to taxpayers. John Dougall is the Utah State Auditor and is a candidate for Utah’s 3rd congressional district. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
The hubble lens grinder off-ed himself due to his mistake. That was a pretty bad mistake. And some middle manager at NASA chose to not test the mirror prior to being installed. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 11:24 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna Surprising Tesla wasn’t able to fix the Cybertruck accelerator pedal problem with an over-the-air software update and had to use a rivet. I guess it’s like the oops with the Hubble telescope. Sometimes only a hardware fix will do. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 11:47 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna Had to send him to Japan. He was the guy that used the GOTO in a C program. I told him to NEVER use a GOTO. But he did. GOTO in C does not mind the stack. From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 10:22 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna Yeah, that was an awesome fix. Super brilliant folks working on it. I once shipped 2000 units of a product that had a software glitch. Stack overflow after 32 operations. It was OTP ram based MCU. Expensive buggers. I tried so hard to find a bit to burn to change an op code to cause a jump to unused memory to vector around the problem. I totally failed. Send an employee with 2000 chips to change. I am wholly appreciate what they accomplished. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:14 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna On a related note, Voyager 1 is talking to us again. Yay, VGER! https://gizmodo.com/nasa-voyager-probe-making-sense-months-gibberish-1851427197 From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:15 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna thats what we install at everybodies house On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
Had to send him to Japan. He was the guy that used the GOTO in a C program. I told him to NEVER use a GOTO. But he did. GOTO in C does not mind the stack. From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 10:22 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna Yeah, that was an awesome fix. Super brilliant folks working on it. I once shipped 2000 units of a product that had a software glitch. Stack overflow after 32 operations. It was OTP ram based MCU. Expensive buggers. I tried so hard to find a bit to burn to change an op code to cause a jump to unused memory to vector around the problem. I totally failed. Send an employee with 2000 chips to change. I am wholly appreciate what they accomplished. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:14 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna On a related note, Voyager 1 is talking to us again. Yay, VGER! https://gizmodo.com/nasa-voyager-probe-making-sense-months-gibberish-1851427197 From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:15 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna thats what we install at everybodies house On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
Yeah, that was an awesome fix. Super brilliant folks working on it. I once shipped 2000 units of a product that had a software glitch. Stack overflow after 32 operations. It was OTP ram based MCU. Expensive buggers. I tried so hard to find a bit to burn to change an op code to cause a jump to unused memory to vector around the problem. I totally failed. Send an employee with 2000 chips to change. I am wholly appreciate what they accomplished. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:14 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna On a related note, Voyager 1 is talking to us again. Yay, VGER! https://gizmodo.com/nasa-voyager-probe-making-sense-months-gibberish-1851427197 From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 9:15 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna thats what we install at everybodies house On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof wrote: https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Bard
(ii) b + ! (ii) b -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
“The Dish” Great factual comedy that blends Apollo 11 and antennas. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 10:24 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna
Ever seen the move “The Big Dish”? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2024 10:24 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] now that's a big antenna https://spectrum.ieee.org/apollo-era-antenna-voyager-2 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Killer 900MHz?
I would go with the vent as the number one suspect. The antenna is probably pretty isotropic. You would see more of a graduated spherical damage I would think. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2024 10:42 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Killer 900MHz? No, although sometimes I wish it could happen, so we could clear out the RF path without a chainsaw. I look at the photo and see a vent, some garbage cans, the electrical service entrance, some suspicious white stuff on the ground, but it has to be the smart meter that is killing the evergreen. Even though the 900 MHz chip probably only transmits when polled. And it couldn’t possibly be the cold wind or dogs peeing on the evergreen or they didn’t water it during a drought. Probably this person posted the photo while holding their phone half an inch from their brain. Remember the viral photo of cellphones making popcorn pop? (fake of course) From: AF On Behalf Of David Hannum Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2024 11:17 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] Killer 900MHz? I know that needles really absorb 900mhz, but could this happen? I can't see it at legal ERIP levels? What do you engineers say? Dave -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] LiFePO4 question again
You will need a BMS unless the battery has one built in. If it does, a regular telco rectifier will do the job. -Original Message- From: Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF Sent: Friday, April 5, 2024 10:58 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: Mark - Myakka Technologies Subject: [AFMUG] LiFePO4 question again I'm finding hard to pass up just getting a 100ah 48v LiFePO4 rackmount battery. I have a new fiber system that will need a maximum of 3kw once it is maxed out over the years. This seems like an easy and clean battery solution. Question is how do I power the system from the AC side on a daily basis and keep the battery charged. The normal rectifier way seems to be a bit lacking in LiFePO4 support. I can get a EG4 Chargeverter 48V 100A Battery Charger that looks like it would do the job. Not sure if this thing is designed to run 24/7 at load or if it is designed for intermittent loads to just charge batteries. Thoughts? -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Fw: Thank You for a Great Career
From: Ray Savich Sent: Friday, April 5, 2024 7:58 AM To: Ray Savich Cc: Ray Savich Subject: Thank You for a Great Career After 19 years in the fixed wireless broadband industry, it is time for me to retire from Cambium Networks. During my time working with you, we have evolved from 10 Mbps per sector access points to multi-gigabit subscriber modules and FTTH. I have enjoyed working with you collaborating on case studies, events, and interviews while we connected people around the world. You are great friends in sharing your experiences so that we can all do better together. It is astounding to think of how many people this industry has connected through our collected efforts. I start retirement at the end of the month. As I prepare for my next phase, I would like to keep in touch. Please feel free to reach out to me at raysav...@gmail.com or through LinkedIn. Thank you for an amazing career. Ray Follow us Cambium Blog | Community | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Twitter | YouTube -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT fun
https://youtu.be/8z1OZKec1_A?si=Y5IxckeDd3RMBdDZ Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
Actually Ken, it is the easiest welder I have ever used. MIG is easy but this
is easier.
If you can run a hot glue gun or a caulking gun you can run this.
From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 10:12 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
Not being a welder, I always forget the different between MIG and TIG welding.
I think I saw a demo on a Motor Trend channel show once (don’t laugh, I think
it was Jessi Combs on All Girls Garage). So I just went and found a pretty
good Youtube video some guy did. Seems like MIG welding means less warpage and
lots more sanding.
But my takeaway is for someone like me who lacks the skill and steady hands for
TIG welding, don’t even consider Chuck’s laser welder.
From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 10:15 AM
To: Cameron Crum
Cc: Chuck McCown ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
Way more. Like $30k
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 25, 2024, at 7:36 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:
Cost vs a mig welder?
On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 9:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Hand held.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Hand held? Or like a CNC machine?
Original Message
From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
Cc: "Chuck McCown"
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
A lot like using a glue gun.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF
wrote:
?
I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and
hydraulic tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be
strong enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld.
Even over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or
goggles. Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to
the workpiece too.
Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass
bead oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits.
The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals
could come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the
controller was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on
properly so it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they
did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it
had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance
of things ever touching.
So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular
offset hole in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the
panel to accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back
side so there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job.
Those tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and
did them.
I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the
patch. It was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke
or melt or deform.
So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do
aluminum too. It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than
a mig welder but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy
nitrogen filters to make it yourself.
If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument
panel, this is the tool you want.
From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro.
--
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
We got ours from the local Linde welding gas supplier. Not sure the brand
name.
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2024 10:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
OK, you made me look.
Googling "laser welder" I get over 9 million hits. Narrowing it to just
"shopping", I get prices ranging from $500 to over $50K.
I presume the issues are power, size, and what else?
We have a friend who welds for his business and has quite an assortment of
welding equipment. Where would I send him if he's interested?
bp
On 3/25/2024 8:15 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Way more. Like $30k
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 25, 2024, at 7:36 AM, Cameron Crum mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com wrote:
Cost vs a mig welder?
On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 9:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
Hand held.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Hand held? Or like a CNC machine?
Original Message
From: "Chuck McCown via AF"
Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PM
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
Cc: "Chuck McCown"
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
A lot like using a glue gun.
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF
wrote:
?
I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and
hydraulic tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be
strong enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld.
Even over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or
goggles. Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to
the workpiece too.
Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass
bead oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits.
The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals
could come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the
controller was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on
properly so it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they
did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it
had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance
of things ever touching.
So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular
offset hole in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the
panel to accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back
side so there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job.
Those tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and
did them.
I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the
patch. It was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke
or melt or deform.
So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do
aluminum too. It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than
a mig welder but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy
nitrogen filters to make it yourself.
If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument
panel, this is the tool you want.
From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro.
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
Way more. Like $30kSent from my iPhoneOn Mar 25, 2024, at 7:36 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:Cost vs a mig welder?On Sat, Mar 23, 2024 at 9:35 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote:Hand held.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 23, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Ken Hohhof <khoh...@kwom.com> wrote:Hand held? Or like a CNC machine? Original Message From: "Chuck McCown via AF" Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PMTo: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: "Chuck McCown" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser WelderA lot like using a glue gun.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote:? I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and hydraulic tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be strong enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld. Even over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or goggles. Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to the workpiece too. Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits. The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the controller was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on properly so it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance of things ever touching. So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset hole in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the panel to accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back side so there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job. Those tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and did them. I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch. It was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke or melt or deform. So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do aluminum too. It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig welder but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen filters to make it yourself. If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument panel, this is the tool you want. From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro. -- AF mailing listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- AF mailing listAF@af.afmug.comhttp://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com-- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
Hand held. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 23, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > > Hand held? Or like a CNC machine? > > Original Message > From: "Chuck McCown via AF" > Sent: 3/23/2024 6:27:37 PM > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" > Cc: "Chuck McCown" > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder > > A lot like using a glue gun. > > Sent from my iPhone > >>> On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >>> >> ? >> I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and hydraulic >> tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be strong >> enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld. Even >> over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or goggles. >> Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to the >> workpiece too. >> >> Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead >> oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits. >> >> The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could >> come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the >> controller was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on >> properly so it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they >> did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, >> it had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no >> chance of things ever touching. >> >> So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset >> hole in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the >> panel to accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back >> side so there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job. >> Those tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there >> and did them. >> >> I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch. It >> was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke or melt >> or deform. >> >> So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do aluminum >> too. It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig >> welder but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen >> filters to make it yourself. >> >> If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument panel, >> this is the tool you want. >> From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro. >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
A lot like using a glue gun. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > > > I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and hydraulic > tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be strong > enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld. Even > over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or goggles. > Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to the > workpiece too. > > Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead > oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits. > > The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could come > in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the controller > was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on properly so > it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they did a good > job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it had to be > offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance of things > ever touching. > > So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset hole > in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the panel to > accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back side so > there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job. Those > tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and did > them. > > I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch. It > was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke or melt > or deform. > > So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do aluminum too. > It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig welder > but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen filters > to make it yourself. > > If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument panel, > this is the tool you want. > From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro. > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
A lot like using a glue stick. Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 23, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: > > > I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and hydraulic > tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be strong > enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld. Even > over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or goggles. > Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to the > workpiece too. > > Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead > oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits. > > The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could come > in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the controller > was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on properly so > it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they did a good > job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it had to be > offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance of things > ever touching. > > So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset hole > in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the panel to > accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back side so > there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job. Those > tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and did > them. > > I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch. It > was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke or melt > or deform. > > So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do aluminum too. > It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig welder > but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen filters > to make it yourself. > > If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument panel, > this is the tool you want. > From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro. > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT Laser Welder
I bought a laser welder with the hope it would improve my fuel and hydraulic tank welding. I was very skeptical that such a small bead would be strong enough. But it is as strong as the base metal and is a perfect weld. Even over dirty and rusty metal. Super fast. You only need glasses or goggles. Not even that bright. Brazing is brighter. And with minimal heat to the workpiece too. Today, we were putting a PID temperature controller on an old glass bead oven/kiln so I can do some temperature research on my diamond cutter bits. The guys had mounted the controller in a place where its terminals could come in contact with some 120 VAC going to the heating elements if the controller was wiggled a bit. And they didn’t have the bezel hold down on properly so it was wiggley. I noticed the problems immediately. While they did a good job centering the controller in the middle of the control panel, it had to be offset a bit to the right and down to make sure there was no chance of things ever touching. So I cut a rectangular piece of 16 gauge steel with a rectangular offset hole in it for the temperature controller. Then cut some notches in the panel to accommodate the offset. Then put some tiny weld beads on the back side so there are no welds visible from the outside. Super nice repair job. Those tiny weld beads are if a 6” man with a tiny MIG welder got in there and did them. I welded this in with the temperature controller installed in the patch. It was a half inch away from the weld. Nothing got hot enough to smoke or melt or deform. So easy to do perfect work on super thin metal. And it will do aluminum too. It does take nitrogen shielding gas and probably uses more than a mig welder but that is no big deal. Nitrogen is cheap and you can buy nitrogen filters to make it yourself. If you even need to do some rework or or repair to a metal instrument panel, this is the tool you want. >From the thinnest sheet metal up to .250” it can make anyone a pro. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi
They made me get a franchise here in our county. But they do it to the others as well. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 11:08 AM To: ch...@go-mtc.com Cc: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi *nods* It sure is a lifesaver here in IL. As long as you don't plan on doing linear TV, you don't need a franchise, therefore if you pay into the state telecom tax fund (on voice revenues), you can build in the public ROW and easements and do so at no permit cost. Now the easement or ROW has to allow for telecom. A lot of the rural ones only allow for a road, so then you have to get your own easement anyway. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: ch...@go-mtc.com To: "Mike Hammett" , "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 12:05:26 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi The more important detail is that we are regulated as carriers. That is helpful to point out for ROW and easement occupancy. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 10:59 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi The FCC's First Report and Order, issued in September 2005, ruled that providers of broadband Internet access and interconnected VoIP services are regulable as “telecommunications carriers” under CALEA. That order was affirmed and further clarified by the Second Report and Order, dated May 2006. On May 5, 2006, a group of higher education and library organizations led by the American Council on Education (ACE) challenged that ruling, arguing that CALEA did not apply to them. On June 9, 2006, the D.C. Circuit Court summarily denied the petition without addressing the constitutionality.[11] - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ---- From: "Chuck McCown via AF" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 11:43:51 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi I was under the impression that CALEA was for telephone call intercepts? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 4:29 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but it’s one I don’t know much about. If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance? We have parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi. There are also MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc. My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re ordered to do so. Do you also have to be able to identify the individual? If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no problem. If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be able to tell them it was someone at the park. At best I could give them a MAC address and hostname. If I have to identify the customer that’s easy: the municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not what they will want to know. Will this stuff get us in trouble? -Adam -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi
The more important detail is that we are regulated as carriers. That is helpful to point out for ROW and easement occupancy. From: Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 10:59 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi The FCC's First Report and Order, issued in September 2005, ruled that providers of broadband Internet access and interconnected VoIP services are regulable as “telecommunications carriers” under CALEA. That order was affirmed and further clarified by the Second Report and Order, dated May 2006. On May 5, 2006, a group of higher education and library organizations led by the American Council on Education (ACE) challenged that ruling, arguing that CALEA did not apply to them. On June 9, 2006, the D.C. Circuit Court summarily denied the petition without addressing the constitutionality.[11] - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Chuck McCown via AF" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 11:43:51 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi I was under the impression that CALEA was for telephone call intercepts? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 4:29 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but it’s one I don’t know much about. If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance? We have parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi. There are also MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc. My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re ordered to do so. Do you also have to be able to identify the individual? If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no problem. If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be able to tell them it was someone at the park. At best I could give them a MAC address and hostname. If I have to identify the customer that’s easy: the municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not what they will want to know. Will this stuff get us in trouble? -Adam -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi
I was under the impression that CALEA was for telephone call intercepts? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 4:29 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [AFMUG] CALEA and WiFi CALEA hasn’t been on my radar much, so this is probably an old topic, but it’s one I don’t know much about. If you provide WiFi in a public space how do you handle compliance? We have parks, airports, and other public spaces with managed WiFi. There are also MDU’s with WiFi in a public area like a courtyard, lounge, lobby, etc. My understanding is you have to be able to capture traffic if you’re ordered to do so. Do you also have to be able to identify the individual? If they ever asked me to capture all traffic from the park WiFi….sure no problem. If they gave me a particular IP, port, and time, and they wanted me to start capturing traffic AND identify who it was, then I would only be able to tell them it was someone at the park. At best I could give them a MAC address and hostname. If I have to identify the customer that’s easy: the municipal parks department, but I’m guessing that’s not what they will want to know. Will this stuff get us in trouble? -Adam -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] PON question
IMO PON is nor more or less redundant/robust than old fashioned POTS. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 3:39 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question Mike Hammett kind of touched on what I was asking and why. I was told that Metronet near me had a hut in Batavia that also served St. Charles, Geneva, West Chicago, etc. via PON. Also a company that built a middle mile / anchor institution fiber network with a BTOP grant 12+ years ago convinced the county to let them take it private, and they have run aerial fiber in most of Shabbona which is one of the towns Mike mentioned. With my misconception about how FTTH is typically deployed, I expected there to be at least one cabinet or hut in town. But I think they are just using strands from the BTOP project and feeding it passively from a distant town. I would prefer to see more redundancy, especially since both buried and aerial fiber definitely gets damaged around here, but I guess practical results matter more than what-ifs. At least local power outages shouldn’t take it down, and a central NOC or hut should be able to have serious battery and/or generator backup. From: AF On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 4:12 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question PON is one port at your end and then goes through splitters that reduce light and add ports to end up at customer ONTs. 1:128 is pretty short range and high customer count - we could never do that in a rural plant (5-15 miles). Maybe 1:64 but that's about the limit. There is NO redundancy in PON. Best you could do is 2x32 or whatever splitters which is where you feed the downstream fiber with two PON ports. An engineer from Metronet told me they did that but no one could ever answer why (technically or operationally). Think like you have an AP on a tower feeding 32 customers. What are the chances you have an AP right below it with the same SSID/PSK/frequency for the customers to connect to if the first AP goes down? Think of Active E like a bunch of dumb switches. You have a 48 port switch that goes to 48 customers using 48 fibers. If the fiber feeding the switch goes down, it can go to a different fiber/uplink port. On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 7:59 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things, maybe someone can clear something up for me. I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC. I expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active EPL style fiber. Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber cut wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic would reroute. I’ve been told this is not the case. And that instead, each PON could go back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all passive. Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure out what I’m asking. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] PON question
Always nice if you can ring all your remotes/cabinets. But you can home run the customers of feed many off of a single strand. We put splitters in splice cases as needed but I put in enough strands to do active ethernet if we want. Very flexible. If you cut down the the number of splits you can reach farther, just like a coaxial network. However the reach is crazy compared to coax. I have heard of splits as high as 128 per strand. All of our new stuff is XGS-PON. Dropped a bunch of money on it and have not even used it yet. From: Mark Radabaugh Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2024 11:04 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] PON question XGS-PON can theoretically run at 100km, though 60km is about the practical limit we have seen, With a active cabinet in the center and a 60km reach you can have an effective diameter of ~70 miles. With slack, routing, sag, etc. 50 miles is a possibility for cabinet spacing. In the rural areas we use a 10 mile radius with active cabinets 20 miles apart. The active cabinet feeds unpowered splitters either in splice cases along the way, and also feeds passive splitter cabinets in the pockets of density (subdivisions, villages, towns).If the density in a village becomes high enough (or grows) the passive cabinet can be changed to an active cabinet and the fiber previously used to feed splitters becomes your 100G feed into the cabinet. The cabinets that are 20 miles apart have a ring (well, more of a mesh) feed of 100G links to them to provide redundancy, but there is no protection for the PON customers on the passive side. There are ways to provide for PON redundancy including dual fed PON’s with a live / standby link, but it’s significantly more complex to engineer (and IMHO not worth the complexity) given the overall reliability and simplicity of GPON. For a high value customer that needs redundancy active fiber is simpler to deal with for creating redundancy. Mark On Mar 15, 2024, at 7:57 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Since there are FTTH people here and I’m mostly ignorant of such things, maybe someone can clear something up for me. I always assumed a PON based FTTH system had a topology kind of like HFC. I expected fiber down the street with splitters, but fed by some sort of neighborhood node in a cabinet with power and electronics, fed by active EPL style fiber. Which could have redundant paths, rings, etc. so a fiber cut wouldn’t take down a whole town or multiple towns, the backbone traffic would reroute. I’ve been told this is not the case. And that instead, each PON could go back over a strand to a headend several towns and many miles away, all passive. Sorry for the poor description of my question, hopefully you can figure out what I’m asking. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Nice call
Not gonna do that. Our rates are far and equitable. From: Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 3:36 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Josh Luthman Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: RE: [AFMUG] Nice call Offer to match. $25/mo is $25/mo that you wouldn’t otherwise make. Jim Bouse Owner Brazos WiFi 979-985-5912 j...@brazoswifi.com From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 4:24 PM To: Josh Luthman ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call How you gonna fight $25/month for 1G? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:15 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your depreciating ONT. Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost revenue :/ On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Just had a call from a former customer. He was wanting to come back. He went with an Xfinity $25/month deal. This was 2 years ago. The deal expired and now he wants to come back. We left the ONT and are ready to simply turn him back on. Nice to win one back like that. Especially against those guys. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Nice call
How you gonna fight $25/month for 1G? Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: Josh Luthman Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2024 3:15 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Nice call They made money for 2 years and you made negative money with your depreciating ONT. Better now that he's back but damn that's a lot of lost revenue :/ On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 5:17 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Just had a call from a former customer. He was wanting to come back. He went with an Xfinity $25/month deal. This was 2 years ago. The deal expired and now he wants to come back. We left the ONT and are ready to simply turn him back on. Nice to win one back like that. Especially against those guys. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Nice call
Just had a call from a former customer. He was wanting to come back. He went with an Xfinity $25/month deal. This was 2 years ago. The deal expired and now he wants to come back. We left the ONT and are ready to simply turn him back on. Nice to win one back like that. Especially against those guys. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool
I agree, if it can be spooled off by hand, put on their gloves and do it. Fig 8 is OK but if you have enough room to just pull it off in a straight line, it goes faster. -Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 2:02 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool If it's too broken to sit on an axle and rotate then I can see why they wouldn't want to play with it. I'm feeling salty today, but for thousands of dollars worth of cable they should suck it up and do it anyway. My only question would be whether to figure-8 the whole thing onto the ground or to take a side off the spool and try to slide the whole coil onto a pipe. Either way, proceed to wind it up onto another spool. Fancy machines are all well and good, but they ought to be able to put some gloves on and spin the new spool by hand. Or bolt a pipe flange to the wood if they need a handle. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2024 11:15 AM To: AFMUG Cc: Mark - Myakka Technologies Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool I have some 144 fiber that is sitting on a wooden spool that is rotting away. Apparently this spool is in real bad shape. I'm waiting on some pictures to see how bad. Guys are telling me we are going to have to abandon all the fiber. I hoping to try to re-spool it to another spool. Any tips or tricks? -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool
Perfect -Original Message- From: Nate Burke Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 9:54 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool Sounds like it would be similar to the machines used to lay field tile. If you could get it on this, it should spool out. https://www.machinerypete.com/details/field-drainage-equipment/2023/liebrecht/tile-trailer/21037638 On 3/6/2024 10:45 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: It would have to be pretty bad to not be able to be salvaged. I would try to unspool it out in a straight line in a field. Then use a spool trailer that has some power to wind it back up on a good spool. There are some old horizontal pay out trailers that were largely used for open wire line. No idea where you could find one. But even if you had to remove all the reel parts and just have the coils you could use that. You could make one by taking a truck or trailer wheel and spindle and making a horizontal lazy susan turntable to put the reel on and pay it out that way. -Original Message- From: Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 9:14 AM To: AFMUG Cc: Mark - Myakka Technologies Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool I have some 144 fiber that is sitting on a wooden spool that is rotting away. Apparently this spool is in real bad shape. I'm waiting on some pictures to see how bad. Guys are telling me we are going to have to abandon all the fiber. I hoping to try to re-spool it to another spool. Any tips or tricks? -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool
It would have to be pretty bad to not be able to be salvaged. I would try to unspool it out in a straight line in a field. Then use a spool trailer that has some power to wind it back up on a good spool. There are some old horizontal pay out trailers that were largely used for open wire line. No idea where you could find one. But even if you had to remove all the reel parts and just have the coils you could use that. You could make one by taking a truck or trailer wheel and spindle and making a horizontal lazy susan turntable to put the reel on and pay it out that way. -Original Message- From: Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 9:14 AM To: AFMUG Cc: Mark - Myakka Technologies Subject: [AFMUG] Fiber on bad spool I have some 144 fiber that is sitting on a wooden spool that is rotting away. Apparently this spool is in real bad shape. I'm waiting on some pictures to see how bad. Guys are telling me we are going to have to abandon all the fiber. I hoping to try to re-spool it to another spool. Any tips or tricks? -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
We can never see the license plates. From: Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2024 8:50 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience It might be OK. The G5-PRO has a visor over the top, plus, in this instance it will be pointed down at an approximately 45° angle. I think it will be mounted high enough that there won't be any splash from the ground below. That said, it would not be a problem for me to fashion an additional visor. Thanks for the tip though. bp On 3/5/2024 7:35 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: The problem I've found with bullt in illumination for outdoor cameras is that often the leds for illumination are behind the glass the camera is looking through. As a result, the illuminator ends up illuminating anything that is on the glass and preventing good night vision. In an outdoor setting, the glass doesn't stay clean for very long so for outdoor cameras I almost always use an external illuminator. I don't know how the camera you mentioned is designed and if that is the case with it. On Mon, Mar 4, 2024, 2:35 PM Bill Prince wrote: I might, but the built-in illuminator goes an advertised 82 feet, which is a bit farther than I need. I've seen comparisons between the G5 cameras and the G4s and G3s, and the G5 is noticeably sharper; even in IR. bp On 3/4/2024 12:30 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: > Someone told me there is a USB connector for powering an illuminator. But > it sounds like you are already planning on one of these: > https://store.ui.com/us/en/collections/unifi-accessory-tech-camera-enhancers > /products/uacc-g5-enhancer > > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 2:13 PM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience > > The G5-PRO does allow you to turn off its IR so you can add a different > illuminator. However, being color blind, I'm not all that impressed by > color. That would also require running another cable to power the > illuminator. > > bp > > > On 3/4/2024 11:37 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >> Some people get a powerful add-on IR illuminator, that could also let you >> choose the wavelength to make sure it's not visible. >> >> I've seen ads for color night vision cameras, that could be good IF it > works >> as advertised. On our G4 Pro tower cameras I wish I could delay the > switch >> to night vision until it's really dark, the B image is less useful. >> >> Here's an example of what I've seen advertised: >> >> https://www.tp-link.com/us/technology/tapo-camera/ >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince >> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 1:09 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience >> >> The only problems with that camera are 1)Effectively no sun in this >> location, 2)No LTE available there, 3)No IR mode, and 4)The spotlight > (which >> I don't want anyway) only goes 26 feet (big whoop). >> >> >> bp >> >> >> On 3/4/2024 10:43 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: >>> Not really answering your question, but I did see this article a few >>> days >>> ago: >>> https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/27/24085151/anker-eufy-4k-lte-cam-s330 >>> -featu >>> res-price >>> >>> As far as Ubiquiti cameras, I only have the F4-Pro so can't comment on >>> the G5. >>> >>> At night, IR mode is a mixed bag. People and critters become glowing >> eyes. >>> In some weather we get swirling fog or mystery floaties. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince >>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 12:31 PM >>> To: AFMUG >>> Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience >>> >>> I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a >>> 3-Stooges script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after >> all. >>> We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and >>> with terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property. >>> It will be about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights >>> down there, and the spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to >>> reach that I don't want to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a >> wired/POE camera. >>> The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi >>> UVC-G5-PRO, mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and >>> the image quality is noticeably better than the G4 and below models. >>> It also has enough smarts to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone >> come driving up. >>> One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I >>> don't know if the IR is low or no
Re: [AFMUG] Security camera experience
I got both. Just have no useful comments. From: Bill Prince Sent: Monday, March 4, 2024 10:31 AM To: AFMUG Subject: [AFMUG] Security camera experience I tried sending this "OT", but nothing happened (reminds me of a 3-Stooges script), so I decided that maybe it's not so off topic after all. We want to put up a security camera where it is far enough away, and with terrain & tree issues overlooking the entrance to our property. It will be about 50-60 feet above the driveway. There are no lights down there, and the spot where I want to put it is difficult enough to reach that I don't want to mess with batteries or WiFi. So it will be a wired/POE camera. The camera that (so far) seems to meet my needs is the Unifi UVC-G5-PRO, mainly because it has an ~~80 foot range in IR mode, and the image quality is noticeably better than the G4 and below models. It also has enough smarts to act as a "doorbell" of sorts should anyone come driving up. One downside is that it's WHITE, so I will need to camo it somewhat. I don't know if the IR is low or no glow, but that would be a major plus if it had it because I don't want it drawing attention. It will also require Ubiqiti's Cloud Key G2+ to act as an NVR (and it can handle a few more cameras should the need arise). Before I pull the trigger on this, I thought I'd throw it out to the Borg to see if anyone has any other thoughts or recommendations. -- bp -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn
Yep, we have a Universal Robot U10 welder to keep up with orders. Hopefully by this time next year I will manufacture or supply 100% of everything a contractor needs to do microtrenching except for the fiber blowing and splicing. Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 7:40 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn I went and watched a couple of your videos. Those are some big blades. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 12:19 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn Youtube channel is alive and well. Full of microtrenching stuff. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 4:50 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn In drag racing, NASCAR, etc. the cars are covered with stickers from parts manufacturers. I don't suppose you could get your customers to put your name on their vehicles. Perhaps more seriously, I'm not sure people in our business spend much time on Linkedin or even Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, etc. But a common denominator seems to be Youtube instructional videos. I think you should bring back your Youtube channel. Videos of actual customers using your products on the job would be excellent. What was the brand of tools they were always pushing on Home Improvement, Binford? Oh, and the Tool Time girl. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 9:20 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn I will be the first to proclaim that I am not your marketing guru. However, I play a stellar hindsight game. Back in the day, I worked for a company with a head of marketing that was really good at predicting the exact opposite way to go. I commented once in a group of co-workers that they should plant an arrow out of his back, and go that way. FWIW, I have never acted on any of the 10-bazillion offers I've gotten from LinkedIn. So maybe it's a good idea? bp On 3/1/2024 7:56 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I've never tried it, but I would think no. Total waste of time and money. Note however that I am a marketing ignoramus. I am the person you ask and then do the opposite. So yes it would probably do great. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:36 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort? Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn
Youtube channel is alive and well. Full of microtrenching stuff. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 4:50 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn In drag racing, NASCAR, etc. the cars are covered with stickers from parts manufacturers. I don't suppose you could get your customers to put your name on their vehicles. Perhaps more seriously, I'm not sure people in our business spend much time on Linkedin or even Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, etc. But a common denominator seems to be Youtube instructional videos. I think you should bring back your Youtube channel. Videos of actual customers using your products on the job would be excellent. What was the brand of tools they were always pushing on Home Improvement, Binford? Oh, and the Tool Time girl. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 9:20 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn I will be the first to proclaim that I am not your marketing guru. However, I play a stellar hindsight game. Back in the day, I worked for a company with a head of marketing that was really good at predicting the exact opposite way to go. I commented once in a group of co-workers that they should plant an arrow out of his back, and go that way. FWIW, I have never acted on any of the 10-bazillion offers I've gotten from LinkedIn. So maybe it's a good idea? bp On 3/1/2024 7:56 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I've never tried it, but I would think no. Total waste of time and money. Note however that I am a marketing ignoramus. I am the person you ask and then do the opposite. So yes it would probably do great. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:36 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort? Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn
I am not very marketing savvy at all. But it is a necessary evil. I see other companies doing marketing there. Most of my bang comes from a FB group I started. -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2024 4:56 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn I've never tried it, but I would think no. Total waste of time and money. Note however that I am a marketing ignoramus. I am the person you ask and then do the opposite. So yes it would probably do great. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Friday, March 1, 2024 9:36 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: Chuck McCown Subject: [AFMUG] OT LinkedIn Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort? Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT LinkedIn
Is a marketing campaign on LinkedIn worth the effort? Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
Way too busy building microtrench blades, saws, grout machines etc. From: Steve Jones Sent: Thursday, February 29, 2024 9:09 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount "I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator. Not sure if he is doing the chain mount or not. " WTF chuck On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 12:20 PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator. Not sure if he is doing the chain mount or not. Hunter Clark hun...@c3fab.com Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:10 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount Chain mount. Chuck has them as does PV and CommScope. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick CTIconnect 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@cticonnect.com On Feb 20, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I think I’ve got some of the Valmont ones on the shelf. Like everything from SitePro1, they are huskier than they look in the catalog. From: AF On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:40 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount +1 to both of those suggestions. a.. I’ve seen plenty of universal mounts attached to a wooden pole (J-arms, J-pipes, or whatever you want to call them). b.. Rohn WM4 is the name brand galvanized 4” wall mount, but there are a thousand copies out there. Just watch out for zinc plating or other BS finishes. I’m sure Channel Master is fine. One other thing, you’re not supposed to drill into the top surface of a wooden pole because rain will pool in the holes and speed up rotting. You’re also not supposed to drill the sides within so many inches of the top (4” maybe? I don’t recall). That’s why those pole-top mounts you see are straddling the top and have bolt holes farther down. If you put a galvanized pipe into one of those wall mounts then you can have your mast above the top and also not be putting hardware at the top. Electric/phone companies won’t like that solution because it uses more vertical real estate, but if it’s just a light pole then it ought not be a problem. If you do want something heavy duty that won’t break the bank then look at the Site Pro version of the WM4: https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=1218 https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/HDWM04%20(Assembly).pdf I don’t know the thickness of the steel stock, but the Channel Master one weighs 1 pound and the Site Pro one weighs 6.8 pounds, so I’m sure it’s sufficiently burly for most equipment. -Adam From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:52 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets. Original Message From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount Just use a Jpole? Or an MTOW? On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt wrote: I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does anyone know of anything? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
But on the nut, curve in or out?... ;-) -Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 4:04 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount If you're putting that rod through a pole, spend an extra $2 on a square curve washer for the back side: https://www.linemen-tools.com/Square_Curved_Washer_2_1_2_x_2_1_2_x_3_16_J6822_p/h-j6822.htm What you're describing might be a conduit standoff bracket. That same linemen-tools.com site may have something similar if you dig through their catalog. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 2:54 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount I like this but pricey but still will likely go with it if I find nothing else. https://www.commscope.com/product-type/structural-support-tools-accessories/structural-support-equipment/structural-mounts/pipe-mounts/itemdb365w/ I saw one on a pole a few weeks back that had a banding bracket with a hose clamp that went around the steel pipe and a long bolt that went through the wood pole. Been looking online for something like that with no luck. Its like above with bolt through pole but instead of clamp kit it had a banding bracket and hose clamp to attach to the metal pipe. Have used j-arms for this before but they're flimsy and have had them blow over in the wind. Not wanting that to happen in this application. On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 9:29 AM Matt wrote: I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does anyone know of anything? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount
I sold off all my tower mount business to a local fabricator. Not sure if he is doing the chain mount or not. Hunter Clark hun...@c3fab.com Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:10 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount Chain mount. Chuck has them as does PV and CommScope. Regards, Jeff Jeff Broadwick CTIconnect 312-205-2519 Office 574-220-7826 Cell jbroadw...@cticonnect.com On Feb 20, 2024, at 1:06 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I think I’ve got some of the Valmont ones on the shelf. Like everything from SitePro1, they are huskier than they look in the catalog. From: AF On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 11:40 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount +1 to both of those suggestions. a.. I’ve seen plenty of universal mounts attached to a wooden pole (J-arms, J-pipes, or whatever you want to call them). b.. Rohn WM4 is the name brand galvanized 4” wall mount, but there are a thousand copies out there. Just watch out for zinc plating or other BS finishes. I’m sure Channel Master is fine. One other thing, you’re not supposed to drill into the top surface of a wooden pole because rain will pool in the holes and speed up rotting. You’re also not supposed to drill the sides within so many inches of the top (4” maybe? I don’t recall). That’s why those pole-top mounts you see are straddling the top and have bolt holes farther down. If you put a galvanized pipe into one of those wall mounts then you can have your mast above the top and also not be putting hardware at the top. Electric/phone companies won’t like that solution because it uses more vertical real estate, but if it’s just a light pole then it ought not be a problem. If you do want something heavy duty that won’t break the bank then look at the Site Pro version of the WM4: https://www.sitepro1.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list=1218 https://valmont-sitepro1-cdn.s3.amazonaws.com/spec-sheet/HDWM04%20(Assembly).pdf I don’t know the thickness of the steel stock, but the Channel Master one weighs 1 pound and the Site Pro one weighs 6.8 pounds, so I’m sure it’s sufficiently burly for most equipment. -Adam From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2024 10:52 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount Or the ChannelMaster 4" offset wall mounts, we call them W brackets. Original Message From: "Josh Luthman" Sent: 2/20/2024 9:37:59 AM To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Wood Pole Mount Just use a Jpole? Or an MTOW? On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 10:31?AM Matt wrote: I need to mount a small steel pole to a wood light pole. The kits I see online are like $300 range and way more robust than I need. Just mounting a small yagi a few feet above the top of the wood pole. Does anyone know of anything? -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen
Someone said they unbolted the sections. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 1:32 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen So you’re saying they used an axe? From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:21 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen I was the first to jump to it being either an inside job or someone that really had an axe to grind with the owner. The effort involved in stealing a tower would not be worth the value of the scrap steel I would not think. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 1:16 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen Not once you cut the wires and/or steal the transmitter. But there have been multiple reports the site has been offline for years and lying to the FCC so they can operate via their FM repeater. Not saying the reports are true, what’s the acronym now for “just asking questions”, JAQ? From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:09 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent they all energized? On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule? Does that apply to cars? How about spouses? From: AF On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen It's in our neighboring county. Been there, know the guy, know the station. For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 2014) 1) Ok, why on EARTH is this viral? Like internationally viral? 2) For all the backstory / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on facebook) : https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741 3) Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just unscrew it in 10 foot sections just like a rohn25, no? I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho. Clearly no one listens to that AM, except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years. In my home county we have two licensed AMS, 1340 and 1460. 1460 has been off air for at least 5 years, but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed. 1340 signed off last week - the property had been abandoned, seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy currently running it), and now it's being sold for a development of houses. Good for them. Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also silent - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown via AF To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen From: Jaime Solorza Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen
I was the first to jump to it being either an inside job or someone that really had an axe to grind with the owner. The effort involved in stealing a tower would not be worth the value of the scrap steel I would not think. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 1:16 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen Not once you cut the wires and/or steal the transmitter. But there have been multiple reports the site has been offline for years and lying to the FCC so they can operate via their FM repeater. Not saying the reports are true, what’s the acronym now for “just asking questions”, JAQ? From: AF On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Monday, February 19, 2024 2:09 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen How does somebody steal an AM tower without getting electrocuted? arent they all energized? On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 5:50 PM Ken Hohhof wrote: Is that the “you’re not using it so it’s mine now” rule? Does that apply to cars? How about spouses? From: AF On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 4:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen It's in our neighboring county. Been there, know the guy, know the station. For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 2014) 1) Ok, why on EARTH is this viral? Like internationally viral? 2) For all the backstory / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on facebook) : https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741 3) Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just unscrew it in 10 foot sections just like a rohn25, no? I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho. Clearly no one listens to that AM, except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years. In my home county we have two licensed AMS, 1340 and 1460. 1460 has been off air for at least 5 years, but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed. 1340 signed off last week - the property had been abandoned, seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy currently running it), and now it's being sold for a development of houses. Good for them. Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also silent - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown via AF To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen From: Jaime Solorza Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature
For a while, I tried to modify my behavior to not trample the feelings of (several of) my kids that are a bit thin skinned. But this summer, having almost lost my wife while on vacation in Barcelona, I just said screw it. If they want the privilege of being around me, they will just have to put up with me. They speak of boundaries, so I decided I have boundaries too. Deal with it or leave. You might miss me once I am gone. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 5:56 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature Excuse me while I yell at a cloud. From: AF On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 6:47 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature Oh sorry, I didn’t mean to say that you were a hater. I’m getting older, so to act my age I have to do some general purpose grouching. From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 11:55 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature I didn’t mean to come across as a hater. The 450 features they have given us are impressive, in my case a bit overwhelming. I feel like I just sat down in the cockpit of a big commercial airplane. Everything you say is true, I just need some quiet time and some brain enhancer pills to wrap my head around all the options. I hope the money guys aren’t leaning too heavily into “FWA is dead, gotta pivot quick to fiber”. Yes, do new things if you have some advantages that will allow you to be successful, but you also have to be able to walk and chew gum. From: AF On Behalf Of dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:38 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature I loved that stats were there and that documentation accurately described what they meant and what the knobs are for. I also always felt that Cambium was listening to the operators and trying to give us what we needed and wanted. If you can read, you can use the product without support, but in the few cases I did need support it was available and I didn’t have to pay for it. They also never BS’d me about what the product could do, and they never failed to support a product for a reasonable amount of time….even the 320 which was kind of a dog. Telrad documentation would take a whole paragraph to tell you how to change an integer value and not ever tell you what it does. We also paid real money for support who couldn’t help us, and certain people there made absurd claims about capabilities. Ubiquiti gives you what they give you and doesn’t help you at all. You can try to get answers on the forum, but the signal to noise ratio on a support forum can be terrible. Alvarion VL was a decent product for it’s time, but all their Wimax stuff was garbage. I’d actually take PMP320 with all of its idiosyncrasies over any Alvarion BreezeMax or whatever else. And the list of terrible PMP products is too long to get into. There must have been three dozen stupid WiFi things packaged up like they were something more awesome than just a stupid WiFi thing. I don’t know what’s up with Cambium haters. Did they actually use it and objectively compare it to the competition, or are they blinded by the desire to save a few dollars? Anyway…..the short version of all that is that all I had to do to appreciate Cambium PMP was try someone else’s crap for awhile. If the worst thing we have to complain about is that a feature shipped before a license key was on the market then that’s not a bad product. -Adam From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 10:33 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature 450m and 450 in general has so many knobs you can tweak and stats to analyze it seems they should have an AI powered advisor in cnMaestro to help you optimize the settings. Original Message From: "Tyson Burris" Sent: 2/13/2024 9:23:06 AM To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450m uplink interference cancellation feature Cambium is in a bit of scramble mode with everything going on and folks breathing down their neck. I fully expect this to be a free unlock at this point. Tyson Burris President & CEO Internet Communications Inc (ICI) 739 Commerce Dr. Franklin, IN 46131 317-412-1540 (emergency/after-hours) 317-738-0320 (office) t...@franklinisp.net ??www.surfici.net Fixed Wireless Broadband - PtP/PtMP Solutions – Indoor/Oudoor Wifi - IP Cameras - Fiber – MDUs Active Member To The Following: WISPA
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Would you kiss a monkey though? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:48 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Had to look that up, but yes. But from a less selfish standpoint, with all the stuff going on in the world right now, it seems like there are bigger problems that need solving between now and 2038. If my kids are still around in 2038 (and apes or cockroaches or space aliens don’t rule the world), I hope the worst problem they face is whether Linux has a date rollover problem. Rather than being like Charlton Heston shouting you bastards, you finally did it, you blew it up! From: AF On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 5:59 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux i.e. you are raising your SEP field... On 2/12/24 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
Well that was a bit shortsighted... From: Bill Prince Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 4:06 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux When I worked for Tandem back in the 80s, around 1985, they ran a project they called Grandfather, where they decided to use the Julian date in a 64-bit integer representing the number of microseconds since 4713 BC. Since there are only 31,556,952,000,000 microseconds per year, that means their clock would not roll over for around 580,000 years. Good enough for me. bp On 2/12/2024 2:38 PM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_time#Operating_systems Fun chart here. Linux kernels after 5.10 support dates up to July 2486. The 2038 thing affects older kernels. It also may impact a variety of other things that might have stored dates as a 32 bit integer. File system time stamps, database time fields, etc. The time data type in C was originally 32 bit, and changing it to 64 bit creates compatibility problems for code which assumed a 32 bit value. If it’s C compiled recently for a 64 bit system then it maybe probably has a 64 bit time data type already, but old software may run for a long time. People are already coding for dates farther into the future than 2038 so the issue would be with embedded systems that never get replaced or updated. I’m sure there are innumerable examples, but I suspect most of them are systems that don’t really care what year it is. If a negative value breaks it, then reset the clock to 1978 and buy yourself another 50 years to get your upgrade budget approved. Interestingly, according to that chart, Windows supports dates past the year 30,000, but the IBM PC BIOS only counts up to 2079. I suppose the next panic will be when 2079 approaches. -Adam From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 3:54 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux Someone explain to me why the system clock is a signed integer? We need the IPV6 version of the system clock. Also please note that David Mills; the inventor of NTP passed away January 17, 2024. He was known as "Father Time". bpOn 2/12/2024 11:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: I’m not President or a Senator or Supreme Court Justice, so in 2038 I plan to be retired or dead. It will be somebody else’s problem. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 1:02 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux "The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT 2038 Linux
"The latest time which can be represented like this is 03:14:07 UTC on January 19, 2038," said Zimmie. "Once the timer is incremented from this second, the value 'overflows' and goes from being a large positive number to being a large negative number. The next second this counter can represent is 20:45:52 UTC on December 13, 1901. This is called the Year 2038 Problem." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen
Don’t you have to log transmitter power each day? From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Friday, February 9, 2024 3:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen It's in our neighboring county. Been there, know the guy, know the station. For those of you who don't know, I operate a LPFM in our home county (since 2014) 1) Ok, why on EARTH is this viral? Like internationally viral? 2) For all the backstory / scuttlebutt you could ever want (and not even on facebook) : https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/wjlx-200-tower-reported-stolen.769741 3) Ok, so chop chop the guy wires, the tower thuds on the ground and you just unscrew it in 10 foot sections just like a rohn25, no? I don't know how "no one" knew it was missing tho. Clearly no one listens to that AM, except for the locals, who say it has been off air for at least 5 years. In my home county we have two licensed AMS, 1340 and 1460. 1460 has been off air for at least 5 years, but never filed as silent and still shows as licensed. 1340 signed off last week - the property had been abandoned, seized for unpaid taxes, auctioned from the federal government (all by the guy currently running it), and now it's being sold for a development of houses. Good for them. Promise you lots of other AMS feeding fm translators where the AMs are also silent - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown via AF To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 2:18 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen From: Jaime Solorza Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877 -- -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Fw: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen
From: Jaime Solorza Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2024 12:42 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: NBC News: Alabama station in disbelief after 200-foot radio tower stolen https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-station-disbelief-200-foot-radio-tower-stolen-rcna137877 -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse
Yeah, I always wondered if the smoke was toxic. Nice bang and a bunch of paper fluff floating around. Did you ever retaliate? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 9:38 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse When I was in college we had something called cooperative education or “coop jobs”, basically a semester in industry as a paid intern. At my coop job you typically arrived at 8am, grabbed coffee from the machine, and turned on the power strip at your lab bench. They never tired of sticking an electrolytic capacitor into one of the outlets on your power strip so it would explode. Almost as much fun as a banana potato. From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Wednesday, February 7, 2024 10:16 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse I always used a potato. bpOn 2/7/2024 7:48 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: Variac is just an autotransformer with a variable tap. Not surprising you can swap input and output. Watch out for voltage ratings though. And wrong gender plugs. I thought it was potato in the tailpipe. Original Message From: "Cameron Crum" Sent: 2/7/2024 9:15:03 AM To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse Ah the old 'variac in reverse' trick, similar to a banana in the tailpipe. On Tue, Feb 6, 2024 at 6:05?PM Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Was testing a repair to a 480 volt induction heater today. One of our employees decided to blow the dirt out of it, took the cover off and got a copper tube across an inductor to case ground. It was probably 800 VDC at that spot. Discharged the capacitor. Sounded like a gunshot. Tripped a 125 amp 480 volt breaker at our power service panel. Turning it off at the front switch just turns off the control circuitry. Everything else is hot unless you kill the breaker on the back of the unit. I think the kid is still shaking. In any event, took the power supply to the lab. Used a variac to put 0 to 130 volts across each leg with a clamp on volt meter on it as I tested. Never got past 10 volts and was drawing 3-5 amps. 3 phase bridge rectifier was totally shorted out. Exactly as expected. These things take raw 480 VAC, rectifier, 800 VDC cap and then on to the IGBT transistors that chop it into ac etc. I was hoping it was just the rectifier. So we got the replacement today. Put it in and started testing. No current, all the way up to 130 volts. But the cap was charging. So far looks good. Told my sons to take it back and hook it up to 480. My son Frank said “just reverse your variac and use it to step up”. I initially refused to believe it would work. Then I thought through it a bit and decided that it actually should work. I started with the variac set at 130 volts output. Feeding 120 into the output gave us about 110 on the input (that was connected across one phase of the induction unit). As I turned the variac down the voltage went up. I got to 380 volts before we started smelling that wonderful “Allen Bradley” wafting through the lab and the variac started buzzing pretty bad. I think I got it down to about 60 volts. But we got it high enough out (in?) that the control transformer made enough juice to power the control circuitry. It appears that the machine is fixed. Of course until we actually try to use it we will not know for certain. But the TL;DR is: You can run a variac backwards and make higher voltages. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT fun trick running a variac in reverse
Was testing a repair to a 480 volt induction heater today. One of our employees decided to blow the dirt out of it, took the cover off and got a copper tube across an inductor to case ground. It was probably 800 VDC at that spot. Discharged the capacitor. Sounded like a gunshot. Tripped a 125 amp 480 volt breaker at our power service panel. Turning it off at the front switch just turns off the control circuitry. Everything else is hot unless you kill the breaker on the back of the unit. I think the kid is still shaking. In any event, took the power supply to the lab. Used a variac to put 0 to 130 volts across each leg with a clamp on volt meter on it as I tested. Never got past 10 volts and was drawing 3-5 amps. 3 phase bridge rectifier was totally shorted out. Exactly as expected. These things take raw 480 VAC, rectifier, 800 VDC cap and then on to the IGBT transistors that chop it into ac etc. I was hoping it was just the rectifier. So we got the replacement today. Put it in and started testing. No current, all the way up to 130 volts. But the cap was charging. So far looks good. Told my sons to take it back and hook it up to 480. My son Frank said “just reverse your variac and use it to step up”. I initially refused to believe it would work. Then I thought through it a bit and decided that it actually should work. I started with the variac set at 130 volts output. Feeding 120 into the output gave us about 110 on the input (that was connected across one phase of the induction unit). As I turned the variac down the voltage went up. I got to 380 volts before we started smelling that wonderful “Allen Bradley” wafting through the lab and the variac started buzzing pretty bad. I think I got it down to about 60 volts. But we got it high enough out (in?) that the control transformer made enough juice to power the control circuitry. It appears that the machine is fixed. Of course until we actually try to use it we will not know for certain. But the TL;DR is: You can run a variac backwards and make higher voltages. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: New Cambium HQ
Really nice prison... Is it the place Ken is thinking of? Always good to have engineering and admin in the same place. From: Ray Savich via AF Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:45 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Ray Savich Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: New Cambium HQ The move is in progress. We will for sure have videos and we will welcome a visit any time. Ray From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:41 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] New Cambium HQ I was drawing a blank on AT HQ in Hoffman Estates and “Bell Works” until I realized that’s the former “Ameritech Center” building. In other words, new AT, not old AT I think I’ve been in the building once or twice, probably in the late 1990’s when I worked at Westell and the building was new. I was on the DSL standards subcommittee and Tom Starr of Ameritech was the chairperson, so likely I was meeting with him. I remember it as the somewhat weird building with the catwalks. Kind of like a really nice prison. From: AF On Behalf Of Nate Burke Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 1:20 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: [AFMUG] New Cambium HQ I saw an article in the local paper this morning that Cambium is moving their HQ into the Old AT HQ (Bell Works) in Hoffman Estates. It mentioned that this will allow them to have both Corporate and Engineering at the same site. Hope we get some tours of their new space once it's up and running. Excerpt below from https://www.dailyherald.com/20240128/business/a-game-changer-bell-works-chicagoland-in-hoffman-estates-ready-to-add-homes/ (Possibly Paywalled) "wireless infrastructure provider Cambium Networks moving its U.S. headquarters from Rolling Meadows to Bell Works. The Motorola spinoff’s 35,000 square feet currently under renovation was not only the largest new lease of 2023 at Bell Works but takes advantage of a novel opportunity to have its corporate offices and engineering labs on the same property. “Here we’ve married the two,” Zucker said. “They’ve brought both of their uses together. The village modified the zoning here to accommodate that.” The company’s research and development will be conducted in newly equipped space on the first floor, with its offices and conference rooms on the fourth. Cambium Networks Senior Engineer Evan Boyack said there are few facilities that could offer the combination of space. The international company has a desire to stay in Chicago’s Northwest suburbs because it remains the base of the talent pool Motorola attracted there. Amenities such as the Fairgrounds World’s Fair restaurant and bar were another attraction of Bell Works, he added. “Having these amenities helps bring our engineers back to the office,” Boyack said." -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
We do have a fully funded health plan. We make them wait 6 months for eligibility. Has not seemed to be an impediment to hiring. Thanks everyone. I think I will steer clear of published performance based bonuses but just give surprise bonuses now and then. I could give a spiff based on the completion of certain machines but some of the teams have overlap and tracking that program could be difficult. I will just crank up the pay a bit. I am a bit below average for companies of my type but not for employers on average in my area. We are about $19/hr company wide with some making as much as $24. Still hard to run a family and pay a mortgage with that kind of pay. Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com From: Trey Scarborough Sent: Monday, January 29, 2024 9:52 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees I have always found one of the best ways is to provide better benifits/perks. As others have said 401k match is a good one, but if that's not something most your employees would be interested in. Fully paid health insurance can be one, also send them to training or a tradeshow. Even welders like to go to a tradeshow and gawk at all the new equipment... One of the best I found was catered lunches. We would have a day or two a week we would bring in food from a good restaurant or order some good steaks and grill them. It was also good as it got everyone together. Another thing is give them a budget to go and buy whatever tools/equipment/etc that you can write off and let them keep it personally. Works great for labor workers and IT staff. The more mechanical inclined typically went out and buy nice tools and the others typically would get a laptop, or build a gaming rig. On 1/28/24 12:16 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well. Almost no software involved. Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic transmission. This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of hustle. And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and hardware were not bad at all. I am a bit more confident that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio specific. But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay. I do give bonuses. I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll. Only happened once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal. And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to layoff everyone. But I digress. What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going well? I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months. I could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting tight again. Maybe that is totally unfounded. I know when things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him. I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to distribute that evenly? Should everyone get the same amount? And how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is doing? Or should I just give really nice raises this go around? Or both? I guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for us. I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a one way street. You really cannot cut pay. I want employees to prosper and do better personally. I wonder if my fears are justified. I know some of you have worked for large companies at certain points in your life, how did they accomplish this. I know some of you have really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached the whole sharing the wealth thing. Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
I would be a bit surprised if anyone that works on my shop floor would prefer that. We only have 25 employees and they are mostly welders etc. I wonder if any of them even have an IRA. From: Robert Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 7:53 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees Fully fund IRAs? On 1/28/24 5:18 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: Thanks Ken, No stock options. I am slowly giving the company to a couple sons that are putting in the sweat equity. Still not sure about production based bonuses. Should everyone get the same amount? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 1:11 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and Christmas bonuses. Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot. I suspect some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft. My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term. They have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock options. Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos). So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right thing already. If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company performance, I wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use it as an incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible goals (like Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”). And I’d make it fairly short term, like monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families scrimp in hopes of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year. If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution at least for hourly employees. Realizing that with low unemployment, some of them might move elsewhere. The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is likely to have at least 5 good years coming. From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well. Almost no software involved. Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic transmission. This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of hustle. And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and hardware were not bad at all. I am a bit more confident that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio specific. But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay. I do give bonuses. I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll. Only happened once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal. And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to layoff everyone. But I digress. What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going well? I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months. I could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting tight again. Maybe that is totally unfounded. I know when things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him. I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to distribute that evenly? Should everyone get the same amount? And how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is doing? Or should I just give really nice raises this go around? Or both? I guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for us. I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a one way street. You really cannot cut pay. I want employees to prosper and do better personally. I wonder if my fears are justified. I know some of you have worked for large companies at certain points in your life, how did they accomplish this. I know some of you have really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached the whole sharing the wealth thing. Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake
Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
I don’t have sales people. If I did I would certainly make it commission based. Right now I am selling more than can make with zero sales effort. Trying to scale without going nuts with expense and payroll. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 7:27 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees Maybe others will have answers to that question, sounds like tricky territory. Do you have salespeople, and are they already getting performance based pay? That’s the one exception that comes to my mind, but you could argue both sides of that one also. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 7:18 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees Thanks Ken, No stock options. I am slowly giving the company to a couple sons that are putting in the sweat equity. Still not sure about production based bonuses. Should everyone get the same amount? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 1:11 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and Christmas bonuses. Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot. I suspect some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft. My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term. They have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock options. Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos). So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right thing already. If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company performance, I wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use it as an incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible goals (like Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”). And I’d make it fairly short term, like monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families scrimp in hopes of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year. If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution at least for hourly employees. Realizing that with low unemployment, some of them might move elsewhere. The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is likely to have at least 5 good years coming. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well. Almost no software involved. Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic transmission. This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of hustle. And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and hardware were not bad at all. I am a bit more confident that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio specific. But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay. I do give bonuses. I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll. Only happened once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal. And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to layoff everyone. But I digress. What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going well? I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months. I could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting tight again. Maybe that is totally unfounded. I know when things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him. I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to distribute that evenly? Should everyone get the same amount? And how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is doing? Or should I just give really nice raises this go around? Or both? I guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for us. I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a one way street. You really cannot cut pay. I want employees to prosper and do better personally. I wonder
Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees
Thanks Ken, No stock options. I am slowly giving the company to a couple sons that are putting in the sweat equity. Still not sure about production based bonuses. Should everyone get the same amount? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 1:11 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] compensation for employees I worked for big companies in the 80’s and remember profit sharing and Christmas bonuses. Then we had a period of startups with stock options as a huge part of compensation – the idea was you worked 80 hour weeks for modest pay but if the company hit it big your options could be worth a lot. I suspect some people hit the jackpot and a lot more got the shaft. My sense is that employees today are mostly focused on the short term. They have bills to pay, they want to know what income they can count on, they probably don’t want to roll the dice on profit sharing or a bonus or stock options. Also, Millennials and Gen XYZ I talk to seem to view employment as transactional, and they don’t necessarily identify with the company or the owners (thanks to companies like Amazon and owners like Bezos). So while I don’t have any hard facts, my guess is you’re doing the right thing already. If you’re inclined to tie compensation to company performance, I wouldn’t make it a large percentage, and I wouldn’t try to use it as an incentive for people to work insane hours or achieve impossible goals (like Elon Musk’s “extremely hardcore”). And I’d make it fairly short term, like monthly or something, so employees aren’t making their families scrimp in hopes of a windfall at the end of the quarter or year. If you do experience hard times, reduced hours might be a temporary solution at least for hourly employees. Realizing that with low unemployment, some of them might move elsewhere. The good news is that any part of your business tied to fiber projects is likely to have at least 5 good years coming. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2024 12:16 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: [AFMUG] compensation for employees My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well. Almost no software involved. Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic transmission. This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of hustle. And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and hardware were not bad at all. I am a bit more confident that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio specific. But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay. I do give bonuses. I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll. Only happened once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal. And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to layoff everyone. But I digress. What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going well? I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months. I could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting tight again. Maybe that is totally unfounded. I know when things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him. I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to distribute that evenly? Should everyone get the same amount? And how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is doing? Or should I just give really nice raises this go around? Or both? I guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for us. I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a one way street. You really cannot cut pay. I want employees to prosper and do better personally. I wonder if my fears are justified. I know some of you have worked for large companies at certain points in your life, how did they accomplish this. I know some of you have really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached the whole sharing the wealth thing. Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] compensation for employees
My latest pivot a couple of years ago to microtrenching blades, adding grout machines, then microtrenching saw attachments and now to a specialized type of vacuum excavator has gone extremely well. Almost no software involved. Just a little in a motion control PCB in the grout machine to control the hydrostatic transmission. This is by far my most profitable season I have ever had in 50 years of running some kind of hustle. And those years of the stinger and other related antennas and hardware were not bad at all. I am a bit more confident that these new “durable products” have more legs than the antennas that were radio specific. But having been through wax and wane of business, economy and product cycles for many decades, I am always reticent to ratchet up pay. I do give bonuses. I will always live in fear of not meeting payroll. Only happened once about 30 years ago, but that is a bad deal. And actually nobody was unpaid but I had to layoff everyone. But I digress. What would y’all suggest as a way to reward employees when things are going well? I give COLA plus modest merit increases every 6 months. I could give substantial merit increases but that plays into my phobia of things getting tight again. Maybe that is totally unfounded. I know when things started going well for Henry Ford he doubled pay and things got even better for him. I would like to do bonuses based on my bottom line income (I think), but how to distribute that evenly? Should everyone get the same amount? And how to relate that the size of the bonus is tied directly to how well the company is doing? Or should I just give really nice raises this go around? Or both? I guess if things slow down we can always trim staff or let attrition do it for us. I think you all can understand the reluctance to give raises as it is a one way street. You really cannot cut pay. I want employees to prosper and do better personally. I wonder if my fears are justified. I know some of you have worked for large companies at certain points in your life, how did they accomplish this. I know some of you have really prospered with your WISP/ISP, curious how you approached the whole sharing the wealth thing. Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
Could he bond dwm multiples at lower rates? Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com From: Trey Scarborough Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2024 5:00 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Ive done a lot of these 100G 80k links and its not likely dispersion causing your problem. Its more likely the opposite. If you have segments of NZ fiber "Non-zero dispersion-shifted fiber" you can have issues. After looking at your OTDR it looks to be a mix of different fiber types thats how you get the negative loss splices. If it is a mix of NZ and smf28 fiber your probably not going to be able to get it to work. The NZ fiber causes issues with the 1200-1300 signals on those optics. I have had spans of 50k that 80k optics would not work on due to this. I would have them run an OTDR at 1310 and see what it shows you are likely to get a very different looking result. If that's the case there aren't too many good options. Your best is if your switch has 400g ports get some OpenZR 400G optics and use them. Surprisingly that aren't incredibly more expensive than the 100G 80ks. I would have the fiber provider give you a 1310 OTDR and also request fiber type information for the span. We build these things all the time so if you need some help feel free to email me and I can see about finding a solution that will work for you. On 1/24/24 6:40 PM, Zach Underwood wrote: Ok we got the report back from the fiber supplier. This is new to me so anyone can offer insight into it? PDF https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KeIuWHFsiKZHxcmpPiY8PX_-PABl55Sz/view?usp=sharing On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 6:00 PM Daniel Pautz via AF wrote: Dispersion compensation module - https://www.fs.com/products/65783.html From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:53 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels I spent a few minutes searching on the term DCM and came up with “chirped fiber Bragg grating”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_Bragg_grating OK, I’m out of my depth now. From: AF On Behalf Of Daniel Pautz via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:40 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: Daniel Pautz Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Perhaps pick up a used cheap DCM and see if it helps, adjustable preferred if not as close to the fiber distance. Our newest 100G dwdm build (dozen 100G optics) very much needed a DCM on it. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:36 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Gotta think of the Fourier series of the pulse. Yes group velocities or group delay of the whole enchalada. It is all kinda the same thing. They were doing some kind of soliton fiber development. Haven’t heard much for some time about that. No idea how frequency pure/coherent the tx is. I imagine phase coherency is a big deal. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:12 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Looks like different wavelengths have different group velocities, so compensation is possible (but probably not cheap?). Is this because the transmitter doesn’t generate literally a single wavelength? Or is this a WDM issue? Chuck says the pulses get smeared out in time, that sounds like the first one. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:56 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too much dispersion. Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM with SNR issues. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Even if the RX level is good? > rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF wrote: Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss. We have had that on mirrored paths, or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the strands. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber? Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401
Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
Gotta think of the Fourier series of the pulse. Yes group velocities or group delay of the whole enchalada. It is all kinda the same thing. They were doing some kind of soliton fiber development. Haven’t heard much for some time about that. No idea how frequency pure/coherent the tx is. I imagine phase coherency is a big deal. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 4:12 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Looks like different wavelengths have different group velocities, so compensation is possible (but probably not cheap?). Is this because the transmitter doesn’t generate literally a single wavelength? Or is this a WDM issue? Chuck says the pulses get smeared out in time, that sounds like the first one. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 3:56 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too much dispersion. Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM with SNR issues. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Even if the RX level is good? > rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF wrote: Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss. We have had that on mirrored paths, or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the strands. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber? Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com From: Zach Underwood Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We will be looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another site to fiber loop to shorten the footage to under 40km. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners wrote: So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range. 100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion compensation fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end. You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at the max they can do for that specific unit. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood wrote: TX Power 2~6.5dBm I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up. I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for links over 40km. So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km. switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585 On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners wrote: There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range? On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood wrote: Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett wrote: Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Zach Underwood" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM Subject: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista devices hosting
Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
Yeah, the pulses tend to get smeared out in time if there is too much dispersion. Similar to trying to use too high level of QAM with SNR issues. From: Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:26 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Even if the RX level is good? > rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 1:22 PM Daniel Pautz via AF wrote: Yeah makes me think the two paths have different loss. We have had that on mirrored paths, or even single paths with crappy splices on one of the strands. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 11:12 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber? Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com From: Zach Underwood Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We will be looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another site to fiber loop to shorten the footage to under 40km. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners wrote: So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range. 100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion compensation fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end. You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at the max they can do for that specific unit. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood wrote: TX Power 2~6.5dBm I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up. I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for links over 40km. So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km. switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585 On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners wrote: There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range? On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood wrote: Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett wrote: Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Zach Underwood" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM Subject: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista devices hosting the optics is the same. Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size is small due to the optices costing $4k each -- Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afm
Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels
Did anyone do dispersion testing on the fiber? Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 435-830-4306 cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench-blades.com www.terabitnetworks.com From: Zach Underwood Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2024 12:07 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels tired again this morning and still no link. rx was within 0.3dBm on all 4 lanes on both sides. We got 10gb 80km to link up. This will do for now. We will be looking at getting 40gb 80km single lane optics or adding another site to fiber loop to shorten the footage to under 40km. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Colin Stanners wrote: So both of those SFPs are within the tx power range. 100G may not work on a link that long unless you have dispersion compensation fiber on the path or in a huge loop in a box style at one end. You likely cannot change tx power levels on those SFPs, they will run at the max they can do for that specific unit. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:46 a.m. Zach Underwood wrote: TX Power 2~6.5dBm I am struggling to get this 100gb link up. In the field this link is quoted at 31 miles. The rx levels are -22 and -20 on both sides but I can't get it to link. I take the same optics to the lab and add 20dbm of attenuator to get almost the same rx levels as the field and it will link up. I have added error-correction encoding reed-solomon per the user guide for links over 40km. So far I have not found a way to change the TX levels in arista, the options are in the CLI but they dont seem to change the outcome. For me this is the first time dealing with 80km optics or 100gb optics over 10km. switch is Arista DCS-7060SX2-48YC6-R https://resource.fs.com/mall/doc/20230531114903y4ljxw.pdf https://www.fs.com/products/115818.html?attribute=29032=3462585 On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 8:35 AM Colin Stanners wrote: There should be. What does their datasheey indicate for tx power range? On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 7:31 a.m. Zach Underwood wrote: Yep labels identical but there is a difference in default power levels. On Wed, Jan 24, 2024, 8:13 AM Mike Hammett wrote: Oh, meaning the variance between the two, otherwise identical models? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -- From: "Zach Underwood" To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2024 12:51:39 PM Subject: [AFMUG] optical TX power levels I got 2x 100gb 80km optics from FS that run difficult default TX power levels one is 3.81dBm and the other 2.63dBm, the config on the arista devices hosting the optics is the same. Has anyone seen much difference between optic like this? My sample size is small due to the optices costing $4k each -- Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA) My website advance-networking.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] Phoenix
Thanks. I forwarded it. Sent from my iPhone > On Jan 14, 2024, at 5:04 PM, Jesse Dupont > wrote: > > Trepic Wireless on the Eastern and Southeastern part. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jan 14, 2024, at 3:34 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: >> >> >> Jaime is looking for WISPS in Phoenix. >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] Phoenix
Jaime is looking for WISPS in Phoenix. Sent from my iPhone -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
[AFMUG] OT plus codes
Just learned about plus codes as a replacement for geocodes. They are using them to give addresses to Navajo dwellings. Pretty clever idea to condense a geocode to 6 alpha numeric chars. (10 if there is no nearby community name) Based on a base 20 numbering scheme. I wonder if this is better than zip _4? It is shorter by 3 characters. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse
The ridge was on the aerial drop wire. It went to the right hand binding post on the protector. The red wire of the station wire also went on the right and they were the “Ring” side of the line or hot side with –48 volts. You could actually make a call by connecting to the ring and ground but it would be very noisy. From: Brough Turner - netBlazr Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 8:17 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse "Ring, Ridge, Red, Right" was the equivalence in the days when Telephone Operator Cord Boards had tip/ring/sleeve connectors on the cords. So Ridge = Red. Thanks Brough From: AF on behalf of Robert Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 10:32 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse But what about Low voltage cable... Is smooth hot or cold or ridged hot or cold? So many choices... LOL.. On 1/8/24 9:39 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote: > I concur with the wire color problem. > > * My current employer pays big bucks to a low voltage guy who wires up our > sites. His work is absolutely beautiful. It's like friggin artwork. > He uses black for return (+) and green for ground. Then since most of our > equipment has dual power supplies he uses red and blue for the "A" hot and > "B" hot. I assume his employer trained him that way for a reason and that's > probably common. > > * I was taught in childhood that red is positive, so that's what I have > always done. I'm not philosophically opposed to the idea that red is "hot", > but that's just now how I learned it. > > * > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fztlabels.com%2Fblogs%2Fnews%2Fdc-power-circuit-wiring-color-codes=05%7C02%7Cbrough%40netblazr.com%7C6c42b49a25dd404e07d908dc1099eb1a%7C06a97f73bf7b45a688f6a3a7bc5f56c7%7C0%7C0%7C638403500474986051%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=NwfihmgJY1P%2FJX8FZ9QQK%2Fbx95TQIV3AqoM5Wowvai0%3D=0 > This site advises that for 2-wire DC with positive ground is white for > positive and black for negative. Someone apparently thinks that's the right > way. The same site points out that the only color called out specifically > in the NEC is green or green/yellow for ground. Everything else is just the > convention people landed on. > > Out in the wild you might see anything so there is and will always be a > multi-meter in my everyday toolkit. > > -Adam > > > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2024 12:01 PM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse > > What I can never decide on is wire colors. Especially when using red/black > zipcord or tray cable. People expect red to be +, but they also expect > black to be ground (except electricians who expect black to be hot and white > to be neutral and green or green/yellow to be ground). And how to > differentiate battery wiring from load wiring. I have not found an ideal > solution other than labels. > > -Original Message- > From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince > Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 10:45 AM > To: af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse > > Yes. -48VDC means the negative side is hot, and the positive side is ground > (or return). > > You can mix +48VDC and -48VDC if you know what you're doing. It helps a > bunch if the equipment floats logic ground. You need to check to see if your > equipment isolates logic from the supply voltage. > > Yes. Batteries can be grounded either way. They don't care. > > bp > > > On 1/8/2024 8:25 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote: >> I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it. >> >> -48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct? >> >> It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC >> >> There is no such thing as a -48V battery. A battery is a battery, > correct? >> How about the ICT Platinum power supplies. They show as 48VDC, can >> they > be used on -48VDC equipment? >> I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a >> piece of > equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC. >> >> -- >> >> Thanks, >>Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> >> Myakka Communications >> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myakka.com%2F=05%7C02%7Cbrough%40netblazr.com%7C6c42b49a25dd404e07d908dc1099eb1a%7C06a97f73bf7b45a688f6a3a7bc5f56c7%7C0%7C0%7C638403500474986051%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=FlUnCHHmZ9Qohes%2BwvKB9GMSitPQuiBOFVDDBFJOdNw%3D=0 >> >> > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com >
Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse
480 is 277 to ground/neutral and you can find lots of 277 stuff. Even 277-120 control transformers are pretty common. I would not be surprised to see Mean Wells and Tracos having models that will take up to 277. Best Regards, Chuck McCown McCown Technology Corporation 8401 N Commerce Dr Lake Point, Utah 84074 801-250-9503 Office 435-830-4306 Cell www.mccowntech.com www.microtrench.pro www.terabitnetworks.com From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 3:06 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse We run into this at farms and grain elevators that often have 240 or 480 3-phase. We are on the grain leg at one farm where there is only the 3 legs no neutral. We checked with Phoenix Contact and the power supply we used can accept L1 and L2 on the terminals labeled L and N (actually a Trio DC UPS, this is an old old site). Not sure how common this is, or if our Mean Wells and Tracos would get fried if we tried that. I wish they wouldn’t label one side N if it doesn’t actually have to be the neutral. Most of these sites have an indoor transformer for their 120V lighting and convenience outlets. From: AF On Behalf Of Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 3:55 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse Another option, 208 Y but 32 volt boost transformers on devices that need 240. Have done that before too. I always consider boost and buck a slick trick. From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:43 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse You a few choices for 3 phase mixed with 120 single phase. Stinger center tapped winding on a Delta lets you have single phase 120/240 between two legs of the delta. But this also means you have 240 three phase all the way around where many 3 phase loads are nominally spec’d at 208. Probably not a problem but could be for some loads. You also have one leg that is 208 to ground that you might accidentally connect to a 120 device. That is the high leg. Another choice is a 208 Y configuration. Each leg is 120 to ground but two of those 120 legs are 208 across them instead of 240. While many 240 loads will be OK with 208 some will not. All your 208 3 phase loads will be happy. The third choice is a 208 to 240 center tapped transformer. Then your 208 can stay 208 and you can still get true 120/240. The only downside other than the extra expense is the imbalance it puts on the 3 phase line. My shop is full of transformers. 480 to 208. 480 to 240 single phase. Etc. Or you could have the power company give you 3 phase and single phase service without all of this other baloney. From: Mark Radabaugh Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:18 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse On Jan 8, 2024, at 1:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: What I always have a hard time wrapping my head around is 240/120/208 wild leg delta. I don’t think that one is hard to understand, other then the ‘why the hell did someone center tap a delta let anyway?Ok, I have designed systems that way but eventually somebody will blow something up with it given enough time. (it’s useful when you need small quantities of single phase power in an otherwise 3 phase system) Mark -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse
Another option, 208 Y but 32 volt boost transformers on devices that need 240. Have done that before too. I always consider boost and buck a slick trick. From: Chuck McCown via AF Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:43 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Cc: ch...@go-mtc.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse You a few choices for 3 phase mixed with 120 single phase. Stinger center tapped winding on a Delta lets you have single phase 120/240 between two legs of the delta. But this also means you have 240 three phase all the way around where many 3 phase loads are nominally spec’d at 208. Probably not a problem but could be for some loads. You also have one leg that is 208 to ground that you might accidentally connect to a 120 device. That is the high leg. Another choice is a 208 Y configuration. Each leg is 120 to ground but two of those 120 legs are 208 across them instead of 240. While many 240 loads will be OK with 208 some will not. All your 208 3 phase loads will be happy. The third choice is a 208 to 240 center tapped transformer. Then your 208 can stay 208 and you can still get true 120/240. The only downside other than the extra expense is the imbalance it puts on the 3 phase line. My shop is full of transformers. 480 to 208. 480 to 240 single phase. Etc. Or you could have the power company give you 3 phase and single phase service without all of this other baloney. From: Mark Radabaugh Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:18 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse On Jan 8, 2024, at 1:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: What I always have a hard time wrapping my head around is 240/120/208 wild leg delta. I don’t think that one is hard to understand, other then the ‘why the hell did someone center tap a delta let anyway?Ok, I have designed systems that way but eventually somebody will blow something up with it given enough time. (it’s useful when you need small quantities of single phase power in an otherwise 3 phase system) Mark -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse
You a few choices for 3 phase mixed with 120 single phase. Stinger center tapped winding on a Delta lets you have single phase 120/240 between two legs of the delta. But this also means you have 240 three phase all the way around where many 3 phase loads are nominally spec’d at 208. Probably not a problem but could be for some loads. You also have one leg that is 208 to ground that you might accidentally connect to a 120 device. That is the high leg. Another choice is a 208 Y configuration. Each leg is 120 to ground but two of those 120 legs are 208 across them instead of 240. While many 240 loads will be OK with 208 some will not. All your 208 3 phase loads will be happy. The third choice is a 208 to 240 center tapped transformer. Then your 208 can stay 208 and you can still get true 120/240. The only downside other than the extra expense is the imbalance it puts on the 3 phase line. My shop is full of transformers. 480 to 208. 480 to 240 single phase. Etc. Or you could have the power company give you 3 phase and single phase service without all of this other baloney. From: Mark Radabaugh Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 2:18 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse On Jan 8, 2024, at 1:54 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: What I always have a hard time wrapping my head around is 240/120/208 wild leg delta. I don’t think that one is hard to understand, other then the ‘why the hell did someone center tap a delta let anyway?Ok, I have designed systems that way but eventually somebody will blow something up with it given enough time. (it’s useful when you need small quantities of single phase power in an otherwise 3 phase system) Mark -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse
Have to have a chalk board to show the wild leg thing. I got my 3 phase down pretty cold now. Had an electrician wire up a receptacle to the wild leg once. Blew up a transformer. That was my first exposure to a wild leg. From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 11:54 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse I would think many of us have both 24V and 48V in the same rack or cabinet. We started out 24V, then mixed, now able to do most sites all 48V, but lots of mixed 24 and 48 out there. I think of -48 as just another voltage to keep straight. If I power a radio or router with 48-56 volts that is intended for 24-30V, bad things will happen. Not sure what there is about polarity that drives people crazy. What I always have a hard time wrapping my head around is 240/120/208 wild leg delta. From: AF On Behalf Of castarritt Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 12:35 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse The ICT shelves come in both +48v and -48v flavors. Usually the positive version has a P on the end of the model. An ICT-2U4 would be negative, and an ICT-2U4P is positive. You can mix both -48 and +48 loads at one site, but you need an isolated DC-DC converter such as a Meanwell RSD-500C-48. On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 10:26 AM Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote: I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it. -48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct? It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC There is no such thing as a -48V battery. A battery is a battery, correct? How about the ICT Platinum power supplies. They show as 48VDC, can they be used on -48VDC equipment? I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC. -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse
I would be more than happy with that scheme. Look up at a fuse or CB panel, see red and blue and you immediately know what you are working with. -Original Message- From: dmmoff...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 10:39 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse I concur with the wire color problem. * My current employer pays big bucks to a low voltage guy who wires up our sites. His work is absolutely beautiful. It's like friggin artwork. He uses black for return (+) and green for ground. Then since most of our equipment has dual power supplies he uses red and blue for the "A" hot and "B" hot. I assume his employer trained him that way for a reason and that's probably common. * I was taught in childhood that red is positive, so that's what I have always done. I'm not philosophically opposed to the idea that red is "hot", but that's just now how I learned it. * https://ztlabels.com/blogs/news/dc-power-circuit-wiring-color-codes This site advises that for 2-wire DC with positive ground is white for positive and black for negative. Someone apparently thinks that's the right way. The same site points out that the only color called out specifically in the NEC is green or green/yellow for ground. Everything else is just the convention people landed on. Out in the wild you might see anything so there is and will always be a multi-meter in my everyday toolkit. -Adam -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof Sent: Monday, January 08, 2024 12:01 PM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse What I can never decide on is wire colors. Especially when using red/black zipcord or tray cable. People expect red to be +, but they also expect black to be ground (except electricians who expect black to be hot and white to be neutral and green or green/yellow to be ground). And how to differentiate battery wiring from load wiring. I have not found an ideal solution other than labels. -Original Message- From: AF On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Monday, January 8, 2024 10:45 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] -48V kicking the dead horse Yes. -48VDC means the negative side is hot, and the positive side is ground (or return). You can mix +48VDC and -48VDC if you know what you're doing. It helps a bunch if the equipment floats logic ground. You need to check to see if your equipment isolates logic from the supply voltage. Yes. Batteries can be grounded either way. They don't care. bp On 1/8/2024 8:25 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote: I know we have been though this many times and I thought I understood it. -48VDC is the Negative side being HOT, correct? It is BAD to try to mix -48VDC and 48VDC There is no such thing as a -48V battery. A battery is a battery, correct? How about the ICT Platinum power supplies. They show as 48VDC, can they be used on -48VDC equipment? I remember Check saying something about a way to test to see if a piece of equipment that is Neg 48VDC is truly grounded as Neg 48VDC. -- Thanks, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Communications www.Myakka.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
