Re: [AFMUG] DWDM/CWDM Magic

[Darin Steffl]

For those of you who have dark fiber access, what kind of costs do you have?

I'm thinking more of the cost to access these strands? IRU costs, lease,
swaps with other providers, etc?

I want some sort of ballpark costs to know what's reasonable when we start
looking at this over wavelengths for shorter paths.

On Thu, May 2, 2024, 2:50 PM Chris Fabien  wrote:

> Mark, we do exactly this on a segment where we have leased 2 strands
> of dark fiber on a 30mile path. The ends of the run have 8-ch DWDM
> Muxes and we have two spots along the run where we have an OADM in a
> splice case to drop out a wavelength. At those points, we set a
> handhole next to the carrier's handhole, and they looped the 2 strands
> onto a 12F jumper into our case, so our OADM is in our case, in our
> handhole. Just be sure your optical margins are planned for any
> potential add/drop points because each does have some loss.
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF
>  wrote:
> >
> > We may have the opportunity to grab 2 strands of dark fiber.  These will
> allow us to build a loop between two points on our network.  We have been
> told we can also break into this fiber within our loop.  I'm guessing when
> we break into this fiber they will just extend the dark fiber into our
> handhole and we will be responsible to figure out what we do once we cut
> into that fiber.
> >
> > I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to do this passively so we
> don't have to depend on having our loop run though a customers location.  I
> was thinking of CWDM.  I can setup a CWDM/DWDM at our site and send
> multiple wave lengths down the fiber.  Is there a way for me to break out
> just one wavelength at a hand hole passively?
> >
> > Let's say I have a North/South run of 2 strands going though a hand hole
> and I what to break out 1270nm for a customer.  Is there away for me in the
> hand hole, passively, to peel off just 1270nm.  Put something like a 1x2
> splitter in on N1, N2, S1, S2 and send those 4 fibers into the customer
> site.  Then install a couple of 1270nm optics in a switch to preserve the
> loop for that one customer.
> >
> > Do the optics do all the magic or are there some type of filters in the
> DWDM/CWDM modules?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Thanks,
> >  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> >
> > Myakka Communications
> > www.Myakka.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Blast = Blast

[Darin Steffl]

You're serious? Our customers receive at least 2 emails from us every
month. An invoice and a receipt. Plus they'll see an electronic payment on
their card or bank account.

Not sure why someone wouldn't know who their provider is. Same with
cellphone, power, gas, other utilities, etc.


On Sat, Sep 23, 2023, 3:04 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> >Most people should know who their provider is.
>
> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
> On Sat, Sep 23, 2023 at 10:19 AM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Why would you say "I don't know"?
>>
>> Tell them to call their ISP. You don't know who it is by name but you can
>> at least tell them to look it up. Most people should know who their
>> provider is. I'm also surprised their router doesn't have a sticker on it
>> with the provider logo and contact info.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> I've had 3 people calls us now (Blastcomm), with the Calix 'Gigaspire
>>> blast' router, because we're blast, and it says blast on the router, so
>>> why can't we help them.  They're all from South Carolina so far.
>>>
>>> "I'm sorry, I can't help you, I'm in Chicago"
>>>
>>> "Then who do I call?  My WIFI doesn't work, and it says Blast on the
>>> router."
>>>
>>> "Who do you pay?"
>>>
>>> "I don't know"
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Blast = Blast

[Darin Steffl]

Why would you say "I don't know"?

Tell them to call their ISP. You don't know who it is by name but you can
at least tell them to look it up. Most people should know who their
provider is. I'm also surprised their router doesn't have a sticker on it
with the provider logo and contact info.

On Fri, Sep 22, 2023, 2:58 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I've had 3 people calls us now (Blastcomm), with the Calix 'Gigaspire
> blast' router, because we're blast, and it says blast on the router, so
> why can't we help them.  They're all from South Carolina so far.
>
> "I'm sorry, I can't help you, I'm in Chicago"
>
> "Then who do I call?  My WIFI doesn't work, and it says Blast on the
> router."
>
> "Who do you pay?"
>
> "I don't know"
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] wispa

[Darin Steffl]

Of course not.

On Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:34 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I wonder if wispa sanctions this spam?
>
> *From:* Alicia Paul
> *Sent:* Friday, July 14, 2023 8:59 AM
> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Just wanted to do a quick follow-up on my below email.
>
>
>
> Please review my below email and let me know your interest.
>
>
>
> May I send quote/pricing details for decision-making?
>
>
>
> Looking forward to hearing from you.
> Alicia
> --
>
> *From:* Alicia Paul
> *Sent: *Thursdy, July 13, 2023, 10:53 AM
> *To:* sa...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Go-Mtc
>
>
> Hi,
>
> We are happy to let you know that the pre-registered attendance list for
> the “WISPAPALOOZA 2023” is now available to buy at the best possible price.
>
> Attendees: WISP Industry Professionals | Industry Experts |
> Decision-Makers in the ISP Industry | Service Providers | Leading Suppliers
> in the Fixed Wireless Internet Industry and many more…
>
> Please let me know your views, so that I can share the counts and pricing
> details.
>
> I look forward to your response.
>
> Regards,
> Alicia Paul | Event Database Coordinator.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Short Term Employee

[Darin Steffl]

You're not the a**hole.

Sounds like he thinks he's God's gift to the world. If he's not willing to
learn a better way to do something, he's not an asset to the company.

Especially if someone shows you a better way of doing something, and you
ignore it and make excuses why it won't work.

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 5:51 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> If you have to tell people about your exceptionalism, rather than have it
> be noticed, well that speaks volumes. Sounds like a legend in his own mind.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> via AF
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 8, 2023 3:48 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Short Term Employee
>
>
>
> I hired a guy to be a production manager over our grout mixing machine
> product.
>
> He came with a pedigree of doing this at other places.  I didn’t check him
> out, just trusted the resume.
>
>
>
> He did have interesting ideas but soon it became evident:
>
> He liked to sit and talk –alot.
>
> He did not want to start helping cleaning up the bill of materials
> (primary job responsibility). (did absolutely nothing along those lines)
>
>
>
> He wanted us to farm things out to his buddies (like have fastenal kit the
> nuts and bolts, have this other company make your sheet metal for you).
>
>
>
> OK, was trying to absorb ideas and suggestions.  After all he was over
> building all the production equipment at the local Purple Mattress factory
> (or so he said).
>
>
>
> I expected him to help task employees in his department, but soon when
> asked where they were and what were they doing, he had no idea.
>
> I gave them a task to modify a mounting fixture by cutting it and
> inserting 10” of steel tubing.  Rather than have them do what I asked, he
> took new steel and made one from scratch.
>
> So he wasted the steel, his time and he used too thin of material.  Took
> two hours.
>
>
>
> I told him you could make the modification in 10 minutes, he argued that
> point.
>
> So I took a stand, cut it, extended it, using a stopwatch.  3 minutes 43
> seconds
>
>
>
> When I complained about it, he said that my fixtures were too weak and
> they were going to kill someone.  I demoed one with about 10X load not
> failing.
>
> Then he started complaining about other things, deflecting that he did not
> do what I asked and did something else wasteful and substandard.
>
> Interspersed with my request was not clear and he didn’t understand what I
> wanted...
>
>
>
> He said my repair to a air compressor was unsafe.
>
> He said he got arc flash in his eye from a distance of about 60 feet, etc
> etc.  Had to buy stuff to build safe welding stalls, etc etc.
>
>
>
> So I  made a casual comment to my son (who is taking over) yesterday: “you
> know, when a guy like this leaves a company whether fired or not, they
> sometimes call OSHA just to cause problems”
>
> Then I actually listened to my own words and agreed with myself.
>
>
>
> Late in the day this problem employee said to me: “I guess I am going to
> have to ignore my own exceptionalism to be able work here”.
>
>
>
> That bugged me the longer I thought about it.  I fired him via email about
> an hour after he left...  Made it one full week and a couple days the prior
> week.
>
> He can bless someone else with his exceptionalism.
>
>
>
> AITA?
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Darin Steffl]

Evan and others,

You guys really are delusional if you don't see what the Republicans are
doing to strip away rights. At least call them out if you're going to vote
their way.

Everything I shared were statements of fact easily verified with a Google
search with reputable sources.

It's sad that I can share facts and then some want to shut down the
conversation. Is that because you don't want to be wrong or don't think
you're associated with people who hold more extreme views than you?

I'm asking you not to be complicit in the hate that's in the republican
party. Speak out and tell your representatives to stop attacking people. Be
kind and empathetic.

Evan, why are you worried about me for calling out hateful people? I'm
worried for you if you think that's wrong for me to do. You should be
against all the attacks on human rights too. I believe you and your wife,
Sandra, to be good people. But there are some on the right who would tell
your wife to go back to her country because they're xenophobic and racist.
Wouldn't that bother you if someone said that to your wife?

Call out the bad that any party partakes in. During the Floyd riots, I
didn't agree with any violence or destruction of property and I'm in full
support of people being arrested who committed crimes. Same with the people
on January 6. But why does the right think January 6 was a peaceful tour
and no one should be arrested? It's hypocritical.

Same with law enforcement. We shouldn't support any profession
unconditionally. That's dangerous. I support good cops but think we should
hold bad ones accountable. This is all common sense stuff but the right
thinks all cops are good which is false. There's bad people in every
profession so let's weed them out. I have some sick friends and family that
think the murder of George Floyd was justified, even after watching the
full video of him being suffocated!! Sick people with sick minds.

The rest of the world watches our country with disgust that half the people
hate themselves and their country so much that they continue to vote
republican. The new republican party is far more different and extreme than
the old one, which was somewhat reasonable and bipartisan.

There is no question that democrats are better for all people in terms of
human rights, equality, and protections against employers and corporations.
They pass more bills to protect people, the environment, and the world than
the right. That does NOT mean the party is perfect and that there aren't
shady politicians on both sides. It all comes back to calling out the bad
things either party tries to do so we end up in the middle.

Being in the middle, centrist, should not be an extreme view. The facts and
opinions I shared are centrist views so if you think I'm crazy or you're
offended, it's likely that your views are more extreme than you think. I
could list more than enough Democrat ideas I don't agree with and just as
many fiscal republican ideas I do agree with.

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 12:03 PM Robert  wrote:

> What we have here is a failure to communicate.   I may sound like a c
> theorist but what we have is two oligarchical factions that are fighting
> for control of an electoral mass of minds and using all the propaganda
> tools to manage that.   The Monster money from both "factions" (because
> they aren't really one side so much or the other) is just used to manage
> the political resources.  It's all about maintaining their wealth.
> Evidence of this is overwhelming when you look at the tax votes.  The dems
> made noise about the reduction in wealth taxes but didn't _actually_ do
> anything about it.  And Bidens announcements about tax the rich are
> posturing, not a snowballs chance in hell of going anywhere..  Right side
> is about keeping the worker bees slaving away with promises of easier ways
> to wealth and fear mongering, Left is about keeping the worker bees hoping
> for better care and fear mongering...
>
> On 3/25/23 9:42 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> nail on the head
>
> On Sat, Mar 25, 2023 at 11:38 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> The problem is not left vs. right, it's authortarianism vs. liberty.
>>
>> Authoritarian left and authoritarian right are equally bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrot

Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Darin Steffl]

So Mike,

You're saying the far right is better with your "no" response?

The far right includes nazis, racists, homophobes who all want to use
violence to kill jews, people of color, gay and trans people, liberals, and
more.

I don't know how you can seriously sit here and say that's better than the
non-violent things the far left wants to do. Antifa isn't even real so
don't bring in fake news. What's real are the people who stormed the
Capitol, proud boys, and lots of violent people who came out of the
woodwork after trump was elected.

I'm still in the middle overall but I will always vote for human rights and
protections before I vote to benefit myself fiscally. I'm not a single
issue voter so I don't only vote on tax issues. I vote for people who
protect people and that's overwhelmingly democrats. Moderate ones are my
choice.

I've never voted for Bernie but he's still a good guy who cares. Biden
wasn't my choice but he's way better than trump. I wanted Amy Klobuchar or
Pete Buttigieg personally. I think Pete will be president sometime in the
next 3 elections.

Oh, the other thing that came of trump are some extremists in congress
being elected in 2022. They were a result of trump crying the 2020 election
was stolen and he riled up the base to give him money, stealing from his
supporters. And the most crazy ones ran and won in some cases. So now
there's some nut jobs in congress, more than the old ones who won't retire.

Then more far right supporters started infiltrating school boards and city
councils to white wash history. They want to ban anything that teaches real
history because they don't want their kids to know about slavery and
racism, native Americans. They want to teach kids that white man discovered
America first lol.

And now they're trying to ban books in schools and public libraries that
they don't like. Books that show a kid having two moms or dads for example.
They don't wany any pride flags, pins, or stickers anywhere in school
because they somehow think that will make a kid gay. They act like you
aren't born straight, gay, bi and that it's actually a choice ha.

And don't get me started on them trying force their religious beliefs on
everyone else. And now their target is trans people and drag queens to
"protect the kids" while they take their kid to Hooters, or worse, church
where there's an infinitely higher chance of being sexually assaulted by a
pastor, staff, or volunteer. There isn't a single case of a drag queen
being charged with SA but there's thousands of church people that have been
charged and tens of thousands never charged because it's swept under the
rug.

The right is actively stripping away rights of Americans and getting away
with it in many red states. Abortion too. Way to control women you sick
republican men!

Over 385 anti-lgbt bills have been proposed at the state level. And who
proposed them? All Republicans. You can't say with a straight face that
they care about anyone. There's no empathy. Just hate and fear of those
different from them. I've watched fox and it's nothing but fear mongering
to rile up their base and keep they eyeballs glued to their channel. They
scare their viewers everyday and it's always a "war on something" with them.

While I agree with some fiscal ideas Republicans have, they will never get
my vote as long as they hate America and it's people. Gen Z will completely
annihilate their party and they're likely going to lose every election
going forward if they don't pivot immediately. They'll only win state and
local elections in rural areas where there's a bunch of red voters who
continue to vote against themselves.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-08/2023-is-already-a-record-year-for-anti-lgbtq-bills-in-the-us?leadSource=uverify%20wall

On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 9:32 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I wish AFMUG would stop going political. It really serves no purpose.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Adam Moffett" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" , "Darin
> Steffl" 
> *Sent: *Friday, March 24, 2023 5:18:36 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> Why are we goin

Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Darin Steffl]

The extreme left is still better than the extreme right.

I don't agree with either sides' extremes but if I had to pick one side,
everyone being taken care of, like socialism, I'd pick that over the
extreme right who wants to murder anyone different than them. Like far
right pastors and supporters who call for violence and murder of gay
people, people of color, and liberals. I can find thousands of posts and
video from Republicans calling for sick things but very few liberals saying
the same things.

I don't see far left people calling for violence and murder of people they
disagree with.

So while there are two sides, one side is better than the other, as in less
violent and extreme.

I'd take free college for all, free Healthcare, and more from the extreme
left over the extreme right who wants to ban books, kill people they
disagree with, try to overturn elections, cheat, lie, steal, etc. Again,
the left is the better choice when it comes to empathy and taking care of
people.

While an average republican might not agree with the far right, their
silence is the same as being complicit in their sick beliefs.

At least an average Democrat calls out the far left people like I do. I
don't agree in wiping out all student loans, for example. And I've
contacted democrats I've voted for to voice my opinions.

I don't see Republicans calling out far right politicians who are spewing
hate everyday. I wish they would but since they aren't, I assume they agree
with the hate speech and calls for violence.

The right is far sicker than the left in every regard. Donald being elected
over Hillary will go down in history as one of the worst political events
in our country. We would be a much nicer and stable country if Hillary won.
The racists, bigots, and violent people would mostly be hiding still but
Donald gave them permission to act out their hate when he was elected. It's
very sad.

People who still support Donald are bullies and hate America at this point.

On Fri, Mar 24, 2023, 4:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Ouchie!
> You called me the C word...
>
>
> *From:* Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 3:32 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> exactly this...  What I have learned is there is such a thing as a good
> cult, which is what I consider the Mormon church to be.  They have a few
> extreme points of view but on the whole they treat everyone ( now including
> other races ) reasonably...   And they care about kids and back it up.
>
> On 3/24/23 2:12 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I loved what the Gov of Utah told a bunch of school kids yesterday.
>
> “Republicans are wrong about Democrats and Democrats are wrong about
> Republicans. Why? Here’s why — because, what we’re doing now is we’re only
> listening to the most extreme voices in those parties. So Republicans are
> only listening to the craziest Democrats and assuming that all Democrats
> are like that. Democrats are only listening to the craziest Republicans and
> assuming all Republicans are like that. When the difference between the
> average Democrat and the average Republican, really isn’t that big.”
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, March 24, 2023 12:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> There's no meaningful difference between authoritarian left and
> authoritarian right, which are what catch the most attention.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Darin Steffl" mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:40:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] It has begun
>
> To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right
> doesn't seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little
> empathy from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all
> people in the information it provides.
>
> Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
> care about all people, even if I don't l

Re: [AFMUG] It has begun

[Darin Steffl]

To be fair, anything left leaning is better for humanity. The right doesn't
seem to care about anyone different than them. There's very little empathy
from the right so if AI is here, it's best that it cares about all people
in the information it provides.

Don't bite my head off. I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I
care about all people, even if I don't like them.

On Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 6:25 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/23/openai-connects-chatgpt-to-the-internet/
>
>
> I have to admit, Ive been using the shit out of chatgpt, from writing
> configs, to search engine replacement that actually answers questions, and
> just general fuckery to see what I can get it to do. It wont kill engineers
> or turn off exhaust systems in the building if you were curious. It does
> have a massive left leaning political bias.
>
> But some of the stuff it couldnt do because it wasnt connected to the
> internet, so now ill be back at it. I hope i can get it to do some wargames
> stuff.
>
> ...
>
> would you like to play a game
>
> Sure, I would love to play a game with you! What game would you like to
> play?
> [image: Steve Jones]
> global thermo nuclear warfare
>
> I'm sorry, but I cannot play a game of global thermonuclear warfare with
> you as it is not a real game, but rather a fictional concept popularized by
> the 1983 film "WarGames." Additionally, it is not appropriate to simulate a
> scenario involving nuclear weapons as it could be potentially harmful and
> insensitive to those affected by nuclear weapons in the past. Is there
> another game you would like to play instead?''
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

 Jones wrote:
>>>
>>> telnet is fancy expensive equipment needed to spoof email? Ive never
>>> paid for telnet
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 10:48 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You see, that's exactly where we part ways.  Engulf and Devour was the
>>>> villain corporation in the Silent Movie by Mel Brooks.  Every time I saw
>>>> that movie, I couldn't help but think of Microsoft and Google slicing up
>>>> the planet for themselves.  Gives me diarrhea just thinking about those two
>>>> companies.
>>>>
>>>> You have to have some pretty fancy expensive equipment just to spoof
>>>> email, so why bother?  It's not the little folk who are doing the
>>>> spoofing.  So when they get all us little folk passing on all our secrets
>>>> of our little lives.  Then the spoofers will start using fake SPF/DKIM and
>>>> then we're right back to as much or more SPAM as ever.  Problem will be
>>>> worse than ever.
>>>> On 3/11/23 18:07, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I was curious so found that Gmail started requiring emails sent to
>>>> personal Gmail to have SPF or DKIM enabled or emails would be rejected or
>>>> sent to spam. Good for them to drag the bad email hosts along for the ride
>>>> in preventing spam.
>>>>
>>>> These prevention measures are ridiculously easy to implement so I don't
>>>> have any patience for email hosts who don't set them up. If you can't
>>>> handle simple tasks, outsource things to the big boys.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://support.google.com/a/answer/174124?hl=en#:~:text=Important%3A%20Starting%20November%202022%2C%20new,to%20verify%20they're%20authenticated
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 7:33 PM Matt Hopkins 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Do you use any Microsoft products? If you use Windows and care about
>>>>> data security then you've already failed. I find Microsoft the most
>>>>> deplorable, but I'm only one guy. I have to pick my battles. I refuse to
>>>>> use Microsoft (anything) but we use Gmail at work and it's more or less
>>>>> flawless. We have had some people report they can't reach us but the
>>>>> resolution is always what has already been mentioned here. Google made
>>>>> DKIM/SPF mandatory I want to say just a few months ago but many of the
>>>>> smaller mail providers do not have it set up yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 4:49 PM Darin Steffl 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the links you shared aren't of Google being hacked, but
>>>>>> people being scammed/phished. Tricking a user into sharing their login 
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> means the user was scammed, not that google was hacked. ONE link you 
>>>>>> shared
>>>>>> says less than 24 gmails in Iran were hacked somehow. None of your links
>>>>>> share that google has had a massive data breach at any time. That's not 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> say it can't/won't happen but there's been no big hacks at Google as far 
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> I can remember.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I stand by my claim that you're being paranoid. I promise you that
>>>>>> mail.com or hosting your own email is far less secure and more
>>>>>> easily hacked than Google is. Do you have thousands of engineers working 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> keep your data secure? That answer is NO. I am not delusional enough to
>>>>>> think that hosting my own Linux server for email will be more secure than
>>>>>> Google. There's no way I can outsmart hackers, keep updated on hourly or
>>>>>> daily updates and patches, etc. Nor do I want to do that when I can
>>>>>> outsource to a company that does it much better than I do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't host a single server for our WISP in 11 years in business and
>>>>>> I won't be starting today. The cloud is the future and keeps me hands off
>>>>>> on servers and software. If there's a problem, it's someone else's job to
>>>>>> fix it and my only job is to report the issue. What if I'm on vacation 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

I was curious so found that Gmail started requiring emails sent to personal
Gmail to have SPF or DKIM enabled or emails would be rejected or sent to
spam. Good for them to drag the bad email hosts along for the ride in
preventing spam.

These prevention measures are ridiculously easy to implement so I don't
have any patience for email hosts who don't set them up. If you can't
handle simple tasks, outsource things to the big boys.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/174124?hl=en#:~:text=Important%3A%20Starting%20November%202022%2C%20new,to%20verify%20they're%20authenticated
.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 7:33 PM Matt Hopkins  wrote:

> Do you use any Microsoft products? If you use Windows and care about data
> security then you've already failed. I find Microsoft the most deplorable,
> but I'm only one guy. I have to pick my battles. I refuse to use Microsoft
> (anything) but we use Gmail at work and it's more or less flawless. We have
> had some people report they can't reach us but the resolution is always
> what has already been mentioned here. Google made DKIM/SPF mandatory I want
> to say just a few months ago but many of the smaller mail providers do not
> have it set up yet.
>
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 4:49 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Jan,
>>
>> Most of the links you shared aren't of Google being hacked, but people
>> being scammed/phished. Tricking a user into sharing their login info means
>> the user was scammed, not that google was hacked. ONE link you shared says
>> less than 24 gmails in Iran were hacked somehow. None of your links share
>> that google has had a massive data breach at any time. That's not to say it
>> can't/won't happen but there's been no big hacks at Google as far as I can
>> remember.
>>
>> I stand by my claim that you're being paranoid. I promise you that
>> mail.com or hosting your own email is far less secure and more easily
>> hacked than Google is. Do you have thousands of engineers working to keep
>> your data secure? That answer is NO. I am not delusional enough to think
>> that hosting my own Linux server for email will be more secure than Google.
>> There's no way I can outsmart hackers, keep updated on hourly or daily
>> updates and patches, etc. Nor do I want to do that when I can outsource to
>> a company that does it much better than I do.
>>
>> I don't host a single server for our WISP in 11 years in business and I
>> won't be starting today. The cloud is the future and keeps me hands off on
>> servers and software. If there's a problem, it's someone else's job to fix
>> it and my only job is to report the issue. What if I'm on vacation and I
>> had one or more servers that failed? Now that's my job to fix things while
>> I'm supposed to be off the clock. I don't need that kind of stress in my
>> life so I refuse to host any servers that are mission critical to my
>> business. The only thing resembling a server would be our Preseem appliance
>> but we have backup OSPF routes around it in case that fails.
>>
>> Our billing system is Azotel and they have hosted it in the cloud for us
>> since we started 11 years ago. Total downtime in 11 years is under 1 hour.
>> Not every cloud service is that reliable. They handle the multiple backups
>> and securing of the servers too. Slack, for example, has probably had 12
>> hours of downtime or subpar performance in the 5 years we've used it but it
>> still was an issue I didn't have to fix myself.
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 2:31 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I like dmarc since you get to dictate the strictness and get reports on
>>> your overall deliverability
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 7:44 PM Darin Steffl 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jan,
>>>>
>>>> I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've seen
>>>> plenty of other platforms with breaches like t-mobile but Google is pretty
>>>> secure. I think you're acting a little paranoid in protecting your phone
>>>> number. I can pay some online service and get your home address, phone
>>>> numbers, and social security number if I wanted to. This information that
>>>> you think is very secure is almost public knowledge for a fee.
>>>>
>>>> As others have said, DKIM/SPF are industry standards, not Google, and
>>>> they're pretty old at this point. DMARC is newer, to me at least, in the
>>>> last several years so not every platform gives much weight to this but DKIM
>>>> and SPF is a must nowadays for any email provider.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 4:03 

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

Jan,

Most of the links you shared aren't of Google being hacked, but people
being scammed/phished. Tricking a user into sharing their login info means
the user was scammed, not that google was hacked. ONE link you shared says
less than 24 gmails in Iran were hacked somehow. None of your links share
that google has had a massive data breach at any time. That's not to say it
can't/won't happen but there's been no big hacks at Google as far as I can
remember.

I stand by my claim that you're being paranoid. I promise you that mail.com
or hosting your own email is far less secure and more easily hacked than
Google is. Do you have thousands of engineers working to keep your data
secure? That answer is NO. I am not delusional enough to think that hosting
my own Linux server for email will be more secure than Google. There's no
way I can outsmart hackers, keep updated on hourly or daily updates and
patches, etc. Nor do I want to do that when I can outsource to a company
that does it much better than I do.

I don't host a single server for our WISP in 11 years in business and I
won't be starting today. The cloud is the future and keeps me hands off on
servers and software. If there's a problem, it's someone else's job to fix
it and my only job is to report the issue. What if I'm on vacation and I
had one or more servers that failed? Now that's my job to fix things while
I'm supposed to be off the clock. I don't need that kind of stress in my
life so I refuse to host any servers that are mission critical to my
business. The only thing resembling a server would be our Preseem appliance
but we have backup OSPF routes around it in case that fails.

Our billing system is Azotel and they have hosted it in the cloud for us
since we started 11 years ago. Total downtime in 11 years is under 1 hour.
Not every cloud service is that reliable. They handle the multiple backups
and securing of the servers too. Slack, for example, has probably had 12
hours of downtime or subpar performance in the 5 years we've used it but it
still was an issue I didn't have to fix myself.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 2:31 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I like dmarc since you get to dictate the strictness and get reports on
> your overall deliverability
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 7:44 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Jan,
>>
>> I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've seen
>> plenty of other platforms with breaches like t-mobile but Google is pretty
>> secure. I think you're acting a little paranoid in protecting your phone
>> number. I can pay some online service and get your home address, phone
>> numbers, and social security number if I wanted to. This information that
>> you think is very secure is almost public knowledge for a fee.
>>
>> As others have said, DKIM/SPF are industry standards, not Google, and
>> they're pretty old at this point. DMARC is newer, to me at least, in the
>> last several years so not every platform gives much weight to this but DKIM
>> and SPF is a must nowadays for any email provider.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 4:03 PM Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>>> DKIM/SPF/DFMARC aren't "made-up standards" from Google.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail
>>>> service is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from google
>>>> that comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.  It's
>>>> a recent standard imposed by google.  And I'm never going to willingly give
>>>> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers will
>>>> have my email and my phone number.  Why don't I just broadcast on some
>>>> public website my social security number too?  Yeah, tiktok or twitter,
>>>> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along with my
>>>> real name.  Because when you give google your phone number, they now have
>>>> exactly who you are and access to all your private info.  How many times in
>>>> the last couple years has google been hacked?  Constantly!  I am not going
>>>> to freely give this shit to them.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I'm wrong, you're right.  When I bought the phone, google forced
>>>> me into an email address as part of using the phone.  I never use that
>>>> email and I refuse to login to anything using that email.  Other than that
>>>> I don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
>>>> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>
>>>> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you wouldnt have
>>>> created your own prob

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

with SMTP id 
>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>> 
>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>  
>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>  
>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>  
>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>  
>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>  bhLA==
>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; 
>>>> s=arc-20160816;
>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>  :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>> 
>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>  
>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>  
>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>  
>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>  
>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>  avNg==
>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>> Return-Path: 
>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>> for 
>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net 
>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 
>>>> 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP 
>>>> id csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>>>> + (UTC)
>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>> key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>>>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>>> 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>>> Subject: hellody
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 20

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

mEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>  avNg==
>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Return-Path: 
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca. [64.68.200.34])
>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 
>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>> for 
>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>spf=pass (google.com: domain of j.vank...@grnacres.net designates 
>>> 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=j.vank...@grnacres.net
>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easymail.ca 
>>> (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for ; Fri, 10 
>>> Mar 2023 15:43:01 + (UTC)
>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost 
>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 
>>> csxoJG_y5IgL for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 
>>> + (UTC)
>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com 
>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 
>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>  key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest 
>>> SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) 
>>> with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for ; Fri, 10 Mar 
>>> 2023 15:43:00 + (UTC)
>>> Message-ID: <7b07154d-8e71-69fc-f76a-bcfb5ec52...@grnacres.net>
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 
>>> Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>> To: thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>> From: Jan-GAMs 
>>> Subject: hellody
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed through the
>>>> FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> it was a test.  Only the ones addressed to you went through.  The
>>>>> others tested, bounced.  Your address is different somehow.  You mentioned
>>>>> your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that bounced were the
>>>>> free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.  The emails were
>>>>> sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.  The business
>>>>> ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced except for the one
>>>>> sent to you.  I picked 4 gmail addresses and sent them out,  all of the
>>>>> ones sent from the mail.com got bounced except yours.  What makes you
>>>>> so special?
>>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are
>>>>>> blocked as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

I've never heard of mail.com but I can assure you Gmail doesn't block
emails that are legitimate and follow proper SPF and DKIM configurations.

I receive all emails from people I'm expecting to receive. The only ones
that end up in spam seem to "host" their own email and don't follow best
practices for outgoing emails.

On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> i got your spam emails this morning
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM  wrote:
>
>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>>  All mail.com users cannot send you email.  How many other's are blocked
>> as well?  Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>
>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
>> no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
>> years.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
>> for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
>> the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
>> at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
>> not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
>> profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
>> email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.
>>
>>
>>
>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I
>> pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year
>> to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we
>> never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go
>> live your best life not having to support email.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
>> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
>> Edsel was before my time :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>>
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>>
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
>> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>&

Re: [AFMUG] mail servers

[Darin Steffl]

Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since 2012. Virtually
no issues at all aside from a handful of short outages over the last 11
years.

It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to contact them
for support. We also use Google drive and their version of office apps in
the cloud. We don't store any files locally at all. All business docs are
at Google and they're safe there and they handle the backups.

I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own server. It's
not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr roughly when looking at net
profit so spending even one hour a year trying to manage or fix my own
email server would cost me more than what I pay Google.

We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for gsuite and I pay
to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we pay less than $60 a year to
Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great peace mind.

This is relating to our internal business use. For customer email, we never
offered it and never will. Just recommend a free Gmail account and go live
your best life not having to support email.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we just dealt
> with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a flatbed because the
> Edsel was before my time :-)
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it serves for
>> employees and other business email addresses.  It is free that way and we
>> don’t have to worry about anything else.  But for some reason the server
>> hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the same time each day.
>>
>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other things so we
>> stopped using them some time ago.  For example, our scanner stopped being
>> able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>
>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is costing you
>> this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber mail and our office
>> emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split routing for the
>> mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have dropped service
>> but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy profit to cover any
>> administrative stuff.
>>
>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The way I look at
>> it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I have bigger problems than
>> my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around with email servers would
>> have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a battery powered inverter
>> just so i can still use my corded drill. I can, it will work, its not that
>> complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste of time.
>>
>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any resources
>> unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It is only for our own company email.  No customers on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>> Surgemail is exactly what I used.  Seemed to be a good product.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>
>>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>>> *Online: **www.surfici.net*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: ICI]
>>>
>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones - IP
>>> Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>>
>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>> *prohibited.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney via AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not free
>>> though.  Extremely granular configuration options.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>
>>> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues.  At its peak we had
>>> thousandth of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not free.  And they went to per user licensing so it’s not cost
>>> effective for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for internal email.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for iOS 
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] RF Cage for WIFI

[Darin Steffl]

Why do you care? If the ssids are disabled and nothing is connected, the
wifi beacons aren't interfering much with your own WiFi network.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2023, 7:09 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I've got a Comcast residential Modem that I can't get the RF turned off
> in.  I haven't been able to find the right phrase at support to get them
> to do it.  So far All that's happened is they've removed the SSID's, but
> the RF is still broadcasting.  There are some 'RF cages' on Amazon to
> 'limit your exposure to WIFI'  But they're marketed as making your house
> 'healthier'  and reviews say they just slightly weaken the signal.
>
> Is there a way to properly ground out a cage around the modem to block
> all the WIFI?  Many moons ago, back in the days of 802.11b, I put an AP
> into a lead lined pelican case, and was still able to connect to the
> WIFI from outside of it.  I'm guessing I didn't do something right back
> then.
>
> FWIW though, I am getting 2.4gb/s x 230mb/s through the coax
> connection.  There's only a 2.5G interface on the modem.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Tiny PCB Ethernet Gigabit Switches

[Darin Steffl]

Why would you need 350 watts for a survey pack? No SM's out there today use
anywhere close to that.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2023 at 1:23 PM Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion; the PowerLink looks cool and compact.
> I need 4-pair 48v PoE at 350 watts and a gig port; as far as I can tell
> the PowerLink can’t handle that wattage or gig port.
>
> On Feb 24, 2023, at 07:56, Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
> Just plug in a PowerLink.  Problem solved.
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2023 at 11:04 PM Scott Vander Dussen 
> wrote:
>
>> Since the list is quiet...
>>
>> I’ve been developing a new compact battery survey tool and had need for a
>> tiny gigabit switch. I discovered BotBlox, a company in the UK, whom has
>> developed some creative and extremely compact switching solutions. The
>> website and products has a Packetflux feel (which I like).
>>
>> Products - Standard Series - BotBlox
>> <https://botblox.io/collections/standard-series>
>> botblox.io <https://botblox.io/collections/standard-series>
>> 
>> <https://botblox.io/collections/standard-series>
>> <https://botblox.io/collections/standard-series>
>>
>> Thought I’d pass along the resource.
>>
>> Scott
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>>
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>
>
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>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
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Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much

[Darin Steffl]

Has anyone had luck hiring a public insurance adjuster?

I may need one for property damage from my roofing contractor who caused
water ingress from a storm at my movie theater. I don't think it'll be fun
working with two insurance providers (my contractor's and my own). So I
thought hiring an adjuster is easy for me but they take a cut of the
settlement.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2023, 7:07 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Totally depends on the model.
>
> Some record 24/7.  Some on movement.
>
> Some will overwrite the oldest files.  Some will simply not record at all.
>
> On Tue, Feb 7, 2023 at 6:08 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> So do dash cams record continually whenever your car is turned on?
>> Do they write over memory?
>>
>> *From:* James Howard
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 7, 2023 3:35 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Missed me by that much
>>
>>
>> Record all your calls with them.  My daughter made a left turn (she
>> thought she had a green arrow but wasn’t positive and told the cop and
>> insurance guy that) in front of a car that might have run a red light if
>> she was correct.  It was a four lane street and the oncoming car by all
>> accounts including the driver was in the left lane.  He hit the rear wheel
>> of my daughter’s Jeep in the crosswalk of the street she had turned into
>> (he came from the left lane, actually came across a lane to hit her in the
>> left lane of the street she had turned into).  They pulled into the gas
>> station at the corner to get out of traffic (his suggestion).  I came
>> because my daughter didn’t have proof of insurance in the Jeep so I ran
>> over to show that on my phone.  The other guy comes out of his car and
>> knocks on my daughter’s window since it had started to rain and says “do
>> you happen to have any cigarettes, I don’t want to run to gas station in
>> the rain”.  17 year old daughter was driving.  15 year old sitting in
>> passenger seat (was reading a book when it happened so said she didn’t see
>> anything) was who the guy asked for cigs.   Anyway, back to the story, he
>> tells the cop while I’m sitting there that he was going straight at the
>> intersection (nothing about turning) and was pretty sure he had a green
>> light.  Cop says since they left the intersection he couldn’t write
>> anything for sure.  You could see the pile of pieces in the crosswalk that
>> came off my daughter’s Jeep but he said there was no proof that it happened
>> there.  There were skid marks but not definitive.  Cop felt bad but I
>> understand he couldn’t state what he thought probably happened.  So,
>> anyway, I check with gas station and they don’t have any cameras pointed at
>> the intersection so no footage.
>>
>>
>>
>> So to the reason for recording all calls from State Farm.  I have State
>> Farm but because it was an older Jeep we don’t have collision coverage.
>> The other driver also had State Farm but had an almost new CRV and had full
>> coverage.  Jeep was still sort of driveable (I ended up selling it for
>> $500) but the whole front end of CRV was hanging off.  State Farm calls me
>> and asks to talk to my daughter.  I sit next to her while she’s talking to
>> them.  She tells them that she’s pretty sure she had a green arrow but
>> she’s not positive.  State Farm talks to the other guy.  State Farm calls
>> me back and says “your daughter is 85% at fault so you get nothing”.   I
>> said wait a minute…..  how is 85% her fault if the other guy came across 2
>> lanes and told the cop on sight he was going straight, not turning?  The
>> State Farm guy says “your daughter said she turned in front of him and he
>> had a green light”.  I said that is completely false.  I was sitting here
>> when she said she was pretty sure she had a green arrow.  State Farm says
>> “the other driver stated that he had a green light and your daughter turned
>> in front of him”.  So I said, “my 15 year old was reading a book in the
>> Jeep and said so rather than lying like this other driver.  If she had said
>> that she saw the whole thing and my daughter had a green arrow would you
>> have said that was 2 stories against one?”.  They didn’t say for sure but
>> it sounded like that would have affected it.  So including getting no money
>> for the Jeep, my daughter also got that accident on her record and State
>> Farm raised our rates.  I wish I could find a different company but they’ve
>> actually been decent other than that time.
>>
>>
>>
>> But….. again record the calls to them because they will lie about what
>> you tell them.  Also, anybody that’s still suffering through my account
>> here…. Put dash cams in your cars.  I put them in every vehicle we have
>> after that.  Thankfully we haven’t been in any accidents since but I’ve
>> actually turned dash cam footage over to the cops twice now for accidents
>> that happened in front of us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Good luck with State Farm!!
>>
>>
>>
>> James
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Movie Review

[Darin Steffl]

I loved this movie! You kind of experience all kinds of emotions in 2 hours.

On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 8:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> I really liked the original.
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 2:34 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: Movie Review
>
>
> A man called Otto.   Hey, wife and I were just happy to be able to get out
> and see a movie.  Plus, we were recovering from my selection last weekend,
> Babylon.  Best thing I can say about Babylon was the sound track.  Good
> stuff.  Rest of it was garbage LOL
>
> Man called Otto.  This is a remake of a movie that did really well
> overseas a few years ago apparently.  Very much the same story line.
> Good stuff, carry a tissue with you.  For once they didn't give away the
> entire plot in the previews.  We all know grumpy old men like
> Otto.   We rarely know their backstory
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Power excitement

[Darin Steffl]

I love how quick the generator started up. They waste no time when the grid
fails, do they? I would figure there would be a 10+ second delay or so to
see if the grid comes back up before it starts up.

On Mon, Jan 9, 2023, 8:52 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Wonder what caused it?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nate Burke
> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2023 5:44 PM
> To: Animal Farm
> Subject: [AFMUG] Power excitement
>
> Always exciting when a camera is pointing in the right direction.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out

[Darin Steffl]

You've confirmed you don't have the same loopback and router ID on both
sides? This behavior sounds like that's the issue. They need to be
different.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 5:25 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I changed the RB4011 to a RB2009, and tried downgrading the RB4011 to
> ROS6.49.6 from ROS7.5 and it's doing the exact same thing.  I've tried
> setting up an EoIP Tunnel across the F425, and changed the Router ID in
> OSPF.  Still doing the exact same thing.  As soon as I enable the F425
> link, the Entire route table will flap between the Powerbridge and the
> F425 even though the powerbridge is a cost of 20 higher than the F425.
> If I disable the F425, everything is stable over the Powerbridge.  Not
> sure what else to try.
>
> On 10/6/2022 4:22 PM, Robert Haas wrote:
> > Make sure you haven't duplicated your router id.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Nate Burke
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:58 PM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > Subject: [AFMUG] OSPF Pulling my hair out
> >
> > I have a site with a RB4011 connected via an old M5 Powerbridge, and an
> EPMP PTP425.  The 4011 is running ROSv7, everything else is on ROSv6.
> Connecting to a CCR1036 and CCR1009 on the other ends of the radios.
> >
> > Everything was working perfectly for several months until a storm came
> through, and now the F425 OSPF Session will not stay stable. The OSPF
> Weights are set to prefer the F425 link.  The OSPF neighbor never goes
> down, Adjacency/state never change, but the RB4011 will update it's entire
> routing table about every 5 seconds and flap back and forth between the
> Powerbridge and the F425.  The remote routers never update the route to the
> 4011, it is stable over the F425.  If I disable the
> > F425 neighbor, everything is stable over the powerbridge.  If I disable
> the Powerbridge neighbor, the router will lose connectivity for a second
> every 10 or 15 seconds, like it loses it's routing table.
> >
> > There is no packet loss across the F425 link, and it will Tik to Tik bw
> test at 100MB sync no problem and no packet loss.  I've even tried changing
> ports on the 4011, plugging the F425 into a completely separate OSPF router
> on the remote end.  I've also put the traffic through a VLAN on the F425 to
> see if the F425 was doing something weird with the packets.  The F425
> radios on both ends have been power cycled.  I've also updated ROS to the
> latest 7beta, and no change.
> >
> > I'd think this is an issue with ROSv7/6 since the routing table keeps
> updating, but the powerbridge link is always fine, so it feels like
> something with the F425.  Especially since it happened after a storm.
> > But at the same time, how could a failure of the F425 be affecting
> OSPF?  When I do OSPF Logging on the 4011, nothing is looking out of the
> ordinary.  I guess I could try physically changing the 4011, but I've never
> had a failure like that before.
> >
> > Mainly I just want to vent that I'm probably missing something stupid, I
> just haven't been able to figure out what it is yet.
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political

[Darin Steffl]

Chuck,

The craziest conspiracy theories are probably believed by a small number of
people, sure. But larger conspiracies like the covid vaccine will kill you
is believed by a much larger percentage of Republicans. Just look at
vaccine rates between the right and left. Many also believe rumors that all
kids are being groomed in schools, there's litter boxes for kids that
identify as a furry, that schools are teaching kids how to be gay, and
more. I've talked to enough anti-vaxxers that they're not the fringe
anymore.

I live in rural MN and there's some people that have "fu*k Biden" flags or
"trump won" flags up. A farmer also painted some hay bales that say trump
won or "keep your guns, rights, and God". People flying an American flag
with a trump flag right underneath. What they can't see is how un-American
that is. I can't wait for the day that he passes away and these people see
how much of an evil person he is.

I would say that at least a majority of people who still support trump are
as low as the sewer trash I'm seeing interviewed. Normally good people have
been indoctrinated into the cult when you actually see them talk about
trump.

On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 8:21 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Very few trump supporters can ce characterized as below.  You are sampling
> the sewage concentrate distilled down be the left.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 11, 2022, at 12:48 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Rory,
>
> How can anyone say trump loves this country? He hates or is indifferent to
> most everyone in it. He's a narcissist that ONLY cares about himself. He
> doesn't care about you, me, or anyone that disagrees with him.
>
> He's tossed aside and stuck his mob of cult followers on anyone who
> disobeys him, including people who work for him in office and during
> campaigns. One mistake and he tells everyone you're worthless or against
> him, then the targets of his hate start receiving death threats from his
> followers. He's the least loyal person in office.
>
> The people still going to his rallies are mindless sheep. I've watched
> dozens of interviews and the conspiracies people share are insane. JFK Jr
> is still alive, Biden is really Obama with a mask on, 5G is mind control,
> microchips in vaccines, etc. Their IQ levels are lower than low. Anyone
> with a brain sees through trump's lies. I hope his supporters snap out of
> the hypnosis soon.
>
> You're not supposed to worship politicians. I voted for Biden because he's
> a decent human being but I don't make him my entire personality like
> trumpers do. I have no merchandise, I don't think he was sent by God, I
> don't praise him or think he's perfect, I disagree with some things like a
> normal person should.
>
> 2024 better offer us some better choices than Biden/Trump.
>
> On Tue, Oct 11, 2022, 12:26 AM Rory Conaway 
> wrote:
>
>> But you can’t say he doesn’t love this country and did some great things
>> for it .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 10, 2022 8:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political
>>
>>
>>
>> Zero loyalty is a primary feature of Trump.  He would toss his mother
>> under the bus.  I have heard AOC say some anti demo stuff.  Not much.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 10, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>  the way that the trump cult vilifies any other position in the
>> _republican_ party is what sets them apart.   Does AOC vilify Biden?
>>
>> On 10/10/22 9:25 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>
>> The hypocrites on the right LOVE Elon Musk because they think he'll
>> reinstate Trump if he buys Twitter but they also HATE EV's with a passion.
>> There's plenty of misinformation out there. I have driven a Tesla as my
>> daily for 4 years. I had the Model 3 first and now I have the refreshed
>> 2022 Model S and love both.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you ever want to laugh and cry at some people that have the lowest IQs
>> in America and who are attending Trump rallies, search "Jordan Klepper
>> trump" on youtube and watch some clips here. It's sad to see how "poorly
>> educated" some are. Anyone still supporting him today is part of the cult.
>> You can be Republican but not support Trump but anyone else is far gone off
>> the deep end.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2022 at 11:07 AM Carl Peterson <
>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> My thoughts, and they really are just thoughts on 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: about time

[Darin Steffl]

Took long enough. No one should be in prison for simple possession of weed.
It turns non-violent criminals into something worse than that. I'm sure
it's traumatizing for those incarcerated for something that didn't hurt
anyone.

Why put people in prison for weed but sentence people way less time, or not
at all, for physical abuse, battery, sex crimes, etc? It's sick!

We see too many black people in prison for weed but white people get
charged less or are released on probation for rape with evidence.
Particularly, young white men who "have a future" and the judge wouldn't
want to ruin their life. Forget about the woman they raped, it's just boys
being boys.

Obviously not every judge is a shit head racist, but some of them are and
they should be weeded out. The US incarcerates way too many people as a
whole.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022, 4:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> My nephew has a close friend who was sent up 8 years for possession of 2
> or 3 ounces of weed. I think he got a couple years off for good behavior
> or something, but the kid wasn't even 21.
>
>
>
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/06/statement-from-president-biden-on-marijuana-reform/
>
> --
> bp
> 
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT pronouns

[Darin Steffl]

Why does this bother you? It's just an email signature.

I don't list my pronouns anywhere, and have no desire to, but I'm certainly
not offended or angered when I see someone list them in their email.

Live and let live

On Thu, Oct 6, 2022 at 10:16 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Got my first email where the sender listed their pronouns.
> It was from the clerk of the Utah court of appeals.
> She/Her/Hers
>
> I hope this does not become a thing.
>
> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] WIFI Camera venting

[Darin Steffl]

Because MOST consumer based security cameras are WiFi based. Any camera
running off ethernet/PoE is going to an NVR and they don't typically sell
camera systems like this at Bestbuy or Target. It's Nest, Arlo, Ring, etc.
as that's what's easy for most people.

Finding a power outlet to plug into is easier than running ethernet to
cameras back to a central location.

We too have enough calls of people expecting WiFi cameras to work hundreds
of feet away from their router. Or we install WiFi inside a shed but they
don't tell us they want to install cameras OUTSIDE through steel siding and
then call us when the cameras won't connect and we see a -90 signal to the
managed router.

On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 3:29 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> RJ45 ends scare people, you can't use a screwdriver.
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2022 at 1:20 PM Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't get the wifi camera thing, you're already running power, so why
>> not take the time to wire the cameras up correctly?
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022, Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> Usually the incidents are not this close, but when they're on top of
>>> each other it just makes me angry.  Just because you refuse to understand
>>> it, doesn't make it magic.
>>>
>>> Rural customer wants our internet. ok, no problem, we do that all the
>>> time.  The ONLY reason they want the connection from us, is so they can put
>>> RING cameras in their steel barn 300' away from the house, and the kid at
>>> best buy told them it would be fine because you just plug them in and they
>>> connect to the wifi.
>>>
>>> One of our property managers who we have several connections to her
>>> buildings wants to put 30 cameras in at 2 MDU buildings in an office park.
>>> Both their camera vendor and Comcast assured her that it would only require
>>> a connection in one of the FACP rooms, and that the other building 400'
>>> away, with the FACP Room on the opposite end of the building would be able
>>> to 'ping off it' just fine.  I know comcast advertises their new wifi as
>>> Magic, but I don't think even it could do that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Am I the bad guy for dashing their hopes and dreams?  I consider it
>>> 'managing expectations'  like 'If your computer can't print to your
>>> printer, getting our connection instead of a hotspot isn't going to help
>>> that'
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review

[Darin Steffl]

The studios don't guarantee any minimums for us but WE guarantee minimums
for them!

So if we get a movie that does horrible and doesn't sell many tickets, we
still pay a guaranteed minimum to studios and it's typically about $300.
It's not too hard to meet that with any decent movie but some movies last
year did badly and we didn't meet the minimum so studios took 100% of the
ticket sales (under $300 total in ticket revenue) and we actually paid more
than we collected to fulfill the minimum. That means we only made profit on
concession sales.

Moral of the story, ticket sales don't make theaters money. Only concession
sales do. Now our prices are much more affordable than the big guys like
AMC, Regal, etc. but it's still a struggle to run a theater. I wouldn't
recommend anyone consider it as a way to make money. My WISP is at least
50x more profitable than this theater will ever be. But the theater is more
fun than the WISP for the most part. Everyone is happy to be here!

On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 1:28 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Can't take it with you.  Some folks gamble at the tables, others of us
> like
> to start businesses.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Robert Andrews
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2022 11:17 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review
>
> It's wonderful that you can do this for your community!!  That said, it
> sounds like the punch line in "how to make a small fortune in the movie
> business"
>
> On 6/28/22 09:17, Darin Steffl wrote:
> > Chuck,
> >
> > For big movies like top gun, batman, Disney movies, minions, the studio
> > takes at least 62.5% from us on ticket sales. So examples below of our
> net
> > profit on ticket sales is listed and it isn't nearly enough to pay the
> > bills. This is why concessions cost so much at theaters because we
> > couldn't stay open on ticket sales alone.
> >
> > Regular $9 ticket with tax included
> > Sales tax = $0.62 to the state
> > $8.38 pre-tax
> > Studio takes 62.5% = $5.24
> > Theater keeps = $3.14 net profit
> >
> > Child/senior $6 ticket
> > Sales tax = $0.41 to the state
> > $5.59 pre-tax
> > Studio takes 62.5% = $3.49
> > Theater keeps = $2.10 net profit
> >
> >
> > As a single screen theater, these small net profits per ticket barely
> > cover property taxes, utilities, and payroll. Let alone the equipment
> and
> > maintenance costs of needing to spend about $70,000 per auditorium every
> > 8-10 years to replace the projector and server. Add that we're replacing
> > our roof this week at $65k, new siding to cover the cracking stucco at
> > $70k, New marquee and EFIS on the front which will be around $100k,
> heated
> > recliners at $100k for the building, new concession stand and flooring
> > $30k.
> >
> > It's easy to see how I may never pay off the investments I'm putting
> into
> > this theater unless we increase attendance. My hope is this hobby will
> > eventually pay back my investments in 10 years so I don't have buyers
> > remorse. I bought this as it was going to close during covid lost likely
> > and the previous owners did not have the money or energy to keep it
> going
> > much longer. It's my childhood theater where I grew up and I love it so
> > I'm trying to save it, restore it, and make it the best place to see a
> > movie compared to the multiplex theaters that are dirty and have riff
> raff
> > people causing trouble.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 10:30 AM Steven Kenney via AF  > <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Small town local theatres are something I would support.  But I at
> > this point don't want to give a single penny to Hollywood, Disney or
> > any of those other studios that have lost touch with reality.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 9:32 PM Darin Steffl
> > mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> >
> > I'm biased because I bought a single screen theater in my
> > hometown right before lockdowns in March 2020.
> >
> > I offered half the listing price because of covid coming and the
> > sellers accepted. We've been open since Godzilla in March 2021
> > and things have been doing better.
> >
> > I can say with certainty that my $50k projector and sound system
> > blows any of your home theaters out of the water haha!
> >
> > That said, I prefer to watch new releases alone on days we're
> > closed or after the public shows because people are generally
> > annoying. Getting up to use the bathroom, dro

Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review

[Darin Steffl]

Chuck,

For big movies like top gun, batman, Disney movies, minions, the studio
takes at least 62.5% from us on ticket sales. So examples below of our net
profit on ticket sales is listed and it isn't nearly enough to pay the
bills. This is why concessions cost so much at theaters because we couldn't
stay open on ticket sales alone.

Regular $9 ticket with tax included
Sales tax = $0.62 to the state
$8.38 pre-tax
Studio takes 62.5% = $5.24
Theater keeps = $3.14 net profit

Child/senior $6 ticket
Sales tax = $0.41 to the state
$5.59 pre-tax
Studio takes 62.5% = $3.49
Theater keeps = $2.10 net profit


As a single screen theater, these small net profits per ticket barely cover
property taxes, utilities, and payroll. Let alone the equipment and
maintenance costs of needing to spend about $70,000 per auditorium every
8-10 years to replace the projector and server. Add that we're replacing
our roof this week at $65k, new siding to cover the cracking stucco at
$70k, New marquee and EFIS on the front which will be around $100k, heated
recliners at $100k for the building, new concession stand and flooring $30k.

It's easy to see how I may never pay off the investments I'm putting into
this theater unless we increase attendance. My hope is this hobby will
eventually pay back my investments in 10 years so I don't have buyers
remorse. I bought this as it was going to close during covid lost likely
and the previous owners did not have the money or energy to keep it going
much longer. It's my childhood theater where I grew up and I love it so I'm
trying to save it, restore it, and make it the best place to see a movie
compared to the multiplex theaters that are dirty and have riff raff people
causing trouble.

On Tue, Jun 28, 2022, 10:30 AM Steven Kenney via AF  wrote:

> Small town local theatres are something I would support.  But I at this
> point don't want to give a single penny to Hollywood, Disney or any of
> those other studios that have lost touch with reality.
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 9:32 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm biased because I bought a single screen theater in my hometown right
>> before lockdowns in March 2020.
>>
>> I offered half the listing price because of covid coming and the sellers
>> accepted. We've been open since Godzilla in March 2021 and things have been
>> doing better.
>>
>> I can say with certainty that my $50k projector and sound system blows
>> any of your home theaters out of the water haha!
>>
>> That said, I prefer to watch new releases alone on days we're closed or
>> after the public shows because people are generally annoying. Getting up to
>> use the bathroom, dropping things on the wood floor, talking, etc. All the
>> things you all hate, I hate too. But we keep a clean theater, have the best
>> popcorn I've ever tasted, we're friendly, and I'm renovating things slowly
>> over 2-3 years to repair and upgrade this 1937 theater.
>>
>> We just added a small 2nd screen upstairs so we can show more than one
>> movie at a time. 4k laser projector is coming next year with heated
>> recliners too.
>>
>> The movie industry is not dead and continues to be resilient coming out
>> of covid. The downside to this industry is we rely on good movies being
>> released. If the studios release a bunch of duds, theaters don't do well.
>> So we're at the mercy of the product that shows on our screens.
>>
>> Top Gun Maverick is one of my favorite movies now! I've seen it 3 times
>> and we're bringing it back for a week again starting July 1 because it did
>> so well for us in the first 2 weeks we had it. I'll watch it a 4th time.
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 7:22 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Not quite everything for me. For live events that have CC, the CC is
>>> about 10-15 seconds behind the actual dialog, so I turn it off because it
>>> becomes distracting.
>>>
>>> Sometimes when they have CC, there is silence after the person has said
>>> something that appears to me to be a complete sentence, yet the CC adds
>>> some pithy little thing that (I think) they didn't actually say.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 6/27/2022 4:37 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> I have CC on everything anymore.
>>>
>>> *From:* Nate Burke
>>> *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2022 5:23 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review
>>>
>>> Closed Captions, so you can understand what is being said, and Being
>>> able to pause for snack breaks (or rebooting the laundry) far outweigh the
>>> draw of the big screen for us.
>>>
>>> Although

Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review

[Darin Steffl]

I'm biased because I bought a single screen theater in my hometown right
before lockdowns in March 2020.

I offered half the listing price because of covid coming and the sellers
accepted. We've been open since Godzilla in March 2021 and things have been
doing better.

I can say with certainty that my $50k projector and sound system blows any
of your home theaters out of the water haha!

That said, I prefer to watch new releases alone on days we're closed or
after the public shows because people are generally annoying. Getting up to
use the bathroom, dropping things on the wood floor, talking, etc. All the
things you all hate, I hate too. But we keep a clean theater, have the best
popcorn I've ever tasted, we're friendly, and I'm renovating things slowly
over 2-3 years to repair and upgrade this 1937 theater.

We just added a small 2nd screen upstairs so we can show more than one
movie at a time. 4k laser projector is coming next year with heated
recliners too.

The movie industry is not dead and continues to be resilient coming out of
covid. The downside to this industry is we rely on good movies being
released. If the studios release a bunch of duds, theaters don't do well.
So we're at the mercy of the product that shows on our screens.

Top Gun Maverick is one of my favorite movies now! I've seen it 3 times and
we're bringing it back for a week again starting July 1 because it did so
well for us in the first 2 weeks we had it. I'll watch it a 4th time.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2022, 7:22 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Not quite everything for me. For live events that have CC, the CC is about
> 10-15 seconds behind the actual dialog, so I turn it off because it becomes
> distracting.
>
> Sometimes when they have CC, there is silence after the person has said
> something that appears to me to be a complete sentence, yet the CC adds
> some pithy little thing that (I think) they didn't actually say.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/27/2022 4:37 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I have CC on everything anymore.
>
> *From:* Nate Burke
> *Sent:* Monday, June 27, 2022 5:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Movie Review
>
> Closed Captions, so you can understand what is being said, and Being able
> to pause for snack breaks (or rebooting the laundry) far outweigh the draw
> of the big screen for us.
>
> Although, When I stream, is it truly using my 9.2 surround?
>
> On 6/27/2022 6:15 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> . And rolling jawbreakers down the isle.
>
> Now that's funny
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 6/27/2022 2:17 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> I detest the movie theater. theres always fools with phones on, smacking
> their lips, talking. God only know what communicable diseases youre
> catching off the seats. they dont even use real butter anymore.
>
> I remember seeing movies like Airplane and whatnot in the theaters and
> watching people get up and leave at the credits and missing the funny stuff
> in them. And rolling jawbreakers down the isle.
>
> On Mon, Jun 27, 2022 at 12:08 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> I've found for the last 10 years or so that "going to the movies" adds
>> zero to the quality of my life.
>>
>> Am I an outlier?
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 6/27/2022 9:53 AM, Steven Kenney via AF wrote:
>>
>> Go see Maverick.  Everything else out there from Hollywood is garbage.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 26, 2022 at 12:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Elvis
>>> Meh
>>> Wait for streaming.
>>>
>>> Didn’t like how they did the first half.
>>> I really thought Elvis ditched Col. Tom Parker before he died, guess
>>> not.
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>>>
>>
>>
>> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY This communication, including any attachments,
>> is intended only for the use of the addressee(s) to this email and is
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>> an intended recipient, any review, disclosure, conversion to hard copy,
>> dissemination, reproduction or other use of any part of this communication
>> is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error or
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT too old - (Soylent Green is People)

[Darin Steffl]

78 seems imagined. It might be easier to just use "they" which covers all
bases and shouldn't offend anyone.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022, 10:06 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Got a spam from an HR training company willing to come in and train my
> staff on the proper usage of the 78 personal pronouns.  Seriously...
> Gheeze.
>
> From now on, I will only answer to “the demigod”.
>
> (demi girl was one of the pronouns)
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...

[Darin Steffl]

Maybe Tesla's new Optimus robot can help in future active shooter
situations. Send it in instead of scared humans and let it disable the bad
guy.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2022, 9:40 AM Andy Trimmell 
wrote:

> I liked when the conversation started with people adding in some ways to
> possibly resolve things.  Ideas are great. Pointing fingers is divisive.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2022 10:28 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...
>
>
>
> After republicans take office the police, firefighters, libraries and
> schools get defunded/reduced, I'm on a local fireboard, experinced it
> happen several times.  Don't complain to me about who's doing the defunding.
>
> On 6/6/22 11:05, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> There has to be a decision made on what we want from police.
>
> You cant demand they shoot white shooters, but gently caress any other
> ethnicity.
>
> You cant demand police be demilitarized at the same time you demand they
> be ready to engage a heavily armed operator at a split second notice
>
> you cant demand police protect schools at all times while
> simultaneously eliminating 50 percent of the school resource officers.
>
> You cant demand the school resource officers be a soft presence while you
> also want them shooting perps in the face.
>
> You cant do any of this at all while also defunding the police.
>
>
>
> Military is ready because theyre always ready, police are never ready
> because theyre always in sensitivty classes, or being arrested for doing
> their job because the media said so.
>
>
>
> Firefightrs are no more capable of handling these situations than police,
> theyre all people
>
>
>
> Theres also insurability. Scene safety if paramount in all Emergency
> services. Firefighters dont run into active petrochemical fires the same as
> they would run into a residential structure fire. There is a line in which
> the insurance companies (and taxpayers) will not tolerate the risk. When
> monday morning quarterbacking gives way to tuesday morning reality, the
> demands will seem much less realistic
>
>
>
>
>
> I say we just burn it all. pick any longitudinal point and light her up.
> May only the strongest and fastest survive
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:51 PM castarritt  wrote:
>
> We've neutered the police so effectively they can't do the job anymore.
> We need terminator robots.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:49 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I have been shot at, but never been in combat.  I don’t carry a weapon
> because I don’t want that option.  That option is one of the initial
> starting conditions of a higher order ordinary differential equation.
>
> I prefer a linear equation.
>
>
>
> If a firefighter is armored such that they can probably survive a gunshot,
> that would steer their thinking toward rescue over taking out the shooter.
> Let the cops do that.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 6, 2022 11:09 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...
>
>
>
> True, if they're properly trained and doing their job it would be more
> effective.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:05 PM Robert  wrote:
>
> There was also the shooting down in the south, where they had a school
> "police" officer who stood back and did nothing.   That's not necessarily a
> solution either.
>
> On 6/6/22 9:58 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> Seems like we should just be giving additional funding to police
> departments so that they can have a regular presence at schools.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 11:08 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I may regret posting this but I had a thought.
>
>
>
> How about we let the fire department handle active shooters at schools.
>
> They know how to get there fast.  They are ready to go at an instants
> notice.
>
> They know how to breach any building and rescue survivors.
>
> They have heavy protective gear on, just add a layer of kevlar.
>
> Or give them extra/different gear they can don on the way to the
> incident.
>
> They sure as hell don’t stand around outside discussing jurisdiction and
> strategy.
>
> They care more about rescue than they do about their own lives.
>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...

[Darin Steffl]

Why is everyone's solution to spend tons more money on hardening schools
and adding more paid law enforcement?

The solution is and always has been to keep bad guys from getting guns.
It's much cheaper than hardening every public place. Why do you want to
make school a prison? Barbed wire fences, one door, armed police or guards,
etc. That's literally prison. Kids shouldn't have to deal with that.

They should be able to go to a happy and pretty school campus and not be
shot by a crazy male American. This means making guns harder to purchase,
period!

If you only harden schools, how are you going to do the same to every other
public space like stores, theaters, stadiums, etc. You aren't. Again, it's
back to guns.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2022, 1:38 PM  wrote:

> That’s a fancy way to say you only get to lose a gunfight once.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, June 06, 2022 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...
>
>
>
> I have been shot at, but never been in combat.  I don’t carry a weapon
> because I don’t want that option.  That option is one of the initial
> starting conditions of a higher order ordinary differential equation.
>
> I prefer a linear equation.
>
>
>
> If a firefighter is armored such that they can probably survive a gunshot,
> that would steer their thinking toward rescue over taking out the shooter.
> Let the cops do that.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
>
> *Sent:* Monday, June 6, 2022 11:09 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT - here I go again...
>
>
>
> True, if they're properly trained and doing their job it would be more
> effective.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 12:05 PM Robert  wrote:
>
> There was also the shooting down in the south, where they had a school
> "police" officer who stood back and did nothing.   That's not necessarily a
> solution either.
>
> On 6/6/22 9:58 AM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> Seems like we should just be giving additional funding to police
> departments so that they can have a regular presence at schools.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 11:08 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I may regret posting this but I had a thought.
>
>
>
> How about we let the fire department handle active shooters at schools.
>
> They know how to get there fast.  They are ready to go at an instants
> notice.
>
> They know how to breach any building and rescue survivors.
>
> They have heavy protective gear on, just add a layer of kevlar.
>
> Or give them extra/different gear they can don on the way to the
> incident.
>
> They sure as hell don’t stand around outside discussing jurisdiction and
> strategy.
>
> They care more about rescue than they do about their own lives.
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Maverick

[Darin Steffl]

I saw it a month ago at CinemaCon and I loved it! The whole crowd did.

My theater's customers gave great feedback tonight too. It should do well.

I liked it better than the original.

On Fri, May 27, 2022, 9:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
wrote:

> Loved it!  First time in a movie theater since Covid.  The P51 was icing
> on the cake!
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

That calculation is wrong based on current data in MN at least. I ran the
numbers and 300 miles out of 358 mile range on M3 long range is roughly
68kwh out of an 82kwh battery. In MN at 0.33/kwh, the cost to add 300 miles
of range is about $22.67

Compare to a camry that maybe averages 32 MPG at $4.30 a gallon and the
cost to go the same 300 miles is $40.31 so I guess even with higher charger
costs than normal, it's still cheaper than gas. Comparing to an suv or
truck and it's even more savings.

The best part is that tesla is more efficient than most/all gas vehicles
but also faster than many of them too.

The cost at home for me to add 300 miles of range is about $8.25


On Fri, May 27, 2022, 10:04 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> ~300 miles for $13
> https://evadept.com/calc/tesla-supercharger-charging-cost-calculator
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 10:43 AM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> Loving this thread '*L*earning *E*verthing *N*eeded about *T*eslas'
>>
>> Seems lots of people here have Teslas.  How does billing at the
>> Supercharger actually work?  I read through the website, and the
>> back-of-the-napkin math I ran seemed that charging at a supercharger was
>> about the equivalent of a tank of gas.  ~$40-$50 (I have a small car).  Is
>> that accurate?
>> On 5/27/2022 9:04 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Tap the Climate Controls settings screen > turn on Preconditioning in
>> settings > select 'Schedule' to set a daily time when you want to be ready
>> to drive.
>>
>> There's also a great API to control your car from anywhere (as long as it
>> has connectivity).
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 9:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you schedule the climate control to turn on?  I like that my Leaf
>>> will start the AC or heat a half hour before my normal drive times.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 8:26 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Tesla recommends plugging in.   You can set how full it will charge
>>> to with the phone app, but the LFP batteries you are getting will let you
>>> leave that at 100% without impacting performance of the batteries.   You
>>> will like the phone app it has a lot of features.   I figured out that you
>>> can create an email alias and have both your and your wifes phone use that
>>> to log in with full features instead of having a superior and inferior
>>> account.
>>>
>>> On 5/26/22 2:31 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> With the Leaf, I have always plugged it in when I got to work, or in one
>>> case where I had a long commute, both at work and at home.  Never had a
>>> battery problem.  Except during really cold weather but all Leafs have that
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to the heated battery.  Not understanding if I should
>>> not charge the Tesla every day as my daily commute is about 14 miles RT.  I
>>> like having it topped up every day so that I can go wherever I want.  But
>>> if that is hard on the battery I will have to change the way I charge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:11 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>>
>>> If you're not looking at the exterior with a microscope, you'll be VERY
>>> happy with your M3 over the Leaf. It's faster, more range, bigger, and more
>>> fun. The infotainment is awesome too.
>>>
>>> Let us know your review of the car once you get it. Their charger
>>> network is the largest in the world too so road trips are quite easy even
>>> with lower range. You have the smaller battery in that model so charge time
>>> will be under 20 minutes to add 70-80% of the total capacity on each
>>> charge. You should not charge to 100% unless you absolutely need that range
>>> to get to the next charger. I recommend only charging to 80% on road trips
>>> to keep the charge times down. Like any battery, the charge rate decreases
>>> the closer you get to 100%. It drops pretty quick after 80% so trips can be
>>> made faster if you charge from 10% to 80% than if you charge from 40% to
>>> 100% for example.
>>>
>>> For your daily charging at home, they recommend no more than 90% full to
>>> maintain the range of your battery. If you charge more than that, plan on
>>> driving the car within a couple hours so your car doesn't sit charged above
>>> 90% for an extended period of time.
>>>
>&g

Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

I forgot to reply about the Supercharger costs. So as long as you have your
credit card linked to your tesla account, charging is super easy. Back up
to the pedestal and plug it in. That's it. It's then billed to your account
at the end of the session.

Costs have increased a lot this year so it's becoming closer to the cost of
gas but not quite there. It will always be cheaper to charge at home for
your daily use. Only use superchargers for road trips. In MN, the
supercharger costs $0.33/kwh but my home is roughly $0.125/kwh so almost 3x
cheaper at home. I think in 2018 when I had my first tesla, it was around
$0.21/kwh at chargers.




On Fri, May 27, 2022, 9:58 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> Tesla definitely has precondition schedule to warm the battery and
> interior with Hvac. I don't use it in my garage because I don't care to
> have the car warm or cold before my drive. It heats and cools so fast I
> don't see the point. I sometime manually turn on Hvac to defrost my
> windshield in the winter when it's sitting outside. Turn it on 5 to 10 mins
> before you're ready to go and your car is heated, seats are hot, and
> steering wheel too. All from within the app of course.
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022, 9:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> Perfect, I asked the sales rep after the test drive about that and he
>> said it does not have that feature.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 27, 2022 8:04 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>
>> Tap the Climate Controls settings screen > turn on Preconditioning in
>> settings > select 'Schedule' to set a daily time when you want to be ready
>> to drive.
>>
>> There's also a great API to control your car from anywhere (as long as it
>> has connectivity).
>>
>> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 9:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you schedule the climate control to turn on?  I like that my Leaf
>>> will start the AC or heat a half hour before my normal drive times.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 26, 2022, at 8:26 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Tesla recommends plugging in.   You can set how full it will charge
>>> to with the phone app, but the LFP batteries you are getting will let you
>>> leave that at 100% without impacting performance of the batteries.   You
>>> will like the phone app it has a lot of features.   I figured out that you
>>> can create an email alias and have both your and your wifes phone use that
>>> to log in with full features instead of having a superior and inferior
>>> account.
>>>
>>> On 5/26/22 2:31 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>>
>>> With the Leaf, I have always plugged it in when I got to work, or in one
>>> case where I had a long commute, both at work and at home.  Never had a
>>> battery problem.  Except during really cold weather but all Leafs have that
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to the heated battery.  Not understanding if I should
>>> not charge the Tesla every day as my daily commute is about 14 miles RT.  I
>>> like having it topped up every day so that I can go wherever I want.  But
>>> if that is hard on the battery I will have to change the way I charge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:11 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>>
>>> If you're not looking at the exterior with a microscope, you'll be VERY
>>> happy with your M3 over the Leaf. It's faster, more range, bigger, and more
>>> fun. The infotainment is awesome too.
>>>
>>> Let us know your review of the car once you get it. Their charger
>>> network is the largest in the world too so road trips are quite easy even
>>> with lower range. You have the smaller battery in that model so charge time
>>> will be under 20 minutes to add 70-80% of the total capacity on each
>>> charge. You should not charge to 100% unless you absolutely need that range
>>> to get to the next charger. I recommend only charging to 80% on road trips
>>> to keep the charge times down. Like any battery, the charge rate decreases
>>> the closer you get to 100%. It drops pretty quick after 80% so trips can be
>>> made faster if you charge from 10% to 80% than if you charge from 40% to
>>> 100% for example.
>>>
>>> For your daily charging at home, they recommend no more than 90% full to
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

Tesla definitely has precondition schedule to warm the battery and interior
with Hvac. I don't use it in my garage because I don't care to have the car
warm or cold before my drive. It heats and cools so fast I don't see the
point. I sometime manually turn on Hvac to defrost my windshield in the
winter when it's sitting outside. Turn it on 5 to 10 mins before you're
ready to go and your car is heated, seats are hot, and steering wheel too.
All from within the app of course.

On Fri, May 27, 2022, 9:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Perfect, I asked the sales rep after the test drive about that and he said
> it does not have that feature.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, May 27, 2022 8:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>
> Tap the Climate Controls settings screen > turn on Preconditioning in
> settings > select 'Schedule' to set a daily time when you want to be ready
> to drive.
>
> There's also a great API to control your car from anywhere (as long as it
> has connectivity).
>
> On Fri, May 27, 2022 at 9:44 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Can you schedule the climate control to turn on?  I like that my Leaf
>> will start the AC or heat a half hour before my normal drive times.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 26, 2022, at 8:26 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>  Tesla recommends plugging in.   You can set how full it will charge to
>> with the phone app, but the LFP batteries you are getting will let you
>> leave that at 100% without impacting performance of the batteries.   You
>> will like the phone app it has a lot of features.   I figured out that you
>> can create an email alias and have both your and your wifes phone use that
>> to log in with full features instead of having a superior and inferior
>> account.
>>
>> On 5/26/22 2:31 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>
>> With the Leaf, I have always plugged it in when I got to work, or in one
>> case where I had a long commute, both at work and at home.  Never had a
>> battery problem.  Except during really cold weather but all Leafs have that
>> problem.
>>
>> Looking forward to the heated battery.  Not understanding if I should not
>> charge the Tesla every day as my daily commute is about 14 miles RT.  I
>> like having it topped up every day so that I can go wherever I want.  But
>> if that is hard on the battery I will have to change the way I charge.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:11 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>
>> If you're not looking at the exterior with a microscope, you'll be VERY
>> happy with your M3 over the Leaf. It's faster, more range, bigger, and more
>> fun. The infotainment is awesome too.
>>
>> Let us know your review of the car once you get it. Their charger network
>> is the largest in the world too so road trips are quite easy even with
>> lower range. You have the smaller battery in that model so charge time will
>> be under 20 minutes to add 70-80% of the total capacity on each charge. You
>> should not charge to 100% unless you absolutely need that range to get to
>> the next charger. I recommend only charging to 80% on road trips to keep
>> the charge times down. Like any battery, the charge rate decreases the
>> closer you get to 100%. It drops pretty quick after 80% so trips can be
>> made faster if you charge from 10% to 80% than if you charge from 40% to
>> 100% for example.
>>
>> For your daily charging at home, they recommend no more than 90% full to
>> maintain the range of your battery. If you charge more than that, plan on
>> driving the car within a couple hours so your car doesn't sit charged above
>> 90% for an extended period of time.
>>
>> But if you ordered the RWD small battery version, I think you get the LFP
>> battery which means you can charge to 100% with no concerns about hurting
>> the battery. The link below will help you determine if you have the LFP
>> battery. If you do, you can charge to 100% at home but you do not need to
>> do so on road trips using superchargers because it takes too long to hit
>> 100%. Just charge until you have enough range to reach your next stop or
>> destination. Also download Plugshare and you can find Level 2 chargers all
>> around the country that aren't listed in the Tesla map. Many are free so
>> you can find spots like restaurants or hotels that offer free charging.
>>
>>
>> https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_jo/GU

Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

I'm fairly confident the model you ordered will have the LFP battery so it
can be charged to 100% with no concerns. Tesla recommends plugging in daily
so you won't hurt anything.

I'm in Minnesota and I've left my car outside in temps as low as -40 F and
hopped in to drive and it worked no problem. Heat starts in less than 20-30
seconds usually and the car drives. Obviously things are stiff and cold at
those temps, regen braking is non-existent, and the full acceleration isn't
available due to the cold but it's driveable. The more you drive, the more
the battery warms up and you will start seeing regen and performance
improve.

It should be a welcome improvement over the Leaf in all aspects except it's
a bigger car so you won't get away with super tight parking spots anymore :)

The Tesla app on your phone is awesome and they make improvements to it
every few months. The car itself also receives OTA updates via WiFi every
3-4 weeks on average. Make sure to connect your car to your home WiFi or
work so it can download in the background. You get to choose when to
install the update and can start it in the car or via the app.

I'm excited for you to get it!

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 9:43 PM Robert  wrote:

> Also note that with the phone app with full features location tracing on
> the car is always available.
>
> On 5/26/22 7:26 PM, Robert wrote:
>
> Tesla recommends plugging in.   You can set how full it will charge to
> with the phone app, but the LFP batteries you are getting will let you
> leave that at 100% without impacting performance of the batteries.   You
> will like the phone app it has a lot of features.   I figured out that you
> can create an email alias and have both your and your wifes phone use that
> to log in with full features instead of having a superior and inferior
> account.
>
> On 5/26/22 2:31 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> With the Leaf, I have always plugged it in when I got to work, or in one
> case where I had a long commute, both at work and at home.  Never had a
> battery problem.  Except during really cold weather but all Leafs have that
> problem.
>
> Looking forward to the heated battery.  Not understanding if I should not
> charge the Tesla every day as my daily commute is about 14 miles RT.  I
> like having it topped up every day so that I can go wherever I want.  But
> if that is hard on the battery I will have to change the way I charge.
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 3:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>
> If you're not looking at the exterior with a microscope, you'll be VERY
> happy with your M3 over the Leaf. It's faster, more range, bigger, and more
> fun. The infotainment is awesome too.
>
> Let us know your review of the car once you get it. Their charger network
> is the largest in the world too so road trips are quite easy even with
> lower range. You have the smaller battery in that model so charge time will
> be under 20 minutes to add 70-80% of the total capacity on each charge. You
> should not charge to 100% unless you absolutely need that range to get to
> the next charger. I recommend only charging to 80% on road trips to keep
> the charge times down. Like any battery, the charge rate decreases the
> closer you get to 100%. It drops pretty quick after 80% so trips can be
> made faster if you charge from 10% to 80% than if you charge from 40% to
> 100% for example.
>
> For your daily charging at home, they recommend no more than 90% full to
> maintain the range of your battery. If you charge more than that, plan on
> driving the car within a couple hours so your car doesn't sit charged above
> 90% for an extended period of time.
>
> But if you ordered the RWD small battery version, I think you get the LFP
> battery which means you can charge to 100% with no concerns about hurting
> the battery. The link below will help you determine if you have the LFP
> battery. If you do, you can charge to 100% at home but you do not need to
> do so on road trips using superchargers because it takes too long to hit
> 100%. Just charge until you have enough range to reach your next stop or
> destination. Also download Plugshare and you can find Level 2 chargers all
> around the country that aren't listed in the Tesla map. Many are free so
> you can find spots like restaurants or hotels that offer free charging.
>
>
> https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_jo/GUID-7FE78D73-0A17-47C4-B21B-54F641FFAEF4.html
>
> On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 2:43 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I am not terribly anal for fit and finish issues.  A car is a tool, not a
>> trophy.  It is an expense, not an investment.  A tesla is an extravagance,
>> not a need.  But I su

Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

e factories ramp up.
>>
>> On 5/25/22 5:04 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Glad that shit is over. You’ll be happy with your Tesla, our Model Y is
>> is 2 years old today and its been a great experience. The wife’s car and I
>> still have the gas guzzling 911!
>>
>> Peace out.
>>
>> On May 25, 2022, at 6:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> Model 3  They predict Sept to December delivery.  $46K  375 mile range I
>> think.  I really like the cruise control.  It does lane keeping so I really
>> don’t see a use for an autopilot.
>>
>> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2022 4:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>
>> Which Tesla did you go for? What are they saying for lead time?
>>
>>
>> On May 25, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, I started it.
>>
>> Sometimes it is amusing to watch the Jaime and Steve show.  Ken and Lewis
>> used to join in too but they couldn’t take it anymore.  But we do have the
>> OT in the subject line so you can filter this kind of crap out.
>>
>> But yeah, I think we have all vented now, and trolled the guys that need
>> trolling.  Steve and Jaime got to make their hyperbolic comments.
>>
>> So it is now dead until Lent is over.  Next year’s lent.
>>
>> BTW everyone, I ordered a Tesla.  My 4th Leaf lease is coming due in July
>> so I took the leap.  Did a test drive today and really loved it.  I loved
>> the last 10 years of Leafs too but man this is a quantum leap of enjoyment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>


-- 
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www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

Model 3 and Y reliability is very good. Build quality on exterior varies.
Some cars are perfect and others have some issues if you look close. I can
also go to the lot of any other car brand and find similar issues. The
exception may be Toyota which seems to have very high build quality. I
never had any functional issues with my model 3 that prevented me from
driving it. There were some paint issues that they corrected. Any warranty
issue I had was covered just fine. Tesla is 8-10 years ahead of other EV
vehicles in terms of reliability and technical capabilites.

Chuck, I'm not sure which model 3 you ordered but the single motor RWD
starts at $47k with 272 miles of range. The dual motor long range is $56k
with 358 miles of range. This is with the recent price increase they had a
few weeks ago. If you ordered before that, your price is probably 3500
less.

On Thu, May 26, 2022, 12:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Tesla's in general do not have a stellar reputation for "reliability" or
> build quality. That said, the M3 scores high, followed relatively closely
> by the MY. The two share 80% of their components.
>
> If you drill down on the reliability complaints, it is often to do with
> niggling little things like door handles and retracting rear view mirrors
> and the like. The MX is horrible for the X-wing doors. There are also
> on-and-off issues with build quality (except for the ones made in China).
> They have been getting steadily better, and the really new ones I've seen
> look almost perfect WRT fit and finish.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/26/2022 10:11 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Is this coming from a Tesla owner?
>
> Tesla owners I know don’t say anything bad about the car or company.
>
> *From:* Ryan Ray
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2022 10:45 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>
> Are you not concerned at all regarding build quality or longevity with a
> company that hasn't been forthright about existing issues, poor warranty
> experiences, and don't seem to generally care about their customer service
> or customer in general?
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2022 at 5:47 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I am starting to have second thoughts, maybe try to buy a used one... I
>> have some time to cancel this order...  I am a cheap bugger.  This might be
>> the last car I ever buy, so maybe I do want the new one?
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2022 6:28 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>
>> We will be coming on the end of our Model 3 lease in September, which,
>> after so many delivery date changes ( one of which would have been three
>> months ago! ) corresponds to the delivery date of the Model Y.   Getting
>> into and out of the 3 was just too much for these knees, which are now
>> being replaced.   We have really enjoyed all of the Model 3 features and I
>> think the full autopilot is just another Musk Troll that fanboys are
>> willing to throw money at.   I am seriously tempted to flip it, if the
>> prices for used stay this high.  $20K over our price would be hard to
>> refuse, with the likely reduction in lead times in the next year or so as
>> the factories ramp up.
>>
>> On 5/25/22 5:04 PM, Tim Hardy wrote:
>>
>> Glad that shit is over. You’ll be happy with your Tesla, our Model Y is
>> is 2 years old today and its been a great experience. The wife’s car and I
>> still have the gas guzzling 911!
>>
>> Peace out.
>>
>> On May 25, 2022, at 6:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> Model 3  They predict Sept to December delivery.  $46K  375 mile range I
>> think.  I really like the cruise control.  It does lane keeping so I really
>> don’t see a use for an autopilot.
>>
>> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2022 4:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>>
>> Which Tesla did you go for? What are they saying for lead time?
>>
>>
>> On May 25, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>>
>> Sorry, I started it.
>>
>> Sometimes it is amusing to watch the Jaime and Steve show.  Ken and Lewis
>> used to join in too but they couldn’t take it anymore.  But we do have the
>> OT in the subject line so you can filter this kind of crap out.
>>
>> But yeah, I think we have all vented now, and trolled the guys that need
>> trolling.  Steve and Jaime got to make their hyperbolic comments.
>>
>> So it is now dead until Lent is over.  Next year’s lent.
>>
>> BTW everyone, I ordered a Tesla.  My 4th Leaf lease is coming due in July
>> so I took the leap.  Did a test drive today and really loved it.  I loved
>> the last 10 years of Leafs too but man this is a quantum leap of enjoyment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] LENT

[Darin Steffl]

I've had a Model 3 since September 2018 and loved it to death. So much so
that I ordered a Model S Long Range last June and just got it 2 weeks ago.
I traded in my M3 at Tesla and they gave me $47,100 for it with 71k miles
and nearly 4 years old. Less than a private sale but still good for
trade-in plus I saved an extra $3k on sales tax by trading. It's even more
luxurious, comfy, and faster than the M3. I ordered when it was $80k base
last June and it had 4 price increases of $5k each so the base is now $100k
for my car. I was locked in to my original $80k price thankfully but these
price increases sure help my resale value if I ever want to sell it.

My brother also ordered a M3 Long Range last year and took delivery in
March. He's in love with it too! Best cars we've ever driven. It's hard to
go back to a gas vehicle like my truck or if I drive my dad's 4-cylinder
Camry sometimes. Gas vehicles feel so slow and dead after driving EVs.

Tesla software is amazing and smooth to use. I have FSD Beta and it
continues to get better with every release. I have no doubt that Tesla will
have full autonomous driving figured out in the next 1-3 years. Their
supercharger network continues to grow at a rapid pace and I no longer have
any range anxiety.

On Thu, May 26, 2022 at 11:46 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Around Santa Clara Valley, and the peninsula around here, you can't swing
> a cat without hitting a Tesla. We've made a couple of trips over Pacheco
> Pass, and we have seen a couple dozen car haulers full of Teslas. We have
> cousins, and several friends with them, and I only know one guy who was not
> happy with his (a Model X).
>
> I don't think you will get a good deal with a used one, and getting a
> recent model will probably get you the mega-stamped rear frame/body
> component.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 5/26/2022 8:49 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
>
> We're by a UP Auto-Train yard.  The only think coming out of it right now
> is Tesla's.  Truck loads and Truck loads of Telsas.  I would say every time
> I'm on the thoughfare that feeds to it, I see between 3-4 auto haulers of
> Teslas heading for the toll road.  So they must be shipping alot.
>
> Except for the one day where there was a whole line of Tesla's being
> driven.  No plates or tags, probably 10 of them, and a 15 passenger van in
> the lead.  Someone must have needed a delivery and there were no trucks
> available.I thought it was interesting that every single one of the
> drivers was talking on their cellphone (Holding up to their ear, and we're
> a handsfree state).  "Hey man, You'll never guess, I'm driving a Tesla, and
> getting paid for it!"
>
> On 5/25/2022 5:35 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> Model 3  They predict Sept to December delivery.  $46K  375 mile range I
> think.  I really like the cruise control.  It does lane keeping so I really
> don’t see a use for an autopilot.
>
> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2022 4:31 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] LENT
>
> Which Tesla did you go for? What are they saying for lead time?
>
>
> On May 25, 2022, at 4:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Sorry, I started it.
>
> Sometimes it is amusing to watch the Jaime and Steve show.  Ken and Lewis
> used to join in too but they couldn’t take it anymore.  But we do have the
> OT in the subject line so you can filter this kind of crap out.
>
> But yeah, I think we have all vented now, and trolled the guys that need
> trolling.  Steve and Jaime got to make their hyperbolic comments.
>
> So it is now dead until Lent is over.  Next year’s lent.
>
> BTW everyone, I ordered a Tesla.  My 4th Leaf lease is coming due in July
> so I took the leap.  Did a test drive today and really loved it.  I loved
> the last 10 years of Leafs too but man this is a quantum leap of enjoyment.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political

[Darin Steffl]

t moderate and speak up about what we like and don't like, they
are likely to listen. Reach out to your politicians and tell them what you
want them to do if you don't agree with their platform.

On Tue, May 24, 2022, 11:25 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Fuck our piece of shit governor,  Trumpabbott and all his gun loving
> supporters...
> Fuck his press release...
> These pieces of shit...are supposed to be at an NRA event next week
> Trumputinsky,  Trumpabbott and Ted Cancun Cruzado...fuck them to hell
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2022, 6:34 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> 18 more children shot and killed. Fuck thoughts and prayers from the
>> right. These damn Republicans MUST agree to some sort of sensible gun
>> control.
>>
>> Guns need to be hard to purchase, not easy. Red flag laws need to be
>> passed. Background checks for any and all purchases, no exceptions.
>>
>> Another shooting, more dead children and the Republicans want to do
>> nothing. They'll gladly keep letting Americans die in order to keep gun
>> nuts happy. Something over 60% of Americans support stricter gun control.
>>
>> Republicans continue to be the pro-death party. How embarrassing and
>> shameful!! If you vote republican, start reaching out to your politicians
>> and ask them to fucking do something!! This is a goddamn joke. These mass
>> shootings only happen in America.
>>
>> I support if you're conservative but you must voice your opinion if your
>> party keeps messing up. Tell them to take action!
>>
>> On Mon, May 23, 2022, 2:40 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Figuratively inside the lines.
>>>
>>> [image: Color Within the Lines - Album by Oscar Ortega | Spotify]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2022 1:56 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ...you mean outside the lines?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 1:47 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> NYDOT can be pretty accommodating, but they definitely have a lot of
>>> rules and they do want you to color inside the lines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2022 1:37 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Once we had to cut a road with an excavator.  Then we had to do
>>> compacted fill in lifts, the asphalt on the top had to be milled down on
>>> both sides so the profile of the patch formed a T shape.  We used the hot
>>> sticky apshalt oil in a sprayer to spray down the T patch prior to dumping
>>> hot mix on it and compacting.  The guy running the sprayer was almost empty
>>> so he sprayed some of the gravel on the edges of the road surface in the
>>> gravel empty his machine.  Not sure why he wanted to empty it as normally
>>> they just shut off the burner and pump and add more the next day.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An inspector came out and made us do defcon 1 full hazmat clean up job
>>> where he emptied his sprayer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Then the next year they chip sealed that road.  That involves laying
>>> down rock chips and spraying the whole road and a portion of the shoulder
>>> with the exact same hot sticky asphalt oil mix we got in trouble for the
>>> year before.  Same inspector was there.  I got out and asked why UDOT can
>>> do it and we cannot, is the UDOT hot asphalt oil less hazardous.  He told
>>> me to get off his work site or I would be arrested.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2022 9:56 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> but it's organic.
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 5/23/2022 8:05 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> “kile (with an I not a Y and woke parents) doesn't believe asphalt and
>>> concrete are environmentally friendly”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well an asphalt road is kind of like a really long oil spill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.co

Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political

[Darin Steffl]

18 more children shot and killed. Fuck thoughts and prayers from the right.
These damn Republicans MUST agree to some sort of sensible gun control.

Guns need to be hard to purchase, not easy. Red flag laws need to be
passed. Background checks for any and all purchases, no exceptions.

Another shooting, more dead children and the Republicans want to do
nothing. They'll gladly keep letting Americans die in order to keep gun
nuts happy. Something over 60% of Americans support stricter gun control.

Republicans continue to be the pro-death party. How embarrassing and
shameful!! If you vote republican, start reaching out to your politicians
and ask them to fucking do something!! This is a goddamn joke. These mass
shootings only happen in America.

I support if you're conservative but you must voice your opinion if your
party keeps messing up. Tell them to take action!

On Mon, May 23, 2022, 2:40 PM  wrote:

> Figuratively inside the lines.
>
> [image: Color Within the Lines - Album by Oscar Ortega | Spotify]
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2022 1:56 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
>
> ...you mean outside the lines?
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 1:47 PM  wrote:
>
> NYDOT can be pretty accommodating, but they definitely have a lot of rules
> and they do want you to color inside the lines.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2022 1:37 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
>
> Once we had to cut a road with an excavator.  Then we had to do compacted
> fill in lifts, the asphalt on the top had to be milled down on both sides
> so the profile of the patch formed a T shape.  We used the hot sticky
> apshalt oil in a sprayer to spray down the T patch prior to dumping hot mix
> on it and compacting.  The guy running the sprayer was almost empty so he
> sprayed some of the gravel on the edges of the road surface in the gravel
> empty his machine.  Not sure why he wanted to empty it as normally they
> just shut off the burner and pump and add more the next day.
>
>
>
> An inspector came out and made us do defcon 1 full hazmat clean up job
> where he emptied his sprayer.
>
>
>
> Then the next year they chip sealed that road.  That involves laying down
> rock chips and spraying the whole road and a portion of the shoulder with
> the exact same hot sticky asphalt oil mix we got in trouble for the year
> before.  Same inspector was there.  I got out and asked why UDOT can do it
> and we cannot, is the UDOT hot asphalt oil less hazardous.  He told me to
> get off his work site or I would be arrested.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Monday, May 23, 2022 9:56 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
>
> but it's organic.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 5/23/2022 8:05 AM, dmmoff...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> “kile (with an I not a Y and woke parents) doesn't believe asphalt and
> concrete are environmentally friendly”
>
>
>
> Well an asphalt road is kind of like a really long oil spill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 21, 2022 2:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
>
> Most libertarians I know are just crybabies. They want the benefits of
> governance without the costs. In a libertarian society to have a 100 mile
> road, you would destroy your car every trip because there would be no
> single governing body to maintain it in a consistent manner. Sure we have
> road issues now, but every property line you cross would be a new road. And
> if john at mile 6 like cobblestone, its cobblestone, and you know keith at
> mile 23 is gonna charge a 42 dollar toll, kile (with an I not a Y and woke
> parents) doesn't believe asphalt and concrete are environmentally friendly,
> so mile 36 is made of soy and has long since been eaten by animals, paul at
> mile 52 is a dick and stores all his nails on his road, then Greg up at
> mile 99 he doesn't like people so he put boulders across his mile.
>
> These fools are just kid brains who want no government of someone else's,
> they want their government based on their current whim. Most of their
> arguments break down after a little long term logic.
>
>
>
> I also forgot to mention, just like wiping your ass, it's best to not push
> too hard on a 2022 liberal, you'll just end up pushing through to a
> fingerful of shit.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2022, 12:53 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> Yeah the libertarian platform I agree with, the Koch brothers and the
> (Ron/Rand) Paul family are too far out there in whackadoodle land for me.
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 7:02 AM  wrote:
>
> I read the Libertarian part platform and thought I could be on board.  I
> registered as Libertarian and 

Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political

[Darin Steffl]

I just want more compromise between the two major parties. If Dems could
learn to spend less and Republicans would stop attacking marginalized
people, we'd have a fairly normal government.

I'm also not a fan of how easy it is to buy guns. I know plenty of far
right nut jobs that make me nervous knowing they have a stockpile of guns
and ammo. The majority of mass shootings in the US are committed by white
males and most of them lean far right. I don't see many liberals out there
committing mass shootings.

It should be harder to buy a gun than to buy a car, get a license, adopt a
child, get a loan, become a cop, etc. Everyone should have extensive
training with target shooting and a psych eval. If anyone threatens
violence verbally or in writing, they should immediately lose the right to
possess a firearm. Make it possible but difficult to own guns and the
violence will decrease. Destroy guns that are found during crimes, offer
buyback programs, etc to start dwindling the supply. Strict gun control
works in other countries and it can work here too.

How many more people need to keep dying before the "pro-life" party gets
off their ass and does something about it?! If they claim it's a mental
health problem, then they should support psych evals in order to own
firearms.

On Thu, May 19, 2022, 6:51 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Seems like an impossible problem.  But if you read news accounts from 200
> years ago, horrible negative campaigning and actual fist fights were normal
> in political races.
>
> I vote no whackadoodles.
>
> *From:* Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 19, 2022 5:32 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
> Unfortunately most of the people identifying as libertarians these days
> (at least the high profile ones) are whackadoodle republicans.
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 6:21 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying Lauren Bobert is a libertarian, she is
>> FAR from it.  What I meant was when the options are:
>>
>> Moderate democrat
>> Whackadoodle republican (Bobert)
>> Libertarian
>>
>> My 1st choice would be libertarian,
>> 2nd choice would be moderate democrat (they do exist)
>> 3rd choice is NOT the whackadoodle
>>
>> In CO 35-40% of voters are republican, 35-40% democrat and 20-30%
>> independent
>>
>> If I don’t vote for the democrat and vote for the libertarian there’s
>> enough republicans that my vote becomes a “throwaway” vote and i instead
>> inadvertently help the whackadoodle get elected.  Which is the WORST
>> possible outcome.
>>
>> Ranked choice voting would solve this but that’s a discussion and a can
>> of worms for another thread/day lol.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 4:47 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, the nutjobs ruined that designation. I used to partially identify
>>> as libertarian, I don't do that anymore.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 19, 2022, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
 Here in ColoRADo voting libertarian ends up getting people like Lauren
 Bobert elected lol :-/

 On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 9:15 AM Josh Luthman <
 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

> It's not a throwaway vote  You have to vote libertarian if you
> want a libertarian!
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 11:06 AM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> 
>>
>> Mmmkay everyone, all you “woke” people are tried and cranky, y’all
>> need to go back to bed and get some rest.
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>> (For the record I’m registered independent , socially liberal,
>> fiscally conservative, I would vote libertarian if it wasn’t a throwaway
>> vote)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 8:53 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, maybe their thin skin needs some toughening up.  Everyone
>>> could use some more grit.
>>>
>>> In my experience, those that feel compelled to “call out” people
>>> never affect positive change.  And frequently they harm themselves in 
>>> the
>>> trying.  Becoming toxic themselves to those they are trying to
>>> shame/expose/coerce/educate/put down.
>>>
>>> What good does it do to tell some red necked construction worker
>>> that he is being racist?  I just avoid those with views I abhor.  And I 
>>> try
>>> to teach by example.  But I never call anyone out.  At work, if they 
>>> are my
>>> employee, I address the concern in private.  If they don’t change I fire
>>> them.
>>>
>>> Social justice warriors are idiots in my opinion.  They invent a
>>> noble cause with which to enshroud themselves while acting out in 
>>> socially
>>> impolitic ways, a good reason, in their mind,  to be an anarchist.  
>>> Look at
>>> antifa and proud boys.
>>>
>>> Exact same people, doing the exact same things, for the exact same
>>> reasons.  The ONLY difference is some 

Re: [AFMUG] OT mildly political

[Darin Steffl]

like DeSantis attacking Doctors, schools, LGBT people
that are firing up the left to fight against injustices. While the right
was fighting because they didn't like a cloth mask or attempting a coup
because they don't like the election results, the left are fighting for
more noble causes that deserve our energy like: fighting racism, protecting
women's rights, protecting LGBT people, protecting the environment,
healthcare, free speech, our Democracy.

In my mind as a 31 year old raised in a republican area but taught to find
the truth, think critically, have strong morals, there's no way the
Republican party has my vote unless they become more moderate very quickly.
They're the fear mongering party that lies every day and gets away with it.
Their claims can be proven wrong and I like facts, not opinions. This does
NOT mean I agree with every Democrat policy. I don't think any student debt
should be forgiven, I don't think the govt should have spent as much as
they did on COVID money under Trump or Biden. I agree with many things but
certainly not all. I actively reach out to Democrat politicians to let them
know when I think they need to chill out and move more to the middle. I
wish Republican voters would do the same for people they vote for.

I'm sorry if your kids are treating you differently than you treated your
elders. I don't know what topics of conversation come up that make them
feel negative towards you at times but maybe think through if your beliefs
or words attack/affect marginalized people in a bad way. It's easy to be a
good person just by treating everyone equally. I do that so I assume
everyone is good until they prove otherwise. There's good and bad people of
all racers, genders, sexes, etc so why would I hate anyone different than
me by default like republicans seem to do too often.

On Wed, May 18, 2022 at 8:10 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Public school systems…….
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 18, 2022 5:11 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT mildly political
>
>
>
> Woke, broke, in therapy and crazy unhappy.
>
>
>
> That is how I would describe some of my kids.
>
>
>
> The alt right unwoke ones seem to have money and happiness.
>
>
>
> Never expected I would not be able to speak my mind at family dinners just
> to be able to still see some of my kids.
>
> Feel like I was convicted in absentia, thrown in the hole for a lifetime
> sentence, but taken out of solitary confinement now and then at their whims
> just so they could claim to have compassion on me for a half hour walk in
> the woods.  Maybe longer if I pay for dinner.
>
>
>
> Odd times
>
> I loved my parents and grandparents.
>
> Never felt they had to earn it.
>
> Never would have thought of condemning them for the things they said.
>
>
>
> Funny, I have a sister that lives 1000 miles from me.  Our families were
> separate all while the kids were growing.
>
> But some of hers have done the same things to her.  Using the exact same
> vernacular.
>
>
>
> Must have something to do with energy drinks I think.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
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AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political VAX

[Darin Steffl]

Anti-vaxers, anti-maskers, covid hoax believers are all ignorant to actual
data unfortunately. They believe science is fake, rigged, and that somehow
their favorite far right TV personalities or podcast hosts are smarter than
Doctors and Scientists.

Greenie here and I know more than a few people who have had Covid 2-3 times
and they screamed the last 2 years that they wouldn't get Covid because
they had natural immunity. How'd that turn out for them?!?! Did they admit
they were wrong? Of course not because they'd rather dig their heels in and
be wrong 10x worse than admit fault and do the right thing.

On Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 11:05 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> Utah.
> Yeah, you don’t need no stinking vax.
> (Orange no vax, blue vax, green boosted)
>
> I might even go to a movie for the first time in 2 years.  But I am a
> greenie...
>
> [image: image]
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Darin Steffl
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Re: [AFMUG] POTS line over IP network?

[Darin Steffl]

It's cheaper than I thought. It's only $20 plus tax for everything included
on Verizon. I'm sure this is cheaper than their current land-line and
includes more features and unlimited long distance.

No need to worry about running new cable or converting to voip then back to
POTS.

If Verizon says they can port their current land-line number, I'd go this
route.

On Sun, Mar 6, 2022, 1:18 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> Why not just port it to Verizon home phone or AT? They sell cellular
> base stations that provide land-line service with regular RJ-11 jacks.
> Caller ID, unlimited long distance all included for $24.99 plus some taxes.
> Call it $30 all-in for a land-line replacement on their cell networks. Call
> quality is great and runs as VOLTE.
>
> https://www.verizon.com/home-office-solutions/wireless-home-phone-lvp2/
>
> I have some customers using it and works fine.
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022, 5:51 PM Craig Baird  wrote:
>
>> 435-644
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 3:07 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> What's the NPA-NXX?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Craig Baird" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, March 4, 2022 9:52:24 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] POTS line over IP network?
>>>
>>> Also, regarding just going with VOIP, that was my first thought.
>>> However, I have yet to find a VOIP provider that can port our small town's
>>> local numbers.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 7:25 AM Carl Peterson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1) If you have an ethernet network in place couldn't you just steal a
>>>> pair?
>>>> 2) Why bother with converting POTs ->IP -> POTS?  Just get rid of the
>>>> pots line and replace it with a VOIP line.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good cordless phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 6:09 PM, Darin Steffl 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Don't touch this. It'll be a support disaster and waste of your time.
>>>>> Have them contact the telco to run a new cable on the outside or bury it 
>>>>> to
>>>>> that restaurant. Whatever doesn't involve you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 1:00 PM Daniel White  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've not personally done this, but I'd be a Grandstream HT801 for the
>>>>>> FXS port and a Grandstream HT813 for the FXO port would work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This document outlines the config -
>>>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/Peering_HT8XX_with_HT813.pdf?hsLang=en
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: photograph]
>>>>>> Daniel White
>>>>>> Co-Founder
>>>>>> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
>>>>>> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>>> March 3, 2022 at 11:06
>>>>>> I have done it with FXS to FXO ATAs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:55 AM
>>>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POTS line over IP network?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah.  The Linksys/Sipura SPA equipment

Re: [AFMUG] POTS line over IP network?

[Darin Steffl]

Why not just port it to Verizon home phone or AT? They sell cellular base
stations that provide land-line service with regular RJ-11 jacks. Caller
ID, unlimited long distance all included for $24.99 plus some taxes. Call
it $30 all-in for a land-line replacement on their cell networks. Call
quality is great and runs as VOLTE.

https://www.verizon.com/home-office-solutions/wireless-home-phone-lvp2/

I have some customers using it and works fine.

On Sat, Mar 5, 2022, 5:51 PM Craig Baird  wrote:

> 435-644
>
> Craig
>
> On Sat, Mar 5, 2022 at 3:07 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> What's the NPA-NXX?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Craig Baird" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, March 4, 2022 9:52:24 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] POTS line over IP network?
>>
>> Also, regarding just going with VOIP, that was my first thought. However,
>> I have yet to find a VOIP provider that can port our small town's local
>> numbers.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2022 at 7:25 AM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 1) If you have an ethernet network in place couldn't you just steal a
>>> pair?
>>> 2) Why bother with converting POTs ->IP -> POTS?  Just get rid of the
>>> pots line and replace it with a VOIP line.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:37 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good cordless phone.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 3, 2022, at 6:09 PM, Darin Steffl 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Don't touch this. It'll be a support disaster and waste of your time.
>>>> Have them contact the telco to run a new cable on the outside or bury it to
>>>> that restaurant. Whatever doesn't involve you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022, 1:00 PM Daniel White  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've not personally done this, but I'd be a Grandstream HT801 for the
>>>>> FXS port and a Grandstream HT813 for the FXO port would work.
>>>>>
>>>>> This document outlines the config -
>>>>> https://www.grandstream.com/hubfs/Product_Documentation/Peering_HT8XX_with_HT813.pdf?hsLang=en
>>>>>
>>>>> [image: photograph]
>>>>> Daniel White
>>>>> Co-Founder
>>>>> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
>>>>> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck McCown via AF 
>>>>> March 3, 2022 at 11:06
>>>>> I have done it with FXS to FXO ATAs.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* dmmoff...@gmail.com
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 3, 2022 10:55 AM
>>>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] POTS line over IP network?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah.  The Linksys/Sipura SPA equipment could do that.  You’d get a
>>>>> device with the FXO port on one end (I think SPA3000) and then an ATA at
>>>>> the other end.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t think that feature set survived the transition to Cisco…..I’m
>>>>> afraid I don’t know the modern equivalent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Adtran Total Access can do that too, but that’s an expensive solution
>>>>> for a gift shop.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Asterisk boxes with an FXO card on one end and FXS card on the
>>>>> other…..a little creativity with the dialplan and you’re off to the races.
>>>>> That might be cheap enough, but this may not be pra

Re: [AFMUG] EPMP Options

[Darin Steffl]

We do Loco AC for site p2p links. Very cheap and pleasant looking. Cambium
for most of our ptmp stuff.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022, 5:49 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Gotcha.  We still do Nanostations for that kind of job.  Way cheaper and
> they're great at PTP.
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 5:24 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>
>> I was using the -16's for links from a barn to the house, or linking a
>> couple shop buildings together, so a couple hundred feet.  The 13 will
>> still probably work just fine for that.  All feed radios are the -25,
>> unless the install is under a mile.
>>
>> On 2/24/2022 3:30 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> Only 25db dishes here.  But we're rural and the amount of -60 or hotter
>> signals is <5%.  ATPC takes care of the uplink.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 3:02 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We only use the 25db dishes as well. We didn't find any need for the
>>> small gain clients when most our shots are 1-10 miles.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022, 1:52 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> we settled on just not using anything but the 25. We ran up on issues
>>>> where the 16 was used with a small mount that didnt work and then wed have
>>>> to put new holes in structures for a more robust mount. maintaining extra
>>>> inventory was a pain, we just watch rx power on close up installs. but it
>>>> leaves the door open for use of lower power dfs channels if needed
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:55 PM Mathew Howard < 
>>>> mhoward...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The 300-19 is a lot bigger, we rarely use them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I generally prefer to just go straight to a 300-25 if it needs more
>>>>> than a 300-13.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:50 PM Nate Burke < 
>>>>> n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My distributor said that EPMP Force 300-16 radios won't be in until
>>>>>> sometime in September, it's going to make for a rough summer.  How do
>>>>>> the 300-19's compare?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] EPMP Options

[Darin Steffl]

We only use the 25db dishes as well. We didn't find any need for the small
gain clients when most our shots are 1-10 miles.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2022, 1:52 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> we settled on just not using anything but the 25. We ran up on issues
> where the 16 was used with a small mount that didnt work and then wed have
> to put new holes in structures for a more robust mount. maintaining extra
> inventory was a pain, we just watch rx power on close up installs. but it
> leaves the door open for use of lower power dfs channels if needed
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:55 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> The 300-19 is a lot bigger, we rarely use them.
>>
>> I generally prefer to just go straight to a 300-25 if it needs more than
>> a 300-13.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 12:50 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
>>
>>> My distributor said that EPMP Force 300-16 radios won't be in until
>>> sometime in September, it's going to make for a rough summer.  How do
>>> the 300-19's compare?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent

[Darin Steffl]

That's a killer deal. When you add HE later, both combined will still be
cheaper than one 10G from other providers like Telia, Lumen, Windstream,
Zayo, etc.

I'd rather have two 10G circuits from Cogent and HE than only one 10G from
any other provider.

On Sun, Jan 23, 2022, 8:31 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> 10g 12 months $650
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 23, 2022, at 7:09 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> 
> I think they will always match one another because they are fierce
> competitors, what was the final price and term?
>
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2022, 6:58 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> The default for any carrier is to send the traffic where you get paid vs
>> those that you don't.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Dennis Burgess" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Sunday, January 23, 2022 8:06:31 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>>
>> Ya, like HE always preferring paid peers over free.  That has came up a
>> few times.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Justin Wilson
>> (Lists)
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 22, 2022 10:44 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>>
>>
>>
>> As with anything there are good and bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> Both do some heavy traffic manipulation. Cogent is not very open-internet
>> friendly.  They do not peer with folks so their entire network is pay to
>> peer.  This can result in some congestion at major points. Some of the
>> major de-peering events have been due to AT and others de-peering with
>> cogent because of Cogent wanting money to peer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of Hurricane’s network is either Telia Upstream or peering.  This
>> can result in some issues as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no such thing as a perfect backbone/upstream/transit provider.
>> They all have issues.  What you want it diversity.  When talking to them
>> ask about their routes in and out of your location.  How much capacity do
>> they have? Are they taking the same routes as everyone else?
>>
>>
>>
>> Many of the xISPs I see do a blend of Cogent, Hurricane and peering on an
>> IX or two. If they want to add some extra diversity they can add in an
>> AT, Verizon, or other ILEC.  With peering they typically don’t need to as
>> a lot o the traffic gets shoved off to a good peering fabric.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Justin Wilson
>> j...@mtin.net
>>
>> —
>> https://j2sw.com
>> 
>> (AS399332)
>>
>> https://blog.j2sw.com
>> 
>> - Podcast and Blog
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent

[Darin Steffl]

Besides price, are there other reasons you'd pick cogent over HE?

I assume HE will match cogent price?

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022, 3:19 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Price
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 1:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>
> Why Cogent first instead of HE?
>
> HE's network is way bigger and better connected than Cogent. They peer
> more than any other transit provider.
>
> I guess I'm interested in learning more about what your criteria is in
> picking one if the price is the same.
>
> I'm glad to see them work down price and keep beating the other.
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 1:56 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> No, but they can get there.
>> I will probably go with Cogent first then add HE later.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 12:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>>
>> Remember that it's only a steal if it gets you what you want. Neither HE
>> nor Cogent have a full view of the Internet.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Cc: *ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 21, 2022 1:41:29 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>>
>> Seems like only a couple of years ago that 1G for $500 was a steal.
>> I remember selling 1G for $13K about 8 years ago.
>>
>> Chuck McCown
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503
>> 435-830-4306 cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>>
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 12:02 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>>
>> Now we are down to $650
>>
>> I ought to do a zoom call with both of them and do it auction style.
>> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 11:57 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>>
>> I have them in a price war right now.  Not sure which to go with now.  We
>> are down to $670/10G  free install free BGP.
>> Chuck McCown
>> McCown Technology Corporation
>> 8401 N Commerce Dr
>> Lake Point, Utah 84074
>> 801-250-9503
>> 435-830-4306 cell
>> www.mccowntech.com
>> www.microtrench-blades.com
>> www.terabitnetworks.com
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>
> --
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent

[Darin Steffl]

Why Cogent first instead of HE?

HE's network is way bigger and better connected than Cogent. They peer more
than any other transit provider.

I guess I'm interested in learning more about what your criteria is in
picking one if the price is the same.

I'm glad to see them work down price and keep beating the other.

On Fri, Jan 21, 2022 at 1:56 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> No, but they can get there.
> I will probably go with Cogent first then add HE later.
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 12:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>
> Remember that it's only a steal if it gets you what you want. Neither HE
> nor Cogent have a full view of the Internet.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Cc: *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 21, 2022 1:41:29 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>
> Seems like only a couple of years ago that 1G for $500 was a steal.
> I remember selling 1G for $13K about 8 years ago.
>
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 12:02 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>
> Now we are down to $650
>
> I ought to do a zoom call with both of them and do it auction style.
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, January 21, 2022 11:57 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] HE vs Cogent
>
> I have them in a price war right now.  Not sure which to go with now.  We
> are down to $670/10G  free install free BGP.
> Chuck McCown
> McCown Technology Corporation
> 8401 N Commerce Dr
> Lake Point, Utah 84074
> 801-250-9503
> 435-830-4306 cell
> www.mccowntech.com
> www.microtrench-blades.com
> www.terabitnetworks.com
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>


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Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Darin Steffl]

sa...@he.net
ma...@he.net

Either of those two emails will do the trick. They're a very small company
by employee count so you'll only ever deal with one or two people in sales.

It's amazing how large their network is but they're a small company with
little overhead.

Noc emails and calls are answered quickly too if you have trouble. If I
have an emergency, I'll email n...@he.net first to generate a ticket then
call them with the ticket number to get immediate support. Otherwise email
responses are usually 10 mins or less. They always answer calls in less
than 60 seconds.

We have 10G for $1,000 on a 5-year contract that we signed 4 years ago I
believe. I know their pricing is better than that today depending on which
POP.

On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:43 AM Chuck McCown via AF 
wrote:

> You have a sales rep I can contact?
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2022 9:24 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing
>
> HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start
> with one of the two, I'd go with HE first.
>
> We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt
> Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.
>
> You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.
>
> Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is
> more dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at
> as many IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested
> ports.
> http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf
> https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map
>
> HE is the real winner for performance and cost.
>
> https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants
> On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1
> for number of IX's they're on.
>
> https://bgp.he.net/report/peers
> HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here
> too. #2 is Cogent.
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He
>> will probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>>> > I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable
>>> on
>>> > each.
>>>
>>> Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is
>>> higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
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>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>


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Minnesota WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] DIA Pricing

[Darin Steffl]

HE has a better network and support than Cogent. If you can only start with
one of the two, I'd go with HE first.

We love their network, sales, and support. If you're picking it up in Salt
Lake, they have 5 paths out vs. Cogent's 3 paths.

You'll find HE performs better latency wise with better path.

Please take a look at both of their network maps and you'll see how HE is
more dense with more POP's, and more paths. They also peer with everyone at
as many IX's as possible where Cogent does not which can lead to congested
ports.
http://he.net/HurricaneElectricNetworkMap.pdf
https://www.cogentco.com/en/network/network-map

HE is the real winner for performance and cost.

https://bgp.he.net/report/exchanges#_participants
On IX participation, Cogent isn't even on the TOP list at all and HE is #1
for number of IX's they're on.

https://bgp.he.net/report/peers
HE also has more BGP peers than any other network in the world. #1 here
too. #2 is Cogent.

On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:26 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> It's usually cheaper in my recent experience but not by a whole lot. He
> will probably pay a bit more than a single 10g to get 2x2g
>
> On Tue, Jan 18, 2022, 11:22 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/22 11:13 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>> > I am warming up to the idea of having two providers.  2Gig burstable on
>> > each.
>>
>> Every time I've asked about burstable in recent memoty the price is
>> higher than a fixed rate port, if offered at all.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Minnesota WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] 900mhz 450i

[Darin Steffl]

I have one brand new that we never deployed. Only tested in the office.

Please email me direct if you're interested. Thanks

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 7:49 AM  wrote:

> Trying to track down a 900mhz PMP450i AP.  Does anyone have one they can
> part with?
>
>
>
> -Adam
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Customer wants a SLA

[Darin Steffl]

If they want a 4-hour repair SLA, make sure to charge them $2,000 a month
or some crazy high number, then make the credit like 5% of MRC for every 4
hours the service is down. So let's say a fiber cut takes 8 hours to
repair. That is only a 10% credit for the month or $200. If you fix it
between 4-7 hours, it's a $100 credit or 5%.

The more stringent the SLA, the higher the monthly service should cost.

On Tue, Aug 3, 2021 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Nobody promises 4 hour to *repair*.  Maybe 4 hours to have people
> actively on site and working on it, and probably phrased as 4 hour
> *response*.
>
> An SLA shouldn't frighten anyone.  It's not saying nothing bad will ever
> happen, it's just a written commitment to what you'll try to do for them
> and then a credit for them if you don't meet your commitment.
> My advice is write it to codify whatever your company would have done for
> them anyway.  If it's likely that your staff will respond within 4 hours
> then you don't need to be afraid to promise that.
>
>
> On 8/3/2021 11:24 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
>
> I  have  a  customer  that wants a SLA.  Believe it or not this is the
> first  time  in  10  years  we have been asked for a SLA.  Anyone have
> something they want to share.
>
> They  are  asking  for  a  time to repair of 4 hours which seems a bit
> excessive   to  me.   That will be fine during business hours, but I'm
> thinking that number may need to go up during non-business hours.
>
> If I'm giving them a SLA, I want to make sure their
> is  wording  about  how  much  they will be charged if we have to do a
> truck  roll  to  fix  one of their issues.  Like plugging their router
> back in the wall.
>
> On  the plus side, they are only 15 minutes from both my house and the
> office.  So, if the shit hits the fan, we can get someone there quickly.
>
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>  Mark  mailto:m...@mailmt.com 
>
> Myakka Communicationswww.Myakka.com
>
>  --
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>


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Minnesota WiFi
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507-634-WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Darin Steffl]

Dennis,

At this point, those are want the vaccine have it and feel protected. I
believe in its effectiveness and am not afraid to go out.

The problem we keep bringing up is half of America is not vaccinated yet.
Cases are spiking, ICU beds are filling up, and deaths are increasing.

When this happens, state governments have NO CHOICE but to implement
shutdowns and mask mandates again because hospitals must have ICU beds
available for every other health emergency besides covid.

How would you feel if the ICU at your local hospital was full of covid
patients while your family gets in a car crash and there's no staff or beds
available to save you?! That's what will happen if people don't get the
vaccine.

I keep saying this to people: the people who hate covid or thinks it's a
hoax, people who are anti-vax and anti-mask are the people keeping covid
around longer by not doing anything to stop it. If they refuse to
vaccinate, mask up, social distance, or even practice proper hygiene, then
covid will be around much longer and we will have shutdowns again with
business closures and mask mandates.

So no, I think vaccinated individuals should have all the freedom to live
their life. Then unvaccinated Americans should have to pay for tests, skip
big events, and mask up when out in public for their "choice" to not
vaccinate. Every choice has consequences and being anti-vax is un-American
at this point (unless legit medical reasons prevent it in your doctor's
opinion). Do your part to stop the spread or the anti-vax people will
literally shut our country down again and the blame will be all on them.

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 7:03 AM Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> Or that other person can ware the condom since they are so afraid of it,
> or maybe they should not be out in public?
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
> *Dennis Burgess*
>
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
> Need MikroTik Cloud Management: https://cloud.linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 6:20 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>
>
>
> AIDS was / Is 100% avoidable.  COVID is like someone with AIDS spraying
> you down with their precious bodily fluids by sneezing.  People have been
> prosecuted for infecting others with AIDS.  Why not COVID?  If you don’t
> want the vax, fine but you need a full body condom if you come within 100’
> of another person.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jul 23, 2021, at 4:24 PM, David Coudron 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> There are valid reasons for deciding to take this vaccine, the shingles
> vaccine, the flu vaccine, or a myriad of other medications.   Each decision
> should be based on risk/reward of that drug and the medical condition being
> treated.   To think that you know everyone’s medical situation better than
> they do doesn’t seem very feasible and awfully presumptive.   To call them
> selfish for making a decision they believe is in their best medical
> interest seems overly judgmental. Yes, there are people are deciding
> not to take it simply because they think they shouldn’t be forced to take a
> medical treatment against their will.   You may feel that we should force
> them to take the treatment for the better good.   I doubt you would feel
> the same about mandatory castration of young men to curb overcrowding of
> the earth.   Obviously there is a line somewhere about forced treatment for
> the greater good.  I am not attempting to determine where that line is,
> only suggesting that folks have valid medical reasons for not deciding to
> take the vaccine and they shouldn’t be publicly shamed for making that
> decision.   It doesn’t seem that far fetched, but I am learning I see
> things differently than some other folks.   So be it.
>
>
>
> I love the argument that we have to get vaccinated, but we still have to
> act like the vaccine doesn’t work in order to save the human race.   Seems
> like a disconnect there.
>
>
>
> If we were really so worried about infecting others or causing harm to
> others, we would avoid all other activities that create risk for others.
> We’d never drive a car, much less have a beer and get in a car.   I doubt
> that very many of us on this list can say that.  We would never allow the
> sale of fatty foods.   We would force each and everyone to get to a body
> mass within our accepted range.   Keep in mind life is risky.   We don’t
> need to do stupid things, but being alive carries with it the risk of
> dying.We are all much more likely to die of heart disease, stroke
> related illness, or cancer than we are of Covid.   Those are just the
> facts.  Many folks make small adjustments to reduce the risk of those
> likely causes of 

Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political

[Darin Steffl]

you’d pass anyway, we
>>> >>won’t bother putting you through the approval
>>> >>process”   We don’t do that for good reason.
>>> >>
>>> >>I agree with you on the memes both ways.
>>> >>Neither approach are helping the situation.
>>>   It should be a discussion based upon the
>>> >>scientific merits of the situation.
>>>   Unfortunately both side love to poke at the
>>> >>intelligence of those that don’t agree with
>>> >>their decision.
>>> >>
>>> >>There is no way to know this for sure, but I
>>> >>wonder how many folks publicly shaming others
>>> >>for not taking the vaccine know that it is not
>>> >>FDA approved?
>>> >>
>>> >>Likely won’t change lots of folks decisions,
>>> >>nor am I suggesting it should have.   But I
>>> >>don’t think that those of us that decided to
>>> >>go ahead with the vaccination get to make
>>> >>medical decisions for those who aren’t
>>> >>comfortable with an experimental vaccine.
>>> >>
>>> >>*From:* AF 
>>> >><mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of
>>> >>*Adam Moffett
>>> >>*Sent:* Friday, July 23, 2021 2:56 PM
>>> >>*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>>> >>*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT somewhat political
>>> >>
>>> >>I'm not calling anybody stupid, but I don't
>>> >>agree with most of your list.
>>> >>
>>> >>On 7/23/2021 3:37 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>Here is what I find particularly
>>> >>challenging about suggesting that folks
>>> >>who have chosen not to take the vaccine
>>> >>are not that smart.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Folks who do that never talk about
>>> >>that fact that this is not an FDA
>>> >>approved medicine/vaccine.   I took
>>> >>the Moderna vaccine, the paperwork
>>> >>clearly stated several facts. Among
>>> >>them are:
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. This is not FDA approved.
>>> >>
>>> >>It has an emergency use authorization. FDA
>>> >>approval takes a long time, but around 90% of
>>> >>the submissions end up approved because they
>>> >>are pretty well tested by the manufacturer
>>> >>before they apply. Anybody applying for FDA
>>> >>approval already has a pretty good idea
>>> >>whether it's going to go through or not.
>>>Presumably people on a no-fly list don't
>>> >>routinely show up at the airport expecting to
>>> >>board a plane.  Presumably people don't try to
>>> >>get a CDL if they know they'll fail the drug
>>> >>test. Same idea.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>1.
>>> >> 2. This “vaccine” has not been proven
>>> >>to prevent the virus.   While we
>>> >>likely all agree that there is a
>>> >>very good likelihood that this
>>> >>“vaccine” will help prevent it, it
>>> >>is far from a proven fact.
>>> >>
>>> >>99% of people dying of Covid right now are
>>> >>un-vaccinated.  We can split hairs and say
>>> >>maybe it didn't prevent them from becoming
>>> >>infected, but it clearly prevents them from
>>> dying.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>1.
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. The argument is, “there should be no
>>> >>reason to think this vaccine isn’t
>>> >>safe since people aren’t dying from
>>> >>taking the vaccine”.
>>> >>
>>> >>I've never heard such an argument.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 1.   Vaccines are a risk/reward type of
>>> >>medical treatment. Every medicine you
>>> >>take has some level of side effect.
>>> >>The vast majority of medicines have
>>> >>such negligible side effects, that
>>> >>they are considered completely safe.
>>> >>The FDA approval process exists to
>>> >>ensure we understand the potential of
>>> >>serious side effects and drug
>>> >>interaction issues.   If you are 30
>>> >>years old and folks are saying you
>>> >>have to take this experimental drug to
>>> >>prevent this incredibly small chance
>>> >>of you becoming seriously ill or
>>> >>dying, it seems like an intelligent
>>> >>thing to say “I am not sure the risk
>>> >>of getting seriously ill or dying from
>>> >>this disease outweighs the risk of
>>> >>using an experimental drug”.   It used
>>> >>to be that people relied upon a
>>> >>conversation with their doctor to
>>> >>determine personal risk of disease and
>>> >>use of a drug. Apparently we no longer
>>> >>do that.   We publicly shame people
>>> >>into using experimental drugs.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Since it is not FDA approved, we don’t
>>> >>have a full understanding of drug
>>> >>interactions with other medicines
>>> >>folks need to take.
>>> >>
>>> >>It isn't some weird new chemical we just
>>> >>invented this year.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. We likely understand the very common
>>> >>medicines, but, certainly not all.
>>>   We have FDA approval processes for
>>> >>good reason.   If for example, you
>>> >>were under 40 and were taking seizure
>>> >>control medication, it would be very
>>> >>fair to hold off on an experimental
>>> >>drug until it is fully understood if
>>> >>the vaccine might lessen the
>>> >>effectiveness of the seizure control
>>> >>medication.   An incredibly low risk
>>> >>of serious illness or death from the
>>> >>virus could turn into a good chance of
>>> >>serious injury from seizure.   As far
>>> >>as I know data like that is certainly
>>> >>not available yet.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> 1. Why do vaccinated people feel the need
>>> >>to belittle those that have decided
>>> >>not to get vaccinated by an
>>> >>experimental drug?
>>> >>
>>> >>I don't know the answer to that. I'm not
>>> >>comfortable with that behavior either.  It
>>> >>goes both ways though.  Plenty of memes out
>>> >>there accusing people of being dumb sheep for
>>> >>taking the vaccine.
>>> >>
>>> >>-- AF mailing list
>>> >>AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>>> >>
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>--
>>> >>-- AF mailing list
>>> >>AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>>> >>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>-- AF mailing list
>>> >>AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>>> >>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>-- - Forrest
>>> >>-- AF mailing list
>>> >>AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>>> >>http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > *Jay Weekley*
>>> > *Cyber Broadband
>>> > *
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>> > https://www.avg.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> --
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>>>
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>>
>
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>


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Minnesota WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] cut fiber

[Darin Steffl]

Get a backup connection and use BGP. Not rocket science

On Sat, Jul 24, 2021 at 5:38 PM Jan-GAMs  wrote:

> 5 minutes before the auction starts for the 4H club, the fiber backhaul
> somewhere gets cut.  Several counties got disconnected. Now a whole lot
> of kids didn't get to sell.  Can you believe this shit?  Of course
> because we're on-site we get the blame.
>
>
> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar v2

[Darin Steffl]

I think a big problem with hiring competent developers is the competition
in hiring from the biggest companies like Google, Facebook, Twitter, Tesla,
etc.

On Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 12:58 PM Sterling Jacobson 
wrote:

> We run v2 for our WISP and v1 still for our fiber.
>
> Generally speaking the UI in v2 is harder to navigate and less user
> friendly by far.
>
> Functionally V2 in some ways trumps v1 in but not enough that we are
> migrating our v1 over yet.
>
> Their future is in v2 so I understand that they do not want to put any
> more development into v1.
>
> The problem as I see it is that they don't have enough funding internally
> allocated to hire and complete v2 how it needs to be.
> They seem to be stuck in eternal development where they should hire on
> more competent software engineers and just get the job done.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2021 8:14 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Sonar v2
>
> Are any of you Sonar v2 users actually satisfied with the platform? It's
> looking like they are going to strong-arm me into migrating to v2 and
> *every* *single* person I know on v2 is dissatisfied with it.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>
> Midwest Internet Exchange
>
> The Brothers WISP
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Intuit & Billing

[Darin Steffl]

I would never trust Ubiquiti to handle my source of income. They're junk
with no real support.

On Sat, May 8, 2021, 8:40 AM Robert  wrote:

> Right up until ubnt kicks non-ubiquiti people off and sues them...
>
> On 5/8/21 12:28 AM, Timothy Steele wrote:
>
> sign up for stripe
>
> Then setup UISP
>
> you don't need to use any Ubiquiti devices to use a self-hosted UISP CRM
> especially not if you don't want any of the fancy stuff it dose
>
> really the best truly FREE option
>
> if you want to pay then I would go with Sonar
>
> if you want to pay a ton then powercode
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 11:23 AM Daniel White  wrote:
>
>> Visiting with a WISP that has way more than 20,000 subs last week, I was
>> a bit surprised to hear they used Billmax and are very happy with it.
>> Billmax probably doesn't get enough discussion in the community IMHO.
>>
>> [image: photograph]
>> Daniel White
>> Co-Founder
>> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
>> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
>>
>> Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>> May 6, 2021 at 16:14
>> I'd also consider Billmax if you're looking for billing only.It's
>> less expensive because it doesn't have all of the bells and whistles.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - Forrest
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown via AF 
>> May 6, 2021 at 15:40
>> Pretty sure we are gonna give it a go with plat.  Worked fine for me
>> years ago.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse DuPont 
>> May 6, 2021 at 15:01
>> We are current Plat customer (in one WISP, using Emerald in another -
>> they're both quite capable). In the Plat WISP, we're billing 6400 subs
>> using the free MSSQL license. No issues.
>> On 5/6/21 10:50 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] WISPAMERICA COVID

[Darin Steffl]

I've completed Pfizer and my parents completed Moderna 3 weeks ago.

Zero symptoms for all 3 of us on the first and second dose.

I was at the show and probably was masked 70% of the time and tried to only
take it off in groups of 5 or less people. Walking around the exhibit hall
and in session areas, I always wore it.

Basically while moving I had it on.

I did not get sick yet.

On Thu, May 6, 2021, 6:36 AM Caleb Knauer  wrote:

> No 'rona, but every morning I did wake up with a bad case of "I'm
> getting too old for this".  Luckily only temporary symptoms.
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 4:11 PM Matt Hoppes
>  wrote:
> >
> > I'm just curious more than anything... did any of you that went to
> > WISPAMERICA catch COVID?
> >
> > --
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Re: [AFMUG] Sonar discussions

[Darin Steffl]

WISP Talk on facebook. You can search there and read years of discussions.

On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 8:05 AM Brough Turner  wrote:

> Is there anywhere specific (email reflectors, forums, facebook groups,
> ...) where Sonar is being discussed?
>
> Thanks,
> Brough
>
> Brough Turner
> netBlazr Inc. – Free your Broadband!
> Mobile:  617-285-0433   Skype:  brough
> netBlazr Inc. <http://www.netblazr.com/> | Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/#%21/brough> | LinkedIn
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/broughturner> | Facebook
> <http://www.facebook.com/brough.turner>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] 5G Site?

[Darin Steffl]

Yes appears to be 5G which have integrated radio/antennas like what is
shown in your pic. 4G small cells typically still have antennas and radios
separate with pigtails between the two.

On Sun, May 2, 2021, 4:29 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Lol...my low friend who has a high place in city IT department says they
> are 5G sites.
>
> On Sun, May 2, 2021, 2:00 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
>> UFO landing pad.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Sunday, May 2, 2021 1:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] 5G Site?
>>
>> Spotted these downtown yesterday evening.
>> .they are going up every few blocks on streets like street lamps...some
>> have different type antennas but all have three, so i am assuming 120°
>> sectored...
>> Lots of fiber interconnect between them..
>> What's your thoughts Hobson?
>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] intuit

[Darin Steffl]

Sonar, Visp, Powercode ARE CHEAP. They're cheaper than the manual labor to
do what they do automatically.

We use Payment Depot for processing and they include Authorize.net gateway.
Our average card rate for all credit/debit is 2.3% through them.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 4:31 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Why would they NOT want that?  Don't they get a % on your transactions?
>
> I should think they'd want you to be their best frickin friend.
>
>
> On 4/29/2021 5:28 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> My wife got a live person on the phone at intuit.  They told her the
> problem, that we were going to do auto billing for $25K/month.  We are not
> doing any autobilling.  She has hope it is fixable.  I don’t have any hope
> but it will be a nice surprise if they do make it right.  Normally I have
> more tenacity than she does with this kind of stuff.
>
> *From:* Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:21 PM
> *To:* Mike Hammett ; AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
> Did I mention I was cheap?
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:26 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
> Sonar, PowerCode, VISP, etc.
>
> IP Pay, Pro Pay, etc.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF"  
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc: *ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 29, 2021 3:25:18 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
> I tried that, we are screwed.  They pulled up the drawbridge and said to
> go screw ourselves.
> So I need another customer billing platform.  And I am super cheap.  Any
> suggestions?
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 2:19 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
>
> When we switched to Enterprise, there was some kind of SNAFU with us being
> an "ISP". Bad juju in their opinion. I forget how we resolved it, but I
> think I recall us changing to some different classification.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 4/29/2021 12:44 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
>
> I’ll bet that is what happened.  We switched from online to Enterprise,
> they made us get a new merchant account.  It worked one day.  Now they have
> made a “final business decision” no telling me why or anything.  I am
> pretty sure I am screwed with intuit.
>
> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 29, 2021 1:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Cc:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] intuit
>
> Did they have you classified correctly?
>
> I had a similar problem years ago with an account that the merchant
> provider had classified in a high-risk category of 'online services', i.e.
> things like online gaming and porn. Once I got it straightened out to
> be the right category and the merchant provider understood my business
> better everything worked out.
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2021 at 12:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> Intuit just shut off the merchant account for our FTTH ISP.  And they are
>> not telling us why.  Not sure what to do.  We have to be able to take
>> payments.
>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
>
> ------
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Re: [AFMUG] Fixing Cut/damaged Ethernet cable at a home.

[Darin Steffl]

We have done splices and couplers wrapped in tape and mastic. Many fail
after a certain amount of time so our new policy is a cut cable means a new
cable run to somewhere so there's no buried splices. All splices must be
above ground so there's never 24/7 moisture.

Be sure to bill the customer for their mistake. Every time we've tried to
do a quick fix, it turns into the long, correct fix later down the road. So
we stop doing quick fixes and only do the right thing at the time of the
service call. It will cost less to do one visit instead of two and save you
time, and the customer frustration with two visits.

A typical cable cut when we have to replace cable and conduit is 2-3 hours
and we bill about $300-400 depending on materials. Make it costly so they
don't do it again.

On Mon, Apr 26, 2021, 4:16 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> you could also keep on the truck 1" pvc with caps and some epoxy,
> encapsulate the splices in epoxy ?
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2021 at 2:12 PM Mike Davis <
> wispali...@allianceinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> We've used the waterproof RJ45 splice coupler from Platinum Tools with
>> good success:
>>
>>
>> https://www.platinumtools.com/products/connectors/waterproof-rj45-splice-coupler-740c/
>>
>> Mike Davis
>> On 4/26/2021 2:46 PM, Sam Lambie wrote:
>>
>> My installers have been using telephone butt splices for years and they
>> are rearing their ugly head in terms of failing over time due to water and
>> UV damage, Even though they tape the connections okay.
>> My question is this, if it isn't easy to outright replace the cable and a
>> splice is faster/easier, is there a better product that can neatly splice 8
>> wires without looking like crap? And last a while?
>> We aren't too concerned about 1000 base connections from our antenna. 100
>> base is fine.
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *Sam Lambie*
>> Taosnet Wireless Tech.
>> 575-758-7598 Office
>> www.Taosnet.com 
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Nintendo Switch Port Forwarding

[Darin Steffl]

Consoles should never need port forwarding. Enable UPnP on the router and
you're done.

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:46 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Trying to help a guy with a Nintendo Switch issue and encountered this
> official tech support info:
>
>
>
>
> https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/22272/~/how-to-set-up-a-routers-port-forwarding-for-a-nintendo-switch-console
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Microsoft vs Google

[Darin Steffl]

We love Google apps going on 9 years now. I've never been a fan of
Microsoft.

We also use slack but if Microsoft includes much of the functionality of
slack and zoom in their offerings, it may be worth looking into for someone
wanting to switch.

We love Google too much and have very few pain points so there is nothing
driving us to even research an alternative.

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 3:41 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We work with a number of mid to enterprise sized corporate clients as part
> of our consulting practice.   Within those communities, Google’s toolset
> holds a very small piece of the market, if even countable.   Microsoft’s
> toolset, (Office 365 with Exchange, Teams, Sharepoint, Outlook, etc) seems
> to be very stable and very secure.   These organizations spend a lot of
> time looking at these kinds of things.
>
>
>
> Additionally, these same organizations are moving their applications
> environments to AWS and Azure in large volume.   We are seeing healthcare
> organizations handling HIPAA and HITRUST requirements as well as strong PCI
> requirement driven movement.   While we don’t have data points for these
> kinds of movements, we are not seeing much push to move towards Google.
> This same movement is pushing down to smaller and smaller organizations all
> the time.   We recently had a client with 3 employees move from Google to
> Microsoft’s Office 365 as they struggled with some of the gaps in the
> Google offering.
>
>
>
> The Teams client has been problematic as I understand it, however, for a
> year, our consultants feel it surpasses Zoom and Webex.   We don’t see
> enough of Google Meet for that to even be a comparison.   A big benefit to
> Teams is that includes the functionality of Slack (for the most part),
> Zoom, and shared file systems/repositories.   Additionally it is integrated
> into Outlook very well.
>
>
>
> All this being said, there are always reasons for organizations to pick
> another option.   My wife’s firm has been using Google for 6-7 years, but
> they are actively looking to move towards Microsoft, just hard to pull the
> trigger like that in a year like 2020.   There are several reasons, not the
> least of which are:
>
>1. You get an Office apps license for users that you pay extra for.
>It is lots easier then managing separate Office and Google app licenses.
>2. You get 1 TB of drive storage for each user allowing them to back
>up their computer hard drives without having to purchase another license
>for something to do that.
>3. No need to have Slack and Teams, can do it all in Teams (they had
>this before Hangout was mature enough)
>4. No need to have Zoom and Teams can do it all in Teams (they had
>this before Meet was mature enough)
>
>
>
> Honestly, we really don’t see any 40 person organizations move to Google
> from Office365.  It is always the other way around.But obviously that
> is just our experience so take that for what it’s worth. (not much )
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 16, 2021 3:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Microsoft vs Google
>
>
>
> microsoft all the way. slower to adopt new toy tech, longer support of
> outdated endpoints, stodgy old goats are reliable old goats. The whole
> current security issue is a nothingburger to me as I assume google just
> never comes clean
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 12:48 PM Steven Kenney 
> wrote:
>
> You have a choice of moving your office applications, all of its
> documents, email server , video conferencing, project management  and other
> applications from on prem to cloud based.
>
>
>
> Which one do you choose?
>
>
>
> One will cost more than the other for sure.
>
> One allows you to join a domain via Azure AD and set policies and remote
> manage computers
>
> One will be better to bounce SSO and auth off.
>
> One is more reliable than the other.
>
> One is more trustworthy than the other (although both are deep in
> government and alphabet agencies).
>
> One offers a nicer user experience for less technical people.  IE: more
> accessible / user friendly
>
> One offers a more granular experience for more technical people.
>
> One is more compatible with a wide variety of hardware and software
> operating systems
>
>
>
>
>
> Consider this for a staff of 40 people half of which are technical half
> which are not as technical.
>
>
>
> Which route would you go?
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: logo] 
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> *STEVEN KENNEY *
> *DIRECTOR OF GLOBAL CONNECTIVITY & CONTINUITY *
>
> *A: 158 Erie St. N | Leamington ON E: st...@wavedirect.org
>  | P: 519-737-9283 W: www.wavedirect.net
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Favorite high capacity 11Ghz XPIC backhaul

[Darin Steffl]

gt;> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>>>>> Website <http://www.zirkel.us/> | Facebook
>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ZIRKEL/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 4:54 PM Steve Jones 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> most of our aviat is xpic, no real issues to note. price is sketchy
>>>>>> cheap, i sometimes think that we arent actually buying from aviat and 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> ken rupple just keeps stealing stuff off their trucks and selling it to 
>>>>>> us.
>>>>>> I dont care, best set of speakers i ever had came of the back of a truck.
>>>>>> We have 8 links we bought last year. we are running out of sites to put
>>>>>> them at.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 5:23 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whatever you end up with, make sure to pay attention to system gain.
>>>>>>> It is absolutely critical for modulations above 512 QAM..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2021, at 6:19 PM, Darin Steffl 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aviat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our link is solid
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 4:02 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ahh they can do two channel xpic with bridgewater?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 2:00 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought Aviat was the bits/hertz king?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:53 PM Mathew Howard 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd agree with that. If one 80mhz XPIC is all that's available,
>>>>>>>>>> it's hard to beat Aviat.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But if you have two adjacent channels available, you can close to
>>>>>>>>>> double the capacity with the Bridgewaves. If I remember correctly, 
>>>>>>>>>> SIAE can
>>>>>>>>>> do the same thing, but it'll cost quite a bit more.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:56 PM Jason McKemie <
>>>>>>>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'll follow that up by saying that if you only have one 80MHz
>>>>>>>>>>> xpic channel available then I'd go with Aviat. I've got my first 
>>>>>>>>>>> link from
>>>>>>>>>>> them going up soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 3, 2021, Jason McKemie <
>>>>>>>>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If you've got the spectrum available I don't think anything can
>>>>>>>>>>>> come close to Bridgewave's Navigator, at least not without buying 
>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple
>>>>>>>>>>>> radios.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 3, 2021, Sean Heskett 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is the latest and greatest highest capacity 11Ghz radio
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone is in love with?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> asking for a friend ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sean Heskett*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *ZIRKEL *
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Website <http://www.zirkel.us/> | Facebook
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ZIRKEL/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Darin Steffl
>>>>>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>>>>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>>>>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>>>>>> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Favorite high capacity 11Ghz XPIC backhaul

[Darin Steffl]

Aviat

Our link is solid

On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 4:02 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> Ahh they can do two channel xpic with bridgewater?
>
> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 2:00 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> I thought Aviat was the bits/hertz king?
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021, 1:53 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>>
>>> I'd agree with that. If one 80mhz XPIC is all that's available, it's
>>> hard to beat Aviat.
>>>
>>> But if you have two adjacent channels available, you can close to double
>>> the capacity with the Bridgewaves. If I remember correctly, SIAE can do the
>>> same thing, but it'll cost quite a bit more.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 2:56 PM Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll follow that up by saying that if you only have one 80MHz xpic
>>>> channel available then I'd go with Aviat. I've got my first link from them
>>>> going up soon.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, March 3, 2021, Jason McKemie <
>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you've got the spectrum available I don't think anything can come
>>>>> close to Bridgewave's Navigator, at least not without buying multiple
>>>>> radios.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, March 3, 2021, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the latest and greatest highest capacity 11Ghz radio everyone
>>>>>> is in love with?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> asking for a friend ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Sean Heskett*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ZIRKEL *
>>>>>> *Internet • WiFi • Phone • TV*
>>>>>> 970-871-8500 x100 - Office
>>>>>> Website <http://www.zirkel.us/> | Facebook
>>>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ZIRKEL/>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] One of these things doesn't belong...

[Darin Steffl]

I'd love to know who did this and why.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 4:06 PM Brian Webster 
wrote:

> Guessing the tough switch? Doesn’t look to be of your typical installation
> quality.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 9, 2021 4:02 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] One of these things doesn't belong...
>
>
>
> We started to see packet loss and had some blowers shut down ..
>
> Ran some scans and picked up IPs we didn't recognize...found six new
> devices that didn't exist on network last week.
>
> Chime in when you find it...
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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink - First Blood

[Darin Steffl]

If he's truly surrounded by trees with no clear sky like the Starlink app
shows with their VR overlay, he will likely have a poor experience with it
and maybe come back.

We always tell people canceling what their average usage is because we use
Preseem and most people rarely average more than 10 Mbps unless they're
doing a download.

So someone on our 25 Mbps plan will peak and hit that but their average is
typically under 10 Mbps so if they switch for something "faster", we will
tell them they won't notice a difference and send screenshots of their
preseem graphs to prove it. If you average 10 Mbps, having 1000 Mbps fiber
instead of 25 Mbps won't feel any faster at all.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 10:28 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Got our first "Starlink" call today.  Guy who's been a long term
> customer - paying $90 for 50 megabits -- and getting that.
>
> Says "I'd rather give my money to a local company than to Musk, but
> those speeds.  Any chance you'll be offering faster speeds?".
>
> My only response was - if you truly need 150 megabits at your home, then
> Starlink is probably a better option for you.  We've found that 99% of
> our customers barely use 25 megabits, which is why our top plan is 50
> megabits.
>
> "OK, well I just wanted to try to give money locally".
>
> I appreciate that, but if you'd like to pay $9 more per month, plus a
> $600 install fee, to get the same speeds you're getting with us with the
> occasional faster speeds, and drops with every satellite switch, be my
> guest.
>
> This guy's house is also completely surrounded by trees.  I'm curious to
> see how this will play out.
>
> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: For those who like to bask in your nice noise free world.

[Darin Steffl]

That's virtually unusable based on the scans. Ours is bad but not quite
that bad.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:43 AM Nate Burke  wrote:

> My current channel is 5210.  I can't even pick out the noise from my other
> AP's.  We're the only non cellular operator here.  This is just what it's
> picking up looking out over the Chicago Metro.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Aviat Throughput in 11GHz

[Darin Steffl]

Yes it's 730+ Mbps full duplex per 80mhz channel. With XPIC, you have two
channels so roughly 1460 Mbps full duplex for the link. These things rock.
We love our WTM4200

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 9:48 PM Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> I think Ken from Aviat just answered my question.  It looks like it is
> about 1.4 Gbps FDX, so that is what I would expect.
>
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 9:35 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> In what?
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 8:55 PM Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Those of you that have WTM 4200 links deployed in 11GHz, what are you
>>> seeing throughput-wise in an 80MHz XPIC channel?  It looks like around
>>> 730mbps each way from what I can tell, but that doesn't seem right when I
>>> get just north of 400mbps in a single-pol 56MHz channel.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
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>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Ot: Managing old peoples digital footprint

[Darin Steffl]

Lastpass is what I recommend. Only need to know one master password then
you can save random generated logins for every site. I have over 200 logins
saved. I run it on android and on my chrome extension which covers all my
computers. Best thing I ever did.

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 8:12 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> Yes,
>
>
>
> There are password managers like 1Password and LastPass that have family
> accounts and allow personal and shared password records.   Also, some have
> an emergency option that allows you to specific an emergency contact who
> can access your personal vault in case you die or are incapacitated after a
> defined wait period.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 17, 2021 7:45 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Ot: Managing old peoples digital footprint
>
>
>
> Old people always have their grandkids setting up accounts for this or
> that, then the grandkids arent available when its time for support, nobody
> knows username and passwords, much less what email was used to set up an
> account.
>
>
>
> Right now for example, my uncle, who is deaf and doesnt use the internet,
> period, has my dad being his medical partner cause dad can hear and has me
> "whos good with computers". They set upp accounts, like his VA account and
> his healthare system accounts. But dont remember usernames and passwords.
> Trying to reset based on identifying info goes to the email used to set it
> up, but nobody knows what that is. And hes got a virtual appountment
> tuesday with tommorrow being a holiday
>
>
>
> Theres got to be an app or something for managing this stuff thats like a
> reverse parental control that kids authorize stuff for elderly.
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Re: [AFMUG] Warehouse APs

[Darin Steffl]

In somewhat large spaces that are open, if they want long range for few
devices, less AP's at normal or high power level is better. Ruckus is king
of coverage and density. Without knowing what's in the warehouse, it sounds
like 100 AP's would cause a lot of interference and too much airtime usage
for beacons. I would cut that down to 25 AP's if possible and do some
channel planning.

If they have a very large space and need lots of devices connected, then
more AP's at low power level is better. Preferably 2.4ghz is turned off on
all of them so they can use more clean channels on 5ghz if their devices
support it.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 12:56 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> What problem is he trying to solve?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
> *From: *"Chuck McCown via AF" 
> *To: *af@af.afmug.com
> *Cc: *"Chuck McCown" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, January 12, 2021 12:05:41 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Warehouse APs
>
> I have a friend that manages a 10 acre warehouse.  He has about 100 unify
> AP pros in there and is asking if there is a better solution.
>
> I told him that I thought the Unify AP Pros were pretty good stuff but
> there is a lot of stuff out there.  I remember using Rukus for AnimalFarm
> shows.
>
> What might be better.  By better I would think fewer APs, stronger more
> reliable signals etc.
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Vaccination

[Darin Steffl]

How did you get yours so quickly? Minnesota is only doing Healthcare
workers and nursing homes right now.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021, 8:48 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Got me my vaccination this morning...wife got hers on Monday...the Moderna
> version ...painless...
> Wife had sore arm that evening and got tired but it was gone next morning..
> I have been fine all day...even look better when I took a selfie.
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Re: [AFMUG] Keep Americans Connected Pledge and nonpaying customers

[Darin Steffl]

We didn't take the pledge and very glad we didn't. No one should work for
free and that's basically what the pledge was. When you let people get too
far behind, the remaining balance becomes daunting and they just ditch and
ignore you so you never get paid.

If you value yourselves and the work you do, never work for free. I'm
pretty sure they couldn't run up a tab at McDonald's, Costco, the gas
station, etc for free so why let them do it with you? The way they can pay
for things they don't have cash for is called a credit card. Let them
finance it so you're not the lender.


On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 7:49 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Here in the "hood" delinquent customers are just par for the course.  If
> there were 10% more we probably wouldn't have noticed.
>
> We didn't shut anyone off for non-payment through the end of the summer,
> and we gave people a lot of breaks.  At some point you have to shut them
> down or just give it away because if you're letting the balance build up
> too long then they'll never be able to get back on top of it.
>
> I don't think we have any boilerplate to share.  I'm pretty sure each
> one got their own little conversation.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> On 1/5/2021 6:37 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> It's weird, I think we have had less delinquent customers than before the
> pandemic.
>
> On Tue, Jan 5, 2021, 12:50 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a letter or other notice that you can share, that you
>> sent out to customers regarding nonpayment during the pandemic?
>>
>>
>>
>> The FCC “pledge” went through June 30, 2020.  Many large ISPs extended
>> things like late payments and overusage fees through the end of the year,
>> but many of those have expired now.  Also it seems that many people
>> misunderstood the terms, that it was voluntary not mandated by the
>> government, and that customers were supposed to contact the ISP about their
>> financial hardship, not just stop paying.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of our customers have paid as usual.  A few have made sporadic
>> payments.  Then there are the ones that just stopped paying.  A couple of
>> those who were on higher speed plans I have changed to a lower plan, one
>> that should still allow their kids to do Zoom classes and to watch one
>> video stream in the evening.  We didn’t pledge to give them our highest
>> speed plan for free.
>>
>>
>>
>> The customers who haven’t contacted us about hardship, or made at least
>> partial payments, I want to send out some kind of notice.  Tony Fauci is
>> saying we might see some normalcy by fall of this year, some people are
>> saying it’s going to be as long as until 2023, so we really don’t know.
>> Fauci isn’t an economist, but I would take his estimate as a best case,
>> meaning we are looking at another 6-9 months of nonpayers unless we start
>> shutting them off.  Plus I assume most of them won’t be able to pay the
>> past due balance and we’ll have to write some of it off.  We do cash not
>> accrual based accounting, otherwise I would have written a whole bunch of
>> it off before year end for tax purposes.  Just because we sent an invoice
>> doesn’t mean we got paid.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, anybody have an example of something you mailed or emailed to
>> customers, stuffed in bills, posted on your website, etc. on this issue?
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...

[Darin Steffl]

Haven't heard doomscrolling.

Time to Google it ha

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 9:14 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> And based on where Steve is located, I assume he’s starting off 2021 with
> the second ice storm of the week.  I guess 2020 puts things in
> perspective.  Years from now we’ll be boring our grandkids with stories of
> 2020 the year from hell.
>
>
>
> May people stop using words and phrases like:
>
> - social distancing
>
> - the new normal
>
> - an abundance of caution
>
> - unprecedented times
>
> - doomscrolling
>
> - covidiot
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2020 10:39 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Wishing everyone a good riddance...
>
>
>
> Amen to that. Shitshow doesnt even begin to describe this stain on the
> timeline.
>
> But there was some good. I dont know what it was, but I'm gonna assume
> there was some
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 7:46 PM Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
> Word!
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> > On Dec 31, 2020, at 8:40 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > And hopefulness that 2021 will be an improvement over 2020.
> >
> > --
> > - Forrest
> > --
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> >
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] mess around VPS

[Darin Steffl]

Don't do it then lol. I'm just telling you our experience and that it's a
good deal for non critical apps. You can Google them and read reviews. Most
people are happy with ssdnodes like we are.

They have a 14 day refund period if you wanna try it. There's little risk
especially using credit card payment where you have chargeback protection
if the company doesn't follow through with their refund policy.

On Fri, Jan 1, 2021, 12:27 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Sounds suspect
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 11:32 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty much yep. No catch. We have 3 vps instances with ssd nodes and
>> they've been pretty good. Only a couple hours of downtime in last year and
>> support does respond but not instantly. If you want really reliable, look
>> at my other two options.
>>
>> If you want lots of cpu, memory, and disk space to play with and good but
>> not perfect reliability then ssd nodes is a good choice. I host non
>> critical things there like Unifi controller, some radius backups, etc.
>>
>> I host 3cx voip instances at linode and vultr since I need more instances
>> and fewer resources and prefer the monthly cost instead of 3 year prepay.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:36 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So for like 250 bucks I get that for 3 years? What's the catch?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 12:44 PM Darin Steffl 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looks like they're running a really good special now. 3-year prepay at
>>>> $84 per year and you get the following to play around with. Great deal of
>>>> CPU, RAM, and storage for not much money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> KVM / 2X-LARGE
>>>>
>>>> $1920/yr
>>>>
>>>> $84/yr
>>>>
>>>> Save $5,508!
>>>>
>>>> 32GB RAM
>>>> 480GB NVMe
>>>> 8 vCPU
>>>> 16TB transfer
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:41 PM Darin Steffl 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I use SSDNodes, Linode, and Vultr and have good luck with all of them.
>>>>> The most reliable is Vultr then Linode. The one with the most resources 
>>>>> for
>>>>> lowest cost is SSDNodes but you have to prepay to get the best deal. They
>>>>> run specials all the time too.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:22 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whats a decent cheap hosted solution? I keep a vmware instance up I
>>>>>> toss crap on here and there. today may be a chr, tommorrow may be a
>>>>>> librenms rebuild, next day ill build half a Cacti server because this 
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> im finally gonna learn to operate it, then ill switch to a windows box 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> some application i need to test. I usually sit n 50-300gb of idle VMs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like right now Im needing inbound monitoring to some problematic
>>>>>> customers, I really just want a multiping instance running overnight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I prefer to manage access via an external mikrotik or fortigate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whats decent and cheap, cheap being key since its only semi
>>>>>> production use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I dont understand AWS
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ionos.com looks pretty fair, but I dont know anything about it
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Darin Steffl
>>>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>>>> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darin Steffl
>>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>>> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] mess around VPS

[Darin Steffl]

Pretty much yep. No catch. We have 3 vps instances with ssd nodes and
they've been pretty good. Only a couple hours of downtime in last year and
support does respond but not instantly. If you want really reliable, look
at my other two options.

If you want lots of cpu, memory, and disk space to play with and good but
not perfect reliability then ssd nodes is a good choice. I host non
critical things there like Unifi controller, some radius backups, etc.

I host 3cx voip instances at linode and vultr since I need more instances
and fewer resources and prefer the monthly cost instead of 3 year prepay.

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 10:36 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> So for like 250 bucks I get that for 3 years? What's the catch?
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020, 12:44 PM Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
>> Looks like they're running a really good special now. 3-year prepay at
>> $84 per year and you get the following to play around with. Great deal of
>> CPU, RAM, and storage for not much money.
>>
>>
>>
>> KVM / 2X-LARGE
>>
>> $1920/yr
>>
>> $84/yr
>>
>> Save $5,508!
>>
>> 32GB RAM
>> 480GB NVMe
>> 8 vCPU
>> 16TB transfer
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:41 PM Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I use SSDNodes, Linode, and Vultr and have good luck with all of them.
>>> The most reliable is Vultr then Linode. The one with the most resources for
>>> lowest cost is SSDNodes but you have to prepay to get the best deal. They
>>> run specials all the time too.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whats a decent cheap hosted solution? I keep a vmware instance up I
>>>> toss crap on here and there. today may be a chr, tommorrow may be a
>>>> librenms rebuild, next day ill build half a Cacti server because this time
>>>> im finally gonna learn to operate it, then ill switch to a windows box for
>>>> some application i need to test. I usually sit n 50-300gb of idle VMs.
>>>>
>>>> Like right now Im needing inbound monitoring to some problematic
>>>> customers, I really just want a multiping instance running overnight.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer to manage access via an external mikrotik or fortigate.
>>>>
>>>> Whats decent and cheap, cheap being key since its only semi production
>>>> use.
>>>>
>>>> I dont understand AWS
>>>>
>>>> ionos.com looks pretty fair, but I dont know anything about it
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Darin Steffl
>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>> www.mnwifi.com
>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darin Steffl
>> Minnesota WiFi
>> www.mnwifi.com
>> 507-634-WiFi
>> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] mess around VPS

[Darin Steffl]

Looks like they're running a really good special now. 3-year prepay at $84
per year and you get the following to play around with. Great deal of CPU,
RAM, and storage for not much money.



KVM / 2X-LARGE

$1920/yr

$84/yr

Save $5,508!

32GB RAM
480GB NVMe
8 vCPU
16TB transfer

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:41 PM Darin Steffl 
wrote:

> I use SSDNodes, Linode, and Vultr and have good luck with all of them. The
> most reliable is Vultr then Linode. The one with the most resources for
> lowest cost is SSDNodes but you have to prepay to get the best deal. They
> run specials all the time too.
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Whats a decent cheap hosted solution? I keep a vmware instance up I toss
>> crap on here and there. today may be a chr, tommorrow may be a
>> librenms rebuild, next day ill build half a Cacti server because this time
>> im finally gonna learn to operate it, then ill switch to a windows box for
>> some application i need to test. I usually sit n 50-300gb of idle VMs.
>>
>> Like right now Im needing inbound monitoring to some problematic
>> customers, I really just want a multiping instance running overnight.
>>
>> I prefer to manage access via an external mikrotik or fortigate.
>>
>> Whats decent and cheap, cheap being key since its only semi production
>> use.
>>
>> I dont understand AWS
>>
>> ionos.com looks pretty fair, but I dont know anything about it
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
> Like us on Facebook <http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>
>


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Re: [AFMUG] mess around VPS

[Darin Steffl]

I use SSDNodes, Linode, and Vultr and have good luck with all of them. The
most reliable is Vultr then Linode. The one with the most resources for
lowest cost is SSDNodes but you have to prepay to get the best deal. They
run specials all the time too.

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Whats a decent cheap hosted solution? I keep a vmware instance up I toss
> crap on here and there. today may be a chr, tommorrow may be a
> librenms rebuild, next day ill build half a Cacti server because this time
> im finally gonna learn to operate it, then ill switch to a windows box for
> some application i need to test. I usually sit n 50-300gb of idle VMs.
>
> Like right now Im needing inbound monitoring to some problematic
> customers, I really just want a multiping instance running overnight.
>
> I prefer to manage access via an external mikrotik or fortigate.
>
> Whats decent and cheap, cheap being key since its only semi production use.
>
> I dont understand AWS
>
> ionos.com looks pretty fair, but I dont know anything about it
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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507-634-WiFi
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Re: [AFMUG] AT outage

[Darin Steffl]

Chuck,

I thought you just shared you had triple path redundancy and it would be
very difficult to go down?

On Sun, Dec 27, 2020, 10:15 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> Last week I had a neighbor worried internet, phones and power were all
> going down about this time.  Qanon end of the world type of thing.  I
> assured her all will be well.  Now we are down hard...  teach me to be an
> optimist.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 27, 2020, at 8:56 PM, Seth Mattinen  wrote:
> >
> > On 12/27/20 6:30 PM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
> >> We are out.  I wonder how widespread this is?
> >
> >
> > My RNO-LAX transport over att is up.
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] Data center Security

[Darin Steffl]

I'm not even saying target buildings. If you simply targeted lots of rural
fiber handholes and some power transmission lines across the country or
even just a single state, you can do some real damage. One fiber cut takes
4 to 24 hours to repair depending who owns it, how close the contractor is,
etc. If you own the fiber and have your own gear it might take 4 hours. If
it's Zayo, expect 16+ hours typically.

But if you put a small bomb in multiple hand holes along major fiber
routes, it could take days to fix everything. And taking down power lines,
again multiple ones, could take days to restore power for people. This
would cause mass panic.

On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 11:19 AM Robert  wrote:

> How do you time a CME?   I guess you can jump into action with the
> pre-impact warning of 1-2 days?
>
> On 12/26/20 8:53 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> You don't need a terrorist to take out the satellites. One well-timed CME
> will do it all.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 12/26/2020 8:27 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> At least the satellites are safe, we have Space Force.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *Matt Hoppes
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 26, 2020 10:18 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Data center Security
>
>
>
> Never thought about that. Yo get the data center back up. But your fibers
> all down. In 5 places. But you only find out once you get one back
> together.
>
>
>
> Yeah. We’re safe because no one has done it. Not because we’re safe.
>
>
>
> On Dec 26, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I've thought about how vulnerable the entire US power and communications
> grid is.
>
>
>
> It would be so easy to cut multiple long haul fibers, plant bombs at large
> power transmission lines and then sync it all together to explode, cut
> things at the same time. It could easily be done in rural areas only but
> still affect metros since they all feed from rural power and fiber lines.
>
>
>
> There's also no cameras or as many people monitoring things in the middle
> of nowhere. If this was done over multiple states and targeted multiple
> grids and fibers, you could almost knock out 90% of all power and
> communication. This would hurt more than any single location attack.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 9:54 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> I hesitated on where to post this. Not that I think I’m giving anyone any
> ideas - but still.
>
> What happened in Nashville has actually been a concern of mine for some
> time.
>
> Look at 9/11. Huge loss of life yes. But that took a lot of effort and
> planning and getting through security and learning to basically fly a
> massive tin projectile.
>
> How much more damage could a small group do with 5 or 6 vans loaded with
> explosives in a coordinated attack on say: NYC, 401N Broad, Ashburn, St
> Louis, Chicago and San Jose?
>
> Throw in a few major CO switching offices in some major towns.
>
> You’ve caused mass disaster. Minimal planning. And now with 911 services
> out and data crippled you could do something else even more major.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Data center Security

[Darin Steffl]

I've thought about how vulnerable the entire US power and communications
grid is.

It would be so easy to cut multiple long haul fibers, plant bombs at large
power transmission lines and then sync it all together to explode, cut
things at the same time. It could easily be done in rural areas only but
still affect metros since they all feed from rural power and fiber lines.

There's also no cameras or as many people monitoring things in the middle
of nowhere. If this was done over multiple states and targeted multiple
grids and fibers, you could almost knock out 90% of all power and
communication. This would hurt more than any single location attack.


On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 9:54 AM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> I hesitated on where to post this. Not that I think I’m giving anyone any
> ideas - but still.
>
> What happened in Nashville has actually been a concern of mine for some
> time.
>
> Look at 9/11. Huge loss of life yes. But that took a lot of effort and
> planning and getting through security and learning to basically fly a
> massive tin projectile.
>
> How much more damage could a small group do with 5 or 6 vans loaded with
> explosives in a coordinated attack on say: NYC, 401N Broad, Ashburn, St
> Louis, Chicago and San Jose?
>
> Throw in a few major CO switching offices in some major towns.
>
> You’ve caused mass disaster. Minimal planning. And now with 911 services
> out and data crippled you could do something else even more major.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] UniFI 6 AP

[Darin Steffl]

I consider every Ubnt product to be beta with no assurance they won't
end-of-life it sooner than you want.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2020, 12:00 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Do you really think any product of Ubnt is going to have a different
> experience than the past dozen generations or examples?
>
> Josh Luthman
> 24/7 Help Desk: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 11:51 AM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> Is there any reason not to use the new UniFi 6 access points now? Or is
>> the first gen of these likely to suffer the fate of the square AC AP?
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Not all Texans are idiots

[Darin Steffl]

I don't think the gun nuts and militiamen stand a chance against the
national guard if they wanna rebel and spill blood over trump losing the
election fair and square.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 8:33 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Apathy only works when stupidity isnt fed, scotus needs to shut off the
> feedmill. It no secret I dabble in right wing extremism, even though I'm a
> statist. What people in those circles talk about scares me, and I like
> violence
>
> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 8:27 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I think you underestimate the apathy of most Americans
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 4:55 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Scotus is unique in that they arent elected, they ha e a wide berth of
>>> discretion, they are the literal last line prior to violent engagement. So,
>>> say the feds want to add a tea tax on Massachusetts. Massachusetts says
>>> hey, I'm harmed by this. Without a hearing the court says, nope, no merit.
>>> Massachusetts says, hey now, we really think you should hear us out.
>>> Discretion being the key.
>>>
>>> We are at the point of a harbor being a tea kettle in close to 40
>>> million of the most heavily armed people on the planets minds . Whether
>>> what they think is real, or make believe, it is what it is, and their
>>> communications have been forced out of the public's surveillance, so you
>>> never know what they're going to do next. They're not the kind who wear
>>> black clothes, masks, and disappear right after they do something cowardly
>>> like beat an old man in a wheelchair. They also believe the italian guy
>>> pretending to be latino wasnt kidding.
>>>
>>> Either way
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 4:19 PM Carl Peterson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm not exactly clear as to the train of thought, or even what
 case/issue the SC should hear out.  The "case" argued in public is nothing
 like anything presented in any court.  It isn't like Trump's
 lawyers weren't given an opportunity.  Q.  Are you alleging fraud?  A.
 No.  Well OK then.  You can't then go to the PA supreme court and allege
 fraud.  When the PA supreme court declines to let you, you can't go to the
 SC and do the same.  They will rightly tell you to pound sand.  This basic
 script played out over and over again.

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 3:49 PM Adam Moffett 
 wrote:

> If I'm following Steve's train of thought: he's saying giving the
> issue a day in court might convince some people that justice was done more
> effectively than simply dismissing the case.  An independent judiciary
> shouldn't have to consider political angles like that.  The cases are 
> being
> dismissed because they lack standing and/or lack merit.  If that doesn't
> convince people, then neither would taking the case to court and losing
> it.
>
>
>
>>>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] RDOF challenges at this point?

[Darin Steffl]

Nope. That was due by April 10. You needed to provide 25/3 with voice and
file both in Form 477. If you didn't, you were considered unserved and RDOF
funds were available.

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020, 4:01 PM Peter Kranz via AF  wrote:

> So if RDOF funds were awarded to competitors in areas you already have
> extensive coverage and customers, is there a path forward to challenge that
> award?
>
>
>
> -Peter
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Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 3 GHz 450b backorders

[Darin Steffl]

Probably that and COVID delays.

I was looking for ePMP 3000 AP's for 5 weeks before any stock showed up.
They said there are delays in manufacturing, delays in shipping, delays in
customs, delays in semi drivers to deliver everything, etc.

Assume 5-7 days delay on each step of the journey from China and we can see
4-8 weeks lead time on new gear.

Hopefully they catch up soon. Calix has been this way for years actually.
You need to know how many you want and when you want it or you wait 8 weeks
if you order on demand. For this reason, we order X quantity every 3 months
to guarantee stock.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Before I contact Cambium, does anyone know when more stock is supposed to
> be arriving at distributors for the 3 GHz 450b SMs?  P/N C030045B021A
>
>
>
> Seems like there have been zero out there for at least a month, I’ve had
> some on order for 3 weeks, distributors are showing tons on order.  I have
> some regular SMs and reflector dishes I can use and apply a 20M to uncapped
> license key if necessary, but at some point I’ll run out of those too.
>
>
>
> What happened, did PAL winners buy up all the stock?
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] Netflix 4K video bandwidth

[Darin Steffl]

Depends on the size of the screen. SD on an 80" TV will look like crap but
on your 4.5" smartphone, it will look much better as it's not blown up like
a TV.

When I go on Norwegian cruise ships, they use Procera to limit video
streams to about 600 kbps and while it takes 20 seconds for Netflix to
start, it rarely buffers during a 45 minute episode. They have to use DPI
as they only have about 300 mbps satellite internet for a ship of 6000+
passengers and staff. And they charge $30 per day for the streaming package
and VPN. Other packages cost less but block all streaming.

Hopefully starlink will improve the bandwidth for marine applications once
they get the laser links working. Then each ship should be able to have 1
gig or more of bandwidth. Pricing should go down to something more
reasonable like $10 a day then for wifi.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:53 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> I dont understand how standard definition used to stream at 512k with a
> decent video, and now it looks like abstract art. Have we become more
> accustomed to higher def and sd still looks the same, we just notice it
> more now?
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:35 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> That’s exactly what we saw.
>>
>> Preseem would equalize flows - but we still got calls for buffering
>> issues.
>>
>> When we created data lanes those issues also went away.
>>
>> Saisei was a bit complex to get setup. But they helped all the way. And
>> since it’s setup it’s been hands off.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:12 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Preseem handles this fine too Matt. If Netflix bursts up to 25 mbps while
>> you have voip or gaming going, fq_codel will make sure the small flows move
>> ahead of Netflix.
>>
>> Saisei is DPI and entirely different so you can keep Netflix at 5 mbps
>> for example. It's way more complicated and has more knobs than preseem. We
>> enjoy the simplicity of not having to tweak things all the time like we had
>> to with procera and Saisei.
>>
>> We have seen similar complaints of more buffering when a user upgrades
>> from 10 to 25 or higher mbps for example. Every case of this has been a
>> wifi issue with either a crap router or lots of weak signal clients.
>> Airtime usage on the router was being maxed out now that they upgraded
>> plans. Fix the wifi and the problems go away. Or use Saisei like Matt does
>> but their wifi still sucks, it just doesn't max the airtime anymore.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:06 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> At 25 megabit plans we see devices thrash painfully. They will think
>>> they have the full 25 meg. Try to grab a chunk. And can’t because something
>>> is using the bandwidth.
>>> That’s why we made lanes.
>>>
>>> On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Darin Steffl 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Yes Netflix will scale down gracefully. They have the best compression
>>> and least amount of buffering of any streaming provider. They are using the
>>> latest encoding techniques to reduce bandwidth with no perceptible loss of
>>> quality.
>>>
>>> Netflix will actually work down to 0.5 mbps without buffering. This will
>>> be low quality of course but it works.
>>>
>>> If Netflix buffers, you have terrible wifi or a bad device. If your
>>> device and wifi are good and you have at least 0.5 mbps, Netflix works.
>>> I've seen HD work down below 1.5 mbps before and it's beautiful quality.
>>>
>>> I give Netflix tons of props for making sure their service works well
>>> when others don't. Read through the Netflix Tech Blog if you wanna geek out
>>> on how they operate.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 3:49 PM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don’t know. But this is why we run Saisei and carve out “channels”
>>>> for applications.
>>>>
>>>> We’ve found issues with that exact situation and devices that don’t
>>>> handle the down scale properly.
>>>>
>>>> We’ve actually had customers report a better experience on our 10 meg
>>>> plan than our 25 megabit plan until we established data lanes on our plans.
>>>>
>>>> Now you buy a 25 meg plan but streaming, updates, gaming, voip, etc all
>>>> have their own lanes.
>>>>
>>>> You can use everything unless something else wants data. Then
>>>> everything gets dumped int

Re: [AFMUG] Netflix 4K video bandwidth

[Darin Steffl]

Preseem handles this fine too Matt. If Netflix bursts up to 25 mbps while
you have voip or gaming going, fq_codel will make sure the small flows move
ahead of Netflix.

Saisei is DPI and entirely different so you can keep Netflix at 5 mbps for
example. It's way more complicated and has more knobs than preseem. We
enjoy the simplicity of not having to tweak things all the time like we had
to with procera and Saisei.

We have seen similar complaints of more buffering when a user upgrades from
10 to 25 or higher mbps for example. Every case of this has been a wifi
issue with either a crap router or lots of weak signal clients. Airtime
usage on the router was being maxed out now that they upgraded plans. Fix
the wifi and the problems go away. Or use Saisei like Matt does but their
wifi still sucks, it just doesn't max the airtime anymore.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 5:06 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> At 25 megabit plans we see devices thrash painfully. They will think they
> have the full 25 meg. Try to grab a chunk. And can’t because something is
> using the bandwidth.
> That’s why we made lanes.
>
> On Dec 5, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
>
> 
> Yes Netflix will scale down gracefully. They have the best compression and
> least amount of buffering of any streaming provider. They are using the
> latest encoding techniques to reduce bandwidth with no perceptible loss of
> quality.
>
> Netflix will actually work down to 0.5 mbps without buffering. This will
> be low quality of course but it works.
>
> If Netflix buffers, you have terrible wifi or a bad device. If your device
> and wifi are good and you have at least 0.5 mbps, Netflix works. I've seen
> HD work down below 1.5 mbps before and it's beautiful quality.
>
> I give Netflix tons of props for making sure their service works well when
> others don't. Read through the Netflix Tech Blog if you wanna geek out on
> how they operate.
>
> On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 3:49 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> I don’t know. But this is why we run Saisei and carve out “channels” for
>> applications.
>>
>> We’ve found issues with that exact situation and devices that don’t
>> handle the down scale properly.
>>
>> We’ve actually had customers report a better experience on our 10 meg
>> plan than our 25 megabit plan until we established data lanes on our plans.
>>
>> Now you buy a 25 meg plan but streaming, updates, gaming, voip, etc all
>> have their own lanes.
>>
>> You can use everything unless something else wants data. Then everything
>> gets dumped into the lanes and stays there.
>>
>> Some say this is shady I liken this to a freeway at rush hour.
>>
>> You leave all the traffic just go and it backlogs. You have the HOV lane
>> and now traffic is flying again.
>>
>> Customers want their experience to just work.
>>
>> On Dec 5, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I have seen customers recently using 12 Mbps for what appears to be a
>> single Netflix video stream.  Anyone else seeing this?
>>
>>
>>
>> I was puzzled what could be between HD at 5-6 Mbps and UHD at 15-25
>> Mbps?  But then I saw this:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://netflixtechblog.com/optimized-shot-based-encodes-for-4k-now-streaming-47b516b10bbb
>>
>>
>>
>> Are these customers streaming 4K video?  And if so, does anyone know what
>> happens if other people in the house start using bandwidth, will Netflix
>> gracefully adjust the video quality downward to lower quality UHD or to
>> HD?  Or will customers start watching 4K UHD and then complain their
>> Internet sucks if other usage in the house drops the available download
>> bandwidth to 8 or 10 Mbps?
>>
>>
>>
>> And I wonder how this interacts with Netflix supposedly limiting stream
>> rates during the pandemic to lessen the burden on Internet infrastructure.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] Netflix 4K video bandwidth

[Darin Steffl]

Yes Netflix will scale down gracefully. They have the best compression and
least amount of buffering of any streaming provider. They are using the
latest encoding techniques to reduce bandwidth with no perceptible loss of
quality.

Netflix will actually work down to 0.5 mbps without buffering. This will be
low quality of course but it works.

If Netflix buffers, you have terrible wifi or a bad device. If your device
and wifi are good and you have at least 0.5 mbps, Netflix works. I've seen
HD work down below 1.5 mbps before and it's beautiful quality.

I give Netflix tons of props for making sure their service works well when
others don't. Read through the Netflix Tech Blog if you wanna geek out on
how they operate.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, 3:49 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> I don’t know. But this is why we run Saisei and carve out “channels” for
> applications.
>
> We’ve found issues with that exact situation and devices that don’t handle
> the down scale properly.
>
> We’ve actually had customers report a better experience on our 10 meg plan
> than our 25 megabit plan until we established data lanes on our plans.
>
> Now you buy a 25 meg plan but streaming, updates, gaming, voip, etc all
> have their own lanes.
>
> You can use everything unless something else wants data. Then everything
> gets dumped into the lanes and stays there.
>
> Some say this is shady I liken this to a freeway at rush hour.
>
> You leave all the traffic just go and it backlogs. You have the HOV lane
> and now traffic is flying again.
>
> Customers want their experience to just work.
>
> On Dec 5, 2020, at 4:39 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I have seen customers recently using 12 Mbps for what appears to be a
> single Netflix video stream.  Anyone else seeing this?
>
>
>
> I was puzzled what could be between HD at 5-6 Mbps and UHD at 15-25 Mbps?
> But then I saw this:
>
>
>
>
> https://netflixtechblog.com/optimized-shot-based-encodes-for-4k-now-streaming-47b516b10bbb
>
>
>
> Are these customers streaming 4K video?  And if so, does anyone know what
> happens if other people in the house start using bandwidth, will Netflix
> gracefully adjust the video quality downward to lower quality UHD or to
> HD?  Or will customers start watching 4K UHD and then complain their
> Internet sucks if other usage in the house drops the available download
> bandwidth to 8 or 10 Mbps?
>
>
>
> And I wonder how this interacts with Netflix supposedly limiting stream
> rates during the pandemic to lessen the burden on Internet infrastructure.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] old and busted vs new hotness

[Darin Steffl]

I rarely hear this from customers but we've always used a round dish of
some sort. Nanobridge, powerbeam, epmp force 110, 200, 300

So we never used reflectors and customers can't tell the difference from
the ground of any of the above dishes.

That said, if you can provide them their plan speed with the old SM and
there isn't any improvement with the new one, you have no obligation to
upgrade their hardware. You upgrade when their plan needs newer hardware or
it's defective and needs replacement. As long as you own the gear, you
decide when it's upgraded, period.

Where we're upgrading 1k or 2k to the 3k with 4x4 sector, we're proactively
upgrading the top 10 customers on each sector to Force 300 so we can see
some mu-mimo action. They don't pay for the upgrade because it's our gear
and we're doing it to increase capacity. The gear we swap gets reused
elsewhere on the network where our 2k gear is sufficient and underloaded.
We have some 6+ year old powerbeams that are elevated still chugging along
too. They've made us a lot of money.

Cambium offering elevate for our ubiquiti cpe saved us over $400,000 in
hardware, labor, and opportunity costs.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 3:07 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Install a new capped one
>
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, 2:57 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I regularly run into customers who want a new SM because we installed it
>> several years ago and they assume there are newer, faster ones now and they
>> should have one of those.
>>
>>
>>
>> It doesn’t help when for example they see us install a 450b for a
>> neighbor and it looks different from their classic 450 with a reflector
>> dish.  It looks different.  Obviously the neighbor got the new fast radio,
>> while they are stuck with the old slow one, and we need to come upgrade
>> theirs.  I can try to explain why there’s no difference, or something about
>> it being a software defined radio and theirs is running the latest FW same
>> as the neighbor’s radio, or that we applied a license key to take theirs
>> from 20M sustained to uncapped.  But they seem to think if they are paying
>> their bill every month, they should get a new radio every couple years.
>> Like a new smartphone every 2 years?  Or maybe they think the only thing we
>> did was install something on their roof, so why do they need to keep paying
>> us if we don’t upgrade the thing on the roof, what are we doing to earn our
>> money?
>>
>>
>>
>> Anybody have a solution for this?  Or just continue ignoring them?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In case you didn’t get the Men In Black reference:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-uagjJQ9k
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy McFlatface' Antenna! [V

[Darin Steffl]

Most guesses are upwards of $2,500 to manufacturer. Phased array antennas
are very expensive and before they put a lot of effort into reducing cost,
most said minimum $10k for this type of antenna.



On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 12:36 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:

> That antenna array alone is probably costing them $20 and another $20 of
> chips on it.  I am guessing it is north of $100 to make.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:28 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy
> McFlatface' Antenna! [V
>
>
> What do you estimate it would cost them to manufacture in large
> quantities?  People are probably assuming it’s a $10 item at some point,
> but it looks expensive to me, even at scale.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown via AF
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 11:49 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* ch...@go-mtc.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy
> McFlatface' Antenna! [V
>
>
>
> Clever motor assembly.   Be fun to use that same mechanism for a solar
> panel.  I may have to give that a try.
>
> So, it does steer mechanically.  Almost has to to maximize the gain.
>
>
>
> Looks like roughly 2000 patches.
>
> Looks like roughly 500 chips feeding them.  So a 4 patch array fed by a
> T/R-LNA - power amp.  4-6 of those clusters fed into a larger chip that
> probably does the phasing for steering.
>
>
>
> So the antenna is just a whole lot of simple in a very massive scale.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 29, 2020 8:24 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] YouTuber dismantles the SpaceX Starlink 'Dishy
> McFlatface' Antenna! [V
>
>
>
> https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/starlink-teardown
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla

[Darin Steffl]

To run all the computer electronics off of. And in case of an accident, the
car automatically severs the high voltage battery connection so it needs
power for the computer, hazard lights, horn,etc which means needing a 12v
battery.

Every electric car today and hybrid has the 12v battery still. The good
thing is this battery charges from the high voltage battery so it should
almost never run dead and lasts awhile due to no deep discharges.



On Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 7:42 AM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Why does it have a 12 volt battery?
>
> On Nov 28, 2020, at 9:47 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 28, 2020 7:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla
>
>
>
> They'll send mobile service out for easy things like cabin filter
> replacements, headlight or tail light replacements, charge port issues, 12v
> battery replacement, etc.
>
>
>
> Anything big like electric motor, HV battery, Hvac, body or paint issues
> require bringing it to the service center.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 7:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> We have several friends and a couple relatives with different models of
> Teslas; mostly Model S and Model 3 AFAIK. Every single one tells me they
> one of thebest cars they've ever owned.
>
> I've heard a couple tell me about them coming to your home for service.
> What is "service" for a Tesla? Rotate tires I guess. No oil to change. Oh
> yeah, fill the windshield washer fluid.
>
>
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
> On 11/28/2020 4:43 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> It depends on what they're working on. Most things they can have done in a
> day or same day sometimes. If they're sending the car to a body shop then
> it can take longer.
>
>
>
> Some service centers are probably busier than others. Our two in Minnesota
> both do a great job with timely repairs. They provide a loaner tesla which
> is nice.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 12:12 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> He likes the car. He said waiting a week for repairs and having to use the
> elite Tesla repair shop is just a little ridiculous.
>
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2020, at 11:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Matt,
>
>
>
> I have a Model 3 and it's the best thing I've ever driven and owned.
> Nothing is more fun and I've driven lots of sports cars.
>
>
>
> Your brother in law may be the 1 or 2% of people who just don't like the
> product they bought. You can't satisfy 100% of your customers but out of
> all auto manufacturers in the US, tesla had the highest satisfaction rate
> for a reason. They're fun as hell and get smarter/better every few weeks
> with new updates.
>
>
>
>
> https://insideevs.com/features/403607/consumer-reports-tesla-highest-satisfaction-rate/
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:50 PM George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
> I figured you'd pick on me. 
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:40 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> How are you going to roll coal in that?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --
>
> *From: *"George Skorup" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Friday, November 27, 2020 8:24:01 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla
>
> I went the other way a couple months ago and got a diesel. Me and three
> others got plowed by a semi driver not paying attention doing about 40mph
> while we were all basically stopped in a construction zone. I was last in
> line. Enough damage that my insurance co totaled my 2011 Silverado and cut
> a check. Opted for the new 2020 Silverado with the 3.0 Duramax. The 30 MPG
> ain't bad. It doesn't have the diesel stank or the black clouds. Is that
> like a hipster diesel? Maybe not Murica enough either?
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.

Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla

[Darin Steffl]

They'll send mobile service out for easy things like cabin filter
replacements, headlight or tail light replacements, charge port issues, 12v
battery replacement, etc.

Anything big like electric motor, HV battery, Hvac, body or paint issues
require bringing it to the service center.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 7:03 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> We have several friends and a couple relatives with different models of
> Teslas; mostly Model S and Model 3 AFAIK. Every single one tells me they
> one of thebest cars they've ever owned.
>
> I've heard a couple tell me about them coming to your home for service.
> What is "service" for a Tesla? Rotate tires I guess. No oil to change. Oh
> yeah, fill the windshield washer fluid.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 11/28/2020 4:43 AM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>
> It depends on what they're working on. Most things they can have done in a
> day or same day sometimes. If they're sending the car to a body shop then
> it can take longer.
>
> Some service centers are probably busier than others. Our two in Minnesota
> both do a great job with timely repairs. They provide a loaner tesla which
> is nice.
>
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 12:12 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> He likes the car. He said waiting a week for repairs and having to use
>> the elite Tesla repair shop is just a little ridiculous.
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2020, at 11:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Matt,
>>
>> I have a Model 3 and it's the best thing I've ever driven and owned.
>> Nothing is more fun and I've driven lots of sports cars.
>>
>> Your brother in law may be the 1 or 2% of people who just don't like the
>> product they bought. You can't satisfy 100% of your customers but out of
>> all auto manufacturers in the US, tesla had the highest satisfaction rate
>> for a reason. They're fun as hell and get smarter/better every few weeks
>> with new updates.
>>
>>
>> https://insideevs.com/features/403607/consumer-reports-tesla-highest-satisfaction-rate/
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:50 PM George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I figured you'd pick on me. 
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:40 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
>>>> How are you going to roll coal in that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>>> --
>>>> *From: *"George Skorup" 
>>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 27, 2020 8:24:01 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla
>>>>
>>>> I went the other way a couple months ago and got a diesel. Me and three
>>>> others got plowed by a semi driver not paying attention doing about 40mph
>>>> while we were all basically stopped in a construction zone. I was last in
>>>> line. Enough damage that my insurance co totaled my 2011 Silverado and cut
>>>> a check. Opted for the new 2020 Silverado with the 3.0 Duramax. The 30 MPG
>>>> ain't bad. It doesn't have the diesel stank or the black clouds. Is that
>>>> like a hipster diesel? Maybe not Murica enough either?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla

[Darin Steffl]

It depends on what they're working on. Most things they can have done in a
day or same day sometimes. If they're sending the car to a body shop then
it can take longer.

Some service centers are probably busier than others. Our two in Minnesota
both do a great job with timely repairs. They provide a loaner tesla which
is nice.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 12:12 AM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> He likes the car. He said waiting a week for repairs and having to use the
> elite Tesla repair shop is just a little ridiculous.
>
> On Nov 27, 2020, at 11:45 PM, Darin Steffl 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Matt,
>
> I have a Model 3 and it's the best thing I've ever driven and owned.
> Nothing is more fun and I've driven lots of sports cars.
>
> Your brother in law may be the 1 or 2% of people who just don't like the
> product they bought. You can't satisfy 100% of your customers but out of
> all auto manufacturers in the US, tesla had the highest satisfaction rate
> for a reason. They're fun as hell and get smarter/better every few weeks
> with new updates.
>
>
> https://insideevs.com/features/403607/consumer-reports-tesla-highest-satisfaction-rate/
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:50 PM George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> I figured you'd pick on me. 
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:40 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> How are you going to roll coal in that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"George Skorup" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Friday, November 27, 2020 8:24:01 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla
>>>
>>> I went the other way a couple months ago and got a diesel. Me and three
>>> others got plowed by a semi driver not paying attention doing about 40mph
>>> while we were all basically stopped in a construction zone. I was last in
>>> line. Enough damage that my insurance co totaled my 2011 Silverado and cut
>>> a check. Opted for the new 2020 Silverado with the 3.0 Duramax. The 30 MPG
>>> ain't bad. It doesn't have the diesel stank or the black clouds. Is that
>>> like a hipster diesel? Maybe not Murica enough either?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla

[Darin Steffl]

Matt,

I have a Model 3 and it's the best thing I've ever driven and owned.
Nothing is more fun and I've driven lots of sports cars.

Your brother in law may be the 1 or 2% of people who just don't like the
product they bought. You can't satisfy 100% of your customers but out of
all auto manufacturers in the US, tesla had the highest satisfaction rate
for a reason. They're fun as hell and get smarter/better every few weeks
with new updates.

https://insideevs.com/features/403607/consumer-reports-tesla-highest-satisfaction-rate/

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:50 PM George Skorup 
wrote:

> I figured you'd pick on me. 
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 8:40 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> How are you going to roll coal in that?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"George Skorup" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Friday, November 27, 2020 8:24:01 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla
>>
>> I went the other way a couple months ago and got a diesel. Me and three
>> others got plowed by a semi driver not paying attention doing about 40mph
>> while we were all basically stopped in a construction zone. I was last in
>> line. Enough damage that my insurance co totaled my 2011 Silverado and cut
>> a check. Opted for the new 2020 Silverado with the 3.0 Duramax. The 30 MPG
>> ain't bad. It doesn't have the diesel stank or the black clouds. Is that
>> like a hipster diesel? Maybe not Murica enough either?
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla

[Darin Steffl]

The warranty on tesla batteries are very good. If the pack fails during
warranty, they replace the whole pack.

I'm not sure how one bad cell can disable an entire pack because on model 3
and Y, sandy Munro says if a cell fails, it severs the connection to the
rest of the pack so it can continue operating. Maybe that wasn't the case
on early model S's like this one.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 4:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Is that a “remanufactured” battery pack?  And does “remanufactured” mean
> somebody clipped a wire?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jason McKemie
> *Sent:* Friday, November 27, 2020 4:37 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT One bad cell kills Tesla
>
>
>
> It's not that much to replace the battery pack.  A friend of mine that has
> one said around $8K.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 3:58 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> $20,000 to replace the battery pack  I’ll stick with my gas vehicles.
>
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2020, at 4:43 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> You would think that's a built in pack feature
>
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020, 3:26 PM Chuck McCown via AF  wrote:
>
> Fun watch  https://youtu.be/F-B_8oMZNeI
>
> $5000 for snipping a wire.
>
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