Re: [AFMUG] OT: Durable ice repellents

[Bill Prince]

One of the best things I got from my primary instructor was "When you 
don't like it where you is, go where you ain't."


That advice has saved my bacon more than once.


bp


On 4/28/2016 4:49 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


100% agree.  Not a CFII yet (working on it) but I'm a ground 
instructor and I tell my students exactly the same thing.


On 04/28/2016 04:45 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:


20 years and a CFII ticket later I tell my student pilots the same 
thing - you're the one going 150mph, the biggest danger the guy on 
the other end of the radio has is falling out of his swivel chair. 
 Don't let them intimidate you.


The other thing I try to get across to pilots is 'don't be afraid to 
declare an emergency because you are worried about the paperwork'.   
The FAA does not consider a successfully handled emergency anything 
more than the system working properly.I have declared several 
emergencies over the last 25 years (2 vacuum pump failures in IMC, 
one bad mag / rough engine, icing, and a VFR into IMC incident). The 
amount of paperwork involved has been zero.


I have asked the question to the FAA - what happens when a pilot 
declares an emergency.  The answer:  If the emergency is successfully 
handled and the flight terminates normally the only paperwork the 
controller does is filing a 'flight assistance report' to the FSDO 
(flight standards district office).  The reports are reviewed to look 
for trends and ongoing safety concerns, but rarely result in any 
further action.   The purpose of the system is to improve safety, and 
it doesn't work if pilots are afraid to use it.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you 
are Pilot In Command, and you're responsible. Even with today's FAA, 
you will win that argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part 
nailed!  Good for you.


On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early 
in my flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the 
clearance.   If ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone 
numbers, and discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark


On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, 
ATC was denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a 
mask.  Which is needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near 
enough my destination that I could start descending.  The wings 
shed all the ice during the descent. Oh, and i wasn't near gross 
weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like 
being in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near 
maximum altitude, and watching the ice grow on the leading 
edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much. Most 
I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the 
@#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, 
your worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly 
in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would 
help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys 
see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp




















!DSPAM:2,5722a0a5309602458321254! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bill Prince]

As in, when I say unable, I mean unable.

bp


On 4/28/2016 1:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is 
needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination 
that I could start descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the 
descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw 
the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in 
the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, 
and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out 
of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in 
clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help 
for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the 
winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp










!DSPAM:2,572269ae156489778211817! 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Daniel Gerlach]

good work !

2016-04-29 5:14 GMT+02:00 Scott Vander Dussen :
> He sees me as redeemed! :)
>
> Thanks,
> `S
>
> ---
> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 16:27, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
>
> You must be on good terms with God...14:years. wow
>
> On Apr 28, 2016 2:49 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen"  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Jamie, we didn’t fuse/breaker the inside of the box because we have
>> that at the base with the rectifier.  We live in CA where the weather is
>> fairly predictable and don’t suffer from lightening.  In 14 years we’ve
>> never had a single device fried from something that fuse/breaker would have
>> prevented.  I didn’t want to risk having something that needed to be reset
>> or replaced that was tower mounted, but only at the base.
>>
>>
>>
>> `S
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:55 AM
>> To: Animal Farm 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?
>>
>>
>>
>> Oops
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Like.  How much to just build three for us?
>>
>> On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David  wrote:
>>
>> Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)
>>
>> On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I built a CMM for 2016!
>>
>> Highlights:
>>
>> * Gigabit everything
>>
>> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>>
>> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>>
>> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>>
>> * Temperature monitoring
>>
>> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>>
>> * Fan seizure notification
>>
>> * LED light strip controlled by door
>>
>> * Door alarm trigger
>>
>> * Hoist pull loop
>>
>> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>>
>> * 36lbs
>>
>> * Price circa $2100
>>
>> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
>> Parts list here:
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>>
>> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>>
>> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

He sees me as redeemed! :)

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 16:27, Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


You must be on good terms with God...14:years. wow

On Apr 28, 2016 2:49 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks Jamie, we didn't fuse/breaker the inside of the box because we have that 
at the base with the rectifier.  We live in CA where the weather is fairly 
predictable and don't suffer from lightening.  In 14 years we've never had a 
single device fried from something that fuse/breaker would have prevented.  I 
didn't want to risk having something that needed to be reset or replaced that 
was tower mounted, but only at the base.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:55 AM
To: Animal Farm mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?


Oops
On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
mailto:installe...@foxvalley.net>> wrote:
Like.  How much to just build three for us?
On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)

On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

[Chuck McCown]

We have to pay the tech support people, may as well give them extra tools so 
they can help satisfy the customer, even when it is not the fault of the 
company.  

From: Sterling Jacobson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:58 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

That sounds interesting.

 

I kind of like the idea of a rented supported system.

 

But I don’t like the idea of people calling in every time their wireless 
doesn’t reach their attic, or to open up ports to their gaming thingy.

 

So my real question is this, at $7 a month, does it make enough money to hire 
someone full time to answer the phones on these and be the go-to guy for every 
single problem on their internal network?

 

If not, then I’m fine staying completely away from this (and hiring people to 
man the phone calls).

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig Schmaderer
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

 

It is a addon straight from calix.  Ask your sales rep. 

Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.

 





On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:21 AM -0700, "Chris Fabien"  
wrote:

Craig how are you getting the 5yr warranty?

On Apr 28, 2016 9:01 AM, "Craig Schmaderer"  wrote:

  If you use consumer connect the are even cheaper.  Best routers i have ever 
sold.  We are starting to use their gigapoints with a 844E and sell a $7 
managed service.  We have about a 90% take rate.  I also get them with 5 year 
warrantys so i know i will never loose money on them. They also have an app for 
the home owner that we are starting to use.  

  Craig schmaderer
  Skywave Wireless, Inc.

   





  On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM -0700, "Chuck McCown"  
wrote:

  We have been renting them out for $8/mo

  Nice thing is we can totally get in and troubleshoot anything.

  And the parents can control which devices and which services they allow their 
kids to use.  

   

  From: Sean Heskett 

  Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:39 AM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

   

  Best router ever!  Highly recommend them. 

   

  We sell it as a managed wifi service instead of selling just the router.  
Customer pays $99 "setup fee" and $12/mo.  Clients love them and so do our 
support staff.

   

  -Sean 

  On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Gino Villarini  wrote:

We are looking for a Home Gateway / Router that supports 802.11AC wifi and 
gigabit speeds on the LAN.   

I have read that Calix is a good option, what is the cost? Experience with 
them or others? 

Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

[Sterling Jacobson]

That sounds interesting.

I kind of like the idea of a rented supported system.

But I don't like the idea of people calling in every time their wireless 
doesn't reach their attic, or to open up ports to their gaming thingy.

So my real question is this, at $7 a month, does it make enough money to hire 
someone full time to answer the phones on these and be the go-to guy for every 
single problem on their internal network?

If not, then I'm fine staying completely away from this (and hiring people to 
man the phone calls).


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Craig Schmaderer
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

It is a addon straight from calix.  Ask your sales rep.
Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.



On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:21 AM -0700, "Chris Fabien" 
mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>> wrote:

Craig how are you getting the 5yr warranty?
On Apr 28, 2016 9:01 AM, "Craig Schmaderer" 
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com>> wrote:
If you use consumer connect the are even cheaper.  Best routers i have ever 
sold.  We are starting to use their gigapoints with a 844E and sell a $7 
managed service.  We have about a 90% take rate.  I also get them with 5 year 
warrantys so i know i will never loose money on them. They also have an app for 
the home owner that we are starting to use.
Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.



On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM -0700, "Chuck McCown" 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
We have been renting them out for $8/mo
Nice thing is we can totally get in and troubleshoot anything.
And the parents can control which devices and which services they allow their 
kids to use.

From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

Best router ever!  Highly recommend them.

We sell it as a managed wifi service instead of selling just the router.  
Customer pays $99 "setup fee" and $12/mo.  Clients love them and so do our 
support staff.

-Sean

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Gino Villarini 
mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We are looking for a Home Gateway / Router that supports 802.11AC wifi and 
gigabit speeds on the LAN.
I have read that Calix is a good option, what is the cost? Experience with them 
or others?

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Site Monitor Switch

[Jaime Solorza]

Isolate
On Apr 28, 2016 1:27 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> Most of the inputs to the site monitor are ground referenced.  In fact one
> of the connections labeled switch input is actually tied to ground.
>
> If you have any sort of reference to ground tied in to the circuit hooked
> to the switch input things will likely act oddly.
> On Apr 27, 2016 3:11 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen" 
> wrote:
>
>> Enclosure with a door relay switch.  When the door is open the relay
>> switch turns on a light, and trips the site monitor's switch input to send
>> an alert that the door is open.
>>
>> When the circuit is connected as show in the attached PNG the site
>> monitor always reads the switch input as 1 or connected regardless of the
>> state of the door switch relay.  When we reverse the wires going into the
>> site monitor switch input everything works perfectly.  So when the door
>> relay switch's C is connected to the right hand side of the switch input
>> and the NO is connected to the left it works as expected.
>>
>> This totally does NOT make sense to me at all :/
>>
>> I thought perhaps the Site Monitor was bridging the switch inputs and the
>> negative rail of the power source internally.  To test that theory I
>> connected a different power supply directly to the Site Monitor that was
>> separate from the power supply used for the light and network switch and
>> also connected to the door relay switch.  But even in this state it
>> performed the exact same.  I must be missing something?
>>
>> Scott
>>
>

[AFMUG] OT Durable ice repellents

[Chuck McCown]

Make sure to tell them to have a NASA form with them too and to report on 
themselves immediately anytime they think they may have done something wrong.  
Several people I know have got out of jail free with that.  

From: Mark Radabaugh 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:45 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents


20 years and a CFII ticket later I tell my student pilots the same thing - 
you're the one going 150mph, the biggest danger the guy on the other end of the 
radio has is falling out of his swivel chair.  Don't let them intimidate you.

The other thing I try to get across to pilots is 'don't be afraid to declare an 
emergency because you are worried about the paperwork'.   The FAA does not 
consider a successfully handled emergency anything more than the system working 
properly.I have declared several emergencies over the last 25 years (2 
vacuum pump failures in IMC, one bad mag / rough engine, icing, and a VFR into 
IMC incident). The amount of paperwork involved has been zero.  

I have asked the question to the FAA - what happens when a pilot declares an 
emergency.  The answer:  If the emergency is successfully handled and the 
flight terminates normally the only paperwork the controller does is filing a 
'flight assistance report' to the FSDO (flight standards district office).  The 
reports are reviewed to look for trends and ongoing safety concerns, but rarely 
result in any further action.   The purpose of the system is to improve safety, 
and it doesn't work if pilots are afraid to use it.

Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:


  Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you are Pilot 
In Command, and you're responsible.  Even with today's FAA, you will win that 
argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part nailed!  Good for you.

  On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early in my 
flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the clearance.   If 
ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone numbers, and discussing 
FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.

Mark

  On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

  I would have declared the emergency before climbing.




  On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

  On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

  I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is needed 
above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination that I could start 
descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the descent.  Oh, and i wasn't 
near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.




  On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being 
in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, and 
watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:

  I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most 
I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.




  On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.  

Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, 
your worldview on ice changes...

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a passive anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)




On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  TKS

  From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

  I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice 
up!




  On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would 
help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter 
t

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Jerry Head]

Cam we mark this threat OT please?

On 4/28/2016 6:49 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


100% agree.  Not a CFII yet (working on it) but I'm a ground 
instructor and I tell my students exactly the same thing.


On 04/28/2016 04:45 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:


20 years and a CFII ticket later I tell my student pilots the same 
thing - you're the one going 150mph, the biggest danger the guy on 
the other end of the radio has is falling out of his swivel chair. 
 Don't let them intimidate you.


The other thing I try to get across to pilots is 'don't be afraid to 
declare an emergency because you are worried about the paperwork'.   
The FAA does not consider a successfully handled emergency anything 
more than the system working properly.I have declared several 
emergencies over the last 25 years (2 vacuum pump failures in IMC, 
one bad mag / rough engine, icing, and a VFR into IMC incident). The 
amount of paperwork involved has been zero.


I have asked the question to the FAA - what happens when a pilot 
declares an emergency.  The answer:  If the emergency is successfully 
handled and the flight terminates normally the only paperwork the 
controller does is filing a 'flight assistance report' to the FSDO 
(flight standards district office).  The reports are reviewed to look 
for trends and ongoing safety concerns, but rarely result in any 
further action.   The purpose of the system is to improve safety, and 
it doesn't work if pilots are afraid to use it.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you 
are Pilot In Command, and you're responsible. Even with today's FAA, 
you will win that argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part 
nailed!  Good for you.


On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early 
in my flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the 
clearance.   If ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone 
numbers, and discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark


On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:

I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, 
ATC was denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a 
mask.  Which is needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near 
enough my destination that I could start descending.  The wings 
shed all the ice during the descent. Oh, and i wasn't near gross 
weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like 
being in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near 
maximum altitude, and watching the ice grow on the leading 
edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much. Most 
I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the 
@#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, 
your worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly 
in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would 
help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys 
see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp




















!DSPAM:2,5722a0a5309602458321254! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

100% agree.  Not a CFII yet (working on it) but I'm a ground instructor 
and I tell my students exactly the same thing.


On 04/28/2016 04:45 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:


20 years and a CFII ticket later I tell my student pilots the same 
thing - you're the one going 150mph, the biggest danger the guy on the 
other end of the radio has is falling out of his swivel chair.  Don't 
let them intimidate you.


The other thing I try to get across to pilots is 'don't be afraid to 
declare an emergency because you are worried about the paperwork'.   
The FAA does not consider a successfully handled emergency anything 
more than the system working properly.I have declared several 
emergencies over the last 25 years (2 vacuum pump failures in IMC, one 
bad mag / rough engine, icing, and a VFR into IMC incident). The 
amount of paperwork involved has been zero.


I have asked the question to the FAA - what happens when a pilot 
declares an emergency.  The answer:  If the emergency is successfully 
handled and the flight terminates normally the only paperwork the 
controller does is filing a 'flight assistance report' to the FSDO 
(flight standards district office).  The reports are reviewed to look 
for trends and ongoing safety concerns, but rarely result in any 
further action.   The purpose of the system is to improve safety, and 
it doesn't work if pilots are afraid to use it.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you are 
Pilot In Command, and you're responsible. Even with today's FAA, you 
will win that argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part 
nailed!  Good for you.


On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early 
in my flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the 
clearance.   If ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone 
numbers, and discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC 
was denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  
Which is needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my 
destination that I could start descending.  The wings shed all 
the ice during the descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, 
whew! Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like 
being in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near 
maximum altitude, and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. 
Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most 
I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the 
@#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, 
your worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly 
in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would 
help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys 
see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp




















!DSPAM:2,5722a0a5309602458321254! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Mark Radabaugh]

20 years and a CFII ticket later I tell my student pilots the same thing - 
you're the one going 150mph, the biggest danger the guy on the other end of the 
radio has is falling out of his swivel chair.  Don't let them intimidate you.

The other thing I try to get across to pilots is 'don't be afraid to declare an 
emergency because you are worried about the paperwork'.   The FAA does not 
consider a successfully handled emergency anything more than the system working 
properly.I have declared several emergencies over the last 25 years (2 
vacuum pump failures in IMC, one bad mag / rough engine, icing, and a VFR into 
IMC incident). The amount of paperwork involved has been zero.  

I have asked the question to the FAA - what happens when a pilot declares an 
emergency.  The answer:  If the emergency is successfully handled and the 
flight terminates normally the only paperwork the controller does is filing a 
'flight assistance report' to the FSDO (flight standards district office).  The 
reports are reviewed to look for trends and ongoing safety concerns, but rarely 
result in any further action.   The purpose of the system is to improve safety, 
and it doesn't work if pilots are afraid to use it.

Mark

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:20 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you are Pilot 
> In Command, and you're responsible.  Even with today's FAA, you will win that 
> argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part nailed!  Good for you.
> 
>> On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>> There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early in my 
>> flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the clearance.   If 
>> ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone numbers, and 
>> discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would have declared the emergency before climbing.
>>> 
 On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
 Had that conversation before:
 
 Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
 23M: Unable due to icing
 Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
 23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
 Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
 23M: leaving 6 for 8
 
 4 minutes later:
 
 23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
 Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
 23M: Not collecting ice
 
 Grrr…
 
 Mark
 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
> 
> I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
> denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is 
> needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination that I 
> could start descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the descent.  
> Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed 
> decrease, though.
> 
>> On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in the 
>> freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, and 
>> watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>> I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
>>> gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of 
>>> me.
>>> 
 On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 Not sure I would trust it. 
  
 Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
 worldview on ice changes...
  
 From: Bruce Robertson
 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
  
 Lemme rephrase... a passive anti-ice that doesn't require refilling or 
 inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)
 
> On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> TKS
>  
> From: Bruce Robertson
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
>  
> I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!
> 
>> On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for 
>> a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter 
>> time.
>> 
>> This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
>> anti ice coating. 
>> Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?
>> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-sl

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Jaime Solorza]

You must be on good terms with God...14:years. wow
On Apr 28, 2016 2:49 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen"  wrote:

> Thanks Jamie, we didn’t fuse/breaker the inside of the box because we have
> that at the base with the rectifier.  We live in CA where the weather is
> fairly predictable and don’t suffer from lightening.  In 14 years we’ve
> never had a single device fried from something that fuse/breaker would have
> prevented.  I didn’t want to risk having something that needed to be reset
> or replaced that was tower mounted, but only at the base.
>
>
>
> `S
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:55 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?
>
>
>
> Oops
>
> On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
> wrote:
>
> Like.  How much to just build three for us?
>
> On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David  wrote:
>
> Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)
>
> On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
> wrote:
>
> I built a CMM for 2016!
>
> Highlights:
>
> * Gigabit everything
>
> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>
> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>
> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>
> * Temperature monitoring
>
> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>
> * Fan seizure notification
>
> * LED light strip controlled by door
>
> * Door alarm trigger
>
> * Hoist pull loop
>
> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>
> * 36lbs
>
> * Price circa $2100
>
> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
> Parts list here:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>
> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>
> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Jaime Solorza]

Wow..when I am flying .I like allot of ice.in my beer cooler to
keep Tecate and Modelo coold.  Yes I am a cross drinker now ajua
On Apr 28, 2016 3:14 PM, "Robert Andrews"  wrote:

> A hearty well done, and that sort of exchange makes me want to ask for the
> controller's phone number.   Who says the conversation cannot go the other
> way?  Specially with someone senior from the FAA in attendance. Ice and
> flying, a NO FUCK AROUND situation..   I don't care what kind of air
> vehicle it is..  It took down the shuttle because of ignoring physics...
>
> On 04/28/2016 01:20 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>
>> Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you are
>> Pilot In Command, and you're responsible.  Even with today's FAA, you
>> will win that argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part
>> nailed!  Good for you.
>>
>> On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>>
>> There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early in
>>> my flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the
>>> clearance.   If ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone
>>> numbers, and discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson >>> > wrote:

 I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


 On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

> Had that conversation before:
>
> Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
> 23M: Unable due to icing
> Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
> 23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
> Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
> 23M: leaving 6 for 8
>
> 4 minutes later:
>
> 23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
> Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
> 23M: Not collecting ice
>
> Grrr…
>
> Mark
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson > > wrote:
>>
>> I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC
>> was denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.
>> Which is needed above FL180. Fortunately I was near enough my
>> destination that I could start descending.  The wings shed all the
>> ice during the descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!
>> Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.
>>
>>
>> On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being
>>> in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum
>>> altitude, and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>> On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>>

 I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most
 I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the
 @#$% out of me.


 On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

> Not sure I would trust it.
> Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets,
> your worldview on ice changes...
> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
>
> Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require
> refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in
> clouds."  :-)
>
>
> On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>
>> TKS
>> *From:* Bruce Robertson 
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
>>
>> I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!
>>
>>
>> On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would
>>> help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see
>>> in the winter time.
>>>
>>> This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a
>>> "durable" anti ice coating.
>>>
>>> Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>>
>

>>> !DSPAM:2,57226fef169091994116129!
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

[Craig Schmaderer]

It is a addon straight from calix.  Ask your sales rep.

Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:21 AM -0700, "Chris Fabien" 
mailto:ch...@lakenetmi.com>> wrote:


Craig how are you getting the 5yr warranty?

On Apr 28, 2016 9:01 AM, "Craig Schmaderer" 
mailto:cr...@skywaveconnect.com>> wrote:
If you use consumer connect the are even cheaper.  Best routers i have ever 
sold.  We are starting to use their gigapoints with a 844E and sell a $7 
managed service.  We have about a 90% take rate.  I also get them with 5 year 
warrantys so i know i will never loose money on them. They also have an app for 
the home owner that we are starting to use.

Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM -0700, "Chuck McCown" 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

We have been renting them out for $8/mo
Nice thing is we can totally get in and troubleshoot anything.
And the parents can control which devices and which services they allow their 
kids to use.

From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

Best router ever!  Highly recommend them.

We sell it as a managed wifi service instead of selling just the router.  
Customer pays $99 "setup fee" and $12/mo.  Clients love them and so do our 
support staff.

-Sean

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Gino Villarini 
mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We are looking for a Home Gateway / Router that supports 802.11AC wifi and 
gigabit speeds on the LAN.
I have read that Calix is a good option, what is the cost? Experience with them 
or others?

[AFMUG] 900 MHz AP's

[Jon Paul Kelley]

I am in need of about 10 900 MHz PMP 100 AP's. Does anyone onlist have any
they need to move out?

 

Contact me offlist.

 

Jon Paul Kelley

CKS Wireless

903-589-0044 x-102

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Robert Andrews]

A hearty well done, and that sort of exchange makes me want to ask for 
the controller's phone number.   Who says the conversation cannot go the 
other way?  Specially with someone senior from the FAA in attendance. 
Ice and flying, a NO FUCK AROUND situation..   I don't care what kind of 
air vehicle it is..  It took down the shuttle because of ignoring physics...


On 04/28/2016 01:20 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:

Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you are
Pilot In Command, and you're responsible.  Even with today's FAA, you
will win that argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part
nailed!  Good for you.

On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:


There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early in
my flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the
clearance.   If ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone
numbers, and discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.

Mark


On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson mailto:br...@pooh.com>> wrote:

I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark


On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson mailto:br...@pooh.com>> wrote:

I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC
was denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.
Which is needed above FL180. Fortunately I was near enough my
destination that I could start descending.  The wings shed all the
ice during the descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!
Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.


On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being
in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum
altitude, and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.


bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most
I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the
@#$% out of me.


On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets,
your worldview on ice changes...
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in
clouds."  :-)


On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would
help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see
in the winter time.

This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a
"durable" anti ice coating.

Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp


















!DSPAM:2,57226fef169091994116129!

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I ordered the ICT rectifier from Matthew Bavosa at Tessco

Matthew Bavosa
TESSCO Technologies Inc.
Public Network Organizations
410-229-1182  Tel
410-527-0005 Fax
bavo...@tessco.com
Sales Support: (800) 472-7373

Pricing was about $770 for the ICT600-24SBC and $1150 for the ICT1200-24SBC.  
Just curious, why are people always so shy to share pricing on-list?  Seems 
like it would be beneficial for others but obviously I must be missing 
something and committing a faux pas.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:12 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Oh right, I didn’t want separate timing cables, that’s what it was.  A 12 port 
Gigabit SyncInjector would be awesome though!

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:01 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

They only do timing, not ethernet.  You run dedicated timing cables from the AP 
to the SyncBox, and then Cat5 from the AP to the Netonix switch for power+data.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using SyncBox 
12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This allows us to 
run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.  The FSK/450 gets 
timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the WS-12-250-DC.  No need 
for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in this scenario.  Just an idea.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)  I 
wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of the 
Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in the 
enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step 
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in the WS but 
it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3% voltage 
drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily be tuned up 
to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik 
and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is fully DC, finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.
Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I didn't use a condensate drain besides two small weep holes.  I'll give some 
consideration to reinforcing the strut, tower guys said the same thing.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

Put a neoprene washer under the bolt, and a bead of silicone behind the 
strut.� Even if it someday down the road it started weeping during the rain 
it would just fall out through your condensate drain.

.I didn't read your parts list though.� If you don't have a condensate 
drain you should think about that.

On 4/28/2016 12:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Yeah I feel the same. The two are going into reinforced embedded threads- 
adding more would mean a penetration to the box :/ maybe JB weld the strut on 
there too!



Thanks,

`S



---

Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.



On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:37, Adam Moffett 
 wrote:



Very nice.



Just an opinion, but I would put a few more bolts into that mounting strut.  
I'm guessing you've got one in each corner.  Even low grade steel bolts are 
staggeringly strong, but if you had a bad one then suddenly you're hanging on 
one bolt.





On 4/27/2016 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I built a CMM for 2016!



Highlights:



* Gigabit everything



* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices



* Sync/Power up to 24 devices



* Power 24v and 48v devices



* Temperature monitoring



* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor



* Fan seizure notification



* LED light strip controlled by door



* Door alarm trigger



* Hoist pull loop



* 20" x 18" x 10"



* 36lbs



* Price circa $2100



Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg

Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf



Any suggestions to make this more awesome?



[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thanks Jamie, we didn’t fuse/breaker the inside of the box because we have that 
at the base with the rectifier.  We live in CA where the weather is fairly 
predictable and don’t suffer from lightening.  In 14 years we’ve never had a 
single device fried from something that fuse/breaker would have prevented.  I 
didn’t want to risk having something that needed to be reset or replaced that 
was tower mounted, but only at the base.

`S

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:55 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?


Oops
On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
mailto:installe...@foxvalley.net>> wrote:
Like.  How much to just build three for us?
On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David 
mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:
Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)

On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

[Paul Stewart]

ROFL!

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: April 28, 2016 4:20 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

I'm full of it so I may as well sell some.

Chuck McCown wrote:
> http://www.openbiome.org/stool-donation/

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

Never forget that it's your ass in the clouds and not theirs, you are 
Pilot In Command, and you're responsible.  Even with today's FAA, you 
will win that argument.  But it sounds like you've got that part 
nailed!  Good for you.


On 04/28/2016 01:17 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early in 
my flying career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the 
clearance.   If ATC wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone 
numbers, and discussing FAR’s regarding the PIC’s authority.


Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC 
was denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  
Which is needed above FL180. Fortunately I was near enough my 
destination that I could start descending.  The wings shed all the 
ice during the descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  
Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being 
in the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum 
altitude, and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most 
I've gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the 
@#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, 
your worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in 
clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would 
help for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see 
in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp


















!DSPAM:2,57226fef169091994116129! 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

[Jay Weekley]

I'm full of it so I may as well sell some.

Chuck McCown wrote:

http://www.openbiome.org/stool-donation/

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Mark Radabaugh]

There  was lots of clear air below 7,000 and that was pretty early in my flying 
career.   Anymore I would just continue to refuse the clearance.   If ATC 
wanted to push it we would be exchanging phone numbers, and discussing FAR’s 
regarding the PIC’s authority.

Mark

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 4:14 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
> 
> I would have declared the emergency before climbing.
> 
> On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:
>> Had that conversation before:
>> 
>> Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
>> 23M: Unable due to icing
>> Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
>> 23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
>> Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
>> 23M: leaving 6 for 8
>> 
>> 4 minutes later:
>> 
>> 23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
>> Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
>> 23M: Not collecting ice
>> 
>> Grrr…
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
>>> denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is 
>>> needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination that I 
>>> could start descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the descent.  
>>> Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed 
>>> decrease, though.
>>> 
>>> On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
 That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in the 
 freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, and 
 watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.
 
 
 bp
 
 
 On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
> I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've gotten 
> is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.
> 
> On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Not sure I would trust it. 
>>  
>> Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
>> worldview on ice changes...
>>  
>> From: Bruce Robertson 
>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
>> To:  af@afmug.com 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
>>  
>> Lemme rephrase... a passive anti-ice that doesn't require refilling or 
>> inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)
>> 
>> On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> TKS
>>>  
>>> From: Bruce Robertson 
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
>>>  
>>> I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!
>>> 
>>> On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
 lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.
 
 This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti 
 ice coating. 
 Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?
  
 https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away
  
 
 
 -- 
 
 bp
 
 
>>> 
>> 
> 
 
>>> 
>> 
>> !DSPAM:2,57226e7e18618616799!
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

I take that back.  I would have said, "*unable*, please make another plan."

On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is 
needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination 
that I could start descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the 
descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw 
the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in 
the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, 
and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out 
of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in 
clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help 
for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the 
winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp














!DSPAM:2,57226e7e18618616799! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

I would have declared the emergency before climbing.


On 04/28/2016 01:11 PM, Mark Radabaugh wrote:

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson > wrote:


I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is 
needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination 
that I could start descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the 
descent.  Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw 
the airspeed decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in 
the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, 
and watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out 
of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in 
clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help 
for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the 
winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a 
"durable" anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp














!DSPAM:2,57226e7e18618616799! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Mark Radabaugh]

Had that conversation before:

Toledo Tracon:  23Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: Unable due to icing
Toledo: 23 Mike, Detroit needs you at 8000’
23M: We are going to pick up ice at 8000’, unable
Toledo: 23 Mike, climb and maintain 8000’
23M: leaving 6 for 8

4 minutes later:

23M: Toledo, 23M is declaring an emergency, leaving 8000 for 6000
Toledo: 23M, if able maintain 6000, state your intentions.
23M: Not collecting ice

Grrr…

Mark

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Bruce Robertson  wrote:
> 
> I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was denying 
> me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask.  Which is needed above 
> FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination that I could start 
> descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the descent.  Oh, and i wasn't 
> near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed decrease, though.
> 
> On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in the 
>> freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, and watching 
>> the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:
>>> I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've gotten 
>>> is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.
>>> 
>>> On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
 Not sure I would trust it. 
  
 Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
 worldview on ice changes...
  
 From: Bruce Robertson 
 Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
 To: af@afmug.com 
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
  
 Lemme rephrase... a passive anti-ice that doesn't require refilling or 
 inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)
 
 On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
> TKS
>  
> From: Bruce Robertson 
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents
>  
> I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!
> 
> On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
>> lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.
>> 
>> This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti 
>> ice coating. 
>> Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?
>> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
> 
 
>>> 
>> 
>> !DSPAM:2,572269ae156489778211817!
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Chuck McCown]

I made myself a personal minimums checklist after that.  Some of the items I 
remember are:

Turn on full defrost prior to entering anything but blue sky.
Turn off moving map, look at the HSI only for nav.
Carry more speed than what you trained for.  
Get the F&*#$%G WINDS before you pick the runway!!!

That was a bad day indeed.  Bad day...


From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:47 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've gotten is 
about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.




On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  Not sure I would trust it.  

  Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your worldview 
on ice changes...

  From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

  Lemme rephrase... a passive anti-ice that doesn't require refilling or 
inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)




  On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!




On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a lot 
of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.

  This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti 
ice coating. 


  Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?



https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away




-- 

bp






  !DSPAM:2,57226880154391766829559! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

I had a whole lot more altitude capability, but I was at 17k, ATC was 
denying me FL180, and I only had an O2 cannula, not a mask. Which is 
needed above FL180.  Fortunately I was near enough my destination that I 
could start descending.  The wings shed all the ice during the descent.  
Oh, and i wasn't near gross weight, whew!  Definitely saw the airspeed 
decrease, though.



On 04/28/2016 12:51 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in 
the freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, and 
watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require 
refilling or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in 
clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help 
for a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the 
winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp










!DSPAM:2,572269ae156489778211817! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bill Prince]

That is what I think of as sphincter exercise. Nothing like being in the 
freezing clouds, at gross weight, at or near maximum altitude, and 
watching the ice grow on the leading edge. Oh dear.



bp


On 4/28/2016 12:47 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require refilling 
or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for 
a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter 
time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp






!DSPAM:2,57226880154391766829559! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

I've managed to avoid that so far, thank you very much.  Most I've 
gotten is about a half inch of mixed, and that scared the @#$% out of me.



On 04/28/2016 12:46 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

Not sure I would trust it.
Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your 
worldview on ice changes...

*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require refilling 
or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for 
a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp






!DSPAM:2,57226880154391766829559! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bill Prince]

I'm thinking teflon wings...


bp


On 4/28/2016 12:40 PM, Bruce Robertson wrote:


Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require refilling 
or inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for 
a lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp




!DSPAM:2,572260a0141188563315574! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Chuck McCown]

Not sure I would trust it.  

Once you get an inch of ice from supercooled liquid droplets, your worldview on 
ice changes...

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:40 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

Lemme rephrase... a passive anti-ice that doesn't require refilling or 
inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)




On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

  TKS

  From: Bruce Robertson 
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

  I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!




  On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a lot 
of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.

This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti ice 
coating. 


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away




-- 

bp




  !DSPAM:2,572260a0141188563315574! 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

[Chuck McCown]

I am thinking more along the lines of a phrase to use on a telemarketer...
“go sell your sh*t in Boston...”

From: Joshaven Mailing Lists 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:30 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

So the moral of the story is that we all just need to eat more Menudo? 

Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
Google Hangouts: j...@g2wireless.co
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com




  On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 wrote:

  This is actually a big deal, healthy gut flora is solid gold. its hard to 
find people whos guts havent been destroyed by antibiotics though

  On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

http://www.openbiome.org/stool-donation/




  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

Lemme rephrase... a /passive/ anti-ice that doesn't require refilling or 
inflating with air.  And doesn't mean "don't fly in clouds."  :-)



On 04/28/2016 12:12 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

TKS
*From:* Bruce Robertson 
*Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp




!DSPAM:2,572260a0141188563315574! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bill Prince]

Those work pretty darn well on microwave dishes, but kinda suck on solar 
panels.



bp


On 4/28/2016 8:43 AM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Black Hefty garbage bags are still the best thing we ever found.

Travis


On 4/28/2016 9:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" 
anti ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

[Joshaven Mailing Lists]

So the moral of the story is that we all just need to eat more Menudo?

Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
Google Hangouts: j...@g2wireless.co
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com



> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:22 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is actually a big deal, healthy gut flora is solid gold. its hard to 
> find people whos guts havent been destroyed by antibiotics though
> 
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Chuck McCown  > wrote:
> http://www.openbiome.org/stool-donation/ 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] PacketFlux Site Monitor Switch

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Most of the inputs to the site monitor are ground referenced.  In fact one
of the connections labeled switch input is actually tied to ground.

If you have any sort of reference to ground tied in to the circuit hooked
to the switch input things will likely act oddly.
On Apr 27, 2016 3:11 PM, "Scott Vander Dussen"  wrote:

> Enclosure with a door relay switch.  When the door is open the relay
> switch turns on a light, and trips the site monitor's switch input to send
> an alert that the door is open.
>
> When the circuit is connected as show in the attached PNG the site monitor
> always reads the switch input as 1 or connected regardless of the state of
> the door switch relay.  When we reverse the wires going into the site
> monitor switch input everything works perfectly.  So when the door relay
> switch's C is connected to the right hand side of the switch input and the
> NO is connected to the left it works as expected.
>
> This totally does NOT make sense to me at all :/
>
> I thought perhaps the Site Monitor was bridging the switch inputs and the
> negative rail of the power source internally.  To test that theory I
> connected a different power supply directly to the Site Monitor that was
> separate from the power supply used for the light and network switch and
> also connected to the door relay switch.  But even in this state it
> performed the exact same.  I must be missing something?
>
> Scott
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

This is actually a big deal, healthy gut flora is solid gold. its hard to
find people whos guts havent been destroyed by antibiotics though

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> http://www.openbiome.org/stool-donation/
>



-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

The 450i needs either a syncbox 12 or a syncinjector.  They need to be
revision I0 or later.
On Apr 28, 2016 11:53 AM, "George Skorup"  wrote:

> Now for the 450i, didn't Forrest say something about them not liking the
> sync from his SyncPipe?
>
> On 4/28/2016 12:01 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> They only do timing, not ethernet.  You run dedicated timing cables from
> the AP to the SyncBox, and then Cat5 from the AP to the Netonix switch for
> power+data.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  > wrote:
>
>> I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `S
>>
>> ---
>> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using
>> SyncBox 12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This
>> allows us to run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.
>> The FSK/450 gets timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the
>> WS-12-250-DC.  No need for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in
>> this scenario.  Just an idea.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)
>>>  I wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of
>>> the Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in
>>> the enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical
>>> to step down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in
>>> the WS but it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)
>>>
>>> With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3%
>>> voltage drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily
>>> be tuned up to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in
>>> the 1016 Mikrotik and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is
>>> fully DC, finally!
>>>
>>> I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> 'S
>>>
>>> Sent mobile!
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are
>>> running DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the
>>> WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more
>>> efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4
>>> batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?
>>>
>>> Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is
>>> fine if you would like.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:



 Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk

 ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available)
 http://goo.gl/GkOBBW

 12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to
 make 24v) http://goo.gl/rCXciW

 3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking
 http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP

 MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ

 6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors
 http://goo.gl/8x5fcg



 The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total
 height.  There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U
 battery trays.  The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to
 everything, with the exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for
 battery management and monitoring.



 Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP
 transceivers linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP
 compatibility.  So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber
 goes directly into the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from
 enclosure).  The CCR1016 then has all the backhauls directly connected via
 fiber, and the APs are grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8
 APs there’s a full gig to the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if
 you added 6 SyncInjectors total).  The enclosures are standardized so we
 are building to have hot spares on standby ready to go in the event of a
 catastrophic failure.



 I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:

 1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1

 Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC
 Simplex to Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm



 `S





 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
 *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject

[AFMUG] B11 stock?

[Gino Villarini]

who has 4 radios and 4 2' antennas?

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Chuck McCown]

TKS

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 1:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!




On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

  This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a lot of 
equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.

  This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti ice 
coating. 


  Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?



https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away




-- 

bp


!DSPAM:2,57222c4346433130172988! 

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bruce Robertson]

I'm interested in it as a pilot.  Gimme wings that don't ice up!


On 04/28/2016 08:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti 
ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp


!DSPAM:2,57222c4346433130172988! 

[AFMUG] OT Short on cash?

[Chuck McCown]

http://www.openbiome.org/stool-donation/

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Jaime Solorza]

We replaced Sonicwall with Light speed system and never looked back
On Apr 28, 2016 12:27 PM, "Josh Reynolds"  wrote:

> LOL :)
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Chris Wright  wrote:
> > I've come to a point where I get physically ill when I hear Sonicwall
> and PPPoE in the same sentence. Do yourself a favor and weld a chain and
> I-hook to it so you can use it as a flail for destroying more Sonicwalls.
> >
> > Chris Wright
> > Network Administrator
> > Velociter Wireless
> > 209-838-1221 x115
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:55 AM
> > To: af@afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE
> >
> > +1
> > Sonicwalls are terrible
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> >> Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.
> >>
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect
> >>> too PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Josh Reynolds]

LOL :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Chris Wright  wrote:
> I've come to a point where I get physically ill when I hear Sonicwall and 
> PPPoE in the same sentence. Do yourself a favor and weld a chain and I-hook 
> to it so you can use it as a flail for destroying more Sonicwalls.
>
> Chris Wright
> Network Administrator
> Velociter Wireless
> 209-838-1221 x115
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:55 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE
>
> +1
> Sonicwalls are terrible
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Josh Luthman  
> wrote:
>> Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt  wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect
>>> too PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Chris Wright]

I've come to a point where I get physically ill when I hear Sonicwall and PPPoE 
in the same sentence. Do yourself a favor and weld a chain and I-hook to it so 
you can use it as a flail for destroying more Sonicwalls.

Chris Wright
Network Administrator
Velociter Wireless
209-838-1221 x115

-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:55 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

+1
Sonicwalls are terrible

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Josh Luthman  
wrote:
> Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt  wrote:
>>
>> Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect 
>> too PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Josh Baird]

Good question.. I don't have any 450i, so I haven't been paying close
attention to it.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:53 PM, George Skorup  wrote:

> Now for the 450i, didn't Forrest say something about them not liking the
> sync from his SyncPipe?
>
> On 4/28/2016 12:01 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> They only do timing, not ethernet.  You run dedicated timing cables from
> the AP to the SyncBox, and then Cat5 from the AP to the Netonix switch for
> power+data.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  > wrote:
>
>> I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> `S
>>
>> ---
>> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird < 
>> joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using
>> SyncBox 12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This
>> allows us to run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.
>> The FSK/450 gets timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the
>> WS-12-250-DC.  No need for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in
>> this scenario.  Just an idea.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)
>>>  I wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of
>>> the Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in
>>> the enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical
>>> to step down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in
>>> the WS but it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)
>>>
>>> With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3%
>>> voltage drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily
>>> be tuned up to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in
>>> the 1016 Mikrotik and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is
>>> fully DC, finally!
>>>
>>> I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> 'S
>>>
>>> Sent mobile!
>>>
>>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>>
>>> Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are
>>> running DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the
>>> WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more
>>> efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4
>>> batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?
>>>
>>> Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is
>>> fine if you would like.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:



 Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack 
 http://goo.gl/pbpnbk

 ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available)
 http://goo.gl/GkOBBW

 12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to
 make 24v) http://goo.gl/rCXciW

 3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking
 http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP

 MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ

 6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors
 http://goo.gl/8x5fcg



 The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total
 height.  There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U
 battery trays.  The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to
 everything, with the exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for
 battery management and monitoring.



 Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP
 transceivers linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP
 compatibility.  So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber
 goes directly into the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from
 enclosure).  The CCR1016 then has all the backhauls directly connected via
 fiber, and the APs are grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8
 APs there’s a full gig to the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if
 you added 6 SyncInjectors total).  The enclosures are standardized so we
 are building to have hot spares on standby ready to go in the event of a
 catastrophic failure.



 I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:

 1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord 
 http://goo.gl/mKVXG1

 Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC
 Simplex to Male SC UPC Simplex, 
 ht

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Josh Reynolds]

+1
Sonicwalls are terrible

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Josh Luthman
 wrote:
> Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt  wrote:
>>
>> Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect too
>> PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[George Skorup]

Now for the 450i, didn't Forrest say something about them not liking the 
sync from his SyncPipe?


On 4/28/2016 12:01 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
They only do timing, not ethernet.  You run dedicated timing cables 
from the AP to the SyncBox, and then Cat5 from the AP to the Netonix 
switch for power+data.


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:


I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at
using SyncBox 12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I
guess).  This allows us to run 48V up the tower which we use to
power WS-12-250-DC's.  The FSK/450 gets timing port sync from the
SyncBox and 24V power from the WS-12-250-DC.  No need for
separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in this scenario. 
Just an idea.


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v
to them! :)  I wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just
stated but because much of the Cambium equipment is only 24v
this meant having a DC DC converter in the enclosure which is
another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure
is in the WS but it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's
not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less
than 3% voltage drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The
rectifier can easily be tuned up to 27v to offset any drop.
Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik and run
it direct DC since it takes 24vdc. Everything is fully DC,
finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially
since you are running DC up the tower where voltage drop may
be a concern.  I realize the WS-12-250-DC's will
automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you
already have 4 batteries at the base, what is keeping you
from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?
Off-list is fine if you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

Thanks! The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk

ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version
available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW

12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel
and series to make 24v) http://goo.gl/rCXciW

3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer
Networking http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP

MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ

6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM
Connectors http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just
under 4U of total height.  There is enough room in the
12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  The
MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to
everything, with the exception of one copper eth cable
to the rectifier for battery management and monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the
BiDi SFP transceivers linked on the SMM Details.PDF
parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  So we
use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber
goes directly into the fiber patch panel (fiber run in
liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 then has all
the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs
are grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8
APs there’s a full gig to the router. (You could have 12
APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors total).  The
enclosures are standardized so we are building to have
hot spares on standby ready to go in the event of a
catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:

1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1

Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber,
Male SC UPC Simplex to Male SC UPC Simplex,
  

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Wireless Administrator]

+1

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

 

Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt  wrote:

Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect too
PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?

 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Jaime Solorza]

20.00

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:11 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Breakers like that are around $20-30 each right?
>
>
> On 4/28/2016 12:55 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Oops
> On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
> wrote:
>
>> Like.  How much to just build three for us?
>>
>> On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David < 
>> dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>>
 I built a CMM for 2016!

 Highlights:

 * Gigabit everything

 * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

 * Sync/Power up to 24 devices

 * Power 24v and 48v devices

 * Temperature monitoring

 * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

 * Fan seizure notification

 * LED light strip controlled by door

 * Door alarm trigger

 * Hoist pull loop

 * 20" x 18" x 10"

 * 36lbs

 * Price circa $2100

 Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
 Parts list here:
 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

 Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

 [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Josh Baird]

This is what I use:

http://www.alliedelec.com/altech-corp-ddfl4u/70078329/

Fused distribution when combined with jumper bars (another part #).

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 1:11 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Breakers like that are around $20-30 each right?
>
>
> On 4/28/2016 12:55 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>
> Oops
> On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" 
> wrote:
>
>> Like.  How much to just build three for us?
>>
>> On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David < 
>> dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>>
 I built a CMM for 2016!

 Highlights:

 * Gigabit everything

 * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

 * Sync/Power up to 24 devices

 * Power 24v and 48v devices

 * Temperature monitoring

 * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

 * Fan seizure notification

 * LED light strip controlled by door

 * Door alarm trigger

 * Hoist pull loop

 * 20" x 18" x 10"

 * 36lbs

 * Price circa $2100

 Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
 Parts list here:
 
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

 Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

 [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Adam Moffett]

You'll probably find a knowledge base article saying that not keeping 
the PPPoE session up makes it more secure.


On 4/28/2016 1:15 PM, Paul Stewart wrote:


ROFL … that’s funny – but it’s also true…

In my former employer, we were deployed managed Juniper SRX boxes to 
customers who had Sonicwalls specifically for that reason… they 
couldn’t seem to get stable PPPOE sessions for some reason … found it 
kind of hilarious …


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
*Sent:* April 28, 2016 12:31 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt > wrote:


Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect too
PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Paul Stewart]

ROFL … that’s funny – but it’s also true…

 

In my former employer, we were deployed managed Juniper SRX boxes to customers 
who had Sonicwalls specifically for that reason… they couldn’t seem to get 
stable PPPOE sessions for some reason … found it kind of hilarious … 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: April 28, 2016 12:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

 

Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.




 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt mailto:matt.mailingli...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect too
PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?

 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Adam Moffett]

Breakers like that are around $20-30 each right?


On 4/28/2016 12:55 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


Oops

On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan" > wrote:


Like.  How much to just build three for us?

On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David mailto:dmilho...@wletc.com>> wrote:

Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)


On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

This looks nice.  Good job. What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by
rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?


[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] Brocade Quote?

[Joe Novak]

Cisco, Juniper, Brocade all do this I believe... it's just a 'thing' they
do I guess?

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> That's funny...why even have a reseller after doing that much work?
>
>
> On 4/28/2016 11:24 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> Call Brocade and they will likely recommend someone. When we purchased the
> Brocade guys met with us directly, specified everything, built the quote,
> then handed it off to their largest reseller. I wonder why they were the
> largest?
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:17 AM Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> We are working on a erate project requiring Brocade gear.  Any good VAR
>> or Disti to work with?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Josh Baird]

They only do timing, not ethernet.  You run dedicated timing cables from
the AP to the SyncBox, and then Cat5 from the AP to the Netonix switch for
power+data.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:

> I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?
>
> Thanks,
> `S
>
> ---
> Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using
> SyncBox 12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This
> allows us to run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.
> The FSK/450 gets timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the
> WS-12-250-DC.  No need for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in
> this scenario.  Just an idea.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen  > wrote:
>
>> I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)
>>  I wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of
>> the Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in
>> the enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical
>> to step down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in
>> the WS but it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)
>>
>> With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3%
>> voltage drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily
>> be tuned up to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in
>> the 1016 Mikrotik and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is
>> fully DC, finally!
>>
>> I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> 'S
>>
>> Sent mobile!
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird  wrote:
>>
>> Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are
>> running DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the
>> WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more
>> efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4
>> batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?
>>
>> Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is
>> fine if you would like.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Josh
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
>>>
>>> ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available)
>>> http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
>>>
>>> 12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to
>>> make 24v) http://goo.gl/rCXciW
>>>
>>> 3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking
>>> http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
>>>
>>> MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
>>>
>>> 6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors
>>> http://goo.gl/8x5fcg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total
>>> height.  There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U
>>> battery trays.  The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to
>>> everything, with the exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for
>>> battery management and monitoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP
>>> transceivers linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP
>>> compatibility.  So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber
>>> goes directly into the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from
>>> enclosure).  The CCR1016 then has all the backhauls directly connected via
>>> fiber, and the APs are grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8
>>> APs there’s a full gig to the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if
>>> you added 6 SyncInjectors total).  The enclosures are standardized so we
>>> are building to have hot spares on standby ready to go in the event of a
>>> catastrophic failure.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
>>>
>>> 1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
>>>
>>> Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex
>>> to Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> `S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen <
>>> sc...@velociter.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I built a CMM for 2016!
>>>
>>> Highlights:
>>>
>>> * Gigabit everything
>>>
>>> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>>>
>>> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>>>
>>> * Power 24v a

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Ken Hohhof]

You’ll need to go see the new movie “Finding Dory”.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2277860/


From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 11:24 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

I hear you Chuck...I am having hard time remembering things..must be all the 
healthy stuff I eat...I will increase my Tecate intake...bet it helps 

On Apr 28, 2016 7:54 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I really don’t recall.  

  From: Cassidy B. Larson 
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:50 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

  Do you pay per notice, per customer, or a flat one time fee? Costs?





On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Yes, we use it all the time.  Works great.  

From: Paul McCall
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

Have you used this Chuck?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance

From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.

I need to know how to do this

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Jaime Solorza]

Like these
On Apr 28, 2016 9:31 AM, "Brian Sullivan"  wrote:

> Like.  How much to just build three for us?
>
> On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David  wrote:
>
>> Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)
>>
>>
>> On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen > > wrote:
>>
>>> I built a CMM for 2016!
>>>
>>> Highlights:
>>>
>>> * Gigabit everything
>>>
>>> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>>>
>>> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>>>
>>> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>>>
>>> * Temperature monitoring
>>>
>>> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>>>
>>> * Fan seizure notification
>>>
>>> * LED light strip controlled by door
>>>
>>> * Door alarm trigger
>>>
>>> * Hoist pull loop
>>>
>>> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>>>
>>> * 36lbs
>>>
>>> * Price circa $2100
>>>
>>> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
>>> Parts list here:
>>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>>>
>>> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>>>
>>> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Mike Hammett]

It does, but it isn't meant for residential use. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Adam Moffett"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 11:28:37 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players 

Radwin Jet has some kind of smallish limit on the number of stations right? Or 
am I conflating it with something else? 



On 4/28/2016 12:21 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote: 



They won Tessco show award the reps were dicks though... 
On Apr 28, 2016 9:03 AM, "Eric Muehleisen" < ericm...@gmail.com > wrote: 



Radwin Jet series comes to mind. 


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Adam Moffett < dmmoff...@gmail.com > wrote: 


* Telrad 

* Baicells 

* Mimosa 

* Ubiquiti 

* Cambium 

Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of? Is there anybody else who 
brings anything interesting to the table? 

Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Adam Moffett]

Thanks.  I had forgotten about some of these guys.


On 4/28/2016 12:51 PM, Stefan Englhardt wrote:

Proxim
Mercury
Redline
Ligowave
Infinet
Repeatit


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Adam Moffett
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2016 16:52
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

* Telrad

* Baicells

* Mimosa

* Ubiquiti

* Cambium

Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of?  Is there anybody else who 
brings anything interesting to the table?

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Jaime Solorza]

Why didn't you use fuses on your terminal block?   nice work...

Jaime Solorza
Wireless Systems Architect
915-861-1390

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:

> I built a CMM for 2016!
>
> Highlights:
>
> * Gigabit everything
>
> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>
> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>
> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>
> * Temperature monitoring
>
> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>
> * Fan seizure notification
>
> * LED light strip controlled by door
>
> * Door alarm trigger
>
> * Hoist pull loop
>
> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>
> * 36lbs
>
> * Price circa $2100
>
> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
> Parts list here:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>
> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>
> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
>

Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Stefan Englhardt]

Proxim
Mercury
Redline
Ligowave
Infinet
Repeatit


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] Im Auftrag von Adam Moffett
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2016 16:52
An: af@afmug.com
Betreff: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

* Telrad

* Baicells

* Mimosa

* Ubiquiti

* Cambium

Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of?  Is there anybody else who 
brings anything interesting to the table?

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Adam Moffett]

Put a neoprene washer under the bolt, and a bead of silicone behind the 
strut.  Even if it someday down the road it started weeping during the 
rain it would just fall out through your condensate drain.


.I didn't read your parts list though.  If you /don't/ have a 
condensate drain you should think about that.



On 4/28/2016 12:40 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

Yeah I feel the same. The two are going into reinforced embedded threads- 
adding more would mean a penetration to the box :/ maybe JB weld the strut on 
there too!

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.


On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:37, Adam Moffett  wrote:

Very nice.

Just an opinion, but I would put a few more bolts into that mounting strut.  
I'm guessing you've got one in each corner.  Even low grade steel bolts are 
staggeringly strong, but if you had a bad one then suddenly you're hanging on 
one bolt.



On 4/27/2016 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I considered those but they're not gigabit, correct?

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:39, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using SyncBox 
12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This allows us to 
run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.  The FSK/450 gets 
timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the WS-12-250-DC.  No need 
for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in this scenario.  Just an idea.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)  I 
wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of the 
Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in the 
enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step 
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in the WS but 
it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3% voltage 
drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily be tuned up 
to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik 
and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is fully DC, finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions 

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Yeah I feel the same. The two are going into reinforced embedded threads- 
adding more would mean a penetration to the box :/ maybe JB weld the strut on 
there too! 

Thanks,
`S

---
Sent mobile, typed by thumbs.

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:37, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Very nice.
> 
> Just an opinion, but I would put a few more bolts into that mounting strut.  
> I'm guessing you've got one in each corner.  Even low grade steel bolts are 
> staggeringly strong, but if you had a bad one then suddenly you're hanging on 
> one bolt.
> 
> 
>> On 4/27/2016 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:
>> I built a CMM for 2016!
>> 
>> Highlights:
>> 
>> * Gigabit everything
>> 
>> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>> 
>> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>> 
>> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>> 
>> * Temperature monitoring
>> 
>> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>> 
>> * Fan seizure notification
>> 
>> * LED light strip controlled by door
>> 
>> * Door alarm trigger
>> 
>> * Hoist pull loop
>> 
>> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>> 
>> * 36lbs
>> 
>> * Price circa $2100
>> 
>> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
>> Parts list here: 
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>> 
>> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>> 
>> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Chuck McCown]

I need to defrag...

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:24 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

I hear you Chuck...I am having hard time remembering things..must be all the 
healthy stuff I eat...I will increase my Tecate intake...bet it helps 

On Apr 28, 2016 7:54 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

  I really don’t recall.  

  From: Cassidy B. Larson 
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:50 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

  Do you pay per notice, per customer, or a flat one time fee? Costs?





On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Yes, we use it all the time.  Works great.  

From: Paul McCall
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

Have you used this Chuck?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance

From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.

I need to know how to do this

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Unicorn GigE POE Splitter??

[Sterling Jacobson]

Ok, thanks!

I guess I would need a male to male round connector adapter for the splitter 
side to get it in to the round DC port.

Have a part number or cheap source for that?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joshaven Mailing Lists
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 9:09 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Unicorn GigE POE Splitter??

I think the MikroTik RBGPOE is what your looking for:

Mikrotik Site:http://routerboard.com/RBGPOE
Streak wave: 
https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=RB%2FGPOE&eq=&Tp=&o1=0
ISPSupplies:  
http://www.ispsupplies.com/categories/Power-Products-POE_2/MikroTik-RouterBOARD-RBGPOE.html

Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
Google Hangouts: j...@g2wireless.co
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com


On Apr 21, 2016, at 2:00 PM, Chuck Hogg 
mailto:ch...@shelbybb.com>> wrote:

https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=POE-INJ-S ?

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 1:16 PM, Sterling Jacobson 
mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
I can't seem to find a simple splitter for this GigE injector we use all over 
the place:

https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=POE-INJ-1000-S&eq=&Tp=&o1=0

Tycon says they don't have one, but have some convoluted expensive fandangled 
combination splitter that would work.

I just want one with the normal male RJ45 and mail DC round plug (that is 
compatible, GigE rated).

Any ideas?

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Josh Baird]

Oh, yeah, that was you!  That makes sense.  We are looking at using SyncBox
12's at the top just for timing FSK (and 450 too I guess).  This allows us
to run 48V up the tower which we use to power WS-12-250-DC's.  The FSK/450
gets timing port sync from the SyncBox and 24V power from the
WS-12-250-DC.  No need for separate SyncInjectors or DC-DC converters in
this scenario.  Just an idea.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 11:25 AM, Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:

> I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)
>  I wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of
> the Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in
> the enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical
> to step down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in
> the WS but it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)
>
> With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3%
> voltage drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily
> be tuned up to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in
> the 1016 Mikrotik and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is
> fully DC, finally!
>
> I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.
>
> Thanks,
> 'S
>
> Sent mobile!
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird  wrote:
>
> Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are
> running DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the
> WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more
> efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4
> batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?
>
> Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine
> if you would like.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Josh
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:
>>
>>
>>
>> Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
>>
>> ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available)
>> http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
>>
>> 12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make
>> 24v) http://goo.gl/rCXciW
>>
>> 3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking
>> http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
>>
>> MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
>>
>> 6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors
>> http://goo.gl/8x5fcg
>>
>>
>>
>> The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total
>> height.  There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U
>> battery trays.  The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to
>> everything, with the exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for
>> battery management and monitoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP
>> transceivers linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP
>> compatibility.  So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber
>> goes directly into the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from
>> enclosure).  The CCR1016 then has all the backhauls directly connected via
>> fiber, and the APs are grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8
>> APs there’s a full gig to the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if
>> you added 6 SyncInjectors total).  The enclosures are standardized so we
>> are building to have hot spares on standby ready to go in the event of a
>> catastrophic failure.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
>>
>> 1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
>>
>> Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex
>> to Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm
>>
>>
>>
>> `S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?
>>
>>
>>
>> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I built a CMM for 2016!
>>
>> Highlights:
>>
>> * Gigabit everything
>>
>> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>>
>> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>>
>> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>>
>> * Temperature monitoring
>>
>> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>>
>> * Fan seizure notification
>>
>> * LED light strip controlled by door
>>
>> * Door alarm trigger
>>
>> * Hoist pull loop
>>
>> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>>
>> * 36lbs
>>
>> * Price circa $2100
>>
>> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
>> Parts list here:
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>>
>> Any suggestions to ma

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Adam Moffett]

Very nice.

Just an opinion, but I would put a few more bolts into that mounting 
strut.  I'm guessing you've got one in each corner.  Even low grade 
steel bolts are staggeringly strong, but if you had a bad one then 
suddenly you're hanging on one bolt.



On 4/27/2016 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Josh Luthman]

Throw it in the trash and buy something worthwhile.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Matt  wrote:

> Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect too
> PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?
>

[AFMUG] Sonicwall and PPPoE

[Matt]

Is there some setting in a Sonicwall router to get it to reconnect too
PPPoE after rebooting the SM its behind?

Re: [AFMUG] Brocade Quote?

[Adam Moffett]

That's funny...why even have a reseller after doing that much work?


On 4/28/2016 11:24 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
Call Brocade and they will likely recommend someone. When we purchased 
the Brocade guys met with us directly, specified everything, built the 
quote, then handed it off to their largest reseller. I wonder why they 
were the largest?


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:17 AM Gino Villarini > wrote:


We are working on a erate project requiring Brocade gear.  Any
good VAR or Disti to work with?

Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Adam Moffett]

Radwin Jet has some kind of smallish limit on the number of stations 
right?  Or am I conflating it with something else?



On 4/28/2016 12:21 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:


They won Tessco show award the reps were dicks though...

On Apr 28, 2016 9:03 AM, "Eric Muehleisen" > wrote:


Radwin Jet series comes to mind.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

* Telrad

* Baicells

* Mimosa

* Ubiquiti

* Cambium

Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of?  Is there
anybody else who brings anything interesting to the table?

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

I'm the guy who just smoked a ring of FSK APs by running 48v to them! :)  I 
wanted to use 48v for the reasons you just stated but because much of the 
Cambium equipment is only 24v this meant having a DC DC converter in the 
enclosure which is another point of failure, expensive, and impractical to step 
down large wattages.  I understand the same point of failure is in the WS but 
it's integrated and hidden so I pretend it's not there. :)

With the 12awg SOOW we use even on a 600' run there is less than 3% voltage 
drop. The WS can take as little as 9VDC. The rectifier can easily be tuned up 
to 27v to offset any drop. Also we gut the AC DC supplies in the 1016 Mikrotik 
and run it direct DC since it takes 24vdc.  Everything is fully DC, finally!

I'll reply with ICT price when I'm back in the office.

Thanks,
'S

Sent mobile!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 09:15, Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are running 
DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the 
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more 
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4 
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine if 
you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it's fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there's a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we're using:
1000' 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Jaime Solorza]

I hear you Chuck...I am having hard time remembering things..must be all
the healthy stuff I eat...I will increase my Tecate intake...bet it helps
On Apr 28, 2016 7:54 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> I really don’t recall.
>
> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:50 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
>
> Do you pay per notice, per customer, or a flat one time fee? Costs?
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
> Yes, we use it all the time.  Works great.
>
> *From:* Paul McCall 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
>
> Have you used this Chuck?
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
>
> http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
>
> my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar
> across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.
> I need to know how to do this
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Jaime Solorza]

They won Tessco show award the reps were dicks though...
On Apr 28, 2016 9:03 AM, "Eric Muehleisen"  wrote:

> Radwin Jet series comes to mind.
>
> On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> * Telrad
>>
>> * Baicells
>>
>> * Mimosa
>>
>> * Ubiquiti
>>
>> * Cambium
>>
>> Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of?  Is there anybody else
>> who brings anything interesting to the table?
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Brocade Quote?

[Jaime Solorza]

Sending you contact offline
On Apr 28, 2016 9:17 AM, "Gino Villarini"  wrote:

> We are working on a erate project requiring Brocade gear.  Any good VAR or
> Disti to work with?
>

Re: [AFMUG] abuse reports on customer IPs

[Jon Auer]

If you run a rwhois server (or maybe whatever that new restful stuff) you
can note down to a /32.

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 9:17 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> isnt SWIP a minimum /29 though?
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:58 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> If it is a customer that operates a open public wifi AP like a coffee
>> shop, bar, restaurant, there is not a lot that you can do. Customer won't
>> stop running open wifi, people won't stop bringing in infected laptops. No
>> way to find out who has the infected laptops/devices.
>>
>> One possible solution if sufficient ARIN IP space is available is to put
>> all such customers in their own special swamp netblock as static
>> assignments. Consider that block forever sullied.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 6:54 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I know its bad practice, I normally enjoy turning customers off, it
>>> makes me feel godlike and powerful, alot of times when i get to shut one
>>> off i go upstairs and drag mu woman from her bed by her hair to the kitchen
>>> to make me a sammich. but for whatever reason i like this customer
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 5:31 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Spam and botnet activity is far more harmful to the health of your
 network and the IP reputation of your netblocks than anything DMCA related.


 torrents and DMCA notifications don't hurt the network. Knowingly
 leaving something that is a repository of virii/worms/trojans online is
 just bad practice.


 On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 7:09 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
 thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We have a particular customer, We have been getting tons of abuse
> reports on their static IP, I assume we will never be able to wash this
> sullied IP clean. Theyre not really doing any harm to our network, or
> impacting others on the network, they are in full breach of our TOS, thats
> for sure. suprisingly, its primarily spam and botnet activity, but no 
> DMCA.
>
> Is there any liability on us as an ISP to not address this
> affirmatively with the customer. Im going to contact them, may offer a
> leased fortigate UTM option. But if there isnt a resolution, other than
> their static IP residing on every blacklist can we get nailed?
>
> Its a good customer, pays their bill on time, worked with us through a
> service issue without the usual "gimme discounts and free shit or im going
> elsewhere" I dont want to HAVE to disconnect them if im not required to 
> and
> theyre not impacting others if they cant or wont resolve the issues
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your
> team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Josh Baird]

Interesting that you are using 24V and not 48V especially since you are
running DC up the tower where voltage drop may be a concern.  I realize the
WS-12-250-DC's will automatically up-convert to whatever, but they are more
efficient if you feed them a higher voltage (~48V).  If you already have 4
batteries at the base, what is keeping you from using a 48VDC rectifier?

Would you mind sharing the approximate cost of that ICT?  Off-list is fine
if you would like.

Thanks,

Josh

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
wrote:

> Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:
>
>
>
> Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
>
> ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available)
> http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
>
> 12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make
> 24v) http://goo.gl/rCXciW
>
> 3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking
> http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
>
> MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
>
> 6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors
> http://goo.gl/8x5fcg
>
>
>
> The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total
> height.  There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U
> battery trays.  The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to
> everything, with the exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for
> battery management and monitoring.
>
>
>
> Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP
> transceivers linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP
> compatibility.  So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber
> goes directly into the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from
> enclosure).  The CCR1016 then has all the backhauls directly connected via
> fiber, and the APs are grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8
> APs there’s a full gig to the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if
> you added 6 SyncInjectors total).  The enclosures are standardized so we
> are building to have hot spares on standby ready to go in the event of a
> catastrophic failure.
>
>
>
> I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
>
> 1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
>
> Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex
> to Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm
>
>
>
> `S
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?
>
>
>
> This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
> wrote:
>
> I built a CMM for 2016!
>
> Highlights:
>
> * Gigabit everything
>
> * BiDi fiber support for 6 devices
>
> * Sync/Power up to 24 devices
>
> * Power 24v and 48v devices
>
> * Temperature monitoring
>
> * Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor
>
> * Fan seizure notification
>
> * LED light strip controlled by door
>
> * Door alarm trigger
>
> * Hoist pull loop
>
> * 20" x 18" x 10"
>
> * 36lbs
>
> * Price circa $2100
>
> Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
> Parts list here:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf
>
> Any suggestions to make this more awesome?
>
> [http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Thanks!  The base of the tower is quite simple:

Kendall Howard 12U 19" Wall Mount Rack http://goo.gl/pbpnbk
ICT1200-24SBC 24v rectifier (also a 600W version available) http://goo.gl/GkOBBW
12v 45ah TR45-12 Tempest AGM Batteries (4x in parallel and series to make 24v) 
http://goo.gl/rCXciW
3U 19" Inch Rack Mount Shelf For Pro Audio and Computer Networking 
http://goo.gl/SJQ6DP
MikroTik CCR1016-12S-1S+ http://goo.gl/h5N4RQ
6 Port Rack Mount Fiber Enclosure Pre-Loaded with SC SM Connectors 
http://goo.gl/8x5fcg

The 4x batteries fit on the 3U tray and take up just under 4U of total height.  
There is enough room in the 12U rack for up to 2 of these 4U battery trays.  
The MikroTik is all SFP ports because we run fiber to everything, with the 
exception of one copper eth cable to the rectifier for battery management and 
monitoring.

Incidentally the Mimosa B11 backhauls will accept the BiDi SFP transceivers 
linked on the SMM Details.PDF parts list, provided they are HP compatibility.  
So we use the switch to power the B11s and then it’s fiber goes directly into 
the fiber patch panel (fiber run in liquidtight from enclosure).  The CCR1016 
then has all the backhauls directly connected via fiber, and the APs are 
grouped 8 APs per switch (per fiber) so for every 8 APs there’s a full gig to 
the router.  (You could have 12 APs per switch if you added 6 SyncInjectors 
total).  The enclosures are standardized so we are building to have hot spares 
on standby ready to go in the event of a catastrophic failure.

I was asked offline about what DC/fiber we’re using:
1000’ 12/4 SOOW SO 600V Power Cord http://goo.gl/mKVXG1
Armored outdoor OS2 singlemode 9/125 6-strand fiber, Male SC UPC Simplex to 
Male SC UPC Simplex, http://www.best-tronics.com/fiber.htm

`S


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Baird
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 04:32
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen 
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:
I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

Re: [AFMUG] Brocade Quote?

[Erich Kaiser]

Gino, hit me offlist, we are brocade dealer.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 630-621-4804
Cell: 630-777-9291


On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Gino Villarini 
wrote:

> We are working on a erate project requiring Brocade gear.  Any good VAR or
> Disti to work with?
>

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Travis Johnson]

Black Hefty garbage bags are still the best thing we ever found.

Travis


On 4/28/2016 9:29 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti 
ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp

[AFMUG] ptp 450 revisited

[Jerry Head]

Can one upgrade directly to 14.1.1 from 13.4?

Re: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Chuck McCown]

Yes, have been watching this.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:29 AM
To: Motorola III 
Subject: [AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a lot of 
equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.

This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti ice 
coating. 


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?


  https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away




-- 

bp

Re: [AFMUG] CMM for 2016 What's in the box?

[Brian Sullivan]

Like.  How much to just build three for us?

On 4/28/2016 7:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

Hopefully you don't have rackmount at the top of your towers.  :)

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:57 AM, David > wrote:


Now we need rack mount since 99% of mine are all rackmount :)


On 04/28/2016 06:32 AM, Josh Baird wrote:

This looks nice.  Good job.  What all do you have at the bottom?

On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Scott Vander Dussen
mailto:sc...@velociter.net>> wrote:

I built a CMM for 2016!

Highlights:

* Gigabit everything

* BiDi fiber support for 6 devices

* Sync/Power up to 24 devices

* Power 24v and 48v devices

* Temperature monitoring

* Fan ventilation controlled by rain/condensation sensor

* Fan seizure notification

* LED light strip controlled by door

* Door alarm trigger

* Hoist pull loop

* 20" x 18" x 10"

* 36lbs

* Price circa $2100

Photo here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM.jpg
Parts list here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6582330/WebJunk/SMM%20Details.pdf

Any suggestions to make this more awesome?

[http://www.flutecrate.com/uploads/1/0/2/0/10200817/5243300_orig.jpg]

[AFMUG] Durable ice repellents

[Bill Prince]

This is the wrong time of year for this, but it sure would help for a 
lot of equipment icing issues some of you guys see in the winter time.


This describes a polymer plus lubricant that can make a "durable" anti 
ice coating.


Hey Chuck, bet you are interested in this?

   
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-process-encourages-ice-slip-slide-away


--

bp

Re: [AFMUG] Brocade Quote?

[Lewis Bergman]

Call Brocade and they will likely recommend someone. When we purchased the
Brocade guys met with us directly, specified everything, built the quote,
then handed it off to their largest reseller. I wonder why they were the
largest?

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 10:17 AM Gino Villarini  wrote:

> We are working on a erate project requiring Brocade gear.  Any good VAR or
> Disti to work with?
>

[AFMUG] Brocade Quote?

[Gino Villarini]

We are working on a erate project requiring Brocade gear.  Any good VAR or
Disti to work with?

Re: [AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Eric Muehleisen]

Radwin Jet series comes to mind.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:

> * Telrad
>
> * Baicells
>
> * Mimosa
>
> * Ubiquiti
>
> * Cambium
>
> Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of?  Is there anybody else who
> brings anything interesting to the table?
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Current PTMP wireless players

[Adam Moffett]

* Telrad

* Baicells

* Mimosa

* Ubiquiti

* Cambium

Who else is out there that I'm not thinking of?  Is there anybody else 
who brings anything interesting to the table?

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Chuck McCown]

I really don’t recall.  

From: Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

Do you pay per notice, per customer, or a flat one time fee? Costs?





  On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Yes, we use it all the time.  Works great.  

  From: Paul McCall
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

  Have you used this Chuck?
   
  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
   
  http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance
   
  From: That One Guy /sarcasm
  Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
   
  my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.

  I need to know how to do this
   
  -- 
  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Do you pay per notice, per customer, or a flat one time fee? Costs?



> On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:37 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Yes, we use it all the time.  Works great.
> 
> From: Paul McCall 
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:33 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
> 
> Have you used this Chuck?
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On 
> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
> 
> http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance 
> 
> 
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
> To: af@afmug.com 
> Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
> 
> my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
> across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.
> I need to know how to do this
> 
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Chuck McCown]

Yes, we use it all the time.  Works great.  

From: Paul McCall 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

Have you used this Chuck?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

 

http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance

 

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 

Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

 

my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.


I need to know how to do this

 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Paul McCall]

Have you used this Chuck?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 9:19 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance

From: That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.
I need to know how to do this

--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Josh Reynolds]

That... Sounds awesome
On Apr 28, 2016 8:18 AM, "Chuck McCown"  wrote:

> http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace
>
> my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar
> across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.
> I need to know how to do this
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

[Chris Fabien]

Craig how are you getting the 5yr warranty?
On Apr 28, 2016 9:01 AM, "Craig Schmaderer" 
wrote:

> If you use consumer connect the are even cheaper.  Best routers i have
> ever sold.  We are starting to use their gigapoints with a 844E and sell a
> $7 managed service.  We have about a 90% take rate.  I also get them with 5
> year warrantys so i know i will never loose money on them. They also have
> an app for the home owner that we are starting to use.
>
> Craig schmaderer
> Skywave Wireless, Inc.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM -0700, "Chuck McCown" 
> wrote:
>
> We have been renting them out for $8/mo
> Nice thing is we can totally get in and troubleshoot anything.
> And the parents can control which devices and which services they allow
> their kids to use.
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:39 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways
>
> Best router ever!  Highly recommend them.
>
> We sell it as a managed wifi service instead of selling just the router.
> Customer pays $99 "setup fee" and $12/mo.  Clients love them and so do our
> support staff.
>
> -Sean
>
> On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Gino Villarini  wrote:
>
>> We are looking for a Home Gateway / Router that supports 802.11AC wifi
>> and gigabit speeds on the LAN.
>> I have read that Calix is a good option, what is the cost? Experience
>> with them or others?
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

[Chuck McCown]

http://www.perftech.com/#carrier-grade-performance

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 12:04 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] Browser bar that says there will be maintenace

my home internet connection tonite has this awesomely beautiful gawdy bar 
across my web browser that says theyre doing maintenance tonite.

I need to know how to do this

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

[Craig Schmaderer]

If you use consumer connect the are even cheaper.  Best routers i have ever 
sold.  We are starting to use their gigapoints with a 844E and sell a $7 
managed service.  We have about a 90% take rate.  I also get them with 5 year 
warrantys so i know i will never loose money on them. They also have an app for 
the home owner that we are starting to use.

Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 10:04 AM -0700, "Chuck McCown" 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

We have been renting them out for $8/mo
Nice thing is we can totally get in and troubleshoot anything.
And the parents can control which devices and which services they allow their 
kids to use.

From: Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 10:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix or others 802.11ac Home Gateways

Best router ever!  Highly recommend them.

We sell it as a managed wifi service instead of selling just the router.  
Customer pays $99 "setup fee" and $12/mo.  Clients love them and so do our 
support staff.

-Sean

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016, Gino Villarini 
mailto:ginovi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
We are looking for a Home Gateway / Router that supports 802.11AC wifi and 
gigabit speeds on the LAN.
I have read that Calix is a good option, what is the cost? Experience with them 
or others?