Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Chuck McCown via Af]

We do have one that works for the 320.

From: That One Guy via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 1:15 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

I love the WB surge protectors, it sucks they dont work for 320. That exterior 
data only jack is freaking awesome. The only thing I hate about them is that 
sunce theyre not like the 600SS which you have to screw the cover on for it to 
stay they have the latch and the screw and the lazy installers never tighten 
the screw, so we are always replacing them when the wind blows them open and 
they fill with water. Thats not a design issue its a moron issue, you cant 
design around that.

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Adam Moffett via Af  wrote:

  The code part is debatable.  An antenna cable would definitely need to be 
grounded somehow, but we're bringing the low voltage data cable into the house, 
not an antenna cable.  If that needs a surge protector, then so does every 
doorbell, camera, sensor, landscaping light, and so on.

  Whether it's a good idea and whether it's required by code are two separate 
points though.  It's definitely a good idea. 


And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can do it 
without requiring the customer to be home.

If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you 
should be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements (grounding 
before entry into the home).


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

  Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle that 
may be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a point to test 
from that's outside if necessary.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "Josh Reynolds via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity


  If you use the new UBNT surge protectors* (or something like them), then 
your outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and then you'd have a 
second (probably much shorter) run from that box into the home. It would be 
much more likely for the primarily 'outdoor' cable to have water in it than the 
much shorter run inside the home.

  Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.

  [* - I have no idea if these are shipping]


  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
  SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

  On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I realized 
that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to 
water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to change out the entire unit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





From: "Darin Steffl via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity


Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in 
but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything like 
that. He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I think and 
then the Customer AP.

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html


On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af  wrote:

  I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the 
diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just 
look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 

  On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but 
even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" 
 wrote:

  Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an 
idea for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also 
think would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity 
of installs. 

  It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power 
injector at customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that 
provides functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, 
customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the 
radio, the customer equipment, and power.   It would also have 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Ken Hohhof via Af]

And if you don’t use coax or shielded cable, there is actually nothing to 
“ground”.  A surge protector is not the same as a ground block.  If you look at 
the ground block for satellite TV, it has no surge protector, it is just 
grounding the shield of the coax.  And if anyone was still using 300 ohm 
twinlead, you would be hard pressed to ground that at the building entrance, 
you would have to use a balun and convert it to 75 ohm coax.

Part of the logic behind grounding the coax, I think, is first the shield may 
be electrically connected to the mast at the antenna, and second you have a 
much heavier conductor for surges than just a 24 AWG cable.

And if you compare to telephone wiring, there are gas tubes in the NID, but I 
don’t think they ground the conductors.  And they used to put the lightning 
protectors inside the house, the main reason the NID moved outside the house 
was the court decision that customers could own their own phones, so the telcos 
created a demarc outside the house and anything beyond that demarc was customer 
owned and maintained.  In commercial and multitenant buildings, you still often 
see the 50 pair or whatever drop cable come directly into the building where 
the lightning protectors are in an indoor demarc cabinet.


From: Adam Moffett via Af 
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 2:12 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

The code part is debatable.  An antenna cable would definitely need to be 
grounded somehow, but we're bringing the low voltage data cable into the house, 
not an antenna cable.  If that needs a surge protector, then so does every 
doorbell, camera, sensor, landscaping light, and so on.

Whether it's a good idea and whether it's required by code are two separate 
points though.  It's definitely a good idea.


  And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can do it 
without requiring the customer to be home.

  If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you should 
be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements (grounding before 
entry into the home).


  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
  SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

  On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle that 
may be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a point to test 
from that's outside if necessary.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com





From: "Josh Reynolds via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity


If you use the new UBNT surge protectors* (or something like them), then 
your outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and then you'd have a 
second (probably much shorter) run from that box into the home. It would be 
much more likely for the primarily 'outdoor' cable to have water in it than the 
much shorter run inside the home.

Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping]


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com

On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

  I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I realized 
that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to 
water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to change out the entire unit.




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
  http://www.ics-il.com



--

  From: "Darin Steffl via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com
  To: af@afmug.com
      Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity


  Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in 
but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything like 
that. He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I think and 
then the Customer AP.

  http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html


  On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af  wrote:

I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the 
diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just 
look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:

  I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but 
even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

  On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" 
 wrote:

 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Mike Hammett via Af]

Yeah, but few do. If you do, you're supposed to bond it with the main facility 
ground... which I know the cableco, telco and satelliteco don't do. 

Heck, even the "experts" that come around putting lightning rods on 
everything... don't bond it to the main ground. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 2:06:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 


And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can do it 
without requiring the customer to be home. 

If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you should 
be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements (grounding before 
entry into the home). 



Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer 
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af 
wrote: 



Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle that may 
be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a point to test from 
that's outside if necessary. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 


If you use the new UBNT surge protectors* (or something like them), then your 
out door run would technically terminate at that box, and then you'd have a 
second (probably much shorter) run from that box into the home. It would be 
much more likely for the primar ily 'outdoor' cable to have water in it than 
the much shorter run inside the home. 

Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to le t water weep out. 

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping ] 



Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer 
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af 
wrote: 



I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I realized that 
where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to 
water\lightning\whatever damage... then I'd have to change out the entire unit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 



Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in but it 
doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything like that. 
He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I think and then the 
Customer AP. 

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html 



On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 


On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost. 
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" < 
af@afmug.com > wrote: 



Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of 
installs. 


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device. One that provides functionality like 
traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on. 
The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and power. It 
would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to 
be able to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption is. 
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the 
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc. My goal would be 
to instrument this as much as possible. 


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace 
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as 
traffic goes. There will likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based 
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset. 


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device. $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
Of course, this is a 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[That One Guy via Af]

I love the WB surge protectors, it sucks they dont work for 320. That
exterior data only jack is freaking awesome. The only thing I hate about
them is that sunce theyre not like the 600SS which you have to screw the
cover on for it to stay they have the latch and the screw and the lazy
installers never tighten the screw, so we are always replacing them when
the wind blows them open and they fill with water. Thats not a design issue
its a moron issue, you cant design around that.

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Adam Moffett via Af  wrote:

>  The code part is debatable.  An antenna cable would definitely need to be
> grounded somehow, but we're bringing the low voltage data cable into the
> house, not an antenna cable.  If that needs a surge protector, then so does
> every doorbell, camera, sensor, landscaping light, and so on.
>
> Whether it's a good idea and whether it's required by code are two
> separate points though.  It's definitely a good idea.
>
>
>  And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can do
> it without requiring the customer to be home.
>
> If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you
> should be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements (grounding
> before entry into the home).
>
>  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>  On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
>
> Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle that
> may be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a point to
> test from that's outside if necessary.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> ------
> *From: *"Josh Reynolds via Af"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity
>
> If you use the new UBNT surge protectors* (or something like them), then your
> outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and then you'd have
> a second (probably much shorter) run from that box into the home. It
> would be much more likely for the primarily 'outdoor' cable to have water
> in it than the much shorter run inside the home.
>
> Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.
>
> [* - I have no idea if these are shipping]
>
>  Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>  On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
>
> I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I realized
> that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to
> water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to change out the entire
> unit.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> --
> *From: *"Darin Steffl via Af"  
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity
>
>  Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in
> but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything
> like that. He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I
> think and then the Customer AP.
>
>  http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af  wrote:
>
>> I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
>> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
>> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
>> otherwise.
>>  On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even
>>> at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
>>> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
>>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>>>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>>>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>>>> of installs.
>>>>
>>>>  It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>>>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>>>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>>>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Adam Moffett via Af]

The code part is debatable.  An antenna cable would definitely need to 
be grounded somehow, but we're bringing the low voltage data cable into 
the house, not an antenna cable.  If that needs a surge protector, then 
so does every doorbell, camera, sensor, landscaping light, and so on.


Whether it's a good idea and whether it's required by code are two 
separate points though.  It's definitely a good idea.


And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can 
do it without requiring the customer to be home.


If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you 
should be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements 
(grounding before entry into the home).


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle 
that may be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a 
point to test from that's outside if necessary.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Josh Reynolds via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

If you use the new UBNT surgeprotectors* (or something like them), 
then your outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and 
then you'd have a second (probably much shorter) run from that box 
into the home. It would be much more likely for the primarily 
'outdoor' cable to have water in it than the much shorter run inside 
the home.


Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping]

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I
realized that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE
due to water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to
change out the entire unit.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Darin Steffl via Af" 
    *To: *af@afmug.com
    *Sent: *Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE
built-in but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show
status or anything like that. He is working on getting out the
Tower/WISP switches first I think and then the Customer AP.

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of
the diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if
the customer could just look at the router to see the status
of the connection up down or otherwise.

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the
functionality but even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)
via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Following up on the previous email about product
ideas, I have an idea for a product which at least I
think would be really cool, but I also think would
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent
cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the
power injector at customer sites with more of an
intelligent device. One that provides functionality
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics,
customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The unit
would have jacks for the radio, the customer
equipment, and power.   It would also have a display
which shows real-time usage data for the customer to
be able to determine for themselves what their
current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset
of the radio itself, automatic problem notification
to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to instrument
this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for
internet, with di

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Josh Reynolds via Af]

And also if you have to do a cable rerun or move the antenna, you can do 
it without requiring the customer to be home.


If I remember right (Chuck or somebody can probably confirm this), you 
should be doing this anyway due to electrical code requirements 
(grounding before entry into the home).


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/07/2014 10:59 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle 
that may be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a 
point to test from that's outside if necessary.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Josh Reynolds via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

If you use the new UBNT surgeprotectors* (or something like them), 
then your outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and 
then you'd have a second (probably much shorter) run from that box 
into the home. It would be much more likely for the primarily 
'outdoor' cable to have water in it than the much shorter run inside 
the home.


Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping]

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:

I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I
realized that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE
due to water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to change
out the entire unit.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Darin Steffl via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
    *Sent: *Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE
built-in but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show
status or anything like that. He is working on getting out the
Tower/WISP switches first I think and then the Customer AP.

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of
the diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the
customer could just look at the router to see the status of
the connection up down or otherwise.

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the
functionality but even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)
via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Following up on the previous email about product
ideas, I have an idea for a product which at least I
think would be really cool, but I also think would
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent
cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the
power injector at customer sites with more of an
intelligent device.   One that provides functionality
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics,
customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The unit
would have jacks for the radio, the customer
equipment, and power.   It would also have a display
which shows real-time usage data for the customer to
be able to determine for themselves what their current
internet consumption is.   There are a lot of natural
outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the
WISP, etc. My goal would be to instrument this as much
as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for
internet, with diagnostic tools built in, then you've
got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will
likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 d

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Mike Hammett via Af]

Yeah, I had thought about those (and the WB versions). It's a hassle that may 
be worth doing to avoid other hassles. Would also provide a point to test from 
that's outside if necessary. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:55:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 


If you use the new UBNT surge protectors* (or something like them), then your 
out door run would technically terminate at that box, and then you'd have a 
second (probably much shorter) run from that box into the home. It would be 
much more likely for the primar ily 'outdoor' cable to have water in it than 
the much shorter run inside the home. 

Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to le t water weep out. 

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping ] 



Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer 
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af 
wrote: 



I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I realized that 
where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to 
water\lightning\whatever damage... then I'd have to change out the entire unit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 



Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in but it 
doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything like that. 
He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I think and then the 
Customer AP. 

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html 



On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 


On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost. 
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" < 
af@afmug.com > wrote: 



Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of 
installs. 


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device. One that provides functionality like 
traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on. 
The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and power. It 
would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to 
be able to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption is. 
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the 
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc. My goal would be 
to instrument this as much as possible. 


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace 
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as 
traffic goes. There will likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based 
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset. 


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device. $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up. 


Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each install, 
I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding even $75 to 
the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have 
to hit for lower volume. Is this a fair assumption? Would you add such a device 
to each install? 

















-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Josh Reynolds via Af]

If you use the new UBNT surgeprotectors* (or something like them), then 
your outdoor run would technically terminate at that box, and then you'd 
have a second (probably much shorter) run from that box into the home. 
It would be much more likely for the primarily 'outdoor' cable to have 
water in it than the much shorter run inside the home.


Also, we always slice the bottom of our drip loops to let water weep out.

[* - I have no idea if these are shipping]

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com <http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/07/2014 04:20 AM, Mike Hammett via Af wrote:
I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I 
realized that where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to 
water\lightning\whatever damage...  then I'd have to change out the 
entire unit.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


*From: *"Darin Steffl via Af" 
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE 
built-in but it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status 
or anything like that. He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP 
switches first I think and then the Customer AP.


http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af <mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the
customer could just look at the router to see the status of the
connection up down or otherwise.

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality
but even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via
Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I
have an idea for a product which at least I think would be
really cool, but I also think would likely be a big flop,
just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power
injector at customer sites with more of an intelligent
device.   One that provides functionality like traffic
metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed
tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the
radio, the customer equipment, and power.   It would also
have a display which shows real-time usage data for the
customer to be able to determine for themselves what their
current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP,
etc.   My goal would be to instrument this as much as
possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for
internet, with diagnostic tools built in, then you've got
the basic idea.  This is not intended to replace the
customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2
device as far as traffic goes. There will likely be some
limited traffic shaping possible based on the underlying
ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be
doable for higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort
zone for the volumes I typically move. Of course, this is
a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
down instead of up.

Although I suspect most people would love to have one of
these at each install, I have a hard time believing that
most people would swallow adding even $75 to the cost of
each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price
I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair
assumption?  Would you add such a device to each install?







--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com <http://www.mnwifi.com/>
507-634-WiFi
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi> Like us on Facebook 
<http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[David via Af]

OMG..
Stop that :)
Tree == BAD for anything electronic.
The tree rats take of any foreign object on its territory and for get it 
if you place it on a Pecan tree LOL


On 10/05/2014 06:47 PM, timothy steele via Af wrote:

A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice

—
Sent from Mailbox 


On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af > wrote:


then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35
dollars in surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in
incidental costs aside from the CPE there isnt really much
breathing room for residential 29-39 dollar connections.
Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for
customers to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC
address of the attached device so that when a customer gets a new
router to self provision they can look on the display and know
what it is, we still have CS staff telling them to look on the
sticker on the router.. fucking dipshits.


E

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD
to display only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen.
Techs can log into the RB2011 with the admin credentials and
check on the wireless clients, interface errors, run speed
tests (tcp) to the headend of your network, etc.

$5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the
people that have the service love it.

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:


I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of
the diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if
the customer could just look at the router to see the status
of the connection up down or otherwise.

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the
functionality but even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)
via Af" mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Following up on the previous email about product
ideas, I have an idea for a product which at least I
think would be really cool, but I also think would
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent
cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the
power injector at customer sites with more of an
intelligent device.   One that provides functionality
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics,
customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The unit
would have jacks for the radio, the customer
equipment, and power.   It would also have a display
which shows real-time usage data for the customer to
be able to determine for themselves what their
current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset
of the radio itself, automatic problem notification
to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to instrument
this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for
internet, with diagnostic tools built in, then you've
got the basic idea.  This is not intended to replace
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will
likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75
might be doable for higher volumes, but $100 is more
in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically
move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not
even sure how many I'd sell so these prices are
guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead
of up.

Although I suspect most people would love to have one
of these at each install, I have a hard time
believing that most people would swallow adding even
$75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100
which might be the price I'd have to hit for lower
volume.   Is this

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Mike Hammett via Af]

Must be a GMail user. ;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 11:44:03 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 


I'm assuming you mean the original idea, not the idea presented in the message 
you replied to ;) 


Yes, it occured to me that this might be a business-install type of product 
where you're more worried about uptime and availability instead of every penny 
of cost. 


Do you have any idea how many business installs you do on average? 


-forrest 


On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Jeremy via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



This is the best idea I've ever heard for a WISP business invention. I LOVE the 
idea. It would be really hard to justify the cost on customer installs. I could 
see maybe bundling it into every business install. It also becomes one more 
reason why our business installs are better. We could power cycle it remotely, 
view statistics, etc. I think I could justify it on every business account. 




On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:47 PM, timothy steele via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 


A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice 

— 
Sent from Mailbox 





On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars in 
surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs aside 
from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential 29-39 dollar 
connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost. 
The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for customers to 
plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass. 
That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of the 
attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self provision 
they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have CS staff 
telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking dipshits. 





E 


On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 




Honestly, a RB2 011 fills that ni che pretty well. Lock the LCD to display only 
WAN bandwidth , and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the RB2011 with 
the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients, interface errors, run 
speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network, etc. 

$5/mo for router management a month is what we char ge, and the people that 
have the service love it. 


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer 
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote: 



I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 
On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost. 
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" < 
af@afmug.com > wrote: 



Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of 
installs. 


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device. One that provides functionality like 
traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on. 
The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and power. It 
would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to 
be able to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption is. 
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the 
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc. My goal would be 
to instrument this as much as possible. 


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace 
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as 
traffic goes. There will likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based 
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset. 


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device. $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up. 


Although I suspect most p

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Mike Hammett via Af]

So then stop selling $29 - $39 plans. ;-) 

I guess my lowest is $31 with annual pre-pay, but most of mine are at $60. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "That One Guy via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 6:44:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 


then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars in 
surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs aside 
from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential 29-39 dollar 
connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost. 
The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for customers to 
plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass. 
That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of the 
attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self provision 
they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have CS staff 
telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking dipshits. 





E 


On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 




Honestly, a RB2 011 fills that ni che pretty well. Lock the LCD to display only 
WAN bandwidth , and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the RB2011 with 
the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients, interface errors, run 
speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network, etc. 

$5/mo for router management a month is what we char ge, and the people that 
have the service love it. 


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer 
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote: 



I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 
On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost. 
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" < 
af@afmug.com > wrote: 



Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of 
installs. 


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device. One that provides functionality like 
traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on. 
The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and power. It 
would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to 
be able to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption is. 
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the 
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc. My goal would be 
to instrument this as much as possible. 


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace 
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as 
traffic goes. There will likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based 
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset. 


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device. $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up. 


Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each install, 
I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding even $75 to 
the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have 
to hit for lower volume. Is this a fair assumption? Would you add such a device 
to each install? 




















-- 

All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the parts 
you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you can't get them 
together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not use a hammer. -- 
IBM maintenance manual, 1925 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Mike Hammett via Af]

First practical use of the LCD screen I've heard yet. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 6:13:35 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 


Honestly, a RB2 011 fills that ni che pretty well. Lock the LCD to display only 
WAN bandwidth , and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the RB2011 with 
the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients, interface errors, run 
speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network, etc. 

$5/mo for router management a month is what we char ge, and the people that 
have the service love it. 


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer 
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote: 



I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 
On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost. 
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" < 
af@afmug.com > wrote: 



Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of 
installs. 


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device. One that provides functionality like 
traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on. 
The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and power. It 
would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to 
be able to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption is. 
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the 
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc. My goal would be 
to instrument this as much as possible. 


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace 
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as 
traffic goes. There will likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based 
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset. 


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device. $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up. 


Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each install, 
I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding even $75 to 
the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have 
to hit for lower volume. Is this a fair assumption? Would you add such a device 
to each install? 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Mike Hammett via Af]

I used to be really excited about all-in-one CPE units until I realized that 
where now I have to change out the occasional PoE due to 
water\lightning\whatever damage... then I'd have to change out the entire unit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

- Original Message -

From: "Darin Steffl via Af"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2014 4:25:38 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity 



Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in but it 
doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything like that. 
He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I think and then the 
Customer AP. 

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html 



On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise. 


On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" < af@afmug.com > wrote: 



I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost. 
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" < 
af@afmug.com > wrote: 



Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of 
installs. 


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device. One that provides functionality like 
traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on. 
The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and power. It 
would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to 
be able to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption is. 
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the 
radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc. My goal would be 
to instrument this as much as possible. 


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea. This is not intended to replace 
the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as 
traffic goes. There will likely be some limited traffic shaping possible based 
on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset. 


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device. $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up. 


Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each install, 
I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding even $75 to 
the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have 
to hit for lower volume. Is this a fair assumption? Would you add such a device 
to each install? 

















-- 

Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
Like us on Facebook 

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Jeremy via Af]

I meant your original idea Forrest.  I'm not sure that I'll ever master
this whole email group thing.  As far as an average for business
installsright now we would be better talking about the number of
business installs that we intend to do rather than the amount that we are
actually doing.  If you are basing the decision on our volume then it
probably isn't worth the cost of development unfortunately.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 10:44 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

> I'm assuming you mean the original idea, not the idea presented in the
> message you replied to ;)
>
> Yes, it occured to me that this might be a business-install type of
> product where you're more worried about uptime and availability instead of
> every penny of cost.
>
> Do you have any idea how many business installs you do on average?
>
> -forrest
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:
>
>> This is the best idea I've ever heard for a WISP business invention.  I
>> LOVE the idea.  It would be really hard to justify the cost on customer
>> installs.  I could see maybe bundling it into every business install.  It
>> also becomes one more reason why our business installs are better.  We
>> could power cycle it remotely, view statistics, etc.  I think I could
>> justify it on every business account.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:47 PM, timothy steele via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice
>>>
>>> —
>>> Sent from Mailbox 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35
 dollars in surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in
 incidental costs aside from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room
 for residential 29-39 dollar connections. Especially in cases like us who
 eat the CPE cost.
 The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for
 customers to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
 That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of
 the attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self
 provision they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have
 CS staff telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking
 dipshits.


 E

 On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
 wrote:

>  Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to
> display only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can
> log into the RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless
> clients, interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your
> network, etc.
>
> $5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people
> that have the service love it.
>
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>  On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:
>
>  I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
> otherwise.
>  On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>
>>  I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but
>> even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
>> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an
>>> idea for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I 
>>> also
>>> think would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost
>>> sensitivity of installs.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector
>>> at customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that 
>>> provides
>>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, 
>>> customer-location
>>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which 
>>> shows
>>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a 
>>> lot of
>>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>>
>>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>>> Layer 2 device as

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I'm assuming you mean the original idea, not the idea presented in the
message you replied to ;)

Yes, it occured to me that this might be a business-install type of product
where you're more worried about uptime and availability instead of every
penny of cost.

Do you have any idea how many business installs you do on average?

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Jeremy via Af  wrote:

> This is the best idea I've ever heard for a WISP business invention.  I
> LOVE the idea.  It would be really hard to justify the cost on customer
> installs.  I could see maybe bundling it into every business install.  It
> also becomes one more reason why our business installs are better.  We
> could power cycle it remotely, view statistics, etc.  I think I could
> justify it on every business account.
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:47 PM, timothy steele via Af 
> wrote:
>
>> A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice
>>
>> —
>> Sent from Mailbox 
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:
>>
>>> then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars
>>> in surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs
>>> aside from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential
>>> 29-39 dollar connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
>>> The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for
>>> customers to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
>>> That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of
>>> the attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self
>>> provision they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have
>>> CS staff telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking
>>> dipshits.
>>>
>>>
>>> E
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
>>> wrote:
>>>
  Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to
 display only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log
 into the RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless
 clients, interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your
 network, etc.

 $5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people
 that have the service love it.

 Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
 SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
  On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:

  I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
 diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
 just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
 otherwise.
  On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:

>  I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but
> even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an
>> idea for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I 
>> also
>> think would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost
>> sensitivity of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot 
>> of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure 
>> how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at
>> each install, I have a hard time believing that most people wo

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Carlos Alcantar via Af]

I’ve always had a grip about a device of this type.  We run a wireless company 
as well as a fttx company and the one thing I can say about the fttx (goon) 
vendors is they gave done a really good job about giving the ONT’s really great 
intelligence , I wish the wireless vendors would take a page from there book.  
Regardless if it’s fiber in the middle or wireless those end point devices 
should have the intelligence as they do in the gpon world.  mff / dhcp snoop / 
mac base limiting / ip based limiting ect / bw profiles / cos management.  Just 
my 2 cents


Carlos Alcantar
Race Communications / Race Team Member
1325 Howard Ave. #604, Burlingame, CA. 94010
Phone: +1 415 376 3314 / car...@race.com<mailto:car...@race.com> / 
http://www.race.com<http://www.race.com/>


From: Jeremy via Af mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Reply-To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Date: Sunday, October 5, 2014 at 7:58 PM
To: "af@afmug.com<mailto:af@afmug.com>" mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

This is the best idea I've ever heard for a WISP business invention.  I LOVE 
the idea.  It would be really hard to justify the cost on customer installs.  I 
could see maybe bundling it into every business install.  It also becomes one 
more reason why our business installs are better.  We could power cycle it 
remotely, view statistics, etc.  I think I could justify it on every business 
account.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:47 PM, timothy steele via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice

—
Sent from Mailbox<https://www.dropbox.com/mailbox>



On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars in 
surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs aside 
from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential 29-39 dollar 
connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for customers to 
plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of the 
attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self provision 
they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have CS staff 
telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking dipshits.


E

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to display only 
WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the RB2011 with 
the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients, interface errors, run 
speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network, etc.

$5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people that have 
the service love it.

Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com<http://www.spitwspots.com>

On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:

I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic 
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at the 
router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise.

On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides functionality 
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so 
on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and 
power.   It would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the 
customer to be able to determine for themselves what their current internet 
consumption is.   There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as 
watchdog reset of the radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, 
etc.   My goal would be to instrument this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not intended to 
replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as 
far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited traffic shap

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Jeremy via Af]

This is the best idea I've ever heard for a WISP business invention.  I
LOVE the idea.  It would be really hard to justify the cost on customer
installs.  I could see maybe bundling it into every business install.  It
also becomes one more reason why our business installs are better.  We
could power cycle it remotely, view statistics, etc.  I think I could
justify it on every business account.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 5:47 PM, timothy steele via Af  wrote:

> A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice
>
> —
> Sent from Mailbox 
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:
>
>> then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars
>> in surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs
>> aside from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential
>> 29-39 dollar connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
>> The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for customers
>> to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
>> That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of
>> the attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self
>> provision they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have
>> CS staff telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking
>> dipshits.
>>
>>
>> E
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to
>>> display only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log
>>> into the RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless
>>> clients, interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your
>>> network, etc.
>>>
>>> $5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people
>>> that have the service love it.
>>>
>>> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
>>> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>>>  On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:
>>>
>>>  I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
>>> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
>>> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
>>> otherwise.
>>>  On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>>>
  I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but
 even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
 On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
 af@afmug.com> wrote:

> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also 
> think
> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
> of installs.
>
> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot 
> of
> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
> instrument this as much as possible.
>
> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>
> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
> down instead of up.
>
> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow 
> adding
> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be 
> the
> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  
> Would
> you add such a device to each install?
>
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
>> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
>> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. B

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[timothy steele via Af]

A cap that keeps ants/worms on of SM for tree installs would be nice

—
Sent from Mailbox

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 7:45 PM, That One Guy via Af  wrote:

> then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars in
> surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs
> aside from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential
> 29-39 dollar connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
> The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for customers
> to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
> That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of the
> attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self provision
> they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have CS staff
> telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking dipshits.
> E
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:
>>  Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to display
>> only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the
>> RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients,
>> interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network,
>> etc.
>>
>> $5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people
>> that have the service love it.
>>
>> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
>> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>>  On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:
>>
>> I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
>> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
>> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
>> otherwise.
>> On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>>
>>> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
>>> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
>>> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
>>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>>
 Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
 for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
 would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
 of installs.

  It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
 customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
 functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
 speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
 customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
 real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
 themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
 natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
 automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
 instrument this as much as possible.

  If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
 diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
 intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
 Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
 traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

  Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
 higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
 typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
 many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
 down instead of up.

  Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
 install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
 even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
 price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
 you add such a device to each install?





>>
> -- 
> All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
> parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
> can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
> use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[That One Guy via Af]

then youre already putting in 5-20 dollars worth of cable, 20-35 dollars in
surge protection. 5-15 dollars in mounting hardware in incidental costs
aside from the CPE there isnt really much breathing room for residential
29-39 dollar connections. Especially in cases like us who eat the CPE cost.
The reality is it would be just one more piece of equipment for customers
to plug in incorrectly, or even better, completely bypass.
That being said, I want it, and I want it to display the MAC address of the
attached device so that when a customer gets a new router to self provision
they can look on the display and know what it is, we still have CS staff
telling them to look on the sticker on the router.. fucking dipshits.


E

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Josh Reynolds via Af  wrote:

>  Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to display
> only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the
> RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients,
> interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network,
> etc.
>
> $5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people
> that have the service love it.
>
> Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
> SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com
>  On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:
>
> I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
> otherwise.
> On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>
>> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
>> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
>> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>>> of installs.
>>>
>>>  It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
>>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>>
>>>  If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>>
>>>  Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>>> down instead of up.
>>>
>>>  Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>>> you add such a device to each install?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>


-- 
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Josh Reynolds via Af]

Honestly, a RB2011 fills that niche pretty well. Lock the LCD to display 
only WAN bandwidth, and disable the touchscreen. Techs can log into the 
RB2011 with the admin credentials and check on the wireless clients, 
interface errors, run speed tests (tcp) to the headend of your network, etc.


$5/mo for router management a month is what we charge, and the people 
that have the service love it.


Josh Reynolds, Chief Information Officer
SPITwSPOTS, www.spitwspots.com 

On 10/05/2014 01:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af wrote:


I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the 
diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer 
could just look at the router to see the status of the connection up 
down or otherwise.


On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af" > wrote:


I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but
even at $75 I couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af"
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:

Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have
an idea for a product which at least I think would be really
cool, but I also think would likely be a big flop, just
because of the apparent cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power
injector at customer sites with more of an intelligent device.
  One that provides functionality like traffic metering, cable
diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The
unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment,
and power.   It would also have a display which shows
real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine
for themselves what their current internet consumption is.  
There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as

watchdog reset of the radio itself, automatic problem
notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
instrument this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet,
with diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic
idea.  This is not intended to replace the customer router/nat
device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as far as traffic
goes.  There will likely be some limited traffic shaping
possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be
doable for higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort
zone for the volumes I typically move. Of course, this is a
CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so these
prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down
instead of up.

Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these
at each install, I have a hard time believing that most people
would swallow adding even $75 to the cost of each install, let
alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have to hit for
lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would you add such
a device to each install?

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That was one of the three vendors that I was counting when I said there
were already three vendors I know of in that space.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Paul McCall via Af  wrote:

>  Why not use a Mikrotik router with the POE out option ?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Forrest Christian
> (List Account) via Af
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 05, 2014 5:44 PM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity
>
>
>
> That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my
> preference to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are
> already three vendors that I know of in that space, and I don't feel like
> trying to compete with the vendors that have way more volume than I could
> attain.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af  wrote:
>
> The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like
> Netonix's new device.
>
> Keefe
>
>
>
> On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for
> a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
> of installs.
>
> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
> themselves what their current internet consumption is. There are a lot of
> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
> instrument this as much as possible.
>
> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>
> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
> down instead of up.
>
> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
> you add such a device to each install?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Paul McCall via Af]

Why not use a Mikrotik router with the POE out option ?

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Christian (List 
Account) via Af
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2014 5:44 PM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my preference 
to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are already three 
vendors that I know of in that space, and I don't feel like trying to compete 
with the vendors that have way more volume than I could attain.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like Netonix's 
new device.

Keefe


On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides functionality 
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so 
on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and 
power.   It would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the 
customer to be able to determine for themselves what their current internet 
consumption is. There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as 
watchdog reset of the radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, 
etc.   My goal would be to instrument this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not intended to 
replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as 
far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited traffic shaping 
possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
 Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up.

Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each install, 
I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding even $75 to 
the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have 
to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would you add such a 
device to each install?

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my
preference to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are
already three vendors in that space, and I don't feel like trying to
compete with the vendors that have way more volume than I could attain.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af  wrote:

> The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like
> Netonix's new device.
>
> Keefe
>
>
> On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is. There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

That's sort of the thought process I was headed towards.   With my
preference to not entering that already way too crowded market.   There are
already three vendors that I know of in that space, and I don't feel like
trying to compete with the vendors that have way more volume than I could
attain.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Keefe John via Af  wrote:

> The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like
> Netonix's new device.
>
> Keefe
>
>
> On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is. There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Keefe John via Af]

The only way to make this price doable is if it is a router too like 
Netonix's new device.


Keefe

On 10/5/2014 4:08 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af wrote:
Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea 
for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also 
think would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost 
sensitivity of installs.


It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at 
customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides 
functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, 
customer-location speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks 
for the radio, the customer equipment, and power.   It would also have 
a display which shows real-time usage data for the customer to be able 
to determine for themselves what their current internet consumption 
is. There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog 
reset of the radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, 
etc.   My goal would be to instrument this as much as possible.


If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with 
diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is 
not intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only 
be a Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some 
limited traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet 
swtich chipset.


Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for 
higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I 
typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure 
how many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more 
likely to go down instead of up.


Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each 
install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow 
adding even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which 
might be the price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair 
assumption?  Would you add such a device to each install?

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af]

I guess the other question I should have asked is "If $75 isn't doable,
what price target do I have to meet to make it doable?".

I don't have a straightforward way to get below the $75 price today, but I
don't really even have a idea what the ideal target price would be.

I've also considered adding surge supression to this to help soften the
blow, but then you have the challenge that surge supression should be
outside the home, and power injection should be inside.

-forrest

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Chris Fabien via Af  wrote:

> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Tyler Treat via Af]

You also have to contend with the fact that a good portion of these features as 
well as many others can be had with a Tik.

___
Mangled by my iPhone.
___

Tyler Treat
Corn Belt Technologies, Inc.

tyler.tr...@cornbelttech.com
___


On Oct 5, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Chris Fabien via Af 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:


I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at $75 I 
couldn't justify the cost.

On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" 
mailto:af@afmug.com>> wrote:
Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for a 
product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think would 
likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity of installs.

It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at customer 
sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides functionality 
like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location speed tests, and so 
on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the customer equipment, and 
power.   It would also have a display which shows real-time usage data for the 
customer to be able to determine for themselves what their current internet 
consumption is.   There are a lot of natural outgrowths from this such as 
watchdog reset of the radio itself, automatic problem notification to the WISP, 
etc.   My goal would be to instrument this as much as possible.

If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with diagnostic 
tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not intended to 
replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a Layer 2 device as 
far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited traffic shaping 
possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.

Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for higher 
volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I typically move. 
 Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how many I'd sell so 
these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go down instead of up.

Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each install, 
I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding even $75 to 
the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the price I'd have 
to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would you add such a 
device to each install?

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Darin Steffl via Af]

Chris Sisler - RF Armor has/is creating a Customer AP with POE built-in but
it doesn't have a display as far as I know to show status or anything like
that. He is working on getting out the Tower/WISP switches first I think
and then the Customer AP.

http://www.netonix.com/cap-fxs-1.html

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, TJ Trout via Af  wrote:

> I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the
> diagnostic features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could
> just look at the router to see the status of the connection up down or
> otherwise.
> On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:
>
>> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
>> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
>> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
>> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>>> of installs.
>>>
>>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
>>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>>
>>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>>> down instead of up.
>>>
>>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>>> you add such a device to each install?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[TJ Trout via Af]

I would love to find a router that has poe output and all of the diagnostic
features you mentioned. It would be nice if the customer could just look at
the router to see the status of the connection up down or otherwise.
On Oct 5, 2014 2:13 PM, "Chris Fabien via Af"  wrote:

> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Darin Steffl via Af]

Love the sounds of it but we wouldn't be able to eat the cost for every new
customers because right now, it is easy enough for us to run speedtests
through our CPE antenna on the roof. After that, we can at least see if the
router is negotiating at 100mb or 10mb which would indicate a wiring
problem.

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Chris Fabien via Af  wrote:

> I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
> $75 I couldn't justify the cost.
> On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
> af@afmug.com> wrote:
>
>> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea
>> for a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
>> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
>> of installs.
>>
>> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
>> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
>> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
>> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
>> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
>> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
>> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
>> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
>> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
>> instrument this as much as possible.
>>
>> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
>> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
>> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
>> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
>> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>>
>> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
>> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
>> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
>> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
>> down instead of up.
>>
>> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
>> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
>> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
>> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
>> you add such a device to each install?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

Re: [AFMUG] Customer install cost sensitivity

[Chris Fabien via Af]

I'd say you are correct. Would love to have the functionality but even at
$75 I couldn't justify the cost.
On Oct 5, 2014 5:08 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account) via Af" <
af@afmug.com> wrote:

> Following up on the previous email about product ideas, I have an idea for
> a product which at least I think would be really cool, but I also think
> would likely be a big flop, just because of the apparent cost sensitivity
> of installs.
>
> It seems to me that it would be nice to replace the power injector at
> customer sites with more of an intelligent device.   One that provides
> functionality like traffic metering, cable diagnostics, customer-location
> speed tests, and so on.   The unit would have jacks for the radio, the
> customer equipment, and power.   It would also have a display which shows
> real-time usage data for the customer to be able to determine for
> themselves what their current internet consumption is.   There are a lot of
> natural outgrowths from this such as watchdog reset of the radio itself,
> automatic problem notification to the WISP, etc.   My goal would be to
> instrument this as much as possible.
>
> If you think of this as a 'smart power meter' for internet, with
> diagnostic tools built in, then you've got the basic idea.  This is not
> intended to replace the customer router/nat device, and will only be a
> Layer 2 device as far as traffic goes.  There will likely be some limited
> traffic shaping possible based on the underlying ethernet swtich chipset.
>
> Unfortunately, these can't be a $20 device.   $75 might be doable for
> higher volumes, but $100 is more in the comfort zone for the volumes I
> typically move.  Of course, this is a CPE device and I'm not even sure how
> many I'd sell so these prices are guesses at best - but more likely to go
> down instead of up.
>
> Although I suspect most people would love to have one of these at each
> install, I have a hard time believing that most people would swallow adding
> even $75 to the cost of each install, let alone the $100 which might be the
> price I'd have to hit for lower volume.   Is this a fair assumption?  Would
> you add such a device to each install?
>
>
>
>
>