Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

Hi Ben!  :)


  - Original Message - 
  From: Ben Moore 
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 8:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors


  Hey Steve - 


  We are right here and will answer ;)  If you ever have issues, feel free to 
email me directly.


  Thanks,
  Ben Moore
  Ubiquiti Networks


  On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Steve Jones  
wrote:

Cambium was at least open about the fact that with EPMP they used a lower 
quality set of components to keep the costs down. Look at all the non public 
communication with them regarding running these bastards in cold weather until 
they finally came out and said "hey, we used cheap components to give you cheap 
gear, 24 volts just wont cut it" 


If they would take the same approach in dealing with consumer issues that 
the two little guys referenced do, they would stomp UBNT back into the rat pit 
they belong.


Its not that Cambium doesnt work with people, they absolutely do, but not 
until theyre called out in public (still better than UBNT who requires you to 
be insulted and abused by their garbage fanboys in the forum before they will 
consider looking at your issue).


heres how the cold weather issues of EPMP would have gone down with either 
packetflux or mctech


user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
Good vendor: thats odd, do you have some more detail
user 1 or 2: yeah, its freaking cold
good vendors: odd, that shouldnt happen, can we ship you some replacement 
gear and you send us back the problematic units
user 1 or 2: um, its rather inconvienient, but i do have down customers, so 
yes
good vendors: cool beans
a lil while later
good vendors: hey public customer base, turns out we fucked up, heres what 
happenned, heres a workaround, revision x will come out with a fix, if the 
workaround isnt sufficient, let us know, we will square up.


same issue with ubnt


user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
ubnt: ...
ubnt:...
user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
ubnt: ...
ubnt forum: jesus said to fuck off, ubnt is godly
users at forum: yeah but.. I have down customers
ubnt:
ubnt forum: if you cant make the gear work then youre a douchebag and your 
kids are goonie little tools, you suck, your family sucks, your town sucks.. 
you are a loser
users at forum: well that escalated quickly
3 months later
ubnt" new FW, relase notes... fix to cold weather issue broke 73 other 
things




same issue with cambium
user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
cambium: no its not
cambium in direct consumer communication: we see this issue, can you 
provide the serial numbers or mac addresses
cambium public: no issue
two months later
user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
cambium: no its not
cambium in direct consumer communication: we found the root cause
cambium in public: no issue
2 months later
cambium: hew we fixed the issue... but it doesnt matter, here, look at our 
new gear, its way better
cambium public release product release 2.0... better gooder greater. 
(oh yeah, product 1.0, we knew it failed in the cold, we kinda fixed it, but it 
doesnt matter, we are on 2.0 now, so.. see that chair over there? the chair 
with the issue on it? yeah, thats your chair, not my chair, not my problem)






On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:05 PM,  wrote:

  Older GigE surge suppressors would cause them to run at 100 Mbps.  Easy 
to just bypass them with a cat5 coupler to see if they are causing the problem. 
 Also, ground problems will cause this.  

  We have had more problems with epmp than any other product with issues 
like this.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

  This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors 
here, Packetflux and Mccown tech in particular. 

  We recently paid a fairly substantial amount to have a contractor build 
out a site. Tho of the EPMP fed from powerinjectors are flapping ports. Theyre 
both going through Gigeapc cards.

  there was an issue with the contractor and scheduling, got us a free day 
of labor, cant complain. then there was an issue with a northwest radio showing 
up southwest.

  the flapping on top of the scheduling and the questionable direction of 
the hang would have resulted in an end to a relationship

  but knowing I preprogrammed the uni

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Lewis Bergman]

That's seems a tad unfair.  When super cheap ePMP wad first released the
said it had consumer grade not industrial grade parts and they said they
put a heater in to deal with the issues.

After that, if you bought one thinking it would perform like the 10 times
more expensive gear it seems you are a bit complicit in your own issue. I
do agree There should have been some kind of more plane warning about how
severe the cold issue was but it isn't like they didn't walk through the
challenges.

Hard to have your cake and eat it too. Now tech support deniability.  That
is a bummer. That mind off makes you think you are I  an episode of house
of cards.

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017, 8:42 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Cambium was at least open about the fact that with EPMP they used a lower
> quality set of components to keep the costs down. Look at all the non
> public communication with them regarding running these bastards in cold
> weather until they finally came out and said "hey, we used cheap components
> to give you cheap gear, 24 volts just wont cut it"
>
> If they would take the same approach in dealing with consumer issues that
> the two little guys referenced do, they would stomp UBNT back into the rat
> pit they belong.
>
> Its not that Cambium doesnt work with people, they absolutely do, but not
> until theyre called out in public (still better than UBNT who requires you
> to be insulted and abused by their garbage fanboys in the forum before they
> will consider looking at your issue).
>
> heres how the cold weather issues of EPMP would have gone down with either
> packetflux or mctech
>
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> Good vendor: thats odd, do you have some more detail
> user 1 or 2: yeah, its freaking cold
> good vendors: odd, that shouldnt happen, can we ship you some replacement
> gear and you send us back the problematic units
> user 1 or 2: um, its rather inconvienient, but i do have down customers,
> so yes
> good vendors: cool beans
> a lil while later
> good vendors: hey public customer base, turns out we fucked up, heres what
> happenned, heres a workaround, revision x will come out with a fix, if the
> workaround isnt sufficient, let us know, we will square up.
>
> same issue with ubnt
>
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> ubnt: ...
> ubnt:...
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> ubnt: ...
> ubnt forum: jesus said to fuck off, ubnt is godly
> users at forum: yeah but.. I have down customers
> ubnt:
> ubnt forum: if you cant make the gear work then youre a douchebag and your
> kids are goonie little tools, you suck, your family sucks, your town
> sucks.. you are a loser
> users at forum: well that escalated quickly
> 3 months later
> ubnt" new FW, relase notes... fix to cold weather issue broke 73 other
> things
>
>
> same issue with cambium
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> cambium: no its not
> cambium in direct consumer communication: we see this issue, can you
> provide the serial numbers or mac addresses
> cambium public: no issue
> two months later
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> cambium: no its not
> cambium in direct consumer communication: we found the root cause
> cambium in public: no issue
> 2 months later
> cambium: hew we fixed the issue... but it doesnt matter, here, look at our
> new gear, its way better
> cambium public release product release 2.0... better gooder greater.
> (oh yeah, product 1.0, we knew it failed in the cold, we kinda fixed it,
> but it doesnt matter, we are on 2.0 now, so.. see that chair over there?
> the chair with the issue on it? yeah, thats your chair, not my chair, not
> my problem)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:05 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Older GigE surge suppressors would cause them to run at 100 Mbps.  Easy
>> to just bypass them with a cat5 coupler to see if they are causing the
>> problem.  Also, ground problems will cause this.
>>
>> We have had more problems with epmp than any other product with issues
>> like this.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors
>>
>> This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors
>> here, Packetflux a

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Mike Hammett]

I have no problem using 48v, though I don't think they always came with 48v 
PoEs. I could be mistaken. 

Your situations are pretty close. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 8:41:56 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors 


Cambium was at least open about the fact that with EPMP they used a lower 
quality set of components to keep the costs down. Look at all the non public 
communication with them regarding running these bastards in cold weather until 
they finally came out and said "hey, we used cheap components to give you cheap 
gear, 24 volts just wont cut it" 


If they would take the same approach in dealing with consumer issues that the 
two little guys referenced do, they would stomp UBNT back into the rat pit they 
belong. 


Its not that Cambium doesnt work with people, they absolutely do, but not until 
theyre called out in public (still better than UBNT who requires you to be 
insulted and abused by their garbage fanboys in the forum before they will 
consider looking at your issue). 


heres how the cold weather issues of EPMP would have gone down with either 
packetflux or mctech 


user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold 
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3) 
Good vendor: thats odd, do you have some more detail 
user 1 or 2: yeah, its freaking cold 
good vendors: odd, that shouldnt happen, can we ship you some replacement gear 
and you send us back the problematic units 
user 1 or 2: um, its rather inconvienient, but i do have down customers, so yes 
good vendors: cool beans 
a lil while later 
good vendors: hey public customer base, turns out we fucked up, heres what 
happenned, heres a workaround, revision x will come out with a fix, if the 
workaround isnt sufficient, let us know, we will square up. 


same issue with ubnt 



user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold 
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3) 
ubnt: ... 
ubnt:... 

user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold 
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3) 
ubnt: ... 
ubnt forum: jesus said to fuck off, ubnt is godly 
users at forum: yeah but.. I have down customers 
ubnt: 
ubnt forum: if you cant make the gear work then youre a douchebag and your kids 
are goonie little tools, you suck, your family sucks, your town sucks.. you are 
a loser 
users at forum: well that escalated quickly 
3 months later 
ubnt" new FW, relase notes... fix to cold weather issue broke 73 other 
things 




same issue with cambium 

user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold 
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3) 
cambium: no its not 
cambium in direct consumer communication: we see this issue, can you provide 
the serial numbers or mac addresses 
cambium public: no issue 
two months later 

user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold 
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3) 
cambium: no its not 
cambium in direct consumer communication: we found the root cause 
cambium in public: no issue 
2 months later 
cambium: hew we fixed the issue... but it doesnt matter, here, look at our new 
gear, its way better 
cambium public release product release 2.0... better gooder greater. (oh 
yeah, product 1.0, we knew it failed in the cold, we kinda fixed it, but it 
doesnt matter, we are on 2.0 now, so.. see that chair over there? the chair 
with the issue on it? yeah, thats your chair, not my chair, not my problem) 






On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:05 PM, < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






Older GigE surge suppressors would cause them to run at 100 Mbps. Easy to just 
bypass them with a cat5 coupler to see if they are causing the problem. Also, 
ground problems will cause this. 

We have had more problems with epmp than any other product with issues like 
this. 




From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors 


This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors here, 
Packetflux and Mccown tech in particular. 

We recently paid a fairly substantial amount to have a contractor build out a 
site. Tho of the EPMP fed from powerinjectors are flapping ports. Theyre both 
going through Gigeapc cards. 

there was an issue with the contractor and scheduling, got us a free day of 
labor, cant complain. then there was an issue with a northwest radio showing up 
southwest. 

the flapping on top of the scheduling and the questionable direction of the 
hang would have resulted in an end to a relationship 

but knowing I preprogrammed the units, it could be that i flipped two of the 
configs, but flapping ports and the scheduling issue alone would cost most 
contrac

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Ben Moore]

Hey Steve -

We are right here and will answer ;)  If you ever have issues, feel free to
email me directly.

Thanks,
Ben Moore
Ubiquiti Networks

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 7:41 PM, Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Cambium was at least open about the fact that with EPMP they used a lower
> quality set of components to keep the costs down. Look at all the non
> public communication with them regarding running these bastards in cold
> weather until they finally came out and said "hey, we used cheap components
> to give you cheap gear, 24 volts just wont cut it"
>
> If they would take the same approach in dealing with consumer issues that
> the two little guys referenced do, they would stomp UBNT back into the rat
> pit they belong.
>
> Its not that Cambium doesnt work with people, they absolutely do, but not
> until theyre called out in public (still better than UBNT who requires you
> to be insulted and abused by their garbage fanboys in the forum before they
> will consider looking at your issue).
>
> heres how the cold weather issues of EPMP would have gone down with either
> packetflux or mctech
>
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> Good vendor: thats odd, do you have some more detail
> user 1 or 2: yeah, its freaking cold
> good vendors: odd, that shouldnt happen, can we ship you some replacement
> gear and you send us back the problematic units
> user 1 or 2: um, its rather inconvienient, but i do have down customers,
> so yes
> good vendors: cool beans
> a lil while later
> good vendors: hey public customer base, turns out we fucked up, heres what
> happenned, heres a workaround, revision x will come out with a fix, if the
> workaround isnt sufficient, let us know, we will square up.
>
> same issue with ubnt
>
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> ubnt: ...
> ubnt:...
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> ubnt: ...
> ubnt forum: jesus said to fuck off, ubnt is godly
> users at forum: yeah but.. I have down customers
> ubnt:
> ubnt forum: if you cant make the gear work then youre a douchebag and your
> kids are goonie little tools, you suck, your family sucks, your town
> sucks.. you are a loser
> users at forum: well that escalated quickly
> 3 months later
> ubnt" new FW, relase notes... fix to cold weather issue broke 73 other
> things
>
>
> same issue with cambium
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> cambium: no its not
> cambium in direct consumer communication: we see this issue, can you
> provide the serial numbers or mac addresses
> cambium public: no issue
> two months later
> user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
> user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
> cambium: no its not
> cambium in direct consumer communication: we found the root cause
> cambium in public: no issue
> 2 months later
> cambium: hew we fixed the issue... but it doesnt matter, here, look at our
> new gear, its way better
> cambium public release product release 2.0... better gooder greater.
> (oh yeah, product 1.0, we knew it failed in the cold, we kinda fixed it,
> but it doesnt matter, we are on 2.0 now, so.. see that chair over there?
> the chair with the issue on it? yeah, thats your chair, not my chair, not
> my problem)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:05 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Older GigE surge suppressors would cause them to run at 100 Mbps.  Easy
>> to just bypass them with a cat5 coupler to see if they are causing the
>> problem.  Also, ground problems will cause this.
>>
>> We have had more problems with epmp than any other product with issues
>> like this.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors
>>
>> This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors
>> here, Packetflux and Mccown tech in particular.
>>
>> We recently paid a fairly substantial amount to have a contractor build
>> out a site. Tho of the EPMP fed from powerinjectors are flapping ports.
>> Theyre both going through Gigeapc cards.
>>
>> there was an issue with the contractor and scheduling, got us a free day
>> of labor, cant complain. then there was an issue with a northwest radio
>> showing up southwest.
>>
>> the flapping on top of the scheduling and the questio

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Steve Jones]

Cambium was at least open about the fact that with EPMP they used a lower
quality set of components to keep the costs down. Look at all the non
public communication with them regarding running these bastards in cold
weather until they finally came out and said "hey, we used cheap components
to give you cheap gear, 24 volts just wont cut it"

If they would take the same approach in dealing with consumer issues that
the two little guys referenced do, they would stomp UBNT back into the rat
pit they belong.

Its not that Cambium doesnt work with people, they absolutely do, but not
until theyre called out in public (still better than UBNT who requires you
to be insulted and abused by their garbage fanboys in the forum before they
will consider looking at your issue).

heres how the cold weather issues of EPMP would have gone down with either
packetflux or mctech

user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
Good vendor: thats odd, do you have some more detail
user 1 or 2: yeah, its freaking cold
good vendors: odd, that shouldnt happen, can we ship you some replacement
gear and you send us back the problematic units
user 1 or 2: um, its rather inconvienient, but i do have down customers, so
yes
good vendors: cool beans
a lil while later
good vendors: hey public customer base, turns out we fucked up, heres what
happenned, heres a workaround, revision x will come out with a fix, if the
workaround isnt sufficient, let us know, we will square up.

same issue with ubnt

user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
ubnt: ...
ubnt:...
user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
ubnt: ...
ubnt forum: jesus said to fuck off, ubnt is godly
users at forum: yeah but.. I have down customers
ubnt:
ubnt forum: if you cant make the gear work then youre a douchebag and your
kids are goonie little tools, you suck, your family sucks, your town
sucks.. you are a loser
users at forum: well that escalated quickly
3 months later
ubnt" new FW, relase notes... fix to cold weather issue broke 73 other
things


same issue with cambium
user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
cambium: no its not
cambium in direct consumer communication: we see this issue, can you
provide the serial numbers or mac addresses
cambium public: no issue
two months later
user1: my gear is losing gps sync when its cold
user2: i have an AP that I rebooted that wont come up (december 3)
cambium: no its not
cambium in direct consumer communication: we found the root cause
cambium in public: no issue
2 months later
cambium: hew we fixed the issue... but it doesnt matter, here, look at our
new gear, its way better
cambium public release product release 2.0... better gooder greater.
(oh yeah, product 1.0, we knew it failed in the cold, we kinda fixed it,
but it doesnt matter, we are on 2.0 now, so.. see that chair over there?
the chair with the issue on it? yeah, thats your chair, not my chair, not
my problem)



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 8:05 PM,  wrote:

> Older GigE surge suppressors would cause them to run at 100 Mbps.  Easy to
> just bypass them with a cat5 coupler to see if they are causing the
> problem.  Also, ground problems will cause this.
>
> We have had more problems with epmp than any other product with issues
> like this.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors
>
> This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors
> here, Packetflux and Mccown tech in particular.
>
> We recently paid a fairly substantial amount to have a contractor build
> out a site. Tho of the EPMP fed from powerinjectors are flapping ports.
> Theyre both going through Gigeapc cards.
>
> there was an issue with the contractor and scheduling, got us a free day
> of labor, cant complain. then there was an issue with a northwest radio
> showing up southwest.
>
> the flapping on top of the scheduling and the questionable direction of
> the hang would have resulted in an end to a relationship
>
> but knowing I preprogrammed the units, it could be that i flipped two of
> the configs, but flapping ports and the scheduling issue alone would cost
> most contractors the benefit of the doubt.
>
> but there is honesty among vendors, the two mentioned in particular. I may
> still fire the guys, but I know there is a known issue, so it buys them a
> break til I get up and verify.
>
> Neither vendor when this was brought up dismissed it like many bigger
> vendors would. Not naming names, (cambium, ubnt, last mile gear) but alot
> of vendors make you

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[chuck]

Older GigE surge suppressors would cause them to run at 100 Mbps.  Easy to just 
bypass them with a cat5 coupler to see if they are causing the problem.  Also, 
ground problems will cause this.  

We have had more problems with epmp than any other product with issues like 
this.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors here, 
Packetflux and Mccown tech in particular. 

We recently paid a fairly substantial amount to have a contractor build out a 
site. Tho of the EPMP fed from powerinjectors are flapping ports. Theyre both 
going through Gigeapc cards.

there was an issue with the contractor and scheduling, got us a free day of 
labor, cant complain. then there was an issue with a northwest radio showing up 
southwest.

the flapping on top of the scheduling and the questionable direction of the 
hang would have resulted in an end to a relationship

but knowing I preprogrammed the units, it could be that i flipped two of the 
configs, but flapping ports and the scheduling issue alone would cost most 
contractors the benefit of the doubt.

but there is honesty among vendors, the two mentioned in particular. I may 
still fire the guys, but I know there is a known issue, so it buys them a break 
til I get up and verify.

Neither vendor when this was brought up dismissed it like many bigger vendors 
would. Not naming names, (cambium, ubnt, last mile gear) but alot of vendors 
make you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your issues are their problem. 
Both packetflux and mccowntech basically say "get this equipment on our bench 
so we can see if there is a problem". thats important on a WISP budget.

A side effect of companies who under rug their problems is the loss of tertiary 
relationships that in the long term could benefit a company, like contractors 
doing site builds for a high price, that overall is less than a full time on 
staff crew.

Im might be a prick, but I do appreciate this openness from these two, and many 
of the others who lurk in this list

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

  That's part of the reason that's going to go later. 

  In my mind, there needs to be a small-form-factor version of the cambium sync 
version for 450i/450m.   I also need to consider whether or not to embed the 
web-based controller in the unit or not, or offer both versions.   After we get 
the rackmount out and the cambium sync card for the rackmount controller out, 
we will take some time to look at what needs to be in our 'small enclosure' 
product.   I'm pretty sure that a lot of the larger sites will simply move to 
the rackmount version.   With these out of the way then we can look more 
closely at how people build small sites and make sure this product fits that 
space well.



  On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:07 PM, George Skorup  
wrote:

Do you intend to support Cambium Sync on the 12-port DIN as well? That 
would be pretty cool. Looking forward to both products. For now I guess I can 
stack another 4-port PowerInjector and get what I need.


On 4/12/2017 5:50 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:

  Well, I'm off to bed, looks like I've finally got the pieces all wired to 
test signal through the ethernet magnetics...  got to write the test procedure 
tomorrow. 

  This test equipment has (and will probably continue to be for a bit more) 
been a bit of a challenge as it's sort of an erector set - I've got all of the 
pieces I need to build the automatic test equipment I need (signal generators, 
oscilloscopes with pass/fail, relay switching, etc), but both wiring and how to 
actually program it for testing is left as an exercise for the reader.   I'm 
pretty certain I'm at the stage where I can actually start to write test 
procedures, with (almost) all the wiring done - I'm just missing a few cables 
which should be here in the next couple of days.



  On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
 wrote:

We're in the process of getting the manufacturing side of things up to 
speed.  The product is for all intents and purposes done and we could make and 
ship untested products at this point, as everything is ready to go, except for 
testing and a couple of non-critical remaining software items.  The automatic 
test equipment we're putting in place to test and calibrate these is turning 
out to be a bit more complex than we had hoped, and I don't want to ship these 
without adequate testing.  I've been putting in 16 hour days trying to get this 
completed, but it seems that it's fighting me every step of the way.   I've 
told people that the expected date is the end of this month.  I'm still hopeful 
we'll make this, as things seem to be progre

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Steve Jones]

This is off topic, but semi related. I very much appreciate the vendors
here, Packetflux and Mccown tech in particular.

We recently paid a fairly substantial amount to have a contractor build out
a site. Tho of the EPMP fed from powerinjectors are flapping ports. Theyre
both going through Gigeapc cards.

there was an issue with the contractor and scheduling, got us a free day of
labor, cant complain. then there was an issue with a northwest radio
showing up southwest.

the flapping on top of the scheduling and the questionable direction of the
hang would have resulted in an end to a relationship

but knowing I preprogrammed the units, it could be that i flipped two of
the configs, but flapping ports and the scheduling issue alone would cost
most contractors the benefit of the doubt.

but there is honesty among vendors, the two mentioned in particular. I may
still fire the guys, but I know there is a known issue, so it buys them a
break til I get up and verify.

Neither vendor when this was brought up dismissed it like many bigger
vendors would. Not naming names, (cambium, ubnt, last mile gear) but alot
of vendors make you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that your issues are
their problem. Both packetflux and mccowntech basically say "get this
equipment on our bench so we can see if there is a problem". thats
important on a WISP budget.

A side effect of companies who under rug their problems is the loss of
tertiary relationships that in the long term could benefit a company, like
contractors doing site builds for a high price, that overall is less than a
full time on staff crew.

Im might be a prick, but I do appreciate this openness from these two, and
many of the others who lurk in this list

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 5:54 PM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> That's part of the reason that's going to go later.
>
> In my mind, there needs to be a small-form-factor version of the cambium
> sync version for 450i/450m.   I also need to consider whether or not to
> embed the web-based controller in the unit or not, or offer both versions.
>   After we get the rackmount out and the cambium sync card for the
> rackmount controller out, we will take some time to look at what needs to
> be in our 'small enclosure' product.   I'm pretty sure that a lot of the
> larger sites will simply move to the rackmount version.   With these out of
> the way then we can look more closely at how people build small sites and
> make sure this product fits that space well.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:07 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> Do you intend to support Cambium Sync on the 12-port DIN as well? That
>> would be pretty cool. Looking forward to both products. For now I guess I
>> can stack another 4-port PowerInjector and get what I need.
>>
>> On 4/12/2017 5:50 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>>
>> Well, I'm off to bed, looks like I've finally got the pieces all wired to
>> test signal through the ethernet magnetics...  got to write the test
>> procedure tomorrow.
>>
>> This test equipment has (and will probably continue to be for a bit more)
>> been a bit of a challenge as it's sort of an erector set - I've got all of
>> the pieces I need to build the automatic test equipment I need (signal
>> generators, oscilloscopes with pass/fail, relay switching, etc), but both
>> wiring and how to actually program it for testing is left as an exercise
>> for the reader.   I'm pretty certain I'm at the stage where I can actually
>> start to write test procedures, with (almost) all the wiring done - I'm
>> just missing a few cables which should be here in the next couple of days.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
>> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We're in the process of getting the manufacturing side of things up to
>>> speed.  The product is for all intents and purposes done and we could make
>>> and ship untested products at this point, as everything is ready to go,
>>> except for testing and a couple of non-critical remaining software items.
>>> The automatic test equipment we're putting in place to test and calibrate
>>> these is turning out to be a bit more complex than we had hoped, and I
>>> don't want to ship these without adequate testing.  I've been putting in 16
>>> hour days trying to get this completed, but it seems that it's fighting me
>>> every step of the way.   I've told people that the expected date is the end
>>> of this month.  I'm still hopeful we'll make this, as things seem to be
>>> progressing much more quickly with the test equipment than it was a week
>>> ago.   But it also wouldn't surprise me if it's a week or two late.
>>>
>>> The only thing we've really got holding things up is getting this test
>>> equipment running and doing final calibration integration in the software.
>>>   The calibration process generates a calibration file which ends up
>>> permanently in the device and the software to read this 

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

That's part of the reason that's going to go later.

In my mind, there needs to be a small-form-factor version of the cambium
sync version for 450i/450m.   I also need to consider whether or not to
embed the web-based controller in the unit or not, or offer both versions.
  After we get the rackmount out and the cambium sync card for the
rackmount controller out, we will take some time to look at what needs to
be in our 'small enclosure' product.   I'm pretty sure that a lot of the
larger sites will simply move to the rackmount version.   With these out of
the way then we can look more closely at how people build small sites and
make sure this product fits that space well.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 12:07 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> Do you intend to support Cambium Sync on the 12-port DIN as well? That
> would be pretty cool. Looking forward to both products. For now I guess I
> can stack another 4-port PowerInjector and get what I need.
>
> On 4/12/2017 5:50 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
>
> Well, I'm off to bed, looks like I've finally got the pieces all wired to
> test signal through the ethernet magnetics...  got to write the test
> procedure tomorrow.
>
> This test equipment has (and will probably continue to be for a bit more)
> been a bit of a challenge as it's sort of an erector set - I've got all of
> the pieces I need to build the automatic test equipment I need (signal
> generators, oscilloscopes with pass/fail, relay switching, etc), but both
> wiring and how to actually program it for testing is left as an exercise
> for the reader.   I'm pretty certain I'm at the stage where I can actually
> start to write test procedures, with (almost) all the wiring done - I'm
> just missing a few cables which should be here in the next couple of days.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> We're in the process of getting the manufacturing side of things up to
>> speed.  The product is for all intents and purposes done and we could make
>> and ship untested products at this point, as everything is ready to go,
>> except for testing and a couple of non-critical remaining software items.
>> The automatic test equipment we're putting in place to test and calibrate
>> these is turning out to be a bit more complex than we had hoped, and I
>> don't want to ship these without adequate testing.  I've been putting in 16
>> hour days trying to get this completed, but it seems that it's fighting me
>> every step of the way.   I've told people that the expected date is the end
>> of this month.  I'm still hopeful we'll make this, as things seem to be
>> progressing much more quickly with the test equipment than it was a week
>> ago.   But it also wouldn't surprise me if it's a week or two late.
>>
>> The only thing we've really got holding things up is getting this test
>> equipment running and doing final calibration integration in the software.
>>   The calibration process generates a calibration file which ends up
>> permanently in the device and the software to read this isn't done, mainly
>> because we don't have a sample calibration file yet.
>>
>> The 12 port DIN is likely going to be a while  maybe fall at this
>> point.  You can thank medusa for that at this point, as I've got to finish
>> up the medusa-compatible sync over power product(s) first...
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:57 PM, George Skorup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So... when is the RackInjector supposed to start shipping? Got a site
>>> with an 8-port injector and a SyncInjector and now need to add a couple
>>> more APs. So might as well replace it all with a RackInjector and gain a
>>> couple ports in the process. It's the towers that you never expected to
>>> have 15+ radios.
>>>
>>> And 12-port DIN PowerInjector+Sync? Got more smaller sites to upgrade
>>> too this spring and would be handy to have.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[George Skorup]

Do you intend to support Cambium Sync on the 12-port DIN as well? That 
would be pretty cool. Looking forward to both products. For now I guess 
I can stack another 4-port PowerInjector and get what I need.


On 4/12/2017 5:50 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
Well, I'm off to bed, looks like I've finally got the pieces all wired 
to test signal through the ethernet magnetics...  got to write the 
test procedure tomorrow.


This test equipment has (and will probably continue to be for a bit 
more) been a bit of a challenge as it's sort of an erector set - I've 
got all of the pieces I need to build the automatic test equipment I 
need (signal generators, oscilloscopes with pass/fail, relay 
switching, etc), but both wiring and how to actually program it for 
testing is left as an exercise for the reader.   I'm pretty certain 
I'm at the stage where I can actually start to write test procedures, 
with (almost) all the wiring done - I'm just missing a few cables 
which should be here in the next couple of days.




On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:


We're in the process of getting the manufacturing side of things
up to speed.  The product is for all intents and purposes done and
we could make and ship untested products at this point, as
everything is ready to go, except for testing and a couple of
non-critical remaining software items.  The automatic test
equipment we're putting in place to test and calibrate these is
turning out to be a bit more complex than we had hoped, and I
don't want to ship these without adequate testing.  I've been
putting in 16 hour days trying to get this completed, but it seems
that it's fighting me every step of the way.   I've told people
that the expected date is the end of this month. I'm still hopeful
we'll make this, as things seem to be progressing much more
quickly with the test equipment than it was a week ago.   But it
also wouldn't surprise me if it's a week or two late.

The only thing we've really got holding things up is getting this
test equipment running and doing final calibration integration in
the software.   The calibration process generates a calibration
file which ends up permanently in the device and the software to
read this isn't done, mainly because we don't have a sample
calibration file yet.

The 12 port DIN is likely going to be a while  maybe fall at
this point.  You can thank medusa for that at this point, as I've
got to finish up the medusa-compatible sync over power product(s)
first...



On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:57 PM, George Skorup
mailto:george.sko...@cbcast.com>> wrote:

So... when is the RackInjector supposed to start shipping? Got
a site with an 8-port injector and a SyncInjector and now need
to add a couple more APs. So might as well replace it all with
a RackInjector and gain a couple ports in the process. It's
the towers that you never expected to have 15+ radios.

And 12-port DIN PowerInjector+Sync? Got more smaller sites to
upgrade too this spring and would be handy to have.




-- 
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./

Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  |
http://www.packetflux.com 

 





--
*Forrest Christian* /CEO//, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc./
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com  | 
http://www.packetflux.com 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

Well, I'm off to bed, looks like I've finally got the pieces all wired to
test signal through the ethernet magnetics...  got to write the test
procedure tomorrow.

This test equipment has (and will probably continue to be for a bit more)
been a bit of a challenge as it's sort of an erector set - I've got all of
the pieces I need to build the automatic test equipment I need (signal
generators, oscilloscopes with pass/fail, relay switching, etc), but both
wiring and how to actually program it for testing is left as an exercise
for the reader.   I'm pretty certain I'm at the stage where I can actually
start to write test procedures, with (almost) all the wiring done - I'm
just missing a few cables which should be here in the next couple of days.



On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:40 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> We're in the process of getting the manufacturing side of things up to
> speed.  The product is for all intents and purposes done and we could make
> and ship untested products at this point, as everything is ready to go,
> except for testing and a couple of non-critical remaining software items.
> The automatic test equipment we're putting in place to test and calibrate
> these is turning out to be a bit more complex than we had hoped, and I
> don't want to ship these without adequate testing.  I've been putting in 16
> hour days trying to get this completed, but it seems that it's fighting me
> every step of the way.   I've told people that the expected date is the end
> of this month.  I'm still hopeful we'll make this, as things seem to be
> progressing much more quickly with the test equipment than it was a week
> ago.   But it also wouldn't surprise me if it's a week or two late.
>
> The only thing we've really got holding things up is getting this test
> equipment running and doing final calibration integration in the software.
>   The calibration process generates a calibration file which ends up
> permanently in the device and the software to read this isn't done, mainly
> because we don't have a sample calibration file yet.
>
> The 12 port DIN is likely going to be a while  maybe fall at this
> point.  You can thank medusa for that at this point, as I've got to finish
> up the medusa-compatible sync over power product(s) first...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:57 PM, George Skorup 
> wrote:
>
>> So... when is the RackInjector supposed to start shipping? Got a site
>> with an 8-port injector and a SyncInjector and now need to add a couple
>> more APs. So might as well replace it all with a RackInjector and gain a
>> couple ports in the process. It's the towers that you never expected to
>> have 15+ radios.
>>
>> And 12-port DIN PowerInjector+Sync? Got more smaller sites to upgrade too
>> this spring and would be handy to have.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>


-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
  

Re: [AFMUG] new PacketFlux injectors

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

We're in the process of getting the manufacturing side of things up to
speed.  The product is for all intents and purposes done and we could make
and ship untested products at this point, as everything is ready to go,
except for testing and a couple of non-critical remaining software items.
The automatic test equipment we're putting in place to test and calibrate
these is turning out to be a bit more complex than we had hoped, and I
don't want to ship these without adequate testing.  I've been putting in 16
hour days trying to get this completed, but it seems that it's fighting me
every step of the way.   I've told people that the expected date is the end
of this month.  I'm still hopeful we'll make this, as things seem to be
progressing much more quickly with the test equipment than it was a week
ago.   But it also wouldn't surprise me if it's a week or two late.

The only thing we've really got holding things up is getting this test
equipment running and doing final calibration integration in the software.
  The calibration process generates a calibration file which ends up
permanently in the device and the software to read this isn't done, mainly
because we don't have a sample calibration file yet.

The 12 port DIN is likely going to be a while  maybe fall at this
point.  You can thank medusa for that at this point, as I've got to finish
up the medusa-compatible sync over power product(s) first...



On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 7:57 PM, George Skorup 
wrote:

> So... when is the RackInjector supposed to start shipping? Got a site with
> an 8-port injector and a SyncInjector and now need to add a couple more
> APs. So might as well replace it all with a RackInjector and gain a couple
> ports in the process. It's the towers that you never expected to have 15+
> radios.
>
> And 12-port DIN PowerInjector+Sync? Got more smaller sites to upgrade too
> this spring and would be handy to have.
>



-- 
*Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com