[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history
On 5/19/2024 11:14 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote: A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself) I sense that no other generation following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? Thoughts? I'm 73. How do you think I feel. I worked for 25 years in a Computer Science Department of a University and not only did they not teach any of the history. They mostly didn't know it themselves anyway. I kept PDP-11's and Vaxen in the department for the students to see and, if they wished, use but eventually I was told it was wasting space and when they moved the department to the new science building there was no space allocated for anything but the bare minimum of equipment. bill
[cctalk] ANSI-M (Mumps) and the VA
With the VA dropping Vista what happens to that army of Mumps programmers they had? Can't see much call for them in the IT world today. Seems like a worse fate than COBOL Programmers. bill
[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC
On 5/8/2024 10:30 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On May 8, 2024, at 10:25 AM, Harald Arnesen via cctalk wrote: Paul Koning via cctalk [07/05/2024 19.31]: (Then again, I had a classmate who was taking a double major: math and music composition...) Mathemathics and music is not a rare combination - see Tom Lehrer, for instance. -- Hilsen Harald My wife (a voice major) pointed out that instrumental music majors tend to be good at math; voice majors not so much. Too bad it isn't reciprocal. I was great at math from a very early age. Did Algebra and Geometry in grade school. I have at least a half dozen instruments and I suck at all of them. I can play very technically on most of them but I have no art and can not put any real feeling into the music I play. But then, I only play for myself so I guess it really doesn't matter./ :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Double Density 3.5" Floppy Disks
On 5/6/2024 2:28 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: > You do need a very strong magnet. I’ve put 3.5 floppies on top of > a mag tape demagnitizer ( not technically called that, but you know > what i mean) and it had no effect at all. I could still read them fine > in my pc. I surmised that the magnetic field generated was not strong > enough to get through the plastic disk shield. Gave up after that. And yet, I have a cheap Radio Shack tape degauzer and it erases 3.5" disks just fine. I do it all the time whenever I have one that refuses to reformat. Quick pass over the degauzer and they usually work fine. If not, time to toss them. As for 720K disks I bought a box of new ones (12 boxes actually) several years ago on eBay and expect they will out last me. Especially now that I am moving everything to Goteks. bill
[cctalk] Re: BASIC
On 5/3/2024 10:13 AM, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: Steve, Where would you fit the Tandy Model 100 in here? Ultimately it supported a disk drive, ran basic and also sported an expansion box that included video support and a floppy. Ultimately, so did the TRS-80. At least Model I, III and 4. and ethernet, too. Come to think of it, so does the Color Computer. Not sure where we are going with this. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS source code
On 5/2/2024 9:27 AM, geneb via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 2 May 2024, Will Cooke via cctalk wrote: Some may find this interesting. Microsoft has released the source for MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2, and 4. https://github.com/microsoft/MS-DOS I think the most interesting thing about this is that they published it under an actual open source license (MIT) and not that nonsense that was used when they released 1.25 and 2.0 through the CHM years ago. All kind of meaningless as we have had an Open Source DOS equivalent for 3 decades already. bill
[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC
On 5/1/2024 8:04 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 5/1/24 16:51, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: APL was incredible. I was amazed. I was immediately able to do a few simple things that were useful for my boss and myself, and writing simple programs within hours. Its matrix arithmetic was awesome. APL typeball on a selectric terminal at GSFC, . . . Some of the keys were re-labeled, but there was a chart on the wall of which keyboard characters were which APL symbols. It was indeed. It was also one of the first languages implemented on a microprocessor-based personal computer system. (MCM-70). To me, APL is logical--strict right-to-left precedence; simple array and matrix operations. I've long wondered if we introduced students to APL as a first language, what our applications code would look like today. Marist College did. We had an intern from there when I was at West Point. He was not better than any of the interns I later ran into and because the only language he was learning at Marist was APL (after all, this was IBM-Land) he was really not of much use to us in a Univac-1100 shop. bill
[cctalk] Re: APL (Was: BASIC
On 5/1/2024 7:51 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: What would our world be like if the first home computers were to have had APL, instead of BASIC? Maybe not instead of BASIC but I had APL on my TRS-80. bill
[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...
On 4/27/2024 7:43 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution. So I'd say all year. Not one specific date I had that magazine. Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many years ago. But even at that, nothing for me to celebrate. I couldn't afford one then and I still can't afford one. The same goes for the IMSAI-8080. And the Heath H-8 falls into the same category. :-( bill
[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.
On 4/23/2024 8:06 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: Did the Dimension 68000 (a multi-processor machine) have Z80 and 6502? What about the Tandy 16 and 6000. M68K and Z80. bill
[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.
On 4/22/2024 2:30 PM, Paul Koning wrote: On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Following along this line of thought but also in regards all our other small CPUs Would it not be possible to use something like a Blue Pill to make a small board (small enough to actually fit in the CPU socket) that emulated these old CPUs? Definitely enough horse power just wondered if there was enough room for the microcode. Microcode? Well, that's what I would have called it. :-) It would bring an even more interesting concept to the table. The ability to add modifications to some of these chips to see just where they might have gone. While I don't mind the VAX, I always wondered what the PDP-11 could have been if it had been developed instead. :-) bill Of course the VAX started out as a modified PDP-11; the name makes that clear. And I saw an early document of what became the VAX 11/780, labeled PDP-11/85. Perhaps that was obfuscation. I have never seen anything but the vaguest similarity to the PDP-11 in the VAX. I know it was called a VAX-11 early on but I never understood why. Anyway, I would think such a small microprocessor could emulate a PDP-11 just fine, and probably fast enough. The issue isn't so much the instruction set emulation but rather the electrical interface. That's what would be needed to be a drop-in replacement. Ignoring the voltage levels, there's the matter of implementing whatever the bus protocols are. Possibly an RP2040 (the engine in the Raspberry Pico) would serve for this, with the PIO engines providing help with the low level signaling. Sounds like a fun exercise for the student. I wasn't thinking just the PDP-11. I was thinking about the ability to replace failing CPU's of other flavors once production come to an end. I suspect that is far enough in the future that I won't have to worry about it, but it sounded like an interesting project. bill
[cctalk] Re: Z80 vs other microprocessors of the time.
Following along this line of thought but also in regards all our other small CPUs Would it not be possible to use something like a Blue Pill to make a small board (small enough to actually fit in the CPU socket) that emulated these old CPUs? Definitely enough horse power just wondered if there was enough room for the microcode. It would bring an even more interesting concept to the table. The ability to add modifications to some of these chips to see just where they might have gone. While I don't mind the VAX, I always wondered what the PDP-11 could have been if it had been developed instead. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....
A README in the root of 2.11 says: The following manual pages are NOT in 2.10BSD but ARE in 4.3BSD: and one of them is drum.4 so, I guess we need to look at a 4.3BSD system to find out what drum they are talking about. I have a feeling this is a device that works on the VAX but is actually not found on any PDP-11. Why it automatically makes the device node is beyond me. bill
[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....
On 4/15/2024 9:45 AM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: Well, I can submit a correction, but does anyone remember /dev/drum? I don't recall that in V6m or V7 Unix, I guess I could fire one of them up and see There's at least references to /dev/drum in 2.11BSD, I forget if it was in the docs or actually important stuff in the source. I don't have my PDP-11/83 set up at the moment to check! I just fired up my running copy and while there is a /dev/drum device there does not appear to be any mention of it anywhere in the file system, not even in the sources. Not sure what that means. Have to try a deeper search but that will take some time to run. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
One last shot. I have an RX Floppy disk unit. Worked fine until one time the last time I had it hooked up and after about an hour it just stopped responding. All I get now is the well known click-click on init and then nothing. I am sure it is repairable either by troubleshooting or just buying another boardset. Anybody interested? I imagine a number of people here will be driving by not far from my home on their way back from VCF. bill
[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M
On 4/10/2024 6:54 AM, Martin.Hepperle--- via cctalk wrote: Did you compile in memory or to disk? If you have little RAM, it might be advantageous to compile to disk, creating a .COM file. And the winner is It's been so long since I used Turbo anything I had forgotten that option. It compiled fine. Doesn't work, but at least it compiled. :-) Thank you. bill
[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M
On 4/8/2024 5:00 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: On Mon, 8 Apr 2024, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two systems. A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80 Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M. I tried to compile the version of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal. On both systems it runs out of memory and crashes in the same place. Surely the developers would have noticed this. Anybody here have any experience with this? Have you tried it with "CP/M PLUS"? (CP/M 3.0, which Radio Shack sold for the model 4) Not yet. I don't have a 3.0 setup with a hard disk yet and I doubt everything will fit on a floppy. Does the Turbo Pascal run on those machines with trivial source file? or subsets of the Kermit code? Haven't tried any other programs yet as I really wanted Kermit but none of the other CP/M Kermits work on these machines (at least not so far) but the problem does appear to be that the program is just to big. I just can't believe none of he developers noticed or maybe that was the point where they all gave up. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M
On 4/8/2024 5:17 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 2:19 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two systems. If it's an old version of TP that asks "Include error messages (Y/N)?", did you try saying N? Same error, one file further along. bill
[cctalk] Turbo Pascal Kermit for CP/M
I'm having bit of fun with my various CP/M systems but I ran into what I see as an interesting problem. I got Turbo Pascal on two systems. A TRS-80 model 4P running Montezuma Micro CP/M and a TRS-80 Model II running Pickles & Trout CP/M. I tried to compile the version of Kermit written for CP/M using Turbo Pascal. On both systems it runs out of memory and crashes in the same place. Surely the developers would have noticed this. Anybody here have any experience with this? bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 4/4/2024 3:49 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2024 at 10:20 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's go for nowadays? I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language card. I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and 2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives. It also has a Microsoft Soft Card for running CP/M. And I have the docs and disks. bill It depends on the model. Typically an Apple ][ of any model sells for $100-$250, depending on accessories and configuration. Unless you have a straight Apple ][ (and not Plus, as I'm assuming), what you describe sounds like a $250-$300 ][+ system, and $400-$450 for the //e. Give or take eBay markup. Well, The SoftCard and the Language Card (why did they call it that?) both go for $100 a piece. The one is a IIe, not a \\e. There are some on eBay now for more than $2000. I wouldn't expect that but I do find it interesting that all the stuff I have is worthless unless someone else is selling it. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 4/4/2024 2:39 PM, Zane Healy wrote: On Apr 4, 2024, at 8:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: 7 - 230M Carts (one labeled RSTS V10) Is the RSTS/E disk something that needs to be preserved? Not by me. And I created it. Not sure if it was from an 11/44, 11/73 or 11/23 but it dates back to when Mentec gave me a license to run PDP-11 OSes at the University. As a matter of fact, I see where I still have the TK50 and 9-track install tapes. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
Not really sure I want to get rid of them yet, but what do Apple II's go for nowadays? I have an Apple II with 2 Disk II's and a language card. I also have an Apple IIe with three external disk cards and 2 3.5" drives and 3 5.25" drives. It also has a Microsoft Soft Card for running CP/M. And I have the docs and disks. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 4/4/2024 11:05 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: One more list before I give up. Anybody interested in Iomega drive? I have: 2 - 90 Pro 2 - 150 Multidisk and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet. To go along with them I have: 4 - 90M Carts 3 - 150M Carts (one labeled Windows NT) 7 - 230M Carts (one labeled RSTS V10) I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to the Sparc Pizza boxes. I also have piles of IDE drives that range from the days when you had "disk types" for the PC Bios up to GB sizes. Also, CD drives including a bunch of various laptop models. I have piles of other stuff, too, but I am not going to bother listing as I thought the most valuable were the brand new DEC disks and the SB shelves but they apparently aren't worth a thing. Found the 230 drive. Actually two of them. And both in external boxes. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 4/4/2024 11:36 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 4/4/24 08:05, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: One more list before I give up. Anybody interested in Iomega drive? I have: 2 - 90 Pro 2 - 150 Multidisk and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet. To go along with them I have: 4 - 90M Carts 3 - 150M Carts (one labeled Windows NT) 7 - 230M Carts (one labeled RSTS V10) I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to the Sparc Pizza boxes. Just to be clear, Bill, these are the 5.25" Bernoulli drives, right? Was there any other kind? Oh yeah, I also have one marketed for use on the Mac. It says 88M on the front. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
One more list before I give up. Anybody interested in Iomega drive? I have: 2 - 90 Pro 2 - 150 Multidisk and somewhere here I have a 230M but I haven't come across it yet. To go along with them I have: 4 - 90M Carts 3 - 150M Carts (one labeled Windows NT) 7 - 230M Carts (one labeled RSTS V10) I also have shoe boxes if SIMMS and DIMMS some going back to the Sparc Pizza boxes. I also have piles of IDE drives that range from the days when you had "disk types" for the PC Bios up to GB sizes. Also, CD drives including a bunch of various laptop models. I have piles of other stuff, too, but I am not going to bother listing as I thought the most valuable were the brand new DEC disks and the SB shelves but they apparently aren't worth a thing. bill
[cctalk] Re: EMP was: oscilloscopes
On 4/2/2024 1:47 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: Absolutely, by all means go right ahead. As you pointed out, the NEC absolutely requires bonding all ground rods. And Roger Block spells out in quite some detail why this is important in his books. Come to think of it, apart from bonding electrical system grounds, I think there's also a requirement for bonding other metal objects that are anywhere nearby, like other utilities. I'm not sure about the details; they should be in the NEC or in building codes. Propane tanks and their associated gas lines. bill
[cctalk] Re: EMP was: oscilloscopes
On 4/2/2024 11:01 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 4/2/24 00:03, Just Kant via cctalk wrote: Accordimg to certain individuals on this list, going back a few years, electronics/computers can be damaged due to an electrical storm, presumably very intense activity, even while off. Go look through the archives. I have had two incidents where nearby lightning strikes blew out components on gear I had. Many years ago, I had two computers connected by a parallel port cable, and chips on both ends were popped by a strike that might have hit power lines about two blocks away. About a decade ago, we had a lightning strike that hit trees half a block away. It took out an ethernet port on one computer, and blew out a bunch of stuff on a burglar alarm I had built. Both involved long wire runs. I have had lots of stuff taken out by lightening. Even when it wasn't particularly close but hit a power line as much as a mile away. On a much more interesting note, I used to live in a cute little farmhouse in New Windsor, NY. Our power came in a a line that hung across the vacant lot next to me. About 500 yards. We took a direct hit on that line one night. Dog got shocked by pulse came thru the stone floor of the mud room. A TRS-80 was toast. A modem was toast. TV and a few other household items. There was a Terak 8510 not only plugged in but running at the time. It didn't even reboot. Just kept on plugging along. Nobody made them like DEC did. bill
[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes
On 4/1/2024 7:12 PM, Rick Bensene via cctalk wrote: And still works! Built to withstand an atomic bombardment. Except for the EMP. It'll theoretically render such devices nice looking, well-built scrap. The old completely vacuum-tube-based, discrete component oscilloscope from back in the day may actually survive such an event if it's outside the blast radius but still reasonably sheltered; and you are also outside lethal fallout zones, or can shelter and survive in radioactivity-safe places for a long time. Stock up on quality-made (e.g., Tektronix, Hewlett Packard) tube and cold-cathode-based test equipment (VTVM, oscilloscope, etc.) as well as quality radios and transceivers. Hopefully they will continue to serve as interesting artifacts of a time gone by, but if something were to go sideways in our world, they could potentially come in very handy. You do realize that in the event of such an occurrence there would be nothing left to use them on. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: oscilloscopes
On 4/1/2024 6:56 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 1 Apr 2024, Just Kant via cctalk wrote: I have more then I need. All the working ones are HP w/color crts, and as far as older, verifiably vintage tools (right down to the 680x0 processor in either) I have to admit I favor them as a brand. Call we an oddball, weird egg, badges I wear with pride. But who could resist the allure of the newer ultra portable, even handheld units (some with bandwidth or sampling rates to 50mhz). I'm a big cheapo. But there's no real reason to agonize over a 65 - 200$ or thereabouts acquisition. It's a bit tiring to wade through the piles of availability. I favor a desktop unit, larger screen (but not always, careful). But most of those need wall current I think? The convenience of a handheld battery powered unit obviously has it's benefits. I will always love and dote upon my color crt based HPs. But the damned things are so heavy, so unwieldy. Judy-Jude knocked my 54111d over, hit the paved floor, shook the house. And still works! Built to withstand an atomic bombardment. I had a Tektronix 512, and an NLS215 (battery powered portable) from a company that switched over to making Kaypros. I gave it away at one of the first VCFs. I guess that the vintage ones are no longer adequate. My first one was a Heathkit I built. I now carry mine in my shirt pocket. bill
[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS
On 3/28/2024 7:29 PM, Alexander Schreiber via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 05:02:10PM +, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for vms ?? Not for OpenVMS/VAX, that stopped more than a year ago. IIRC you _can_ get something like[1] it for OpenVMS/amd64 from VMS Software. The only legal[0] workaround for VMS on VAX is to go back all the way before LMF was introduced which IIRC means running VMS 4.4 and nothing newer. Sad and mildly irritating, but nothing we can do about it. Kind regards, Alex. [0] Personal opinion. Worth every cent you paid for it. I'm not a lawyer and I never played one on TV. Void were prohibited. Caveat emptor. [1] Last time I checked, there was a time limited "educational purposes" virtual machine image one could download and run with the appropriate hypervisor software. ^^ That is going away, too. bill
[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS
On 3/28/2024 3:08 PM, Doug McIntyre via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2024 at 01:47:03PM -0400, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for vms ?? You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. The newsletter I received said that they are dropping Alpha/Integrity OpenVMS licensing, but x86 licensing will continue. (VAX licenses have been gone for awhile, from before VSI??). "We will continue to offer community licenses for OpenVMS on x86. You can apply here" https://vmssoftware.com/products/licenses/ A second letter the same day said that the Community License was done. X86 will be a pre-configured VM, good for one year at which time it will be replaced with a new VM. Most people see that as meaning if you use it every year you will have to re-do anything you did to the image that was not part of the original. And also "We are also launching the OpenVMS Ambassador program. As an OpenVMS Ambassador, you can get a custom OpenVMS license for Alpha, Integrity or x86 free of charge. Read more about the OpenVMS Ambassador program and apply here" https://share.hsforms.com/131UO5x_iSEGxlYs8pQTYSQdi37l Read the requirements. Most Hobbyists would not qualify. I certainly wouldn't. I have been a VMS User for about 44 years and an systems administrator for about 30 years. At this point, I see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I suspect it is an oncoming train. bill
[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS
On 3/28/2024 1:25 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Mar 28, 2024, at 1:02 PM, Alessandro Mazzini via cctalk wrote: Sorry if I intrude... now is no more possible to obtain hobbyist licenses for vms ?? You can still get one for OpenVMS/x86. As of the past few days, that may not be the case anymore. bill
[cctalk] Re: Amoeba OS
On 3/28/2024 12:47 PM, Warner Losh wrote: On Thu, Mar 28, 2024, 5:37 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from the University in the Netherlands? Searching the web finds only the current version which runs on X86. I am looking for the original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to me) the VAX. https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba <https://github.com/OSPreservProject/amoeba> has the sun binaries but not the vax/mips binaries. That's the current version. I am surprised they have Sun but I also expect it is not the Suns from the original which were Sun 3 and Sparc pizza boxes. We used the Sparc version at the University of Scranton. Some Grad students did research and their thesis on Amoeba. We had a whole lab dedicated to it and it was really cool. I have a nice stack of Vaxstation 3100's sitting around and now that you can no longer get hobbyist licenses for VMS I thought it might be fun to create an Amoeba Cluster. If any like minded people popped up it might be fun to try and build a really large and widely separated cluster just to see if it would have been possible. bill
[cctalk] Amoeba OS
I know this is a real long shot but is there any chance someone has a copy of the original distribution of the Amoeba OS from the University in the Netherlands? Searching the web finds only the current version which runs on X86. I am looking for the original which also ran on Sparc and (of the most interest to me) the VAX. Remember when they said now that we had the web nothing would ever be lost again? :-( bill
[cctalk] Cleanup time again
On 3/26/2024 9:15 AM, Paul Koning wrote: On Mar 26, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. Why is there no way to read them? If you have a PC with a SCSI card you can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whatever means. These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to the VAX cluster. There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to extract usable information. bill Do you have just part of the RAID set, or enough disks to make a complete one? Don't know, but doubt it. Some of the disks have probably been used for other purposes since the VAXen went away more than 20 years ago. If the latter then it's a matter of reverse engineering the RAID layout, which is likely to be doable. While possible, I think hardly likely. I don't even remember what the appliance was. Something DECish. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 3/25/2024 9:51 PM, Henry Bent wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 20:14, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote: Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. Why is there no way to read them? If you have a PC with a SCSI card you can easily boot into the Linux or BSD distro of your choice and make a dd (or ddrescue) image of the entire drive, which could then be accessed by whatever means. These disks were part of a really large RAID array in a SAN connected to the VAX cluster. There is no way of reconstructing it and so no way to extract usable information. bill
[cctalk] Plessey 703185-100C
So, sorting thru stuff I came across this white elephant again. I never found anything to positively identify it but I always assumed it was some kind of buss extender. One board is fully populated with chips and the other connected together with a ribbon cable is totally passive. But this time I found the funniest thing about it. The passive end has a sticker on it with an expiration date. I have to admit I have never found an expiration date on any of my PDP or VAX hardware before. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 3/25/2024 6:19 PM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2024 at 18:05, Mike Stein via cctalk wrote: Is there a manufacturer's equivalent number for an RX-1DB? I believe that Bill was referring to the RZ1DB, which is a 9.1GB Quantum Atlas II. Oops. I guess the fingers work as good as the memory. Sorry about that. I've got about 20 of them. I know they haven't been used since they were taken out of the VAX Cluster I ran at the University. Nothing I have used the SB boxes with since then would know what to do with 9GB of disk space. :-) But, if needed I could probably test them on a PC I have with an Adaptec SCSI in it. It's intended for Ersatz-11 but I expect does could use a disk that big. Too bad there's no way to read them. Might be some interesting stuff left behind by the VAX. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 3/25/2024 1:49 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's . Even I had forgotten that any of them were that big. Of course, the probably eliminates their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you take them out of the box. :-) And, just for yocks I looked for them on the web. Amazing how many people are selling them with bogus specs like 10,000 RPM. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
In case it piques someone's interest, a number of the used disks in the SB style carriers are 9GB RX1DB's . Even I had forgotten that any of them were that big. Of course, the probably eliminates their use on a PDP or VAX but they are still Ultra Wide SCSI if you take them out of the box. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 3/23/2024 11:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. Wow!!! Maybe I should try eBay again. I was going to let them go for $20-$25 but I according to google they are listing for $180 to $250. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
Here's something operators of older systems might find useful. Allied Telesis CentreCOM 210TS Twisted Pair Transciever IEE 802.3 10 BASE-T (MAU) I have 14 used and another 14 still in the box, never been opened. bill
[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?
On 3/21/2024 9:19 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote: I just got a pdp-11 to boot and it seems to have rt-11 installed. How do I do an orderly shutdown? Google has info on simh but this ain't that. Thanks! 73 Eugene w2hx Turn off the power switch. Unlike most other OSes people here are familiar with there are no background processes running on RT-11. bill KB3YV
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 3/21/2024 6:52 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote: Why are you paying for postage as an eBay seller? Buyer paying postage is the standard. At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort. It would cost more than that in postage. And if the cost of shipping is more than the cost of the item I stop at that point. As another note, back when I tried to be an eBay seller, I had eBay refuse to let me sell things claiming I was asking too much for postage. Being as the only shipping method I ever used was the USPS "if it fits it ships" which seemed to be pretty much the cheapest method I could find. It seemed they wanted me to subsidize the shipping myself. I gave up trying. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
On 3/21/2024 2:02 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2024 at 10:58 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything? bill Bill, eBay is good for gauging interest and pricing out stuff like this. Recent sales there show there is at least general interest, and they seem to sell for sub-$20 each. As a buyer I have done well on eBay. As a seller all I ever did was waste my time. At sub $20 they aren't worth the effort. It would cost more than that in postage. How about an HP Scanjet IIcx scanner with SCSI interface. Other than historical value probably not much interest there either. bill
[cctalk] Re: Cleanup time again
Are Wacom CTE-430 tablets worth anything? bill
[cctalk] Cleanup time again
Time to dispose of some more of my stuff so it doesn't end up in the trash when my widow has to clear the house. Any interest in BA356-SBs? All with disks in them. And I have a decent stack of used RZs in caddies. I even still have 11 RZ28's still in the static bags. Would have to be someone close enough to pick them up here in the Poconos but I have seen a lot of postings from people in Eastern PA and north and middle NJ. Is it worth my taking the time to count up exactly what I have or would no one be interested in making an offer. They will not be going on eBay. Just for information, I have used these with PDP-11's with 3rd party SCSI modules, PC's with SCSI Cards and Ersatz-11 and even a Tandy Color Computer with a TC^3 SCSI card and NitrOS9. bill
[cctalk] DEC Processor Books
I have often wondered about the people we find in the various DEC Processor (and other) books. Were they models in staged photo-sessions or were these candid shots from DEC facilities and if so, can anyone identify who they might be. Looking thru some of the books again I came across an interesting photo on page 42 of the 1981 pdp11 processor handbook / pdp11 04 24 34a 44 70. If you take a magnifier to the picture you will find the system presented in that photo is not a pdp11 but a VAX. :-) I wonder what other DEC systems are contained in these photos? bill
[cctalk] Re: 5 1/4" and 3.5" disk duplication machines
On 3/10/2024 1:13 AM, Travis Pierce via cctalk wrote: I definitely do. I rebuilt a Trace ST8000 last year and got it up and running. I also built a 5.25" duplicator with 12 drives a few months back. I'd love to find a commercial 5.25" duplicator. Travis On Sat, Mar 9, 2024 at 2:55 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Does anyone have interest in vintage diskette duplication / duplication machines? Would this make for an interesting VCF exhibit? Does/did anyone use these commercially? Bill Many moons ago I wrote software to run an 8" disk duplicator for making copies of disks for the Terak. Those were the days. :-) bill
[cctalk] Another blast from the past...
So, here I was binge watching a scifi series called "Night Sky", which sadly was not renewed, but I digress... In one of the episodes two of the characters go to see a man who apparently is a monitor for something having to do with the devices that teleport people all over not only earth but other planets as well. He has this workbench covered with computers that look like mostly PC's but some could be Suns or other real computers. And many displays with really cool graphics. And sitting in the middle of all of this is --- An IMSAI-8080. :-) Front panel is clearly visible in a number of scenes. Of course, with the program being canceled one has to wonder, did it go back into a prop warehouse somewhere or just the nearest dumpster? :-( bill
[cctalk] Re: RD54 Maxtor XT-2190 w/one long meep
Back in the day when these disks were common I used to elicit a good laugh from my boss when I got out my little mallet and smacked the side of the drive. Stiction was the problem but a good hammer fixes anything. And, no, I never had it damage a disk. I guess it was all in the technique. :-) bill
[cctalk] VCF SoCal Saturday
On 2/9/2024 5:08 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk wrote: There's a good chance I'll make it to the upcoming VCF SoCal coming up on Sat. the 17th. Some things I'm looking for: - recently an associate of mine gifted me their original 1978 TRS-80 (Model 1). But not much in accessories. I have a suitable tape deck, but other accessories might be nice. His father used this particular unit while he worked in the Tandy Towers in downtown FW (that's all I know about it so far). Checkout the MISE and MIRE from Bartlett Labs and the FreHD from Ian Mavric. bill
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
On 1/31/2024 8:30 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote: I suppose I should’ve specified “of the versions of BASIC I’ve ever heard anyone talk about still using this century.” :P Basic09 is probably still in use on OS9000. VAX BASIC is still in use on VMS ALPHA and Itanium and is about to be released for the recent port of VMS to x86-64. I personally know of a number of rather large production systems in VMS BASIC. RSTS/E is harder to say. There are still a large number of PDP-11 sites running using both real hardware and commercial emulator systems but which OSes they are using I can't say. Could be all RT-11 and RSX-11. But then, BASIC-PLUS and BASIC-PLUS2 both run on RSX-11 as well. I just don't have much experience with RSX-11 as I never really liked it. And none of this takes into account hobbyists like me who use all of them. bill
[cctalk] Re: VCF SoCal
On 1/31/2024 1:14 PM, mark audacity romberg via cctalk wrote: BBC BASIC is the best BASIC there ever was, and I feel sad for those who have never used it to see how powerful BASIC can be with proper structured programming. It’s honestly like a different language. Basic09? VAX BASIC? RSTS/E BASIC-PLUS? Microsoft was not the only BASIC provider in the US. bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
On 1/15/2024 10:47 AM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: On Sunday (01/14/2024 at 09:55PM -0600), Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote: There are a number of WWVB simulator projects out there that will transmit a weak but usable signal to your clock after getting sync’d from ntp or GPS NMEA time messages. They were developed to help people develop receivers :-) One in particular uses an AVR and it should be pretty simple to make it do the “old protocol”. You’d then hide this behind your clock and it will sync to it instead of the actual WWVB signal. Solves the protocol problem and the weak signal problem from real WWVB with one little circuit. If Google does not provide, I can dig up some links tomorrow. Hmm. Strange. I did follow-up shortly after the above post with this link, https://www.instructables.com/WWVB-Simulator/ but I don't see that that made it to the list. Chris It did. I got it. bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
Will Cooke and Jonathon Chapman explained it. A change to the protocol that old clocks don't know about. bill
[cctalk] Re: WWVB
On 1/14/2024 2:54 PM, Jonathan Chapman via cctalk wrote: Bill, If it's an older clock it's probably tripping over a timecode transmission format/modulation change. I forget the exact details but changes were required to my old 8085-based Spectracom receiver. Thanks, that's probably it. I assume if I build one of the W8BH WWVB clocks that problem either has been or can be fixed. OH well, the clock I have was a gift to my father long ago when I first got him into ham radio. It still serves to remind me of how much I miss him. Thanks again. bill KB3YV
[cctalk] WWVB
This is kind computer related but maybe more ham radio related but I figure if anywhere, here is the place to find an answer. I have a SkyScan ATOMIC CLOCK. It is supposed to get its time from WWVB. The antenna icon that is supposed to mean it is receiving WWVB is on. Your probably wondering why I keep saying "supposed to". The clock is always wrong. Slow by about 2 minutes. Is there a known problem with WWVB? bill
[cctalk] RSTS/E questions.
I am back to playing with RSTS/E 10.1 again and have a couple questions if there is still anyone around with experience. First: Is there a way to change the allowed length for passwords? Second: Is there a way to make login take the assigned name rather than the x,x format for logins? I seem to remember using a system once that did but I have no idea if it was legit or a local hack. Although I have no problem using local hacks. :-) Need to get a system going and maybe even join HECNET. I really wish there was TCP/IP for RSTS. bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP-8/E front panels
On 11/17/2023 8:52 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: Hi Bob, I can't help with your search for 8/e front panels, but you mentioned "green switch boards". I have a nicely restored DEC LAB-8/e with green switch toggles. Do you have spare green switch toggles? I would love to have one dark green and one light green toggle. I don't need the actual switch, but would be happy to take the toggles with switch. Please let me know if you can help. Have you ever considered making your own? https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:360853 bill
[cctalk] Tandy Model 6000 w/XENIX
Is there anywhere I could go where people who are playing with this system hang out? I used to have a couple of very early Model 16's and ran Xenix on them. I also worked with a couple of 6000's in a real production environment. Lately I got interested again and found an emulator that does a real good job and a bunch of rather interesting software for it. Some that wasn't around when I was doing this for a job. In one case, the package has a note that while it installs they couldn't get into it because the first thing it did was ask for username and password. Well, I figured out how to get into it and maybe there are others interested. It's nice to be able to see how real work was done back in the day. I have always wished some of the production software for the PDP-11 had survived, but at least this is a start. bill
[cctalk] Re: PDP11 and Ultrix 11
On 10/18/2023 10:00 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 at 09:56, hupfadekroua via cctalk wrote: Hello all, does someone have a SCSI disc image of Ultrix 11 for a QBus based (11/73) PDP11. Ultrix-11 doesn't support SCSI disks, as far as I am aware. What hardware are you trying to use? In any case, you can easily use SIMH to install 3.1 (or your preferred version) and then transfer that to real hardware. PDP-11 SCSI Modules emulate MSCP and RA disks and work fine with Ultrix-11. bill
[cctalk] Re: GEAC
On 9/29/2023 9:39 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: I believe Bill is referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geac_Computer_Corporation -Henry On Fri, 29 Sept 2023 at 09:38, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: Are you referring to GE/PAC RTMOS? On Fri, Sep 29, 2023 at 9:34 AM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: Here's a question for all our Computer Museum curators. Have any of the old GEAC Library systems ever been salvaged and put into a museum? They were curious boxes and I think would make a nice addition to a collection. Yes, we had one at the University of Scranton until it was replaced by a software only solution running on VAX/VMS. bill
[cctalk] GEAC
Here's a question for all our Computer Museum curators. Have any of the old GEAC Library systems ever been salvaged and put into a museum? They were curious boxes and I think would make a nice addition to a collection. bill
[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party
On 9/8/2023 5:07 PM, Zane Healy wrote: On Sep 8, 2023, at 6:20 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 9/7/2023 9:20 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:49 PM ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote: Here in Oz, VAX has been a popular brand of vacuum cleaner for many decades. We had one until recently. https://www.vax.com.au/ http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/VAX.html "Nothing sucks like a VAX!!" :-) bill I rather like the old Trade Show button from WordPerfect that is sitting on top of the Keyboard I’m using to type this (an old Apple ADB Extended II Keyboard via USB converter), it says “Loyal to VAX”. I normally have a physical VAX running 24x7. It was shutdown recently, but only due to high temps, and it’s back online now. I've been thinking of bringing up a VAX again. I think I can fix my VXT and I think I now have some hardware that will let me put a PC class LCD monitor on it. VAXStations just aren't much fun without the graphics. bill
[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party
On 9/8/2023 9:29 AM, Raymond Wiker via cctalk wrote: On 8 Sep 2023, at 15:20, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 9/7/2023 9:20 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:49 PM ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote: Here in Oz, VAX has been a popular brand of vacuum cleaner for many decades. We had one until recently. https://www.vax.com.au/ http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/VAX.html "Nothing sucks like a VAX!!" :-) I remember seeing that slogan in the 80s, when I was a student in Glasgow. When it first showed up it was all the rage on comp.os.vms. And then I got the announcement signs on the side of the Central Scranton Expressway here in PA announcing "Coming soon - VMS". Of course, that turned out to be The "Virtual Messaging System" which I am sure people see on their highways every day any more. bill
[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party
On 9/7/2023 9:20 PM, Gavin Scott via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 4:49 PM ste...@malikoff.com steven--- via cctalk wrote: Here in Oz, VAX has been a popular brand of vacuum cleaner for many decades. We had one until recently. https://www.vax.com.au/ http://catb.org/jargon/html/V/VAX.html "Nothing sucks like a VAX!!" :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: TI 960
On 9/4/2023 4:23 PM, James B DiGriz via cctalk wrote: I can see some similarity of the 900 series CRU I/O to the Inmos Transputer serial links, but I've never heard of them referred to as Transputers. The 960 was called a "bit pusher", though. Looked similar to me, too. I was just curious if an interest in Transputers had sprung up. Maybe 20 years ago I had boxes of them and even the ones that went into Sun-3's. I couldn't even give them away. Don't remember what happened to them at this point. Might have thrown them in with stuff I gave to a couple of fledgling museums. bill
[cctalk] Re: TI 960
On 9/4/2023 11:27 AM, James B DiGriz via cctalk wrote: I'm interested, the ATS-960 automated test system in particular. I think that's what was with the Applicon I mentioned. jbdigriz On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 14:22:53 +0200 (CEST) Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: I won't give up my hopes, but it seems that this system is practically extinct and that noone is really interested in it, although it was the start for the later 980/990 and 9900 series. Weren't the TI 900 series the things called Transputers? bill
[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
On 9/4/2023 3:31 AM, Raymond Wiker via cctalk wrote: On 2 Sep 2023, at 15:07, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 9/1/2023 11:45 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote: My first computer was a Poly-88. I had no monitor and no keyboard. I read and understood the instructions about finding a TV that used a transformer power supply. Many newer TV's of that day were not using a transformer for the main supply. I went to several secondhand stores and found one that would work. The keyboard was from a surplus Singer data entry machine ( I thought they only made sewing machines ). Believe it or not, at one time they even made Flight Simulators. Early 70's I wanted to work at their Binghamton, NY facility but like IBM in Endicott I couldn't even get my foot in the door. bill The Singer Link F-16 simulator used Norsk Data superminis (initially ND50, but later ND500). This is not really relevant to S-100 and video monitors, but I like to mention Norsk Data whenever the opportunity arises. Our Singer Link facility was gone by the time the F-16 came around. Think F-4 and maybe even F-104 when I was trying to get a job. Not sure if they did helicopters, too but it would have been UH-1, Cobra and Chinook. bill
[cctalk] Re: Silly question about S-100 and video monitors
On 9/1/2023 11:45 AM, dwight via cctalk wrote: My first computer was a Poly-88. I had no monitor and no keyboard. I read and understood the instructions about finding a TV that used a transformer power supply. Many newer TV's of that day were not using a transformer for the main supply. I went to several secondhand stores and found one that would work. The keyboard was from a surplus Singer data entry machine ( I thought they only made sewing machines ). Believe it or not, at one time they even made Flight Simulators. Early 70's I wanted to work at their Binghamton, NY facility but like IBM in Endicott I couldn't even get my foot in the door. bill
[cctalk] Re: Good Inventory Program for keeping track of my DEC boards, parts, computers, etc?
On 8/17/2023 2:14 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote: I'm a little surprised noone mentioned Google sheets or something that's cloud native? Probably only accessible from newer systems though but I've debated it since it would be instantly accessible from phone also. Why would you give all your data to Google? bill
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On 8/5/2023 4:07 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote: On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 1:46 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though. While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them. Haven't even turned one on since I retired from the University in 2015 and they came home . Wouldn't take an Apple 1 as a gift but I, too, would love to have an IMSAI and a SWTPC 6800. But...because the apple I is so valuable people have been motivated to produce really nice replica motherboards. The replicas give many the chance to experience the Apple I at a reasonable price, thanks indirectly to those willing to pay for the real thing. Otherwise we'd probably never get to use one. It's fun to find original parts and sockets to try to get a replica as close as possible to an original. I guess it does not matter how or why it happenend but the Apple I is the ultimate vintage computing collectible. Personally I use my IMSAI somewhat regularly, thats my favorite computer from the mid 70s. Nowadays my most used vintage computers are my TRS-80's. Even more than my PDP-11's and VAX. But if I had an IMSAI I think it would be #1. bill
[cctalk] Re: Apple 1
On 8/3/2023 3:45 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote: I’d still prefer the IMSAI 8080 or SWTPC 6800 though. While I have a couple Apple ]['s I really don't do much with them. Haven't even turned one on since I retired from the University in 2015 and they came home . Wouldn't take an Apple 1 as a gift but I, too, would love to have an IMSAI and a SWTPC 6800. bill
[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
On 8/4/2023 1:39 PM, Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk wrote: Has anyone tested Chris' images with real RX50s and a real PDP-11? If not, could please someone try the MicroRSTS V2.1 images? Which version of RSTS is MicroRSTS V2.1 equivalent to? bill
[cctalk] Re: SCO on Virtualbox
On 8/4/2023 2:46 PM, Kelly Leavitt via cctalk wrote: From: emanuel stiebler via cctalk Sent: Friday, August 4, 2023 10:20 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Cc: jim stephens ; emanuel stiebler Subject: [cctalk] Re: SCO on Virtualbox On 2023-08-03 20:29, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 8/3/23 13:21, KenUnix via cctalk wrote: My efforts have failed. My host is Ubuntu 22.04 with Virtualbox 7.0.10. I'd be curious given the nature of SCO if anyone has posted the goods to install any of them, and what versions. Wasn't there a joke back than, that if somebody figure out, how to install SCO on any machine, he was considered a "computer guru"? Oh, for the love of god, it wasn't that difficult. We were an SCO shop for a decade. Maybe more. It worked really well for us. We had WordPerfect, Lotus and dBase. You want difficult, try using Tandy Xenix with Scripsit, Multiplan and filePro16+ What was so difficult about that? I did it the first time on a prototype machine and then later on production machines. We had secretaries using Scripsit and budget analysts using Multiplan all the time. I always preferred Multiplan to Visicalc. bill
[cctalk] Re: VCF and System Source Computer Museum swap meet this weekend
On 7/19/2023 11:23 AM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote: Hi, I am curious if anyone here might be planning on attending. https://museum.syssrc.com/artifact/events/3000/ I am heading up there with friends Friday night so we can get there early Saturday. Bringing some stuff to sell, nothing too crazy just odds and ends. PICMG Pentium rackmount machine and odds and ends for micros. Only system on my "to get" list is Acorn Archemedies. Looking forward to it, and I think System Source might be the #1 collection in the world. Very cool place. Say hi if you see me and are on this list. All this chatter has made me interested in maybe making the drive (a bit over 3 hours). What time does it start on Saturday? How would we know each other? :-) bill
[cctalk] OT: Ham Radio
I know this is off topic, but I think there are a number of hams here. Looking to get back into it but have some questions. Now that the a**holes have completely trashed all the USENET ham radio groups where do hams go for the kinds of discussions that used to be there? bill
[cctalk] Is the list broken again?
I doubt this will go thru either but other attempts to send to the list are now getting rejected as SPAM. Doesn't the list check addresses to see if the poster is a member? bill
[cctalk] Re: Need AUI cable
On 6/28/2023 8:23 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: Meanwhile, on AUI cables: the difficulty with plugging a transceiver into the Pro is that the Pro uses regular nuts, for a plug that secures by screws. That's non-standard, since the AUI spec calls for the "turret" and sliding latch type. So a standard AUI cable wouldn't be a real cure because you'd still have that mismatch. Yup, it's a DEC thing, however the DEQNA cab kits do the proper cam and lock interface. I thought about removing the nuts, but went with ordering a cable and I'll pull the studs off it to make it work. Sub optimal but that is DEC (also I remember AUI cables did come with screws so other vendors did this in the early days as well) Not necessarily a DEC thing. TEMPEST PC's (and other TEMPEST boxes like fiber ethernet transceivers) also had screw connectors rather than the spring clip ones. bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/27/2023 8:44 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: More interesting is that All-In-One for the VAX comes on RX02 and RL02 disks. I wasn't aware that the VAX or VMS even supported RX or RL disks. Sure. The 8600 and 11/730 used an RL02 as the boot/startup media. Don't know the 8600. Wasn't the RL02 on the 11/730 actually connected to a PDP-11 that functioned as a console? Surely no version of VMS ever fit on a 10M disk, did it? RX02 is a bit odd, but I could see that being supported on a Unibus adapter which existed for the big systems and the BI systems. But the question would have been why? :-) Maybe the 11/730 was the entry level All in One, at least before Microvax became popular Maybe, but can you see a small office running an 11/730 just to get those particular apps? :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/27/2023 7:26 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote: On 27/06/2023 21:17, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote: > Different thing, I believe. Gotcha. I'd find it funny and perfectly fitting if DEC had two departments working on the same concept and coming up with completely different, but equally oddball solution Like the VAX 6000 and the VAX 9000 :-) Having competing teams wasn't unusual in DEC, at least for a portion of its history. Reading about the two different versions was interesting. The PDP-11 version comes complete with a version of Micro-RSX making it basically a turnkey system. More interesting is that All-In-One for the VAX comes on RX02 and RL02 disks. I wasn't aware that the VAX or VMS even supported RX or RL disks. bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/26/2023 10:07 AM, Paul Koning wrote: On Jun 26, 2023, at 7:16 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 6/25/2023 8:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/25/23 16:59, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I have 3" and 1800 pages of possible PDP-11 applications. Trying to guess what application created those files is likely to be a study in frustration. Does the "customer" have no idea what programs they ran under RSX-11 that might have created those files? The "customer" no longer inhabits this vale of tears. Was there an application called A2Z? Just probing around in the files. Actually, there was. It was a DEC product and ran on MicroRSX. It consisted of a number of packages and was a complete business operations system. bill On RSTS, also, I think. Some vague memory says that it was a trimmed-down variant of "ALL-IN-ONE". The Software Sourcebook list only MicroRSX as the OS supporting the various pieces of A-to-Z. There is no listing for anything called A2Z. bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/25/2023 8:26 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/25/23 16:59, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I have 3" and 1800 pages of possible PDP-11 applications. Trying to guess what application created those files is likely to be a study in frustration. Does the "customer" have no idea what programs they ran under RSX-11 that might have created those files? The "customer" no longer inhabits this vale of tears. Was there an application called A2Z? Just probing around in the files. Actually, there was. It was a DEC product and ran on MicroRSX. It consisted of a number of packages and was a complete business operations system. bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/25/2023 3:44 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: The file list says they were created in the 1986 time frame. So what Dec systems were running around then that required rsx11 ? See my previous response. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/25/2023 3:39 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote: Pretty hard to tell from just the file names what app created them and looking for (for example) .msl files sends you down different paths, like visual studio ( probably not), ImageMagick Scripting Language File, MAINSAIL Source Code, and ProWORX Nxt MSL are all apps that create .msl Any more info you can shed on what the industry is that the customer does? Is it geographic mapping or some kind of science processing? I have 3" and 1800 pages of possible PDP-11 applications. Trying to guess what application created those files is likely to be a study in frustration. Does the "customer" have no idea what programs they ran under RSX-11 that might have created those files? bill
[cctalk] Re: Any RSX-11 fans able to identify file types?
On 6/24/2023 7:39 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/24/23 12:38, Wayne S wrote: Chuck, why not post the catalog snd we’ll all take a look? Power of the internet! Okay, I guess that's okay. Here's the data from the MFD: https://icedrive.net/s/Q56ZY2Sv4g62Gi9vZ9jzNQ2CD6Bu Since this is customer data, I can't publish the contents of the files themselves. Does anyone recognize this stuff? With the exception of CMD and TMP those are not RSX files at all. You would need to read documentation on the application that created them to find out what they actually are. bill
[cctalk] Re: How much memory?
On 6/17/2023 10:42 AM, Henry Bent via cctalk wrote: On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 at 10:31, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: BSD 2.11 had TCP/IP. Later versions of 2.9BSD had TCP/IP though the hardware support was pretty limited. And you could probably use the present tense for 2.11BSD, it's still getting patches. Ultrix-11, which was DEC version of Version 7 had TCP/IP. I use it all the time. bill
[cctalk] Re: How much memory?
On 6/16/2023 3:51 PM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: On Jun 16, 2023, at 3:40 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/16/23 12:02, ben via cctalk wrote: Ken , Jobs and Wozniak need their fair share. Graphics and file system buffers take up more space than you expect. I just transferred a DC150 tar tape. Total (uncompressed) file size was 11MB. What was on it? The complete source to Linux 1.0. Somewhat earlier, the complete source for the RSTS-11 timesharing system fit on 5 DECtapes, 1.5 MB. And that was assembly language, exhaustively commented. Wish I had a copy of that!! bill
[cctalk] Re: Super I/O chips
Has anyone ever looked at using the P112 to read and write these classic format floppies? I understand it can do 8" CPM floppies so that would imply the controller has all the needed modes. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/5/2023 4:33 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-05 2:06 p.m., Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 5/5/2023 1:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben. Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) bill REAL BDS'S COME ON MAGNETIC TAPE. BEN @ 110 BAUD. I used to have a BSD Distro. I think it was actually two tapes. But I also think I lost it during one of my moves. I do still have a 9-track drive to read one if I ever have to, though. :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/5/2023 1:44 PM, ben via cctalk wrote: On 2023-05-04 2:31 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: True but I don't miss 53K bps analog POTS modem speeds. My Internet varies between 700Mbps and 950Mbps. I don't miss analog modem days in the least. There is no nostalgia there. How ever the people still use them. Fast internet is only good about 1? km from the router. Other than Netflix or Multiplayer games, what is really high speed internet needed for? Ben. Downloading the latest FreeBSD ISO in less than a week? :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/4/2023 1:41 PM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: Unfortunately my local ISP doesn't run a server any more. :( Doesn't have to be local. I use a server in Berlin. Back in the 80's I used to run the USENET (and UUCP) gateway for Finland. I used to run a server at the University where I worked. Used to score very high in ratings. Had a satellite feed as well as the terrestrial ones and moved a lot of news in my time. Those were good times. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/4/2023 10:35 AM, Johan Helsingius via cctalk wrote: On 04/05/2023 14:59, geneb via cctalk wrote: FidoNet is still a thing too. So is USENET. Julf I was going to jump in and say this but you beat me to it. I am involved in stuff on USENET all the time. Many groups have been destroyed and are pretty much useless but many of them are still going strong. bill
[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web
On 5/3/2023 7:58 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: 30 years ago the World Wide Web came into public existence. It has enabled cctalk to flourish. What did the World Wide Web have to do with mailing lists flourishing? We had text based discussions long before that in the form of Usenet and Mailing lists. bill
[cctalk] Re: 3D Printing
Thanks Dennis and Gene. That did the trick. I tried to do that but it seemed all I changed was view but with your suggestions I found the right button and am printing one of the odd pieces right now. Finally I can have enclosures for all these boards I run just sitting on top of the desk. bill
[cctalk] 3D Printing
Are there any 3D printing experts hanging around here? I need help. I want to print things like a bracket to mount my FreHD in a disk bay. Some other things, too. The problem is the STL file wants to print these items vertically instead of laying flat on the table. Needless to say by the time it gets to the part where it wants to print the faceplate the object is unstable or, in some cases, completely tipped over. Is there any way to change the orientation of an object on the table using just the STL file? I have a Creality Ender 3 printer and their slicer software. bill
[cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial
On 4/7/2023 1:39 PM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet. And I found > a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. It does have ethernet. They dropped the HDMI output. But the main advantage is price, so if you already found a deal, win. Claimed as new. Less than $40 each. Half of what places like Mouser are asking. And, I saw at least one place asking $120 for one. bill
[cctalk] Re: Beaglebone Black Industrial
On 4/7/2023 10:55 AM, Dennis Boone via cctalk wrote: > Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same > as the regular Beaglebone Black? I have a couple of the MFM Emulator > boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. They're supposed to be the same except with expanded operating temperature range. You know the Greens work for the MFMemu, right? Yes, but I am pretty sure it doesn't have the ethernet. And I found a bargain on the Beaglebone Black Industrial. bill
[cctalk] Beaglebone Black Industrial
Does anyone here know if the Beaglebone Black Industrial is he same as the regular Beaglebone Black? I have a couple of the MFM Emulator boards to build and will need a couple Beaglebones for them. bill
