[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi Marc !

It should be so great if it was just the PSU, everything else is hyper 
overkill in terms of complexity but on the multimeter all the voltages 
show the correct values, including +15V and -15V (generated from the 
+24V and -24V of the power supply).
But is it possible that one of these currents, for example the 
stabalized +5V  is 'parasitized' ? How can it be diagnosed? With an 
oscilloscope I suppose?


The interesting thing now is the lack of emergency retraction of the 
heads if the power is cut during RUN mode. There is an unfuse +24V 
provided for this purpose but it is present in the power supply. If that 
problem is common to the others issues, this leads me to think that 
there is an issue at the logical level, in this case the breakdown 
hypotheses are unfortunately infinite (summing junction on SO board, 
servo positioner, SR board, sensors, ...). If it's not common, it should 
be a dead capacitor concerning the emergency retraction of the heads, 
and a dead amplifier transistor on the heat sink board dedicated to the 
plus/minus (forward/reverse) servo positioner, who knows ?


Dominique


On 2/05/2024 01:38, Curious Marc wrote:

Power supply problem?
Marc


On Apr 30, 2024, at 8:58 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
 wrote:

Hello everyone

I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I don't 
know where to look, it's so vast !

Here's the problem:
When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously deploys the heads (normal) 
but instead of stabilizing them, the Head Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro 
signals. The heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency 
"BRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded and the drive never 
reaches READY.

At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or 
something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive unloads 
the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they continue to 
reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode.
Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a priori 
excludes alignment problems.

Here is a video of that issue:

https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg

Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, it does 
not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem?
I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even on the 
main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter).

If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head 
stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive?

Thanks !

Dominique

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

I also thought about it first, but in the documentation it is clearly 
explained that during the startup sequence, the deployment of the heads 
is done at the same time as the spin up, during this deployment the 
heads are raised, they are normally loaded on disc only after one minute 
+- after the brush cycle, after the nominal speed is reached.


On 30/04/2024 21:38, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 4/30/24 12:37, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Thanks for your response Jon :!

The technical documentation is available on Bitsavers here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/diablo/disk/model_40/81603_Diablo4xMaint_Apr75.pdf 



But also here:
https://www.wang2200.org/docs/external/DiabloSeries40DiskDriveFieldLevelMaintenanceGuide.03-0057.pdf 



I thought like you about the sensors, but here the reverse/forward 
movements even after unloading the heads lead me to think that the 
issue is at the level of the circuitry involved in the control of the 
head positionner linear motor.
I would like to be able to follow the diagrams easily, but it is 
incredibly complex.


The only good news is that it is perhaps easily identifiable for 
those who specifically know the Diablo model 40 series disc drives, 
in the video we can observe very briefly that these reverse/forward 
movements start as soon as I press RUN, even before the machine 
begins to deploy the heads. Precisely here:


https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg?t=4

We could deduce that this is a problem at the very base of what 
balances the voltages for controlling the linear motor.But even in 
this case, my limited skills do not allow me to direct my research, 
which is why I need some advice ;)


On 30/04/2024 19:05, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 4/30/24 10:46, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hello everyone

I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. 
I don't know where to look, it's so vast !


Here's the problem:
When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and 
simultaneously deploys the heads (normal) but instead of 
stabilizing them, the Head Positioner receives a burst of 
reverse/forward micro signals. The heads "vibrate", this creates an 
audible frequency "BRR", and it is infinite, the 
heads are never loaded and the drive never reaches READY.


At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective 
or something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the 
drive unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, 
here they continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN 
mode.
Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, 
this a priori excludes alignment problems.


Well, I don't know this particular drive, but I can think of a few 
things to check.  Presumably, this drive has some sort of velocity 
sensor, either part of the voice coil assembly or the head motion 
motor.  It is possible that the velocity sensor has gone bad, or 
that a wire to the sensor has broken.


OK, without looking at the docs, generally these types of drives have 
a linear amplifier that takes a velocity command from some control 
logic and a velocity feedback signal from a sensor.  When the run 
switch is turned on, the servo amp might be enabled, and then the amp 
gets a zero velocity command.  When the disc is up to speed, the 
velocity command is set so that the heads load onto the pack, and then 
track counting logic moves the heads to the desired track.  With the 
heads advancing as SOON as the run switch is flipped on, then it seems 
like the command to the amp is happening at the wrong time.  It seems 
pretty clear the velocity servo is working properly, as the motion 
looks very smooth.  But, the heads move toward the pack, and then some 
kind of safety circuit must be tripping as the pack is not up to speed 
yet.


This will take some careful debugging.

Jon

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi Don !

Good suggestion, these microswitches are used to indicate that the heads 
are completely retracted.
Unfortunately, that would have been too simple, both microswitches work 
perfectly :-/


On 30/04/2024 19:43, D. Resor wrote:
What is the purpose of the two microswitches seen in the upper right 
of the video view?


Could one or both of those be intermittent? Have they been tested for 
continuity/intermittence with an analog VOM?


Don Resor

-Original Message-
From: Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2024 8:47 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 


Cc: Dominique Carlier 
Subject: [cctalk] Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

Hello everyone

I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I 
don't know where to look, it's so vast !


Here's the problem:
When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously 
deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head 
Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The 
heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency 
"BRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded 
and the drive never reaches READY.


At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or 
something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive 
unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they 
continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode.
Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a 
priori excludes alignment problems.


Here is a video of that issue:

https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg

Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, 
it does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem?
I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even 
on the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter).


If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head 
stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive?


Thanks !

Dominique

[cctalk] Re: Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Thanks for your response Jon :!

The technical documentation is available on Bitsavers here:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/diablo/disk/model_40/81603_Diablo4xMaint_Apr75.pdf

But also here:
https://www.wang2200.org/docs/external/DiabloSeries40DiskDriveFieldLevelMaintenanceGuide.03-0057.pdf

I thought like you about the sensors, but here the reverse/forward 
movements even after unloading the heads lead me to think that the issue 
is at the level of the circuitry involved in the control of the head 
positionner linear motor.
I would like to be able to follow the diagrams easily, but it is 
incredibly complex.


The only good news is that it is perhaps easily identifiable for those 
who specifically know the Diablo model 40 series disc drives, in the 
video we can observe very briefly that these reverse/forward movements 
start as soon as I press RUN, even before the machine begins to deploy 
the heads. Precisely here:


https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg?t=4

We could deduce that this is a problem at the very base of what balances 
the voltages for controlling the linear motor.But even in this case, my 
limited skills do not allow me to direct my research, which is why I 
need some advice ;)


On 30/04/2024 19:05, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:

On 4/30/24 10:46, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hello everyone

I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I 
don't know where to look, it's so vast !


Here's the problem:
When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and 
simultaneously deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing 
them, the Head Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro 
signals. The heads "vibrate", this creates an audible frequency 
"BRR", and it is infinite, the heads are never loaded 
and the drive never reaches READY.


At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective 
or something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the 
drive unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here 
they continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode.
Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this 
a priori excludes alignment problems.


Well, I don't know this particular drive, but I can think of a few 
things to check.  Presumably, this drive has some sort of velocity 
sensor, either part of the voice coil assembly or the head motion 
motor.  It is possible that the velocity sensor has gone bad, or that 
a wire to the sensor has broken.


Another possibility is that the track position encoder has gone bad.  
They often are quadrature optical encoders, and possibly a light bulb 
has failed or a photodiode has gone bad or has a broken wire or bad 
sensor conditioning circuit.


If you have drawings for this drive, it should be easy to follow this 
circuit.  If not, then you will have to find drawings and tech info.  
Hopefully, bitsavers has what you need.


Jon

[cctalk] Diablo Model 40 Series - Disturbed head positioning

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hello everyone

I need your help to identify an issue on my Diablo Model 40 Series. I 
don't know where to look, it's so vast !


Here's the problem:
When RUN is activated, the drive begins its spin up and simultaneously 
deploys the heads (normal) but instead of stabilizing them, the Head 
Positioner receives a burst of reverse/forward micro signals. The heads 
"vibrate", this creates an audible frequency "BRR", and 
it is infinite, the heads are never loaded and the drive never reaches 
READY.


At first I thought that perhaps the track zero sensor was defective or 
something of the same order but when I disengage RUN mode, the drive 
unloads the heads and they should be in a fixed position, here they 
continue to reverse/forward but more slowly than in RUN mode.
Because the heads continues to mess around even in unload mode, this a 
priori excludes alignment problems.


Here is a video of that issue:

https://youtu.be/HzzxLnSdEOg

Other information, if I cut the power while the drive is in RUN mode, it 
does not do an emergency retraction of the heads, related problem?
I was hoping for a power supply problem but all the voltages and even on 
the main board cage seem ok (with a multimeter).


If one of you had already encountered this problem of lack of head 
stabilization and continuous reverse/forward on this type of drive?


Thanks !

Dominique

[cctalk] Re: Data General Nova and Eclipse Hobbyist License...

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi Bruce

This is Wonderful ! Many thanks !

Dominique

On 25/10/2022 00:26, Bruce Ray via cctalk wrote:


Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc., is pleased to announce that a
"Hobbyist License" is now available for legacy Data General
Nova and Eclipse software.  This license allows educational, hobbyist,
non-commercial use of the vast amount of DG software - software
that changed the world in many ways.

The initial archives are currently available at:

www.NovasAreForever.org/dgsw

and includes documentation for the corresponding software.


This October announcement also honors the 54th anniversary of the 
original
Data General Nova. An international celebration of the Nova's 50th 
anniversary was
hosted by Wild Computer Systems in Colorado, USA.  Some of the 
festivities

can be seen at:

www.Nova-At-50.org

and

www.Nova-At-50.org/album/index.html


To complement this Hobbyist License, a Nova and Eclipse emulator that 
can run all of the

software will be introduced later this week.


Wild Hare Computer Systems is dedicated to preserving Data General's
significant contributions to computer history.  We seek DG hardware, 
software, documentation,

sales literature - basically "anything DG" - that can be added to the
archives for posterity.



Bruce Ray
Wild Hare Computer Systems, Inc.
Denver, Colorado USA
b...@wildharecomputers.com

...preserving the Data General legacy: www.NovasAreForever.org

www.WildHareComputers.com

www.NovasAreForever.org

Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

d...@skynet.be

Thanks !

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 11:21, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:

Hello Dominique
If you send me your e-mail address, I can start with sending you the 
user manual, so you can what the software does
This software has an interface to i-telex.net, so you can use it for 
international chats
It also has a lot of other functions, but it would take too long to 
list it all here

Regards
Nico (OZ1BMC), formerly PTT telegraph operator

On 2021-12-09 11:14, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Oh great ! But a little bit noisy to use like that ;)
Well, I'm interested by your software anyway !

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 11:00, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:

Dominique,
Well, that is in principle very easy.
You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 
to 50 BPS serial.  Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could 
also look at www.i-telex.net. This is a (primarily) german "band of 
brothers". They have set up an international of teleprinter users, 
so they can communicate through internet. Nice system, can recommend 
it.
If you have (or get) a special interest in teleprinters, I have the 
software for a teleprinter exchange, also interfacing to i-telex.net
In this way, you can have a complete telegraph office in your living 
room (more likely : a garage)

73, Nico

On 2021-12-08 21:29, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which 
only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required 
to send text in this monster through a computer

Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80

Dominique

On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 
data bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to 
right on the punch (left side).


DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't 
remember those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape 
machines I have seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from 
early tape operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 
1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.


paul


On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz  wrote:

I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper 
tape is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character 
codes except for DECs upper case only character set and even 
their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.


On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be 
typesetting codes.


That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on 
Dutch Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" 
symbol, the figures shift character on the D key. But some of 
the other function codes have different labels so it isn't 
actually the same model.


The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also 
that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
than as non-printing fill.


paul

Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Oh great ! But a little bit noisy to use like that ;)
Well, I'm interested by your software anyway !

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 11:00, nico de jong via cctalk wrote:

Dominique,
Well, that is in principle very easy.
You need a COM port (or simulator) and a little box converting RS232 
to 50 BPS serial.  Diagrams can be found everywhere. But you could 
also look at www.i-telex.net. This is a (primarily) german "band of 
brothers". They have set up an international of teleprinter users, so 
they can communicate through internet. Nice system, can recommend it.
If you have (or get) a special interest in teleprinters, I have the 
software for a teleprinter exchange, also interfacing to i-telex.net
In this way, you can have a complete telegraph office in your living 
room (more likely : a garage)

73, Nico

On 2021-12-08 21:29, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only 
works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send 
text in this monster through a computer

Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80

Dominique

On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
the punch (left side).


DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember 
those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have 
seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape 
operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era 
phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.


paul


On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz  wrote:

I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.


On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
codes.


That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, 
the figures shift character on the D key. But some of the other 
function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same 
model.


The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also 
that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
than as non-printing fill.


paul

Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Thanks Marc for these information.  I will go study this from your link ;)

Dominique

On 9/12/2021 00:21, Curious Marc wrote:

Dominique,
Nice to see your machine working so well! I like how it lights up from 
the inside. To connect it to a computer, you could simply get a Volpe 
board that does the Baudot 60 mA loop to ASCII RS 232 conversion for 
you, or build one yourself like I did. Info on both here: 
https://www.curiousmarc.com/mechanical/teletype-model-19#h.p_2ltO4LwPtuZR

Matc

On Dec 8, 2021, at 12:29 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
 wrote:


The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which 
only works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to 
send text in this monster through a computer

Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80

Dominique

On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data 
bits -- top to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on 
the punch (left side).


DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember 
those appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have 
seen with 6 channels are typesetting devices, from early tape 
operated Linotype machines (1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era 
phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower case.


   paul


On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz  wrote:

I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape 
is 6 bits across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes 
except for DECs upper case only character set and even their paper 
tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.


On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting 
codes.


That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch 
Electrologica X8 computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, 
the figures shift character on the D key.  But some of the other 
function codes have different labels so it isn't actually the same 
model.


The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, 
a.k.a., Baudot, code but with the bit order reversed.  And also 
that it used the all-zeroes code as a printable character rather 
than as non-printing fill.


   paul

Re: Siemens T100 Terminal with Paper Tape - Available

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

The subject interests me because I have the same beast but which only 
works in local mode. I currently don't know what is required to send 
text in this monster through a computer

Below is a link to a video of my machine in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dL-XU855C80

Dominique

On 8/12/2021 20:52, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:

No, it's 5 bit tape.  2 data bits, transport sprocket holes, 3 data bits -- top 
to bottom on the reader (right side), left to right on the punch (left side).

DEC PDP-10 systems used six bit code internally but I don't remember those 
appearing on punched tape.  The punched tape machines I have seen with 6 
channels are typesetting devices, from early tape operated Linotype machines 
(1940s vintage) to 1960s or 1970s era phototypesetters.  Those are upper/lower 
case.

paul


On Dec 8, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Mike Katz  wrote:

I thought I had recalled that Baudot was 5 bits but the paper tape is 6 bits 
across and I don't know of any 6 bit character codes except for DECs upper case 
only character set and even their paper tape had 8 bits so I guessed Baudot.

On 12/8/2021 1:16 PM, Paul Koning wrote:

5 bit; if it really were 6 bits it would typically be typesetting codes.

That's a relative of the machine used as console terminal on Dutch Electrologica X8 
computers; I recognize the "Iron cross" symbol, the figures shift character on 
the D key.  But some of the other function codes have different labels so it isn't 
actually the same model.

The description I have says that the X8 console used CCITT-2, a.k.a., Baudot, 
code but with the bit order reversed.  And also that it used the all-zeroes 
code as a printable character rather than as non-printing fill.

paul

Re: Entrex 480 / Digital Computer Controls 116 in New Jersey.

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Oh 

Wow, I'm precisely rebooting (well trying to reboot), my DCC-116E, core 
memory problem, and maybe the diablo 44b is messing around.


http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3thboot_01.jpg

http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3thboot_02.jpg

http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3thboot_03.jpg

http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3thboot_04.jpg

If I was not in another continent, I would rush to this material :-/

Dominique


On 8/07/2020 18:28, Mattis Lind via cctalk wrote:

I just happen to see this auction:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/86804138_entrex-480-vintage-computer-electronics-lot

Looks like three systems. One marked Entrex 480 the others look like the DG
Nova clone DCC 116. On top there seems to be a Diablo printer of some sort.
Some rust, indeed.

In New Jersey.

Then there another auction for several Diablo drives at the same location:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/86804145_sweda-750-computers-and-vintage-electronics

Also a stack of DG like cards and a core memory board, likely DG or DCC.

Not in best condition but probably worth rescuing. Maybe someone in NJ area
that want it?

/Mattis

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

x 480 systems here:

http://Entrex480.com

Like your system restoration, it is a work in progress...

Best always,
AJ



    On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Dominique Carlier via cctalk
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:

I understand very well your concerns about sending by
mail rare data on
magnetic media. It's a pity that I live so far away (in
Belgium), even
if I have not finished to configure my machines, at the
end I should be
able to write anything on any media, and concerning
magnetic tapes it
will be from 500 to 6250 bpi.

If one day you find in your stock a communication board
for Nova 1200
that you do not use please note that I am a potential buyer.

In the meantime, I have to find solutions to reopen all
my old monsters
to the outside world ;-)

Dominique

On 16/01/2018 15:19, Jay West via cctalk wrote:
> The 'other Jay' wrote...
> --
> Diagnostics for DG systems are notoriously difficult to
find.  I have a few, in listing format.
> --
> I have a full official DG-issued/labeled original
diagnostic OS tape. I do believe it is at 800bpi though.
If I had an 800 bpi drive (everything I have is
1600-6250) I'd image it for everyone.
>
> I have a nice S/130 rack that I was almost finished
restoring till Bruce Ray stopped responding. It's been
sitting in my workshop for years now and I may have to
just get rid of it. Next to it is a pile of about 8 nova
800/1200 cpus (all stuffed with boards) that I was going
to start on next, but was waiting till the S/130 was
done. I'd like to get done with them so I can move on to
other machines that need to be restored... but may have
to just move them out altogether.
>
> I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for
imaging maybe I can find someone local with an 800
bpi tape drive and eric smith's tapeutils.
>
> J
>
>
>



-- 


Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/






-- 


Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/




--

Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hello AJ

Thank you for your interest in my project ;-)

Unfortunately I was stopped by some technical problems.

As I was studying ways to create bootable tapes for my DCC-166 when it 
started to present troubles.


It started with illegible characters (like a bad charset) on the only 
operational terminal I have. Despite this he continued to boot from the 
Diablo 44.
Then I tried to reinstall from a bootable tape with DIDOS, the operating 
system of Nixdorf, and there it does not work anymore.


Is it because the terminal is not properly working? Is it because there 
is a problem with the nine track tape? Is the disc of my Diablo 44 
altered? Is it all problems are from a PSU problem? I do not know.
I cleaned the tape drive, the disk platter, the heads, I clean all 
connectors (boards), checked what I could at the level of power supply. 
I still have not found the cause of the breakdown(s).


I have not had the time yet but I am going to create a new topic on 
cctalk about this, unfortunately, I already feel that this 
troubleshooting will require knowledge beyond my skills.


Well, we'll see ;-)

Dominique


On 25/09/2018 08:01, AJ Palmgren wrote:

Dominique,

Might you have any updates on your Nixdorf 620 / Entrex 480 system?  I 
am quite interested, and it's been a while since I've seen any email 
with these keywords here, from you or anyone.


Someday, it is my hope that I might take a tour of your system in 
Belgium, on my next trip to the region, if you would be open to this.  
I am quite fascinated by this rare dinosaur of a system.


I have begun to archive your work, and everything else I've ever found 
about the Entrex 480 systems here:


http://Entrex480.com

Like your system restoration, it is a work in progress...

Best always,
AJ



On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 9:52 AM Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


I understand very well your concerns about sending by mail rare
data on
magnetic media. It's a pity that I live so far away (in Belgium),
even
if I have not finished to configure my machines, at the end I
should be
able to write anything on any media, and concerning magnetic tapes it
will be from 500 to 6250 bpi.

If one day you find in your stock a communication board for Nova 1200
that you do not use please note that I am a potential buyer.

In the meantime, I have to find solutions to reopen all my old
monsters
to the outside world ;-)

Dominique

On 16/01/2018 15:19, Jay West via cctalk wrote:
> The 'other Jay' wrote...
> --
> Diagnostics for DG systems are notoriously difficult to find.  I
have a few, in listing format.
> --
> I have a full official DG-issued/labeled original diagnostic OS
tape. I do believe it is at 800bpi though. If I had an 800 bpi
drive (everything I have is 1600-6250) I'd image it for everyone.
>
> I have a nice S/130 rack that I was almost finished restoring
till Bruce Ray stopped responding. It's been sitting in my
workshop for years now and I may have to just get rid of it. Next
to it is a pile of about 8 nova 800/1200 cpus (all stuffed with
boards) that I was going to start on next, but was waiting till
the S/130 was done. I'd like to get done with them so I can move
on to other machines that need to be restored... but may have to
just move them out altogether.
>
> I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for
imaging maybe I can find someone local with an 800 bpi tape
drive and eric smith's tapeutils.
>
> J
>
>
>



--

Thanks,
AJ Palmgren
http://fb.me/SelmaTrainWreck
http://SelmaTrainWreck.blogspot.com
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100010931314283
https://www.linkedin.com/in/aj-palmgren-4a085516/

Re: old DEC stuff

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

On 30/05/2018 18:52, Jay West wrote:

Dominique wrote:
$75 for one toggle switch ? $9,999.00 for a rusty PDP8L ?

hem ... No
-
Mitch Miller is a really good guy, and very "collector friendly".
He still sells to a lot of business clients, and those are the prices he can 
get for those in that market.

However, if you call or email him - let him know you are a collector - you'll 
find him willing to work with you.
OK, I understand a little better. However, just a question, which kind 
of business clients wants a very rusty PDP8L for $9,999 ?
Sorry, I'm sure this person is very friendly and I don't want to discuss 
about his business finally. I just regret this incredible rise in prices 
for collector machines that, not so long ago, were languishing in wet 
sheds, probably like this PDP8.
Anyway, this is an endless debate in which I don't want to enter. I'm 
happy to have been able to recover the big part of my machines before 
they cost the price of a kidney.

Re: old DEC stuff

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

$75 for one toggle switch ? $9,999.00 for a rusty PDP8L ?

hem ... No


On 30/05/2018 17:32, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote:

On 5/30/2018 10:23 AM, Electronics Plus via cctalk wrote:

If they are still around, this guy had a lot of old DEC stuff.

Not affiliated with seller, etc.


Mitch Miller

| Phone (937) 847-2300 / Fax (937) 847-2350 (Old area code was 513)

|

| Keyways, Inc.

| 204 S. Third St.

| Miamisburg, Ohio 45342 USA

|

| E-mail: mil...@keyways.com

| Web: http://www.keyways.com

| Stock List: http://www.keyways.com/stock.html



Cindy Croxton



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




They are still quite active. Both as a brick and mortar storefront (or 
warehouse) and as an online seller 

Re: Sold on eBay: Convergent Technologies S/50 a.k.a. Unix PC, AT 3B1 Unix Workstation

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

You're right, the machine I owned is the one I see from your link. The 
workstation you mentioned is in the same box but with a monitor and the 
location of the clips and led slightly different.
But I was not far ;-) I don't remember what kind of hardware was exactly 
in this machine. Shame on me, I got rid of it, it was the pre-internet 
era, I had no hope to repair and reinstall this machine, it would be 
different today: - /



On 17/01/2018 20:02, Alan Perry via cctech wrote:

Are you sure?

The B20, B21, B22 looked like this - 
http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102662660 - and 
nothing like the 3B1 or the S/50. The B25 and subsequent models (which 
are often referred to as B20s) are modular systems that are box-shaped 
and got wider as "slices" were added. The B20s were x86-based and the 
3B1 (and presumably the CT S/50) was 68k-based.


alan


On 1/17/18 2:41 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctech wrote:
It's interesting, I had exactly the same machine a long time ago, but 
with a different label. It was a Burroughs B20 distributed by Unisys


Dominique

On 17/01/2018 06:45, AJ Palmgren via cctalk wrote:

Did it happen to be one of these older-style Convergent AWS machines?

http://mightyframe.blogspot.com/2017/03/convergent-technologies-workstation.html 

Re: Sold on eBay: Convergent Technologies S/50 a.k.a. Unix PC, AT 3B1 Unix Workstation

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

It's interesting, I had exactly the same machine a long time ago, but 
with a different label. It was a Burroughs B20 distributed by Unisys


Dominique

On 17/01/2018 06:45, AJ Palmgren via cctalk wrote:

Did it happen to be one of these older-style Convergent AWS machines?

http://mightyframe.blogspot.com/2017/03/convergent-technologies-workstation.html

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

I understand very well your concerns about sending by mail rare data on 
magnetic media. It's a pity that I live so far away (in Belgium), even 
if I have not finished to configure my machines, at the end I should be 
able to write anything on any media, and concerning magnetic tapes it 
will be from 500 to 6250 bpi.


If one day you find in your stock a communication board for Nova 1200 
that you do not use please note that I am a potential buyer.


In the meantime, I have to find solutions to reopen all my old monsters 
to the outside world ;-)


Dominique

On 16/01/2018 15:19, Jay West via cctalk wrote:

The 'other Jay' wrote...
--
Diagnostics for DG systems are notoriously difficult to find.  I have a few, in 
listing format.
--
I have a full official DG-issued/labeled original diagnostic OS tape. I do 
believe it is at 800bpi though. If I had an 800 bpi drive (everything I have is 
1600-6250) I'd image it for everyone.

I have a nice S/130 rack that I was almost finished restoring till Bruce Ray 
stopped responding. It's been sitting in my workshop for years now and I may 
have to just get rid of it. Next to it is a pile of about 8 nova 800/1200 cpus 
(all stuffed with boards) that I was going to start on next, but was waiting 
till the S/130 was done. I'd like to get done with them so I can move on to 
other machines that need to be restored... but may have to just move them out 
altogether.

I'm wary of just sending the tape through the mail for imaging maybe I can 
find someone local with an 800 bpi tape drive and eric smith's tapeutils.

J

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hello Jay (JRJ),

I'm not sure if I understand well, what do you mean by "drawings", do 
you need additional images of the beast, maybe to better identify it ?

If yes :
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/d116_panel_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/d116_panel_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/d116_panel_side.jpg

Regarding SimH it was one of my questions in previous posts: Is there 
way to make bootable tapes with the data provided with SimH, apparently 
the answer is yes and it is excellent news ! I have never used this 
emulator but I will follow your suggestions and try to install the 
equivalent of a Nova 1200.
After I do not know how to convert a disk image into a bootable tape. 
Regarding RDOS I see that I downloaded with SimH a file "rdos_d31.dsk", 
how to proceed to put this .dsk on a tape?
Regarding my hardware, I have two possibilities, I'm currently working 
on a set of machines that I'm going to dedicate to the production of 
bootable media for a whole assortment of machines, I want to be able to 
generate floppies 8 inches, 5 1/4, 3 1/2 (DD or HD), and also 9 track tapes.


For that I have two machines:
- One is a TU81 Plus attached to a VAX 4000-505A running OpenVMS 6.2
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/tu81plus.jpg

- The other is a Shugart (KENNEDY) 9612 which can write in 800, 1600, 
3200 or 6250 bpi, this tape drive is equipped with a SCSI interface but 
I do not know yet if I can connect this drive to a conventional Adaptec 
scsi interface and I do not know which program I can use. I read 
somewhere that Linux seems a good choice concerning the support of old 
tape drive, that'is right ?

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/kennedy_9612.jpg

Anyway, all is to make a 800 bpi bootable tape to mount on the Mag-tape 
Pertec 8840A of my DCC D-116(E).


Regarding the floppy drive I have a project but just started, and as 
usual no information, I recovered this triple 8 inches diskette drive , 
it is a Shugart Model 3800 (or SA3800)


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/shugartSA3800_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/shugartSA3800_02.jpg
I found a brochure about this:
http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/shugart/brochures/Shugart_SA3800_Brochure_Feb78.pdf

I do not know if there is a way to connect this machine to my D-116, I 
don't know if I have the required interface in the D-116, and finally I 
don't know anything about the interface currently present inside the 
SA3800. This machine was hooked to another rare machine, a "Hermes Data 
System 200 FD", machine currently down, and no doc, no info:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/tapetransfert/hermes_data_system_200_fd.jpg

I wanted to use the Hermes as a telex and one of these floppy drive - 
Although it's an SD one - for data transfer between my recent machines 
and my dear (still dead) Sperry Univac UTS 40, but that's another topic 
again, sorry, I'm scattering ;-)


FYI I still have many lacks of knowledge, I do not know what an AWS 
image format. I do not know anything about licensing and copywrite 
issues in the context of retro-computer preservation, I've always found 
that very inappropriate in regard of the efforts we make, the time we 
take on our lives to protect this legacy for the unique purpose of 
preserving a piece of history related to the evolution of technology.
Fortunately there are people like you, in a good spirit of mutual help 
that goes beyond the borders of countries and continents,  a big thank 
you for that!


Dominique


On 16/01/2018 02:16, Jay Jaeger via cctalk wrote:

On 10/4/2017 3:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctech wrote:

Hi all

I start here another topic concerning my research about a new Operating
System for my freshly restored DCC-116 E.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/02.jpg

I originally intended to install RDOS on my machine but it seems very
difficult to find the files needed to make a system installation tape.


FIRST:  If you have drawings for the DCC, please let me know.  I have
two of them (long in storage in the house, but they ran when I pulled
them from their Unitote/Regitel rack a couple of *decades* ago.

There is an RDOS - disk images, available at:

http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html

(Top entry in the list)  It is about a 2.5MB disk image.

I suggest that you might download SimH and that image, configure SimH as
a straight Nova (rather than a /3 or /4) and see if it runs that image
OK.  If so, there you go!

Beyond that, I *might* be able to help, but it will depend on what the
status of copyright is on what I have, and whether your system can even
run what I do have.  I am looking into the copyright part of it - that
may take a week or two.  (This is something I needed to to anyway).

In the meantime:

Do you have a way to *write* a 

Re: Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi everybody !

I captured very beautiful images in the idea to make a new video but I 
don't found the time to focus on that yet. There are a lot of changes in 
my small “data center” ;-)
Currently I gather all my big pieces in a single place, here my VAX 
4000-505A joined the D-116 :


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/read_datacenter01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/read_datacenter01b.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/read_datacenter02.jpg

I'm currently populating a third rack that will contain soon an IBM 
industrial PC, measurement tools (spectrum analyzer, oscilloscopes), and 
floppy drives of all generations (8 inches, 5 1/4, 3 1/2 ). The idea is 
be able to generate from these machines all sorts of old bootable media .


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/read_datacenter03.jpg 
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/read_datacenter03.jpg>


I'm still looking for another Operating System, an RDOS version 
compatible with my machine (it should be compatible with Nova 1200, Nova 
800 and possibly even Nova 2), according to Bruce Ray, the model of the 
disc cartridge controller (for the Diablo 44) is a determining factor 
concerning the possibility or not to be able to install RDOS on my system.


But here, the references shown on the controller are those of Nixdorf, I 
do not know what kind of Data General controller this board is the 
equivalent.


Here are the references visible on this board :

2456 00 MP-Kontroller D44an620 6393500215 2456 7 0 1577

R32-33 19.12.78-9

Some pictures :

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_03.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_05.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_06.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_07.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_08.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_09.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/D116_disk_controller_10.jpg

I should be really happy to install another Operating System for my dear 
DG Nova clone :-)


Dominique


On 15/01/2018 04:06, AJ Palmgren wrote:

Dominique,

Just checking in with you on this, and to thank you for posting your 
interest in this system here.


Do you have any updates, or perhaps new videos of it operating?

Thank you!
-AJ

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


Hi all

I start here another topic concerning my research about a new
Operating System for my freshly restored DCC-116 E.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/04.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/04.jpg>
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/02.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/02.jpg>

I originally intended to install RDOS on my machine but it seems
very difficult to find the files needed to make a system
installation tape.

I do not know well the subject yet, I don't found clear
information about the compatibility of my clone with the original
RDOS from Data General.
Thus, before trying the impossible, I would like to know if
another OS are available for my machine ?

I would like to be able to do basic things like :

- Be able to manage my devices, copy files from tape to disk or
vice versa.
- Be able to list directories, create subdirectories.
- Write and read text files that I could send on my drum printer.
- Have some communication software, tty, rs-232 (for the day I
find a comm board).
- Some diagnostic tools to check core memory, disk, tapes.
- Being able to write in a simple programming language such as
BASIC would be great.
- Be able to use simultaneously more than one Entrex terminal.
- Maybe a database software ... ?

Of course I am also interested in anything that goes beyond that.
I also have more bizarre projects with this machine like
generating algorithms to trace small animations on an analog
oscilloscope and ... well, another chapter ;-)


To recap, here the specifications of my system:

Computer : D-116, clone of a DG Nova 1230 with 17 slots, also
known as "Entrex 480" and "Nixdorf 620"
Core memory : 64 kW
Terminal : ENTREX DATA/SCOPE
Disk Cartridge : Diablo Model 40
Mag-tape : Pertec 8840A (800 bpi)
Line drum printer : Data Products model 2230

As the machine was distributed by Nixdorf, the identification of
the tape and disk controllers is a bit difficult, but I can take
detailed pictures.

Thanks a lot for your help !

Dominique

Re: Otrona / Hospital

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Courage and good luck !

I wasn't able to answer more fully, nor even now.  I just spent a week 
in the hospital.  giant kidney stone and massive infection.  First few 
days were intolerable levels of pain.  I am now on 2 weeks of 24/7 IV 
antibiotic infusions.  Bizarre little pump that I carry around, but, 
at least I'm carrying it around at home, instead of the hospital.

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi Dwight

The machine is in fact equipped with three connectors, a DB25 for RS-232 
communication, a DB9 male for the keyboard and a third connector, 
another DB9, female this time, not sure but I think it was to connect a 
card reader.


Do you think the serial I/O channel B can share its resource for the 
RS-232 and the keyboard at the same time?
Clearly the problem is around the SIO B, not the SIO itself because I 
tested this IC by replacing it with another identical SIO with exactly 
the same result.


As said below, the "OPTIONAL RAM BANK 0.1: FAILED" is not the problem, 
the machine can start without this memory extension board. It was the 
case when the machine worked by the past, it was also the case when I 
was able to enter the page setup some weeks ago, when the failure was 
still intermittent and not permanent.


Note that once the default parameters are loaded into the non-volatile 
memory and manually completed, after a reset, some FAILEDs are replaced 
by "??", which can be considered as "assumed as absent ".


I will continue to check and repair the eventually damaged solder/tracks 
(battery leakage), this is what I have been doing for 2 weeks now, and 
I'm going to try a suggestion from Chuck : Put an external "loopback" 
connector to the RS-232 DB25 which is linked to the SIO channel B, just 
to see if this has any impact on the diagnosis.


If not there is no result, I always would like to induce to the 
self-test program that the channel B is OK by injecting something (but 
what ?) to the SIO (perhaps by acting on this pin 30 which is W/RDYB, 
something like "channel B Ready to write" right ?) in the idea to force 
a positive diagnosis in the self-test.


Dominique

On 18/10/2017 06:44, dwight via cctalk wrote:

By the way, how is the terminal and keyboard connected to the computer?

Is it by RS232?

If so, it might be through SIO B. If this is the case, it might be the problem.

Also, the RAM failure may be the issue as well. You have something that is 
intermittent there. Bad RAM can cause programs to misbehave as well. Just 
because it passes some times doesn't mean it is good enough to run programs.

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of dwight via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 4:08:46 PM
To: Dominique Carlier; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette 
subsystem : Restoration

Since you know the pinout of the SIO chip, you might first look to see if where 
the rx and tx pins go. This may require some hunting with an ohm meter. I'd 
suspect they go to a RS232 level shifter.

You may also have to write some code to run the serial chip and any possible 
external loopback. As I recall these chips may have an internal loopback.

If you have a working logic analyzer, you can trigger on the select pin to the 
SIO and look to see what address the SIO is located at. That will allow you to 
create some debug code.

I'm not saying this is easy. Still, this is the way I'd attack the problem as a 
start.

You have to realize, there is not much more we can do for you.

Creating a ROM with a diagnostic looping program is about the only practical 
way to deal with a machine with no documentation.

I fixed an old mini once without schematics but it was all DTL and TTL and 
there were signal names at the card edges.

You have a Z80 computer. If you can program EPROMs you have a chance, otherwise 
it is unlikely that your current easter egg hunting method is likely to be very 
fruitful. You have already gone through most all of the likely failure items. 
From here you will likely have to begin to troubleshoot.

Dwight


____
From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Dominique Carlier via 
cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2017 1:59:47 PM
To: Chuck Guzis; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette 
subsystem : Restoration

Thanks for your response Chuck,

As described in the topic, just after the Power On, the machine runs a
self-test which is called "POC TEST" on the UTS range of Sperry Univac.
During this test, the machine checks the status of the RAM, the ROMs,
the Counter Timer, and the various communication interfaces.
Everything is OK except the ninth line which says: "SERIAL I / O CHANNEL
B: FAILED"

(ignore the FAILED next to "OPTIONAL RAM BANK 0,1", the machine can
start without this board)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_screen03.jpg

This channel B error completely freezes the machine, it does not load
the default settings, I no longer have access to the setup page, in this
situation the keyboard remains without effects.

When the POC test i

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Thanks for your response Chuck,

As described in the topic, just after the Power On, the machine runs a 
self-test which is called "POC TEST" on the UTS range of Sperry Univac.
During this test, the machine checks the status of the RAM, the ROMs, 
the Counter Timer, and the various communication interfaces.
Everything is OK except the ninth line which says: "SERIAL I / O CHANNEL 
B: FAILED"


(ignore the FAILED next to "OPTIONAL RAM BANK 0,1", the machine can 
start without this board)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_screen03.jpg

This channel B error completely freezes the machine, it does not load 
the default settings, I no longer have access to the setup page, in this 
situation the keyboard remains without effects.


When the POC test is successful, it loads the default settings in non 
volatile RAM:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_screen01.jpg

And I can access the setup page:
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_screen02.jpg

The few times I was able to go into the setup page (CHANNEL B: PASSED), 
I rushed to try to encode (with the dead keyboard) the data to declare 
the subsystem and finally return to the CP/M mode. And I had twice the 
case where without warning hop! Blank screen, automatic reset, self-test 
(POC) -> SERIAL I / O CHANNEL B: FAILED (again).
Maybe we have there some interesting information about the problem, the 
intermittent nature of this failure, could this give information about 
the type of component in fault?


But note that since weeks now the problem has become permanent, I have 
never been able to return to this famous setup page and the "serial I/O 
channel B" is now always marked as 'FAILED'.


So I have no way to try anything using the terminal at this point.

It is possible that the breakdown is in fact very simple (dry solder dry 
or attacked solder by the acid of the battery), but I would like to 
avoiding to rework all the solders, and maybe to finally find that the 
problem was at the level of an IC, I would try to locate the components 
linked to this problem. I look at the SIO, try to discover what is after 
just after, see how I can eventually act on the pin 30 (W/RDYB) of that IC :

http://www.sbprojects.net/projects/izabella/assets/images/sio1.jpg


And try to understand why this SIO no longer considers the channel B as 
'READY'

This kind of things ...
There are probably programmable loop-back circuitry used by the POC test 
program (in the ROM of the program cartridge).To ignore the negative 
diagnostic I would like to induce to the self-test program that the 
channel B is OK, what should I inject to the SIO (perhaps on this pin 
30) to force a positive diagnosis?
It would be interesting, just to see if in that way I can take control 
again on the machine, and check that the rest is working.


And yes, the SIO is working (as the CPU, the counter timer and the DMA 
controller) because I replaced these IC by another ones with the same 
faulty result.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_01.jpg

Thanks for your help ;-)

Dominique


On 17/10/2017 20:22, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 10/17/2017 10:50 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi Chuck,

Yes I understand well. But the fact that the machines Z80 based were all
equipped with this famous serial I/O channel A and B, I therefore
thought that the principle of verification of these channels would
probably be the same on this type of architecture (Z80+PIO+CTC+SIO).
Therefore, there should be probably more people able to give me some
useful information.

Perhaps, but we don't know exactly what surrounds the Z80 SIO, or
exactly what the diagnostic is complaining about.   Does your SIO have
anything other than line drivers or receivers on its external interface?
  Some systems have programmable loop-back circuitry to enable the
terminal to function to talk to itself and verify functionality.

If you ignore the diagnostic message and feed the terminal some serial
data, do the inputs on the SIO wiggle appropriately in response?  In
other words, is the data getting from the connector to the SIO chip?

Troubleshooting is slow, methodical work.

The SIO/DART chip itself is very simple--and most likely not the cause
of the diagnostic failure.  But writing your own diagnostic software can
verify that.

At least that's what I think from a few thousand km away.

--Chuck

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi Chuck,

Yes I understand well. But the fact that the machines Z80 based were all 
equipped with this famous serial I/O channel A and B, I therefore 
thought that the principle of verification of these channels would 
probably be the same on this type of architecture (Z80+PIO+CTC+SIO). 
Therefore, there should be probably more people able to give me some 
useful information.


Dominique


On 17/10/2017 19:26, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:

On 10/17/2017 04:56 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi guys!

Nobody here has any information to help me to solve my problem?
Do you think I should talk about this breakdown on another forum? If
yes, have you an address to recommend me?


Dominique, the probably reason that many of us don't jump in is that
you've got a tough job, given the house-numbered ICs and lack of visible
traces.

If this were my system and I was determined to get it working, I'd
probably start by dumping and disassembling the ROMs to find out exactly
what set of program steps occur to produce the error message.

I'd probably then write a diagnostic ROM that would allow me to probe in
detail to characterize the fault.  The happy circumstance is that the
display (and possibly the keyboard) is functional.)

Then I'd jump in with a logic analyzer or ICE to determine the exact
nature of the failure and its source.

You can see that this is an arduous process that few are equipped to
help you diagnose remotely.

My two cents' worth,
Chuck

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi Mattis !

I'm afraid I do not have the required skills :-/

I have never used this kind of tools. However I recovered this recently:
http://actingmachines.com/img/photos/package/europacorp/tektronix_1240_b.jpg 



But in the present state of my knowledge, I could not use it. Is it 
difficult for a novice to learn how to use it?


If I could just know what is the principle of the verification system of 
the PIO's channels A & B, and also what are the integrated circuits 
concerned? That would be valuable information.


Dominique

On 17/10/2017 17:09, Mattis Lind wrote:



2017-10-17 13:56 GMT+02:00 Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>:


Hi guys!

Nobody here has any information to help me to solve my problem?
Do you think I should talk about this breakdown on another forum?
If yes, have you an address to recommend me?

Thanks

Dominique



I don't know anything about the system you are about to repair but it 
make use of a standard CPU which is kind of useful when the schematic 
is missing. If I were you I would attach my trusty logic analyzer over 
the CPU to try to trace what it is doing. Which ROM does it access 
when it is doing the power up self test? Use a disassmbler on that 
particular ROM and work out what flow the CPU takes in the ROM 
contents and try to understand what causes it to take the decision 
that something is broken.


Since my logic analyzer has fairly limited memory depth I would have 
it to trigger on for example accessing the SIO.


/Mattis




On 15/10/2017 23:12, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi everybody,

As I have no documentation / schematics I started to look for
computer schematics where it is about Z80 and “serial I/O
channel B”, I found a lot of data about this subject that I do
not know at all.
These information would allow me to better target the
breakdown, if any of you would consent to pass on some of his
knowledge.
In all documentation on Z80 based machines, I find the same
elements, similar architectures: CPU, PIO, CTC, SIO.

http://www.z80.info/gfx/nascom1main.gif
<http://www.z80.info/gfx/nascom1main.gif>
http://www.ep128.hu/Sp_Konyv/Pic/SIO_11.gif
<http://www.ep128.hu/Sp_Konyv/Pic/SIO_11.gif>

I interchanged with the IC of my other CPU board which are of
the same model.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_01.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_01.jpg>

But the error persists, so the problem is around.
I'm trying to find out why the SIO detects a problem on the
channel B. How does this detection system work? What are the
solicited ICs? Do they communicate through other ICs like
multiplexers or others?

I would also like to simulate the absence of this problem in
order to see if this allows my UTS to have a successful POC
test, to have again access to the setup page of the machine.
Is it possible to do something at the SIO pin 30 (W/RDYB) to
pretend that the B channel is OK?
http://www.sbprojects.net/projects/izabella/assets/images/sio1.jpg
<http://www.sbprojects.net/projects/izabella/assets/images/sio1.jpg>

Can we imagine that the problem would be at the level of what
checks channel B and not channel B itself?
I also read a lot of obscure thing about memory, and I still
wonder if a memory problem could also play a part in this
failure? You must understand that I continue to try to
troubleshoot this machine like the others, comparative logic
without advanced academic knowledge, a challenge every time.

It's even harder because I have trouble identifying the
components. I do not find any results concerning the 3/4 of
the ICs, as for example these:
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_02.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_02.jpg>

And even for components like this, "AVX 224Z 8238"
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_03.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_03.jpg>

(ceramic capacitor of 220nf 50v? not sure)

There is also the fact that the tracks are not visible on the
CPU board which I try to repair, so I try to locate myself by
comparing component location to the original CPU board, in
short a beautiful mess.
Meanwhile, I restore this beautiful Key Tronics keyboard which
was in a very sad condition. Here are some pictures of this
restoration (work in progress)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_01.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_01.jpg&g

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi guys!

Nobody here has any information to help me to solve my problem?
Do you think I should talk about this breakdown on another forum? If 
yes, have you an address to recommend me?


Thanks

Dominique


On 15/10/2017 23:12, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi everybody,

As I have no documentation / schematics I started to look for computer 
schematics where it is about Z80 and “serial I/O channel B”, I found a 
lot of data about this subject that I do not know at all.
These information would allow me to better target the breakdown, if 
any of you would consent to pass on some of his knowledge.
In all documentation on Z80 based machines, I find the same elements, 
similar architectures: CPU, PIO, CTC, SIO.


http://www.z80.info/gfx/nascom1main.gif
http://www.ep128.hu/Sp_Konyv/Pic/SIO_11.gif

I interchanged with the IC of my other CPU board which are of the same 
model.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_01.jpg

But the error persists, so the problem is around.
I'm trying to find out why the SIO detects a problem on the channel B. 
How does this detection system work? What are the solicited ICs? Do 
they communicate through other ICs like multiplexers or others?


I would also like to simulate the absence of this problem in order to 
see if this allows my UTS to have a successful POC test, to have again 
access to the setup page of the machine.
Is it possible to do something at the SIO pin 30 (W/RDYB) to pretend 
that the B channel is OK?

http://www.sbprojects.net/projects/izabella/assets/images/sio1.jpg

Can we imagine that the problem would be at the level of what checks 
channel B and not channel B itself?
I also read a lot of obscure thing about memory, and I still wonder if 
a memory problem could also play a part in this failure? You must 
understand that I continue to try to troubleshoot this machine like 
the others, comparative logic without advanced academic knowledge, a 
challenge every time.


It's even harder because I have trouble identifying the components. I 
do not find any results concerning the 3/4 of the ICs, as for example 
these:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_02.jpg

And even for components like this, "AVX 224Z 8238"
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_03.jpg

(ceramic capacitor of 220nf 50v? not sure)

There is also the fact that the tracks are not visible on the CPU 
board which I try to repair, so I try to locate myself by comparing 
component location to the original CPU board, in short a beautiful mess.
Meanwhile, I restore this beautiful Key Tronics keyboard which was in 
a very sad condition. Here are some pictures of this restoration (work 
in progress)


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_02.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_03.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_03.jpg>
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_04.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_05.jpg 
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_05.jpg>


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_06.jpg 
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_06.jpg>


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_07.jpg

In any case I hold on, restarting this machine has become an 
obsession, but without help I will still be on it for the next 10 
years, thus  HELP! ;-)



Everything would be perfectly fine if most of the time I did not have 
at startup an error at line 9. of the POC test:


SERIAL I / O CHANNEL B: FAILED 

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi everybody,

As I have no documentation / schematics I started to look for computer 
schematics where it is about Z80 and “serial I/O channel B”, I found a 
lot of data about this subject that I do not know at all.
These information would allow me to better target the breakdown, if any 
of you would consent to pass on some of his knowledge.
In all documentation on Z80 based machines, I find the same elements, 
similar architectures: CPU, PIO, CTC, SIO.


http://www.z80.info/gfx/nascom1main.gif
http://www.ep128.hu/Sp_Konyv/Pic/SIO_11.gif

I interchanged with the IC of my other CPU board which are of the same 
model.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_01.jpg

But the error persists, so the problem is around.
I'm trying to find out why the SIO detects a problem on the channel B. 
How does this detection system work? What are the solicited ICs? Do they 
communicate through other ICs like multiplexers or others?


I would also like to simulate the absence of this problem in order to 
see if this allows my UTS to have a successful POC test, to have again 
access to the setup page of the machine.
Is it possible to do something at the SIO pin 30 (W/RDYB) to pretend 
that the B channel is OK?

http://www.sbprojects.net/projects/izabella/assets/images/sio1.jpg

Can we imagine that the problem would be at the level of what checks 
channel B and not channel B itself?
I also read a lot of obscure thing about memory, and I still wonder if a 
memory problem could also play a part in this failure? You must 
understand that I continue to try to troubleshoot this machine like the 
others, comparative logic without advanced academic knowledge, a 
challenge every time.


It's even harder because I have trouble identifying the components. I do 
not find any results concerning the 3/4 of the ICs, as for example these:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_02.jpg

And even for components like this, "AVX 224Z 8238"
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/sio_issue_03.jpg

(ceramic capacitor of 220nf 50v? not sure)

There is also the fact that the tracks are not visible on the CPU board 
which I try to repair, so I try to locate myself by comparing component 
location to the original CPU board, in short a beautiful mess.
Meanwhile, I restore this beautiful Key Tronics keyboard which was in a 
very sad condition. Here are some pictures of this restoration (work in 
progress)


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_02.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_03.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_04.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_05.jpg 



http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_06.jpg 



http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/keyboard2_07.jpg

In any case I hold on, restarting this machine has become an obsession, 
but without help I will still be on it for the next 10 years, thus  
HELP! ;-)



Everything would be perfectly fine if most of the time I did not have 
at startup an error at line 9. of the POC test:


SERIAL I / O CHANNEL B: FAILED 

Re: offlist RE: Looking for Nova 1200 guts

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Me, except (and I'm looking for) about the basic i/o board.
But it's a Nova 1200 clone fromDCC, thus a D-116 (E)

Dominique

On 12/10/2017 02:49, Jay West via cctalk wrote:

Crates of 'em. Not sure how many are 800 vs 1200 though...

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of jim stephens 
via cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 6:42 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Looking for Nova 1200 guts

I would like to see if anyone has a processor, basic i/o and a memory board for 
said system.

Thanks
Jim

Which Operating System for my DCC-116 E / Entrex 480 / Nixdorf 620 / Data General Nova 1200 clone ?

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi all

I start here another topic concerning my research about a new Operating 
System for my freshly restored DCC-116 E.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/02.jpg

I originally intended to install RDOS on my machine but it seems very 
difficult to find the files needed to make a system installation tape.


I do not know well the subject yet, I don't found clear information 
about the compatibility of my clone with the original RDOS from Data 
General.
Thus, before trying the impossible, I would like to know if another OS 
are available for my machine ?


I would like to be able to do basic things like :

- Be able to manage my devices, copy files from tape to disk or vice versa.
- Be able to list directories, create subdirectories.
- Write and read text files that I could send on my drum printer.
- Have some communication software, tty, rs-232 (for the day I find a 
comm board).

- Some diagnostic tools to check core memory, disk, tapes.
- Being able to write in a simple programming language such as BASIC 
would be great.

- Be able to use simultaneously more than one Entrex terminal.
- Maybe a database software ... ?

Of course I am also interested in anything that goes beyond that. I also 
have more bizarre projects with this machine like generating algorithms 
to trace small animations on an analog oscilloscope and ... well, 
another chapter ;-)



To recap, here the specifications of my system:

Computer : D-116, clone of a DG Nova 1230 with 17 slots, also known as 
"Entrex 480" and "Nixdorf 620"

Core memory : 64 kW
Terminal : ENTREX DATA/SCOPE
Disk Cartridge : Diablo Model 40
Mag-tape : Pertec 8840A (800 bpi)
Line drum printer : Data Products model 2230

As the machine was distributed by Nixdorf, the identification of the 
tape and disk controllers is a bit difficult, but I can take detailed 
pictures.


Thanks a lot for your help !

Dominique

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi All !

I started checking / replacing all the capacitors - tantalum and 
electrolytic - on the CPU board saved from the US. Until now I don't 
found the guilty.
The CPU board of the USA is a horror to troubleshoot, because of the 
acid the battery that changed the nature of solder tin and some kind of 
resin characteristic of these PCBs, it is difficult to desolder the 
components. I wonder if I would do better to repair my own CPU board 
because this one is finally in a better state in comparison.


What is raging is that these two types of breakdownswere perfectly well 
identified by Sperry Univac. According to the UTS 20 manual :


- Blank screen and long tone (the breakdown of my CPU board) : I'm 
supposed to report this information to my Sperry Univac customer 
services, point, no explanation


- SERIAL I/O CHANNEL B failure (the breakdown of the CPU board from US) :
Their advice = Corrective action: none, and I'm supposed to transmit the 
code "3560U-0010" (still to my Sperry Univac customer services).


Zero information, nothing, it is raging. One or two clues to orient my 
research would be so precious...


I have the corresponding manual but for the UTS 40 somewhere lost in my 
attic. I will find it, I do not have the hope to find a better 
description but I must be sure.
On this subject, I would like to scan and share it because it does not 
exist on the internet.


Dominique


On 2/10/2017 18:13, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi everybody,

Here is the next episode of the restoration of my UTS 40.

During the previous “season”, I was talking about buying a wreck of an 
UTS 40 from the USA.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/annonce.jpg

 I had taken the risk to buy it, after the conclusion of the sale, the 
seller had retracted, I had argued with him, I finally put a bad note 
on Ebay. However, surprise! The guy still sends me the machine. This 
one remains blocked during a full month at the Belgian custom house. I 
finally receive it, and now, if you like horror movies, you will be 
happy.


Here is the state in which I received the machine:
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_02.jpg

I never - never! - received a package in this condition !! The reason 
maybe was the hideous and ridiculously “protective” packaging ? 
Possible ... or in the plane they 400kg over my UTS ? Possible ... but 
we still have the impression that someone hammered the machine, even 
the very solid plastic pieces have also shattered.


As I am an optimistic guy, I think "the plastic ... not important, 
fortunately the chassis and the electronics of this machine is build 
like a tank".


I analyze the boards, as expected, some architectural differences but 
not so much. Here is the CPU board:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_03.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_06.jpg

Unsurprisingly, the battery has sunk and there are damages:
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_05.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_07.jpg

With courage I clean the board, I replace some resistors, one 
capacitor, ...

Before/After
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_08.jpg

and I replace the battery (2,4V ? A doubt persist)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_10.jpg

And comes the time of the first test and it boot!
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_09.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_09b.jpg

The POC test at startup is not successfull but from the outset, this 
allows me to analyze and diagnose some elements of my own UTS 40, here 
is what I notice:


- The program cartridge of my UTS 40 is functional
- The power supply to my UTS 40 is OK
- The video circuit of my UTS is OK
- The keyboard of my UTS requires a restoration (aluminum discs, foam 
cylinder, classic issue of old keytronic keyboard)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_11.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_12.jpg

- The absence of the backup battery is not a problem, the machine can 
boot, without this it can successfully passing the POC test and the 
encoding of the parameters in the setup page is possible.


I discover other interesting things about the relationship between the 
cartridge program and the hardware configuration.


- These program cartridge are made for a specific hardware 
configuration, for example the RAM repartitions at the level of 
hardware has an impact on the result of the startup test. The number 
of kilobytes checked, the memory extension considered as PASSED or 
FAILED. Even the installed memory is working and assignable, with a 
configuration that differs from the hardware intended to run with a 
specific Program Cartridge, the POC test could show that a memory is 
mis

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

You're probably right, but the work is so massive, and also this time I 
would like to understand and target this breakdown instead of working 
(as usual) in blind mode.
In addition, I do not see the same type of capacitor on the CPU board as 
the one from the subsystem you quote as being known to break down.


Do you think that the small green capacitors here
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_08.jpg

can be as fragile as this model there?
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair07.jpg

Dominique

On 2/10/2017 19:05, Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctech wrote:

On 8/13/17, 11:15 PM, "cctech on behalf of Dominique Carlier via cctech"
 wrote:



On 12/08/2017 19:35, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

the black one in the lower left

it is a tantalum, which are known to short, try removing them


Yes ! It was this one that was shorted !
I decided in the same way to repair the second disk drive but this time
by taking some pictures.

It would be a good idea to replace all tantalum capacitors; if two
shorted, chances are others are on their way out soon, too. Sometimes,
tantalum capacitor failure is paired with a nasty epxlosion that can make
a mess of things.

Camiel

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Yes indeed, on the "Peripheral Interface" connector of the US 
configuration there was a terminator which seems indicated that nothing 
was connected there. Moreover, with the Program Cartridge US, the 
terminal does not recognize the PERIPHERAL I/O board of my original 
configuration.
This is why I use the CPU board US, its memory extension but with my 
Program Cartridge and my PERIPHERAL I/O board on which the subsystem 
8406 was connected.
It is not impossible that the PERIPHERAL I/O board US is also able to 
manage the 8406 Subsystem, the board is very elaborate, 4 or 5 Zilog 80, 
and two rows of dip switches, but without documentation ... I prefer to 
try with the board that worked with the subsystem.


It remains to be discovered what the "SERIAL I/O CHANNEL B" is, find the 
related component and the breakdown, and there is a good chance that I 
can restart this venerable machine.
But I search everywhere, I have not found any information that explains 
what it is.


Dominique


On 2/10/2017 21:28, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:



On 10/2/2017 9:13 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:



Everything would be perfectly fine if most of the time I did not have 
at startup an error at line 9. of the POC test:


SERIAL I / O CHANNEL B: FAILED 
I doubt the US unit you bought was used with a floppy running CPM. It 
most likely had a synchronous channel for connection to some network 
and ran just standalone.


I recall that there were modules of some sort you added to get some 
functionality, so as to not have to open the box.  I don't know if you 
set anything outside the box, but it may have some switches or such to 
indicate some other device is present that now is not.  So it would 
fail on power on test.


that's just a guess on which way I'd go to figure it out.  I don't 
have any documentation or anything other than having had one for about 
a year for a project I did to go on.


Mine had no floppies, but had a printer interface option attached 
which was the same as one that was on a Univac 1100 series mainframe I 
was making a controller for.  So I could  just run a standalone test 
and if my controller card was working it would spew on the printer.
That option was also one of these things added on.  Never dug into 
anything as the device is pretty overengineered and without a lot of 
manuals and parts, you can't do much with it.


thanks
Jim

The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi everybody,

Here is the next episode of the restoration of my UTS 40.

During the previous “season”, I was talking about buying a wreck of an 
UTS 40 from the USA.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/annonce.jpg

 I had taken the risk to buy it, after the conclusion of the sale, the 
seller had retracted, I had argued with him, I finally put a bad note on 
Ebay. However, surprise! The guy still sends me the machine. This one 
remains blocked during a full month at the Belgian custom house. I 
finally receive it, and now, if you like horror movies, you will be happy.


Here is the state in which I received the machine:
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_02.jpg

I never - never! - received a package in this condition !! The reason 
maybe was the hideous and ridiculously “protective” packaging ? Possible 
... or in the plane they 400kg over my UTS ? Possible ... but we still 
have the impression that someone hammered the machine, even the very 
solid plastic pieces have also shattered.


As I am an optimistic guy, I think "the plastic ... not important, 
fortunately the chassis and the electronics of this machine is build 
like a tank".


I analyze the boards, as expected, some architectural differences but 
not so much. Here is the CPU board:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_03.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_06.jpg

Unsurprisingly, the battery has sunk and there are damages:
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_05.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_07.jpg

With courage I clean the board, I replace some resistors, one capacitor, ...
Before/After
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_08.jpg

and I replace the battery (2,4V ? A doubt persist)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_10.jpg

And comes the time of the first test and it boot!
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_09.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_09b.jpg

The POC test at startup is not successfull but from the outset, this 
allows me to analyze and diagnose some elements of my own UTS 40, here 
is what I notice:


- The program cartridge of my UTS 40 is functional
- The power supply to my UTS 40 is OK
- The video circuit of my UTS is OK
- The keyboard of my UTS requires a restoration (aluminum discs, foam 
cylinder, classic issue of old keytronic keyboard)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_11.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40_from_usa_12.jpg

- The absence of the backup battery is not a problem, the machine can 
boot, without this it can successfully passing the POC test and the 
encoding of the parameters in the setup page is possible.


I discover other interesting things about the relationship between the 
cartridge program and the hardware configuration.


- These program cartridge are made for a specific hardware 
configuration, for example the RAM repartitions at the level of hardware 
has an impact on the result of the startup test. The number of kilobytes 
checked, the memory extension considered as PASSED or FAILED. Even the 
installed memory is working and assignable, with a configuration that 
differs from the hardware intended to run with a specific Program 
Cartridge, the POC test could show that a memory is missing, simply 
because the RAM is not physically in the slot or socket according to the 
program specification in the cartridge.
I drew this conclusion because the CPU board form USA has 64Kb installed 
on it, and 27 empty sockets, I filled them with RAM and now with the 
program cartridge form Ebay, 4X  64KB are detected and flagged with a 
PASSED.
However with my program cartridge, it detects a second memory extension 
as PASSED, but considers the first extension FAILED, I think that on the 
original CPU board, there was only 32kb, even 16kb and non-extensible on 
that board (hence the presence of two memory expansion boards in my 
original configuration). Briefly, according to the inserted program 
cartridge, the tests are sometimes but not always dynamically adaptable 
to a given configuration.


- A cartridge program can be programmed to operate only with a specific 
model of PERIPHERAL I/O board. The program cartridge form Ebay does not 
work with my PERIPHERAL I/O board, however my program cartridge seems to 
detect the PERIPHERAL I/O board of the US.


- I recreated the breakdown of my machine with the hardware of the other 
UTS. I'm talking about the situation of a long BEEP + blank screen, this 
happens if I remove the unique memory expansion board in the original 
configuration of the UTS from Ebay, this could mean that my own CPU 
board is maybe OK and that this could be one of two memory extensions of 
my machine that has a problem (Hypothesis).


But now, 

Re: formatting MFM drives on a IBM PC

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Maybe simply run the debug utility supplied with DOS and at the prompt 
enter this:


G=C800:5

Normally, all the necessary tools to check and mark bad blocks are 
accessible by this way. However, you will have to encode manually the 
HDD specifications (heads, sectors, etc.)


On 26/09/2017 20:08, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

trying to check some MFM drives I have on my shelf.
Have an IBM PC AT, with an WD1003 controller in it.

So, what is the best(?) or easiest piece of software,
to format the drives, check for bad blocks, etc.?

I think I remember something like "ontrack" for doing it,
but didn't touch PCs for a while ...

Ideas? Links?

Thanks!

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

YES! The monster booting again! :-)

Thus after checking the condition of the capacitors and the rectifying 
diodes by interchanging the 5v sources under the advice of Curious Marc, 
a finally swapped Q12 and Q13, find the dead one, replace Q13. Following 
the advice of Christian I raised both regulated + 5V by taking into 
account the resistance of the circuit. It was a good advice because in 
full load, it was missing something like 0.3V.


Finally I was for sure with a machine that would running but not booting.

As I suspected a problem with the OS installed in the core memory and on 
the Diablo 44 I tried in vain to reinstall this OS (Didos) from tape 
drive, unsuccessfully. To spice things up ,the machine fall in 
protection because of an overheating in the power supply G1.
I open for the 20th time these two PSU, to find that the fan of G1 is 
dead, I tried to repair it but the coil is downright grilled. It's good 
news. I find another fan, I do not have a 115VAC in stock , I solder new 
wires to feed 220VAC to the "new" fan. Problem solved !


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/00a.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/00b.jpg

And now let's go to find the problem on the Pertec tape drive side, 
engine control works, it's like if it reading/receive nothing,  I 
cleaning the read head again, connectors (read, write, control), I 
linger on the front buttons and bingo! The lamp of the switch 500/800 
BPI stays lit regardless of the real state, thus I was trying to read 
800 bpi tape under 500 bpi modewithout knowing. Small but vicious failure.


After that I was able to install from the master tape a new version of 
this OS, YES ! I reformatted the Diablo disk, I made read tests, writing 
with various devices, all seems OK!!

I'm happy, this machine comes back from afar ;-)

I have five Entrex terminals but I will already take care of the one 
currently active, it must be cleaned from top to bottom. The plastic of 
the hull is yellowed by the years, I think I will not have fun to do 
retrobright, I will squarely repaint it. The keyboard works well but 
some touch contacts are a bit recalcitrant. About the printer there is 
work, I will rather concentrate about the Operating System because here, 
besides the small happening aesthetic that I allow myself to do now, it 
is imperative that I find an Operating System, a real OS and even several.


The stuff currently installed is very basic, extremely closed, hyper 
limited, for my part this OS does not even deserve the name of OS, it is 
a simple data acquisition software with some abstruse utilities, DIDOS 
was Developed by Nixdorf for its "own" model 620, a D-116 (17 slots) 
made up of Digital Computer Control (itself being a clone of Nova 1200).
As I describe in other posts, the CPU seems to have been upgraded since 
it dates from 1978 while some maintenance control stickers date from 
1976, another on a multiplexing card for terminals Entrex displays 1974.


I'm going on the idea of ​​finding RDOS for the 16-bit Nova line, but 
maybe I could install a newer OS (eg AOS for the 16-bit Eclipse)? I also 
read many pages on which it was also a question of DG-DOS, RTOS, NIROS 
 know you others?


In any case one thing is sure: I searched for hours and I did not find 
anything to make a new op-sys tape to install something else instead of 
my pathetic Didos. The only downloadable data I found, some RDOS sources 
for SIMH which emulates the DG NOVA. Do any of you know where I might 
find these precious data?

Of course I also look for a maximum of programs to install on the monster.

For info I have a VAX 4000-605A with a TU81 + (currently disconnected) 
but which would allow me to write a tape with data transiting thru my 
home network.
Otherwise I also have a Shugart (KENNEDY) 9612 which can write in 800, 
1600, 3200 or 6250 bpi, this tape drive is equipped with a SCSI interface.


https://computerarchive.org/files/comp/hardware/Shugart%20Kennedy%209-track%209610%20tape%20drives.pdf

I have not analyzed if I can connect it directly to a good old Adaptec 
controller inside a PC, nor with which program I could exploit it.

Besides if you have information about this they are welcome!

And finally,  while waiting for the video, here some pictures of the 
machine in operation ;-)


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/02.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/03.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/second_boot/04.jpg

Dominique

PS: AJ, some pics of the Entrex terminal for you above ;-)

Re: C64 to VGA

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

I do not think so, not sure but it would be more a semi transparent mask 
over the native rendition.



On 29/08/2017 05:32, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

I just mentioned the rasterlines/scanlines generated via software on modern
PC's in the context of game emulators with Mame. This is of course not
applicable in the situation of a C64 connected to a VGA 4/3 LCD, except if
you you are using an intermediate hardware like that:

http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices:::4.html

Hmm. So this would be something that makes physical blank lines in
between the logical lines being sent by the C64?


In fact it would be much simpler to find a simple small TV for this brave
C64 ;-)



On 29/08/2017 03:39, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

The design of many games on C64 are made according to the rasterlines of
PAL/NTSC CRT, so I strongly do not advise using a flat screen 4/3 for a C64
or an Amiga because the rendering is disastrous unless you add a rasterlines
generator.

What do you mean by "a rasterlines generator"? I'm curious.

Re: C64 to VGA

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

I just mentioned the rasterlines/scanlines generated via software on 
modern PC's in the context of game emulators with Mame. This is of 
course not applicable in the situation of a C64 connected to a VGA 4/3 
LCD, except if you you are using an intermediate hardware like that:


http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices:::4.html

In fact it would be much simpler to find a simple small TV for this 
brave C64 ;-)




On 29/08/2017 03:39, Eric Christopherson via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

The design of many games on C64 are made according to the rasterlines of
PAL/NTSC CRT, so I strongly do not advise using a flat screen 4/3 for a C64
or an Amiga because the rendering is disastrous unless you add a rasterlines
generator.

What do you mean by "a rasterlines generator"? I'm curious.

Re: C64 to VGA

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

The design of many games on C64 are made according to the rasterlines of 
PAL/NTSC CRT, so I strongly do not advise using a flat screen 4/3 for a 
C64 or an Amiga because the rendering is disastrous unless you add a 
rasterlines generator.



On 28/08/2017 03:30, Kevin Parker via cctalk wrote:

HI guys - not really a C64 person (I've been given a couple over the years and 
kept them rather than see them go to landfill).

Trying to fix one up for a very good friend for a house warming present for his 
games room (he said something the other day that
gave me the hint).

I have a genuine Commodore monitor but don't want to give him that but I have 
bucket loads of VGA (LCD) monitors I've scored over
time as well so thought I'd use one of those.

I've googled het subject a lot but there seems to be lots of options and views 
on what works and what doesn't and even how well.

I'd be most grateful if anyone on the list has any advice, suggestions, 
recommendations etc about this.

Thank you


Kevin Parker

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

s the same : it's always the +5V on pins 10-14 /
36-40 that collapses, never the other output.
  
Some resistors are not yet tested is because these must be de-soldered

for a valid test, but the printed circuit is very fragile and many
component have legs bent into the weld.
  
Except for the not tested components (among others the LM376, the

rectifier diodes) At this stage I start again to suspect a little
everything. The famous large capacitors of the power supply (C1 to C4).
But also a possible problems on the boards of the computer itself.
  
As one of you mentioned, the hypothesis of shorted decoupling capacitors

on the boards could put the power supply in default.
  
Note that the machine runs normally with the CPU board, three core

memory boards (400w each) + two multiplexing boards for terminals + the
printer board.
If I add only one of these remaining board:
- Disk Pack Controller
- 9-track tape Controller
- "scanner" board (also for terminals)
  
-> Power Fail.
  
Note that : if I only connect the CPU and the disk pack controller card:

Power Fail too !!
  
What makes me doubtful about this scenario is that I can not imagine

that these three boards, each causing the Power Fail, could fail
simultaneously. Remember that the first time I powered up the beast (one
big hour), the machine was working with all the boards and Power Fail
appeared at once.
I have not retested since but also note that by adding an external power
supply just for the deficient + 5V , the machine has restarted and even
booted the operating system.
  
If you have another ideas? LM376?
  
Thanks
  
Dominique
  
  
On 20/08/2017 09:08, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2017-Aug-19, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these power supplies, 
moreover it might be useful to other people with the same computer.
  
An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1 and G2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg
  
The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg
  
A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with the physical locations of the components.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg
  
The schematics of this regulation board.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg
  
And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation about the regulation with this PSU (you will understand better why I am a little bit lost ;-) This principle of regulation with a panoply of verification and Protection systems everywhere is unusual for me)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg
  
I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms. Next step, try to check the capacitors in operation.
  
Results of the observations:

- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power supply. More I add 
boards more the + 5v level goes down. +5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It remains 
stable however with just the CPU and the three core memory boards, it becomes 
difficult for the power supply when I add boards in addition to these.
- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the Power Fail circuit.
- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).
- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation itself, the +5V 
balancing system ?
  
Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always thought it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states depending on the charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce 'in-between' 
output voltage.)
  
As is typical for power supplies of this type and era, this power supply includes current limiting circuitry.
  
The current-limiting circuitry will throttle down the output voltage (not shut it off completely) as the output current draw goes above a design limit.

This would appear to fit the symptoms you describe.
  
The current-limiting circuitry works by placing a small-value resistor in the current path after the main regulator transistor(s) (aka pass transistors) but prior to the voltage-regulation sense point.

A transistor senses the voltage across this R.
As the output current increases, the voltage across the current-sense R 
increases, at some point the transistor starts to turn on, and the transistor 
is connected in such a way that as it turns on it reduces the drive to the pass 
transistors, throttling down the output voltage.
  
Arbitrarily using the "A2" heatsink half of the two +5 supplies in this power supply for component references, the current-sense R is comprised of a series-parallel circuit formed by the BE junctions of the 2 pass transistors (A2.Q1, A2.Q2), the two 0.1ohm Rs on the emitters of the pass transistors (A3.R10,A3.R11), the 47ohm Rs between B of those transistors, A3.R23, A3A1A1.R8, 376.R9, alo

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

these must be de-soldered

for a valid test, but the printed circuit is very fragile and many

component have legs bent into the weld.

Except for the not tested components (among others the LM376, the

rectifier diodes) At this stage I start again to suspect a little

everything. The famous large capacitors of the power supply (C1 to C4).

But also a possible problems on the boards of the computer itself.

As one of you mentioned, the hypothesis of shorted decoupling capacitors

on the boards could put the power supply in default.

Note that the machine runs normally with the CPU board, three core

memory boards (400w each) + two multiplexing boards for terminals + the

printer board.

If I add only one of these remaining board:

- Disk Pack Controller

- 9-track tape Controller

- "scanner" board (also for terminals)

-> Power Fail.

Note that : if I only connect the CPU and the disk pack controller card:

Power Fail too !!

What makes me doubtful about this scenario is that I can not imagine

that these three boards, each causing the Power Fail, could fail

simultaneously. Remember that the first time I powered up the beast (one

big hour), the machine was working with all the boards and Power Fail

appeared at once.

I have not retested since but also note that by adding an external power

supply just for the deficient + 5V , the machine has restarted and even

booted the operating system.

If you have another ideas? LM376?

Thanks

Dominique

On 20/08/2017 09:08, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2017-Aug-19, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these
power supplies, moreover it might be useful to other people
with the same computer.

An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1
and G2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg

The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg

A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with
the physical locations of the components.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg

The schematics of this regulation board.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg

And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation
about the regulation with this PSU (you will understand better
why I am a little bit lost ;-) This principle of regulation
with a panoply of verification and Protection systems
everywhere is unusual for me)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg

I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms.
Next step, try to check the capacitors in operation.

Results of the observations:

- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power
supply. More I add boards more the + 5v level goes down.
+5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It remains stable however with
just the CPU and the three core memory boards, it becomes
difficult for the power supply when I add boards in
addition to these.

- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the
Power Fail circuit.

- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).

- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation
itself, the +5V balancing system ?

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this
way? I always thought it worked or it did not work, but
not between the two states depending on the charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce
'in-between' output voltage.)

As is typical for power supplies of this type and era, this power
supply includes current limiting circuitry.

The current-limiting circuitry will throttle down the output
voltage (not shut it off completely) as the output current draw
goes above a design limit.

This would appear to fit the symptoms you describe.

The current-limiting circuitry works by placing a small-value
resistor in the current path after the main regulator
transistor(s) (aka pass transistors) but prior to the
voltage-regulation sense point.

A transistor senses the voltage across this R.

As the output current increases, the voltage across the
current-sense R increases, at some point the transistor starts to
turn on, and the transistor is connected in such a way that as it
turns on it reduces the drive to the pass transistors, throttling
down the output voltage.

Arbitrarily using the "A2" heatsink half of the two +5 supplies in
this power supply for component references, the current-sense R is
comprised of

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

these must be de-soldered

for a valid test, but the printed circuit is very fragile and many

component have legs bent into the weld.

Except for the not tested components (among others the LM376, the

rectifier diodes) At this stage I start again to suspect a little

everything. The famous large capacitors of the power supply (C1 to C4).

But also a possible problems on the boards of the computer itself.

As one of you mentioned, the hypothesis of shorted decoupling capacitors

on the boards could put the power supply in default.

Note that the machine runs normally with the CPU board, three core

memory boards (400w each) + two multiplexing boards for terminals + the

printer board.

If I add only one of these remaining board:

- Disk Pack Controller

- 9-track tape Controller

- "scanner" board (also for terminals)

-> Power Fail.

Note that : if I only connect the CPU and the disk pack controller card:

Power Fail too !!

What makes me doubtful about this scenario is that I can not imagine

that these three boards, each causing the Power Fail, could fail

simultaneously. Remember that the first time I powered up the beast (one

big hour), the machine was working with all the boards and Power Fail

appeared at once.

I have not retested since but also note that by adding an external power

supply just for the deficient + 5V , the machine has restarted and even

booted the operating system.

If you have another ideas? LM376?

Thanks

Dominique

On 20/08/2017 09:08, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2017-Aug-19, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these
power supplies, moreover it might be useful to other people
with the same computer.

An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1
and G2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg

The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg

A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with
the physical locations of the components.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg

The schematics of this regulation board.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg

And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation
about the regulation with this PSU (you will understand better
why I am a little bit lost ;-) This principle of regulation
with a panoply of verification and Protection systems
everywhere is unusual for me)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg

I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms.
Next step, try to check the capacitors in operation.

Results of the observations:

- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power
supply. More I add boards more the + 5v level goes down.
+5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It remains stable however with
just the CPU and the three core memory boards, it becomes
difficult for the power supply when I add boards in
addition to these.

- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the
Power Fail circuit.

- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).

- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation
itself, the +5V balancing system ?

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this
way? I always thought it worked or it did not work, but
not between the two states depending on the charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce
'in-between' output voltage.)

As is typical for power supplies of this type and era, this power
supply includes current limiting circuitry.

The current-limiting circuitry will throttle down the output
voltage (not shut it off completely) as the output current draw
goes above a design limit.

This would appear to fit the symptoms you describe.

The current-limiting circuitry works by placing a small-value
resistor in the current path after the main regulator
transistor(s) (aka pass transistors) but prior to the
voltage-regulation sense point.

A transistor senses the voltage across this R.

As the output current increases, the voltage across the
current-sense R increases, at some point the transistor starts to
turn on, and the transistor is connected in such a way that as it
turns on it reduces the drive to the pass transistors, throttling
down the output voltage.

Arbitrarily using the "A2" heatsink half of the two +5 supplies in
this power supply for component references, the current-sense R is
comprised of

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi all,

Thank you Marc, I will follow your advice. Doubts must be removed. I 
would be glad to know that the big (and expensive) capacitors are OK.


In the meantime I have new information. Following the remarks of Brent 
Hilpert I sought to have more information on the backplane of my D116-E. 
I always assumed that the information in the manuals did not match my 
version of backplane because of this:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/backplane/01.jpg

The boards are placed to another slots in the documentation. I put this 
on the accounts of the many revisions but also the fact that the 
computer has been distributed by Nixdorf and they probably assembled the 
elements, and made the setup of the backplane with the wires. Regardless 
of the configuration of the slots, the wires setup, the associated 
external connectors, at the level of power supply finally I thinks that 
should be the same situation on my D116 as on another.
In digging into the second manual which does not contain the schematics 
I found this precious diagram:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/backplane/diagram.jpg

I discovered that the common point that brings together the boards 
causing the Power Fail (HDD controller / Tape controller / Scanner) is 
the fact that they are in the slots from 8 to 12 which are powered by 
the regulated +5V of the circuit A2.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/backplane/diagram2.jpg

In other words, the circuit + 5V A2 of the power supply G2 serves only 
to power the boards in the slots from 8 to 12 which cause a power fail 
if only one of these slots is populated with one of the boards.


What I don't understood yet is why it's on the pins of A1 (10-14 / 
36-40) that I measure a drop of tension?

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/backplane/pins_a1.jpg

Because A2 is on the pins 15-22 / 41-48
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/backplane/diagram_a2.jpg

I will re-read the operation of the Power Fail, maybe it supposed to 
clamp A1 even in case of problem on A2 ?
Or I don't understood all the intricacies about the power supply of 
these antique boards ^^


Anyway I'll do the tests you suggest Marc, it sounds good to have 
confirmation that the basic level are working well before going any further.


Thank you for your help ;-)

Dominique

(PS: Sorry for duplicate messages, I had to go wrong with the reply 
addresses so that it appears on the forum)





On 25/08/2017 06:43, Curious Marc wrote:


Dominique,

I wouldn't worry about the readings on your 0.1 Ohm resistor, you are 
not going to get any trustable results on something that low without 
a four wire ohm-meter.


It seems that you have eliminated the power transistors as being the 
source of the failure.


I'd like to eliminate the rectifier diodes or the big caps as the 
source of the problem


1- Could you please measure and compare (or better get a scope trace) 
of the voltage at the F3 and F2 fuses when the voltage drops. If the 
voltage also drops at the fuse (pre-regulation) then either your 
caps/diode combo is not good, or your boards are drawing too much 
current.


2-If that's the case, you could also easily swap the power source for 
the two regulators. Temporarily lifting both fuses on the output side 
, and cross wire F2 to feed A2 and F3 to feed A1. If the fault moves, 
that would strongly  indicate that one of the cap/diode combo is bad. 
If it does not, then either the regulation circuitry is bad or the 
boards draw an anomalous amount of power.


3-Measure how much each board is pulling (as far as amps). You can do 
this easily by removing the fuse and putting an ammeter in its place, 
then plug each board one at a time, and read what the amperage is.


4-Do a similar measurement adding boards one by one and see at which 
amperage the voltage starts to degrade, and if it exceeds the design 
criterion for the power supply.


Marc


Here is the situation.

The + 5V 12A that collapses comes out from pins 10-14 / 36-40, the other

+ 5V 12A (pins 15-22 / 36-40) never goes down.

All that I surrounded in green on that image (1950×2361, zoomable) are

the components that I tested on the power supply G2, A3 motherboard,

regulation board and heatsink A1 + A2:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/g2_tested_components.jpg

To eliminate some doubts and because I do not have some spare parts on

hand, I switched the modules A1 and A2, same result. Idem with the

transistors 2N2905, same result.

The result is always the same : it's always the +5V on pins 10-14 /

36-40 that collapses, never the other output.

Some resistors are not yet tested is because these must be de-soldered

for a valid test, but the printed circuit is very fragile and many

component have legs bent into the weld.

Except for the not tested components (among others the LM376, the

rectifier diodes) At this stage I start again to suspect a little

everything. The famous large capacitors of the power supply (C1 to C4).

But 

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

I put the answers in your message

23/08/2017 20:22, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:


Am I correct in inferring that this machine (the processor) has four +5V 
regulators?:  it appears there are 2 power supply chassis (rear photo), each 
with 2 regulators,
or are those 2 chassis not identical and there are only to two +5 regulators?

I myself have trouble understanding and for good reason:

The power supply Gl provides :

   - unregulated +15V
   - unregulated -15V
   - regulated -5V
   - regulated +15V
   - regulated +5V voltages
   - a 30V peak-to peak voltage
   - a time delayed (sequenced) outputs; MEM OK, +5V OK and Power Fail

The sequenced outputs are such that upon power turn-on, first the +5V OK 
occurs, then MEM OK, followed by Power Fail. Upon power turn-off or when 
input power is lost, first the Power Fail goes low, then MEM OK and then 
+5V OK goes down.


The G2 type Power Supply provides :

   - unregulated +15V
   - unregulated -15V
   - two distinct regulated +5V
   - regulated -5V
   - a 30V peak-to-peak voltage
   - a time delayed Power Fail and +5V OK signals



Either way, is it documented or has it been mapped out how the regulators are 
distributed to the bus/backplane slots?

No

If not, I would suggest doing so to start with, so you know what slots & boards 
each regulator is supplying power to.

I would like to but ... here is the back-plane:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/backplane.jpg


Two possibilities come to mind:
- One board, perhaps the CPU board from what you describe, has a fault 
increasing it's current draw.
 Without other boards plugged in on the same regulator, it's within the 
current capabilities of the regulator and 'appears' fine.
But with another board, the current draw is excessive for the regulator 
and current limiting kicks in.
Possible, but these 3 boards, controller for tape, disk pack, scanner 
(terminal), seem to be more greedy than the others (bad decoupling 
capacitors ?)

- How is the backplane for this machine organised: as a pure bus, or 
with dedicated slots for specific boards?

Dedicated slots for specific boards

Even if it is a bus structure, there might be requirements/limits on board 
combinations to distribute the load amongst the regulators.
Might the machine have been misconfigured by someone moving boards around, so 
that 2 heavy load boards end up on the same regulator and send it into current 
limiting?
Unlikely, the stickers on the chassis indicate the location of the 
boards, this seems to be like that since factory.

A minor comment regarding the components in the power supply: Q13 is a stage in 
the regulator drivers and as consequential as other components such as Q2.

Do you think that Q12 (linked to defective A1 / + 5v) could be the culprit?

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Here is the situation.

The + 5V 12A that collapses comes out from pins 10-14 / 36-40, the other 
+ 5V 12A (pins 15-22 / 36-40) never goes down.


All that I surrounded in green on that image (1950×2361, zoomable) are 
the components that I tested on the power supply G2, A3 motherboard, 
regulation board and heatsink A1 + A2:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/g2_tested_components.jpg

To eliminate some doubts and because I do not have some spare parts on 
hand, I switched the modules A1 and A2, same result. Idem with the 
transistors 2N2905, same result.
The result is always the same : it's always the +5V on pins 10-14 / 
36-40 that collapses, never the other output.


Some resistors are not yet tested is because these must be de-soldered 
for a valid test, but the printed circuit is very fragile and many 
component have legs bent into the weld.


Except for the not tested components (among others the LM376, the 
rectifier diodes) At this stage I start again to suspect a little 
everything. The famous large capacitors of the power supply (C1 to C4). 
But also a possible problems on the boards of the computer itself.


As one of you mentioned, the hypothesis of shorted decoupling capacitors 
on the boards could put the power supply in default.


Note that the machine runs normally with the CPU board, three core 
memory boards (400w each) + two multiplexing boards for terminals + the 
printer board.

If I add only one of these remaining board:
- Disk Pack Controller
- 9-track tape Controller
- "scanner" board (also for terminals)

-> Power Fail.

Note that : if I only connect the CPU and the disk pack controller card: 
Power Fail too !!


What makes me doubtful about this scenario is that I can not imagine 
that these three boards, each causing the Power Fail, could fail 
simultaneously. Remember that the first time I powered up the beast (one 
big hour), the machine was working with all the boards and Power Fail 
appeared at once.
I have not retested since but also note that by adding an external power 
supply just for the deficient + 5V , the machine has restarted and even 
booted the operating system.


If you have another ideas? LM376?

Thanks

Dominique


On 20/08/2017 09:08, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2017-Aug-19, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these power supplies, 
moreover it might be useful to other people with the same computer.

An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1 and G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg

The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg

A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with the physical 
locations of the components.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg

The schematics of this regulation board.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg

And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation about the 
regulation with this PSU (you will understand better why I am a little bit lost 
;-) This principle of regulation with a panoply of verification and Protection 
systems everywhere is unusual for me)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg

I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms. Next step, try to 
check the capacitors in operation.



Results of the observations:
- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power supply. More I add 
boards more the + 5v level goes down. +5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It remains 
stable however with just the CPU and the three core memory boards, it becomes 
difficult for the power supply when I add boards in addition to these.
- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the Power Fail circuit.
- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).
- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation itself, the +5V 
balancing system ?

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always thought 
it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states depending on the 
charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce 'in-between' 
output voltage.)

As is typical for power supplies of this type and era, this power supply 
includes current limiting circuitry.

The current-limiting circuitry will throttle down the output voltage (not shut 
it off completely) as the output current draw goes above a design limit.
This would appear to fit the symptoms you describe.

The current-limiting circuitry works by placing a small-value resistor in the 
current path after the main regulator transistor(s) (aka pass transistors) but 
prior to the voltage-regulation sense point.
A transistor senses the voltage across this R.
As the output current increases, the voltage across the current-sense R 
increases, at some point the tran

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Because I had removed every wires to test transistors on A1 and A2, and 
since I have to buy 4 new 0.1ohm resistors and an equivalent of 2N6254, 
in the meantime because they are identical I decided to interchange A1 
and A2, I was hoping note a +5V collapsed on the other output but no, it 
is always the same output which is in default, the one that is 
associated with A1. It is therefore possible that the problem is not at 
the level of these series pass transistors.


Maybe Q2 on the regulator board ?


On 20/08/2017 09:25, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2017-Aug-20, at 12:08 AM, Brent Hilpert via cctalk wrote:

On 2017-Aug, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always thought 
it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states depending on the 
charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce 'in-between' 
output voltage.)


Should modify that answer a little: a regulator like this can, not just if 
faulty, but also by design intention, produce an 'in-between' output voltage, 
as per the functioning of the current-limit circuitry.

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hello,

Yes, it is a "Fluke 73" maybe not enough accurate for that kind of 
measurements ?



On 21/08/2017 18:53, Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:

Hi Dominique,

Are you using a standard DMM to make your resistance measurements? If not,
you may have more consistent results by using a laboratory DMM that is
rated to measure milliohms.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 11:47 AM Dominique Carlier via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Thank you very much for these valuable detailed information! :-)

Also following the suggestions of Curious Marc, I focus now on the
comparison between the two almost identical circuits that deliver the
regulated + 5V on G2.

Following your explanations, I started by checking the transistors and
resistors on the heatsinks A1 and A2, and also checking the resistors of
0.1 Ω (R10 to R13)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/cheked.jpg

But first I see on the schematic that these transistors are supposed to
be "2N6254", but I see on A1 and A2 that the 4 transistors are "7540"
(full name: POWER PHYSICS 001554 7540), I do not find The datasheet of
this model.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/serie_pass_transistor.jpg

The results of the test on the pass transistors:
By doing the various checks between B E C for NPN transistor, no
problems. No unwanted open or closed circuit at wrong place.
However if I measure the value between B and E, on all the transistors I
read + - 0.510 except for one where it is + -0.440, it is Q2 on A1 which
is precisely the board that delivers the + 5V which collapse. Is this
transistor defective?

The small resistances which are between the bases and collectors of each
transistors all show + -50 Ω (they are supposed to be 47 Ω but I imagine
it's OK like that)
But about R10, R11, R12 and R13, these resistors are supposed to be have
a value of 0.1 Ω , right?
Because for these 4 resistors I read values ​​ranging from 0.2 to 0.4 Ω!

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/resistor_check.jpg

Strange thing, today I take the measurements again (with two different
multi-meters to be sure) and the values ​​today are different, located
between 0.8 and 1 Ω !! I do not understand this variation, I had
unwrapped only one leg, I removed both now, same type of result: 0.9 Ω !

Unfortunately because these 4 resistors are in the same state, these are
probably not the cause of the collapsed +5V only on the side of A1, What
is your opinion about that?
Anyway, I'm going to change those resistors for sure. I will also change
the transistor which only passes 0.44 instead of 0.52, I intend to put
an equivalent of 2N6254 hoping that the actual 7540 are also an
equivalent of the 2N6254 mentioned in the schematics.

Thanks a lot for your help !

Dominique

On 20/08/2017 09:08, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2017-Aug-19, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these power

supplies, moreover it might be useful to other people with the same
computer.

An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1 and G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg

The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg

A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with the

physical locations of the components.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg

The schematics of this regulation board.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg

And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation about the

regulation with this PSU (you will understand better why I am a little bit
lost ;-) This principle of regulation with a panoply of verification and
Protection systems everywhere is unusual for me)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg

I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms. Next step,

try to check the capacitors in operation.

Results of the observations:
- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power supply. More I

add boards more the + 5v level goes down. +5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It
remains stable however with just the CPU and the three core memory boards,
it becomes difficult for the power supply when I add boards in addition to
these.

- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the Power Fail

circuit.

- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).
- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation itself, the

+5V balancing system ?

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always

thought it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states
depending on the charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce

'in-between' output voltage.)

As is typical for power supplies of this type and era, this power supply

includes current limit

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Thank you very much for these valuable detailed information! :-)

Also following the suggestions of Curious Marc, I focus now on the 
comparison between the two almost identical circuits that deliver the 
regulated + 5V on G2.


Following your explanations, I started by checking the transistors and 
resistors on the heatsinks A1 and A2, and also checking the resistors of 
0.1 Ω (R10 to R13)


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/cheked.jpg

But first I see on the schematic that these transistors are supposed to 
be "2N6254", but I see on A1 and A2 that the 4 transistors are "7540" 
(full name: POWER PHYSICS 001554 7540), I do not find The datasheet of 
this model.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/serie_pass_transistor.jpg

The results of the test on the pass transistors:
By doing the various checks between B E C for NPN transistor, no 
problems. No unwanted open or closed circuit at wrong place.
However if I measure the value between B and E, on all the transistors I 
read + - 0.510 except for one where it is + -0.440, it is Q2 on A1 which 
is precisely the board that delivers the + 5V which collapse. Is this 
transistor defective?


The small resistances which are between the bases and collectors of each 
transistors all show + -50 Ω (they are supposed to be 47 Ω but I imagine 
it's OK like that)
But about R10, R11, R12 and R13, these resistors are supposed to be have 
a value of 0.1 Ω , right?

Because for these 4 resistors I read values ​​ranging from 0.2 to 0.4 Ω!

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_g2_test/resistor_check.jpg

Strange thing, today I take the measurements again (with two different 
multi-meters to be sure) and the values ​​today are different, located 
between 0.8 and 1 Ω !! I do not understand this variation, I had 
unwrapped only one leg, I removed both now, same type of result: 0.9 Ω !


Unfortunately because these 4 resistors are in the same state, these are 
probably not the cause of the collapsed +5V only on the side of A1, What 
is your opinion about that?
Anyway, I'm going to change those resistors for sure. I will also change 
the transistor which only passes 0.44 instead of 0.52, I intend to put 
an equivalent of 2N6254 hoping that the actual 7540 are also an 
equivalent of the 2N6254 mentioned in the schematics.


Thanks a lot for your help !

Dominique

On 20/08/2017 09:08, Brent Hilpert wrote:

On 2017-Aug-19, at 12:10 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these power supplies, 
moreover it might be useful to other people with the same computer.

An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1 and G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg

The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg

A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with the physical 
locations of the components.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg

The schematics of this regulation board.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg

And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation about the 
regulation with this PSU (you will understand better why I am a little bit lost 
;-) This principle of regulation with a panoply of verification and Protection 
systems everywhere is unusual for me)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg

I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms. Next step, try to 
check the capacitors in operation.

Results of the observations:
- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power supply. More I add 
boards more the + 5v level goes down. +5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It remains 
stable however with just the CPU and the three core memory boards, it becomes 
difficult for the power supply when I add boards in addition to these.
- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the Power Fail circuit.
- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).
- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation itself, the +5V 
balancing system ?

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always thought 
it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states depending on the 
charge.

(In answer to the question, yes, a faulty regulator can produce 'in-between' 
output voltage.)

As is typical for power supplies of this type and era, this power supply 
includes current limiting circuitry.

The current-limiting circuitry will throttle down the output voltage (not shut 
it off completely) as the output current draw goes above a design limit.
This would appear to fit the symptoms you describe.

The current-limiting circuitry works by placing a small-value resistor in the 
current path after the main regulator transistor(s) (aka pass transistors) but 
prior to the voltage-regulation sense point.

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Maybe it's better to give us all the useful information these power 
supplies, moreover it might be useful to other people with the same 
computer.


An overall bloc diagram of the D-116 power supply including G1 and G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_overall_bloc_diagram.jpg

The complete schematics of the part of the power supply named G2.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_schematics.jpg

A drawing of the regulation board of the power supply G2 with the 
physical locations of the components.

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board.jpg

The schematics of this regulation board.
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/g2_regulator_board_schematics.jpg

And a bit of literature concerning the principle of operation about the 
regulation with this PSU (you will understand better why I am a little 
bit lost ;-) This principle of regulation with a panoply of verification 
and Protection systems everywhere is unusual for me)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_regulation_principe.jpg

I have already tried without the CPU board: same symptoms. Next step, 
try to check the capacitors in operation.


And because all this is a little bit boring, here is, as a small gift, a 
photo gallery of the machine under different angles ;-)


Ensemble

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/ensemble_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/ensemble_02.jpg 



D-116 Front panel

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/d116_front_panel_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/d116_front_panel_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/d116_front_panel_03.jpg

D-116 open rack

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/d116_open_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/d116_open_02.jpg

G2 regulator board

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/g2_regulator_board.jpg

Disk Pack drive Diablo Model 40

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/diskpack_drive_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/diskpack_drive_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/diskpack_drive_03.jpg

Mag-tape Pertec 8840A

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/pertec_close.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/pertec_open_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/pertec_open_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/pertec_open_03.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/pertec_open_04.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/pertec_open_05.jpg

Drum printer Data Products model 2230

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/printer_01.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/printer_02.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/printer_03.jpg

Terminal Entrex

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/terminal.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/terminal_nacked.jpg

Rear panel / connectors

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/rear_panel.jpg

From inside

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/flat_cables.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/serie01/from_inside.jpg 



Haa I can't wait to operate this heavy machine! ;-)

Dominique

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hello Marc,

In fact no, i am not really sure, I checked twice all the big filtering  
caps but as you with a low voltage tester. These caps comes apparently  
from a new old stock and some doubts persists now.
I admit, I don't know how to test these caps at rated voltage with my  
tools or in situ with the caps inside the working (and thus  
closed/packed/connected) PSUs


Dominique

On 19/08/2017 07:11, Curious Marc wrote:

Great work, you have isolated the supply fault. Looks like it's not regulating, 
but the fact that it starts at 5V tells me it actually is, at low current 
drain. Are you *really really* sure the filtering caps are good *at rated 
voltage* (we had a recent case of caps that tested perfect with my low voltage 
tester but were duds at their rated voltage)? Bad caps would cause something 
like this. If not I'd usually start to check the regulating power transistors. 
Could be anything else of course, having the schematics would allow for a much 
more intelligent conversation instead of blind speculation.
Marc

On Aug 18, 2017, at 10:25 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

Some news !

Following a risky way (but I did not see how to do otherwise), I deactivated 
the Power Fail by hiding the contact number 23 of the two power supplies.
The idea was to avoid automatic protection by lowering the regulated voltages 
(+5V and 15V) and see first which unit was involved (G1 or G2), and also which 
voltages became weak, at what level it is lowered, and according to which board 
(model or number of connected boards).

Results of the observations:
- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power supply. More I add 
boards more the + 5v level goes down. +5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It remains 
stable however with just the CPU and the three core memory boards, it becomes 
difficult for the power supply when I add boards in addition to these.
- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the Power Fail circuit.
- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).
- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation itself, the +5V 
balancing system ?

Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always thought 
it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states depending on the 
charge.

Anyway, suggestions are always welcome ;-)

PS : I'm starting to want to put another power supply for that regulated +5V, 
and bypass the +5V regulated of G2, but it would be a shame and not in the 
spirit of a restoration in my opinion.




 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring 
and restarting
Date:Wed, 16 Aug 2017 23:33:31 +0200
From:Dominique Carlier <d...@skynet.be>
To:Christian Kennedy via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>



Hi !

I finally find some time to work again on my D-116, try to find the
problem(s), thus principally at the level of PSUs.
As you suggested, I inspected particularly the large capacitors of both
power supplies. I replaced those that appeared suspicious according to
the results via my ESR meter, but note that this one is not supposed to
be able to verify the capacitors of more than 22000μF. I have also some
doubt about the results (capacitor working with a real charge or not).

Anyway, unfortunately the problem is still there. I don't know where to
search now. If I understand well, the two power supplies can cause a
Power Fail if one of the regulated voltages were out of range. At this
point I do not know which of the two is in fault, because when the Power
Fail is active the + 5V is automatically dropped around 1.5V.
Following the schematics I have focused my attention on the value of
some resistors with an important role in triggering this state (eg R18).
I found nothing abnormal, I checked all the capacitors, a large package
of resistances.

At this point what I know is that I can simultaneously connect the CPU
board and the three core memory boards without problem. If I add the
controller board for the removable hard disk drive or for the tape ->
Power Fail.
Interesting thing: if I connect only the CPU board and the disk
controller: Power Fail too. Maybe the PSU in default is the one that
supply the + 5V for the boards in the upper part of the rack? (slot 1
for the CPU, solt 4, 5 and 7 for the mem, slot 10 and 12 for tape and hdd)

I can provide pictures, schematics, ...

Regardless of this failure, I try to find information about what I could
install as an operating system on that big beast. If you have too any
ideas about that?

I would like to be able to do simple tasks such as managing files
(copying files from disk to tape and vice versa), being able to create
directories and sub directories, writing text, print on my drum printer,
programming in a simple language such as BASIC, and also, if I find a
communication board (on the CPU-board I don't found any trace of
components that evoke me an RS-232 in

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Some news !

Following a risky way (but I did not see how to do otherwise), I 
deactivated the Power Fail by hiding the contact number 23 of the two 
power supplies.
The idea was to avoid automatic protection by lowering the regulated 
voltages (+5V and 15V) and see first which unit was involved (G1 or G2), 
and also which voltages became weak, at what level it is lowered, and 
according to which board (model or number of connected boards).


Results of the observations:
- This is definitely the regulated +5V of the G2 power supply. More I 
add boards more the + 5v level goes down. +5v, +4.8v, +3.6v, +2.9v. It 
remains stable however with just the CPU and the three core memory 
boards, it becomes difficult for the power supply when I add boards in 
addition to these.

- This is definitely not a problem at the level of the Power Fail circuit.
- The big capacitors are not in fault (I rechecked twice).
- So this maybe a problem at the level of the regulation itself, the +5V 
balancing system ?


Question: a faulty voltage regulator can behave in this way? I always 
thought it worked or it did not work, but not between the two states 
depending on the charge.


Anyway, suggestions are always welcome ;-)

PS : I'm starting to want to put another power supply for that regulated 
+5V, and bypass the +5V regulated of G2, but it would be a shame and not 
in the spirit of a restoration in my opinion.





 Forwarded Message 
Subject: 	Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - 
Restoring and restarting

Date:   Wed, 16 Aug 2017 23:33:31 +0200
From:   Dominique Carlier 
To: Christian Kennedy via cctalk 



Hi !

I finally find some time to work again on my D-116, try to find the
problem(s), thus principally at the level of PSUs.
As you suggested, I inspected particularly the large capacitors of both
power supplies. I replaced those that appeared suspicious according to
the results via my ESR meter, but note that this one is not supposed to
be able to verify the capacitors of more than 22000μF. I have also some
doubt about the results (capacitor working with a real charge or not).

Anyway, unfortunately the problem is still there. I don't know where to
search now. If I understand well, the two power supplies can cause a
Power Fail if one of the regulated voltages were out of range. At this
point I do not know which of the two is in fault, because when the Power
Fail is active the + 5V is automatically dropped around 1.5V.
Following the schematics I have focused my attention on the value of
some resistors with an important role in triggering this state (eg R18).
I found nothing abnormal, I checked all the capacitors, a large package
of resistances.

At this point what I know is that I can simultaneously connect the CPU
board and the three core memory boards without problem. If I add the
controller board for the removable hard disk drive or for the tape ->
Power Fail.
Interesting thing: if I connect only the CPU board and the disk
controller: Power Fail too. Maybe the PSU in default is the one that
supply the + 5V for the boards in the upper part of the rack? (slot 1
for the CPU, solt 4, 5 and 7 for the mem, slot 10 and 12 for tape and hdd)

I can provide pictures, schematics, ...

Regardless of this failure, I try to find information about what I could
install as an operating system on that big beast. If you have too any
ideas about that?

I would like to be able to do simple tasks such as managing files
(copying files from disk to tape and vice versa), being able to create
directories and sub directories, writing text, print on my drum printer,
programming in a simple language such as BASIC, and also, if I find a
communication board (on the CPU-board I don't found any trace of
components that evoke me an RS-232 interface), communicate with another
machine, print on a teletype ... Does this seem possible for you with
this type of machine? If yes, with which OS?

I took tons of pictures of the machine from all angles, I will post them
soon ;-)

Dominique




If I removes all the boards (printer, core memory, scanner, disk
controller, etc.), the Power Fail light eventually goes out, I get again
the 5VDC, so the power has become "too weak" to power the computer when
it is fully populated.

It's a switcher; look at the caps in the LC filter (downstream of the
series pass transistor) that, together with the inductor, form the
energy storage mechanism of the power supply; check the source supply as
well.  The fact that it eventually comes back suggests that the
reference, comparator and pass device are probably functioning.

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi !

I finally find some time to work again on my D-116, try to find the 
problem(s), thus principally at the level of PSUs.
As you suggested, I inspected particularly the large capacitors of both 
power supplies. I replaced those that appeared suspicious according to 
the results via my ESR meter, but note that this one is not supposed to 
be able to verify the capacitors of more than 22000μF. I have also some 
doubt about the results (capacitor working with a real charge or not).


Anyway, unfortunately the problem is still there. I don't know where to 
search now. If I understand well, the two power supplies can cause a 
Power Fail if one of the regulated voltages were out of range. At this 
point I do not know which of the two is in fault, because when the Power 
Fail is active the + 5V is automatically dropped around 1.5V.
Following the schematics I have focused my attention on the value of 
some resistors with an important role in triggering this state (eg R18). 
I found nothing abnormal, I checked all the capacitors, a large package 
of resistances.


At this point what I know is that I can simultaneously connect the CPU 
board and the three core memory boards without problem. If I add the 
controller board for the removable hard disk drive or for the tape -> 
Power Fail.
Interesting thing: if I connect only the CPU board and the disk 
controller: Power Fail too. Maybe the PSU in default is the one that 
supply the + 5V for the boards in the upper part of the rack? (slot 1 
for the CPU, solt 4, 5 and 7 for the mem, slot 10 and 12 for tape and hdd)


I can provide pictures, schematics, ...

Regardless of this failure, I try to find information about what I could 
install as an operating system on that big beast. If you have too any 
ideas about that?


I would like to be able to do simple tasks such as managing files 
(copying files from disk to tape and vice versa), being able to create 
directories and sub directories, writing text, print on my drum printer, 
programming in a simple language such as BASIC, and also, if I find a 
communication board (on the CPU-board I don't found any trace of 
components that evoke me an RS-232 interface), communicate with another 
machine, print on a teletype ... Does this seem possible for you with 
this type of machine? If yes, with which OS?


I took tons of pictures of the machine from all angles, I will post them 
soon ;-)


Dominique




If I removes all the boards (printer, core memory, scanner, disk
controller, etc.), the Power Fail light eventually goes out, I get again
the 5VDC, so the power has become "too weak" to power the computer when
it is fully populated.

It's a switcher; look at the caps in the LC filter (downstream of the
series pass transistor) that, together with the inductor, form the
energy storage mechanism of the power supply; check the source supply as
well.  The fact that it eventually comes back suggests that the
reference, comparator and pass device are probably functioning.

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

On 12/08/2017 19:35, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

the black one in the lower left

it is a tantalum, which are known to short, try removing them



Yes ! It was this one that was shorted !
I decided in the same way to repair the second disk drive but this time 
by taking some pictures.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair02.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair03.jpg

First, I desolder the same capacitor as on the first drive

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair04.jpg

but ...

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair05.jpg

Damn, it's not the same faulty capacitor ! Fortunately by checking the 
next one on the path of the + 24v


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair06.jpg

There you are !

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair07.jpg 



Since, I reassembled the beast, everything seems to be OK on the 
subsystem side, he's ready to follow the instructions of the UTS 40 !


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair08.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/8406repair09.jpg 



When I think that somewhere on the CPU board of the computer it is 
perhaps a simple component like that capacitor which is the cause of 
this breakdown since 17 long years ...

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

It seems that you are right, I start successfully the Memorex 102 with 
the PSU without flickering, this HDD uses the same voltages as the 
Mitsubishi M2894-63D 8" disk drive (24VDC - 5VDC).


It remains me to find out which components are faulty

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/M2894-63_board01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/M2894-63_board02.jpg

I did not know this type of case for capacitors

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/M2894-63_board03.jpg



On 12/08/2017 14:30, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:
Note that this produces the same result with either of the two disk 
drive connected however your suggestion is interesting.
These two drives have the same age and some capacitors may become 
faulty simultaneously. I will analyze the hypothesis, thanks!
I have an old hard drive (MEMOREX 102) with the same connector for the 
supply, i'm going to test the PSU with this other device.


On 11/08/2017 16:13, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

On 8/11/17 5:40 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

I continued my investigations about the power supply if the 8406 subsystem.
Here is what I observe:

With the PSU in charge, I mean with a disk drive connected but without the +24V 
:
+5V -5V +12V -12V: OK
If I connect the +24V to the drive this is at this moment than the power supply 
goes mad and sends erratic alternating
voltages to the + & - 5V and + & - 12v.

It sounds like something is wrong with the disk drives, probably a shorted 
capacitor on the drive.

If you apply a resistive load on the 24v does the supply still go crazy?

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Note that this produces the same result with either of the two disk 
drive connected however your suggestion is interesting.
These two drives have the same age and some capacitors may become faulty 
simultaneously. I will analyze the hypothesis, thanks!
I have an old hard drive (MEMOREX 102) with the same connector for the 
supply, i'm going to test the PSU with this other device.



On 11/08/2017 16:13, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 8/11/17 5:40 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi all,

I continued my investigations about the power supply if the 8406 subsystem.
Here is what I observe:

With the PSU in charge, I mean with a disk drive connected but without the +24V 
:
+5V -5V +12V -12V: OK
If I connect the +24V to the drive this is at this moment than the power supply 
goes mad and sends erratic alternating
voltages to the + & - 5V and + & - 12v.

It sounds like something is wrong with the disk drives, probably a shorted 
capacitor on the drive.

If you apply a resistive load on the 24v does the supply still go crazy?

Re: The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi all,

I continued my investigations about the power supply if the 8406 subsystem.
Here is what I observe:

With the PSU in charge, I mean with a disk drive connected but without 
the +24V :

+5V -5V +12V -12V: OK
If I connect the +24V to the drive this is at this moment than the power 
supply goes mad and sends erratic alternating voltages to the + & - 5V 
and + & - 12v.


The question remains complete, which is the guilty component? :

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/subsystem05.jpg

Is it possible that rectifier diodes become mad only when they have a 
significant load? Or is it finally a faulty capacitor that a ESR-meter 
can not detect as broken when is it not in charge?


Dominique

On 10/08/2017 20:07, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Hi everybody,

After talking about this subject but in a thread following a sale - 
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2017-July/036578.html - I 
decided to start here a thread but this time fully dedicated to the 
restoration of this rare computer, I named the SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 
and its Subsystem 8406 (2 X 8 "DSDD).

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/1.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/2.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3.jpg

I take the opportunity to show you the 4 motherboards of that beast in 
details (hi-res)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/4boards_presentation.jpg

The CPU board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/cpu_board.jpg

The communication board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/communication_board.jpg

A memory extension board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/memory_extension_board.jpg

And a - I don't know exactly - board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/unknown_board.jpg
(Any information ?)

In the other thread some topics were discussed, I will copy some part 
here in the idea of grouping these information.


This machine has an historical importance for me. I have an 
unforgettable memory of the data center in which my father worked. He 
sometimes took me with him in the early evening to start some 
procedures to be done during the night (process, tape backup, 
printing), my father worked on a UNIVAC 9200 II and then on a SPERRY 
UNIVAC 90/30. I remember the look of this big room in the dark, it was 
beautiful like a Christmas tree ;-) (that's what I was saying when I 
was five).


Me in 1980 at 6 ... yes, I had hair like the kid in the movie 
"Shining" ;-)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/dce1980.jpg

I even remember the exact configuration of the 90/30 : 3 X disk pack 
drive of 30 MB each, 3 X nine track tape drive Uniservo 10/14, a punch 
card reader/writer, a frightening and noisy drum printer, an 
indefinable number of UTS20D terminals, a beautiful Uniscope 100 that 
was standing next to the control panel on the central console, and a 
little bit later (1983) ... a UTS 40 and its subsystem. All these 
beautiful machines shone in the darkness of this data center during 
the night, it was beautiful, there was also the characteristic smell 
of hot machines in these places, well ventilated but smokers allowed. 
It is indeed of this time that I come to me an attraction for the 
technology and mainly for computers, preferably big, imposing and 
spectacular.


In 1987, my father acquired a VAX 8350 (3 X CPU - 6 X RA82H - 2 X TU81 
plus - a lot of VT220s and one VT340), progressively they started the 
migration from the 90/30  to the 8350, some part of the 90/30 are been 
progressively decommissioned and I received sometimes some gears. 
Notes that at the age of 14 I had only an Amiga 500 and a Commodore 
64, when I received the UTS 40 and its subsystem 8406 (with a UTS 20D 
bonus) in 1987 from my father's hands, I considered this computer as 
my first "serious" machine. Besides the sentimental value through the 
paternal donation, this machine evoked me the loved mainframes and 
computer terminals from my childhood.


I used this machine from 1988 to 1999 (the date of the breakdown). I 
wanted to give it a major utility in my own "data center" and under 
CP/M I coded in BASIC a program to manage a database, a kind of big 
help-memory-reminder, in which I noted all that passed by my mind, a 
lot of funny stuff, dreams, projects, technical stuff, music 
annotations, poetry... ;-)


Here I was 16 and so happy to have fun with my dear UTS 40 ^_^
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/1989.jpg

My UTS 40 was ON every day and I used it constantly, the machine 
seemed indestructible however after 20 years of good and loyal 
services it began to show signs of fatigue. I had sometimes an error 
message during the POC TEST at initialization (RAM or ROM error, I can 
not remember). At this time I incriminated my brave cat who was 
watching me tapping on the keyboard and sleeped regularly on the top 
of the screen that served her as heater, thus blocking the normal 
ventilation of the 

The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi everybody,

After talking about this subject but in a thread following a sale - 
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2017-July/036578.html - I 
decided to start here a thread but this time fully dedicated to the 
restoration of this rare computer, I named the SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 and 
its Subsystem 8406 (2 X 8 "DSDD).

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/1.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/2.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3.jpg

I take the opportunity to show you the 4 motherboards of that beast in 
details (hi-res)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/4boards_presentation.jpg

The CPU board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/cpu_board.jpg

The communication board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/communication_board.jpg

A memory extension board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/memory_extension_board.jpg

And a - I don't know exactly - board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/unknown_board.jpg
(Any information ?)

In the other thread some topics were discussed, I will copy some part 
here in the idea of grouping these information.


This machine has an historical importance for me. I have an 
unforgettable memory of the data center in which my father worked. He 
sometimes took me with him in the early evening to start some procedures 
to be done during the night (process, tape backup, printing), my father 
worked on a UNIVAC 9200 II and then on a SPERRY UNIVAC 90/30. I remember 
the look of this big room in the dark, it was beautiful like a Christmas 
tree ;-) (that's what I was saying when I was five).


Me in 1980 at 6 ... yes, I had hair like the kid in the movie "Shining" ;-)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/dce1980.jpg

I even remember the exact configuration of the 90/30 : 3 X disk pack 
drive of 30 MB each, 3 X nine track tape drive Uniservo 10/14, a punch 
card reader/writer, a frightening and noisy drum printer, an indefinable 
number of UTS20D terminals, a beautiful Uniscope 100 that was standing 
next to the control panel on the central console, and a little bit later 
(1983) ... a UTS 40 and its subsystem. All these beautiful machines 
shone in the darkness of this data center during the night, it was 
beautiful, there was also the characteristic smell of hot machines in 
these places, well ventilated but smokers allowed. It is indeed of this 
time that I come to me an attraction for the technology and mainly for 
computers, preferably big, imposing and spectacular.


In 1987, my father acquired a VAX 8350 (3 X CPU - 6 X RA82H - 2 X TU81 
plus - a lot of VT220s and one VT340), progressively they started the 
migration from the 90/30  to the 8350, some part of the 90/30 are been 
progressively decommissioned and I received sometimes some gears. Notes 
that at the age of 14 I had only an Amiga 500 and a Commodore 64, when I 
received the UTS 40 and its subsystem 8406 (with a UTS 20D bonus) in 
1987 from my father's hands, I considered this computer as my first 
"serious" machine. Besides the sentimental value through the paternal 
donation, this machine evoked me the loved mainframes and computer 
terminals from my childhood.


I used this machine from 1988 to 1999 (the date of the breakdown). I 
wanted to give it a major utility in my own "data center" and under CP/M 
I coded in BASIC a program to manage a database, a kind of big 
help-memory-reminder, in which I noted all that passed by my mind, a lot 
of funny stuff, dreams, projects, technical stuff, music annotations, 
poetry... ;-)


Here I was 16 and so happy to have fun with my dear UTS 40 ^_^
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/1989.jpg

My UTS 40 was ON every day and I used it constantly, the machine seemed 
indestructible however after 20 years of good and loyal services it 
began to show signs of fatigue. I had sometimes an error message during 
the POC TEST at initialization (RAM or ROM error, I can not remember). 
At this time I incriminated my brave cat who was watching me tapping on 
the keyboard and sleeped regularly on the top of the screen that served 
her as heater, thus blocking the normal ventilation of the machine.
Important thing : after a POC test error asimple reset was enough to 
restart the machine.This can be a useful data regarding components that 
were tired at that time. In the case of an eprom that breaks down, the 
change from the operating state to the non-operating state is direct, is 
it not? (i mean, without return possible to an operating state).


Anyway, one day I turned my UTS ON and instead of the POC TEST and the 
short BIP, just a long "BEEEP" and nothing on the screen. As I 
remembered the RAM / ROM issues displayed via the POC TEST, I suspected 
the ROMs on the "program cartridge". In fact I knew a lot less 
electronics compared to today. Fortunately I had printed all of my 
writings with the Manesmann-Tally dot matrix printer that was connected 
to the machine shortly before the failure.

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Strange seller, I do not understand anything, he handed his UTS for ten 
times the price, but in the same time he just sent me a tracking number 
O_o. I do not know what to expect. Will I receive this UTS or not? If 
not, will I get my money back? I do not know. Meanwhile, for the 
principle, I put a nice negative note. But this guy is a little beside 
his shoes.


Going back to the subject, yes you may be right, this UTS 40 looks 
different, I cross my fingers so that it is not completely different (if 
I received the beast). The connectors of the communication board are 
deported to another place but this does not necessarily mean that the 
CPU board is different. The keyboard connector is not visible on the 
photos because it is in a lower place, but here too I cross my fingers. 
I am even wondering if this UTS has a CP/M program cartridge, nothing is 
less certain. This is my ultimate attempt to save my UTS, or at least 
have a comparison machine for my observations, spare parts if this UTS 
is completely dead. I do not have the skills required to detect problems 
too complex in a purely academic way, past a certain stage, I am forced 
to find a reference machine so that my intuition carried by comparative 
tests can direct me towards the possible breakdown.


Concerning your firmware requests if I can help ... Note however that 
regarding my UTS, in the case of the program cartridge there are 8 
eproms without supports, soldered to the card. In some case it should be 
physically difficult to dump these rom.



On 1/08/2017 17:41, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

They canceled my order as well, just after sending me a message wondering if I 
wanted the keyboard

I hope they just relist it

On the other hand, this isn't the same as your unit, the connectors on the back 
are in a different
place and I don't see the 9 pin keyboard connector so this may be a completely 
different design

I'm sort of annoyed because I bought a UTS 30 keyboard from someone else. It is 
a Keytronics inside, so
at least I'll dump the firmware in it.

--

For what it's worth, I've been seeing sellers cancel orders after the fact a 
LOT this year. It's really
annoying if it is one piece of something that I had to buy parts from other 
places to complete.



On 8/1/17 12:54 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Finally, a bad plan this Ebay ad.

After many unsuccessful attempts to repair my UTS and the growing fear that my 
problem is at the level of the EPROMs
inside the Program Cartridge, I finally decided to buy the UTS on Ebay.
Unfortunately the seller is the style to cancel a finalized, paid and marked as 
sent transaction, by invoking with Ebay
a "out of stock" reason.

The real reason? He thinks now he will be able to sell this old untested 
terminal that rotted in his juice for 20 years
without keyboard for ten times the price initially posted.
I hope I will see my money again.

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Finally, a bad plan this Ebay ad.

After many unsuccessful attempts to repair my UTS and the growing fear 
that my problem is at the level of the EPROMs inside the Program 
Cartridge, I finally decided to buy the UTS on Ebay.
Unfortunately the seller is the style to cancel a finalized, paid and 
marked as sent transaction, by invoking with Ebay a "out of stock" reason.


The real reason? He thinks now he will be able to sell this old untested 
terminal that rotted in his juice for 20 years without keyboard for ten 
times the price initially posted.

I hope I will see my money again.

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

*I still suspect PSU (not food ^^ bad translator)


On 30/07/2017 22:44, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:


Thanks a lot, but as described in my last post, I finally found the 
location of the missing battery. I repast the text here:


Yes ! I found it !


http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/06.jpg

You are right, there was indeed a beginning of corrosion with a 
leaking battery. I had taken it away, I could not remember it at all.
I still have to find the voltage of this missing battery, do you know 
it? Otherwise I have this UTS20D, there may also be a battery with the 
same value ...


So I cleaned the rest of the acid, no damage I think.

http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/05.jpg

So it would only be the cause of the blank screen? That would be so 
great !! :-)
I also disassembled the PSU board, some inflated capacitors, I'm going 
to replace all these caps. There is also a broken/burned "molex" 
connector.


I will repair all this and I will post a topic dedicated to the 
restoration of this machine.

Thank you all for the information !


Unfortunately, in the meantime I replaced a series of capacitors at 
the end of life, repaired the broken / burned Molex, built a replica 
of this battery and it does not change anything, I always have a blank 
screen.
I still suspect food, something else that seems strange to me is the 
absence of sound of static electricity when I turn on or off the 
monitor, the filaments of the CRT collar nevertheless.

Difficult without schematics



On 30/07/2017 22:26, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:



On 7/30/2017 4:43 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Can you tell me where the batteries are supposed to be, on which board?
I disassembled the machine, extracted the 4 motherboards, I did not 
see any batteries anywhere.
If they are externalized, maybe I removed them a long time ago in 
the idea of replacing them, but I have not yet found where they were 
connected in that case.


I don't know there are batteries, but the device had a lot of 
configurations which were retained by some means.  1999 was a bit 
early for eeproms that didn't have battery backup of some sort.


If there are no batteries visible, or large super caps which can back 
up memory content, that is a good thing.


There may also be Dallas modules in the thing or similar which 
integrate batteries.  The components will usually have had a 5 to 10 
year lifespan, and probably won't work so well across power cycles.


thanks
Jim


On 28/07/2017 11:25, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
I do hope you get it going.  If you feel qualified, one thing I'd 
also look for are packs with batteries to hold information that may 
have decayed.  That sometimes can cause what you described.  since 
the system may have been left since 1999, the batteries may have 
gone onto corrosion and you may have a bit of fixing to do for that.

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Yes ! I found it !

http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/06.jpg

You are right, there was indeed a beginning of corrosion with a leaking 
battery. I had taken it away, I could not remember it at all.
I still have to find the voltage of this missing battery, do you know 
it? Otherwise I have this UTS20D, there may also be a battery with the 
same value ...


So I cleaned the rest of the acid, no damage I think.

http://zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/05.jpg

So it would only be the cause of the blank screen? That would be so 
great !! :-)
I also disassembled the PSU board, some inflated capacitors, I'm going 
to replace all these caps. There is also a broken/burned "molex" connector.


I will repair all this and I will post a topic dedicated to the 
restoration of this machine.

Thank you all for the information !

On 30/07/2017 13:43, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:

Can you tell me where the batteries are supposed to be, on which board?
I disassembled the machine, extracted the 4 motherboards, I did not 
see any batteries anywhere.
If they are externalized, maybe I removed them a long time ago in the 
idea of replacing them, but I have not yet found where they were 
connected in that case.



On 28/07/2017 11:25, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
I do hope you get it going.  If you feel qualified, one thing I'd 
also look for are packs with batteries to hold information that may 
have decayed.  That sometimes can cause what you described.  since 
the system may have been left since 1999, the batteries may have gone 
onto corrosion and you may have a bit of fixing to do for that.

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Can you tell me where the batteries are supposed to be, on which board?
I disassembled the machine, extracted the 4 motherboards, I did not see 
any batteries anywhere.
If they are externalized, maybe I removed them a long time ago in the 
idea of replacing them, but I have not yet found where they were 
connected in that case.



On 28/07/2017 11:25, jim stephens via cctalk wrote:
I do hope you get it going.  If you feel qualified, one thing I'd also 
look for are packs with batteries to hold information that may have 
decayed.  That sometimes can cause what you described.  since the 
system may have been left since 1999, the batteries may have gone onto 
corrosion and you may have a bit of fixing to do for that.

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

On 28/07/2017 19:34, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 7/28/17 10:02 AM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk wrote:


Maybe I'm wrong, I always believed that the J3 connector was an RS-232 port. 
Here it is:

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/04.jpg

That also shows there is a firmware cartridge :-(



Is it specifically a bad thing from your point of view ? Why ? Do you 
think eproms could be damaged over the years?

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

> On 28/07/2017 13:56, Henk Gooijen via cctalk wrote:
> AFAIK, the UTS40 does not have a “standard” connection on it, like 
RS-232. But I could be wrong.  At the office they were connected to a 
comms concentrator, a DCP/40.


Maybe I'm wrong, I always believed that the J3 connector was an RS-232 
port. Here it is:


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/04.jpg

I also have the memory of a communication program under CP/M (maybe i'm 
also wrong) about communication, a souvenir of baud rate (or it was in 
the terminal mode ?). But perhaps for a synchronous connection only.


> Note that the auction does not show the UTS very specific keyboard !!

Fortunately the machine is complete! I still have the keyboard, the 
cables, the documentation, the floppy disks. I also have a UTS20D with 
the same keyboard.


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/03.jpg

> Dominique, if you ever want to get rid of your UTS40 setup and like 
to “donate” it to a good “retirement home”, let me know 
(www.pdp-11.nl ).


You have a very nice retirement home, bravo, however no, sorry ;-) You 
will understand that I am very attached to this good old fellow.


> However, you also need an SSP and EXEC (the propriatary OS), FURPUR 
and at least MASM-1100. Loved to program is assembler, but that’s an 
other story …


Except if I can finally also use that machine as a pure terminal (I 
think it would be even more fun to connect it on my DCC-116 than on a 
PC), if I can repair this computer, I probably will just use it as 
before, namely under this good old CP/M, write some stuff in BASIC as at 
the time of my 15 years ;-) However it should be great to find a way to 
import others CP/M compatible programs.


> Do you have any way to image the floppies for it?

I never had the opportunity to explore a way to transfer files or 
recreate a floppy disk from an image from my UTS. Finally I don't know 
anything about the exact filesystem for this machine, I know that there 
are ways to connect an 8-inch drive to a PC XT (for example), but on my 
subsystem the floppies are double sided, 8 sectors 1024 bytes, I think 
it's more than 1Mo per floppy DD. I don't remember if the subsystem read 
also the single sided floppies, maybe. The question is, 8-inch drive on 
XT ok but with which type of controller ?


Afterwards, was the formatting standardized between the CP/M machines of 
that generation with this kind of media ? I do not know, but the subject 
interests me.


> There are brochures and UTS 30 manuals on bitsavers under 
univac/terminals. I should have UTS 40 and 60 manuals scanned somewhere. 
I don't think I have any maintenance information but I think I have a 
few 8" CP/M disks somewhere.
> I think one of the people who designed it has popped up on vcfed.org 
but it isn't coming up in a search.

> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?49011-Sperry-UTS-30
> I bought one of the ebay ones to dump the firmware, would be nice if 
anyone else with UTS terminals/computers would do the same.


Thanks for all these information, I am not registered on the VCFED forum 
but I will remedy this.
About saving information, firmware, dump ROMs, I would do that, although 
I admit to be a little afraid to damage my ROMs, in the same time it 
would be the best guarantee to cure the UTS in the future.



To finish I take the opportunity to show you some pictures of my machine 
but that they date from today :


http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/01.jpg

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/02.jpg

Re: Sperry UTS 40 on Ebay - Statesboro, Georgia

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Oh, I have a Sperry Univac UTS 40 and its 8-inch floppy disk subsystem. 
I love this machine but it's been down for 15 years now. I suspect a 
simple PSU problem but it would be the opportunity to have possible rare 
parts.
However I reside in Belgium. I sent a mail to the seller to know his 
price for a shipment.


A photo of my dear beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/img/photos/24_big.jpg


On 27/07/2017 23:58, Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote:

No association with the seller, just passing the info on 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142458218680

Re: Unknown boards

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

This reminds me the 5 boards that were in the back of my Uniservo 10/14 
and which were the terminators (to put on the last tape drive connected 
to the main controller). Maybe these boards have a similar function?


On 16/06/2017 19:02, william degnan via cctech wrote:

I checked and they are no GE 4000 system boards.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 12:57 PM, Jon Elson via cctech <
cct...@classiccmp.org> wrote:


On 06/16/2017 09:31 AM, David Gesswein via cctech wrote:


 Can anyone identify these boards? Person I got them from can't
remember
anything about them.
http://www.pdp8online.com/ftp/misc/unknown_boards/

Date codes of 1964. Size 4.5"x3.25". Looks like used card edge for
keying but has separate 23 pin connector for electrical connection.
No useful markings I can see. Has card ## on the back.

Search by picture didn't find anything.

Thanks

They remind me of RCA bizmac boards, which are likely to be related to

GE, as that computer division changed hands a number of times.

The connectors are Elco Varilok.

Jon

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi all,

Sorry for this long wait. Because of some family problems combined with 
a big professional project I had to put this project on hold. However I 
intend to continue this restoration with detailed photos and all the 
continuation of the adventure with a lot of informations ;-)


Since my lasts posts on cctalk I received the schematics of a DG Nova 
1200, all the information I needed to repair the power supply are in 
this documentation. However it is a very complex system of voltage 
regulation and because I am not a professional electronics technician, I 
have not yet found the origin of the power loss that results in the 
state of "Power Fail" (To be precise : it is when the computer is 
populated with more than 2 or 3 boards. Any board).


It is also because i have not currently enough time to search the 
problem in "blind mode" : De-solder all the transistors to search and 
evaluate a possible leaking, replace all the suspect capacitor (just to 
replace the big ones it cost more than 200$) etc..


But be patient ;-) I'm determined to continue the adventure soon as 
possible.


Thanks for your interest !

Dominique


On 18/05/2017 05:29, AJ Palmgren wrote:

Dominique,

I'm quite interested in seeing your Entrex/Nixdorf system restored.  
Please keep us updated here.  Nice work saving these rare items!


I've done some of my own work restoring a DG Nova-type system.  ( 
http://Point4iris.com ). I'd love to see if there's any way I could help.


I'll read Christian Kennedy's response here, as he seems FAR more 
familiar and knowledgeable than I am here, but if I can add value in 
any way, I would love to.


Best,
-AJ

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


Hi guys !

My name is Dominique, 43 , from Belgium (I apologize in advance
for my approximate English). I join this forum under the
recommendations of Curious Marc. It seems there are people here
who can help me to get back to life the venerable machine that I
have just recovered.

Some pictures of the beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg>>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg>>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg>>

It is a "Nixdor 600 series" (Apparently a Nixdorf 620/35),
upgraded several times until 1980, the CPU board is dated from
this year. So I do not know exactly what machine it is today the
equivalent.

Anyway, the Nixdorf 620 is actually built by "Digital Computer
Controls" and after some researches it seems that it is a "DCC-116
E", the 17 slot version of the "DCC-116" which Is a clone of the
"Data General Nova 2/10".

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg>>

The machine has five Key-stations (ENTREX DATA/SCOPE), a Mag-tape
Pertec 8840A - A Disk Cartridge Diablo Model 40 and a big line
drum printer (Data Products model 2230), strange machine, there is
a tape reader inside the printer.

Here is the list of the boards I have with the references written
on them and their position in the machine:

*17HEX 0 – 15 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A*

*16HEX 16 30 31 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A**
15OPTION 2  Empty**
14OPTION 1  Empty**
13PRINTER   ENTREX INC SN598**
12TAPE 556/800 BPI 2433 LFI 213**
11TAPE 1600 BPI  Empty**
10DISK   2456 00 MP-Kontroller
D44an620 6393500215  2456 7 0 1577**
09COMMO Empty**
08SCANNER  Scanner BD 2431 NCAG 54147.1.15
2431 02394**
07MEM   1609 0 7 02616**
06MEM   Empty**
05MEM   1609 0 8 02367**
04MEM   1615 01 9 5596**
03TTY Emp

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi,

I saw this ad but the shipping costs until Belgium decided me to react 
as if I had not seen anything ^^


It's a pity, I would have taken a few boards.


On 18/05/2017 06:05, AJ Palmgren wrote:

My search for this was prompted by my seeing one on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282462822861

Did anyone here purchase it, or know who did?  Just curious, since 
these seem so rare and interesting.


Best,
-AJ

On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 8:29 PM, AJ Palmgren <microtechd...@gmail.com 
<mailto:microtechd...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Dominique,

I'm quite interested in seeing your Entrex/Nixdorf system
restored.  Please keep us updated here.  Nice work saving these
rare items!

I've done some of my own work restoring a DG Nova-type system.  (
http://Point4iris.com ).  I'd love to see if there's any way I
could help.

I'll read Christian Kennedy's response here, as he seems FAR more
familiar and knowledgeable than I am here, but if I can add value
in any way, I would love to.

Best,
-AJ

On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 12:33 PM, Dominique Carlier via cctalk
<cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:

Hi guys !

My name is Dominique, 43 , from Belgium (I apologize in
advance for my approximate English). I join this forum under
the recommendations of Curious Marc. It seems there are people
here who can help me to get back to life the venerable machine
that I have just recovered.

Some pictures of the beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg>>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg>>

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg>>

It is a "Nixdor 600 series" (Apparently a Nixdorf 620/35),
upgraded several times until 1980, the CPU board is dated from
this year. So I do not know exactly what machine it is today
the equivalent.

Anyway, the Nixdorf 620 is actually built by "Digital Computer
Controls" and after some researches it seems that it is a
"DCC-116 E", the 17 slot version of the "DCC-116" which Is a
clone of the "Data General Nova 2/10".

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg
<http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg>
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg
<http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg>>

The machine has five Key-stations (ENTREX DATA/SCOPE), a
Mag-tape Pertec 8840A - A Disk Cartridge Diablo Model 40 and a
big line drum printer (Data Products model 2230), strange
machine, there is a tape reader inside the printer.

Here is the list of the boards I have with the references
written on them and their position in the machine:

*17HEX 0 – 15 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002
REV A*

*16HEX 16 30 31 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A**
15OPTION 2  Empty**
14OPTION 1  Empty**
13PRINTER   ENTREX INC SN598**
12TAPE 556/800 BPI 2433 LFI 213**
11TAPE 1600 BPI  Empty**
10DISK   2456 00 MP-Kontroller
D44an620 6393500215  2456 7 0 1577**
09COMMO Empty**
08SCANNER  Scanner BD 2431 NCAG 54147.1.15
2431 02394**
07MEM   1609 0 7 02616**
06MEM   Empty**
05MEM   1609 0 8 02367**
04MEM   1615 01 9 5596**
03TTY Empty**
02DO NOT USE Empty**
01C.P.  1509 05 4 04436*

Concerning this I also ask a few questions:

 *

   What are the boards in slots 16 and 17 for?

 *

   I do not have a COM card, does that mean that I could not
attempt a
   serial transmission (type rs232) with this actual setup ?

  

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Many thanks for these detailed answers ! :)


Indeed, I finally do not know exactly what Nova my DCC is the clone. 
Another specialist suggested that it was rather a clone of NOVA 1200?


Note that in Nixdorf contracts for the 600 series, these machines were 
sometimes updated with a new CPU over the years of service.

In the doubt here are pictures of the board in slot 01 dedicated to the CPU:

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/cpu01.jpg

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/cpu02.jpg

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/cpu03.jpg

Do you have any idea what that is?

Concerning the PSU I will analyze your suggestions.

Concerning the memory, I analyzed more in detail, I think finally that 
all the memory is core type, 1 X 16KW (it is marked on it) and 2 X 8KW 
(according to the size of the core package in comparison with the 16KW 
board). Thus a total of 32KW.


For transmission via serial port, unfortunately I do not have this 
"basic board" in slot 3 (TTY), it's empty. Can we still find board like 
this?


Dominique


Er.  My DCC-116 is more a clone of the mapped Nova 840 than the Nova 2,
with the DCC/Keronix "64Kword" hack that gives up more than one level of
indirect memory reference in exchange for having 16, rather than 15,
bits of logical memory reference.

IIRC the functionality of the basic I/O board normally found in slot
three is subsumed into the CPU card of the DCC116, so you should be fine
as long as you can find the signals on the back of the machine.

It's a word oriented machine, so memory is sized in KW, not KB. You can
probably tell how big the boards are by looking at the physical address
jumpers; core boards were typically 8KW, MOS boards were typically 16 or
32KW, depending on vintage. Hint:  The more jumpers, the smaller the board.

I have no idea how this machine packages things, but in jumbo-chassis
Novas the lower PS generates five and 15 volt supplies, the top PS
generates only five.  The reason for this is that the 15 volt supply is
only used by core memory boards and the memory bus is only available in
the lower chassis.

Sounds like one of the +5V switchers is having issues.
+/-5V and +15V but not -15V should be regulated.  In the original DG
power supply both five and 15 volt supplies were derived from a common
+30V unregulated supply, but it's not clear that DCC followed that
model.  It may be helpful to know that the +15V supply is not regulated
to 15V but temperature compensated downward with increasing temperature,
such that at 55C it's closer to 14.4V; this is done to maintain margins
on the core planes. The consequence is that you're probably looking at
something having drifted in the voltage divider that feeds the voltage
comparator or something having drifted in the temperature compensation
stuff (if it's actually there) rather than a simple zener gone bad.

/POWER FAIL is asserted by the power supply itself, as is MEM OK.
It's a switcher; look at the caps in the LC filter (downstream of the
series pass transistor) that, together with the inductor, form the
energy storage mechanism of the power supply; check the source supply as
well.  The fact that it eventually comes back suggests that the
reference, comparator and pass device are probably functioning.


Should be, as long as the machine isn't running in extended logical
address mode (my DCC has a front panel switch to enable/disable this
feature).

Nice job on getting the machine to boot!
Cheers,
Chris

Re: DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

After the mess, ...

http://actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/mess01.jpg

... it was time to reorganize a cool place to continue this restoration :-)

http://actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/calm01.jpg

http://actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/calm02.jpg

Without the schematics of the two power supplies, I decided to follow 
the tracks on the printed circuits boards from the area where I measured 
the collapsed regulated 5vdc, I start to check the components and try to 
understand the problem alone, I decided to check the 5 big capacitors 
this one is a little bit high but OK


http://actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/capacheck2.jpg

YES ! I finally found a dead one, hourra!! :-)

http://actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/capacheck1.jpg

A 23000µf 15VDC used in the filtering of the regulated 5vdc, but... 
finally no, unfortunately ... it was not the source of the power fail :-/


Tomorrow I continue my investigation and I will check the big capacitors 
of the other power supply in charge of the 15V which is monitored and 
possibly also the cause of the error message.


Dominique

DCC-116 E / DATA GENERAL NOVA 2/10 / Nixdorf 620 - Restoring and restarting

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi guys !

My name is Dominique, 43 , from Belgium (I apologize in advance for my 
approximate English). I join this forum under the recommendations of 
Curious Marc. It seems there are people here who can help me to get back 
to life the venerable machine that I have just recovered.


Some pictures of the beast :

http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/overview01.jpg 



http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/terminal.jpg 



http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/comrack_closeup.jpg 



It is a "Nixdor 600 series" (Apparently a Nixdorf 620/35), upgraded 
several times until 1980, the CPU board is dated from this year. So I do 
not know exactly what machine it is today the equivalent.


Anyway, the Nixdorf 620 is actually built by "Digital Computer Controls" 
and after some researches it seems that it is a "DCC-116 E", the 17 slot 
version of the "DCC-116" which Is a clone of the "Data General Nova 2/10".


http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/DCC.jpg 



The machine has five Key-stations (ENTREX DATA/SCOPE), a Mag-tape Pertec 
8840A - A Disk Cartridge Diablo Model 40 and a big line drum printer 
(Data Products model 2230), strange machine, there is a tape reader 
inside the printer.


Here is the list of the boards I have with the references written on 
them and their position in the machine:


*17HEX 0 – 15 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A*

*16HEX 16 30 31 ENTREX INC 62 00 01842 002 REV A**
15OPTION 2  Empty**
14OPTION 1  Empty**
13PRINTER   ENTREX INC SN598**
12TAPE 556/800 BPI 2433 LFI 213**
11TAPE 1600 BPI  Empty**
10DISK   2456 00 MP-Kontroller D44an620 
6393500215 2456 7 0 1577**

09COMMO Empty**
08SCANNER  Scanner BD 2431 NCAG 54147.1.15 2431 02394**
07MEM   1609 0 7 02616**
06MEM   Empty**
05MEM   1609 0 8 02367**
04MEM   1615 01 9 5596**
03TTY Empty**
02DO NOT USE Empty**
01C.P.  1509 05 4 04436*

Concerning this I also ask a few questions:

 *

   What are the boards in slots 16 and 17 for?

 *

   I do not have a COM card, does that mean that I could not attempt a
   serial transmission (type rs232) with this actual setup ?

 *

   I have no idea how many kilobytes are present, apparently there are
   two core memory cards (8kb each? 16Kb each?), And non-core RAM board.

I first solved a problem with the power supply of the disk pack (bad HF 
filter, short-circuited with the chassis, then it is also dead HF filter 
in the "multi-plug" of the chassis that start to burn, once these 
problems were solved, I cleaned the machine thoroughly, cleaning the 
heads of readings with isopropyl alcohol, I Not yet cleaned the disc 
himself which at first glance looks extremely clean, it has not left the 
machine for 30 years.


http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/disckpack01.jpg 



I cleaned all the guides and the heads of the nine track tape Pertec 
8840A. There was also a false contact in the ON-LINE button. I did a 
first cleanup. I think there is always a problem with the HI-DEN button 
used to set the magtape to 800BPI. It is currently ineffective, but I 
have a doubt about the contacts of the lamp socket).


http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/ninetrack.jpg 



I then cleaned all the sockets and contacts at the boards of the 
computer (logic and PSU)


http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/clean_contact.jpg 




Unfortunately, after a couple of hours, the "POWER FAIL" light has 
started to light up. The problem here is that I have no schematics, it 
is a modular power supply consisting of two elements:


http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/psus.jpg 



One seems to be dedicated to the 15 VDC regulated, the second module is 
in charge of the regulated 5VDC. Both elements have a "Power fail 
module". When the machine is completely populated I now observe that the 
+ 5VDC collapses at +1,9VDC.


Here what I measured out, you will also see what the boards of these 
power supply look like.


http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_module_1.jpg 



http://www.actingmachines.com/classiccmp_forum/psu_module_2.jpg