Re: RE: [freenet-chat] Unable to retrieve newer keys.
W. Eric C. Ferguson wrote on 4/18/01 6:50 am: ># The maximum number of >hops to live to tolerate on >Requests the node passes. >This does not directly effect >your node, only the total >load on the network, so >there is no reason to change >it. maxHopsToLive=100 /me wonders why we even have that as an option. Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Freenet for PDAs?
I was actualy thinking about this recently. A PDA obviously can't run a node (even high end ones only have about 8 MB of storage space, save for a few very new and very expensive ones). The best way to handle this is through some sort of encrypted FCP connection (yes, I know FCP isn't normaly encrypted; in this case, it should be). The PDA should never read or write to inform (or, in the case of 0.4, it should never use node announcement). It will connect to a publicily available IP (this would preferably be the IP of the user's real node). Timm Murray Life is like a perl script: Really short and messy. - Original Message - From: "Aaron P Ingebrigtsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 11:04 PM Subject: [freenet-chat] Freenet for PDAs? > I was wondering if maybe we could make a version of freenet for PDAs. I > mean, they can transfer data useing an IR transmitter/reciever. Just > make it so that the PDA version can't try to store large files, only tiny > ones, like the size of about 157k or something. I mean, most of the > programs and documents that PDAs can handle these days are not very big. > You can't put a 60 meg file on a PDA. > > Make it so that when freenet is running on a PDA it is always actively > searching for an IR signal from any other freenet-enabled PDA. And it > would be great if it could run in the background so that you can do other > stuff with your PDA. :) > > The downside is that the PDA would have to be exposed constantly to the > outside world so that it can get line-of-site transmission. > > The upside is that you can easily equip internet or otherwise networked > desktop and laptop computers with IR ports and special add on software > that allows freenet to communicate with PDAs and other similarly equiped > machines. :) > > What do you think? > > Also, I'm thinking of dumping DBR entirely and going completely over to > VBR. Sure it might be a bit more clicking for users, but it frees me up > a LOT. Just recently our phone was disconnected because of these massive > long distance charges that hadn't been payed. UGH. Anyway, I very > easily could have been unable to update the DBR regularly enough to allow > users to get to my site. This would be bad. So I'm thinking I could > just create a splash2.html page that doesn't do DBR at all, only VBR, and > put that key on Steve's Key Server. This way people will be able to get > to my site and will never have to wait for a DBR that may or may not show > up. > > Tell me if you think users would be OK with that. If not, I guess users > will have to be on their own when I am unable to update regularly. > > I will still update all my files weekly though. > > Also, I want to come up with some kind of reward system for those who > choose to donate $1 to me, or more. I was thinking of makeing it so that > they can get rid of the ads on my site, but only after they have donated > at least $1. This way perhaps I can get some money, and please some > users at the same time. Kind of like selling something I guess. Selling > the right to no ads. :) > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Attn - all freenet site authors - grab your FreeWeb domains now!
David McNab wrote on 4/29/01 5:30 pm: >From: "Ian Clarke" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED] >rg> > >Thanks for your questions, >Ian. >Please take the time to >digest my response. > >>I have some concerns over >this approach. What is >required for someone to >>access FreeWeb? I get the >impression that it: >>* Is Windows only > >I've had reports of it working >in Linux under Wine. But >that's not an excuse. >I have only recently learned >some of the basics of >Windows GUI programming, >and know nothing about >native Linux GUI. To run >there, much or most of it will >need to be re-written for >(say) KDE or Gnome. You'll >note from the website >(http://freeweb.sourceforg >e.net) that I'm inviting >experienced KDE and Mac >programmers. OK, I knew I would have to learn GTK++ at some point, so it might as well be now. That will get anyone with GTK++ installed working with it (including people running KDE and even some Windows and Mac users (I think)). Question: Did you seperate presentation and functionality like a good OO designer? Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Attn - all freenet site authors - grab your FreeWeb domains now!
- Original Message - From: "David McNab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Attn - all freenet site authors - grab your FreeWeb domains now! > > Question: Did you seperate presentation and functionality > > like a good OO designer? > > To a fair extent, yes. I've given it a try. > But after a 7 year break from programming, I've only recently started > converting my thinking from structured design/programming to OO, and > switching from C to C++, so while I've tried to achieve a reasonable level > of encapsulation, you will inevitably find faults with the design. > > For instance, classes don't follow a strict hierarchy - they tend to invoke > each other willy-nilly. This is probably sacrilegous to OO purists. Don't worry, I'm hardly an OO purist. Also, GTK+ is basicly all written in plain C, but is still very object oreinted, which is good. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] JRE License
Mark J. Roberts wrote on 5/1/01 9:42 pm: >Yeah, I know that. I was >commenting on your double >standard, where it's >acceptable for users of your >software to waive their right >to sue you for damages, but >"totally reckless and stupid" >for Sun's users to do the >same. I think the diffrence is Large Corperation vs. small developer. The large corperation can afford to take a few damages, but the small developer cannot. If I'm buying a car from an individual, I expect that the guy won't help me fix it should something go wrong. Maybe if he's a nice guy he'll tell me if he knows something is wrong with the car, and he'll fix it if it acts up, but thats the extent of it. OTOH, if I buy from a dealership, I expect some sort of warrenty. Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Hammity ham ham
After reading some of the recent posts about setting up a wide-area wireless network, I remembered an article in 2600 called 'Broadband via the Earth'. This was in the Summer 1999 (Vol. 16, No. 2) issue, on page 16. I tried to research some of the ideas in the article after I first read it, without succsess. Apparently, in 1899, Nikola Tesla figured out how to transmit power through the earth, and was able to do so for several miles. In WWI, the French used such a system for field-phone communication. In WWII, hams were denied from operating in the US over radio waves, so they used earth-based communication instead. In 'Modern Communications Magazine' (Sept. 1990), there was an article about how to make a voice communications system similar to what the French had in WWI. (I was unable to find any mention of that magazine in my research). Having a new network work through this would be tremendous. A few considerations: --Noise. You've got cable TV, telephone, electrical wires, and who knows what else running through the ground. Any such network would need major error corecting. --Privacy. The Germans were able to easily evesdrop on French communications using such a system. You need good use of encryption to ensure privacy. --Bandwidth/Range. Probably depends on the composition of the earth and noise. Bandwidth should at least match a 56Kinda modem. I suggest not using IP for this network. If done properly, I think 'earthnet' could be much more distributed then the Internet could ever hope to be (because you have roughly equal bandwidth at all points). I don't think IP would be well suited to the task, or at least net IPv4. Perhaps IPv6 would work better (slightly hacked, maybe). Thoughts? Comments? Flame-fest? Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Hammity ham ham
Leo Howell wrote on 5/6/01 2:25 am: >Sounds a promising system >though - I can't see how >discharging energy into the >ground could be objected to >by even the wierdest >government. And if governments worked on logic, I would agree. But these days, nothing seems too shocking. Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Best flavour of Linux?
David McNab wrote on 5/6/01 3:19 pm: >Can someone please >recommend the best Linux >or Linuces for Freenet, and >in general. (intel platform). Debian. Not the easiest for initial setup, but you'll thank yourself later because your problems with package dependencies are greatly reduced. > >(I tried installing Mandrake >8.0, but it's got some serious >gaps - I sense I could be >hacking the kernel for >months to get all my devices >recognised). I don't know about 8.0, but 7.2 was the most broken distro I've seen. It did have good driver support, though. Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Remuneration for artists via Freenet...etc.
David McNab wrote on 5/6/01 4:23 pm: >> Considering: Done! Results: >fuckem! > >These posts are on public >record and could be >admissible in court. Which is as good a reason for censorship as any. Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Legal vulnerabilities (was: JRE License)
- Original Message - From: "Aaron P Ingebrigtsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:46 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Legal vulnerabilities (was: JRE License) > > On Wed, 2 May 2001 14:42:17 -0400 (EDT) "Mark J. Roberts" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Wed, 2 May 2001, Aaron P Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > > > > Forceing stupid people to not do stupid things isn't going to > > work. > > > Forcing people to do what some bigshot thinks is smart isn't going > > to > > > work either. Just leave everyone alone!! > > > > And you supported Nader? > > I have a very poor memory, I can't remember much of anything about Nader > and I don't know if his site is still up. > If he is trying to force people to do things, or not do things, when they > aren't hurting anyone else, or the environment, but I guess I don't > support him. But I sure as HELL don't support Bush!! I could KILL the > SOB if I had the ability and lack of morals required for murder. Congradulations! You just got on the Secret Service's Special List. Welcome to the club. Timm Murray Life is like a perl script: Really short and messy. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] RE: I've designed a global file system, it will obsolete NFS, Gnutella, etc. I want to be assimilated by freenet!
Ian Clarke wrote on 5/13/01 5:29 pm: <> >> The open source >community has helped to >create Microsoft, they take >your work, and add it to >their own. Clearly violating >the GNU license. And they >don't even respond in kind. > >I am not aware of any >evidence that Microsoft has >taken GPL code and >redistributed it under a >different license - can you >point me to some? There was a rumor that the reason Win2000 is so stable is because they used Linux source, but I don't beleive it. <> >Software patents have no >place in an Open Source >project. I'm not so sure. Using patents to defend your ideas from harm is not an abuse. I would have no problem with a patent that says 'you can use this idea as long as the finished product is under the GPL'. Timm Murray --- Theory is when you know how it works, but fails. Practice is when something works, but you don't know why. Here, Theory and Practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] EFF Seeks Examples Of Legit P2P Use
Yes, I've already sent them the info on how to use apt-get over Freenet. Timm Murray Life is like a perl script: Really short and messy. - Original Message - From: "Dev Random" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 10:23 AM Subject: [freenet-chat] EFF Seeks Examples Of Legit P2P Use > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/17/2023208 > > -- > Dev Random > Fingerprint: 3ABC FCEF 1BCE 4528 E4FD 15EB 173A 76D2 6959 DAF1 > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Can you help me?
There is a Mpeg layer 4 (it covers compressing both audio AND video, IIRC), but I think the orginal poster ment MP3 Timm Murray Life is like a perl script: Really short and messy. - Original Message - From: Aaron P Ingebrigtsen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Can you help me? Uhm, I don't know much about programming, and I wasn't aware that there was such a thing as Mpeg Layer 4. Do you mean MP3? I don't have any source code for any MP3 players. On Sat, 12 May 2001 06:57:16 +0700 "Dinh Nguyen huy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm a student in Vietnam. I want to programming to play mp4 format files. Can you help me about this ? Can you send me or talk me a url to download a source of mp4 player ? I'm programming with VB6. Please reply me soon. Thank you, Tran Quang Huy ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: I've designed a global file system, it will obsolete NFS, Gnutella, etc. I want to be assimilated by freenet!
I don't think it would be too hard to make a virtual file system that sits above the kernel and reads in a file as the file system. The hard part is integrating it into current file system utilities; you would have to rewrite any application that interfaces with the disk to use your VFS instead. This might mean screwing with some libraries to change certain functions from using the kernel level functions to your VFS functions. If you're going to that much troubble, you might just be better off trying to get the file system dev kit from Microsoft. OTOH, if your file system is for a specific application (such as FreenetFS), then you don't have to bother. Timm Murray Life is like a perl script: Really short and messy. - Original Message - From: "David McNab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Re: I've designed a global file system, it will obsolete NFS, Gnutella, etc. I want to be assimilated by freenet! > Personally, I feel it's highly viable and desirable to implement a Windows > virtual disk that interfaces with Freenet. I think Aaron was flamed most > unfairly. > > There's already a million and one Windows vdrives - for instance, PGPdisk, > 1disk, Virtual CD, X-drive (as you mentioned) etc etc. I expect that all the > tech literature for implementing virtual drives is readily available on the > M$ developer site http://msdn.microsoft.com You certainly don't need any > 'windows source code'. > > For the idea to fly, there would need to be a coherent scheme for mapping > Freenet keys into the hierarchy of folders and files which Windows expects > from a disk driver. Also, Windows expects the driver to already know what > files are already there. > > This collides with Freenet in that with Freenet, there's no automatic way of > knowing what 'files' are there already. One would need an easy way of adding > 'files' to this 'virtual drive'. The virtual drive would need some nice > mechanisms, like spiders for in-freenet and web-based key indexes, or at the > very least, a cute drag-n-drop which converts FProxy URLs into formal > freenet key URIs. > > One thing on the side of Aaron's proposal is that all the base-64 characters > used in keys, plus the '@', are legal characters in Windows filenames. '/' > is illegal, but it can be used as a directory delimiter. > > For instance, if the vdrive is notified of a key SSK@we~1iE/fred, then the > vdrive would represent this as a 'folder' called 'SSK@we~1iE', containing a > 'file' called 'fred'. A 'properties' dialog could allow the user to annotate > the key with a human-readable keyword. > > Similarly, if adding an MSK, then the vdrive could read the manifest, and > create a tree of folders and files based on the files in the MSK manifest. > > I do like the idea, because a vdrive could be a very sensible way of > maintaining a collection of keys. Each key that's retrieved could be > 'cached' in the vdrive, so it only needs to be retrieved once (unless it's a > date redirect, in which case it would need to be retrieved each time). > > My Windows programming skills are still pretty basic, and I've got my hands > full upgrading FreeWeb into an easier and better version but, if or when I > get time, I'll look into Windows vdrive implementation. > > Cheers > David > > - Original Message - > From: "Aaron P Ingebrigtsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 11:40 AM > Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Re: I've designed a global file system, it will > obsolete NFS, Gnutella, etc. I want to be assimilated by freenet! > > > > > > On Thu, 17 May 2001 19:19:47 -0400 Greg Wooledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > writes: > > > Aaron P Ingebrigtsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > > > > I personaly would really like some kind of Windows Explorer > > > extension for > > > > freenet that makes windows think that freenet is some kind of CD-R > > > drive > > > > or something, you know, write once, read only media. > > > > > > That would be useful. Now, get the Windows kernel source code and > > > write > > > up a nice little FreenetFS driver. Why don't you ask Billy Gates > > > for the > > > source? I've heard he's a really nice guy, and he's sure to lend > > > you a > > > hand. > > > > Hey, I keep telling everyone I'm not much of a programmer. W
Re:[freenet-chat] Slow + broken links
> Is it me or is Freenet very slow? And many of the keys don't work. Lots of > > Is this performance a Java issue? Or is it the nature of > encrypting/decrypting? Theory is when you know everything, but nothing works. Practice is when everything works, but nobody knows why. In here, theory and practice come together. Nothing works, and nobody knows why. --- Runbox Mail Manager - www.runbox.com Free online email application ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [FreeNet-chat] Yet another damn 'permanence' proposal
MojoNation does it through centralized servers that keep track of the "mojo" being given out. If you can figure out a way to do the same thing in a decentralized way, it might just be put into Freenet (maybe). McMeikan, Andrew wrote: > could not accounting be worked in at some stage so that users can 'buy' > storage? > > If MojoNation can do it why not FreeNet. I would love to see a FreeNet bank > so this sort of thing could be done. > > cya,Andrew... > >> -Original Message- >> From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >> Sent:Thursday, May 24, 2001 1:46 PM >> To: Ian Clarke >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Yet another damn 'permanence' proposal >> >> so what is wrong with that? >> >> On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:24:56PM -0700, Ian Clarke wrote: >> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 01:34:22PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> why not add a property to every key that says: pls do not remove me from your cache unless you 1st try to republish me to freenet? >>> >>> Because then a file would never get deleted, and the network would >>> simply fill up. >>> >>> Ian. >> >> >> >> ___ >> Chat mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Yet another damn 'permanence' proposal
Where do you plan on putting new data? In the full datastore? I guess we'd have to delete something in there to make room . . . oh, Freenet already does that. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > so what is wrong with that? > > On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 04:24:56PM -0700, Ian Clarke wrote: > >> On Sat, May 19, 2001 at 01:34:22PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> why not add a property to every key that says: pls do not remove me >>> from your cache unless you 1st try to republish me to freenet? >> >> Because then a file would never get deleted, and the network would >> simply fill up. >> >> Ian. > > > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: CPRM in BIOS
David McNab wrote: > From: "Seth Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> http://www.slashdot.org/yro/01/02/23/2134255.shtml >> http://pcsupport.about.com/compute/pcsupport/library/weekly/aa030101a.htm >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/17230.html > > > Looks like the copy protection 'arms race' is set to flare up like never > before. > > The copy-protection advocates, like IBM, 4C, BSA, RIAA etc will do > everything in their power and bloated budgets to lull the consumer into 'pay > per view', and accepting all levels of privacy violation and suppression of > intellectual freedom. > > Thank goodness that universities, as opposed to (say) cable companies, > masterminded the birth of the internet. Their legacy of freedom of > information will prove hard to defeat, but the 'information capitalists' are > determined and extremely well funded. It's going to be one helluva fight. > > I can envisage future versions of Windows which will firewall any > non-standard internet traffic (blocking protocols not approved by M$, > including Freenet), and which will require constant phoning home to > Micro$oft to keep tabs on users. > > I can also see a heavy thrust towards 'web-ware', software which will simply > not run without the cooperation of central servers. > > The first step in this is the new Windows XP and Office XP, which shut down > unless they are 'activated' via phoning home to M$. Soon, the only operating > system available with new computers will be XP. (I bet the cracking scene > has already found a workaround to this:) ) > > I guess the key to victory here is to make all efforts to keep the public > suspicious of the content industry - a process of education, from the > grassroots level of telling all one's friends and acquaintances, through to > larger-scale activism. Encouraging people to switch to Linux and free > software in general. > > Optimistically, though, I can see Linux becoming so user-friendly that it > will ultimately emerge as the operating system of choice, with the majority > of PC buyers saying no to windows and promptly installing linux. Mandrake is > a leader in usable linux, with their 8.0 version delivering a class act in > ease of installation and usage. Not *too* far to go before Linux is truly > fit for mass consumption - 18 months perhaps? My personal opinion is that Mandrake is a broken, broken distro. It is easy to use, though. And my opinion stems from personaly using ver. 7.2, so perhaps 8.0 has gotten better. The biggest problem with getting a GNU/Linux for the masses is being able to walk into a store like Best Buy or CompUSA, see a box running GNU/Linux, and take it home. The hard part of GNU/Linux is just setting it up; after that, it just works. Your Aunt Louise probably couldn't even set up Windows from a bare hard disk, so why would we expect her to be able to set up GNU/Linux. Once I see GNU/Linux boxes sitting on the shelf at Best Buy, I will know that we have won. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Freenet & MojoNation
On Sunday 27 May 2001 00:06, Sam Joseph said: > It seems to me that with Freenet that you are deciding that anything > digitizable is a valid opinion. Because thats the only way the Internet allows us to define it. We can't look at everything and say "this infringes on somebody's rights, you can't post it". The Napster decision says that if you have any ability WHAT SO EVER to stop things from be posted, then you must use it to censor works that some groups don't like. You can either have complete control or complete anarchy. In Freenet, we prefer complete anarchy. >You are still drawing a line. Freedom > of Speech as is gets defined as something you can actually say (okay > maybe you could read out a UUecoded gif, but hey ). Why stop at > digitizable stuff. Why isn't the distribution of physical objects part > of my freedom of expression, Because physical objects can't (yet) be infinately reproduced. Once we have matter replicators, then physical objects should have the same rules applied to it as digital information. >couldn't we say that me delivering a live > sheep to your house should be incorporated into my freedom of > expression, my right to express my opinion. Remeber that one of the central arguments for Freedom of Expression is that people are smart enough to figure out on their own what is good for them and what they would prefer not to see. Choosing not to listen to certain music because it expresses ideas you don't like is not censorship. OTOH, stoping the artist from making their music in the first place so that no one can listen to it is censorship. So, stoping you from delivering a live sheep to my house is not censorship. I can tell you to go away without being a hypocrit. OTOH, stoping you from delivering that sheep to my neighbor's house is censorship. I don't know, maybe they'll love to have a sheep around the house. Timm Murray -- . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Freenet & MojoNation
On Sunday 27 May 2001 18:59, Sam Joseph said: > Ian Clarke wrote: > > How exactly can one person transferring information to a willing > > recipient for that information, hurt anyone else? And I want a strict > > > > causal link (recall that the arguments against homosexuality, for > > example, often revoloved around the act of buggery "offending God", > > the > > > same is true of the Spanish Inquisition, and most other opressive > > acts). > > Think about the other example in my previous mail. If you send an image > of me being brutally raped to somebody who gets off on looking at that > kind of thing, then you are hurting me. Maybe you can say that I > shouldn't care, but you can't tell me that you are not hurting me. > > What happens to my right to not have those kinds of images of myself > shown to other people? > > Think about the situation where someone gets images of me without my > permission, and distributes them ... We always knew Freenet would be used for generaly evil things, like child pornography. It's simply inevitable being that there are people around who create and consume that kind of information, and not making Freenet would not stop them. We simply hope that any such abuse of Freenet is far outweighed by the potential ammount of good it can bring. If you don't think the good in Freenet will outweigh the bad, don't use it (which you apparently have already done). -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Freenet & MojoNation
some country with a name like "Jiowkshstan": OUCH, please, I don't want liberty! Me: You will have liberty or you will die *WACK* > Now don't get me wrong, I repeat, don't > get me wrong. I personally think that free speech (although not > necessarily the anonymous part) is a very good thing, it's just that you > are setting yourselves up for confrontation with a lot of cultures that > may just go around and prevent people from running Freenet nodes at all, > what does that solve? You are taking on a confrontational stance, that > invites confrontation. Now confronting a bunch of evil tyrannts, thats a great image. > > Seems to me that the purpose of free speech, basic human rights and so > forth is better served by discussing ideas with people rather than > creating secure channels of anonymous file distribution. How can we discuss it (safely) without a secure, anonymous channel? -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Anarcast!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 29 May 2001 03:04, Aaron P Ingebrigtsen said: <> > I will test it, but I would like it better if such a thing were > implemented in freenet. That wasn't the point. This is ment to be a simple network that can be hacked together in an afternoon or two. Freenet is really complicated (just look at Whiterose development) and doesn't serve that goal well. - -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7E7II9FVoObiUQx8RAs+jAKC7XF+CAKQYUxYEzoz4BtTp9asexgCgnEiU SvdCOSl2WajitekFU628gvw= =B2wZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] PGP signatures
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 29 May 2001 07:18, Aaron Guy Davies said: > On Mon, 28 May 2001, Aaron P Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > On Sat, 26 May 2001 14:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Aaron Guy Davies > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > You obviously still don't understand PGP. Please go read the manual. > > > > I understand PGP pretty well, it is the GnuPG program I don't understand. > > > > The files I was talking about were generated by PGP, not made up by my > > imagination. Also, I figured out that .sig files are detached signatures > > and require the file to which they were signed in order for them to > > decrypt properly or whatever. So if you don't have krepat.txt which > > contains only the text "hello" then you would get some kind of error. > > The .asc file though is the text file AND signature, which is really what > > I wanted in the first place. :) > > The point is that PGP *signatures* have nothing to do with encryption, and > are only useful in conjunction with the document they were generated from. > A signature is basically a secure hash of the document it signs, verifying > that the document has not been changed since it was signed. <> IIRC, a signature is a hash of the document, then encrypted by the private key, which can then be decrypted by the public key. Normaly, you would encrypt with the public and decrypt with the private. So, yes, it does do encryption. It's just not of a kind which is useful for hiding information from those that aren't supposed to have it. - -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7E7Mv9FVoObiUQx8RAiEIAJ40+4fc03fLBOWBVzo6bRj3N2phsACg1Pc7 hr5E3++6KMn1qBRtf0E/BlI= =jjGX -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Anarcast!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 29 May 2001 04:02, David McNab said: > > Erm... I think I must ilustrate myself before use my keyboard... Is there > > in > > > FreeNet something as a centralized server?? So please, can you give me > > some > > > URL for my own information? > > The basic problem is when a Freenet node comes online, how does it know > where the other nodes are? > > This mode must use 'out of band' - non-freenet - means of finding at least > one other Freenet node. > > Presently, Freenet is using a temporary scheme of 'discovering' other > nodes - it calls up a page on a web server, whose address is hardwired into > the node. That page lists a small number of other nodes' IP addresses, > selected at random from the nodes presently online > > The vulnerability of this scheme is certainly not news. But as I > understand, plans are in place to eliminate all dependence on this central > server discovery process. Yes, through a much more scalable node announcement system. You'll still need to know the address of one node, though, just as you need the address of single news server before you can post to USENET. - -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7E7Fm9FVoObiUQx8RApaCAJ0Weped3G/c3o023EyrFweCnOMuQQCeNQ+b BwgIezeskGqwiaqT5apYzC8= =lTok -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Anarcast!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 29 May 2001 02:46, Francisco M. Marzoa Alonso said: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Mark, how do you do? > > On Monday 28 May 2001 21:05, you wrote: > > So I was bored and I came up with a simple p2p network idea. Here it is. > > > > A network consists of nodes and a central inform server. When a node > > starts it registers with the inform server. > > I think a central server seems breaks the idea of a peer-to-peer network. Not true, if it's for one specific task and no more. Thats what Mark is doing here. His inform server works just like the inform.php system in the current Freenet. Mark's not designing this network for anonymity in mind, just simplicity. After all, Napster has a central server. So does MojoNation, IIRC. When I was first talking to Mark about it on IRC, I was hoping it could be used as a replacement for Windows networking or NFS or whatever else is used for file sharing. Mark thought that was boaring, but it would have helped me out a lot at my last job. - -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobious. This sentance is an example of a mobious. This sentance is an . . . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7E6589FVoObiUQx8RAs/fAKC197qI3HTtqq358zWev6gLIjGqxwCgwrJq U/rO/ASgQYEblx7QG41M9Dk= =pMxr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Anarcast!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 30 May 2001 12:44, Aaron P Ingebrigtsen said: > Freenet uses an inform server to inform nodes about each other. This > should be replaced by something that can't be attacked, but, I don't know > what. There is an option to turn off inform read/write in the settings > for freenet, and I think you can tell it to look at a file full of node > addresses. 0.4 will be getting rid of inform.php and replacing it with a more scaleable in-freenet alternative. You will need the address of at least one node that you trust before you can enter the network (just as you need the address of a news server before you can post on USENET). Note that this may not appear in the first version. - -- Timm Murray . . . example of a mobius. This sentence is an example of a mobius. This sentence is an . . . -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7Fm9n9FVoObiUQx8RAjdhAKCamvCAIOPbFPnSbEVvxKM6ZQmWsgCfQc7T bBchbRnbpUJLkmxCwoNls4c= =6hmn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] Re: Intel Freenet
[Crossposting to chat, where this belongs] - Original Message - From: Jamie Morken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 7:47 PM Subject: [freenet-devl] Re: Intel Freenet > Hi all, > > >You should also note that Ian's been very good about keeping Uprizer > and the Freenet Project as very, very separate entities. If you have a > question about the terms of Intel's investment in Uprizer, I'd suggest > you call or email them. I'd be greatly surprised if they wanted to > reveal their contractual obligations to you, a third party, but you're > welcome to try. > > Well Mr. Bad I think that it is important to minimize corporate influence in > an opensource project which advocates freedom. I find it interesting that > freenet is advocating free speech while Intel is building a company for the > Freenet project leader. Once the code is in the hands of Uprizer/Intel does > it no longer advocate free speech and is it no longer opensource? If I read this interview correctly (http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/05/05/uprizer.html), Uprizer is only doing things tangently related to Freenet (basicly, the Freenet we all know and love without the anonymity requirement, which would cause a great boost in efficency). Uprizer has done some things to help the core Freenet development in the past (such as hosting the mailing lists), but as Mr. Bad points out, Uprizer and the Freenet Project, Inc. non-profit are seperate entities, and Ian has been very good about keeping it that way. What Uprizer does is their own buissness, and frankly, we are not obligated to them in any way. > Will > Intel "contractual obligation" additions to the code be made public? Maybe > you don't recall Intel's history of putting unique identifiers into its PIII > processors but I do! :) That was bad, and they did back down once enough pressure was placed on them. Note that at the same time, they added a hardware random number generator to their chipsets, which could be a massive boost for cryptographic applications. AFAIK, AMD has not added any such ability to their chips. (Even so, my last major upgrade was to an AMD, and my next one probably will be, too). ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Finding a key on your node
This won't work anymore. I believe that sometime in the 0.3 series, a probablistic decrement on the htl was added (meaning there is a certain chance that the htl won't be reduced and thus the message will be passed on to another node). I don't remeber when this was added (or even if it was added at all into 0.3, but I'm pretty sure it was. I need keep up with whats going on in CVS better). - Original Message - From: "Stefan Reich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Finding a key on your node > Yes, that is very easy to do. You don't even need to look 'inside' your > node; just say > >frequest -htl 1 KSK@company/topsecret > > That particular company won't gain a lot though, even if they manage to > have many node operators delete that file - if the content is > interesting in any way, there will be many many other nodes holding the > data too. > > -Stefan > > Chad Phillips wrote: > > >I have read the docs on how freenet works, but I am still a little unclear > >on one thing. You shouldn't be able tell what is stored on your node > >because everything is hashed. > > > >Is it possible to easily find out if a specific key is on your node. Say > >company x calls you and says file "top secret" has been floating around > >freenet. Its key is KSK@company/topsecret, please check and see if this key > >is on your node and remove it. > > > >Would this be possible? > > > >thanks > >chad > > > > > >___ > >Chat mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > > > > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Apt-get article
Pinging Mr. Bad, but open to anybody to respond: I'm just finishing an article on using apt-get over Freenet for the Linux Journal, and my Don Marti wanted me to include information about how well Freenet currently works on Kaffe. IIRC, it'll work with a patched Kaffe, but the Debian Kaffe maintainer has refused to apply this patch to the Debian package. Some people have seemed to be able to get Freenet to work with Kaffe without the patch (which seems impossible and I wonder if their nodes truely work or if they're practicly transient). AFAIK, a latest CVS version of Kaffe will also work. I remeber seeing a server set up at one time that hosted the Freenet and a working Kaffe package in a directory structure that could be used by apt-get. Does this still exist, and if so, where is it? Also, where can you get the patch for the stable Kaffe version? Thanks! ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Apt-get article
- Original Message - From: "Mr.Bad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Apt-get article > >>>>> "TM" == Timm Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > TM> Pinging Mr. Bad, but open to anybody to respond: I'm just > TM> finishing an article on using apt-get over Freenet for the > TM> Linux Journal, and my Don Marti wanted me to include > > > Don Marti belongs to all of us equally. heh, I love typos my. > > TM> information about how well Freenet currently works on Kaffe. > > The current version of Kaffe in sid (unstable), 1.0.6-1.2, has the > Freenet patches applied. I have some hacked .debs of Kaffe for potato > here: > > http://evan.prodromou.san-francisco.ca.us/freenetdeb/ > > I use both on two different nodes and they work fine. OK, thanks a lot. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] peep
We're having a flame-fest on -devl about node announcement in 0.4, which happens to be an on-topic discussion and has thus not moved to -chat. - Original Message - From: "Stuart Horner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 5:14 PM Subject: [freenet-chat] peep > Seems quiet in here. Anyone know what the ETA of .4 is? > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Please archive 0.3 content
0.4 is incompatible with 0.3. Even if there weren't good design decisions for doing so (which there are), I still think 0.4 should be incompatible with 0.3 just for the sake of starting with a fresh network. 0.3 sucks. Let it die. - Original Message - From: "John Goerzen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Please archive 0.3 content > John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > As an addendum, if 0.4 can speak to an 0.3 node, could people just > keep up the 0.3 nodes for queries until they get cached by 0.4? > > > > "David McNab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > >> With freenet 0.3 soon to cease, and freenet 0.4 coming in like a Concorde, > >> we urgently need to archive as much of the 0.3 freenet content as possible, > >> especially all those loose CHKs and KSKs. > > > > Why is it that this needs to be done? Why cannot Freenet 0.4 remain > > compatible with existing content? > > > > -- John > > > > ___ > > Chat mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > -- > John Goerzen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> www.complete.org > #include GnuPG key 0x8A1D9A1F from www.complete.org/key > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] RE: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS
- Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'toad'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:41 PM Subject: [freenet-chat] RE: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > You need to read the UNI ID design. Tell me how they are going to get > somebody's info. > > All it stores is an incomplete credit card number, and an email address. > They can give a hotmail address, and execute their warrants on visa and > mastercard. They will need to do brute force. Repition for emphisis: If you have any control at all, you will be forced into having complete control. You can either have complete control or complete anarchy. The Napster decision allows for nothing in between. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS
Call it whatever you want, just not "Open Source" and definatly not "Free Software". "Managed Source" sounds a lot like "Shared Source". (Sorry aboutt the previous messages to devl; I'm putting all further messages on chat). - Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 8:44 PM Subject: RE: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > Theres a difference between a simple license and the technology. And > besides, when I'm done with it, it will not look the GPL at all. And I did > ask for permission, and they didn't respond. So there you have it. There's > many other licenses out there to choose from. I'm currently looking at the > Mozilla license, because I like it better. > > So I used the wrong words. What should I call it? "managed open source" > "community open source" "my open source"? I have a design to write, not > licenses. What do you wall want to call it? Since this is a big issue for > all of you, you can all rename it to your liking. > > As for the SS, if they call us and say that they president is going to get > shot, and somehow a UNI ID is involved, do you expect me to not work with > them? Give me a break. Welcome to reality. There is no way ANY global file > system can operate without having to work with law enforcement. They have > the most to loose by taking advantage of us, because if they do, they will > get denied. Then the next time there is a threat to the president, they will > be sorry. You guys don't understand the difference between protective > services and general law enforcement. > > I'm not going to hire some young attorney right out of the ACLU to accept > the court orders and answer the phone when the SS call. I'm going to hire 2 > old clients of mine, ones a cop, the other is a retired SS agent. They are > both good people, know the law, and have over 20 years experience with these > issues. > I'd trust most experienced cops with those issues before inexperienced > computer whizs. > > Speaking of words, do any of you know what the original "freenet" was? > Understand, I'm not saying you don't. > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > On Behalf Of Rob Cakebread > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 6:34 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > > On Tuesday 24 July 2001 05:46 pm, you wrote: > > Is that all you have to say? A terminology issue? > > Open source is a method, not a religion. > > > Funny how you have a problem with people stealing intellectual property but > it was ok to steal the GPL, re-word it. and use it without the EFF's > permission. > > I think you have it right on the front page: 'nearly free'. If you changed > all the references in the license from 'open source' to 'nearly free' we > wouldn't be laughing at you. > > This is my favorite terminology: > > "17. You may not use MFS and/or UNI ID to threaten a life, violate national > security, sell drugs, distribute child porn, blah blah blah." > > Blah blah blah. > > There is no Open Source license that by any stretch of the imagination > can be compared to your restrictive license. > > Oh brother. And this from your 'dream' manifesto: > > "Uniformity via management of the global MFS standards: > Patents > Trademarks > Open source public license, similar to GNU public license. > You can't steal something that's free. > > The GPL is free, but it is also copyrighted and you ripped it off because > the EFF didn't respond within your time frame. Are we free of MerfucryFS' > license if you don't respond when we want you to? > > We might not steal your software, but you say you will sue us for > blah blah blahing with it. > > Sweet Jesus. I'm not making this part up. It's in his dream: > http://www.mercuryfs.net/the_dream.htm > > "I intend to hire retired cops and SS personnel, the public will trust > them. > They understand law, and the balance of the peoples rights and individual > rights." > > > > > There is no reason why I can't do both to accomplish my goals. Go to > > www.mercuryfs.net/license.htm for the current version. If you read the > > license, you will probably find that it satisfies your requirements. > > > > Remember, my goal is for a unified single standard. That will take a bit > of > > management to achieve. > > I would be a real shame to pass us by because of terminology. > > > > If so, o-well. I tried. > > > > - josh > > > > PS: just because you have no respect for intellectual property doesn't > mean > > you should attempt to force this method onto others. If you don't want to > > talk, that's fine. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > On Behalf Of Ian Clarke > > Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 5:42 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > > > > << File: ATT8.dat >> http://www.mercuryfs.net/ > > > > This guy claims that it is P2P, open source *and* patent pending. > > sounds li
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS
- Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:09 PM Subject: RE: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > Shareware! That may be a better title. It will be open source > shareware...??? > > It's really a management issue: I want to advantages of open source, with > the advantages of management, and I'm convinced I can do it because others > have. Did you know thats exactly what Microsoft wants with "shared source"? ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS
Yes, I'm sorry. I hadn't read too far down in my e-mail when I sent that off. I've already started posting all further things on this subject to the chat list. - Original Message - From: "Oskar Sandberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > PLEASE! Elsewhere. > > On Wed, Jul 25, 2001 at 10:18:45AM -0500, Timm Murray wrote: > > > -- > 'DeCSS would be fine. Where is it?' > 'Here,' Montag touched his head. > 'Ah,' Granger smiled and nodded. > > Oskar Sandberg > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ___ > Devl mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devl > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS
- Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:57 PM Subject: RE: [freenet-devl] MercuryFS > I never responded to this email, and am not a member of this email group > anymore (want to be, but have to manage my inbox). So here it goes, event > though its late. You should have sent this to the -chat list, you know. > > This question misses the whole theory behind MFS: it's a global standard, What is this "global standard" stuff? It sounds like you're trying to create a new buzzword. > if > implemented in its entirety, and will allow for the anywhere pc scenario to > work, then there is more or less full permission to implement it, royalty > free, if you're also open/managed source. One of the big points of Free Software and even the lesser Open Source movements is that anybody is allowed to use the software without any discrimination (within certian rules; for instance, the GPL says you have to release the source code to any changes you make). That means that if a Free Software project were to take your stuff, without themselves making a profit, and put their source under the BSD license, anybody would be allowed to take their source and do basicly whatever they want with it (the BSD only carries the restriction that you have to keep the author's name on the source code), including making a profit from it. They won't care a hoot and hollar about your little "dream", they'll just use MFS from somebody else then you without giving you a dime. In this case, you can either: 1) Disallow Free Software / Open Source projects from using it at all (in which case you will probably lose any respect you might still have in both those communities). OR 2) Have Free Software / Open Source projects carry a license extention that says the program can't be used in a commercial product (at which point they would no longer be a Free Software / Open Source project, due to discrimination issues. Will probably turn out the same as the first one). What is more, if you carry either of the above restrictions, and your filesystem turns out to be any good at all, somebody will just reverse engineer the protocol (they did it with Samba and AIM clones (IIRC)) and create a true Free Software project out of it anyway. > > The license is like federal law, all member states have to abide by it, but > it's a small set of laws (ok, the analogy breaks down here) are free to do > their own thing. Paying tax will only occur for Microsoft, novell, and > others who implement MFS in a closed source way. Since I don't intend to > have a dedicated staff of more than 25 people total, it will be cheap. With > a global deployment, the UNI ID yearly fee will drop. Eventually I will make > it non profit, because of political reasons (don't repeat that until I have > funding, please). The rest of the money will go to law firms who are > automatically put on retainer by UNI ID, to represent the interests of the > user who's info (an incomplete credit card # and email address, give me a > break you guys, its as psuedo-anonymous as possible) is being requested. If > you look at the balance diagram www.mercuryfs.net/balance/index.html, the > law firms are on our side of the scale. We will throw our money behind > certain cases, while we go through our "hi, nice to meet you, but your also > my opponent" phase of this, and it will be litigation. In fact, if the dream > comes true, we will be the source of new case law. Because of that fact, I'm > opening a dialogue with the ACLU, because they would fill that position in > my dream quite well. I know for a fact that the US govt will be cake > compared to the rest of the world, because I've already spoken to them (to > quote 'em "nice job"). > > I understand your political views well, but don't agree with them. Hint: I'm > a republican. NO WAY!!! > Social liberal, fiscal conservative, but I voted for Gore, > because of his experience and track record. Bush's experience (but not > skills) pale in comparison. So I fit into some categories, when they suit my > interests, and I make no effort to hide that fact. In fact, if the > republicans really piss me off, I'll write my own name on the ballot and > tell them to kiss my ass. > > The reason I engaged the freenet crowd, is that our views are more similar > than many other views (like the draconian RIAA). > > You see guys, I get to deal with the RIAA, because MFS's copyright features > can be bypassed in a heartbeat. Just as people distribute cd keys for > Microsoft products, they will distribute UNI ID group keys, which are > injected into the 7800 UNI ID temp cache (FIG 7), using the same interfaces > that NDS or Active directory will be using. Then the RIAA will be stupid > enough to say "well, since MFS identifies all files via math values, you can > spot all copyrighted material and manually filter it out, at the ISP level". > Then I will use the license, and say NO, you
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] words of wisdom
[crossposted to chat] - Original Message - From: "Josh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Freenet Developers Email List (E-mail)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:29 AM Subject: [freenet-devl] words of wisdom > I will not drop any more emails into the group, since I'm not a member, and > do not want to be that junk mail you all get. (funny example of the open > philosophy's disadvantages :) ). > > The question is not weather congress or the executive is the correct method, > because the answer is both, and what's important is the situation. > I understand your core philosophies, because you have well published them. > Unfortunately I have not, but it will happen. I have an engineering > perspective to add to this, because the issues are one and the same, if you > really think about it (security & philosophy). To quote you guys, its how do > you deal with the "cancer nodes". With my added centralness, it's the > answer. Around here, we never take centralness as the answer (except as a crutch to be replaced later). In my experiance, a well thought out decentralized design is always superior to a similar centralized design (although poorly-done decentralized designs have enormous difficulty actualy working). That's why I like Freenet. > It's the white blood cells. But to say that my design is more or > less secure is futile, because nothing that is secure is usable. The > fundamental premise of computer security is like an ohms law tradeoff: > usability, security, cost. > > What I am for, is what the NSA is aiming for with SE-Linux (my chosen linux > base code, irony?): to make something so secure, that not even they can > break it. That way, they can use it and feel comfortable. Those that break > it will want the credit of doing so. Since I'm going to have a budget to > deal with, there will be rewards to entice people to enhance MFS. My hopes > are that it will be the DES of file systems. Not the best in any category, > but universal and good enough to get the job done. Generic and specialized > are yin and yang. "Not the best in any category" doesn't begin the describe the problems with DES. I hope you know that around 1993, you could build a custom DES-cracking computer for about $1 million (US) that could break any DES key in a little over three hours. Following Moore's law, computers have gotten 2^4 times faster since then (and that estimate is on a conservitive scale). The result is kludges like 3DES until something more suitable comes along (AES). Your choice of analogy does not bode well for the future. > > You guys will appreciate the UNI ID design, and may want to consider looking > it over. I may make MFS and UNI ID also use PGP, to have 2 fences guarding > the property. That will be the executive and congress together. I am > purposely not reading your engineering material, just as I'm not reading AFS > (but will later). I want it for the record that we are in parallel, and not > hopping over. But UNI ID is NOT MFS, so that argument doesn't apply. UNI ID > was created out of necessity. Its my definition of anonymous identification. > (yes, you semantics freaks, its an oxymoron, and trademark!) > > You may all view the UNI IDs figures because it's a public design. > www.mercuryfs.net/design/uni_id.pdf Note that this week I'm changing all > functions over to use the figure 96 method > (www.mercuryfs.net/design/fig_96.pdf ), to just begin later on in that > flowcharts process. Thus sending the UNI ID password (aka PIN number) via > IPsec. > > My last note is, a suggestion: should you read and understand the UNI ID > design, and how it's a public/private key distribution system, and that MFS > (specifically the S0 network) does not use it in any special way, then I'd > like to propose that you all see if UNI ID may suit freenet. No centralized design will ever suit Freenet. > Because by > design, both technically, legally, and philosophically, it's a and neutral > separate entity. I intend to end up in Switzerland, since I can have an > excuse to use the (rented, timeshared, low cost, blah blah) corporate jet, > and go snowboarding. Not a partnership, but just the first user of it. In > fact, if Ian is interested, we can get him to funding it? (ha!) > > Oh yeah, the patent will be at www.mercuryfs.net/patent.zip, in about 20 > minutes. It's a better read than my documentation, to be honest. I consider > it the best summary of MFS so far. What an example of the value of > attorneys, the Marine corp. of the business world. Attorneys, the barnacle of the business world. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] p2p = child-endangerment
-Original Message- From: Jeremy G Byrne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Monday, July 30, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: [freenet-chat] p2p = child-endangerment <> > " . . . In this case, parental awareness and parental involvement matter more than legislation. > And that's the whole point of the report Mr. Largent and I are > releasing today." Well, that's something at least. Parental awareness and involvement is always better then your stinky legislation. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] RE: open source trademark
Way to go, Josh. ESR and his cronies are going to have a field day over your license. -Original Message- From: Josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'Russell Nelson' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:23 PM Subject: [freenet-chat] RE: open source trademark >Thank you for the reply. I'm glad to know that open source is not a >trademark, therefore I will submit my license per your instructions, and if >you guys approve it (if), then I will return to using the "open source" >words. > > -Original Message- >From: Russell Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:54 PM >To: Josh >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: open source trademark > >Josh writes: > > Hello, I'm a developer in need of a custom open source license. It came >to > > my attention that "open source" is a registered trademark of your > > organization. > >We've given up on that idea. It's not a defendable trademark. We do >maintain a certification mark, "OSI Certified Open Source", which we >apply to any software using an approved license. > > > I've designed a global file system. As such, it cannot succeed if there >are > > a dozen flavors of the same basic design floating around. It's essential > > that I maintain a degree of management over my design, yet as an open > > standard it must be "open" source. > >Best thing to do then is establish your own certification trademark, >and deny its use to anyone who is not interoperable. > > > I am patent pending, just so somebody else can't patent it. > >All you have to do is publish the ideas in print. > > > Yet I intend to release the design royalty free, and open source. > > Therefore I wrote my own version of the GNU license > > (www.mercuryfs.net/license.htm. It's not ready for prime time, but > > it's all I got at the moment. > >If you're asking us to approve it, the procedure is given at >http://opensource.org/docs/certification_mark.html > >-- >-russ nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://russnelson.com >Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | >521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | #exclude >Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX | > > >___ >Chat mailing list >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: p2p = child-endangerment
Better soldiers? Did you know that arguably the best army in the ancient world were all homosexuals? Not only that, but both Rome and Greece were full of all sorts of sexual behavior, and their ability on the battlefield is unquestioned. "Sexual repression through religion" is also bunk. While it is true that religions from the Judeo/Christian/Muslum backgrounds repress sexuality, many other religions the world over are marked by wild orgies as part of their worship. Why do ancient religions sacrifice a virgin to the gods? Because they want to get rid of virtuous people and keep the sluts. -Original Message- From: Travis Bemann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Re: p2p = child-endangerment On Tue, Jul 31, 2001 at 11:56:36AM -0400, Aaron Guy Davies wrote: > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, philipp wrote: > > > Of course it is a problem, when children receive porn vids instead of > > britney spears songs And of course it is a problem, if children > > are able to see sex&violence at the TV. But come on, guys, we all know > > the solution to this kind of problems isn´t called "V-Chip" or any law > > that forbids the usage of P2P apps. We need PARENTS who actually > > deserve this term = parents who take care of their kids. A V-Chip > > can´t do this. Laws neither. > > Check your premises. *Why* is it a problem for kids to have access to > porn? How do you know our society wouldn't be better off if everybody grew > up watching porn instead of horror movies? Why do assume parents should > "protect" their children from sex? For political reasons. First, totally sexually repressed people make much better soldiers and cannon fodder than non-sexually repressed people. Second, puritanicality is necessitated by many different organized religions, and the reason is to perpetuate the traditional patriarchical nuclear family, rather than not being married and just having "nonproductive" sex with one's SO, etc. The reason for the patriarchical nuclear family is that it first promotes widespread sexual repression (because the only reason to have sex is for reproduction, within the framework of the patriarchical nuclear family), and because the "normal" patriarchical nuclear family is a very highly authoritarian construct, and therefore helps perpetuate authoritarian ideologies, and also, especially traditionally, perpetruates a male-dominated society (you know, the whole husband goes to work and wife is just a "homemaker" thing...). There are other reasons to be against port, mainly due to the fact that plain old girl-posing-for-guys porn is highly misogynistic, but I don't think that this is why most politicians think "PORN == EVIL EVIL EVIL". -- Yes, I know my enemies. They're the teachers who tell me to fight me. Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite. All of which are American dreams. - Rage Against The Machine ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: p2p = child-endangerment
-Original Message- From: David McNab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Re: p2p = child-endangerment <> >Such as in Aldous Huxley's visionary novel Brave New World. Oh yeah, we really want the world to turn out like THAT! ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] RE: open source trademark
Eric S. Raymond, one of the ring-leaders of the Open Source movement. -Original Message- From: Josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: 'Timm Murray' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 3:52 PM Subject: RE: [freenet-chat] RE: open source trademark >Who's ESR? I hope they attract attention to my web site, I could care less >about their political views. > > -Original Message- >From: Timm Murray [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 6:50 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] RE: open source trademark > >Way to go, Josh. ESR and his cronies are going to have a field day over >your license. > >-Original Message- >From: Josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: 'Russell Nelson' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 3:23 PM >Subject: [freenet-chat] RE: open source trademark > > >>Thank you for the reply. I'm glad to know that open source is not a >>trademark, therefore I will submit my license per your instructions, and if >>you guys approve it (if), then I will return to using the "open source" >>words. >> >> -Original Message- >>From: Russell Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:54 PM >>To: Josh >>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Re: open source trademark >> >>Josh writes: >> > Hello, I'm a developer in need of a custom open source license. It came >>to >> > my attention that "open source" is a registered trademark of your >> > organization. >> >>We've given up on that idea. It's not a defendable trademark. We do >>maintain a certification mark, "OSI Certified Open Source", which we >>apply to any software using an approved license. >> >> > I've designed a global file system. As such, it cannot succeed if there >>are >> > a dozen flavors of the same basic design floating around. It's essential >> > that I maintain a degree of management over my design, yet as an open >> > standard it must be "open" source. >> >>Best thing to do then is establish your own certification trademark, >>and deny its use to anyone who is not interoperable. >> >> > I am patent pending, just so somebody else can't patent it. >> >>All you have to do is publish the ideas in print. >> >> > Yet I intend to release the design royalty free, and open source. >> > Therefore I wrote my own version of the GNU license >> > (www.mercuryfs.net/license.htm. It's not ready for prime time, but >> > it's all I got at the moment. >> >>If you're asking us to approve it, the procedure is given at >>http://opensource.org/docs/certification_mark.html >> >>-- >>-russ nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://russnelson.com >>Crynwr sells support for free software | PGPok | >>521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315 268 1925 voice | #exclude >>Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | +1 315 268 9201 FAX | >> >> >>___ >>Chat mailing list >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat >> >> > > > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:[freenet-chat] FW: [G-R-U-N-T] check this latest assult on our freedom.
<> > > Title I -- Security System Standards > > > > Sec. 101: Prohibition of Certain Devices > > > > (a) In General -- It is unlawful to manufacture, import, > > offer to > > the public, provide or otherwise traffic in any > > interactive digital > > device that does not include and utilize certified > > security > > technologies that adhere to the security system standards > > adopted > > under section 104. > > > > (b) Exception -- Subsection (a) does not apply to the > > offer for > > sale or provision of, or other trafficking in, any > > previously-owned > > interactive digital device, if such device was legally > > manufactured > > or imported, and sold, prior to the effective date of > > regulations > > adopted under section 104 and not subsequently modified in > > violation of subsection (a) or 103(a). Note that exception. Start hoarding old equiptment NOW. If you need lots of computing power, AMD chips of <1 GHz are really, REALLY cheep right now. <> > > Penalties summarized (by Declan): > > > > Criminal penalties apply to violations of sec. 102 or > > 103(a)(2). That > > includes the "interactive computer service shall store and > > transmit" > > without removal section, and the distribute "any copyrighted > > material > > or other protected content where the security measure > > associated with > > a certified security technology has been removed or > > altered." > > > > The criminal penalties are: "(1) shall be fined not more > > than $500,000 > > or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both, for the > > first > > offense; and (2) shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or > > imprisoned > > for not more than 10 years, or both, for any subsequent > > offense." Only > > someone who violates the law "willfully and for purposes of > > commercial > > advantage or private financial gain" can be convicted. Notice "willfuly AND for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain". Emphisis on "AND". If you create software that breaks these schemes, don't make money off of it and they can't touch you. People using that software should also not make money off the fact that they broke a copy protection scheme. IANAL, as always. --- Runbox Mail Manager - www.runbox.com Free online email application ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> > Every computer should be running a Freenet node anyway. There are ways > > to make Freenet work behind firewalls, though it's a bit tricky last I > > heard. Something like a Squid proxy server for Freenet is actualy > > redundant. > > I mean that from a security standpoint I would not want every machine on > my LAN running FreeNet. Not that I don't trust the programmers of FreeNet > but each new bit of ware you have to run on each machine is just one more > thing to worry about. The entire LAN is essentially running as a single > computer on the Net so it doesn't make sense to run more than one node and > it makes the most sense to run that node as part of the proxy server that > is already setup. There is already some proxy server FProxy or something > like that which lets you use a local machine to host FreeNet objects > within the web browser. Couldn't you just wrap that into an already > existing proxy server (once it reaches a stable API) to simplify > installation and admining? If you really want this, why not set FProxy (or FwProxy, whatever) at your main node to accept the IPs of the machines on your LAN? Then they can all access the same node through a web browser. You could also set FCP/XML-RPC to accept those same IPs, and thus any FCP or XML-RPC based clients can go through there. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
<> > > Every computer should be running a Freenet node anyway. There are > > ways to make Freenet work behind firewalls, though it's a bit > > tricky last I heard. Something like a Squid proxy server for > > Freenet is actualy redundant. > > That's ridiculous. Run _one_ node per LAN. Sorry Mark, but the "one computer, one node" rule is something I picked up from Oskar (I think), and I decided I agreed with him (and not just because he's Oskar). Freenet works better with lots of smaller nodes to spread the data out then to have a few really big nodes. I think the optimal solution is to have each computer on the LAN to have a 50-200 MB store (non-transient) with the main node having a 1-2 GB store. Node announcements always go through the main node. You can skip a few computers if you have security concerns (such as on a web server). Then set your LANs firewall to block everything incoming and outgoing (except what is explicity allowed; you should do this anyway). Allow the main node to go out on the various Freenet ports. This should make it so that internal nodes don't learn about nodes outside the LAN (except for the main node). They will "learn" about new nodes when requests are sent through the main node, but those new nodes will be flushed when they can't contact that node because of the firewall. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> begin Michael quotation of Wed, Oct 17, 2001 at 08:39:47PM -0500: > > > Usually I've always tried to concentrate disk space at the servers. These > > days with 20gigger drives in even the most basic client machines it'd be > > great to use the extra diskspace but I'd still rather serve up that extra > > diskspace via Samba, NFS, or some similar technology that is already built > > into the client OS's and I know how to secure. > > What happens when a desktop machine gets rebooted? That One Big > Node has to deal with losing and regaining arbitrary large chunks > of datastore at any time. Sounds hard. If Freenet can't handle a few machines going down for a few minutes a day, then it's screwed anyway. You should be able to shut off any random node for a few hours at a time with little to no ill effects on the overall network. Any nodes that attempt to get data from a down node will flush that node from it's data store, though, but it can reroute the request to the next most likely node. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> Timm Murray ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > Sorry Mark, but the "one computer, one node" rule is something I > > picked up from Oskar (I think), and I decided I agreed with him (and > > not just because he's Oskar). Freenet works better with lots of > > smaller nodes to spread the data out then to have a few really big > > nodes. I think the optimal solution is to have each computer on the > > LAN to have a 50-200 MB store (non-transient) with the main node > > having a 1-2 GB store. > > (Damn, dude! Hit Enter once in a while!) No > > It seems quite likely that in the near future, Freenet is going to be > (more commonly) used as a transport mechanism for Very Large Files > (~650 MB). If the local node's data store is less than the size of the > file you're trying to retrieve, I doubt that the results are going to > be pleasant. This is not a problem with split files. Event before split files, the node would just save it to the hard drive, pass it on to the next node, then delete it. You may have problems if the file is larger then your total free hard drive space. Again, this is not a problem with 0.4/5 split files. > I can't see any reason why you'd want a data store less than 1 GB, > unless your hard drive is simply so small that you can't have a node > that big. (In which case you won't be downloading ISO images, so you > won't face these issues in the first place.) Large datastores tend to centralize the network. Datastores don't fill up as quickly and your node caches more data and less data falls out. On the surface, this seems like an advantage; indeed, for a node operator's short term gain, it is an advantage. However, over the long term it tends to hurt routing. Nodes won't be requesting as much data from other nodes, and thus won't discover new nodes through requests. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:[freenet-chat] DMCA/SSSCA/Software Patents from 1950
> >>From David McNab: > >>A Hypothetical Question: > >>If the system of software patents, plus the DMCA and SSSCA, had been > written into law > >>in 1950, what would have happened in the computer industry since then? > >>Think about it. > > > From: "Scott Haman" > > I am working on a research > > paper covering the DMCA law. I was > > wondering if it might be possible if you could give > > a statement or even a partial answer to your query. > > Any time you could spare would be greatly appreciated. > > Hi Scott, > > Thanks for your email. > > A few things I would envisage if DMCA, SSSCA and software patents had > arrived in the 1950s: > > 1) Pace of technology - would have been slower. > > Intellectual property restrictions would pose huge barriers to the 'young > bloods', who have traditionally been a major source of inspiration and > innovation. > > I suspect that it would have taken till approx the year 2020-2040 for > technology to reach the level it reached in 2001 without these restrictions. <> Many of the orginal hackers at MIT did things that would most certianly be a DMCA violation today. These hackers started on a TX-0, which was one of the first transister-based computers. Later, they got a PDP-1. Upon getting the PDP-1, they shut down the TX-0 (this is a big deal because it was really hard to get a computer back up in those days) and hard coded new instructions into the system (the TX-0 normaly only has address space for four instructions; I have no idea how you can possibly do *anything* useful with four instructions, but they did it). Putting computers in a "locked box" as you describe would most certinaly make this a DMCA violation. The PDP-1 would eventually get a timesharing system. No longer did people have to wait in line; you could have more then one person running a program at a time. This was a great boon for most users. It sucked for the hackers. Not having full and complete control over the system seemed like a horrible idea for them. Further, current timesharing were sub-optimal beasts; hackers don't use sub-optimal software. Still, they had to live with timesharing systems, so they did what any good hackers do: Write their own timesharing software. While they still didn't like the very idea of timesharing, at least they could make a system that was imbibed with the hacker spirit. The result was "Incompatible Timesharing System", or ITS. This would also be a DMCA violation, had it been around at the time. A timesharing system is practicly an operating system; if you're playing around with hardware at that low of a level, then you most likely can disable any "copyright controls" the manufactures have put in. Further, this was in direct compitition with DEC's own system, which came with the PDP. DEC obviously wouldn't like that too much and, today, would have had the knee-jerk ITS quickly became the standard for timesharing. Eventualy, ITS evolved into MULTICS. MULTICS, unfortunatly, got bogged down in a bunch of incompatible changes. Still, it started with some good ideas. The basic MULTICS system is made of small tools that do one thing, and do it well. You can then combine these tools to do more complex tasks. MULTICS died, but not before a hacker at AT&T created UNIX, which was basicly "MULTICS-lite". UNIX eventualy got a basic networking layer; slow, unreliable, but it worked. This networking layer eventualy evolved into IP, and added TCP for reliablity. So ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:[freenet-chat] DMCA/SSSCA/Software Patents from 1950
> >>From David McNab: > >>A Hypothetical Question: > >>If the system of software patents, plus the DMCA and SSSCA, had been > written into law > >>in 1950, what would have happened in the computer industry since then? > >>Think about it. > > > From: "Scott Haman" > > I am working on a research > > paper covering the DMCA law. I was > > wondering if it might be possible if you could give > > a statement or even a partial answer to your query. > > Any time you could spare would be greatly appreciated. > > Hi Scott, > > Thanks for your email. > > A few things I would envisage if DMCA, SSSCA and software patents had > arrived in the 1950s: > > 1) Pace of technology - would have been slower. > > Intellectual property restrictions would pose huge barriers to the 'young > bloods', who have traditionally been a major source of inspiration and > innovation. > > I suspect that it would have taken till approx the year 2020-2040 for > technology to reach the level it reached in 2001 without these restrictions. <> Many of the orginal hackers at MIT did things that would most certianly be a DMCA violation today. These hackers started on a TX-0, which was one of the first transister-based computers. Later, they got a PDP-1. Upon getting the PDP-1, they shut down the TX-0 (this is a big deal because it was really hard to get a computer back up in those days) and hard coded new instructions into the system (the TX-0 normaly only has address space for four instructions; I have no idea how you can possibly do *anything* useful with four instructions, but they did it). Putting computers in a "locked box" as you describe would most certinaly make this a DMCA violation. The PDP-1 would eventually get a timesharing system. No longer did people have to wait in line; you could have more then one person running a program at a time. This was a great boon for most users. It sucked for the hackers. Not having full and complete control over the system seemed like a horrible idea for them. Further, current timesharing were sub-optimal beasts; hackers don't use sub-optimal software. Still, they had to live with timesharing systems, so they did what any good hackers do: Write their own timesharing software. While they still didn't like the very idea of timesharing, at least they could make a system that was imbibed with the hacker spirit. The result was "Incompatible Timesharing System", or ITS. This would also be a DMCA violation, had it been around at the time. A timesharing system is practicly an operating system; if you're playing around with hardware at that low of a level, then you most likely can disable any "copyright controls" the manufactures have put in. Further, this was in direct compitition with DEC's own system, which came with the PDP. DEC obviously wouldn't like that too much and, today, would have had the knee-jerk reaction of an immediate law-suit. ITS quickly became the standard for timesharing. Eventualy, ITS evolved into MULTICS. MULTICS, unfortunatly, got bogged down in a bunch of incompatible changes. Still, it started with some good ideas. The basic MULTICS system is made of small tools that do one thing, and do it well. You can then combine these tools to do more complex tasks. MULTICS died, but not before a hacker at AT&T created UNIX, which was basicly "MULTICS-lite". UNIX eventualy got a basic networking layer; slow, unreliable, but it worked. This networking layer eventualy evolved into IP, and added TCP for reliablity. So, no ITS = no MULTICS = no UNIX = no Internet. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> Timm Murray: > > Large datastores tend to centralize the network. Datastores don't fill up as > > quickly and your node caches more data and less data falls out. On the surface, > > this seems like an advantage; indeed, for a node operator's short term gain, it > > is an advantage. However, over the long term it tends to hurt routing. Nodes > > won't be requesting as much data from other nodes, and thus won't discover new > > nodes through requests. > > I haven't seen _any_ compelling argument why above-average nodes > should attract more than their "fair share" of requests. What's > yours? Over time, the large node simply accumulates more data from Freenet. This means there should be more nodes which point to data on the large node. Thus, there will be more requests routed to the large node. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> Timm Murray: > > Over time, the large node simply accumulates more data from Freenet. This means > > there should be more nodes which point to data on the large node. Thus, there will > > be more requests routed to the large node. > > Uhh... so? The node's big; it can handle lots of requests. That's > not a problem. What's a problem is if Freenet says: "Hey, your node > is 10% better than usual, so let's send every request to it!" I > don't see why this would happen. What about the guy who has a 40 GB hard drive, devotes half of it to Freenet, but only has a 56Kinda modem? I'm pretty sure this *will* happen, probably already has. If the average node is around 200 MB (which is what was suggested by Oskar and Scott at some point, IIRC), and you have a 20 GB node, your node is (1024*20)/200 = 102.4 times better then average, quite a bit more then the 10% you cite. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
Now you've got it :) Yes, you're right that artificaly limiting the size of the store is a bad idea (zero-one- infinity rule), but that doesn't stop us from advocating that people keep their store size down. Setting the datasource diffrently when overloaded is an intresting idea. I'll have to twist my brain around it more. > Mark J Roberts: > > Timm Murray: > > > Over time, the large node simply accumulates more data from Freenet. This means > > > there should be more nodes which point to data on the large node. Thus, there >will > > > be more requests routed to the large node. > > > > Uhh... so? The node's big; it can handle lots of requests. That's > > not a problem. What's a problem is if Freenet says: "Hey, your node > > is 10% better than usual, so let's send every request to it!" I > > don't see why this would happen. > > Looks like I totally, embarassingly missed your point the first time > around... I'll try this again. :} > > You're right: it's true that the bigger your store, the more > requests your node will receive. And overloaded nodes are bad > because they make the network unreliable. So our objective is > obviously to prevent overload. > > Well, I really detest artificially constricting the store size in > order to regulate request load. But I _do_ understand your point > now: larger stores demand more bandwidth. Low-bandwidth nodes need > some way to avoid overload, and constricting the size of the store > is one way to do it. The _wrong_ way to do it > > What's creepy about this are the various heuristics proposed to > accomplish it: "don't make a large store!", "if you have Y > bandwidth, use a X megabyte store!", etc. It's impossible to find an > acceptable one. Which means that nodes will have to detect overload > and adjust themselves. Which also means that we can stop promoting > this dangerous small-store idea - the recommended size of the store > should be based on the memory required to index its contents. > > One solution might be to, when overloaded, set the datasource not to > yourself but to where you would've routed the request if you didn't > have the data. You'd really actually use a probability scaled by the > current throughput. > > Needs more processing. > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> > > I haven't seen _any_ compelling argument why above-average nodes > > > should attract more than their "fair share" of requests. What's > > > yours? > > > > Over time, the large node simply accumulates more data from Freenet. > > This means there should be more nodes which point to data on the large > > node. Thus, there will be more requests routed to the large node. > > Does FreeNet not take into account reliability, Not for routing an individual request, no. However, nodes that don't respond when requested will be flushed from the datastore. >proximity, No. >speed, No. > etc of > nodes when fetching files? If it does I would think it could automaticlly > sense if a node was becoming saturated and find a more satisfactory link > and/or clone the resource? > > Why is it a bad thing if machines with more resources do more work? Centralization. While it's not so bad if a better machine does a little more work, it get's bad when that same machine is getting requests from half the network. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:[freenet-chat] anarchists in america
You are SO RIGHT! I give up my Freenet-loving ways and it's vvil hypocrisy. Copyrights are the only way people will ever make money, and of course the RIAA should be allowed to break into anybody's computer and delete anything they see fit. I REPENT, OH GREAT MARTIN CHAO!!! > Hello everyone. I'm writing a peer to peer paper for > school. This assignment has brought me to freenet. > Luckily our professor has allowed us a lot of leeway > with this assignment. Some of us are focusing on the > technologies, others are focusing on the social and > legal impact of the technologies. I began my paper > with a purely technical perspective, but after > studying freenet I've decided to change the focus to > political. I've spent a lot of time reading your email > archives. > > I must say, so far the freenet philosophy and some of > your people appear to be quite pathetic. Your form of > democracy appears to be anarchy. This group appears to > be a bunch of closet socialists / communists who hate > the american dream and any form of authority, yet you > represent democracy. > > You people actually believe the constitution gives you > the right to distribute porn and other people's > software. To quote you: "copyrights are a violation of > free speech." Yet you only offer a one paragraph > solution which states that fair use is your ideal > replacement. To say that copyrights should be > abolished, then to only specify a 1 paragraph > replacement, is a prime example of the ignorance of > this group. > > For a group whose goal is to respect and uphold > freedom of speech, you appear to actively discriminate > against those who don't share your twisted views. > Hipocricy, again. > > Yet Ian Clarke has started a company with the intent > to release commercial software. Wait a minute, I > thought open source was the right way? Another example > of hypocrisy. > > What are you going to do when your commercial software > is posted on freenet or gnutella, and you can't pay > the salaries of your programmers? > > This philosophy appears to support the distribution of > kiddie porn as a form of free speech. Perhaps when you > teenagers are old enough to have kids, and one of them > gets raped on camera, the film posted on the internet, > you will learn what type of reality we live in. > > From what I see, detailed instructions on how to > hijack airliners or conduct biological warfare is > protected under your "freedom of speech" philosophy. > > I have never seen such a glaring example of hypocrisy > and ignorant idealism in my life, and I can't wait to > see the courts shut down your warez/porn distribution > net. > > Perhaps you all can enlighten me by explaining the > merits of your three page philosophy to me in detail, > and please begin by explaining how fair use is the > ideal replacement. > > Thank you very much. > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] anarchists in america
> >Copyright and IP rights are legalized theft from the > >public of a idea or piece of work. > > So obtaining a few million of investment to create a > cure for a cancer, and patenting that cure in order to > ensure re-payment of that investment is theft from the > public? Even though that return on investment will > likely motivate others to invest in other cancer > projects? > > Perhaps you need to be a victim of cancer before you > respect biotech. Perhaps you need to be a poor victim of cancer, and then not be able to afford the medicine you need due to patents, before you see that IP is often evil. This is pretty much the situation in Africa, where HIV-ridden countries are violating patents from US companies so that their citizens don't die left and right. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> > Centralization. While it's not so bad if a better machine does a > > little more work, it get's bad when that same machine is getting > > requests from half the network. > > Wouldn't that be more a problem of routing requests than saying it is > horrible if you want your node to have more data? I can see why > centralization is bad but to be realistic there are just certain places > that put out or take in a lot more information than others. Freedom > shouldn't mean forced equality I guess. Couldn't the protocol just notice > if there was centralization going on and assuming you had enough nodes in > the network as a whole rebalance things somewhat? If I understand what you're saying, no it can't. Freenet is designed so that you can't know what is going on in other parts of the network. A single node might notice that a certian other node tends to pop up a lot in it's table, and then go out and find a new node with similar data, but I don't think you could do this network- wide and still maintain anonyimity. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> But why wouldn't a node just stop allowing connections when it sensed it > was being used to much? Limit bandwidth and CPU usage within a given time > frame and maybe watch for DoS type issues by only letting a certain number > of connections per host per timeframe through? Then you know enough for a > node to keep itself from being overloaded. There already is bandwidth limiting. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] OT: Idiot Sighting
This doesn't have anything to do with Freenet, but I thought I'd share it with the group. This came from my linux user group's mailing list, and I've personaly talked to some of the people who were there; this really happened. > IDIOT SIGHTING > > At one of the computer stores today, I asked, "Do you have the latest CD > of SuSE linux?" > > Our hero's answer: "What kind of music does she sing?" My addtion to this: I know the store where this happened. Some months ago, I went in there looking for a real, honest to god hardware modem. When I found one on their shelves, one of their salespeople came over and asked if I needed some help. I said I was looking for a modem compatible with Linux. He said the one I had picked up would probably work (it boasted Linux compatibility right on the box), then added "by the way, would you like to sign up for MSN Internet acsess?" Asking someone explicitly looking for Linux-compatible hardware if they would like to give Microsoft some money greatly amuses me. -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/CS d- s+:-: a--- C+++ UL+++$ P+>P+++ L++>L E--- W-- N+ !o K? w--- !O !M !V PS+ PE Y+(++) PGP@ t+(++) 5+(+++) X+@ !R tv b++ DI D+ G e h! !r y? --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> Question: I've heard a couple people say that looking up a file on FreeNet > will always be slower than a direct HTTP request. It's my understanding > that FreeNet works sort of like a proxy server and the slow down is really > in locating the proxy that has the file desired. Would not FreeNet > actually be faster in cases where a file was heavily trafficed such as > images from the Slashdot webpage as it could come from a proxy closer to > you on the network? Yes, in fact if you hang around long enough, you will find a lot of people suggesting using Freenet to overcome the Slashdot Effect. Freenet is still slower then HTTP in the sense that it will use more bandwidth. An HTTP server under normal bandwidth load will allways be faster then Freenet, but Freenet is infinatly faster then not being able to get the document at all. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re:Re: [freenet-chat] Slashdot needs Freenet category with Hops
> > Yes, in fact if you hang around long enough, you will find a lot of > > people suggesting using Freenet to overcome the Slashdot Effect. > > Freenet is still slower then HTTP in the sense that it will use more > > bandwidth. An HTTP server under normal bandwidth load will allways be > > faster then Freenet, but Freenet is infinatly faster then not being > > able to get the document at all. > > Would it be possible to add FreeNet into something like Squid so that any > web browser inside a LAN that is already set to use our Squid proxy server > would be able to request FreeNet objects without needing to run nodes on > every machine or to configure each machine to use a special FreeNet > proxy? It'd seem to me that'd be a major issue on making it available > inside firewalls and such. Assuming that is even a desired goal for > FreeNet. Every computer should be running a Freenet node anyway. There are ways to make Freenet work behind firewalls, though it's a bit tricky last I heard. Something like a Squid proxy server for Freenet is actualy redundant. ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] An Error Correcting FS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Read up on journaling file systems. On Friday 24 May 2002 13:14, Aaron Ingebrigtsen wrote: > I wrote this up on the bus going home last night. Tell me what you think > of it. I know I am useing ideas that I got from other sources and that it > isn't really MY idea, but I wrote it and it makes sense to me so far, and I > wish I could implement it. > > An Error Correcting File System with Even Parity > > 1 Byte = 8 Bits > > Data Packet = 1 for the first bit > Error Correction Packet = 0 for first bit > > Last bit is Parity bit > Parity is determined by the Data, or BYTE, contained in the packet, not > includeing the Packet Type Identifier. An Odd number of 1s in the Byte > would make the Parity bit a 1. An Even number of 1s makes the Parity bit a > 0. > > > DP1 DP2 > -- -- > > |1|10101100|0| |1|11101100|1| > > -- -- > -- -- > > |0|11001110|1| |0|11001010|0| > > -- -- > EP1 EP2 > > EP1 = Second half of DP1 and First half of DP2 > EPx = Second half of DPx and First half of DP1 > > x=Last Packet > > If one bit is missing, Parity can be used to restore it. > > If one Packet is missing or damaged two other packets can be used to > Rebuild it. > > If two bits in one Packet are lost, the Packet is lost. > > If a DP and it's corisponding EP are lost, they can't be Rebuilt. > > If the first bit of a packet is lost, one can look for it's corisponding > packet, whether DP or EP and set the identification bit. > > If the Parity bit is lost, the data can be used to set it again. > > I wrote this in such a way that the average person can hopefully grasp what > it is that I am talking about. I hope the verboseness and obviousness of > it doesn't insult you. It wasn't intended for the high tech experts. :) > > I think this method of error correction could work really well as part of a > real file system, such as FAT16 or something, but since it takes up more > than twice the same amount of space as it normaly would, it would be a bad > idea to protect ALL of your files with this scheme. I would only use it on > the most important files. Also, I would have backup copies of important > files being stored elswhere on the drive, on the fly, so that if even this > error correction scheme is unable to protect the file, it will have a > backup available to automaticaly replace the file. > > I would also be useing some kind of External backup method for my important > files and would keep at least two copies of every backup, and keep one of > those two copies Off Site, somewhere else. > > This way it would be nearly impossible to lose my most important files. :) > And I wouldn't have to try to use RAID. :) > > Hope it makes sense to you guys, and I really hope it is either > implementable on my home machine, for free, or isn't required because of > something better that is also free. :) > > _ > Join the worldÂ’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. > http://www.hotmail.com > > > ___ > chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat - -- Learned more from a three minute bug fix than we ever did in school. --Bruce Sprinsteen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzujFAACgkQqpueKcacfLRHkQCgknFKUDkd1LetWsqETGdfk58V ElYAn14t0dEqas64o4kTdc7yp9SFI/wy =c/RE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] An Error Correcting FS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 24 May 2002 13:36, David Allen wrote: <> > It's a decent idea, but I would like to point out that this type of error > correction is already implemented in many different devices and protocols > to ensure the quality of the data that's coming over the line. I don't > know the nitty gritty details, but I'm pretty sure TCP/IP contains > provisions for checksums which perform much the same function of error > detection and correction. <> Not just TCP/IP, but nearly every networking protocol around for OSI layers 2-4. Even some application-layer stuff has CRC checks. - -- There are things worse than Perl . . . ASP comes to mind. --"Shinobi", irc.openprojects.org, #debian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzujNMACgkQqpueKcacfLTouQCgmjpuuSDbQfn7Pqygko+21tVv oysAn2R5Nfg5Ns1ib8+nenj2bUVYqVEf =dYsR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Freenet question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 <> > Here's the only thing I can't figure out. There are files out there in the > network, and you need keys to retrieve them. So how do you uncover the > names of the keys? Is there a comprehensive key list somewhere that I've > yet to discover? As in some sort of search function? There isn't one. There used to be keylists, but I don't think any of them are active right now (and Freenet has too many problems to make them useful, anyway). To find keys, you basically have to get links from other people. Either from the few freesites mentioned on the FProxy page, or from friends. - -- panic: can't find / -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzzjjMACgkQqpueKcacfLS8NwCdHoYVKSt6Jo5tuuStkBmspn+J kF8AnjkjTlb3S36wQ1jy+5asMZSXViEb =dyCC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: Freedom of speech
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 <> > I may have missed this part of the conversation, but why not just > post it on freenet? Because right now, it's a miracle if Freenet works at all. - -- X windows: It could be worse, but it'll take time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjz8+pIACgkQqpueKcacfLR1zgCgjCymmMbsMy1Jjnd9P9SVzgxB CMYAoKzkNjVCnT7pJtLcrgS1xh5JrVm+ =fO+x -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Describing Freenet/Bandwidth features of Freenet (was Re: Freedom of speech)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 04 June 2002 19:33, Revenant wrote: > Greg Wooledge wrote: > > > > Let's start with this: Freenet is an anonymous, decentralized data > > storage and retrieval system. The physical resources are provided by > > volunteer nodes around the world. Data (content) may be inserted > > into Freenet by anybody. Tracking the source of data insertions is > > possible, but difficult; and *proving* that you were the source of a > > data insertion might well be impossible in a fair court of law. Data > > requests are likewise anonymous. > > I tend to describe freenet as a peer-to-peer alternative to the world > wide web. (I stay the hell away from the term "file sharing" because > it's such a loaded term, and barely touches on what freenet is anyway). One of the worst things you can do is compare Freenet to the web or file sharing protocols. Freenet is basicly a routing protocol that sits over TCP/IP (though other transport/network layers are possible). While IP routes to a specific machine, Freenet routes to a specific peice of data. - -- I have never seen anything fill up a vacuum so fast and still suck. --Rob Pike, on X. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjz8+34ACgkQqpueKcacfLRW2QCfbemvmiIJcLeDxZMfwQwR5gm0 aLUAn0BGh+VUqBc8KwhBFdOMVuLsRnbw =yFJ5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: Describing Freenet
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 <> > Why do you think comparing Freenet to the web is "one of the worst > things you can do"? It _is_ essentially a WWW analogue isn't it? <> No. The web is all about storage of data. Freenet is about routing. You can lie to average people all you want (people are lied to enough for the sake of "dumbing down"), but it is *not* a web analogue. - -- There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and BSD. We don't believe this to be a coincidence. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0At+cACgkQqpueKcacfLQgpACeMqfLf4U9kGvpU0t78e1SRx8R YpYAoJObdfBlaVMUE1nuan+h0RNkQbEl =mEdF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: Describing Freenet
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 07 June 2002 08:47, Mark J Roberts wrote: > Timm Murray: > > No. The web is all about storage of data. Freenet is about routing. > > You can lie to average people all you want (people are lied to enough for > > the sake of "dumbing down"), but it is *not* a web analogue. > > Sure it is. What would you prefer to compare it to? RIP, IGRP, OSPF, etc. Not very convienant for your non-techie, but more accurate, IMHO. - -- Real programmers don't bring brown-bag lunches. If the vending machine doesn't sell it, they don't eat it. Vending machines don't sell quiche. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0AwVUACgkQqpueKcacfLSHJACfRZRN6baM8u6kp6SqbZqxJdNV u6MAoIm8D5AIKMFB91mzZ6W9ptemUzLT =BEsz -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: Describing Freenet
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 07 June 2002 09:35, Mark J Roberts wrote: > Timm Murray: > > RIP, IGRP, OSPF, etc. Not very convienant for your non-techie, but more > > accurate, IMHO. > > I'm so happy to not know what those abbreviations mean. Though I > suspect they have something to do with IP itself. They're routing protocols. They're used to update tables within a router to figure out what the next hop should be for a given packet. > > Tell me, can I look at HTML or publish files with them? Do you > access them through a web browser by default? No, a regular user wouldn't touch them at all. Which is my point: the web is just one application of the Internet. The web (and e-mail, I suppose) is probably the most visible application of the net, and many people believe that "Internet" and "WWW" are synonyms. However, saying that the web is the Internet is extremely limiting. - -- X windows: The art of incompetence. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0A18oACgkQqpueKcacfLRHLACcDpQ2qs6FU6D4f8BV7NbbHJLN U0kAn2cvXKKsufAsaLKfhvKrQU0/ddp/ =vOxH -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Weird man, Very
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 07 June 2002 14:01, Aaron Ingebrigtsen wrote: > From: David T-G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Weird man, Very > >Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 13:38:37 -0500 > > > >I just have to answer here that he may not be entirely off base -- > >and that opening up to that thought might actually be beneficial for > >you. Asthma is a defined medical term; it names a particular disease. > >Asthmatic is a symptomatic descriptive term which simply means "relating > >to breathing with a whistling sound". The disease certainly implies a > >high probability of the behavior, but such behavior is not conclusive > >proof of the disease. > > That makes no sense at all. If the word ASTHMA means "Breathing with a > Whistling sound" then how can breathing with a whistling sound NOT mean > ASTHMA?!! Freaking moronic medical community, full of crakpots!! <> The dictionary tends to list the lay-definitions of a given term. In any technical feild, such terms may be redefined in more precise ways. I found a site a while back that listed a dozen definitions of "electricity", from technical fields and more lay-definitions, most of which were conflicting with each other. (Sorry, I can't seem to find the exact site now, but I found a site with similar inforation: http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/miscon/whyhard1.html#def). - -- X windows: The art of incompetence. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0BDaIACgkQqpueKcacfLRG4ACgp0gwdNoDI7hUMckGVwxBK4Pf D1EAn1q2jdIicGnqWLp4/3gdyGswR97c =//LR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: permanent vs transient
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 08 June 2002 19:51, Greg Wooledge wrote: > Revenant ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > To take the extreme example, a system based around all transient > > nodes would require greater 'mirroring' of any given piece of data. > > [...] > > I don't understand this part at all. A Freenet with all transient > nodes cannot insert anything at all. No node will be able to contact > any other node, because nobody's accepting incoming connections. > > Maybe you're misunderstanding what "transient" means in this case. We're > not talking about nodes that are up part of the time and down part of > the time. We're talking about nodes that have "transient=true" in their > freenet.conf (or freenet.ini) file. These aren't really Freenet nodes > at all; they do not participate in the routing and data storage parts > of Freenet. In particular, they do not permit incoming connections from > other nodes. All they can do is leech. Back in the 0.2 days (and I doubt things have changed in this regard), I belive "transient node" was defined as a node that never sets the "DataSource" fields in FNP to itself. If you knew what the node referance is for a transient node, you could still request and insert things from it like any other node. However, the network as a whole has no means to find out what the node referance is. - -- "If that makes any sense to you, you have a big problem." --C. Durance, Computer Science 234 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0CtxIACgkQqpueKcacfLS4TQCeOxHwC2GuGr7MMYKl8AbxEPhC uHkAn1YD+usT9ljb9Meh/rGembSa2TEG =9tbl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: Permanent vs Transient
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 <> > >There we go with the terminology again. Please don't use the word > >"transient" to mean something other than "a node that has set > >transient=true in the freenet.conf or freenet.ini file". Call it > >something else. "Temporary node" would be my first choice. > > Ok, I've got a pretty good idea of what the word "Transient" means in the > english language, so please don't tell me that it only can possibly mean a > node that has Transient=True set, or whatever, because that isn't what the > ENGLISH WORD MEANS!!! But, in order to clarify everything, I will use the > words "Temporary node" just to make you guys happy, ok?! Again, technical fields NEED to redefine words into more precise meanings. My dictionary gives this definition (among a few others) of "transient": adj. 1) Passing away with time; not permanent; temporary; transitory This works somewhat for Freenet. However, isn't is possible that you could set "transient=true" in your node's config file and still have it up 24/7? Such a node is not "transient" according to the dictionary definition, but it is as far as Freenet is concerned. Also, I disagree with the definition of "transient means 'transient=true' in the config file", because it focuses the attention on implementation rather than design. A transient node was defined long ago as a node that never sets the "Source" field of a "DataRequest" message to itself. Within Fred, saying "transient=true" has this very effect, but my definition works within the design of Freenet. Thus, it will always work with non-Fred Freenet nodes (should there ever be any). - -- About the use of language: It is impossible to sharpen a pencil with a blunt ax. It is equally vain to try to do it with ten blunt axes instead. --Edsger Dijkstra -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0HoFUACgkQqpueKcacfLRRrQCgwsYnuFCcBYzGs76X3JCAatF7 opMAmwQmgfoHSosSWMnaCNTP4LsOh2Kc =haoE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Why don't any dystopian plots feature Big Brother teleporting people around?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 12 June 2002 15:23, Mark J Roberts wrote: > It's pretty compelling, isn't it? No. What does gravity smell like? - -- A language that doesn't have everything is actually easier to program in than some that do. --Dennis M. Ritchie -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0Hsq8ACgkQqpueKcacfLT6DQCfbvDekvHpWipy8ELqgWHw16lt hIkAnj3AuC+oEp7+qO/jO2nc2j3bRM/f =P85u -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Sayýn chat ,
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 It's just spam. Don't worry about it. On Tuesday 18 June 2002 06:27, Ana Ribero dos Santos wrote: > on 18.06.02 06:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I don't know what language this is. It is very difficult to translate a > foriegn language when I don't know what language it is. Could someone > please help out? > > On Sat, 8 Jun 2002 20:24:54 +0300 "abdyesilkart.com" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Sayýn chat , > > Amerika 'nýn her sene yapmakta olduðu, sahiplerine devamlý oturma ve > çalýÞma izni saðlayan Green Card çekiliÞi için kayýtlarýmýz baÞlamýÞtýr. > > > Hi Krepta > > I myself doubt about the existance of such language, possibly someone > pulling on our legs > > > > Ana Ribeiro dos Santos Explanation avoids understanding > ([EMAIL PROTECTED])J.Cage > > http://www.fotopt.net/autor.asp?=6573 - -- The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to constants; instead of referring to pi as 3.12159265353589793 at every appearance, the variable PI can be given that value with a DATA statement and used instead of the longer form of the constant. This also simplifies modifying the program, should the value of pi change. --FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0PM60ACgkQqpueKcacfLRbxwCgwdB7kLffSH1Vy21f5wb3XVZG 2U0AoJt+hXetpBLqLBPkwJL0hwQocl2s =CGKQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] newbie question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 01 July 2002 08:58, Thad Eckard wrote: > Is there anything in a regular Internet Web page that Freenet does not > handle for those pages created for Freenet, in Freenet? For instance, can > pages viewed through Freenet programs include Flash movies? How about > Javascript information like pop-up windows? How about frames? I'm assuming > that since I use the same browser to view Freenet pages that I use to > browse the Internet with, all the above work regardless of where the pages > come from. Right? Yes, those things should work, though FProxy's security may cause trouble with a few of them. What won't work is anything that is done server-side: CGI scripts, SSIs, etc. - -- Unix is the worst operating system; except for all the others. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAj0gmA0ACgkQqpueKcacfLSiPQCePMisdVvvOtFriPXU6bt5j8YV r80AoJXOl9rlp/vWYGCWQPmsXV1mWboE =kmRY -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hawk.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Freenet crypto question
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 07:22, David McNab wrote: > Given the (public, private) keypair that is used for inserting and > retrieving SVK@ and SSK@ keys: > > Is there any encryption method that can encrypt an arbitrary block of > data, using only an SSK pubkey, such that the data can only be decrypted > with the corresponding privkey? > > If so, what would the algorithm be? > Is there any code lying around from which such encryption could be done? Sure. That's how public key crypto normaly works. I think Oskar's response to this was: "I have no idea why you would want to do this". So whatever you're thinking of doing, remember that you risk Oskar bringing down fire from heaven if you implement it. Oh, and you should have remembered from your previous time spent around the project that few, if any of the developers are on the -chat list. Also, this list has practically died in the time you've been away. -- Timm Murray GPG Key: E4E143C6 Fingerprint: 591D DD8C 078C 7D45 ECE6 7B04 B62A 02C0 E4E1 43C6 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s+: a-- C++() UL++> P+++>+$ L++>+$ !E W--@ N++@ !o !K w--- O@ M !V !PS !PE Y+(++) PGP+++ t@ 5+++ X@ R tv b++() DI++@ D+(++) G e* h* r->r+++ y? --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [freenet-chat] Things seem quiet
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 17:28, David McNab wrote: > Hi all, > > On coming back to the Freenet project, I see some things have changed. > > On one hand, there's a deathly quiet in these mailing lists, and in > the #freenet IRC channel. > > But on the other hand, there's this vast array of new freesites and > index sites. > > Two very conflicting indications about the health of the project. > > Lastest fred code seems to be behaving itself nicely with no surprises. > Much better than when last I looked 3 months ago. > > To save me from the arduous task of combing through months of email > archives, does anyone want to offer some comments on the state of play > in the Land of Hops? The chat list is completely dead. The dev list is mostly posts on the latest fproxy bug, or on some arcane bit of documentation that hasn't been updated in three years. Ian was hired by the NSA. Travis Beamann became a Republican. MJR gave up coding in favor of knitting. AGL is working for Microsoft. And Marcel is nowhere to be seen (yay!). -- Timm Murray GPG Key: E4E143C6 Fingerprint: 591D DD8C 078C 7D45 ECE6 7B04 B62A 02C0 E4E1 43C6 -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCS d- s+: a-- C++() UL++> P+++>+$ L++>+$ !E W--@ N++@ !o !K w--- O@ M !V !PS !PE Y+(++) PGP+++ t@ 5+++ X@ R tv b++() DI++@ D+(++) G e* h* r->r+++ y? --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [freenet-chat] FW: Please help with a Global Vigil for Peace
On Thu, 2003-03-13 at 22:52, Mark J Roberts wrote: > Nicholas Sturm: > > Seems that with a few billion residence of this planet, some have > > not yet become aware of the strategy being used -- and hope they > > can make a killing. I still favor education for those who might > > be a little gullible -- as obvious as the scam may be to most. > > We are truly in your debt, great teacher. I genuinely admire you. Hey, Nicholas, it's generally a good idea to refrain from getting into flame wars with MJR. His statements just get more and more incomprehinsibly insane as time goes on. Just ask Travis. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
[freenet-chat] (no subject)
> At 07:35 PM 12/30/2001 -0500, "Thad Eckard" wrote: > >Should my port number say "0" ? > >I am having problems getting started and getting useful information on how > >to get started. > > > >Thanks. > > > If you are planning on running a transient node, then I would assume this > is OK. If you are planning on running a non-transient node, this is not so > good. Can you tell which port number is 0 or what it is that is showing > your port number to be 0? Can you tell if the port number you are seeing > that is 0 is what is called the listening port? Are you on Windows or some > other operating system? I am not too familiar with setting up a node on > Windows. IIRC, nothing can sit on port 0, transient or not. ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] pirates of silicon valley
> I just watched that move, Pirates of Silicon Valley, and have gained a new > hatred for Microsoft and Bill Gates. But, the Mac people, especialy Steve > Jobs, aren't all that much better, moraly. Jobs' people basicaly stole > thier GUI technology from Xerox, but only because the Xerox execs were > morons. You may want to look at Woz's personal page, where he published a lot of e-mail he got about that movie. It's all at www.woz.org/letters/pirates/. He states that, although some of the events in the movie appeared out chronological order in real life, the personallities of the people involved are quite accurate. The GUI thing is just one of the many technologies Xerox created for somebody else to profit from. It seemed to be a curse of the now-defunct Xerox PARC research group. ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] distributed networking Hardware
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 19 April 2002 14:23, Aaron Ingebrigtsen wrote: > I started pondering recently over distributed networking, which is > obviously being achieved by Freenet, but I was thinking more along the > lines of Hardware. The network architecture here at school is Ethernet, > with hubs and servers and a backbone and stuff. I asked my teacher if it > would be possible to connect a bunch of computers toghether with Ethernet > without useing any central servers. He said that it could be done, but I > would have to use a hub. Yes, doing a P2P network like that has been used for a long time. SMB (which is used in Windows networking) is really designed to operate in a P2P manner. However, it has been extended into a more client-server network, first with WINS and later with Active Directory. Much of Microsoft's documentations says not to use P2P with anything more then 10 hosts. Most network adminstrators I've met are more pessmistic then that; they usualy say 5 hosts. SMB does use an awful lot of broadcasting, even when you use it in a client-server manner, so this really hurts it's scalability. Humorously scary fact: NetBIOS (one of the networking layers SMB can use), was never designed to route. Some people say "NetBIOS does not cross routers", but this is not entirely accurate. If it isn't explicitly denied on SNA routers, NetBIOS will broadcast itself accross the entire network *shudder*. - -- DOS Air: All the passengers go out onto the runway, grab hold of the plane, push it until it gets in the air, hop on, jump off when it hits the ground again. Then they grab the plane again, push it back into the air, hop on, et cetra. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzA+CEACgkQqpueKcacfLSTIQCdEvUY9zSokOJBFaNTDz4K483I RxAAn2W4EFbrTS80zqFQafUUGgaMGaUW =bHvr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] distributed networking Hardware
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 19 April 2002 14:23, Aaron Ingebrigtsen wrote: <> > They seem to be constantly recieving data even when > the OS hasn't loaded any drivers for working with the NIC. <> If it seems like they are always receiving data, that is because they are. Below is a quick introduction to how networking works. There are two layers we are concerned with here: (1) Physical and (2) Data Link (there are five others in the most common networking model (OSI), but these are the important ones for our discussion). The Physical layer is basicaly a wire (or fiber or radio waves or whatever) and the bits that travel over it. Nothing particularly inteligent--it just provides a way to make electrons (or photons) from one place to another. Repeaters and hubs are layer 1 devices, as well. This part is done purely in hardware (usually). The Data Link layer creates some logical orginization to a network. You have some sort of address (for Ethernet, this is a MAC address), but no actual routing takes place. The addresses are just there to provide some way to make each computer unique on the network. NICs, bridges, and switches are layer 2 devices. This part is partialy done in software, but is done mostly in hardware. So why are your computer's constantly receiving data? Well, think of the situation where you need to run Ethernet beyond it's 100 meter limit. You get a repeater (a layer 1 device), which has the sole job of taking the signal in one end, strengthening it, and spewing it out the other end. The two end points on the system might as well be on the same wire. To get a hub, you basically stick a bunch of repeaters together; in other words, hubs are just multiport repeaters. So, all computers connected to a hub might as well be connected to a single wire. Now you ask "since they are all on the same 'wire', what happens when two machines try to talk at once?" Answer: You get a collision. In a collision, the signal is destroyed bit-by-bit. All devices on that "wire" notice this and stop sending data for a random ammount of time and then start resending. In general, the more devices you have on that hub (or "collision domain"), the more likely collisions will happen, thus reducing your total throughput (because the collisions stop everyone from sending stuff). (To the gurus: Yes, I know I'm ignoring Token Ring networks. Nobody cares about Token Ring anymore, so just shut up :) Taking our example further, let's say you have two hubs that you want to connect together. You are worried, however, that this will make your collision domain much too large. No problem, just use a bridge. A bridge, being a layer two device, knows something about the addresses being used on each side. If machine A sends something to machine B, and they are both on the same hub, the bridge knows that it shouldn't forward the traffic onto the second hub. Thus, the bridge has split your collision domain, otherwise known as "segmenting". Remeber how hubs are really just multiport repeaters? What happens when you create a multiport bridge? You get a switch. Switches basicaly saved Ethernet, because without them, collision domains can quickly get too large to handle. Like a bridge, a switch will remember what MAC addresses are on each port, and are thus able to make forwarding decisions. Switches are usually more expensive than hubs, and create slightly higher latenices (since they actually have to do some work), but throughput is increased to near-maximum for each switch port. The usual network configuration is to use hubs on the workstations, then connect those hubs into switches (servers are often, but not always, directly connected to switches). If the orginization can afford it, it will get the Nirvana of Networking . . . that is, having a network which has no hubs at all. This is called a "microsegmented" network. There is probably a lot more information up there then you really wanted to know, but I hope I answered your question somewhere in there :) - -- C Code. C Code Run. Run, Code, RUN! PLEASE -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzA9JwACgkQqpueKcacfLSG2QCfTFSIaxy+2YN1mZ8FHUl/EwLB 9oEAoLEaOSV3iaG2P8C38dZTtmM/Na0l =URiQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] distributed networking Hardware
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 20 April 2002 19:32, krepta at juno.com wrote: <> > So thats why the network sometimes just goes down, or parts of it anyway. > Signal collisions!!! Jeeze. :( Well, collisions are not the sole source of network problems, but they are often a major one. > > (To the gurus: Yes, I know I'm ignoring Token Ring networks. > > Nobody cares > > about Token Ring anymore, so just shut up :) > > Is Token Ring better? If so, why aren't people useing it? For starters, Token Ring's maximum speed is 16 Mbps, compared to 100 Mbps being used in most Ethernet networks (and Ethernet has been pushed even higher then that). Token Ring's one redeaming quality is that collisions don't happen. Think of some of the old Native American tribes having a meeting, and they pass around a big stick or some other emblem. Only the person who has the big stick is allowed to talk. Likewise, Token Ring networks pass around a "token", and only the machine that has the token is allowed to talk. In contrast, Ethernet's meathod is to stick everyone in a room and everybody shouts at once (ignoring the effects of microsegmentation, of course). Personally, I've always had a problem with Token Ring. There is something about not talking whenever you bloody well feel like it that rubs me the wrong way. <> > What is a latinice? Do you mean Latency? I've noticed that word being > used on Network Games like X-wing Vs. Tie Fighter, but I didn't know what > it meant, other than signal speed or something. Latency is the ammount of time it takes for a packet to travel from one computer to be processed on another. The "ping" program is typically used to measure latency; it works by sending a packet from your computer to some other computer, at which point the other computer responds. It then figures out how long it was between sending the packet and receiving the response. Note that the lantency within a game is typically much higher then what you see from the "ping" program, as the game is also measuring how long it is taking for the *application* to respond, which adds a good ammount of extra processing power to the mix. <> > How about hooking in some kind of RAM that can be used as a buffer inside > a switch so that it will forward the data when a machine is ready to > recieve it? They do use a buffer. The exact size of the buffer will depend on how good ($$$) the switch is. <> > Yah I would love to hook up a massive network of nothing but > switches, no hubs!!! But it still seems to me like there would be WAY > too many "Shared Resources" on a serverless network, even a > "microsegmented" one, to be any real use to any large organization. I > would still really like to put Freenet nodes into every PC to make the > entire network act like one massive server. You probably wouldn't want to use Freenet for that, since Freenet isn't designed with permenance of data in mind. You might want to do some reasearch on distributed file systems. <> > Would DHCP automatic IP addressing be able to work on a "microsegmented" > network just like on a HUB network? Yes. <> - -- A computer without COBOL is like cake without mustard. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzCOcYACgkQqpueKcacfLRunACdGxcRq50jXctFxLH5vhQdkf3p RnMAmQGFLTMwYQ9GSme5vgDzOPc1f43O =GTQ1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] distributed networking Hardware
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 22 April 2002 13:31, Aaron Ingebrigtsen wrote: > From: Timm Murray > > >Reply-To: chat at freenetproject.org > >To: chat at freenetproject.org > >Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] distributed networking Hardware > >Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:02:10 -0500 > > > >Well, collisions are not the sole source of network problems, but they are > >often a major one. > > Well, if I was able to, I would do everything in my power to reduce data > collisions. I would really also like to reduce centralization as much as > possible. If just one hub goes out, a whole section of the network goes > down. If you are useing one central switching machine for a large group of > machines, that is a weak point. > > >For starters, Token Ring's maximum speed is 16 Mbps, compared to 100 Mbps > > Couldn't someone figure out a way to improve that speed? Probably, but nobody seems to care anymore. Even IBM doesn't care, and they invented the fool thing. > > >being used in most Ethernet networks (and Ethernet has been pushed even > >higher then that). > > > >Token Ring's one redeaming quality is that collisions don't happen. Think > >of > >some of the old Native American tribes having a meeting, and they pass > >around > >a big stick or some other emblem. Only the person who has the big stick > > is allowed to talk. > > That is kind of the way internal hardware on a PC is set up. Each device > gets to talk to the processor, but the processor can't handle haveing ALL > the devices talking at the same time, so they all have IRQs, or priority > levels, or whatever you want the think of it as. If a device with IRQ 1 > wants to talk, the processor stops what it is doing and listens. If any > other devices also want to talk, they have to wait for the more important > devices to finish first. But it sounds to me like Token ring doesn't care > about importance or priority, it just passes permision around and around, > again and again, the way a Monitor passes a beam across the screen again > and again. :( That doesn't sound too efficient to me. A CPU can prioritize because it CAN prioritize. It would take quite a bit more for that to happen on a network. > > >Likewise, Token Ring networks pass around a "token", and only the machine > >that > >has the token is allowed to talk. In contrast, Ethernet's meathod is to > >stick everyone in a room and everybody shouts at once (ignoring the > > effects of microsegmentation, of course). > > This also seems like a terrible way to handle things. I would much prefer > direct routing to and from individual machines, instead of broadcasting or > Carousel networking. "Routing" only happens at the next layer up from here. The purpase of the bottom two layers (physical and data link) is to provide a physical means to move the bits through and to have some way of pushing data to a specific machine. Routing is moving the bits between networks. If you are following the model correctly, there is no such thing as "direct routing" as you mean it here. > Thats what I wanna call Token Ring, Carousel > networking. :) You can only throw your token at the target on the wall > when you come around to it. I think Token Ring could be a lot better if > you could increase the speed at wich the thing passes the token around. You'll have to ask God to increase the speed of light. > If > each machine is allowed to send or recieve ONE BYTE of data before the > token gets passed, and the passing is very very VERY fast, then it could be > a nice way to do things. Maybe. It's not just one byte of data, it's an entire "frame" (the layer 2 equivilent of a "packet" (roughly)). <> > Ach, the permanence of data thing can easily be dealt with by backing up > valuable data that no one seems to be useing very much. Then just reinsert > the data off of a CD-ROM or something. Hey, I have an idea, you guys > should build a special kind of technique into freenet so that you can > provide an optional ARCHIVE for a freenet node to get stuff from. <> This has been discussed to death. The problem isn't the actual archiving. The problem is that nodes lose the referances to the files and thus have no way of routing to the correct machine that holds the data. It has been conjectured that having permenant data on Freenet while keeping within the project's goals is impossible. - -- Real programmers don't eat quiche. They eat Twinkies and Szechwan food. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjzEpDgACgkQqpueKcacfLQTqwCeI20cL04fRu17cejovpk+IvkL TCUAnA2qkCK/xO8taoWSpgctbZEiqqyr =edTp -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] Important! IAN IS A TERRORIST!!!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
You remind me of mjr, but without the intelligence. Are you, by any chance, a
perl script?
On Tuesday 23 April 2002 20:34, mikeeusa at caethaver2.ath.cx wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Scott G. Miller wrote:
> No problem :)
>
> > Thanks Mike. Your ineptitude and arrogance has brightened my day!
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 22, 2002 at 11:30:08PM -0400, mikeeusa at caethaver2.ath.cx
wrote:
> > > Obvously a communist plot:
> > >sanity: terrorism!
> > >w
> > >freenet == terrorism!!!
> > >mikeeusa: don't make me ban you again
> > >It's like having our own little george bush
> > >unamerikan!!!
> > >mikeeusa: do you know any 10 year olds?
> > >sanity: what am I doing wrong? Do you dislike cyber
> > > TERRORISM or something?
> > >mikeeusa: i am hoping they could give you tips on growing up
> > >of course I know 10 yr olds! Im a PEDOPHILE!!!
> > >oops did i say that?
> > >i mean, getting kicked from every channel must get boring
> > > after a while?
> > >...yet you have been doing it for months
> > >cough hypocrate cough
> > >cough i spelt it wrong cough
> > >i think?
> > >i would expect nothing less that you
> > >did i
> > > * thelema is happily missing half this conversation, having /ignore
> > > mikeeusa all
> > >hypocrite
> > >hrm
> > >clever
> > >pff
> > >oh yeah
> > > (TERRORISM AT WORK:)
> > > --- You have been kicked from #freenet by sanity
> > > (Notice >sanity< == freedome fighter)
> > > ( *sanity* == terrorist! )
> > >
> > > >sanity< wtf
> > > >sanity< hypocrate
> > >
> > > *sanity* don't say you weren't warned
> > >
> > > >sanity< You support free speach but are anti free thought
> > >
> > > *sanity* no, i am anti-irritating prick
> > > *sanity* you can think whatever you want
> > >
> > > >sanity< But i cant speak it?
> > > >sanity< hrmm
> > > >sanity< Oh well guess ill have to bust out my shellz!!
> > > >sanity< And why nod DoS every fnet node I can find while im at it
> > >
> > > (Here the good citizen contomplates saving the world from red
> > > terrorism)
> > >
> > > >sanity< not like it'll matter as they dont work anyway
> > >
> > > (But, sadly, backs down)
> > >
> > > >sanity< I must remember its not the networks fault that it was
> > > > concived
> > >
> > > by an eleet java artisht that codes for shit
> > >
> > > >sanity< Seirously why do I encourage my friends to run your broken
> > >
> > > network?
> > > *sanity* please don't - just go away
> > >
> > > >sanity< Oh so your making your personal feelings superceede the
> > > > wellbeing
> > >
> > > of the network?
> > > *sanity* you should really invest in a dictionary
> > > (like REAL ameicans havetime for a dictionary, Ian shows his true
> > > colors...)
> > > *sanity* ...and a life
> > > (A weakly masked treat of bio-war made by IAN [if that is his/her real
> > > name!])
> > >
> > > >sanity< Why, I know what all the words mean
> > > >sanity< I have a life
> > > >sanity< perl
> > >
> > > *sanity* it is all clear now
> > >
> > > >sanity< I would expect that comment from you
> > >
> > > *sanity* why don't you reimplement freenet in perl then? you are more
> > > than welcome to
> > >
> > > >sanity< Because its protocall sucks
> > > >sanity< Why would I reimplement brokenness?
> > >
> > > (READS: "Why would i support terror?")
> > >
> > > >sanity< A redesign would be in order
> > >
> > > ("Terrorism is bad")
> > > *sanity* what specifically would you change?
> > > (Alludes to his "super genuious" mentality, which all terrorist
> > > flaunt!)
> > >
> > > >sanity< Why do I continue to devote 1/2 my bandwith to your network
> > > >sanity< Much of the stuff you broke
> > >
> > > *sanity* you seem to devote most of your bandwidth to uttering
> > > childish comments to people who aren't interested
> > > (Shows how terrorist think all non-terrorist activities are "childish")
> > > *sanity* do you honestly expect a positive reaction?
> > > (Weak mask for "I am going to nuke Seven major american cities for the
> > > sake of ALLAH" (Allah means "father" in the real true american
> > > language, this is just a sick terrorist perversion of the great word))
> > > *sanity* you need to understand - YOU AREN'T FUNNY - you are just
> > > annoying ("IAN" is really saying "I am going to kill you and rape your
> > > first born" which is terrorist lexion for "I'm giong to kill you" in
> > > american)
> > >
> > > >sanity< now that is an utterly foolish remark, text on IRC dosent
> > > > take up
> > >
> > > much bw
> > >
> > > >sanity< I assumed you knew that though
> > >
> > > *sanity* there you go again
> > >
> > > >sanity< mabe that is why the network is staggering
> > > >sanity< "you seem to devote most of your bandwidth to uttering
> > > > childish
> > >
> > > comments to people who aren't int
[freenet-chat] freenet at school
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 11 April 2002 15:45, Aaron Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Well, they are letting me mess around with my own hard drive here at > school. Formating, installing OSes, and all kinds of stuff. :) I even > installed drivers and things. One of the things I got installed and > working on my lab PC is Freenet. But I can't tell whether it is working on > the network or not. Would Freenet report any inability to connect to other > nodes? If you can request something, it's working. - -- X windows: The Cutting Edge of Obsolenscence. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjy2BDgACgkQqpueKcacfLTxlwCeJMgrtCjlBk2At+UifQvNLgrO p7IAoLGlPM66bpNuQwvUERGH/PMyi3kS =ILMh -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [freenet-devl] Re: April Fools Day
> David Allen: > > Maybe I'm just a humorless bastard, but I didn't think that one in > > particular was very funny. > > Last year's was just incomparably better: > > http://www.uwsg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0104.0/0007.html Yeah, last year's was better. Although I liked his description of RMS this year, where he described him as an open source advocate. I must wonder if RMS himself realized it was a joke . . . Most of the online jokes were crap this year. Though the IPoXML RFC was pretty good (a.k.a. the BLOAT protocol). I don't think it compares to the Infinate Monkey protocol. > > Neither of them fooled anyone, but at least that was funny. > > > IMHO a good April fools joke should include confusion, humor, > > and maybe a spoonful of the incredulous, but it shouldn't be > > intentionally aimed at just pissing a whole lot of people off (like > > the slashdot "jokes"). I guess it depends on where the joke is > > targeted. Is it supposed to be funny for just the person playing the > > joke, or everyone? > > No. If that were the point, we'd call the occasion something like > April Joke or April Happy Silly Funny Day. > > Do they really have anything offensive on slashdot? Slashdot itself. ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] DVD recording?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 07 February 2002 20:02, you wrote: > I got a message in my email, from some unknown solicitor, about a program > that supposedly lets you record DVD disks with only a regular CDR or CDRW > drive, no DVDR drive. It said that you can copy DVD disks with only a > CDR/W and a DVD drive. The program costs about $30, and the ad compared > that to the $4000 it would cost to get a DVDR drive. Most likely, they're just using some lossy compression like DivX to get the movie down to CD-R size. DivX is freely available right now. Further, DVD-R drives are more like $400, not $4000 (though I beileve it is quite a bit more for commercial-quality burners). - -- Overflow on /dev/null, please empty the bit bucket. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxjTCoACgkQqpueKcacfLTKrwCglrcb2bdMuSzxziTc8EX1lFRb opsAoIm841qB+go7MGzbZMCXcwpCvded =AMJ4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Censorship
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 07 February 2002 20:13, you wrote: <> > I grew up with symptoms completely consistent with the diagnostic > protocols for ADD/ADHD, and now enjoy a life completely free of that > condition. I do owe my healing to a process seen in some quarters to > be at least as controversial as CoS. Using a similar process, my wife > freed herself of diabetes and epilepsy. ADD is quite often diagnosed among hackers and other techies. This may explain why hackers often cite strongly caffinated beverages as a drink-of-choice, because caffeine has a simlar melcular shape to ritalin (sp?). Many hackers also agree with the CoS in this respect that ADD is extremly over-diagnosed (although disagreeing that "only the CoS can help restructure your brain to fight ADD" and all that junk). - -- Given enough thrust, pigs can fly. But you don't want to be under them when they hit the ground. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxjTiAACgkQqpueKcacfLR6igCcDoHFb7jhHMUZrTR73zm8Kf0X PKQAoMLe1Vcm/heKeWG0o/7Lk/bAMLtg =DfAd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Another Clarke-Darcy dust up
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sheesh, you two are worse than MJR and Bemman. On Tuesday 19 February 2002 15:45, you wrote: > I thought people might be interested/amused in another dust-up Jeff > Darcy and I are having. He is now arguing that Freenet developers are > inept due to the length of time we have been working on the project :- > "So how is it that Linux kernel developers manage to make progress so > much faster than those oh-so-talented Freenet developers?". > > Ho hum. > > http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2002/2/17/203032/375?pid=11#25 - -- There should be an old-fasioned platform game starring Tux . . . and you hit the CD to toss Bill Gates into the lava and then see a little picture of RMS that says "Thanks for saving me Tux, but Linus Torvalds is in another castle!" --Seen on irc.openprojects.net, #debian -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxy3nMACgkQqpueKcacfLTcJgCfaBsK2MeDfdoQu631Nc6rUJIp NUoAnRk/Zu40eY/5Xf+Wda3yeOlrQ2+b =6TOa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Useing Freenet without a Local Client
> If you know someone with a home computer, you can connect to their Freenet > node using just your web browser and pointing it at their Fproxy port. I'm > sure that eventually there'll be public gateways to Freenet as well, but I > haven't seen one yet. The person has to say to give public access in their configuration. There have been some public nodes around, but their use is strongly discouraged. ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] the coming storm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 07 January 2002 11:21, you wrote: > Hi,I have been reading all your mail regarding "coming storm" with > interest. If one knows the history of America one comes to the conclusion > that it is a Country which could be best described as totalitarian. Being > British i am used to total freedom in my way of life my government does not > tell me i cannot visit a certain country because it is classified as > "rogue". As far as i know we have never had a McCarthy type incident in > Britain The reason a whole bunch of people left Britan for this side of the Atlantic was to get away from McCarthy-type activities (Quakers, Puritans, etc.) - -- I have never seen anything fill up a vacuum so fast and still suck. --Rob Pike, on X. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjw5/m4ACgkQqpueKcacfLTXIACfQD8eRlySFop36nwE+qRMDKx1 agoAnjk/SxEUnTe6CGqBiENRXgXT7YMw =7QnD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] deep philosophical question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 January 2002 03:30, you wrote: > On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:54:49 -0800 > > "Josh" wrote: > > Is spam free speech? > > I think everybody wants to answer NO, but i think it is free speech. I don't mind spam (or any other kind of advertising) provided I have a way of filterting it out. A good idea might be to require all unsolicited bulk e-mail to include an "X-Advertising" (or something similar) in the e-mail headers, and give a $100 fine (payed to the people who received the spam) for those that don't. That'll make it really easy to write e-mail clients (or even e-mail servers) that can filter that out. Then put a nice little button on your e-mail client that says "report this message for spam" so when there is a message that isn't including the header, you can quickly send it off somewhere so the lawyers can run rabid on the sender. The only problem I see with this is spammers setting up servers in a country without such a law. I wouldn't consider spam "trespassing" or compare it to facisim. I do consider it trespassing when certain websites add themselves to your bookmarks or make themselves your homepage without even asking (though I suspect such things only work in IE). That is /my/ computer you're altering and I don't accept people who alter /my/ stuff without asking. - -- Timm Murray - --- This message has been encoded ROT26. Decoding is punishable by death under the DMCA. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjwyDqAACgkQqpueKcacfLQbXwCdFbuX96nmw8WW7L5APcxDbq/P my4AoICnFNzyQy9RzGRZxWSolpGjCIyq =kJ5w -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Does Content on Demand have a Future?
> On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 krepta at juno.com wrote: > > > I think Content on Demand has a future. Thats what freenet is. But TV, > > hmmm, I dunno. Advertisers really want people to watch thier stuff at > > particular times of day or night, or during special events like the Super > > Bowl. They will try hard to keep things the way they are for as long as > > possible. But I personaly would LOVE TV on Demand. Just pick a show I > > want to watch and watch it. Thats why I want TIVO or that Microsoft box > > for digital TV recording. > > Until those devices become fully user programmable I refuse to by one > because as long as they are closed black boxes they can be used to limit > what we can do with the recorded videos. I also do not think that TiVo > should only provide the hardware and not require you to also subscribe to > there service, especially since that type of information is easily > available from a number of sources. If you want, you could get a TV-in card that is compatible with Video4Linux and a big hard drive (40-80 GB). Unless you find the right software, you wouldn't get the full range of features you'd get on a TiVo (like skipping commercials), but it'll record of the TV just fine. In fact, my VCR is on the fritz (it only records in black & white, which could probably be fixed by a good cleaning), so I'm thinking about replacing it with a TV-in card. ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] terrorism and Freenet
[I called it "black lantern" below, which was a typo. It's really "magic lantern".] There a lots of reputable news orginzations that have reported this. The FBI has already confirmed it's existance (see http://slashdot.org/article.pl? sid=01/12/13/0249250&mode=nested). Further searches for "magic lantern" on any given news site should bring up some links. > > Specifically, FBI wants Microsoft to add > "Black Lantern" (a keystroke logger) into updated versions of WinXP. > > Your saying that the feds want Microsoft to include it in the release > version of windows? So it will already be installed by default? > > Could you point me to your source? > > -Original Message- > From: chat-admin at freenetproject.org [mailto:chat-admin at > freenetproject.org] > On Behalf Of Timm Murray > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 10:57 AM > To: chat at freenetproject.org > Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] terrorism and Freenet > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Friday 11 January 2002 11:06, you wrote: > > Hello, I edited your email for my response, hope you don't mind. :) > > > > I don't know what this DRM is, > > Digital Rights Management. In theory, it stops "pirates" from illicitly > copied software. In practice, it is likely to stop you from using software > that was legaly copied (like mp3s you ripped from a CD you already own, or > Free Software like GNU/Linux). > > > and I don't know what this involvement > > with the FBI is. > > That has to do with something else. Specifically, FBI wants Microsoft to > add > "Black Lantern" (a keystroke logger) into updated versions of WinXP. > > > And I had no idea that Microsoft had stoped support for > > Win98 and 98se. > > Last I heard, they only stopped for 95; 98 has a few more years yet before > they stop support. Unless the FBI is asking them to stop that, too. > > >I knew they had stoped for 95, both A and B. Please > > give me information. :) I need education. :) By email please, because I > > have no net connection. Thanks. :) > > > > On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:39:05 +0200 (South Africa Standard Time) "Jack > > Sidebottom" writes: > > > > Hi, while I agree with some of the things said here I would like to > > add that(and I don't mean this in a bad way) America is NOT the Internet. > > Laws passed in the States are not binding in other countries in regard to > > the 'net (as much as they would like it to be). > > The internet is, and will remain, (as long as we keep fighting those > > who are trying to control it) GLOBAL. As for "circumventing" such laws > > the answer is in the word you used below - "INFORMATION" If people like > > us, who have a common goal (keeping the Internet free from government and > > big corporation intervention) SHARE our information to help others that > > is a step in the right direction. > > You would be suprised how many people out there no Nothing about > > Microsoft's DRM or magic lantern or a thousand and one other things that > > affect them and their use of the internet ,now and in the Months to come. > > I 'phoned Microsoft in Johannesberg (i live in cape town) this morning > > asking why none of the newspapers in South Africa carried any stories > > about their involvement with the FBI or stopping support for windows > > 95,98,98se,etc: or their patent for DRM, The answer i got was "we try to > > keep it quiet". So as i said we must make sure that ALL this type of > > information is available to everyone and take it from there. Thanks > > Jack. > > > > > > Jack Sidebottom: > > email wordwich at iafrica.com. > > PGP public key: http://pgpkeys.mit.edu.11371 > > idap://certserver.pgp.com > > xx > > TRUTH ONLY TRUTH. > > xx > > > > > > _ > > IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved > > > > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > > > ___ > > Chat mailing list > > Chat at freenetproject.org > > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > - -- > "One Architecture, One OS&qu
[freenet-chat] The Coming Storm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 06 January 2002 21:47, you wrote: <> > I seriously doubt that congress and the president consider you and I to be > expendable. And that's when they reinstitue the draft . . . - -- He's like a function--he returns a value, in the form of his opinion. It's up to you to cast it into void or not. --Phil Lapsley -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjw5H3QACgkQqpueKcacfLSRdgCePAUknJxpySQMJjyF8zLPiB8x MQwAn0suM+EEplhTuy7klrqIU7svE7XN =rkvu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] The Coming Storm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 06 January 2002 21:38, you wrote: > Timm Murray: > > I was about to reply to this, and then realized that MJR was the author, > > in response to Bemann. Never mind :) > > Oh, come on. Wouldn't you enjoy a nice, refreshing flamewar? No, thats what I have Slashdot for. - -- X windows: An accident that couldn't wait to happen. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjw5H5YACgkQqpueKcacfLRt8QCeIKUR75T+Ov7/laqR+qJ6RNAi OBEAoJauOs2u6paEYC66xG+BapKD8hOS =yCUO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] source of spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 09 January 2002 20:48, you wrote: > Hey guys, I've got an off topic question for ya. > > Is it possible to remove our email addresses from the email archives? > > I know that I started getting spam when I first posted on this list, > because it was the first list I've ever joined (haven't been online since > compuserve), and the spam started after that. > > When I search for my email address on the net, the archived messages come > up, and I'm certain that's how my addresses are getting into the spam. > > I'm also switching ISPs so I can get some anti spam features, but I figure > this probably affects all of us, not just me. Perhaps the mailing list software could put some obfuscators on the address (chaning '@' to '[at]' or something like that). - -- If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjw9EcMACgkQqpueKcacfLTiygCgmnWzUq4ldeMs9hdGVqy/QtjH ZdYAoInlwiBUmCzRmRHaF3p6TrbdcX4l =UCC3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] The Coming Storm
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 06 January 2002 22:03, you wrote: > Ok, one more post > > What's pathetic is that America let the cesspool in Afghanistan grow and > multiply into what it is/was. Being that it was America who trained the lot in the first place, I can't say I'm sorry. American did a lot of really dumb things in their cold war against "commuisim". And the war on drugs. And the war against Nazis. And the war against Germany before that. And the Spanish-American war (a US navel ship blew up in a Spanish harbor. It was blamed on the Spanish, the media at the time blew it out of proportion, America went to war, got a lot of territory and became a dominant world power. These days, we're almost certain the incident that began the war was an accident with the ship's boilers). And the civil war. I haven't heard much about the war of 1812 or the Revolutionary war, but I'm sure it's just because I haven't looked hard enough :) In any case, these examples force me to wonder what horrors the American government will commit in their war on terrorisim. > We should have sent in the troops after the > embassy bombings, and especially after the USS Cole was bombed. The fact > that it took an attack in NY and 2000+ lives for us to wake up to this > threat is pathetic. There we're those in the CIA who openly warned us over > 6 months ago that bin laden will likely strike America, and what happened? > Not a damn thing. All clinet did was send submarines to deal with him. > Jesus Christ, submarines to a land locked nation? Tomahawks fly slow. > Clinton should have had the balls to send in the troops sooner. The > Russians were even warning us about bin laden, and recommending military > action. And we ignored all the evidence. That's absolutely pathetic. > Clinton was more interested in doing what the poll's told him to do, than > what was right. I'd rather of had Dan Quale, or some other looser, than > Clinton. As commander in chief he had a job to prevent this crap, we had > many warnings, and look what happened. > > Clinton should have declared saddam Hussein as being in violation of the > cease fire agreement and sent in the troops to finish the job. Instead > we're going to wait until he has nukes and uses them, before we do it > right. Not a single (true) arab leader will miss him. > > We should stop buying oil from the saudi's and start buying it from Russia. > The saudi's are a monarchy, corrupt as shit, and are just a few steps above > the taliban in many ways. And we protect and support them. Something's > wrong here. > > For some reason I usually side with republicans when it comes to foreign > policy. Hmmm... > > -Original Message- > From: chat-admin at freenetproject.org [mailto:chat-admin at > freenetproject.org] > On Behalf Of Mark J Roberts > Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 7:20 PM > To: chat at freenetproject.org > Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] The Coming Storm > > Ian Clarke: > > I took the accusation from a representative of the Church of > > Scientology that *I* was a pedophile as quite a compliment in this > > light > > Oh, I agree entirely, those half-wit commies inevitably resort to > such petty childish name-calling. They also seem quite fond of > brainwashing and mass murder, two things Commie Chomsky just loves. > > > when one side or the other resort to insults it suggests that > > childishness is the best argument they have to offer. > > Those leftists sure are stupid, aren't they. > > > Actually, until recently the CIA was Osama's biggest supporter, > > and didn't you notice? The USSR is no-more. > > The State Department is obviously suffering from communist > infiltration. If Real Americans were running the show, we'd have > annexed Afghanistan and reigned in those mujahedeen before they > made any trouble. > > Only a communist like Chomsky would neglect Afghanistan and thus > unleash terrorism upon the greatest country in the world, the USA, > while giggling and smirking as the Afghan people starve under > Taliban rule. But, you know, communists love that. > > ___ > Chat mailing list > Chat at freenetproject.org > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > Chat at freenetproject.org > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat - -- X windows: The art of incompetence. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjw5IbsACgkQqpueKcacfLRZZgCfT54/88XhlzixwTI3Ahrb+pZO m8EAoJnr2EWkCZA7T/obKS87JVyNDEW8 =fcRm -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Chat mailing list Chat at freenetproject.org http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] deep philosophical question
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Saturday 05 January 2002 22:16, you wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:26:48 +1300 David McNab
>
> writes:
> > IMO, there should be laws passed that all unsolicited promotional
> > material have the string 'SPAM:' at the start of the subject field,
> > to
> > allow easy filtering.
>
> MSN does this, I'm sure of it, but only for messages that come from
> places they have already identified as SPAMers. I agree that ALL SPAMers
> should be required by law to put SPAM at the beginning of every subject
> line, or get a special kind of MIME code that MUST be embeded so that
> unwanted messages can be filtered out, not just by the Email Client a
> user happens to be useing, but by the email SERVER run by the ISP.
A new header ("X-Advertising") would be much better.
- --
UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stuipd things, because that
would also stop you from doing clever things.
--Dough Gwyn
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