[CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: Re: [CTRL] For duh record

In a message dated 12/13/2000 3:18:44 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 In other words, Put up or Shut up! 

Duncan is apparently seeking some form of acceptance or
vindication, and has picked the CTRL list as the chosen
vessel to accomplish his task...Lucky us!

Publishing information on any controversial issue is bound to
propel any given author or editor into the bright interrogation
lights of public scrutiny; and Duncan's attempt to vindicate
himself on this list seems a bit silly -- if not ill-contrived.

How about if we all give Duncan a big group
hug, and maybe he will go away nicely?

Tsadowq

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[CTRL] Advertising in the name of a martyrdom.

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: ---big group hug---

Hello everyone,

While Duncan and June are quick to label my
protest as "censorship," the fact of the matter is
that this guy's first several posts were nothing
more than the over-exaggerated complaining
of a wannabe victim...with an advertisement
for his magazine conveniently connected to it.

Duncan's first posts to this list had very little to do with any
conspiracy at all. His posts were a purposeful and reckless
lashing out against whoever might have done wrong by
Duncan -- by means of not purchasing his magazine
or buying off onto the ideas perpetuated by it.

Duncan also accused people like myself of having ulterior
motives -- as he has also assumed that we dislike of his work.

In my case, nothing could be further from the truth. I am aware
of the existence of the magazine in question, but I have not
really read it well enough to have an opinion of it.

In fact, the greatest amount of writing that I have read by
Duncan's magazine's contributors, happens to be his own
bellyaching on this list.

And this fact was the initial burr under the saddle:

Duncan's obvious attempt to advertise his magazine by
creating controversy around his posts...even when there
was no real controversy extant.

Advertising as a victim is controversial, but it is hardly
controversial from a conspiracy point of view. How much
more likely it is, that even an outright advertisement would
be preferred to the attempt at cloaking commercials under
the guise of "everybody picks on me and my magazine."

If Duncan has a REAL conspiracy to talk about; if he has
a REAL issue to discuss; then so be it...but enough already
of this shameless advertising in the name of martyrdom.

Tsadowq

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[CTRL] NEXtradomUS

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: Another post where Duncan claims victim status

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 12/13/2000 8:20:09 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


We have on our hands here, a guy who can identify
the persons behind anonymous screen names by
taking notice of the "uncanny similarity" and the
"use of phraseology."

With talent like this, Duncan NEXtradomUS should
have been in Florida last week DIVINING the intent
of anonymous voters.

Of course, Duncan's convoluted attempt at somehow
tying list members in with people who have apparently
been unfriendly to him and his magazine, conveniently
afforded him the opportunity to mention the magazine's
name ANOTHER FOUR TIMES.

In a message dated 12/13/2000 8:20:09 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Their latest gimmick is to play on my "obvious" wealth
and my desire to use this list for self promotion.

Does Duncan deny that he NEVER FAILS to mention
his magazine in EVERY POST?an average of at
least 4 times per post?

In his last post, Duncan denies using the CTRL list for
advertisement of his magazine, yet the magazine's name
appeared no less than EIGHT (8) TIMES.

Don't go away mad Duncan, just go away.

Tsadowq

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Fascists, Fundamentalists, and Freaks, oh my...

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: slam dunkin' Duncan

Hello again,

In a message dated 12/13/2000 5:31:11 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 After a couple of to and fro posts, you and your other
fascist cronies started smearing myself and NEXUS.

And now I am a Fascist as well?

I have said almost nothing about Duncan or
his magazine, I merely postulated the lack
of importance his posts have to conspiracy.

Duncan has grotesquely failed to offer an inkling
of evidence to prove that I am "smearing" him.

Duncan tells people to shut up, but then
claims that HE is the victim of censorship.

Duncan resorts to ad homenin attack, but
then claims that everyone is smearing HIM.

With tactics like this, I am willing
to bet that Duncan is a Democrat.

Tsadowq

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] Election2000: Hegelian Style

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: Re: [CTRL] Coup?

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 12/12/2000 3:33:56 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 But that's NOT what he thinks or knows. He knows he lost.
 EVERYONE knows he lost. Let's cut the B.S. If those 12,000
 ballots ever get counted, George W. Bush is the loser and
 everyone with an I.Q. of over 70 knows it. 

Everyone with an I.Q. over 70 should realize that the attempt
to cherry pick the undervote from three (3) heavy Democrat
counties is a purposeful attempt at skewing the national
error rate average to favor Gore.

The above quoted post by "Michael so and so" is a joke,
and rather than waste time addressing it individually, I will
simply cut and paste the comments I wrote (for a different
list) on this subject two weeks ago.

Incidentally, CNN has a county by county breakdown of undervotes.
-
BEGIN EXCERPT

Sometime two weeks ago Tsadowq wrote:

That brings up another issue. Why is nobody talking
about the fact that there is a NATIONAL UNDERVOTE,
and that GORE's cherry picking tactics would seriously
and purposely SKEW the NATIONAL UNDERVOTE?

The undervotes are the votes rejected -- for one reason or
another -- from the vote counting machines. An unchallenged
1974 Florida appellate court ruling stated that "mere confusion
does not amount to an impediment to the voters' free choice if
reasonable time and study will sort out."

The Illinois decision (which was improperly represented to
the Florida Supreme Court by Gore attorney David Boies),
added that voters who fail to properly follow instructions,
"disenfranchise themselves."

Overlooking the fact that confused voters disenfranchise
THEMSELVES, we should not ALSO overlook the very
large parts of the mathematics behind the machine tallies:

1) Unbiased machines reject votes without prejudice
of race, creed, or political intention.

2) Said undervotes are part of a NATIONAL error rate,
sometimes MORE Republican ballots are tossed out,
sometimes MORE Democrat ballots are tossed out.

The idea is that NATIONALLY, the ERRORS will
BALANCE OUT because the machines are not being
BIASED, the machines only rejecting unreadable votes.

With these facts in mind, it is very clear that the "cherry picking"
of votes from DEMOCRAT HEAVY DISTRICTS would OBVIOUSLY
SKEW this NATIONAL ERROR RATE in Gore's favor.

Does the GORE camp seriously think that we are unaware of this?

And speaking of election FRAUD...where is DALEY?

The MINUTE that fraud was mentioned DALEY
disappeared from the GORE cheerleading team.

And with good reasonDaley's father was a well
known suspect in voter fraud dating back 30 years.

Some people say that Gore INVENTED the Internet.
Other people say that Daley's Dad INVENTED vote fraud.

At any rate, I believe that this entire election is more
Hegelian Dialect, with the possible synthesis being
any one or all of the following:

1) A national and universal voting system that would be
labeled "tamper/fraud" proof. How? That is easy. How
about NEW national voting systems which ONLY accept
votes from citizens with a National I.D. card?

2) To wipe out the Electoral College. Think about this, C-SPAN
live for the classroom is in MANY SCHOOLS. I watched a
CNN piece on what elementary and intermediate school
children think of the election. Afterall, they feel that they
are very informed after watching the spin. The end result?

The majority of the kids interviewed CONFIRMED the ideas
expressed in #1 and #2. These kids were literally parroting
the exact statements. "We need national voting systems"
and "We need to destroy the Electoral College, it is not fair."

We all know that the Electoral College is the Constitutional part
of the Republic. Without the Electoral College, the presidential
candidates would only need to carry California, New York, Texas
and Florida, in order to win.

Yes, the masses in these four states would
be enough to win the POPULAR VOTE.

Why would a candidate even BOTHER
to campaign in the other 46 states?

In any case, this is clearly an issue of States Rights. The
States of the Union are guaranteed Equal Representation.

Which makes me wonder...

Why aren't people from states OTHER than Florida
SUING for EQUAL REPRESENTATION?

Afterall, if we are going to count by hand all the UNDERVOTES
of cherry picked DEMOCRATIC counties, this unequivocally
makes the VOTES in FLORIDA of more VALUE than those
UNDERVOTES in ALL THE OTHER STATES. The undervote
in all other states was not hand counted, it was THROWN OUT.

The fact is that if we are going to count by hand the
UNDERVOTES in Florida, those UNDERVOTES are
part of a NATIONAL AVERAGE and ERROR rate.

In order to avoid skewing that national error rate, we must
either DISCARD ALL undervotes, or we must COUNT ALL
undervo

Re: [CTRL] For the record.

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread:
Irrelevant drivel from a guy who makes way too much money.

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 12/12/2000 1:29:33 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Ironically, the people who attack NEXUS fall into three categories: 

Why is this "ironic?"

The big question is: DO WE EVEN CARE?

As if NEXUS does not have a big
enough part of the market share?

Do we really need to hear the editor of a nationally recognized
magazine whining (on a conspiracy theory list) about how unfair
it is that making big $$$ puts you under the magnifying glass
of public scrutiny and skepticism?

Duncan Roads: How about posting NEXUS' last year's PL
statement before you go on crying about "how hard" life is?

Tsadowq

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] For duh record

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: Re: [CTRL] For the record.

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 12/12/2000 6:14:16 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 You obviously desire NEXUS and myself to
look bad to other readers on this list.

Actually Duncan, you are doing a great job of this all by yourself.

Tsadowq

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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[CTRL] Unicorns, antichrist, and Metatron...oh my!

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

:::yeppers:::

In a message dated 12/08/2000 10:25:53 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 ...anyway, the World Book said that the word 'unicorn'
was once written throughout the Bible, but was later
substituted with the words 'wild oxen'.

True enough. The "unicorn" is a symbol for "antichrist."
The "horn" or "power" against/in place of Christ.

In a message dated 12/08/2000 10:25:53 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Later, for an Art History class project, I researched why
David, the sculptor, portrayed Moses with horns. Apparently
the Hebrew word for horns also meant 'beams', but the Greek
translation of that time used the word 'horns' instead, leading
David to put horns on the head of his masterpiece.

Maybe David actually chipped out Enoch as Metatron?

Tsadowq

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Old reply- OPERATION CLYDESDALE Paedophilia vs other crimes

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/07/2000 12:29:12 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Murder is the only crime that is worse than paedophilia 

Send both the murderer and the paedophile to meet the Maker.

Case after case of clinical/criminal study proves that child
molesters do not change their predatory schemes; they
move on to violate more innocent children until they are
reported-- and finally caught again.

Don't waste the electricity on the electric chair.
And why buy the drugs to inject them with? No
gas chambers, and no more firing squads either.

Hang them with the same rope, over, and over, and over, and..

Or, bring back stonings. Yes, this is a true saying; that if there
were more public stonings, movies wouldn't be so terribly violent.

Tsadowq

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Van Impe and Sitchin.

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/07/2000 7:00:56 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 at LEAST I post MY REAL NAME

Not only is this a laughable parry, it is completely irrelevant.

In a message dated 12/07/2000 7:00:56 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
and though I post pieces from other sources I don't
claim to agree with 100% of their contents.

This is a nice try, but there is no white-washing the fact
that Wes posted back-to-back posts -- which included
both contradicting and hypocritical statements.

In a message dated 12/07/2000 7:00:56 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Sitchin has problems, but Van Impe is a total dolt. 

What is the difference between the theologies of these two men?

Sitchin says the Annunaki are the extra-TERRESTRIAL
PROGENITORS of the human race, and ties these beings
into passages from the Bible including Genesis 6.

Van Impe says these same beings are extra-DIMENSIONAL
ANTAGONIZERS of the human race, and ties these beings
into passages Genesis 6 also, except for the fact that
Van Impe identifies these beings as fallen angels.

Funny thing, that the NECRONOMICON tells us that
the Annunaki are the dreaded Lords of the Underworld.

The Necronomicon and the Bible are clearly written from
the perspective of two opposing forces. These opposing
forces strangely agree that the "Annunaki" are fallen angels
of one rank or another.

Calling either one of these men a "total dolt" is as
subjective as the judgment call between the two
men and their paradigms.

Wes, I am sorry that you didn't have
a better relationship with your father.

Tsadowq

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[CTRL] Rosicrucian Guidestones...

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 12/02/2000 2:32:22 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
He identified himself as R. C. Christian, but it soon
became apparent that was not his real name. He said
that he represented a group of men who wanted to offer
direction to humanity, but to date, almost two decades
later, no one knows who R. C. Christian really was, or
the names of those he represented.

If this is true, then it is a simple permutation.

R.C.C. = C.C.R. or C.R.C.

Christian RosenCreutz

Codex Rosae Crucis

See also The Fama Fraternitatis (1614) or The Chemical
Marriage of Christian Rosencreutz (1616). D.O.M.A.?

In a message dated 12/02/2000 2:32:22 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The hole that you see in the stone was drilled in the
Center Stone so that the North Star could be visualized
through it at any moment. This was one of several
requirements stipulated by R.C.Christian for the
building of the American Stonehenge and reflects
his obsession with the alignment of the stars,
the sun, and the moon.

So who was R.C. Christian and those he represented?

IMHO, this is the work of "Father C.R.C." and the
ephemeris consulting brotherhood of Rosicrucians.

Tsadowq

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

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Re: [CTRL] Half of Americans see Demo vote fraud

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/24/2000 5:51:29 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Gee, could this be the same 50% that woted for Shrub???

This statement is a clear example of how people wilfully
allow their politics to affect their common sense.

The fact of the matter is that it is statistically impossible for
the people represented by the percentage of the Rasmussen
Research to have been the exact people who voted for Bush.

Steamship Goretannica is on collision course for the the iceberg
which represents the cold hard facts of a Constitutional Republic.

All of the Democrats keep calling America a DEMOCRACY...and
if the tactics used by Gore's camp are allowed to fly, then these
Fabian Socialists who call themselves Democrats will be one step
closer to wiping out the Electoral College and subsequently the
Equal Representation of States Rights.

If this does take place, then we CAN have a popular vote winner--
and America will finally be transformed into the DEMOCRACY
that so many devious/deceived politicians already claim it to be.

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] The US election crisis: why is Ralph Nader silent?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/24/2000 7:40:38 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 As his spokesperson indicated, he (Nader) considers
the electoral impasse to be nothing more than a dispute
over the spoils of government between two identical
corporate-controlled parties

B I N G O

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] Fw [CTRL] Gideon's code?Tsadowq

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/22/2000 3:59:26 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Tsadowq (boy that is spelled wrong) 

Good for you! Not many people would recognize that this
is the transliteral spelling rather than the traditional Hebrew.

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] Bible codes....

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/20/2000 3:40:29 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The Bible Code is bullshit. No one really disputes this anymore.

In my nicest condescending voice:

Yes, Joshua2, we *all* heard you the first time.
Now run off -- and play nicely with the other kids.

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] Superstitious loons

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/20/2000 3:40:29 PM Mountain
Standard Time, nurev a.k.a. JOSHUA2 writes to A SABA:
 You are a superstitious, looney bird 

Above, Aleisha is superstitious and looney.

In a message dated 11/20/2000 4:12:21 PM Mountain
Standard Time, nurev a.k.a. JOSHUA2 writes to TSADOWQ:
 you are just a superstitious loony

Barely half an hour later, superstitious and "loony" again
except this time these fierce comments are aimed at me.

Hmmm

On Joshua2's "Word a Day" calendar, I am willing to bet
that today's word for Joshua to learn was "superstitious."

I would also bet that yesterday's word on the same calendar
was "looney." That would explain why little Josh is having a
hard time remembering how to spell the word correctly.

I really shouldn't poke fun...afterall, it has not been that
long ago since Joshua2 graduated from constantly
using profanity as adjectives.

Superstitiously looney,
Tsadowq

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[CTRL] Gideon's code?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/21/2000 5:42:11 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 there are 3 people two of whom are on this list,
 who know what this calendar code is 

Saba, it is not that I completely disagree with you.

The idea that a common print of the Gideon's Bible can be
found (and possibly used to translate a series of numbers
into chapter/verse and therefore agenda/method) is not
entirely ridiculous or improbable.

If this were true, then it would only make sense that
this idea has been used by the mainstream media
in the big screen version of "Mission Impossible."

(In the Mission Impossible movie, Tom Cruise
makes contact with a secret operative by use
of coded message and a Gideon's Bible in his
hotel room.)

This method of hiding real ideas in the open,
effectively throws dogs like Joshua2 off track.

Afterall... "THAT idea was in a movie...You
don't really think that this is real...do you?"

I am almost positive that Robert Anton Wilson included
this same Bible "code" in either the Illuminati trilogy or
the "Illuminati Papers."

So-- Saba. Now that we are all clear about what you
are talking about, I doubt that you will take so much
grief for your opinion on this "code."

But, let's make sure that we understand that this is not really
a "code." The actual code would be the series of numbers
which would be required to find the exact page and sentence
in the Gideon's Bible that the operative would decode the
message from.

The code would the sequence of numbers, and the
Gideon's Bible would be the key used for decoding.

This does pose a problem to the paradigm that Saba has
established to this point. Why? Because this type of code
would require that all the motels used by secret operatives
would possess the SAME COPY of Gideon's Bible.

This fact, in and of itself completely destroys the idea
that there was a limited amount of these books which
were handed out on a very special basis.

The "code" would only be useful if there were a large
number of the same version of Gideon's Bibles found
throughout the U.S. in many, many motels/hotels.

If this is then, the "code" of which Saba speaks, then I
(for one) completely understand why it is impossible for
her to "prophecy" from it.

All that Saba or anyone might hope to accomplish,
is to hypothesize about events of the past, trying
to relate and overlay them upon biblical events.

Neither Saba's nor Drosnin's codes can be used to prophecy.

Both Saba's and Drosnin's codes can be observed only in retrospect.

With that in mind, I cannot withdraw my previous
remark regarding the similarity of Drosnin's code
and the code of which Saba speaks.

Tsadowq

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Bible codes...

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/20/2000 5:21:26 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Bible codes were debunked a few years ago
by more than a few Bible and code experts. 

As I said in a previous CTRL thread on this subject, I am
not a big fan of using ELS to prophecy. I believe that the
examples given by Drosnin were purposely weak -- the
strawman set up to be knocked down so that scoffers
and unbelievers alike would feel they have solid ground
to stand on.

It is much easier for these weak minds to simply dismiss
ALL possibilities of the Bible having a Divine Origin.

Afterall, some amazing code in the Bible would
seriously challenge the unbeliever and skeptic.

Nonetheless, Gematria; Temura; Notarikon; etc.; fall
under a completely different category (and practice)
of mathematical codes and permutations.

In a message dated 11/20/2000 7:48:26 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 When the Drosnin book first came out, PAX TV network
did a show on Bible Codes. Not only did they find JFK and
Jesus in the codes, one of the detractors also found a code
that read: DROSNIN IS A FRAUD. With hard work and
creativity, there is a code for everything. 

My previous statements on ELS apply here as well.

Disconcerting it is, how well the Drosnin ploy worked...

This fact is easily observed from the gaggles of
cyber-know-it-alls who feel secure in their pseudo-
intelligence gained by perusing a few web pages
which wrestled with ELS Bible codes.

Suddenly, these people rise up to presumptively
and authoritively tell us that because they read it
some where on the web, there is no such thing
as ANY Bible code.

Well...wake up to history, boneheads.

The recognition of Gematria is as old as the first
scribes/priests who first began recopying the MSS.

How amusing it is to me, that some people believe they
can dismiss such an ancient form of mathematics...all
because they feel full of knowledge after taking the time
to read four whole pages in a magazine or off of some
website.

Tsadowq

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[CTRL] Bible codes

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/19/2000 12:53:58 PM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The Bible Codes Program I have is by Bibletech Corporation
of Israel.  Also, to my knowledge there is no "codes" program to
the New Testament.

Well, I guess it depends on what type of code you are looking
for. I know for a fact that there are currently ELS and gematria
programs available for Old and New Testaments. Gaining info
from these programs requires dedication, as each chapter must
be made into individual text files which then must be further
"edited" (search tags, etc.) so that the program's algorhythms
will search correctly.

In a message dated 11/19/2000 12:53:58 PM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Aleisha keeps making some kind of reference to the
codes of the New Testament, and there isn't one available
to my knowledge.

The same numeric code for both the Old
and New Testaments. ELS may surely
be found in the New Testament as well.

In a message dated 11/19/2000 12:53:58 PM
Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Greek language of the New Testament cannot be
equalized to the Hebrew in the Old Testament.  The only
way it can be compared is through numbers; each letter
is equivalent to a number.  That's how it comes up with
6-6-6 for a name.

I am not sure what you mean by "equalized." The Old
and New Testaments are certainly "equalized" in my
own paradigm through use of biblical, exegetical,
historical, and theological disciplines. I personally
use the mathematical phenomenas found within
the Bible to show people that numerically, the Old
and New Testament are the same book.

Lastly, as far as ELS goes...

My own experience shows that the Bible does in
fact possess certain ELS "prophecies." But, again
we make note of the fact that these "prophecies"
always seem to come to our attention AFTER
the fact.

Take a look at Drosnin's Bible Code book. I believe
that this book was written in the same fashion as
was Richard Preston's "Hot Zone."

Drosnin's false prophecies were popularized only to
be shot down statistically. Because of Drosnin, many
people truly believe that there is NO Bible code.

The same may be said of Preston's drivel and
how it adversely affected the work of Dr. Len
Horowitz.

As far as Aleisha's code, wellIt sounds alot
so far like Drosnin's book. Many "I told you so's"
after the fact. Drosnin nor Aleisha has offered a
single example of where their "code" may be
observed PRIOR to the event taking place.

And this is, to me, as it should be. I do not believe
that ELS can prophecy the future. I believe that it
will only be used to show what has taken place.

ELS, or ANY Bible code will never reveal something that
is not manifestly written in the Word Itself; this I say, after
many years of experience in this vein of numerical prophecy.

This would have to also include temura, notarikon,
and many other forms of permutations.

So, Dr. Deb, if you would like, email me privately
on this matter of Bible codes. I would like to know
if you have discovered the name of the "man" whose
number is 666.

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] The Windsor-Bush Bloodline

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/19/2000 1:15:13 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 In fact if you go deeply enough into the genealogical research
you will find that ALL the presidents are from this line.

This is no new find. Geneologist Gary Boyd Roberts
published this information YEARS ago -- I don't think
we need CIA plant David Icke to tell us.

Maybe Aleisha and David can write a book together?

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] Is Bush the most powerful and rich man of the Illuminati

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 11/18/2000 8:15:52 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
This happening with Bush is one of the biggest
conspiracies there is in the world.

BOTH candidates are THEIR (Manchurian) candidate.

GORE = a pathological liar with documentable communist
sympathies and an undying commitment to Gaia worship
and world government.

BUSH = BUSH II: Operation Desert THUNDER (via Zappata Oil again?)

Tsadowq

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[CTRL] Senate Bill 2099

[Tsadowq]

Hello everyone,

It appears they will get them "registered" one way or another?

Here is the link, too:
http://rs9.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query
A HREF="http://rs9.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query"Senate Bill 2099/A

Handgun Safety and Registration Act of 2000 (Introduced in the Senate)

S 2099 IS


106th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. 2099
To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to require the registration of
handguns, and for other purposes.


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

February 24, 2000
Mr. REED introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to
the Committee on Finance



--
--


A BILL
To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to require the registration of
handguns, and for other purposes.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Handgun Safety and Registration Act of 2000'.

SEC. 2. REGISTRATION OF HANDGUNS.

(a) HANDGUN INCLUDED IN DEFINITION OF FIREARM-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986
(defining firearm) is amended by striking `and (8) a destructive device' and
inserting `(8) a handgun; and (9) a destructive device'.

(2) DEFINITION OF HANDGUN- Section 5845 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986
(relating to definitions) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(n) HANDGUN-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The term `handgun' means any weapon (including a starter
gun) which--

`(A) is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the
action of an explosive, and

`(B) has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a
single hand.

`(2) DISASSEMBLED PARTS INCLUDED- Such term shall also include the frame or
receiver of any such weapon, and any combination of parts from which a
handgun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the
control of a person.

`(3) EXCLUSION- Such term shall not include a firearm classified as `any
other weapon' under subsection (e).'.

(b) TRANSFER TAX IMPOSED ON HANDGUNS- Section 5811(a) of the Internal Revenue
Code of 1986 (relating to rate) is amended by inserting `or as a handgun
under section 5845(a)(8)' after `section 5845(e)'.

(c) TAX ON MAKING FIREARMS IMPOSED ON HANDGUNS- Section 5821(a) of the
Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to rate) is amended by inserting `,
except, the tax on any firearm classified as a handgun under section
5845(a)(8) shall be at the rate of $50 for each such firearm made' after
`firearm made'.

(d) IMPORTATION POLICY CONTINUED-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 5844 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating
to importation) is amended by adding at the end the following: `This section
shall not apply to any firearm classified as a handgun under section
5845(a)(8).'.

(2) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 925(d)(3) of title 18, United States Code,
is amended by inserting `(without regard to paragraph (8) thereof)' after
`section 5845(a)'.

(e) SHARING OF REGISTRATION INFORMATION WITH STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
AGENCIES-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 6103(o) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986
(relating to disclosure of returns and return information with respect to
certain taxes) is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(3) TAXES IMPOSED ON TRANSFER OF HANDGUNS- Returns and return information
with respect to taxes imposed by part II of subchapter A of chapter 53
(relating to tax on transferring firearms) on any firearm classified as a
handgun under section 5845(a)(8) shall be available in an on-line format for
inspection by or disclosure to officers and employees of--

`(A) any Federal law enforcement agency, and

`(B) any State or local law enforcement agency,

whose official duties require such inspection or disclosure.'.

(2) CONFORMING AMENDMENTS- Section 6103(p)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code of
1986 is amended--

(A) in the matter preceding subparagraph (A)--

(i) by striking `or (o)(1)' and inserting `(o)(1), or (o)(3)(A)',

(ii) by striking `or (l)(6)' and inserting `(l)(6)',

(iii) by inserting `or (o)(3)(B),' after `(16),', and

(B) in subparagraph (F)(i)--

(i) by striking `or (l)(6)' and inserting `(l)(6)', and

(ii) by inserting `or (o)(3)(B),' after `(16),', and

(C) in subparagraph (F)(ii), by striking `or (o)(1)' and inserting `, (o)(1),
or (o)(3)(A)'.

(f) TRANSITION RULE FOR NONREGISTERED HANDGUNS-

(1) IN GENERAL- Any person possessing any firearm classified as a handgun
under section 5845(a)(8) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 not registered
in the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record maintained by the
Secretary of the Treasury under section 5841 of such Code shall register such
handgun--

(A) within 1 year of the date of the enactment of this Act, or

(B) upon the transfer of such handgun before such 1 year anniversary date.

(2) TREATMENT OF REGISTRATION AS TRANSFER- For purposes of any tax imposed by

Re: [CTRL] Denver International Airport and the fires

[Tsadowq]

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 08/29/2000 7:51:01 AM Mountain
Daylight Time, A HREF="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"[EMAIL PROTECTED]
m/A writes:
 Denver International Airport has some rather strange
murals. One of these murals depicts children running
away from a forest fire, and a penguin in a melting
block of ice.

This is simply not accurate. The penguin is stuffed and
encased in a display case. This breed of penguin is
one of three animals (which appear as stuffed animals
on display) in this murual shown to be extinct.

The three people in the graves are symbolic
of the death or "extinction" of individualsm,
viz., religious and racial difference.

The fires in the picture are symbolic of reincarnation;
from the ashes of the fire rises the Phoenix, etc. This
mural set also smacks of Gia worship.

The "sister" mural to this particular painting, shows
the forest which was once on fire, growing again.

Also, the painting of the "bubble cities" in the background,
(off in the distance behind the raging forest fires), are almost
identical to those found in James Hurtak's Keys of Enoch.

Strangely enough, there is a HUGE resemblance
between the actual artwork of these bubble cities
and the covers for the Boston albums.

Maybe Boston's guitarist Tom Scholz was
deeply into the Keys of Enoch, or maybe
the artist who designed Boston's album
covers had a full spinning Merkabah and
was in contact with the Higher Dimensional
Evolutionary Grid?

lol

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] the walrus was Paul...

[Tsadowq]

Previous Post: Re: [CTRL] Masons At The 33rd Parallel (Pt.1)

For the record, [EMAIL PROTECTED] is
the 33rd person to post this (dis)information.

Hello everyone,

In a message dated 07/23/2000 8:46:30 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Published with permission for David Icke E~Magazine subscribers 

Well if David Icke published it...it MUST be true.

And here's another clue for you all

The walrus was Paul

...and the serpent is David.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] POLICE STATE II: THE TAKEOVER

[Tsadowq]

Hello everyone,

I checked out this site, and found the following page of interest...

A HREF="http://www.infowars.com/goodphotos.html"Photos from Alex' Jones'
Infowars.com/A
http://www.infowars.com/goodphotos.html

As CTRL list members may recall from last year, I also
reported this phenomena -- military choppers landing at
local parks and schools.

Funny, my pictures look hauntingly similar to
the pictures already on this site...Lots of people
there checking out the helicopter, lots of smiling
faces, etc...

With this evidently happening in more
than one state, I now know that I can
trust those smiling faced military men.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] HAARP - Fabricating God

[Tsadowq]

 Pyramid lines
 up to the very first Epoch of the Belt of Orion over Giza.

 Rather amusing that Poseidon/Neptune has often
 been pictured as the King over Atlantis. The "god
 of the underworld" with his "trident/pitchfork."

 Is this mental picture not tell-tale of the lore which
 often surrounds the Devil who was Lucifer, but is
 now called the Enemy (satanas/Satan)?

 As the "Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters"
 (GEN 1:2), the Father wiped out that rebellion in a great
 flood which covered "Atlantis." Leviathan, Tiamat, and the
 legend of the Ouroboros beneath the waters-- holding his
 own tail until he looses it at the end of the age; are all
 telling us of this Atlantean BEAST that was (REV 17)...

 Atlantis was covered by a great flood (GEN 1:2) and
 at that time, we place odds on the fact that Cayce's
 "sons of Belial" were no longer guessing if the "sons
 of the Law of One" were right in their belief and loyalty
 to the Higher Creator. It seems that the "sons of the
 Law of One" were well aware of the PHI principle and
 of their own "self-symmetry" with their Higher Creator.

 This battle over "who is God" and whether or not a
 person can attain "Christ consciousness" without
 following the plan continues in the here and now,
 as the Illuminated gather their information as the
 voices of Atlantis whisper in their ears.

 Many New Age authors have stated that the Atlantis
 is the outline for the perfect world governent...

 It is my belief that the fallen angels who are responsible
 for Atlantis, are now guiding mankind to the same fate.

 The Bible says that those who overcome this plan
 through Jesus Christ, will one day judge the angels
 who fell (I COR 6:2). Currently, the population of the
 planet equals that to the humanity of history.

 If the Luciferians are successful in leading the Illuminoids
 to rebuild their Atlantean BEAST...then the majority of
 mankind falls just like the rebellious angels already did.

 If we ascend into higher dimensions by means
 of TECHNOLOGY without following the protocol
 established by God, then we are just as guilty
 as the Luciferian/Atlanteans, and we shall NOT
 be their judge.

 The fallen hope to dismiss their own judgment
 by making mankind "gods unto our own".

 If we are guilty of the same crime, we have wiped
 out the validity of our judgment against them.

 Drunvalo has stated in the Flower of Life series, that
 the NWO government seeks to destroy what he has
 called "the Christ grid"...but the REAL plan of the
 Enemy is to ACTIVATE it WORLD-WIDE.

 Sometime in our future, just as described in the Bible
 (REV 13) and by Edgar Cayce, the "ATLANTIS" will
 rise once again. This is the surfacing of Leviathan...

 Also, this explains the Ouroboros as
 yet another symbol of resurrection.

 As this resurrectional "Phoenix rises" it
 takes the shape of the New World Order.

 THIS time, EVERYBODY gets to ascend and be GODLIKE
 as H.A.A.R.P. and Iridium technologies combine to move
 the entire planet into the next "plane" of existence.

 On page 271 of Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine, she tells us
 that our planet wide ascension and future "godhood" will
 be directly linked to man's greater understanding of
 higher dimensions.

 ...and remember that just as Blavatsky was touted as
 Bailey's predecessor, Share International boasts Bailey
 as Creme's.

 Supposedly, Maitreya is the leader of the "Ascended
 Masters of Wisdom" a.k.a "The Lords of Light."

 These Lords of Light are said to be planning their
 appearance at the next time/space overlap. At this
 time, Hurtak was told that the Lords of Light shall
 remove the "righteous" to another plane of existence.

 Revelation 9 describes a point in time where
 men will not be able to find death.

 How likely it could be, that this is the technological
 counterfeit to nullify "the sting of death" which has
 no victory over those who are in Jesus Christ.

 This moment, I am amused to think of the logo
 for LUCifer's ENTerprising TECHNOLOGY, which
 is the Ouroborohehehehe

 Anyway...

 As previously stated, Maitreya is mentioned by name
 in Hurtak's "Keys of Enoch" almost 25 years ago.

 Hurtak's "Keys" tell us that these events will take place
 during a time/space overlap; at which time the Ascended
 Mastersa.k.a. the Lords of Light, shall appear to help
 the "righteous" into the next higher dimensional existence.

 Keep in mind that if you convert the Speed
 of Light to Nautical Miles (degrees of arc on
 the Earth surface), it is PHI.

 So, come on come all !!!

 Align your chakras, burn your sacred candle, program
 your crystal and build your pyramid image (REV 13:14)
 to gather all of the Language of Light you can handle.

 Activate your crystalline matrix and wear y

Re: [CTRL] Ben Creme and his Maitreya

[Tsadowq]

In a message dated 07/11/2000 8:23:04 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Benjamin Creme, himself a fan of Bailey's work 

Creme is more than a fan of Bailey...Just as Blavatsky was
touted as Bailey's predecessor, Share International boasts
Bailey as Creme's.

Considering the depth of Hurtak's "Keys," it is not
suprising to find that Maitreya is mentioned by
name in this book almost 25 years ago.

Off of the subject but also intriguing is, that while most
of the Egyptian history revisionists believe that West was
responsible for making the connection between the Giza
plateau and Orion, this information - as given to him by
the "Lords of Light" - was actually published by Hurtak
almost a quarter century ago.

And the deception continues...

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] 2 Microsoft fixes

[Tsadowq]

Email viruses are now spreading WITHOUT
THE USER OPENING ANY ATTACHMENT.

Personal computers running Internet Explorer (IE) version 5.0
and/or Microsoft Office 2000 are vulnerable to virus attacks using
most email systems, even if the email recipient opens no
attachments.  You don’t even have to use IE; just have it installed
with the default security settings.  If you have not closed the
hole, you can receive viruses (and spread them) by viewing or
previewing malicious email without opening any attachment, or by
visiting a malicious web site. The problem is caused by a
programming bug in an Internet Explorer ActiveX control called
scriptlet.typelib.  This is by far the fastest growing virus
distribution problem and ripe for a hugely destructive event - at
least as large as the ILOVEYOU virus.  Updating your virus
detection software, while important, is not an effective solution
for this problem. You must also close the hole.

The hole can be closed in five minutes or less using
tools available at Microsoft’s security site:

A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms99-032.asp"Micr
osoft Security Program: Microsoft Security Bulletin (MS99-032)/A
http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/ms99-032.asp

The correction script may be run directly from:
A
HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/iebuild/scriptlet/en/scriptlet.htm"
Update for "scriptlet.typelib/Eyedog" Vulnerability/A
http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/iebuild/scriptlet/en/scriptlet.htm

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths,
misdirections
and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
minor
effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Islam worships the same Deity as Jews/Christians?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

In a message dated 03/29/2000 6:28:19 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 You are so much more erudite than I. I want to ask:
do you know what sixth law or canon or whatever it is
where it is said, roughly, that if you kill infidels you
earn a higher place in the afterlife?  Thanks, Foxter 

Thank you for your kind wordsyyeah...I think
I was actually born with a book in my hands.  ;¬)

The first reference that comes to mind, is Book III, The
House of Imran. Surah 3:150-155; Surah 3:190-195.

There is another place where the families of those who
die "for Allah", are promised a greater standing as well,
but the Surah has slipped my mind at this moment.

I see that June and PRUDY have answered this thread,
so I am sure that I will write a bit more extensively on
this issue over the weekend. I don't have the time to
write in any detail at this moment.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Islam worships the same Deity as Jews/Christians?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

In a message dated 03/29/2000 7:35:27 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 How do you know I haven't?  ;-)
Again, how do you know I already haven't done so?  ;-)

Let's first acknowledge that these questions are good and
safe for June. They admit nothing, and imply everything.

Further, June's questions appear only as a showing of
a challenge. She is certainly not challenging my own
knowledge of the Koran; indeed, she only challenges
an issue that remains uncertain.

Now, to be fair, (and to reiterate what was said in
my previous post), I have not read every thread on
this issue. Included in the two posts that I did read,
was a statement that June made, which claimed
that she had offered "facts" on Islam in a previous
post. I cannot speak to that which I have not read.

Nonetheless, June is asking me, how I know that she
has not purchased and studied a copy of the Koran.

Well, June...

I answered the post in which you were contesting that
which Foxter had put forth, viz., that Islam promises a
greater standing with Allah for those who die in his
"holy war" with the infidels.

June was challenging this statement, demanding
that Foxter "chapter and verse", so to speak, the
Surah from which the Foxter was quoting.

June, my statements to you, concerning the idea
that you might purchase and read the Koran for
yourself, was based upon my observations of
this situation. Here is why:

FACT. The Koran DOES state that the self-martyred
soldiers of the holy war will have a greater standing
with Allah. Surah III: 150-155; 190-195, etc.

Now, if June had studied the Koran and knew this
to be true, she would have agreed with Foxter.

But quite to the contrary, June challenged Foxter,
insinuating that Foxter did not know that of which
she had spoken.

Surely, June wouldn't do something as self-serving
and asinine, as to condemn truthful statements that
had not been accurately documented, just to make
herself feel important?

So, you see, June...

Rather than think of you as a self-serving and pompous
rectum who derails truthful statements for the purpose
of one-up'manship to further your own hyper-inflated
egoI choose to believe that you had not read and
studied the Koran.

Silly me.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

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Om

[CTRL] The Cult of Al

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Previous Thread:
Re: [CTRL] Islam worships the same Deity as Jews/Christians?

In a message dated 03/30/2000 7:15:03 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Al worship is submission.

Al who?

:::snicker:::

Seriously, though...Nessie's blanket statement
regarding religious "submission" does injustice
to the truth of those of us who are "free in Christ"
(ROM 8:2; GAL 5:1).

Considering that Nessie's comment purposely overlooks
this spiritual phenomena, it would appear that stating
"all religion is submission" might be geared toward
self-justification of a non-religious theology, rather
than being an utlimately applicable and universal truth.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Devouring the Blackbird.

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Previous Thread:
Re: [CTRL] Islam worships the same Deity as Jews/Christians?

In a message dated 03/30/2000 6:07:43 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 My question to Foxter regarded Foxter's understanding
of just who Allah is, compared to the deity worshipped by
Jews and Christians, a question Foxter failed miserably.

Two topics were not documented:

1) "Who is Allah"
2) Benefits of dying in the jihad.

I addressed ONE of the topics, the shorter of the two.

I had intended on addressing the lengthier issue
of "who Allah is" -- in comparison to the Christian
God -- sometime during the weekend. I also made
this timetable perfectly clear.

In either case, June's above comments are more diversion.

Foxter had made at least two accurate (but
undocumented) evaluations of Islam:

1) Allah was of an altogether different
nature than the Bible's God.

2) The Koran advocates violence against infidels/unbelievers,
with the promise of a greater standing before Allah.

June then shifted the focus from the truth of these facts,
toward an assault on Foxter's temporary inability to
document these facts from the Koran.

June now attempts more distraction.

June's diversion should not keep us from asking whether
her clamoring for documentation of Foxter's statements,
has come from:

A) Her own lack of understanding of the Koran

or

B)  Whether she wilfully condemns undocumented statements
 which she knows to be true -- just to make herself feel
 important or sound authorative.

It is either one or the other.

The problem for June is, neither answer is to her own pleasing.

"A" verifies her lack of spiritual learning.
"B" verifies her lack of intellectual honesty.

Humility chooses "A" with a respective silence.
Pride chooses "B" with more bombastic blather.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Planets Orbiting Distant Stars (AP article)

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Planets Seen Orbiting Distant Stars

By PAUL RECER
.c The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (March 28) - In a discovery that takes astronomers a step closer
to finding other Earths orbiting other suns, researchers have found two
objects slightly less massive than Saturn circling distant stars.

A team of planet-hunting astronomers announced today that they have found
evidence of the smallest planets yet discovered to be in orbit of stars other
than the sun.

Both planets are smaller in mass than Saturn, a solar system planet that is
about nine times wider than Earth.

About 30 planet-sized objects have been found orbiting other stars, but all
those were the size of Jupiter or bigger. The newly discovered planets are
about a third the size of Jupiter.

Geoff Marcy of the University of California, Berkeley, said in a statement
that searching for planets orbiting distant stars is ''like looking at a
beach from a distance.''

''Previously we only saw the large boulders, which were Jupiter-sized planets
or larger,'' he said. ''Now we are seeing the 'rocks,' Saturn-sized planets
or smaller.''

Seeing Earth-sized objects, said Marcy, would be like seeing pebbles on that
beach and astronomers are not yet able to do that.

Discovery of the Saturn-sized planets, however, supports a theory that
planets, such as those in the solar system, formed around many stars in the
universe. It also supports the theory that most planets are relatively small,
such as Earth, Mars and Venus.

''This a trend the researchers are beginning to see in their data,''
according to a NASA statement.

Marcy and his colleagues, Paul Butler of the Carnegie Institution of
Washington, and Steve Vogt of the University of California, Santa Cruz, used
the Keck telescope in Hawaii to make the discoveries.

They found a planet about 80 percent the mass of Saturn orbiting around a
star called HD46375 some 109 light-years from Earth. A planet 70 percent the
mass of Saturn was found around star 79 Ceti, which is 117 light-years away
in the constellation Cetus.

Both planets are close to their stars, which means they have short orbits.
The HD46375 planet circles its star in just three days, while the 79 Ceti
planet takes 75 days to orbit. Both are thought to be gas planets, like
Saturn and Jupiter. Both are so close to their stars that they would reach
temperatures of more than 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit, far too hot to sustain
ordinary forms of life, the researchers say.

The planets are not actually seen by the astronomers. Instead, the
researchers measure the gravitational effect of the planets on the central
stars. As the planets orbit, they cause the stars to wobble very slightly. By
measuring this wobble, the astronomers can detect the presence and size of a
planet.

Marcy and his team have used this technique to catalog 21 extrasolar planets.
The group is searching some 1,100 stars within 300 light-years of Earth to
find evidence of planets. Other astronomer groups are also searching and have
found about 10 extrasolar planets. A light-year is the distant light travels
in a year in a vacuum, about 6 trillion miles.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Islam worships the same Deity as Jews/Christians?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Previous Post: Re: [CTRL] Flaming (was onelist)

Out of morbid curiousity, I just happened to open ONE of the
many posts that have been running amuck on the (controlled)
Control List...

In a message dated 03/29/2000 5:47:05 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes to Foxter:
You mistakenly stated that Mohammed is the deity whom
Moslems worship.  You didn't even know that the deity whom
Moslems worship is the same deity whom Jews and Christians
worship.

Having deleted every other post in this previously
ongoing thread, I am certain that I have already
missed June's countless foregoing errors.

Here-- is where June is wrong in this particular post.

June claims that Islamic believers worship the
same Deity -- as do us Jews and Christians.

Jews and Christians worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob. Islam reverences the God of Abraham and Ishmael...

The dissimilarity here, especially for those of us who have
comparatively read the Bible and the Koran, is more than
a simple and semantic difference; it is a profound and
ungiving dichotomous wall between Islamic submission
and Judeo-Christian freedom.

If June should desire to open her flap in regard of my
own knowledge of these intensive differences, I will
assure her that I am versed well enough through the
Koran, to quote any surah if the need should arise.

The Koran does not respect Jews nor Christians; the
Koran specifically denies that Jesus was the son of
God, ("And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto
Himself a son.' You have indeed advanced something
hideous!"). These facts on their own, prove that Islam
respects neither our belief in Christ nor our God in Him.

"The Jews say, 'Ezra is the Son of God,
the Christians say, 'The messiah is the Son of God.'
That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming
with the unbelievers before them. God assail them!
How they are perverted!"

We are considered infidels to the Moslems, and the lack of
our submission/islam, is to be brought about by the sword.

For the record, any references to the Koran, have been (and
will be in the future), gathered from the A.J. Arberry translation.

Should June wish to challenge any of the statements which
I have made to date on this subject, it is recommended that
she first, go and buy a copy of the Koran and read it.

Then, June might take at least two more years to study it.

This might save her some embarrassment.

Let us also recommend that June begin her learning spree
by reading book V, The Table, to find the anti-Jewish and
anti-Christian rhetoric contained therein.

These five pillars of Islamic belief...

Shehada
Salat
Zakat
Sawm
Hajj

...share NOTHING in common with the
Jachin and Boaz of Judeo-Christian faith.

Isaac was laid upon the altar, NOT Ishmael.

Isaac was born of the freewoman,
and Ishmael of the bondwoman.

There is again, a profound difference...

...and I guess one would have to actually
study these issues to understand them.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Paranoid about gun ownership?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

In a message dated 03/21/2000 1:35:58 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Any issue which does NOT affect power or the status quo
of wealth distribution that favors the rich and their corporations,
is a diversionary tactic. It ALWAYS works 

The logic and truth within these two
statements makes us highly suspicious...

We DEMAND to know what this impostor
has done with the REAL "Joshua2/nurev".

Slanted eyebrow "Spock" expression - \;¬|

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Obstruction of Justice?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

http://208.246.212.80/national/news1-02152000.htm

White House Accused Of New, Major Cover-Up
By Jerry Seper and Andrew Cain
The Washington Times
February 15, 2000

The White House hid thousands of e-mails containing
information on Filegate, Chinagate, campaign finance
abuses and Monica Lewinsky, all of which were under
subpoena by a federal grand jury and three congressional
committees, a former White House computer manager
says. Sheryl L. Hall, chief of White House computer
operations who has since moved to a similar position at
the Treasury Department, said administration officials
covered up the fact that electronic messages from August
1996 to November 1998 had not been surrendered, as
required by law, deciding instead to label them as
"classified" documents. She said the cover-up was part of
a bid to delay the investigations into 2001. "Contractors
working at the White House discovered the glitch
showing that 100,000 White House e-mails involving
nearly 500 computer users had not been located during
the document search," said Mrs. Hall. "When the
contractors told the White House about the problem, they
were threatened, warned not to discuss it. They were told
the documents were classified. "In fact, a White House
official told one of the contractors they had a jail cell with
his name on it if he discussed the matter," she said.

At least 4,000 of the e-mails involved or related to Miss
Lewinsky, the former White House intern with whom
President Clinton has admitted having a sexual
relationship, she said. The veteran computer manager,
who left the White House after being demoted for
questioning the propriety of the administration's use of a
database system for political purposes, has since become
a critic of the White House. She has accused first lady
Hillary Rodham Clinton and nine White House political
appointees in a pending lawsuit of job harassment and
reprisals for her complaints. The suit has been filed in
U.S. District Court in Washington by Judicial Watch, a
public interest law firm. In addition to the Lewinsky
messages, she said hundreds of other e-mails included
references to the White House's receiving secret FBI files
on former Reagan and Bush administration officials;
information on the selection of corporate executives for
overseas trade trips; and messages concerning campaign
finance activities in the 1996 election. She said the glitch
was first discovered in May 1998, when the contractors
traced a programming error on one of four White House
servers back to August 1996. The error involved e-mails
to and from 464 White House computer users and the
problem was not fixed until November 1998. The White
House e-mails had been sought under subpoena by a
federal grand jury, the Senate Judiciary Committee, the
Senate Governmental Affairs Committee and the House
Government Reform Committee. They also were sought
by Judicial Watch in separate pending suits involving
Filegate and Chinagate. Mrs. Hall, who was assigned to
the White House in October 1992 from the Naval Sea
Systems Command, said the missing e-mails were
discovered when the contractor, Northrop Grumman
Corp., found that one of the four White House Lotus
Notes e-mail servers handling the mail for about 500
computer users had been mislabeled and that a White
House search of electronic messages under the
subpoenas was incomplete. She said e-mails from that
server were not properly managed for a two-year period -
meaning they were not collected by the mainframe
computer during the subpoena record search. Mrs. Hall
said White House project directors, Mark Lindsay and
Laura Crabtree, were told by Northrop Grumman of the
glitch but chose not to make the problem public. "There's
no doubt they knew the search had not been complete,
and the missing records included those involving Miss
Lewinsky and other matters of concern," she said. "They
could have retrieved the documents, and they should
have done it forthrightly." Mr. Lindsay, head of the
White House Office of Management and Administration,
did not return calls seeking comment. Miss Crabtree,
customer support branch chief at the White House who
has since moved to the Labor Department, was
unavailable for comment.

White House spokesman James Kennedy said
administration officials made "a good faith effort to
respond in a timely fashion to all requests for
information" sought under subpoena, but declined to
elaborate. "We generally do not discuss the details of
particular requests," he said. Mr. Kennedy would not
address Mrs. Hall's accusation that 100,000 electronic
messages were not turned over, saying he was "not going
to get into the specifics of any allegation." Northrup
Grumman spokesman Larry Hamilton, who said he was
unfamiliar with the White House contract and would
check with others at Northrup Grumman to determine
what might have happened, did not call back. In her
pending lawsuit against Mrs. Clinton, Mrs. Hall 

[CTRL] You Can Trust the Communists....

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] The proof is in the pudding - Golitsyn defector
right

::

A more recent defector named Stanislav Lunev penned
Through the Eyes of the Enemy. To date, Lunev is the
highest ranking military (publicly known) defector.

The book itself, having been written years after Golitsyn's
now prophetic New Lies for Old, is not a whirlwind of yet
proven to be true prognostications; nor is it written with
the quality or depth with which Golitsyn forewarned.

When reading Lunev's account of events in Russia -- as
written by Ira Winkler, the reader feels more like they
are hearing the old stories of one's life, as told to them
by their grandpa...

Providing of course, that your grandpa
was a Russian GRU Agent trained to kill.

A book which is not very well known, Lunev's meager
testimony echoes that of his fellow Russian Anatoliy
Golitsyn, and only admits to that which Dr. Fred
Schwartz warned of in 1962: You can trust the
Communiststo be Communists.

Lunev confirms that which time has proven for
Golitsyn, and his witness belongs on your library
shelve if you are one who collects books that are
likely to be given the Montag treatment -- if the
Communists are to succeed.

Tsadowq

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] A fundamentalist by any other name...

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

The key words below are:
"My (David Rupp's) definition of a fundamentalist is..."

In a message dated 01/21/2000 5:45:04 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 My definition of a fundamentalist is one who believes his or her
worldview is the single, absolute Truth. One can be a fundamentalist
Christian, a fundamentalist Jew, a fundamentalist Materialist, a
fundamentalist Scientific rationalist, a fundamentalist UFOologist,
etc. One doesn't need to believe in mainstream Christianity to be
a fundamentalist.

This "new" definition of FUNDAMENTALIST is nonsensical.

From Oxford to Webster, dictionaries roughly define the area of
meaning for "fundamentalist," as one who is constrained within
the strict adherence-- to the most basic of CHRISTIAN tenets.

I believe the term Dave Rupp is searching for is "theologically bigoted."


Tsadowq
(has an F.U. in Theological Bigotry)

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soap-boxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Y2k: Still pretending that nothing happened?

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-   A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"
/A -Cui Bono?-

Defense Department admits that Y2k bugs caused
significant losses for spy satelites
http://www.abcnews.go.com/onair/WorldNewsTonight/wnt_000104_Y2KFailure_feature
.html

2000 Y2k bugs found in software that was "already repaired"
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap19991230_519.html#top

Third equipment malfunction reported at Japan nuclear plant
http://news.excite.com/news/r/991231/17/y2k-japan-nuclear

At Delaware tracks, 800 slot machines shut down, apparently Y2K related
http://wire.nj.com/cgi-bin/nj_nview.pl?/home1/wire/AP/Stream-Parsed/JERSEY_NEW
S/j0123_AM_NJ-Y2K--SlotsSnafu

Y2K bug causes glitch on French weather forecasters' Internet site
http://www.boston.com/dailynews/365/world/Y2K_bug_causes_glitch_on_Frenc:.shtm
l

Japanese nuclear plant jumps ahead to 2036
http://www.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,500149648-500182164-500747591-
0,00.html

Y2K Computer Glitch Reported at Tennessee Nuclear Weapons Plant
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGI6MCN7Z2C.html

Y2K glitch briefly hinders Arkansas nuclear plant
http://www.techserver.com/noframes/story/0,2294,500149013-500180976-500737881-
0,00.html

Y2K bug causes minor glitches in banks' email and credit card systems
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html?s=asia
/headlines/000102/technology/afp/Y2K_bug_causes_minor_glitches_in_banks__email
_and_credit_card_systems.html

Minneapolis pub fixes bug by resetting register to 1972
http://www.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,500149646-500182160-500747583-
0,00.html

False alarm set off over chemical weapons depot
http://www.seattle-pi.com/local/chem01.shtml

Minor Y2K problem hits eight electric utilities
http://news.excite.com/news/r/000101/03/y2k-usa-utilities

Global Markets Rally As Y2K Glitches Emerge
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2103/ts/yk_leadall_23.html

Y2K glitch delays New Mexico teens' licenses
http://www.nandotimes.com/noframes/story/0,2107,500149645-500182159-500747773-
0,00.html

Video store Y2K glitch totes up a century of late charges

http://flash.al.com/cgi-bin/al_nview.pl?/home1/wire/AP/Stream-Parsed/FINANCIAL
/f0024_AM_Y2K-WayLateVideo

U.S. Recovers Spy System Hit by Y2K Glitch
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/2103/ts/yk_spy_1.html

Satellite Station Back to Normal
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/2103/tc/y2k_satellites_1.html

Y2K error gives bank customer extra £4m
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/Digital/Update/y2k030100.shtml

Gambia gets hit by computer bug
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/afp/article.html?s=asia/headli
nes/000102/world/afp/Gambia_gets_hit_by_computer_bug.html

Korea Sees First Major Y2K Problem
http://www.abcnews.go.com/ABC2000/abc2000world/koreaproblem000102.html

In One of Few Problems, Link to Spy Satellite Fails
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/mil-military.html

Church bells sound Italy's only Y2K hitch so far
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/reuters2102_457.html

New computer viruses crop up with year 2000
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headlines/
000104/world/afp/New_computer_viruses_crop_up_with_year_2000.html

Technicians flooded by PC owner calls
http://www2.startribune.com/stOnLine/cgi-bin/article?thisStory=81246096

NASA registers "minor anomalies" in year 2000
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html?s=asia
/headlines/000102/technology/afp/NASA_registers__minor_anomalies__in_year_2000
.html

ANALYSIS: Think of Y2K as a 'chronic condition'
http://www.techserver.com/noframes/story/0,2294,500149824-500182534-500750925-
0,00.html

First glitch for Y2K surfaces: ATM card problem called 'very limited'
http://www.sacbee.com/news/news/local07_2103.html

Zanzibar television hit by millennium computer bug
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html?s=asia
/headlines/000103/technology/afp/Zanzibar_television_hit_by_millennium_compute
r_bug.html

Small businesses bitten?
http://www.washtimes.com/business/business2-010400.htm

Y2K's Slow Burn
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap2104_198.html

Computer Glitch Affects Tracking of Aircraft in New Zealand
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGILWKB703C.html

Y2K Bug Bites Al Gore
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/2103/aponline185705_000.htm

World warned millennium bug not squashed yet
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/business/afp/article.html?s=asia/hea
dlines/000102/business/afp/World_warned_millennium_bug_not_squashed_yet.html

Swedish Internet banking is hit by browser bug
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/technology/afp/article.html?s=asia
/headlines/000103/technology/afp/Swedish_Internet_banking_is_hit_by_browser_bu
g.html

Computer Malfunction Delays Flights
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/2103/aponline224455_000.htm

Y2K Hits Basic Life Services: Chocolates And Videos

[CTRL] A domestic terrorrist in our midst?

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] Who Or What Killed The TRUTH?

FIRST

On Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:51:41 -0700, watcher wrote:
Scripture has much to say about the demise of
the (tannin)  i.e.  Hebrew for dinosaur...

NEXT.

In a message dated 11/24/1999 12:44:04 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Interesting. My gift to you: John 8:44,
Revelation 2:9  3:9  possibly others.
See too Galatians 4:16.

LAST.

Interesting. Here is the FBI gift to YOU---[EMAIL PROTECTED]

PROJECT MEGIDDO REPORT

The attached analysis, entitled PROJECT MEGIDDO, is an FBI
strategic assessment of the potential for domestic terrorism in
the United States undertaken in anticipation of or response to
the arrival of the new millennium.

SECTION III  CHRISTIAN IDENTITY

Christian Identity is an ideology which asserts that the white
Aryan race is God's chosen race and that whites compromise
the ten lost tribes of Israel. There is no single document that
expresses this belief system. Adherents refer to the Bible to
justify their racist ideals. Interpreting the Book of Genesis,
Christian Identity followers assert that Adam was preceded
by other, lesser races, identified as "the beasts of the field"
(Gen. 1:25). Eve was seduced by the snake (Satan) and
gave birth to two seedlines: Cain, the direct descendent of
Satan and Even, and Able, who was of good Aryan stock
through Adam. Cain then became the progenitor of the
Jews in his subsequent matings with the non-Adamic
races. Christian Identity adherents believe the Jews are
predisposed to carry on a conspracy against the Adamic
seed line and today have achieved almost complete
control of the earth. This is referred to as the two-seedline
doctrine, which provides Christian Identity followers with
a biblical justification for hatred.

EXCERPT FROM PAGE 14

And by the way, "watcher"..

I missed your original post, so I have no clue as
to what you were originally attempting to express.

But, from your quote above-- which itself appears to want
to speak about "tannin", I believe that you are in error.

BeHeMoTh is the Hebrew word for dinosaur, as TaNYN is
Hebrew for DRAGON, and is theologically associated with
Rahab or Leviathan as well.

Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Copiers used to Track us? Maybe!

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 11/22/1999 3:57:38 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The answer from a Xerox repair technician is, "I don't know if that
is being done but with a digital color copy machine, IT IS POSSIBLE."

Also, you can't make a copy in Kinkos without being caught
live on video tape. There is literally a camera on every single
copying machine, work desk, sales counter, computer station

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Waco Motive.

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 11/15/1999 2:07:18 PM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 These 'astrological signs' were what I used to explain
the basis to Koresh. Mr. Koresh's excitement seemed
more focused on the aspect that he could relate
something new about the Bible. 

"I just found me a brand new box of matches...
And what he knows, you ain't got time to learn"

???

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

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Om

[CTRL] Rothschild/Israel article

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

The link below leads to the text which only works
if you are on AOL...So, I have included the text.
A HREF="aol://4344:30.L100CCgu.7214503.626705502"
 11/10: Rothschild to provide financial services in Israel/A

Rothschild to provide financial services in Israel

TEL AVIV, Nov 10 (Reuters) - La Compagnie Financiere Edmond de Rothschild
Banque, a unit of Edmond et Benjamin de Rothschild Group, said on Wednesday
it had opened a subsidiary in Israel to provide financial services.

In a statement the bank said its Israeli subsidiary, Edmond de Rotshchild
Investment Services Ltd, would provide asset management, venture capital and
other financial services to Israeli investors and foreign clients who want to
invest in Israel.

The new subsidiary is due to start commercial operations in early December.

The statement added that the Rothschild Group was planning to set up its
first venture capital fund in Israel, which would focus on making initial
investments in early-stage high-tech companies.

Senior officials of the group, including the Baron Benjamin de Rothschild,
will be in Israel in late November to launch the new subsidiary, the
statement said.

07:51 11-10-99

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Christians and Conspiracy Theorists

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

This must be a coincidence, because this is about
the sixth different version of this story that I have
received in the past couple of months.

What do Christians and Conspiracy Theorists share in common?

We are the threat.

We are being prelabled as the chaos behind Y2K.

Take a guess as to who the Order is...

Report: Y2K Violence Threat Real

.c The Associated Press

 WASHINGTON (AP) - An FBI report prepared for the nation's law enforcement
officials says the threat of violence by extremists to mark the new
millennium is ``very real,'' The Washington Post reported.

The bureau said in a written statement on Oct. 20 that it was preparing the
report, entitled Project Megiddo, and would share it with police chiefs at
their upcoming convention.

The agency said the document analyzes ``the potential for extremist criminal
activity in the United States by individuals or domestic groups who attach
special significance to the year 2000.''

The Post reported in Sunday's editions that it had obtained a copy of the
report, which FBI officials have said might eventually be made public.

The first official audience is to be a closed-door meeting of the
International Association of Chiefs of Police in Charlotte, N.C., on
Wednesday.

``The threat posed by extremists as a result of perceived events associated
with the Year 2000 is very real,'' the Post quoted the report as saying.
``The volatile mix of apocalyptic religious and (New World Order) conspiracy
theories may produce violent acts aimed at precipitating the end of the world
as prophesied in the Bible.''

The Post said that while most of the report focuses on domestic threats, one
portion is devoted to Jerusalem, where the FBI says an influx of tourists
making pilgrimages and millennial cults will add to the danger.

``Israeli officials are extremely concerned that the Temple Mount, an area
already seething with tension and distrust among Muslims and Jews, will be
the stage for violent encounters between religious zealots,'' the Post quoted
the study as saying. ``Additionally, several religious cults have already
made inroads into Israel, apparently in preparation for what they believe to
be the endtimes.''

The research report is named Megiddo after an ancient battleground in Israel
cited in the Bible's New Testament as the site of a millennial battle between
forces of good and evil.

The FBI said earlier it would examine ideologies ``which advocate or call for
violent action beginning in the year 2000.''

``Such ideologies motivate violent white supremacists who seek to initiate a
race war; apocalyptic cults which anticipate a violent Armageddon; radical
elements of private citizen militias who fear that the United Nations will
initiate an armed takeover of the United States and subsequently establish a
One World Government, and other groups or individuals which promote violent
millennial agendas,'' the FBI said in its earlier statement.

The report also outlines indicators of potential violence, possible
preparations for violence and possible targets of millennial extremists.

``Our concern is with fringe, hate or apocalyptic groups or lone wolf members
of them who may pose a threat,'' FBI spokesman Bill Carter said. ``We're not
focusing on militias.''

Citing the report, the Post said agents have discovered that in preparation
for the new millennium, certain individuals have been acquiring weapons,
storing food and clothing, raising funds, procuring safe houses, preparing
compounds, surveying potential targets and recruiting converts to their cause.

AP-NY-10-30-99 2351EDT

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] As BELOW...cont'd: Eternal ramifications

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Re: [CTRL] Cycles of Civilization - As below is above?

In a message dated 10/26/1999 11:37:34 AM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The formula, as I learned it, is "As above, so below; as below, so above;
 for the accomplishment of the One Thing." Microcosm and Macrocosm reflect
 *each other*--

This is understood. The mathematical relationship between
microcosm and macrocosm is undeniable. The subject being
discussed was that, it is UNlikely that stone age man simply
learned the pattern of the stars, and used it as an archetype
to pass along information of a patriarchal nature.

We also take notice of the statement regarding that this "is the
very basis of ceremonial magic, whereby the magician's actions
both mirror and influence the actions of the gods/demons/entities
one is seeking to control." This seems to relate directly to the
biblical mandate which prohibits the use of the micro/macro
relationship FOR the very purposes of occultic control,
manipulation, or self-glorification of man by man.

With that said...

The magnetic effect of the Sun, Moon, and stars can
be recorded by means of technology, and further, this
recordable effect is chartable through astrology, which
can definately give us insight to daily lives if we are to
ignore biblical prohibition of such action.

Again, if  "as below, is above" were consistently true,
the daily events of a human's life would dictate to the
stars some type of magnetic (or yet unknown form
of) governance, charting a daily course for the stars
"above".

In this fashion, the "above" is definately
NOT a reflection of  the "below".

Yet, that which is "below" can still be found as
being remarkably challenged by the parameters
(electromagnetics, etc.) which continue "above".

This is not to say, that we can completely rule out
the possibility of  "as BELOW, is above"...as if to
say that this phenomena cannot be found at all...

We previously mentioned that the Bible bars out the
option of seeking to prophecy from the stars in an
astrological sense (to glorify man), but, it is also
clear that the stars serve a purpose in God's plan
for mankind (GEN 1:14; PS 19:1-5).

In the biblical paradigm, all who believe in Jesus are called
"Abraham's seed" (GAL 3). This multitudiness seed, was
promised by Abraham's God, to be multiplied "as the stars
of heaven"...(GEN 17; GEN 22; etc.).

In this same fashion, the Bible continues to make use of
this symbology, equating the glory of resurrected believers
in Christ with the variance in light reflected from the stars
themselves (I COR 15).

The Bible also informs us that a portion (1/3) of the
heavenly host (stars) are used to represent one third
of the already fallen angelic host of heaven (REV 12).

Finally, the Bible also tells us (ISA 65; II PET 3; REV 21),
that at some future point in time, there will be a "new
heavens, and new earth."

As our temporal "earthly/below" actions and decisions
are biblically shown to ultimately effect our eternal
"heavenly/above" status...and, as this status is also
biblically shown to be reflected in the heavens

the entire spectrum of biblical salvation comes to
it's grand finale at the end of the Grand Precession.

Not only does a third portion of the existing
"heavens" represent the fallen Luciferians,
but it also includes "stars" to represent
those who currently might be, (or those
who have already been), foolish enough
to follow along in the rebellion of making
themselves as gods.

These "wandering stars" (JUDE 13) come to earth, and
end up following the course charted by the Luciferians..

In the biblical paradigm, the mazzaroth reflects the
current and ever changing, still UNfinished condition
of the physical embodiement of spiritual souls, as
we enter into this dimension of time/space on Earth.

Since astrology is but the recognition of this ongoing
process-- through use of comprehending the "stellar"
(and electromagnetic) effect that these heavenly
bodies have upon us in the flesh, it becomes more
obvious why the Bible speaks of a "new heavens
and new earth", as, when these events reach their
final resolve, the current mazzaroth will have need
of being renewed-- so that the "former shall not be
remembered, nor come into mind" (ISA 65).

We also recognize that, to leave these heavenlies
in existence would only continue to have the same
negative effect that the broken Earth Star patterns
on Earth's grid currently show.

Our daily lives do not bring a DAILY effect on the
chartable course of heavenly bodies, but, in the
biblicaly paradigm, "as below, is above," is seen
to be true in the realm of eternity.

Tsadowq





So, from the biblical paradigm,

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange lis

[CTRL] Did Egyptians build DIA?

[Tsadowq]

s been recorded
by countless Masonic authors on this subject.

Well, considering the harmony amongst Masonic authors
on Osiris/Heaven and Isis/Earth, any Masonic researcher
worth their salt knows that the "B" option is no option at all.

It seems just a little bit silly to assume that the Masonic
meaning falls short, while choosing to believe that what
was widely known by the Egyptian population AS A
WHOLE, is the "real" and "actual" secret.

Again, we ask the simple question:

Who cares about what was COMMON KNOWLEDGE
concerning the "gods" of Egypt thousands of years
agoand what does any of this have to do with DIA?

THE HEART OF MASONIC DOCTRINE
This whole Osiris/Isis issue is only the first clue,
as the further we dig, we find that these "opposing
polarities" actually represent the opposing forces
of the "ASTRAL LIGHT."

If we dig further, we will find that this "astral light"
comes from the He-goat of the Sabbat, the ancient
serpent, or Lucifer.

In the Masonic arena, the entire Osiris/Isis reverence
is nothing more than a convenient way of hiding the
worship of Lucifer, a payment of "due respect" to the
ASTRAL LIGHT BEARER.

Eliphas Levi, Aleister Crowley, Manly P. Hall,
Albert Pike...Read their writings on this subject.

Do your homework, and you will not only find
this to be true, but you will be able to irrefutably
document it as well.

Finally.

Anyone who would like to confirm what I previously put forth
on the MASONIC DOCTRINE of Osiris/Heaven and Isis/Earth,
should spend some money in a used/antiquarian book store.

Next, spend the more precious time that it will take to
put the pieces of the puzzle together (from the above
list of "illuminated" authors).

Anyone who wants to confirm what DASgoat and sno0wl are
telling us is the "actual" or "real" Egyptian mythology, can
go get a book from their kids high school library and read it.

Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Egyptian/Masonic, etc.....

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] Did Egyptians build DIA?

In a message dated 10/25/1999 3:00:31 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I could argue that homosexual anteaters from the
planet Wazoo and their human minions have ruled us
SECRETLY since time immemorial 

Now stop thatyou are just giving David Icke
ideas for "The Biggest Secret - part two"

hehehehehe..

In a message dated 10/25/1999 3:00:31 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 As I see it, it doesn't MATTER what the ancient Egyptians
REALLY believed -- the main subject here is what (some)
Freemasons/Illuminati TELL US the Egyptians "secretly"
believed and that is sufficient for the purpose of your
argument, which has its OWN points to make

I definately agree.

In a message dated 10/25/1999 3:00:31 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 For the sake of argument, let's even ASSUME that
what these groups tell us is based on the truth -- but let's
make it clear that this is just an ASSUMPTION. 

Yes, Masonic truth might be viewed as "the world according to".

I appreciate the time you have taken in clarifying your
previous statements, and if the misunderstanding was
mine own, then I am even more appreciative.

It appears, after reading this last post, that we are in
virtual agreement on both the subject at large, and
also how our effort in exploiting the meaning behind
the DIA symbology.

Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: Heavenly Osiris and Earthly Isis? No doubt.

[Tsadowq]

I am resending this post and attachment
as it appears that it did not go through
the first time (yesterday).

If this is a duplicate mailing

In my very best Maxwell Smart voice: "Sorry, Chief."




Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] DIA tidbits

=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=

What Tsadowq originally said:
There is, however, another painting at DIA which never seems to
make it onto the web. It depicts "Mother Earth - Father Sky",
which is basically another way of saying Isis and Osiris.
 
To which sno0wl replied:
I think this is basically inaccurate, if you are 
referring to Egyptian cosmology and mythology.

=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=

Basically inaccurate according to WHO?

Egyptian cosmology and mythology according to WHO?

First, let's ask the following question:
What was the SUBJECT of the original post?

The SUBJECT was the MASONIC LINK with 
Denver International New World Airport.

Since we were discussing the Masonic link to the use 
of symbology at this location, our own understanding 
should at least conform to the definitions that the 
Illuminated Masons themselves would immediately 
recognize from within their own ranks.

The writings of both Grand Commander Albert Pike and 
33° Manly P. Hall are replete with language which clearly 
backs up my statement regarding Mother Earth/Isis and 
Father Sky/Osiris.

The Square, is the symbol of the earth, 
the material baser portion-- It is Isis.

The Compass, is the symbol of the heavens, 
the spiritual and moral portion-- It is Osiris.

The Masonic Square and Compass which graces the 
capstone at Denver's New World Airport represents 
the heavenly Osiris and the earthly Isis.

As I said previously, when my website goes
up, this will be explained in irrefutable detail

.right from the forked tongues of the serpents themselves.

Tsadowq

[CTRL] The DIA painting: Mother/Earth - Father/Sky

[Tsadowq]

Okay, let's see if it goes through THIS time.

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] DIA tidbits

=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=

What Tsadowq originally said:
There is, however, another painting at DIA which never seems to
make it onto the web. It depicts "Mother Earth - Father Sky",
which is basically another way of saying Isis and Osiris.
 
To which sno0wl replied:
I think this is basically inaccurate, if you are 
referring to Egyptian cosmology and mythology.

=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=

Basically inaccurate according to WHO?

Egyptian cosmology and mythology according to WHO?

First, let's ask the following question:
What was the SUBJECT of the original post?

The SUBJECT was the MASONIC LINK with 
Denver International New World Airport.

Since we were discussing the Masonic link to the use 
of symbology at this location, our own understanding 
should at least conform to the definitions that the 
Illuminated Masons themselves would immediately 
recognize from within their own ranks.

The writings of both Grand Commander Albert Pike and 
33° Manly P. Hall are replete with language which clearly 
backs up my statement regarding Mother Earth/Isis and 
Father Sky/Osiris.

The Square, is the symbol of the earth, 
the material baser portion-- It is Isis.

The Compass, is the symbol of the heavens, 
the spiritual and moral portion-- It is Osiris.

The Masonic Square and Compass which graces the 
capstone at Denver's New World Airport represents 
the heavenly Osiris and the earthly Isis.

As I said previously, when my website goes
up, this will be explained in irrefutable detail

.right from the forked tongues of the serpents themselves.

Tsadowq

[CTRL] Heavenly Osiris and Earthly Isis? No doubt.

[Tsadowq]

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] DIA tidbits

=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=

What Tsadowq originally said:
There is, however, another painting at DIA which never seems to
make it onto the web. It depicts "Mother Earth - Father Sky",
which is basically another way of saying Isis and Osiris.
 
To which sno0wl replied:
I think this is basically inaccurate, if you are 
referring to Egyptian cosmology and mythology.

=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=ll=

Basically inaccurate according to WHO?

Egyptian cosmology and mythology according to WHO?

First, let's ask the following question:
What was the SUBJECT of the original post?

The SUBJECT was the MASONIC LINK with 
Denver International New World Airport.

Since we were discussing the Masonic link to the use 
of symbology at this location, our own understanding 
should at least conform to the definitions that the 
Illuminated Masons themselves would immediately 
recognize from within their own ranks.

The writings of both Grand Commander Albert Pike and 
33° Manly P. Hall are replete with language which clearly 
backs up my statement regarding Mother Earth/Isis and 
Father Sky/Osiris.

The Square, is the symbol of the earth, 
the material baser portion-- It is Isis.

The Compass, is the symbol of the heavens, 
the spiritual and moral portion-- It is Osiris.

The Masonic Square and Compass which graces the 
capstone at Denver's New World Airport represents 
the heavenly Osiris and the earthly Isis.

As I said previously, when my website goes
up, this will be explained in irrefutable detail

.right from the forked tongues of the serpents themselves.

Tsadowq

[CTRL] Cycles of Civilization - As below is above?

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Re: [CTRL] Convergence: Cycles of Civilization

In a message dated 10/23/1999 2:20:26 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Also, if you read "Hamlet's Mill," the bottom line is that our
constellations and zodiac --a projection of archetypal motifs onto
the stars, a kind of "written" record used to teach posterity--
the celestial blueprint was first created at an astronomically
remarkable moment about 6000 BC, when the GALACTIC
plane intersected the path of the sun and planets at the
equinoctial point."

This theory appears to unnaturally reverse "as above, is below"--
denying the fundamental relationship of the microcosm to the
macrocosm.

As an example

We know that the Earth (and it's occupants) are continually
effected by the heat, light, and electromagnetic fields (both
polar and equatorial) of the Sun.

Each person, while having the same basic components,
are still unique to their own matter through both their
individual predisposition of DNA, and their natal position
(date/time stamp) within the Universe. We recognize the
effect of these "powers" on the whole of mankind's indivi-
duality as natal and conceptual astrology...

Each planet, individually unique to it's own matter, is not
only guided along it's path by the Sun's magnetic "leash,"
but also "soaks in" or "reflects" said solar benefactors
back toward the Earth itself.  We recognize the effects
of these "powers" on the whole of the Earth (as Earth
Stars), which are but one of the factors for recognizing
the planetary grid...

This is of course, probably why the Giza pyramids line
up to Orion and the Chinese pyramids line up to Draco...

AS BELOW, IS ABOVE?

The Bible forbids "fortune telling," which at least acknowledges
the reality of the possibility; and, we know that charting a daily
horoscope through the use of natal astrology can give some
form of advance insight or perspective toward the daily events
of a person's life.

Individuals here on Earth may THINK that they know where they
are going on a daily basis (the trajectory of their daily life, if you
will), but the changing components of daily life, and their very
POSITION on the earth alter those plans

Accidents happen.

Conversely, the trajectories of the heavenlies seem
to continue along their seemingly beaten path...

From this beaten path, it is their continually moving orbital
presence and magnetic reflection that are recognized as
having an effect on mankind, and NOT vice-versa.

We do acknowledge the paradox of this situation--

But surely, the "bottom line" of "Hamlet's Mill" must be
INcorrect in stating that the projection of archetypal motifs
onto the stars was MERELY a kind of "written" record used
to teach posterity, as this would ULTIMATELY mean that
the actions of mankind would indicate the POSITION of
the heavenlies, rather than vice-versa.

Whether or not this next quote is taken from "Hamlet's Mill"
or from DASgoat, I am unsure, but in either case, this second
half of the above statement proves to be more of the same:

In a message dated 10/23/1999 2:20:26 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"...the celestial blueprint was first created at an astronomically
remarkable moment about 6000 BC, when the GALACTIC
plane intersected the path of the sun and planets at the
equinoctial point."

This is like saying that Americans are afforded individual
and humane rights because they are RECOGNIZED in
the Bill of Rights.

DASgoat, please correct me if I am reading these statements in
the wrong light, but these remarks seem to infer that it was finite
man who made up the schematics from scratch, and imposed
them on the Universe which existed prior to his (flesh) creation.

It would appear far more likely, that this is the moment in
time where "stone age man" came to these REALIZATIONS.

Realization is not creation.

Discovery is not invention.

By whom, however, and whenever this celestial connection
was made, speaks only toward the realization and discovery
of that which had previously existed.

Some might say, that as he began to search for his
microcosmic place in the macrocosmic Universe,
mankind was Divinely guided toward learning the
meaning of stars and constellations for the purpose
of revealing far greater truths (GEN 1:14; PS 19:1-5);
helping us to further understand the possibility of
expanding our just and finite place therein.

But, mankind's self adulating pulp fiction prefers
to exaggerate his presence and achievement--
sometimes, even to that of Godhood.

Giving the already existing celestial mechanics and magnetic
framework of the Universe a name does not call it into existence.

Unless of course, the namegiver is God Himself;
and in my book, mankind is not God.

Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational excha

[CTRL] DIA tidbits

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 10/19/1999 1:39:18 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 It says:  "I was once a little child who longed for other worlds.
 But I am no more a child for I have known fear.
 I have learned to hate...
 How tragic, then, is youth which lives with enemies, with gallows ropes.
 Yet, I still believe I only sleep today, that I'll wake up, a child again,
 and, start to laugh and play."

There is something in smaller print at the
bottom, which I cannot make out 

This letter was written by a child who died December 18, 1945, at
the Auschwitz Concentration Camp. The Indian who is pictured in
the grave, you will see has a white glow coming from the eyes.

This, according to my research, indicates "soullessness".

I wish I had more time to write on this subject, and this is
certainly not a ploy to "hock" tapesBut, I am currently
finishing a video series, which is a condensed version of
my previously published book:

ATLANTIS: The Beast That Was, Is Not, And Yet Is.

Part two of the series, explains in detail the significance to
this set of DIA murals. I am finally at a point where I can
begin to section off some of my time and put up a website--
and the DIA murals will definately be part of what will be
included at the site.

The murals that everyone seems to be familiar with, are at a
very common area that is frequented by passengers as they
exit the elevators from the underground trains (leading from
the concourses), heading toward the baggage pick-up area.

There is, however, another painting at DIA which never seems to
make it onto the web. It depicts "Mother Earth - Father Sky",
which is basically another way of saying Isis and Osiris.

Despite the objection of those on this list who whine at
the attempt to send "unsolicited" .jpg attachments to
the CTRL list, I will, at my next convenience, scan the
photo and send it anyway.

Those who would snivel about it-- can simply choose
NOT to download the file, and keep their pie hole shut.

Needless to say, my overall opinion of the DIA/Masonic
connection is unfavorable, and, the murals present at
DIA's "New World" Airport are NOT coincidental--

They are only part of a much bigger picture.

Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] REALLY scary mind control

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 09/24/1999 5:45:18 AM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 There's got to be an explanation 

Great trick...Just pay attention to the cards that
are replaced, rather than the card which appears
to be missing.

While watching for your "own" card to disappear,
all of the *other* cards are ALSO changed.

Of course "your" card is missing

EVERY SINGLE card has been changed.

The "mind control" here, is counting upon
the mindset of the mark, who is amazed
that their "single" card is gone.

This occurs because they have not noticed that
ALL the cards have been changed, as the webpage
author has cleverly chosen J, Q, and K face cards,
as well as a series of 7's and 8's which are not easily
distinguished--one from another; (unless you are
looking for the change).

Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] THE CULT MEMBERS WHO BURNED DOWN WACO

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Fellow Lollards:

THE CULT MEMBERS WHO BURNED DOWN WACO

The media hisses rumors, telling us that there is now
(suddenly) an actual pursuit to reveal the "truth" of
what really happened at Waco--

As if we are to sincerely believe that any
of these serpents have a conscience.

Meanwhile, all of the printed news coverage which makes
it past the desks of editors nationwide, still includes words
such as "cult leader" or "compound" to describe Koresh
and the Branch Davidian living quarters.

The established connections between the Powers That Be
and the Media itself have been well proven, if not generally
accepted amongst conspiracy theorists: The Media has
always been used as a tool by the spin doctors to forge
the opinion of the mindless masses.

So long as negative words are still being used to purposely
slant the public's opinion of the Davidians, we should take this
as a sure sign that the current and supposed search for truth
concerning Waco, is nothing more than diversion; a purposeful
distraction intended to cause the audience to look at the right
hand of the magicians, while the left hand is either hiding the
props left exposed from the last trick foisted upon us, or is
cautiously reaching for the next draconian magic tool from
their bag of tricks.

We are forced to look back on history, and ask for just ONE
example, where the truth has ever been exposed by the very
people who palmed off the deceptive ruse in the first place.

Several years ago, Attorney General Janet Reno was
questioned as to WHO actually started the deadly fire
on that fateful day in Waco, and her carefully worded
response should tell us all we need to know.

While calling the Davidian complex "the compound", Reno
told us that she had no doubt, that "the cult members"
burned the Davidian house and church to the ground.

If you think about it...

She wasn't really lying.

:::still muttering:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] TAPPING THE POLICE/WIRE TAP???

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Someone sent in an article that discussed the peril
of a man who was stopped while driving, and he
TAPE RECORDED the conversation, and ended
up getting charged for WIRE TAPPING?

I accidentally deleted this post, and
would greatly appreciate it if someone
out there could forward the article
to me. Thanks.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] American, As Language

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 08/17/1999 3:01:27 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 If our Kindly Shepherds can get the word out in little
fragments that convey a mood but never come up to the
level of an idea, wouldn't that be good? Then we could go
about our business, subject only to detailed and constant
oversight by legions of Bolshevized lawyers and bureaucrats,
and leave unpleasant topics like foreign policy and killing-
large-numbers-of-foreigners-more-or-less-all-the-God-damn
ed-time 

What an excellent article; it's many statements like this one
above, might remind us of Denis Miller's brand of insightful and
sardonic humor: We would laugh, or at least chuckle, if we could
only get past the sting of how ridiculously true the comment is.

Thanks.
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] The Protocols, The Bible, David Icke....

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] The Protocols

My personal opinion is that a person would be without any
understanding, if one was to completely take in the Protocols
in their entirety, and then deny that the schemes listed therein
have not clearly been manifested throughout the last century.

With that fact not being able to be faithfully denied,
it is fairly clear that we, being at least 100 years
removed, will ever know exactly who wrote it.

We would be derelict in our duty as revisionist historians,
if we did not at least acknowledge that the plans within the
Protocols are very, very, similar to other writings or known
plans of the NWO crowd.

In a message dated 8/13/99 4:15:41 PM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I thought it was pretty much common knowledge that the
Protocols were written by the Merovingian Bloodline. They
consider themselves gods. And they are not original Jews
at all, being Khazars who converted to Judiasm in 740 A.D.
They are barbarians - ruthless, cunning and greedy 

  REVELATION CHAPTER 2
  9)"...I know the blasphemy of them which say they are
 Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

  REVELATION CHAPTER 3
  9)  "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which
   say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will
   make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to
   know that I have loved thee."

Of course, this is rather strange, considering that the ruling
elite, according to David Icke, are reptillians who wrote the
Bible.  We should certainly wonder why the very authors of
the allegedly alien authored Bible, would alert us to their
presence in passages like this of Revelation, let alone
Genesis chapter six (6).

Half the time Icke quotes the Bible to "prove" his theory, and
the other half he turns around and calls it a bunch of hogwash.

The Bible also says that a double minded man is
unstable in all his ways (I PET 1:8). Icke and his
latest book are more proof of what was declared
by the apostle Peter millennia ago.

In a world filled with darkness, the only light that a person
might achieve from Icke's "biggest secret," is that from
giving the 517 pages (of blatant cruelty to trees), the
Fahrenheit 451 treatment.

But then again, why waste a match.

It might better serve, if each page is ripped out individually
and used to line cat boxes around the world.

:::considering the purchase of a cat-- to put Icke's book to use:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 8/9/99 6:40:36 AM Mountain
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Goethe, member of the Illuminati, and significantly, author of "Faust" ...


;¬)

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] David Icke is a Reptillian Insider

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Post:
[CTRL] "Exposing the Deceptions About the Origins of Modern Religions"

In a message dated 99-08-07 11:58:14 EDT, you write:
 IRES Box 7536 Newport Beach, CA 92658-7536.
 USA  1-hour: $30  2-hour: $34.95

The information contained in these videos, is covered (practically
word for word) in the fourth and fifth chapters of David Icke's latest
book. If you buy Icke's book, you can get the same information as
contained in the videos, plus plenty of good laughs.

Icke's "The Biggest Secret", IMHO, is
another fine example of misinformation--

Pieces of truth, carefully and sparingly woven
throughout an abundance of absolute rubbish.

This method of distributing misinformation appears to
be the most popular, as the minds of the mindless will
then place the pieces of truth in the same category as
that which nakedly appears to be the excrement of
large horned male animals.

Icke's book is only helping further the *actual* Agenda...

It does so, by helping readers to think that all conspiracy
theories belong in the same category as those who might
subscribe to some of his book's more outlandish statements.

Moreover, most people will never read Icke's book--
they will only hear about it. When they hear about it,
they probably only hear the real outrageous claims.

So..even the people who *already* thought conspiracy
theories to be silly, will continue thinking this all the more...

I don't know how the rest of this group might feel
about David Icke, but personally, I believe that he
is one of the Reptillians Insiders himself...

:::goes back to reading Goethe:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Mysterious military sites in US

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

:::wakes up as implant automatically turns on computer:::

In a message dated 99-08-01 05:43:50 EDT, you write:
 The following are excerpts from an interview done with a former
military officer who worked as an inspector for the Joint Chiefs of
Staff (U.S. Pentagon/Dept. of Defense).  "Mr. Sea" (not his real
name) has personally inspected many of the mysterious military
sites that are being erected around the U.S 

Mr "Sea" should be Mr. C, as his real name is Al Cuppet.

Again, this news is WAY over two years old.

:::mind-controlled into going back to sleep:::

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Biometrics Are Coming!

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

The article below is from the following website.
http://www.intellectualcapital.com/issues/issue225/item4244.asp

The links at the end of the article are interesting as well.

xxx

Biometrics Are Coming! Biometrics Are Coming!
by Amitai Etzioni
Thursday, April 29, 1999
Comments: 85 posts

Less Privacy Is Good for Us (and You) : Privacy should not be treated as
a sacred right, argues Amitai Etzioni.

Search
 Here we go again. While civil libertarians so far have been unable to
cite even one incident of abuse by the new biometrics industry, they are
rolling out their heaviest guns to try to shoot it down.

Biometrics is a technology that recognizes a person by one of his or her
unique biological features, such as the pattern of his or her hands,
eyes or voice. Wells Fargo recently introduced automatic teller machines
(ATMs) that recognize their customers’ faces. Similarly, Mr. Payroll
Corp., a Texas check-cashing service, welcomes its customers personally
because the computer is familiar with their mug.

Entry to Disney’s Magic Kingdom can be secured by laying your hand at
the appropriate place at the gate. Purdue Employees Federal Credit Card
Union clients need not even say “open sesame” to get to their cash;
touching a plate with their finger suffices. And numerous other uses are
coming online or are in advanced stages of development.

A personal communal boon

Opposition to these new technologies is particularly troubling given
that the benefits are considerable. Once biometric devices are more
fully developed, and as unit costs decline (they already have fallen as
low as $99 per scanner), a person may forget his password, pin number
and access code, and leave his ID card and keys at home.

Consumers can be recognized
by biological features such as
fingerprints, eyes or voices
Moreover, people may cease to worry about identity theft, in which
criminals acquire the identity of others to empty their bank accounts,
abuse their credit cards and leave their victims to prove their
innocence. Given proper use of biometrics, at least 1,200 Americans will
be spared this rather unsettling experience every day.

For business, biometrics promises to sharply curtail billions lost each
year due to credit-card fraud and the passing of bad checks. Maybe even
more beneficial will be the reduction in security costs, as more and
more locked doors (and computers) will respond only to those authorized.
Not all guards will get pink slips, but fewer will be needed.

Communities, too, stand to reap considerable benefits. Once biometric
devices are widely deployed, they will make it much more difficult for
the estimated 330,000 criminals to remain on the lam. These fugitives
not only avoid trial and incarceration but also often commit additional
crimes while they roam the country with little concern.

And biometrics will help child-care centers and kindergartens screen out
individuals convicted of child abuse and violent crime. (In a study
conducted by six states, they found 6,200 such employees had used false
identification documents to get jobs working with children).

Biometrics also will cut the $16 billion lost to the U.S. Treasury each
year to people who collect multiple tax refunds and Social Security
payments, and will help curb welfare fraud and illegal immigration. In
short, while biometric devices do not make coffee or do the dishes,
their potential benefits are numerous and diverse.

Critics argue that biometrics are hyped and not 100% reliable. In a test
conducted at the University of Georgia, in which 18,000 students were
screened to ensure that they did not pass their unlimited meals tickets
to friends, the scanners did not recognize some 10 students. Jim Wayman,
who studies these systems at San Jose State University, reports a
failure rate as high as 2%.

But even according to the most pessimistic assessments, biometrics
defies comparison because it is much more reliable than existing modes
of identification. While fooling biometrics is extremely difficult,
people can buy false driver's licenses and green cards for $50 in many
American towns bordering Mexico. Most college campuses are awash in
false, paper-based ID cards used to purchase drinks.

Answering the civil libertarians

Still, critics are not satisfied. Systems that rely on finger
recognition, one notes, can be fooled -- by a “freshly severed real
one.” It is not a pleasant prospect but hardly leads one to prefer
prevailing modes of identifications over biometrics.

One of these days, as biometrics are going to be employed by millions of
people, civil libertarians will find some people who have been
mistreated as a result, which no one should take lightly. But instead of
asking how to minimize such problems, and pondering whether such rare
failures could justify a rejection of biometrics, civil libertarians
condemn them wholesale. A bill introduced in the California Assembly
would 

[CTRL] George's Book of Political Lists

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: [CTRL] JFK, Jr.   Did He Offend Clinton Lately?

In a message dated 7/17/99 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Well, did he?  Does anyone read George?  Or
hear of any articles about to come-out therein? 

Last year (98), George magazine came
forth with The Book of Political LISTS.

Amongst other interesting facts, the book included a
list (including Lodge numbers) of Masonic Presidents.

The graphics on said page, showed the back of the
dollar bill, particularly, the reverse of the Great Seal.

The book also included genealogical lists which showed
how many presidents were related to each other by their
royal bloodlines-- tracing them back several centuries to
the likes of Robert of Scotland, Henry I, II; William the
Lion, Hugh Capet of France, etc.

Of course, we should be assured that it was just
coincidental that these two lists shared many of
the same names in common.

Now, I don't necessarily think that this book is a
reason to have Jr. killed...I am just sending the
information because it seemed like a good time
to do so.

:::goes back to flight simulator:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Jesus is Fiction?

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: Re: [CTRL] Christ a Fiction.

:::metamorphs into human to use keyboard:::

Regarding: Christ a Fiction (1997) Robert M. Price

I am continually amused at how trendy it has become to be one
who bashes Christianity.  Granted, most of the better (and recent)
Christian bashing, has specifically been written to appear as if it is
a clearing of the writer's conscience. Or, in the case of David Icke,
it is done to free mankind from the "prison religions" which have
been created by the reptillian forces behind the N.W.O.

After reading the piece (excerpt?) from Robert Price's testimony of
self liberty, it appears that a large portion of his seminary training
has remained ingrained in his ability to convey a message.

Case In Point:

When seeking to distance himself from what he *now* believes to
be the ignorant bliss of Christianity as a whole, his only method
of forging his own path, is to attack the faith of those-- to whose
ranks he once belonged. This, is but the reverse method which
is employed by a majority of *professing* Christians-- to attack
the elements of the world to which they once belonged.

We are forced to conclude (and sincerely hope) that this piece
is BUT an excerpt; for if we have read what Robert Price has to
say in his entirety, it appears that he has completely failed to
enlighten the reader to what he himself believes-- choosing
rather to establish who he is, by telling us whom he is not.

It is purposeful that this post does not address each
individual incorrect statement made by Price regarding
what he *now* believes to be the truth regarding the
Gospels.

It is nakedly obvious that Price has chosen to
believe in what he has *decided* are the facts.

And yet, it is this VERY SAME action which he
despises within the ranks of Christianity as a whole...

Christian's have faith in what we have decided are the facts.
Robert Price has faith in what he has decided are the facts.

While the eternal ramifications of the above decisions
remain to be seen, it is currently apparent that the
temporal decisions look terribly, terribly alike.

Where Price is wrong, is that he joins David Icke in espousing that
the historical Jesus is a myth. This is done, at the cost of purposely
overlooking the historicity of the man known as Jesus of Nazareth--
which degrades the value of the rest of his attempted argument.

That Jesus is a man of history, is not a question.  There remains,
today, in the British Museum a letter written from Pontius Pilate
to Caesar, in which, Pontius tells of his amazing face to face
confrontation with Jesus of NazarethAFTER the crucifixion.

Again, if Jesus is a myth, we might wonder why historians such
as Cornelius Tacitus would have staked his reputation (as a valid
historian) when recording the events of Christ's crucifixion in his
own works (Tacitus-Annuls XV.44).

No one ever doubts the history recorded by Josephus, except
of course when Flavius mentions the man named Jesus whom
was crucified after claiming to be the Messiah (Flavius Josephus-
Antiquities of the Jews XVIII.3.3; XX.9.1).

The same might be said of other historians such as Suetonius,
Plinius Secundus, Phlegon or even Thallus.  For crying out loud,
even the Talmud makes mention of Jesus on several occasions.

For that matter, so does the Koran.

Of course, all of these secular historians and religious scribes
(of sorts) varied GREATLY on who the historical Jesus actually
wasbut NONE of them deny that Jesus of Nazareth existed.

By making blanket statements regarding the history of Jesus
of Nazareth, Price winds up looking an awful lot like David Icke--
for if Jesus is NOT a man of history, then the Jews who wrote
of Jesus in the Talmud AND Mohammed who wrote of Jesus
in the Koran AND Flavius who recorded Jesus in the History
of the Jews--- all must be part of the "prison religion" scam
being laid upon mankind by the Metamorphin' Lizard people.

To say that there is "no Jesus" because history has lost him,
is to say that in less than two millennia from now, George
Washington will cease to exist for the same reason.

LOLby using Price's theology...in two thousand
years, HE will have never existed ALSO...LOL.

The history of Jesus of Nazareth is not truly what is being
discussed by PriceHis writing appears to be more of a
wanting toward self-justification, after expelling himself
from Christianity.

If Chrisianity has become known to be represented
by the symbol of the Cross, then agnostics should
also have a symbol to represent them

I vote that it should be a question mark.

:::metamorphs back into state of lizard:::
Tsadowq

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frauds is used politically  by differe

[CTRL] The big screen and the Big Picture

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread:  Re: [CTRL] Psychopolitics of "Phantom Menace"

In a message dated 99-07-12 06:52:22 EDT, DasGOAT writes:
entertainment has been the vehicle used by
secular types to preach their own type of vision.

Agreed

The big screen is used to enlighten
us to their version of "the Big Picture".

The small screen serves the same purpose:  TELL-A-VISION

:::turns T.V. back on:::
Tsadowq

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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] Military Families Evacuating USA....

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

HelloI'mFineThankYouVeryMuchHowAreYou,


In a message dated 99-07-07 08:16:13 EDT, somebody wrote:
Subj: Fwd: EVACUATIONS UNDERWAY
Date: 7/1/99 8:38:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ivan Shapiro)
THIRTY MILITARY FAMILIES SUDDENLY LEAVE THE U.S.


I have personally spoke with Jim Ammerman regarding this
report, and he did in fact tell me that people were leaving
military facilities for the reason stated in this CTRL post.

He did not say that they were military families, but rather
implied that they were the families of contractors who
worked on certain bases.

This is not what I find bothersome about this post to CTRL

What I find troubling, is that this conversation I had with
Ammerman took place *at least* 5 months ago, and
the events being discussed had previously taken
place approximately 5 or 6 months prior to that.

Why does the dateline on this story
imply that these events are recent?

If this is authentic news at all,
it is extremely old news.

:::smiles for the ubiquitous cameras:::
Tsadowq

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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Biotech Goes Wild

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

The following article should prove to be of interest.

http://www.techreview.com:80/articles/july99/mann.htm

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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[CTRL] SOON: The Phoenix no longer endangered....

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Fellow Lollards:

The following story is about the bald eagle being removed from
the endagered species list. What is remarkable about the article,
may be found within Clinton's few but purposely chosen words.

BEGIN CLINTON QUOTE:

``It's hard to think of a better way to celebrate the birth of a nation than
to celebrate the rebirth of our national symbol,'' the president said on
the eve of the Independence Day weekend. ``The return of the bald
eagle is a fitting cap to a century of environmental stewardship.''

END QUOTE

The entire story is below, but make note of Clinton's comments.

The birth of the nation, is the birth of Bacon's New Atlantis.

The REbirth of this nation's symbol (bald eagle = PHOENIX),
is Clinton's special little way of speaking the Brotherhood's
language-- regarding the Phoenix rising from the ashes.

His next comment mentioned that this event (the rebirth of
the Phoenix symbolized by the rebirth of the bald eagle),
was "a fitting cap" to a century of earth stewardship.

By now, we should already know, that through the space
shuttle program, N.A.S.A. has been used to give us a
message regarding the Brotherhood's Agenda:

1) Columbia
2) Enterprise
3) Endeavor
4) Discovery
5) Atlantis
6) Challenger

"A ColumbiaN Enterprise to Endeavor for the Discovery
of Atlantis; all ChallengerS will be destroyed."

With that in mind, it is notable that Clinton's remarks were
made in the presence of a captive, and tamed "Challenger".

Velly Interestingk
Tsadowq

x

Bald Eagle Soon Off Endangered List

.c The Associated Press

 By LAWRENCE L. KNUTSON

WASHINGTON (AP) - The American bald eagle, the living symbol of the
nation since 1782, is back from the brink of extinction and can now be
removed from the endangered species list, President Clinton said today.

Celebrating a three-decade struggle to protect the bald eagle against
pesticides and encroachments on its habitat, Clinton announced
a process that is expected to remove the majestic bird from the
list by July 2000.

``It's hard to think of a better way to celebrate the birth of a nation than
to celebrate the rebirth of our national symbol,'' the president said on
the eve of the Independence Day weekend. ``The return of the bald
eagle is a fitting cap to a century of environmental stewardship.''

The president was joined on a flag-backed platform on the South Lawn
of the White House by a 10-year-old bald eagle named Challenger, who
flapped his long brown wings and cocked his snowcapped head.

Challenger was blown from a nest in the wild as an eaglet and experienced
too much human contact at a young age to be able to survive in the wild.
The bird screeched during the president's remarks.

``Believe it or not,'' Clinton said, ``Ben Franklin wanted our national
symbol
to be a turkey. The press would be having a field day with that to the
present
day, wouldn't they?''

With the banning of the pesticide DDT in 1972 and the passage of the
Endangered Species Act a year later, the bald eagle began making a
dramatic recovery. Today, there are 5,800 breeding pairs.

Four years ago, with recovery well under way, the eagle
was upgraded from endangered to threatened.

Removing the bald eagle from the government's endangered list will not
expose it to new dangers and its status will be closely monitored.

The eagle will continue to be protected, from hunting or capture by two
laws: the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which prohibits the taking, killing,
possession, transportation and importation of migratory birds, and the
Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, which bans the taking, possession,
transportation, export and import of a bald or golden eagle, alive or dead.
``Taking'' is defined as shooting, poisoning, molesting or harming the bird.

When the Continental Congress in 1782 placed the bald eagle in the center of
the Great Seal of the United States, an olive branch in one claw and 13
eagles in the other, there were as many as a half-million eagles in the skies
of North America.

By 1963, however, only 417 breeding pairs remained in the lower 48 states as
a result of hunting, loss of prey and habitat and the widespread use of the
DDT.

``Our majestic eagle was slipping toward extinction,'' the
president said. ``The eagle struggled barely to survive.''

The nation declared, Clinton said, ``that extinction is not an option - not
for the eagle, not for the other creatures put here by God.''

Clinton also used the ceremony to prod Congress to approve his Lands
Legacy initiative to provide permanent financing of at least $1 billion a
year to protect wildlife habitat, farms, urban parks and natural treasures
across America.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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[CTRL] little Mary Manson

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: Marilyn Manson on Littleton

(sing-along)

There's Charlie and there's Squeeky,
There's Marilyn who's freaky,
My song is tongue and cheeky,
The Manson Family

Fellow Lollards:

In a message dated 99-06-05 13:48:16 EDT, Marilyn Manson writes:
But, admittedly, I have assumed the role of Antichrist

Antichrist?  lol

It is going to take FAR more than black nail polish and fishnet
stockings for junior girlie-man Manson to actually assume the
Antichrist (capital "A") role he attributes to himself.

In a message dated 99-06-05 13:48:16 EDT, Marilyn Manson writes:
nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.

  MATTHEW CHAPTER 10
  16)  Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
 be ye therefore WISE as serpents, and harmless as doves.

  LUKE CHAPTER 21
  15)  For I will give you a mouth and WISDOM, which all your
 adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

There are plenty other examples as well.

Of course, we don't expect Manson to actually know what
he is talking about, *especially* on biblical issues.  Still,
his ignorant and untrue statements on this subject, are
but the first knicks in his push-up bra.

It is interesting that Marilyn chose to include Koresh,
McViegh, and Jim Jones in the same sentence.

Manson actually makes a few statements that are true
enough, but he obviously lacks *real* cultural literacy.

The fact that the pro-life movement was blamed for the gunning
down of an abortionist-- is of course, a point of certain irony;
but hearing how screwed up the world is, from the wanna-be-
androgynous-alien-likes of the pancake faced, lace nightie
clad Manson, should at least be considered incongruent
absurdity to the Nth degree.

This guy (?) clearly recognizes his stature amongst the young
and influencible, but chooses the role of "Antichrist"

.And then spews his blather about how terrible the world is.

What a complete joker.

Excluding a review of "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" that I wrote
back in the 70's, this is the most type-written characters I have
committed-- toward making comment on some guy who prefers
to parade around in garter-belts and high heels.

In the case of Frankenfurter, I was greatly amused.

In the case of little Mary Manson, we might hope for an alien abduction.

Still muttering,
Tsadowq

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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Om

[CTRL] HERE are some guns that NEED to be taken away...

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Va. Town Riddled by Police Bullets

.c The Associated Press

 FAIRFAX, Va. (AP) -- Police who were practicing at the wrong shooting range
peppered a suburban neighborhood with submachine gun fire.

At least 12 homes and three vehicles were hit by the gunfire from nearly a
mile away, according to authorities. No one was injured in the incident
Monday.

One errant bullet narrowly missed a father and his 8-month-old daughter.

A weapons instructor for the District of Columbia police department took up
to a dozen officers from several jurisdictions to the district-operated
firing range on the grounds of the Lorton Correctional Complex.

The instructor mistakenly allowed the officers to fire submachine guns on a
range meant for shotguns. Up to 15 of the 9 mm bullets whizzed into a nearby
neighborhood, where they lodged in walls and cars or bounced off siding.

``Our preliminary investigation indicates officers were using a weapon on a
range they shouldn't have been on, and firing from a position they shouldn't
have been firing from,'' said Terrance W. Gainer, Washington's executive
assistant police chief.

Gainer said the instructor -- identified as Henry Rorie, 49 -- improperly led
the officers to the shotgun range when he discovered their scheduled range
was already in use.

Gainer said the instructor used ``poor judgment'' and the officers ``violated
even the minimum safety standards.''

Rorie, a 20-year police veteran, could not be reached today for comment.
Police declined to let reporters speak to Rorie today, saying the matter is
still under investigation. Rorie has an unlisted home telephone number.

Lori Hatton said one bullet crashed through her dining room window, narrowly
missing her husband, an off-duty police officer who was holding one of their
8-month-old twin girls.

``It could have killed somebody,'' she said. ``I just feel unsafe in my own
house.''

Washington Police Chief Charles Ramsey has suspended all training at the
range.

AP-NY-05-26-99 0903EDT

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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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[CTRL] Egypt's secret chambers...

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Previous Thread: [EWAR] Orbit: Tomb of Osiris, awesome update

Fellow Lollards:

In a message dated 99-05-19 12:20:19 EDT, you write:
 •THE LABYRINTH: Inside the Dark Under of the Duat. The Egyptian
Underworld is no longer a myth, an astonishing LABYRINTH, perhaps
even more miraculous than the Pyramids themselves lie under the
ground. But Unexpected dangers have confronted those who have
explored.

•THE SECRET CHAMBRES IN THE PYRAMID, some "new"
discoveries inside the Great Pyramid, and testimonies that
yield some astonishing thresholds 

x

In a message dated approximately 33 A.D., Jesus said:

  MATTHEW CHAPTER 24
  26) Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
Behold, he (Messiah) is in the DESERT; go not forth:
behold, he is in the SECRET CHAMBERS; believe it not.


I am *sure* that this is *just* a coincidence....

Tsadowq

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[CTRL] (just agreeing on the Inalienable Rights of mankind)

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

I would have just sent this offlist to Howard
personally, but I lost the original post.

Previous thread: "Why GUNS are here to stay."

In a message written some time ago, Howard Davis wrote:
The above is a most revealing statement. It shows that Nurev has
the same understanding of rights as did Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and all
the other mass murders of the past (and of the future). They have
no concept of the agreement among mature people to recognize
the humanity of others and not treat them as resources to be
exploited and killed if they get in the way. 

This is just the first statement of Howard's that I found
myself in complete agreement with. As for the rest of
Howard's post, I couldn't agree more, and couldn't have
said it better myself.

:::begins clapping with Jim Norman::
Tsadowq

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[CTRL] Why GUNS are here to stay.

[Tsadowq]

ke Joshua2 to chant their slogans FOR them.

  3) Letting enough tragedies like Columbine happen, to use
  the emotion of Joshua2's everywhere--who, do to their own
  ignorance and self-centeredness, end up destroying their
  own rights FOR the NWO crowd.

  4) Wait forty (40) more years, until the NWO crowd has an
  entire generation of people brainwashed just like Joshua2.

Joshua2, I believe that you are part of one of America's problems
that is growing at an exponential rate: Cultural Illiteracy.

While you believe yourself to have a valid and educated opinion,
you actually lack the base information; you lack an adequate
level of comprehension; both of which deprive you from under-
standing the unstated context behind that which you read,
even though you believe that you understand.

You cheer that the chocolate rations have gone up, when
they actually went down-- and do not know the difference.

Afterall, if this was not the case...How might we explain your
blatant disregard for the facts, which history has left us for the
benefit of making future decisions?

In a message dated 99-05-01 12:27:43 EDT, Joshua2 spews:
Try basket weaving instead.

Gun owners need not hide behind gun ownership as a "hobby".

Gun owners own guns, to protect the rest of their Inalienable Rights.

Period.

WHY GUNS ARE HERE TO STAY

Lastly, we need not bring up this argument:

"Cars kill thousands of people, but they don't outlaw cars."

This argument is easily debunked by the anti-gun ninnies who
are quick to point out that CARS ARE NOT DESIGNED TO KILL,
but that."Guns are designed to kill".

Yes...Yes, they are.  Guns ARE designed to kill.

They are also designed to protect the Inalienable Rights of men.

Their powerful design, may also serve the purpose of killing
people bent on taking that which does not belong to them

like the Inalienable Rights of the rest of mankind.

:::goes back to playing DOOM:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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[CTRL] Guns At Columbine Bought At Gun Show

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Fellow Lollards:

The article below proves yet *another* of my "predictions"
to have come true.  You gotta love that Hegelian dialect.

For The Record:

In a message dated 99-04-26 03:29:48 EDT, TSADOWQ wrOte:
 The next stage of the plan, is to tie-in the guns used at the
 High School shooting with the Gun Shows.  BRADY II was
 ineffective in closing gun shows across the U.S., but when
 they claim that the guns used at Columbine were bought
 FROM one of "those unneccessary gun shows" (and they
 will), you can kiss buying guns for cash good-bye. 

Againhate to say "told you so".

Subj:   Klebold Friend May Have Bought Guns
Date:   99-04-27 08:13:50 EDT
From:   AOL News

Klebold Friend May Have Bought Guns

.c The Associated Press

 By STEVEN K. PAULSON

LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) -- The 18-year-old girlfriend of Columbine High School
gunman Dylan Klebold apparently bought at least two of the weapons used in
the attack at a Denver-area gun show, authorities said.

Investigators also were checking a report from a Colorado Springs gun dealer
that the other gunman, Eric Harris, was among five teens who tried to buy a
machine gun and another weapon last month.

The Denver Rocky Mountain News and The Denver Post reported today that
investigators believe the girlfriend, Robyn K. Anderson, bought three weapons
not long after her 18th birthday in November. The Denver Rocky Mountain News
said she was believed to have bought two guns.

Harris, 18, and Klebold, 17, committed suicide after bursting into Columbine
High School with guns and bombs a week ago today, killing 12 fellow students
and one teacher. Four guns were found in the school.

Ms. Anderson was questioned Monday and authorities describe her as a witness,
not a suspect. District Attorney Dave Thomas said she was cooperating with
investigators.

Prosecutors said the weapons may have been purchased legally.

``We think three of them were provided by the girlfriend of Klebold,'' Mark
Paulter, a Jefferson County chief district attorney, told the Post. ``She
bought them because she was older. She was 18 at the time. She bought them in
November or December.

``We're not sure she committed a crime under Colorado statute. If you provide
a handgun to a person under 18, that's a violation of the statute. If you
provide a shotgun or a rifle, that's not a violation.''

The operator of the Tanner Gun Show, which holds shows in the Denver area
several times a year, said the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
asked on Monday for a list of all of the show's exhibitors.

Prosecutors think Ms. Anderson bought two shotguns and a rifle. District
Attorney Dave Thomas said prosecutors are not sure what knowledge she had
about how the guns would be used. But Jefferson County Sheriff John Stone
acknowledged it was possible that she did know how Klebold and Harris to
planned to use the guns.

``She's not going to use those for pheasant hunting,'' Stone told the News.

A man who was at Ms. Anderson home declined to comment, saying the family was
terrorized by reporters, the Post said.

Meanwhile, Mel Bernstein, owner of Dragon Arms, told investigators that four
teen-age boys dressed in trench coats -- including Harris -- and a young
woman came to his store in early March. They tried to buy an M-60 machine gun
and a pistol equipped with a silencer. He said he declined to sell the guns
to Harris because he was too young. When the young woman in the group tried
to buy the guns, saying she was 18, he escorted them from the store.

Bernstein said the incident was captured on a surveillance videotape that he
turned over to federal authorities.

``They were real mopey, like punk kids with the makeup on, like punk
rockers,'' Bernstein said. ``To me, it was just another bunch of kids who
wished they could own everything they see on the wall here. This is like Toys
R Us to them.''

Bernstein said Harris ``was doing all the talking.''

Investigators still believe that someone other than Klebold and Harris was
aware of their plans in the days and weeks leading up to the attack.

``There's a lot of munitions there,'' Stone said. ``Either somebody else
brought it in or they brought it in and stored it. ... It's hard to get that
in under your raincoat and not be noticed.''

Stone said three boys who were arrested near Columbine on the day of the
attack have not been cleared in the case.

``I'm suspicious of their story,'' Stone said. ``They are not out of the
woods in this one yet.''

Also Monday, authorities said Klebold and Harris had aimed for an even bigger
bloodbath, plotting to kill hundreds of students, and then to hijack a plane
and crash it into New York City. Investigators cited a diary they found that
was kept by Harris.

The attack's bold, bizarre nature led to speculation that the gunmen might
have been taking drugs, but toxicology tests revealed no drugs or alcohol in
their bodies, the county coroner's office said

[CTRL] sn0owls questions

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

:::walks in still muttering:::

sno0wl's questions:

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
Do people such as yourself in the Denver area believe the police
are "covering up" something in relation to the Columbine event--aside
from their own incompetence?

Well, I can say that people who are awake can see the
manipulation; but will certainly not say it loud enough
to be recorded.


Let's put it this way, no one behind the (or in front of) cameras dares
to whisper WHY the police would be involved in covering up the WHO.

Needless to say, local radio is DEFINATELY buzzing with
PUBLIC opinions which reflect my own, but talk-show hosts
succeed in slapping down such "rhetoric, "claiming it to be
uncaring toward the emotional condition of families left behind.

To people on this list who might feel the same, we might
remind you to go back and read the posts this writer wrote
on this subject (and it's manipulation), and see how many
of the statements made have *already* come to pass.

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
Do the people believe the police really are/were incompetent
or do they think other factors were involved?

The comment above applies here as well.  As far
as police competence, let's address that below.

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
How are local people explaining the
"reticence" of the police to act?

Here is where the art learned at Oklahoma is being
used.  They know that the loved ones of the victims
are in shock, and can be manipulated into rememb-
ering later. By that point in time, there will already
be layers of the onion

This is exactly why people like myself have began-- from the beginning,
to make sure that the facts remains straight; And while some might call
a conspiratorial view of the event itself (or the Hegelian result)-- "unrea-
sonable in the light of the deaths of children", I know from experience
that as the shock of the shooting wears off, there will be people, some
of whom initially ridiculed the effort, who may prosper at that time from it.

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
Why have we not heard anything on this list about the shooters'
parents. On one list where the father was heard in an interview the
poster described the father as "belligerent" in defending his son.

There is practically a (local) news blackout on this subject.  Likely,
this lack of coverage comes from the media's lack of desire toward
being blamed for pouring salt on the open wounds left behind by
the originals.

It is rumoured that the threat of another attack on 4-26,
was to cause a sigh of relief, so that the actual attack
could occur virtually unmitigated on the 28th.  JeffCO
schools report an overall drop in attendance by 50%,
while Littleton reports 30%.

We are holding our breath here today.

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
Who are these folks and what are they "into"?

Excluding an exceptionally brief story on one of the assailant's
funerals, there is very little information.  Currently news mediums
are dedicated to telling personal stories, and selling propoganda
toward "how WELL" the police did.

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
Apart from this, it's one thing to disagree with revcoal and/or her
methods of posting and "debating," but quite another to attribute
what you perceive as her shortcomings to her being a "housewife."

The "housewife" comment was an intentional, and purposeful burr
placed under the saddle of a feminist donkey. C'mon, who bothers
to learn, let alone *continually* USE the word "misogny"?

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:29:24 EDT, sno0wl write:
Such sexism is highly offensive to all those of us who do wash
dishes, make beds, cook, clean, and even vaccuum, whether we
have "hubbies" to report to or not.

SexismHmmm.

Rather than believe you are being hypocritical here-- willingly
tolerating the subtle (but solid) undertones of a feminist agenda
and NOT considering it sexist; I will guess that you have simply
and somehow overlooked it by accident.

Housewives who are secure in their role were not offended by
my comment; in fact, I know several housewives who read my
comments, and were not offended in the least.

The only thing that I can apologize for, is the apparent
degradation of housewives--by including Revcoal within
their ranks--even if it was *only* for the purpose of jolting
the femi-nazi agenda.

:::walks out, mumbling something:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects

[CTRL] The Housewife Conspiracy

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:45:44 EDT, Mrs. Don Allen writes:
 What possible difference could it make that June is a "housewife" ?

LOL.  "June the housewife."  hehehehehe.

In a message dated 99-04-27 18:45:44 EDT, Mrs. Don Allen writes:
Are the opinions of "housewives" any less important than yours? 

Opinions are not facts.

Several of my predictions toward the manipulation of this
shooting have already come to pass. That is the fact.

:::Turns off computer - plugs in Stepford Wives:::
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] The FACTS are still the FACTS.

[Tsadowq]

 the guns used at the
High School shooting with the Gun Shows.  BRADY II was
ineffective in closing gun shows across the U.S., but when
they claim that the guns used at Columbine were bought
FROM one of "those unneccessary gun shows" (and they
will), you can kiss buying guns for cash good-bye.

Revcoal, it is more than clear that the only factor which remains
consistent within your statements, is both their lack of congruity
towards, and denial of, those stubborn little things called FACTS.

I would hope that you might, at some point in time, realize that
you need to understand that, ANY form of manipulation by these
vipers should be called exactly what it is.  Siding with them, and
calling them "professional" when they dodge questions and begin
to spin their web of lies, does not help any of us.

Still muttering,
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] It's about children, not brownie points.

[Tsadowq]

seeing that rather than putting down her pride and admitting
that there are facts that should have been stated by Davis'

facts which could possibly affect
   the lives of more innocent children.

I will go out of my way to delete ALL future posts from REVCOAL;
as her posts prove themselves to be useless and self-centered
drivelous aberrations by someone who should be cleaning the
bathroom or making beds before hubby gets home.

We can at least hope that REVCOAL has the decency of
removing her future attack on me to an off-list mailing, so
that I may delete it without bothering the rest of the people
on CTRL's list.

Still muttering,
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Colorado's heroes

[Tsadowq]

t up a good portion of the perimeter devices that police CLAIM
had prevented them from entering the building *in the first place*.

As the police have now found over thirty bombs, (including one that
was just found TODAY), there is a growing number of public and
private peoples who are now pondering the existence of "others"
who might have been involved in this shooting.

WHO KILLED WHO ???

We should remember that one of the assailants suffered a shot-
gun blast to the chest, as well as being shot once in the head.

Besides Bo Gritz (lol), how many people do we know that can shoot
themselves at point blank range in the chest, (especially with a shot-
gun), and then shoot one more round into their own head?

It is still extremely possible that there were other assailants, and
maybe one of these that got away was Agent Provocateur-- who
is responsible for the shotgun wound to suspect number one.

Maybe Agent Provocateur, having completed
the mission, shot BOTH of the Trenchcoats.

No matter HOW it turns out, at least *SOMEONE* inside shot
the assailants, as it is more than clear that the police outside
had absolutely no intention of entering the school-- at least
until they had heard no more of that scary sounding gunfire.

If the "powers that be" did in fact manipulate this event, how pathetic
it is, that these pusillanimous police were counted upon to act with
the frailty and cowardess that they have shown.

By the way, I must apologize, and retract something previously said.

I really shouldn't talk about radio personality Jay Marvin and
use words such as "sloth-like clown" or "neanderthal"

It was an insult to sloths, clowns, and neanderthal man alike.

Still muttering,
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] The Manchurian Trenchcoat Mafia ?

[Tsadowq]

help/make everyone remember
that it was only two suspects and NOT three.

FINAL RECIPE NOTE: When adding Agent Provocateur is not plausible,
  just let ingredients (1) and (2) stew over
countless
  computer games and video rentals which
condition
  the mind that there is a soft and amusing
side to
  gun violence.

Finally, if we are to even give a moments notice to any conspiracy
theory on this shooting, we must ask ourselves the MOTIVES
behind those who allowed the shooting to occur.

 1) The Concealed-Carry Legislation.  There is far more to this picture
 than meets the eye.  Here in Denver, we knew that this legislation
 had a VERY good chance.  Even though the nationals have made
 note of the Concealed-Carry Legislation, what most people do not
 know is that within this legislation, were paragraphs which
effective-
 ly repealed the Denver ban on assault rifles.

 2) The Concealed-Carry Legislation, if passed, was WELL-KNOWN to
 already be in the works in several other states--with Colorado's new
 legislation setting a VERY UNWANTED precedent and goal.

 3) One of the big whining points of the anti-gun constituency, is that
 Colorado is a big "sport" state, and we don't want people with guns
 at sporting events.  Afterall, they might get mad.  Now, immediately
 after the Columbine shooting, ALL sporting events were cancelled.

 In Denver, as you watch the newscast, other headlines scroll across
 the bottom of the screen in print.  Now, rather than these headlines
 reading, "Out of respect for the children at Columbine, sporting
events
 have been cancelled", the headlines read, "Due to the gun violence,
 all sporting events have been cancelled."  There is a profound
differ-
 ence.  In the minds of the mindless, they equated GUNS with their

 OWN DEPRAVATION of SPORTS.   Point served.

 3) The National Rifle Association's annual convention, slated for
 Denver in weeks, was effectively cancelled.  I sincerely believe
 that the powers that be, saw momentum building which did not
 serve their purposes at all.

 4) Our new Governor Bill Owens, who effectively slapped some of
 the N.W.O. crowd in the face as he stopped the sale of Colorado
 Driver's License pictures for profit, has been sent a clear message
 regarding his unwillingness to play ball.  Keep in mind, that Owens
 has voiced exceptionally clear pro-gun and pro-life opinions.

 5) Our old (and despicable) Mayor Webb, turned the emotion of
 tonights Civic Center prayer vigil into an anti-gun ralley.

 6) Janet Reno landed in Denver, at DIA tonight sometime after 6:30 p.m.

 7) Colorado awarded 1 million dollars in state aid.

As the 2nd Amendment continues to suffer in the balance, and with the
current above manipulations already in a mode of success, it should not
suprise us that "art" and "music" are already being targeted *as well*.

Why NOT...?  Afterall, the first seven parts of the agenda against the
2nd Amendment SAILED past the mindless masses within 72 hours
of the initial SPIN.  If they are that stupid, WHY NOT begin condition-
ing the sheople against their 1st Amendment as well?

Emotion makes EXCELLENT LAW.  ---written by the same guy who said:
"Work makes
you FREE"

CONCLUSION

Whether the Trenchcoat Mafia were Manchurian Candidates or not,
it is certain that their actions have been, and will continue to be ex-
ploited by those who desire to disarm the American public.

More than disgusting, are those bullet-proof vested ninnies who are
PAYED to "protect and serve", that stood outside where it was
safe while children were trapped inside still being shot at; who
for nearly six (6) hours stayed outside while children layed inside
bleeding to death.

It is also obvious that there were plenty of signs on the wall, and
considering that even the janitor was suspicious of "something
big happening", we are forced to speculate why this event was
allowed to take place.

In a world where ulterior motives lurk behind every corner,
I am never quite sure of where anyone stands

Except tonight, as I know that the girl who stood up and
proclaimed Jesus Christ to the barrel of a gun, stands at
the Right hand of my Father.  I hope to see her there.

In Hope and Love.
Keep the Faith, brethren.
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and 

[CTRL] Regulation of the E.O.'s

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Preceding thread: Re: [CTRL] Can any verify this?

Fellow Lollards,

In a message dated 99-04-18 08:10:17 EDT, Foxter2000 wrote:
 This cite to AmJur concerns laws not EO's.
 It has nothing to do with EO's.
 Only Congress can make laws.
 Only the President can make EO's.

This lollard, concurs with the lollard above.

The law that now governs the President's emergency powers is now
regulated under the National Emergencies Act (Order No. 95-753 ).

Still muttering,
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Can any verify this?

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Fellow Lollards:

In a message dated 99-04-15 13:02:08 EDT, you write:
 "Executive Orders are for selling and purchasing of land.  And nothing
else, in fact there is NO Constitutional Amendment to create an EO.  And
until there is these EOs are NULL  VOID!!!" 

There is much to say here, but I hope to begin by contributing a
post that I wrote to another online group.  My following comments
spawned from another group member's opinions on the Constitution.

Knowing that the mention of the "Learned Elder's" Protocols will
receive the harangue of some within this list, I have still decided
to forward CTRL my post-- as I know that I have researched and
validated the information contained therein to my own satisfaction.

There is no Constitution.  It has been suspended for some 66 years.

Still muttering,
Tsadowq

xx

As far as Constitutional Mythology, the only real myth is that
the Constitution is even in use today.  The fact of the matter
is that this country has been kept in a "state of emergency"
for the last 66 years.

  "Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been
in a state of Declared National Emergence."

-Senate Report 93-549 (1973)

The War Powers granted to Roosevelt in 1933, were not unlike
those given to Hitler under Article 48.  Many of us are already
aware of the fact that it is the War Powers which empower
the President to continue doing the round-about with the
remaining two "balances of power".  This is as well,  what
keeps the Presidents from rescinding the state of emergency.

We should sincerely ask why any President would voluntarily abdicate
the authority and broad sweeping power that now lies in his hands-- by
means of keeping America in a continued state of emergency-- which
perpetuates the continuation of the War Powers themselves.

When reading below, keep in mind that it is through these same War
Powers that the Executive Orders are signed.  Secondly, when reading
the Senate Report below, it is clearly established why Presidents--while
not given authority to declare war without Congress by the Constitution--
have continually gotten away with "assigning military forces abroad"

  "A majority of the people in the United States have lived all their
   lives under emergency rule.  For 40 years, freedoms and govern-
   mental procedures guaranteed by the constitution have, in varying
   degrees, been abridged by laws brought into force by states of
   National emergency. In the United States, actions taken by govern-
   ment in times of great crisis have... in important ways shaped the
   present phenomenon of a permanent state of National emergency".

  "These proclamations give force to 470 provisions of federal law.  These
hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers,
ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of Ameri-
can citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners.  This vast range
of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule this country
without reference to normal constitutional process."

  "Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may:
   seize property, organize and control the means of production; seize
   commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law;
   seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate
   the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora
   of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens."

   cont'd -- Senate Report 93-549 (1973)

That sure looks familiar...Where have we read that before?

  "Independently of this we shall invest the president
   with the right of declaring a state of war."

 -- Protocols of the Learned Elders of Sion
PROTOCOL 10.13

Of course, if Americans *knew* that they weren't actually "free", they would
not keep on snatching up brand new $150.00 VCRs manufactured from MFN
China's sweat shops.  If Americans were to actually see through their pseudo
freedom, then the flow of revenue from Mystery Babylon's cash cow (America)
would no longer provide liquidity to fund Communism (read:International
Fabian
Socialism) all over the world.

What will truly suprise the capitalistic Mystery School Adepts, is when
the Communist beast which was once a tool in their Megolomaniac belt,
wrenches itself free from their unseen hand of history, and rises up to
destroy the Great Whore which has been riding on it's/their back.

The Constitution was NEVER intended to insure the freedom of men; nor
was it designed to keep a free Republic.  Anyone who has truly studied
the completely ambiguous language of the Constitution itself, knows that
the document

Re: [CTRL] MindControl at NSA

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

Fellow Lollards,

I am unsure as to why this person did not post the information in it's
entirety;
in so doing--and no matter how consuming or technically accurate, the data
winds up appearing only to be that which might lay the groundwork for a
second rate Sci-Fi conspiracy novel.

(Since 2nd rate Sci-Fi writer Whitley Strieber has already found a niche with
his target audience and his "aliens", maybe there is some *other* lousy writer
out there who desires to profiteer by exploiting this X-File opportunity).

lol

Anyway, the case in question is a matter of public record.

This is not an online rumor perpetuated by people who
twitch and keep their coffee beans under lock and key.


The actual case was/is:John St. Clair Akwei
vs
National Security Agency
Ft. George G. Meade, MD, USA
(Civil Action 92-0449)


Still muttering,
Tsadowq

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] The Incident

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

A HREF="http://www.the-void.dk/incident/intro.html"
The Incident/A
http://www.the-void.dk/incident/intro.html

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Heinz Vinegar Hints

[Tsadowq]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 99-02-05 19:43:45 EST, you write:
 Turn a chicken bone into rubber. Soak a chicken bone in a
glass of Heinz Vinegar for three days.  It will bend like rubber. 

Somebody has too much time on their hands...

Or maybe this has something to do with that Vinegar Colonic
for Chickens Conspiracy that I keep hearing so much about.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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