Re: OOo extras

[Andrea Pescetti]

Pedro Giffuni wrote:

On 09/03/16 11:07, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

Someone with access, please upload the Python-2.7.12 tar ball for extra
safety.

And while there, the dejavu fonts version 2.37 may be a good idea too.


Both uploaded. But you should join the OOoExtras admins too. If you have 
a Sourceforge account, please let us/me know it so that you can become 
an admin too. We are already 6 admins but we have room for more.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
[ ... ]
> > I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
> > "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
> > developers, especially C++ programmers."
> >
> > I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
> > complicate that message.
> >
> > I would like a special mailing list recruitm...@openoffice.apache.org,
> > just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
> > start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
> > an e-mail to recruitment@
> [orcmid]
> 
> We can, of course, add a mailing list.  That does mean we need
> moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
> what to do with the offers.
> 
> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on
> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places.  We can
> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
> assistance on Apache OpenOffice.  The benefit is that (1) these can be
> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places
> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item
> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
> 
> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
> 
> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will
> dig into that too.
[orcmid] 

I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page.  It 
does not fit will with that.

I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own.

It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can 
be lengthy.

I am going to stop looking into that for now.

> 
>  - Dennis


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Re: OOo extras

[Pedro Giffuni]

On 09/03/16 11:07, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

Hello;

FWIW, the apache-extras.org site that carried the OOo extras tarballs
has been redirected to the sourceforge site. The oooextras.mirror site
at sourceforge has a circular reference to the OOO Extras Web Site that
is now redundant.

Someone with access, please upload the Python-2.7.12 tar ball for extra
safety.



And while there, the dejavu fonts version 2.37 may be a good idea too.

:)

Pedro.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

Hi Jim,

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
> configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits...

For epm you have two options:

- use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball

- build you own epm based on that very same version and
  with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm


These are my configure options:

./configure \
--with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \
--enable-verbose \
--enable-crashdump=yes  \
--enable-wiki-publisher  \
--with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2
 \
--with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \
--enable-category-b \
--enable-bundled-dictionaries \
--with-package-format="installed dmg" \
--with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home 
\
--with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \
--with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \
--disable-systray \
--without-junit

My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew,
thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in
order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even
update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl,
that comes with everything out of the box.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
configure to live in /Developer/ Also some other nits...

Taking notes and will send patches in.
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
>> 
>> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
> 
> I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to
> apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1714089
> because 10.11 isn't detected, but see
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099
> 
> @Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report?
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Keith N. McKenna]

Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
> 
I have added a note to the page stating that it is deprecated along with
a link to the newer page.

Regards
Keith

> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>>
>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> According to 
>>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
>>>  o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
>>>  o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
>>>  o OSX 10.4 SDK
>>
>> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache 
>> OpenOffice 4.0"?
>>
>> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>>
>> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
>>
>>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
>>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
>>
>> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and 
>> moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer 
>> applies now.
>>
>>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
>>> w/ Xcode 7?
>>
>> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday 
>> is this one:
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
>> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) 
>> that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but 
>> not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of 
>> XCode, for that matter).
>>
>> Regards,
>>  Andrea.
>>
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>>




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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
> 
> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?

I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to
apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1714089
because 10.11 isn't detected, but see
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099

@Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report?



Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile


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Re: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hi Andrea;


Pedro Giffuni wrote:

I had already submitted a talk for this year's ApacheConEU


Ah, nice! An OpenOffice-specific talk or a generic one? I mean, would it
fit into a (hypothetical, of course; everything depends on reviewers)
OpenOffice track or not?



It is about random number generation, based on the OpenOffice 
implementation (and I may find time for some further improvements

in the following weeks).

I think I may give another one on a different subject as well, but this 
one would be unrelated to AOO.


Pedro.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.

So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> According to 
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
>>  o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
>>  o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
>>  o OSX 10.4 SDK
> 
> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache 
> OpenOffice 4.0"?
> 
> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
> 
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
> 
> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
> 
>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
> 
> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and 
> moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer 
> applies now.
> 
>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
>> w/ Xcode 7?
> 
> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday 
> is this one:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) 
> that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but 
> not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of XCode, 
> for that matter).
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Let me check.

FWIW, I have now a 10.7 guest running on my MacPro via VMware Fusion.
I am the legal licensee of that version as well.

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> It works on VMware VHosts too.
> 
> Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that 
> could help grant a special license from Apple?
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
>> allows for it. And it works.
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>>> another
>>> OS do they?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>> 
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
 
 I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
 found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
 building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
 of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
 more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
 
 For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
 ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
 upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
 
 The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
 development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
 more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
 
 
 
 
> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> 
> Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
> hardware
> is PC based, running Linux.
> 
> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
> 
> http://www.macincloud.com/
> 
> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
> 
> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> 
>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>> 
>> On your own hardware:
>> 
>> Repeat:
>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>> Fix the error messages you get;
>> Write notes about what you did;
>> Test the program functionality;
>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>> 
>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>> 
>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> 
>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>> 
>> jonathon
>> 
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Re: We believe in OpenOffice. We want to help.

[Jim Jagielski]

Super super news! Thx!!
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:49 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> hard times for OpenOffice, but no unsolvable problems if we stand together.
> 
> We, the team to the ProOO-Box (www.prooo-box.org), want the whole community 
> to assure that we will support a new release of AOO (4.1.3 or 4.2.0) with 
> particular intensity by our public relations in Germany.
> 
> Please let us know how we can provide additional direct support AOO currently.
> We are not a developers, but we might as help writing press releases to 
> create websites or translate, or similar things.
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings
> Detlef, Jan and Jörg
> 
> http://www.prooo-box.org
> 
> 
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Please be aware that the board does not "stick its nose" into the
daily operations of a project. The current status of AOO came to
the boards attention via the required PMC reports as well as
other communications. It was only because of that that the board
got involved.


> On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:57 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
> 
> Then you should give the project every encouragement to get the build process 
> properly prepared.
> 
> Our outgoing PMC chair should consider the same.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Marvin Humphrey  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2016-09-02 09:43 (-0700), Pedro Giffuni  wrote: 
>>> 
>>> At this time I am unsure what the Board wants from the project.
>> 
>> My primary concern as a Board member is that the project respond promptly and
>> effectively to security reports.
>> 
>> Marvin Humphrey
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: Resigning from Apache OpenOffice

[Jim Jagielski]

Thus makes me very, very sad. I hope that my comments are not
a factor here. As anyone who had been following the hacker-news
and LWN thread know, I am a supporter of AOO; I have been one
since the start despite the slings and arrows directed towards
me in being such.

There was no intent to malign the people doing fantastic work
on AOO, nor their enthusiasm, etc... The thread started was
simply a request for discussion about what a retirement would
look like; I relayed my thoughts as such. No more, no less.

Personally, I'd like you to reconsider.

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:43 AM, Kay Schenk  wrote:
> 
> I'm resigning from Apache OpenOffice. I've been an unpaid volunteer with 
> OpenOffice.org and Apache OpenOffice since April, 2001.  At this point, I'm 
> thinking it's time to move on. 
> 
> A big THANK YOU to all the developers that made OpenOffice the outstanding 
> open source product it is today.  THANK YOU to all the community members who 
> contributed tirelessly to the  ancillary  functions of both these projects. 
> And finally, special thanks to the infrastructure team at the Apache Software 
> Foundation for the remarkable job they did for Apache OpenOffice and continue 
> to do.
> 
> Best wishes to all of you, and may the road ahead for OpenOffice be smooth.
> 
> I'm assuming that my karma to the following areas will be removed later 
> today: committer rights to the source svn repository; rights to the PMC and 
> security lists and repositories.
> 
> -- 
> --
> Kay Schenk
> Apache OpenOffice 
> 
> "Things work out best for those who make 
>  the best of the way things work out." 
>-- John Wooden


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Re: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Roberto Galoppini]

On Sep 3, 2016 7:46 PM, "Andrea Pescetti"  wrote:
>
> Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>>
>> I had already submitted a talk for this year's ApacheConEU
>
>
> Ah, nice! An OpenOffice-specific talk or a generic one? I mean, would it
fit into a (hypothetical, of course; everything depends on reviewers)
OpenOffice track or not?

If a bunch of us is willing to go I might join the party.

Roberto

> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>
>
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Re: Merge with LibreOffice?

[Xen]

Hagar Delest schreef op 03-09-2016 19:04:

Le 03/09/2016 à 18:47, Xen a écrit :
OpenOffice is unusable on Linux, you can't easily install it and once 
installed you don't know how to fire it up; it is not in the path, it 
is not in the menus, and you have to provide this on your own, if it 
even works.

Not at all. I use xubuntu since several years and it's rather easy to
get rid of the remnants of LibO automatically installed and then
install from the deb packages.
The desktop integration works very fine.


Well having to remove LO is one issue to begin with.

That means they have you locked out to begin with (mostly because 
/usr/bin/soffice conflicts).


Desktop integration used to fail for me some time in the past (in KDE) 
now it works, sorry, did not know that. Previously (not long ago) I 
installed the desktop integration package and could not see it in the 
menu, even after having uninstalled LO.



Mark Shuttleworth once said on an interview how to his opinion the 
LibreOffice devs (that would then split off) made the Oracle 
employees' lives hell. Even though Ubuntu has taken on LibreOffice 
after a while, he was no fan at all of what happened.

I still don't unnderstand what happened there and why he did not
support AOO instead. I may have missed some political argument at the
time of the split.


Perhaps it was not his own call, I don't know. He may have done so for 
political reasons (if it was him doing so) that relate to LO having had 
already a bigger foothold and it was easier or more politically correct 
from a FOSS point of view to go with LO.


I doubt many technical issues were at the core of the choice (but I 
wasn't there either).


It seems it must have been pressure from the "FOSS" community in that 
sense. Ubuntu I believe regularly packages older versions of programs 
and then just supplies patches to them (with them) for its own distro. 
E.g. Grub2, the version Ubuntu uses is from januari of 2014 or a little 
earlier. A present day Ubuntu 16.04 version uses a grub version that old 
;-).


But I don't know, I just content myself with knowing that Ubuntu's 
choice does not bely Shuttleworth's opinions, but Shuttleworth's 
opinions may bely Canonical's choice.


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jim Jagielski wrote:

According to 
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
  o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
  o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
  o OSX 10.4 SDK


Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache 
OpenOffice 4.0"?


You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX

and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.


From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.


The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC 
(and moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no 
longer applies now.



The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
w/ Xcode 7?


The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy 
yesterday is this one:

http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log 
files) that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the 
latest, but not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any 
version of XCode, for that matter).


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Andrea Pescetti]

Pedro Giffuni wrote:

I had already submitted a talk for this year's ApacheConEU


Ah, nice! An OpenOffice-specific talk or a generic one? I mean, would it 
fit into a (hypothetical, of course; everything depends on reviewers) 
OpenOffice track or not?


Regards,
  Andrea.

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What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Xen]

Phillip Rhodes wrote:

OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about 
what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want 
this

project to
continue moving forward.


What has to happen next?  What is the most important thing/things we 
could

be
working on?  What could I do *right now* to help move things in a 
positive

direction?



How can we attract more developers?  How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
 etc...



Phil




I just want to give you my impression.

For what OpenOffice needs to begin with.

1) rename it to ApacheOffice
2) keep the intellecutal property (of the name) but release it after a 
while (maybe 10 years in full)
3) Focus on user interface beauty and essential features that don't work 
right, but should (no feature expansion, only feature improvement)

4) Disallow LibreOffice from taking in improvements and/or commits
5) Appear it as if you are starting a new product (call it a restart)
6) Change the binary names from soffice etc. (the star office remnant) 
to something more modern (such as openoffice or aoffice or 
apacheoffice).
7) Focus (again) on user interface improvements to make it 'compete' 
with e.g. Google Docs (or LO itself)
8) Disregard compatibility issues for a while but focus on only two 
things: compatibility with the most popular MS Office version to date 
(or currently) and compability with one office suite on Linux of choice 
(Calligra and LibreOffice/OpenOffice are not compatible) -- disregard 
all the rest.


9) Focus on introducing a form of interoperabolity with Google and 
Microsoft cloud (Google Drive and Microsoft OneDrive) that will make 
*their* (desktop) clients irrelevant in a way.


You cannot use Microsoft Office 365 from the web. You need a client for 
that. This is either Windows or Mac or Android or iPhone or whatever. If 
you can provide an alternate client you become something that can in the 
future expand to its own platform, even if it doesn't feel entirely 
right.


10) Ensure printing works perfectly, PDF writing works perfectly, and 
introduce a few more PDF features such as integrating PDF documents into 
an existing PDF, a little bit of editing. Become that tool. Suppose 
someone has printed 3 separate PDFs and now wants to combine them into 
one document. Enable that feature, provide that tool.


11) Again, make sure the interface is attractive (no black border around 
a page, use shadows).


12) Try to see if any kind of interoperability or co-working or shared 
goals with Mozilla "BlueGriffon" could exist. BlueGriffon is the only 
available HTML editor that is to my mind usable enough and also free, in 
that sense.


Some of these things may seem like you'd be begging for approval or 
becoming a lesser thing because you submit yourself to the platform of 
another person or entity.


But I'm just speaking out of a sense of what would be popular.

1) Having your program as a tool that can do stuff no other tools can 
(such as PDF combining, and subscribing/logging into Microsoft and 
Google cloud) instantly transforms it into something valuable to have 
around


2) If your interoperability with the Microsoft and/or Google formats is 
excellent (Google Docs can export to Microsoft) people will also want to 
have your tool around because they wouldn't be so dependent on the 
existing tools (and platforms)


3) This is particularly helpful for non-tablet users. People who still 
use desktops are often not served or serviced by existing developments 
on the tablet/android/iphone market.


LibreOffice can continue being that Linux desktop powerhouse for all it 
wants. Linux is not popular and hard to use no matter how much Ubuntu is 
trying to get that to change. People are not safe on Linux. I am not 
safe on Linux and I know almost everything.


I would suggest being a little sneaky and borrowing from the popularity 
of Microsoft and Google cloud platforms. Become a client and become 
compatible with either LibreOffice or Calligra in your native format. 
That means losing your identity as a separate, own thing. You become the 
glue that ties a lot of things together.


Personally I would suggest using Calligra but its program is rather poor 
in quality to this day.


Nevertheless it is all ODT and it is the small things that can render a 
document unusable (such as bulleting completely changing between saves).


So it would mean choosing either LibreOffice or Calligra as your source 
of what your own document format should be. So you lose your own sense 
of identity in being a leader in this area.


The moment OpenOffice becomes that tool that people can use to use 
Microsoft OneDrive or Google Docs, every linux distribution will want to 
have it on board.


If you change your binary executable names, no one will be offended by 
its install.


If there is a sense of interoperability between it and BlueGriffon, in 
terms of 

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

It works on VMware VHosts too.

Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that could 
help grant a special license from Apple?

Regards,
Dave

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
> allows for it. And it works.
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
>> 
>> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>> another
>> OS do they?
>> 
>> 
>> Phil
>> 
>> 
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>> 
>>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>> 
>>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
 
 Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
 hardware
 is PC based, running Linux.
 
 I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
 
 http://www.macincloud.com/
 
 Anybody have any experience with something like that?
 
 
 Phil
 
 
 This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
 
 On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
 
 On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> 
> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
> 
> On your own hardware:
> 
> Repeat:
>  Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>  Fix the error messages you get;
>  Write notes about what you did;
>  Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
> 
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
> 
> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
> 
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
> 
> jonathon
> 
> -
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> 
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Re: The AOO build system

[Jim Jagielski]

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
> 
> 3. Regarding Mac in particular, I'll repeat this question from an earlier
> thread:  Does the ASF have Mac hardware for doing Mac builds, or are we
> dependent solely on developer machines for that?
> 

Is there anyone following up w/ Infra about this??
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

According to 
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX

 o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
 o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
 o OSX 10.4 SDK

From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.

The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
w/ Xcode 7? I have a copy of the SDK and use the attached script
to fold older SDKs in, but starting w/ Xcode7, it doesn't like it.

S if, in fact, someone was able to *build* AOO on a recent (10.10
or 10.11) version of OSX and Xcode7, documenting that stuff on the
above wiki page would be very, very useful.


> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:10 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> 
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
>> checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
>> has such a beast laying around.
> 
> When did you check? And what does "extremely old" mean?
> 
> OpenOffice 4.1.2 was built with a version of XCode released 6 months earlier.
> 
> I trust you've looked at our reference environments, right? If you need the 
> link again just look at archives from the last 24 hours, I've posted it into 
> another conversation.
> 
> Regards,
>  Andrea.
> 
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Re: Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module

[Patricia Shanahan]

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 09:41, Ed Fallin  wrote:
> 
> Hi there Phillip and Patricia —
> 
> Thanks for your e-mails.  Is now the right time not to send to all?  I’m 
> happy to avoid that but, I don’t want to be a lurker.

I have requested creation of a recruitment mailing list. Once created it will 
be a home for new people to work together on getting started. Meanwhile, dev@ 
is a good place. 

> I have a Mac and I have two Windows boxes, I don’t know the details but if 
> people think it’s worth it, maybe I could install a Linux partition on one of 
> those.  I use Visual Studio, now 2015 edition, and I’ve used Xcode with Obj-C 
> and Swift a bit, but if there’s a free/ish version of another IDE you 
> recommend, I can install that.

There is an urgent need for building and testing on Mac. It is our second most 
popular user platform, after Windows.


> Re where I live, it’s Los Angeles, in Koreatown which is central, near 
> downtown.
> 
> I’ll start diving into “how to get started” on the site further, but any 
> brief look-here directions anyone is willing to offer will help, and if 
> anyone is willing to say they’ll provide (very brief) go-here help / a little 
> extra review for C++, that would be great.  I always work TDD or test-bound 
> as I call it ( == test before any first use ), but I could miss things. 
> 
> Otherwise I’ll try to work solely from the join-lists direction and other 
> advice on the site.
> 
> PS, Love this:  This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> Proceeding slowly but surely.
> — Ed Fallin
> 
> 


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Re: Merge with LibreOffice?

[Hagar Delest]

Le 03/09/2016 à 18:47, Xen a écrit :

OpenOffice is unusable on Linux, you can't easily install it and once installed 
you don't know how to fire it up; it is not in the path, it is not in the 
menus, and you have to provide this on your own, if it even works.

Not at all. I use xubuntu since several years and it's rather easy to get rid 
of the remnants of LibO automatically installed and then install from the deb 
packages.
The desktop integration works very fine.


Mark Shuttleworth once said on an interview how to his opinion the LibreOffice 
devs (that would then split off) made the Oracle employees' lives hell. Even 
though Ubuntu has taken on LibreOffice after a while, he was no fan at all of 
what happened.

I still don't unnderstand what happened there and why he did not support AOO 
instead. I may have missed some political argument at the time of the split.

Hagar

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jim Jagielski]

Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
allows for it. And it works.

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes  wrote:
> 
> That's unfortunate.  And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
> another
> OS do they?
> 
> 
> Phil
> 
> 
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
> 
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>> 
>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>> 
>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> 
>>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac.  I use one at work, but all of my personal
>>> hardware
>>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>> 
>>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>> 
>>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>> 
>>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
 
 What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
> 
 
 On your own hardware:
 
 Repeat:
   Build a Mac OS X Binary;
   Fix the error messages you get;
   Write notes about what you did;
   Test the program functionality;
 Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
 
 Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
 
 How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> 
 response to the "retirement" discussion?
 
 At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
 before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
 
 jonathon
 
 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
 
 
 
>>> 
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>> 
>> 


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Re: [DISCUSS] What Would OpenOffice Retirement Involve? (long)

[Dave Fisher]

I don't have very much free time, but once MacOSX build instructions are 
rewritten and the process clean. I am willing to validate the instructions and 
each step on a fresh Mac. This would also put me a position to cast a binding 
vote on a release when that is ready.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2016, at 3:42 PM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
> 
> Yes, still VERY valid!
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:37 PM, Dave Fisher  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jim,
>> 
>> I seem to recall that you made an offer to help with Mac builds. I know you 
>> helped during incubation. Is your offer still valid?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 6:59 AM, Jim Jagielski  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:48 AM, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
 
> Patricia, we are still discussing. We are balancing reasons, 
> advantages
> and disadvantages, for different solutions. There is no decision made.
> 
> And more and more I believe, it was a good idea to start that 
> discussion
> on a public list. So everything is transparent.
> 
> I like the debian Social Contract and point 3 is:
> 
> "We will not hide problems"
 
 This is a reasonable approach for a project which is surrounded by 
 friends. 
 
 It is not necessarily a good concept for a project that has been cleaved 
 by third
 parties and whose aim is to destroy it. When the TDF had only had the 
 intention to
 make OpenOffice independent of Oracle, they would never have attacked AOO.
>>> 
>>> sorry, but I can't agree with that.
>>> 
>>> Will self-serving trolls contort what we say here to promote their
>>> own agendas? Sure. What we want is the *truth* to be out there,
>>> so when these trolls spew their FUD, the reality of the situation
>>> is there for others to read, and understand, and grok.
>>> 
>>> At the very least, if what you say is true, we can claim the
>>> high-ground. We should strive for that no matter what.
>>> -
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>> 
>> 
>> -
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> 
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Re: Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module

[Ed Fallin]

Hi there Phillip and Patricia —

Thanks for your e-mails.  Is now the right time not to send to all?  I’m happy 
to avoid that but, I don’t want to be a lurker.

So, it’s interesting that some is C++ and some Java, and Yes I think the Java 
side will be easy to pick up, but I’ll aim to work on both.  My contributions 
may not be massive, but I will try to at least have a steadyish drip-drip-drip 
after ramp-up time.  Mixed metaphor.

I have a Mac and I have two Windows boxes, I don’t know the details but if 
people think it’s worth it, maybe I could install a Linux partition on one of 
those.  I use Visual Studio, now 2015 edition, and I’ve used Xcode with Obj-C 
and Swift a bit, but if there’s a free/ish version of another IDE you 
recommend, I can install that.

Re where I live, it’s Los Angeles, in Koreatown which is central, near downtown.

I’ll start diving into “how to get started” on the site further, but any brief 
look-here directions anyone is willing to offer will help, and if anyone is 
willing to say they’ll provide (very brief) go-here help / a little extra 
review for C++, that would be great.  I always work TDD or test-bound as I call 
it ( == test before any first use ), but I could miss things. 

Otherwise I’ll try to work solely from the join-lists direction and other 
advice on the site.

PS, Love this:  This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

Proceeding slowly but surely.
— Ed Fallin

Re: Merge with LibreOffice?

[Xen]

Christoph Reg wrote:


Regardless of why or how,
when it comes to development, it's clear that LO has won. Hands down.
LO gets more commits in one or two days than AOO had since the 
beginning of

the year.
Apparently, all devs have moved over and AOO development is dead.
Unless there is a lot of work happening not commited to the repo, which
would be weird.


From this language it appears as though you see this as a war which you 
have fought and apparently then won. The question then is: what have you 
achieved?


Apparently you want to be declared the victor and for the loser to hand 
over his/her assets.



OpenOffice still has a smoother name, as well as a good  
discoverability
with search engines, books and training materials, etc. Which is 
probably

why a lot of people still use and download it.


These are also words of one who has been fighting such a war. You name 
these things, albeit positive qualities, as detrimental aspects (to your 
cause, then)?.



What are your views on this?


Well my view is that LibreOffice is a group of people who have 
apparently stolen a code base and then refuse to give code back.


They apparently use restrictive licenses that act as a sink to which you 
can draw stuff but nothing ever comes out again.


Open source is often used in a way in which the software is free (by way 
of its license terms it cannot be made non-free) but the people and the 
projects themselves are not.


It's really the same with foreign trade. The trade is free (free trade) 
but the countries and the people are not.


In effect, it is just a different way of attaining ownership.

There are basically two "competing" business models:

1) You make the software very good and then you charge for the software
2) You make the software very poor and then you charge for support 
contracts.


When you do the former, you have no incentive to do so under (e.g.) GPL. 
Why? If you base your software on something else, that something else 
can take back your code (and development time) and integrate it into the 
project. Therefore you cannot monetize your development time (or 
software quality).


However if you don't sell software but rather knowledge (on how to use 
it) then seeing your (poor) code making its way back to the (upstream, 
likely) project, there is no problem. You now belong to the group of 
people with knowledge on how to use the thing, and this is an asset you 
can sell or monetize.


So even if something is "open source" and "free" that really means jack 
shit if you don't have any knowledge and conveniently many open source 
projects (including the Linux kernel) are very poorly documented. Try to 
look for documentation in Grub2: it's not there.


While commercial vendors close their software and their documentation 
they do so for very well established reasons: to make money.


But in effect these open source developers do the same when they want to 
maintain ownership over their software (and everyone does) and they do 
it in a different way, but they do the same thing.


They lock down their software by not giving you any information on how 
to use it, or how to develop for it.


It's human nature to want to control the software you make, and you 
cannot take away from that by being an open source or free software 
adherent.


That's my view about it.

A restrictive license ensures that knowledge becomes a golden quality 
that only few possess.


Now you know why much open source software is rather poor and rather 
poorly documented. It's because if it was not, /you would no longer need 
the developers/. No one wants to make themselves redundant, and by 
creating poor software they ensure that attention gets directed their 
way, which is just another way of saying that they keep getting paid in 
whatever form.


In open source (or free software) knowledge is the only asset since 
everything else is free.


And although they share their source, they do not share their knowledge, 
because it is that thing they use to make money (in whatever form).


Also we see that they do not want their source code to be accepted under 
a more permissive license because it implies that the development model 
changes. As soon as it becomes more permissive, someone might develop a 
commercial product based on it and make money in that way *and not have 
to contribute that code back to the more restrictive code base*.


So it is a conflict of business models, that's all I can say.

I will also say that LibreOffice and other projects "charge" for 
customer support by requiring your allegiance, submission, politeness, 
or obedience.


They want to be treated as gods and you as lowly worms.

Many times you will hear exclamations of how great their community is 
and how great and awesome their developers are. They do self-praise all 
the time.


The website then sells the product as a perfect thing that has no flaws.

But the stark reality that things are often missing, is then not allowed 
to get 

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Dave Fisher]

Thank you for the initiative.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan  wrote:
> 
>> On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote:
>> Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
>>> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
>> 
>> that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have
>> already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to
>> exchange one, then I would help.
> 
> It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best
> way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs
> developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible.
> 
> Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to
> settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time
> zones irrelevant.
> 
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OOo extras

[Pedro Giffuni]

Hello;

FWIW, the apache-extras.org site that carried the OOo extras tarballs 
has been redirected to the sourceforge site. The oooextras.mirror site 
at sourceforge has a circular reference to the OOO Extras Web Site that 
is now redundant.


Someone with access, please upload the Python-2.7.12 tar ball for extra 
safety.


Regards,

Pedro.


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Re: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Pedro Giffuni]

> Hello guys;
>
> Before "the dramatic events of the last hours" I had already submitted a
> talk for this year's ApacheConEU (Sevilla is such a nice city to have a
> conference!).
>
> I understand that AOO people may feel discouraged now to attend but I
> don't really believe any form of boycott will serve the purpose of
> strengthening OpenOffice within the Apache Software Foundation. The best
> way to show support for the project is to engage with the wider ASF
> community, meet member of the Board and tell them that Apache OpenOffice
> is important. What the heck ... if we can't convince them ... get them
> drunk ;).
>
> I hereby suggest, and it's the easiest way to "save" the project AFAICT,
> that we release Apache OpenOffice 4.2.0 *during* ApacheConEU 2016.
>
> Just IMHO, with the latest updates (thanks truckman for the help) I
> think we are in pretty good shape for a Release; we could start making
> Release Candidates really soon now and make it so that we release the
> new version on November 16. Maybe it's a tight schedule but I also think
> we have been adding a lot of red tape to the process of making a
> release, which in theory is just a vote.

According to ASF release approval policy,
http://www.apache.org/dev/release#approving-a-release, "Before voting +1
PMC members are required to download the signed source code package,
compile it as provided, and test the resulting executable on their own
platform, along with also verifying that the package meets the
requirements of the ASF policy on releases."

That takes a bit more effort than "just a vote".


The requirement is obvious. I am not a PMC member but I run the openoffice
development version in my desktop. I would expect someone in the PMC should
be doing the same.

We usually go beyond that for AOO, so the process takes months.



To some extent, it may conflict with ApacheConEU attendance, because
that will take PMC members away from their own platforms. Ideally, we
need to get the voting process done before those attending leave home.

Even though there is some publicity advantage to announcing at the
event, I would rather get the release out ASAP.


Well, before the event is fine, ASAP works for me as long as it is 
before the event(?).


Pedro.

RE: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

I am in the same position as Patricia and will not be traveling to European 
conferences.

> -Original Message-
> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:p...@acm.org]
> Sent: Saturday, September 3, 2016 04:21
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November
> 
> 
> On 9/3/2016 2:55 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> ...
> > The latter option (not going) of course does not require anything, but
> > I'd still prefer to get an "I'm not coming" note especially from
> > Europe-based PMC members.
> ...
> 
> I would prefer to see at least one PMC member attend, and give a talk.
> If a group can do so, all the better.
> 
> I do not personally plan to attend, because of the time and energy it
> would take to get there, and back, from the west coast of the USA.
> 
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Re: Office Writer Spell Check...

[Keith N. McKenna]

Robert wrote:
> The Spell Check option “Ignore All” doesn’t work. 
> 
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> 
> 
Robert;
You do not give us a lot to diagnose your problem with. If you are
expecting it to ignore all spelling errors that is not the way it is
designed to work. Ignore all and replace all work only on the
highlighted misspelling. For instance if the word kat is highlighted it
will suggest cat and ignore all will ignore all occurrences of kat in
the document.
If this does not assist in you case please reply to the list with more
information that describes the issue you are having.

As a courtesy I have cc'd your e-mail address as you are not subscribed
to the list. Please reply only to the list and not to me personally.

Regards
Keith



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Re: Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Patricia Shanahan]

On 9/3/2016 7:10 AM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

Hello guys;

Before "the dramatic events of the last hours" I had already submitted a
talk for this year's ApacheConEU (Sevilla is such a nice city to have a
conference!).

I understand that AOO people may feel discouraged now to attend but I
don't really believe any form of boycott will serve the purpose of
strengthening OpenOffice within the Apache Software Foundation. The best
way to show support for the project is to engage with the wider ASF
community, meet member of the Board and tell them that Apache OpenOffice
is important. What the heck ... if we can't convince them ... get them
drunk ;).

I hereby suggest, and it's the easiest way to "save" the project AFAICT,
that we release Apache OpenOffice 4.2.0 *during* ApacheConEU 2016.

Just IMHO, with the latest updates (thanks truckman for the help) I
think we are in pretty good shape for a Release; we could start making
Release Candidates really soon now and make it so that we release the
new version on November 16. Maybe it's a tight schedule but I also think
we have been adding a lot of red tape to the process of making a
release, which in theory is just a vote.


According to ASF release approval policy,
http://www.apache.org/dev/release#approving-a-release, "Before voting +1
PMC members are required to download the signed source code package,
compile it as provided, and test the resulting executable on their own
platform, along with also verifying that the package meets the
requirements of the ASF policy on releases."

That takes a bit more effort than "just a vote".

To some extent, it may conflict with ApacheConEU attendance, because
that will take PMC members away from their own platforms. Ideally, we
need to get the voting process done before those attending leave home.

Even though there is some publicity advantage to announcing at the
event, I would rather get the release out ASAP.

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Presence at ApacheCon Europe, November

[Andrea Pescetti]

I had planned to send an exploratory mail to see who was considering, or 
even just available, to attend ApacheCon in November. We can't pretend 
that nothing happened in the last 36 hours, so this reflects in the 
current mail, but the question (and the tight deadline) still holds.


ApacheCon Europe 
http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/apachecon-europe will be in 
Sevilla, southern Spain, 16-18 November; a separate Big Data event will 
take place in the days just before it. As usual, it is an ASF-wide event 
where many topics are not of direct interest to OpenOffice enthusiast, 
and vice versa; but it is also a rare and important occasion for the 
project members to meet in person and for meeting in person with the 
Infra team and the occasional Board members.


My experience is that every time I attended I found some value in it; 
just to make an example, sitting together with Infra helped solving 
immediately several structural issues that would have significantly 
delayed the 4.1.2 release last year.


For this year, I believe it makes sense to either go as a group or skip 
entirely (you can call it boycotting, but I prefer not to echo the tone 
of some recent messages to this list).


I would prefer the former option, which would imply:
- At least 4-5 active PMC members attend
- Each of them submits a talk next week (by 9 Sept)
- We schedule half a day of sessions focused, presumably, on what each 
of us has to say in preparation for a new release
- We skip all other sessions and spend the rest of time actually doing 
work together for OpenOffice and benefiting from having Infra and/or 
Board members around
- We have a fund for events that we can use to refund travel expenses of 
participants from all over the world; probably the time has come to spend it
- Note: this also assumes that sessions are actually accepted, otherwise 
we pay 275 USD each for admission but at that point we'd have to 
consider if this is worth it


The latter option (not going) of course does not require anything, but 
I'd still prefer to get an "I'm not coming" note especially from 
Europe-based PMC members.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Marcus]

Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:

Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.


that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have 
already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to 
exchange one, then I would help.


Marcus




On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote:

I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
the list of moderators.

Regards
Dave

 Original Message 
From: Patricia Shanahan 
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700

Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?

Alternative volunteer for moderator?

On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.

You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).


to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours,
visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.

Regards,
Andrea.


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We believe in OpenOffice. We want to help.

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello,

hard times for OpenOffice, but no unsolvable problems if we stand together.

We, the team to the ProOO-Box (www.prooo-box.org), want the whole community to 
assure that we will support a new release of AOO (4.1.3 or 4.2.0) with 
particular intensity by our public relations in Germany.

Please let us know how we can provide additional direct support AOO currently.
We are not a developers, but we might as help writing press releases to create 
websites or translate, or similar things.



Greetings
Detlef, Jan and Jörg

http://www.prooo-box.org


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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Patricia Shanahan]

Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that 
happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.


On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote:

I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
the list of moderators.

Regards
Dave

 Original Message  
From: Patricia Shanahan 
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700

Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?

Alternative volunteer for moderator?

On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Patricia Shanahan wrote:

If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?


Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.

You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).


to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.


I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.

Regards,
  Andrea.




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Re: Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module

[Patricia Shanahan]

Welcome aboard, Ed.

More comments interleaved.

On 9/2/2016 11:44 PM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:

Welcome to the project, Ed.  Don't sweat the lack of C++ experience.  Not
everything is in C++, and
you can pick up the C++ knowledge as you go.  I'm in a little bit of the
same boat, as I *was* a C++
programmer - about 15 years ago.   It's been quite a while for me, so I'm
going to have to basically
relearn C++ to get into AOO development.  But hey, it'll be a fun
experience in it's own right anyway!


Specifically, some of the code is in Java, which a C# programmer may 
pick up even quicker than C++.




As to the rest of your questions, I'll defer to other more experienced
members of the project to offer
their commentary.


Cheers,


Phil

This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:25 PM, Ed Fallin  wrote:


Hello there —

Having read an article in Ars about your difficulties keeping a large
group on the project, I’d like to join.  It looks like you have a C++ code
base, whereas my experience is primarily in C#.  I have touched on and read
upon C++ though.  My day job is a dev in a C# base, and I’m doing some of
my own stuff in that technology of an evening, primarily web-facing with an
emphasis on using abstraction and design to enhance feature sets with fewer
lines of code.  I’ve been programming professionally for about 5 years, I
follow the principles of clean code and TDD in my work.

I’m located in California, SoCal to be specific.


Where in SoCal? I live in El Cajon, east side of San Diego.



C# notwithstanding, if you’d value my joining your work, I’d like to do a
little bit here and there at first to get solid in C++, avoiding memory
leaks and so on (if those are still an issue — is there a GC now?), perhaps
with let’s say "enhanced review” from a tolerant mentor.  As time goes by I
could address bigger topics with minimal support.

Is this reasonable?  Helpful?


Very reasonable. Experience in any C-derived object-orientated language 
is likely to be helpful.


What systems do you have available for development? Windows? Mac? Linux? ...



Someone please let me know!

— Ed Fallin


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Re: Starting Introduction to Contributing to Apache OpenOffice Module

[Phillip Rhodes]

Welcome to the project, Ed.  Don't sweat the lack of C++ experience.  Not
everything is in C++, and
you can pick up the C++ knowledge as you go.  I'm in a little bit of the
same boat, as I *was* a C++
programmer - about 15 years ago.   It's been quite a while for me, so I'm
going to have to basically
relearn C++ to get into AOO development.  But hey, it'll be a fun
experience in it's own right anyway!

As to the rest of your questions, I'll defer to other more experienced
members of the project to offer
their commentary.


Cheers,


Phil

This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 10:25 PM, Ed Fallin  wrote:

> Hello there —
>
> Having read an article in Ars about your difficulties keeping a large
> group on the project, I’d like to join.  It looks like you have a C++ code
> base, whereas my experience is primarily in C#.  I have touched on and read
> upon C++ though.  My day job is a dev in a C# base, and I’m doing some of
> my own stuff in that technology of an evening, primarily web-facing with an
> emphasis on using abstraction and design to enhance feature sets with fewer
> lines of code.  I’ve been programming professionally for about 5 years, I
> follow the principles of clean code and TDD in my work.
>
> I’m located in California, SoCal to be specific.
>
> C# notwithstanding, if you’d value my joining your work, I’d like to do a
> little bit here and there at first to get solid in C++, avoiding memory
> leaks and so on (if those are still an issue — is there a GC now?), perhaps
> with let’s say "enhanced review” from a tolerant mentor.  As time goes by I
> could address bigger topics with minimal support.
>
> Is this reasonable?  Helpful?
>
> Someone please let me know!
>
> — Ed Fallin
>
>
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>
>

Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?

[Jorg Schmidt]

> From: Bruce Byfield [mailto:bbyfi...@axion.net] 

> I would suggest that the question goes beyond marketing. It is about 
> purpose as well. What makes AOO worth spending time on, as opposed to 
> any other similar project?

It is the high quality and practical significance.

OK, at the moment there are some problems, _but the intervention of Apache also
shows that we are properly organized, we have a functioning quality management_.

The update cycles are possibly a little too long, but not much. The right update
cycle for commercial users, should be between 12-18 months are (necessary 
security
updates in addition)

> For that matter ask why people have NOT chosen AOO. 

Most people use AOO, LO is strong only on Linux. AOO to dominate under MS 
Windows,
and there are >90% of all office users (AOO, LO, MS Office, etc.)

> But why, for example, is AOO 
> almost totally 
> unrepresented in ODF Authors, 

For the German community, I can say that we edit the German-language 
documentation
OO under the direction to the PrOOo box (www.prooo-box.org).
3 people working there permanently(!) at the german documentation, and currently
employs a total of 5 people at the german documentation.

You can see here our recent public email about documentation:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-users-de/201608.mbox/%3C005e01
d1fd3d%2481d13960%248573ac20%24%40wienandt.de%3E


Note:
the PrOOo box is formally a third-party-Project, but the workers there are also
German community members of AOO.



Jorg


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