Re: [IxDA Discuss] Examples of good UX within Financial websites.
I would suggest you go to www.nextbanker.com and look for info there. It's hands down the best resource about banking and especially PBM out there. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=47652 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Examples of good UX within Financial websites.
doh! I meant netbanker.com sorry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=47652 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Rating vs Like
I would also recommend looking at what StackOverflow, their vote up/down engine is pretty well thought out. You can test it out at uxexchange.com where it's used. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=47342 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] Design observation
Dashboards are for multiple interpretations of the same data source, not for multiple data sources interpreted the same way. Thoughts? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
You can fix it now on the drafting board with an eraser or you can fix it later on the construction site with a sledge hammer - Frank Loyd Wright Using this quote is obviously a confused analogy given that the world of physical construction and design have very little to do with the world of digital constructions. You don't need a sledgehammer, you don't need to destroy something if you make a mistake in the digital world you can in fact change it if you find out you made a mistake without having to rebuild the entire building. If your button sits the wrong place, big deal, move it somewhere else. And you can apply completely different development methodologies. Continues integration just to name one way. So if people walk around and think about their discipline in a Frank Loyd Wright frame of reference then it's no wonder things go wrong and end up with the conclusions they do. They are however based on the wrong assumptions then. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
This still gets back to a poor design process internally. Yeah blame it on the process. Sorry but process don't save you from bad design decisions. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
. Changing substantial chunks of business logic is not easy. In fact, it can be prohibitively expensive. Can you give an example? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
Alan That is hardly an example. What part of the banking experience are you talking about? Netbanking or the actual bank website? I have worked with quite a few of both so I am interested to understand what part you are talking about? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
That didnt make it any clearer. The only reason why change in banking would be more expensive than other areas would be because of the strict security issues. I.e. you would develop something that would have to change the security system and the reprogram the same security system. But if that is the case, then you will most likely have to adhere to those restrictions anyway given that those systems are pretty limited in what they allow you to do so you cant really screw around with that part. Obviously if the bank anyway gives you the freedom to propose something that affects security issues you should thread carefully but I find that an unlikely scenario and I find it even more unlikely that you would catch it in a usability test. Now if you are lucky you work with a banking system that has more freedom once a secure connection is being established your design patterns would not be any different than what you would normally use and you would anyway operate within some sort of sandbox before you submit your data back to the core database. I am currently working on a self-service channel for a bank and frankly have yet to see what you could propose (unless as said above program and reprogram security) that would make it substantially expensive to change any more than any other area. But thats of course just my experience, I am still interested in understanding exactly what part it is you think make it more expensive. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How do you avoid canned designs?
I would look for how those two distinguish themselves and then use that to create two different solutions. There is always something that makes them different. That should be enough to make you able to reuse some of the design patterns while still providing that USP for the specific companies. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46649 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
Seems like a no-brainer yet some companies still test to a pool that isn't their target. And to add to the chaos, a lot of these favorites are often experts users who turn into UI experts themselves, by playing dumb, which means you end up with a rather unrealistic picture of the usability of your solution. Yet another reason to can this arcane pseudo-scientific field design. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
12 years of experience among other things. I have done my share of UCD which is exactly why I have abandoned it in most cases. But by all means, share your research data that proves that UCD provides better products/services than GD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
I for one have never said we shouldn't do user research, in fact I think that is one of the most important areas. My problem with the current state of usability testing is that it most often test in pseudo environments that tell you more about the quality of your mock-up than of any finished product/service. What happens often is that those responsible for the usability tests provides their findings to the designers but that there is no actual transcendence from the usability testing phase into the actual design and development phase. Figuring out where most users think a button should be have very little if any bearing on the quality of the finished product. It might sit exactly where the users wanted it yet there is still no conversion. Through the years I have seen this again and again which have made me suggest to my client's only to do usability tests if they are trying to test something completely new and even there I would be hesitant in some cases. I have no problem doing usability tests if they make sense, but it's at least my experience that they don't make sense in any close proximity to the amount of cases they are conducted and I find it rather troubling for the state of products and services that so many UX shops are popping up that only do the first part. A much better approach IMHO is do you research, design the monkey and let it loose in the jungle. THEN look at how users behave. In most cases that gives you plenty of information about what to do or not to do and whether to invite users of your product or not for qualitative studies. But the current UCD mania is simply on the wrong track and will hopefully fade with time as companies realize, there is no safe way to good products and succsess. IMHO You have to care about your users and you product and realize that the real test is the finished product, not a pseudo environment. It's not fair either to our clients or the users. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
Oh they irony. You would dismiss my experience doing these tests and having done observations regarding them, observations that that I am not at all alone with by the way. Yet you have no problems stating among other things Sitting next to a single user, watching them use a design, can be, by itself an enlightening process. No problems accepting that as valuable input, it's ok if a user critiques a design solution, they provide valuable input, But I am just stating an opinion. If it's an opinion it's an informed one and the problem don't go away just because you don't want to aknowledge it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
More irony... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Is software design a luxury?
interface design is a luxury given that it often gets too small abudget for its importance IMHO . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46603 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA discussions usability
Yohan Thanks for your answer. Yeah I thought it had something to do with it being a email list. But how hard can it be to submit the emails cronologically to the list? Do you know if the re-design is going to continue this line of posting inconsistency? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46547 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] IxDA discussions usability
So what is up with the IxDA forum, why is it made the way it is? Its really the most confusing thing I have ever experienced. I seem to have problems with reading all threads, sometimes I can see someone have commented but cant find their post as if it gets cut off, sometimes I cant submit a post? Is there anything I am missing here? Is it legacy from old mail list or what? Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Define a functional spec
The problem with the analogy is that is implies static composition. (i.e. property, architect, structure) What I would look for is digital ecosystem Environment, interaction, nodes, data i.e. something in constant flux, constantly evolving. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46482 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Visual Browsing Interface
Check out http://www.cooliris.com/ that is one of the best tools out there, all though I am sad that their former infinty scroolbar is not as good as it used to be. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46519 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Drag and Drop
It really depends on how its designed and how well it performs. The real problem might be the diversity in your age group. There is nothing that speaks against dragdrop as such, just be careful when introducing such a metaphor. If this is the only place you use that metaphor then make sure that some sort of visual guide will show what to do. Otherwise introduce more than 1 way of adding items to the boxes. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46469 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
Talking to users, testing prototypes (paper, screen, etc.) and analyzing their feedback teaches a designer what they don't know about the problem at hand. To ignore these is to proceed at your own peril. I am all for talking to users, I am all for analyzing their feedback. I just don't believe it should be done in the middle of the process but rather before (user research) and after (analyzing actual user behavior). Just insisting that usability testing is necessary does not make it so. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
This is akin to handing a contractor the well defined blueprints for your dream home, and then not seeing it for the first time until after the movers have already arranged the furniture. Since when have this been a question of taste? No what UCD do is telling the customer that as long as you solve the problems in the blueprint you have solved most issues. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
It's also worth repeating the message both Jakob Jared Spool are constantly talking about: test iteratively with a group of 5-10 participants. You'll find that 65% figure above rises to 99% in that case I find this an absurd statement. The above can only have some merit if we are talking about the actual product being tested. If we are talking wireframes or any other replacements for the real thing whatever you will find have very little if anything to do with what you find in the end. The real issues arise after the launch not before and the real question is not how many participants but at what point participants should be used. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
I have made this point before. I really don't in general see the usage of testing during the design process. I see great benefit in testing before starting on the actual design process in order to figure out what kind of problems, issues and tasks users want. But testing usability in an environment that is not final is IMO a waste of both time and money. Only if we are dealing with entire new paradigms do I see any reason to test. Most people who call them selves either information architects or UX'ers or designers should be able to deliver their part without needing to involve the users once the problems, tasks and purpose have been established. It is my claim that you can't really test usability before you launch the final product and that you should factor this in instead. I find the current state of UCD troubling to say the least. Jakob Nielsen is to me someone to read to get an understanding of users in general. But i just need a look at his website and then look around at other sites and applications to understand that his work as great as it is is only a fraction of the whole story. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Defining a UX vision
Then you need to define principles for what constitutes good product design from a UX point of view. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46323 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Article on Number of Usability Test Participants
Well, that's unfortunate. Not really. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by paradigms in this context. Perhaps you mean a function we've never seen before? In any case, you will generally find that very few users want problems or issues. They want functions. They want to be able to find those functions, and perform them with minimal exertion. And that's why we test. Who talks about wanting problems? They HAVE problems/issues and you need to understand what those are. Of course, they can, as long as they have the users' input. What appears to be a completely reasonable process, or an obvious button, or a clear name to someone working on the creation of an interface is likely to turn out to be obscure, hard to follow or incomprehensible when you put it in front of actual users. I suspect that everyone who tests throughout the process has had the experience of a test in which the perfect element turns out to be something that none of the users gets. Which could might as well be a problem of testing an unfinished product. None the less personally I have found much better value in testing the actual product/service rather than a pseudo scenario. It seems that many UCD proponents completely ignore how big an impact the actual real environment have on the experience of usability and are more intersted in the process leading up to the design and development. A button might not make sense when you experience it on a screen but if it's experienced in the actual context things often change quite drastically. A roll over or other choreopgraphy or a well designed layout can do all the difference. But you can test all the elements that are going in to the product. If no one notices the critical button on the second step even though your visual designer went to great lengths to position it and color it and so forth, precisely to make it obvious, it's better to know that before you've built an entire product that relies on users pressing that button. You are assuming that when the visual designer goes to greath length they don't understand anything about usability in general otherwise the above example is absurd. Why should the user know better where the button should be positioned? It is obvious that if you really where in such a situation where a button you went to great extent to figure out where should be positioned by highlighting it, still don't do the trick you are dealing with a completely different problem that have nothing to do with asking the users, but rather doing AB tests to figure out where you have most success. Jakob's site is built to highlight Jakob's group's expertise. It does so admirably. To generalize from that very particular example to what Jakob thinks all sites should be like is foolish in the extreme. When did I say that Jakob Nielsen said anything about how all sites should look like? Can you at least respond to what I write instead of creating claims I never made. In each of these cases the goal is the same: It's a lot cheaper to find something wrong on a piece or earlier in the process and correct it then than it is to have to go back and redevelop the whole product to set things right that you should have corrected months ago. All that would make sense if testing would rid us of bad products/services. Yet what often happens is that the process becomes such a piece of committee work that it loosens clarity and focus. UCD is not by any means an insurance against bad feature decisions it's not even an insurance against bad usability. It's like building a house on an improperly laid foundation. It's cheaper to fix the foundation alone than it is to fix the whole house. It's nothing at all like building a house, since building a house doesn't mean having the users of the house testing the foundation. They wouldn't know the difference most of the times. That is why you have experts with experience who know what they are doing. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46278 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What Other Fields Could UXers Steal From?
I actually don't think architecture is such a great comparison when you really start thinking about it. One could might as well ask the architect. Does Architecture push any bounds beyond architects artistic ambitions? Is there any usable or useful pursuit in the discipline that's not based on solving the the artist ambitions, but in providing proper usage of your building? Many architectural schools belong to the art department so they create architects who come out thinking they are artist who should create masterpieces and push the clients beyond the clients ambitions (which most of the times also means budget). They are like many visual designers caught between problem solving and aesthetics. But in the digital world, composition is death and the internet is the realization of post-modernism. To lend from architecture would be to move oneselves even further away from whatever service or product we are designing. Some areas of architecture such as landscape architecture are actually more important that the Frank Gehry types (although I am a big fan of their work) So if we are to lend from anyone it should be from areas, that don't see their work as a monument to be admired from afar but as a an environment to be actively used every day. My list would include among others: Industrial Designers, Engineers, Information Design, Motion Graphics, Neuroscience, Manufacturing, critical theory, programming, landscape architecutre, public transport planning. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46168 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What Other Fields Could UXers Steal From?
Jorge I am not talking about the glossy magazines. I am talking about the architects who get taught architecture as if it's art. The architects who would then go on to ask questions like: Does IA push any bounds beyond client concerns? Is there any artful or conceptual pursuit in the discipline that's not based on solving the immediate problem? As someone on archinect asked. So with all due respect, I think a little less sensitivity regarding what is written would be nice. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46168 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Using behavioral targeting to customize content
With last FM the goal is simple. Providing you with suggestions based on your musical neighbors. It look's at what you are listening to and what you say you like or don't. I can imagine that with you guys it's not that simple, unless you where able to get statistics of what the users watch on their television and whether they liked what they saw. So I am wonder what you are trying to achieve. Perhaps that is where we should really start? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46208 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What Other Fields Could UXers Steal From?
Who are those architects? Among others, the one I was referring to at archinect. Many architect that I know see themselves as artists or philosophers before they seem themselves as craftsmen. I have worked with architects who tried to apply their thinking into an online context. Wouldn't say it was exactly a success. It's just two different animals. Your characterization of architectural education, and of architects, does not match my experience or what I've heard described by others. Perhaps you can't see the forest for the threes? Perhaps I know other architects than you. Perhaps you don't see your friends as being artsy. None the less the issue is there. So you don't find it telling that the glossy magazines show these artsy architects if there is no one who thinks like that or are interested in architecture like that? The artistes/divas constitute a very small percentage of the population; most architects I know are looking to design problems within real-world constraints. I am sure they do. But the question is still what they see themselves as. Artist or craftsmen. I think less hyperbole would be even better. How can it be hyberbole by writing many schools it is many schools that have architecture as part of the faculty of arts which obviously will affect how things are taught. And it is many architects who think of their field as more art than craft. That does not mean all do, just that many do and those are the ones I am referring to. Claiming that they are few is simply against my experience. Sorry. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46168 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Wizard/Form Design Inspiration
Basically, I'm looking for examples that take in many inputs/fields and display many options/returns in a fun, clear, and easy-to-understand way. Real-time feedback (output updating as you type/select options) would be nice. Real time feedback is what will make it fun, clear and easy-to-understand. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46202 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Using behavioral targeting to customize content
We used to call the progressive contextual profiling. Did a big project for Bank Of America back in 98 with that. It makes sense to do this if you are trying to make sure that the user get only what is relevant to them. (i.e. if you are from the military, then information regarding military banking is important. But it's very dangerous assume what the users want to see if you don't have any clear idea about why they are selecting whatever specific category. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46208 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Using behavioral targeting to customize content
But isn't the problem that if you spend time understanding the customer then you risk understanding what they used to be interested in and not what they are currently interested in? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46208 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer continued...
The real short version of UCD is: Where users are asked to help you make design decisions. Don't agree. There are plenty of instances where Usability Testing, as an example method, has provided clear findings and solid recommendations towards improving the design or in some cases completely realigning strategy or UI frameworks. You are assuming your conclusion. Recommendations does not mean transcendence that is exactly my point. Transcendence is when the quality of the recommendations transcend into the quality of the actual end product. Usability tests are tests of the usability of whatever phases the design exist in, if it's wireframes you will test wireframes, if it's screens you will test screens. The problems being tested in these phases are inherrent in the phases themselves. If users don't see you button in the wireframe does not mean that he/she don't see it in the design. There is no process that ensures that whatever findings you have in your UCD process will transcend into the pixels and the programming, i.e. there is no transcendence. That you can get valuable finding through UCD is obvious and besides the point. They are still to my mind most of the times not worth it (there are a few situations where it makes sense, I have already listed those in another thread) Agree but still think you need to involve users along the way. Only if the problem you are dealing with are new and within the old paradigm. Does it have to be a pure UCD process, maybe not, but again this is where the right balance of focusing on user needs, knowing what research they are based on, following best practice, listening to the business, using design patterns (to name a few) and involving users at the right stages is is helpful. At the right stage yes, but that is where the disagreement lies. My claim is that you use users to figure out what tasks they are trying to accomplish and what problems they have with trying to solve them (qualitative user research) and then you test the actual usage statistically afterwards. No usability test, no focus groups, I would even be so bold to claim no personas. I personally don't need them and don't see their value they are false safety and false impression of quality. - Dont think it should and what do you base this on? On experience. 90% of the cases that UCD is normally used for you could just have gone with the accumulated knowledge that the UX in question already had. Do you really need to test if your navigation makes sense for the umpt time even though it's a bar in the top and a left menu navigation on the left? I say no, I say if you want to call yourself an expert that should be the type of expert that make sure that the end product is of good quality, not just the process of gathering user input. Where UCD really goes wrong is when it starts to think that every problem is unique and that you need users to find those little differences and that this should somehow inform your product or service down in the UI. That is in my opinion and experience simply just death wrong. A sign-up process shouldn't be unique, the communication to getting you sign-up should on the other hand. Do we know this about Apple? Do we know that Apple didnt apply some part of UCD in their process? Yes we do. I dont see this a whole or nothing approach with process - following UCD or not following UCD, its a mix of the right approaches that make all the difference - time, budget, culture, usability/UX/design maturity also play a role. Again I am not against user input, I am against using users to make design decisions with. That is what UCD is all about and that is where it is missing the point. - Perhaps but we have also seen many cases where the user articulates what they want clearly, it confirms what we thought and it helps the business communicate the voice of the customer to help make their case to management. The only thing that it do is save asses. Cause even when the product or service launches and fails, every one can claim that they asked the users what they wanted. You can't build a business on what users want. They want all sorts of things and they just want more of the same. You would soon end up with a spaceship that no one knows how to fly. What you need to do is to give them what is necessary. And that is your job as the expert to figure out what that is. If you look at the problems they have instead of what they want, then we are on to something. Some do and are becoming savvy enough to know. Part of our job is to know what suggestions to use and not use for our user base. This includes looking for patterns in data and finding insights that make a difference. This have no value is the transcendence is not happening into the actual finished product and that is what I am saying. UCD process lack fundamental transcendence into the actual design of the product. My guess is that is because it is primarily an academic discipline. . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer continued...
With transcendence I mean that there is some sort of quality transfer from one phase of the process to the next. I.e. the quality of the user research gets transferred into the UCD, that then get's transferred into the visual design and development and then at last into the user experience of the product/service. This does not happen because UCD focuses on the users needs, suggestions and validation of the current state of affaird rather than on the users problems and actual usage of the product. It becomes a pseudo solution to a pseudo problem, with pseudo suggestions that are not as such transferable into the actual design and development. I.e there is no guarantee that the end product is going to be any good just because you have done a fantastic comprehensive UCD process. Now that is not the fault of the people doing the UCD, that is the fault of the UCD approach in itself. My suggestion is that you do UCD when it's needed which in my mind is when you are dealing with something there is no accumulated knowledge about. Otherwise it's your damn job to know enough about most areas to design a decent and usable solution yourself. UCD have become a mantra and the fact that there are companies who only do that is to me a clear evidence that something have gone terrible wrong. It should have been a tool, now it has become a religion. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=46034 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
@Ambrose I didn't say you did, sorry if it sounded like that. I was just elaborating on my view. @Daniel Well care about the user what does that even mean? Making great products is caring about the user, there you go problem solved :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
I see it as not giving lip service to the user. For example, lovely posters pinned up in the office saying things like customer commitment with pictures of flowing rivers ; ) Or your call is important to us when clearly its NOT! The department that would say this is not the department that would do UX. So I am still wondering from a UX perspective what the even means. If you are in a business you are forced to focus on revenue and budget not on your users. This does not mean that you shouldn't understand the users, that is obviously as important as ever, but I wonder how valuable, focusing on the users, the way I understand you, really is, when it get's down to it. Users generally don't 1. know what they want 2. know what they could get So how would this care for the customer play itself out if not through trying to create the best products that will make them love you. So this leaves us once again back to the problem of transcendence. How does caring about the user really transcend into making better products. I still haven't gotten anyone able to explain this. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Toward a search dominant wayfinding paradigm (worth it?)
Google IS your dominant wayfinding paradigme. Just become one with their search algorithm and keep the site as it is. A lot of Adobe is about not knowing what you don't know. If I know what I want I am going to search google and then hopefully you have the answer. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45983 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple\'s connection with the consumer continued...
Yes and perhaps thats the nature of business - make money, save money, profit and hopefully along the way do good. Perhaps business needs to change its model in a sustainable world? (but that's another discussion) But ... Why can't a business focus on all 3? Why are these mutually exclusive? Why not find a balance of all 3? Business can do that, but they don't need UCD for that. On the contrary I would claim that UCD all to often muddles the water by providing a false impression of quality even when you have conducted for instance a usability test where you come up with some interesting findings. There is no transcendence from these findings into the actual design and implementation. What you need is some really good UX people who care about the nitty gritties of interface design (the pull downs, the roll overs, the organisation of data, structure, accordions, buying process), some good developers and designers to follow that through who care equally and who have a genuine interest in making interfaces and user experiences that are easy to use. What bothers me even more is that it seems as if UCD ignores any kind of accumulated knowledge and insist that every project should be using the UCD process. Now that does not mean that there are not proponents and practicioners of UCD who care about these things, but then it's them and their accumulated knowledge that makes the difference not the UCD process. Suggest by pissing off your user base long enough they will be sure to move on (unless of course they have no choice, as was the case with mobility a few years back) Yes and that is despite that plenty of mobile companies did plenty of usability studies. Along came apple and turned it on it's head now everyone is running to catch up and I am sure a lot of Mobile UCD experts are going to make notice of their arrival. Yet the real experts where those who didn't use UCD IMHO, apple. Again if users don't know what is possible then they can't make suggestions that pushes you into a new paradigm. They can make suggestions in the old paradigme but that is hardly of any real value when it comes down to it. That is in 90% of the cases. Disagree and suggest users do know what they want, its just that they may not always know how to articulate it. They know what they want in the old paradigme but that is hardly different than what any good interface desiger or UX knows through the accumulated knowledge they have or by conducting reasearch into mapping what kind of problems users are going to make. None the less even when the occasional user know what they want, we are again back to the problem of transcendence. You haven't solved the problem by stating the problem or suggesting what would be a nice feature. The how you are going to solve the suggestion is the important factor not the what. Users certainly know when they have experienced a crap product or service and in some cases have nice ideas on how to improve upon it. Its embarrassing at times to have users tell us things that should have been addressed by the business much earlier (again yet another discussion) I simply don't buy this as an argument. If you really find users who can help you solve the how you should hire them and not test them. I am all for doing user research and finding out what kind of problems users have, but to claim that they can suggest how to solve them is flat out wrong, how would they know? Knowing something is crap does not mean that you know how to make it better. And whatever suggestions they might have, you are going to work hard to convince me that their suggestions transcend well into the design or development process. And let's be honest here. Most of the times UCD is used by our clients to push away responsibility. And THAT is a problem of businesses that I think would be fair to address both for the companies and the end users. Just because I know how to use a hammer does mean that I know how to make a good one. I can however listen to customers my customers and learn what kind of tasks they are trying to accomplish and then go back into the lab and try to come up with a better hammer. Why would that be so different in our field? I take the users needs and problems very serious, that is what I am being payed to do, but it's my responsibility to convert my knowledge of their problems into a solution, that is what makes me the expert and them the user. Thomas, out of interest - How do you think about your target users in the work you do? It really depends. Mostly when I think about target users I think about them in terms of style and communication. If I think about them in the context of creating for instance a product or service I look at them based on the frequency of use of the product or service. The allowed complexity curve. www.hellobrand.com/complexitycurve.pdf If it's an area that I know little off I am going to read up on the research that exist on them as much as I can. If little research
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
I think drawing too many general design principle inferences from Apple is dangerous for many of the reasons given. The main one for me is context and purpose. Their approach works for them because of who they are and what they are trying to make. Their approach works for anyone who cares about making great products/services. You can't process your way to a great product. You can use the process to cover ground but there is no inherent quality transcendence in the UCD process or any other for that matter that You have to care about the actual product and not the process. That requires intuition about how to transcend the task at hand into something desirable. Apple has that but that does not mean you shouldn't have it just because you are not Apple. I know quite a few people who work(ed) at Apple and they are all great designers with great intuition but they can't walk on water. They have however a great leader who cares about great products. Why on earth shouldn't an insurance company, a bank, a consultancy, an online shop, an appliances company or what have you care for making the best damn service available to mankind? There is no reason not to. @Jared Have you done any research about online banks? There is a whole blue ocean waiting with online banking going from cost reduction argument to service improvement because of the possibilities of RIA's. Yet almost everyone I talk to think that their online banking experience is great, which is no wonder since most of them suck so they don't have anything to compare with. And along came Mint.com and have turned the banking experience on it's head providing real value for it's customers. (I am aware Mint.com is not a bank but it could might as well had been) It seems to me that UCD will always itself be caught in what Clayton Christensen famously called The Innovators Dilemma The new ideas that it get's is within the paradigme of the ideas existing. I have yet to hear about any game changer derived from UCD. Noboy ever built at statue of a comity ;-) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
I think drawing too many general design principle inferences from Apple is dangerous for many of the reasons given. The main one for me is context and purpose. Their approach works for them because of who they are and what they are trying to make. Their approach works for anyone who cares about making great products/services. You can't process your way to a great product. You can use the process to cover ground but there is no inherent quality transcendence in the UCD process or any other for that matter that You have to care about the actual product and not the process. That requires intuition about how to transcend the task at hand into something desirable. Apple has that but that does not mean you shouldn't have it just because you are not Apple. I know quite a few people who work(ed) at Apple and they are all great designers with great intuition but they can't walk on water. They have however a great leader who cares about great products. Why on earth shouldn't an insurance company, a bank, a consultancy, an online shop, an appliances company or what have you care for making the best damn service available to mankind? There is no reason not to. @Jared Have you done any research about online banks? There is a whole blue ocean waiting with online banking going from cost reduction argument to service improvement because of the possibilities of RIA's. Yet almost everyone I talk to think that their online banking experience is great, which is no wonder since most of them suck so they don't have anything to compare with. And along came Mint.com and have turned the banking experience on it's head providing real value for it's customers. (I am aware Mint.com is not a bank but it could might as well had been) It seems to me that UCD will always itself be caught in what Clayton Christensen famously called The Innovators Dilemma The new ideas that it get's is within the paradigme of the ideas existing. I have yet to hear about any game changer derived from UCD. Noboy ever built at statue of a comity ;-) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
Even with that said, this Genius Design approach can fall flat on its face: Apple TV. Of course it can, but so can UCD and I would claim do more so regularly. And I think that one have to separate the success of the products from the usability of the product in this discussion. Genious Design is not a guarantee for success, it's just makes it more likely that you are able to advance your product the right way and think about how things are connected. Genius Design is a much more honest approach IMHO. But yes it requires experienced designers/UX/developers. And I think that is what our clients pay for. Who was it who said that Nobody ever built a statue of a comité ? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
Yes let's not get into that discussion :) I don't think we disagree as such and I have already explained where I think UCD makes sense. I am talking in general terms not specific. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] nice read: On Apple's connection with the consumer
I don't think GD or what I have proposed have ever been don't include users in your design process The main disagreement seem to be WHERE to include them and for what. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45895 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Subject: What are your principles for making digital products/services
Don Norman is dead wrong about this: that something emotionally appealing can basically make up for its lack of usability I don't think he is wrong, but rather we need to expand the scope of our thinking about interfaces. Take for teddybear robot or the Aibo. They might not be usable, you might not control them 100% and they might do stuff you didn't ask them to. But any kid will get an affinity with this robot. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45847 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] E-commerce websites for mobile
Depends on what phone(s) you are targeting. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45870 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
My fear is that aesthetics-over-usability could be interpreted by others in that fashion, even though I know that's not what it means to you. Yes I think you are right but I think it pays to understand what that really means. Function is as important a part of the form and it's hard to separate the two when you really get down to it. This is particularly true when it comes to RIA's where the choreography of elements plays an ever increasing role. As the staccato approach to GUI's disappear (click refresh of entire screen) the legato approach (click new element on screen transitions from it's former look) get's more and more important. Legato transitions ad's to the usability factor because the user don't have to re-orientate themselves but instead experience that the interfaces react in the context the user thinks in. The elements of the functionality becomes small screens in themselves. It also helps to give the user a constant experience of success which is how game developers often think (any large game is really just a collection of many small games) It is my view that usability increases dramatically when you apply the legato approach to your design and that that is where the experience comes in. Improving the look and feel should mean improving the clarity of the experience to give it character not just making it nicer to look at. It doesn't hurt that it looks stunning but clarity can get lost in looking good (for instance the tendency to flatten the color palette or to put to much detail into the look of system buttons) The task of the UX person is therefore to balance content (information), form (aestethics), function(tools that your site gives the user) and choreography (how they work) This is the idea behind my how not what principle. Interface is brand. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
Jarod I am sorry you feel it is somehow disrespecting the work you and others have been doing. I don't think I am, it is not an all out attack on UCD proponents but a critique of the practice of UCD in general. You say that is has been proven that UCD delivers ROI but measured up against what? I for one am not talking about not involving users, I am just talking about involving them differently than the normal UCD process do, for reasons I have already outlined and that you are welcome to critique if you find them to be wrong. No one is talking about not having the user involved in the process but simply that the user in the UCD in general is involved the wrong places. Places that don't IMO actually give any proper indications of what is is testing for the final product because there is a disconnect between the propotype (often paper and static) and the actual final product. Furthermore I do find it interesting and disturbing that most people who are proponents of the UCD process are academic people who don't actually do the final design themselves inhouse which no matter how you turn it around obviously creates a problematic favoring of the UCD process rather than a more holistic understanding (not just view) of the design process in general. UCD to often becomes a consultancy position rather than an actual position of creation. If you fell that is somehow disrespecting you then I am sorry, but that is how I have come to see the UCD business with my only 14 years of experience in this field. But if the model is broken which I feel it is, I feel it's also my obligation to raise the issues as I see them. If you or others can show that it's not like what I am describing then by all means argue for why I am wrong instead of fuming and questioning my experience in the field. Just because I don't write a thousand blogposts and have podcasts does not mean I don't know what I am talking about. I just spend my time on different things than you. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
I am not trying to be arrogant if that is how it comes across then I am sorry. I am sure most people here could write a whole book (and some probably have) about why usability testing is good. So why is it so bad that I can write one about what is bad? If it works for you then great. I have done a lot of UCD my myself and I just realized that what is being tested is not something that have transcendence into the actual design of the product/service in any way that it is valuable for the customer. Furthermore I have observed that those most avid defenders of UCD are people with an academic background and not a design background. Yes I am generalizing of course that is not always the case, but there is something there that I think should be addressed. When people defend the UCD process. But this was not really about my points I also wanted other people to give their principles. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
When I am talking about designers I am those who do the pixel work to. Are you saying that most people doing UCD are both visual designers and Interaction Designers? That is not my experience. I wonder what the statistics would be here on IxDA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
Well it all of course depends on what type of project you are doing. There are 4 main types of projects as far as I am concerned. 1. Redesigning an existing platform 2. Designing a new platform but something that there already exist best practice and an audience for (i.e. a competitor to Flickr) 3. Designing something with no established best practice (i.e. something new and unique, such as a keyboard controlled by your pinky or a platform or an interface for a car that drives on electricity ala Better Place. 4. Designing something with established practice but a new type of audience (i.e. a platform for connecting refugees) Normally your project falls into one of these 4 categories with category 3. Being the very rare occasion. My proposal normally is to get the user involved in the beginning to figure out what kind of tasks are the user trying to solve Not what do they want, how do the user want it to look like, what kind of ideas do the user have. Of course there are sometimes the possibility to find some gems from users inputs, but that is hardly gems that will make the investment worth while. If their gem is so important it's a showstopper to the success of whatever you are doing I would say that you got a whole different type of problem. It's like digging for gold but only finding plastic pearls. No what you want is to get an understand about some of the problems the user have on a more holistic level. Cause that will help you inform your solution and not the actual design decisions. This in return makes sure that you have taken users into account i.e. you are actually looking at what problems they have and NOT whether they think you solved their problems, which is the most used process for UCD from what I have gathered throughout the years. Only the third type really warrants continuous user involvement IMHO, but because you are really testing something different which is the learning curve and not the actual solution. I say this because I believe that in most cases, 99% of the time you can't introduce something new without some sort of learning curve. The real trick is to figure out whether this learning curve is worth it or not. I.e. are you helping the users solve something they couldn't solve any other way and is the time it will take for them to solve it worth it. But this will relate back to whether you are helping the user solves tasks they are trying to accomplish. I then propose that you do some in/house testing for stability of your solution and to see whether your solution do as you intend it to do. Again this goes back to my how not what principle. Even slight changes in feedback from rollovers, transitions placement, colors etc. can have huge impact. This impact is big because that is where the solution comes alive really. That is where people relate to it, that is what they might (if you are lucky) create an emotional bond with. They like to use your interface, not because how it looks, not because of your design patterns, not because it\s coded in ruby, not because it has a carrousell but because all these things play together to create the experience. How can anyone be so bold to claim that they test the experience by making usability tests or focus groups is beyond my imagination. I never understood it and probably never will. To me the advocate for the users are those who actually look at the problems and tasks they want to solve and design solutions for it, not those who claim to be advocates beacause they value user input over a developer or mangement. By listening to what customers really want the middle section is not necessary and you can involve the users where it really matters which is in the launch of the product. Where all the excuses are gone, where users don't have to imagine the real data, but where the data is real, where everything they see is a companies attempt to help them solve their problems. Not solve the problems that testing in the middle of the process creates for proper feedback. That's just my five cent . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
By listening to what customers really want should have been By listening to what customers really need . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] JOB - User Experience Designer at Blitz
1) No CMS (that I know of), so content usually changes very slowly, because you have to upload a whole new Flash package to make the smallest change. Totally wrong. There are plenty of CMS solutions out there, further more good frameworks such as Gaia. You must be reffering to flash 2.0 or something like that. 2) Little SEO, so the company is obviously not interested in being found by a search engine. That's OK, I guess, but a little short- sighted in my opinion. Anywhere you can get someone to find you is a potential piece of work. Again wrong! You can booth deeplink plus google nowaday actually spider your flash files. Further more you seem to be under the impression that a company like Blitz would need SEO the way other products would need it. That is obviously wrong by any extent. Companies like Blitz do good work people will come to them. Companies like Blitz are not in the SEO game. 3) No blog integration (that I know of), and the companies that I like often have a blog. It gives me a little hint as to what they think and where their priorities are. Again wrong 4) Not viewable on an iPhone (or most others, for that matter). That means that if you are on the road and trying to reach them, need a contact number or email and not at a desktop, you are out of luck. In this case, they don't even redirect to a page with directions - you just get a page that doesn't render properly. That's just not acceptable. As far as I know flash have been around for a long long time, way longer than the iPhone. Normally one would say that the player that enters the game latest should know the game. The problem is not that flash cannot be played on the iPhone but that the iPhone don't allow for it. 6) The whole rotating thing that people do with Flash always reminds me of neon signs and electronic billboards (and scoreboards). In a word, tacky and irritating. Now, that isn't exactly a problem with Flash, but with how companies like this one use it on their Web sites. If they want to present themselves as tasteless and in-your-face, that might work for some clients, but it's not a company I'd want to work for either. All you seem to be doing here is illustrate that you don't understand the context these guys work in. I am amazed that you could even make up that list as it seem so far from reality. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45653 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] JOB - User Experience Designer at Blitz
The point is not about the company wanting to rank higher on Google, nor about the website being search engine friendly. Is about supporting users. Understanding and supporting user goals is what Interaction Design is about. And given that Blitz delivers flash solutions it obviously makes sense to show what they can do in flash. THAT is understanding users. I don't know else you would propose? Flash is deeplinkable and if anyone actually took the time to look then they would notice that that is what blitz did. http://www.blitzagency.com/ourWork.aspx?template=brandStoryexpertise=40brandId=3 So it is quite accesible for SEO even thought that is not really what is necessary for blitz. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45653 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] JOB - User Experience Designer at Blitz
And take a look at the source... You are speaking of your own prejudice about flash not about Blitz actual usage of it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45653 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] JOB - User Experience Designer at Blitz
I said 'That I know of'. It's true that I'm bit familiar with Gaia, but I doubt if they are using that. Please list a single CMS (preferably not hacked) solution for Flash instead of simply saying 'totally wrong'. About the only thing I've seen that comes close is http://www.flashxmleditor.com/ , (which seems pretty limited from their demo) but I'd be happy to learn of something more than that. Why does it matter whether they use it or not? You said they werent around so far we have talked about two of them. Then there is http://www.flashloaded.com/flashcomponents/fcms/ http://flashblocks.com/ http://www.comatool.com/ These are just a few there are many more. Furthermore since it's all XML it quite easy to hook most CMS systems up with it. And Gaia is quite a good framework with tons of big clients who uses it. I would challenge any Flash site to get as high on search engine results as a continuously optimized one in HTML. I'd also like to see one that can include HTML snippets that make it easy to to SIte Analytics. As for deeplinking, IMHO, that's a pretty awkward mechanism in Flash, and hardly one I'd want to rely on for my site getting the kind of hits I'd want. You are really missing the point. Blitz delivers flash sites among other things for their clients. Their clients don't look for flash companies, they are not in the SEO game neither is most agancies. You are confusing herbalife and viagra with the agency business. Here referrals and network is king not SEO. Furthermore if you actually took the time to look at the source code you would see that it's pretty well covered with regards to SEO. Don't take my word for it, investigate it yourself. That's the kind of arrogance that I saw with the company I left (as I made clear). 'We don't need SEO' they said. Fine. I don't agree with that strategy, but that doesn't make me (once again) 'wrong' because that's a strategic decision with no right or wrong answer, not a technological one. Why is that arrogance? Some companies don't need SEO. But if your argument is don't do flash because of SEO then you are not only wrong, it's you who are arrogant IMO. There is plenty of opportunity to do SEO today even with flash sites. You bring up criticism that have long been solved. Again, please point out how you integrate a blog into Flash instead of just saying 'wrong' Depends obviously on what kind of blog you are talking about. Fantasy Interactive did a blog only in flash at one point. But why would you do it anyway? Normally you would do you blog in HTML but that is not a reason not to use Flash. Look at how blitz do it, it's not just as simple as a flash site. It's much more than that. Even if it could, displaying this site in a tiny window wold be ridiculous - it's made for a huge screen. So are websites, that's hardly a problem with flash. What's amazing to me is how hostile your tone is. I'm merely saying that this site, as well as a lot of other sites that use Flash, are ones that I find flawed. As for as not understanding the context they work in, I've worked in their industry for 20 years. Please calm down. Not hostile, just tired. You arguments are totally ignorant of where flash actually are today. That is what annoys me, it wasn't meant to be hostile. As for as not understanding the context they work in, I've worked in their industry for 20 years. ehm didn't you just yourself say: The length of time either technology has been around is irrelevant, but a convenient excuse. :) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45653 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Adobe Fireworks for wire framing
Brian Over Photoshop because it has pages and states, because it\s faster and is made for interface design and web design. Because you can make components with it and output them either to flash or html. Because it's intutive and gives you all those nifty tools you need that make sense. Over InDesign because it's pixel precise and gives you a better idea of how much you can actually squeeze in plus all of the above mentioned reason. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45590 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
The process of repetitive testing, whereby the tester is doing the same tests each day, is in my opinion not that useful. In my experience this can achieve little to no positive result. What occurs is the dev team gets unnecessary reports that clog up the development cycle. It's not the same tests every day. It's more of an agile approach where you make sure your solution first of all is solid and launch, then test. If you have proper visual designers with UX background or UX designers who actually know their way round in the various tools that is used by designers, you really don't need much more. I have yet to see a project using UCD approaches that actually gave any specifically good results, where as when we didn't use it our solutions where much better and needed much less change afterwards. and that is both for large scale projects and small scale projecst. That is at least my experience. I have yet to see any valuable output coming out of a usability test in those 99% of the projects that are not really trying to change any new ground. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
What established knowledge? I am not against testing, just against certain types of testing. I can expand on why. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45640 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Googles focus seems more speed centered than it's user centered. So I don't believe that is a good example. Pagerank was not based on users either but on an approach to search and prioritizing. Googles clean look was not some well thought out process involving the users. It was simply based on observation other sites and the fact that it was a beta version the became successful. Again you don't need to do UCD to have the user one of your main focuses. The question is HOW you use user input not if you should. UCD assumes that you create better products by involving the user in the design process. That is what is wrong with UCD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Again Why are you and others assuming that users are not always in the center when one is designing? How can you not have the user in the center? The difference is that UCD insist on a process that involves the user in the actual design process to inform the design. That is what is the problem. Not hat one of course have to relate to those using your application. But UCD does not solve the problem it intents to solve, which is to reach better design decisions. Google is by no definition user centered, it's data centered. Google Maps, data centered Do they use user input, sure, but it's not a showstopper which UCD implies. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Again All design is user centered, it's not like someone don't considder the user. The challenge haa always been, how do one best design for the user. UCD is an attempt to solve that problem by including the users in the design process. If you by UCD means the design should have the usage of real users as it's goal then of course. That is not what UCD to my knowledge means. It means that the user is partaking in designing it. That they have a say on how a given will end up. That their input is used to make decisions with, not just as input before the design process starts. That is the difference. If you don't have a design background (whatever selftaught or academic) then UCD makes a lot of sense since it helps you make those decisions. But you don't need it if you know how to design and you don't get better results just because you use it. It's really quite simple. If you know how to design, if you have spent a considderable time with the trade, then there is no reason why you should use UCD. In 99% of the cases what is being created is repetition of what have already been done. If you want to create something truly new (such as a different type of pointer instead of a mouse) then it's obvious you need to involve the users. But then again if you do that then you are most probably an engineer and not an academic. Most people I know how favors UCD are people with an academic background, they suddently found themselves in this field, they didn't work their way through the different skillsets needed to really understand the user. They understand the user from an intellectual point of view, but they don't get the users relation to the application cause they never really spend the time actually working with the nitty gritty. Of course I am generalizing, but there is a reason for that generalizing and that is that there are much truth in it. UCD is an academic discipline it's not a design discipline, you don't learn from UCD what you can't learn from looking at quantitative data, how the user REALLY moves around, the problems the user REALLY have. Instead you get opnions most of the time, simply just opinions that don't reflect the actual behavior of the user online. Just as en example. The expert users will often in a usability test play dumb. They will act as if they are the usability experts themselves and thus create a false idea about the issues that might exist. There really is only one way to get to a great product and that is. Design Deploy Test It requires skilled designers with a lot of experience and good intuition. Everything else is IMO just play for the gallery. I have done both UCD and Genius for many times now and I always end up with better products when I use the users to define their problems and then design a solution instead of involving the user in the decision making process. It might keep a lot of academical trained people in job, but the value is really not in the UCD approach but rather in learning to define the problems you want to solve and then solve them rather than creating a pseudo debate in the middle of the design process that only muddles the clarity. That does not mean that there aren't great academical people out there who understands this, but in most cases UCD is simply a poor replacement for a proper designer with no real added value outside of the closed premise of UCD itself. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Reading the book On interaction by Bill Moodridge it's quite obvious that Google didn't have utilize UCD. They saw a problem with how search-engines at that time was approached and found a different way to approach it. The page was just done quickly to get something up and running and lo and behold it worked people used it. The greatest successes of google are based around people. Google Maps (Two danes who got acquired by google) Google Wave (the same two danes) Google News (some guy at google just did it for fun) Gmail (the basic principles again where done by some guy not involving users to create the fundamental idea) Google is data centric. To them data is everything. Do they use UCD sure they do, but they didn't need to. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
I always took UCD to mean that user's needs (and not users themselves) were placed well in the centre (but not exclusively) of the design process. Yeah I guess we disagree here. When I normally get involved in UCD it has a specific process in mind resembling that which I outlined. Perhaps the issue is that the origninal intent have mutated. Having worked in a hospital, I can tell of some disasterous pieces of equipment that had a negative impact on people's lives due to poor design. Sure as I said, if you are doing something truly new that don't have a well established set of design patterns you will involve the users to a great extent. But these kinds of projects are the exception not the rule. For most cases where UCD is hailed as the way forward we are talking about standard design problems (need to create a timesheet application, video player, financial application, community etc. I know it isn't very artistic, but it is design nonetheless. From my training as a psych, there are ways to tease this information out but it takes a lot of work with training and experience to do it well. I don't believe in artistic I believe in problem solving. Design is the ability to make informed decisions solving various problems. It's not game of aesthetics although they do have a positive impact on clarity when applied properly. But it does feel like user centred design to me simply because the user's needs are core to the design itself. I really wasn't aware that UCD demanded only qualitative data. It doesn't but it puts a certain weight to it that is unwarrented the way it's used in most cases. Of course the user is always in center that is exactly what I and others are saying. It's just not in the center as it's used most often in UCD which to me is a specific approach towards designing solutions. At the end of the day the real test is the final product, someone has to sit there and move the pixels around so they make sense. Involving the user as most agencies do when they claim UCD is simply not enough. It is of course enough for the clients because they can then always defend poor results with user testing. It's become a placebo that don't really solve the problem IMHO. The real trick is to understand what users do, not what they say they do or want to do. With regards to quantitative data I would bet you that if we did a sample of 20 agencies that claimed they used UCD, perhaps only one actually used quantitative data. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Are carousels effective?
They can be very powerful if you are careful about performance and how they work. The functionality in itself is not enough it's really about HOW you make it work. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45551 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Doh! Designing Interactions is of course the name of Bill Moggridges book. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
I don't even understand how someone could claim that I have said that user information is damaging. That is by no measure what I said. What I am basically saying is that UCD in itself does not solve the problem that it intents to solve. UCD does not give you better information about the user, that is what I am saying. Charles I am well aware of what clients want, don't want, understasnd etc. but I am simply saying that from my experience which is considerable UCD have never helped make a product more successful. That does not mean that the user is not important but simply not for the reasons and by the process of UCD. I have simply yet to see what the insights UCD gives you that can't be measured and superseeded by experienced designers. The problems that you solve with the UCD process is inherrent in the UCD process itself. For instance you create a new navigation based on user inputs and then test it on the user. Unless you actually give them the finished experience you have no way of knowing whether the problem is with the navigation or whether it's because the navigation is shown in a prototype. The context get's lost and so do the validity of the data. You have to get it out there and have people use it and then get the feedback, not try to solve it within the process before you launch it. Unless of course you are solving some really fundamental problems, but that is not the case in 99% of the situations where UCD is used. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
I would also take issue with this advocate for the user claim that many proponents of UCD seems to be flagging. You are advocate for your approach to the user perhaps, but it seems like almost a claim for moral superiority when I hear this claim. I always design with the user in mind, I just don't use the user in the middle of the process. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
The important thing here is this: are the results valid. If they are, then qualitative data are good. If not, then they are not regardless of what the data are. The real difference is having someone who knows what they're doing. Knowing what they are doing with regards to what? Knowing how to take user input and feed it into the design considerations? Sure but that is not really the challenge. The challenge is to actually create the product, the solution that you end up with, not just the considerations behind it, not just the intellectual part but the actual creation with the pixels and the metaphors and the choreography. It's not about that what but about the how. That is what sets a solution apart. How is something actually implemented, not just what is implemented. And that users can't help you test unless you actually make some decisions and run the program so to speak. The important thing here is this: are the results valid. If they are, then qualitative data are good. If not, then they are not regardless of what the data are. But the question is valid measured up against what? The UCD process or the actual finished product/service/application. How do you know that it was the UCD process and not just the designers and developers who did a great job with their typography, grid, transitions etc. The real difference is having someone who knows what they're doing. You criticise academics, but I've seen a fair few cowboys in industry over the years. This is probably where this disparity in UCD's definition comes from. Perhaps you disagree with the lack of real skills that some practitioners have? After all, if they make a bundle of errors based upon misconceptions about an approach, does that make the approach worthless? The problem is not that they are academic. I know enough great designer with an academic background. The problem is that most academics don't have the skills to actually implement their insights. UCD don't solve the actual problems (how does it actually work and look and feel) but solves the process of structuring the input from users. It asumes it's conclusion IMHO. There is no real beneficial transcendence so to speak for the UCD process into how the designer, developer actually implements it. You can have the most well thought out process if your designers are shit your product will be shit. If your designer are great they will make your product great even if you have a novice UCD process. I don't mind people using UCD but I mind it when they claim that they are suddently taking the user into account as if others don't or that the process deliver actual value that can't be solved with an experienced designer. btw, I'd disagree about there being no need for testing for relatively familiar things. An awful lot in my experience is counter intuitive and seemingly simple things can interact in unexpected ways. Good testing can also show up stuff that designers might never consider. Again you can test all you want, the problem is that there is only one test and that is the final product. Let me put this a little bit differently. If you where to decide between testing during the process or testing after the implimentation and could only choose one of them, what would you choose? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
@Charles: Actually, in my experience that is not true. When we began focusing on usability in the 1980's, the user was rarely thought about. What do you mean with rarely thought about? What ever application you where doing at that point it clearly had users in mind didn't it? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Charlie I am curious. I had a look at your company. It seems like you are doing everything but actual designing the solutions (on a pixel basis). How do you make sure that the actual solutions your company come up with are being implemented properly when it reaches design and implementation? How does the insights you create and the wireframe I am guessing you create, transcending into actual design? It seems to me that if you can't solve that then you are running the risk of being a Jakob Nielsen who might now alot about user behavior but don't walk the walk (not saying that you don't walk the walk I am assuming you do) Do you care about the actual design and development implementation and how do you ensure that the quality that you achieve get's carried into the actual products? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Way Out vs Exit - Signage usability and passenger experience
It seems to me that Exit is understood also by non-english speakers where as way out is not. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45282 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
What do you mean that changes can't be tested after implementation? That is the whole point of this discussion. Where should you test, how should you test, when should you test, how should you use data. UCD = consider users in defining architecture That is by no definition neither in theory nor in practice what UCD is from what I have seen. UCD is a set of tools for making sure that the users is part of the process in making decisions. If the proponents of UCD is simply saying consider users then we are all doing UCD. But that is not what they are saying. They are saying that you need to involve the user and use their inputs from focus groups, usability tests etc. No, users will not design the most compelling product, but they will give ideas, push you in the right direction, and help you see things from their POV. I am not interested in their POV. I am interested in how they actually behave. I am not interested in their ideas, I am interested in their problems, there is no such thing as a right direction. All these things don't need UCD it needs proper designers that understands both users and how to solve problems for the users. It's no coincidence that quite a few UCD companies don't do the actual implementation. participatory/crowdsourcing That field is something completely different from UCD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
What do you mean that changes can't be tested after implementation? Should have been changes can't be made . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Keep in mind, there are popular delivery models that don't allow for frequent updating of a product's design after release, which can be synonymous with implementation. My point really was something akin to the old adage that it is easier to make changes early, so it is smart test early. But the problem with testing early is that you are often testing a product that don't exist yet, that don't have any tangibility. So what you are testing is your wireframe and not the actual end product. Again if we are talking about something new and unique of course you should test it and use users, but that is not the case in 99% of the situations UCD is applied. It's much better IMHO to build in very early (what do users want) phase and a later (who do users actually use) phase than what we normally see which is in the actual process. And that has a lot to do with the academic background that most UCD proponents have. They don't have the background for learning how to actually design, but on how to gather information and structure it. Of course that becomes their approach then. It is also no coincidence that many products are designed and brought to market with basic and egregious usability issues. Despite many of these being put trough UCD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] What are your principles for making digital products/services
I would like to hear what principles different people use when making digital products. Here is a the most fundamental of mine: 1. Start simple, stay simple. It cannot be said enough. Less is more much more, and there is a very good explanation that it pays to understand. If you do less you can measure more. If you can measure more you can better experiment with what works. Most products are simple, based on simple insights. Make sure that you stay true to that idea as you develop until you know you have done everything possible to test it. Dont add new features and think that it will help, it wont, not yet. When Zyb was designed in 2005 they made sure to make their product as focused around the administration of mobile data. They didnt change until they had tried out different possibilities to see what worked. http://000fff.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/021.png 2. Build to integrate. Think about whether your product could be a good extension to already existing products/services. That way you are tapping into the already existing digital ecosystems out there. This will make it easier for people to adopt your product and provide you with a trust factor that you have a very hard time obtaining on your own. 3. Dont confuse change with improvement. One of the biggest challenges when record artist produce their albums is the fatigue from listening to the same riffs over and over. Its one of the reasons why many of them have a problem listening to the album when its finally out. Startups as intense and time consuming as they often are can be similar. Its very tempting after a couple of months of looking at the same interface over and over to want to change it. Dont submit to this whether you are a manager, designer, developer. stay on target. You are making this for your customers not yourself and they, unlike you havent seen anything before. 4. Dont do everything that is possible only what is necessary. Constrain yourself. A good product has limitations. It doesnt just succumb to every temptation that comes along. Focus on what makes the product the product and only add features if you get clear signs that it is needed. Most users will have to learn your product anyway so dont try to impress them with features that might be cool but that is simply not elemental to your success. I-Tunes have many flaws, Basecamp from 37Signals leaves a lot to be asked for, but when all is said and done, their products are rock solid and there is no feature like the solid feature. 5. Dont do usability tests or focus groups. I could write a whole book about why usability test and focus groups are bad for you and your customers but I wont. Instead I will offer the following few observations. Most products are fairly simple and most of the testing can be done in house. Most usability tests are not even close to reflect any realistic version of the environment your product will end up in. The mistakes that you might find are not going to be those that will determine the success of your company. Many usability tests consist of max 10 people which is simply not a significantly high enough number to make any decisions based on. The single best solution is to start simple simple and make sure you can measure how people use your product. If people are having problems you will find out soon enough and you will find out where it matters. 6. Think how, not what The feature war is over, actually its been for a long time. So much can be gained from thinking about how to make the features that you have stand out and ad value. If you can solve it on the back-end then do it. When I started working on the Nasdaq Market Replay application I soon realized (as most people probably did) that market data is kind of like a sound sample. Once that insight was made we approached stock info like we would music. This meant that you could trim your stock sample and replay it like a piece of music. http://www.adobe.com/resources/business/rich_internet_apps/?ogn=EN_US-gntray_sol_ria#nasdaq Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
Anthropology and psychology are great for finding out the problems that needs to be addressed it does not transcend into the actual design of the product/service. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why isn't the OS a browser?
The OS is not a browser because the browser has a different purpose than the OS. It's not that they couldn't be the same, but it wouldn't make any real difference. The browser still needs some OS layer (Network connection, TCP-IP protocol understanding, Hardware integration etc) The real question IMHO is why isn't the browser metaphor used more clearly in the OS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45492 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Why isn't the OS a browser?
The one thing that separate the browsers use of metaphors from the desktops is the focus on relation between different elements. If i point my fileexplorer to the Library folder which consist of more than 40.000 ebooks, podcasts etc. I can find any book I want but they are not naturally related. If we for the purpose of this discussion simply upload those 40.000 books and podcasts and call them the internet, then the difference is that on the internet they would be filled with cross-references between each other. I read a little bit in one book and it has a link to another book that more explicitly explain something that my first book don't That is fundamentally the difference and a browser then utilizes something called history that we then on top of that use to browse back and forward through connection of the documents. So unless you can start to get that relationship going on your computer it wont make much sense to talk about the OS as a Browser or Vice-versa. They are as such the same but the OS even from a purely content point of view does not have the same interrelationship between the documents as they would have where the browser point to. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45492 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
It seems obvious from my point of view that UCD is not really useful. Usability tests, focus groups and so one are money making machines nothing more. Users can't help you make decisions so design should never be user centered. Design should be centered around problem solving. User can inform you on problems they have but that has nothing to do with UCD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] How trendy is UCD? Are we critical enough about it?
It wasn't ment as a joke, but it wasn't meant as some seem to suggest and I am generalizing of course. Let me put it another way. UCD seems to be a favorite of academics. On paper it looks good. You find some test subjects, you test for various tasks and you interpret that into some sort of report with recommendations for the client or your own company. But the problem is simply that you are still a far cry from having solved the real problems. Often you are just solving some pseudo problems inherrent in the nature of a prototype, the specification or the wireframes. The real problems wont show itself until you actually launch the product or service. THAT is where you need to do your (quantitative) user tests to see if people follow the paths you hope. Some designers focus to much on the aesthetics that is problematic to, they see themselves more as artists than problem solvers. Become an artist I say. But my experience from the last 14 years of working with Design/UX/IA/ID/Development is that the academics who can't actually design anything loves UCD because it helps them make the decisions their non-existent design background can't. Where as actual experienced designers (here i mean those who pushes the pixels around) And I have done my share of UCD, it just doesn't add any real value IMHO. It's a pseudo process used by those who lack the background/experience to make design decisions themselves. It solves Pseudo problems. Can you use it. Sure. Just don't expect to get a better result than that of any experienced designer not using UCD. Is user input valuable. Of course it is, very, it's as important than ever. Just not for the reasons that it's used by UCD. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=45486 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... disc...@ixda.org Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] UCD Broken? I say NO
Well I agree to a certain extent if it wasn't exactly that this is the problem of UCD. It does not really go outside it's own premises to integrate as a part of a process, but claim to be the verification point of the process. I was taught a very simple thing when I studied design. Design is a decision. In other words you need to make good decisions in order to create good design. What constitutes a good decisions is a different story all together and UCD does not really look at that. Instead it caters although maybe unintentionally to a wisdom of the crowds aesthetic WITHOUT including the knowledge already accumulated by many years of knowledge from the designers. The crowds is not wrong because they are the users of your product, design, platform, interface whatever you wanna call it so you end up with UCD being percieved as the most objective way to validate your product. UCD would make sense to a certain extent if it was applied correctly I agree, but it never is and never will be because of the nature of how projects that utilizes on it are done today. Also many of the people who uses UCD have an academic background and have never actually done any nity gritty design themselves which add further to the problem of the whole area. Academic people will most often have a much more strategically important position than the designers and will therefore be the people translating and verifying the actual design through these processes up against the clients. UCD basically most often makes no sense other than from an economic and political point of view (the agency doing it can make money since they are selling it as yet another component and the client will have secured themselves from any punishment from upper management by being able to claim that it was based around UCD) UCD should IMHO if anything be something you use AFTER the launch to alter your product based on the input. This is where the input is valuable and the feedback can be used to make decisions. But at the current state it ads no value but basically simply just is a proof that many companies don't really dare making decisions and dare I say fail. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31098 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] Should persuasion be left to marketers?
Good products sell themselves. So the better a company is at creating any given product or service with as much thinking around those small subtle points already in the conceptual stage the better. Copy-writing should be at least something that you have an opinion about even more so how to help the marketeer simplify his/her messaging which I guess is as much an information design skill. For instance if a bullet point paragraph contains two different points maybe it is better to actually create two bullet points. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31083 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
Re: [IxDA Discuss] IxDA Discussion Is UCD Really Broken?
Sorry for the seperate thread, the reply functionality was down for maintainance and I was urged to simple write an email. I even put in the actual name of the thread with the hope that they would put it in there. Anyway... The discussion is principal and have some rather large implications on how we work with our clients or with management. How often haven't we been fighting with clients who read a book, are biased because they went to some lecture where UCD was preached or read an article about the beauty of UCD. I have at least and is now very upfront with my clients about the principles we design by so we can manage expectations. User input is valuable when acumulated, but this idea that seem have spread that the specific input given by specific users on a given project is sick in it's core and should be stopped before it brings the entire field in jeopardy of being a joke. Just look at how long it took to actually pursuade clients to look at Jakob Nielsens writings as part of the equation not THE equation. Maybe I am alone on feeling like this, but never the less it affects me so I need to react. On a more constructive note let me recommend two great books. One is Clayton Christensen The Innovator's Dilemma and What Customers Want - Using Outcome-driven Innovation to Create Breakthrough Products and Services by Anthony Ulwick. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Posted from the new ixda.org http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=31068 Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
[IxDA Discuss] IxDA Discussion Is UCD Really Broken?
Id say yes UCD is broken and have always been. Personally I close to hate everything about that approach. The reason why it's broken is manifold, but primarily the problem is that most people who are proponents of it is either managers who are trying to find a way to secure their position against upper management (well we did ask the users) and that very few have any idea of how to translate the findings from a bunch of people into something useful. I always found it laughable when so called usability experts did usability studies. Instead of looking at something like that to be a test of overarching principles it becomes the actual bedrock of the design process. The findings from any research does not translate itself in a one to one relations with any conclusion. Yet in UCD it seems to be the case. The fields basic principles are not wrong as such but the weight it has been given and the way it is performed is both to wide and to unimaginative. Thomas Petersen HelloBrand Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)! To post to this list ... [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe List Guidelines http://www.ixda.org/guidelines List Help .. http://www.ixda.org/help
