[ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback. Starting a project. And, as I've discussed my coding abilities with people I meet they are continuously giving me looks of bewildering and beguiling amusement. Not talking about any Dick and Jane. I'm talking about folks from the ATDC, other entrepreneurs, coders. Whenever I say that I use CF, they act like someone just stepped out from the stone age. And, I don't care - that's their problem. I make money from my skills and can handle 500k page views a day without breaking a sweat in my applications and sleep well knowing I have no errors. But, their lack of understanding that CF even still exists baffles me. It seems that people believe that the only web language that exists now is PHP and possibly, Ruby (ergo, PHP). (Hey, Bank of America is running CF. Maybe that's not a selling point?) But on this new project, the folks say we need to do it in PHP so that it can be sold off if the project works. Ok. Fine, I get that - I really, really do and I'm actually in favor of it because I don't want a pissing contest at that future point. But I'm not coding it in PHP. No such fracking way. I'll help, offer guidance on DB design, help you translate CF code to PHP if you want. Whatever. And yet, these people keep saying, Hey, it's easier for you to learn PHP if you know CF, than for me to learn CF as a PHP developer. That makes no sense to me. On one code example (in PHP), the database connection was established on line 13 in the file$con = mysql_connect(db/id/pw) and then the connection was not closed until line 92 mysql_close($con); Within those 80 lines of code, they did 2 http calls to external web services, created two arrays, threw in 40 lines of comments and then somewhere in the bottom, finally made a SQL statement. WT-Flying-Frack Is this what people accept? Granted, this was by someone who admittedly said, they were a horrible developer - but then in the same breath asked me why this would be a problem and I kind of stood there looking like I'd been hit by a bat. I've never been shy about not being a university trained developer. But I've worked with database design since 1993, and with CF for over 12 years. So, hey, cut me some slack. I know I can't give you the lingo about why an 80 line database connection is bad in pure technical terms, but I damn well know that the faster, cleaner, shorter you make your database calls, the better off you are for so many reasons. So, here's the question(s). How do you explain to someone the basic core ideas behind CF and PHP. PHP is an Apache module. CF runs on a java servlet or on Jrun, Tomcat, etc. I'm honestly not the best to explain it. But I've seen the performance side, and it's good. And I've seen the code bloat in PHP files and it's bad. Yeah, I know anyone in any language can write bad code. But damn if PHP doesn't seem to be full of it. An ATDC person asked me if CF was an interpreted language. I said yes. And then he acted as if the argument was done because so is PHP. And so, that means what?... Therefore the two are the same and equal? Ergo, you go open source because everything thinks thats best? Bad argument. How do you explain to someone the technical idea behind something like CF? How do you explain that even in writing a PHP page that no one but you will ever use, that you don't do an 80 line open database connection call unless it's 80 lines of SQL and then, that's a whole other issue? _ Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.com 404-786-5036 “Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” -Steve Jobs
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
My opinion answers : How do you explain to someone the basic core ideas behind CF and PHP. PHP is an Apache module. CF runs on a java servlet or on Jrun, Tomcat, etc. I'm honestly not the best to explain it. But I've seen the performance side, and it's good. And I've seen the code bloat in PHP files and it's bad. Yeah, I know anyone in any language can write bad code. But damn if PHP doesn't seem to be full of it. CF gives the ability to develop all kinds of applications faster and much easier way. Both were meant for Web Development and both do its job. Its matter of preference. Someone cannot put CF down just because He likes PHP. Like you said, CF has solid background since its Java based and because of that sky is the limit for CF. You can develop all kinds of applications. Biggest plus is you can develop applications way faster in CF compared to other languages out there. I can say without any doubt that programmers will continue to write bad code and it has nothing to do with CF, PHP, .NET, Java or any language. An ATDC person asked me if CF was an interpreted language. I said yes. And then he acted as if the argument was done because so is PHP. And so, that means what?... Therefore the two are the same and equal? Ergo, you go open source because everything thinks thats best? Bad argument. I would say that since CF pages are basically compiled as Java Classes in background, its more of a compiled language. Experts feel free to correct me here. I am sure PHP is not compiled. Even if experts dont agree on the term *compiled* here, I would still sell CF with strong argument that its basically Java Classes and what it means is you can use your own java classes when needed. You can use any java api if you like. Thats huge. I repeat again, if you havent explored this area of CF, you are missing a trick. Of course, you dont have to use java but if there is a need, go for it. Needless to say, this would involve testing as well because you need to look at version etc. :-) How do you explain to someone the technical idea behind something like CF? I love this questions. I have my reasons a. CF is a rapid application development. Like you said, instead of writing 80 lines for something, we CFers do it in mayb 5 lines or so. :-) b. CF is based of well known, stable, and universally accepted language Java. c. There are so many functions available to do common tasks. d. When the task demands more, you can always go to Java to *extend* your application. Personally, to me, thats a huge plus. I can do anything with CF by using Java's power when needed. Similary, I am sure you can interact with .NET when needed. I am sure, its not easier in other languages to interact with another language or program. Big plus for CF on this one. e. Easy to learn since the language resembles html tag style f. Action Script available for people coming from JavaScripting background. g. Huge plus for people coming from Java background. They can take CF applications to another level with their Java Experience. h. Several tools available for performance, monitoring etc for CF i. Can deploy application as easy as web pages or j2ee application i.e. war file j. Can deploy application on most of the web servers out there IIS, WebSphere, JBoss, Tomcat etc. k. With CF9 even more support for things like ORM. Java guys simply love Hibernate which is the model on which CF's ORM is based. l. Last but not the least, several experts available to help out with issues or problems or open source projects. How do you explain that even in writing a PHP page that no one but you will ever use, that you don't do an 80 line open database connection call unless it's 80 lines of SQL and then, that's a whole other issue? With CF you reduce development time considerably by not worrying about small things like data connection etc. Just one administrator setting and you have a dsn. :-) Like I said, just my opinion. I can sleep well tonight having mentioned the technical idea behind CF. ;-) Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.comwrote: *I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback.* Starting a project. And, as I've discussed my coding abilities with people I meet they are continuously giving me looks of bewildering and beguiling amusement. Not talking about any Dick and Jane. I'm talking about folks from the ATDC, other entrepreneurs, coders. Whenever I say that I use CF, they act like someone just stepped out from the stone age. And, I don't care - that's their problem. I make money from
[ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Hi, Our trial of CF 9 enterprise is about to expire. So, I wanted to get opinion of people who are familiar with this scenario or who have already made purchase of CF 9 enterprise license which allows to use a development enterprise license free of cost for your development/test server. Does Adobe provide a separate key for development enterprise license or do I need to ask them for one? Is the purchase of CF 9 Enterprise license necessary to get the free development enterprise edition of CF 9? We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. Please clarify. Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives.
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
Why not code it in PHP? I've done some PHP, it's pretty slick, free and popular. It will give you the chance to learn something new and make yourself more marketable. I work with CF mostly, but won't hesitate to take a job doing something else. There are a limited number of CF jobs available, broaden your horizons. It's a language, not a cult. Les On 7/9/2010 11:48 AM, Derrick Peavy wrote: I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback. Starting a project. And, as I've discussed my coding abilities with people I meet they are continuously giving me looks of bewildering and beguiling amusement. Not talking about any Dick and Jane. I'm talking about folks from the ATDC, other entrepreneurs, coders. Whenever I say that I use CF, they act like someone just stepped out from the stone age. And, I don't care - that's their problem. I make money from my skills and can handle 500k page views a day without breaking a sweat in my applications and sleep well knowing I have no errors. But, their lack of understanding that CF even still exists baffles me. It seems that people believe that the only web language that exists now is PHP and possibly, Ruby (ergo, PHP). (Hey, Bank of America is running CF. Maybe that's not a selling point?) But on this new project, the folks say we need to do it in PHP so that it can be sold off if the project works. Ok. Fine, I get that - I really, really do and I'm actually in favor of it because I don't want a pissing contest at that future point. But I'm not coding it in PHP. No such fracking way. I'll help, offer guidance on DB design, help you translate CF code to PHP if you want. Whatever. And yet, these people keep saying, "Hey, it's easier for you to learn PHP if you know CF, than for me to learn CF as a PHP developer." That makes no sense to me. On one code example (in PHP), the database connection was established on line 13 in the file $con = mysql_connect(db/id/pw) and then the connection was not closed until line 92 mysql_close($con); Within those 80 lines of code, they did 2 http calls to external web services, created two arrays, threw in 40 lines of comments and then somewhere in the bottom, finally made a SQL statement. WT-Flying-Frack Is this what people accept? Granted, this was by someone who admittedly said, they were a horrible developer - but then in the same breath asked me why this would be a problem and I kind of stood there looking like I'd been hit by a bat. I've never been shy about not being a university trained developer. But I've worked with database design since 1993, and with CF for over 12 years. So, hey, cut me some slack. I know I can't give you the lingo about why an 80 line database connection is bad in pure technical terms, but I damn well know that the faster, cleaner, shorter you make your database calls, the better off you are for so many reasons. So, here's the question(s). How do you explain to someone the basic core ideas behind CF and PHP. PHP is an Apache module. CF runs on a java servlet or on Jrun, Tomcat, etc. I'm honestly not the best to explain it. But I've seen the performance side, and it's good. And I've seen the code bloat in PHP files and it's bad. Yeah, I know anyone in any language can write bad code. But damn if PHP doesn't seem to be full of it. An ATDC person asked me if CF was an interpreted language. I said yes. And then he acted as if the argument was done because so is PHP. And so, that means what?... Therefore the two are the same and equal? Ergo, you go open source because everything thinks thats best? Bad argument. How do you explain to someone the technical idea behind something like CF? How do you explain that even in writing a PHP page that no one but you will ever use, that you don't do an 80 line open database connection call unless it's 80 lines of SQL and then, that's a whole other issue? _ Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.com 404-786-5036 “Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” -Steve Jobs -To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserformFor more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglistsArchive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com-
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
The new EULA that comes with CF9 allows you to use the same license key for development and QA servers that you would on the production server. Sounds like you might only need 1 ent license because of the new EULA changes. That's not to be confused with the developer license which is and has been free. Simply let the trial expire with a license and it becomes a developer edition which allows only 2 ips and the local address to access the instance. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:09 PM, Ajas Mohammed wrote: Hi, Our trial of CF 9 enterprise is about to expire. So, I wanted to get opinion of people who are familiar with this scenario or who have already made purchase of CF 9 enterprise license which allows to use a development enterprise license free of cost for your development/test server. Does Adobe provide a separate key for development enterprise license or do I need to ask them for one? Is the purchase of CF 9 Enterprise license necessary to get the free development enterprise edition of CF 9? We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. Please clarify. Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
You should learn and understand other languages like PHP. Polygot programming will make you a better programmer overall. That being said, there are plenty of CF jobs from what I'm seeing and in fact the typical CF positions are higher paying from the PHP side, because there are fewer of us. PHP seems a bit over populated right now. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:13 PM, Les wrote: Why not code it in PHP? I've done some PHP, it's pretty slick, free and popular. It will give you the chance to learn something new and make yourself more marketable. I work with CF mostly, but won't hesitate to take a job doing something else. There are a limited number of CF jobs available, broaden your horizons. It's a language, not a cult. Les On 7/9/2010 11:48 AM, Derrick Peavy wrote: *I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback.* Starting a project. And, as I've discussed my coding abilities with people I meet they are continuously giving me looks of bewildering and beguiling amusement. Not talking about any Dick and Jane. I'm talking about folks from the ATDC, other entrepreneurs, coders. Whenever I say that I use CF, they act like someone just stepped out from the stone age. And, I don't care - that's their problem. I make money from my skills and can handle 500k page views a day without breaking a sweat in my applications and sleep well knowing I have no errors. But, their lack of understanding that CF even still exists baffles me. It seems that people believe that the only web language that exists now is PHP and possibly, Ruby (ergo, PHP). (Hey, Bank of America is running CF. Maybe that's not a selling point?) But on this new project, the folks say we need to do it in PHP so that it can be sold off if the project works. Ok. Fine, I get that - I really, really do and I'm actually in favor of it because I don't want a pissing contest at that future point. But I'm not coding it in PHP. No such fracking way. I'll help, offer guidance on DB design, help you translate CF code to PHP if you want. Whatever. And yet, these people keep saying, Hey, it's easier for you to learn PHP if you know CF, than for me to learn CF as a PHP developer. That makes no sense to me. On one code example (in PHP), the database connection was established on line 13 in the file /$con = mysql_connect(db/id/pw) /and then the connection was not closed until line 92 /mysql_close($con); / Within those 80 lines of code, they did 2 http calls to external web services, created two arrays, threw in 40 lines of comments and then somewhere in the bottom, finally made a SQL statement. *WT-Flying-Frack* * * Is this what people accept? Granted, this was by someone who admittedly said, they were a horrible developer - but then in the same breath asked me why this would be a problem and I kind of stood there looking like I'd been hit by a bat. I've never been shy about not being a university trained developer. But I've worked with database design since 1993, and with CF for over 12 years. So, hey, cut me some slack. I know I can't give you the lingo about why an 80 line database connection is bad in pure technical terms, but I damn well know that the faster, cleaner, shorter you make your database calls, the better off you are for so many reasons. So, here's the question(s). How do you explain to someone the basic core ideas behind CF and PHP. PHP is an Apache module. CF runs on a java servlet or on Jrun, Tomcat, etc. I'm honestly not the best to explain it. But I've seen the performance side, and it's good. And I've seen the code bloat in PHP files and it's bad. Yeah, I know anyone in any language can write bad code. But damn if PHP doesn't seem to be full of it. An ATDC person asked me if CF was an interpreted language. I said yes. And then he acted as if the argument was done because so is PHP. And so, that means what?... Therefore the two are the same and equal? Ergo, you go open source because everything thinks thats best? Bad argument. How do you explain to someone the technical idea behind something like CF? How do you explain that even in writing a PHP page that no one but you will ever use, that you don't do an 80 line open database connection call unless it's 80 lines of SQL and then, that's a whole other issue? * _ Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.commailto:derr...@derrickpeavy.com 404-786-5036 “Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” -Steve Jobs * * * - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and-development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 4:14 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license The new EULA that comes with CF9 allows you to use the same license key for development and QA servers that you would on the production server. Sounds like you might only need 1 ent license because of the new EULA changes. That's not to be confused with the developer license which is and has been free. Simply let the trial expire with a license and it becomes a developer edition which allows only 2 ips and the local address to access the instance. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:09 PM, Ajas Mohammed wrote: Hi, Our trial of CF 9 enterprise is about to expire. So, I wanted to get opinion of people who are familiar with this scenario or who have already made purchase of CF 9 enterprise license which allows to use a development enterprise license free of cost for your development/test server. Does Adobe provide a separate key for development enterprise license or do I need to ask them for one? Is the purchase of CF 9 Enterprise license necessary to get the free development enterprise edition of CF 9? We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. Please clarify. Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Well that and it depends on if they're using virtualization. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:53 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and-development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 4:14 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license The new EULA that comes with CF9 allows you to use the same license key for development and QA servers that you would on the production server. Sounds like you might only need 1 ent license because of the new EULA changes. That's not to be confused with the developer license which is and has been free. Simply let the trial expire with a license and it becomes a developer edition which allows only 2 ips and the local address to access the instance. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:09 PM, Ajas Mohammed wrote: Hi, Our trial of CF 9 enterprise is about to expire. So, I wanted to get opinion of people who are familiar with this scenario or who have already made purchase of CF 9 enterprise license which allows to use a development enterprise license free of cost for your development/test server. Does Adobe provide a separate key for development enterprise license or do I need to ask them for one? Is the purchase of CF 9 Enterprise license necessary to get the free development enterprise edition of CF 9? We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. Please clarify. Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Good point. I thought twice about adding the link to Terry's other blog entry that addressed that (a bit). Should have thought a third time. :-) Here it is: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-eula-changes /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Well that and it depends on if they're using virtualization. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:53 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and- development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
As a customer, I really love these new EULA changes for obvious reasons, but I do wonder what they were thinking when they did this. It's going to a very real impact on their bottom line in the number of licenses they'll sell. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 5:30 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Good point. I thought twice about adding the link to Terry's other blog entry that addressed that (a bit). Should have thought a third time. :-) Here it is: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-eula-changes /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Well that and it depends on if they're using virtualization. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:53 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and- development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Thanks Charlie and John. To clarify, we have 3 production enterprise CF 7 licenses and 1 enterprise CF 7 license on dev/QA server. So total of 4 licenses. Yes, I am familiar with local Developer edition setup and thats how I develop i.e. locally on my workstation. I am very happy with that. :-) We have trial of Enterprise CF9 setup on our main dev/QA server and I thought I will ask first before buying the upgrade Enterprise CF9 license. From the discussion, looks like we have to buy 1 license at least as there is no other way to extend the trial. Thanks, Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.orgwrote: Good point. I thought twice about adding the link to Terry's other blog entry that addressed that (a bit). Should have thought a third time. :-) Here it is: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-eula-changes /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Well that and it depends on if they're using virtualization. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:53 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and- development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Well that's true, yes, though technically you could install CF9 on another of the boxes (as I assume you have one for each of the 3 prod licenses), to that will get you another 60 days. :-) /charlie From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Ajas Mohammed Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:56 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Thanks Charlie and John. To clarify, we have 3 production enterprise CF 7 licenses and 1 enterprise CF 7 license on dev/QA server. So total of 4 licenses. Yes, I am familiar with local Developer edition setup and thats how I develop i.e. locally on my workstation. I am very happy with that. :-) We have trial of Enterprise CF9 setup on our main dev/QA server and I thought I will ask first before buying the upgrade Enterprise CF9 license. From the discussion, looks like we have to buy 1 license at least as there is no other way to extend the trial. Thanks, Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.org wrote: Good point. I thought twice about adding the link to Terry's other blog entry that addressed that (a bit). Should have thought a third time. :-) Here it is: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-eula-changes /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Well that and it depends on if they're using virtualization. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:53 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and- development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com - - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
Well, this one test server is the main QA/Test server which is accessed by clients as well, so we want this QA/Test server to have CF 9 for now so we can continue our testing. We dont plan to go CF 9 in production until we are done with complete testing on this particular QA/Test Server.So in other words, we cannot afford to have fresh trial on other servers to get extra 60 days. Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.orgwrote: Well that’s true, yes, though technically you could install CF9 on another of the boxes (as I assume you have one for each of the 3 prod licenses), to that will get you another 60 days. :-) /charlie *From:* ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] *On Behalf Of *Ajas Mohammed *Sent:* Friday, July 09, 2010 5:56 PM *To:* discussion@acfug.org *Subject:* Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Thanks Charlie and John. To clarify, we have 3 production enterprise CF 7 licenses and 1 enterprise CF 7 license on dev/QA server. So total of 4 licenses. Yes, I am familiar with local Developer edition setup and thats how I develop i.e. locally on my workstation. I am very happy with that. :-) We have trial of Enterprise CF9 setup on our main dev/QA server and I thought I will ask first before buying the upgrade Enterprise CF9 license. From the discussion, looks like we have to buy 1 license at least as there is no other way to extend the trial. Thanks, Ajas Mohammed / http://ajashadi.blogspot.com We cannot become what we need to be, remaining what we are. No matter what, find a way. Because thats what winners do. You can't improve what you don't measure. Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Charlie Arehart char...@carehart.org wrote: Good point. I thought twice about adding the link to Terry's other blog entry that addressed that (a bit). Should have thought a third time. :-) Here it is: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-eula-changes /charlie -Original Message- From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of John Mason Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 5:03 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Well that and it depends on if they're using virtualization. John ma...@fusionlink.com On 7/9/10 4:53 PM, Charlie Arehart wrote: Well, to be clear, you say he may need only one CF 9 Enterprise license, but would that be because you're assuming the other 2 he owns are for test only? He doesn't quite say that, as far as I see. He said: We already have about 3 ColdFusion 7 enterprise licenses and this would be an upgrade. I am not sure how to proceed since we want CF 9 only in development for now as we are testing. Like I said, our trial expires soon. It's not clear from that if all 3 cf7 ent licenses are used in production. But yes, if perhaps only 1 was, the other two were for test only, then yes he can get by with 1. But I'd be surprised to hear of someone paying for 3 enterprise license and using 2 in test and 1 in prod. :-) Sure, it could happen (test, staging, production), but that seems rare. So I just wanted to get clarification before Ajas makes a mistaken conclusion. But yes, as for pure development (single server, only a couple of users), you don't even need to buy a CF9 license. That's indeed where the free Dev edition can suffice. One last point of clarification for Ajas (or others): only with purchase of CF9 do you get the privilege to run its license in a test/staging server. There's no grandfathering of 8, 7, etc. For more on all this, see this blog entry from Terry Ryan: http://www.terrenceryan.com/blog/post.cfm/coldfusion-9-testing-staging-and- development -changes-to-eula See also especially all the comment that followed. /charlie - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
RE: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license
So you mean that someone is averse to doing the testing on a box that is used for production, right? As a preference? I'm just clarifying that technically, one could do such testing on a new implementation of CF9 on a box already running CF 8. They are unconnected to each other (you don't need to uninstall CF8 to install CF9. They can run at the same time.) Assuming that there are reasonable resources on the box, running two instances of CF at once shouldn't be a huge deal (heck, some people intentionally run more than one copy of CF at a time when using multiple instances, so it's really no different.) And you could create a test web site on the IIS of the prod server that would point to this trial CF implementation (whether server or multiserver). But sure, I understand that someone may have a purist perspective who'd say, no, we're not doing any testing on a prod box. I could understand that if there was some known experience of your testing somehow bringing a box to its knees, but often testing is pretty lightweight. It's their call, of course. I was just pointing out another solution to your dilemma of a trial having run out on one of the boxes. /charlie From: ad...@acfug.org [mailto:ad...@acfug.org] On Behalf Of Ajas Mohammed Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:23 PM To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: Re: [ACFUG Discuss] CF 9 enterprise license plus free development license Well, this one test server is the main QA/Test server which is accessed by clients as well, so we want this QA/Test server to have CF 9 for now so we can continue our testing. We dont plan to go CF 9 in production until we are done with complete testing on this particular QA/Test Server.So in other words, we cannot afford to have fresh trial on other servers to get extra 60 days. Ajas Mohammed / - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:48 AM, Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.com wrote: I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback. I've seen a ton of folks go through this on various mailing lists. Here's my take... PHP is not a bad language, CF is not a bad language. Performance, scale, lines of code, beautiful code - a PHP ninja can beat the crap out of a CF newbie and a CF ninja can beat the crap out of a PHP newbie. If you have a team of 5 ColdFusion developers, build in CF. If you have a team of 5 PHP developers, build in PHP. If you have a team of 5 PERL programmers, If you chose the technology before you hire the developers, hire developers who know the technology. Here's the tough love - I think you have three choices: 1) Change their mind 2) Learn PHP 3) Find another project I really don't think any of the 3 choices are bad but it sounds like #1 might already be off the table. If it's not, perhaps someone on the list can help you convince them that CF is an okay solution, but I'm not sure that's the best solution. Think about option 2 and 3, they might be an okay career move too. If you want to bounce more idea of some CF and PHP developers, I know that at least one PHP developer and at least one CF developer will be at the Tech Nosh lunch next Thursday. Come out and chat with everyone, bring the ATDC folks if you want... -Cameron -- Cameron Childress Sumo Consulting Inc http://www.sumoc.com --- cell: 678.637.5072 aim: cameroncf email: camer...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe from this list, manage your profile @ http://www.acfug.org?fa=login.edituserform For more info, see http://www.acfug.org/mailinglists Archive @ http://www.mail-archive.com/discussion%40acfug.org/ List hosted by http://www.fusionlink.com -
Re: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback.
Thank you all for the responses. And to John Mason and Ajas Mohammed for clarifying some technical issues in a way that I can translate to others. Want to add a couple of things. First, I may eventually pick up some php. But not so much for this project. Second, the project is a start up that I am actually heading (1 of 2 leaders). I actually feel it DOES need to be in PHP simply because it solves an issue later on in any investment round. That might sound like a crazy thing, but it's about checking as many boxes as possible in the event if future investment. Finally, if I narrow this down, I would refine my question as follows: How do you explain to someone who writes PHP ( in this example) why their code (which I can read), is krap. They don't want to take my word since I don't do PHP. But krap is krap and you can see it if you have experience in either code base. ___ Derrick Peavy Sent from my iPhone ___ On Jul 9, 2010, at 15:56, Todd Hartle tallt...@hotmail.com wrote: I've found when it comes to programming languages it's like discussing politics or religion; you're just not going to convince anyone that doesn't already get it. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2010, at 2:16 PM, Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.com wrote: Yea, I agree with that. If it's not my business or my project, then yeah, I agree doing it in whatever is maintainable by the greatest number of developers. No interest in trying to talk anyone in the project into CF. No way. Just wondering how you explain to someone the technical merits and how the two interpreted languages actually vary at the execution level. And then secondly, how to explain to someone who has done or does PHP, why their code (which I can read), is krap. They don't want to take my word since I don't do PHP. But krap is krap and you can smell it if you have experience in either code base. _ Derrick Peavy derr...@derrickpeavy.com 404-786-5036 “Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” - Steve Jobs On Jul 9, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Todd Hartle wrote: Language is usually immaterial so use what you know. I'm an old CF die hard myself even though I don't code much these days. In terms of PHP etc, part of the problem is that finding good CF people is getting harder and harder as other language become more popular. So based on technical merits either CF or PHP would do the job but if something is being sold off finding people to maintain the system may then indeed be a factor. From: derr...@derrickpeavy.com To: discussion@acfug.org Subject: [ACFUG Discuss] I find myself where I have tried to avoid going. A short rant and then a question. Would love some feedback. Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:48:45 -0400 I know this is kind of long and winding, but I'd love some feedback. Starting a project. And, as I've discussed my coding abilities with people I meet they are continuously giving me looks of bewildering and beguiling amusement. Not talking about any Dick and Jane. I'm talking about folks from the ATDC, other entrepreneurs, coders. Whenever I say that I use CF, they act like someone just stepped out from the stone age. And, I don't care - that's their problem. I make money from my skills and can handle 500k page views a day without breaking a sweat in my applications and sleep well knowing I have no errors. But, their lack of understanding that CF even still exists baffles me. It seems that people believe that the only web language that exists now is PHP and possibly, Ruby (ergo, PHP). (Hey, Bank of America is running CF. Maybe that's not a selling point?) But on this new project, the folks say we need to do it in PHP so that it can be sold off if the project works. Ok. Fine, I get that - I really, really do and I'm actually in favor of it because I don't want a pissing contest at that future point. But I'm not coding it in PHP. No such fracking way. I'll help, offer guidance on DB design, help you translate CF code to PHP if you want. Whatever. And yet, these people keep saying, Hey, it's easier for you to learn PHP if you know CF, than for me to learn CF as a PHP developer. That makes no sense to me. On one code example (in PHP), the database connection was established on line 13 in the file$con = mysql_connect(db/ id/pw)and then the connection was not closed until line 92 mysql_close($con); Within those 80 lines of code, they did 2 http calls to external web services, created two arrays, threw in 40 lines of comments and then somewhere in the bottom, finally made a SQL statement. WT-Flying-Frack Is this what people accept? Granted, this was by someone who admittedly said, they were a horrible developer - but then in the same breath asked me why this would be a problem and I kind of stood there looking
