Re: [Elecraft] Comparisons K3S/KX3/K2 etc?

[Phil Wheeler]

As a follow up it's interesting to speculate where 
this Icom-7300 would end up on the Sherwood chart. 
And how would it prevail in a strong-signal 
environment, like Field Day or an urban area like 
the one I'm in? Based on what I've seen it will be 
OK for casual operating and SDR "dabbling", but 
not for serious operators who contest, work DX or 
want to play at Field Day. For those uses the 
K3/K3S will blow it away.


In fact, given the KX3 design, I wonder how it and 
the Icom-7300 will stack up against one another.


It will be interesting to see some IC-7300 numbers 
-- including the price!


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/3/15 7:59 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
All three are on this Rob Sherwood chart, Curt: 
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/3/15 6:19 AM, Curt wrote:
I hadn't been paying too much attention, guess 
the K3 has been replaced by the K3S.  Owning a 
K2/100, am thinking about an "upgrade".  Is 
there a simple chart comparing the attributes 
of these three radios?  Looking at the receiver 
comparison charts on Elecraft site, am not 
seeing the KX3 listed.


72, Curt KB5JO


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Re: [Elecraft] Comparisons K3S/KX3/K2 etc?

[Phil Wheeler]

All three are on this Rob Sherwood chart, Curt: 
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/3/15 6:19 AM, Curt wrote:
I hadn't been paying too much attention, guess 
the K3 has been replaced by the K3S.  Owning a 
K2/100, am thinking about an "upgrade".  Is 
there a simple chart comparing the attributes of 
these three radios?  Looking at the receiver 
comparison charts on Elecraft site, am not 
seeing the KX3 listed.


72, Curt KB5JO


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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Richard Solomon]

When did this morph into the ICOM reflector ?? Did I not get the memo ???

73, Dick, W1KSZ

On 9/3/2015 7:25 AM, brian wrote:
It is may be time to rethink the display.  The functionality added 
through the years has resulted in display of certain settings is 
pretty obscure (e.g. flashing decimal point is supposed to mean 
something)


The difficulty may be display size constraints.   Lacking a bigger 
display, it would mean even smaller letters et al.   That isn't a good 
idea.   Given the creativity of Elecraft engineers, perhaps the 
current display size could still work.


73 de Brian/K3KO



On 9/3/2015 13:57 PM, Chris Hallinan wrote:
I'll add my $0.02.  I'm not a huge fan of touch screen for the same 
reasons
John mentions.  However, I would surely welcome a more modern color 
screen
on my K3.  Maybe even a few programmable touch buttons in a similar 
fashion

to the buttons across the bottom of the P3.

Hey, we all bought into the Elecraft performance story, and voted 
with our

dollars.  But who wouldn't want a more modern look and feel, which by
definition means a color graphics screen. That sentiment has been echoed
before on this list, and I'm a newbie here, less than a year.

Here's a crazy idea: Take the P3 display and put it into the K3.  And 
then
I wouldn't have to purchase a separate unit just for a panadapter.  I 
bet
I'm not alone when I say my operating space has much competition for 
prime

desktop real estate!!!  The idea of a separate standalone panadapter is
pretty "old school" ;)  What modern high performance rig doesn't have 
one

built in?  Don't bash me on that, I voted with my $$$, I'm a proud K3/P3
owner.  But I can have a wish list, can't I?  ;)

-Chris
K1AY

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:06 AM, John Fritze  
wrote:


While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, 
my main
complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils. Yes I can 
wipe

it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an Ipad and a
Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always the best
solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun or 
incandescent

light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full of smudges.

--
John Fritze Jr
K2QY
k...@arrl.net
ACACES president 2014
ARES ENY DEC Northern District
Hudson Div. Asst. Director
Twitter: @k2qy
401 261 4996 (cell)
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Jerry Moore]

Since we're adding our $0.02 I'll add mine as a "soon to be K3S owner".
1. Simple and efficient interface was part of my decision.
2. Although the rig lacks band switches, it has function buttons that
support limited macro's to set band/mode/other which fits 99.99% needs for
anyone who will RTFM and utilize it.
3. While integrating the P3 would be nice it adds $700 to an already premium
feature /cost rig. I'm purchasing incrementally so I'd find it unacceptable
to have a large blank space on my radio if /until I decided to purchase the
P3.
4. My background is Electronics/Computers and I currently work as a Systems
Analyst ($4 dollar way of saying really high level support engineer).
"Modern" isn't always better in my view. There are MANY more modern looking
rigs that don't perform at the level of the K3S in my opinion. I'd rather
put $4 into performance, support, and upgradability, than $2 into
pretty/modern looking. The point being the more complex the system the more
likely to fail and higher expense.


Here's a crazy idea if you want modern with touch screen. Get a
tablet(windows) with rig control software. That will give you the bleeding
edge technology with full touch screen control. 

Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's time to
get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.

Not intentionally bashing anyone. Just  my $0.02.

Jer

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Chris
Hallinan
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:57 AM
To: John Fritze
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

I'll add my $0.02.  I'm not a huge fan of touch screen for the same reasons
John mentions.  However, I would surely welcome a more modern color screen
on my K3.  Maybe even a few programmable touch buttons in a similar fashion
to the buttons across the bottom of the P3.

Hey, we all bought into the Elecraft performance story, and voted with our
dollars.  But who wouldn't want a more modern look and feel, which by
definition means a color graphics screen. That sentiment has been echoed
before on this list, and I'm a newbie here, less than a year.

Here's a crazy idea: Take the P3 display and put it into the K3.  And then I
wouldn't have to purchase a separate unit just for a panadapter.  I bet I'm
not alone when I say my operating space has much competition for prime
desktop real estate!!!  The idea of a separate standalone panadapter is
pretty "old school" ;)  What modern high performance rig doesn't have one
built in?  Don't bash me on that, I voted with my $$$, I'm a proud K3/P3
owner.  But I can have a wish list, can't I?  ;)

-Chris
K1AY

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:06 AM, John Fritze  wrote:

> While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, my 
> main complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils.  Yes I 
> can wipe it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an 
> Ipad and a Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always 
> the best solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun 
> or incandescent light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full
of smudges.
>
> --
> John Fritze Jr
> K2QY
> k...@arrl.net
> ACACES president 2014
> ARES ENY DEC Northern District
> Hudson Div. Asst. Director
> Twitter: @k2qy
> 401 261 4996 (cell)
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
> challi...@gmail.com
>



--
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Phil Wheeler]

Re my statement "zero info on performance": Has 
anyone sorted out performance data from the charts 
here:


http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7300/default.aspx 
or in the pdf file linked here:


http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?Document=746

It's interesting to speculate where this Icom-7300 
would end up on the Sherwood chart. And how would 
it prevail in a strong-signal environment, like 
Field Day or an urban area like the one I'm in? 
Based on what I've seen it will be OK for casual 
operating and SDR "dabbling", but not for serious 
operators who contest, work DX or want to play at 
Field Day. For those uses the K3/K3S will blow it 
away.


In fact, given the KX3 SDR-based design, I wonder 
how it and the Icom-7300 will stack up against one 
another.


It will be interesting to see some IC-7300 numbers 
-- including the price!


73, Phil W7OX

p.s. -- like some others out there, a touch screen 
has no attraction for me. On cameras I usually 
disable that feature :-)


On 9/2/15 6:56 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

Cute, but likely not my cup of tea.

Plus, zero info on performance!

73, Phil W7OX

On 9/2/15 4:51 PM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
Icom recently released news about the upcoming 
IC-7300 
 
to be available by the end of the year.   A 
completely software-defined radio.  Looks like 
a real game-changer.
While the K3S is a nice upgrade, I think the 
tide is slowly shifting to touch sensitive, 
menu-driven, color displays.


I certainly hope the Elecraft is looking at 
this and considering its implications.



Doug -- K0DXV


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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[bs usb]

I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to it 
with the FT-991.
I have not found any performance tests on either one of these radios.  I 
might have to buy one and test it myself.

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Phil Hystad]

> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's time to
> get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.

DITTO!

73, phil, K7PEH



> On Sep 3, 2015, at 7:13 AM, Jerry Moore  wrote:
> 
> Since we're adding our $0.02 I'll add mine as a "soon to be K3S owner".
> 1. Simple and efficient interface was part of my decision.
> 2. Although the rig lacks band switches, it has function buttons that
> support limited macro's to set band/mode/other which fits 99.99% needs for
> anyone who will RTFM and utilize it.
> 3. While integrating the P3 would be nice it adds $700 to an already premium
> feature /cost rig. I'm purchasing incrementally so I'd find it unacceptable
> to have a large blank space on my radio if /until I decided to purchase the
> P3.
> 4. My background is Electronics/Computers and I currently work as a Systems
> Analyst ($4 dollar way of saying really high level support engineer).
> "Modern" isn't always better in my view. There are MANY more modern looking
> rigs that don't perform at the level of the K3S in my opinion. I'd rather
> put $4 into performance, support, and upgradability, than $2 into
> pretty/modern looking. The point being the more complex the system the more
> likely to fail and higher expense.
> 
> 
> Here's a crazy idea if you want modern with touch screen. Get a
> tablet(windows) with rig control software. That will give you the bleeding
> edge technology with full touch screen control. 
> 
> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's time to
> get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.
> 
> Not intentionally bashing anyone. Just  my $0.02.
> 
> Jer
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Chris
> Hallinan
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:57 AM
> To: John Fritze
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
> 
> I'll add my $0.02.  I'm not a huge fan of touch screen for the same reasons
> John mentions.  However, I would surely welcome a more modern color screen
> on my K3.  Maybe even a few programmable touch buttons in a similar fashion
> to the buttons across the bottom of the P3.
> 
> Hey, we all bought into the Elecraft performance story, and voted with our
> dollars.  But who wouldn't want a more modern look and feel, which by
> definition means a color graphics screen. That sentiment has been echoed
> before on this list, and I'm a newbie here, less than a year.
> 
> Here's a crazy idea: Take the P3 display and put it into the K3.  And then I
> wouldn't have to purchase a separate unit just for a panadapter.  I bet I'm
> not alone when I say my operating space has much competition for prime
> desktop real estate!!!  The idea of a separate standalone panadapter is
> pretty "old school" ;)  What modern high performance rig doesn't have one
> built in?  Don't bash me on that, I voted with my $$$, I'm a proud K3/P3
> owner.  But I can have a wish list, can't I?  ;)
> 
> -Chris
> K1AY
> 
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:06 AM, John Fritze  wrote:
> 
>> While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, my 
>> main complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils.  Yes I 
>> can wipe it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an 
>> Ipad and a Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always 
>> the best solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun 
>> or incandescent light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full
> of smudges.
>> 
>> --
>> John Fritze Jr
>> K2QY
>> k...@arrl.net
>> ACACES president 2014
>> ARES ENY DEC Northern District
>> Hudson Div. Asst. Director
>> Twitter: @k2qy
>> 401 261 4996 (cell)
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to 
>> challi...@gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Chris Hallinan]

I'll add my $0.02.  I'm not a huge fan of touch screen for the same reasons
John mentions.  However, I would surely welcome a more modern color screen
on my K3.  Maybe even a few programmable touch buttons in a similar fashion
to the buttons across the bottom of the P3.

Hey, we all bought into the Elecraft performance story, and voted with our
dollars.  But who wouldn't want a more modern look and feel, which by
definition means a color graphics screen. That sentiment has been echoed
before on this list, and I'm a newbie here, less than a year.

Here's a crazy idea: Take the P3 display and put it into the K3.  And then
I wouldn't have to purchase a separate unit just for a panadapter.  I bet
I'm not alone when I say my operating space has much competition for prime
desktop real estate!!!  The idea of a separate standalone panadapter is
pretty "old school" ;)  What modern high performance rig doesn't have one
built in?  Don't bash me on that, I voted with my $$$, I'm a proud K3/P3
owner.  But I can have a wish list, can't I?  ;)

-Chris
K1AY

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:06 AM, John Fritze  wrote:

> While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, my main
> complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils.  Yes I can wipe
> it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an Ipad and a
> Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always the best
> solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun or incandescent
> light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full of smudges.
>
> --
> John Fritze Jr
> K2QY
> k...@arrl.net
> ACACES president 2014
> ARES ENY DEC Northern District
> Hudson Div. Asst. Director
> Twitter: @k2qy
> 401 261 4996 (cell)
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to challi...@gmail.com
>



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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.

The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb  wrote:

>
> I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to it with
> the FT-991.
> I have not found any performance tests on either one of these radios.  I
> might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Jerry Moore]

On my reading/research on the 991, It's a good radio but the display/band
doesn't update as quickly or work the same as the P3 BASED ON MY READING.
Jerry

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of bs usb
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 11:25 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300


I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to it with
the FT-991.
I have not found any performance tests on either one of these radios.  I
might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[brian]

It is may be time to rethink the display.  The functionality added 
through the years has resulted in display of certain settings is pretty 
obscure (e.g. flashing decimal point is supposed to mean something)


The difficulty may be display size constraints.   Lacking a bigger 
display, it would mean even smaller letters et al.   That isn't a good 
idea.   Given the creativity of Elecraft engineers, perhaps the current 
display size could still work.


73 de Brian/K3KO



On 9/3/2015 13:57 PM, Chris Hallinan wrote:

I'll add my $0.02.  I'm not a huge fan of touch screen for the same reasons
John mentions.  However, I would surely welcome a more modern color screen
on my K3.  Maybe even a few programmable touch buttons in a similar fashion
to the buttons across the bottom of the P3.

Hey, we all bought into the Elecraft performance story, and voted with our
dollars.  But who wouldn't want a more modern look and feel, which by
definition means a color graphics screen. That sentiment has been echoed
before on this list, and I'm a newbie here, less than a year.

Here's a crazy idea: Take the P3 display and put it into the K3.  And then
I wouldn't have to purchase a separate unit just for a panadapter.  I bet
I'm not alone when I say my operating space has much competition for prime
desktop real estate!!!  The idea of a separate standalone panadapter is
pretty "old school" ;)  What modern high performance rig doesn't have one
built in?  Don't bash me on that, I voted with my $$$, I'm a proud K3/P3
owner.  But I can have a wish list, can't I?  ;)

-Chris
K1AY

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:06 AM, John Fritze  wrote:


While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, my main
complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils.  Yes I can wipe
it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an Ipad and a
Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always the best
solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun or incandescent
light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full of smudges.

--
John Fritze Jr
K2QY
k...@arrl.net
ACACES president 2014
ARES ENY DEC Northern District
Hudson Div. Asst. Director
Twitter: @k2qy
401 261 4996 (cell)
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[Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

[Al Duncan]

I have RX xFIL set to "normal" in the menu so that the PBT control adjusts
bandwidth. When I use a BW of 1.8 KHz or higher in SSB mode, everything
looks good on a waterfall display. But when I reduce the BW to 1.7 KHz or
lower, a chunk approximately 250 Hz wide and centered at 1500 Hz is removed
from the waterfall display. I originally thought it was related to the
roofing filters as the effect happened at the same time that FL2 was
selected, but after I set the roofing filters to "not installed" so that FL1
was used for all bandwidths, the problems still occurs. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

KX3-K serial #1691 with latest production release firmware installed. The
roofing filter option was ordered with the transceiver.  

73, AL - VE3RRD

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Comparisons K3S/KX3/K2 etc?

[Matt Maguire]

The Rob Sherwood chart is sorted by narrow spaced dynamic range (second last 
column). K3S is at 107dB, KX is at 104dB, and K2 appears twice, 80dB for the 
new model and 70dB for the older model. I presume if you apply the mod kits to 
an older model K2, it will bring the performance up near where the newer K2s 
sit.

Rob mentioned in one of his presentations that for CW you need a better 
receiver that for SSB, and that ideally you want at least 80dB narrow-spaced 
dynamic range when working weak CW stations in crowded contest conditions with 
strong stations nearby. An up-to-date K2 meets this criteria, but the FT991 is 
quite a but further down the chart at 71dB. Don’t know where this Icom IC7300 
will fit in, but I think, like the Flex radios, it is a direct-sampling SDR 
architecture, and it will be very interesting to see where it ends up.

-- 
73 de Matt VK2RQ

Le 4 septembre 2015 à 12:59:38 AM, Phil Wheeler (w...@socal.rr.com) a écrit:

All three are on this Rob Sherwood chart, Curt:  
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html  

73, Phil W7OX  

On 9/3/15 6:19 AM, Curt wrote:  
> I hadn't been paying too much attention, guess  
> the K3 has been replaced by the K3S. Owning a  
> K2/100, am thinking about an "upgrade". Is  
> there a simple chart comparing the attributes of  
> these three radios? Looking at the receiver  
> comparison charts on Elecraft site, am not  
> seeing the KX3 listed.  
>  
> 72, Curt KB5JO  

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Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,9/3/2015 9:58 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

For JT65 100 watts is QRO!;-)


On HF, yes. On 160M, 6M, 2M, or moonbounce, it's QRP. JT65 is a WEAK 
SIGNAL mode, NOT a QRP mode. Caps added for emphasis.


73, Jim K9YC
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[Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

[w...@msn.com]

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays.  On 
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very 
dangerous.  If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to 
use.  Also, long presses to activate a function don't always work well 
when you are on a bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway 
and city streets these days, especially in southern Arizona.


Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you 
are still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and 
completely non-intuitive.  How much time do you want to spend just 
getting the radio ready to listen in your preferred mode?  There can be 
literally hundreds of choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.  
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or 
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?)  Or 
worse yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to 
enable changing it.


The KX3 isn't immune to this, either.  It sometimes requires that you 
press and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create 
macros that would :

[1] change the mode,
[2] set rig frequency,
[3] set display freq,
[4] change the bandwidth,
[5] display a message to the user,  and
[6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:

I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of gizmos 
and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of them, but 
more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried methods and 
equipment.
I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize that 
it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I prefer 
real buttons and knobs.
I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and 
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At the 
end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can talk to 
him.





   From: Phil Hystad
  To: Jerry Moore
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; John Fritze
  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300


Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's time to
get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.


DITTO!

73, phil, K7PEH




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--
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My homepage: http://w7hd.net

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300/Sherwood ratings

[K5HM]

Guess a guy cannot have too many radios. My K3 is enough for me though

73,
Ron, K5HM
k5hm@gmail.com
www.qrz.com/db/k5hm

    Excelsior!

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Lowman
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:22 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300/Sherwood ratings

My K3S kit is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.
I ordered it from Lisa at the Huntsville Hamfest, but asked her to defer
shipment until I got home.

I also ordered a Flex 6700 at the hamfest.
Nice to know that I will own three of the top four radios in the Sherwood
rankings.
It will be interesting to see the results when Rob tests the K3S.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/3/2015 7:48 AM, Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
> Sherwood Engineering test data is available at 
> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.
>
> The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!
>
> 73,
> Henry - K4TMC
>
> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb  wrote:
>
>> I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to it 
>> with the FT-991.
>> I have not found any performance tests on either one of these radios.  
>> I might have to buy one and test it myself.
>>

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[Elecraft] KX3

[Kyp Normand]

Just ordered the KX3!!

I haven't been on the radio for a few years (since the lightning strike)
but I am looking forward to QRP from my work location in EL48oc. Yes, that is 
in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico (oil rig). 

Thinking about the Super Antenna MP1. 

Anybody use this antenna with the KX3??  How was it?

Thanks. 

Kyp
KD5TTZ

Sent from my iPhone 
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[bs usb]

Al,

Yes, but is it a difference you can discern without the use of special 
test equipment?


If I can't hear the difference, then there is no difference.

Besides Collins, Heathkit, and Drake were perfectly capable radios.  I 
expect the 991 is equally capable and it offers as standard features 
that are expensive options elsewhere.


Al Gulseth wrote:

Guess I'm not reading the chart the same way you are: I find the 991's specs
(sort of) in line with or even below decades-old rigs on the list from Atlas,
Collins, Drake, Heathkit, and Ten-Tec. There's quite a bit of difference
between the 991 and the top of the list (as in the "3" series Elecrafts etc.)

Now if your criteria for choosing a rig is one that will impress the ladies
with its looks, maybe the 991 is the way to go ;-)

73, Al

On Thu September 3 2015 2:45:15 pm bs usb wrote:

Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its
vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.

Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:

Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.

The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb > wrote:


 I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
 it with the FT-991.
 I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
 radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] Comparisons K3S/KX3/K2 etc?

[Wes (N7WS)]

I own both an "original" K3 and "new" K3S. I would suggest snapping up one of 
the several original K3s now going on sale by owners who have upgraded.


Wes  N7WS

 On 9/3/2015 6:19 AM, Curt wrote:
I hadn't been paying too much attention, guess the K3 has been replaced by the 
K3S.  Owning a K2/100, am thinking about an "upgrade".  Is there a simple 
chart comparing the attributes of these three radios?  Looking at the receiver 
comparison charts on Elecraft site, am not seeing the KX3 listed.


72, Curt KB5JO




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Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

[Richard W. Solomon]

Simple answer ... provide speech recognition. Lots of cars have it built in.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
w...@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:44 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays.  On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very dangerous.
If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to use.  Also, long
presses to activate a function don't always work well when you are on a
bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway and city streets
these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you are
still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and completely
non-intuitive.  How much time do you want to spend just getting the radio
ready to listen in your preferred mode?  There can be literally hundreds of
choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.  
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?)  Or worse
yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to enable
changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either.  It sometimes requires that you press
and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
 [1] change the mode,
 [2] set rig frequency,
 [3] set display freq,
 [4] change the bandwidth,
 [5] display a message to the user,  and
 [6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of
gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of
them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried
methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize
that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I
prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At
the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can
talk to him.
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Phil Hystad
>   To: Jerry Moore
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; John Fritze
>   Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
>
>> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's 
>> time to get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.
>
> DITTO!
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>
>
> __
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w...@msn.com
>
>

--
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My homepage: http://w7hd.net

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[Elecraft] KPA500 fan noise

[Terry Burkholder]

During a normal rag chew after three or four minutes, the temp on my 
KPA500 hits 70 degrees and the fans are at full blast. It is difficult 
to hear over the fan noise even when using headphones. Running 480 watts 
out (verified on a calibrated wattmeter) on 20 meters. SWR is 1.0:1.


Is this normal for the KPA500?

Thanks

Terry N4TB


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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Wm Robert Leschyna]

Personally I feel that a touch screen is a must in a "stand alone" (no pc
needed) SDR, as it allows the future development and or creation and use of
soft keys for functions that we may not even think of today. As for the
IC7300, most of the time  you will likely be using the most commonly used
functions which appear to be tied the physical knobs and buttons, and not
have to touch the screen that much.

SDR is the way of the future, heck it is the way now, and I think this is
Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not upsetting their fan
base by introducing an SDR in convention looking hardware. I am confident
that they will be releasing a whole line of stand alone SDR rigs...

I have owned a K2 a couple K3s and KX3, I love Elecraft and love supporting
a made in North American brand, but frankly am confused as to why Elecraft
isn't leading the pack on stand-alone SDR?

73
Bob
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[Elecraft] Icom IC-7300 / Elecraft

[Dick Dickinson]

ICOM indicates that the IC-7300 Multi-function knob selections are displayed
on the upper right of the screen.  That puts them right there next to the
knob to be 'touched.'   While I don't have an experienced opinion on touch
screens, I can see the sense of that setup.

 

I have frequently thought of a series of three adjacent similar knobs for
selections and settings.  

 

Selection / Setting / Value.

 

Using knobs that function similar to Shift/LO / HI/Width / Speed/Mic and
CMP/PWR on the K3 might save a knob, but could perhaps lead to more user
error / miss-taps.

 

I'm not going to attempt to figure out what might go with each knob.  The
selection knob might have a few banks in it.

 

I'll leave the sorting out to those who design interfaces, if there is any
interest.

 

 

Dick - KA5KKT

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300/Sherwood ratings

[Jim Lowman]

My K3S kit is scheduled for delivery tomorrow.
I ordered it from Lisa at the Huntsville Hamfest, but asked her to defer 
shipment until I got home.


I also ordered a Flex 6700 at the hamfest.
Nice to know that I will own three of the top four radios in the 
Sherwood rankings.

It will be interesting to see the results when Rob tests the K3S.

73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/3/2015 7:48 AM, Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:

Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.

The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb  wrote:


I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to it with
the FT-991.
I have not found any performance tests on either one of these radios.  I
might have to buy one and test it myself.



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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Henry Pollock - K4TMC]

Oh boy!.8/05 was to mean August 5th.  I did not include the year, since
I thought everyone would already know that it is a new rig that came out
this year (2015).

73,
Henry - K4TMC
(crawling back under my rock...)


On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Logan Zintsmaster  wrote:

> If 08/05 means August 2005, the listing is about 10 years too early.  The
> FT 991 just came out.
>
> Logan, KZ6O
>
> > On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:45 PM, bs usb  wrote:
> >
> > Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its
> vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.
> >
> >
> > Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
> >> Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.
> >>
> >> The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Henry - K4TMC
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
> >>it with the FT-991.
> >>I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
> >>radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
> >>__
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> >
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[bs usb]

Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its 
vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.



Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
Sherwood Engineering test data is available at 
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.


The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb > wrote:



I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
it with the FT-991.
I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Logan Zintsmaster]

If 08/05 means August 2005, the listing is about 10 years too early.  The FT 
991 just came out. 

Logan, KZ6O

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:45 PM, bs usb  wrote:
> 
> Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its vitals 
> appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.
> 
> 
> Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
>> Sherwood Engineering test data is available at 
>> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.
>> 
>> The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!
>> 
>> 73,
>> Henry - K4TMC
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
>>it with the FT-991.
>>I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
>>radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Al Gulseth]

Guess I'm not reading the chart the same way you are: I find the 991's specs 
(sort of) in line with or even below decades-old rigs on the list from Atlas, 
Collins, Drake, Heathkit, and Ten-Tec. There's quite a bit of difference 
between the 991 and the top of the list (as in the "3" series Elecrafts etc.)

Now if your criteria for choosing a rig is one that will impress the ladies 
with its looks, maybe the 991 is the way to go ;-)

73, Al

On Thu September 3 2015 2:45:15 pm bs usb wrote:
> Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its
> vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.
>
> Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
> > Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
> > http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.
> >
> > The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!
> >
> > 73,
> > Henry - K4TMC
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb  > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
> > it with the FT-991.
> > I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
> > radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
> > __
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of gizmos 
and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of them, but 
more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried methods and 
equipment.
I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize that 
it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I prefer 
real buttons and knobs.
I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and 
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At the 
end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can talk to 
him.





  From: Phil Hystad 
 To: Jerry Moore  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; John Fritze  
 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
   
> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's time to
> get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.

DITTO!

73, phil, K7PEH



   
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Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[Ian - Ham]

David, it would depend on your context. For typical, day-to-day operations, I 
would say anything over 200 watts is high power. Most contests recognize high 
power as anything over 150 watts. If you are a QRPer, anything over 5/10 watts 
(CW/SSB) is considered high power.

Personally, if I have my KPA500 on and am using it, I consider myself running 
at high power, even if I'm only getting 300-350 watts out.

73 de,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624, North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3# 281, P3 #688, KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David 
Ahrendts
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:35 PM
To: Elecraft List 
Subject: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

What do you regard as “high power?” Is our beloved KPA500 at 500 watts a high 
power device? Or do you have to have a big Alpha at legal limit?


David Ahrendts   davidahren...@me.com   




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[Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[David Ahrendts]

What do you regard as “high power?” Is our beloved KPA500 at 500 watts a high 
power device? Or do you have to have a big Alpha at legal limit?


David Ahrendts   davidahren...@me.com   




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Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[Carl Jón Denbow]

For JT65 100 watts is QRO! ;-)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Ian - Ham  wrote:
> 
> David, it would depend on your context. For typical, day-to-day operations, I 
> would say anything over 200 watts is high power. Most contests recognize high 
> power as anything over 150 watts. If you are a QRPer, anything over 5/10 
> watts (CW/SSB) is considered high power.
> 
> Personally, if I have my KPA500 on and am using it, I consider myself running 
> at high power, even if I'm only getting 300-350 watts out.
> 
> 73 de,
> 
> --Ian
> Ian Kahn, KM4IK
> Roswell, GA  EM74ua
> km4ik@gmail.com
> 10-10 #74624, North Georgia Chapter #2038
> PODXS 070 #1962
> K3# 281, P3 #688, KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David 
> Ahrendts
> Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:35 PM
> To: Elecraft List 
> Subject: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?
> 
> What do you regard as “high power?” Is our beloved KPA500 at 500 watts a high 
> power device? Or do you have to have a big Alpha at legal limit?
> 
> 
> David Ahrendts   davidahren...@me.com   
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,9/3/2015 11:58 AM, Kyp Normand wrote:

Thinking about the Super Antenna MP1.


Looks like a money sink. The virtue of something like this is 
portability for backpacking. Depending on how much freedom of access you 
have on the rig, simply rigging a random or resonant wire and using any 
convenient metal on the rig as a counterpoise should work VERY well. 
Total cost is for some wire, and some rope. :)


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Doug Person via Elecraft]

I gave the FT-991 a short, intense work out.  I was the first buyer from 
Ham Radio Outlet.  I just sold it.  Having spent the last part of my 
career as a Usability Engineer - I was not impressed with the FT-991.  
Not from a performance stand point and most importantly not from a 
usability stand point.  However, I think that larger, color, 
touch-sensitive displays are the future of pretty much all U/I's.  I 
personally expect that Elecraft plans on the K3S to remain as a main 
line product for many years to come.  However,  I think we're at the 
cusp of a tidal change.  It's the way of technology.  Faster, more 
powerful, more specialized processors will probably make super-hetrodyne 
obsolete.  It certainly has been an enduring technology and one that is 
still remarkably capable.


I might add that I truly appreciate the K3 and the K-Line.  I sold my 
first set a few years ago and went with a high-end Icom.  After about 6 
months I sold it and bought another K-Line.  I will not make that 
mistake again!


All the arguments supporting the current K3 front panel arrangement are 
all valid and I completely support them.  I like having the kind of 
control the K3 gives me.  On the other hand, I'm working on a complete 
flat-panel, touch sensitive interface using both Windows 10 and Linux 
(Probably OS/X as well) because I designed U/I's for a living and I'm 
curious to see what can be done.  I can easily envision a knobless, 
buttonless, completely integrated flat-panel transceiver whose entire 
user interface can be reconfigured at will be the user.  Truly - it's 
only a matter of who will do it first.  I would probably buy one.  But - 
it would not replace the K3.


73, Doug -- K0DXV

On 9/3/2015 8:48 AM, Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:

Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.

The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb  wrote:


I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to it with
the FT-991.
I have not found any performance tests on either one of these radios.  I
might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

[Al Duncan]

Hi Peter,
It is odd that the Weaver mode is used when I "uninstall" the roofing
filters and the display shows it is only using FL1. I just tried enabling
the 8 KHz RX shift, both with and without the roofing filter installed, but
the problem still shows up. I am exiting from the menu and power-cycling the
KX3 after I make any menu changes to ensure they are in effect.

73, AL - VE3RRD

-Original Message-
From: Peter Lambert [mailto:plamb...@qa.com.au] 
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 4:14 PM
To: 'Al Duncan'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

Hi Al,

Haven't tried it or observed it but I think that what you see is the switch
to weaver mode demodulating.  I thought this would only occurred when the
filter was installed but from your observation I'd say that's not so.

I think what you're seeing is normal.  There's an IF shift (or something
similar) which moves the centre of the demodulated space up to 8KHz.  This
will also prevent the KX3 from switching to weaver mode and supress the hole
in the centre of the demodulated audio but will confirm there's nothing
un-natural going on.  Weaver mode is essential to provide the minimal
roofing filter width in direct conversion SDR architecture.

In SSB mode the hole is of no consequence and not audible.  In digital modes
it can be supressed by keeping the IF bandwidth high.

The 8KHz IF mode is really there to supress low frequency punch through from
things like local AM broadcast station interference.

73's Peter VK4JD

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Al
Duncan
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2015 12:56 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

I have RX xFIL set to "normal" in the menu so that the PBT control adjusts
bandwidth. When I use a BW of 1.8 KHz or higher in SSB mode, everything
looks good on a waterfall display. But when I reduce the BW to 1.7 KHz or
lower, a chunk approximately 250 Hz wide and centered at 1500 Hz is removed
from the waterfall display. I originally thought it was related to the
roofing filters as the effect happened at the same time that FL2 was
selected, but after I set the roofing filters to "not installed" so that FL1
was used for all bandwidths, the problems still occurs. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

KX3-K serial #1691 with latest production release firmware installed. The
roofing filter option was ordered with the transceiver.  

73, AL - VE3RRD

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

The speak recognition in my Jeep is more a hindrance than a help.




  From: Richard W. Solomon 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 3:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays
   
Simple answer ... provide speech recognition. Lots of cars have it built in.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
w...@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:44 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays.  On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very dangerous.
If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to use.  Also, long
presses to activate a function don't always work well when you are on a
bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway and city streets
these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you are
still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and completely
non-intuitive.  How much time do you want to spend just getting the radio
ready to listen in your preferred mode?  There can be literally hundreds of
choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.  
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?)  Or worse
yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to enable
changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either.  It sometimes requires that you press
and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
    [1] change the mode,
    [2] set rig frequency,
    [3] set display freq,
    [4] change the bandwidth,
    [5] display a message to the user,  and
    [6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of
gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of
them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried
methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we realize
that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) I
prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly (and
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At
the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can
talk to him.
>
>
>
>
>
>        From: Phil Hystad
>  To: Jerry Moore
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; John Fritze
>  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
>  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
>
>> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's 
>> time to get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.
>
> DITTO!
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>
>
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>

--
OMISS#9898 Linuxuser#415320 NAQCC#7587
My homepage: http://w7hd.net

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

[Al Duncan]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the suggestion, I was playing around with FSQ digital mode on
14104, 10144 and 7104 USB but couldn’t set my bandwidth narrow enough. In
DATA-A I can now make it as narrow as I want.

 

73, AL – VE3RRD

 

  _  

From: Matt Maguire [mailto:matt.vk...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 4:55 PM
To: Al Duncan; Peter Lambert; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

 

Yet another reason you should use DATA-A mode for digital modes rather than
SSB.

 

73, Matt   VK2RQ

 

Envoyé à partir d'Outlook  

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

I think this is Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not
upsetting their fan base by introducing an SDR in convention looking
hardware. I am confident that they will be releasing a whole line of
stand alone SDR rigs...


The question will be what quality ADC Icom uses in the front end of the
7300 and how clean (phase noise) they can make the synthesizer (clock).

If they have enough ADC bits to provide dynamic range, their claimed
synthesizer phase noise comparison should put the 7300 at about the
same level as the Ten-Tec Eagle in the Sherwood "chart" (e.g., 92-95
dB IMDDR3, -134 dBc @ 10 KHz phase noise, 125-130 dB 100 KHz blocking
[ADC limited]).

If Icom "cheaps out" and uses an ADC with limited resolution (number of
bits) like some of its commercial products, the 7300 is likely to fall
way down the list - into the neighborhood of the IC-7000 or FT-2000.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/3/2015 3:19 PM, Wm Robert Leschyna wrote:

Personally I feel that a touch screen is a must in a "stand alone" (no pc
needed) SDR, as it allows the future development and or creation and use of
soft keys for functions that we may not even think of today. As for the
IC7300, most of the time  you will likely be using the most commonly used
functions which appear to be tied the physical knobs and buttons, and not
have to touch the screen that much.

SDR is the way of the future, heck it is the way now, and I think this is
Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not upsetting their fan
base by introducing an SDR in convention looking hardware. I am confident
that they will be releasing a whole line of stand alone SDR rigs...

I have owned a K2 a couple K3s and KX3, I love Elecraft and love supporting
a made in North American brand, but frankly am confused as to why Elecraft
isn't leading the pack on stand-alone SDR?

73
Bob
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Oliver Dröse]

Major selling point of the IC-7300 overhere in Europe will be it's 
inclusion of the 70 MHz band! :-)


73, Olli - DH8BQA

Contest, DX & radio projects: http://www.dh8bqa.de


Am 03.09.2015 um 08:58 schrieb Arie Kleingeld PA3A:

The versatility/flexibility of the K3 is unmatched.

The nice thing about the ic7300 is that it uses direct RF sampling, 
which is probably the way to go in the future. I'm not sure if the 
touchscreen will add real value for operating. I'll have to try.


As I wrote before, I expect that the K4 will be a direct RF sampling 
device, high performance, just as easy and flexible to use as a loaded 
K3/P3, and all the features.


73
Arie PA3A

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Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[Bob]

High Power is like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder.

Being an OT'er anything beyond the basic 807 or pair of 6146's is High Power,   
So my KPA500 is surely such.


My backup station which is a K2 driving a legal limit Ten Tec Titan sits 
unused.  Hard to beat the integration in the complete "K Line". However if a P5 
operation becomes available the KPA500 may go on a temporary hiatus.  I'd do a 
station reconfiguration until that is in the log.   In that pileup the legal 
limit might be low power, Hi Hi...


73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR




On 9/3/2015 12:58 PM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:

For JT65 100 watts is QRO! ;-)

Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 3, 2015, at 9:39 AM, Ian - Ham  wrote:

David, it would depend on your context. For typical, day-to-day operations, I 
would say anything over 200 watts is high power. Most contests recognize high 
power as anything over 150 watts. If you are a QRPer, anything over 5/10 watts 
(CW/SSB) is considered high power.

Personally, if I have my KPA500 on and am using it, I consider myself running 
at high power, even if I'm only getting 300-350 watts out.

73 de,

--Ian
Ian Kahn, KM4IK
Roswell, GA  EM74ua
km4ik@gmail.com
10-10 #74624, North Georgia Chapter #2038
PODXS 070 #1962
K3# 281, P3 #688, KAT500 #860, KPA500 #1468

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David 
Ahrendts
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:35 PM
To: Elecraft List 
Subject: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

What do you regard as “high power?” Is our beloved KPA500 at 500 watts a high 
power device? Or do you have to have a big Alpha at legal limit?


David Ahrendts   davidahren...@me.com




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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

[Peter Lambert]

Hi Al,

Haven't tried it or observed it but I think that what you see is the switch
to weaver mode demodulating.  I thought this would only occurred when the
filter was installed but from your observation I'd say that's not so.

I think what you're seeing is normal.  There's an IF shift (or something
similar) which moves the centre of the demodulated space up to 8KHz.  This
will also prevent the KX3 from switching to weaver mode and supress the hole
in the centre of the demodulated audio but will confirm there's nothing
un-natural going on.  Weaver mode is essential to provide the minimal
roofing filter width in direct conversion SDR architecture.

In SSB mode the hole is of no consequence and not audible.  In digital modes
it can be supressed by keeping the IF bandwidth high.

The 8KHz IF mode is really there to supress low frequency punch through from
things like local AM broadcast station interference.

73's Peter VK4JD

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Al
Duncan
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2015 12:56 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

I have RX xFIL set to "normal" in the menu so that the PBT control adjusts
bandwidth. When I use a BW of 1.8 KHz or higher in SSB mode, everything
looks good on a waterfall display. But when I reduce the BW to 1.7 KHz or
lower, a chunk approximately 250 Hz wide and centered at 1500 Hz is removed
from the waterfall display. I originally thought it was related to the
roofing filters as the effect happened at the same time that FL2 was
selected, but after I set the roofing filters to "not installed" so that FL1
was used for all bandwidths, the problems still occurs. Any suggestions
would be appreciated.

KX3-K serial #1691 with latest production release firmware installed. The
roofing filter option was ordered with the transceiver.  

73, AL - VE3RRD

 

 

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Yes, but is it a difference you can discern without the use of
special test equipment?


Absolutely!  The FT-991 will be much more noisy, suffer much more QRM
from adjacent signals and suffer much more blocking from strong signals
on the other end of the band.

Anyone who has had a K3 and an Icom 756 Pro or TS-480 side by side and
on the same antenna system can tell the difference in a few minutes of
use.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/3/2015 4:42 PM, bs usb wrote:

Al,

Yes, but is it a difference you can discern without the use of special
test equipment?

If I can't hear the difference, then there is no difference.

Besides Collins, Heathkit, and Drake were perfectly capable radios.  I
expect the 991 is equally capable and it offers as standard features
that are expensive options elsewhere.

Al Gulseth wrote:

Guess I'm not reading the chart the same way you are: I find the 991's
specs
(sort of) in line with or even below decades-old rigs on the list from
Atlas,
Collins, Drake, Heathkit, and Ten-Tec. There's quite a bit of difference
between the 991 and the top of the list (as in the "3" series
Elecrafts etc.)

Now if your criteria for choosing a rig is one that will impress the
ladies
with its looks, maybe the 991 is the way to go ;-)

73, Al

On Thu September 3 2015 2:45:15 pm bs usb wrote:

Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its
vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.

Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:

Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.

The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb > wrote:


 I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
 it with the FT-991.
 I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
 radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Phil Wheeler]

Joe,

Thanks for addressing what to me is the core issue 
with any rig -- performance. A "bells and 
whistles" user interface -- and that can be a 
matter of personal preference -- may sell a lot of 
rigs, but to me performance is key in selecting a 
base station transceiver. I can compromise 
performance for special applications like portable 
ops, QRP, etc. but I want my main station radio to 
be near the top of the list in the Sherwoodian sense.


After looking at the information here 
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7300/default.aspx 
an in the pdf file linked here: 
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?Document=746
 and from the general appearance of the Icom-7300 
(ports, controls, etc.) I don't expect it to be 
near the top when Rob Sherwood tests it. Of 
course, it hinges on a number of factors -- 
including those you brought up below -- and I 
could be surprised. Even so, while I'm not 
spring-loaded against SDR rigs (the KX3 is 
basically an SDR radio, after all, and I enjoy 
mine), I can do without a touch-screen interface.  
But I've been at this for 62 years now, so maybe 
I'm just "old fashioned" :-)


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/3/15 1:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:


I think this is Icom's way of dipping their toe 
in the water and not
upsetting their fan base by introducing an SDR 
in convention looking
hardware. I am confident that they will be 
releasing a whole line of

stand alone SDR rigs...


The question will be what quality ADC Icom uses 
in the front end of the
7300 and how clean (phase noise) they can make 
the synthesizer (clock).


If they have enough ADC bits to provide dynamic 
range, their claimed
synthesizer phase noise comparison should put 
the 7300 at about the
same level as the Ten-Tec Eagle in the Sherwood 
"chart" (e.g., 92-95
dB IMDDR3, -134 dBc @ 10 KHz phase noise, 
125-130 dB 100 KHz blocking

[ADC limited]).

If Icom "cheaps out" and uses an ADC with 
limited resolution (number of
bits) like some of its commercial products, the 
7300 is likely to fall
way down the list - into the neighborhood of the 
IC-7000 or FT-2000.


73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/3/2015 3:19 PM, Wm Robert Leschyna wrote:
Personally I feel that a touch screen is a must 
in a "stand alone" (no pc
needed) SDR, as it allows the future 
development and or creation and use of
soft keys for functions that we may not even 
think of today. As for the
IC7300, most of the time  you will likely be 
using the most commonly used
functions which appear to be tied the physical 
knobs and buttons, and not

have to touch the screen that much.

SDR is the way of the future, heck it is the 
way now, and I think this is
Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water 
and not upsetting their fan
base by introducing an SDR in convention 
looking hardware. I am confident
that they will be releasing a whole line of 
stand alone SDR rigs...


I have owned a K2 a couple K3s and KX3, I love 
Elecraft and love supporting
a made in North American brand, but frankly am 
confused as to why Elecraft

isn't leading the pack on stand-alone SDR?

73
Bob


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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Cliff Frescura]

+1000

And does this rig have the CAT fix for split?

 Original message From: Tony Estep 
 Date:09/02/2015  5:48 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: Elecraft Reflector  
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300 
I note that it has only one tuning knob, which in turn probably means you
can't do the standard dx-split operating technique. If that's the case,
then no matter what fancy gizmos it may boast, it would be of no interest
to me, and some others might feel the same.

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

The versatility/flexibility of the K3 is unmatched.

The nice thing about the ic7300 is that it uses direct RF sampling, 
which is probably the way to go in the future. I'm not sure if the 
touchscreen will add real value for operating. I'll have to try.


As I wrote before, I expect that the K4 will be a direct RF sampling 
device, high performance, just as easy and flexible to use as a loaded 
K3/P3, and all the features.


73
Arie PA3A

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Glen Torr]

Hi Wayne,
Thank you for the thoughtful comments on the IC7300.
I am spending some of my retirement in radio astronomy where direct RF
sampling is invading. Radio astronomy is very different from most
communications in that the wider the bandwidth the better.
The only threat to my K3 is the KX3 and amplifier, we spend a lot of time
in the bush with our camper trailer and KX3 plus KXPA 100.
Thanks so much, I am rusted on to Elecraft.
Kind Regards,
Glen VK1FB
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[David Giles]

I was at the Tokyo Ham Fair and got to spend a minute or so with one of 
the four on display.  There was a crowd looking at them.  I won't 
comment on specs but just give a first impression.
It's smaller than a K3.  The front panel does not appear to be 
detachable.  The display is easy to read. I was intrigued by the SD-slot 
- probably has several uses.  Subjectively I would prefer this one over 
the FT-991 mainly due to the screen and its general layout of controls.
Rest assured I won't be trading my K3 for one, but will be interested in 
performance and reliability after they are released.


73 de David VK5DG







On 4/09/2015 07:56, W2CTX via Elecraft wrote:

If the 991 is so good why did Sherwood rank it below the ancient 706?
Ron
   From: bs usb 
  To: wb5...@centurytel.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 4:42 PM
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

Al,


Yes, but is it a difference you can discern without the use of special
test equipment?

If I can't hear the difference, then there is no difference.

Besides Collins, Heathkit, and Drake were perfectly capable radios.  I
expect the 991 is equally capable and it offers as standard features
that are expensive options elsewhere.



Al Gulseth wrote:

Guess I'm not reading the chart the same way you are: I find the 991's specs
(sort of) in line with or even below decades-old rigs on the list from Atlas,
Collins, Drake, Heathkit, and Ten-Tec. There's quite a bit of difference
between the 991 and the top of the list (as in the "3" series Elecrafts etc.)

Now if your criteria for choosing a rig is one that will impress the ladies
with its looks, maybe the 991 is the way to go ;-)

73, Al

On Thu September 3 2015 2:45:15 pm bs usb wrote:

Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its
vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.

Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:

Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.

The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!

73,
Henry - K4TMC

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb > wrote:


   I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
   it with the FT-991.
   I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
   radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[Edward R Cole]

Jim beat me to saying it:

Depends on what band, what application you are talking about.

JT65 was created for weak-signal eme (originally) ...and where I use 
it 1000w is QRO and 600w is not.
QRP must be used in context of what is being attempted...I ran 150w 
on 2m-eme and that is considered QRPp.


On eme RF power is not very accurate description; ERP more relevant 
(eme doesn't happen without certain amount of antenna gain).  My QRPp 
ERP was = 150w x 83* = 12,450w, *19.2 dBd ant gain = x83


Currently I run 1300w, and ERP = 1300 x83 = 107.9 kW
wouldn't you like to run that on 20m!

JT65HF is a "johnny come lately" mode.  But there are a whole suite 
of digital modes available for experimentation by all aspects of ham 
radio - just be careful with sweeping statements without stating 
their application.


73, Ed - KL7UW
on 78-GHz 1w is super QRO.

From: Jim Brown 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?
Message-ID: <55e88209.4040...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

On Thu,9/3/2015 9:58 AM, Carl J?n Denbow wrote:
> For JT65 100 watts is QRO!;-)

On HF, yes. On 160M, 6M, 2M, or moonbounce, it's QRP. JT65 is a WEAK
SIGNAL mode, NOT a QRP mode. Caps added for emphasis.

73, Jim K9YC


73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
dubus...@gmail.com

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Matt Maguire]

If you are alone on the band, then you probably won't notice any difference. 
When the band gets crowded, however, you'll start to deal with QRM. some of 
that QRM will be from people transmitting "dirty" signals, but if your receiver 
has distortion, some of the "QRM" you hear will be "generated" by the receiver 
itself as signals get mixed together. It is hard enough to hear that weak 
station with all the QRM on the band without having your receiver add "QRM" of 
its own. We care about the lab measurements because they help indicate whether 
the receiver is likely to be the weakest link or not.
The following short article from W8JI may help explain this 
better:http://bit.ly/1UvIRHW
73, Matt VK2RQ

_
From: bs usb 
Sent: vendredi, septembre 4, 2015 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
To:  ,  


Al,

Yes, but is it a difference you can discern without the use of special 
test equipment?

If I can't hear the difference, then there is no difference.
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Phil Wheeler]

Thanks for the explanation, Wayne. Funny thing is 
that I never think of the K3 as *functionally* an 
SDR radio, I guess because I don't have access to 
the I/Q signal -- unless it accessible in some 
sneaky way I don't know about.  OTOH in principle 
it seems one could take the I/Q output of the KX3 
and build their own "back end", playing all sorts 
of games -- not that I plan such an adventure. 
However, last Summer I did build one of the Tiny 
Python Panadapters in the April 2014 QST which was 
a fun project made possible by the KX3's I/Q port, 
though I soon replaced it by the much more capable 
PX3.


Aside from its "cosmetic" features, which don't 
particularly appeal to me, the Icom-7300 looks 
like a radio not well suited for operation in 
crowded bands, DX pile-up situations, a 
strong-signal environment or Field Day. It will be 
interesting to see what the QST and Sherwood tests 
reveal.


There are some SDR dongles which will provide a 
"look at multiple MHz of bandwidth" at very low 
cost :-) Such a capability can be useful in 
monitoring a band you're not currently operating.


73, Phil W7OX

On 9/3/15 3:47 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Hi Phil,

Just to clarify: Both the KX3 and K3/K3S are SDRs. A major difference between 
these rigs and something like the IC-7300 or Flex 6xxx series is that our 
A-to-D converters (ADCs) are protected from wideband interference by a 
narrowband I.F. The K3/K3S uses crystal filters, while the KX3 uses precision, 
narrowband low-pass filters.

In direct-sampling SDRs, the ADC is right at the front end of the radio, 
protected only by wideband LC filters. The result is typically 15-20 dB lower 
blocking dynamic range. More subtle is the effect of multiple signals, which 
can combine in phase to hit the limit of the ADC, resulting in unwanted images.

It's a tradeoff; a direct-sampling SDR can allow you to look at multiple MHz of 
bandwidth on its spectrum display, if that's of interest.

Wayne
N6KR


On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:57 PM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:


Joe,

Thanks for addressing what to me is the core issue with any rig -- performance. A 
"bells and whistles" user interface -- and that can be a matter of personal 
preference -- may sell a lot of rigs, but to me performance is key in selecting a base 
station transceiver. I can compromise performance for special applications like portable 
ops, QRP, etc. but I want my main station radio to be near the top of the list in the 
Sherwoodian sense.

After looking at the information here 
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7300/default.aspx an in the 
pdf file linked here: 
http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?Document=746
and from the general appearance of the Icom-7300 (ports, controls, etc.) I don't expect 
it to be near the top when Rob Sherwood tests it. Of course, it hinges on a number of 
factors -- including those you brought up below -- and I could be surprised. Even so, 
while I'm not spring-loaded against SDR rigs (the KX3 is basically an SDR radio, after 
all, and I enjoy mine), I can do without a touch-screen interface.  But I've been at this 
for 62 years now, so maybe I'm just "old fashioned" :-)

73, Phil W7OX

On 9/3/15 1:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

I think this is Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not
upsetting their fan base by introducing an SDR in convention looking
hardware. I am confident that they will be releasing a whole line of
stand alone SDR rigs...

The question will be what quality ADC Icom uses in the front end of the
7300 and how clean (phase noise) they can make the synthesizer (clock).

If they have enough ADC bits to provide dynamic range, their claimed
synthesizer phase noise comparison should put the 7300 at about the
same level as the Ten-Tec Eagle in the Sherwood "chart" (e.g., 92-95
dB IMDDR3, -134 dBc @ 10 KHz phase noise, 125-130 dB 100 KHz blocking
[ADC limited]).

If Icom "cheaps out" and uses an ADC with limited resolution (number of
bits) like some of its commercial products, the 7300 is likely to fall
way down the list - into the neighborhood of the IC-7000 or FT-2000.

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 9/3/2015 3:19 PM, Wm Robert Leschyna wrote:

Personally I feel that a touch screen is a must in a "stand alone" (no pc
needed) SDR, as it allows the future development and or creation and use of
soft keys for functions that we may not even think of today. As for the
IC7300, most of the time  you will likely be using the most commonly used
functions which appear to be tied the physical knobs and buttons, and not
have to touch the screen that much.

SDR is the way of the future, heck it is the way now, and I think this is
Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not upsetting their fan
base by introducing an SDR in convention looking hardware. I am confident
that they will be releasing a whole line of stand alone SDR rigs...

I have owned a K2 a couple K3s and KX3, I love Elecraft and love supporting
a 

Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[W2CTX via Elecraft]

If the 991 is so good why did Sherwood rank it below the ancient 706?
Ron
  From: bs usb 
 To: wb5...@centurytel.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 4:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
   
Al,

Yes, but is it a difference you can discern without the use of special 
test equipment?

If I can't hear the difference, then there is no difference.

Besides Collins, Heathkit, and Drake were perfectly capable radios.  I 
expect the 991 is equally capable and it offers as standard features 
that are expensive options elsewhere.



Al Gulseth wrote:
> Guess I'm not reading the chart the same way you are: I find the 991's specs
> (sort of) in line with or even below decades-old rigs on the list from Atlas,
> Collins, Drake, Heathkit, and Ten-Tec. There's quite a bit of difference
> between the 991 and the top of the list (as in the "3" series Elecrafts etc.)
>
> Now if your criteria for choosing a rig is one that will impress the ladies
> with its looks, maybe the 991 is the way to go ;-)
>
> 73, Al
>
> On Thu September 3 2015 2:45:15 pm bs usb wrote:
>> Indeed, the FT-991 is on the list, way down toward the bottom, but its
>> vitals appear to be right in line with those at the top of the list.
>>
>> Henry Pollock - K4TMC wrote:
>>> Sherwood Engineering test data is available at
>>> http://www.sherweng.com/table.html.
>>>
>>> The FT-991 was added back on 8/05.  It is way down the list!
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Henry - K4TMC
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 11:25 AM, bs usb >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      I think ICOM is a day late and a dollar short.  Yaesu beat them to
>>>      it with the FT-991.
>>>      I have not found any performance tests on either one of these
>>>      radios.  I might have to buy one and test it myself.
>>>      __
>>>      Elecraft mailing list
>>>      Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>      Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>>      
>>>
>>>      This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>>      Message delivered to kilo4...@gmail.com 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Phil,

Just to clarify: Both the KX3 and K3/K3S are SDRs. A major difference between 
these rigs and something like the IC-7300 or Flex 6xxx series is that our 
A-to-D converters (ADCs) are protected from wideband interference by a 
narrowband I.F. The K3/K3S uses crystal filters, while the KX3 uses precision, 
narrowband low-pass filters. 

In direct-sampling SDRs, the ADC is right at the front end of the radio, 
protected only by wideband LC filters. The result is typically 15-20 dB lower 
blocking dynamic range. More subtle is the effect of multiple signals, which 
can combine in phase to hit the limit of the ADC, resulting in unwanted images. 

It's a tradeoff; a direct-sampling SDR can allow you to look at multiple MHz of 
bandwidth on its spectrum display, if that's of interest.

Wayne
N6KR


On Sep 3, 2015, at 2:57 PM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:

> Joe,
> 
> Thanks for addressing what to me is the core issue with any rig -- 
> performance. A "bells and whistles" user interface -- and that can be a 
> matter of personal preference -- may sell a lot of rigs, but to me 
> performance is key in selecting a base station transceiver. I can compromise 
> performance for special applications like portable ops, QRP, etc. but I want 
> my main station radio to be near the top of the list in the Sherwoodian sense.
> 
> After looking at the information here 
> http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/7300/default.aspx an in the 
> pdf file linked here: 
> http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDetails.aspx?Document=746
> and from the general appearance of the Icom-7300 (ports, controls, etc.) I 
> don't expect it to be near the top when Rob Sherwood tests it. Of course, it 
> hinges on a number of factors -- including those you brought up below -- and 
> I could be surprised. Even so, while I'm not spring-loaded against SDR rigs 
> (the KX3 is basically an SDR radio, after all, and I enjoy mine), I can do 
> without a touch-screen interface.  But I've been at this for 62 years now, so 
> maybe I'm just "old fashioned" :-)
> 
> 73, Phil W7OX
> 
> On 9/3/15 1:39 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> 
>>> I think this is Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not
>>> upsetting their fan base by introducing an SDR in convention looking
>>> hardware. I am confident that they will be releasing a whole line of
>>> stand alone SDR rigs...
>> 
>> The question will be what quality ADC Icom uses in the front end of the
>> 7300 and how clean (phase noise) they can make the synthesizer (clock).
>> 
>> If they have enough ADC bits to provide dynamic range, their claimed
>> synthesizer phase noise comparison should put the 7300 at about the
>> same level as the Ten-Tec Eagle in the Sherwood "chart" (e.g., 92-95
>> dB IMDDR3, -134 dBc @ 10 KHz phase noise, 125-130 dB 100 KHz blocking
>> [ADC limited]).
>> 
>> If Icom "cheaps out" and uses an ADC with limited resolution (number of
>> bits) like some of its commercial products, the 7300 is likely to fall
>> way down the list - into the neighborhood of the IC-7000 or FT-2000.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>>  ... Joe, W4TV
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/3/2015 3:19 PM, Wm Robert Leschyna wrote:
>>> Personally I feel that a touch screen is a must in a "stand alone" (no pc
>>> needed) SDR, as it allows the future development and or creation and use of
>>> soft keys for functions that we may not even think of today. As for the
>>> IC7300, most of the time  you will likely be using the most commonly used
>>> functions which appear to be tied the physical knobs and buttons, and not
>>> have to touch the screen that much.
>>> 
>>> SDR is the way of the future, heck it is the way now, and I think this is
>>> Icom's way of dipping their toe in the water and not upsetting their fan
>>> base by introducing an SDR in convention looking hardware. I am confident
>>> that they will be releasing a whole line of stand alone SDR rigs...
>>> 
>>> I have owned a K2 a couple K3s and KX3, I love Elecraft and love supporting
>>> a made in North American brand, but frankly am confused as to why Elecraft
>>> isn't leading the pack on stand-alone SDR?
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> Bob
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

[Fred Townsend]

How is that going to work? Are you commanding the radio or talking to
someone? Doesn't seem simple to me.
73
Fred, AE6QL

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Richard W. Solomon
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 12:05 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

Simple answer ... provide speech recognition. Lots of cars have it built in.

73, Dick, W1KSZ

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
w...@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 9:44 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] Touch-screen displays

There is yet another major problem with those touch-screen displays.  On
mobile installations, they are very distracting, therefore very dangerous.
If there isn't a labeled button for it, it isn't easy to use.  Also, long
presses to activate a function don't always work well when you are on a
bumpy road, which describes a lot of our major highway and city streets
these days, especially in southern Arizona.

Meanwhile, one of the big problems even on base-station rigs is that you are
still faced with MENU choices that can be several levels deep and completely
non-intuitive.  How much time do you want to spend just getting the radio
ready to listen in your preferred mode?  There can be literally hundreds of
choices, some labeled in someones tech-speak.  
(When was the last time you referred to mic input gain as multi/ch or
digital mode input level as dAtA DT GaIN - menu item 65 of 178?)  Or worse
yet, you select menu item 50, only to be told to press SUB to enable
changing it.

The KX3 isn't immune to this, either.  It sometimes requires that you press
and hold KHZ for 3 seconds to enable changing a setting.
I started operating FLDIGI in RIGCAT mode specifically so I could create
macros that would :
 [1] change the mode,
 [2] set rig frequency,
 [3] set display freq,
 [4] change the bandwidth,
 [5] display a message to the user,  and
 [6] start auto-tune
and do all this with ONE click of a labeled button.

Ron W7HD

Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> I'm the same way, I work on complex stuff all day as well.
> In my other Expensive Hobby I keep a Reef Aquarium. I've seen a lot of
gizmos and gadgets come and go over the yearsand even I fell for a few of
them, but more and more I have come full circle and back to the tried
methods and equipment.
> I think many at times fall for the latest gizmo or craze, then we 
> realize
that it's not all it's cracked up to be.
>
> Touchscreens do have their place, but not on an HF rig (at least mine) 
> I
prefer real buttons and knobs.
> I bought the K-Line is because it was straightforward and not overly 
> (and
unnecessarily complex) and somethingthat I could work on if it breaks. At
the end of the day I want a radio that lets me hear the other guy, so I can
talk to him.
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Phil Hystad
>   To: Jerry Moore
> Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net; John Fritze
>   Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:43 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
>
>> Personally I'm surrounded and use fancy tech all day long. When it's 
>> time to get on the air I want simple, straight up, and reliable.
>
> DITTO!
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>
>
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>

--
OMISS#9898 Linuxuser#415320 NAQCC#7587
My homepage: http://w7hd.net

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[Elecraft] WTB KFL3A-200

[Jerry Moore]

WTB KFL3A-200


Thanks in advance.
Jerry Moore
AE4PB, 

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Alan]

On 09/03/2015 08:01 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Each to his own, but I find touchscreens to be 'bothersome' - real
buttons with tactile feedback and real knobs do much better for me.


The nice thing about knobs is that over time you develop "muscle memory" 
where each one is and how to adjust it.  You can make the adjustments 
without thinking about it, so you can keep your mind focused on operating.


A touch screen might be handy for some things, but the prime operating 
controls should be knobs IM (not so) HO.  :=)


Alan N1AL

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Gary]

Alan,

Nobody has said it better.

Elecraft = Knobs R Us

Gary

-Original Message-
From: "Alan" 
Sent: ‎4/‎09/‎2015 1:56 PM
To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net" 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

On 09/03/2015 08:01 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Each to his own, but I find touchscreens to be 'bothersome' - real
> buttons with tactile feedback and real knobs do much better for me.

The nice thing about knobs is that over time you develop "muscle memory" 
where each one is and how to adjust it.  You can make the adjustments 
without thinking about it, so you can keep your mind focused on operating.

A touch screen might be handy for some things, but the prime operating 
controls should be knobs IM (not so) HO.  :=)

Alan N1AL

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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Walter Underwood]

I apologize in advance if this is getting far off topic, but there is a blog 
that reviews audio equipment purely on the basis of “knob feel”. It is deeply 
silly, but you know, I can’t really disagree. There are lame knobs, good knobs, 
and great knobs. The feel of a big audio variable attenuator? That’s a sweet 
knob, hard to replicate in the digital era.

We need to set this dude up with some amateur radio equipment.

http://knobfeel.tumblr.com/

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Sep 3, 2015, at 8:01 PM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Each to his own, but I find touchscreens to be 'bothersome' - real buttons 
> with tactile feedback and real knobs do much better for me.
> I have tried tuning with the mouse scrollwheel, but find it cumbersome.  For 
> my radio, give me buttons and knobs - I can do the tuning and button pushing 
> "by feel" and it does not take my concentration away by having to observe 
> what I am seeing on the screen.
> 
> Just my not so humble opinion.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> On 9/3/2015 10:33 PM, Brian Denley wrote:
>> I'm with Chris.  I like knobs too but touch screens are here to stay.
>> 
>> Brian
>> KB1VBF
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Jim Lowman]

Now that I've had a smartphone for a few years, I can coexist with both 
worlds.

But, being an OT, I like my knobs and switches.
Surprisingly, I haven't bought a TS-991.

At the Huntsville Hamfest, I ordered a Flex 6700, as well as a K3S.
As a concession to the knob-twiddler in my personality, I pre-ordered 
the Maestro console for the 6700.
Aside from having some actual knobs, I can operate it anywhere in the 
house, on the patio, etc. as long as it can reach my wireless signal.


73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 9/3/2015 7:33 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

I'm with Chris.  I like knobs too but touch screens are here to stay.

Brian
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad




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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem

[Matt Maguire]

Yet another reason you should use DATA-A mode for digital modes rather than SSB.
73, Matt VK2RQ
Envoyé à partir d'Outlook

_
From: Peter Lambert 
Sent: vendredi, septembre 4, 2015 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KX3 PBT problem
To: Al Duncan ,  


Hi Al,

Haven't tried it or observed it but I think that what you see is the switch
to weaver mode demodulating.  I thought this would only occurred when the
filter was installed but from your observation I'd say that's not so.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

Exactly

  From: Jim Brown 
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
 Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 1:23 PM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT - High Power?
   
On Thu,9/3/2015 9:58 AM, Carl Jón Denbow wrote:
> For JT65 100 watts is QRO!;-)

On HF, yes. On 160M, 6M, 2M, or moonbounce, it's QRP. JT65 is a WEAK 
SIGNAL mode, NOT a QRP mode. Caps added for emphasis.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Don Wilhelm]

Each to his own, but I find touchscreens to be 'bothersome' - real 
buttons with tactile feedback and real knobs do much better for me.
I have tried tuning with the mouse scrollwheel, but find it cumbersome.  
For my radio, give me buttons and knobs - I can do the tuning and button 
pushing "by feel" and it does not take my concentration away by having 
to observe what I am seeing on the screen.


Just my not so humble opinion.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/3/2015 10:33 PM, Brian Denley wrote:

I'm with Chris.  I like knobs too but touch screens are here to stay.

Brian
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad




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[Elecraft] Comparisons K3S/KX3/K2 etc?

[Curt]

I hadn't been paying too much attention, guess the K3 has been replaced by 
the K3S.  Owning a K2/100, am thinking about an "upgrade".  Is there a 
simple chart comparing the attributes of these three radios?  Looking at the 
receiver comparison charts on Elecraft site, am not seeing the KX3 listed.


72, Curt KB5JO 



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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I sure hope Elecraft Never goes to touch screens.
It would be a game changer alright, I would not buy it.




  From: Doug Person via Elecraft 
 To: "elecraft@mailman.qth.net"  
 Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 7:51 PM
 Subject: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300
   
Icom recently released news about the upcoming IC-7300 
 to be 
available by the end of the year.  A completely software-defined 
radio.  Looks like a real game-changer.
While the K3S is a nice upgrade, I think the tide is slowly shifting to 
touch sensitive, menu-driven, color displays.

I certainly hope the Elecraft is looking at this and considering its 
implications.


Doug -- K0DXV
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[John Fritze]

While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, my main
complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils.  Yes I can wipe
it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an Ipad and a
Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always the best
solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun or incandescent
light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full of smudges.

-- 
John Fritze Jr
K2QY
k...@arrl.net
ACACES president 2014
ARES ENY DEC Northern District
Hudson Div. Asst. Director
Twitter: @k2qy
401 261 4996 (cell)
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Re: [Elecraft] Icom IC-7300

[Brian Denley]

I'm with Chris.  I like knobs too but touch screens are here to stay.

Brian 
KB1VBF
Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 9:57 AM, Chris Hallinan  wrote:
> 
> I'll add my $0.02.  I'm not a huge fan of touch screen for the same reasons
> John mentions.  However, I would surely welcome a more modern color screen
> on my K3.  Maybe even a few programmable touch buttons in a similar fashion
> to the buttons across the bottom of the P3.
> 
> Hey, we all bought into the Elecraft performance story, and voted with our
> dollars.  But who wouldn't want a more modern look and feel, which by
> definition means a color graphics screen. That sentiment has been echoed
> before on this list, and I'm a newbie here, less than a year.
> 
> Here's a crazy idea: Take the P3 display and put it into the K3.  And then
> I wouldn't have to purchase a separate unit just for a panadapter.  I bet
> I'm not alone when I say my operating space has much competition for prime
> desktop real estate!!!  The idea of a separate standalone panadapter is
> pretty "old school" ;)  What modern high performance rig doesn't have one
> built in?  Don't bash me on that, I voted with my $$$, I'm a proud K3/P3
> owner.  But I can have a wish list, can't I?  ;)
> 
> -Chris
> K1AY
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 9:06 AM, John Fritze  wrote:
>> 
>> While I think touch screen technology is neat, and perhaps faster, my main
>> complaint is the screen is always filthy with finger oils.  Yes I can wipe
>> it off, but experience with an AVmap GPS, my Galaxy 5, an Ipad and a
>> Windows 8,1 laptop tells me that touch screen is not always the best
>> solution.  I like my screens clear and clean because if sun or incandescent
>> light hits at an angle it is difficult to read when full of smudges.
>> 
>> --
>> John Fritze Jr
>> K2QY
>> k...@arrl.net
>> ACACES president 2014
>> ARES ENY DEC Northern District
>> Hudson Div. Asst. Director
>> Twitter: @k2qy
>> 401 261 4996 (cell)
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>> Message delivered to challi...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Life is like Linux - it never stands still.
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 fan noise

[Jack West]

SAME HERE,

I RUN MY KPA-500 IN FSK AT 270 WATTS OUT INTO A 1:1 SWR AS NCS OF THE RATTS RTTY 
NET. DURING THE LONG PREAMBLE AND ENDING MESSAGE MY TEMP GETS UP TO 70 AND 
SOMETIMES 73 DEG C. THE FAN ROARS LOUDLY AFTER 70 DEG IS REACHED. I HAVE AN 
ADDITIONAL FAN BEHIND THE FAN IN K3 TO ASSIST SUCKING THE AIR OF OUT OF THE AMP. I 
WISH IT DID NOT HAVE TO WORK SO HARD THAT THE FAN HAS TO GO INTO HIGH SPEED. I 
HAVE PLENTY OF CLEARANCE UNDER THE AMP SUCH AS NOT TO RESTRICK AIR FLOW.


73 de
Jack / W7LD / "Lucky Dog"

- Original Message - 
From: "Terry Burkholder" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 11:58 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] KPA500 fan noise


During a normal rag chew after three or four minutes, the temp on my KPA500 hits 
70 degrees and the fans are at full blast. It is difficult to hear over the fan 
noise even when using headphones. Running 480 watts out (verified on a 
calibrated wattmeter) on 20 meters. SWR is 1.0:1.


Is this normal for the KPA500?

Thanks

Terry N4TB


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