Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver frequency adjustment

[Jim Brown]

On 9/20/2020 12:04 PM, RVZ via Elecraft wrote:

I'm wondering what options are available for adjusting the K3 receiver 
frequency?


It's in the manual.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver frequency adjustment

[N4ZR]

Amen, Dave.  After all, the "retail" DX cluster network rounds frequency 
to the nearest 0.1 KHz.  I think RVZ could do worse than to use WWV at 
10 or 15 MHz to verify his K3's calibration


And FWIW, a word or two from the RBN perspective - we have been working 
for several months to improve the frequency calibration of the RBN, by 
helping the stations that combine prolific spotting with less than ideal 
calibration.  SM7IUN has come up with a very neat tool for measuring the 
average accuracy of each active RBN node over each Zulu day, and posting 
the results nightly at .


The vast majority of prolific RBN nodes are already within 5 parts per 
million, which equates to only 0.07 KHz on 14 MHz.  The very "worst" 
ones are off by around 15 ppm, or a bit over 0.2 KHz on 20m, and I have 
been working with them, one by one, trying to bring their nodes closer 
to the standard.


For users of the Red Pitaya and QS1R receivers, as well as the other 
receivers directly supported by VE3NEA's Skimmer Servers, correcting 
calibration is a simple matter, and we've seen some good results, with 
others forthcoming soon, I hope.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 9/20/2020 3:08 PM, David Gilbert wrote:


Why don't you check an actual known frequency???  Relying on packet 
spots for anything seems foolish to me.


Dave   AB7E


On 9/20/2020 12:04 PM, RVZ via Elecraft wrote:

Hi Guys,

My K3 receiver is a little off frequency compared to the frequency 
stations are spotted at.  I realize that Packet Spots aren't always 
posted on frequency, but after viewing thousands of Spots which were 
posted by dozens of different sources, on average the actual 
frequency the station is received at averages 0.2 khz higher on the 
band then where it was spotted.  I'm wondering what options are 
available for adjusting the K3 receiver frequency?  Is there a 
receiver frequency adjustment within the K3 Utility? Thanks & 
73, Dick- K9OM


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver frequency adjustment

[Fred Jensen]

All good advice BUT ... before you do anything, look up Wayne's RefCal 
procedure on the Elecraft site. I think Don, W3FPR, may also have it.  
It's not hard, you just have to go slowly and be very meticulous at each 
step.  I have my K3 #642 within 1 Hz of WWV, and it stays there.  It's a 
fun adjustment too because there are very few things we can adjust to 
within 1 part per 10 million and no test equipment. [:=)


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 9/20/2020 12:13 PM, Nr4c wrote:

Look in the manual for Ref Cal calibration. But before you go Messing there, 
tune radio to WWV on 10.000, 15.000 or 20.000 MHz and see if it’s really you or 
the other guy that’s off.
Now check for procedure.  The zero beat works well and can get you within a 
Hertz or two

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill



On Sep 20, 2020, at 3:06 PM, RVZ via Elecraft  wrote:

Hi Guys,

My K3 receiver is a little off frequency compared to the frequency stations are 
spotted at.  I realize that Packet Spots aren't always posted on frequency, but 
after viewing thousands of Spots which were posted by dozens of different sources, 
on average the actual frequency the station is received at averages 0.2 khz higher 
on the band then where it was spotted.  I'm wondering what options are available 
for adjusting the K3 receiver frequency?  Is there a receiver frequency adjustment 
within the K3 Utility? Thanks & 73, Dick- K9OM
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver frequency adjustment

[Nr4c]

Look in the manual for Ref Cal calibration. But before you go Messing there, 
tune radio to WWV on 10.000, 15.000 or 20.000 MHz and see if it’s really you or 
the other guy that’s off. 
Now check for procedure.  The zero beat works well and can get you within a 
Hertz or two 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Sep 20, 2020, at 3:06 PM, RVZ via Elecraft  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Guys,
> 
> My K3 receiver is a little off frequency compared to the frequency stations 
> are spotted at.  I realize that Packet Spots aren't always posted on 
> frequency, but after viewing thousands of Spots which were posted by dozens 
> of different sources, on average the actual frequency the station is received 
> at averages 0.2 khz higher on the band then where it was spotted.  I'm 
> wondering what options are available for adjusting the K3 receiver frequency? 
>  Is there a receiver frequency adjustment within the K3 Utility? Thanks & 73, 
> Dick- K9OM
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver frequency adjustment

[David Gilbert]

Why don't you check an actual known frequency???  Relying on packet 
spots for anything seems foolish to me.


Dave   AB7E


On 9/20/2020 12:04 PM, RVZ via Elecraft wrote:

Hi Guys,

My K3 receiver is a little off frequency compared to the frequency stations are 
spotted at.  I realize that Packet Spots aren't always posted on frequency, but 
after viewing thousands of Spots which were posted by dozens of different sources, 
on average the actual frequency the station is received at averages 0.2 khz higher 
on the band then where it was spotted.  I'm wondering what options are available 
for adjusting the K3 receiver frequency?  Is there a receiver frequency adjustment 
within the K3 Utility? Thanks & 73, Dick- K9OM


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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver frequency adjustment

[RVZ via Elecraft]

Hi Guys,

My K3 receiver is a little off frequency compared to the frequency stations are 
spotted at.  I realize that Packet Spots aren't always posted on frequency, but 
after viewing thousands of Spots which were posted by dozens of different 
sources, on average the actual frequency the station is received at averages 
0.2 khz higher on the band then where it was spotted.  I'm wondering what 
options are available for adjusting the K3 receiver frequency?  Is there a 
receiver frequency adjustment within the K3 Utility? Thanks & 73, Dick- K9OM
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Thank you Don!!  I was trying to get a general feel for what to expect, 
a  ms, or us type of answer...


I was thinking of using the IF to avoid the DSP filters for just the 
reasons you cited.  I am sure you are correct about testing-- time to 
break out the scope...


Thanks again for your insight!

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
Award Manager, 30MDG Grid Contest
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 1/13/19 1:08 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Dave,

I would be cautious about looking only at the IF.  That is all in front 
of the DSP.
Certainly the DSP creates some latency, but that is not what we are 
talking about.  The DSP latency will delay all signals.


So test in the configuration that you will likely use.  If using the IF 
output, then test only at the IF.


Your question relates to the recovery time for the entire receiver.
And that does include the filters, both roofing filters and the DSP 
filtering.


Don't forget that the Hardware AGC cannot be turned off, but that does 
not come into play until the signal is greater than S-9+60


As A result, I believe you need to do actual testing with your 
particular K3 under various filtering conditions.
In other words, you are asking a very complex question, and you have not 
given us the other configuration settings and filters to be used - other 
than AGC OFF.  For that reason, your K3 may have a different answer than 
others.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 3:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hi Don,

Thanks for the combined brain power!  I have a plan for testing if it 
ever gets that far.  I am just trying to see if the K3 receiver 
recovers sufficiently fast in a general sort of way first.


I believe I could look at RF levels on the IF while transmitting, 
(using a different transmitter and a storage scope to look at the K3 
IF), then just drop the carrier while still looking at the levels with 
that scope.   When I see signals return to the IF I have the recovery 
time of the receiver.


I am just trying to skip that step hoping someone actually knows the 
recovery time of the receiver, as opposed to actual testing.


If the K3 is even close, I will set up test jig for it, if not, then 
I'll look for a better way.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

I would be cautious about looking only at the IF.  That is all in front 
of the DSP.
Certainly the DSP creates some latency, but that is not what we are 
talking about.  The DSP latency will delay all signals.


So test in the configuration that you will likely use.  If using the IF 
output, then test only at the IF.


Your question relates to the recovery time for the entire receiver.
And that does include the filters, both roofing filters and the DSP 
filtering.


Don't forget that the Hardware AGC cannot be turned off, but that does 
not come into play until the signal is greater than S-9+60


As A result, I believe you need to do actual testing with your 
particular K3 under various filtering conditions.
In other words, you are asking a very complex question, and you have not 
given us the other configuration settings and filters to be used - other 
than AGC OFF.  For that reason, your K3 may have a different answer than 
others.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 3:43 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hi Don,

Thanks for the combined brain power!  I have a plan for testing if it 
ever gets that far.  I am just trying to see if the K3 receiver recovers 
sufficiently fast in a general sort of way first.


I believe I could look at RF levels on the IF while transmitting, (using 
a different transmitter and a storage scope to look at the K3 IF), then 
just drop the carrier while still looking at the levels with that scope. 
  When I see signals return to the IF I have the recovery time of the 
receiver.


I am just trying to skip that step hoping someone actually knows the 
recovery time of the receiver, as opposed to actual testing.


If the K3 is even close, I will set up test jig for it, if not, then 
I'll look for a better way.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the combined brain power!  I have a plan for testing if it 
ever gets that far.  I am just trying to see if the K3 receiver recovers 
sufficiently fast in a general sort of way first.


I believe I could look at RF levels on the IF while transmitting, (using 
a different transmitter and a storage scope to look at the K3 IF), then 
just drop the carrier while still looking at the levels with that scope. 
 When I see signals return to the IF I have the recovery time of the 
receiver.


I am just trying to skip that step hoping someone actually knows the 
recovery time of the receiver, as opposed to actual testing.


If the K3 is even close, I will set up test jig for it, if not, then 
I'll look for a better way.


Thanks again for your thoughts here!

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
Award Manager, 30MDG Grid Contest
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 1/13/19 11:53 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Dave,

I am trying to think of how you might test it.
The best I can think of is to listen to both a noise source and an XG3 
sending a CW string of dots.  Increase the speed of the CW sent by the 
XG3 until you can no longer hear the noise source between dits.
Then either calculate the off times for the dits or measure it on an 
oscilloscope.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 2:07 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hi again Scott,

Thank you for your answer, but I am not being clear.

Not during break in, just sitting there in receive...  If the radio is 
hit with an S9+ signal, how long after the S9+ signal terminates 
before the K3 receiver recovers enough to show an weak signal on the 
IF...  No T/R happening, just sitting there in receive.


You are close to what I am looking for...  I am investigating the 
possibility of using the K3 as the receiver portion in a homebrew 
bistatic radar setup running in the HF spectrum.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[K9MA]

You ought to be able to measure it by simply looking at the audio output 
with a scope. Just send some dits and look at how long it takes for the 
noise to reappear. You might have to use a noise source, or a low level 
carrier at a slightly different frequency.


Of course, with the AGC off and RF gain high enough to detect a weak 
signal, things are going to overload. I'd run the test first with a test 
signal which does not overload the receiver, and then one equivalent to 
a very strong signal. When actually listening to the radio with AGC off, 
of course, it is essential to use the audio clipper to prevent hearing 
damage. That may or may not affect recovery time.


73,
Scott K9MA

On 1/13/2019 13:53, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Dave,

I am trying to think of how you might test it.
The best I can think of is to listen to both a noise source and an XG3 
sending a CW string of dots.  Increase the speed of the CW sent by the 
XG3 until you can no longer hear the noise source between dits.
Then either calculate the off times for the dits or measure it on an 
oscilloscope.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 2:07 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hi again Scott,

Thank you for your answer, but I am not being clear.

Not during break in, just sitting there in receive...  If the radio 
is hit with an S9+ signal, how long after the S9+ signal terminates 
before the K3 receiver recovers enough to show an weak signal on the 
IF...  No T/R happening, just sitting there in receive.


You are close to what I am looking for...  I am investigating the 
possibility of using the K3 as the receiver portion in a homebrew 
bistatic radar setup running in the HF spectrum.

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--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

I am trying to think of how you might test it.
The best I can think of is to listen to both a noise source and an XG3 
sending a CW string of dots.  Increase the speed of the CW sent by the 
XG3 until you can no longer hear the noise source between dits.
Then either calculate the off times for the dits or measure it on an 
oscilloscope.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 2:07 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hi again Scott,

Thank you for your answer, but I am not being clear.

Not during break in, just sitting there in receive...  If the radio is 
hit with an S9+ signal, how long after the S9+ signal terminates before 
the K3 receiver recovers enough to show an weak signal on the IF...  No 
T/R happening, just sitting there in receive.


You are close to what I am looking for...  I am investigating the 
possibility of using the K3 as the receiver portion in a homebrew 
bistatic radar setup running in the HF spectrum.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Hi again Scott,

Thank you for your answer, but I am not being clear.

Not during break in, just sitting there in receive...  If the radio is 
hit with an S9+ signal, how long after the S9+ signal terminates before 
the K3 receiver recovers enough to show an weak signal on the IF...  No 
T/R happening, just sitting there in receive.


You are close to what I am looking for...  I am investigating the 
possibility of using the K3 as the receiver portion in a homebrew 
bistatic radar setup running in the HF spectrum.


73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
Award Manager, 30MDG Grid Contest
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 1/13/19 10:25 AM, K9MA wrote:

On 1/13/2019 12:10, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Is it faster than .0001 ms?


Certainly not. I'm not sure whether it is recovery time or latency, but 
in full break-in mode, you hear nothing between the dits above something 
like 10 wpm. (Even with AGC off.) With other non-DSP receivers, one can 
hear between the dits up to at least 30 wpm with fast AGC. Perhaps it's 
just the price we pay for the power of DSP.


Many years ago, when there were sunspots, I recall hearing multiple 
echos on 15 meters. I timed them, and the time interval was about 133 
ms, just about the time it takes radio waves to circumnavigate the 
earth. I heard them go around at least twice, and that was receiving off 
the back of a beam. Talk about long path! That would not have been 
possible with a DSP receiver.


73,

Scott K9MA


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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[K9MA]

On 1/13/2019 12:10, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Is it faster than .0001 ms?


Certainly not. I'm not sure whether it is recovery time or latency, but 
in full break-in mode, you hear nothing between the dits above something 
like 10 wpm. (Even with AGC off.) With other non-DSP receivers, one can 
hear between the dits up to at least 30 wpm with fast AGC. Perhaps it's 
just the price we pay for the power of DSP.


Many years ago, when there were sunspots, I recall hearing multiple 
echos on 15 meters. I timed them, and the time interval was about 133 
ms, just about the time it takes radio waves to circumnavigate the 
earth. I heard them go around at least twice, and that was receiving off 
the back of a beam. Talk about long path! That would not have been 
possible with a DSP receiver.


73,

Scott K9MA

--
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k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Is it faster than .0001 ms?

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
Award Manager, 30MDG Grid Contest
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 1/13/19 9:06 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Dave,

That depends on slow or fast AGC and the setting of the AGC DCY menu 
parameter.

Fast is very quick - just watch the S-meter to get some visual indication.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 11:49 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hello,

Anyone able to answer this question please?

In the presence of a strong signal, say -75 db, (or around S9), once 
that signal ceases, how long does it take the K3 receiver to return to 
normal receive capability again?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Sorry, I forgot to add, AGC off...

73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
Award Manager, 30MDG Grid Contest
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon

On 1/13/19 9:06 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Dave,

That depends on slow or fast AGC and the setting of the AGC DCY menu 
parameter.

Fast is very quick - just watch the S-meter to get some visual indication.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 11:49 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hello,

Anyone able to answer this question please?

In the presence of a strong signal, say -75 db, (or around S9), once 
that signal ceases, how long does it take the K3 receiver to return to 
normal receive capability again?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

That depends on slow or fast AGC and the setting of the AGC DCY menu 
parameter.

Fast is very quick - just watch the S-meter to get some visual indication.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/13/2019 11:49 AM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

Hello,

Anyone able to answer this question please?

In the presence of a strong signal, say -75 db, (or around S9), once 
that signal ceases, how long does it take the K3 receiver to return to 
normal receive capability again?



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[Elecraft] K3: Receiver recovery time

[Dave Cole (NK7Z)]

Hello,

Anyone able to answer this question please?

In the presence of a strong signal, say -75 db, (or around S9), once 
that signal ceases, how long does it take the K3 receiver to return to 
normal receive capability again?


--
73s and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
Award Manager, 30MDG Grid Contest
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL OOC for Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver IMD

[KC0G via Elecraft]

OE3HKL has details of this work on his web site.  Open:
 www.oe3hkl.con
in Google Translate and go to "RF Measurements" and then "IM measuring station" 
in the menu.


73  John  KC0G




On Thu Apr 5 00:57:16 EDT 2018, Benny Aumala,  
wrote : 
> FUNKAMATEUR 4-2018 has interesting article by OE3HKL for
> broadband impulse measurements of RX IMD.
> SNIP
> Benny   OH9NB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver IMD

[Walter Underwood]

I presume it is the article "Breitbandimpulse zur Messung der Intermodulation 
an Empfängern”, but I don’t see a freely available version on the web.

http://www.funkamateur.de/inhaltsverzeichnis.html

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:45 PM, Jan Erik Holm  wrote:
> 
> It would be very interesting to read that article
> but I don´t have Funkamateur magazine.
> 
> / Jim SM2EKM
> 
> On 2018-04-05 06:57, Benny Aumala wrote:
>> FUNKAMATEUR 4-2018 has interesting article by OE3HKL for
>> broadbad impulse measurements of RX IMD.
>> Arrangements are interesting and elaborate, but result is simple:
>> K3 compared to other commercial equipments is absolute winner.
>> Compared to RX/OE3HKL, FT-1000 Field, IC-751A, IC-7300.
>> Benny   OH9NB
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver IMD

[ROCCON GRAZIANO GIULIANO]

Me too, but seems that the magazine is only in German language.

Unfortunately, German is not one of the 8 languages that i know :-)

73's de iw2noy


Il 05/04/2018 08:45, Jan Erik Holm ha scritto:

It would be very interesting to read that article
but I don´t have Funkamateur magazine.

/ Jim SM2EKM

On 2018-04-05 06:57, Benny Aumala wrote:

FUNKAMATEUR 4-2018 has interesting article by OE3HKL for

broadbad impulse measurements of RX IMD.

Arrangements are interesting and elaborate, but result is simple:

K3 compared to other commercial equipments is absolute winner.

Compared to RX/OE3HKL, FT-1000 Field, IC-751A, IC-7300.

Benny   OH9NB


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver IMD

[Jan Erik Holm]

It would be very interesting to read that article
but I don´t have Funkamateur magazine.

/ Jim SM2EKM

On 2018-04-05 06:57, Benny Aumala wrote:

FUNKAMATEUR 4-2018 has interesting article by OE3HKL for

broadbad impulse measurements of RX IMD.

Arrangements are interesting and elaborate, but result is simple:

K3 compared to other commercial equipments is absolute winner.

Compared to RX/OE3HKL, FT-1000 Field, IC-751A, IC-7300.

Benny   OH9NB


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[Elecraft] K3 receiver IMD

[Benny Aumala]

FUNKAMATEUR 4-2018 has interesting article by OE3HKL for

broadbad impulse measurements of RX IMD.

Arrangements are interesting and elaborate, but result is simple:

K3 compared to other commercial equipments is absolute winner.

Compared to RX/OE3HKL, FT-1000 Field, IC-751A, IC-7300.

Benny   OH9NB


---
Avast Antivirus on tarkistanut tämän sähköpostin virusten varalta.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Mike Cox  wrote:

> If CONFIG:PB CTRL is set to .01 in CW mode, then, per the function
> description in the K3 Owners Manual (pp. 62 in Manual Revision A1), you
> will be limited to the Shift/Width controls mode only. Change PB CTRL to
> .05 and you will also enable LO/HI cut on the controls.


The K3 Owners Manual is up to revision D10 dated 8/24/2011 with errata
D10-8 dated 3/31/2015.

Seeing as both are PDF's and fully searchable, probably need to be current
as opposed to something dated back in 2007. Only 8 years out of date.

However, the warning you quoted is still in the newer text.

For myself, not being able to do 10 Hz shift is an issue for CW and the
very steep skirts using a roofing filter with DSP width set to the roofer
width. If the guy up or down gets a little too loud, just a dime Hz shift
or two or three will drop him right out. 50 Hz is way too coarse for that.

Also for normal QSK (not the one which turns on the display +), which *is*
very good with the new synthesizers, I do NOT lose RIT or XIT in QSK. With
the new syns regular QSK is more than adequate to hear between dits or
letters at 30 wpm on the RX antenna.

This is in spite of my having the Microham box and it's built-in WinKey
functions set for unbroken PTT assert to the Alpha 8410 on the TX antenna
until a word space has gone by. The K3 can't do RX/TX one way and it's PTT
out another.

So what I have is the very best of the fast and the very best of the slow
at the same time. I only hear in the right ear on the subRX when the 8410
is keyed, and I hear in between the dits. This allows me to hear when
someone calls late, just a bit after I start calling CQ again on a run.

Best of the fast.

But even though the K3 is cycling TX/RX very fast the 8410 is not banging
the vacuum relay to death trying to follow 30 wpm dits. 30 wpm QSK *does*
significantly shorten relay time to failure. Contesting, I've worn some out
in less than a year.

So to save me that, the Microham box keys up the amp with it's PTT before
it starts the key sequence to the K3. That's because *both* the paddle and
the PC logging program stream go to the Microham box which in turn keys the
K3. I also have inverted the Microham PTT keying to control 12 volt supply
to protect some sensitive stuff, better off not powered during TX.

Best of the slow.

Gotta say, if you don't have the new syns in your K3, that is an absolute
top-run improvement.

73, Guy K2AV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Mike Cox]

If CONFIG:PB CTRL is set to .01 in CW mode, then, per the function 
description in the K3 Owners Manual (pp. 62 in Manual Revision A1), you 
will be limited to the Shift/Width controls mode only. Change PB CTRL to 
.05 and you will also enable LO/HI cut on the controls.


73,
Mike

On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ted Bryant]

Hello F5VJC,

 

Yes!  You are correct.  Thank you.  That solved the problem.

 

73, Ted W4NZ

 

 

From: F5vjc [mailto:foxfive@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:48 AM
To: Ted Bryant
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

 

CONFIG PB CTRL SHIFT (set to .05) if set to .01 will cause this.

 

73 F5VJC

 

 

On 26 February 2017 at 16:13, Ted Bryant <w...@comcast.net> wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =

faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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delivered to w...@comcast.net


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ted Bryant]

Thanks  Joe, Randy and Ken.  But the CW QRQ says it is OFF.  There is no "+"
showing, either.

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe
Subich, W4TV
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 10:29 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush


Do you have QRQ mode selected (+ showing in the display)?

 From the Owner's Manual, page 54: > Filter passband SHIFT/LOCUT/HICUT
cannot be used when CW QRQ is in
> effect.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:
> In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
> neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
> when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
> displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
> Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
> through the release notes but see nothing.
>
> Using the latest firmware: 5.57
>
> 73, Ted W4NZ
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
> On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for
contesting
> with a K3 and large CW pileups.
>
> Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
> all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
> very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
> paragraphs.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> -   -   -  -   -   -   -
>
> First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set
CONFIG:TECH
> MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
> appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)
>
> *AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on
Heil.
>
> *AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)
>
> *AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups
>
> *AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
> recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.
>
> *AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC
>
> *AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
> since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
> because it saves my ears.
>
> *AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave
as
> they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)
>
> *AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher
=
> faster.Faster can be bad.
>
> *AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
> faster.Faster can be bad.
>
> *RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
> very low (e.g. 10m)
>
> *AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock
>
> *AFX OFF*
>
> *NR OFF*
>
> *NB OFF*
>
> *RIT OFF*
>
> *XIT OFF*
>
>
> FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
> narrower.
>
> Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.
>
> Use *AGC-S* for SSB.
>
> CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)
>
> 500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW
>
> 2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
> SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)
>
> Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
> than NOR (hold) button
>
> *PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands
>
> __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ken K3IU]

I am using 5.57 here and tapping either the shift or width 
knobs causes the function to cycle between Lo/HI and 
Shift/Width with the Green LEDs to switch as well.

73, Ken K3IU
~~
On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting

with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

Do you have QRQ mode selected (+ showing in the display)?

From the Owner's Manual, page 54: > Filter passband SHIFT/LOCUT/HICUT 
cannot be used when CW QRQ is in

effect.


73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/26/2017 10:13 AM, Ted Bryant wrote:

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting

with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ted Bryant]

In playing with Bob N6TV's suggested settings, I've discovered that on CW,
neither the Shift->LO Cut nor the Width->HI Cut controls change functions
when tapped.  They appear fixed at SHIFT and WIDTH.  Tapping them merely
displays their current setting.  On SSB, they change and work as expected.
Is there a parameter setting somewhere that affects this?  I've looked
through the release notes but see nothing.

Using the latest firmware: 5.57

73, Ted W4NZ


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 1:54 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Peter Eijlander (PA0PJE)]

You are right, Matt.
No HTML, no attachments
73,
Peter - PA0PJE

Op 24-02-17 om 20:42 schreef Matt Zilmer:

The problem might be that the reflector doesn't pass HTML, just text.
I'm not sure about this, but remember reading it somewhere.

73,

matt W6NIA

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[N2TK, Tony]

I concur Ed. On SSB when running stations I will only mess with the HI CUT.
Wil crank it down to 2.1. The intelligibility is still good. Sometimes I
forget and just leave it at that setting for the entire contest. It makes it
so you can squeeze in between two other strong stations so that all three
can keep running. Will give it a go again next weekend at KP2M with K3 #311.

73,
N2TK, Tony

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ed
Muns
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:14 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I concur with most, but not all, of N6TV's recommendations below.  If we all
agreed on all the CONFIG parameters they wouldn't need to be variable!

One that I particularly disagree with is how to narrow the IF bandwidth in
SSB mode.  The recommendation to narrow the bandwidth and then lower the IF
Shift is unnecessarily cumbersome on SSB.  After going through these
gyrations, you'll find that the LO CUT is where it was before you started.
So, all that needs to be done to narrow the SSB IF bandwidth is simply
decrease HI CUT.  One quick, easy operation and the audio is entirely
intelligible throughout the adjustment.

Ed W0YK
___ 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: 24 February, 2017 10:54
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for 
> contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set CONFIG:TECH
MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from accidentally
appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD,
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave as
they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher =
faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise are
very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or
narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF
SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, rather
than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I generally run AGC off and the rf gain is never fully open.  I will 
continue to play with settings.


My settings were fairly close but I will try these.

Thanks for the guide!

W0MU


On 2/24/2017 12:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for 
contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.


Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or 
punctuation, so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a 
word processor and added paragraphs.


73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set 
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from 
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)


*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on 
Heil.


*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD, 
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using 
AGC-F.


*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this 
lower since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this 
setting because it saves my ears.


*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR 
behave as they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)


*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.


*AGC –S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.


*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise 
are very low (e.g. 10m)


*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider 
or narrower.


Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must 
move IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)


Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, 
rather than NOR (hold) button


*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ed Muns]

I concur with most, but not all, of N6TV's recommendations below.  If we all
agreed on all the CONFIG parameters they wouldn't need to be variable!

One that I particularly disagree with is how to narrow the IF bandwidth in
SSB mode.  The recommendation to narrow the bandwidth and then lower the IF
Shift is unnecessarily cumbersome on SSB.  After going through these
gyrations, you'll find that the LO CUT is where it was before you started.
So, all that needs to be done to narrow the SSB IF bandwidth is simply
decrease HI CUT.  One quick, easy operation and the audio is entirely
intelligible throughout the adjustment.

Ed W0YK
___ 

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: 24 February, 2017 10:54
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.

Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, 
so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor 
and added paragraphs.

73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set 
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from 
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)

*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD, 
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.

*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower 
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting 
because it saves my ears.

*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave 
as they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)

*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.

*AGC -S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher 
= faster.Faster can be bad.

*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise 
are very low (e.g. 10m)

*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider 
or narrower.

Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move 
IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, 
rather than NOR (hold) button

*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

My email from Jim has each parameter on a separate line with double spacing
between each descriptive comment.

It looks fine on my printer.

73, Charlie k3ICH



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bob
Wilson, N6TV
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 2:32 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector <elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jim Brown <j...@audiosystemsgroup.com>
wrote:

> On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>
>> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for 
>> contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.
>>
>
> Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
> they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or 
> punctuation, so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a 
> word processor and added paragraphs.


Thanks Jim,

I'm new to this reflector, so I'm puzzled by the misformatting.  I made my
post using the web interface (Nabble), carefully formatting the HTML with
the supplied editor.  It looked fine in Preview, and still looks good in the
"View this message in context" HTML link at the bottom of the email, but it
really looks awful in the plain text email.

Try this:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a762732
3

Some may want to bookmark this direct link above

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Don Wilhelm]

That is a very good list to combat crowded band conditions and allow 
copy of weak signals near stronger signals.


For the last few items on that list, you may want to consider 
alternatives for selecting the filters and the use of SHIFT.  It is a 
matter of "operating style" - I know Bob is comfortable with his, but I 
would like to present something a bit different for those not yet 
'ingrained' in their operating habits.


If you use the SHIFT and WIDTH knobs in CW, the filters will change as 
you move the WIDTH knob - this is an alternative to using the XFIL 
button.  Only seldom do you have touch the shift, but it may be handy 
for moving an offending signal out of the passband.  Normally SHIFT 
would be set to your preferred sidetone pitch.


For SSB, tap the SHIFT or WIDTH knob to get the LO CUT/HI Cut LEDs to 
illuminate - then you can narrow the passband with the LO CUT and HI CUT 
knobs - no need to change the SHIFT for pleasing audio, it will happen 
automatically.


You cannot cut the LO end drastically (only up to about 550Hz) before 
the signal intelligibility is affected, but you can cut the HI end 
substantially (down to about 1500Hz) before the signal becomes unreadable.


I find this method much easier than fiddling with the SHIFT in SSB and 
the XFIL button.  I never touch the XFIL button, the filters follow the 
width of the DSP no matter what the mode.


73,
Don W3FPR



On 2/24/2017 1:54 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move
IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)

Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift,
rather than NOR (hold) button


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Matt Zilmer]

The problem might be that the reflector doesn't pass HTML, just text.  
I'm not sure about this, but remember reading it somewhere.


73,

matt W6NIA


On 2/24/2017 11:31 AM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jim Brown 
wrote:


On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:


For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for
contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.


Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
paragraphs.


Thanks Jim,

I'm new to this reflector, so I'm puzzled by the misformatting.  I made my
post using the web interface (Nabble), carefully formatting the HTML with
the supplied editor.  It looked fine in Preview, and still looks good in
the "View this message in context" HTML link at the bottom of the email,
but it really looks awful in the plain text email.

Try this:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

Some may want to bookmark this direct link above

73,
Bob, N6TV
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--
Pull the curtain, Fred.  It won't be long now.

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
[Shiraz]

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Jim Brown 
wrote:

> On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:
>
>> For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for
>> contesting with a K3 and large CW pileups.
>>
>
> Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But they're
> all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, so it's
> very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor and added
> paragraphs.


Thanks Jim,

I'm new to this reflector, so I'm puzzled by the misformatting.  I made my
post using the web interface (Nabble), carefully formatting the HTML with
the supplied editor.  It looked fine in Preview, and still looks good in
the "View this message in context" HTML link at the bottom of the email,
but it really looks awful in the plain text email.

Try this:

http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-mush-td7627277.html#a7627323

Some may want to bookmark this direct link above

73,
Bob, N6TV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Jim Brown]

On Thu,2/23/2017 6:32 PM, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting with 
a K3 and large CW pileups.


Bob's a great op, so I really appreciate seeing his settings. But 
they're all run together in his email with no paragraphs or punctuation, 
so it's very hard to read. I copied his settings into a word processor 
and added paragraphs.


73, Jim K9YC

-   -   -  -   -   -   -

First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.Set 
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF when finished, to eliminate distracting values from 
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)


*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.May not work with all headphones.OK on Heil.

*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes effect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)

*AGC DCY Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups

*AGC HLD 0.05* -- Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).Reduces AGC-induced IMD, 
recommended for pileups.Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.


*AGC PLS NOR* -- Loud static pulses do not pump AGC

*AGC SLP 010*-- A pretty "flat" AGC response curve.I may move this lower 
since pileups of loud guys can blend together, but I like this setting 
because it saves my ears.


*AGC THR 010* -- AGC kicks in at about S-8.Signals lower than THR behave 
as they would with AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)


*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast AGC decay rate (recovery 
time).Higher = faster.Faster can be bad.


*AGC –S 20*-- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).Higher 
= faster.Faster can be bad.


*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all signals and band noise 
are very low (e.g. 10m)


*AF GAIN* never higher than 3 O'Clock

*AFX OFF*

*NR OFF*

*NB OFF*

*RIT OFF*

*XIT OFF*


FL1 to FL5 BW set to match labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider 
or narrower.


Use *AGC-F* or *AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.

Use *AGC-S* for SSB.

CW Pitch 500 (or to taste), IF shift centered (on CW)

500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW

2.8 kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move 
IF SHIFT lower for pleasing audio*)


Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and reset the IF shift, 
rather than NOR (hold) button


*PREamp ON* for 15m and up, *PREamp OFF* for all other bands

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Bob Wilson, N6TV]

w0mu wrote
> What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these
> setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?I
> assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?

Ken,
When you experienced the mush, did you have the AGC ON, but the RF Gain set
to max, as most people usually do with any other modern radio?  In my
experience, setting RF GAIN max *will cause unacceptable pileup mush in the
K3*, even if you use optimal AGC settings.*
When you can't pull apart a pileup, just back off the RF Gain until some
stations start to stand out.  You can leave the AGC ON all the time.
For reference, here are my preferred AGC and other settings for contesting
with a K3 and large CW pileups.  Others have also reported success with
these.
First, set *CONFIG:TECH MD ON* to un-hide some AGC settings.  Set
CONFIG:TECH MD OFF *when finished*, to eliminate distracting values from
accidentally appearing in the SubRx display (PLL1, AFV, dBV, etc.)
*AF GAIN LO* -- Cuts audio hiss.  May not work with all headphones.  OK on
Heil.*AF LIM 20* -- Only takes affect when AGC is OFF (rarely used)*AGC DCY
Soft* -- Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for pileups*AGC HLD 0.05* --
Slow AGC hold time (50 ms).  Reduces AGC-induced IMD, recommended for
pileups.  Works with AGC-S only, no affect when using AGC-F.*AGC PLS NOR* --
Loud static pulses do not pump AGC*AGC SLP 010*  -- A pretty "flat" AGC
response curve.  I may move this lower since pileups of loud guys can blend
together, but I like this setting because it saves my ears.*AGC THR 010* --
AGC kicks in at about S-8.  Signals lower than THR behave as they would with
AGC OFF ( +1 dB of RF = +1 dB of audio)*AGC -F 120* -- Factory default fast
AGC decay rate (recovery time).  Higher = faster.  Faster can be bad.*AGC -S
20*  -- Factory default slow AGC decay rate (recovery time).  Higher =
faster.  Faster can be bad.*RF GAIN at 3 O'Clock or less* except when all
signals and band noise are very low (e.g. 10m)*AF GAIN* never higher than 3
O'Clock*AFX OFF**NR OFF**NB OFF**RIT OFF**XIT OFF*FL1 to FL5 BW set to match
labeled filter bandwidth exactly, not wider or narrower.Use *AGC-F* or
*AGC-S* for CW, whatever works best for you.Use *AGC-S* for SSB.CW Pitch 500
(or to taste)IF shift centered (on CW)500 Hz InRad 8-pole filter on CW2.8
kHz 8-pole filter on SSB (1.8 8-pole when bands crowded, *must move IF SHIFT
lower for pleasing audio*)Use *XFIL* button to toggle between filters and
reset the IF shift, rather than NOR (hold) button*PREamp ON* for 15m and up,
*PREamp OFF* for all other bands
Hope this helps.
73,
Bob, N6TV



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The hardware AGC engages at about -45 (S9 + 20 dB).  That is most
certainly the final flattening you are seeing in the transfer
characteristic.

Otherwise the slope for each slp setting will generate roughly parallel
transfer curves from the threshold point (witness the parallel curves
for all of the SLP 15 cases as well as for Thr 8, SLP 7 and THR 15,
SLP 7).  K8ZOA produced similar curves showing parallel behavior with
SLP held constant as the threshold is changed.  See:
  <http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_agc_and_s-meter.htm>

Jack also derived charts showing the change in output (audio) level
per 10 dB of input (RF) level for each value of slope (SLP) and the
signal level for  AGC Threshold (THR).  That information can be found
in the same article.  Unfortunately, Jack's data is from very early
firmware and was not repeated after the firmware was never updated to
include values for THR greater than 8.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2/23/2017 2:58 PM, Cady, Fred wrote:

http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information/agc-4-51


The transfer characteristic is pretty linear from an input signal of nearly 
-120 dBm to about -45 dBm with AGC off.  Signals above that are being clipped 
by some other non-linear process, probably the hardware AGC.I don't 
remember if I had the AF LIM on when I took these data.

Cheers,

Fred KE7X




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of W0MU Mike Fatchett 
<w...@w0mu.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:08 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these
setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?

I assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?


On 2/22/2017 1:54 PM, Irma Linas wrote:

Hi everybody,

Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
on your K3 radios!
73 de Linas LY2H
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information/agc-4-51


The transfer characteristic is pretty linear from an input signal of nearly 
-120 dBm to about -45 dBm with AGC off.  Signals above that are being clipped 
by some other non-linear process, probably the hardware AGC.I don't 
remember if I had the AF LIM on when I took these data.

Cheers,

Fred KE7X




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of W0MU Mike 
Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:08 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these
setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?

I assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?


On 2/22/2017 1:54 PM, Irma Linas wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
> settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
> turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
> to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
> Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
> signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
> What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
> problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
> filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
> signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
> increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
> to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
> low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
> equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
> You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
> stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
> one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
> I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
> on your K3 radios!
> 73 de Linas LY2H
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

What happens when you turn the AGC off and ride the rf gain?  Do these 
setting still have some effect or should they be set up differently?


I assume when you use 12/8/soft most people are using AGC-F?


On 2/22/2017 1:54 PM, Irma Linas wrote:

Hi everybody,

Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
on your K3 radios!
73 de Linas LY2H
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

Perhaps what I should have said is that the slope of the gain curve for a given 
value of SLP changes as THR gets higher.  See the curve at 
http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information/agc-4-51

As you can see, when THR is 20, the curve for SLP=15, SLP=7, and SLP=0 are 
virtually identical.  For lower THR levels, you can see the affect of different 
SLP values.


Cheers,

Fred




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of ab2tc 
<ab...@arrl.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 8:59 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Hi Fred,

I think that's fairly easy to explain. *Below* threshold the AGC does not
act at all so the SLP settings *should* have no effect. It comes into effect
as soon as signal rises above threshold.

AB2 TC - Knut


Cady, Fred-2 wrote
> Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.
>
> To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best
> discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.
> When working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and
> makes signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for
> general rag chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also
> affect SLP.  For high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan
> explained that once but I'm not sure why that is so.
>
>
> BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values
> for different operating conditions.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred KE7X
>
>
> For all KE7X books (and other information) see
> www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com<http://www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com>;.
>
>
> snip>





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[ab2tc]

Hi Fred,

I think that's fairly easy to explain. *Below* threshold the AGC does not
act at all so the SLP settings *should* have no effect. It comes into effect
as soon as signal rises above threshold.

AB2 TC - Knut


Cady, Fred-2 wrote
> Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.
> 
> To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best
> discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level. 
> When working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and
> makes signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for
> general rag chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also
> affect SLP.  For high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan
> explained that once but I'm not sure why that is so.
> 
> 
> BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values
> for different operating conditions.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Fred KE7X
> 
> 
> For all KE7X books (and other information) see
> www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com;.
> 
> 
> snip>





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I had a problem with clicks on return to receive with older firmware, 
quite a while back. Make sure you have the latest FW. Wayne fixed a bug 
which made a big improvement.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 22 Feb 2017 22:06, Ed G wrote:


When I change the AGC settings to those recommended to minimize the mush:

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR).

It seems to my ears that I am hearing louder clicks when the K3 switches
back to receive (CW of course). I know the clicks were a problem lots of
folks commented on a few years ago.

--Ed--

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Ed G]

When I change the AGC settings to those recommended to minimize the mush:

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less 

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). 

It seems to my ears that I am hearing louder clicks when the K3 switches
back to receive (CW of course). I know the clicks were a problem lots of
folks commented on a few years ago.

--Ed--



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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Irma Linas]

Hi everybody,

Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
on your K3 radios!
73 de Linas LY2H
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ignacy]

I experienced the mush as well and then rode the RF gain.

The problem is due to AGC reacting way too fast when in FAST. It seems that
higher HLD should solve the issue but it does not. I am wondering whether
HLD is applicable to AGC SLOW only? If so, the other choice is to reprogram
AGC SLOW, as K2AV does. Perhaps it completely solves the problem, as Guys
writes that he uses the fast AGC only during QRN. 

I am not sure whether AGC is mode specific as AGC slow needs to be really
slower for SSB and casual operation. If AGC is not mode specific, this means
reprogramming AGC SLOW before and after every contest. 

Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Drew AF2Z]

Yes, I have assigned SLP & THR to M1 tap & M1 hold. Then tap or hold M1 
and dial in the SLP or THR value as needed.



73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 02/22/17 12:07, Cady, Fred wrote:

Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.

To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best 
discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.  When 
working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and makes 
signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for general rag 
chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also affect SLP.  For 
high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan explained that once but 
I'm not sure why that is so.


BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values for 
different operating conditions.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X books (and other information) see 
www.ke7x.com<http://www.ke7x.com>.




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Ian White 
<gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:42 AM
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This

was

a major point of discussion a while b

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.

To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best 
discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.  When 
working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and makes 
signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for general rag 
chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also affect SLP.  For 
high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan explained that once but 
I'm not sure why that is so.


BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values for 
different operating conditions.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X books (and other information) see 
www.ke7x.com<http://www.ke7x.com>.




From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of Ian White 
<gm3...@ifwtech.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:42 AM
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.





>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>W0MU Mike Fatchett
>Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
>To: Elecraft Reflector
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
>I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.
>
>I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.
>
>I just think this is something that most people just never see. This
was
>a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
>the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
>same effects.
>
>

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Thanks.

My threshhold was at 8  I have moved it up to 12.  Slope was zero but I 
change it all the time hoping for a miracle!  HI!


I am going to have to borrow another rig when I get back and see if I 
see the same things on another brand.


W0MU


On 2/22/2017 1:42 AM, Ian White wrote:

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."
  
The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of

"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.
  
More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51

"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This

was

a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
same effects.

In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.

I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might
be and if they are still seeing this issue.

W0MU



On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the
AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that

fact.

If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.

That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but

it

is a viable way to operat

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Richard Ferch]

Actually it's not the 250 Hz roofing filter that is too narrow, it is the
250 Hz DSP filter setting. If you ignore the label on the roofing filter
and configure the K3 to switch the 250 Hz crystal filter in at the 350 Hz
DSP setting, the combination (350 Hz DSP, 250 Hz roofing filter) works fine
for those situations where there is a very strong signal right next door.
The rest of the time I prefer to operate with a 400-450 Hz DSP bandwidth
and a 500 Hz roofing filter.

73,
Rich VE3KI


N1MGO wrote:

I do lots of rtty contesting.  I have found the 400Hz filter to be
just right for rtty.  The 250 is too narrow.  I then narrow the DSP
filter to 300Hz if needed, with the 400Hz Xtal filter in front.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Gordon LaPoint]

Dave,
I do lots of rtty contesting.  I have found the 400Hz filter to be 
just right for rtty.  The 250 is too narrow.  I then narrow the DSP 
filter to 300Hz if needed, with the 400Hz Xtal filter in front.

Gordon - N1MGO

On 02/21/2017 06:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such situations.
I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a different
selection in that scenario?
73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:





--
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

Thanks Ian for bringing all the info back to the list.

My settings: slope 9, thr 12, decay soft, pls nor, hld 0.20 , agc-s 20 
to 30 (depends...)


73,

Arie PA3A


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I remember this, and had forgotten what I set them at. I just looked and 
I see that I have SLP=003 and THR=14! That is practically no AGC at all. 
In contests I sometimes turn up the SLP to protect my ears, but for 
normal DXing this is what I've gotten used to and I like it.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 22 Feb 2017 09:42, Ian White wrote:

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.

__
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ian White]

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade). 

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows. 

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards. 

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."
 
The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible. 
 
More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better. 



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life. 





>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>W0MU Mike Fatchett
>Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
>To: Elecraft Reflector
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
>I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.
>
>I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.
>
>I just think this is something that most people just never see. This
was
>a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
>the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
>same effects.
>
>In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.
>
>I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might
>be and if they are still seeing this issue.
>
>W0MU
>
>
>
>On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Mike,
>>
>> Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the
>> AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that
fact.
>> If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
>> that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only
>> solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
>> offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
>> use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.
>>
>> That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but
it
>> is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
>> close to a strong station.
>>
>>

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This was 
a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way 
the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the 
same effects.


In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.

I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might 
be and if they are still seeing this issue.


W0MU



On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the 
AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong, 
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only 
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the 
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and 
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.


That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it 
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working 
close to a strong station.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:

We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
substantially.

I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.

My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
Latest firmware etc.



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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Dauer, Edward]

I haven’t tried this yet specifically to see if it can outwit the AGC, but it 
is often useful to flip to CW reverse to get the QRMer on the other side of the 
skirt.

But during a contest, like this past weekend, when no-one is supposed to be 
operating split, I don’t know how much an S station can do to dig under 
strong callers who are spot on the target.

Ted, KN1CBR

--

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2017 09:48:51 -0500
From: Don Wilhelm <donw...@embarqmail.com>
To: W0MU Mike Fatchett <w...@w0mu.com>, Elecraft Reflector
<elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
Message-ID: <80c5f984-1f08-126b-524d-0042e84f0...@embarqmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the AGC 
will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong, 
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only 
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the 
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and 
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.

That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it 
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working 
close to a strong station.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
> those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
> where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
> substantially.
>
> I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.
>
> My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
> Latest firmware etc.
>


--
 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ken G Kopp]

I'm pretty much full time CW and rarely leave the 400 Hz filter.

73

K0PP

On Feb 21, 2017 16:52, "Don Wilhelm"  wrote:

Dave,

Yes, a 400Hz filter will work well for RTTY (and CW too).

73,
Don W3FPR


On 2/21/2017 6:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

> Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
> RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
> from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
> what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
> Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
> filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
> issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
> easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
> signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
> or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
> weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
> signal in the IF passband.
> So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such
> situations. I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a
> different selection in that scenario?
> 73 de W0ZF
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  > wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband,
> the AGC
> will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
> If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
> that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only
> solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
> offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
> use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.
>
> That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it
> is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
> close to a strong station.
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Dave,

Yes, a 400Hz filter will work well for RTTY (and CW too).

73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 6:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:
Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a 
recent RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based 
on advice from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you 
get the feel for what other filters you need'. I think that's sound 
advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on 
DSP filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I 
often had issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very 
close by. It was easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd 
start copying a signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one 
would pop up just above or below that station. Even though I couldn't 
hear the strong station, the weak one would go nearly silent as the 
AGC kicked in due to the strong signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such 
situations. I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for 
a different selection in that scenario?

73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm > wrote:


Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband,
the AGC
will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.

That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
close to a strong station.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Dave Fugleberg]

Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such situations.
I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a different
selection in that scenario?
73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the AGC
> will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
> If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
> that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only
> solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
> offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
> use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.
>
> That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it
> is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
> close to a strong station.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> > We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
> > those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
> > where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
> > substantially.
> >
> > I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.
> >
> > My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
> > Latest firmware etc.
> >
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the AGC 
will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that fact.
If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong, 
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC.  The only 
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the 
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and 
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.


That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but it 
is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working 
close to a strong station.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 2/21/2017 9:25 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:

We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
substantially.

I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.

My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
Latest firmware etc.


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

Sounds like very strong signals with fast agc with its decay set well into
fast range. And if you have stations using spot frequency that will really
muddle them.

I have my fast agc set to its slowest possible decay and my slow agc set to
fastest possible decay. Then I only use the fast in heavy qrn.

73, Guy K2AV

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 9:26 AM W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all
> those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to
> where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up
> substantially.
>
> I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.
>
> My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.
> Latest firmware etc.
>
> Are others still seeing this issue?
>
> W0MU
>
>
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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

We noticed again during the contest hat when 3 or 4 stations called, all 
those signals would be flattened to the same level. Once you got to 
where one or two stations were calling the signal level would pop up 
substantially.


I have played endlessly with slope and threshold with little effect.

My K3 has the new syn boards as well and filters from 2.8 to 2.5.  
Latest firmware etc.


Are others still seeing this issue?

W0MU


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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver dead no output

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

My secondary K3 is having troubles.

It was working fine last night.  Turned it on this am and the receiver 
is very quiet.  I have to turn the knob way up to get the same output as 
last night and there is no output.


I did a ee init reset.  No change.  reloaded all the firmware, no change.

I had this happen a couple of weeks ago and the radio mysteriously 
repaired itself.


Can anyone give me some hints on what to look for?

The radio was back at Elecraft for updates, new pins etc about 6 months 
ago (or more) and then sat in the box for months.  Took it out about a 
month ago when I set up my new shack.


W0MU
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[Elecraft] K3 receiver noise figure with KRX3 option

[Alan Ibbetson]

I want to parallel the receivers on my recently-acquired K2 with my K3. 
I have the KXV3A RX ANT option on my K3 and K160RX option on my K2. The 
obvious way to couple the two is with a 3dB hybrid but that will cost 
me 3dB degradation in noise figure on both receivers.


The KRX3 option in the K3 has to address the same problem and I'm 
wondering if there are any clever tricks I can copy. I am finding the 
schematics hard to follow but I can see a 3dB hybrid splitting the 
signal path in two. Where I'm struggling is in finding where the signal 
goes after leaving the hybrid. Is there a super low noise amplifier that 
I can't find on the diagrams to make up for the hybrid when the KXR3 is 
fitted? Or maybe perhaps the hybrid is there all the time whether the 
sub receiver option is installed or not and the design absorbs the loss 
into the overall noise figure?


Or is it all a lot cleverer than that?

Thanks,

Alan G3XAQ
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver noise figure with KRX3 option

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

The obvious way to couple the two is with a 3dB hybrid but that
will cost me 3dB degradation in noise figure on both receivers.


Yes, that's correct.  However, in general one does not care so much
about the noise figure of the receivers since the antenna noise is
significantly higher than the receiver noise floor.  The only time
it might be an issue is on a very quiet band with an inefficient
antenna (3 element yagi/vertical on 6M in a rural area ... dipole
or vertical on 10 M in a rural area, etc.).


Is there a super low noise amplifier that I can't find on the
diagrams to make up for the hybrid when the KXR3 is fitted?


No.  There is no amplifier to make up for the -3dB loss when the
hybrid is activated (when the Sub RX is enabled and uses the main
antenna).  The loss is certainly noticeable with signals at the
receiver noise floor - e.g. weak signals on 6 or 10 meters.


Where I'm struggling is in finding where the signal goes after
leaving the hybrid.


One output of the hybrid goes to the sub RX input via P2 Pin 3 of
the SUB IN module.  the other output returns to the main RX input
via K1A and P1, Pin 9 (connects to J1 on the main board).

73,

  ... Joe, W4TV


On 2015-02-18 4:11 PM, Alan Ibbetson wrote:

I want to parallel the receivers on my recently-acquired K2 with my K3.
I have the KXV3A RX ANT option on my K3 and K160RX option on my K2. The
obvious way to couple the two is with a 3dB hybrid but that will cost
me 3dB degradation in noise figure on both receivers.

The KRX3 option in the K3 has to address the same problem and I'm
wondering if there are any clever tricks I can copy. I am finding the
schematics hard to follow but I can see a 3dB hybrid splitting the
signal path in two. Where I'm struggling is in finding where the signal
goes after leaving the hybrid. Is there a super low noise amplifier that
I can't find on the diagrams to make up for the hybrid when the KXR3 is
fitted? Or maybe perhaps the hybrid is there all the time whether the
sub receiver option is installed or not and the design absorbs the loss
into the overall noise figure?

Or is it all a lot cleverer than that?

Thanks,

Alan G3XAQ
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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver S meter calibration

[Mike Sullivan]

I purchased a used Elecraft XG3 at the Shelby Hamfest and couldn't wait to 
check it out on Spectrum Analyzer (SA)(Rigol DSA815 w/ tracking gen). The XG3 
markers amplitudes and frequencies we spot-on according to the SA which gave me 
a lot of confidence for aligning the K3 S-Meter and RF Gain control. However,  
the procedure on page 51 for alignment did not give me confidence that I 
followed it correctly.  I ended up with a sort of callibration on 40 meters,  
but that did not hold for any other band.  Also,  the K3 Utility (Calibration 
tab) while it completed ok, did not specify if it should be done for each band. 
 Yes, I completed it for 40 meters and 20 meters,  but was not sure if it made 
any difference to the manual settings.  I ended up doing calibration on 40 
meters alone but the indications were not followed across to other bands.

Is there another procedure, or should I settle for the inability to follow the 
receiver S meter and RF gain control.  That doesn't seem quite right, so I 
assume I must be doing something wrong!

Mike
kc2kj
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver S meter calibration

[Don Wilhelm]

Mike,

The K3 S-meter response will vary with the pre-amp and attenuator 
settings from band to band unless you have SMTR ABS set on in the menu.
If you are using SMTR ABS I suggest you calibrate the S-meter with the 
PreAmp off rather than the PreAmp on.


If you still have variation from band to band (using the XG3 for the 
signal input), then you may have to set the S-meter calibration to a 
compromise point.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/9/2014 11:32 AM, Mike Sullivan wrote:

I purchased a used Elecraft XG3 at the Shelby Hamfest and couldn't wait to 
check it out on Spectrum Analyzer (SA)(Rigol DSA815 w/ tracking gen). The XG3 
markers amplitudes and frequencies we spot-on according to the SA which gave me 
a lot of confidence for aligning the K3 S-Meter and RF Gain control. However,  
the procedure on page 51 for alignment did not give me confidence that I 
followed it correctly.  I ended up with a sort of callibration on 40 meters,  
but that did not hold for any other band.  Also,  the K3 Utility (Calibration 
tab) while it completed ok, did not specify if it should be done for each band. 
 Yes, I completed it for 40 meters and 20 meters,  but was not sure if it made 
any difference to the manual settings.  I ended up doing calibration on 40 
meters alone but the indications were not followed across to other bands.

Is there another procedure, or should I settle for the inability to follow the 
receiver S meter and RF gain control.  That doesn't seem quite right, so I 
assume I must be doing something wrong!




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver S meter calibration

[ab2tc]

Hi,

Wouldn't a receiver gain calibration procedure take care of the band to band
variation?

AB2TC - Knut


Don Wilhelm-4 wrote
 Mike,
 
 The K3 S-meter response will vary with the pre-amp and attenuator 
 settings from band to band unless you have SMTR ABS set on in the menu.
 If you are using SMTR ABS I suggest you calibrate the S-meter with the 
 PreAmp off rather than the PreAmp on.
 
 If you still have variation from band to band (using the XG3 for the 
 signal input), then you may have to set the S-meter calibration to a 
 compromise point.
 
 73,
 Don W3FPR
 snip





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View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Receiver-S-meter-calibration-tp7592924p7592938.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver S meter calibration

[Don Wilhelm]

Not in cases where the preamp and/or attenuator is used on some bands 
and not for others - unless SMTR ABS is set to ON.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/9/2014 3:10 PM, ab2tc wrote:

Hi,

Wouldn't a receiver gain calibration procedure take care of the band to band
variation?

AB2TC - Knut





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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Rick Stealey]

Guy, thanks for the tip.  I will give it a try.
A relay in the kxv3 rev 2 failed, an Omron part.  It is now obsolete.
Elecraft sells a new rev 3 version of the kxv3 for $88 as an upgrade.  You 
trade in your defective module. 

The failure occurred during the night that we had electrical storms so I 
assumed some solid state part in the rx path had probably gotten zapped.
But we could inject a weak signal after the kxv3 and hear it, but not before 
it.  Of course that sounds like a simple diagnosis, and it is when you are 
reading the final outcome, but not when your rig is spread out on the bench.

 From: k2av@gmail.com
 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 16:06:24 -0400
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting
 To: rstea...@hotmail.com
 CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Rick Stealey rstea...@hotmail.com wrote:
  Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions.  They were all via email - 
  you notice there were no helpful postings on the reflector.  Anyway, it's 
  working again and I'm a happy camper.
 
 I note you did not post what the actual solution was. You are the only
 source for that information.
 
 Just a reminder that the Elecraft reflector is not an Elecraft
 technical support email address. While Elecraft employees may post
 here from time to time to answer email on the reflector, there is no
 guarantee that Elecraft employees or Elecraft owners will answer a
 particular question. For Elecraft help from Elecraft employees one
 should use supp...@elecraft.com or k3supp...@elecraft.com with issues.
 These emails are answered during normal business days and hours.
 
 Reflector readers are not under contract to Elecraft to answer posts,
 nor is there a requirement that someone who does answer a reflector
 post must do so on the reflector.
 
 Personally, I rarely offer help across this or any other reflector any
 more, because it is too hard to keep track of helping email threads. I
 set up a new folder with an intelligent name for a corresponder with
 filters to put new mail from him/her in that folder. Not putting that
 help conversation on the reflector also avoids trash talk (both on and
 off reflector) from a certain kind of reflector user which otherwise
 is a real and ugly disincentive. I will sometimes convert to telephone
 conversations if the writing becomes too complex. All that goes on
 without a clue on a reflector I was there.
 
 I would say that it's up to the person who asked for help to post the
 eventual solution on the reflector. This makes the answer compact and
 only relates the answer that actually worked. And it cuts down on
 noise when someone is later searching archives for a solution.
 
 Clearly those who answered you off-reflector saw the post on the
 reflector and so it would seem to me that the Elecraft reflector
 worked well. But email correspondence is no match for a technical
 buddy with test equipment working right there with you on the physical
 equipment. :)
 
 As to the schematics, using the current Adobe Reader to display the
 schematic PDF's, the search function will find all the occurrences of
 a wire label very quickly. I have found Elecraft schematics **very
 easy** to navigate and use with Adobe Reader. I decidedly prefer
 Elecraft schems to the microscopic lines in the paper schematic of my
 FT1000MP, and having to pencil trace a wire as it snakes around the
 page.
 
 To find the KXV3, bring up the June, 2010 version of the K3 schematic
 PDF with a current Adobe Reader. Hit CTRL-F. This will bring up a blue
 find window at the upper right. Type in kxv3 and hit enter. You
 can repeat the search to see every instance of the characters kxv3
 (case insensitive) anywhere in the PDF.
 
 Huge help in chasing stuff in PDF schematics.
 
 73, and glad you found the trouble.
 
 Guy K2AV
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Eric Ross]

Just curious.  What does anyone recommend for a signal generator to use
for this kind of diagnostic process.  I am looking for something fairly
low cost as I hope I won't be doing this very often.

Eric
wb7sde

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, at 02:55 AM, Rick Stealey wrote:
 Guy, thanks for the tip.  I will give it a try.
 A relay in the kxv3 rev 2 failed, an Omron part.  It is now obsolete.
 Elecraft sells a new rev 3 version of the kxv3 for $88 as an upgrade. 
 You trade in your defective module. 
 
 The failure occurred during the night that we had electrical storms so I
 assumed some solid state part in the rx path had probably gotten zapped.
 But we could inject a weak signal after the kxv3 and hear it, but not
 before it.  Of course that sounds like a simple diagnosis, and it is when
 you are reading the final outcome, but not when your rig is spread out on
 the bench.
 
  From: k2av@gmail.com
  Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 16:06:24 -0400
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting
  To: rstea...@hotmail.com
  CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  
  On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Rick Stealey rstea...@hotmail.com wrote:
   Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions.  They were all via email - 
   you notice there were no helpful postings on the reflector.  Anyway, it's 
   working again and I'm a happy camper.
  
  I note you did not post what the actual solution was. You are the only
  source for that information.
  
  Just a reminder that the Elecraft reflector is not an Elecraft
  technical support email address. While Elecraft employees may post
  here from time to time to answer email on the reflector, there is no
  guarantee that Elecraft employees or Elecraft owners will answer a
  particular question. For Elecraft help from Elecraft employees one
  should use supp...@elecraft.com or k3supp...@elecraft.com with issues.
  These emails are answered during normal business days and hours.
  
  Reflector readers are not under contract to Elecraft to answer posts,
  nor is there a requirement that someone who does answer a reflector
  post must do so on the reflector.
  
  Personally, I rarely offer help across this or any other reflector any
  more, because it is too hard to keep track of helping email threads. I
  set up a new folder with an intelligent name for a corresponder with
  filters to put new mail from him/her in that folder. Not putting that
  help conversation on the reflector also avoids trash talk (both on and
  off reflector) from a certain kind of reflector user which otherwise
  is a real and ugly disincentive. I will sometimes convert to telephone
  conversations if the writing becomes too complex. All that goes on
  without a clue on a reflector I was there.
  
  I would say that it's up to the person who asked for help to post the
  eventual solution on the reflector. This makes the answer compact and
  only relates the answer that actually worked. And it cuts down on
  noise when someone is later searching archives for a solution.
  
  Clearly those who answered you off-reflector saw the post on the
  reflector and so it would seem to me that the Elecraft reflector
  worked well. But email correspondence is no match for a technical
  buddy with test equipment working right there with you on the physical
  equipment. :)
  
  As to the schematics, using the current Adobe Reader to display the
  schematic PDF's, the search function will find all the occurrences of
  a wire label very quickly. I have found Elecraft schematics **very
  easy** to navigate and use with Adobe Reader. I decidedly prefer
  Elecraft schems to the microscopic lines in the paper schematic of my
  FT1000MP, and having to pencil trace a wire as it snakes around the
  page.
  
  To find the KXV3, bring up the June, 2010 version of the K3 schematic
  PDF with a current Adobe Reader. Hit CTRL-F. This will bring up a blue
  find window at the upper right. Type in kxv3 and hit enter. You
  can repeat the search to see every instance of the characters kxv3
  (case insensitive) anywhere in the PDF.
  
  Huge help in chasing stuff in PDF schematics.
  
  73, and glad you found the trouble.
  
  Guy K2AV
 
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-- 
  Eric Ross
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Eric Ross]

The answer was obvious and I was dense. 

Thank you,
Eric, wb7sde

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Nr4c wrote:
 How about the XG3?  
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 ...nr4c. bill
 
 
  On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:43 AM, Eric Ross e...@evross.com wrote:
  
  Just curious.  What does anyone recommend for a signal generator to use
  for this kind of diagnostic process.  I am looking for something fairly
  low cost as I hope I won't be doing this very often.
  
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[Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Rick Stealey]

Yesterday I posted about extremely low receiver sensitivity on my K3, at both 
the main antenna input and the receive input on the KXV3 module.
A buddy helped me this morning and we found the problem.

In doing the circuit diagnosis, and we are both somewhat experienced in 
technical matters, we became very frustrated with the Elecraft schematics.  We 
found it very hard to signal trace through all the plugs and jacks.  Signal 
points seem to end with a label, with no indication of where that label 
reappears.  And although we found the problem it wasn't because we had the info 
we needed.  For example, we never did find a schematic of the KXV3 module.  It 
isn't in with the installation docs for the module, and if it is in among the 
K3 schematics it must be disguised somewhere.

We found it was effective to take a probe from the signal generator and inject 
it at various points, looking at the IF output on a spectrum analyzer.  But we 
had to do some guessing.  Like is there really an amplifier on the IF output in 
the KXV3 like the block diagram shows?  I don't think so.

Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions.  They were all via email - you 
notice there were no helpful postings on the reflector.  Anyway, it's working 
again and I'm a happy camper.

Rick  K2XT
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

On 7/16/2014 7:58 AM, Rick Stealey wrote:

They were all via email - you notice there were no helpful postings on the 
reflector.

Something that is very disappointing to all of us on the list.
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Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Bill via Elecraft]

Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions.  They were all via email - you 
notice there were no helpful postings on the reflector.  Anyway, it's working 
again and I'm a happy camper.

So Rick..  now that you are happy what was the trouble that you found??

Bill - K6WLM
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[tom armour]

Also how did you fix it?
Tom - wa4ta
 Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 09:59:20 -0700
 To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting
 From: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions.  They were all via email - 
 you 
 notice there were no helpful postings on the reflector.  Anyway, it's 
 working 
 again and I'm a happy camper.
 
 So Rick..  now that you are happy what was the trouble that you found??
 
 Bill - K6WLM
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Ian White]

The schematics in the PDF document are completely searchable - right
down to the individual part numbers, named signals and connector pins.


73 from Ian GM3SEK


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver troubleshooting

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Rick Stealey rstea...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Thanks to all who offered helpful suggestions.  They were all via email - you 
 notice there were no helpful postings on the reflector.  Anyway, it's working 
 again and I'm a happy camper.

I note you did not post what the actual solution was. You are the only
source for that information.

Just a reminder that the Elecraft reflector is not an Elecraft
technical support email address. While Elecraft employees may post
here from time to time to answer email on the reflector, there is no
guarantee that Elecraft employees or Elecraft owners will answer a
particular question. For Elecraft help from Elecraft employees one
should use supp...@elecraft.com or k3supp...@elecraft.com with issues.
These emails are answered during normal business days and hours.

Reflector readers are not under contract to Elecraft to answer posts,
nor is there a requirement that someone who does answer a reflector
post must do so on the reflector.

Personally, I rarely offer help across this or any other reflector any
more, because it is too hard to keep track of helping email threads. I
set up a new folder with an intelligent name for a corresponder with
filters to put new mail from him/her in that folder. Not putting that
help conversation on the reflector also avoids trash talk (both on and
off reflector) from a certain kind of reflector user which otherwise
is a real and ugly disincentive. I will sometimes convert to telephone
conversations if the writing becomes too complex. All that goes on
without a clue on a reflector I was there.

I would say that it's up to the person who asked for help to post the
eventual solution on the reflector. This makes the answer compact and
only relates the answer that actually worked. And it cuts down on
noise when someone is later searching archives for a solution.

Clearly those who answered you off-reflector saw the post on the
reflector and so it would seem to me that the Elecraft reflector
worked well. But email correspondence is no match for a technical
buddy with test equipment working right there with you on the physical
equipment. :)

As to the schematics, using the current Adobe Reader to display the
schematic PDF's, the search function will find all the occurrences of
a wire label very quickly. I have found Elecraft schematics **very
easy** to navigate and use with Adobe Reader. I decidedly prefer
Elecraft schems to the microscopic lines in the paper schematic of my
FT1000MP, and having to pencil trace a wire as it snakes around the
page.

To find the KXV3, bring up the June, 2010 version of the K3 schematic
PDF with a current Adobe Reader. Hit CTRL-F. This will bring up a blue
find window at the upper right. Type in kxv3 and hit enter. You
can repeat the search to see every instance of the characters kxv3
(case insensitive) anywhere in the PDF.

Huge help in chasing stuff in PDF schematics.

73, and glad you found the trouble.

Guy K2AV
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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver troubleshooting

[Rick Stealey]

My K3 suffered a sudden loss of sensitivity this morning.  Yes, there was 
lightning last night.  The antenna input was grounded in an antenna switch but 
the receive antenna port was connected to a Beverage. 

It appears to be normal in every other way.  Transmitter ok.  Receiver 
functions work, like preamp, attenuator.  But the level is down 60 db.
It is the same on both the antenna jack and the receive antenna port on the 
KXV3.

I have some lab equipment (HP sig gen, spectrum analyzer) and made some quick 
checks but I need a sanity check:
With -40 dbm into the receive antenna port the S meter is S7.  
With -30 dbm input, The spectrum analyzer connected to the IF output shows -80 
dbm.  I'm assuming this is WAY off, and should approximate the level of the 
input signal.

So I think I can safely assume the problem is not in the IF or downstream, but 
a likely culprit would maybe be a switching diode in the receive path?  Any 
ideas?

Rick  K2XT



  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Win Kriegl DK9IP/KH7CD]

Hi Jeff,

I have done that by comparing BAND DATA signals from both K3s using a 
74HC688 8-Bit Comparator. When both BAND DATA signals are equal the P=Q 
output from the HC688 disables transmitting on both K3s (TXinh). I used 
the HC688 because I have decimal BAND DATA signals from my band filter.
If you want 12V logic or only need 4 Bit (BCD BAND DATA) you can use 
CMOS 4063 (4-Bit Comparator) as well.


This circuit saved K3 frontend several times  :-)

73, Win DK9IP


Am 01.06.2014 06:04, schrieb Jeff via Elecraft:


My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit amplifier 
and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands I am using Array 
Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs accidentally wind up on the 
same band I run the risk of overloading the front end of the opposite rig and 
damaging the receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of 
taking the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs 
if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band 
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any experience with 
the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?

Thanks,
Jeff Larimore
K0RG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[d...@lightstream.net]

Hello Jeff,

I use the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP inline w/ my K3 AUX (2nd rx input). At
times the rx antenna is within 20 feet of the tx antenna. Without the
protector in place the receiver COR relay was being triggered with as
little as 20 watts at times, but with the RXFEP inserted, I could run 500W
from the KPA500 without ever engaging the COR. According to the Array
Solutions documentation, the input to the receiver is limited to .3v
(0dBm), and the internal components of the device can handle 10 watts.

I keep the device inline with the 2nd receiver input at all times,
regardless of which rx antenna I'm using, and it has worked perfectly (and
silently).

73, Dale
WA8SRA



 My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit
 amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands I am
 using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs accidentally
 wind up on the same band I run the risk of overloading the front end of
 the opposite rig and damaging the receiver (which I've done once...). Does
 anyone have a way of taking the band data information and disabling
 transmit capability on both rigs if they are on the same band? How are
 others using SO2R avoiding same band transmission and subsequent receiver
 damage? Anyone have any experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front
 end protector?

 Thanks,
 Jeff Larimore
 K0RG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Phil Debbie Salas]

Take a look at the transceiver front-end protector in the “Articles” section of 
my website at www.ad5x.com.  It operates full QSK (I tested it to 80WPM). Works 
great.

Phil – AD5X
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Richard Thorne]

Larry,

The Microham mk2r+ will do exactly what you want to accomplish. If both 
rigs are on the same frequency, neither will transmit.


It is, however, an expensive solution.  I was lucky and picked up a used 
one at a very good price.


Rich - N5ZC


On 5/31/2014 11:04 PM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:

My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit amplifier 
and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands I am using Array 
Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs accidentally wind up on the 
same band I run the risk of overloading the front end of the opposite rig and 
damaging the receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of 
taking the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs 
if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band 
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any experience with 
the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?

Thanks,
Jeff Larimore
K0RG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

How are others using SO2R avoiding same band transmission and
subsequent receiver damage?


SO2R controllers like the microHAM MK2R+ have built-in same band
interlocks that prevent PTT if both rigs are on the same band or
if one rig stops responding to control polling.  Some of the contest
software also prevents selecting the same band on both rigs.

I have not seen any dedicated hardware that compares band data from
the K3 or Yaesu rigs and opens the PTT lines or asserts the inhibit
lines if both rigs are on the same band but it would not be difficult
to do so with a PIC or even a programmable gate array.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-06-01 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:


My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit
amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands
I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs
accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of overloading
the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the receiver (which
I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of taking the band data
information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs if they
are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any
experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?

Thanks, Jeff Larimore K0RG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

A simple interlock can be built with a single quad XOR gate package,
half a dual 4 input NOR package and a few transistors/resistors if one
is driving the inhibit input.  Add half of a quad NOR gate package if
you want to disable PTT.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-06-01 10:54 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:



How are others using SO2R avoiding same band transmission and
subsequent receiver damage?


SO2R controllers like the microHAM MK2R+ have built-in same band
interlocks that prevent PTT if both rigs are on the same band or
if one rig stops responding to control polling.  Some of the contest
software also prevents selecting the same band on both rigs.

I have not seen any dedicated hardware that compares band data from
the K3 or Yaesu rigs and opens the PTT lines or asserts the inhibit
lines if both rigs are on the same band but it would not be difficult
to do so with a PIC or even a programmable gate array.

73,

... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-06-01 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:


My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit
amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands
I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs
accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of overloading
the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the receiver (which
I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of taking the band data
information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs if they
are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any
experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?

Thanks, Jeff Larimore K0RG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Doug Person via Elecraft]

This would be a good place to use an Arduino.  If the serial ports of 
the K3s are available, it would only take a small bit of code to achieve 
this.


Doug -- K0DXV

On 05/31/2014 10:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jeff,

That is a logic question seeking an answer.  I don't know of a simple 
solution, but it is a matter of selecting a match of the outputs of 2 
band data decoders.  If any two are the same, assert TX INH to both K3s.


That function could be implemented with a number of NAND gates or XOR 
gates at the outputs of the 2 band decoders.  The exact implementation 
of the logic gates is left to the student, there are several 
possibilities, but it would take a number of external logic gates to 
implement.


If you are really into logical devices, you could program a chip to do 
that directly from the band data outputs - if all 4 of the outputs 
from both K3s are a match, assert TX INH to both transceivers.


I do not know of an existing device that will provide that function, 
so the implementation would have to be created 'from scratch'.  Yes, 
it is possible, it is just a matter of a few logic gates.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/1/2014 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:
My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit 
amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands 
I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs 
accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of overloading 
the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the receiver (which 
I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of taking the band data 
information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs if they 
are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band 
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any 
experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

If the serial ports of the K3s are available,


They tend not to be when doing SO2R - the logger has them tied up.
Of course if the Arduino is capable of handling four 38,400 bps
ports at the same time one can pass the logger data through the
device.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2014-06-01 11:19 AM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:

This would be a good place to use an Arduino.  If the serial ports of
the K3s are available, it would only take a small bit of code to achieve
this.

Doug -- K0DXV

On 05/31/2014 10:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jeff,

That is a logic question seeking an answer.  I don't know of a simple
solution, but it is a matter of selecting a match of the outputs of 2
band data decoders.  If any two are the same, assert TX INH to both K3s.

That function could be implemented with a number of NAND gates or XOR
gates at the outputs of the 2 band decoders.  The exact implementation
of the logic gates is left to the student, there are several
possibilities, but it would take a number of external logic gates to
implement.

If you are really into logical devices, you could program a chip to do
that directly from the band data outputs - if all 4 of the outputs
from both K3s are a match, assert TX INH to both transceivers.

I do not know of an existing device that will provide that function,
so the implementation would have to be created 'from scratch'.  Yes,
it is possible, it is just a matter of a few logic gates.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/1/2014 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:

My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit
amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands
I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs
accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of overloading
the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the receiver (which
I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of taking the band data
information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs if they
are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any
experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[briana]

While you're in the programming mode, how about some preventative medicine.

Prevent one rig from switching to a band that the other rig is on.  If 
it tries, switch back to the old band.


73 de Brian/K3KO


On 6/1/2014 11:19 AM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
This would be a good place to use an Arduino.  If the serial ports of 
the K3s are available, it would only take a small bit of code to 
achieve this.


Doug -- K0DXV

On 05/31/2014 10:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Jeff,

That is a logic question seeking an answer.  I don't know of a simple 
solution, but it is a matter of selecting a match of the outputs of 2 
band data decoders.  If any two are the same, assert TX INH to both K3s.


That function could be implemented with a number of NAND gates or XOR 
gates at the outputs of the 2 band decoders.  The exact 
implementation of the logic gates is left to the student, there are 
several possibilities, but it would take a number of external logic 
gates to implement.


If you are really into logical devices, you could program a chip to 
do that directly from the band data outputs - if all 4 of the outputs 
from both K3s are a match, assert TX INH to both transceivers.


I do not know of an existing device that will provide that function, 
so the implementation would have to be created 'from scratch'.  Yes, 
it is possible, it is just a matter of a few logic gates.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/1/2014 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:
My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit 
amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between 
bands I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both 
rigs accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of 
overloading the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the 
receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of taking 
the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both 
rigs if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R 
avoiding same band transmission and subsequent receiver damage? 
Anyone have any experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front 
end protector?




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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/7103 - Release Date: 06/01/14




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Cady, Fred]

Check out a 74LS85 4 bit comparator.  A single chip with the A=B output going 
to each of the K3's ACC pin 7, TX INH inputs.
73,
Fred KE7X


 -Original Message-
 From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
 Joe Subich, W4TV
 Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 9:28 AM
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection
 
 
  If the serial ports of the K3s are available,
 
 They tend not to be when doing SO2R - the logger has them tied up.
 Of course if the Arduino is capable of handling four 38,400 bps ports
 at the same time one can pass the logger data through the device.
 
 73,
 
 ... Joe, W4TV
 
 
 On 2014-06-01 11:19 AM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
  This would be a good place to use an Arduino.  If the serial ports of
  the K3s are available, it would only take a small bit of code to
  achieve this.
 
  Doug -- K0DXV
 
  On 05/31/2014 10:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
  Jeff,
 
  That is a logic question seeking an answer.  I don't know of a
 simple
  solution, but it is a matter of selecting a match of the outputs of
 2
  band data decoders.  If any two are the same, assert TX INH to both
 K3s.
 
  That function could be implemented with a number of NAND gates or
 XOR
  gates at the outputs of the 2 band decoders.  The exact
  implementation of the logic gates is left to the student, there
 are
  several possibilities, but it would take a number of external logic
  gates to implement.
 
  If you are really into logical devices, you could program a chip to
  do that directly from the band data outputs - if all 4 of the
 outputs
  from both K3s are a match, assert TX INH to both transceivers.
 
  I do not know of an existing device that will provide that function,
  so the implementation would have to be created 'from scratch'.  Yes,
  it is possible, it is just a matter of a few logic gates.
 
  73,
  Don W3FPR
 
  On 6/1/2014 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:
  My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit
  amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between
  bands I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both
  rigs accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of
  overloading the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the
  receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of
 taking
  the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both
  rigs if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R
  avoiding same band transmission and subsequent receiver damage?
  Anyone have any experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front
 end protector?
 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Jeff Stai]

The simplest get you there now solution is to simply disable
complimentary bands in each K3. Set up the left radio for 80-20-10 and the
right radio for 160-40-15, for one example.

You didn't buy Steppirs to exclude bands on each radio, but this will give
you protection now while you pursue one of the other suggestions.
(Obviously, avoid using direct frequency entry to change bands...)

Also, highly recommend purchasing this book, for the next steps of keeping
one radio from bothering the other:

http://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=248

Have fun! 73 jeff wk6i



On Sun, Jun 1, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Cady, Fred fc...@ece.montana.edu wrote:

 Check out a 74LS85 4 bit comparator.  A single chip with the A=B output
 going to each of the K3's ACC pin 7, TX INH inputs.
 73,
 Fred KE7X


  -Original Message-
  From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
  Joe Subich, W4TV
  Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2014 9:28 AM
  To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection
 
 
   If the serial ports of the K3s are available,
 
  They tend not to be when doing SO2R - the logger has them tied up.
  Of course if the Arduino is capable of handling four 38,400 bps ports
  at the same time one can pass the logger data through the device.
 
  73,
 
  ... Joe, W4TV
 
 
  On 2014-06-01 11:19 AM, Doug Person via Elecraft wrote:
   This would be a good place to use an Arduino.  If the serial ports of
   the K3s are available, it would only take a small bit of code to
   achieve this.
  
   Doug -- K0DXV
  
   On 05/31/2014 10:46 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
   Jeff,
  
   That is a logic question seeking an answer.  I don't know of a
  simple
   solution, but it is a matter of selecting a match of the outputs of
  2
   band data decoders.  If any two are the same, assert TX INH to both
  K3s.
  
   That function could be implemented with a number of NAND gates or
  XOR
   gates at the outputs of the 2 band decoders.  The exact
   implementation of the logic gates is left to the student, there
  are
   several possibilities, but it would take a number of external logic
   gates to implement.
  
   If you are really into logical devices, you could program a chip to
   do that directly from the band data outputs - if all 4 of the
  outputs
   from both K3s are a match, assert TX INH to both transceivers.
  
   I do not know of an existing device that will provide that function,
   so the implementation would have to be created 'from scratch'.  Yes,
   it is possible, it is just a matter of a few logic gates.
  
   73,
   Don W3FPR
  
   On 6/1/2014 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:
   My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit
   amplifier and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between
   bands I am using Array Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both
   rigs accidentally wind up on the same band I run the risk of
   overloading the front end of the opposite rig and damaging the
   receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of
  taking
   the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both
   rigs if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R
   avoiding same band transmission and subsequent receiver damage?
   Anyone have any experience with the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front
  end protector?
  
  
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-- 
Jeff Stai ~ wk6i.j...@gmail.com
Twisted Oak Winery ~ http

[Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Jeff via Elecraft]

My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit amplifier 
and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands I am using Array 
Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs accidentally wind up on the 
same band I run the risk of overloading the front end of the opposite rig and 
damaging the receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of 
taking the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs 
if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band 
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any experience with 
the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?

Thanks,
Jeff Larimore
K0RG
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Protection

[Don Wilhelm]

Jeff,

That is a logic question seeking an answer.  I don't know of a simple 
solution, but it is a matter of selecting a match of the outputs of 2 
band data decoders.  If any two are the same, assert TX INH to both K3s.


That function could be implemented with a number of NAND gates or XOR 
gates at the outputs of the 2 band decoders.  The exact implementation 
of the logic gates is left to the student, there are several 
possibilities, but it would take a number of external logic gates to 
implement.


If you are really into logical devices, you could program a chip to do 
that directly from the band data outputs - if all 4 of the outputs from 
both K3s are a match, assert TX INH to both transceivers.


I do not know of an existing device that will provide that function, so 
the implementation would have to be created 'from scratch'.  Yes, it is 
possible, it is just a matter of a few logic gates.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 6/1/2014 12:04 AM, Jeff via Elecraft wrote:

My station consists of two K-3's, each with a dedicated legal limit amplifier 
and SteppIr antenna. To minimize interference between bands I am using Array 
Solutions Bandpass filters. However, if both rigs accidentally wind up on the 
same band I run the risk of overloading the front end of the opposite rig and 
damaging the receiver (which I've done once...). Does anyone have a way of 
taking the band data information and disabling transmit capability on both rigs 
if they are on the same band? How are others using SO2R avoiding same band 
transmission and subsequent receiver damage? Anyone have any experience with 
the Array Solutions AS-RXFEP front end protector?



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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver Failure on Curacao

[jmaass]

All:
  
 Here on Curacao, one of the members' K3 stopped receiving abruptly this 
morning, after he had called a couple of times and while he was just listening. 
He said it sounded like someone disconnected the antenna. 
  
 Neither the Main nor Subreceiver are hearing signals. Using Antenna 1, Antenna 
2, or RX antenna inputs makes no difference. 
  
 The P3 display reflects changing the changing frequency (in digits, at top) 
with the VFOs, but the noise pattern displayed does not change. 
  
 We've eliminated everything outside of the radio in the RF path as a cause. He 
went through the troubleshooting section of the manual. No Joy. 
  
 This radio was carried down for the contest, and has only been here for 2 
weeks in our air-conditioned shack. No danger of salt air contamination, which 
over time has bad effects on radios here!
  
 Is there a reset defaults command to return the radio to a known pristine 
state, lest some parameter have been changed inadvertently? He reportedly 
needed such a command for his P3 before travelling to Curacao last week. 
  
 Thanks for any guidence. He'd rather not pack it up for travel back to the 
States yet! 
  
 (BTW, the PJ2T Multi-Multi operation this past weekend in CQWW CW was an 
all-K3 affair, with five stations. No failures, no problems, and the largest 
CQWW CW score ever for us! We appear to be second or third Worldwide 
Multi-Multi.)
  
 73,  Jeff PJ2/K8ND
  
 jma...@k8nd.com
  

 
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Failure on Curacao

[jkhooper]

Jeff, 

The K3 Manual describes a process to force a firmware download if you 
accidentally load an old or incompatible firmware version and find the K3 
unresponsive, and you might try that.   Page 45 of the manual which you could 
download from the Elecraft web site.  

1. Unplug from the power supply and wait 5 seconds 
2. Plug back in 
3. HOLD the K3s power switch in and after about 10 seconds you'll see the TX 
LED flash
4. Load the correct firmware version 

73, 
Hoop
K9QJS 



On Nov 28, 2013, at 7:28 , jma...@k8nd.com wrote:

All:
 
Here on Curacao, one of the members' K3 stopped receiving abruptly this 
morning, after he had called a couple of times and while he was just listening. 
He said it sounded like someone disconnected the antenna. 
 
Neither the Main nor Subreceiver are hearing signals. Using Antenna 1, Antenna 
2, or RX antenna inputs makes no difference. 
 
The P3 display reflects changing the changing frequency (in digits, at top) 
with the VFOs, but the noise pattern displayed does not change. 
 
We've eliminated everything outside of the radio in the RF path as a cause. He 
went through the troubleshooting section of the manual. No Joy. 
 
This radio was carried down for the contest, and has only been here for 2 weeks 
in our air-conditioned shack. No danger of salt air contamination, which over 
time has bad effects on radios here!
 
Is there a reset defaults command to return the radio to a known pristine 
state, lest some parameter have been changed inadvertently? He reportedly 
needed such a command for his P3 before travelling to Curacao last week. 
 
Thanks for any guidence. He'd rather not pack it up for travel back to the 
States yet! 
 
(BTW, the PJ2T Multi-Multi operation this past weekend in CQWW CW was an all-K3 
affair, with five stations. No failures, no problems, and the largest CQWW CW 
score ever for us! We appear to be second or third Worldwide Multi-Multi.)
 
73,  Jeff PJ2/K8ND
 
jma...@k8nd.com
 

 
 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Failure on Curacao

[Dick Dievendorff]

There is a parameter initialization (EEINIT) procedure in the K3 owners manual. 
You will want to save the configuration first, because it resets all 
calibration and configuration, and you will need to be able to repeat all that 
or restore the configuration. 

I presume you have a K3 Utility and access to the owners manual and a working 
PC connection to the radio.  

Reloading firmware might or might not help, and is less disruptive.

Dick, K6KR

Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 28, 2013, at 7:28, jma...@k8nd.com wrote:
 
 All:
  
 Here on Curacao, one of the members' K3 stopped receiving abruptly this 
 morning, after he had called a couple of times and while he was just 
 listening. He said it sounded like someone disconnected the antenna. 
  
 Neither the Main nor Subreceiver are hearing signals. Using Antenna 1, 
 Antenna 2, or RX antenna inputs makes no difference. 
  
 The P3 display reflects changing the changing frequency (in digits, at top) 
 with the VFOs, but the noise pattern displayed does not change. 
  
 We've eliminated everything outside of the radio in the RF path as a cause. 
 He went through the troubleshooting section of the manual. No Joy. 
  
 This radio was carried down for the contest, and has only been here for 2 
 weeks in our air-conditioned shack. No danger of salt air contamination, 
 which over time has bad effects on radios here!
  
 Is there a reset defaults command to return the radio to a known pristine 
 state, lest some parameter have been changed inadvertently? He reportedly 
 needed such a command for his P3 before travelling to Curacao last week. 
  
 Thanks for any guidence. He'd rather not pack it up for travel back to the 
 States yet! 
  
 (BTW, the PJ2T Multi-Multi operation this past weekend in CQWW CW was an 
 all-K3 affair, with five stations. No failures, no problems, and the largest 
 CQWW CW score ever for us! We appear to be second or third Worldwide 
 Multi-Multi.)
  
 73,  Jeff PJ2/K8ND
  
 jma...@k8nd.com
  
 
  
  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Failure on Curacao

[Rick Tavan N6XI]

Although you got plenty of replies concerning possible firmware problems,
your symptoms sound a lot like what happened to one of my K3s recently that
in the end turned out to be a faulty KXV3, the so-called Transverter
Interface that also supports the RX ANT I/O and the I/F OUT.

If you have a sub-rx with a dedicated input (the AUX RF BNC connector
beneath the ANT2 SO239), try connecting an antenna to it and see if the
sub-rx works. That connector bypasses the KXV3 whereas ANT1, ANT2 and RX
ANT IN all go through it. In my case, that showed that the sub-rx and lots
of the firmware was working, suggesting (but not proving) that the main rx
was simply antenna-starved.

If that is what you see, consider swapping in a KXV3 or KXV3A board from
one of the other K3s on site. It is not a trivial amount of
disassembly/reassembly of two K3s, but the manuals are downloadable and
good. If the dead K3 works with the other KXV3, then you know what you
need.

GL  73,

/Rick N6XI


On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 7:28 AM, jma...@k8nd.com wrote:

 All:

  Here on Curacao, one of the members' K3 stopped receiving abruptly this
 morning, after he had called a couple of times and while he was just
 listening. He said it sounded like someone disconnected the antenna.

  Neither the Main nor Subreceiver are hearing signals. Using Antenna 1,
 Antenna 2, or RX antenna inputs makes no difference.

  The P3 display reflects changing the changing frequency (in digits, at
 top) with the VFOs, but the noise pattern displayed does not change.

  We've eliminated everything outside of the radio in the RF path as a
 cause. He went through the troubleshooting section of the manual. No Joy.

  This radio was carried down for the contest, and has only been here for 2
 weeks in our air-conditioned shack. No danger of salt air contamination,
 which over time has bad effects on radios here!

  Is there a reset defaults command to return the radio to a known
 pristine state, lest some parameter have been changed inadvertently? He
 reportedly needed such a command for his P3 before travelling to Curacao
 last week.

  Thanks for any guidence. He'd rather not pack it up for travel back to
 the States yet!

  (BTW, the PJ2T Multi-Multi operation this past weekend in CQWW CW was an
 all-K3 affair, with five stations. No failures, no problems, and the
 largest CQWW CW score ever for us! We appear to be second or third
 Worldwide Multi-Multi.)

  73,  Jeff PJ2/K8ND

  jma...@k8nd.com




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-- 
Rick Tavan N6XI
Truckee, CA
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver

[Fred Smith]

Eric

When I bought my first new Elecraft a K2/100 loaded then a (used) K3 at that
time I had a FTDX-5000MP,FT-1000MP,IC-7000,IC-703+,IC9100and several others
that was in 8/12. 

Then the Elecraft fever seemed to take over after comparing my main HF/6m
radio to my K3. Sold all my Yaesu gear radio and YL-1000 amp all except the
IC-9100 stayed with the K3/100, K2/100. After that I first bought a fully
loaded K3 my first one was a pretty much basic model K3/100 after that
everything just seemed to come the last being a KX3 or a KAT500 can't
remember.

Anyway the KX3 really is a great radio I do love mine.




73,Fred/N0AZZ

K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT/100
P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Eric Buggee
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 6:10 PM
To: Gary Gregory
Cc: Elecraft List
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver

My experience here also Gary, mainly work 160 SSB early mornings  the
ability of the K3 to hear signals through heavy QRM as well as wek signals
on quiet days is incredible!

Way in front of 857D, TS2000  IC706Mk2 with DSP noise reduction the other
current rigs.  Have recently sold the 706  the others are soon to go out
the door also.

Hope to get a KX3 when finances permit.

Eric VK3AX.


On 3/17/2013 8:48 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:
 The ability of the K3 to hear a whisper on  ssb below the noise floor 
 is nothing short of unbelievable.

 Thankyou Elecraft!

 Gary
 Vk1ZZ
 K3, KX3, KPA500, KAT500,P3.
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 list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


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-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 2641/6180 - Release Date: 03/15/13

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 receiver

[Eric Buggee]

My experience here also Gary, mainly work 160 SSB early mornings  the 
ability of the K3 to hear signals through heavy QRM as well as wek 
signals on quiet days is incredible!


Way in front of 857D, TS2000  IC706Mk2 with DSP noise reduction the 
other current rigs.  Have recently sold the 706  the others are soon to 
go out the door also.


Hope to get a KX3 when finances permit.

Eric VK3AX.


On 3/17/2013 8:48 AM, Gary Gregory wrote:

The ability of the K3 to hear a whisper on  ssb below the noise floor is
nothing short of unbelievable.

Thankyou Elecraft!

Gary
Vk1ZZ
K3, KX3, KPA500, KAT500,P3.
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