Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Bob - W0GI wrote: I realize that many run CW without a computer, and it may be an unfair advantage, but then so is an antenna up 100ft with a 1500W amp competing against a poor ham with a dipole and 100W. The hams with the megabucks have the advantage no matter what. :) There's the rub. The guy with the 100 ft tower running the 1500W is competing against others with similar setups and running the same power, NOT against the guy running 100W into a dipole. Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. That's a complete mischaracterization of CW Skimmer. CW skimmer is nothing more than a second receiver and multi-channel CW decoder. It is no different conceptually than a scanner and CW Get or the decoder in Writelog except it takes the process one step further by providing the data in a way that it can be displayed in a logging program band map or combined with a panadapter display. Those capabilities have existed individually for many years and in combination for several years in the digital modes. To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Kevin Stover Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:00 AM To: Bob - W0GI Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Bob - W0GI wrote: I realize that many run CW without a computer, and it may be an unfair advantage, but then so is an antenna up 100ft with a 1500W amp competing against a poor ham with a dipole and 100W. The hams with the megabucks have the advantage no matter what. :) There's the rub. The guy with the 100 ft tower running the 1500W is competing against others with similar setups and running the same power, NOT against the guy running 100W into a dipole. Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH The assisted categories were created to capture the ASSISTANCE by SOMEONE else, another operator via other means, packet, telephone, internet. Skimmer is another GADGET in operator's shack, using his equipment, antennas etc. just like any other gadget in the shack. We are technical sport using technology gadgets and operator skills. Classifying gadget, skimmer as (human) assistant is the example of twisted logic. Besides, skimmers would eleviate problem of packet pileups (which sucks) as individual skimmers, using individual antennas and setups would come across the juicy ones and flag them to operator, spreading the pileups. Mybe we should go back and classify everything besides spark gap and hand key as assistants?? 73 Yuri, K3BU.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Listening to CW in SSB mode certainly works to give you a wider window but is inconvenient if you want to use CW functions like SPOT, PITCH, CWT, which aren't available while listening in SSB mode, and trying to keep in mind which mode you have selected at any given time... Is there some reason why the CW bandpass could not just be widened? 73, Drew AF2Z On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:08:27 -0800 (PST), Wes Stewart wrote: Then listen in SSB mode. If you use the following, it's easy enough to change mode to CW if you hear something interesting: * AUTOMATIC CW VFO OFFSET ON MODE CHANGE: Allows switching __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Maybe a new class to enter? Single Op, Assisted, and Luddites. I'd be in the later. 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR K2TKR On 2/20/2010 10:12 AM, k...@optimum.net wrote: Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH The assisted categories were created to capture the ASSISTANCE by SOMEONE else, another operator via other means, packet, telephone, internet. Skimmer is another GADGET in operator's shack, using his equipment, antennas etc. just like any other gadget in the shack. We are technical sport using technology gadgets and operator skills. Classifying gadget, skimmer as (human) assistant is the example of twisted logic. Besides, skimmers would eleviate problem of packet pileups (which sucks) as individual skimmers, using individual antennas and setups would come across the juicy ones and flag them to operator, spreading the pileups. Mybe we should go back and classify everything besides spark gap and hand key as assistants?? 73 Yuri, K3BU.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
So the sponsoring organizations who decided that using the clusters puts you into the assisted category are wrong? Skimmer uses another receiver, the band maps in the logging programs use either Telnet or Packet clusters spots for their data. Since Packet and Telnet clusters count as assisted why should Skimmer not? Just because it's the Ham Radio technology soup de jour? Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. That's a complete mischaracterization of CW Skimmer. CW skimmer is nothing more than a second receiver and multi-channel CW decoder. It is no different conceptually than a scanner and CW Get or the decoder in Writelog except it takes the process one step further by providing the data in a way that it can be displayed in a logging program band map or combined with a panadapter display. Those capabilities have existed individually for many years and in combination for several years in the digital modes. To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Kevin Stover Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:00 AM To: Bob - W0GI Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Bob - W0GI wrote: I realize that many run CW without a computer, and it may be an unfair advantage, but then so is an antenna up 100ft with a 1500W amp competing against a poor ham with a dipole and 100W. The hams with the megabucks have the advantage no matter what. :) There's the rub. The guy with the 100 ft tower running the 1500W is competing against others with similar setups and running the same power, NOT against the guy running 100W into a dipole. Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. Not to me it isn't. Skimmer allows you to do something you couldn't do yourself which is to listen simultaneously on other frequencies to detect needed points and multipliers. Other aids that have mentioned such as memory keyers or even computer decoding of the station you are working are not assistance because they don't allow you to do anything you couldn't do yourself, they are simply labour-saving devices that have no effect on the overall score of the competitor. I thought it had been ruled already that use of Skimmer counts as assistance? Perhaps that was just for the CQ contests. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4603357.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
- Original Message - From: Julian, G4ILO Date: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:24 am Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. Not to me it isn't. Skimmer allows you to do something you couldn't do yourself which is to listen simultaneously on other frequencies to detect needed points and multipliers. Not true, I can listen and scan other frequencies with second radio while CQing on the first one. I can use panadapter to watch for band openings and tune to the signals. In more crude form you can use scanning and CW decoder to hunt. Skimmer just takes it to another level, just like computer logging to paper logging. The key here is ASSISTANCE by other persons via other means. Not the gadget and software in my shack, that is tool just like anything else in my shack. Ruling by CQ CC to put skimmer into assisted is the dumbest and contrary to logic. Yuri, K3BU.us Other aids that have mentioned such as memory keyers or even computer decoding of the station you are working are not assistance because they don't allow you to do anything you couldn't do yourself, they are simply labour-saving devices that have no effect on the overall score of the competitor. Julian, G4ILO __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Great conversation for the cq-contest mailing list...hope to see it continued there. :-) On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:09 AM, R. Kevin Stover rksto...@mchsi.com wrote: So the sponsoring organizations who decided that using the clusters puts you into the assisted category are wrong? Skimmer uses another receiver, the band maps in the logging programs use either Telnet or Packet clusters spots for their data. Since Packet and Telnet clusters count as assisted why should Skimmer not? Just because it's the Ham Radio technology soup de jour? Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. That's a complete mischaracterization of CW Skimmer. CW skimmer is nothing more than a second receiver and multi-channel CW decoder. It is no different conceptually than a scanner and CW Get or the decoder in Writelog except it takes the process one step further by providing the data in a way that it can be displayed in a logging program band map or combined with a panadapter display. Those capabilities have existed individually for many years and in combination for several years in the digital modes. To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Kevin Stover Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:00 AM To: Bob - W0GI Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Bob - W0GI wrote: I realize that many run CW without a computer, and it may be an unfair advantage, but then so is an antenna up 100ft with a 1500W amp competing against a poor ham with a dipole and 100W. The hams with the megabucks have the advantage no matter what. :) There's the rub. The guy with the 100 ft tower running the 1500W is competing against others with similar setups and running the same power, NOT against the guy running 100W into a dipole. Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes [END OF THREAD]
Guys, Let's end all Skimmer pro-con arguments -now- before this gets out of hand. Any discussion of CW Skimmer's applicability for contesting is OT for this list. Best to discuss on the contesting forums or by direct email. Eric WA6HHQ List Moderator _..._ k...@optimum.net wrote: Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH The assisted categories were created to capture the ASSISTANCE by SOMEONE else, another operator via other means, packet, telephone, internet. Skimmer is another GADGET in operator's shack, using his equipment, antennas etc. just like any other gadget in the shack. We are technical sport using technology gadgets and operator skills. Classifying gadget, skimmer as (human) assistant is the example of twisted logic. Besides, skimmers would eleviate problem of packet pileups (which sucks) as individual skimmers, using individual antennas and setups would come across the juicy ones and flag them to operator, spreading the pileups. Mybe we should go back and classify everything besides spark gap and hand key as assistants?? 73 Yuri, K3BU.us __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
So the sponsoring organizations who decided that using the clusters puts you into the assisted category are wrong? No, the clusters represent the input of ANOTHER OPERATOR. Just like a telephone call, or someone else setting at the next desk with a receiver. There is a FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE when another person is involved. Skimmer uses another receiver, the band maps in the logging programs use either Telnet or Packet clusters spots for their data. Since Packet and Telnet clusters count as assisted why should Skimmer not? Skimmer is not another PERSON. The difference between skimmer and Telnet or Packet is like the difference between computer logging/duping/Super Check Partial/History files and having a second operator setting beside you filling in the log, keeping the dupe sheet and correcting your copying. The difference is technology vs. ANOTHER PERSON. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: R. Kevin Stover [mailto:rksto...@mchsi.com] Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:10 AM To: Joe Subich, W4TV Cc: 'Bob - W0GI'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes So the sponsoring organizations who decided that using the clusters puts you into the assisted category are wrong? Skimmer uses another receiver, the band maps in the logging programs use either Telnet or Packet clusters spots for their data. Since Packet and Telnet clusters count as assisted why should Skimmer not? Just because it's the Ham Radio technology soup de jour? Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. That's a complete mischaracterization of CW Skimmer. CW skimmer is nothing more than a second receiver and multi-channel CW decoder. It is no different conceptually than a scanner and CW Get or the decoder in Writelog except it takes the process one step further by providing the data in a way that it can be displayed in a logging program band map or combined with a panadapter display. Those capabilities have existed individually for many years and in combination for several years in the digital modes. To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of R. Kevin Stover Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:00 AM To: Bob - W0GI Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Bob - W0GI wrote: I realize that many run CW without a computer, and it may be an unfair advantage, but then so is an antenna up 100ft with a 1500W amp competing against a poor ham with a dipole and 100W. The hams with the megabucks have the advantage no matter what. :) There's the rub. The guy with the 100 ft tower running the 1500W is competing against others with similar setups and running the same power, NOT against the guy running 100W into a dipole. Since Skimmer is nothing more than a more accurate and visual form of Telnet or Packet cluster those using it should submit logs in the assisted category just like those who use the DX clusters now are required to do. -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Not to me it isn't. Skimmer allows you to do something you couldn't do yourself which is to listen simultaneously on other frequencies to detect needed points and multipliers. No, top operators have operated SOnR for years to detect needed points/multipliers. Skimmer technology simply automates that in the same way that logging software with dupe checking/SCP/history files/etc. automated that part of the equation. I thought it had been ruled already that use of Skimmer counts as assistance? Perhaps that was just for the CQ contests. That decision was forced on certain sponsors by some of the elite operators who did not want mortals to erode their SOnR advantages. The decision is WRONG and goes counter to all previous decisions concerning technological advances. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Julian, G4ILO Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:24 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Joe Subich, W4TV-4 wrote: To call skimmer assisted is a farce. It completely twists the definition of assisted which used to mean - assistance by another person in making a QSO - and ignores more than 40 years in which technology has replaced things often done by a second operator. Not to me it isn't. Skimmer allows you to do something you couldn't do yourself which is to listen simultaneously on other frequencies to detect needed points and multipliers. Other aids that have mentioned such as memory keyers or even computer decoding of the station you are working are not assistance because they don't allow you to do anything you couldn't do yourself, they are simply labour-saving devices that have no effect on the overall score of the competitor. I thought it had been ruled already that use of Skimmer counts as assistance? Perhaps that was just for the CQ contests. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4603357.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Brian Alsop wrote: Why don't we encourage the use of new technology rather than trying to still hold the Olympics in the nude with sticks and stones as the technology? For exactly the same reasons that we recognise running, cycling, horse riding and motor racing as completely separate events. In sport, nobody has the slightest difficulty understanding why. What's different about amateur radio? -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I'm sure it could be done, and I'm sure the programmer who wrote it could justifiably feel satisfaction at the results he got, because for sure he would have put a lot of effort into creating it. The question is whether those who simply downloaded his program and used it would have their enjoyment if the hobby and sense of achievement enhanced by so doing? I think the fishing analogy is an apt one. No-one would advocate going back to using a stick and a bit of string (although some in this thread seem to be suggesting an equivalent of it) but surely it is undeniable that a radar that could let you see where all the fish are would remove the sporting element of fishing? Isn't ham radio like sport fishing, something done for the pleasure and skill of it? I get the feeling that for some people it has become more like commercial fishing and anything that can maximize your catch is good. Different strokes for different folks, I know. But I wish I could understand what they get out of it. Eric Manning wrote: Further to Julian's others' comments about CW Skimmer removing the need to tune the band, a skilled part of the operating experience which is enjoyable to many [but not all!] of us: My friend is hot to write a software layer which will sit on top of CW Skimmer and which will win contests -- entirely on its own. Put another way, it is the next logical step after the PDP-7 program which did QSOs on its own, described in this thread. The amateur will just point my friend's software at a contest , hit start, and leave the shack. I know just enough about artificial intelligence and expert systems to believe that he very possibly can do it. Then what? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4597086.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Although I operate almost entirely in CW my bandpass is typically set wide open. However, this is effectively only about 2 KHz max, which is not nearly wide enough when you want to hear what is going on around you on the band. I concur with this statement. I am used to using my ears as a band scope, and the K3 with the 2 KHz bandwidth limit in the CW mode sometimes makes me feel like I have blinders on. This limit is not present in the Data mode, so it is hard to understand why it is necessary in CW mode. Still a great, versatile radio, but with a curious limitation. Dean -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4598123.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Julian,
PMFJI (Pardon me for jumping in): I think, more accurately, the
analogy might be the difference between a hook-and-line fisherman and
someone trolling with a net and crane. Except the net and crane still
have human interaction... {'-)
Regards,
kurtt
Kurt Pawlikowski, AKA WB9FMC
The Pinrod Corporation
ku...@pinrod.com
(773) 284-9500
http://pinrod.com
Julian, G4ILO wrote:
I'm sure it could be done, and I'm sure the programmer who wrote it could
justifiably feel satisfaction at the results he got, because for sure he
would have put a lot of effort into creating it. The question is whether
those who simply downloaded his program and used it would have their
enjoyment if the hobby and sense of achievement enhanced by so doing?
I think the fishing analogy is an apt one. No-one would advocate going back
to using a stick and a bit of string (although some in this thread seem to
be suggesting an equivalent of it) but surely it is undeniable that a radar
that could let you see where all the fish are would remove the sporting
element of fishing?
Isn't ham radio like sport fishing, something done for the pleasure and
skill of it? I get the feeling that for some people it has become more like
commercial fishing and anything that can maximize your catch is good.
Different strokes for different folks, I know. But I wish I could understand
what they get out of it.
Eric Manning wrote:
Further to Julian's others' comments about CW Skimmer removing the
need to tune the band,
a skilled part of the operating experience which is enjoyable to many
[but not all!] of us:
My friend is hot to write a software layer which will sit on top of CW
Skimmer and which will
win contests -- entirely on its own.
Put another way, it is the next logical step after the PDP-7 program which
did QSOs on its own, described in this thread.
The amateur will just point my friend's software at a contest , hit
start, and leave the shack.
I know just enough about artificial intelligence and expert systems to
believe that
he very possibly can do it. Then what?
-
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
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Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Then listen in SSB mode. If you use the following, it's easy enough to change mode to CW if you hear something interesting: * AUTOMATIC CW VFO OFFSET ON MODE CHANGE: Allows switching quickly between SSB and CW mode without either you or the other station having to re-tune the VFO (often done on 6 meters and transverter bands). First, locate CONFIG:CW WGHT and tap ‘5’ on the keypad until you see “VFO OFS”. From then on, when switching to CW mode from any other mode, the VFO will be offset by an amount equal to your sidetone pitch (as set using the PITCH switch in CW mode). If the sideband most recently used on this band is USB, the VFO will be shifted UP; if it was LSB, the VFO will be shifted DOWN. Note: If you make frequent use of this feature, you may want to use CW reverse on bands where you use USB, and CW normal on bands where you use LSB. This results in perfect pitch matching when listening to a CW signal and switching from SSB to CW. --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Dean45 ebd...@mytargets.com wrote: Although I operate almost entirely in CW my bandpass is typically set wide open. However, this is effectively only about 2 KHz max, which is not nearly wide enough when you want to hear what is going on around you on the band. I concur with this statement. I am used to using my ears as a band scope, and the K3 with the 2 KHz bandwidth limit in the CW mode sometimes makes me feel like I have blinders on. This limit is not present in the Data mode, so it is hard to understand why it is necessary in CW mode. Still a great, versatile radio, but with a curious limitation. Dean __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
For exactly the same reasons that we recognise running, cycling, horse riding and motor racing as completely separate events. ... and radiosport has CW, RTTY and phone contests. Everybody understands the difference. The question is why the CW snobs insist that everyone must use low compression, flat head, four cylinder engines and not allow multiple valve, fuel injected and/or turbo charged technology. Every other form of computer assistance - SCP, computer and/or memory keyers, band maps, computer logging, history databases - is all fair game. 30 years ago those were all functions of a second operator but now they're no longer assistance. There should be no difference with CW copying technology as long as it is located within the station's own boundaries. Technology moves forward - else we would all be using spark (Thor's transmitter). 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian White GM3SEK Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 3:11 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Brian Alsop wrote: Why don't we encourage the use of new technology rather than trying to still hold the Olympics in the nude with sticks and stones as the technology? For exactly the same reasons that we recognise running, cycling, horse riding and motor racing as completely separate events. In sport, nobody has the slightest difficulty understanding why. What's different about amateur radio? -- 73 from Ian GM3SEK http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Further to Julian's others' comments about CW Skimmer removing the need to tune the band, a skilled part of the operating experience which is enjoyable to many [but not all!] of us: My friend is hot to write a software layer which will sit on top of CW Skimmer and which will win contests -- entirely on its own. Put another way, it is the next logical step after the PDP-7 program which did QSOs on its own, described in this thread. The amateur will just point my friend's software at a contest , hit start, and leave the shack. I know just enough about artificial intelligence and expert systems to believe that he very possibly can do it. Then what? Will we still enjoy contesting, knowing that computers will win every one? Maybe. Deep Blue - the IBM parallel processor - beat Garry Kasparov, but people still like chess. But do the Chess Masters [ the counterparts of the contest high-scorers] still like it as much as they did before Deep Blue? I haven't a clue, but somehow I doubt it. Will we outlaw it, like ARRL may or may not do with CW SKimmer? Will it make any difference? eric, feeling uneasy, and looking back wistfully to the days of Spark Gap VA7DZ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Eric wrote: Will we outlaw it, like ARRL may or may not do with CW Skimmer? For the 2009 California QSO party, you were not allowed to claim Single Operator (SO) status if you used CW Skimmer. It is considered outside assistance that gives the operator an unfair advantage. I agree, except that I hope they don't discourage using the K3 using the same logic! 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Will somebody explain to me how it is outside assistance any more than a big antenna farm or a smart radio? No person is providing help--unlike packet cluster. RTTY and PSK contests all use the same kind of outside assistance. Yet they are allowed to enter as single op. Perhaps people need to recognized that CW is a digital mode too. Why don't we encourage the use of new technology rather than trying to still hold the Olympics in the nude with sticks and stones as the technology? 73 de Brian/K3KO Fred Atchley wrote: Eric wrote: Will we outlaw it, like ARRL may or may not do with CW Skimmer? For the 2009 California QSO party, you were not allowed to claim Single Operator (SO) status if you used CW Skimmer. It is considered outside assistance that gives the operator an unfair advantage. I agree, except that I hope they don't discourage using the K3 using the same logic! 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Brian Are you implying that some of us operate contest while nude? Discusting! Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Will somebody explain to me how it is outside assistance any more than a big antenna farm or a smart radio? No person is providing help--unlike packet cluster. RTTY and PSK contests all use the same kind of outside assistance. Yet they are allowed to enter as single op. Perhaps people need to recognized that CW is a digital mode too. Why don't we encourage the use of new technology rather than trying to still hold the Olympics in the nude with sticks and stones as the technology? 73 de Brian/K3KO Fred Atchley wrote: Eric wrote: Will we outlaw it, like ARRL may or may not do with CW Skimmer? For the 2009 California QSO party, you were not allowed to claim Single Operator (SO) status if you used CW Skimmer. It is considered outside assistance that gives the operator an unfair advantage. I agree, except that I hope they don't discourage using the K3 using the same logic! 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2695 - Release Date: 02/18/10 02:34:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I have to assume that the folks that don't like the idea of CW Skimmer have never done any psk-31. For some reason, using SuperBrowser for PSK is ok, but Skimmer is not? It doesn't make any sense at all, at least in general. CW Skimmer gives us the capability to see multiple stations on the screen, just as we have been able to with PSK for quite a while. I like CW, and software like CW Skimmer allows CW to equal PSK in convenience. Or do we just want everyone switching to PSK, and leave CW for the history books? I realize that many run CW without a computer, and it may be an unfair advantage, but then so is an antenna up 100ft with a 1500W amp competing against a poor ham with a dipole and 100W. The hams with the megabucks have the advantage no matter what. :) RTTY and PSK contests all use the same kind of outside assistance. Yet they are allowed to enter as single op. Perhaps people need to recognized that CW is a digital mode too. 73 de Brian/K3KO .. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4595647.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Well watching the Nude Olympics would be a pretty good event this year, have you checked out some of the gals in the ski and snow boarding events? Take ones mind of off P3 and K3 rubbish talk for a while at least. Merv KH7C Brian Are you implying that some of us operate contest while nude? Discusting! Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Will somebody explain to me how it is outside assistance any more than a big antenna farm or a smart radio? No person is providing help--unlike packet cluster. RTTY and PSK contests all use the same kind of outside assistance. Yet they are allowed to enter as single op. Perhaps people need to recognized that CW is a digital mode too. Why don't we encourage the use of new technology rather than trying to still hold the Olympics in the nude with sticks and stones as the technology? 73 de Brian/K3KO Fred Atchley wrote: Eric wrote: Will we outlaw it, like ARRL may or may not do with CW Skimmer? For the 2009 California QSO party, you were not allowed to claim Single Operator (SO) status if you used CW Skimmer. It is considered outside assistance that gives the operator an unfair advantage. I agree, except that I hope they don't discourage using the K3 using the same logic! 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2695 - Release Date: 02/18/10 02:34:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Well watching the Nude Olympics would be a pretty good event this year, have you checked out some of the gals in the ski and snow boarding events? If one returned to the nude with sticks era of the Olympics, the women would not be permitted to participate or even attend. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Merv Schweigert Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:21 PM To: Steve Ellington Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Well watching the Nude Olympics would be a pretty good event this year, have you checked out some of the gals in the ski and snow boarding events? Take ones mind of off P3 and K3 rubbish talk for a while at least. Merv KH7C Brian Are you implying that some of us operate contest while nude? Discusting! Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Brian Alsop als...@nc.rr.com Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Will somebody explain to me how it is outside assistance any more than a big antenna farm or a smart radio? No person is providing help--unlike packet cluster. RTTY and PSK contests all use the same kind of outside assistance. Yet they are allowed to enter as single op. Perhaps people need to recognized that CW is a digital mode too. Why don't we encourage the use of new technology rather than trying to still hold the Olympics in the nude with sticks and stones as the technology? 73 de Brian/K3KO Fred Atchley wrote: Eric wrote: Will we outlaw it, like ARRL may or may not do with CW Skimmer? For the 2009 California QSO party, you were not allowed to claim Single Operator (SO) status if you used CW Skimmer. It is considered outside assistance that gives the operator an unfair advantage. I agree, except that I hope they don't discourage using the K3 using the same logic! 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2695 - Release Date: 02/18/10 02:34:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Bob - W0GI wrote: After feeding the K3 IF through LP-Pan, then to PowerSDR-IF and CW Skimmer, you don't have to convince me. ... My favorite is CW Skimmer. With the Audio IF setting at -4174, I click on a text of a signal, and it tunes the K3 to zero beat on that frequency. Ready contact that station instantly. It just doesn't get much better then that. :) I don't know. Someone could write a bit of software to actually reply to the station and make the contact saving you the bother. Wouldn't that be even better? :P) - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4585012.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I'm not anit-scope; just don't think I can justify the cost based upon my casual operating style. Certainly I would like to have one to play around with, I just don't want to pay for it... For the scenarios you listed below I think a non-scope K3 could be much improved if it had a wider bandpass and more sophisticated scanner. Although I operate almost entirely in CW my bandpass is typically set wide open. However, this is effectively only aout 2 KHz max, which is not nearly wide enough when you want to hear what is going on around you on the band. As for the K3 scanner, it is rudimentary and of very limited usefulness. It has a few one-size-fits-all scanning rates, which never seem to be exactly appropriate (depending on how much territory you want to cover). Also the dwell time for squelched scanning is, as far as I can tell, completely random: sometimes it stops for a fraction of a second, sometimes for many seconds. The scanner would be much more useful if it had a user variable scanning rate (perhaps implemented in some way with the VFO B knob or RIT control), so that one could smoothly vary the rate while the receiver is scanning. Same goes for a user controllable dwell time. But I suppose few K3 owners have even tried the scanner, so there probably isn't much call to improve it. 73, Drew AF2Z On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:35:50 -0500, Steve N4LQ wrote: My 19 monitor is showing a cw segment of 40 meters in the early afternoon. I see 4 active cw signals. Tell meWhat would be the odds of finding those signals by tuning across the band with a knob? You would miss hearing the signal if: 1. As you tuned across his frequency, he paused and you didn't hear him. 2. As you tuned across his frequency, he turned it over to the other guy who is too weak to hear. 3. His cw speed is so slow that you tuned across his frequency in between characters. 4. He ended his CQ before you tuned to his frequency. 5. His singnal faded into the noise right when you were tuning through his frequency. 6. You heard a beep as you tuned but now you can't find where he was. 7. He started calling CQ right as you tuned past his frequency. Once you've had a bandscope, it's hard to live without it. See it in action: http://n4lq.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=8215456 Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I'd be more impressed if it made a hole on 20M on Saturday during CQWWDX Steve :jumping: Scopes are nice tools, but must have is open to debate. Part of the fun of radio is tuning across the band and finding something on your own, before it's spotted... A better question, from my perspective, is how many new blips can it pick out when the band is packed from 14000 to 14130 with layers of CW signals, like during CQWWDX. 73, Julius - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4586233.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. 73, Eric WA6HHQ On 2/16/2010 6:40 PM, Ken Alexander wrote: I suspect the toy factor will be responsible for the majority of P3 purchases! 8-) 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Phil Hystadk7...@comcast.net wrote: I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I actually like sending with the paddles, but using the VFO knob isn't that exciting. If I see a CQ on CW Skimmer, I can click on the text, and it tunes the K3 zero beat on that signal. Or I can turn the vfo knob then spot the signal, using up time for no purpose. Why not use a tuning aid? I like tuning the bands just like anyone else, and it is still a great way to operate. With the K1, it is the only way, and with the wide vfo range, I can get a lot of practice using the knob. If I want to work a lot of stations, I can work more using the skimmer. I don't understand some of the resistance to tools like band-scopes and skimmers? Should we go back to separate transmitters and receivers with a one rate vfo? Get rid of antenna tuners, and go outside to retune our antennas when we want to QSY? I'm sure there are plenty of hams with boat anchors that will tell you how they don't need a K3 or any rig made after 1965. :) I do understand those that say you don't need it, because you really don't need it. But at the same time, if you do use the tools, I don't see it as a bad thing. They are just tools. Turning the knobs or clicking a mouse gets us to the same place. Have fun and make contacts. I don't know. Someone could write a bit of software to actually reply to the station and make the contact saving you the bother. Wouldn't that be even better? :P) -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587143.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. But you would still need a SoftRock, LP-Pan or whatever to make sense of it. Pity it doesn't provide an I/Q output, then you would just need a sound card. Presumably it must produce the I/Q data internally, so wouldn't that be possible? - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587296.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
It would be great if the P3 provided I/Q output's as well. Perhaps some knockout plugs on the back chassis panel would allow various output jacks and facilitate lots of user customizations. Eliminating the duplication of the same via separate hardware connected to the buffered IF output would be a real plus. 73 de Brian/K3KO Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. 73, Eric WA6HHQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Bob - W0GI wrote: I actually like sending with the paddles, but using the VFO knob isn't that exciting. If I see a CQ on CW Skimmer, I can click on the text, and it tunes the K3 zero beat on that signal. Or I can turn the vfo knob then spot the signal, using up time for no purpose. Why not use a tuning aid? Because I think there is more pleasure in discovering a signal by tuning into it than having a computer point it out to you. And why do we do this if not for enjoyment? Someone commenting on my blog today put it admirably. He said: There is a fine balance between enjoying the technology and the way it enhances the hobby, to being over-taken by it and draining the hobby of joy. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587339.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Wouldn't it be better just to get the digital stream that is sampled from the I/Q signals. That way, the ADC is done just once. Then, your computer can take the binary stream (new interface needed I guess) from the P3 and then do what it wants with various digital filters and other F/X. On Feb 17, 2010, at 9:17 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: It would be great if the P3 provided I/Q output's as well. Perhaps some knockout plugs on the back chassis panel would allow various output jacks and facilitate lots of user customizations. Eliminating the duplication of the same via separate hardware connected to the buffered IF output would be a real plus. 73 de Brian/K3KO Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. 73, Eric WA6HHQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Eric, That's good but two questions... 1) If you purchase a P3, do you also have to purchase a KXV3A or will one be included? 2) In addition to the buffered K3 IF feedthrough, will the inphase (I) and quadrature (Q) audio components of the downshifted IF be provided as an additional output (ala LP-PAN)? Thanks! Ted, W2ZK On 2/17/2010 11:59 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. 73, Eric WA6HHQ On 2/16/2010 6:40 PM, Ken Alexander wrote: I suspect the toy factor will be responsible for the majority of P3 purchases! 8-) 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Phil Hystadk7...@comcast.net wrote: I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
It was pointed out to me that, as a tool, a P3/Panadapter/Softrock does provide a quick way of assessing activity on a given band quickly versus twirling the knob. I can see where this would be useful, particularly if you were looking for openings on 10 and 15, in the past few years. Too, you could assess how solid the opening might be. H, $700... Will have to check it out further in Dayton. Thanks Gary for the unsolicited advice=) 73, Julius - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587460.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Why couldn't the P3 have had buffered IQ outputs so that it wouldn't be necessary to purchase extra hardware to run those other PC apps? The IQ signals have to be there inside the P3 anyway, right? 73, Dave AB7E --Original Mail-- From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com To: Ken Alexander k.alexan...@rogers.com, Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:59:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. 73, Eric WA6HHQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Er, I thought that was kind of the point of it all. To find and work stations with just your radio using your basic operating skills (i.e. listening) is part of the overall enjoyment? Try it sometime - I.e. turn on your 400 or even 200hz CW filter and start at the very bottom of the band. Start working your way up very slowly and see how many sigs you can scare up. with a really good RX like our elecrafts, you'll be amazed at what you'll actually find down there right above the noise if you scan manually and slow/carefully. Or practice starting off with a wider filter to spot sigs then keep narrowing as you listen up and down. It's definitely a skill and one that can be quite enjoyable to develop. I dunno, a scope just kind of takes the fun out of the easter egg hunt for me. It is kind of neat for getting a big picture of the activity on the band, but actually hunting them down I prefer to do with just the VFO and the filters like I had to do in The Old Days hi hi. JMO, LS W5QD, K2 #6880 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587534.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
your K3 will need to have the KXV3 or KXV3a for IF output. Its not included with the P3 since most K3s already have added it. I/Q is not available as an output. That would seriously delay the P3 release and add to our cost. Its not a trivial add since its only derived internally in the DSPPIC that drives the P3. We may be able to add it as a future option. Stay tuned! 73, Eric On 2/17/2010 9:28 AM, Ted Roycraft wrote: Eric, That's good but two questions... 1) If you purchase a P3, do you also have to purchase a KXV3A or will one be included? 2) In addition to the buffered K3 IF feedthrough, will the inphase (I) and quadrature (Q) audio components of the downshifted IF be provided as an additional output (ala LP-PAN)? Thanks! Ted, W2ZK On 2/17/2010 11:59 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Also note that the P3 provides a buffered K3 If feedthrough to drive other PC apps like Skimmer, PowerSDR etc. 73, Eric WA6HHQ On 2/16/2010 6:40 PM, Ken Alexander wrote: I suspect the toy factor will be responsible for the majority of P3 purchases! 8-) 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Phil Hystadk7...@comcast.netwrote: I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Er, I thought that was kind of the point of it all. To find and work stations with just your radio using your basic operating skills (i.e. listening) is part of the overall enjoyment? I like CW Skimmer, but for very weak signals, your ears work better. These debates usually become PC vs No PC. Using the knob and your ears is going to work best for finding the weak ones, but using the skimmer also has it place. Personaly, I am going to use all the tools I have available, and not worry about it. I don't see any threat from using technology. It's all fun for me. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587644.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Well I'm mac-only at home so I can't use a lot of the cool stuff like that hi hi. But seriously, I can definitely see how a scope or etc. can be useful for, say, contesting. And I didn't mean to take away from visual innovations like this for amateur radio. I'm kind of a CW shellback, but that doesn't mean the rest of our hobby should be like me, hi. I finally got around to watching the video of the P3 display and it looks really neat LS -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4587701.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Can't we go back to spark as Telsa, Marconi, and God intended it to be? 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR (circa 1956) K2TKR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Can't we go back to spark as Telsa, Marconi, and God intended it to be? I can visualize the poster: A stormy sky with lots of lighting ... and the caption God uses spark __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Julius wrote: It was pointed out to me that, as a tool, a P3/Panadapter/Softrock does provide a quick way of assessing activity on a given band quickly versus twirling the knob. I can see where this would be useful, particularly if you were looking for openings on 10 and 15, in the past few years. Too, you could assess how solid the opening might be. I agree Julius. Sunspot Cycle 24 may be my last chance to enjoy 10 15 meters. Looking through a Ha solar telescope reveals a Sun that is waking up big time. The California QSO party is my objective time to have a P3 up-and-running and to have efficient strategies ready to employ in the contest. Although I got my Novice ticket in 1957, I've never enjoyed Ham Radio as much as today. The reason is that a small company, Elecraft, has combined unequaled effectiveness, reasonable cost, fast upgradability, and unsurpassed service. The K3 has earned Elecraft a place in the Ham Radio Hall of Fame. Their success is our success. I'm looking forward to the P3. 73, Fred, AE6IC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 06:26:26AM -0800 I heard the voice of Julius Fazekas n2wn, and lo! it spake thus: Part of the fun of radio is tuning across the band and finding something on your own, before it's spotted... These sort of statements always make me twitch. All of (not just part of) the fun of radio (like of anything) is what YOU enjoy about it. You (generic you, not necessarily Julius in particular) may get a lot of joy out of finding a signal, while for other people finding the signal is a miserable ritual that they just have to put up with to get to the FUN part, which is talking to the person. It's no different than some people LOVING building a radio / antenna / whatever, just for its own sake (and may not even like actually _being on the air_ much at all, comparatively), whereas for others it's slow torture, and waste of time that could be spent buying one already built and getting on the air with it. (And don't try to read that as a direct analogy either, because it's perfectly possible to enjoy the lower-level of building while hating the lower-level of searching for a signal) It can be a fine line between communicating I enjoy X and X is the enjoyable part. The former can lead to interesting discussions and comparisons, but the latter pretty much always comes across argumentative and just tends toward building up steam. The complication is that people often mean the former, and phrase it as the latter. Lose-lose :( -- Matthew Fuller, N3TZJ n3...@n3tzj.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
:clap: ROTFLMAO Well put Matthew! (Matthew 7:12 I suspect?) I should have qualified my statement with for me. Wording is an important part of communicating an idea. I did not mean to pontificate. Cheers, Julius - Julius Fazekas N2WN Tennessee Contest Group http://www.k4ro.net/tcg/index.html Tennessee QSO Party http://www.tnqp.org/ Elecraft K2/100 #4455 Elecraft K3/100 #366 Elecraft K3#1875 -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4588139.html Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
And just what was that??? Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: Bob k...@att.net To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes Can't we go back to spark as Telsa, Marconi, and God intended it to be? 73, Bob K2TK ex KN2TKR (circa 1956) K2TKR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Hi Eric, Good to know, I will order one when we will be able to place the on-line order for the P3. 73's Philippe A65BI K3#3616 *Elecraft, by Hams, for Hams...What else ? Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com 17-02-2010 22:05 your K3 will need to have the KXV3 or KXV3a for IF output. Its not included with the P3 since most K3s already have added it. I/Q is not available as an output. That would seriously delay the P3 release and add to our cost. Its not a trivial add since its only derived internally in the DSPPIC that drives the P3. We may be able to add it as a future option. Stay tuned! 73, Eric On 2/17/2010 9:28 AM, Ted Roycraft wrote: Eric, That's good but two questions... 1) If you purchase a P3, do you also have to purchase a KXV3A or will one be included? 2) In addition to the buffered K3 IF feedthrough, will the inphase (I) and quadrature (Q) audio components of the downshifted IF be provided as an additional output (ala LP-PAN)? Thanks! Ted, W2ZK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
How did we ever find each other before all of this computer stuff? I mean I had only 250 or so countries confirmed using paper and pencil logs and the only computer I was familiar with was an HP9000 series at work running HP Basic (with 250K of RAM!). --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com wrote: My 19 monitor is showing a cw segment of 40 meters in the early afternoon. I see 4 active cw signals. Tell meWhat would be the odds of finding those signals by tuning across the band with a knob? You would miss hearing the signal if: 1. As you tuned across his frequency, he paused and you didn't hear him. 2. As you tuned across his frequency, he turned it over to the other guy who is too weak to hear. 3. His cw speed is so slow that you tuned across his frequency in between characters. 4. He ended his CQ before you tuned to his frequency. 5. His singnal faded into the noise right when you were tuning through his frequency. 6. You heard a beep as you tuned but now you can't find where he was. 7. He started calling CQ right as you tuned past his frequency. Once you've had a bandscope, it's hard to live without it. See it in action: http://n4lq.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=8215456 Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
My first thought after I read the subject line was, Why is he bringing up the Monkey trial? I never once thought of a computerized gadget. I guess having numbers on a dial is kind of neat but unnecessary to communications :) Kind of like fishing: do you really want to know where all the fish are? Do you want to catch ALL the fish? Or do you just want to go fishing? Kevin. KD5ONS -Original Message- From: Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com Sent: Feb 16, 2010 5:13 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes How did we ever find each other before all of this computer stuff? I mean I had only 250 or so countries confirmed using paper and pencil logs and the only computer I was familiar with was an HP9000 series at work running HP Basic (with 250K of RAM!). --- On Tue, 2/16/10, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com wrote: My 19 monitor is showing a cw segment of 40 meters in the early afternoon. I see 4 active cw signals. Tell meWhat would be the odds of finding those signals by tuning across the band with a knob? You would miss hearing the signal if: 1. As you tuned across his frequency, he paused and you didn't hear him. 2. As you tuned across his frequency, he turned it over to the other guy who is too weak to hear. 3. His cw speed is so slow that you tuned across his frequency in between characters. 4. He ended his CQ before you tuned to his frequency. 5. His singnal faded into the noise right when you were tuning through his frequency. 6. You heard a beep as you tuned but now you can't find where he was. 7. He started calling CQ right as you tuned past his frequency. Once you've had a bandscope, it's hard to live without it. See it in action: http://n4lq.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=8215456 Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Oh my goodness! What are we talking here for a P3, somewhere around $700? I'm supposed to spend that kind of money to find people on 40 metres in the early afternoon? It's cheaper to tune through the band with a wide filter selected. And if I miss someone, good heavens, is it really the end of the world? If I'm looking for DX it's easier and cheaper to check a DX cluster. A scope might be handy in contests, so that makes it useful to me maybe 6 to 8 weekends a year. No sale there either. This afternoon I could hear the 1 watt signal from the NCDXF 20m beacon in Hawaii. I could also hear (weakly) the 100 mW signal from the NCDXF beacon in South Africa with my K2 and a vertical...so you can probably guess my opinion on amplifiers. 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com wrote: From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com Subject: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 12:35 AM My 19 monitor is showing a cw segment of 40 meters in the early afternoon. I see 4 active cw signals. Tell meWhat would be the odds of finding those signals by tuning across the band with a knob? You would miss hearing the signal if: 1. As you tuned across his frequency, he paused and you didn't hear him. 2. As you tuned across his frequency, he turned it over to the other guy who is too weak to hear. 3. His cw speed is so slow that you tuned across his frequency in between characters. 4. He ended his CQ before you tuned to his frequency. 5. His singnal faded into the noise right when you were tuning through his frequency. 6. You heard a beep as you tuned but now you can't find where he was. 7. He started calling CQ right as you tuned past his frequency. Once you've had a bandscope, it's hard to live without it. See it in action: http://n4lq.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=8215456 Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
After feeding the K3 IF through LP-Pan, then to PowerSDR-IF and CW Skimmer, you don't have to convince me. As a matter of fact, I am pretty blown away by how everything goes together so well. With LP-Bridge running the K3 RS232 management, I don't even have to worry about shutting one program down to start another. PowerSDR-IF, HRD, Skimmer, K3_EZ, and K3_Util are all assigned to virtual com ports, and you can run them simultaneously if you want. My favorite is CW Skimmer. With the Audio IF setting at -4174, I click on a text of a signal, and it tunes the K3 to zero beat on that frequency. Ready contact that station instantly. It just doesn't get much better then that. :) I have a 22 monitor and an Intel i7 quad core, so no problem with CPU. Those $10-12K radios can't hold a candle to this setup. And it is not that expensive. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4583789.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I have gotten totally hooked on my LP Pan and CW Skimmer. I can't imagine operating without them. Craig Buck On Feb 16, 2010, at 8:35 PM, Ken Alexander k.alexan...@rogers.com wrote: Oh my goodness! What are we talking here for a P3, somewhere around $700? I'm supposed to spend that kind of money to find people on 40 metres in the early afternoon? It's cheaper to tune through the band with a wide filter selected. And if I miss someone, good heavens, is it really the end of the world? If I'm looking for DX it's easier and cheaper to check a DX cluster. A scope might be handy in contests, so that makes it useful to me maybe 6 to 8 weekends a year. No sale there either. This afternoon I could hear the 1 watt signal from the NCDXF 20m beacon in Hawaii. I could also hear (weakly) the 100 mW signal from the NCDXF beacon in South Africa with my K2 and a vertical...so you can probably guess my opinion on amplifiers. 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com wrote: From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com Subject: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, February 17, 2010, 12:35 AM My 19 monitor is showing a cw segment of 40 meters in the early afternoon. I see 4 active cw signals. Tell meWhat would be the odds of finding those signals by tuning across the band with a knob? You would miss hearing the signal if: 1. As you tuned across his frequency, he paused and you didn't hear him. 2. As you tuned across his frequency, he turned it over to the other guy who is too weak to hear. 3. His cw speed is so slow that you tuned across his frequency in between characters. 4. He ended his CQ before you tuned to his frequency. 5. His singnal faded into the noise right when you were tuning through his frequency. 6. You heard a beep as you tuned but now you can't find where he was. 7. He started calling CQ right as you tuned past his frequency. Once you've had a bandscope, it's hard to live without it. See it in action: http://n4lq.webs.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=8215456 Steve N4LQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
How did we ever find each other before all of this computer stuff? You don't need it at all, but it is nice. I am tuned on 40 right now, and just brought up the callsign screen on CW Skimmer. I have a list of 30 callsigns that are in CW QSOs right now. It would take a while to do that by tuning up and down. and waiting for each de . I have been doing it without a computer for 35 years or so, and will continue doing it that way at times, but there is nothing wrong with using tools that are available, and CW Skimmer is a great tool. As for expense, I got an LP-Pan off of EBay for $135, and it goes to a PC and Soundcard I already had. The best $135 I have spent for a while. -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4583818.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
On Feb 16, 2010, at 5:35 PM, Ken Alexander wrote: Oh my goodness! What are we talking here for a P3, somewhere around $700? I'm supposed to spend that kind of money to find people on 40 metres in the early afternoon? It's cheaper to tune through the band with a wide filter selected. And if I miss someone, good heavens, is it really the end of the world? If I'm looking for DX it's easier and cheaper to check a DX cluster. I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I suspect the toy factor will be responsible for the majority of P3 purchases! 8-) 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net wrote: I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
So this whole Scopes thing has nothing to do with monkeys and evolution? Kevin. -Original Message- From: Ken Alexander k.alexan...@rogers.com Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:40 PM To: Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes I suspect the toy factor will be responsible for the majority of P3 purchases! 8-) 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net wrote: I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
I tell all you sinners out there in radio land, You will be buying five tube Halicrafters and you will Inherited the wind. N6XVT On Feb 16, 2010, at 6:45 PM, Kevin Rock wrote: So this whole Scopes thing has nothing to do with monkeys and evolution? Kevin. -Original Message- From: Ken Alexander k.alexan...@rogers.com Sent: Feb 16, 2010 6:40 PM To: Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes I suspect the toy factor will be responsible for the majority of P3 purchases! 8-) 73, Ken Alexander VE3HLS --- On Wed, 2/17/10, Phil Hystad k7...@comcast.net wrote: I think you might be overlooking the toy factor of owning the P3. I think it is a cool and neat toy so I am buying one. 73, phil, K7PEH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
Halicrafters
My Drake TR-4C has the best SSB audio in the world, but it can't save me.
:{
--
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Re: [Elecraft] For you Anti-Scopes
The humor Bob is not in radio, There is a book called To Inherit The Wind,
its is about the Scopes ( if sp correct ) Monkey trails. About teaching
Evolution in public schools.
N6XVT
On Feb 16, 2010, at 9:04 PM, Bob - W0GI wrote:
Halicrafters
My Drake TR-4C has the best SSB audio in the world, but it can't save me.
:{
--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/For-you-Anti-Scopes-tp4583569p4584423.html
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