Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
All, Thanks for the input. Glad the K3 seems to be operating up to snuff. I now consider this issue closed. 73 and have a great weekend. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 11:27 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: Ian, So your K3 is operating a bit more efficiently than average - what is to be worried about, be glad. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/10/2013 10:23 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: So, several weeks after originally starting this thread, I finally had time this evening to sit down and take some voltage and current measurements. I used my Astron SS-30 power supply connected to the 40A DC-in port on my Rigrunner. I then ran the Elecraft power cord from a 25A port on the Rigrunner into the 12V DC-in on the back of the K3. Everything measures 13.8V in standy/rx, all the way to the reading on the K3 display, with the K3 showing .82A current draw in rxv. I would measure the power at the 12V in port on the K3, but can't see a way to get the probes into the powerpole connectors without damaging anything. I ran my tests using FSK-D at 100W and into a known-good 300W dummy load, so I could get 100% duty cycle for a few seconds with each transmit. When I go to transmit, voltage on every band looks good, with the voltage dropping from 13.8V to anywhere from 12.1 to 12.4 volts. I'm concerned about some of the current readings, however. 80 meters shows a current draw of 15.80A; 17 meters shows a draw of 16.35A; 15 meters shows a draw of 16.40A; 10 meters shows a draw of 12.93A. 12m, 20m, 30m, 40m, and 160m are all within the 17-22A current draw rating for the K3. The RF output meter on the K3 shows 100w out on every band, but I haven't put the rig on an external watt meter. Since these are all below the nominal current draw given in the K3 owner's manual (17-22A), is there something I should look at recalibrating? Or could something more serious be going here that I need to be concerned about? Or, am I worried about nothing? Further guidance is greatly appreciated. -- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
So, several weeks after originally starting this thread, I finally had time this evening to sit down and take some voltage and current measurements. I used my Astron SS-30 power supply connected to the 40A DC-in port on my Rigrunner. I then ran the Elecraft power cord from a 25A port on the Rigrunner into the 12V DC-in on the back of the K3. Everything measures 13.8V in standy/rx, all the way to the reading on the K3 display, with the K3 showing .82A current draw in rxv. I would measure the power at the 12V in port on the K3, but can't see a way to get the probes into the powerpole connectors without damaging anything. I ran my tests using FSK-D at 100W and into a known-good 300W dummy load, so I could get 100% duty cycle for a few seconds with each transmit. When I go to transmit, voltage on every band looks good, with the voltage dropping from 13.8V to anywhere from 12.1 to 12.4 volts. I'm concerned about some of the current readings, however. 80 meters shows a current draw of 15.80A; 17 meters shows a draw of 16.35A; 15 meters shows a draw of 16.40A; 10 meters shows a draw of 12.93A. 12m, 20m, 30m, 40m, and 160m are all within the 17-22A current draw rating for the K3. The RF output meter on the K3 shows 100w out on every band, but I haven't put the rig on an external watt meter. Since these are all below the nominal current draw given in the K3 owner's manual (17-22A), is there something I should look at recalibrating? Or could something more serious be going here that I need to be concerned about? Or, am I worried about nothing? Further guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you and 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/25/2012 11:52 AM, AG0N-3055 wrote: On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 13:58:35 -0500, Brian Alsop wrote: The first rule in troubleshooting is to unplug everything that isn't absolutely necessary to the equipment being diagnosed. In this case all that would be needed is power, ant/dummy load and the K3. Absolutely. Make sure you use good quality connectors, cables, etc. If possible, plug the wattmeter directly into the RF output on the back of the rig (NOT the tuner or amplifier), using a double male if possible, and plug the PROPER, good quality dummy load directly into the wattmeter. Remember, every connector you go through, loses you fraction of a db. How many connections, cables, etc., does it take to equal one db of loss? Not too many. One db is 26%! If you lose 1db getting between the output port and the load, the load will only see 74W with 100W output from the transmitter. Something to think about. A typical old style tuner will lose you around 5 watts or more. Gary __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, the efficiency of the KPA100 in the K3 varies quite a bit from band to band, hence the current draw needed to attain 100 watts varies. That's normal. I'd not be concerned about your numbers. To illustrate, I took a minute to check the current required by my K3 on all the bands feeding a dummy load: 160M - 17.45A 80M - 15.1A 40M - 14.9A 30M - 17.3A 20M - 18.2A 17M - 15.8A 15M - 15.4A 12M - 20.3A 10M - 12.1A 6M - 14.6A The current demand from K3 to K3 will also vary, so don't be surprised by some variations. Also, the voltage on mine stayed between 12.9 and 13.2 volts under load. The lower the supply voltage, the more current required to produce 100 watts. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:23 PM To: mcduf...@garymcduffie.com Cc: elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue So, several weeks after originally starting this thread, I finally had time this evening to sit down and take some voltage and current measurements. I used my Astron SS-30 power supply connected to the 40A DC-in port on my Rigrunner. I then ran the Elecraft power cord from a 25A port on the Rigrunner into the 12V DC-in on the back of the K3. Everything measures 13.8V in standy/rx, all the way to the reading on the K3 display, with the K3 showing .82A current draw in rxv. I would measure the power at the 12V in port on the K3, but can't see a way to get the probes into the powerpole connectors without damaging anything. I ran my tests using FSK-D at 100W and into a known-good 300W dummy load, so I could get 100% duty cycle for a few seconds with each transmit. When I go to transmit, voltage on every band looks good, with the voltage dropping from 13.8V to anywhere from 12.1 to 12.4 volts. I'm concerned about some of the current readings, however. 80 meters shows a current draw of 15.80A; 17 meters shows a draw of 16.35A; 15 meters shows a draw of 16.40A; 10 meters shows a draw of 12.93A. 12m, 20m, 30m, 40m, and 160m are all within the 17-22A current draw rating for the K3. The RF output meter on the K3 shows 100w out on every band, but I haven't put the rig on an external watt meter. Since these are all below the nominal current draw given in the K3 owner's manual (17-22A), is there something I should look at recalibrating? Or could something more serious be going here that I need to be concerned about? Or, am I worried about nothing? Further guidance is greatly appreciated. Thank you and 73, --Ian __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, So your K3 is operating a bit more efficiently than average - what is to be worried about, be glad. 73, Don W3FPR On 1/10/2013 10:23 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: So, several weeks after originally starting this thread, I finally had time this evening to sit down and take some voltage and current measurements. I used my Astron SS-30 power supply connected to the 40A DC-in port on my Rigrunner. I then ran the Elecraft power cord from a 25A port on the Rigrunner into the 12V DC-in on the back of the K3. Everything measures 13.8V in standy/rx, all the way to the reading on the K3 display, with the K3 showing .82A current draw in rxv. I would measure the power at the 12V in port on the K3, but can't see a way to get the probes into the powerpole connectors without damaging anything. I ran my tests using FSK-D at 100W and into a known-good 300W dummy load, so I could get 100% duty cycle for a few seconds with each transmit. When I go to transmit, voltage on every band looks good, with the voltage dropping from 13.8V to anywhere from 12.1 to 12.4 volts. I'm concerned about some of the current readings, however. 80 meters shows a current draw of 15.80A; 17 meters shows a draw of 16.35A; 15 meters shows a draw of 16.40A; 10 meters shows a draw of 12.93A. 12m, 20m, 30m, 40m, and 160m are all within the 17-22A current draw rating for the K3. The RF output meter on the K3 shows 100w out on every band, but I haven't put the rig on an external watt meter. Since these are all below the nominal current draw given in the K3 owner's manual (17-22A), is there something I should look at recalibrating? Or could something more serious be going here that I need to be concerned about? Or, am I worried about nothing? Further guidance is greatly appreciated. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
***Correction; make that voltage readings instead of 'ammeter readings'*** Yes, the outside insulation diameter looks the same as the K3 wire, but I can see a difference in the wire size. It was a piece I had. There are no markings. I now live rural. I can buy single 10 ga. black and red locally that I trust. I will put both in my cordless drill and twist them. I want to have a second person to operate the key when I use a DVM. Bert's K3 ammeter readings were very similar to mine, and spot-on at key up. If you followed those readings, you know what that indicates! Rich, n0ce - Original Message - From: bill ny9h To: Richard Fjeld ; n...@aol.com Cc: elecraft posting Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question I used a piece of red/black paired wire .. prompts me to mention that just because it says it is 10 gauge or 12 or whatever gauge take a good look before you buy that spool...i have bought stuff red/black that was NOT as printed on the spool or the wire. and as you might guess it was too small diameter. I keep some standards... and a wire gauge.. ( I love the hamfest vendors that label that stuff 12 guage bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
Don, thanks for your reply and your concern; No, the section of wire that I need to replace is from the PS to the distribution blocks. That section of wire now appears to be one size smaller than the K3 wire. It should be equal, or larger. The present wire length may not make much difference in resistance, but I don't want an impairment to exist. I'm CC'ing this to the group to clear up any mis-understanding. While I have the band width, Bert n4cw mentioned fuses/holders can be a source of voltage drop. He is so right. On a former job, we routinely looked for voltage drop across our large fuses during normal use. Thanks again, Rich, n0ce - Original Message - From: Don Wilhelm To: Richard Fjeld Cc: bill ny9h Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question Rich, The 10 ga. wire is too large to fit into the APP connectors supplied by Elecraft. Either use 12 ga. or if the run is long, use the 10 ga. and get APP connectors that fit it. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/27/2012 10:50 AM, Richard Fjeld wrote: Yes, the outside insulation diameter looks the same as the K3 wire, but I can see a difference in the wire size. It was a piece I had. There are no markings. I now live rural. I can buy single 10 ga. black and red locally that I trust. I will put both in my cordless drill and twist them. I want to have a second person to operate the key when I use a DVM. Bert's K3 ammeter readings were very similar to mine, and spot-on at key up. If you followed those readings, you know what that indicates! Rich, n0ce __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
First of all, regarding a DC power distribution strip: I used a RigRuner 4009 and found that there was a significant voltage drop from the power source (Astron RS-35M) to the K3. Having taken measurements with a DVM, I concluded that the largest drop was from the distribution strip to the K3. A simple solution was to power the K3 from the larger main wire pair that fed the distribution strip. Then, to satisfy my own curiosity, I made the following meaurements today using the DVM then I took readings with the internal K3 meter: DVM measurements: 13.773 VDC at the RS-35 terminals 13.735 VDC at K3 connector in RX mode 13.599 VDC at K3 connector in TX-Tune mode (10W out) 12.860 VDC at K3 connector in TX mode (100W out) K3 meter readings: 13.6 VDC in RX mode 13.1 VDC in TX-Tune mode (10W out) 12.4 VDC in TX mode (100W out) What's interesting is that the K3 meter current indication decreases with time when I make the test in TX mode (100W out), starting at about 18.2 Amps or so, then going down, down, down to 14.something when I let up on the hand key. I kept the key down just 15 or 20 seconds, not wanting to tempt fate!!! Power output stayed at 100W throught the procedure. H I'm satisfied with those readings: everything works just fine! Bert, N4CW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
Thanks, Bert (nice call) I started out to share some info with Ian, and things got interesting at my qth. Some of your measurements are similar to mine. Here are the details of what I found in case a person is interested: I used a piece of red/black paired wire from my Astron to my homebrew distribution. Without disconnecting it, I think it looks a size smaller than the wire to the K3. I also looked at the fuse holder (buss type) and the wire on it looks smaller as well. I'm going to replace both with heavier wire. As for my distribution, I use ground blocks for AC power panels and mount them in plastic outlet boxes. I solder the ends of my wires before I tighten the screws down on them. I am not opposed to bypassing the distribution blocks if need be. I checked all my manuals for schematics, and finally downloaded them. I printed out the first six pages. I can see that the 12V out jack is not part of the ammeter sensing, so the P3 current can be ignored when using the K3 ammeter. A couple replies said the current draw will vary by band. That is good to know. I wonder if you made your measurements on the 75/80 meter band as I did. I'm curious about your mention of the 18 amps tapering down to 14 amps thing. I need to do as you did and measure the voltage with my DVM at the PS, the distribution blocks, and the K3 terminals. From your readings, I can tell the voltage drop is not nearly as great as it appeared by the K3 meter. Using the K3 readings, I have 0.5 volt lower than you on key down, and that is acceptable. I should be able to correct that. And yes, as you said, 'everything works just fine'. Thanks much, Rich, n0ce - Original Message - From: n...@aol.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question First of all, regarding a DC power distribution strip: I used a RigRuner 4009 and found that there was a significant voltage drop from the power source (Astron RS-35M) to the K3. Having taken measurements with a DVM, I concluded that the largest drop was from the distribution strip to the K3. A simple solution was to power the K3 from the larger main wire pair that fed the distribution strip. Then, to satisfy my own curiosity, I made the following meaurements today using the DVM then I took readings with the internal K3 meter: DVM measurements: 13.773 VDC at the RS-35 terminals 13.735 VDC at K3 connector in RX mode 13.599 VDC at K3 connector in TX-Tune mode (10W out) 12.860 VDC at K3 connector in TX mode (100W out) K3 meter readings: 13.6 VDC in RX mode 13.1 VDC in TX-Tune mode (10W out) 12.4 VDC in TX mode (100W out) What's interesting is that the K3 meter current indication decreases with time when I make the test in TX mode (100W out), starting at about 18.2 Amps or so, then going down, down, down to 14.something when I let up on the hand key. I kept the key down just 15 or 20 seconds, not wanting to tempt fate!!! Power output stayed at 100W throught the procedure. H I'm satisfied with those readings: everything works just fine! Bert, N4CW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
I used a piece of red/black paired wire .. prompts me to mention that just because it says it is 10 gauge or 12 or whatever gauge take a good look before you buy that spool...i have bought stuff red/black that was NOT as printed on the spool or the wire. and as you might guess it was too small diameter. I keep some standards... and a wire gauge.. ( I love the hamfest vendors that label that stuff 12 guage bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
Not a problem if you buy from reputable dealers, My preferences are The Wireman and RF Parts Connection. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/26/2012 8:12 PM, bill ny9h wrote: I used a piece of red/black paired wire .. prompts me to mention that just because it says it is 10 gauge or 12 or whatever gauge take a good look before you buy that spool...i have bought stuff red/black that was NOT as printed on the spool or the wire. and as you might guess it was too small diameter. I keep some standards... and a wire gauge.. ( I love the hamfest vendors that label that stuff 12 guage __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 13:58:35 -0500, Brian Alsop wrote: The first rule in troubleshooting is to unplug everything that isn't absolutely necessary to the equipment being diagnosed. In this case all that would be needed is power, ant/dummy load and the K3. Absolutely. Make sure you use good quality connectors, cables, etc. If possible, plug the wattmeter directly into the RF output on the back of the rig (NOT the tuner or amplifier), using a double male if possible, and plug the PROPER, good quality dummy load directly into the wattmeter. Remember, every connector you go through, loses you fraction of a db. How many connections, cables, etc., does it take to equal one db of loss? Not too many. One db is 26%! If you lose 1db getting between the output port and the load, the load will only see 74W with 100W output from the transmitter. Something to think about. A typical old style tuner will lose you around 5 watts or more. Gary -- http://ag0n.net 3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055 NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue, and a new question
Good advice! (And a new question) I haven't followed this too closely until I saw Don mention blade-type automotive fuses. (Not to be confused with the heavier blade-type fuses.) We use a blade-type automotive fuse at our repeater site. I found the fuse holder melted one day. The fuse blade had slipped to one side of the internal terminal in the molded fuse holder. This caused a resistance connection. It is nearly impossible to tell when the fuse blades are properly inserted into the two terminals. As the current increased across the resistance the voltage drop increased. The Voltage times the current, produced enough wattage to melt the fuse holder, nearly creating a fire. Thankfully, it burned open. For Ian's benefit, I made some observations of my K3 for comparison, using my homebrew power distribution lash-up, and the wire used. (Emphasis on the latter) My Astron 35M is a bit light on voltage. Two DVMs show 13.66, and 13.72 Volts at the power supply. The K3 shows 13.6 V at the radio during key up. With key down, the K3 shows 11.9 V, and 15.4+ Amps. The Astron ammeter indicates at least 14 Amps. (I don't see the volt meter vary on the Astron) ***Considering that I have a P3 attached, Does that amperage track with other users?*** (Using simple math, the K3 seems to be very efficient on CW.) So, in summary, with my PS voltage and wiring lash-up, I am losing 1.7 Volts on key down. It indicates a full 100 Watts at the K3, at my in-line power meter to the dummy load, and also into a service monitor. All tests were done on 75 meters. Rich, n0ce P.S. Don mentioned low voltage, high current applications. Accidents can also weld firmly together in those situations. Planning good fuse placement is important. - Original Message - From: Don Wilhelm To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Despite the potential for voltage drop, I would not forget the fuse at the power supply end of the wire unless you are certain the power source has adequate overcurrent protection built in. The blade type fuses with tight fitting sockets will cause very little voltage drop. If the connection is not in the milliohm range, connection tightness is to blame. That fuse is not intended to protect the equipment connected, but is instead to protect the wire from a short circuit. Many power supplies do have adequate overcurrent protection - however --- I hear of instances where this was not in place when the power source is a battery. In the event of a short at the end of the power cable (or internal to the cable), a LOT of energy can be available which will have current sufficient to melt copper conductors of any size and spew molten metal all over the place - a personnel and a fire hazard. Low voltage high current power sources can be just as maiming as high voltage supplies. Please be safe! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Keep all hams healthy and free of injury in the coming New Year. 73, Don W3FPR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Gary wrote: A typical old style tuner will lose you around 5 watts or more. Perhaps, but there's no reason why a modern tuner is any more efficient. Any badly designed or improperly operated matching network (a.k.a tuner) can be very inefficient. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
One other thing I forgot to mention in my last post - when I change bands, I get the message GEX on the display of my K3. I can't find a reference to that message in my K3 owner's manual, Fred Cady's book, or the Elecraft web site. Can anyone shed any meaning on what that message means? I'm wondering if it might be pointing me toward solving my issue. Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Using a DVM or other self-contained voltmeter, measure the voltage at the power supply end of the cable during Rx and Tx. Is the voltage drop small (under 1/2 volt)? Measure the voltage at the radio end of the cable (using the same voltmeter) during Tx and Rx. Compare it to the K3 voltmeter. The difference between the two voltages should be almost constant, with perhaps a couple tenths of a volt greater difference when in Tx. Is the excessive voltage drop occuring across the cable? Might it be poorly or improperly mated Anderson power-pole connections? Or loose connections at the power supply? Are you using a power distribution box like a RigRunner? Is the drop occuring there? The most common cause of this sort of problem is the cabling -- including connectors -- between the power supply and the radio. 73, Lyle KK7P Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Wow. That will certainly explain the drop in RF power output. I would not suspect corroded pins on the KPA connectors since resistance there will limit the current the PA can draw and actually reduce the voltage drop. Are you looking at the voltage reported by the K3's display? If so, can you check the output of the power supply to confirm that it is not drooping under load. Next, I'd carefully inspect the power cable from the power supply to the K3 - especially the connectors. If your power supply has bolt-on terminals for the power cable, be sure they are tight (I've seen Astrons shake a nut loose through the low level vibration from the power transformer over a period of months when they weren't tightened properly in the first place). At the other end, is there any discoloration in the contacts in the powerpole connecter? Are the contacts fully inserted in the housing? Do you have anything else between the power supply and the K3 - power distribution box or in line fuses, etc? If so, they can introduce the resistance causing the voltage drop through a bad contact. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 7:18 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, With that much voltage drop, I would strongly recommend you look at your power supply and the power cable to the K3. First measure the drop while transmitting right at the power supply. If you have significant sag there, either your power supply is marginal or the output terminals at its output may not be tight (on most power supplies that means the inner nut is loose. Also make sure the cable is tightly clamped at the power supply end. At the K3 end, examine the APP connector. Look into the end and make sure the contact blade is fully latched over the spring finger. If the APP feels like it is not holding to the mating connector on the K3 with adequate pressure, then suspect incorrect assembly of one or the other of the APP connectors (check the APP mounted on the K3 too). The conductors in the power cable should be of an adequate size to carry the current. US wire gauge #12 conductors or larger should be used. That is what is supplied by Elecraft. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/24/2012 10:18 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, Google didn't find anything on the GEX error when I looked. I searched the Nabble archives and didn't find it there either. Elecraft support should have that answer. This is out of my pay grade but I would suspect the power supply rather than the radio. I say that because I don't see that drop on my K3 and you had the edge connector mod done. Do you have another power supply or 12 volt battery you could try or borrow one? God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn - Ham km4ik@gmail.com To: d...@w3fpr.com Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 9:32 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue One other thing I forgot to mention in my last post - when I change bands, I get the message GEX on the display of my K3. I can't find a reference to that message in my K3 owner's manual, Fred Cady's book, or the Elecraft web site. Can anyone shed any meaning on what that message means? I'm wondering if it might be pointing me toward solving my issue. Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas. --Ian __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Don/all, It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 10:46 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Ian, With that much voltage drop, I would strongly recommend you look at your power supply and the power cable to the K3. First measure the drop while transmitting right at the power supply. If you have significant sag there, either your power supply is marginal or the output terminals at its output may not be tight (on most power supplies that means the inner nut is loose. Also make sure the cable is tightly clamped at the power supply end. At the K3 end, examine the APP connector. Look into the end and make sure the contact blade is fully latched over the spring finger. If the APP feels like it is not holding to the mating connector on the K3 with adequate pressure, then suspect incorrect assembly of one or the other of the APP connectors (check the APP mounted on the K3 too). The conductors in the power cable should be of an adequate size to carry the current. US wire gauge #12 conductors or larger should be used. That is what is supplied by Elecraft. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/24/2012 10:18 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
I'd check the accuracy of the meter, with nearly 20A being drawn on TX, I'd expect 100W out of the rig... Best regards, Tim Hague Skype m0afj.Tim Sent on my iPad On 24 Dec 2012, at 16:51, Ian Kahn - Ham km4ik@gmail.com wrote: Don/all, It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 10:46 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Ian, With that much voltage drop, I would strongly recommend you look at your power supply and the power cable to the K3. First measure the drop while transmitting right at the power supply. If you have significant sag there, either your power supply is marginal or the output terminals at its output may not be tight (on most power supplies that means the inner nut is loose. Also make sure the cable is tightly clamped at the power supply end. At the K3 end, examine the APP connector. Look into the end and make sure the contact blade is fully latched over the spring finger. If the APP feels like it is not holding to the mating connector on the K3 with adequate pressure, then suspect incorrect assembly of one or the other of the APP connectors (check the APP mounted on the K3 too). The conductors in the power cable should be of an adequate size to carry the current. US wire gauge #12 conductors or larger should be used. That is what is supplied by Elecraft. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/24/2012 10:18 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/23/2012 5:07 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, Any chance of borrowing another wattmeter for a sanity check on your external meter? It sounds like your external meter may be reading quite low. 19.8 amps on TX would indicate 100 watts or greater output. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/24/2012 11:51 AM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: Don/all, It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks, 73, es Merry Christmas. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
The first rule in troubleshooting is to unplug everything that isn't absolutely necessary to the equipment being diagnosed. In this case all that would be needed is power, ant/dummy load and the K3. Then start plugging things in until you find the offending device. 73 de Brian/K3KO Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Bet it's the Power Pole connectors, meaning the installation of the connectors. But if it is the RigRunner, West Mountain will take care of it. Glad you isolated the problem! On Dec 24, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham km4ik@gmail.com wrote: So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Bad regulated power supply. I use a MANSON EP-925 (also known with other brand names). This handles 25 amps easy with just a few 0.1 of voltage drop. After some successful mods it is stable within 0.05 V RX/TX 100 Watt at 13.80 Volt. (If interested see my mods at http://pa0fri.home.xs4all.nl/Diversen/EP925/ep925eng.htm) Merry X-mass and a happy new year to you all. Twan - PA0KV K3 -1770 Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2012 10:18:27 -0500 From: Ian Kahn - Hamkm4ik@gmail.com To:elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Message-ID:50d87243.5030...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Update on my low output issue: I ran the TX Gain Calibration this morning, and everything passed with flying colors. I am seeing about a 4-4.5V drop across the radio when going from rx to tx. Rx voltage sits at 13.8V, but when I transmit, voltage across the rig drops to between 9 and 9.5V. All tests performed while tuned into a 300W dummy load. Before I tear into my rig and start looking for corroded tin pins on the PA board (K3 #281, so unlikely the board was replaced/mod performed), is there anything else I should test while my station is still all together in one piece? Thanks to everyone for the assistance, and Merry Christmas! 73, --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Forgot to mention, absolutely run the calibration again with the correct 13.8V supply. Then address the power output - if it still exists. On Dec 24, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham km4ik@gmail.com wrote: So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
I don't get this. How is the rig runner implicated? The power doesn't go thru it...DC or RF. So are you saying the drive was insufficient? And if so, how is that not easy to diagnose? Sent from my iPad Chuck, KE9UW (Jack for BMW motorcycles) On Dec 24, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Jack Berry we...@yahoo.com wrote: Bet it's the Power Pole connectors, meaning the installation of the connectors. But if it is the RigRunner, West Mountain will take care of it. Glad you isolated the problem! On Dec 24, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham km4ik@gmail.com wrote: So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
I don't get this. How is the rig runner implicated? The power doesn't go thru it...DC or RF. Of course it does- the Rig Runner is a DC power distribution panel. -Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Oh sorry, I see that. I was thinking of those digital interface boxes. Sent from my iPhone Chuck (Jack) On Dec 24, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Bruce Beford bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.net wrote: I don't get this. How is the rig runner implicated? The power doesn't go thru it...DC or RF. Of course it does- the Rig Runner is a DC power distribution panel. -Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, I would suggest before suspecting anything in between the power supply, check the voltage and the power supply terminals before tearing into anything. You already know the transceiver shows load voltage under load. If the voltage drops low at the supply then you have the culprit. If not, then go to the next connection and then measure it while transmitting. I had a voltage drop that I didn't like with the supplied power supply cable and replaced it with a 10 gauge high quality stranded cable. I took out my ASTRO Flight current/voltage wattage monitor which had lighter wiring, I ran my radio connection to my RigRunner and then measured. Voltage and output much improved. You could start from the rear of the radio, work toward the power supply, but you at least eliminate it. I do see a wiring/connector voltage drop at 20 amps draw from 13.5 volts through my PowerGate battery backup to the RigRunner which shows a voltage on the Astro Flight, which I use to monitor voltage coming off the rig runner itself, of ~12 v. I get CW output at the K3 of 100 watts out as monitored by the W2. It also wouldn't hurt to disconnect reconnect all the Andersons if that is what you are using. Corrosion potential exists for non-soldered connections especially in humid conditions. 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:52 PM To: Lyle Johnson Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, As a bottom up reader, I see you have plenty of advice already. I would also like to point out in addition to what I posted below, I had an extra set of fuses and a Red-Dee connect 45 amp distributor in line with the battery backup/power supply and this alone added 1.5v drop. With those two items out of line, I now see the ~ 12v to my radio and I get out the full 100 watts from the radio under load. Those two items added an additional 4 connections or 16 surfaces. If I wanted almost zero drop, I would take out the RigRunner and put power directly to the radio. This would drop it further. 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 5:26 PM To: 'Ian Kahn - Ham' Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Ian, I would suggest before suspecting anything in between the power supply, check the voltage and the power supply terminals before tearing into anything. You already know the transceiver shows load voltage under load. If the voltage drops low at the supply then you have the culprit. If not, then go to the next connection and then measure it while transmitting. I had a voltage drop that I didn't like with the supplied power supply cable and replaced it with a 10 gauge high quality stranded cable. I took out my ASTRO Flight current/voltage wattage monitor which had lighter wiring, I ran my radio connection to my RigRunner and then measured. Voltage and output much improved. You could start from the rear of the radio, work toward the power supply, but you at least eliminate it. I do see a wiring/connector voltage drop at 20 amps draw from 13.5 volts through my PowerGate battery backup to the RigRunner which shows a voltage on the Astro Flight, which I use to monitor voltage coming off the rig runner itself, of ~12 v. I get CW output at the K3 of 100 watts out as monitored by the W2. It also wouldn't hurt to disconnect reconnect all the Andersons if that is what you are using. Corrosion potential exists for non-soldered connections especially in humid conditions. 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Monday, December 24, 2012 12:52 PM To: Lyle Johnson Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue So, it looks like I tracked down my low output issue. The problem appears to be with my West Mountain RigRunner, not my K3. A big thank you to all who offered guidance on getting this thing tested and troubleshot. Thank you, 73, es Merry Christmas! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/24/2012 12:22 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Might not be a 30W drop, but a matter of calibrations of both the internal wattmeter (there is a menu item to adjust it) and the external wattmeter. If the output power is set to 100W and the internal wattmeter is reporting 100W, then the K3 is happy. If in fact the output power is only 70 W (double check if the ATU is bypassed or in line, antenna wiring and chassis connections are tight int he k3 etc), then the K3 wattmeter may need to be calibrated. If that is the case, you need to go to the menu and adjust it. But only do this if you are CERTAIN your external wattmeter is in fact accurate. Once you are certain the K3 wattmeter is reporting within spec, re-run the Tx calibration. BTW I think a 2V drop is still excessive. Might be long runs or light gauge wire or ? But that is a separate issue from the wattmeter accuracy. 73, Lyle KK7P It is highly possible the culprit is my RigRunner, purchased in March of this year. When I took it out of line, the voltage drop went from over 4V on tx to under 2V (13.8V down to about 12V). Current draw is .78 to .82 amps on rx and 19.8 amps on tx. However, while the internal power meter shows 100W, an external meter into a dummy load only shows 70 watts out. The current and voltage readings look normal, according to Rev. D10 of the owner's manual. But I'm still concerned about a 30W drop at the output. Anyone have any other suggestions? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Despite the potential for voltage drop, I would not forget the fuse at the power supply end of the wire unless you are certain the power source has adequate overcurrent protection built in. The blade type fuses with tight fitting sockets will cause very little voltage drop. If the connection is not in the milliohm range, connection tightness is to blame. That fuse is not intended to protect the equipment connected, but is instead to protect the wire from a short circuit. Many power supplies do have adequate overcurrent protection - however --- I hear of instances where this was not in place when the power source is a battery. In the event of a short at the end of the power cable (or internal to the cable), a LOT of energy can be available which will have current sufficient to melt copper conductors of any size and spew molten metal all over the place - a personnel and a fire hazard. Low voltage high current power sources can be just as maiming as high voltage supplies. Please be safe! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Keep all hams healthy and free of injury in the coming New Year. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/24/2012 7:21 PM, Bill K9YEQ wrote: Ian, As a bottom up reader, I see you have plenty of advice already. I would also like to point out in addition to what I posted below, I had an extra set of fuses and a Red-Dee connect 45 amp distributor in line with the battery backup/power supply and this alone added 1.5v drop. With those two items out of line, I now see the ~ 12v to my radio and I get out the full 100 watts from the radio under load. Those two items added an additional 4 connections or 16 surfaces. If I wanted almost zero drop, I would take out the RigRunner and put power directly to the radio. This would drop it further. 73, Bill __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, Does the rig voltage sage when transmitting? 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:51 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Ron, With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a 300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my problem, if not in the transceiver itself? 40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point. The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to fix the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If there are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to suggestions. Thank you. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
That should be sag . 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:32 AM To: 'Ian Kahn - Ham'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Ian, Does the rig voltage sage when transmitting? 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 7:51 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Ron, With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a 300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my problem, if not in the transceiver itself? 40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point. The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to fix the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If there are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to suggestions. Thank you. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Several people suggested I run the Calibrate transmitter gain on my rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration that hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what frquency/portion of the band I'm in on each band when I run the calibration test? Or do I just need to be somewhere in-band on each band? Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have been suggested which I'll check. 73 and Merry Christmas to all! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
The utility takes care of all that for you. Just click watch. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn - Ham km4ik@gmail.com To: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz Cc: 'Jack Berry' we...@yahoo.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Several people suggested I run the Calibrate transmitter gain on my rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration that hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what frquency/portion of the band I'm in on each band when I run the calibration test? Or do I just need to be somewhere in-band on each band? Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have been suggested which I'll check. 73 and Merry Christmas to all! --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ian, If you use K3 Utility to do that calibration, if there is a need to set a specific frequency, I am certain the Utility does it for you. 73 Happy Holidays to all (Merry Christmas for those of us who celebrate it), Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 4:28 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: Several people suggested I run the Calibrate transmitter gain on my rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration that hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what frquency/portion of the band I'm in on each band when I run the calibration test? Or do I just need to be somewhere in-band on each band? Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have been suggested which I'll check. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] on behalf of Don Wilhelm [w3...@embarqmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 3:51 PM To: Ian Kahn - Ham Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Ian, If you use K3 Utility to do that calibration, if there is a need to set a specific frequency, I am certain the Utility does it for you. 73 Happy Holidays to all (Merry Christmas for those of us who celebrate it), Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 4:28 PM, Ian Kahn - Ham wrote: Several people suggested I run the Calibrate transmitter gain on my rig, which I'll do. But I have one question about the calibration that hopefully someone here can answer - does it matter what frquency/portion of the band I'm in on each band when I run the calibration test? Or do I just need to be somewhere in-band on each band? Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and assistance. If my rig passes this calibration test, there are a few other things that have been suggested which I'll check. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Chuck, It could - defer decisions on that until after doing the TX Gain Calibration. 73, Don W3FPR On 12/23/2012 5:01 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: Could it be/affect a 40% difference? Chuck, KE9UW Lionel Trains, TCA, LCCA, LRRC aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles BMWMOA #224 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Ron, With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a 300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my problem, if not in the transceiver itself? 40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point. The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to fix the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If there are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to suggestions. Thank you. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue
Certainly Ian. I would troubleshoot that sort of loss too. I only noted that it was not likely the cause of the reports you were getting of a low signals strength that you got from others. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ian Kahn - Ham Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 5:51 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue Ron, With all due respect, this 40-watt power loss is noted in a watt meter connected directly to the ANT1 output on my K3, and then directly to a 300-watt dummy load. There is nothing else in between to cause a power drop. Where else would you recommend I look for the source of my problem, if not in the transceiver itself? 40 watts may only be about 1/3 of an S-unit, but that isn't the point. The point is that my rig is not performing as it should. I would like to fix the issue, in the most cost- and time-effective manner possible. If there are tests I can run to help isolate the problem, I'm open to suggestions. Thank you. --Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team On 12/22/2012 6:13 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And you'll likely find the cause of your low signal strength is somewhere else, since 60 watts is only 2 dB - about 1/3 of an S-unit - below 100 watts. That difference is not usually detectable on HF given normal variations in propagation that go on constantly. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Have you run Calibrate Transmitter Gain using the K3 Utility from Elecraft? Just follow the instructions carefully and it's very simple and fast. There are two levels to run, 5 and 50 watts if I remember correctly. You will get a report at the end and can watch the progress on you K3 display. God Bless 73! Jack - WE5ST From: Ian Kahn km4ik@gmail.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: [Elecraft] New Output Power Issue All, Lately I've been receiving sporadic reports of low signal strength on my K3, s/n 288. So, today I put a meter on it and ran an FSK signal at 100 watts into a dummy load. To my amazing surprise, the meter only read about 60 watts out. I just upgraded last night to the latest firmware version (MCU 4.60, FPF 1.15, DSP 2.80), What should I begin looking at or adjusting to find the source of this issue? Any and all assistance is greatly appreciated. Thanks, 73, and Merry Christmas. -- Ian Ian Kahn, KM4IK Roswell, GA EM74ua km4ik@gmail.com K3 #281, P3 #688 HRD v5.x/6.0 Test Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
