Unsubscribe?
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Guys, I am going into hospital for a few months and therefore would like to stop receiving messages from the forum during this time. I will of course re-subscribe when I am back at work. I sent an unsubscribe but I am still getting messages from the emc-pstc forum? See the attached unsubscribe email I sent and a message I received after unsubscribing? Note: I had an old email address that was changed to a new email address. Please ensure this is not the problemTHANKS! old: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com new: alex.mcn...@ingenico.co.uk ps. you guys are greatly appreciated by me and I am sure many others. Thank You and Best Regards Alex This email has been scanned for all known viruses and appropriate content by the Messagelabs mail service. ---BeginMessage--- This attachment, originally named Message Text, was removed because it is zero length. ---End Message--- ---BeginMessage--- All, There will be a sequential joint Northeast Product Safety Society and IEEE EMC Society meeting on Wednesday, June 22nd, at EMC Corporation's Conference Room 1-2 (Building A, 1st floor) at 228 South Street in Hopkinton, MA. A social hour with light refreshments will begin at 6:00 PM and the technical meeting will start at 6:30 PM. Dr. David P. Johns, VP of Flomerics, will be presenting an EMC related topic concerning early recognition of EMC design problems with examples of electromagnetic simulation applied to real-world EMC design problem. Ms. Anne Doherty Johnson, Executive Director of AeA, will be presenting a Product Safety related topic concerning the impact on technology producers to implement European WEEE and RoHS compliance. If you will be in the area, please feel free to join us as NPSS membership or advanced notice is not required. In the past, EMC/EMI design has been far from an exact science. EMC Engineers have not been able to say, Do it like this and it will work. Instead, by drawing on past experience and applying general design guidelines, Engineers have said, Do it like this and it may work, or, This is more likely to work, but at a higher cost. To make matters worse, EMC design is a constantly moving target. The electromagnetic environment is flooding, due to the proliferation of wireless communications devices. Electronics products are emitting higher frequencies due to faster switching and circuits are becoming more sensitive to interference. Design techniques that worked in the past may not work in the future. Considerable guesswork is involved. There is a growing desire for EMC Engineers to identify problems earlier in design, to be more definite and accurate in their recommendations and to minimize the test, fix, re-test cycle, enabling products to pass compliance and enter the market quicker. Electromagnetic simulation tools have matured considerably over the last 5 years and offer tremendous opportunity for EMC Engineers to work more effectively and with greater confidence. This talk will provide examples of electromagnetic simulation applied to real-world EMC design problems, emphasizing the value that simulation offers over and above general design rules. Dr. David Johns is the VP of Electromagnetic Engineering at Flomerics, Inc. He received his Ph.D. from Nottingham University UK in 1996, specializing in the development of 3D Transmission-Line Matrix (TLM) tools for analysis of EMC problems. At Flomerics, he is responsible for technical application and support of the FLO/EMC simulation tool. He has extensive experience in applying electromagnetic analysis to diagnosing and solving EMC/EMI design problems. Ms. Anne Doherty Johnson, Executive Director for AeA's New England Region will update the group AeA's efforts to help technology companies prepare for these product stewardship changes. AeA has continued to advance a major education initiative on this topic over the last two and half years. This effort has focused on helping companies better understand what steps need to be taken to be prepared for these regulations, both internally and with suppliers and partners. She will also speak a bit about AeA's role in the technology industry. Impending implementation of European Union Waste Directives, namely WEEE and RoHS, coming into effect in 2005 and 2006, will have a major impact on technology producers and require additional regulatory compliance measures and potentially product design changes. In addition to EU's environmental policy changes, various U.S. states have filed measures that include chemical bans or would require design changes. AeA is tracking these regulations and proposed US legislation. Ms. Anne Doherty Johnson serves as Executive Director, New England Council, for the American Electronics Association (AeA), the nation�s oldest and largest
Product vs Battery Approvals
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Hi Guys, We are in the process of changing the types of 7.2V battery packs in our already fully approved products from Ni_mH to Li_Ion. Are there any approvals issues that may need to be re-considered e.g. EMC, Safety, battery approval reqts. or? As always I look forward to your expert opinions. Kind Regards Alex McNeil This email has been scanned for all known viruses and appropriate content by the Messagelabs mail service. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
US Modem Safety
Hi Colleagues, I intend to use an overcurrent protection device, the Raychem polyswitch TS250-130, on an analogue modem interface for Europe and the US. I know this should be OK for Europe but is the 250V rating (ITU lightning protection to 1.5KV) OK for the US? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer This email has been scanned for all known viruses and appropriate content by the Messagelabs mail service. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
North American Automotive EMC
Hi Forum, Does the North American market require Automotive EMC similar to the European Automotive Directive? I am thinking about an ITE small product that meets the European Automotive Directive being sold in the USA/Canada. It already has the FCC Part 15 EMC Class A. Also, will using the same cigarette lighter cable be OK? I look forward, as always, to your kind and helpful replies. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer This email has been scanned for all known viruses and appropriate content by the Messagelabs mail service. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: CISPR22 applicability for ITE
Hi Forum, Thanks for the comprehensive replies to my query on the above subject. I for one truly appreciate the expertise of this forum and the time taken out by members to help out even though they will no doubt be extremely busy people (as most Compliance people are!!). Special mention to Ghery Pettit, Kristiaan Carpentier and Andy White...thanks! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer From: Alex McNeil Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:22 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: CISPR22 applicability for ITE Hi Guys, Q1: Is it true that USA and Canada accept CISPR22:1997/A1:2000 instead of FCC Part 15 and ICES-003? and only if tested per ANSI C63-4:2002 methods? Q2: Is it true that Australia now accepts EN55022:1998 or CISPR22:1997+A1:2000 and/or CISPR22:2003 4th Edition? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer This email has been scanned for all known viruses and appropriate content by the Messagelabs mail service. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
CISPR22 applicability for ITE
Hi Guys, Q1: Is it true that USA and Canada accept CISPR22:1997/A1:2000 instead of FCC Part 15 and ICES-003? and only if tested per ANSI C63-4:2002 methods? Q2: Is it true that Australia now accepts EN55022:1998 or CISPR22:1997+A1:2000 and/or CISPR22:2003 4th Edition? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer This email has been scanned for all known viruses and appropriate content by the Messagelabs mail service. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
PSTN + Signal Cable
Hi Colleagues, Does anyone foresee a problem if I route the PSTN and Signal wires within the same cable? I am thinking of a particular application where the above scenario would fit well in my design. I ensure that the 1.6mm (and 2.0mm for re-inforced insulation) spacing requirement is met on the PCB connector and PCB tracking. The only problem I see is the cable insulation does not meet the 0.4mm thru insulation requirement but the manufacturer will test the cable for 1500Vrms dielectric strength between the PSTN wires and the Signal wires, 100% of production and produce a CoC. Or must I specify that the wire insulation meet the 0.4mm thru insulation requirement? Thanks in advance of your replies. Kind Regards Alex McNeil This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
ITE Approvals Matrix (for small low power products)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Group, May I first of all thank all of you who contributed to my query. As always I got a very comprehensive response from obviously a very experienced and talented bunch. I have also contributed more information through other sources. I have to admit that I did not realise the complexity of getting, what looks like a simple ITE product, Approved for worldwide useage. I have attached the Matrix, duly modified. There are still a few oustanding items and it is never too late for someone to try and provide more information. I feel this document will require several modifications, including a back-up text to further explain the applicable standards dates, before it is considered complete but lets see what transpires. If you have any disagreements with the updated Matrix, please feel free to contact me. Eventually, I am sure the Matrix will help many members of this group. Further Questions 1. It seems it would be better to have the products tested against CISPR22 Class B as this would cover all the countries, particularly the ones listed on this Matrix, one stop test and fee (Countries are Self Declaration or Verification)? 2. Similarly, it would seem that it would be better to have the products tested against IEC60950 with the Country deviations and obtain a CB Report, as this would cover all the countries, particularly the ones listed on this Matrix, one stop test and fee! For USA/Canada I could use this CB Report to help gain UL/CSA 60950? 3. No Ethernet nor USB standards to meet (Regulatory or non-Regulatory)? Notes: I decided to leave out the various dates from the Matrix so that I could simplify it for my Quality Group (I will have the information and it will be myself who will need to get the Approvals actioned anyhow!). Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com Title: ITE Approvals Matrix (for small low power products) Hi Group, May I first of all thank all of you who contributed to my query. As always I got a very comprehensive response from obviously a very experienced and talented bunch. I have also contributed more information through other sources. I have to admit that I did not realise the complexity of getting, what looks like a simple ITE product, Approved for worldwide useage. I have attached the Matrix, duly modified. There are still a few oustanding items and it is never too late for someone to try and provide more information. I feel this document will require several modifications, including a back-up text to further explain the applicable standards dates, before it is considered complete but lets see what transpires. If you have any disagreements with the updated Matrix, please feel free to contact me. Eventually, I am sure the Matrix will help many members of this group. Further Questions 1. It seems it would be better to have the products tested against CISPR22 Class B as this would cover all the countries, particularly the ones listed on this Matrix, one stop test and fee (Countries are Self Declaration or Verification)? 2. Similarly, it would seem that it would be better to have the products tested against IEC60950 with the Country deviations and obtain a CB Report, as this would cover all the countries, particularly the ones listed on this Matrix, one stop test and fee! For USA/Canada I could use this CB Report to help gain UL/CSA 60950? 3. No Ethernet nor USB standards to meet (Regulatory or non-Regulatory)? Notes: I decided to leave out the various dates from the Matrix so that I could simplify it for my Quality Group (I will have the information and it will be myself who will need to get the Approvals actioned anyhow!). Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com Approvals Matrix_100903.xls Description: Binary data
Approvals Matrix
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Hi Group, I have started an Approvals matrix for Europe, North America and Australasia for typical low power ITE office products. I would be extremely grateful if those experts amongst you could comment on the validity and indeed add to it. Thanks in anticipation of your usual response. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Title: Approvals Matrix Hi Group, I have started an Approvals matrix for Europe, North America and Australasia for typical low power ITE office products. I would be extremely grateful if those experts amongst you could comment on the validity and indeed add to it. Thanks in anticipation of your usual response. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Approval Synthesis w336.xls Description: Binary data
CDMA Product Approvals
Hi Group, This is a technology I know nothing about (never heard off!) until my marketing friends emailed me the approvals question! What are the approval requirements for a product that employs a wireless CDMA module. I think I may be asking too much for worldwide standards (although it would be very much appreciated), Europe? N.America? I have also heard I need EIRP measurements? Thanks in advance for your expert help. Kind Regards Alex McNeil This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
SAR test applicability, standards?
Hi Forum, I would very much appreciate help and advice from this forum with regards to the applicability of SAR, or RF evaluation, certification requirements for products that can either be handheld or placed on a sales counter e.g. Point of Sale terminals that are used for financial transactions via credit and smart cards. These products may contain Bluetooth (2.45GHz ISM band) or GSM (900/1800MHz)technology. Advice for worldwide usage would be ideal but Europe and N. America would suffice for now. Information I have so far is that it depends on how far away from the body the product is normally and the power level of the RF signal? I do not know at this time what standards would apply? I look forward to your kind replies. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Modems and CE
Hi Dave, For the EU there is no modem Standards requirement, although it is normal for the analogue modem to be tested to TBR21 (CTR21) and some EU country deviations. The CE mark will indicate compliance to EMC and Safety. You should have the DoC to the RTTE from the maunufacturer, which suffices. Note: You should determine from the manufacturer what the modem was tested against and whether it also covered all the EU country deviations. Kind Regards ALEX From: da...@alisonlabs.com [mailto:da...@alisonlabs.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 9:05 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Modems and CE Hello all, We are currently designing into a product here that is using someone else's CE certified modem. We will be using the modem according to the manufacturers specifications with regard to power supply etc. The question that I have is: Do we have to have any other certification from the telcos to be able to connect this device to their networks or is conformance to the RTTE directive enough? Cheers ... Dave Grant This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Field Trials CE Mark responsibility
Hi Group, If a distributor and/or customer states that they are willing to take the responsibility of placing pre-CE Mark products in a real application so that they can carry out a field trial: 1. In this scenario, who is ultimately responsible for placing the non CE Mark products in the field i.e. the Manufacturer or the Distributor/customer? 2. Is there any way a manufacturer, along with the co-operation of the distributor/customer, can do a real application field trial prior to CE Mark testing? 3. Is this scenario covered in the Directives? Thanks in advance for you coments and I apologise if this has been covered before. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Transverse Balance Limitations 68.310_On Hook
Hi All, Thanks to all who responded to my query. I will inform you of my findings as soon as I have a solution. Kind Regards ALEX From: Alex McNeil Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 10:09 AM To: 't...@world.std.com' Subject: Transverse Balance Limitations 68.310_On Hook Hi Group, Can you help here. I pass the above FCC Part 68 specification when my product uses a Linear Power Supply but fail when I use my alternate Switch Mode Power Supply. Why should this be? Kind Regards Alex This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
The e Marking requirements
Hi Colleagues, What are the marking requirements for a product (an ESA) that has met the Automotive Directive, 95/54/EC, to be fitted in a vehicle? I always thought that all that was required was the e mark. However, our colleagues in Germany have came across several products that are marked similar to what I have attached here: example for the e- number : e1 020148 (e1--- number of the country, 1=germany ; 02--- revision of the EU-confirmation 95/54/EU ; 0148 permit number Is this type of marking required? Is it different per European Country i.e. if it is 1 for Germany what are the numbers for all the other countries? Has anyone got good information? I look forward to your kind replies. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Multiplex TTE Product Approvals
Hi Group, I thought I was handling this RTTE standards applicability quite well until the latest proposed product specification for Europe, Australia and N.America (I have to fill in the blank approvals stuff myself) landed on my desk. It has placed me in a state of uncertainty...am I covering all Approvals issues I am seeking members advice on what standards I should be seeking. As you can see I have attempted this myself but is it correct and blanks need to be filled in? I would appreciate replies from those members even though they may be only familiar with a particular continent. EMC, General EU: EN55022 Class B, EN55024, Automotive Directive 95/94/EC (to allow vehicle use) USA: FCC Part 15 (or ICES-003 or CISPR22) Canada: ICES-003 (or FCC Part 15 or CISPR22) Australia: EN55022 Safety, General EU: EN60950-1:2001 NAmerica: ULC60950:2000 Australia: IEC60950-1:2001 CB Certificate Dual Band GSM/GPRS 900-1800MHZ and/or 850-1900MHz modules, requirements: GSM(11.10): ETS 300 607-1 NAmerica? Australia? RF EU: EN 301 489-1, EN 301 489-7 NAmerica RF? Australia RF? EMC: EN 301 419-1 NAmerica EMC? Australia EMC? SAR (EU): ES 59005:1998 per ICNIRP guidelines SAR (NA): ANSI C95.1:1992 SAR (AUS): AS/NZ 2772.1 Bluetooth module (100m) Bluetooth RF EU: EN300 328 Bluetooth RF USA: FCC Part 15 Bluetooth RF Canada: IC GL36 Bluetooth RF Australia: ?? EMC EU: ETS300 826, EN301-489-1 and EN301 489-3 EMC NAmerica? EMC Australia? Analogue Modem EU: TBR21 (guideline only not mandatory) USA: TIA/EIA/IS-968 (or CS-03) Canada: CS-03 (or TIA/EIA/IS-968) Australia: TS002 Laser Bar Code scanner module (IEC Class 2) Safety EU:EN60825-2 NAmerica:CDRH 1040 Australia?? Touchscreen Part of above Safety Standards, no special requirements? CDMA Interface No special requirements LAN802.11b Interface No special requirements WAN Interface No special requirements Again, I would appreciate any feedback. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Administrative message: allegations of non-compliance
Hi Rich, As you said we do not want to continue this thread but as a final word I feel I must state that I totally agree with your email. Thanks for all your efforts to date, I am sure they are well appreciated by the forum. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [mailto:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 4:40 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: jim.bac...@paxar.com; davehe...@attbi.com; emc-p...@hypercom.com Subject:Administrative message: allegations of non-compliance The recent string with the subject OK, what's going on? alleges that a named manufacturer's product does not comply with a requirement. We feel that, in the case of a negative or derogatory comment or allegation (in this case non-compliance), the manufacturer (or individual) should NOT be named. We take this from the good manners adage, If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Similarly, we feel that our subscribers should not publicly announce (read threaten) in this forum that they intend to turn in non-compliance to regulatory authorities. Rather, we suggest that any alleged non-compliance matters should first be brought to the attention of the manufacturer -- privately. We're all friends in this group. We help each other with various technical problems. Non-compliance is a technical problem for which there are several solutions, fix the product, fix the standard, or fix the measurement. In arriving at a solution, please don't denigrate a colleague or a manufacturer (or anyone else, for that matter!). If you want to discuss this matter further, please do so off-line. Best regards, Richard Nute Co-administrator, IEEE emc-pstc listserver. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
EN61000-4-3 Radiated Immnuity Product Monitoring
Hi Forum, I have a EN61000-4-3 compliance test set up in a Chamber. Some of our products have LCD displays 2cm X 8cm. My problem is I bought a Teseo RF proofed camera that cannot zoom in on the display at a distance of 2m (from the corner of the chamber). I can obviously see the display if I place the camera next to the product. However, it seems that the camera must be positioned outwith the 1.5Msq calibrated field area? I heard that there are fibre optic probes that can be positioned at the display and fed back into the camera lense via an adaptor? Has anyone heard of this method? Has anyone any idea of overcoming my problem without the need to purchase a £5K camera? How near am I allowed to place the camera? Thanks in advance for your kind comments. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
FW: PSTN... end of line Production tests
Hi Forum, I have had one kind gentleman offer his advice on this topic. I would be very grateful if a few other knowledgable people could offer a comment. I will summarize the comments for those who answer me direct. Sorry to have troubled you again. Previously, production assembly line testing on analogue modems (to be connected to the Public Switched Telecommunications Network, PSTN) critical parameters were a must to meet the Approvals bodies requirement i.e. before you could attach the Notified Bodies Approvals label e.g. BABT in the UK. Q1. Since deregulation i.e. introduction of the RTTED I would assume that this is no longer required? Q2. I would probably still do a few audit tests for the Dielectric Withstand (Safety) and PSTN (TBR21) parameters per a batch of products. Do you agree this would suffice? Q3. What about TIA/EIA/IS-968 (FCC Part 68) and CS-03 (Canada), are assembly line tests required? Q4. Any country require assembly line tests for analogue modems PSTN? Thanks in advance for all comments! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:06 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org mailto:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:PSTN... end of line Production tests Hi All, Previously, end of line testing on PSTN critical parameters were a must to meet the Approvals bodies requirement i.e. before you could attach the BABT Approvals (UK) label. Q1. Since deregulation i.e. introduction of the RTTED I would assume that this is no longer required? Q2. I would still do the Dielectric Withstand test for safety and a few audit PSTN (TBR21) tests per a batch of products. Any comments? Q3. What about TIA/EIA/IS-968 and CS-03, are end of line tests required? Q4. Any country require end of line tests for PSTN? Thanks in advance for all comments received. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
PSTN... end of line Production tests
Hi All, Previously, end of line testing on PSTN critical parameters were a must to meet the Approvals bodies requirement i.e. before you could attach the BABT Approvals (UK) label. Q1. Since deregulation i.e. introduction of the RTTED I would assume that this is no longer required? Q2. I would still do the Dielectric Withstand test for safety and a few audit PSTN (TBR21) tests per a batch of products. Any comments? Q3. What about TIA/EIA/IS-968 and CS-03, are end of line tests required? Q4. Any country require end of line tests for PSTN? Thanks in advance for all comments received. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Ethernet Creepage and Clearance
Hi Forum, Are there any ethernet and PCB safety requirements, ie are there rules like those for the modem side of things (isolation in particular) or is the transformer sufficient? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
I2C bus sensitivity to EFT
Hi Forum, Has anyone on this forum worked with I2C products and maybe be able to advise on the best method to suppress EFT noise that would alow the I2C bus, via external cables, to operate as expected e.g. Good EFT devices? How best to shield the I2C? Other? As always I look forward to your proffesional advice. History I have a system that connects 3 products (powered from an in-line external non-earthed power supply, SELV) using the I2C bus via a 1m shielded and 1m shielded curly cable. I use an I2C bi-directional extender IC P82B715 on one of the products. The I2C protocol gets corrupted when I appply the Electrical Fast Transient (EFT) Test per the EMC Standard EN61000-4-4. I have tried shielded cables, several EFT devices and 1nF caps on the lines but with little affect. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EN61000-3-2/-3 for low power ITE products
Hi Forum, I hate to bring these standards to the fore again, but I just need a little clarification. I have small ITE products supplied by an externally approved power brick. They may be linear or switch mode types. He gets the power supply tested to EN61000-3-2 only if the AC input power exceeds 75W (e.g. 230V/0.4A). He does not get them tested to EN61000-3-3 as he feels it does not apply. I think the following statement is correct? EN61000-3-2: Class D 75W until 01/01/04 EN61000-3-2: Class A 75W optional today and regulatory from 01/01/04 Flicker EN61000-3-3: optional but regulatory from 01/05/04 I have 2 questions: Q1. Is the power manufacturer correct? Q2. My products always pass the EN61000-3-2 by a large margin and wonder if I am wasting money on testing. I was thinking of self declaring based on previous similar product results and the power supply maunfacturer's DoC. Once again I look forward to your expert guidance. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
ESD Testing Method
Hi Guys, 1. For double insulated products (non-earthed) is it correct to state that the ESD test point, for Contact Discharge (CD) tests, should be discharged prior to applying the next discharge (I am sure I read this somewhere, but)? 2. As a follow on from the first question, I have a product that will pass +8KV Contact Discharge (CD) in +2KV steps. It will also pass -8KV CD in -2KV steps. However, if I test +XKV (50 zaps) followed by -XKV (1 zap) it will fail. What is the correct procedure as the standard does not say if +CD should follow -CD or vice versa or step up with the same polarity? In my opinion it would be unlikely in a particular customer environment that the +XKV would be quickly followed by a -XKV (or vice versa). I look forward, as per usual, to your kind and expert responses. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Argentina Approvals
Hi Forum, Could some kind member inform me what the latest EMC and Safety requirements are for Argentina? The main query being will the CE mark requirements of EN60950 (Safety) and EN55022/EN55024 (EMC) suffice? The last I heard was that the IRAM S mark was required, if so how can this be obtained? Also PSTN? My products are small Point of Sale Terminals. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax:+44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Automotive EMC for household/commercial products
Hi Nick, I originally posted this question under the Title 95/54/EC Automotive Directive Conflict. It is archived under October 2002. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Nick Williams [mailto:nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:32 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:Automotive EMC for household/commercial products A short while ago someone posted some interesting questions about the Automotive EMC directive which alluded to a difference of opinion between the UK and French interpretations of the directives as regards household/commercial products being used temporarily in a vehicle. This has suddenly become very relevant to something I'm doing. I've tried finding the correspondence in the archive but without success. I would be very grateful if the original poster would get in touch, or someone would tell me the thread title so that I can find the correspondence in the archive for myself. Thanks Nick. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: 95/54/EC Automotive Directive Conflict
Hi Guys, I had to many email responses to thank you all individually! The result was some misunderstanding and lack off full details when applying to the vehicle authority to make a decision on whether our product was applicable to this Directive. However, another matter cropped up. How to test!! The POS terminal consists of a Top Unit which houses the GSM/GPRS and main electronics. This top sits on a charging base, normally via a AC/DC power supply to commercial mains supply but in the case for vehicles it will use the Cigarette lighter holder or hard wired into the vehicle voltage system It has been agreed that this terminal should be tested in it's standby mode of operation i.e. sitting on it's charging base, but not during a transaction. A transaction would only be done i.e. connection to the GSM network, when the vehicle e.g. taxi, is stopped and parked safely (since when do taxis park safely!!). Note: In my opinion, to meet the emissions in GSM transmit mode I believe would be near impossible. An alternative method would have been to get the Base charger approved and to use the Top GSM and main electronics part off the base when doing a transaction, just like a mobile phone. Any comments? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re:Conducted Rf Failures...fixes?
Hi Guys, Thanks for your responses. The ISDN Conducted RF was fixed by choosing an ISDN transformer with internal CMC (I didn't know they exisetd!) The LAN was fixed using a twisted pair cable. This was actually a Technicians mistake as I had already had this requirement on my cable drawing. Again, thanks to this group of helpful people. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
95/54/EC Automotive Directive Conflict
Hi Forum, I have a French ITE product destined to be used in the UK. Primarily this was not intended to be used in a vehicle but now we want to make this possible. We have created a 12V lead accessory so that it can also be used in a vehicle e.g. a taxi or bus. Our French colleagues got the OK from their Vehicle Authority, UTAC, that the Directive 95/54/EC did not apply quote Your terminal is not designed mainly for use in cars. Therefore, Directive 95/54/EC is not applicable for terminal, but Directive 89/336/EEC is applicable. They now ship these for use in the French Market. The UK vehicle authority, VCA, has stated Directive 95/54/EC is Mandatory for this same product. Can I ship these products for use in the the UK based on the French decision without fear of prosecution from the UK authorities? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Conducted Rf Failures...fixes?
Hi Forum, In the past I have mainly been involved in debugging emissions, ESD and EFT etc. But I have never come across trying to fix ISDN and LAN applying noise onto the cables failures due to conducted RF of 3V/M (EN55024/EN612000-4-6), as this is new to my types of product. The ISDN line only fails at frequencies less than 500KHz i.e. OK up to 80MHz. The LAN tends to fail in the 28MHz region. As I am in panic mode, is there some guidance out there for me e.g. is it usually a matter of changing the interface IC's or hanging special components onto the lines? I know it is difficult to try and resolve EMC issues online but all I am looking for is some guidance and things to try. Your help and guidance is very much appreciated. THANKS in advance! Best Regards ALEX McNEIL Ingenico Fortronic Ltd. alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Current from Car 12V cigarette lighter socket
Hi Forum, Just a clarification for me on this topic. Some vehicles have negative and some have positive chassis. Some ITE equipment is hard wired in a vehicle i.e. not always via the cigarette lighter. Am I correct in saying that this hard wired harness would be better if both lines are fused in order to meet all conditions of installation? Regards ALEX -Original Message- From: Jim Eichner [mailto:jim.eich...@xantrex.com] Sent: 18 September 2002 21:36 To: 'Ken Javor'; Jim Eichner; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: RE: Current from Car 12V cigarette lighter socket Thanks. The solution you propose is in the works. The SAE is working on a completely different style connector for power connections to 12Vdc, and 2 other styles for 42Vdc and 120Vac connectors. This effort is just getting off the ground however. Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. No really. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 1:14 PM To: Jim Eichner; 'EMC-PSTC - forum' Subject: Re: Current from Car 12V cigarette lighter socket An excellent post. Seems like a solution here would be for the newer electrical outlet to be designed differently and not mate with the older male cigarette lighter insert, and then provide an adapter that would take the cigarette lighter insert to the new electrical outlet. Then the 8 Amp limit could be relaxed for appliances with the new plug, and any old devices would still be taken care of. -- From: Jim Eichner jim.eich...@xantrex.com To: 'EMC-PSTC - forum' emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Current from Car 12V cigarette lighter socket Date: Wed, Sep 18, 2002, 1:47 PM UL2089 covers appliance using the socket. There is no UL or CSA standard covering the socket itself, but there is SAE J563, which provided dimensions and limits the continuous current drawn through lighter sockets by appliances to 8Adc. The intent is to protect the wiring in behind the lighter socket, because that wiring is based on an intermittent 10-15A load (how often do you light a cigarette?) and is therefore undersized for its overcurrent protection. In a sample of 7 or 8 cigarette lighter sockets and wiring harnesses that I pulled out of different makes of car in the mid 90's, I found wire sizes ranging from No. 16AWG to 22AWG, being protected by fuses ranging from 15 to 30A! In the world of continuous 12Vdc loads - aftermarket accessories like chargers for cell phones and laptops, in-your-car coffee makers and vacuum cleaners, etc - we need to know what continuous load the lighter socket and its harness can sustain. The SAE pegs this at 8A and UL and CSA are enforcing that limit, both in what they will allow a 12Vdc appliance to draw, and in requiring a max. 8A fuse in the lighter plug. Recognizing the limitations on lighter sockets, the automotive industry has come up with the power point: a cylindrical connector based on the cigarette lighter socket but designed, fused, wired, and rated for continuous loads and lacking the bimetal fingers that release the lighter plug when it's hot. These are usually rated for 15-20Adc continuous, allowing designers to be free of the 8A limit. In theory. However, since the male plugs on 12Vdc automotive appliances will fit both the true lighter socket and these newer power points, UL and CSA will not back down (nor should they) from the 8A limit for a 12Vdc appliance equipped with a male plug that fits a lighter socket. They also will not accept a marking such as Use only with power points, not with lighter sockets because too many cars only have lighter sockets. Not sure you're trying to do anything with that kind of power level, but you should be aware of the limitations. Regards, Jim Eichner, P.Eng. Manager, Engineering Services Xantrex Technology Inc. e-mail: jim.eich...@xantrex.com web: www.xantrex.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. No really. Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
SMPS EMC Emissions
Forum addendum I think I need to make it clearer that my main concern was for radiated emissions ps Hi Jim, Thanks for your reply Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Jim Conrad [mailto:jc...@shore.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 11:55 AM To: Alex McNeil; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: SMPS EMC Emissions Alex wrote: Do you think it is reasonable to specify in my power supply specification that the manufacturers SMPS should meet EN55022 Class B -6dB Yes. I would ask for 6 dB margin since measurement uncertainty for a typical conducted measurements system is 5.4 dB. You must also allow for unit to unit variations in manufacturing. Sample 5 units and apply the 80/80 rule and see if they still pass. Jim -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Alex McNeil Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 4:57 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: SMPS EMC Emissions Hi Group, First of all thank you to those who replied to my previous email. I have not had time to reply personally...yet. I have noticed that the broadband noise of some SMPS are already near to the limits of EN55022 Class B (I tested with a max resistive load). This gives my product little scope for emissions at these broadband frequencies, especialy when my product is taking peak load e.g. printing. The power supply manufacturer rightly claims that his product does meet EN55022 Class B. Do you think it is reasonable to specify in my power supply specification that the manufacturers SMPS should meet EN55022 Class B -6dB or? Have any of you come across a similar scenario? As usual , I look forward to your professional opinions. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
SMPS EMC Emissions
Hi Group, First of all thank you to those who replied to my previous email. I have not had time to reply personally...yet. I have noticed that the broadband noise of some SMPS are already near to the limits of EN55022 Class B (I tested with a max resistive load). This gives my product little scope for emissions at these broadband frequencies, especialy when my product is taking peak load e.g. printing. The power supply manufacturer rightly claims that his product does meet EN55022 Class B. Do you think it is reasonable to specify in my power supply specification that the manufacturers SMPS should meet EN55022 Class B -6dB or? Have any of you come across a similar scenario? As usual , I look forward to your professional opinions. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EN60950-1 Sect 2.5 Limited Power sources
Hi group, I have a query on the understanding of the above section. I thought I fully understood it until I used a different lab for Product Safety Compliance testing (both accredited!). We use a linear (basically a transformer with a PTC thermistor) class II SELV O/P stand alone power supply rated 10Vac, 5A. One of the labs tested the O/P Isc with a direct application of the sc. The other lab tested the O/P Isc by applying a load of 8A. The results were therefore interpreted differently. Isc (direct) = 30A falling to 0A within 30secs. Considered a PASS (8A for 1min) Isc (8A load) = 8A for 2mins. Considered a FAIL (8A 1min) This has a crucial bearing on whether I need a fire enclosure or not for my all plastic enclosure! 1. What is the correct method to test for a Limited Power source in determining what enclosure is required? 2. If a fire enclosure was needed what is the minimum plastic rating i.e. 94V0, V1 or what? 3. I cannot put a 5A fuse in the product, the lab says that the overcurrent protective device must be outwith the non-fire enclosure in order to stop the non compliant energy source entering the enclosure. Is this correct? 4. Similarly, I cannot use a resettable fuse in the product to meet these requirements? 5. Does the PTC used in the power supply need to meet the IEC 60730-1? I would very much appreciate clarification on this matter. THANKS!! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: ESAs certification to 95/54/EC
Hi Forum, With regards to a previous topic. I recently had an email from my colleague in France with regards a product that has not primarily been designed for in-vehicle use even although it could be if the customer so wishes via the cigarette lighter supply (I have removed the name of the actual test house): A French automotive test house working with a notified body, declare that as the product is not primarily intended to be used in a vehicle then it does not have to be compliant with 95/54/EC directives but only with 89/336/EC. Does the forum agree with this statement? and therefore all the relavent Notified Bodies of the EU should assume the same decision? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Fang Han [mailto:f...@qualcomm.com] Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 6:45 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: ESAs certification to 95/54/EC Hi Colleagues, It looks like all products for vehicle application, even they have been certified to EMC Directive or RTTE Directive, must be certified to 95/54/EC (vehicle EMC directive) before Oct 1, 2002. It seems to me that the certification route for vehicle EMC directive is different with EMC directive or RTTE directive certification. I am looking for an accredited lab/body that is authorized to certify ESAs products to 95/54/EC. I wonder if all these labs/bodies are located in Europe or there are some in USA. I understand that these labs/bodies should be authorized by the Ministry of Transportation of a EU member state. A certification done by such a lab will be accepted by all other EU member states. I appreciate it very much if someone familiar with this can shed some light. Thanks a lot, Fang
Telecomm Safety clearance
Hi Group, My products use an external double insulated power supply which supplies SELV to the product. For an analogue modem there has to be a creepage and clearance between the PSTN side and the other product electronic circuitry. I normally allow for 2.5mm and I apply this rule to all 4 layers of my PCB. I am now designing a 6 layer PCB and I intend to route some tracking in the inner layers. This has created a few questions. I would very much appreciate the forums input. Q1. Is 2.5mm OK (Norway and Sweden are to be included) and what is the minimum? Q2. Does this creepage and clearance need to apply to all 6 layers (and 4 layers)? As usual, I am very grateful for the forums help! Kind Regards ALEX _ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
FCC part 68 vs CTR21
Hi Group, Just to say thank you for your helpful replies. It is very much appreciated. Next time any of you are in Scotland I will buy you a wee half of whisky! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
FCC part 68 vs CTR21
Hi, Sorry for the deliberate(!!) mistake, the subject heading should read as above per my previous query -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil [mailto:alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com] Sent: 19 June 2002 07:08 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: FCC part 15 vs TBR21 Greetings, I wish to market a North American ITE product in Italy based on the product already approved to: * FCC Part 15 Class A (EMC) * FCC Part 68 (Analogue modem, PSTN) I know I have to CE mark the product, so I intend to: * Review the FCC part 15 emissions report and determine if I need to re-test for EN55022 Class A (I want to cut down unnecessary costs) * Test for EN55024 * Test for EN60950 For the PSTN analogue modems I am not so sure: FCC Part 68 vs CTR21 (TBR21)? Can anyone offer some advice here? I assume if the product meets CTR21 then the modem should function OK in Italy? Does Italy have other modem details that I should know about? I would appreciate comments on all ar parts of the above. ps. thanks for all the help I have received in the past from this forum! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
FCC part 15 vs TBR21
Greetings, I wish to market a North American ITE product in Italy based on the product already approved to: * FCC Part 15 Class A (EMC) * FCC Part 68 (Analogue modem, PSTN) I know I have to CE mark the product, so I intend to: * Review the FCC part 15 emissions report and determine if I need to re-test for EN55022 Class A (I want to cut down unnecessary costs) * Test for EN55024 * Test for EN60950 For the PSTN analogue modems I am not so sure: FCC Part 68 vs CTR21 (TBR21)? Can anyone offer some advice here? I assume if the product meets CTR21 then the modem should function OK in Italy? Does Italy have other modem details that I should know about? I would appreciate comments on all ar parts of the above. ps. thanks for all the help I have received in the past from this forum! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EMC Emissions vs EFT warning!
Hi Group, I am working on a small Class II product (A) i.e. no earth. The product is powered by 12Vdc via a 1M cable with RJ type connections from another similar Class II product (B) which itself is powered via an external in-line AC/AC power block (basically an AC/ac transformer) and rectified to 12Vdc internally. It has a CMC on the supply lines. The system (A+B) EMC tests were fine. However, since product A may be used in future as a stand alone product i.e. powered from it's own 12Vdc power supply, I had to add a small common mode choke to the input supply lines, the same lines as the RJ connection method, to enable me to meet the EMC requirements. Since I had added a major EMC component I decided to re-test the EMC of the system. To my horror the system (A+B) readily failed the mains EFT tests on product B. Removing the CMC on product A resolved the EFT problem. I now have to create 2 product A builds depending on the option of usage, one with CMC (Stand alone usgae) and one without a CMC (system usage). I am sure I have had a similar problem in the past but at that time I did not realise that the addition of the CMC (to resolve conducted radiated emissions) was the source of the EFT failures. I think the EFT problem must have something to do with high/low impedance mis-match due to the CMC but I am not sure. I would appreciate a more experienced member of the group explaining as to why this scenario can occur? and more importantly as a warning to others! As always I look forward to your valuable comments Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Australian TS001 now part of AUS/NZ60950?
Hi Group, If I get the product, with an internal analogue modem or ISDN, approved to AUS/NZ60950 does this mean I no longer need to get Safety Approved to TS001? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Kevin Richardson [mailto:k...@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 12:02 PM To: oover...@lexmark.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Adoption of IEC-60950 3rd Ed. Oscar, AS/NZS 60950:2000 (IEC 60950 3rd Edition) was published as the joint Australian / New Zealand standard. As you can see, it was published in 2000. Australian and New Zealand are in the balloting process for the adoption of IEC 60950-1 and it should be published around mid year (Jun/Jul 2002). It will be published as AS/NZS 60950-1:2002. Best regards, Kevin Richardson Stanimore Pty Limited Compliance Advice Solutions for Technology (including Australian Agent Services) (Legislation/Regulations/Standards) Ph: 02-4329-4070 (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070) Fax: 02-4328-5639 (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639) Mobile: 04-1224-1620 (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620) Email:kevin.richard...@ieee.org The material transmitted in this message and contained in any attachments to this message is confidential and/or privileged information and is intended only for the addressee/s. Any unauthorised use of or reliance upon this material by persons or entities other than the addressee/s is prohibited. If you receive this information in error, please notify the sender and destroy any copies of the material immediately. -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of oover...@lexmark.com Sent: Friday, 5 April 2002 2:16 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Adoption of IEC-60950 3rd Ed. Group, What is the adoption status for Greece, Israel, India and New Zealand with regards to IEC 60950, 3rd Edition? Thanx. Oscar --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS
Hi Ghery, I knew some day that the CISPR 22 (EN55022) would up the frequency range. However, it is not good news for us guys that invested heavily in a pre-complince emissions site (good news for test equipment manufacturers!) some years back. Especially with our receivers, spectrum analyzers, antenna's etc. I could not purchase 2Ghz test equipment due to financial restrictions. Anyhow, do you envisage that you will follow the FCC method of determining what upper frequency a product is tested to i.e. highest clock freq X 15th harmonic or something similar? I think this is very important and I am sure most on this forum would support this. I also heard a rumour that the 3m option in EN55022 Class B may be removed? Again, I would not want this to happen, but hopefully it is only a rumour! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 4:22 PM To: 'Gordon,Ian'; 'IEEE EMC SAFETY PSTC' Subject: RE: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS Ian, Work is progressing in CISPR SC I to amend CISPR 22 to have limits to as high as 18 GHz. This will not happen overnight, however. A committee draft (CD) document is out for comment within the national committees. I expect that it will be a hot topic of discussion at the SC I meetings in Christchurch, New Zealand in late September. From that meeting there will likely be a committee draft for vote (CDV) that will come out for a 5 month voting period. If it passes, we will be discussing the comments at the SC I meeting in South Korea next year. After than, the final draft international standard (FDIS) document will go out for vote (another 5 month period). If that passes, the changes will be implemented in the next amendment or full edition of CISPR 22. Confused? The bottom line is that, assuming everything goes smoothly for the current proposal (and we've already voted down one FDIS), 2004 is the earliest that a change to CISPR 22 could be published. Then you would be looking at some time before CENELEC put out their new version of EN 55022:1998 and then a 2 year transition period would start. 2006 at the earliest. There are no proposals to increase the frequency range for radiated immunity tests in CISPR 24 at this time. Keep in mind that these standards apply to ITE. They do not apply to other product families. Hope this helps. Keep in mind that for the U.S. you may already have to test radiated emissions to as high as 40 GHz, depending upon the maximum clock speed in your product. CISPR is playing catch-up in this area. Ghery Pettit Intel Member, CISPR SC I WG2, WG3 and WG4 -Original Message- From: Gordon,Ian [mailto:ian.gor...@edwards.boc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:14 AM To: 'IEEE EMC SAFETY PSTC' Subject: EXTENDING UPPER FREQUENCY LIMIT FOR RADIATED MEASUREMENTS I was recently told that the upper limit for radiated emission/immunity testing of non-telecomm equipment was to be raised to 3GHz. Can anyone confirm this and if so, are there plans to amend the European generic standards? Thanks Ian Gordon _ This message has been checked for all known viruses by UUNET delivered through the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit http://www.uk.uu.net/products/security/virus/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http
RE: Immunity Test System
Hi Donald, I have the TRA1000 (the previous version, but very little difference to the TRA 2000) and find it an excellent value for money. I have just had it re-calibrated for the 2nd time, no problems! I use it for compliance immunity testing. Notes: No faults to date Very flexible programming (good once you find your way around it) Tests beyond the specification requirements TRACS Plus S/W better ESD I tend to use manually, but that is just my choice For an all-in-one EN61000-4-X tester it is hard to find something better value for money! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Donald McElheran [mailto:dmcelhe...@rossvideo.com] Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 8:25 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Immunity Test System Group: We are currently considering the purchase of a EMC-Partner TRA2000 Immunity test system. Are there any members of the group that are familiar with, or have used this test system and would be willing to share there comments good or bad. This system appears to provide full compliance testing capability at a very attractive price. If any one is reluctant to comment on line I can be reached by e-mail don...@hq.rossvideo.com Regards Donald McElheran Product Compliance Ross Video Ltd.
RE: EN60950:1992 vs EN60950:2000
Hi Duncan, I have the following information, I think I got it from my local KTL lab: EN60950:1992 VS EN60950:2000 Updated Safety Requirements for IT Telecoms Equipment Under the Low Voltage Directive EN 60950:2000 was implemented at a national level on 1st January 2001, replacing EN 60950 : 1992 including amendments: 1,2,3,4 and 11, which will be withdrawn in due course. EN 60950:2000 is a harmonised standard under the Low Voltage Directive and as such compliance with it provides a presumption of conformity with the essential requirements of the Directive. The European Commission publishes dates for cessation of the presumption of conformity, as shown below: Amendment (A1) EN 60950 : 1992 1st March 2000 (Expired) Amendment (A2) Amendment (A1) 1st March 2000 (Expired) Amendment (A3) Amendment (A2) 1st January 2002 Amendment (A4) Amendment (A3) 1st August 2003 Amendment (A11) Amendment (A4) 1st August 2003 EN 60950 : 2000 Amendment (A11) 1st January 2005 What are the main differences between EN 60950 : 2000 and EN 60950 : 1992 inc amendments ? The most obvious change in the new standard relates to the clause numbering, which has been dramatically re-organised, but there are also a number of amendments and additional requirements as follows: Batteries There is a requirement to consider, and in some cases test, any battery installed in the equipment, (not just lithium batteries as previous). Also manufacturers of equipment powered solely from an internal power source can now use the relaxation under clause 4.4.5.2 covering the need for a fire enclosure. Protective Earthing / Bonding Methods of determining the resistance of earthing conductors and their minimum cross sectional areas have been added or modified. Also tests have been made more onerous for the testing of earth conductors within equipment rated in excess of 16A, and earth bonding conductors must be separated from protective earthing conducters. Opto-Isolators Tests are now specified under clause 2.10.5.1. Also the distance through the insulation for supplementary and reinforced insulation is relaxed under certain circumstances. Alternative Method for Determining Clearance Annex G provides an alternative method of determining clearance. Mains Cords The minimum designation for detachable mains cords is now the same for equipment with a mass up to 3kg, irrespective of the total mass. Also the cross sectional area of mains cords table has been expanded to include higher currents. Wiring Terminals Included in clause 3.3.6 are a number of constructional requirements for the terminal supplied for the connection of permanently connected equipment or equipment with ordinary non-detachable power cords. 10N, Steady Force Test A new test has been added requiring components and parts to be subjected to a 10N force. Wall Ceiling Mounted Equipment A force equal to 3 times the mass of the equipment or 50N (whichever is greater) is now applied when the equipment is mounted on the wall or ceiling, to ensure it does not become unstable. Openings in Transportable Equipment New requirements have been added addressing problems of foreign objects entering equipment, e.g. lap top computers, from any orientation and being subject to movement within the enclosure. Leakage Currents to from the Networks The standard addresses leakage currents to and from the telecommunications networks and also considers hazards which may arise as a result of leakage to or from multiple network connections. Flammability A number of alternative methods of determining flammability have been added, including the Glow Wire Test for components and parts located outside fire enclosures. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com [mailto:duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 8:45 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EN60950:1992 vs EN60950:2000 Group, Does anyone have a list of all the differences between EN60950:1992 and EN60950:2000? If so may I have a copy. Many thanks in advance Duncan Hobbs. -- The contents of this communication are confidential to the normal user of the email address to which it was sent. If you have received this email in error, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If this is the case, please notify the sender and delete this message. -- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help
EMC and Safety Schematic and PCB Reviews
Hi Guys, Sorry I should have mentioned SCHEMATIC and PCB LAYOUT review: Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC Schematic and PCB Design Check list? Does any kind person have such a thing as a Safety Schematic and PCB Design Check list? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2002 2:46 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EMC and Safety PCB Reviews Hi Guys, I am being asked to review PCB's for EMC (and Safety) acceptance. I was going to try and collate a check list then I thought of this wonderful forum!! Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC PCB Design Check list? Does any kind person have such a thing as an Safety PCB Design Check list? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EMC and Safety PCB Reviews
Hi Guys, I am being asked to review PCB's for EMC (and Safety) acceptance. I was going to try and collate a check list then I thought of this wonderful forum!! Does any kind person have such a thing as an EMC PCB Design Check list? Does any kind person have such a thing as an Safety PCB Design Check list? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: RTTE
Hi Richard, Have you tried this website on State of play of implementation of the Directive http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/implem.htm Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com [mailto:richwo...@tycoint.com] Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 4:01 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RTTE Have any European states that are not EU or EFTA members adopted the RTTE Directive and Notificaion process? In other words, will any other European countries allow a radio product to be placed on their market if the processes of the RTTE Directive are followed without the need for any other special national process to be followed? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Bellcore LATA
Hi Group, I am not too familiar with the North American requrements: Our customer has requested Surge Protection testing to the Bellcore LATA Switching General Requirements. 600 Vpk metallic, and 2500 Vpk longitudinal. 1. Are you familiar with this spec? 2. Are these requirements covered in any of the Regulatory Telecomms or Safety specs or is our Customer wanting something beyond the regulatory requirements? 3. How can I get a copy of this standard? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Vehicle EMC and Safety standards
Hi Group, Thanks to all who responded on my query. The response was as usual of a high calibre. Thanks to this forum I can proceed with the project plan, confident that I have got the Compliance/Regulatory section spot on! Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Vehicle EMC and Safety standards
Hi Group, Our financial transaction terminals are mostly used in the commercial area e.g. shops and offices, which use a separate AC/DC power supply block connected to the mains There is a requirement for these same products to be used in vehicles e.g. Taxis and Buses. These would use the power from the batteries possibly from the cigarette lighter holder (12Volts). I have obviously had to design in additional filter circuitry to account for this type of DC Supply source. My question is, will there be additional EMC and Safety requirements in Europe or North America (other than those already approved for use in commercial areas) for vehicle/mobile use? Already Approved to: EMC: EN55022 Class B, *EN55024, EN6100-3-2, EN61000-3-3, FCC Part 15, ICES-003 Safety: EN60950 (also UL/CSA) *The only additional test I can think of is for the EN55024 to include the DC Power Port tests (excluded before due to the terminal being supplied from an AC/DC power source). As usual I look forward to your invaluable replies. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EFT problem with I2C Serial Bus
Hi Group, To those of you who are familiar with the I2C Serial Bus. Have you experienced a similar problem, as described below, with EN55024 mains EFT noise? I know it can be misleading to try and resolve a problem over the internet, but you can never tell... I need to attach a 4way 2metre lengfh of cable to my product I2C Bus output to supply a peripheral. When I apply the mains EFT pulse at 500V the product, with this new cable only attached and no peripheral, hangs. I have diagnosed the problem down to this cable picking up the EFT radiated noise from the AC SELV output cable (input to the product) of the 230Vac/10Vac power supply. When I remove the I2C i.e. the SDA and SLC lines, within the product, the product passes the EFT. When I re-attach either of these signals the system hangs. This was just to further prove the I2C bus was causing the problem. The product passed the EFT 2KV pulse with no I2C cable attached. Also, I cannot alter the power supply. I have tried various solutions on the PCB, all to my disappointment: Ferrites on cables Varied series resistor values on the SDA and SLC (22R to 330R) Varied series ferrite values on the SDA and SLC BAV99 (2 serial fast signal diodes package hanging on the lines) 100pf caps hanging on the lines Note: My product is a Class II (no earthing), all plastic. I would appreciate any comments? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
UK Members only EMC+Safety+Environmental Test Technician/Engineer
Hi Group, I hope no one objects to me placing this on this excellent forum. I am looking for a Test Technician or Engineer to help me run a pre-compliance lab I have managed to put together. Duties involve mainly EMC testing to EN55022, EN55024, FCC Part15. Knowledge of Safety testing to EN60950 and Environmental testing (Climatic, Mechanical etc.) would be an advantage. I will expand on the job specification to those people who reply to me personally. Note: If anyone on this forum in the UK knows someone who would be interested, please feel free for them to contact me. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
ITE equipment in Petrol Station (Gas) outlets
Hi Group, Can someone clarify the standards required for ITE to be placed in Petrol Station (or Gas for our N. American friends) outlets? The ITE may be placed indoors or outdoors at these sites. Normally our products are qualified for: Europe: EN55022 + EN55024 (EMC) and EN60950 (Safety for indoor use only class) N. America: FCC Part 15, ECES-003 (EMC) and UL1950 (Safety for indoor use only class) Petrol Station Indoors Europe??? N.America??? Petrol Station Outdoors Europe??? N.America??? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Global Approvals..EMC..Safety..Comms
Hi Group, I have been given a project to obtain the CE Mark for a particular product. However, I know, as my past and painful experiences to date have shown, that the marketing department will want to ship this product worldwide. In my opinion, the product will eventually be shipped to North and South America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Asia. So I have decided to, with co-operation from my design engineers, obtain Approvals on a global basis. This will be my first attempt. You never know, if I do it well maybe this will help my next salary review (sorry just dreaming!). I know this may be a small question with a lot of answers required, but if you as an individual could answer their particular area of expertise then I would not take up too much of your time. I can assure you it would be very much appreciated. I am willing to divide my expected salary increase to all those who participate (Note: 10% of nothing = 0!!) For My Input Product Safety EN60950 with National deviations. UL or CSA marking application based on the CB report? 1. I intend to use the Certified Body (CB) scheme to obtain a CB Report and Certificate. It currently has 42 member countries. 2. Submit a fully configured product, with all options identified, to my chosen CB Test House, as identified by the NCB. 3. Choose a Power Supply that already has global approvals. 4. Choose a VGA display that already has global approvals. EMC ITE = EN55022 and EN55024 (EEA), Self verification to CFR 47 Part 15 (USA), ICES-003 (Canada) based on the EN standards? SRD = EN 301 489-1 -3 GSM = EN 301 489-1 -7 1. Although the CB scheme does not include EMC, I intend to ask the Test House for a similar CB Report which may or may not be acceptable to other Countries outside the EEA. However, I think it would help! Communications (The most difficult!) PSTN = CTR21 (EEA only), FCC Part 68 (USA) and ICES-003 (Canada) but do I need both USA and Canada? Other Regions? GSM = CTR 5 (EEA only) Other Regions? SRD = EN 300 220-3 (EEA only) Other Regions? Dial and leased line modem? Ethernet? Mobitex? CDMA? TDMA? The Main Product Details * Switching power supply supporting 100 VAC to 240 VAC, 50/60 Hz * ¼ VGA monochrome display (color optional) * PCMCIA peripheral port * 10BaseT ethernet port * Dial and leased line modem * RF modem (optional Mobitex, GSM, CDMA, TDMA) THANKS!! In anticipation of your usual excellent responses. Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Radio Module, full product re-test?
Hi Group, Situation I have an alternate Small Radio Device (SRD) Module, previous one obsoleted, in a product. This new alternate Radio Module has ETS 300 683 (EMC) and EN 300 220-1 (Radio) approvals and DoC supplied by the manufacturer. The product was already approved to these standards with the obsoleted module, plus EN55022 and EN55024. To Show Due Dilligence (CE Mark) What is the minimum I need to do for EMC re-verification, if any? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: jim.hulb...@pb.com [mailto:jim.hulb...@pb.com] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 7:19 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:CISPR 22:1997 The European Union has postponed mandatory compliance with CISPR 22:1997 (EN 55022:1998) until 1 August 2003. This version of the standard includes the new requirement for conducted emissions on cables connected to telecommunications ports. Have other countries that require compliance with CISPR 22 (or some variation thereof) also postponed implementation of the 1997 version? My immediate concern is Australia. Any information members of this group can share is greatly appreciated. Jim Hulbert Senior Engineer - EMC Pitney Bowes --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
EFT Failures..Solved!+ ESD symbol question
Hi Group, The problem was an oversensitive Display driver. Replacing this driver solved my problem. It was diagnosed by: 1. Was the problem due to conductive or radiated or both? By using the DC lead, made a small loop, as my noise source with EFT test running, I noticed the problem occurring near the display circuitry. The fault was actually a Display lock whereas I thought it was a keyboard lock (same symptons). I then attached my large ferrite core to the DC cable, several turns, and repeated the test. No problems. I assumed from this that radiated was the problem. 2. What was actually picking up the noise and was the fault the display driver? I assumed the cable connected to my display was picking up this noise and conductively passing it on to the display driver. I could not bypass the problem using caps, functionality started to play up a bit depending on my value of capacitor. It was at this time I noticed that we were using an unfamiliar driver manufacturer! I went to the stores and found the proper part, fitted it and BINGO it now passes up to 3KV I am relatively new to this forum. but I think it a good idea if we all share our problems and diagnostics. I am sure this would be a great help to many of us!! However, for my next question? I want to place a Static Sensitive Area symbol on my product molding, avoiding words, as it will be a worldwide product. The suymbol will be explained in the user guide. Q. Is there a worldwide symbol to denote a Static Sensitive Area or a European one and another North American one or I would need the .bmp file if possible? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 9:44 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject:EFT Failures..Update! Hi Group, THANKS for your very much appreciated responses!! I was in panic mode!! I thought it would be appropriate to let you know the status. My product is a small all plastic enclosure Point if Sale (POS) Class III terminal. It has an external SMPS, Class II, no earth, supplying SELV, 12Vdc 1.5A to my product. The power supply works OK with some of our other products, for EMC. The problem is with my product. I solved the problem at the test house by wrapping a few turns of the DC PSU cable through a Large Ferrite Clamp at the Product input (it did not work so well at the PSU I/P nor O/P). The fix cannot be considered final due to obvious reasons. I am now at my Lab, now the serious diagnostics begin. I have been trying various quick fixes to no avail i.e. Caps, TVS, MOV etc. If you have any further comments feel free to email me. THANKS again to all those who responded with their thoughts. I can tell you they were wide and varied just as you would expect to trying to resolve an EMC problem over the NET!! Best Regards alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: 22 October 2001 11:23 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:EFT Failures..Help! Hi Guys, I am at an EMC test centre today and tomorrow. Unfortunately, my product failed EFT testing on the AC power port at 1KV. This is for various combinations of Line, Neutral and Earth (L, N, E, LN, LE, NE and LNE) My product is Class II, no Earth. It is supplied by an external power supply. This supplies SELV to my product. The power supply manufacturer has stated that his power supply meets EN61000-4-4 for 2KV and has emailed me this report to verify this. Has anyone got a quick solution to my problem so that I can implement here at the EMC test house? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy
EFT Failures..Update!
Hi Group, THANKS for your very much appreciated responses!! I was in panic mode!! I thought it would be appropriate to let you know the status. My product is a small all plastic enclosure Point if Sale (POS) Class III terminal. It has an external SMPS, Class II, no earth, supplying SELV, 12Vdc 1.5A to my product. The power supply works OK with some of our other products, for EMC. The problem is with my product. I solved the problem at the test house by wrapping a few turns of the DC PSU cable through a Large Ferrite Clamp at the Product input (it did not work so well at the PSU I/P nor O/P). The fix cannot be considered final due to obvious reasons. I am now at my Lab, now the serious diagnostics begin. I have been trying various quick fixes to no avail i.e. Caps, TVS, MOV etc. If you have any further comments feel free to email me. THANKS again to all those who responded with their thoughts. I can tell you they were wide and varied just as you would expect to trying to resolve an EMC problem over the NET!! Best Regards alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com -Original Message- From: Alex McNeil Sent: 22 October 2001 11:23 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: EFT Failures..Help! Hi Guys, I am at an EMC test centre today and tomorrow. Unfortunately, my product failed EFT testing on the AC power port at 1KV. This is for various combinations of Line, Neutral and Earth (L, N, E, LN, LE, NE and LNE) My product is Class II, no Earth. It is supplied by an external power supply. This supplies SELV to my product. The power supply manufacturer has stated that his power supply meets EN61000-4-4 for 2KV and has emailed me this report to verify this. Has anyone got a quick solution to my problem so that I can implement here at the EMC test house? Kind Regards Alex McNeil Principal Engineer Tel: +44 (0)131 479 8375 Fax: +44 (0)131 479 8321 email: alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: EMC and power supply
Hi Amund, I have experienced a CE Marked power supply, which was used to replace an existing one failing EMC EN55022 as part of the system i.e. Product + Power Supply. This was purchased to the same specification but from a different manufacturer. It seems that power supply manufacturers tend to EMC test their products with resistive loads only and not always at full load. Also, the loading is obviously different when connected to an actual product. In my opinion you must always re-test the system when one of the major sub-assemblies or components are changed, including alternative parts. You are responsible for the system EMC. The power supply manufacturer is not responsible for his CE marked power supply (assuming he has valid reports etc. to back up his Declaration of Conformity) failing in the system. The rule CE + CE not= CE is a valid statement unless proven otherwise (tested). Always abide by this and you won't go wrong. I hope this helps! Regards ALEX -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [mailto:am...@westin.org] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 10:33 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:EMC and power supply Hi all, 1. We plan to EMC test a stand alone power supply (PS1) 2. We have an IT product which has passed the EMC test. 3. We want to remove the current power supply in the IT product and replace it with the power supply (PS1) after it has passed the EMC tests. If power supply (PS1) pass the EMC test, do we have to make any re-tests on the IT product ? I recall some talks about CE+CE not CE. Any suggestions ? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
EN55022 Radiated Test Set up
Hi Guys, I have a query regarding how the 3M or 10M emissions set up should be measured. EMC Test Houses seem to appply the measurement of the 3M/10M differently e.g. measurement can be to the front (or rear) edge of the EUT, peripherals and cables setup with Turntable at 0 degrees. This means that at some point during Turntable revolutions the EUT will violate the 3M or 10M rule i.e. the EUT with peripherals and cables will be less than the initial measured distance during turntable movement. Should the 3M/10M be measured to the periphery of the EUT after monitoring the turntable revolution? This would mean that during Turntable movement the 3M or 10M is not violated with peripherals or cables, but also that the centre of the setup is always more than 3M/10M. Any Ideas or better still any simply explained documents (for all EMC test procedures) that spells this out very precisely. Best Regards Alex McNeil --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: Product Safety: A Matter of Law or Litigation?
Doug, As a general rule you should always have your products Safety Approved. This is showing Due Dilligence in that you have had the product safety evaluated. The latest EN60950:2000 covers ...mains powered or battery-powered ITE with a Rated Voltage not exceeding 600V i.e. there is no lower voltage limit! I hope this helps? Regards ALEX -Original Message- From: Massey, Doug C. [mailto:masse...@ems-t.com] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2001 1:47 PM To: 'IEEE Forum' Subject:Product Safety: A Matter of Law or Litigation? Colleagues: I have been tasked with justifying the need for independent, third party evaluations of the safety of our company's products to applicable standards. Our company manufactures various ITE equipment, either handheld, battery powered devices, or ITE devices powered by vehicle batteries. In particular, the scope of the LVD states that it is applicable to devices rated 50-1000Vac or 75-1500Vdc; most of our products are below 75Vdc. We market these products in 35 countries; North America, the EU/EFTA, and others - in fact, pretty much all of the countries participating in the CB Scheme. In the US, OSHA regs justify this requirement, as our equipment is sold through direct channels solely for logistics applications - in other words, US workers will be using the equipment - it's not for general consumer use. TITLE 29--LABOR PART 1910--OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH STANDARDS--Table of Contents Subpart S--Electrical Sec. 1910.399 Definitions applicable to this subpart. Acceptable. An installation or equipment is acceptable to the Assistant Secretary of Labor, and approved within the meaning of this Subpart S: (i) If it is accepted, or certified, or listed, or labeled, or otherwise determined to be safe by a nationally recognized testing laboratory; or (ii) With respect to an installation or equipment of a kind which no nationally recognized testing laboratory accepts, certifies, lists, labels, or determines to be safe, if it is inspected or tested by another Federal agency, or by a State, municipal, or other local authority responsible for enforcing occupational safety provisions of the National Electrical Code and found in compliance with the provisions of the National Electrical Code as applied in this subpart; or ... In the EU/EFTA, the justification is not so easy. As I mentioned earlier, the products are exempt from the LVD. The General Product Safety Directive, and the Product Liability Directive, do not give me an easy justification, such as in the case of the OSHA regs stated in US Federal Code. My company has always had all products evaluated to the -950 standards, but has observed that other manufacturers of similar equipment do not have their products evaluated to applicable safety standards, and CE mark their products based on compliance to the EMC Directive, but not to the LVD. I would greatly appreciate your insights, opinions, and assistance with this question. Doug Massey Safety Approvals Engineer LXE, Inc. Norcross, GA., USA Ph. (770) 447-4224 x3607 FAX (770) 447-6928 e-mail: masse...@lxe.com Cruise our website at: http:\\www.lxe.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
