Re: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello Brian, All,
I purchase my IEC/EN standards from EVS- Estonian Standards. They track the 
standards that I purchase and let me know when changes are made.  We also refer 
to the Official Journal, and other information sites.





We hereby inform you that changes have taken place in the ICS groups of the 
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EVS JOURNAL<https://bit.ly/evs-teataja>



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____


[https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Logos%20(Delta-Q)/25-06-2012_Delta_Q_Corporate_Grey_Mango_Vertical.png]
Brian Ceresney


Regulatory Lead



Delta-Q Technologies Corp.


A ZAPI GROUP Company



1 (604) 566-8827


bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>


delta-q.com<https://delta-q.com/>



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From: Brian Gregory 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2023 10:21 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Tracking standards updates

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Good afternoon compliance colleagues,

Have a curiously open-ended question from a major OEM who's very 
process-oriented.
So, I'm gathering ideas on how to track standard updates and changes in 
multiple markets (US, EU, etc.).

I'm familiar with IAEI for collaborating with NA inspectors on NEC updates, and 
know that UL & ETL have various update notice/networks, but have no idea how to 
track IEC updates, nor residential code changes for someplace like the UK.  
This is applicable mostly for safety, perhaps a little on EMC.

thanks!

"Colorado" Brian
720-450-4933

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Re: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety

[Brian Ceresney]

Hi Ryan, All.
After years in this predicament, I've defaulted to using the agencies to 
research the requirements for me.  I also list the countries needed and submit 
for a quote to an agency with an international GMAP group. For a reasonable 
fee, they will research and provide the information. This may take months to 
complete, however because it's not easy.
In addition, the agencies often send out emails touting their appointment as 
the agency favoured to perform specific country approvals. I've found often 
that the agency personnel are not aware of how to perform this approval, and 
sometimes no one in the agency knows either - even in-country staff!
Another good one I've found is that some of the requests from customers contain 
tiny jurisdictions where almost no one lives. Good times!

Best Of Luck.
Best Regards,
Brian C.





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Brian Ceresney


Regulatory Lead



Delta-Q Technologies Corp.


A Zapi Group Company



1-604-566-8827


bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>


delta-q.com<https://delta-q.com/>



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From: Ryan Jazz 
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2022 12:08 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Country Requirements -EMC Safety

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Dear Members,
I am trying to create a list of country requirement as it relates to EMC and 
Safety requirements.
However I have not been successful-These requirements appear to be a mystery.
One would think if manufacturers are required to meet country requirements it 
would be public knowledge.
I have checked trade.gov and other searches with no luck.
If anyone can please share this secret it would be much appreciated.
Perhaps you can share how you go about finding these requirements.
If one has to use a subscription service to get the answers I would like to 
hear any recommendations.
Sincerely,
Ryan Jazz
Ryan Jayasinghe
Regulatory Compliance Engineer
rjayasin...@line6.com<mailto:rjayasin...@line6.com>

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous 
Huxley

LINE6
26580 Agoura Road
Calabasas CA 91302
818.575.3711
line6.com
ampeg.com

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Re: [PSES] UN Regulations for Vehicles

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello Gents,
In my understanding, having your assembly certified to R10 will allow one to 
replace a competitor’s certified assembly in a vehicle without further test of 
the vehicle.

Best Regards,
Brian C.






[https://connect.delta-q.com/hubfs/Logos%20(Delta-Q)/25-06-2012_Delta_Q_Corporate_Grey_Mango_Vertical.png]
Brian Ceresney


Regulatory Lead



Delta-Q Technologies Corp.


A Zapi Group Company



1-604-566-8827


bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>


delta-q.com<https://delta-q.com/>



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From: Patrick Lawler 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2022 5:59 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UN Regulations for Vehicles

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
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Hi David,

Thank you.  Upon further digging, I realized the new set of regulations came 
about when I wasn't involved in regulatory issues.  Normally, I would have 
known about the changes.

We'll be selling a subassembly to a vehicle manufacturer.  Although they may 
want test results, I don't think  certification is something we'll be dealing 
with.  Good to know, regardless.

Have a good week,
Patrick

On Fri, Apr 8, 2022 at 4:21 PM David Schaefer 
mailto:david.schae...@element.com>> wrote:
Hi Patrick,

That is what is more commonly known as UN ECE Regulation 10, or Reg 10.05 
(fifth edition). For EMC it has pretty much replaced the EU directive 
(2004/104/EC being the most recent) for EMC for automobiles.

Since it is a UN doc more than just the EU are signed onto it – I don’t have 
the list in front of me, but I think AS/NZS, South Korea, and South Africa may 
use it among others. I don’t know their regulatory requirements though.

One of the biggest things to be aware of – immunity related devices as defined 
in the regulation require certification – no self declaration like for CE. You 
need a Technical Service as designated by an Approval Authority. Each country 
has an Approval Authority – e.g. NSAI in Ireland, Ministry of Transpot in the 
Czech Republic, etc.

Testing has to be witnessed by someone approved by a Technical Service, and 
post test there is certification paperwork – conformity of production is a big 
deal and covered in a clause in ECE R10.

Thanks,



[cid:image001.jpg@01D84DB8.2940E670]



David Schaefer​





Technical Manager


Element Materials Technology



9349 W Broadway Ave


Brooklyn Park


,


MN



55445


,


United States




O +1 612 638 5136



ext. 10461



david.schae...@element.com<mailto:david.schae...@element.com>


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From: Patrick Lawler [mailto:plawl...@gmail.com<mailto:plawl...@gmail.com>]
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 5:36 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] UN Regulations for Vehicles


CAUTION:This email originated from outside of Element Materials Technology. DO 
NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know 
the content is safe. Please contact IT Service Desk if you are in any doubt 
about this email.
Good Friday afternoon,

I’m reviewing a customer specification for EMC requirements for the battery 
charger used in their electric vehicle.  They’re calling out a document that 
sounds official, yet I have not heard of before.  With the emblem of the United 
Nations on the title page, the title is:

‘Concerning the Adoption of Harmonized Technical United Nations Regulations for 
Wheeled V

Re: [PSES] Job Posting

[Brian Ceresney]

Hi All,
I received the posting by email as well.

Best Regards,
Brian C.


[Description: Description: Description: delta-q formatted 
gif.png]<http://www.delta-q.com/>Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>
Website: www.delta-q.com<http://www.delta-q.com/>

Connect with Delta-Q Technologies Corp
[Description: Description: 
cid:image004.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90]<http://www.linkedin.com/company/delta-q-technologies>
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<https://twitter.com/DeltaQTech/>  [Description: Description: 
cid:image006.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90] 
<http://www.youtube.com/user/DeltaQTechnologies>  [Description: Description: 
cid:image008.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90] 
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From: Ken Javor 
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 11:15 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Posting

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
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is safe.

I saw one. Something about a compliance manager for a company selling into the 
EU, or all over, or some such.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


From: Patrick 
Reply-To: Patrick 
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 09:20:52 -0800
To: 
Subject: [PSES] Job Posting

i'd like to post a job opening, but can't seem to get through.

.. this is second attempt to get a message onto the forum.
message sent yesterday not showing in my inbox...

does anyone see a message from me, from yesterday, with a job posting?

-Patrick
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Re: [PSES] Suitable Test equipment for Touch temperature Testing in accordance with EN 62368-1

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello Regulatory Experts,
We do use an IR camera as an initial indicator, to identify the hottest areas 
for further investigation of the hottest areas using thermocouples.
Our products typically have cast metal enclosures, so we coat enclosure areas 
with a flat painted finish to obtain reasonably accurate indication. (we find 
that semi-reflective, or black surfaces can "muddy the waters" )
I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Brian C.


[Description: Description: Description: delta-q formatted 
gif.png]<http://www.delta-q.com/>Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>
Website: www.delta-q.com<http://www.delta-q.com/>

Connect with Delta-Q Technologies Corp
[Description: Description: 
cid:image004.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90]<http://www.linkedin.com/company/delta-q-technologies>
 [Description: Description: cid:image005.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90] 
<https://twitter.com/DeltaQTech/>  [Description: Description: 
cid:image006.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90] 
<http://www.youtube.com/user/DeltaQTechnologies>  [Description: Description: 
cid:image008.png@01CE4CBE.35B2CA90] 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Delta-Q-Technologies/362323467183918?fref=ts>  
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From: Philip Stevenson 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 10:02 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Suitable Test equipment for Touch temperature Testing in 
accordance with EN 62368-1

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

Thank Rich for your reply. That is my view as well. I use thermocouples for 
temperature rise measurements.

Regards

Philip Stevenson

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows

From: Richard Nute<mailto:ri...@ieee.org>
Sent: 22 September 2021 17:57
To: 'Philip Stevenson'<mailto:pw...@hotmail.co.uk>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Suitable Test equipment for Touch temperature Testing in 
accordance with EN 62368-1



Hi Phillip:

As far as I know, 62368-1 does not specify the method for measuring touch 
temperatures.  Be aware that certification houses usually measure touch (and 
all other) temperatures with a thermocouple.

Stay safe, and best regards,
Rich


From: Philip Stevenson mailto:pw...@hotmail.co.uk>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2021 7:42 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [PSES] Suitable Test equipment for Touch temperature Testing in 
accordance with EN 62368-1

Dear List Members

I am looking for advice of whether the use of an Infra Red (IR) Digital 
Thermometer is suitable for performing Touch temperature Testing in accordance 
with EN 62368-1. Provided that factors for the different surface materials are 
applied to the temperature measurements?

If you prefer to reply to me directly instead of vis the listing please do so 
at pw...@hotmail.co.uk<mailto:pw...@hotmail.co.uk>.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards

Philip Stevenson



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All 

Re: [PSES] EU DoC on Thumb Drive?

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello All,
Apologies for “hijacking the thread”, but we’ve been considering the 
now-ubiquitous(post pandemic) QR Code as a method of delivering information 
about the product – user manual, declarations for the EU, MC documentation, 
etc. A small accessible code label could really help make information 
accessible to the customer, using the cell phone.
Does this also still fall under the “not-yet” category?

Best Regards,
Brian C.
From: Pete Perkins <0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 10:34 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU DoC on Thumb Drive?

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
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Carl et al,

   This question has been asked before and the official answer 
seems to still be ‘not yet’.

   Some folks in the IEEE PSES TAC/ITE interest group have been 
working to put together a draft proposal that would allow digital documentation 
(thumb drive or even website) to meet the requirements.  As noted, there are 
many interests in this way outside our usual working circle.  Nothing has 
developed from this yet; maybe sometime in the future.

   Keep your hopes up though; pie in the sky is what keeps us going 
some time.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 1067
Albany, ORe  97321-0413

503/452-1201

IEEE Life Fellow
IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
www.researchgate.net search my name
p.perk...@ieee.org


Entropy ain’t what it used to be

From: Charlie Blackham 
mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2021 1:17 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EU DoC on Thumb Drive?

Carl

A number of other Directives such as RED and Machinery also require DoC to be 
provided with equipment

In the absence of Guidance that says you can provide it electronically it is 
best to work on the basis that you must not – Customs / Market enforcement will 
expect to be able to find the DoC if they inspect the product, and if it’s not 
in print format they won’t be able to as they’re not going to load up a CD or 
USB stick, and you will be considered to be shipping “non-compliant” product

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Carl Newton mailto:emcl...@gmail.com>>
Sent: 13 May 2021 20:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EU DoC on Thumb Drive?


Group,

I've not been able to find anything that suggests that the EU DoC can be 
provided with the product electronically for a medical device.  I sent an 
inquiry to the commission and received no response.  The MDD and MDR require 
that the DoC is shipped with each product  and I have a customer that would 
like to include it on a thumb drive document package that will ship with the 
device rather than a paper hard-copy.

Do any of you have experience with this question that you can share?

Thanks in advance,

Carl
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Re: [PSES] Japanese safety lab

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello Peter, All,
We performed approvals for Japan with TUV-SUD Singapore, in conjunction with a 
current CB report to IC60335-2-29.
Not ITE products, but they might be able to help you.

Best Regards,
Brian C.


[cid:image008.png@01D5F244.53179510]<http://www.delta-q.com/>Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>
Website: www.delta-q.com<http://www.delta-q.com/>

Connect with Delta-Q Technologies Corp
[cid:image003.png@01D5F244.530608E0]<http://www.linkedin.com/company/delta-q-technologies>
 [cid:image004.png@01D5F244.530608E0] <https://twitter.com/DeltaQTech/>  
[cid:image005.png@01D5F244.530608E0] 
<http://www.youtube.com/user/DeltaQTechnologies>  
[cid:image006.png@01D5F244.530608E0] 
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Delta-Q-Technologies/362323467183918?fref=ts>  
[cid:image007.png@01D5F244.530608E0] 


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From: 06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
<06cee064502d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2020 2:55 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Japanese safety lab

Friends,

Are there any other government agency that can do safety tests beside JET in 
Japan? I have been dealing with JET directly and it has been a nightmare due to 
their lack of knowledge of ITE standard and wanted to see if there are any 
other labs that I can use rather than JET.

Thanks
Peter

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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello All,
Belated thanks to all who responded to my request for help. Lots of good 
information provided, and also educated opinions, which are worth their weight 
in gold!
Best Regards,
Brian C.



From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: August-22-17 9:31 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts


Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)


Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
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message.


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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello All,

We have a base design that passed testing (exhibiting no damage) using a 
1.2u/50uS open-circuit of 15kV, and an 8/20uS current peak of 7.5kA, as per 
IEC61000-4-5. (This product did not include the extra design features that I 
proposed earlier, only basic surge suppression, and a fuse rated for higher 
energy).
I believe that the internal surge impedance is specified for this test 
equipment, but I don't know it offhand.
Testing used 5 positive and 5 negative pulses for each of Line-Ground, Line 
-Neutral, and Neutral- Ground.

My impression was that in case of a short-circuited or leaky surge suppression 
device, the primary fusing might not be of a value that would not open soon 
enough to prevent possible shock hazard from leakage.  Therefore a secondary 
series fuse, or series spark gap device would be required to stop this 
condition.

Best Regards,
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3
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From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: August-22-17 10:06 AM
To: Brian Ceresney <bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

>From what impedance? I know that these are successive questions, but without 
>information about the source, nothing can be reliably designed. Standards in 
>the IEC 62561 series might help with information.


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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains input.
Best Regards,
Brian C.



From: James Pawson (U3C) [mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk]
Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM
To: Brian Ceresney <bceres...@delta-q.com>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

Hello Brian,

What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input?

Thanks
James


From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts


Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)

____
Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

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the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
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message.


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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)


Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.



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Re: [PSES] Low current Transformer OC Protection

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello Experts,
In a previous life I spent quite a bit of time testing power-limited small 
transformers to North American requirements. One of the design strategies I 
encountered was the use of a special nylon coated wire(NEW), which would open 
safely and repeat-ably under fault conditions at a very specific temperature. 
The winding did not fail as result of current, but of elevated temperature.
This process only took a few minutes under fault conditions, and samples 
invariably passed dielectric strength tests afterwards.
Memory fails me as to the actual temperature measured in real-time, but I’d 
guess that the overall winding temperature would be 120 degrees or so when the 
winding became a fuse.
This may be an option for your application, as the transformer fails safe, but 
has a high enough impedance that inrush is not an issue.
I hope this helps.
Brian IV

Best Regards,
Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
Phone 1.604.566.8827

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From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: October-31-16 11:22 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Low current Transformer OC Protection



Hi Brian:

It sounds to me as though you have an “impedance-protected” transformer.  A 
common example in the USA is a doorbell transformer.  The output can be shorted 
all day, and the transformer will not overheat (exceed the insulation 
temperature ratings).  The transformer cannot draw or supply enough current to 
operate a fuse.  And, it cannot get hot enough (above normal temperatures) to 
operate thermal protector.

You can explain to the inspector that it is an impedance-protected transformer. 
 He may not understand, so you will have to insist that he take your 
explanation back to his office for further consideration.

Or, put a fuse in, knowing that its only purpose is to satisfy the inspector.

Or, as Brian has suggested, use a certified transformer.

Rich



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[PSES] Changes in Safety-Rated Capacitor Approval

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Experts,
We have recently been informed by a Y-capacitor supplier that a new version of 
IEC/EN60384-14 has been adopted, apparently about 2 years before expected, 
forcing their Y3 product to become unapproved, with no clear substitute. We are 
told that the 2005 version of the standard was to be withdrawn in April 2018, 
but has now been withdrawn early in July 2016.
I see no mention of either version of the standard in the Official Journal, and 
little notice on the "Google-web", so I must be looking in the wrong places. 
Can anybody in the group help to explain:

Who makes these decisions?
Where are technical decisions like this announced, and by which body?
Why would an accepted type of safety capacitor have been removed from an 
international standard?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Best Regards,
Brian C. III (The Third Brian)

________
Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.com<mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com>
Website: www.delta-q.com<http://www.delta-q.com>


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Re: [PSES] Reliable means to attach thermocouple to object

[Brian Ceresney]

Hi Scott, All, 
The tape tends to ensure that stresses on the thermocouple length won't lift 
the tip, working as a strain relief.
We typically use a high-temperature fibreglass tape, with rubber thermosetting 
adhesive. Once it bonds, it doesn't soften again under warm temperature. 

For the tip, we have previously used cyanoacrylate glue(thin formula), but 
recently at the request of regulatory agencies, we started using Loctite 384 
thermally conductive adhesive to seal the tip. Seems to work well. I advise 
using only a small amount, just enough  to cover the tip of  the thermocouple. 
Not easy to remove,  but we rarely reuse the tips anyways, preferring to 
re-weld them. 

Best Regards, 
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Phone: +1.604.566.8827   
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.com  
Website: www.delta-q.com 

Connect with Delta-Q Technologies Corp
  

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message.




-Original Message-
From: Scott Xe [mailto:scott...@gmail.com] 
Sent: February-26-16 8:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Reliable means to attach thermocouple to object

I used to attach thermocouple to the object under temperature rise test using 
Kapton tape.  Currently I looked at an SMPS that is operating at a temperature 
of 120 degC under an ambient temperature of 20 degC.  The tape seems not very 
reliable and rigid enough for long period of testing.  Is there any other more 
suitable means to attach the thermocouple to such high temperature point of 
interest?

The spec quotes the max temperature of 150 degC.  Is it normal for the 
rectifier to have such high operating temperature?

Thanks and regards,

Scott  

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Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for Korea

[Brian Ceresney]

Hi Gary,
I believe that we are discussing very different processes. Our industrial 
battery chargers fall under a compulsory category in Japan.
We started with a long detailed review of all of the equipment in the factory, 
leading to a factory inspection, and finally, full EMC emissions testing 
in-country.  The whole thing was very slow, and frustrating, with a lot of 
back-and -forth  discussion.

Technical  communication was not possible with technical staff due to language 
restraints. All  discussion was possible with administrative staff only, who 
passed the information to the engineers. Answers to questions were sent back 
through the administration staff, adding to delays.

Hmmm, do I sound unhappy?  ; )

Best Regards,
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

My own opions are represented here, not those of Delta-Q Technologies.


Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com
Website: www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com




From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: August-20-15 10:22 AM
To: Brian Ceresney bceres...@delta-q.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: EMC requirements for Korea

Brian
That has not been my experience in the past with Japan via VCCI. One joins with 
VCCI as an associate(?) or something and they will then take reports from you, 
but the labs VCCI registration numbers need to be included. I sent the data and 
really overnight I had notice that they received it and I was on my way. 
(presuming this was data within the last 6 months, nobody will take really old 
data of a year or more) While I found it annoying that I would have to pay to 
be part of a voluntary program I suppose they have to pay the data entry 
folks, I found the process smooth and seamless.
But it has been a few years, and we were talking about ITE equipment without 
intentional transmitters etc. So things may have morphed. Korean on the other 
hand - I just don't have anything nice to say about their process and test 
voltage restrictions.

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 9:43 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for Korea

Hi Rob,
With regards to your last statement - Japan also will retest EMC at their 
in-country lab, in spite of an accompanying EMC test report. I suspect that 
there are other such countries as well.

Also, be prepared for a long wait in Korea and Japan, while the testing is 
done, and results reported. It can take months, and the approvals are not 
inexpensive.

Best Regards,
Brian Ceresney



Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

My own opions are represented here, not those of Delta-Q Technologies.


Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com
Website: 
www.delta-q.comhttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.delta-2Dq.comd=AwMFAgc=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-wr=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0km=xKqw12rCEAP6ZgZwze9lyOKwD7_PaCRlDRA4v5AB3j4s=DWHHDX-JCo6B9UxUABv6Pay4ADTcH7CjtTY0pgkSExce=




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Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for Korea

[Brian Ceresney]

Hi Rob,
With regards to your last statement - Japan also will retest EMC at their 
in-country lab, in spite of an accompanying EMC test report. I suspect that 
there are other such countries as well.

Also, be prepared for a long wait in Korea and Japan, while the testing is 
done, and results reported. It can take months, and the approvals are not 
inexpensive.

Best Regards,
Brian Ceresney



Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

My own opions are represented here, not those of Delta-Q Technologies.


Phone: +1.604.566.8827
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com
Website: www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com





From: Robert Dunkerley [mailto:robert.dunker...@snellgroup.com]
Sent: August-20-15 8:19 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EMC requirements for Korea

Hi,

Has anyone had experience of the EMC requirements for selling goods to South 
Korea?

There is conflicting information online on what is actually required.  I always 
thought if you had CE and FCC covered, that would pretty much cover you for 
most of the world?

Thanks

Rob.

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Re: [PSES] CB Philosophy Questions

[Brian Ceresney]

Subject: [PSES] CB Philosophy Questions

Hello All,
Thanks to everyone who responded, especially for the sage advice.
Of the various facets of the Regulatory Compliance field, I find  that 
international approvals seem to be the most difficult.
Best Regards,
Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
Note: The comments here represent my opinions, not those of Delta-Q 
Technologies.
.


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[PSES] CB Philosophy Questions

[Brian Ceresney]

Greetings, Compliance Experts,

I'm finding myself in a curious situation, and wondering if you have had 
similar experiences, and may have some advice to share.
We are in the process of using a CB report for an industrial battery charger( 
to IEC60335-2-29) to obtain an in-country certification in an Asian country, 
and have run into an interesting difficulty.

When our CB report was issued, the engineer was not willing to add wording to 
the Critical Components list to allow alternate components(X, Y caps, 
opto-isolators) with equivalent ratings and  Regulatory Approvals to be added, 
with the implication being that this addition was not allowed by the 
authorities.

As expected, two years later, we are going through one country's approval 
process, using our CB report, and the national regulatory organization has 
decided that the use of a different brand of opto-isolator and X/Y capacitor is 
a non-compliance, as they are not specifically in the CB report. (The 
electrical, environmental ratings, and the regulatory approvals are equivalent 
to the original components).


a.)Are these attitudes typical  in the CB world?

b.)Can anybody explain the apparent reticence of CB testing labs to allow 
alternate components in a CB report?

c.) Is it likely that a National Body will eventually compromise, and use 
engineering judgement in accepting alternate components? Or is this usually a 
firm no?


The North American NRTL organizations are proactive in allowing equivalently 
rated and approved components to be sourced in a product, and frequently state 
this in their reports. IMHO, it seems a bit archaic to not account for 
second-sourcing of common off-the-shelf critical components such as these.


d.)Is there a philosophical or historical difference between the two 
systems(CB and NRTL) that accounts for this difference in approaches?

Thanks in advance for your attention- your response is appreciated.

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Phone: +1.604.566.8827
Note: The comments here represent my opinions, not those of Delta-Q 
Technologies.
.



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Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the non-professional

[Brian Ceresney]

Hmmm I was told that having an attitude was a pre-requisite for the 
position... ;  )
Brian C
604-566-8827
Delta-Q Technologies


-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
Sent: March-31-15 1:50 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for the 
non-professional

There appear to be some serious attitude cases subscribed to this forum. I am 
truly looking for primer type info for the non-engineer. Not trying to persuade 
recalcitrant mangers, just trying to round up some basic info on the subject.

Ken Javor
Phone: (256) 650-5261


 From: Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
 Reply-To: Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com
 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 20:31:27 +
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Conversation: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
 for the non-professional
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
 for the non-professional
 
 Mr. Nute,
 
 As this is probably for management, respectfully suggest that the 
 premier exposition for PHBs is none other than a reference to some 
 Wile E. Coyote videos. This is well within the MBA attention span and 
 their required level of understanding for product performance and conformity.
 
 Brian
 
 
 From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
 Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:57 PM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: Re: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements 
 for the non-professional
 
 Hi Ken:
 
 Oh, boy.  EMC and safety requirements are a cost without a sale.  That 
 is what a VP of marketing told me.   For the most part, management 
 would prefer to keep the costs at a minimum.
 
 EMC, ROHS, and safety requirements are rules that the products must 
 comply with in order to sell in various countries.
 
 1)  The requirements must be included in the design of the product.
 
 2)  Tests verify that the product complies with the requirements 
 and determine whether the product can bear certification marks.
 
 3)  Marks applied to the product attest to compliance with the 
 requirements.
 
 4)  For some countries, documents accompanying the product attest 
 to compliance with the requirements.
 
 5)  Some countries and certification houses require factory 
 inspection as a condition for marking the product.
 
 6)  Some certification houses require periodic factory surveillance.
 
 7)  The cost of compliance at our company is.  The number of 
 full-time employees in this activity is.
 
 I'm sure that you can amplify on any of these points if asked.
 
 
 Good luck, and best regards,
 Rich
 
 From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
 Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 10:39 AM
 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
 Subject: [PSES] Basic instruction in EMC and safety requirements for 
 the non-professional
 
 Can anyone out there suggest either some texts or urls covering the 
 subject matter for management at a higher level not interested in 
 details?  Especially as to impact on selling equipment outside a country's 
 own borders.
 
 Thank you,
 
 Ken Javor
 Phone: (256) 650-5261
 
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 emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your 
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 Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities 
 site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for 
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 unsubscribe)
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Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering

[Brian Ceresney]

I tend to disagree. 
For example, for a company who uses contract manufacturing, the Supply, 
Quality, and Manufacturing teams have a significant amount of responsibility 
for Safety, which can be quite separate from the Design team. 
The management must keep good control over all of the groups involved in the 
process, to ensure that safety is built-in to each and every product.
Best Regards, 
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Phone: +1.604.566.8827   
E-mail: bceres...@delta-q.com  

This is my own opinion, and does not reflect that of Delta-Q Technologies. 


Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
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message.




-Original Message-
From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: March-05-15 2:37 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering

 ... the management of the company has to own the safety of the 
 product. They control the
resources
 needed to ensure that the products are designed,
and
 manufactured to be safe.

Cop-out.

For every product, there is a development team.
The product safety engineer is a member of that team, overtly or not, and owns 
the safety of the product.


Best regards,
Rich

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Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering

[Brian Ceresney]

IMHO, the management of the company has  to  own the safety of the product. 
They control the resources needed to ensure that the products are designed, and 
manufactured to be safe. 
Best Regards, 
Brian C .

-Original Message-
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] 
Sent: March-05-15 10:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Safety standards versus safety engineering

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Re: [PSES] Estonian Standards MultiUser License

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello All,
My experiences with purchasing 2 copies of the Estonian standards are similar 
to those who have replied.

It’s very rare that another person is reading a standard at the same time as I 
am. As a matter of  fact, it is very difficult to get our engineers to take an 
interest in reading and understanding the standards at all, so it is very 
unlikely we’ll ever violate the copyright regulations.
Best Regards,
Brian C.



Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

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From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 10:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Estonian Standards MultiUser License

Please forgive me if this is a repeat.

Does anyone have experience buying Standards from Estonia using the MultiUser 
Licence? Do they still use FileOpen to control what computers can open the 
files like they do with a single user license or do they have a way of limiting 
how many different computers can open the files at one time?

I would like to put the standards files on our Intranet server so those in RD 
can reference then when needed.  We may have 20 engineers who may reference a 
standard it would be rare that more than 2 would ever open the files at the 
same time.

I’m trying to figure out how their MultiUser License system works so I can 
purchase the right number of users.

Does anyone have experience with this?

Is there a better solution or cheaper source for EN standards?

Regards,

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
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[PSES] FW: Curious Situation in Italian Customs

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello Compliance Experts,
 I really appreciated all of the feedback I received from you on this issue, 
and would like to thank all who shared thoughts and their similar headaches.

My response to this issue was to provide our customer with an email document 
which explains the European Compliance structure as I understand it, and 
explain that both our CB safety testing and EMC testing were done by accredited 
bodies. I also provided links to documentation demonstrating these facts.
I was clear in my email that having an agency sign a CE Declaration was Not 
On, and that the only one who can sign is the manufacturer(or his 
representative) who is responsible for the product.

I specifically asked that our customer provide my name, and all contact 
information to the customs officials, so that they would know that I and my 
employer stand behind the compliance products, and are willing to discuss the 
situation with customs at any time.

I'm told that the shipment in question was released on Mar 14, without any 
further discussion, additional forms, or any other inconvenience. 
Unfortunately,  our customer was delayed by 2 weeks, but I'm still satisfied 
with the outcome, as I know that it could have taken much longer.

Once again, thanks for your support, and information. It helps to know that we 
all run into similar situations, and successfully manage them.

Best Regards,
Brian C.
Regulatory Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
Phone 1.604.566.8827

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From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: March-03-14 11:12 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Curious Situation in Italian Customs

Dear Compliance Professionals,

We currently have a product compliance situation in Italy, which I thought you 
all might find interesting.

Our customer has had a shipment of our battery charger products held by 
customs, on the premise that our CE documentation is not acceptable. The 
documentation we have provided includes our Delta-Q CE Self-Declaration, dated 
and signed, along with our official CB Test Report, and our EMC Test Report, 
(both issued by accredited organizations).

Our customer has been informed by the Customs officials that a CE Declaration 
of Conformity MUST be issued by a European body, and repeatedly use TUV as an 
example. They refuse to accept  our corporate declaration, and seem interested 
in the fact that the products are manufactured in China by Delta-Q.

My response will be to carefully explain the requirements to my customer(and 
customs) in written form, include all of the accreditation information I can 
obtain for both testing labs, and hope that these officials will understand.

Has anybody else been in a similarly sticky situation?


Best Regards,
Brian C.
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

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message.


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[PSES] Curious Situation in Italian Customs

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Compliance Professionals,

We currently have a product compliance situation in Italy, which I thought you 
all might find interesting.

Our customer has had a shipment of our battery charger products held by 
customs, on the premise that our CE documentation is not acceptable. The 
documentation we have provided includes our Delta-Q CE Self-Declaration, dated 
and signed, along with our official CB Test Report, and our EMC Test Report, 
(both issued by accredited organizations).

Our customer has been informed by the Customs officials that a CE Declaration 
of Conformity MUST be issued by a European body, and repeatedly use TUV as an 
example. They refuse to accept  our corporate declaration, and seem interested 
in the fact that the products are manufactured in China by Delta-Q.

My response will be to carefully explain the requirements to my customer(and 
customs) in written form, include all of the accreditation information I can 
obtain for both testing labs, and hope that these officials will understand.

Has anybody else been in a similarly sticky situation?


Best Regards,
Brian C.
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.



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Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards

[Brian Ceresney]

My information is that the required Voltage is 220Vac, at 60Hz. We also are 
having to retest EMC for this purpose.
Best regards,
Brian C.
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: December-02-13 3:06 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards

So I have to ask, what is the voltage/freq in Korea? Is it that different 
compared to other countries?
I heard for Emissions they like 6db margin but will accept 3db. They do know 
that Measurement Uncertainty is (Plus or Minus), right?
The Other Brian

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: McInturff, Gary
Sent: 12/2/2013 5:39 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
I'll second that but replace should with MUST. Even when I know of the Korean 
requirement up front their voltage doesn't fit into the EU or US input voltage 
levels including plus/minus tolerances. So essentially the RF immunity gets 
runs twice once for the rational and once for the fuss-budgets. We also run EMI 
scans three times.

Gary

From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 1:52 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards

From personal experience,

CISPR and KN standards are very similar, but interpretations a little 
different. For example. Test should be done at Korean voltages and frequency. 
Korea likes to add the measurement uncertainty in the limits. Etc.

So usually we re-test our product in a KN accredited lab in Korea.


Sincerely,

Dieter Paasche

From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il]
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:24 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards

Hi,
Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 
?
Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and 
KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024?
Thanks for your help

Regards,
David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer
Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel
Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101
Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.ilmailto:e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il  
Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il/

Fill out Customer Satisfaction 
Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx
Global Certifications You Can Trust

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[PSES] Categorizing a new product

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Regulatory Wizards,
I've been asked to provide the regulatory scope for a product type which is new 
to me, and I'd appreciate if you could provide me with a sanity check. We are 
considering Safety and EMC for Europe only here, of course other 
Directives(RoHS 2, REACH, WEEE, etc.) will apply. A CB report may be considered 
for additional countries, as required.

The product is a small device which is intended to plug into the mains via a 
supply cord, and, in turn, provides a socket for another piece of mains 
operated equipment.
The function of the device is to pass mains power through, and provide under- 
and over-Voltage protection by disconnecting the mains under extreme 
conditions(using a relay). It automatically re-connects the mains when Voltage 
returns to the normal range. It may also provide some surge protection. This 
device will be intended for use with small industrial appliances with input 
ratings of 100-250V, 50/60Hz, drawing maximum normal currents of less than 12A.
This device is designed to prevent damage to the attached product only, the 
product itself is compliant with current standards for Europe and North America.

Using my friend Google(thanks Brian O.), I've arrived at two European safety 
standards which seem applicable:

EN 60255-27 :2005 Measuring relays and protection equipment - Part 27: Product 
safety requirements
EN 50550-2011 Power frequency overvoltage protective device for household and 
similar applications (POP)
Additionally,

-plugs and sockets will comply with EN 60320-1.

-if not specified within these standards, spacings will comply with 
EN60664-1.

For EMC immunity and emissions:
EN 61326-1:2006 Electrical equipment for measurement, control and laboratory 
use - EMC requirements - Part 1: General requirements

Please provide your comments. Am I missing anything? If not, I'll purchase my 
standards, and begin the process.
Thanks for your help.
Best Regards,
Brian C.
(The other, other Brian)








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Re: [PSES] RTTE

[Brian Ceresney]

Hi Mark,
We had a similar occurrence lately, where the Korean EMC lab tested our Class A 
Industrial product to ITE standards, and we failed Class B. We had previously 
submitted to them our EMC test report for North America and Europe, so the 
mistake was unexpected.

They retested to Class A at our request(at no charge that was visible to us), 
and we then passed the correct requirement.

Best Regards,
Brian C.


From: Mark Schmidt [mailto:mark.schm...@dornerworks.com]
Sent: November-14-13 7:33 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RTTE

Well, I have a Class A (EN55011) product under EN61326-1. Initially it was not 
going to be sold adopted EN301489-1 the KN version of this standard omitted 
the clause in Annex C.3.1.  So we had the device tested in-country and they 
indicated that the unintentional radiator had to meet Class B EN55022/CISPR 22 
for ITE with 6 db margin. Naturally we failed. This is not an ITE product and 
was not designed to meet Class B any comments are appreciated.
Has anyone else experienced this?

Thanks,
Mark Schmidt



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Re: [PSES] UV aging

[Brian Ceresney]

I was involved in something similar a few years ago, and purchased SAEJ2527 
Performance Based Standard for Accelerated Exposure of Automotive Exterior 
Materials Using A Controlled Irradiance Xenon-Arc Apparatus. 
It contains a few hints for testing, but is not very informative.  I eventually 
found a test lab who was knowledgeable, and relied on their experience to get 
us through. We rarely have to perform this type of testing. 

I'd be glad to discuss off-line. 
Best Regards, 
Brian C.
 

From: McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 7:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] UV aging

Anybody know anything about UV aging for paints? I've looked over a couple of 
standards and see at least one that purports 1,000 hours of test time under 
Xenon lamps (I believe) is roughly 1 year in the Florida sun, but more 
specifically I'm looking at the damage curve or something similar - if it 
exists. Is most of the damage done in the first few days and then it goes 
asymptotic like a capacitor discharge curve, or linear etc. 
The main trouble with standards is that you have to buy them before you know 
what's in them so I'm trying to zoom in a little before paying out the cash.
Standard scopes sometimes give a good idea what to expect some do not.
I know this isn't a EMC kind of thing - but we work around and with a lot of 
different equipment and equipment requirements so I thought I would take a 
chance here. 
Thank you

Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer

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Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH AP

[Brian Ceresney]

I'm also interested in this type of recorder. Please include me in any 
responses.  
Brian C.


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Kunde, Brian
Sent: May-31-13 1:09 PM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH  AP

I'm in the market for a good reasonably priced Temp/%RH/AP meter/recorder 
device which I can easily and directly read from my computer with Labview. Any 
suggested brands and model numbers?

I want to read the values directly so programming command information is a 
must. SCPI, Ethernet, Serial, etc..

Any suggestions?

The Other Brian



-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:56 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH  AP

This is a good example for 'lets just get it done now' where the staff does no 
work other than mounting on wall.

There are some long-term problems with this class of stuff.
What ya gonna do when your last XP/7 box dies?
Can I suck data out of it and/or calibrate without proprietary software?
Modularity = long-term support.

My policy for all lab equipment has served me well for several years, is if no 
SCPI, then it had better be readable ASCII, and all commands part of user 
instructions. IVI is even better.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: Boštjan Glavič [mailto:bostjan.gla...@siq.si]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 11:13 AM
To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] recording Temp, % RH  AP

Dear Julias,

I believe it is enough to measure pressure in one location only. So you can 
save some money on calibration

We are using omega dataloger in every room. It can store data up to 1 month 
without the problem and batteries are ok for 6 months.

See below link.

Best regards,
Bostjan

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OM-CP-PRHTEMP2000Nav=tems08



On 28. maj 2013, at 18:42, Brian Oconnell
oconne...@tamuracorp.commailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com wrote:

Measurement and recording of ambient conditions (temperature, RH, and 
atmospheric pressure) are and instrumentation and HVAC-control issue. Made more 
complex for larger labs and/or multiple equipment installed that emit 
significant amounts of heated/humidified air.

There is, of course, the most basic solution of mounting those circular chart 
recorders about the lab.

My solution has been to measure and record where the HVAC-control head is 
located, and measure/record at the EUT. The other important variables are the 
placement of the HVAC sensors, placement of exhaust ports, and control of 
heating/cooling air flow.

Data logging is not complex - use decent sensors and an old PC-box or 
seldom-used server. This will become a legacy system - think very long-term 
support, so use very simple code (ANSI C or Python) that just streams the data 
to a CSV file. I recently helped a colleague develop a logging system where 
each sensor station run by a local microcontroller that dumps data on command 
via a RS422 current-loop.

The remaining issue, for ISO17025 stuff, is calibration. Design modular sensor 
heads that can be detached and sent to cal lab, or buy sensor stuff intended 
for that purpose.

And if you buy American sensors, you may have to run the data through Google 
Translate to get British data.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
[mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Julian Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 7:54 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: recording Temp, % RH  AP

I am interested in how people record the local lab environmental conditions.
When we only had one test area it was easy. Has anyone got an automated logging 
to a database system working that they can recommend ?

The fall back would be to buy several discrete meters and have one per area, 
but then there is the usual error between cheap units.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Julian Jones
Hursley EMC Services
Tel:   023 8027 
Mob: 07787 523 607
julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.ukmailto:julian.jo...@hursley-emc.co.uk
Trafalgar House, Trafalgar Close, Chandlers Ford EASTLEIGH, Hampshire, SO53 4BW 
Company Registration 3301279

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[PSES] Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Regulatory Experts,
I'm searching for a standard or guideline which will provide detailed 
information about the internal grounding and bonding of products, and I've had 
limited luck in finding anything suiting my purpose. Reviewing a few CSA and UL 
standards hasn't been helpful.

Specifically, I am interested in Class I plug and cord connected products, 
which require the internal grounding wire to be secured to a metal, non-current 
carrying enclosure. I need to know what kinds of screw/nut/washer combinations 
are acceptable, mainly from a North American viewpoint, but not excluding 
Europe.(As usual, I'm working with small industrial-type battery chargers 
drawing less than 12A at 120V, 6A at 240V).

I'm particularly interested in requirements/acceptability of thread-cutting or 
-forming screws, with or without locking washers. I'm wondering about their 
securement performance over time.

The standards I've reviewed so far seem to be very non-specific about 
requirements, while specifying some testing. Are there any documents out there 
that are more detailed?

Thanks in Advance,
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com/
bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com


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message.





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Re: [PSES] Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are not permanently installed

[Brian Ceresney]

Thanks for your help, Brian. 
Unfortunately my two equipment standards are not very detailed, this product 
has no  UL file yet, and my(out of date)copy of CSA 0.4 doesn't add much. Time 
to buy more standards!

Could you explain the CSA design manual to me? I have never heard of a design 
manual before, and didn't see it on the CSA site. Is it available only for 
specific standards?  

Best Regards, 
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.com
bceres...@delta-q.com


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message.







-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:31 PM
To: Brian Ceresney; 'EMC-PSTC'
Subject: RE: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which 
are not permanently installed

Do not know why bonding materials/construction would not be in the scoped 
safety standard. My typical refs for reliable bonding construction 
requirements/suggestions are:
1. scoped safety standard for the equipment and/or end-use installation.
2. CSA design manual for the scoped standard(s).
3. Section General and/or Inspection Procedures of the affected UL file.
4. CSA No. 0.4
5. NEC article 250 (mostly wiring, but other hardware discussed)

There has to be 10E3 references for this stuff.

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian Ceresney
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 3:59 PM
To: 'EMC-PSTC'
Subject: Standard or practical guide to grounding electrical products which are 
not permanently installed

Dear Regulatory Experts, 
I'm searching for a standard or guideline which will provide detailed 
information about the internal grounding and bonding of products, and I've had 
limited luck in finding anything suiting my purpose. Reviewing a few CSA and UL 
standards hasn't been helpful.  
 
Specifically, I am interested in Class I plug and cord connected products, 
which require the internal grounding wire to be secured to a metal, non-current 
carrying enclosure. I need to know what kinds of screw/nut/washer combinations 
are acceptable, mainly from a North American viewpoint, but not excluding 
Europe.(As usual, I'm working with small industrial-type battery chargers 
drawing less than 12A at 120V, 6A at 240V). 
  
I'm particularly interested in requirements/acceptability of thread-cutting or 
-forming screws, with or without locking washers. I'm wondering about their 
securement performance over time.
 
The standards I've reviewed so far seem to be very non-specific about 
requirements, while specifying some testing. Are there any documents out there 
that are more detailed? 
 
Thanks in Advance,  
Brian C. 
 
Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.com
bceres...@delta-q.com

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Re: [PSES] CE Marking Provoqium

[Brian Ceresney]

To add to the discussion, I believe that in 2009, the Province of Ontario, 
Canada intended to initiate a program forcing manufacturing electrical products 
to register with the Province, for a yearly fee. This was in addition to the 
third-party approvals held by most products. The program seemed to evaporate 
before implementation. 
IIRC, they were concerned with the number of non-approved and unsafe products 
that were being seen in the marketplace. This seems to indicate that the 
current system is not as effective as they would like in promoting the safety 
of products. Current surveillance budgets may not be adequate to catch these 
questionable products.

 
Best Regards, 
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.com
bceres...@delta-q.com


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message.





-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Knudsen, 
Patricia
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 12:02 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] CE Marking Provoqium

Could a self-declaration 'system' function well in North America without 
public safety reduction? For just discrete, narrow classes of goods?

You would probably see an initial increase in non-compliant products.  However, 
this being the U.S., that would correspond to an increase in lawsuits against 
the manufacturers.


Patty Knudsen
Product Safety Engineering
17095 Via del Campo
San Diego, CA  92127
858-485-3748

Teradata Labs
patricia.knud...@teradata.com
teradata.com
Facebook


-Original Message-
From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 1:03 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Marking Provoqium

Significance of CE mark to EU customs/surveillance is obvious and not point 
(other than my head). Need to understand why there are different or no 
surveillance systems in place in North America, and if product compliance 
regulations are different because of regional market demands or political 
control issues or cultural philosophies.

Could a self-declaration 'system' function well in North America without public 
safety reduction? For just discrete, narrow classes of goods?

Brian

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2012 10:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] CE Marking Provoqium

In message 1284c8ec9fbe4d24b6397106a3caa...@tamuracorp.com, dated Sat,
18 Aug 2012, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes:

 Note that the U.S. OSHA has (figuratively) declared war on the 
self-declaration process, and has specifically published stuff saying 
that the 'CE' does not indicate the any specific safety compliance.

Well, it doesn't; it's not intended to. Nor did any of the former national 
safety marks, such as SEMKO. The Declaration of Conformity indicates the 
specific safety compliance.

The CE mark is an indication to customs officers and market surveillance 
officers that a DoC exists and the product should be admitted to the EU, cross 
national borders within it and can be offered for sale.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk

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http

Re: [PSES] Insulative barriers deposited on metal surfaces

[Brian Ceresney]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my query, this has been a fascinating 
discussion. Further comments are welcome.

There have been some great suggestions and observations, all of which helped to 
reassure me that I am not crazy to be considering this concept. Nice to know 
that many of us are interested in this, however, I can see that there is still 
a lot work and investment to be made before this type of coating is a 
regulatory reality.
I've worked with conductive coatings, and conformal coatings successfully in 
the past, so I am familiar with those processes, and I can see the similarity 
in proving compliance.
Moving forward, I'll be researching insulation that is used in cartridge 
heaters, and alumina spooge, and (as suggested by my brother Brian), peanut 
butter(Crunchy, natural, probably no-salt).

Best Regards,

Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com/
bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com


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Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Brian Ceresney
Verzonden: woensdag 18 juli 2012 0:03
Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Onderwerp: Insulative barriers deposited on metal surfaces

Hello Compliance Experts,
I'm interested in the use of a high temperature insulator, possibly a ceramic, 
which would be deposited inside a cast aluminum electrical enclosure.
The aim would be to be able to have the product pass safety approvals using 
this layer as a barrier against electric shock. This layer would help to reduce 
the large distances required from live parts to  conductive enclosure, 
especially in North America.
I'm aware of a variety of processes which can provide electrical isolation, but 
I haven't seen them used in  products having safety approvals. The people who 
own these processes don't seem to be interested in using them as insulation in 
products.
Has anyone seen this type of approach used successfully, or had success in a 
similar situation? Any pros or cons you can pass along?
Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Best Regards,

Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com/
bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com


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contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.




-


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Re: [PSES] Insulative barriers deposited on metal surfaces

[Brian Ceresney]

The standards we are typically working with are UL1564, CSA 107.2, and UL2202, 
however many of the older North American standards have comparatively large 
distances between live parts and enclosure.
These locations are specifically not allowed the easements found in UL840, and 
instead, the distances must be met, or barriers may be used.
Regards,
Brian C.


From: IBM Ken [mailto:ibm...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:50 PM
To: Brian Ceresney
Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Insulative barriers deposited on metal surfaces

It might be helpful for the discussion to know the Standard that applies to the 
component you are certifying.

-Ken




On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:03 PM, Brian Ceresney 
bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com wrote:
Hello Compliance Experts,
I'm interested in the use of a high temperature insulator, possibly a ceramic, 
which would be deposited inside a cast aluminum electrical enclosure.
The aim would be to be able to have the product pass safety approvals using 
this layer as a barrier against electric shock. This layer would help to reduce 
the large distances required from live parts to  conductive enclosure, 
especially in North America.
I'm aware of a variety of processes which can provide electrical isolation, but 
I haven't seen them used in  products having safety approvals. The people who 
own these processes don't seem to be interested in using them as insulation in 
products.
Has anyone seen this type of approach used successfully, or had success in a 
similar situation? Any pros or cons you can pass along?
Thanks in advance for your consideration.

Best Regards,

Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827tel:604-566-8827
www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com/
bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com


Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
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Re: [PSES] OSHA - NRTL audit question

[Brian Ceresney]

In the 1980s, I believe MSHA(Mine Safety and Health Association)performed our 
NRTL audits on behalf of OSHA. 
I guess that makes me old. 
Brian C.

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Tyra, John
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 11:30 AM
To: 'oconne...@tamuracorp.com'; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: OSHA - NRTL audit question

When I was at TUV the OSHA auditors for our NRTL accreditation were actually 
from the Department of Mines if I remember correctly but maybe it has changed 
in the last 12years?

For our CB accreditation CENELC did use auditors from other notified bodies 
like CSA and VDE.

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:55 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: OSHA - NRTL audit question

Was at an NRTL/CAB site yesterday. Noted a small group lurking - assessment
engineer said they were part of an OSHA audit team. I recognized one member
of the audit team from another NRTL down the road.

Does the U.S. OSHA use NRTLs to audit each other?

Brian

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[PSES] Korean appliance approvals

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Experts,
I'm preparing an battery charger appliance product for eventual approvals in 
Korea, for the first time after the Jan 2012 Korean regulatory changes. We are 
obtaining a CB Test Report, and will utilize that document to apply for Korean 
approvals.
I have heard information from a supplier that is contradictory to my 
understanding, but I'm having a difficult time confirming it.
Our product has a mains input cable assembly that is approved by one of the 
ENEC group, to EN60320-2-2-1998. This is the correct version of the standard 
according to the OJ standards list, which also notes IEC EN60320-2-2-1998 as 
equivalent.  In my experience, Korea has required approval to the IEC standard, 
by an accredited European test lab.

Our supplier is stating that Korean authorities will not accept approval to an 
IEC standard for this component, and will only accept specific Korean approval. 
Can anybody who has been involved with the 2012 Korean approvals process 
provide any feedback on this?
Additionally, are approvals in Korea still performed one model at a time, 
regardless of how many models are included in a CB report?

Are there any other new details that can delay or prevent an approval?

Any help is much appreciated.
Best Regards,
Brian C.



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Re: [PSES] Korean appliance approvals

[Brian Ceresney]

Thanks everyone, for your reponses. I realize that I accidentally created a new 
IEC EN standard typographically(oops). 

The results I've received so far are that Korea insists upon Korean approvals, 
even if the Korean and IEC or EN standards are identical. 

Thanks again for your comments. 
Best Regards, 
Brian C.
(My other brother Brian)

-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:17 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Korean appliance approvals

In message 
A77B72CD6A838945868172207F84AD5C1486742D@mbx027-w1-ca-7.exch027.domain.l
ocal, dated Wed, 13 Jun 2012, Brian Ceresney bceres...@delta-q.com 
writes:

Our product has a mains input cable assembly that is approved by one of 
the ENEC group, to EN60320-2-2-1998. This is the correct version of the 
standard according to the OJ standards list, which also notes IEC 
EN60320-2-2-1998 as equivalent.  

Since these approvals agencies can be very pedantic, I should point out 
that the IEC standard is IEC 60320-2-2, without 'EN'.

IEC 60320-2-2 ed2.0 (1998-08)
TC/SC 23G

Appliance couplers for household and similar general purposes - Part 
2-2: Interconnection couplers for household and similar equipment

You can see that this standard applies to the appliance coupler ONLY, 
not the cable and any mains plug that may be on the other end.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
Instead of saying that the government is doing too little, too late or too
much, too early, say they've got is exactly right, thus throwing them into
total confusion.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world

[Brian Ceresney]

I agree that many standards costs are hugely inflated. I recently received a 
quote for the latest EN60950-1 in network copy, and almost fell off of my 
chair! The cost was 4637 BP! Luckily, this cost included my international 
discount of 50%  ; )
Best Regards,

Brian C.

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com/
bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com


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From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:08 AM
To: 'Derek Walton'
Cc: 'don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com'; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world

Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one 
source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other 
legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my 
daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can 
even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. 
So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards.

As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the 
reason I buy from legitimate sources.

Gary

From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM
To: McInturff, Gary
Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world

Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices

We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre

MHO

Derek

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary 
gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote:
Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI

Gary

From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.orghttp://e-standard.org The cheapest 
standards in the world

Ahoy, me hearties!

My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, 
and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own 
site.  This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s 
occupied by pirates.

Ex.:   UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422?
BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to 
non-members?


DON GIES
ALCATEL-LUCENT
SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER
BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY
600-700 Mountain Avenue
Room 5B-104
Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA
Phone: +1 908 582 5978
Fax: +1 908 582 0582
don.g...@alcatel-lucent.commailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com
MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY

From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: e-standard.orghttp://e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the 
world

Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor.

Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if 
it’s too good to be true” warning systems.

Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor

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Re: [PSES] Circuit breakers in Europe

[Brian Ceresney]

That is the way I learned it, too, back in the day.
Regards, 
Brian Ceresney 


-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Peter Tarver
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 2:12 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Circuit breakers in Europe

 From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com]
 Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 08:36

 Not certain what OP is attempting, as wire gage is
 dependent on the fault
 calc found in electric code, and breaker rating is
 related to the distribution.

In North America, barring circumstances requiring deeper engineering
calculations and supervision, a circuit sized for and protected by a 20 A
breaker cannot carry long continuous currents larger than 16 A.

My preexisting notion (for lack of better understanding) for Europe has
been that a 16 A breaker is used to protect a 16 A circuit.  (The 80%
Rule or a similar rule does not apply in Europe and overcurrent
protection is generally matched to the circuit size.)

I'm looking for either confirmation of or contradiction of that notion.
So far, one vote received confirming.


Regards,

Peter L. Tarver


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Re: [PSES] Mandatory NRTL certification

[Brian Ceresney]

There is also the chance that the very expensive one-off piece equipment may be 
damaged by the testing and disassembly it is subjected to in a field 
inspection. Extra cost, time, and unsatisfied customer... 

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Regulatory Team Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Ave.,
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5G 3H3
Tel: 604-566-8827
www.delta-q.com
bceres...@delta-q.com


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-Original Message-
From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 11:41 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: Mandatory NRTL certification

In message 
e9c52f9e77c43c49a56a22691b3680be229...@tk5ex14mbxc301.redmond.corp.micro
soft.com, dated Fri, 6 Jan 2012, Ted Eckert ted.eck...@microsoft.com 
writes:

I?ve worked with low-volume and custom built-in equipment, and I would 
recommend against having a field evaluation done by the AHJ. It is an 
option, but it can be a very risky option.

I have also been advised of that by US colleagues. If the AHJ doesn't 
like your choice of necktie...
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of
biting a rook.

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Mains power cables with North American and European Approvals

[Brian Ceresney]

Greetings All, 

After searching numerous websites, and enduring countless blank stares from
possible suppliers….

I am trying to find 3 conductor power cord that is rated 105C, 250V,
14Awg(1.5^2), SJ Type or equivalent, with UL/CSA Approvals as well as
approval(HAR?) by one of the European safety organizations, with little luck.
Are these approvals mutually exclusive? Or just rarely needed, because country
specific cords/connectors are required in the final application?

Your comments are much appreciated.

 

Best Regards, 

 

Brian Ceresney, CTech.

Test and Regulatory Team Lead,

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Unit 3 - 5250 Grimmer Street

Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5H 2H2

Tel: 604-327-8244 Ext.112

Fax: 604-327-8246

Cell:  778-839-9765

www.delta-q.com

bceres...@delta-q.com mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com 

 

 

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CE-Standards method of Compliance for Battery

[Brian Ceresney]

Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I will research them all, in order to
figure out my best course of action. Any further comments are welcome. 

 

Best Regards, 

 

Brian Ceresney, CTech.

Test and Regulatory Team Lead,

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

Unit 3 - 5250 Grimmer Street

Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5H 2H2

Tel: 604-327-8244 Ext.112

Fax: 604-327-8246

Cell:  778-839-9765

www.delta-q.com

bceres...@delta-q.com mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com 

 

 

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CE-Standards method of Compliance for Battery Chargers

[Brian Ceresney]

Previously posted on the IEEE/PSTC Forum Board:

CE-Standards Compliance for Battery Chargers
Posted: Dec 30, 2008  2:53 PM 7 views

Season's Greetings to All,

Our company manufactures industrial battery chargers that are used for EVs, 
various types of mobile work platforms, golf carts, and personnel movers. They 
operate at universal ac input voltages, and charge batteries at output voltages 
that range from 24V to 96V, depending upon the final application. They can be 
'built-in to machines, or mounted to structures for off-board use( charged 
by plugging the dc output into the machine).  We currently have third party 
approvals to the US and Canadian standards for Industrial Battery chargers, and 
EV Battery Chargers on these products as components, and stand alone products, 
depending upon the output configuration.
We are in the process of being tested by a European CB Body to EN60335-2-29, 
(referencing  EN60335-1)with the intent of using the report to self-declare and 
CE mark the product for compliance with the LVD. Our CB Body informs us that we 
are not entitled to a CB Report, solely because our output voltages exceed the 
scope allowed by EN60335-2-29. They are only willing to provide a test and 
evaluation report, which may be of questionable value to us later when we 
intend to have further country specific approvals performed. Our CB Body has 
offered no alternative route to this, and argue against any alternate approach 
using the Standards Route.
Another CB Body has suggested that we declare the product to EN60335-1, using 
EN60335-2-29 as a guide for specific testing and evaluation, issuing a CB 
Report listing both standards, noting the exception in output voltages. I would 
appreciate the opinions of the group as to whether this approach is valid by 
the Standards Route to compliance, or whether it is only a loophole that 
circumvents the intent of the European compliance process. Can you direct me to 
the specific guidelines or legislation that contain chapter and verse about the 
process?
Is our only alternative to use a Notified Body for declaration to the Essential 
Requirements?
 Any comments you may have offering guidance are much appreciated.

Best Regards,

Brian Ceresney, CTech.
Test and Regulatory Lead,
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
Unit 3 - 5250 Grimmer Street
Burnaby, BC  Canada  V5H 2H2
Tel: 604-327-8244 Ext.112
bceres...@delta-q.com



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EN60335-1:2002

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello all:
I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

Can anyone advise me as to when the latest version of this standard will be
published in the O.J.? 

Thanks in advance,

Brian Ceresney 
Regulatory Technologist 
Engineering 
Xantrex Technology Inc. 
Email: brian.ceres...@xantrex.com 
Website: www.xantrex.com 
t: 604/422.2549 
f: 604/420.1591
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