Re: [PSES] Anteroom needed for testing?
One problem I have noticed is the direct coupling of noise in to the EMI Receiver cable. This could be either Wi-Fi or any other noise burst due to some other testing being done in the same test lab. Closing the anteroom door often eliminates this. I have been to a couple of labs at our customers' site, where I was asked to deposit the cell phone / pager before I could enter the chamber. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani Western Digital(r) 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119 ravinder.ajm...@wdc.com www.wdc.com<http://www.wdc.com> Always Do Right. This Will Gratify Some People and Astonish the Rest<http://lifehacker.com/always-do-right-this-will-gratify-some-people-and-ast-1300779343> Mark Twain From: Schaefer, David [mailto:dschae...@tuvam.com] Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 7:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Anteroom needed for testing? All, We've been having a spirited internal discussion on the use of or need to have anterooms when testing for RF susceptibility and emissions. It seems like chamber manufacturers are moving away from them, and some engineers I've talked to also aren't seeing the need for their use. We recently built a lab in Florida, and they don't have any anterooms. At my lab, we have customers that have to run cable through the bulkhead to monitor their equipment. We've seen radio, television, and other signals brought straight into the chamber, which was eliminated by closing the anteroom door. So I'm asking - what are your experiences? How do you eliminate potential noise sources? Is everyone just moving to using fiber, including manufacturers coming to commercial labs for testing? Are there any standards, technical reports, or white papers I should read? Thanks, David - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> Western Digital Corporation (and its subsidiaries) E-mail Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of WDC and/or its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] IT Products shipping to EV After March 2, 2017
Hi Experts, I vaguely remember this being answered recently, but can't recall the response. We have a bunch of IT products previously tested under EN 55022 and EN 55024. If these are still being shipped to EU then do we need to retest them to EN55032 and EN55035 after March 2, 2017. Thanks for your help. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani Western Digital(r) 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119 ravinder.ajm...@wdc.com www.wdc.com<http://www.wdc.com> Always Do Right. This Will Gratify Some People and Astonish the Rest<http://lifehacker.com/always-do-right-this-will-gratify-some-people-and-ast-1300779343> Mark Twain Western Digital Corporation (and its subsidiaries) E-mail Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of WDC and/or its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US
Also a number of us would be without jobs. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani Western Digital® 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119 ravinder.ajm...@wdc.com www.wdc.com<http://www.wdc.com> Always Do Right. This Will Gratify Some People and Astonish the Rest<http://lifehacker.com/always-do-right-this-will-gratify-some-people-and-ast-1300779343> …. Mark Twain From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 12:32 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US That's what makes EMC so fascinating. If it were easy and predictable, how boring it would be. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2016 8:01 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US I have several clients who’ve provided equipment that is used within UK/EU passenger airports and none had to meet any special EMC requirements for immunity. In fact, one product had more radiated immunity trouble in the EMC lab than it did in the field trial at the airport ☺ Radio transmitters operating in certain bands do have to meet strict emissions requirements to prevent blocking of radar receivers, which is a kind of reverse problem.. Regards Charlie From: john Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: 26 October 2016 22:54 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US Oh, and on a different tack, one might also want to enquire of the airport operators as to whether they have any special EMC-related requirements for stuff installed on their sites – not “regulatory” but might be “risk-related” based on their past experiences? John E Allen W.London, UK From: Chuck August-McDowell [mailto:chu...@meyersound.com] Sent: 26 October 2016 21:29 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US is there any other regulatory requirements/standards for an ITE kiosk to be installed in the airport terminals… How about a NRTL Listed mark? Chuck McDowell Compliance Specialist Meyer Sound Laboratories Inc. Direct: 510-540-4670 From: John Allen [mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:17 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US And there will be a lot of other fixed and mobile comms at various frequencies at any large US airport, and so I would look much wider than at just the radar frequency bands. John E Allen W.London, UK From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] Sent: 26 October 2016 19:53 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US Maybe, but in any case I would look at immunity to frequencies used by airport radar. With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk<http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/> J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England Sylvae in aeternum manent. From: Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 7:12 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] ITE Kiosk Installed in the Airport Terminals in the US Dear Members, Other than FCC Part 15 Subpart B, is there any other regulatory requirements/standards for an ITE kiosk to be installed in the airport terminals? Thank you very much! Best regards, Grace Lin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bach
Re: [PSES] IEEE Elections and Constitution
After reading the Rebuttal, I too voted "No" on the proposal. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital Corporation brand ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119 www.hgst.com From: Bill Lawrence [mailto:wlawr...@capecod.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:53 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] IEEE Elections and Constitution Voted "No" as well. Bill Lawrence From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 4:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] IEEE Elections and Constitution I have already voted "no" for the amendment. The proposed amendment and rebuttals are: http://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/election/amendment.pdf The rebuttals are worth reading. They convinced me to vote "no." Best regards, Richard Nute Life Fellow, PSES IEEE Bend, Oregon, USA ps: The BoD hired (with our dues) external "experts" to agree with them. Kinda like the attorney who will do whatever it takes to make his client happy whether or not it is "right." From: Schaefer, David [mailto:dschae...@tuvam.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 12:59 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG<mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [PSES] IEEE Elections and Constitution All, I'm sure you all have been receiving emails from the IEEE about the upcoming elections and vote on the constitutional amendment. A link is below about it. http://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/election/2016_constitutional_amendment.html I'd like to ask the people here their opinions about it. It's a major change in the structure of the IEEE. My opinion are below. I think there has been electioneering happening in favor of the proposal, and the consolidation of power in the BoD could eliminate checks on their ability to do as they wish. With this change it looks like the BoD approves candidates that would be elected to the board, thereby letting them choose their own membership with much less input from the societies and regions. So now a list of candidates would be published, and as few members have the time or ability to become familiar with these candidates, they will be rubber stamped. As the Board also controls the budget and bylaws, I see the elimination of checks on their power as a major problem. I also see too much corporate weasel words in the rebuttals to the objections that have been raised. For example: The proposal increases flexibility and agility in a complex and rapidly-changing world while providing for a governance structure that increases the members' voice in governing IEEE. The Board has taken considerable time and effort to review viable alternatives, including a review by external non-profit governance experts that concluded the risk of not changing was greater than under these changes. The Board identified these changes for the members' consideration as the most appropriate mechanism to achieve its strategic goals. Draft Bylaws, necessary to comply with changes in the Amendment if it is approved, are available on the Amendment webpage. To me this reads as 'we want to change, and consultants we hired agreed with us'. It didn't address the opposition statement. That does not give me confidence in their sincere desire to improve IEEE instead of just making changes they wish to see. David Schaefer EMC Chief Technical Advisor TÜV SÜD America Inc Office: 651 638 0251 Cell: 612 578 6038 Fax: 651 638 0285 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>> All
Re: [PSES] EMC Compliance for various countries
Hi Rodney, I am sorry I should have made it clear in my first post. The equipment is ITE, and our current process covers all the countries listed in my initial post. I would like to kow if we cover the requirements of other countries, except for the report requirements. Thanks. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani From: Rodney Davis [mailto:rodneydavis...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2016 4:04 PM To: Ravinder Ajmani <ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com> Cc: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Compliance for various countries It would depend on the type / category of the equipment. Australia and New Zealand will likely require in country representation and listing on the national database but the first question is it radio, telecom,ITE?? On Friday, July 1, 2016, Ravinder Ajmani <ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com<mailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com>> wrote: > Hi Experts, > > > > One of our customers has sent us a list of all the countries, and wants us to > indicate our product’s compliance against each of them. Our product testing > specifically covers the following: > > > > · US and Canada > > · EU > > · Australia / New Zealand > > · Japan > > · Taiwan > > · South Korea > > > > My assumption is that testing to these countries’ requirements should > technically cover the requirements of most , if not all the countries. > However some countries may have unique reporting requirements, while others > may accept the standard report. > > > > I will appreciate your opinions on this. > > > > Thanks a lot. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Ravinder Ajmani > > HGST, a Western Digital Corporation brand > > ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com<mailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com> > > Western Digital Corporation (and its subsidiaries) E-mail Confidentiality > Notice & Disclaimer: > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or > legally privileged information of WDC and/or its affiliates, and are intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. > If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. > If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > emc-p...@ieee.org<mailto:lt%3bemc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org<mailto:lt%3bsdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org<mailto:lt%3bmcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org<mailto:lt%3bj.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald dhe...@gmail.com<mailto:lt%3bdhe...@gmail.com> Western Digital Corporation (and its subsidiaries) E-mail Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of WDC and/or its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] EMC Compliance for various countries
Hi Experts, One of our customers has sent us a list of all the countries, and wants us to indicate our product's compliance against each of them. Our product testing specifically covers the following: * US and Canada * EU * Australia / New Zealand * Japan * Taiwan * South Korea My assumption is that testing to these countries' requirements should technically cover the requirements of most , if not all the countries. However some countries may have unique reporting requirements, while others may accept the standard report. I will appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks a lot. Regards, Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital Corporation brand ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Western Digital Corporation (and its subsidiaries) E-mail Confidentiality Notice & Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of WDC and/or its affiliates, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question
Pardon my skepticism, but I have very little faith on the US industries self-enforcing any kind of regulations. When Wall Street analysts expect public companies to show higher profits quarter after quarter, lowering the cost becomes the key driver. However most US companies ship their products overseas, and almost all of these countries have some form of immunity requirements, similar to the EU regulations. Hence one can assume that the products built in US are designed to meet these requirements. The sad thing is that in until the eighties US was leading the world on EMC requirements, but now has fallen behind. My personal view. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com 5601 Great Oaks Parkway San Jose, CA 95119 www.hgst.com -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:16 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question Well not really John - ANSI has no regulatory authority but money does. A business isn't likely to simply add either NRE cost or cost per unit without justification - poor product performance, competitive advantage, regulation. Poor performance isn't even a clean definition - if I have one failure out of 10,000 because of ESD for example - just ship them another one etc. My personal opinion is that proper operation in the field is as important as any other functional specification but whether it's done through self-enforcement or governmental regulation is a thorny question. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 11:38 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question In message <009601d0ef5d$3dc51eb0$b94f5c10$@cox.net>, dated Mon, 14 Sep 2015, Ed Price <edpr...@cox.net> writes: >True, the FCC is essentially still following the Communications Act of >1934 in its scope. However, telegraph rates aren?t so important >anymore, while the issue of consumer electronics immunity certainly is. >We expect our laws and regulations to evolve to address the important >issues of the day, junking the obsolete and helping with new conflicts. It is interesting that the US (ANSI) participates fully in the IEC committees on immunity, having four experts on each and holding the Convenership of one. Immunity is for other people, right?just -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.html=BQIBAg=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-w=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0k=DfV_m4hH3uYrcwXDEL2oYYcUiAvH2GMGZPgMEluXep8=t7oXi6LZLk9QUYcMWGf13x8Qxh9Cq5N3LJRz-eY1hQ8= Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_=BQIBAg=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-w=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0k=DfV_m4hH3uYrcwXDEL2oYYcUiAvH2GMGZPgMEluXep8=dpVzl3vy7Ty2lVA_Mtsf22T9AlmIrq7VSjkKFoiZeok= can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_=BQIBAg=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-w=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0k=DfV_m4hH3uYrcwXDEL2oYYcUiAvH2GMGZPgMEluXep8=MBC-PWkSTEdeV_H3SE5E5EPsKwSScsy8M4MdESoVsWI= Instructions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.html=BQIBAg=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-w=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0k=DfV_m4hH3uYrcwXDEL2oYYcUiAvH2GMGZPgMEluXep8=LjdwUv5zHYB3ySMXNcEZdm5qwGtHal09S1fn1PyFDE8= (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.html=BQIBAg=0hKVUfnuoBozYN8UvxPA-w=RJLDFgHJo89sjFN46b74hFXEuxvz4Z1iAx-glaOgP0k=DfV_m4hH3uYrcwXDEL2oYYcUiAvH2GMGZPgMEluXep8=tT_yY90TkyzdkSVMHn2qyiXL4O15CdyApX6TfWVVI9Y= For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and s
Re: [PSES] IEEE Electromagnetic Compatibility magazine
I receive the print version of IEEE Electromagnetic Compatibility Magazine. When I saw the email from IEEE, I too thought that I could download the pdf version of the magazine. However as you have stated, I could only get individual articles through Xplore because my Company is a subscriber to Xplore. I believe unless you are Xplore subscriber, you may not be able to view or download the full articles. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com 5601 Great Oaks Parkway San Jose, CA 95119 www.hgst.com -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 2:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] IEEE Electromagnetic Compatibility magazine I get notifications that the magazine is on line, but I can't understand the Xplore page it appears on. Most on-line journals can be downloaded as large .PDF files, but in this case it appears that only individual articles can be downloaded. However, even that doesn't work; I get either a single page or a corrupted 2-page document. And the files can't seem to decide whether they are .HTM or .PDF. I sent a help request and have received a most bizarre response, indicating that the responder has totally not comprehended my report. It's so off-beam that I can't even reply to it sensibly. Can someone please enlighten me? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com HGST E-mail Confidentiality Notice Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of HGST and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] EMC requirements for Korea
Hi Rob, South Korea has their own Emissions and Immunity specs (KN Series), which are equivalent to EN specs with some minor differences (test voltage etc.). Accredited test labs will test the equipment to KN specs, and generate the report, which is then submitted to Korean compliance agency. I don't know all the fine details, but my company has an office in South Korea, which processes the paperwork through a local consultant interfacing with the compliance agency. EMI Lab can also submit the report on your behalf. Overall the process is more complicated than FCC and EU. Hope this helps. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com From: Robert Dunkerley [mailto:robert.dunker...@snellgroup.com] Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 8:19 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMC requirements for Korea Hi, Has anyone had experience of the EMC requirements for selling goods to South Korea? There is conflicting information online on what is actually required. I always thought if you had CE and FCC covered, that would pretty much cover you for most of the world? Thanks Rob. This email and any attachments are confidential, may be legally privileged and are intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that any use, disclosure, printing or copying of this email is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If received in error, please delete this email and any attachments and confirm this to the sender. Snell Limited, registered number 1160119 Registered in England, registered office at 31 Turnpike Road, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 2NX, U.K. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com HGST E-mail Confidentiality Notice Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of HGST and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] PCB via holes - radiated emission
Hi Amund, One impact of increasing the via clearance (increasing the anti-pad size) is that the signals that are routed too close to the via may not have adequate ground return. This can have Signal Integrity as well as EMI implications. I would go through the layout to check such signals, and improve the layout if needed. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:55 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] PCB via holes - radiated emission Have previously done some radiated emission tests on a multi-layer PCB with good results. Now, all the via holes will change in the next layout revision. That's because the original PCB had a lot of short-circuits between via holes and inner layers, due to inaccurate process by the PCB manufacturer. The spacing between the via holes and inner layers will now be increased by approximate 0.1mm. I can hardly see that this change will cause any major impact on the radiated emission tests. It will still be the same (clock) components on the PCB and all the traces are unchanged. There will be different coupling between the via hole and inner layer planes. Can less coupling result in higher radiated emission? Maybe because of resonances due to less area for inner layers, but we talk about very small changes ... 0.1mm. Right now, we have 10dB margin @ 1600MHz. Increased distance between via holes and inner layer by 0.1mm will not make any significate change, I guess. Comments? Best regards Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com HGST E-mail Confidentiality Notice Disclaimer: This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential or legally privileged information of HGST and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail in its entirety from your system. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Quasi Peak - Length of Measurement Time for Final Spot Measurement?
In one of my previous lives when I was engaged in EMI testing, QP testing was done manually using the HP Quasi Peak Adapter. I remember using a time period of 20 seconds for QP measurements, which was accepted by FCC. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 9:11 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Quasi Peak - Length of Measurement Time for Final Spot Measurement? Yes, worst case means worst case. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: Rob Oglesbee [mailto:rogles...@radianresearch.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:30 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Quasi Peak - Length of Measurement Time for Final Spot Measurement? James, Since you are aware of it, you need to make sure you capture the max reading. Rob Oglesbee Radian Research (765) 449-5505 This message, and any attachments to it, may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that any use, dissemination, distribution, copying, or communication of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail or call 765-449-5500 and delete the message and any attachments. Thank you. From: Pawson, James [mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2015 11:02 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Quasi Peak - Length of Measurement Time for Final Spot Measurement? Dear group, When measuring emissions using a Quasi Peak detector are there any regulations or guidance concerning the amount of time one should dwell on a single frequency for a measurement? I know it depends on the nature of the signal. In this case, the signal of interest results in a burst of emissions of a high duty cycle followed by a long period (i.e. several minutes) of low duty cycle activity. If I use a QP detector and measure for 1 second just as the burst happens then I would get a high QP reading. If I measure in the steady state period I would get a lower QP reading. In this case, knowing the signals involves, would the intention to be to measure 1. one full representative cycle of emissions i.e. the initial burst and the low duty period after 2. during the maximum duty cycle only 3. during the steady state only I can imagine that the measurement difference between 1) and 3) in this case would be small as the level measured during the high duty period would have had time to decay down to the same level as the steady state due to the QP time constant. I’m asking this question in the context of both EN 55022 and FCC 15. Googling for “quasi peak measurement time” and similar phrases is not proving helpful Many thanks James Pawson - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post
Re: [PSES] USB and radiated emission issues
Hi Bill, What you say may be true. I often use memory sticks to terminate unused USB ports during testing, and on several occasions I have come across high emissions caused by the sticks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com From: Bill Owsley [mailto:00f5a03f18eb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 10:52 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] USB and radiated emission issues Have you determined that it is the stick and not the host? If the problem is just this brand of stick, then there are some layout issues that can be re-done to reduce or eliminate the issue. As James mentions, if there is an imbalance in the differential signal, that will generate a radiated problem. So correct the differential signal layout and increase the decoupling on the power+return. If you have a USB cable that you can open up so the pairs can be sniffed that may indicate which is the main source, signal or power, or both. The common mode choke with more decoupling on the power rail might help. From: Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.commailto:james.paw...@echostar.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] USB and radiated emission issues Hi Amund, a quick brain dump for you If the emissions are caused by imbalance in the differential signal then a Common Mode Choke (CMC) will probably help. Pick one with a good impedance at the frequency of interest, 480MHz in this case but you can also expect to see emissions at 960MHz and possibly 240MHz as well. The two main performance graphs are common mode impedance (higher is better) and differential mode impedance / insertion loss (lower is better) against frequency. There are wirewound and multilayer ceramic CMCs made by Murata, Laird, Wurth, TDK and probably others. The datasheet generally states if the part is suitable for USB 2.0. Ceramic parts usually give better high frequency performance from the datasheets I’ve looked at but are slightly more expensive. I’ve seen some manufacturers with combination ESD protection and CMC and some with CMC built into the USB connector. You’ll obviously need to measure signal integrity before and after adding the chokes to ensure your eye diagram looks OK. Hope this helps James From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: 20 March 2015 12:10 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] USB and radiated emission issues Got some serious radiated emission issues from a USB 2.0 stick (high-speed 480Mb/sec). Spectrum shows the 480MHz way over the EN55022 limit line. We’ve been told to implement a common mode choke between the USB IC and the input/output port. That means on the D+ and D- transmission lines. http://www.coilcraft.com/0805usb.cfm Anybody who have experience with such design? #Amund - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw
[PSES] EMC Certification carried out with Non-ROHS Compliant ASIC
Hi Experts, I have this question. We would like to test our product for FCC/EU compliance, so that we can ship early samples to our customers. Because of the higher cost, we cannot provide free samples. However the current product uses Non-ROHS compliant ASIC, which will be compliant when we start volume shipment. I would like to know if a recertification will be needed with the ROHS compliant ASIC, or can we use the same certification. There will be no other change in the ASIC or PCB. Thank you for your help. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] EMC Certification carried out with Non-ROHS Compliant ASIC
Thanks to all. My understanding is that only difference between Non-ROHS and ROHS compliant parts is the package material. Regards Ravinder Ajmani Principal HW Engineer, Signal Integrity/EMI HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Phone: 408-717-7956tel:408-717-7956 From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 12:04 PM To: Ravinder Ajmani Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: EMC Certification carried out with Non-ROHS Compliant ASIC I imagine you would need to verify with the ASIC Manufacturer if the only difference in the RoHS version is the material composition that would not affect switching speeds or the like and they have not changed anything with the masks. If the masks are changed then you probably need to re-measure your EMC and get a new report. -Dave From: Ravinder Ajmani [mailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com] Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 1:31 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMC Certification carried out with Non-ROHS Compliant ASIC Hi Experts, I have this question. We would like to test our product for FCC/EU compliance, so that we can ship early samples to our customers. Because of the higher cost, we cannot provide free samples. However the current product uses Non-ROHS compliant ASIC, which will be compliant when we start volume shipment. I would like to know if a recertification will be needed with the ROHS compliant ASIC, or can we use the same certification. There will be no other change in the ASIC or PCB. Thank you for your help. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.commailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.orgmailto:sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables - a conundrum
A generation ago I was involved with EMI testing of computer products. Most of the products our lab tested were PCs (XT, AT), and peripherals (printers, monitors, Modems, Display Adapters, etc). Printer cable was always a key issue. We would always use Belden cables with the printers, as they were double shielded with proper shield termination. If ferrite clamps were required to pass then the report would state it, and customer would be advised to provide the ferrite clamps with the product. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 9:31 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables - a conundrum Playing the devil advocate here only because I find this interesting and I'm not advocating anything. Heck I'm probably just arguing for argument sake. If all cables are not equal as Ghery and note and the designer/manufacturer has knowledge of that don't the cables then become special accessories in their own right? Under 15.27 c) They would not normally be considered special accessory items under the definition because they can be easily purchased at a multitude of locations. 15.27 c) Accessory items that can be readily obtained from multiple retail outlets are NOT (my emphasis) considered to be special accessories ... But given the knowledge of the designer/manufacturer that cables vary in performance and not all cables were tested the only assurance they have that the system will perform as intended is buy telling the consumer exactly which cable they must use buy name and brand. But if they do that then the cable isn't readily obtained from multiple outlets and is now by definition a special accessory. Paragraph 15.27 says that The party responsible for the equipment, as detailed in §2.909 of this chapter, shall ensure that these special accessories are provided with the equipment So now must the cable be provided? Gmac -Original Message- From: Pettit, Ghery [mailto:ghery.pet...@intel.com] Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 12:46 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] FCC EMI Test and Ferrites on Cables You are highly unlikely to find the ferrite prayer beads at Best Buy. If you don't specify which ones to get you have no idea what the result will be. I think you are correct, the beads must be shipped with the product. The right ones, to boot. Now, how does the designer know that he needs ferrite beads? My experience has been that many (most?) HDMI cables do not have their shields terminated properly, if at all. Once the shields are terminated correctly problems go away. Could this be a better solution? Ghery S. Pettit - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] DesignCon 2015 Track 12 - Achieve Electromagnetic Compatibility and Mitigate Interference
Hi EMC Gurus, DesignCon 2015 is around the corner with many new topics added to Track 12 - Achieve Electromagnetic Compatibility and Mitigate Interference. I know right now you are all thinking about the IEEE EMC Symposium, but the last date for submission of paper abstract is July 11, 2014. So if you are planning on presenting a paper in DesignCon 2015 then now is the time to get started. I am listing below the paper topics. You may also visit http://www.designcon.com/santaclara/call-for-abstracts for additional details. I am co-chairing Track12 this year. • EMI radiation and suppression • EMI troubleshooting techniques • Pre-qualification testing for immunity (radiated, ESD, etc.) • Pre-qualification testing for emissions • Near-field coupling and crosstalk • Noise characterization and containment • Emissions and interference modeling • Shielding and package design • Differential to common-mode conversion • EMI measurement: near-field scanning and far-field checks • EMI for high-density multi-port systems • EMI system susceptibility • System radiated and conducted emissions • Safety and compliance of power networks Best Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process
Hi Gert, Thank you very much. your suggestion is very useful. I will definitely try it. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl 03/25/2014 01:47 AM To ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject RE: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hi Ravinder, Note that voltage measurements (even on a fast scope) are not what you are looking for in EMC. Only current measurements give you a good impression. You might construct you own current sensor with a tiny ferrite (3-5 mm) cut in two halves and put 3-5 winding on it. This works up to +/- 1 Gig only and needs shielding and some kind of calibration to use reliably. Some principles are shown below from our friend Ken Wyatt (also on this list): http://www.interferencetechnology.com/the-hf-current-probe-theory-and-application/ but I recommend using half a ferrite, to be able place it on a pcb trace for example. Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen, BSc Van: ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com [mailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com] Verzonden: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 3:55 AM Aan: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hi Derek, James, Thanks for your response. Rise time was measured with a high-bandwidth scope, so rise time measurements are being limited. It is my understanding is too that broad frequency spectrum will be the result of faster rise time. Which is why I am having hard time with this. Close-field probing shows higher noise above the die, so that could be one of the problems. The ASIC drives high-speed signals to a connector, which connect to a host through cable. I am interested in understanding the root cause of the noise occurring at very high frequency that what one would expect from the signal. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com 03/24/2014 06:08 AM Please respond to Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com To EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hi Ravinder, James's comment made me wonder about a statement you made about rise times being the same. Are you sure what you are seeing isn't the limit of your measuring technique? A broader noise spectrum may be due to a faster rise time that you are not seeing in the time domain. I too have observed that flip chips exhibit more heat-sink coupling. Also, do not rely on data sheets for these numbers, they can differ wildly. Can you alter the behavior of the chip to determine if one section of circuitry is responsible? e.g. output buffers.. Are the emissions from the whole package? do any of the signals from the ASIC leave the PWB? I recall fixing a problem with a board where the ASIC powered a front panel LED. That LED didn't rearly need the nS rise times from the ASIC. Keep posting clues... Sincerely, Derek L F Research. -Original Message- From: Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Mon, Mar 24, 2014 4:46 am Subject: Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hello Ravinder, I wasn’t going to answer this as you were asking the experts ;) Flip chips couple very well into their heatsinks compared to older wirebond packages as the silicon is much closer to the top surface. Perhaps try grounding/decoupling the heatsink or changing to a ceramic material for diagnosis of the problem? Also, the package bond inductance will probably have reduced. You could look at increasing the decoupling, especially on any digital core and driver pins. Has the manufacturer provided updated reference schematics for the new chip? Rgds James Pawson EchoStar Europe From: ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com [mailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com] Sent: 23 March 2014 01:39 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hi Experts, I am comparing EMI from two ASICs. Both have identical rise/fall times and signal amplitude. Yet the ASIC built with the later technology not only has significantly higher radiated emissions, but also shows much broader noise spectrum. PCB stackup and layout is identical. Please help me understand what other factors can be responsible for this anomaly. The older ASIC uses a wirebond package, whereas the new ASIC has flip chip package. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc
Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process
Hi Derek, James, Thanks for your response. Rise time was measured with a high-bandwidth scope, so rise time measurements are being limited. It is my understanding is too that broad frequency spectrum will be the result of faster rise time. Which is why I am having hard time with this. Close-field probing shows higher noise above the die, so that could be one of the problems. The ASIC drives high-speed signals to a connector, which connect to a host through cable. I am interested in understanding the root cause of the noise occurring at very high frequency that what one would expect from the signal. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com 03/24/2014 06:08 AM Please respond to Derek Walton lfresea...@aol.com To EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hi Ravinder, James's comment made me wonder about a statement you made about rise times being the same. Are you sure what you are seeing isn't the limit of your measuring technique? A broader noise spectrum may be due to a faster rise time that you are not seeing in the time domain. I too have observed that flip chips exhibit more heat-sink coupling. Also, do not rely on data sheets for these numbers, they can differ wildly. Can you alter the behavior of the chip to determine if one section of circuitry is responsible? e.g. output buffers.. Are the emissions from the whole package? do any of the signals from the ASIC leave the PWB? I recall fixing a problem with a board where the ASIC powered a front panel LED. That LED didn't rearly need the nS rise times from the ASIC. Keep posting clues... Sincerely, Derek L F Research. -Original Message- From: Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Mon, Mar 24, 2014 4:46 am Subject: Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hello Ravinder, I wasn’t going to answer this as you were asking the experts ;) Flip chips couple very well into their heatsinks compared to older wirebond packages as the silicon is much closer to the top surface. Perhaps try grounding/decoupling the heatsink or changing to a ceramic material for diagnosis of the problem? Also, the package bond inductance will probably have reduced. You could look at increasing the decoupling, especially on any digital core and driver pins. Has the manufacturer provided updated reference schematics for the new chip? Rgds James Pawson EchoStar Europe From: ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com [mailto:ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com] Sent: 23 March 2014 01:39 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Hi Experts, I am comparing EMI from two ASICs. Both have identical rise/fall times and signal amplitude. Yet the ASIC built with the later technology not only has significantly higher radiated emissions, but also shows much broader noise spectrum. PCB stackup and layout is identical. Please help me understand what other factors can be responsible for this anomaly. The older ASIC uses a wirebond package, whereas the new ASIC has flip chip package. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org
Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process
Hi Marko, Thanks for your suggestions. Core voltages are identical SerDes voltages are also same I believe new chip has more transistors, but how does that affect EMI on the serial link. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Marko Radojicic radojic...@yahoo.com 03/22/2014 10:23 PM To ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com cc EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process A few items to consider 1 Core voltage 2 Serdes voltage 3 Internal chip architecture - new chip may have millions more transistors Higher voltages will result in much higher emi even if rise/fall time is same. ...Marko Sent from my iPhone On Mar 22, 2014, at 9:03 PM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote: Hi Ken, Thanks for your response. The rise/fall time in the new ASIC is firmware controlled to match the rise/fall time of the older ASIC. Measurements were made with a 30 GHz bandwidth scope, so I don't think scope bandwidth is limiting the rise/fall time measurement. I agree that flip chip will result in faster rise time, but measurements are being made at the end of the 2 long PCB trace, using SMA connectors. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com 03/22/2014 08:18 PM To ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com cc EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process It could be your scope doesn't really show the true rise time of the faster chip. I suspect the flip chip really does have faster rise times. Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC Woodland Park, CO k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com (Sent from my iPad) On Mar 22, 2014, at 8:38 PM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote: Hi Experts, I am comparing EMI from two ASICs. Both have identical rise/fall times and signal amplitude. Yet the ASIC built with the later technology not only has significantly higher radiated emissions, but also shows much broader noise spectrum. PCB stackup and layout is identical. Please help me understand what other factors can be responsible for this anomaly. The older ASIC uses a wirebond package, whereas the new ASIC has flip chip package. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org
Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process
Hi Cortland, What you say makes sense to me. Thanks for your feedback. I need to take another look at the decoupling. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com CR k...@earthlink.net 03/22/2014 11:19 PM Please respond to k...@earthlink.net To EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process Ravinder, While an output waveform may be limited in firmware* that does not mean it is limited on the chip; my experience is that a major cause of EMI when using faster devices as replacements is that the current the replacement draws due to non-limited internal functions is switched much faster than the original, so that, due to trace or package inductance, the board's charge storage capacitance may not supply current fast enough to prevent Vcc and ground bounce -- which appears on non-risetime-limited I/O, power, control, BITE and power pins/balls. There can also be radiated coupling to non-filtered or non-shielded conductors both on the PWB and off. *(Possibly by switching in one of several output buffers with different series resistors) Cortland Richmond On 3/22/2014 9:38 PM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote: I am comparing EMI from two ASICs. Both have identical rise/fall times and signal amplitude. Yet the ASIC built with the later technology not only has significantly higher radiated emissions, but also shows much broader noise spectrum. PCB stackup and layout is identical. Please help me understand what other factors can be responsible for this anomaly. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process
Hi Ken, Thanks for your response. The rise/fall time in the new ASIC is firmware controlled to match the rise/fall time of the older ASIC. Measurements were made with a 30 GHz bandwidth scope, so I don't think scope bandwidth is limiting the rise/fall time measurement. I agree that flip chip will result in faster rise time, but measurements are being made at the end of the 2 long PCB trace, using SMA connectors. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com 03/22/2014 08:18 PM To ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com cc EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process It could be your scope doesn't really show the true rise time of the faster chip. I suspect the flip chip really does have faster rise times. Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC Woodland Park, CO k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com (Sent from my iPad) On Mar 22, 2014, at 8:38 PM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote: Hi Experts, I am comparing EMI from two ASICs. Both have identical rise/fall times and signal amplitude. Yet the ASIC built with the later technology not only has significantly higher radiated emissions, but also shows much broader noise spectrum. PCB stackup and layout is identical. Please help me understand what other factors can be responsible for this anomaly. The older ASIC uses a wirebond package, whereas the new ASIC has flip chip package. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Cost of a 3m chamber
Hi Experts, My company is exploring setting up a 3m chamber for in-house Emissions and Immunity testing. I would like to know a ballpark estimate of setting up the chamber as well as its expected annual expenditure. Thanks for your help. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Labelling Requirement for ITE Equipment under Industry Canada ICE-003 Issue 5
Hi Experts, Industry Canada ICE-003 Issue 5 makes labelling of ITE mandatory. My question is whether an internal SATA or SAS Hard Disk Drive or Solid State Drive, which is never used stand-alone and can not be connected to an ITE through an external cable, has to meet this labelling requirement. The document classifies ITE Peripheral Devices, which if sold as part of an ITE System need only be tested as part of the system. However document only lists external peripheral devices, such as printers, external disk drives, etc. There is no mention of internal peripheral devices such as SATA/SAS Disk Drives. I will appreciate your guidance on this subject. Thanks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital Company 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy San Jose, CA 95119-1003 ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Canada ICES-003 Issue 5
Hi Experts, Canada ICES-003 Issue 5 for Information Technology Equipment will be applicable for all products released after Aug. 31, 2013. In addition to the Technical Requirements, Issue 5 also mandates new Labelling Requirements. What is not clear is whether the labelling requirement is applicable to all the products, or only to the products released after Aug. 31, 2013. I will appreciate if someone can clarify this for me. Thanks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Canada ICES-003 Issue 5
Hi Brian, Thanks. I somehow missed the footnote. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 08/01/2013 10:23 AM Please respond to oconne...@tamuracorp.com To emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject RE: Canada ICES-003 Issue 5 Footnote of Section 8 in ICES-003, Iss 5 Brian From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 9:43 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Canada ICES-003 Issue 5 Hi Experts, Canada ICES-003 Issue 5 for Information Technology Equipment will be applicable for all products released after Aug. 31, 2013. In addition to the Technical Requirements, Issue 5 also mandates new Labelling Requirements. What is not clear is whether the labelling requirement is applicable to all the products, or only to the products released after Aug. 31, 2013. I will appreciate if someone can clarify this for me. Thanks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Compliance requirement for PC Add-on cards
Hi Experts, I am now mainly involved with product pre-compliance testing. Hence my knowledge of compliance requirements is rather stale. I have been told that the PC Add-on cards (in this case a SAS Host Bus Adapter) do not require separate compliance by the adapter vendor, but only by the integrator as part of the system. The old rule used to be that any add-on card with external port has to get its own FCC-ID, although tested as part of a system. Years ago when I was in compliance, I remember testing many adapter cards and filing papers with FCC for obtaining FCC-ID for our customers. Thanks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company Phone: 408-717-7956 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Looking for Gaussmeter for measurements up to 250 kHz
Hello Experts, I am looking for a Gaussmeter to measure DC and AC magnetic fields up to 250 kHz. I have tried searching on line but am unable to find one which covers such high frequency. I will appreciate any help in finding the source for Gaussmeter. Thanks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Looking for Gaussmeter for measurements up to 250 kHz
Hi Tom, Thanks. I checked FW Bell web site and their models 8010 and 8030 cover only up to 50 kHz. I will call them to find out if they have any model which supports 250 kHz range. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Thomas Cokenias t...@tncokenias.org 01/04/2013 09:15 AM To ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com cc emc-p...@ieee.org Subject Re: Looking for Gaussmeter for measurements up to 250 kHz Hi Ravinder Try F.W. Bell, recently bought by Meggitt PLC. I saw a probe there that goes DC - 450 kHz, but you should contact them with your specific requirements since they have many combinations of frequency range and sensitivity. http://fwbell.com/default.aspx Good luck. best regards Tom On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:55 AM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote: Hello Experts, I am looking for a Gaussmeter to measure DC and AC magnetic fields up to 250 kHz. I have tried searching on line but am unable to find one which covers such high frequency. I will appreciate any help in finding the source for Gaussmeter. Thanks. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Looking for Gaussmeter for measurements up to 250 kHz
Hi John, Thanks. I now understand that I will need two meters, one for DC/low frequency and the other for high-frequency. Dave Baron provided me the information off-line for a 2 kHz - 400 kHz Magnetic Field Meter from ETS-Lindgren, which will serve my purpose. My thanks to all who responded to my query. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 01/04/2013 09:42 AM To EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject Re: Looking for Gaussmeter for measurements up to 250 kHz In message of0a53b9f4.0b1f453e-on88257ae9.005bd6d8-88257ae9.005cf...@hgst.com, dated Fri, 4 Jan 2013, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com writes: I am looking for a Gaussmeter to measure DC and AC magnetic fields up to 250 kHz. I have tried searching on line but am unable to find one which covers such high frequency. I will appreciate any help in finding the source for Gaussmeter. What values of field strength do you wish to measure? The preferred techniques differ considerably with field strength. You may need to have two meters, one for DC only and another for AC. What is the lowest frequency you actually need to measure? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk The longer it takes to make a point, the more obtuse it proves to be. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits
Hi Ghery, I fully agree with you about the early computers being very LOUD. In the late 80's I was working at an EMC Test lab. Those days most PCs were not designed for EMC compliance. A good number of them were built with 2-layer motherboards, and even with a clock frequency of 4.77 MHz many would fail during testing. In fact I remember testing one particular PC which failed Class A limits by 10 dBs. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com Pettit, Ghery ghery.pet...@intel.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 10/17/2012 09:54 AM To Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject RE: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits The 30 meter limits existed in a German standard and Edition 1 of CISPR 22. Edition 2 made Class A and Class B limits at the same distance, 10 meters. The limits were not capricious nor arbitrary, they were set based on a fairly large amount of work by industry participants. CBEMA ESC-5 (now ITI TC5) published a large document detailing the studies. The FCC used this document. And, why did we have the limits? Because early home computers were LOUD and interfered with everything. The limits we have today fixed the problem. Ghery S. Pettit From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Ken Javor Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 9:45 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits What is arbitrary and capricious about setting EMI limits just below a level that provides a minimum quality standard? Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.com Reply-To: Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:39:13 -0700 (PDT) To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits Way back in the old days, so goes the tale as it was told to me, for the FCC,broadcast receivers were determined to have a certain level of sensitivity for reliable reception of the intended broadcast. So Limits were set capriciously and arbitrarily just below that sensitivity level. Measuring distance was determined in a similar fashion, 3 meters being the home environment, and 10 meters being the work or non-home environment. I vaguely recall a 30 meter distance. All this are tales of the dark side when there were only OATS and testing was all day long in the blistering summer sun, or all night while feeding mosquito's. The automotive industry declined to play along and took care of themselves, as did the military, and the airlines, And they do have some near field testing and get to use comfortable test environments like indoors for a large portion. We got so envious of those comfortable conditions, we ginned up a fine story about ambients interfering with our tests, and weather interfering with test time, etc. that we got to build a 3 meter chamber, the first one recognized by the FCC as an alternative to the OATS. From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits In message of583e7385.c0c56cf9-on86257a9a.0040152b-86257a9a.00418...@mmm.com, dated Wed, 17 Oct 2012, rehel...@mmm.com writes: And has any of this OATS, SAR, FAR, and TEM cell data differences been correlated to actual interference problems? Is the EMC industry crying wolf? The only practicable way to check is to look at the number of complaints of interference, but many countries now don't collect them, and the number of interference cases probably exceeds the number of complaints by a large factor. It is certain that if any manufacturer or industry association heard any alarmist cries, representations would be made for speedy changes. Limits and test methods should be based in reality. They should not be academic exercises. For example, much of the world's products are in the near-field of each other (cockpits, OR, control rooms, etc.). Why aren't there near field test procedures? Yes, I know the problems but those are just excuses. Methods need to be developed (and alas, I'm not smart enough). The problems are not excuses, any more than an inability to develop anti-gravity is an excuse. Ye canna change the laws o'physics, Cap'n! Near-field measurements are horribly non-repeatable and, in almost all cases, cannot be relied on in a regulatory context. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk/ The longer it takes to make a point, the more obtuse it proves to be. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post
Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits
Several years ago I was using a 3m FAR for pre-compliance measurements. They were using a giant BiLog antenna for the measurements. A constant factor was added to the measured values to arrive at the OATS value. The reason I stopped using their facility was because the data didn't correlate well with the 10m semi-anechoic chamber. Regards Ravinder Ajmani HGST, a Western Digital company ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org 10/16/2012 10:25 AM To EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG cc Subject Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits Certainly radio frequency emissions measurement is far from an exact science, but that's probably just fine for what it is intended to do. Pass at one lab, fail at another seems to be a common theme, so there must be many variables at play. I've read that, depending on antenna size, 3 metre distance is within what is called the near field and if so, then I assume spectrum of radio emission wouldn't correlate well to what would be measured at 10m or 30m. ___ Ralph McDiarmid | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA | Regulatory Compliance Engineering From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 10/16/2012 09:40 AM Subject: Re: [PSES] OATS vs FAR Radiated Emissions Limits In message a60ff8a65589d24a98d82fafc6f0ac56062eb8c...@euroexcc1.sats.corp, dated Tue, 16 Oct 2012, Pawson, James james.paw...@echostar.com writes: These limits are lower than those for an OATS at 3m. Does anyone know why the limits are lower and of a different characteristic? I'm guessing something to do with the lack of reflective ground plane in the FAR. In principle, an attempt has been made to reconcile the limits applicable to the different measurement environments so that products with given emission levels produce at least similar test results (dB above or, preferably, below the limit) in each environment. The deliberations that resulted in these limits were long and very complex. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk The longer it takes to make a point, the more obtuse it proves to be. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. __ - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org
Re: ESD failure
Hi, It has been almost a week since I have been trying various techniques to fix the ESD problem in my PCB. I am particularly thankful of the suggestion by John Barnes to place a copper tape on the insulator over HCP and then move the EUT over the tape. John, I improvised it further by connecting a small piece of copper tape to the probe tip. I also connected the copper tape directly to the ground through a long wire. I could then move the probe tip over the circuit board with the ESD gun turned on. This way, I was able to accurately pinpoint the sensitive locations on the board. Currently, I have loaded special microcode which only reads the on-board flash and blinks the LED on the board, which simplifies my debugging process. I have tried placing low value decoupling capacitors (47 pF) on the following signals: JTAG Reset POR Analog VDD PLL VDD Couple of other lines used for ASIC configuration Every step has helped raise the threshold of failure. Now I can contact discharge directly on the board ground screws up to -7 kV without failure. I also have no problem with -7 kV contact discharge on the HCP. On Positive polarity, I can pass 8 kV. However, I am still failing at 8 kV Negative contact discharge on the board screws, and HCP. I would like to know if I am expecting too much from a complex logic (meaning should I declare victory with this level of improvement), or keep trying to make it more robust. I would welcome all suggestions. The ASIC has an embedded processor, and there are no external interrupt lines to filter. According to the ASIC designer, no other pin should impact the working of embedded processor. I still have to test the board with the actual microcode running real application. Once again Thanks to All for your valuable suggestions. Regards, Ravinder Server PCB and Flex Development Hitachi Global Storage Technologies *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
ESD failure
Hi ESD Gurus, I am having problem with a controller card which is failing contact ESD discharge at Negative 5 kV and below, but passes Positive contact discharge upto 8 kV, and air discharge of either polarity upto 15 kV. The card is mounted on an open metal chassis, and has DC input of 5V and 12V coming from a power supply. The ground of the card is directly tied to the chassis at several places. I am not discharging into the controller chassis, but l place the unit on my ESD table and discharge into the horizontal coupling plane, which results in the failure. Through my testing, I have isolated the problem to the main ASIC on the card. An earlier version of the same card passes the test, whose ASIC is built from the same CMOS process, but has a different processor core. It is difficult to determine which part of the ASIC logic is latching up. I have tried adding low value decoupling capacitors to power supply, but it has no effect on the problem. Any suggestions on what I should I try next. Regards, Ravinder Server PCB and Flex Development Hitachi Global Storage Technologies *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: red tape
Red Tape is a very common term used for describing the bureaucracy of Government of India (perhaps a legacy from British). Delays and inaction by Indian bureaucracy have often been blamed to the Red Tape in the government offices (which signifies a cloth ribbon tied around a file folder to hold the papers in place). One result of the criticism was that the red tape was subsequently replaced with a white tape. Although it is anybody's guess, if this actually improved the working at the government offices. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.ukTo: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject: Re: red tape mo.ieee.org 02/03/2003 09:38 AM Please respond to John Woodgate I read in !emc-pstc that Ted Rook t...@crestaudio.com wrote (in se3e406c@peavey.com) about 'red tape' on Mon, 3 Feb 2003: red tape is an obstruction to progress while formal procedures are completed. OTOH, it's what I put over exposed mains connections while working on a piece of equipment while it is powered. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Emissions quick test
Lisa, Com Power sells complete pre-compliance system with an inexpensive spectrum analyzer, pre-amplifier, and a set of three probes. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain lisa_cef...@mksinst.co m To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject: Emissions quick test mo.ieee.org 08/20/2002 01:34 PM Please respond to Lisa_Cefalo Hi all, Does anyone know of a down- and- dirty , inexpensive method or equipment for sniffing out emissions issues? I've used a Spectrum Analyzer in the past with a series of different probes, but that tends to be costly. Also, Is there a universal probe kit out there? Thank you in advance. Lisa Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE Manager, Reliability and Design Services MKS Instruments 6 Shattuck Road Andover, MA 01810 (978)-975-2350 X 5669 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: suggestion for 100W audio amp
Hi Susan, I am not familiar with DO-160D or 461E requirements. However, I am using a 500W audio amp (POWERTRON Model 500A Power Amplifier) from Industrial Test Equipment Co., Inc., Port Washington, NY 11050 (Phone: 516-883-1700), with my Helmholtz coil system for frequencies up to 200 kHz. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain shbeard@rockwellcolli ns.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject: suggestion for 100W audio amp mo.ieee.org 07/19/2002 07:24 AM Please respond to shbeard Hello group, I was hoping that someone could suggest a vendor/model number for an 100 W audio amplifier for use performing DO-160D, change 2, section 18 audio susceptibility testing. I am currently using an old Solar 6552-1A, but sometimes it can't provide the pre-calibrated power (100W) into the EUT. It could also be used for 461E CS101 testing. Thanks in advance, Susan Beard --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: IEEE Conference Proceedings (2000 - 2001)
Mat, I had received the 2001 IEEE Conference Proceedings CD in the original shrink wrap, which was post marked BELGIQUE. I do not know the name of the company that mailed it to me. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain Aschenberg, Mat Matt.Aschenberg@echosTo: 'bnad...@matrox.com' bnad...@matrox.com, tar.com emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject: RE: IEEE Conference Proceedings (2000 - 2001) mo.ieee.org 07/15/2002 11:15 AM Please respond to Aschenberg, Mat Let me clarify... Is there a company sponsoring the distribution of the IEEE conference proceedings, so that they are not approx. $150 each? -Original Message- From:Benoit Nadeau [SMTP:bnad...@matrox.com] Sent:Monday, July 15, 2002 11:44 AM To:Aschenberg, Mat; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEEE Conference Proceedings (2000 - 2001) Bonjour de Montreal, Each year, the IEEE library buys all the documentation issued by International Symposiums of all the IEEE. They then make them available to buy on their web site. The following link will bring you to the Internet pages for the last IEEE EMC Symposiums. Just click Conference proceedings and do a search on electromagnetic compatibility and you will get a list of all they have. You will see the 2000 (Washington) and 2001 (Montreal) symposiums listed on paper or CD-ROM. Regards, http://shop.ieee.org/store/ == Benoît Nadeau, ing., M.ing. (P.Eng., M.Eng) Gérant du Groupe Conformité (Conformity Group Manager) Matrox == 1055, boul St-Régis Dorval (Québec) Canada H9P 2T4 Tel : (514) 822-6000 (2475) Fax : (514) 822-6275 mailto:bnad...@matrox.com http://www.matrox.com == -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Aschenberg, Mat Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 11:18 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: IEEE Conference Proceedings (2000 - 2001) Hello, In the past the IEEE procedings have been made available to the public. Applied Microfilm sponsored the 40 years for $40. UL sponsored a CD for the few years following. Has anyone seen a CD for the last two years? Mat --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list
Re: Safety of microwave ovens
I wish to express my sincere thanks to all who provided me information on the microwave oven safety. To summarize, the microwave ovens have a good RF seal to protect the user from leakage. According to the FDA web site on microwave safety, even at a distance of 2 from the microwave oven, the RF field is much below the harmful level. Regards, Ravinder Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Pre-amps
Joe, HP (Agilent) make good Pre-amps for different frequency ranges. If you are looking for an economical solution then you may try Com Power Corp. at (949) 587-9800. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain MartinJP@appliedbiosyst ems.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Pre-amps o.ieee.org 11/14/2001 10:14 AM Please respond to MartinJP I am having some difficulties locating manufacturers that provide preamps with a 20-22dB gain. What manufacturer/model do you recommend? Why? Your assistance is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin Applied Biosystems --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: Component ESD Immunity Testing
I have been asked on several occasions to test some particular IC on the card, whenever there have been instances of IC failures during product manufacturing/testing. Most ICs are built to withstand an ESD event of 2 kV, and I have found this to be true in my tests. If IC happens to be OK then I try to improve the card design to reduce/eliminate the product failures. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. . Mark Twain plaw...@west.net (Patrick Lawler) To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@majordom Subject: Re: Component ESD Immunity Testing o.ieee.org 10/01/2001 08:27 AM Please respond to plawler We have an engineer who did ESD testing once on the pins of ICs buried in a power supply assembly. The unit passed, and he thought it was a great way to show product robustness. However, when I asked him if he would redesign power supplies that failed his special test, he replied he wouldn't. Would _you_ redesign your system if it failed? Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net On Mon, 1 Oct 2001 08:02:10 -0600 , Aschenberg, Mat matt.aschenb...@echostar.com wrote: Since all of you have your ESD hats on. Are there standards for testing of components on a pwb? There is some concern here that we should be testing individual components on the pwb. Thanks for your help. Mat Aschenberg --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
UL requirement for driver
Hi, I am basically an EMC guy and do not know much about UL requirements. I would like to know if there are any UL requirements for a driver with output voltage swing of +/- 30V peak-to-peak. The RMS voltage will be much smaller, and the power will be less than 0.5 watt. The driver is to be used to activate an off-card electromagnetic coil, and a flex cable will be used as interconnect. I will appreciate your replies. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. . Mark Twain --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: virus targeting list?
George, I remember receiving couple of messages in the format described by you, with an .exe file attached. In both cases, the name of the sender was garbled. As a rule, I simply delete such messages from unknown sources which come with .exe attachments. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. . Mark Twain George Stults George.Stults@watchgua To: emc-p...@ieee.org rd.com cc: Sent by: Subject: virus targeting list? owner-emc-pstc@majordom o.ieee.org 08/17/2001 02:17 PM Please respond to George Stults Hello Group, This is a little off topic but possibly of interest. I just received an email from a location in Mexico, from someone I don't know at some college, that contained the virus 'sircam.' I thought it might be of interest because EMCPSTC is the only forum I'm monitoring and responding to, so I'm guessing that someone on the list got hit and that it may be that many of you will see it as well. Here is a link that talks about it: http://www.datafellows.com/v-descs/sircam.shtml The message you'll see is like this: From: [user@address] To: [user@address] Subject: [document name without extension] Hi! How are you? 'I send you this file in order to have your advice' or 'I hope you can help me with this file that I send' or 'I hope you like the file that I sendo you' or 'This is the file with the information that you ask for' See you later. Thanks If a system's language is set to Spanish the worm sends messages in Spanish: Hola como estas ? 'Te mando este archivo para que me des tu punto de vista' or 'Espero me puedas ayudar con el archivo que te mando' or 'Espero te guste este archivo que te mando' or 'Este es el archivo con la informaci n que me pediste' Nos vemos pronto, gracias. Needless to say, delete it. Regards, George Stults --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: 120V appliance on 240V supply
I would like to express my thanks to all of you who provided me with valuable information on this topic. I now have a good understanding of the possible risks associated with such an endeavor. Regards, Ravinder Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. . Mark Twain --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
120V appliance on 240V supply
Hi, I am interested in knowing if a 120V, 60Hz microwave oven can be safely used on a 240V, 50Hz mains supply with a step-down transformer. Regards, Ravinder Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. . Mark Twain --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: AC Power Primer?
Can someone explain to me how reducing the voltage will lower the power consumption, if the load is kept constant. On the contrary, this should cause an increase in consumption because higher current means increased copper losses in the wiring. This is the reason why power distribution is done at very high voltage levels. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. . Mark Twain Hans Mellberg emcconsult...@yahoo.com@ieee.org on 05/04/2001 09:04:41 AM Please respond to Hans Mellberg emcconsult...@yahoo.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org To: Nerad, DarenHS-SNS daren.ne...@hs.utc.com, 'Price, Ed' ed.pr...@cubic.com, 'mkel...@es.com' mkel...@es.com, emc-p...@ieee.org cc: Subject: RE: AC Power Primer? Daren, you bring up an interesting point. California's energy woes could possibly be band-aid if the voltage was reduced 10%. (maybe that is too big of a management issue, does anyone know?) Assuming that a large percentage of the users don't have switcher regulators then that would equate to a 5-9% reduction in energy consumption hence reducing California's power problems significantly till more power plants are built. That might lower the spot market price! --- Nerad, DarenHS-SNS daren.ne...@hs.utc.com wrote: It all boils down to $$$s! Notice you don't see 110 V on the lines, probably not even 115 or 117 but as close to 120V as they can keep it (except for you folks in CA, then this is a digital thing, HA!). WHY? You consume more Watts if the V is greater! Check your wall outlet, what does it read? IT would be interesting to use this forum to do a quick dirty survey. Granted we can only hit where engineers feel like making measurements, when they do, but it would be interesting... Daren A. Nerad EMC Engineer = Best Regards Hans Mellberg Regulatory Compliance Consultant and Design Services By the Pacific Coast next to Silicon Valley Santa Cruz, CA, USA 408-507-9694 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall, --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
RE: ESD protection
I wish to thank all of you who responded to my query. I now have several ideas for trying in the current design, as well as for the layout change. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.rcic.com/ click on Virtual Conference Hall,
Re: Near Field Versus Far Field
Several excellent ideas have been put forward on this phenomenon. Here is my $.02 worth on the subject. I have often been able to reduce the far-field emissions, based on the reduction in near-field emissions. The important thing is to co-relate the far-field and near-field emissions, by comparing their frequency spectrums. It is possible that the 400 MHz clock you worked on with near field probe may not be the real culprit. Another trace may be coupling the 400 MHz clock noise to some cable, or one of the other signals, which is driven by the 400 MHz clock, may be the real source. Regards, Ravinder PCB Development and Design Department IBM Corporation - Storage Systems Division Email: ajm...@us.ibm.com *** Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain marti...@appliedbiosystems.com@ieee.org on 09/14/2000 10:07:36 AM Please respond to marti...@appliedbiosystems.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org cc: Subject: Near Field Versus Far Field I am having a difficult time answering the following question for a non-technical person. Hopefully, someone can put the answer into a language that a non-technical person can understand. We have a 400 MHz clock and are failing radiated emissions at 10 meters by 10 dB at 400 MHz. We bring the product back to our lab and start making modifications on the clock circuit and taking measurements with a near field probe. With these modifications and measuring with a near field probe, we realize a 10 dB reduction in emissions at 400 MHz. Why would we not see the same reduction when taking the product back to a 10 meter site? Your help is appreciated. Regards Joe Martin marti...@appliedbiosystems.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
