Re: [Emc-users] Linux CAM.

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2020 12:29 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Linux CAM.
>
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 17:23, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
>
> > I found this some years ago when I was looking around.  Then found
> > Fusion360.  It was obviously better.   Now it appears Solidworks is going
> > to take its place.
>
> Both Fusion and Solidworks CAM seems to be basically HSMWorks.
>
> --
> atp

Looking at their website (https://www.deskproto.com/order/prices.php) 
Deskproto appears to cost between 0 and ?995 depending on features and who 
purchases it. They have a "hobby" deal (something like the old Fusion hobby 
licence) that claims to be identical to their commercial version for 0 to ?248 
for the multi-axis version.





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Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe

[Ken Strauss]

How do you generate gcode from Alibre? I found
https://www.alibre.com/ecosystem-cam/ and AlibreCAM appears to be $1000/year
to over $21,000. I can afford $199 one time but an annual licence costing
thousands is not in my budget!

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2020 8:27 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
>
> There's always the less functional https://www.alibre.com/atom3d/
> If can export step and stl files. You pay for it and use it off line.
Less than $200.
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-17-20 5:04 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CAD for parts to make on a lathe
> >
> > Fusion360 just made changes that in my opinion kill the product for
> > personal use.  You can not save your work locally as a STEP file after
> > October 1, 2020.So download your stuff now.
> >
> > OnShape and Solidworks look like good options.
> >
> > Solidworks is used for thinks like rocket engine design at SpaceX and
for
> > building cars at GM.  You are not going to outgrow it but may not need
it
> > either.OnShape does not have native CAM.  I assume people on the
LCNC
> > list want CAM.
> >
> > One opinion is to just pay for Fusion360.  It is on sale now for about
$270
> > but will go back to $495/yr at some point.
> >
> > What is REALLY needed is a good open source CAM system that accepts
.STEP
> > files from any CAD system.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 4:28 PM hubert  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 9/17/20 11:30 AM, dave engvall wrote:
> > > > Chris,
> > > > You might try Synergy, does the whole ball of wax. Not too
expensive.
> > > > Takes time to learn. Parasolids based. 2D, 2.5D, 3D, wireframe,
> > > > solids,  turning and probably something i missed. Unusual feature is
> > > > extrusion screws.
> > > > Runs on linux; will run on Windows but you lose a few features. Has
a
> > > > 30 day free demo.
> > > > https://www.webersys.com/
> > > >
> > > I used to use Synergy but changed to Fusion 360.  I talked to Bob at
> > > Weber Systems today and it is now down to just Him.  While still
> > > supports current customers he is encouraging those who need other
> > > features to look elsewhere.  He lost his Longtime cohort Larry a
couple
> > > or years ago but he is now retirement age.  It was a long time UNIX
> > > product but hasn't transitioned to 64 bit.  He is running it under
> > > Ubuntu 16.04 but had trouble with 18.  I don't know if he would be
> > > interested in passing the product on, but he hasn't updated since
2015.
> > > > As far a photoshop; gimp is pretty good but maybe not so easy to
learn.
> > > >
> > > > YMMV
> > > >
> > > > Dave
> > > >
> > > > On 9/16/20 12:15 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > > >> No.  I don't know of any CAM software for generating toolpaths for
> > > >> lathes that runs on Linux.
> > > >>
> > > >> The best 3D CAD that runs on Linux is  https://www.onshape.com/.
But
> > > >> unlike
> > > >> Fusion360, Onshape does not have the ability to generate toolpaths
> > > >> unless
> > > >> you get some 3rd party add-in software.
> > > >>
> > > >> I have two computers here.  An iMac for most things and a Linux
based
> > > >> 16-core Xeon PC with nVidia GPU for robotics software development.
> > > >> Onshape
> > > >> on the Xeon is 10X faster than Fusion on my older iMac   But I've
not
> > > >> figured out a good way to translate the Onshape models to g-code.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gene suggests wring g-code by hand but that simply can't be done
for
> > > >> complex parts and even if one could do this there is no "proof"
that
> > > >> g-code I write is the same as what I designed in the CAD system.
> > > >>
> > > >> One solution is running a virtual machine on the Linux PC,
installing
> > > >> Windows 10  on that and then Fusion360.   But this requires a
rarely
> > > >> powerful Linux PC.
> > > >> (At least as a minimum, a 4-core i7 with 16GB RAM and SSD.)
> > > >>
> > > >> I've been a Linux user (both professional and at home) for a long
> > > >> time and
> > > >> before Linux existed,  BSD UNIX and Solaris but then one day I
wanted to
> > > >> edit video and process images shot with an SLR.   Adobe is the only
> > > >> game in
> > > >> town for professional-level media editing unless you consider
Apple's
> > > >> Final
> > > >> Cut Pro X.None of this runs on Linux.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 11:38 PM R C  wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 9/16/20 12:09 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > >  Fusion 360 can generate g-code for mills and lathes.  It's free
> > >  even for
> > >  commercial use until you make $50K using it.
> > > 
> > >  Fusion is a little bit like Freecad but is more complete and
better
> > >  supported as you would expect of a product from Autodesk.
> > > 
> > > 

Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 1:03 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: August-31-20 9:21 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter
> >
> > > I have one of these.
> > > Fowler 54-575-600 Electronic Edge Finder with Cylindrical Tip, 0.200"
> Stylus, 1/2" Shank
> > >
> > >  I use it with the Shumatech  DRO to find edges or the center of
something
> round.  The DRO-350 has a feature for that.  Eventually
> > I'll wire up a cable that can be sensed by LinuxCNC to detect the edge
> automatically.
> >
> > Was also thinking about a cable, however need to connect it each time
> otherwise tool changer will slowly turn it into a twisted cable.
> > Expect they are more or less equally good as 3D taster but much cheaper.
> >
> Nicklas
>
> You make a good point.  It should be possible to make some sort of holder
> which fits around a TT mill holder shank.  The holder could have a small
Blue
> Tooth Low Power module that signals contact.
>
> The issue might be response time.   Or noise that delays the contact
signal
> long enough to break the probe.

It takes *VERY* little overtravel to destroy the tip of a small carbide
endmill. I wouldn't consider touching off onto a plate lacking some sort of
movement after contact with the endmill.




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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-
> us...@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2020 2:17 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Gregg Eshelman
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter
>
> How about a cheap solid state sensor that detects orientation or just any
> movement? Store it business end up and when flipped upright it turns on
> fully. Put it back in its storage rack and in a couple of minutes it shuts 
> down.
> Give it a large coin cell and it can run for years. The latest RadBeacon 
> Locator
> Tents (as seen at McDonalds) are juiced up for up to five years. When they
> started them in 2016 the company sold them based on an annual
> replacement program.
>
> Dunno what their current specifications are except they have BlueTooth. One
> version circa 2018 had a 32-bit ARM Cortex M4F processor at 64 MHz
> with 512 KB flash and 64 KB SRAM. Some extreme computing power just to
> broadcast its location, in a restaurant where all the tables are line of 
> sight
> from the counter (in most locations).
>

Some would consider it an unacceptable health risk but a small mercury switch 
can sense turning the probe into operating position and would have zero drain 
from the battery when the probe is not in use.




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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 4:01 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] Mist Coolant
>
> Does anyone use mist coolant?  If so what sort of fluid?  Mixed with
water?  If
> water then how do you dry up things so rust doesn't happen.
>
> I mostly mill aluminium castings but occasionally steel.
>
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer

I also do mostly aluminum and plastic. For aluminum I use a Trico MQL unit.
The unit is ridiculously expensive and the fluid is merely expensive.
However, it has worked well for perhaps 8 years, I use a gallon of coolant
every few years and the air blast does a pretty good job of clearing chips.
Average usage is perhaps 2-6 hours per week of actual cutting time. I never
cleanup and rust is not an issue, there is no noticeable odour, no problems
with bacteria and I don't get a bothersome mist. I'm happy if somewhat
poorer.




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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone tried these auto lube units?

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:15 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Anyone tried these auto lube units?
>
> On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 00:08, Leonardo Marsaglia 
> wrote:
>
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Electromagnetic-Lubricant-Pump-
> Automatic-Lubricating-Oil-Pump-220V-HTS02-
> 2L/184283971779?hash=item2ae82e40c3:g:TCMAAOSwiI1eYgJZ
>
> I have no experience with any of them, though I have been tempted by:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk//dp/B07F63C1P4
>
> Or the even cheaper:
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07S8QCPD1
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

It is hard to be certain from a picture/description but I used one that 
appears to be identical to https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07F63C1P4 for a number 
of years without problems. It was installed in a very awkward position so I 
eventually replaced it with an automatic unit. The automatic one is 
similar/identical to 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/2L-Dual-Digital-Display-Automatic-Lubrication-Pump-Oiler-220V/262703418891
 
You can control the time between lubrication and amount to lubricate. Several 
years of usage with way oil has not damaged the plastic tank.




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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Ken Strauss]

"You need more gearing with the DC motor." Correct and this could be
considered an advantage since a very small DC motor + gearing (multiple
planetary stages) would have sufficient torque to move the scope. I have no
idea if a RPI can keep up with 3 quadrature encoders and control 3 motors
and manage a UI. However, you could make a compact unit at low cost
containing a microprocessor that takes step/dir, tracks encoder position and
generates PWM to run the motor. Rather like a low power, low RPM, high
torque version of a Clearpath servo.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:14 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor
>
> Stepper motors are good for this.   A stepper has the most torque at zero
> RPM and the torque falls as speed increases while a DC brushed motor has
> very little power when moving slowly.  You need more gearing with the DC
> motor.
>
> The problem is you need to generate precise pulses.  If the pulse spacing
> is not accurate then you are asking a large telescope to accelerate and
> decelerate instantly. So to generat pulses need either
> 1) a hardware solution like a microcontroller or FPGA or pulse generator.
> 2) A real time kernel on the Linux system or
> 3) A PID loop to supervise a non-real-time software pulse generator
>
> When I build stuff, my preference is the microcontroller.  I design it so
> the microcontroller can work independent of a larger Linux computer or
take
> commands from a large Linux computer.  I want some basic functionality
> when
> power is applied then adding the Linux PC adds more functionality.
>
> Linux CNC uses a slightly different idea they either go with Real-Time
> Linux or use a very simple pulse generator running in an FPGA.
>
> Reading up to three quadrature encoders with just a Raspberry Pi might
> work, or not.  I don't know.  A lot depends on the speed of the encoders.
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 6:45 PM R C  wrote:
>
> > I don't think anyone did,  but I know that's how most do it...
> >
> > But that's just too easy  :)I would just like to see if I can do it,
> > killing time
> >
> >
> > On 7/10/20 7:39 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > > I haven't been following this closely but has anyone suggested that
you
> > use a
> > > DC motor with an encoder? With a PID loop and PWM power to the motor
> you
> > could
> > > run the motor continuously. DC motors with integrated encoder and
> > planetary
> > > gearbox are readily available for a few dollars. Just a thought.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Ken Strauss]

You could use the DC motor + PID exactly the same as using steppers. With the 
encoders you would always know the exact angle though which the motor had 
rotated. The advantage would be the lack of any jerks in motion which are 
inherent with a stepper. Have you considered using the Clearpath units? See 
https://www.teknic.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:05 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor
>
> yep..  true..  but it is also knd of what I do for a living...
>
>
> I think it can be done,  to build an equatorial platform, and really
> control it's speed/angle over time.
>
>
> On 7/10/20 7:52 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > I also waste a lot of time exploring different ways of doing things but
> > frequently end up doing it the traditional way. One should never just 
> > accept
> > "how it is done" but for many (most?) things there are good reasons for
> > traditional ways.
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 9:43 PM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor
> >>
> >> I don't think anyone did,  but I know that's how most do it...
> >>
> >> But that's just too easy  :)I would just like to see if I can do it,
> >> killing time
> >>
> >>
> >> On 7/10/20 7:39 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> >>> I haven't been following this closely but has anyone suggested that you
> >>> use a
> >>> DC motor with an encoder? With a PID loop and PWM power to the
> motor
> >> you could
> >>> run the motor continuously. DC motors with integrated encoder and
> >> planetary
> >>> gearbox are readily available for a few dollars. Just a thought.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Ken Strauss]

I also waste a lot of time exploring different ways of doing things but 
frequently end up doing it the traditional way. One should never just accept 
"how it is done" but for many (most?) things there are good reasons for 
traditional ways.

> -Original Message-
> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 9:43 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor
>
> I don't think anyone did,  but I know that's how most do it...
>
> But that's just too easy  :)I would just like to see if I can do it,
> killing time
>
>
> On 7/10/20 7:39 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > I haven't been following this closely but has anyone suggested that you 
> > use a
> > DC motor with an encoder? With a PID loop and PWM power to the motor
> you could
> > run the motor continuously. DC motors with integrated encoder and
> planetary
> > gearbox are readily available for a few dollars. Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Ken Strauss]

I haven't been following this closely but has anyone suggested that you use a 
DC motor with an encoder? With a PID loop and PWM power to the motor you could 
run the motor continuously. DC motors with integrated encoder and planetary 
gearbox are readily available for a few dollars. Just a thought.




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Re: [Emc-users] PCIe vs Ethernet Mesa card?

[Ken Strauss]

Possibly it is a DHCP timeout issue. The 7i92 has three choices for IP
address: 192.168.1.121, BOOTP or configured in the EEPROM. The 192...
address is the usual choice. Consider how the host determines the address if
it is set using BOOTP.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2020 11:57 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PCIe vs Ethernet Mesa card?
>
> Could the delay be caused by DHCP?  If the computer does a DHCP query and
> does not find a DHCP server it will re-try perhaps many times.   The
> solution would be "don't do that" and assign a fixed IP address.
>
> Has anyone actually tried using the same Ethernet for normal uses and
> connected to Mesa at the same time or did you just assume it would not
> work?   I wonder if a managed switch could make it work using a VLAN
or
> some other trick involving level of service priority
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 3:19 PM Jon Elson  wrote:
>
> > On 07/06/2020 03:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > >> On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 21:22, Chris Albertson
> 
> > wrote:
> > >>> Is there any advantage to using a bus connected Mesa card like the
> > 6i25 vs
> > >>> using one of the Ethernet-connected cards such as 7i92M or 7i93
> > >> PCI might be more reliable. Not so much during runs, but at startup.
> > >> It is quite easy to imagine something changing the network setup of
> > >> your machine, and finding that you just can't get it to run.
> > > No experience with the PCI cards but what I have noticed with my 7i92H
> > is that after I boot and sign on into Linux it's important that I go and
do
> > something else for a few minutes.   Then come back and click on the icon
> > that runs the actual LinuxCNC Axis program that uses the HAL file for
the
> > 7i92H.
> > >
> > > Seems otherwise the Ethernet connection to the 7i92H can't be found
for
> > the first few minutes.
> > >
> > > There may well be some parameter that can be set so the 7i92H Ethernet
> > connection happens faster.
> > >
> > >
> > This may be due to connmanctl trying to figure out what
> > network is running on the port that is connected to the Mesa
> > board.  There may be a way to tell connmanctl to not touch
> > that port.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] PCIe vs Ethernet Mesa card?

[Ken Strauss]

A lengthy delay is definitely not my experience. I boot from a SSD and the
entire startup process is definitely takes less than a minute.
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2020 4:52 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PCIe vs Ethernet Mesa card?
>
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 21:22, Chris Albertson 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is there any advantage to using a bus connected Mesa card like the
6i25 vs
> > > using one of the Ethernet-connected cards such as 7i92M or 7i93
> >
> > PCI might be more reliable. Not so much during runs, but at startup.
> > It is quite easy to imagine something changing the network setup of
> > your machine, and finding that you just can't get it to run.
>
> No experience with the PCI cards but what I have noticed with my 7i92H is
> that after I boot and sign on into Linux it's important that I go and do
> something else for a few minutes.   Then come back and click on the icon
that
> runs the actual LinuxCNC Axis program that uses the HAL file for the
7i92H.
>
> Seems otherwise the Ethernet connection to the 7i92H can't be found for
the
> first few minutes.
>
> There may well be some parameter that can be set so the 7i92H Ethernet
> connection happens faster.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] PCIe vs Ethernet Mesa card?

[Ken Strauss]

Older Tormach machines such as my PCNC770-3 shipped with either a 5i25 or
6i25. Newer machines (now with significantly faster rapids) use a 7i92. Note
that there appears to be no way to share a single Ethernet port on the host
computer with a 7i92 and normal network connectivity. I have it working here
by using two Ethernet cards -- one for a 7i92 and the other for Samba +
internet.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2020 4:20 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] PCIe vs Ethernet Mesa card?
>
> Is there any advantage to using a bus connected Mesa card like the 6i25 vs
> using one of the Ethernet-connected cards such as 7i92M or 7i93
>
> It seems that Ethernet would allow me to control the CNC Mill and lathe
> from any computer even the ones in the office and also from a computer
that
> lacks a PCIe bus slot such as a Raspberry Pi or notebook PC
>
> But I ask because possibly there is some reason to stay with the
> bus-connected cards.
>
> That said, I am getting good enough performance from the parallel port.
>  "Good enough" defined as the motors and mechanical parts being the
> bottleneck.   But I want to install an encoder on the spindle and also
> experiment with 5 uM glass slide encoders on the machine.So I just
> might end up with 5 high-speed quadrature encoders (Spindel, x,y,z,a) and
> that is simply NOT going to work over a parallel port.
>
> BTW my "cheapest possible setup" Mini Mill is coming along.   I am in fact
> noting some flex in the plastic parts and have some ideas for an improved
> design. I think it is normal that designs "mature".  The Z and X-axis
> are solid but my dial indicator tells me I can do better on Y.  It seems
> that a complete CNC conversion can be done for under $500 with little to
no
> machine work required
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] More BS-1 clone headaches.-

[Ken Strauss]

Just move the "0HBM86Q/" to after the "B00" so that you have
"/dp/B000HBM86Q/"
Alternatively, search Amazon for "engineer blue". Or search Amazon for
"Permatex".

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2020 9:35 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More BS-1 clone headaches.-
>
> On Saturday 04 July 2020 09:03:12 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > Another common term is "engineer's blue". If you don't want to use a
> > Sharpie then order
> > https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80038-Prussian-Fitting-
> Compound/dp/B00
> >0HBM86 Q/
>
> prussian blue, when I finally get the link to work, broken word wrappers
> ought to be shot, and survivors shot again. Unforch, its probably broken
> at gmail, they've not got that right in 20 years and won't fix it. Its
> not even open for discussion, BTDT.  Repeatedly.
>
> Anyway, I'll see if the local NAPA store has any Monday.
>
> Thanks Ken.
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 9:50 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More BS-1 clone headaches.-
> > >
> > > On Friday 03 July 2020 20:46:46 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 01:25, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > > > > Blue.
> > > > >
> > > > > I thought of that, but I don't know where I could src some of
> > > > > that locally.  Is "diechem blue" the right search term to feed
> > > > > google??
> > > >
> > > > Not really, Dykem is a marking out fluid rather than a contact
> > > > testing compound.
> > > >
> > > > You can see what happens with just a marker pen, though. (it will
> > > > work just as well as Dykem)
> > >
> > > If you can get it clean enough to stick, formerly greased steel is
> > > not a good candidate. Ink with acid etch might work but I've not see
> > > any of that since I was building titan sites around EAFB in 1960-61.
> > >
> > > > In the UK I would use "Stuarts Micrometer Blue" but I don't know
> > > > what the US version is.
> > > >
> > > > But the US version of "marker pen" seems to be "Sharpie'
> > >
> > > If you can get it truly lox clean. Or you can find one marked
> > > "permanent" which has solvents that can penetrate the lube film.
> > >
> > > This might be a place for candle smoke if it wasn't such a bitch to
> > > re-assemble for testing, I usually smoke rifle actions to get a good
> > > start on bedding them into the wood.  It transfers to the wood on
> > > contact, telling you where to carve next. Another possibility on
> > > this side of the pond might be Birchwood-Casey's Cold blue, which
> > > can blacken clean steel.  And its un-tough enough to show the
> > > contact pattern pretty easily.  That I can get at Wallies.  No clue
> > > if they'll be open tom. though as tom. is Independence day on this
> > > side of the pond.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> > > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > > Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] More BS-1 clone headaches.-

[Ken Strauss]

Another common term is "engineer's blue". If you don't want to use a Sharpie
then order
https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80038-Prussian-Fitting-Compound/dp/B000HBM86
Q/


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 9:50 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] More BS-1 clone headaches.-
>
> On Friday 03 July 2020 20:46:46 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 01:25, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > > Blue.
> > >
> > > I thought of that, but I don't know where I could src some of that
> > > locally.  Is "diechem blue" the right search term to feed google??
> >
> > Not really, Dykem is a marking out fluid rather than a contact testing
> > compound.
> >
> > You can see what happens with just a marker pen, though. (it will work
> > just as well as Dykem)
> >
> If you can get it clean enough to stick, formerly greased steel is not a
> good candidate. Ink with acid etch might work but I've not see any of
> that since I was building titan sites around EAFB in 1960-61.
>
> > In the UK I would use "Stuarts Micrometer Blue" but I don't know what
> > the US version is.
> >
> > But the US version of "marker pen" seems to be "Sharpie'
>
> If you can get it truly lox clean. Or you can find one marked "permanent"
> which has solvents that can penetrate the lube film.
>
> This might be a place for candle smoke if it wasn't such a bitch to
> re-assemble for testing, I usually smoke rifle actions to get a good
> start on bedding them into the wood.  It transfers to the wood on
> contact, telling you where to carve next. Another possibility on this
> side of the pond might be Birchwood-Casey's Cold blue, which can blacken
> clean steel.  And its un-tough enough to show the contact pattern pretty
> easily.  That I can get at Wallies.  No clue if they'll be open tom.
> though as tom. is Independence day on this side of the pond.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Turning a pulley.

[Ken Strauss]

Is the angle between the cheeks (what is the right term?) of the pulley 34
degrees? If so using a tool with VCMT inserts fed straight in might work.
See
https://www.iscar.com/eCatalog/Family.aspx?cat=5596383=869=IS=
0=4=T#:~:text=VCMT%2DSM%20%3A%2035%C2%B0%20rhombic,Positive%20r
ake%2C%20low%20cutting%20forces. If that very long URL fails try Googling
for "VCMT insert". Both holders and inserts are available cheaply on eBay.


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Friday, July 03, 2020 7:49 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] Turning a pulley.
>
> This isn't as much of a CNC question but more of a tool shape and
positioning
> question.
> http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/SpindleMotorPulley-3.jpg
>
> I'm having trouble getting past a certain depth while trying to cut the
smaller
> pulley.  The tool holder keeps getting in the way and with the compound
set
> at 17 degrees it's difficult to follow the inner contour as shown in the
3D print
> sample.
>
> A 1/4" tool bit projects too far.  I wonder if grinding a 3/8" tool bit so
it can sit
> at an angle away from the big pulley face but still track the inside face.
And
> not hit the other face.  Total depth is 0.55" and about 0.3" wide at the
> bottom.
>
> Perhaps someone with more experience can post a sketch of a tool shape
that
> would solve my problem?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>
>
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[Emc-users] Motion Control

[Ken Strauss]

There have been many discussions here of possible ways to interface LinuxCNC
to real motors and such. I recently got an announcement of a new product
from the ClearPath people that may be of interest. For us$100 you get a
board with 120MHz ARM Cortex, Ethernet, USB, ESD protected I/O, H-bridge,
interface to 4 ClearPath servos, etc. I don't have an immediate application
but it looks interesting.

See https://www.teknic.com/products/io-motion-controller/




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Re: [Emc-users] I downloaded the latest appimage

[Ken Strauss]

Are you certain that an STL is " just 3D pixels  and has lost all the lines,
angles, and circles and points that the CAD file had."? I thought that an
STL file was made up of the coordinates of the vertices of triangles rather
than pixels.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 8:54 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] I downloaded the latest appimage
>
> It is rare for a CAD program to be able to modify .STL files. In
> Fusion360 there is a way to transform STL back into editable CAD and I
> think Onshape can do the same.
>
> An analogy is that you can edit text with a word processor but if you take
> a photo of the document with your cell phone, the text is now an image and
> you would not expect to be able to edit it.  STL is like a photo.  It is
> just 3D pixels  and has lost all the lines, angles, and circles and points
> that the CAD file had.
>
> Yes there is OCR to take images back to editable text and as said some CAD
> systems can import STL files back into CAD.STL never translate back
> perfectly even in the best case.
>
> So,  Don't give FreeCAD a "fail" for this.
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:56 PM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > And loaded up the .stl for that half a pulley I tried to make a hub for
> > yesterday, but I didn't get a touch off right and it was about .5mm too
> > small for the plastic. FreeCAD rendered it nicely, but I couldn't get it
> > to measure anything, nor modify it in any way.
> >
> > So I went back to OpenScad and reworked it.  Then exported the .stl,
> > loaded it up into the slicer, set it for super quality, and saved the
> > gcode without all the branding so I got a name short enough to display
> > on the ender's display.
> >
> > So FreeCAD failed its first test here.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
respectable.
> >  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Freecad

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:48 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Freecad
>
> Since the recent discussion about freecad, when I mentioned I am running a
>  older version from Appimage with some niggly issues, I have
come
> to realize that the development version of freecad is available from here:
>
> https://wiki.freecadweb.org/AppImage
>
> It is quite possible to run more than one version of the Appimage and I
have
> now downloaded 0.19-21775.
>
> I have yet to try this to compare with the existing.
>
> Martin

I hesitate to spend time installing and learning FreeCAD only to find that
it is not useful. Can anyone provide an assessment of the capabilities of
the gcode produced? For example, does it implement only the most basic 2.5D
toolpaths or are helical entry, canned cycles, peck drilling, HSM toolpaths,
etc available?




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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

Hardware is Tormach 770 with Mesa 7i92

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 5:17 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> On Saturday 20 June 2020 00:20:46 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
>
> > Just a thought:
> >
> > Since the index pulse is only one PPR, does it keep working and is it
> > readable right up to 10k rpm? If so, you could first read the index
> > pulse; if speed> threshold, multiply index by encoder ppr and connect
> > that to encoder in; if speed < threshold (-hysteresis?), connect main
> > pulse to encoder input.
> >
> > I'm writing this having no idea what kind of hardware you have or if
> > it's even possible.
> >
> > > On Jun 19, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Jon Elson 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > ?On 06/19/2020 10:30 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > >>> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 04:05, Ken Strauss 
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd
> > >>> like to leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm
> > >>> concerning about it surviving at high RPM.
> > >>
> > >> My guess would be that it won't explode, it will just stop
> > >> counting. And that probably isn't actually a problem.
> > >>
> > >> Qou only really care about accurate counting at low speeds.
> > >
> > > Well, I have a spindle RPM display on a PyVCP on my mill, it is nice
> > > to check that I'm getting the right speed.
> > >
> > > Jon
>
> It seems to me that if a 1000 line ABZ encoder was geared down 4/1, that
> the .ini file SCALE for the spindle would then be 1000, not 4000,
>
> and if the geardown was an integer divisor, like 4, the index pulse
> generated would still be coherent to the spindle position, and would be
> the equ of missing the index for 3 of the 4 rotations, but the 4th would
> trigger a rigid tap cycle that with the 1000 scale, would still do the
> correct G33.1 tap cycle since I have been told that the ONLY thing the
> index is used for is the cycle start point.
>
> If the SCALE is 1000, not the 4000 it would be for a 1/1 correspondence,
> the only side effect would that when arriving at the starting position
> and waiting for an index, it might wait as much as 3 turns, but should
> still fire on the index and do its thing, executing a normal rigid tap
> cycle.
>
> So tell me why it wouldn't work...  And I don't think thats thinking that
> far outside the box.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 10:43 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> On 06/19/2020 07:03 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 00:38, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >> Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap encoders
> capable
> >> of higher RPM?
> > It will cost you less than $10 to find what happens to those encoders
> > at 10k rpm.
> >
> > (My guess would be that they just stop seeing the edges)
> >
> Oh, if you need 10 K RPM, then it is best to use a gear
> tooth sensor and a modest number of
> teeth to sense.  Spindle encoders do not really need a high
> count/rev to give good threading
> results.
>
> Jon

Obviously I'm not contemplating threading at 10K RPM! However, I'd like to
leave the encoder installed at all times which is why I'm concerning about
it surviving at high RPM. Suggestion for a cheap gear tooth sensor?




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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

Good point regarding the need for an index. Are there cheap encoders capable
of higher RPM?

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 5:00 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> On Friday 19 June 2020 14:49:54 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
> > except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle.
> > Any suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed
> > (perhaps 5:1)? Will normal GT2 belts survive?
>
> Until it doesn't, long time down the log.  You'll need to rig a once per
> turn index though as you bee way out of time. At 10g revs, you'll need
> an index every turn, which you won't get if its geared down. However, an
> even number gear down might work. But it for sure won't if the geardown
> is fractional.  So use a 1000 line encoder, gear it down 4 to one and
> use a scale of 250.  And that should work.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7

[Ken Strauss]

I would like to add rigid tapping. Those are some inexpensive encoders
except the top rated speed is 5000 rpm and I have a 1 rpm spindle. Any
suggestions regarding suitable pulleys to reduce the speed (perhaps 5:1)?
Will normal GT2 belts survive?

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:02 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Universal spindle speed control for $7
>
> There is all the space I need to build an encoder for the HF mill's
> spindle.  The sensor will fit above the drawbar.
>
> I'm thinking of using this sensor.  The shaft would point down and
> thesensor is aligned with an directly over the spindle.
> ebay.com/itm/360-600P-R-Photoelectric-Incremental-Rotary-Encoder...
>  Encoder-5V-24V-AB-Two-Phases-
> Shaft/254214673272?hash=item3b30601378:g:AfUAAOSwQ0dcxosi>
>
> There is a cover over the spindle that is held on by friction. It
looks
> like the top on a can of spray paint.I can make a replacement that is
> held on by magnets.  Inside is the encoder that fits on top of the
drawbar.
> The sensor is fitted with a 17mm "socket"  that is light friction fit to
> the top of the drawbar.
>
> In use, I'd remove the new cover and stick it on the side of the mill
using
> the magnet, apply the wrench to the drawbar then replace the cover.
>
> I am trying to decide if I want a 360 line or a 600 line encoder.   Either
> will send data too fast for a printer port with no Mesa card.   I might
put
> a microcontroller in the cover and use a serial interface.   The plan is
to
> get spindle speed control to run open-loop first.   I figure an open-loop
> servo-controlled pot is at least as accurate as a human operator can do
> with his fingers while listening to the noise.
>
> My pendant project got a huge boost when I figured out I don't need to
> build any hardware.   I can use an off the shelf X-box USB game
> controller.  I already have a few of them.
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 4:11 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > On Friday 19 June 2020 06:10:48 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >
> > > I was going to suggest this at the start of the thread, but I thought
> > > it would be considered too Heath Robinson..
> > >
> > And within its limitation of available torque to keep the tap turning,
> > and an encoder able to track to a 5 degree accuracy, I see no reason to
> > totally eliminate rigid tapping from its abilities. Even the little 200
> > watt hf mill should be able to turn an 0-80 or maybe even a 2mm tap. The
> > lack of space in the head to build a decent encoder is far more of a
> > limitation than a speed controller such as this. Thats the main reason
> > my little hf never grew the ability to tap,  That controller/amplifier,
> > pulled out of the head and mounted in a 4x6x3" box so all the the hot
> > electronics was out of sight, proved to be a very high gain controller,
> > so high gain I was forced to rig an ammeter to tell me how hard it was
> > working so I could control the cost of fuses, there was otherwise no
> > slowdown to let the user know it was working too hard.
> >
> > I eventually blew that controllers pass transistor, a simple powet
> > F.E.T., and in search of a suitable replacement, checked the bugs in an
> > out of spec pc supply from the junk box, found it was rated at 800 volts
> > instead of 200, 12 amps instead of 2.5, but otherwise looked the same.
> > So the consideration resolved to the driver transistor in the circuits
> > ability to switch the much higher gate capacitance that bug had to have
> > since switching speed is paramount. I put it in, think I had a reservoir
> > of such bugs if it didn't work. I raised the fuse from 2.5 amps to 4.
> >
> > That was over a decade back. I've blown the fuse 2 or 3 times since with
> > the ammeter pegged, but its still there although the rest of the mill is
> > in pieces, it unscrewed one of its ballnuts a year & 1/2 ago.
> >
> > Somebody should make me an offer for it, its the complete controller out
> > of the big head hf x1 with a pmdx-106 interface, ready to take the pwm &
> > direction output of LinuxCNC from a parport bob, either manual or full
> > bi-directional computer control of a 200, maybe even a 400 watt motor.
> > Its not in service here, and probably won't ever be again as I'm
> > approaching the end of my ride here with a pump running at 31%
> > efficiency.  And thats beginning to affect my giddy-up.
> >
> > > On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 at 20:40, Chris Albertson
> > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm making good progress on my 3D printed CNC conversion.  I found a
> > > > way to 3D print a spindle controller that should work for most small
> > > > milling machines and small lathes.   The cost is "almost nothing".
> > > > These machines' spindles are controlled by turning a potentiometer
> > > > so my new system simply uses a cheap model airplane 

Re: [Emc-users] Cheaper than normal FHA-25B

[Ken Strauss]

I assume that you are thinking of
https://hackaday.io/project/19405-strain-wave-gear-with-timing-belts Thanks
for the interesting idea!

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 6:21 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cheaper than normal FHA-25B
>
> THere are two different kinds of drives.  The "harmonic" and
> "cycloidal".  THey both use an eccentric center gear but the teeth
> have different shape.  The cyclodal type use arcs and have fewer
> teeth.   This is why I said they could be made using average equipment
> -- just an end-mill.
>
> You can get 100:1 with a 10 tooth cyclodal by stacking.   THere are
> some smart designs where a stack of two is less then 2x tall.
>
> One more thing:   Some smart person figured out how to make a 100:
> harmonic system with no need to make an internal ring gear.  Internal
> 101 tooth gears are hard to make.   So it used a timing belt press fit
> into a hollow cylinder.  THen you can use a timming pulley as the
> eccentric.
>
> > Several of those on ebay for solid gold prices have far less outer pins
> > than teeth on the moving wheels, looks like at least 100/1 can be
> > obtained from a single stage that way but the tooth shapes seem like
> > they are not exactly fixed arcs but just fractions of full arcs.  That
> > would be more complex to make, but probably still quicker than 2 stages
> > with full arcs as the wiki page shows.
> >
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Cheaper than normal FHA-25B

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 4:32 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cheaper than normal FHA-25B
>
> On Saturday 16 May 2020 16:01:08 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > 3 Nm is about 2.21 ft-lb so at 12:1 reduction I think it would provide
> > about 26.5 ft-lb. For comparison, the Tormach microArc4 (harmonic
> > drive with NEMA 34 stepper) claims to provide a maximum holding torque
> > of 28 ft-lbs but they suggest using only half of that to avoid
> > excessive wear. I don't know the reduction ratio for their unit.
> > See https://tormach.com/microarc-4-4th-axis-38412.html
> >
> I don't know as I ever seen a nema 34 that short, and neither of those
> lb/ft rating are very impressive. I'd be a heck of a lot more
> comfortable with 100 lb/ft. With the BS-1 being a 40/1 worm, I'd expect
> well north of that when stationary.  Asking the worm to move it at 50lbs
> might tax things though.  I wonder if the cycloidal drive could be
> shrunk to serve as the worm drive on a BS-1?  Say 3" OD?


I haven't been closely following this discussion so I apologize if my
questions have already been answered.

How much does a decent sized harmonic reducer cost new (non-eBay)? Who makes
a good unit?




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Re: [Emc-users] Cheaper than normal FHA-25B

[Ken Strauss]

3 Nm is about 2.21 ft-lb so at 12:1 reduction I think it would provide about
26.5 ft-lb. For comparison, the Tormach microArc4 (harmonic drive with NEMA
34 stepper) claims to provide a maximum holding torque of 28 ft-lbs but they
suggest using only half of that to avoid excessive wear. I don't know the
reduction ratio for their unit.
See https://tormach.com/microarc-4-4th-axis-38412.html

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 3:22 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Cheaper than normal FHA-25B
>
> On Saturday 16 May 2020 15:09:08 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > One interesting and fun option is to make your own cycloidical
> > reduction. These are completely buildable on a CNC mill that can do 2
> > 1/2 D machining on mild steel.  Unlike most other gears, these can be
> > cut from plate stock with just an end mill.   THey can be 3D printed
> > too.
> >
> > See the wiki link below.  In a real system, the purple and grey parts
> > are made from sealed bearing units and you'd have two moving plates
> > stacked 180 degrees out of phase so as to counterbalance each other.
> > But the good points are (1) high torque, (2) very low backlash, (3)
> > compact size, (4) very simple 2D geometry
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycloidal_drive
> > There are 100 Youtube videos about people making these with 3D
> > printers but they work better with metal.   These have become popular
> > with people building robot arms and robot legs but could also be
> > driven with a servo motor and used as a rotational axis for a machine
> > tool.
> >
> > In a machine tool application, you would place a rotational sensor on
> > the axis and close the servo loop inside the controller.   A cycloidal
> > system can be back-driven (just like spur gears or timing belts)  so
> > they MUST be used in a closed-loop
>
> Which then brings up the need for some math.  So how would one go about
> getting from a 3 phase stepper motors holding power, say 3 NM to lbs/ft
> at the output of a 12/1 cycloidal gear?
>
> Assuming zero losses in the bearings, which I'd guess at 5% if decent
> bearings.
>
> Could that 3NM motor hold it, or even move it under cutting loads?
> >
> >
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Toolchange and tlo behaviour change in 2.8

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 2:35 PM
> To: Robert Ellenberg; emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [Emc-developers] Toolchange and tlo behaviour
> change in 2.8
>
> On Friday 10 April 2020 08:24:11 Robert Ellenberg wrote:
>
> > Gene,
> >
> > Have you seen Tormach's TTS for R8 spindles? It has some shortcomings
> > but solves the repeatability problem, and has shorter tool holders
> > than native R8 :
> >
> > http://wiki.makeitlabs.com/training/tormach-pcnc1100-cnc-milling-machi
> >ne/tool-holding
> >
> > It works on any R8 spindles that has a standard depth taper (some
> > don't, like my old import manual mill).
> >
> yes, in fact I have a 10 pack of them but all for ER32 holders. So there
> goes any usable repeatability because a 10 pack always needs 40 more.
>

It is not a problem to get 40 more. Tormach has online ordering, takes
credit cards and I just got an email saying that they are still shipping.




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Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Ed [mailto:ate...@mwt.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 3:51 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Suggestions for encoder cable?
>
> Title says most of it. Looking for 4 pair cable, power/ground on one
> pair, then A, B, Index pairs.
>
> As a quick and dirty I will set it up with Cat 5 cable to start then
> switch to something made for flexing.
>
> DigiKey shows 3 pair and 6 pair but not 4 in a flex cable.
>
>
> Ed.

How about https://www.cicoil.com/cat-6a-ethernet-cable/flex ?





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Re: [Emc-users] wild hare continued.

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 8:51 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] wild hare continued.
>
> On Thursday 02 April 2020 07:23:28 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 6:42 AM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] wild hare continued.
> > >
> > > Greetings Andy;
> > >
> > > I have some of the data transfers working, but I then recall you
> > > said G33.1 ran in metric internally.
> > >
> > > So if I am capturing data during the execution, but its in inches at
> > > the nc_file origin, the captured data being passed back needs to be
> > > *25.400 to be usefull, both as a display and as a correction to
> > > the Z stroke.
> > >
> > > The fact that m66 Enn uses #5399 regardless of the nn is being an
> > > obstacle. It means that I'll have to use some digital outputs to
> > > tally whether or not #5399 has been read and by whom.
> > >
> > > Could this use be expanded to a memory location dependent on ENN?
> > > That would greatly simplicate the gcode.
> > >
> > > Thanks Andy.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > > --
> >
> > I like the suggestion. I believe that the docs say that M66 Enn is
> > limited to nn=0 to 3. Tormach's PathPilot appears to allow nn=0 to 7.
> > If so, you need to allocate more than four cells to hold the most
> > recently read value. Just a consideration to avoid breaking stuff.
> >
> But thats expandable at load module time (top of your main hal file) by
> passing the num_dio=NN and num_aio=NN arguments. Up to 16 of each I've
> seen someplace. 4 is the default though.  But, I need to pass 2 floats
> to make what I want to do, works right. And I'll need to make sure that
> variable 00 never gets mixed with variable 01 by the sharing of a single
> #5399 placeholder for the gcode to retrieve and use. I'm sure there is a
> reason for the #5399, but so far I don't recall hearing it.
>
>  ???
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
My point was that allowing expansion of the number at HAL load time and
allocating a numbered variable for each possible input is problematic. You
might as well always allocate 16 and dispense with the parameter that
changes the maximum Enn. Just a thought.




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Re: [Emc-users] wild hare continued.

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2020 6:42 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] wild hare continued.
>
> Greetings Andy;
>
> I have some of the data transfers working, but I then recall you said
> G33.1 ran in metric internally.
>
> So if I am capturing data during the execution, but its in inches at the
> nc_file origin, the captured data being passed back needs to be
> *25.400 to be usefull, both as a display and as a correction to the
> Z stroke.
>
> The fact that m66 Enn uses #5399 regardless of the nn is being an
> obstacle. It means that I'll have to use some digital outputs to tally
> whether or not #5399 has been read and by whom.
>
> Could this use be expanded to a memory location dependent on ENN? That
> would greatly simplicate the gcode.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
I like the suggestion. I believe that the docs say that M66 Enn is limited
to nn=0 to 3. Tormach's PathPilot appears to allow nn=0 to 7. If so, you
need to allocate more than four cells to hold the most recently read value.
Just a consideration to avoid breaking stuff.




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Re: [Emc-users] CNC terminology

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:21 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] CNC terminology
>
> On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 15:19, R C  wrote:
>
> > to make it sound better,  maybe we should start calling CNC machining
> > "Subtractive Manufacturing", or has that already happened?
>
> It has already happened, to an extent.
>
> 3D printing is CNC after all, it even uses G-code[1]. So the
> distinction is useful.
>
> [1] In many cases, but not all
>
>
> --
> atp
Agreed, I've seen numerous references to "subtractive manufacturing" and have 
even used the term myself. The problem is that in our current world of spin 
being more important than substance, "subtractive" sounds negative.




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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc openlung ventilators

[Ken Strauss]

The loss of smell/taste symptom is all over: my morning paper, NY Times 
(https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-taste.html
 
 ), CNN 
(https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/health/coronavirus-symptoms-smell-intl/index.html
 
 ), etc.

> -Original Message-
> From: dave engvall [mailto:dengv...@charter.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:02 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc openlung ventilators
>
> Implications?
>
> Gleaned from a medical  site.
>
> "Coronavirus is enveloped, meaning the virus has coating on the outside
> of it. As it happens, the envelope means that the virus doesn't survive
> well outside of the body-they usually can't last longer than 24 hours
> outside of the body and usually only last less than 12. This is a good
> thing in terms of containing an outbreak. It also means coronavirus can
> be killed by hand sanitizer and soaps, which isn't the case with other
> types of viruses (most notoriously norovirus), so your biggest defense
> against coronavirus is washing your hands. The problem with viral
> envelopes is that they allow the virus to more easily evade your immune
> system. So, the enveloped virus has a disadvantage outside of a person,
> but once it gets in, the envelope gives it a dangerous edge. Enveloped
> viruses (which include influenza) tend to cause longer, more problematic
> infections for this reason and are more difficult to develop a vaccine
> for because of the envelope".
>
> Remember, FDA regs are meant to be all encompassing not just virus
> specific.  A virus is an obligate intracellular parasite. They are not
> very tough extracellular.  I think this makes the sterility barrier much
> lower. However, a damp warm environment is just perfect for bacterial
> and fungal growth. Still having a sub micron filter in line screens a
> lot of junk.
>
> Changing subjects slightly I read an unconfirmed note that one of the
> early symptoms of corona virus infection was a loss of smell.
> Interesting but single  source.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] about NML - RCS_CMD_CHANNEL/EMC_CMD_MSG - EMC_AUX_ESTOP_ON

[Ken Strauss]

If you want current infection data for analysis take a look at 
https://github.com/CSSEGISandData/COVID-19/tree/master/csse_covid_19_data/csse_covid_19_daily_reports





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Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Head

[Ken Strauss]

Perhaps I misread the original request but are the associated mills controlled 
by LinuxCNC? If so then Andy's comments seem perfect. If not, there are 
numerous online plans for Arduino controlled indexers.

> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:24 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Head
>
>
>
> > On 20 Feb 2020, at 14:25, Jeff Johnson  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts or ideas on the best way to pull this off? PC? RPi4? Which
>
> Why not add a 4th axis configuration to each machine that might use it? Then
> you can properly integrate the motion control?
>
> You can actually do it with a single config. I have a jumper in one of the
> connectors that the rotary connects through. If the system doesn't see the 
> link
> (via an IO pin) it doesn't enable the axis.
> Mine actually f-errors if you try to move the axis, but that would be easy 
> to fix.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring

[Ken Strauss]

Are the wires actually connected or just joined by a relatively low
resistance? My guess is 50/60 Hz power to red/black and 4mfd capacitor
between yellow and blue.

> -Original Message-
> From: grumpy--- via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 9:36 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Cc: gru...@mailfence.com
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT - simple motor wiring
>
> a friend gave me this gear motor
> he knows nothing about it and i can not find a wiring diagram i have
> confirmed with an ohm meter that the yellow and blue wires are connected
> and the red and black wires are connected any ideas




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Re: [Emc-users] Helical Gears

[Ken Strauss]

Perhaps I'm not looking at things the right way. Assuming that the A-axis is
horizontal and the spindle axis is perpendicular to the x/y-axis, I don't
think that "You could use compound motion _if_ you also rotate the indexer
relative to the table slots." will avoid distortion of the tooth form.

> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 6:18 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Helical Gears
>
>
>
> > On 25 Nov 2019, at 20:09, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> > Or does the X axis even need to be pivoted?  Can X and Y motion be co-
> ordinated to do the same thing or does the table physically have to
present
> the gear blank to the cutter with an angle as in the pivoting table?
>
> I take it you are talking about gear hobbing not cutting teeth one at a
time?
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4=44s
>
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PFTHY5U8v-U
>
> I think that the blank needs to be presented to the job at the correct
angle of
> the tooth form will be distorted due to the length of the engagement.
> You could use compound motion _if_ you also rotate the indexer relative to
> the table slots.
> A swinging table will have the advantage of angle graduations.
> I do have a plan for a micrometer stop to set mine to the exact angle.
With a
> cunningly-shaped contact block a mm micrometer can be made to read direct
> degrees. I have it all designed and the parts bought. But, well, you know
how
> it is.
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Re: [Emc-users] Helical Gears

[Ken Strauss]

Is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rsKuE90rjE what you mean?
That is a personal video but there are others on YouTube if you search for
"helical gear CNC"

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2019 3:33 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Helical Gears
>
> On Monday 25 November 2019 14:09:00 John Dammeyer wrote:
>
> > I'm not even close to being able to do this yet but I've been perusing
> > youtube videos and I have a question.
> >
> > https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-9-x-39-2-HP-Horizontal-Vertic
> >al-Mill-with-Power-Feed/G0757
> >
> > This particular Grizzly mill like the older G3617 has a horizontal
> > mill feature and the ability to rotate the X axis table.  There are a
> > number of videos out there that show that when the rotary indexer is
> > coupled with gearing to the X axis drive and the table is pivoted to
> > say 20 degrees that the horizontal mill with a gear cutter can turn
> > out helical gears.  Doesn't look like any sort of spindle coupling is
> > needed.
> >
> > Now change to a LinuxCNC controlled "A" Axis Rotary Indexer and a
> > pivoted X axis table the indexer could be slaved to the X axis in
> > software to accomplish the same thing.  Is that correct?
> >
> > Or does the X axis even need to be pivoted?  Can X and Y motion be
> > co-ordinated to do the same thing or does the table physically have to
> > present the gear blank to the cutter with an angle as in the pivoting
> > table?
> >
> > If simultaneous motion does duplicate the angled table,  then if the
> > gear cutter is in the spindle will co-ordinated X,Z and A result in
> > the same thing as the gear driven helical gear cutting?
> >
> > And how would you even write G-Code to do this?
> >
> > Just curious at the moment.
> >
> > Thanks
> > John
>
> Offhand, I've not done it either, but it seems to me that Y could be
> moved at the angle needed by arriving at the y distance as being the
> angle derived from the X distance as a transcendental function, but z
> would also need to be moved up and down.  That would then be a g2 or g3
> function whose radii was half the diameter of the gear.  I think I'd cut
> a lot of air verifying it though.
>
> Next question: short of having a handfull of the tool custom ground,
> where would you get a suitable tool?  I've not seen such a critter for
> sale.
>
> Another possibility would be rotation of the co-ordinate map so as the
> make successive teeth by a step shift of x.  Or better yet a nice rigid
> rotary table, with which I have made the spiral flutes of an emergency
> drill bit with.  Mine weren't all that precise because the table is a
> POS from India, but it did get the job done, as in how precise do you
> have to be when drilling construction treated wood?  Not very.
>
> Just throwing it out there, no clue if it will stick. ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > www dot autoartisans dot com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Wizards for LinuxCNC

[Ken Strauss]

If you want to play with the PathPilot "wizards", go to 
https://www.tormach.com/pathpilot/ and try the free virtual machine (PathPilot 
HUB).

> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 1:44 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wizards for LinuxCNC
>
> I understand what you are trying to do, John, and it doesn't work quite like
> the Windows world that Mach 3/ Mach 4 live in.
>
> In the interests of not reinventing the wheel Path Pilot is available from
> Tormach for ~ $25, here:
>
> https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom=prodshow=3
> 8249
>
> This software runs on Linux.  It expects to find itself on a particular 
> hardware
> platform and will not work if it does not.  That isn't necessarily a 
> disaster
> because there are ways around it:
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
>
> As you will see, this is a work in process and depends on people helping
> people to get it working.  If you can get it working on your hardware, you 
> will
> only have to do this ONCE.  This seems like something the a typical Windows
> user might find a *little* more palatable than constantly working off a
> command line "1970's approach" :-) I haven't done this yet myself because I
> enjoy the things the Linux can do that Windows cannot and I really like what
> Linuxcnc can do vs Mach 3.
>
> I guess before anybody looks at spending $25 and possibly a lot of time and
> maybe frustration getting Path Pilot working, you ought to take a look and 
> see
> if it does what you want?  Here's a very limited start, a far from 
> exhaustive
> list:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixjxNq9Cnpk
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd7IzOGtFKY
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puZednzlsY0
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3iCs1-hyAc
>
> I hope that helps?
>
> Martin
>
> 
> From: John Dammeyer 
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 11:58 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Wizards for LinuxCNC
>
> HI Andy,
>
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 06:03, John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > So what can I tie into LinuxCNC that does the same thing?
> >
> > For that sort of job I do typically just type G-code in the MDI
> > window. You can queue commands.
> > So I will often start the spindle, jog to the start depth, then type
> > G1 X10 Y0
> > G1 X10 Y10
> > G1 X-10 Y10
> > G1 X-10 Y-10
> > G1 X10 Y-10
>
> I started keying in those numbers into a quicky .ngc G-Code program and then
> realized I'd fallen back into the trap of if you want something in Linux 
> just use
> a terminal window and the command line;  1970's approach to using
> computers.
>
> It was at that point that I stopped.  Rebooted and ran WIN-XP.  Ran MACH3
> and used a wizard.  That took less time since I also wanted to bore the
> counter sink hole for the hold down bolt and they have a wizard for that 
> too.
>
> >
> > (to make squares and rectangles you end up just switching the sign of a
> > number)
> > I see this as the equivalent of using the power feeds on a manual mill.
> >
> And yes I do that too.  But I've also accidentally forgotten the '-' sign 
> and had
> to hit the ESTOP as it heads to a clamp.
>
> But you are right!
>
> In my case I had the 0,0 position set where I'd first drilled the 3/8" hole 
> for the
> clamp bolt.  Then I wanted the counter sink still done at 0,0 for a depth of
> 0.3".  After that I had to remove the outside clamps.  Set up the middle 
> clamp
> bolt whose head was now recessed.  And then set up a new 0,0 position.
>
> Now I can just do the command line G1 instructions as you suggested.
>
> > For more complicated jobs, have you looked at NativeCAM?
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/nativecam/32891-use-nativecam-as-a-deb-
> > package-now
>
> I'll take a look. Thanks.
> >
> > Videos: https://youtu.be/m7Ob8wyItpg
> >
>
> John
>
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] misters for really small setups?

[Ken Strauss]

For the brass tubing I suspect that you are thinking of K Precision
Metals. See http://www.ksmetals.com/RetailLocations.html for a list of their
retail outlets.

Alternatively try:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=brass+tubing=industrial=n%3A16310091%2Cp_n_f
eature_eleven_browse-bin%3A3622112011%2Cp_89%3AK+%26+S+Precision+Metals%7CK%
26S+Engineering





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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ

[Ken Strauss]

I have been following this thread with interest and decided to make try at a 
parametric program to generate circular pockets. It is slightly different from 
some of the others discussed in that it uses polar coordinates to generate the 
desired spiral.

It has been tested extensively (one successful run with one set of parameters 
on one machine) so exercise extreme caution! That said, it sounds smooth on my 
Tormach and I would appreciate any questions, comments or suggestions for 
improvements.

(modified KRS 27 Sep 19)
(Based on: https://gist.github.com/reox/a60c67db53eb563a4f8e)
#<_pocketDia>= 1.5
#<_pocketRad> = [#<_pocketDia> / 2]
#<_pocketX>  = 0.000
#<_pocketY>  = 0.000
#<_pocketZ>  = 0.000
#<_finalZ>   = -0.5


#<_toolNum>  = 43
#<_feedIPM>  = 40
#<_feedRPM>  = 
#<_toolDoC>  = 0.1
#<_WoCfact>  = 0.25 ; max WoC = 25% of tool diameter


G20   ; inches rather than metric
G90   ; absolute coordinates
G92.1 ; no offsets
G30   ; ensure in a good place
G54   ; set coordinate system
G17   ; active plane is XY

T#<_toolNum> M6 G43 H#<_toolNum>
#<_toolDia> = #5410
#<_toolRad> = [#<_toolDia> / 2]
#<_toolWoC> = [#<_toolDia> * #<_WocFact>]   ; calculate Width of Cut
; calculate # turns with allowed maximum WoC
#<_turns> = [FUP[[#<_pocketRad> - #<_toolRad>] / #<_toolWoC>] ] ; number of 
turns to pocket circle
; adjust WoC downwards to get exact total cut
(debug,#<_toolWoC> is maximum WoC)
#<_toolWoC> = [[#<_pocketRad> - #<_toolRad> - #<_toolWoc>] / #<_turns>]
(debug,#<_toolWoC> is adjusted WoC)
#<_toolWoC> = [[#<_pocketRad> - #<_toolRad> - #<_toolWoc>] / #<_turns>]
(debug,#<_toolWoC> is actual WoC)
; first helix down in the middle of the pocket
; the diameter of the helix is the tool diameter + stepover
#<_helixTurns> = FUP[[#<_pocketZ> - #<_finalZ>]/ #<_toolDoC>]
; adjust DoC to get integral number of turns
#<_toolDoC> = [-[#<_pocketZ> + #<_finalZ>]/#<_helixTurns>]
(debug,#<_helixTurns> helix turns)
(debug,#<_toolDoC> adjusted DoC)
#<_helixFeed> = [#<_feedIPM> / 2] ; feed slower in helix
M3 S#<_feedRPM>  ; set spindle RPM
F#<_helixFeed>   ; set feed IPM
G0 X#<_pocketX> Y#<_pocketY> Z#<_pocketZ>
G3 I#<_toolWoC> Z#<_finalZ> P#<_helixTurns>

F#<_feedIPM> ; set feed rate for clearing cuts
( we will approximate the desired spiral #<_segments>]segments)
#<_segments> = 40
#<_degrees> = [360 / #<_segments>]
( so to go #<_turns> requires #<_segments> * #<_turns> moves)
#<_moves> = [#<_segments> * #<_turns>] ; # turns to clear pocket
#<_currentZ> = #<_pocketZ>
(debug,#<_currentZ> initial currentZ)
o200 repeat [#<_helixTurns>]
G90
G0 X#<_pocketX> Y#<_pocketZ>
#<_currentZ> = [#<_currentZ> - #<_toolDoC>]
G0 Z#<_currentZ>
G91 G1 X#<_toolWoC> Y0 ; offset from pocket centre by WoC
G92 X#<_toolWoC> Y0; offset coordinate system

o100 repeat [#<_moves>]
(we must increase the radius of each segment by [#<_toolWoC> / #<_segments>])
(following magic move is in polar coordinates)
g91 G1 @[#<_toolWoC> / #<_segments>] ^[#<_degrees>]

o100 endrepeat

G92.1 ; reset coordinate offset
G90   ; absolute coordinates
G91.1 ; absolute arc mode

(do a real circle at to finish current pocket level)
G1 X[#<_pocketRad> - #<_toolRad>]
G3 I[#<_toolRad>-#<_pocketRad>-#<_pocketX>]

o200 endrepeat

G0 Z[#<_finalZ>+.005]; move off the pocket bottom to prevent marks
G0 X#<_pocketX> Y#<_pocketY> ; move to centre of pocket
M5   ; spindle off
G0 Z[#<_pocketZ>]; retract to top of pocket
G30
M30




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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ

[Ken Strauss]

I'm not sure what is happening behind the scenes but under Pathpilot you can
configure G30 to only move in Z. I've used that feature for years without
realizing that it was non-standard. From the Tormach manual:

Go to G30 Button - Causes the mill to move to a pre-defined G30 position,
and is equivalent to typing G30 in the MDI Line. This G30 position can be
set using the Set G30 button on the Offsets tab. Operators familiar with
M998 will notice that the behavior of G30 is identical to M998. By default,
the move to the G30 position is in Z only. This can be changed on the
Settings tab.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 6:54 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
>
>
> > My G30 is setup to move in Z only.
>
> I'm a bit confused here then.
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G30-G30_1
>
>
> This goes at max speed to Z 0.5 which makes sense.
> G0 Z 0.5000 (Z Clear)
>
> This part is also clear.
> M9 (Coolant OFF)
> M5 (Spindle OFF)
>
> This moves only the Z axis?  Shouldn't it also go to the preset locations
after it
> goes to Z0.5?
> G30 Z 0.5 (Go in Z only to preset G30 location)
>
> And now it heads to all the preset locations which would then move Z back
to
> the preset location unless that is 0.5 in which case there is no movement.
> G30 (Go to preset G30 location)
>
> I'll try running yours again after I do a G30.1 to a known place a bit
closer than
> machine 0,0,0.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ

[Ken Strauss]

My G30 is setup to move in Z only.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:59 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ
>
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> >
> > It would certainly be shorter if they did a little looping!
> > I'm unclear why they vary the feed with each segment.
>
> It does run on my LinuxCNC like a charm once I remove the request for the
> unknown tool.  Very smooth sounding.
>
> Also a bit scary each time when it heads over to Machine 0,0,0 at the end.
> The G30.  Wasn't expecting that.  Thought it was maybe heading into the
> bushes although so far my limit switches have worked well when I've screwed
> up.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ

[Ken Strauss]

It would certainly be shorter if they did a little looping!
I'm unclear why they vary the feed with each segment.
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 5:08 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ
>
> Fascinating.  Doesn't really do a spiral at all after the initial helical
entry to cut
> the starting hole. Then just a series of short straight moves until it's
roughed
> out the hole and then does one circular finish pass.
>
> Nice to see how well the Tormach documents each of the moves.  I really
like
> that.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-24-19 1:45 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ
> >
> > I decided to see what Tormach generates with their conversational
> > programming
> > in PathPilot (LinuxCNC pretty face). I don't recall the original
parameters so
> > I requested a circular pocket, 0.5 deep, 1.0 diameter, at 0,0, 0.5 DoC,
> > 1/4-inch cutter (what was in the spindle). It spirals down in a 1/2
pocket to
> > full depth and then does a spiral out. I'm happy to try different
parameters.
> > (Mill - Circular Pocket G-code generated: Tue Sep 24 16:36:41 2019 )
> > (PathPilot Version: 2.2.4)
> > (Description = circletest)
> > (Material = Aluminum : -any-)
> >
> > (Units = G20 inches)
> > (Work Offset = G54)
> > (Tool Number = 43)
> > (Tool Description = 0.25 2 flute)
> > (Tool Diameter = 0.2500 inches)
> > (Spindle RPM = )
> >
> > (Pocket Centers)
> > (1  X = 0.   Y = 0.)
> >
> > (Pocket Diameter = 1.)
> > (Feed Rate = 30.0 inches/minute)
> > (Stepover = 0.0500)
> >
> > (Z Clear Location = 0.5000)
> > (Z Start Location = 0. , End Location = -0.5000)
> > (Z Depth of Cut = 0.5000 , Adjusted = 0.5000)
> > (Number of Z Passes = 1)
> > (Z Feed Rate = 15.0 inches/minute)
> >
> >
> > (- Start of G-code -)
> > ()
> >
> > G17 G90  (XY Plane, Absolute Distance Mode)
> > G64 P 0.0050 Q 0. (Path Blending)
> > G20 (units in inches)
> > G54 (Work Offset)
> >
> > G30 (Go to preset G30 location)
> > T43 M6 G43 H43
> >
> > F 30.0 (Feed Rate, inches/minute)
> > S  (RPM)
> > M8 (Coolant ON)
> > M3 (Spindle ON, Forward)
> >
> > (*** Pocket 1 ***)
> >
> > (Helical Entry, Z Pass 1)
> > G0 X 0. Y 0.1250
> > G0 Z 0.5000
> > G0 Z 0.
> > F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G3 X 0.1228 Y 0.0236 Z -0.5000 P 18. I 0. J -0.1250
> > G3 X 0.1228 Y 0.0236 Z -0.5000 P 1. I -0.1228 J -0.0236
> > F 30.0 (Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0. Y 0.
> > G0 Z 0.5000 (Z Clear)
> >
> > (Spiral, Z Pass 1)
> > G0 X 0. Y 0.
> > G0 Z 0.5000
> > G0 Z -0.5000
> >
> > (Spiral)
> > F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1250 Y 0.
> > F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1252 Y 0.0110
> > F 15.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1245 Y 0.0219
> > F 15.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1228 Y 0.0329
> > F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1201 Y 0.0437
> > F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1164 Y 0.0543
> > F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1119 Y 0.0646
> > F 15.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1064 Y 0.0745
> > F 15.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.1000 Y 0.0839
> > F 15.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0928 Y 0.0928
> > F 15.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0848 Y 0.1011
> > F 15.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0761 Y 0.1087
> > F 15.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0667 Y 0.1155
> > F 15.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0566 Y 0.1215
> > F 15.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0461 Y 0.1266
> > F 15.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0350 Y 0.1308
> > F 15.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0236 Y 0.1340
> > F 15.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0.0119 Y 0.1363
> > F 15.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X 0. Y 0.1375
> > F 15.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X -0.0120 Y 0.1377
> > F 15.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X -0.0241 Y 0.1368
> > F 15.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
> > G1 X -0.0361 Y 0.1348
> > F 15.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute

Re: [Emc-users] G-Code issue with IJ

[Ken Strauss]

I decided to see what Tormach generates with their conversational programming 
in PathPilot (LinuxCNC pretty face). I don't recall the original parameters so 
I requested a circular pocket, 0.5 deep, 1.0 diameter, at 0,0, 0.5 DoC, 
1/4-inch cutter (what was in the spindle). It spirals down in a 1/2 pocket to 
full depth and then does a spiral out. I'm happy to try different parameters.
(Mill - Circular Pocket G-code generated: Tue Sep 24 16:36:41 2019 )
(PathPilot Version: 2.2.4)
(Description = circletest)
(Material = Aluminum : -any-)

(Units = G20 inches)
(Work Offset = G54)
(Tool Number = 43)
(Tool Description = 0.25 2 flute)
(Tool Diameter = 0.2500 inches)
(Spindle RPM = )

(Pocket Centers)
(1  X = 0.   Y = 0.)

(Pocket Diameter = 1.)
(Feed Rate = 30.0 inches/minute)
(Stepover = 0.0500)

(Z Clear Location = 0.5000)
(Z Start Location = 0. , End Location = -0.5000)
(Z Depth of Cut = 0.5000 , Adjusted = 0.5000)
(Number of Z Passes = 1)
(Z Feed Rate = 15.0 inches/minute)


(- Start of G-code -)
()

G17 G90  (XY Plane, Absolute Distance Mode)
G64 P 0.0050 Q 0. (Path Blending)
G20 (units in inches)
G54 (Work Offset)

G30 (Go to preset G30 location)
T43 M6 G43 H43

F 30.0 (Feed Rate, inches/minute)
S  (RPM)
M8 (Coolant ON)
M3 (Spindle ON, Forward)

(*** Pocket 1 ***)

(Helical Entry, Z Pass 1)
G0 X 0. Y 0.1250
G0 Z 0.5000
G0 Z 0.
F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G3 X 0.1228 Y 0.0236 Z -0.5000 P 18. I 0. J -0.1250
G3 X 0.1228 Y 0.0236 Z -0.5000 P 1. I -0.1228 J -0.0236
F 30.0 (Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0. Y 0.
G0 Z 0.5000 (Z Clear)

(Spiral, Z Pass 1)
G0 X 0. Y 0.
G0 Z 0.5000
G0 Z -0.5000

(Spiral)
F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1250 Y 0.
F 15.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1252 Y 0.0110
F 15.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1245 Y 0.0219
F 15.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1228 Y 0.0329
F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1201 Y 0.0437
F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1164 Y 0.0543
F 15.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1119 Y 0.0646
F 15.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1064 Y 0.0745
F 15.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.1000 Y 0.0839
F 15.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0928 Y 0.0928
F 15.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0848 Y 0.1011
F 15.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0761 Y 0.1087
F 15.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0667 Y 0.1155
F 15.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0566 Y 0.1215
F 15.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0461 Y 0.1266
F 15.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0350 Y 0.1308
F 15.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0236 Y 0.1340
F 15.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0119 Y 0.1363
F 15.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0. Y 0.1375
F 15.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0120 Y 0.1377
F 15.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0241 Y 0.1368
F 15.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0361 Y 0.1348
F 15.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0480 Y 0.1318
F 15.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0596 Y 0.1278
F 15.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0708 Y 0.1227
F 16.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0817 Y 0.1166
F 16.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0920 Y 0.1096
F 16.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1016 Y 0.1016
F 16.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1107 Y 0.0928
F 16.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1189 Y 0.0832
F 16.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1263 Y 0.0729
F 16.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1328 Y 0.0619
F 16.2 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1383 Y 0.0504
F 16.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1429 Y 0.0383
F 16.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1464 Y 0.0258
F 16.3 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1487 Y 0.0130
F 16.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1500 Y 0.
F 16.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1501 Y -0.0131
F 16.4 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1491 Y -0.0263
F 16.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1469 Y -0.0394
F 16.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1436 Y -0.0523
F 16.5 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1391 Y -0.0649
F 16.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1335 Y -0.0771
F 16.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1269 Y -0.0888
F 16.6 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1192 Y -0.1000
F 16.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1105 Y -0.1105
F 16.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.1009 Y -0.1202
F 16.7 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0904 Y -0.1291
F 16.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0792 Y -0.1371
F 16.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0672 Y -0.1441
F 16.8 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0546 Y -0.1501
F 16.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0415 Y -0.1550
F 16.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0280 Y -0.1587
F 16.9 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0.0141 Y -0.1612
F 17.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X -0. Y -0.1625
F 17.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0142 Y -0.1626
F 17.0 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0285 Y -0.1614
F 17.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0426 Y -0.1590
F 17.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0565 Y -0.1553
F 17.1 (Arc Feed, inches/minute)
G1 X 0.0701 Y -0.1504
F 

Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Ken Strauss]

There have been some updates and photos added to the CNCzone 7i92 thread.
See
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/354420-tormach-software.ht
ml


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 11:16 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
>
> Thanks.  At the moment I'm running it from a small AC to 5V adaptor but
> that's one more thing plugged into AC power. I do have a 5V output from
the
> BoB that I can use.  Just have to wire it into the 7i92H.
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > Sent: September-09-19 3:52 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is
> > better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially
> > noisy system ground.
> >
> > Les
> >
> > On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB
> > definitely couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB
> > optically isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or
expects the
> > motor driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an
isolated
> > supply that is not connected to the PC side.
> > >
> > > Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V
> power
> > into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> > ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground
> is
> > not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> > recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> > connector but I don't remember for sure.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power

[Ken Strauss]

Or power the BoB from the 7i92. See
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/354420-tormach-software.ht
ml for another user's approach.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2019 11:16 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
>
> Thanks.  At the moment I'm running it from a small AC to 5V adaptor but
that's
> one more thing plugged into AC power. I do have a 5V output from the BoB
that
> I can use.  Just have to wire it into the 7i92H.
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Les Newell [mailto:les.new...@fastmail.co.uk]
> > Sent: September-09-19 3:52 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] MESA 7i92H Power
> >
> > Yes you can run it using a supply derived from 24V. In my opinion it is
> > better that way as it keeps the computer isolated from the potentially
> > noisy system ground.
> >
> > Les
> >
> > On 09/09/2019 04:30, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > Quick question.  Running signals from the parallel port to the BoB
> > definitely couples the PC Ground into the Bob.  Generally then the BoB
> > optically isolates the PC signals from the rest of the system  Or
expects the
> > motor driver to do it.  And for the rest the BoB is supplied with an
isolated
> > supply that is not connected to the PC side.
> > >
> > > Since Ethernet runs the 7i92H and it comes from the PC does the 5V
power
> > into the 7i92H have to have the 5V DC Ground common with the PC DC
> > ground?  Or can the 5V be derived from a 24V power supply whose ground
is
> > not common with the PC ground because there's no direct connection.  I
> > recall something about PCs using transformers inside the RJ-45 Ethernet
> > connector but I don't remember for sure.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: loctiting cutters

[Ken Strauss]

My concern would be that Loctite requires a gap between the cutter and the 
holder. Is there a guarantee that concentricity would be maintained?

BTW: Heat will release even the red Loctite. See 
https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/ca/en/insights/all-insights/blog/how-to-remove-red-threadlocker.html
 
for details.

> -Original Message-
> From: Roland Jollivet [mailto:roland.jolli...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 3:35 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT: loctiting cutters
>
> Hi All
>
> Was wondering what you guys think about loctiting cutters in place, as a
> principle.
>
> First, here is a typical 2.2kW spindle
>  spindle-2-2kw-220v-iso20-3rpm-detail>
> . It has a max torque of 1.75N.m  (ISO20 taper)
>
> Now what if I MADE a tool holder that looks.. like this
>  shrink fit holder, but
> instead of shrink-fitting say, a 6mm jobber drill, I just loctited the bit
> in place. That's all.
>
> Below is the property of the Red loctite. I can't see how any drill bit or
> cutter would come loose given approx 20mm of engagement. (slip fit)
> While it is unorthodox, it's quite in keeping with today's glued-together
> world..
> Does anyone see an obvious reason why it's not in practice?
>
> Roland
>
> PS, I don't ever want to remove it..
>
> Type Typical color code   Torque to break free(3?8-16 size bolt)
> Torque to continue turning   Temperature range
> High strength
> ? Red
> 230 in-lb (25 N?m) 225 in-lb (25
> N?m)?54 to 149 °C
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Possible controller?

[Ken Strauss]

A good suggestion. In order of decreasing importance my requirements are:

RELIABLE, R*E*L*E*A*B*L*E!

Either the computer is sealed or it will fit into a small sealed box. It
will be rather close to a mill using air blast for chip evacuation. Thus, no
fan because the chips travel everywhere.

All hardware is supported by a basic LinuxCNC installation

Several USB ports for connection to touch screen, keyboard, coolant pointer,
etc. The computer linked earlier would require using a USB hub.

Two Ethernet ports for connection to 7i92 + for file transfer

HDMI or DisplayPort interface to monitor

Either current product or generic enough that replacements can be obtained
for at least the next few years with no need to change the mounting
arrangements.

Low cost is good but paying a few hundred additional to achieve all of the
above is not particularly important.

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2019 1:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Possible controller?
>
> Of course something like that would work.  There are MANY of these small
> form factor computers. But what is the goal?  To save cubic inches in
> the shop? to save money? to save electrical power?
>
> Until you have a stated goal you can't know what is "best". If what
you
> are looking for is "compute power per dollar in a compact space" the buy
an
> HP server in a 1U
>
> chassis that just came off lease.  They will be about 4X more powerful and
> 1/2 the price of these mini-PCs. But they take up more cubic inches of
> space.
>
> It helps to actually write down the goals and then fill in a little table
> with specs from various proposed solutions.  Choose the "best" from data
> you collected.
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 7:39 AM Ken Strauss  wrote:
>
> > I got a popup advert for a product that might be useful as a machine
> > controller:
> > https://www.logicsupply.com/computers/industrial/fanless/cl200-series/
> > The CL210-G10 with a Mesa 7i92 seems an attractive choice. Has anyone
> tried
> > this?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
> ___
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[Emc-users] Possible controller?

[Ken Strauss]

I got a popup advert for a product that might be useful as a machine
controller:
https://www.logicsupply.com/computers/industrial/fanless/cl200-series/
The CL210-G10 with a Mesa 7i92 seems an attractive choice. Has anyone tried
this?




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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach

[Ken Strauss]

There was some discussion about this on cnczone and I believe that the
conclusion was that they would send the files to anyone. Go to
https://www.tormach.com/store/index.php?app=ecom=prodshow=38249 if
you want to order your personal copy.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 7:20 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach
>
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: June-10-19 3:19 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach
> >
> > I neglected to answer you other question:
> > Tormach's Python source files are on every distribution flashdrive (the
> > distribution is too big for a DVD). For a small fee ($25?) Tormach will
send
> > all source files on a DVD.
> >
>
> Ah but probably only to registered users?
> This sort of thing could easily be put online.
>
> There are various screen sets for LinuxCNC.
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/user/user-intro.html#_modes_of_operation
>
> Just curious why the Tormach one isn't up there I guess.
> John
>
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 5:37 PM
> > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > > Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach
> > >
> > > Got a Design World mailing today with an advertisement for Tormach
Path
> > > Pilot titled the brains behind CNC.  And a link to this video.
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puZednzlsY0
> > >
> > > In the comments section an answer to a request about replacing MACH3
> with
> > > Path Pilot was that if you own a Tormach yes but if not, then no.
> > >
> > > Since Tormach makes extensive use of LinuxCNC to sell their product,
does
> > > that not mean that they are required to release their Path Pilot?
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach

[Ken Strauss]

I neglected to answer you other question:
Tormach's Python source files are on every distribution flashdrive (the
distribution is too big for a DVD). For a small fee ($25?) Tormach will send
all source files on a DVD.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 5:37 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach
>
> Got a Design World mailing today with an advertisement for Tormach Path
> Pilot titled the brains behind CNC.  And a link to this video.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puZednzlsY0
>
> In the comments section an answer to a request about replacing MACH3 with
> Path Pilot was that if you own a Tormach yes but if not, then no.
>
> Since Tormach makes extensive use of LinuxCNC to sell their product, does
> that not mean that they are required to release their Path Pilot?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach

[Ken Strauss]

As a Tormach owner for a number of years:
My machine came with Mach3 installed. Perhaps 3 years ago all owners were
emailed an upgrade notice suggesting that PathPilot was great and that an
upgrade required the purchase of a Mesa 5i25 card + an install DVD costing a
total of a little more than $100. It is not official but a Mesa 7i92 now
also works with no PP user modifications required.

There have been no upgrades/bug fixes to Mach3 since the initial release of
PP although there have been numerous upgrades to PP. There is no pressure to
change to PP if one is happy with Mach3. That said, it has been made clear
that there will be no further upgrades to Mach3. In addition, newer Tormach
machines such as PCNC440, the new servo based PCNC770MX and PCNC1100MX  and
RapidTurn are not supported in Mach3.

Please feel free to ask questions if the above is unclear. I have been a PP
user since their beta.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 5:37 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] LinuxCNC and Tormach
>
> Got a Design World mailing today with an advertisement for Tormach Path
> Pilot titled the brains behind CNC.  And a link to this video.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puZednzlsY0
>
> In the comments section an answer to a request about replacing MACH3 with
> Path Pilot was that if you own a Tormach yes but if not, then no.
>
> Since Tormach makes extensive use of LinuxCNC to sell their product, does
> that not mean that they are required to release their Path Pilot?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC

[Ken Strauss]

Have you considered trying single flute endmills? With single flute you
could run at twice the RPM of 2 flute and the same chip loads and axis
speeds. That might solve the problem of insufficient power for high speed
movement and insufficient low speed spindle torque.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2019 1:18 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Dual boot for WIN-XP and LinuxCNC
>
> On Monday 03 June 2019 12:16:09 pm Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > On 06/03/2019 10:02 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > >  Mach4 is unknown to me and requires a phone home
> > > license.  Is there a compelling reason to go there?
> >
> > Does this mean Mach4 will no longer run if Artsoft closes or
> > changes their net address?
> > Yikes, I sure would not want to be locked in like that!
> >
> > Jon
> >
> If they change the address, but not the name, and Artsoft updates that
> address at the root dns servers in a timely manner, it should fix
> itsself in a day max.  But if they change the name, the doo-doo quickly
> gets pretty deep.
>
> IMO (mach, either 3 or 4) is off the table for exactly that reason.
>
> And the interface in the control box that comes with a 6040 gantry is
> designed only for mach3 and that severely limits what linuxcnc can do,
> no home switch, no limit switches, and by then I was so pissed I never
> checked for a G38.2 input. All it can do is start and stop the spindle
> motor at what ever speed the knob is set for, no speed, no reverse
> despite the fact that its vfd does have those inputs, but they don't
> work.
>
> So in the end that whole shebang is now holding down the lid on a can of
> paint, replaced by a new 5i25<->7i76 interface, and the psu and motor
> drivers that used to run my hf mill. Which means I have a clone vfd
> running the spindle too.  So I got a reverse too. The motor drivers,
> tb6560's, are probably ok, but the psu needs 5 more amps to drive all 4
> axis's, doing a foldback to about 14 volts from its 24 volt label. My
> old psu is 28 volts at 12.5 amps and just sits there, running cool with
> all motors plugged in.
>
> I gotta learn how fast to run the spindle though, even with coolant, alu
> welds itself into a tool gullets pretty quickly at >10k revs. I have
> some tooling sitting in 3/8" of liquid drano eating the alu out of the
> gullets.  Slower than lye, but working.
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

Is it possible that the 3/4-inch shank is not properly relieved at the end
where it meets the inside of the special TTS flange? If so and the nose of
the R8 is not flat it might keep the collet from gripping firmly.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:52 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2019 19:53:52 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > The end (away from the threaded end) of the R8 holder is flat rather
> > than slightly convex. This is required to allow the flange of the TTS
> > holder to touch the spindle nose.
> >
> Which might make it very marginally more rigid.  If it makes a useable
> diff, its fixable.  I have a CBN cup and a couple rotary tables.
>
> Thanks Ken.
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.

[Ken Strauss]

Perhaps things have changed after I purchased my copy several years ago but
I still get frequent updates.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:35 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2019 17:33:36 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > The one-year price buys a perpetual licence for small machines (less
> > than 1.5HP as I recall).
> >
> I didn't see that, didn't click on the buy now button either. But
> figuratively speaking all my machines could probably qualify.  Clicked
> on the annual button, but it still doesn't show that.  So I've sent Mr
> Woodward an email.
>
> Thank Ken.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

The end (away from the threaded end) of the R8 holder is flat rather than 
slightly convex. This is required to allow the flange of the TTS holder to 
touch the spindle nose.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 7:45 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2019 14:51:31 Bruce Layne wrote:
>
> > Thank you Ken!
> >
> > I don't have a Tormach but I do use the Tormach Tooling System on my 2
> > HP milling machine.  I typically use it for machining plastic or
> > aluminum but I've taken serious cuts in steel numerous times and never
> > had any problem with tool pull out.  The tool stays in the TTS ER20
> > collet holder (Tormach brand or the Chinese knock offs) and the TTS
> > tool holder stays in the modified 3/4" R8 collet.  When I install a
> > new TTS tool holder, I snug the drawbar with a 3/8" ratchet with a one
> > foot long handle.  I don't use the long handle for torque.  I use it
> > to clear the head of the milling machine.  Similarly, I don't need
> > much torque to loosen the modified R8 collet to remove a TTS tool
> > holder, but I generally do need to tap the top of the draw bar after
> > loosening the drawbar to release the TTS tool holder.
> >
> > I don't need to use an impact wrench to tighten and loosen the drawbar
> > to prevent TTS tooling from pulling out.  Something isn't right there,
> > Gene.  Maybe some of the grease you're using on the drawbar threads
> > made its way into the 3/4" interior of the modified R8 collet?
>
> Possible, but whats this about a "modified R8 collet"?
>
> [snip]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.

[Ken Strauss]

Or windows.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 7:42 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2019 14:21:24 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > Consider: https://hsmadvisor.com/
>
> Apple or android only.  Sob.
>
> [...]
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.

[Ken Strauss]

The one-year price buys a perpetual licence for small machines (less than
1.5HP as I recall).

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 5:01 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2019 13:11:01 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>
> [...]
> > Hi Gene
> >
> > Did you ever try out Bob Warfield's software?
> > https://www.cnccookbook.com/
>
> No, but I've heard good things about it, so when the next hour+ job turns
> up, its bookmarked.
>
> Thanks for the link. It did not turn up in a google search earlier today,
> and it should have.
> >
> One year for 80 bucks would be enough to decide on a lifetime license.
> But at 84 now, one has to wonder if his name is on the call-up list for
> next week.
>
> I take it its in python or other portable language, it gives no
> requirements to run it.
>
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.

[Ken Strauss]

Consider: https://hsmadvisor.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:09 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.
>
> On Sunday 21 April 2019 03:40:08 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 21 Apr 2019 at 03:34, John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> > > I used the Machinist toolbox to figure out what sort of speed and
> > > feed I needed but ended up running the mill faster (thought I'd read
> > > it should be 3000 but it was supposed to be 2000).  Typo error. OK.
> > > So tool bit 0.09375.  Two flutes.  HSS. Chip load 0.00551. Aluminium
> > > bar. SFM set at 40 which called for 2000 RPM and about 22 ipm
> >
> > That sounds slow at the spindle, I have been running at 8500 rpm and a
> > 2.5mm cutter in tool steel.
> >
> > FSWizard on my phone is suggesting 589 fpm (180 m/min) surface speed,
> > 24,000 rpm and 15 in/min (388mm/min) for your <2.5mm cutter.
> > (So 10x the spindle speed but lower feedrate)
> >
> > I suspect that Gene has the opposite problem, I am suspecting his feed
> > rate was too low if the swarf comes off as dust. (but he didn't
> > specify feed rate)
>
> It was in retrospect too slow for the revs once I had some mist flowing,
> 5 ipm to a max of 10 I think. Where can I get a copy of this machinist
> toolbox.  Sounds handy. The handbook covers this too, but in hard to
> find format since theres around 2k pages of it.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.

[Ken Strauss]

If you are getting chips that are "almost dust" you have a serious problem
with your speeds/feeds. Increase your feed rate and/or reduce the tool rpm.
You should always be getting real chips. I find that ZrN (Zirconium Nitride)
coating on the cutters helps significantly to reduce chip welding in soft
aluminum.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 8:58 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] milling tool life, or lack thereof.
>
> Greetings all;
>
> Having discovered the settings that control the low frequency boost in
> this VFD, and having rigged a pretty dry misting arrangement, I figured
> it was as good a time as any to cut the end panels of the box that has
> the interface cards in it.  These panels are about .035" thick, and are
> hard anodized which presents a challenge to most carbide tooling.  So I
> set it up to do the connectors holes in one panel, and the db cutouts
> for the computer cableds db 25's in the other panel. It did a beautiful
> job on the 11 holes in the first panel, but swapping panels to cut the
> db25 patterns was a disaster, the tool was obviously starting to plug
> up.  So I wound up with ragged holes with lots of metal thrown up that I
> had to sharpen up my pocket knife and clean up. Didn't break the tool
> but probably pushed my luck on that point.  Used about 4 oz of kool mist
> for the whole job, so it was wet, but not really soaking the cherry
> spoil board so bad I can't use it again after its dry.
>
> This was an uncoated sc tool, 4mm in diameter, 3 flute with about a 45
> degree up spiral. Speeds ranged from 6000 revs to 14000. Chips thrown
> were almost dust and its obvious I need to put up some lexan splash
> guards.
>
> The fact that it plugged up tells me that kool mist is not the magic
> bullet for this job. Safflower oil, which I used for one job years ago,
> would be better, but the cleanup needs solvent, lots of it. On
> everything it settles on. Including your lungs as I used more air
> pressure and smaller orifices. Blame it on younger and dumber as I was
> then in my mid-60's, 20 years ago?
>
> Any suggestions as to what to concoct for misting fluid next time, that
> would prevent the sticking and plugging up while doing such sheet alu
> the next time? Or was the hard anodized brushed satin finish the real
> killer?  Add some liquid dish soap to enhance its "sticky" maybe?  IDK.
>
> Thanks everybody.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

I'm very surprised by your comments.
I have a Tormach 770 and the only time that I've had a TTS slip is when I
allowed the power drawbar to become mis-adjusted. Are you ensuring the the
TTS shank is clean and free of grease? What is the size of your spindle
motor? I only have a 1HP spindle motor but it will stall before the TTS
slips.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 4:31 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Saturday 20 April 2019 12:20:53 Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > On 04/19/2019 09:55 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > I'm doing that now, for big ER's in that sheldon, but I
> > > had the G0704 spindle in mind, I've developed an abiding
> > > hate for R8's and their tool slippage.
> >
> > Hmmm, I've never had tool slippage with R8 end mill
> > holders.  I HAVE had slippage on a few occasions using
> > collets in the R8.  So, except in unusual circumstances, I
> > ALWAYS put end mills in an R8 holder, instead of a collet.
> > When it did slip, I'm pretty sure I didn't tighten the
> > collet enough, or maybe there was a little chip in there
> > that crushed out, loosening the collet.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> The only way I can be assured that a 3/4" shank of a TTS tool holder will
> not slip, rotating in the R8, is if I put an 8 point 5/16" socket in a
> 20 volt rattle wrench, and let it rattle for most of a second,
> tightening the drawbar bolt about half a turn more that the 10mm end
> wrench supplied can.  No way can that 10mm end wrench can ever loosen
> it, and that socket will be cracked in 50 shots of that. I order those
> in 3 packs from grainger. I keep chassis grease on the drawbolts threads
> and under its shoulder.  But a TTS shank spins in it so easy you'd swear
> it was teflon coated. I made those tap hats that are keyed to the r8
> because a 1/4" tap takes enough torque to slip it rotationally either at
> the TTS/R8 interface or the collet to tap.  The hats are eyed to a notch
> I cut in th R8's mouth.  No slip.
>
>
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

Ahhh. Thanks, a very simple but clever idea!

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 11:16 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2019 at 15:49, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >
> > Interesting but I'm having trouble visualizing. Can you provide a link?
>
> Look for ER MS
>
> https://ch.rego-
> fix.com/en/productfinder?system_name[0]=ER_type[0]=clamping_n
> uts_and_disks_group_name[0]=ER%20MS
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

Interesting but I'm having trouble visualizing. Can you provide a link?

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 10:35 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Fri, 19 Apr 2019 at 15:22, Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> >
> > I think I like the idea of a solid shrink fit collet.  You'd have to 
> > redesign the
> nose of the collet and the nut a little to fit a snap ring or something like 
> that to
> retain the collet in the nut and make it removeable,
>
> There are some super-slim nut designs that use the spanner itself as
> the extractor.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

A number of firms manufacture solid, ER16 dimensioned, "collets" that are heat 
shrunk onto cutters. I'm curious if they can be removed by quickly heating the 
solid collet with an induction heater.

> -Original Message-
> From: TJoseph Powderly [mailto:tjt...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 6:28 AM
> To: emc-users
> Subject: [Emc-users] Fwd: Re: ER ATC tool idea
>
>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
> Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2019 17:15:50 +0700
> From: TJoseph Powderly 
> To:   Andy Pugh 
>
>
>
> Gene,
>
> On 04/19/2019 06:52 AM, Andy Pugh wrote:
> >> On 19 Apr 2019, at 00:47, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >> there is no obvious way that the threads would achieve that level of
> >> concentricity.
> > You can still register on the taper. Solid "collets" and off-the-shelf
> > nuts seem so obvious that I am puzzled that I have never found them.
> > It solves the tool length puzzle at a stroke.
> here's your chance to make use of that induction heater thread from a
> while back.
> you could make solid collets for heat shrink tooling :-)
> heck, they could be solid collet-nuts
> no concentricity problems ( except in manufacture , got a jig grinder ? )
> > ___ Emc-users mailing
> list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> tomp
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-
> us...@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2019 3:23 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Gregg Eshelman
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> Set screw tool holder accuracy is down to how precisely the holders are 
> made.
> A lightly oiled tool should pop when pulled out of the holder. Where this 
> type
> of holder doesn't do as well as a collet is in heavy production work. They 
> need
> to be monitored for getting bellmouthed. A precision rod inserted into a
> holder in a machine spindle should ideally have zero radial movement at the
> end of the holder.
>
> I wonder if any company machines set screw holders with the tool hole very
> slightly offset towards the set screw side so that the screw pushes the tool 
> to
> perfect center?

I suspect that many are bored with the centre hole offset towards the screw. 
Unfortunately it is equally likely that they are bored with the hole offset to 
the side or away from the screw!

Seriously, Weldon shanks work great in larger sizes (say 3/8 and up). With HSS 
shanks that are not fully hardened the setscrew gets a good grip. However, 
with small (1/8 or smaller shank) carbide cutters they are not so good. There 
is also the issue of imbalance due to the setscrew. This becomes important at 
speeds above 1 rpm. Tormach puts a small dimple opposite the setscrew to 
partially compensate.




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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

I have used some reasonable quality holders for Weldon shank tools -- Bison
R8 holders and Tormach TTS -- and none had angled setscrews. In all cases
the setscrew was very closely perpendicular to the axis of the tool.

> -Original Message-
> From: TJoseph Powderly [mailto:tjt...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 10:14 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> Greg thanks
>
> On 04/19/2019 08:36 AM, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> >
> > The Weldon style has a set screw flat that's angled toward the cutting
> > end.
>
> > Tighten the set screw on it and the tool is forced upwards until the
> > deeper end of the flat contacts the side of the set screw.
>
> > That makes the too resistant to shifting axially, preventing loosening
> > or shifting of tool length.
>
> Thanks, I can see it working now and have used them on shank tool
> holders ( Bports etc )
>
> So, the set screw squeezes the angle to bottom out the shank in the bore.
> And, the end of shank and bottom of bore must be clean and solid.
>
> I recall doubting what I had used ,
> trying to jiggle and twist the tool with set screw just biting.
> They didnt 'feel' like the tool was constrained,
> The bore felt good, but the twist and length feature did not.
>
> I didnt chcek but would expect the one cheek of the Weldon to have marks
> from the screw.
>
> But, considering the shop owner,
> I was likely using cheap stuff from MSC ( who was down the street Elk
> Grove Illinois ).
>
> >
> > On Thursday, April 18, 2019, 5:59:29 PM MDT, Gene Heskett
> >  wrote: On Thursday 18 April 2019 19:49:10 Andy
> > Pugh wrote:
> >>> On 18 Apr 2019, at 23:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >>> Cutting duties with 6mm end mills would still need a collets death
> >>> grip I think. YMMV of course.
> >> He did mention Weldon Shank.
> >
> > Ok, since I'm a new bee in terms of a weldon, what makes them magic?
> > Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > ___ Emc-users mailing
> list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> tomp
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

Weldon shank is round with a flat on the side. A setscrew prevents pullout.

I haven't done personal measurements but I've often read that Weldon shank
is worse than ER collets for low TIR when using small diameter tools which
are usual in a high speed spindle.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 7:58 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Thursday 18 April 2019 19:49:10 Andy Pugh wrote:
>
> > > On 18 Apr 2019, at 23:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > >
> > > Cutting duties with 6mm end mills would still need a collets death
> > > grip I think. YMMV of course.
> >
> > He did mention Weldon Shank.
> >
> >
> Ok, since I'm a new bee in terms of a weldon, what makes them magic?
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea

[Ken Strauss]

Perhaps these would work for engraving since runout would be somewhat
non-critical. However, with small milling cutters you want TIR of 0.0002 or
so and there is no obvious way that the threads would achieve that level of
concentricity. I find that it is hard to get low TIR even using precision ER
collets.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 6:30 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ER ATC tool idea
>
> On Thursday 18 April 2019 16:44:40 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>
> > Hi  All
> >
> > The current discussion on making an ATC for ER collet style spindles
> > has given me an idea.
> > As Gene aptly says, R8 and ER collets weren't designed with ATC's in
> > mind.
> >
> > In the application of routing, engraving and other light duty
> > machining, the assembly of ER collet, nut and tool could be reduced to
> > a simple screw-on tool holder.
> > The collet itself would be dispensed with and the nut itself becomes a
> > tool holder, with a Weldon style nose. Mostly it relies on the nut
> > mating with the face of the spindle.
> >
> > I have attached two pictures(not to scale) showing how it might look,
> > using a simple D bit, and where the second toolholder has a core that
> > engages with the cone of the spindle for heavier duty tooling.
> > A dozen of these could be machined by the user to take various tools.
> > Obviously this design is to used on the Hackaday or similar ATC
> >
> > https://ibb.co/6vpFs97
> > https://ibb.co/dpwVLkB
> >
> > Thoughts??
>
> Looks quite usable for engraving duties. But I'd be a bit spooky about
> the setscrews long term grip, and would favor a dimple in the side of
> the tool to foolproof it a bit.
>
> Cutting duties with 6mm end mills would still need a collets death grip I
> think. YMMV of course.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Something to think about re the hack-a-day tool changer

[Ken Strauss]

Google is your friend!
ft-lb =Nm * 0.73756
So 75Nm = 55.3 ft lbs

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2019 11:45 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Something to think about re the hack-a-day tool
> changer
>
> On Thursday 18 April 2019 07:47:51 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 18 Apr 2019 at 10:22, Roland Jollivet
>  wrote:
> > > To recap; small steppers 'drive' the carousel around to tighten the
> > > motor.
> >
> > No, the motor drives round the carousel to tighten the collet.
> >
> > It is really rather clever. Assuming that it can't work based purely
> > on guess-work seems silly.
>
> No, not silly, experience Andy, experience reaching into the bank account
> to replace tooling that broke by walking out of the holder when I
> thought it was tight enough.
>
> > I suggested a very simple test using the same torque wrench as Gene
> > presumably uses now to tighten his collets to the correct torque to
> > test the hypothesis.
>
> All 4 of my 5 torque wrenches are in foot/pounds. The smallest is in inch
> pounds.  How much is 75Nm, in inch pounds.
> >
> >
> > But, assuming a 5mm pitch screw and 5:1 motor reduction:
> > (0.5 Nm stepper * (2 * pi) / 5mm ) * 5:1 = 3kN. On the end of a 75mm
> > arm that is 235Nm.
> > Correct torque for an ER20 is 75Nm.
>
> That is no where near tight enough to keep it from walking out of the
> collet and breaking the tool because its digging 3/8" on a cut that
> should be 20 thou if it hadn't walked out.  Here I use an end wrench
> about 15" long, ground thin enough to fit the flats on the TTS holder,
> and a 10 or 12" crescent wrench and a pull on the wrenches that is
> likely in excess of 100 lb-ft. I don't have a newtom-meters to
> pound-foot conversion handy but that certainly is tighter than 75Nm.
>
> Ditto if using an R8 directly, the R8 gets tightened with a 20 volt
> electric impact wrench driving an 8 point 10mm socket a lot tighter than
> I can draw it by hand with the supplied toy 10mm endwrench.  If not, the
> TTS in the R8 may slip and walk out. The life of that socket before it
> splits might be 50 times, its hell on good quality sockets.
> >
> > (Though I am not convinced that an ER17 can really lift a 300kg mass,
> > so suspect I messed something up. )
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Something to think about re the hack-a-day tool changer

[Ken Strauss]

The cheap load cells often use a HX711 for the amplifier and A/D.
See
https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Interface-HX711-Balance-Module-With-
Load-Ce/ if you're using an Arduino. If you want to roll your own interface
code see https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/813/hx711_english-1022875.pdf


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 10:01 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Something to think about re the hack-a-day tool
> changer
>
> On Wednesday 17 April 2019 07:12:53 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 06:57, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
> > > Some more along the lines of finding out how much force I can figure
> > > on as being available to tighten or loosen the collet nut. I can
> > > get, for under a tenner, 4 ea 50Kg load cells and a processor board
> > > that converts the very low level diffs of a wheatstone bridge
> >
> > Why not set your torque wrench to the correct torque for your nuts and
> > then see how far down the handle you have to be to trip the wrench?
> >
> > That tells you what radius of action you need to get the right torque.
> >
> > There is no question that your machine can produce the torque, given
> > the classical "sufficiently long lever"
>
> And that is the final question as to whether or not the idea is actually
> practical. It assuredly is not if the xy motors are so weak it needs a
> carousel more then 18" in radius to the circle of sockets just to
> tighten a tool well enough to dig off .010" of an alu chip without
> slippage of tool in the collet.  Even that isn't going to be practical
> but it does serve to outline exactly why the 3" radii carousels we are
> seeing in the videos will turn out to be an obvious disproof of concept.
> The videos of it going thru the motions on hackaday would certainly have
> to suffer from the loose tools syndrome if actually put to work on a
> usable thickness of alu stock, say .03125" thick. Putting bigger motors
> on it would be one option, but even 470 oz nema 23's, might not be
> enough, and most certainly could/would bend the frame or bearing rods. I
> have the motors from the broken HF I can move, and probably will as that
> would at least double the power, but just haven't found the round tuit
> yet. Among other things they have dampers on them. But I'll have to
> change the A motor again, putting a 435oz on it. I already changed the
> 90 for a 230, so a 435 can't fail to be even better at holding work.
> That would leave the pair of 235's for XY, and would leave the longer Y
> to be moved to Z duties.
>
> The 1600oz nema 34 supplied as Z motor in the kit for a G0704, which was
> a too slow disaster on the G0704, often stalling at 29 ipm, but was
> strong enough to stretch the bolts anchoring the nut carrier to the z
> sled, causing those to need replacement quite early, but now moves at 90
> ipm with a 940oz motor that has not further damaged those replacement
> bolts, would be a prime example of overkill. However I reused that motor
> as Z drive on the Sheldon, where it has no weight to lift, works well at
> 75 ipm on the Sheldon with the same driver I took out of the G0704. I
> put in the $180 AC powered drive to spin that 940oz on the GO704. Dead
> smooth and 20 db quieter. The DM860H drive is a noisy drive, so noisy I
> had to install miniature quarter round on the keyboard shelf edges to
> keep stuff on it, including the keyboard and mouse. The 860 has very
> very poor step vs amps in coils calibration, so there is no nice quiet
> all steps in the microstep mapping regardless of the current setting.
> The thing you notice most is that a /8 setting actually does 7 steps
> because one of them is way too small.
>
> But thats not solving this measurement problem. Since this $7 kit, needs
> an external clock, it seems like that could be done by siggen, for a 500
> baud baud rate, and a software uart could do the rest. But the packet
> length is unk until I have such a kit in my hot little hands. The
> fleabay adv's don't say.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Ken Strauss]

I completely agree; I'm delighted to get *ANY* response to my dumb questions!

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 08, 2019 9:23 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
>
>
> >> What makes that even easier is to enable HTML email and then not only
> change colour but also font.
> > The "best" answer, of course, is to embed Javascript in an HTML email
> > to present the data according to the preferences registered by each
> > recipient on an SQLite database hosted on an Amazon AWS in the cloud.
> >
> > :-)
>
> I read through 4 or 5 email lists on almost  a daily basis.  And I read
> through messages which are top posted, bottom posted, and sometimes even
> MIDDLE POSTED (and replicated !  :-) ),   yet I still get by  and
> all without going crazy, drinking excessively, etc.
>
> So this is my take:Thanks to everyone who has been gracious enough
> to respond to "anything" I write !!!:-)
>
> You can top post, bottom post, middle post, split a middle post across
> multiple parts, encode your reply in javascript I really don't care.
>
> If you are willing to take the time to reply, I'm willing to read what
> you write.  :-)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Posting order

[Ken Strauss]

IMHO bottom posting shows utter disdain for the reader who is forced to scroll 
through many lines that he has already read. Of course bottom posting is great 
for the reader who is too lazy to closely follow a thread and wants their 
memory refreshed with each new posting.

> -Original Message-
> From: Erik Christiansen [mailto:dva...@internode.on.net]
> Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 11:55 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Posting order
>
> On 31.03.19 11:17, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > > A: No.
> > > Q: Should I include quotations after my reply?
> > >
> > > A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> > > Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
> > > A: Top-posting.
> > > Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
> >
>
> Couldn't agree more. This ancient wisdom encourages consideration for
> the reader - and so may admittedly seem strange in this century. In-line
> replies, like this one, add a reply to a context. A top post is an
> answer without a question or context - good for skipping as impenetrable
> ass-backwards nonsense, IME.
>
> Or ... is it the custom in some quarters to read from the bottom up?
> It's the only thing which makes top posting intelligible, one has to
> admit.
>
> ...
>
> > If you are reading a once a week email of all the postings on a
> > subject then I can see wanting them all in order from top to bottom.
> > But otherwise it costs far more in concentration and time.
>
> You're too generous there, I think. Catching up on a week's¹ mail right
> now, there's nothing more useless than fullquoting, before or after.
> A considerate poster chops out the stuff he's not answering, leaving a
> "..." to indicate there's someone else's input left out of this part of
> the discussion. The shorter the quoted text, the better. It is after all,
> repetition of list traffic, and unnecessary verbiage to read through is
> an unkind theft of other people's time.
>
> Erik
>
> ¹ It's not that I read a digest, it's just that I've been out on the farm
> for a week. With threading, there's overall context from preceding posts,
> so it is a kindness to readers to quote only the sentences to be replied
> to, and to reply after the relevant question/proposition/opinion. Thus
> the reply has intelligibility through context.
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler

[Ken Strauss]

About 100km east of Toronto on the shore of Lake Ontario.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2019 1:53 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler
>
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Unfortunately my local Princess Auto has nothing in 8mm hose nor
fittings
> > so I
> > need to swap the connector that came with the unit.
>
> Where are you located?
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler

[Ken Strauss]

Unfortunately my local Princess Auto has nothing in 8mm hose nor fittings so I 
need to swap the connector that came with the unit.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2019 12:58 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler
>
> Just took another look at the EBAY photo.  Mine didn't come with the 8mm
> tube fitting on the end of the ball valve.  A local place here called 
> Princess Auto
> does carry those fittings and the tubes.  Eventually I'll swap over to that. 
> I
> guess I could complain to the seller that what I got didn't match the photo.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: April-02-19 6:22 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler
> >
> > My comment/question was based on the eBay description. I bought a
> > similar
> > unit and it *DID* come with an 8mm fitting as advertised. I need to get
> > around to swapping it with a proper 1/4-inch connection.
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 9:15 PM
> > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler
> > >
> > > > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > > > I have one of those also. Where did you find 8mm air line?
> > >
> > > Mine came with a standard 1/4" fitting so I put fast attach coupler on 
> > > it
> > for
> > > testing.  Then went  outside the shop with a container of water and used
> > the
> > > tire pressure hose that has a regulator on it.  I played around with
> > pressure
> > > and flow.  Below about 50 PSI it wouldn't pull the water up the full
> > length of
> > > the tubing.  Above 50PSI it didn't have any trouble.
> > >
> > > Since the liquid supply tube runs all the way up and mixes at the nozzle
> > I'm not
> > > sure where the venturi is and I've not pulled it further apart than just
> > seeing
> > > what the tip was like.
> > >
> > > As we discussed before, the biggest issue with one of these will be how
> > fine a
> > > particulate is created and how much stays suspended in the air.  That's
> > > probably the biggest reason for having a valve on the fluid side of
> > things.
> > > Cooling mostly with air and hardly any fluid.
> > >
> > > And this is going to turn into one of these eventually projects.  Just
> > milled a
> > > couple of brackets to size using WD-40.  Haven't even figured out where
> > I'll
> > > mount this.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler

[Ken Strauss]

My comment/question was based on the eBay description. I bought a similar
unit and it *DID* come with an 8mm fitting as advertised. I need to get
around to swapping it with a proper 1/4-inch connection.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 9:15 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler
>
> > From: Ken Strauss [mailto:ken.stra...@gmail.com]
> > I have one of those also. Where did you find 8mm air line?
>
> Mine came with a standard 1/4" fitting so I put fast attach coupler on it
for
> testing.  Then went  outside the shop with a container of water and used
the
> tire pressure hose that has a regulator on it.  I played around with
pressure
> and flow.  Below about 50 PSI it wouldn't pull the water up the full
length of
> the tubing.  Above 50PSI it didn't have any trouble.
>
> Since the liquid supply tube runs all the way up and mixes at the nozzle
I'm not
> sure where the venturi is and I've not pulled it further apart than just
seeing
> what the tip was like.
>
> As we discussed before, the biggest issue with one of these will be how
fine a
> particulate is created and how much stays suspended in the air.  That's
> probably the biggest reason for having a valve on the fluid side of
things.
> Cooling mostly with air and hardly any fluid.
>
> And this is going to turn into one of these eventually projects.  Just
milled a
> couple of brackets to size using WD-40.  Haven't even figured out where
I'll
> mount this.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler

[Ken Strauss]

I have one of those also. Where did you find 8mm air line?

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2019 6:37 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: [Emc-users] Mist Cooler
>
> This just arrived.  Nice piece of kit for the money.
> https://www.ebay.ca/itm/132111789751
>
> It will require a valve on the fluid side.
>
> Now to try and figure out what kind of coolant to use.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 10:34 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> On Friday 22 March 2019 15:17:43 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
> > >
> > > On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
> > > > Hi Gene,
> > > >
> > > > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > > > haven't made any chips yet.
> > > >
> > > > Considering the price of these coolant units
> > > > <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mist-Coolant-Lubrication-Spray-System-
> > > >for- CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
> > >
> > > neither ships to the states.
> >
> > Try
> > https://www.banggood.com/OD-2mm-x-1_6mm-ID-304-Stainless-Steel-
> Capilla
> >ry-Tub e-Length-500mm-Stainless-Pipe-p-1035176.html
> >
> Way too big, Ken.  Thanks.

It is the same size as that recommended by Les (2mm OD, 1.6mm ID).




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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
>
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > haven't made any chips yet.
> >
> > Considering the price of these coolant units
> >  >CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
>
> neither ships to the states.

Or
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/10PCS-304-Stainless-Steel-Capillary-Silver-Tube-Bar-
OD-2mm-x-1-6mm-Length-250mm/182683602266





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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 1:52 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> On Friday 22 March 2019 13:07:16 Les Newell wrote:
>
> > Hi Gene,
> >
> > > And you lose a lot more air thru the poorly molded flex joints,
> > > probably 5x what comes out the nozzle.
> > > And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so
> > > haven't made any chips yet.
> >
> > Considering the price of these coolant units
> >  >CNC-8mm-Pipe-Lathe-Mill-Drill-Machine/262805869835>
>
> neither ships to the states.
>

Try
https://www.banggood.com/OD-2mm-x-1_6mm-ID-304-Stainless-Steel-Capillary-Tub
e-Length-500mm-Stainless-Pipe-p-1035176.html





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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2019 12:14 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> And I've been cogitating on how to restrict the fluid flow, so haven't
> made any chips yet.  Lack of the ability to bore very fine threads below
> nominally 10mm discourages me from attempting a needle valve design in
> some 1/2" thick brass bar I have is driving me toward a pinch the hose
> idea since the hose is so small anyway, I'm thinking of drilling and
> tapping into the motor mount, a couple 3mm.7 tapped holes 8mm or so
> apart, and making a flat piece with matching clearance holes, clamping
> that teeny hose between them and drawing it down with hex head cap
> screws to pinch it down to a red hair. Pressurizing the coke bottle
> takes care of priming the system and I can drill into the mount body to
> get that air easily enough. It will bleed back out of the bottle, and I
> can extend the inner nozzle to deliver what liquid does get thru the
> pinched section to roughly the middle of the annular air running at
> maybe 10 psi.
>
> That way any particulates that get thru the sintered bronze filter on the
> end of the feed line in the coke bottle will hopefully not be so coarse
> as to block off the pinched area, AND theres nothing to corrode over
> time. Might have a cold flow problem with the hose, requiring a pinch
> adjustment occasionally, but thats to be fiddled with when its
> encountered.
>
> Anybody see any showstoppers??
>

Is there some reason not to use a commercial pneumatic needle valve? Perhaps 
not the best price nor quality but something like:
https://www.amazon.com/Clippard-PQ-FV04-Plastic-Control-Tubing/dp/B01A63TGA0/
or
https://www.amazon.com/Pneumatic-Connect-Fitting-Control-Degree/dp/B07L9ZGRTS/
They are available for various tubing sizes and NPT sizes.




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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: TJoseph Powderly [mailto:tjt...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 7:32 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> a quick google reminded me why this was familair
> try googling 'spray nozzle'
> i got
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spray_nozzle
> and it showed me that the flat surface exit made NO atomization
> thats not what you want, sorry
> ( i was trying to achieve the jumping water effect seen in many fountains
> and that flat exit was great for the hot dog of water effect )
> if you want the fluid stream broken into tiny droplets ,
> the web page lists a lot of geometries to try
> tomp
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 10:50 AM Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday 20 March 2019 21:29:19 TJoseph Powderly wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Mr Nozzle shape
> >
> > Did not get any useable hits on this side of the pond. URL?
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett

Thanks for the link. Sometimes Googling for the obvious terms gives the best
results!




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Re: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: TJoseph Powderly [mailto:tjt...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:29 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] mister nozzle shape
>
> Hello Gene
> iirc the end of the nozzle should be 'dead square'
> meaning to taper, no burr, no fillet
> cannot find a reference url now
> but remember some test that surprised me
> a small burr was the culprit
> tomp
>
> haha just re-read it
> "Hello Mr Nozzle shape"
> reminisent of Tom Waits in Legend of Buster Scruggs
>

URL?




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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle motor coolant advice needed

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 1:44 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle motor coolant advice needed
>
> When I had a coolant tank, for a different purpose, I put automatic "anti
> freeze in the water.   It is make just for this purpose and is
> non-corrosive with materials used in car engines.
>
> Also, if the water recirculates it will eventually warm up.  I put a 12
> volt fan on the tank lid and made it into an evaporative cooler.Then
> you top off the tank with new water now and then.  If the water is taking
> even 25 watts of heat from the system it will heat up quite a lot unless
> you rig some kind of cooling.
>

How about using a radiator like
https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Radiator-Water-Cooling-Cooler/dp/B079DHJ91F/
which is intended to cool CPUs? It comes with mountings for three 120mm
muffin fans.




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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational mode.

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 5:08 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Where's them fires. [Was: Re Conversational
> mode.
> The point I was belaboring is that any one of us on this list could fix
> all that including me. But we'ed never in the next 10k years, be allowed
> to because the regulation is being done by people who have never
> understood the real power of the genie they have been given the power to
> regulate.  As Einstein famously said, insanity is doing the same thing
> over and over again, expecting a different result. Have any of us taken
> a geiger counter to the grocery store and checked the bagged or canned
> tuna lately? If I could find one I could afford, I would have long ago,
> but even junk thats for parts is half a kilobuck.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
I have no idea of the quality of their goodies but you may want to consider:
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1468 and
https://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/products.asp?dept=1473






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Re: [Emc-users] DIY CNC builder dilemma, open request for comments

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 12:07 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] DIY CNC builder dilemma, open request for
comments
>
> My mill is equivalent to a Grizzly G3606.  From the now defunct House of
> Tools.  They handle the broken parts and assemble and make sure everything
> is there before I ever saw it.  No real complaints but it's not a HAAS.
Of
> course the price was nowhere near that either.
>
> I know for sure that I'm going to have to either rebuild (redesign) the X
> axis nut or just install ball screws (preferred).  The PC, the CNC control
> software are such a small part of the whole thing.
>
> The BeagleBone design is published and can be used in other layouts.
> Nothing stops someone from producing a more S100 if you will (but smaller
> cards) system using it as a backbone processor.  Although it's video
> processing is pretty pitiful.  The Pi is not public.
>
> But again, 1000 hours  (about 6 months work).  $100 to $150 per hour.  Say
> with all the design work including metalwork etc. that you can create that
> magic Linux CNC based box for $150,000.   The customer base will probably
> only want to pay $500 at the most for it since you can duplicate what it
> does with used PCs and some hardware.  The motors, couplers, power
supplies
> etc. remain constant regardless of the install.   So if you want to make
> back your investment and earn a living then $150,000 R / $500 per unit
is
> 300 units.
>
> And even with $500 per unit the end user still has to modify his machine
> which is where all the work and money is.   If the need was there it would
> already be filled.IMHO.
>
> John

Selling 300 units at $500 each would only recover the $150K R if the
supplied hardware were free with no advertising/support required for the
sales. I suspect that needing to sell 3000 units is closer to reality.




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Re: [Emc-users] New problem, how best to solve?

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2019 7:20 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New problem, how best to solve?
>
> On Monday 18 February 2019 16:56:38 jrmitchellj wrote:
>
> > Hey Gene, If you were so inclined to make your own touch probe, there
> > is an article in the winter 2011 edition of Digital Machinist that
> > describes a construction project.
> > If interested, send your email address to me, and I will send more
> > information.
> >
> > --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> > jrmitche...@gmail.com
> >
> Its the from line above, if it survives the list
> else try ghesk...@shentel.net.  I'd be interested in anything thats half
> the size of a renishaw.
>
> Thanks J. Ray.

I haven't been following this discussion closely. What are your size
restrictions? I'd have to go to the shop to measure exactly but a Renishaw
MP3 is about 3.25 inch in diameter and 2.5 inch in Z-height.




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Re: [Emc-users] G43 question

[Ken Strauss]

Running PathPilot in lathe mode applies offsets for X, Y and Z.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 9:08 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G43 question
>
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 13:18, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >
> > Yes, Tool 1 has a new entry for X after running the posted gcode (unset
> > offsets are not present). Note that this was tested using Tormach's 
> > PathPilot
>
> You would _definitely_ expect X offsets to work on a lathe. Especially
> as the Tormach lathe uses a gang toolholder.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] G43 question

[Ken Strauss]

Yes, Tool 1 has a new entry for X after running the posted gcode (unset 
offsets are not present). Note that this was tested using Tormach's PathPilot 
which is a thinly skinned version of LinuxCNC since I don't have a "real" 
version to try it on.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2019 7:41 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] G43 question
>
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 02:40, Ken Strauss  wrote:
> >
> > G43 appears to only apply the Z-offset from the tool table.
>
> That seems wrong, G43 should definitely also apply the XYABCUVW offsets
> too.
>
> Do you see the new numbers for X appear in the actual tool table?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Would this blower be usefull as a low pressure mister for this 6040

[Ken Strauss]

Have you considered using a 2l PET plastic soft drink bottle?

> -Original Message-
> From: Phillip Carter [mailto:phillcarte...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2019 8:31 PM
> To: linuxcnc-users-list
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Would this blower be usefull as a low pressure
mister
> for this 6040
>
> I use a water filter canister similar to this:
> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncategorised-metalworking-
> machines/102934-built-fog-less-coolant-mister.html
>  machines/102934-built-fog-less-coolant-mister.html>
>
> Cheers, Phill
>
> > On 13 Feb 2019, at 12:16 pm, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> >
> > On Tuesday 12 February 2019 17:08:58 andy pugh wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 21:48, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >>> So it appears
> >>>
> >>> I'll have to saw off a bit of brass, find my teeny brass tubing
> >>> supply and hope I have enough to make another. Unfortunately, the
> >>> hobby shop where I bought it closed up 5 years back from old age, so
> >>> now I am at ebay's time sinking mercy at getting some more.
> >>
> >> It might make more sense, if buying  from ebay, to get a ready-made
> >> mister nozzle:
> >>
> >> https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=mist+cnc
> >
> > So I've bought one with dual nozzles, for about $14, but none of the
> > search terms I've used has come up with a suitable coolant tank to use
> > with it. What has stuck up a hand to wave at me is $250 and up.  It
> > seems to me that a filter canister suitable for up to 40 psi, holding a
> > quart of coolant ought to be $75 or less.
> >
> > Thanks everybody
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> > soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
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[Emc-users] G43 question

[Ken Strauss]

G43 appears to only apply the Z-offset from the tool table. For example,
running the program below displays the Z values as expected but the X values
are identical. Would having LinuxCNC also apply the X offset cause problems?

g10 L1 P1 Z0 X0 R.25
t1 m6
g43 h1
(debug,#<_X> x with X offset=0)
(debug,#<_Z> z with Z offset=0)
(update tool table Z and X offset)
g10 L1 P1 Z2 X2
g43 h1
(debug,#<_X> x with X offset=2)
(debug,#<_Z> z with Z offset=2)




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Re: [Emc-users] color me pissed

[Ken Strauss]

They are not the cheapest but Amazon has 10-packs of 16GB USB sticks for $30. 
They even come in various colours and they promise Tuesday delivery.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 11:25 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] color me pissed
>
> Something I don't do and since I'm grounded from any great amount of
> driving for another 2-3 weeks, it will be a while before I can collect
> some usb keys. But it sounds like an economical way to get just in case
> instant recoveries. I'm about 70% recovered now, just the tally led
> restoration and a session of copy/paste should complete it sometime in
> the next days.
>
> Thanks Dave
> [...]
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm

[Ken Strauss]

I suppose that it depends on your work. I am frequently using most of my X/Y
travel so I'd hate to lose even a few square inches.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 5:53 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm
>
> On Thursday 10 January 2019 17:31:03 Ken Strauss wrote:
>
> > Yes, a cute design. However, unless I missed it, he doesn't address
> > determining the varying stickout of the cutter. After every tool
> > change you would have to move the spindle to over a height setter and
> > then to the cutting position. A lot of time plus table real estate
> > used for the tool changer plus the height setter.
>
> For the sizes of work I might want to do , unless I start carving bed
> head board panels, the real estate for the changer can be discounted by
> swiveling the carousel plumb off the bed when its all needed.  As for
> the tool setter, a 1/4' square piece of double sided pcb superglued to
> the bed or even the spoil board doesn't take a lot of room, other than
> getting a short tool to it. On the end of the spoil board makes more
> sense.
>
> Lots of ways to skin that cat, the most important being to verify that
> the cat is well and truly dead. :-[
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 5:24 PM
> > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm
> > >
> > > On Thursday 10 January 2019 14:18:46 Martin Dobbins wrote:
> > > > https://hackaday.com/2016/06/20/hackaday-prize-entry-diy-automatic
> > > >-too l-changer/
> > > >
> > > > ??
> > > >
> > > > Martin
> > >
> > > Now that cute and makes use of the leverage nicely. But I do not see
> > > it actually change from the nut in, all I see is from one tool of x
> > > size shank to another tool with the same size shank. IOW, the collet
> > > is not being changed. But I don't see a good reason why the spindle
> > > motor couldn't be used to unscrew the nut and leave it behind along
> > > with the collet and tool, then taking the spindle to a position
> > > above another nut, collet and tool with a different sized shank. Its
> > > idea could likely be expanded to 6 or even 8 tools.
> > >
> > > A clock spring could be used to put the lazy susan back to its index
> > > position, and have a lookup table that would then tell the gantry
> > > where the next tool lives.  Drop the spindle into that gatersocket,
> > > spin the spindle until its semi snug, and drive the suzan to finish
> > > the tightening. Humm, small motor to preposition the empty socket in
> > > the wound up position would be even better, the drive the gantry to
> > > loosen it and turn the motor backwards to complete the unload.
> > > Reverse to load.
> > >
> > > I like it. But how does he position the motor so the wrench just
> > > slides in? Or is it under power, say at 5 hz to do that.
> > >
> > > Most of these motors haven't an encoder to facilitate the alignment.
> > >
> > > Most of what I might do could be handled with 3 tools at the ready
> > > in a 4 station wheel and one in the spindle for starters. If more
> > > tools are needed it looks super easy to exchange all 3 in the wheel.
> > > This puts the onus to remember what you are doing on the operator,
> > > but this is what we have (msg,text to print) for.
> > >
> > > > 
> > > > From: Gene Heskett 
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:43 PM
> > > > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm
> > > >
> > > > On Monday 07 January 2019 05:22:53 andy pugh wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 05:07, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
> > > > >
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > I've seen some that have each tool holder coded and read the
> > > > > > holders in the chain or carousel as it moves.
> > > > >
> > > > > In fact the machine in the first post is just such a machine.
> > > > > The tool holders all have a mechanical bar-code made of a stack
> > > > > of rings of different diameters on the outside of the tool
> > > > > holder body.
> > > >

Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm

[Ken Strauss]

Yes, a cute design. However, unless I missed it, he doesn't address 
determining the varying stickout of the cutter. After every tool change you 
would have to move the spindle to over a height setter and then to the cutting 
position. A lot of time plus table real estate used for the tool changer plus 
the height setter.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 5:24 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm
>
> On Thursday 10 January 2019 14:18:46 Martin Dobbins wrote:
>
> > https://hackaday.com/2016/06/20/hackaday-prize-entry-diy-automatic-too
> >l-changer/
> >
> > ??
> >
> > Martin
> >
> Now that cute and makes use of the leverage nicely. But I do not see it
> actually change from the nut in, all I see is from one tool of x size
> shank to another tool with the same size shank. IOW, the collet is not
> being changed. But I don't see a good reason why the spindle motor
> couldn't be used to unscrew the nut and leave it behind along with the
> collet and tool, then taking the spindle to a position above another
> nut, collet and tool with a different sized shank. Its idea could likely
> be expanded to 6 or even 8 tools.
>
> A clock spring could be used to put the lazy susan back to its index
> position, and have a lookup table that would then tell the gantry where
> the next tool lives.  Drop the spindle into that gatersocket, spin the
> spindle until its semi snug, and drive the suzan to finish the
> tightening. Humm, small motor to preposition the empty socket in the
> wound up position would be even better, the drive the gantry to loosen
> it and turn the motor backwards to complete the unload.  Reverse to
> load.
>
> I like it. But how does he position the motor so the wrench just slides
> in? Or is it under power, say at 5 hz to do that.
>
> Most of these motors haven't an encoder to facilitate the alignment.
>
> Most of what I might do could be handled with 3 tools at the ready in a 4
> station wheel and one in the spindle for starters. If more tools are
> needed it looks super easy to exchange all 3 in the wheel. This puts the
> onus to remember what you are doing on the operator, but this is what we
> have (msg,text to print) for.
>
> > 
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:43 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] tool changer with swiveling arm
> >
> > On Monday 07 January 2019 05:22:53 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 05:07, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > > I've seen some that have each tool holder coded and read the
> > > > holders in the chain or carousel as it moves.
> > >
> > > In fact the machine in the first post is just such a machine. The
> > > tool holders all have a mechanical bar-code made of a stack of rings
> > > of different diameters on the outside of the tool holder body.
> >
> > I have spent some time daydreaming about a tool changer that changes
> > the whole ER-11 for use with this gantry mill. Something that changes
> > the nut, collet and tool all in one swell foop. \
> >
> > Obviously one would have to motorize with enough force to adequately
> > tighten and loosen the nut, but spinning the nut on and off with a
> > short burst of the spindle motor.
> >
> > Where I hit the rude awakening is in positioning the two wrenches
> > independently, in order to exert enough force to get an adequate grip
> > on the tool. I can visualize tickling the motor till the top wrench
> > snaps onto the spindle double d flats but then possibky pushing the
> > top wrench into engagement key/spline.  The nut wrench has to be
> > articulated so it snaps into place later. That would be helped if it
> > was a 12 point socket. But then we may need 2 or 4x the torque to
> > loosen it as it took to tighten it.  And because the tool may slip in
> > and out of the collet while the nut is loose, some means of driving
> > the tool back into the collet to a fixed projection, then some
> > additional time to measure the stickout sure seems like a good idea.
> >
> > That may yet make me learn a cad program. Fugly thought, that.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
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>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone made use of a tool table entry in re a tool changer?

[Ken Strauss]

While discussing the tool table I'll ask a question (it is too cold in the
shop to try it right now). Are all offsets (Z, X, Y) acted upon in a mill?
I'd like to use X/Y in the tool table to position an auxiliary spindle when
a special tool numbers that are in the auxiliary spindle are selected.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2018 7:35 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone made use of a tool table entry in re a
> tool changer?
>
> On Thursday 06 December 2018 19:18:25 andy pugh wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 at 22:37, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > > > How about an entry in the W column of the tool table?
> > >
> > > Maybe, whats it normally do?
> >
> > It would be the offset in the W axis. I doubt that you have a W axis,
> > so you won't see any effect, but the tool changer should be able to
> > read the value.
>
> I'll certainly look into it, thanks Andy.
>
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: 'touch' screen

[Ken Strauss]

I Agreed that other than to see if you can make it work it is not worth
doing. If price is critical used POS terminal monitors are often available
cheaply.

I believe that he wanted a 19-inch screen so maybe:
https://www.amazon.com/Touch-Screen-POS-TouchScreen-Monitor/dp/B00G3OBLLO/

I have had a Monoprice 106959 17-inch monitor on my PathPilot (LinuxCNC
derivative) system for years and it works great but the monitor appears to
have been discontinued.

> -Original Message-
> From: Roland Jollivet [mailto:roland.jolli...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2018 12:52 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] OT: 'touch' screen
>
> It's all probably not worth the schlep.
>
> Buying this would be a lot easier;
> https://www.amazon.com/Asustek-15-6in-Wled-1366x768-
> Vt168n/dp/B01B6JD7DA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8=1543686577=8-
> 1-fkmr0=ASUS+VT168N
>
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 at 19:44, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > On Saturday 01 December 2018 10:17:29 Roland Jollivet wrote:
> >
> > > I've been thinking about how to implement a touch screen of sorts on a
> > > 19" monitor. The TFT displays are too expensive for their size.
> > >
> > > Then I came across this;
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aOYc_GKTHQ
> > >
> > > Very interesting, and with more scanners and LED's it could be very
> > > usable! Next is to explore how easy it is to drive them..
> > >
> > With the ccd bars from a fairly modern scanner, you would have both in a
> > unit but working with white light, not ir, and since both are in the
> > same bar, one could theoreticly multiplex them for even better accuracy.
> > But even the bars out of my brother mfc-j6920dw, would only give you 11"
> > of active area, and I'm sure the white light would be a distraction in
> > use, so one would have to make 2 bars of ir emitters, which could be
> > made longer increasing the size of the working field at the expense of
> > poor accuracy in the corners. 2 ccd bars end to end would solve that,
> > giving 22" or more of scanable area vertically. How much $ would you
> > have in getting those parts from brother?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and controller recommendation

[Ken Strauss]

> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Easterday [mailto:tom-...@bgp.nu]
> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:38 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] Surface grinder vertical axis servo motor and 
> controller
> recommendation
>
> A friend is fixing up a 70s vintage surface grinder that has a ball screw on 
> the
> vertical axis and a non functioning drive.  He wants to replace what is 
> there
> with a servo motor and driver and have a simple control that lets him select
> several ranges, say 100, .010, .001, .0001 & .5 increments to move the
> spindle.
>
> He asked what motor, driver, and control to use.  My experience with servos
> is pretty limited, I've built one gantry machine with them.  We used Kelling
> servos, CUI encoders, Granite Devices drivers and Mesa cards with Linuxcnc.
> A full Linuxcnc controller seems like overkill though to control a single 
> axis in
> fixed increments but I am not sure what other options there are.  I am 
> curious
> what folks here would recommend for this application?
>
> -Tom
>

Why the insistence on a servo? A stepper would be cheaper and, unless I'm 
missing something, suitable. It is probably heresy on the LinuxCNC list but 
why not use an Arduino + Gecko or maybe a ClearPath? There is ample Arduino 
sample code showing how to control a stepper and display settings on a LCD.




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Re: [Emc-users] Feed/Rapid override physical knob selection

[Ken Strauss]

If your knobs are near the mill even without coolant you will probably need 
some sort seal to prevent the ingress of swarf.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 4:40 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Feed/Rapid override physical knob selection
>
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 21:14, Tomaz T.  wrote:
>
> > >There are two main choices, MPG (
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/183476117151)
> > >or potentiometer-style encoder ( https://www.ebay.co.uk/152204137441)
> >
> > Your links doesn't work, what do I need to look for to get right reaults?
>
> I cut too much. These are just examples, not recommendations.
>
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183476117151
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152204137441
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: gripping stuff

[Ken Strauss]

Looking at their website it appears that they are in Brampton which is
fairly close to me. I wonder if they have a factory outlet store!

> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2018 1:39 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: gripping stuff
>
> On Saturday 20 October 2018 10:15:20 Roland Jollivet wrote:
>
> > (whilst the list is quiet)
> >
> > I found this very interesting. Unless you know it already...
>
> No I didn't, thank you.
> >
> > The concept is gripping stuff in a vise. While this targeted at
> > 5-axis, and you do need sacrificial material remaining, it gets around
> > how to minimally clamp some stock for machining..
> >
> > That is, to have a dedicated station that 'pre-marks' the workpiece.
> >
> > It reminds me of the 'micro-grip' idea behind the HP plotters that
> > made them so popular /reliable.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BfvxqibZ9w
> >
> Priceing for the whole kit is quite likely well beyond my pay grade, but
> its sure a neat way to do it. Even the rotary table looks like a
> kilobuck+. But that doesn't mean I'm not drooling over it. ;-)
>
> --
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Yet another topic about gantry homing

[Ken Strauss]

I haven't been following this thread so I apologize if this was previously 
noted.

One possible solution to the ball screw whip issue is to spin the ballnut 
rather than the ballscrew. In this scheme the ballscrew does not rotate and if 
you tension the screw you should be able to use a much smaller diameter screw.

> -Original Message-
> From: Leonardo Marsaglia [mailto:ldmarsag...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2018 2:42 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Yet another topic about gantry homing
>
> Hello Chris,
>
> I would love to have ballscrews but I thought I would need to large of a
> diameter to avoid them to whip. Remember that I have a 3.8 meters in lenght
> for the longest joint. I've reading about using anti whip guides that move
> with the gantry and also aply tension in the screw with a nut to improve
> the work speed and reduce whip but I don't know wich option is better. Also
> there's the solution of rotating the nut.
>
> Anyway, for such long ways and screws, I need to see if I don't have too
> much trouble importing them to my country, because of the size of the
> package. I'll just have to make a call to DHL here in Argentina!
>
> Thank you!
>
> El jue., 4 oct. 2018 a las 14:58, Chris Albertson (<
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
> > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 5:49 AM Leonardo Marsaglia
> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > About the last question. Is there any disadvantage other than may be a
> > > little more mechanical complexity with the one motor and shaft
> approach?
> > > Because I've seen lots of routers driven with two motors that I almost
> > > think it's mandatory for some reason.
> > >
> >
> > What are the guide rails made of?  precision stainless steel or chromed?
> > They will need to be very high quality and very expensing if you use a
> > bronze bushing.I think most people are going with HDPE.  The friction
> > is lower and you never need to use lube.  that last part mean the rails 
> > are
> > never coat "dust magnets"You can buy HDPE bearing for not much
> money.
> > Typically there bearing are not very thick and are pressed into aluminum
> > housing
> >
> > Also they make rails that lay on the table like rail road tracks the seem
> > like a good way to go and then use round rails in the second axis. or use
> > these for both.They are inexpensive and you can mount them to
> aluminum
> > extrusions of  any size.   these would be absolutely rigid and you'd not
> > have to make anything. Like save money too as they don't cost a lot.
> >
> > Here is a smaller set, they make them bigger needed
> > .ebay.com/itm/2-X-SBR12-1000mm-For-CNC-12MM-Supported-Linear-Rail
> > <
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-SBR12-1000mm-For-CNC-12MM-Supported-
> Linear-Rail-Shaft-4-Pcs-SBR12UU-
> Blocks/202160641942?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%
> 3D1%26asc%3D52885%26meid%3Db5963b764d384f598e468b383f921b1c%26
> pid%3D15%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D401470856046%26itm%3D
> 202160641942&_trksid=p2047675.c15.m1851
> > >
> >
> > I know someone who built a large router and, all I can say is the quality
> > of the rails REALY matters.  That is where all the budget needs to go.
> >  The supported ones are nice because you can place shim shock under them
> > and use a laser to get perfect alignment.
> >
> > About rack and pinion.   You will need way-expensive rack and pinion set 
> > to
> > reduce backlash.  Butter to use a timing belt (with curves tooth profile)
> > as these have zero backlash and cost less.   The other option is ball
> > screws.   Ball screws will out perform racks and cost a lot less and
> > again bell screws are zero backlash
> >
> > User direct drive or timing belt reduction as gear reductions on the 
> > motors
> > have backlash.
> >
> > It is assign how much the cost of zero backlash ball drives have fallen.
> > They are now the lowest cost option for precision linear drive.These
> > are made  mostly for the Chinese domestic market but some are sold on
> eBay
> >The Chinese domestic market is HUGE compared to Europe or USA and we
> can
> > take advantage of their economy of scale.
> > For usr use a 12mm diameter screw would work well.   Use them at least of
> > the shorter axis (certainly the  axis) here is an example.  I have a set 
> > of
> > these.  The bearing are hold in compression so there is zero backlash and
> > they measure "perfect" at least according to a dial indictor.
> >
> > With these ball screws nd a pair of the rial mounted guedes you can mill
> > mild steel and certainly aluminum and have resolution at better them 0.001
> > inch.  Use normal stepper motor as the systems nearly frictionless.   Cost
> > is very low. Maybe $200 per axis plus the motor for a one meter square
> > router.   It is almost disappointing to use this as there is"nothing to
> > build"Just some mounting brackets and you are done.
> >
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support

[Ken Strauss]

Perhaps I misunderstand but multi-spindle drill presses were once very common. 
They allowed one to drill several holes in the same time as drilling only one. 
The same could certainly apply to milling.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2018 11:48 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
>
> Isn't it more in keeping with G-Code to do the equivalent of setting a mode.
> For example we set Relative or Absolute and from then on all motion is done
> that way.
>
> So why not an Mxxx.yyy to set currently active spindle.  At that point 
> G-Code
> remains the same with no incompatibility with any of the CNC CAM programs.
> Changing Active Spindles would not set active spindle speed to 0.  It's left 
> in
> the mode after the last command.
>
> I'm not sure why there would ever be a need to have two spindles turning at
> the same time.  An example of where that might be useful would be
> interesting.
>
> Or modify the tool selection process.
> Select Tool # 990, 991 or 992 to lock in a spindle.  Then Tool 1 for that 
> spindle.
> Again, existing CAM software just sees a G-Code sequence for Tool Selection.
>
> I prefer the Mxxx.yyy technique.
>
> John Dammeyer
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: September-16-18 6:57 AM
> > To: EMC developers; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Multi-spindle support
> >
> > After some consultation with the release manager I have decided to
> > push multi-spindle support in to the current development branch.
> > A side-effect of this is that motion.spindle. pins all become
> > spindle.0.x pins. (and so on for extra spindles.) When I push it
> > this will be added as a refinement to the update_ini automatic script
> > so configs should update automatically.
> >
> > To add more spindles just add "num_spindles=" to the end of the
> > "loadrt motmod" line in HAL, and add a [TRAJ]SPINDLES to the INI. It
> > is imperative that these match or trouble will ensue.
> >
> > The spindle to use is controlled by the $ character (as all the other
> > letters were in use). This doesn't match any commercial control, but
> > should make remapping to match any specific control relatively easy.
> >
> > The current behaviour of LinuxCNC is that spindles have a speed even
> > when off. To see this try M3 S100 followed by M5, then M3 with no
> > S-word. You will see that the spindle re-starts with the previous
> > speed.
> >
> > This becomes rather more obvious with multi spindle.
> > S10 $0
> > S100 $1
> > S1000 $2
> > Will set the speeds of each spindle, but not start them.
> > Then
> > M3
> > will start them all simultaneously. M4 will reverse them all. M5 will
> > stop them all.
> >
> > M4 $2 will only reverse spindle 2
> > M5 $1 will only stop spindle 1.
> >
> > G76 $1 . will perform a threading cycle synched to the encoder
> > feedback on the spindle.1.revs pin.
> >
> > A preview version (merged with current master) can be tried in the
> > "andypugh/multispindle-master" branch.
> >
> > Questions...
> > What should be the effect of a $ on a line by itself?
> >
> > Should we allow multiple $? eg M5 $0 $2 to stop two spindles? At the
> > moment there is an internal concept of "current spindle". Perhaps
> > there should instead be a spindle mask and $ should be interpreted to
> > set this mask prior to parsing the S and F words in the block.
> >
> > Has anyone used multi-spindle G-code on a different control?
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > ? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> >
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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