Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 6 November 2012 00:28, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: Wow, sensitive subject. Are _you_ serious? Getting cold up there in the Baltic? It seems you are both getting a bit too excited by this subject. You can skate across and fight it out in the middle soon :-) I have also already stated that latency dropped with 50 % on the existing controller when it was running headless If 50% improvement is all that you need, then this might be worthwhile. My scepticism is based on a more subtle consideration which applies to stepper systems, however I think yours is a step-servo system so this might not apply. When you are pushing software step generation to its limits you find that the gaps between the available step rates get wider. Taking the example of a 25uS base thread, you can either step every 1, 2 or 3 threads, giving you top-end pulse frequencies of 40kHz, 20kHz or 13kHz. At some point the steps become bigger than the physical system can follow and the motors will stall somewhere short of the theoretical top speed. In systems where the step generation clock is a few MHz (Pico or Mesa FPGAs, SmoothStepper, other stuff I can't recall right now) this granularity limit is well above the practical speed limits of a stepper system. A step-servo system will have its own internal position-tracking control loops and may be immune to this issue. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/11/6 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com If 50% improvement is all that you need, then this might be worthwhile. My scepticism is based on a more subtle consideration which applies to stepper systems, however I think yours is a step-servo system so this might not apply. A 50 % drop in latency is a 100 % improvement. ;) When you are pushing software step generation to its limits you find that the gaps between the available step rates get wider. Taking the example of a 25uS base thread, you can either step every 1, 2 or 3 threads, giving you top-end pulse frequencies of 40kHz, 20kHz or 13kHz. At some point the steps become bigger than the physical system can follow and the motors will stall somewhere short of the theoretical top speed. In systems where the step generation clock is a few MHz (Pico or Mesa FPGAs, SmoothStepper, other stuff I can't recall right now) this granularity limit is well above the practical speed limits of a stepper system. A step-servo system will have its own internal position-tracking control loops and may be immune to this issue. Good info. I'm not sure if a servo step/dir is immune, I haven't thought about the technical implementation but I'll ask the vendor where the limits are. If I don't remember it all wrong I think I'm close to the max rpm of the servo's with the figures I'm getting now. I'm in a need of a 5-axis and that will be a Mesa-driven machine, no doubt about that. /S -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. I would really like to know if this works Eric -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 11/5/2012 11:43 AM, Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. I would really like to know if this works Eric It's easy in principle, Eric. Anything that can run an Xserver can be the user terminal. I've done it a number of times with computers ranging from simple evaluation boards like the RPi to full-up engineering workstations. The beautry of X is that an Xserver is an Xserver is an (Don't ask me about the warts on X:-)) In practice, there's a lot of niggly details that have to be attended to if it is to be bullet-proof and be seen as the user interface to a machine tool and not as a computer. 1) the RPi should be able to boot up without manual intervention into a kiosk mode with, say, just an Xwindow open and ready for business. A very stripped-down Linux will do. 2) it should be able to establish communication automagically to the machine controller. In my case, I'd put a cheap ethernet switch in the cabinet so the RPi and the controller can talk to each other and to other parts of my network. There are other ways to establish the intercommunication but this is easiest for me. 3) both the RPi and the controller should be able to boot into a functional state, each without depending on the other 4) the RPi terminal should allow some sort of debug mode for those days when nothing is going well. Regards, Kent -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 4 November 2012 15:48, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. This sounds like a really difficult way to solve the wrong problem. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
The big problem I've had with trying to put RPi's inside control cabinets is that they *really* don't like to be powered off at arbitrary times without a proper shutdown -h now. Less than a half-dozen power cycles and the SD card was corrupted. I have yet to find a satisfactory solution to this problem. Shutdown takes ~20 seconds with the stock OS image. -- Ralph On 4 November 2012 15:48, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The big problem I've had with trying to put RPi's inside control cabinets is that they *really* don't like to be powered off at arbitrary times without a proper shutdown -h now. Less than a half-dozen power cycles and the SD card was corrupted. There are ways to mount the root disk read-only, with a small ramdisk for temp files. There's even a way to layer a ramdisk over a readonly primary disk, where the ramdisk only holds the changing bits. You gain robustness---the boot always starts from the same pristine image, and nothing is ever written to the primary SD storage; no shutdown is required. You loose modifiability: no changes are ever recorded on the persistent SD storage. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
The problem I seemed to be observing (and seemed to be reported by others) was that the SD card gets corrupted even with RO file systems. Power cycling glitches cause inadvertent write cycles to the SD card. -- Ralph From: Przemek Klosowski [przemek.klosow...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:09 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back? On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The big problem I've had with trying to put RPi's inside control cabinets is that they *really* don't like to be powered off at arbitrary times without a proper shutdown -h now. Less than a half-dozen power cycles and the SD card was corrupted. There are ways to mount the root disk read-only, with a small ramdisk for temp files. There's even a way to layer a ramdisk over a readonly primary disk, where the ramdisk only holds the changing bits. You gain robustness---the boot always starts from the same pristine image, and nothing is ever written to the primary SD storage; no shutdown is required. You loose modifiability: no changes are ever recorded on the persistent SD storage. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The problem I seemed to be observing (and seemed to be reported by others) was that the SD card gets corrupted even with RO file systems. Power cycling glitches cause inadvertent write cycles to the SD card. Even with the SD card hardware write lock switch turned on? I find it hard to believe, but ... not impossible... -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/11/5 Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The problem I seemed to be observing (and seemed to be reported by others) was that the SD card gets corrupted even with RO file systems. Power cycling glitches cause inadvertent write cycles to the SD card. Even with the SD card hardware write lock switch turned on? I find it hard to believe, but ... not impossible... I have an old laptop as TV media center running Portheus in Fresh Mode which means that everything is copied to RAM during bootup. I can assure you that my kids - and I and my wife - have shut it off brutally at least 1000 times. Still boots up like normal and that's exactly what Fresh Mode is for. If you don't want to wait 20 seconds for a shut off, then try Portheus. On the other hand, how do you shut off the LinuxCNC PC? As an alternative you could leave the RPi left on, not a power consumer so to speak. @Andy, why is it difficult and why is it the wrong problem? I clearly measure a performance boost running the controller PC headless. Would it be easier and cheaper to order a Mesa board? No. Could the To-me-useless-as-CNC-PC ITX boards act like X servers in a dual PC setup? Yes indeed. And what I paid for the complete ITX computer is not more than a 5I25 will cost me with shipping, import VAT and customs fees. And when something breaks i can stroll away to the electronics store and get the spare part I need. /S -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 5 November 2012 19:10, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: @Andy, why is it difficult and why is it the wrong problem? I clearly measure a performance boost running the controller PC headless. Would it be easier and cheaper to order a Mesa board? No. It won't be cheaper _and_ easier, but it could well be easier and more expensive. I think that the improvement would be much more significant than going for a hybrid ITX / RPi combination. (and the ITX PCs are probably fine for a Pico/Mesa style setup). A 5i25 is €95 + shipping from CZ (no further EU customs or VAT to pay) http://www.retrofit-plus.at/en/MESA/Mesa-5I25-Superport-FPGA-based-PCI-Anything-I-O-card.html -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Monday 05 November 2012 14:14:57 Przemek Klosowski did opine: On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:52 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The big problem I've had with trying to put RPi's inside control cabinets is that they *really* don't like to be powered off at arbitrary times without a proper shutdown -h now. Less than a half-dozen power cycles and the SD card was corrupted. There are ways to mount the root disk read-only, with a small ramdisk for temp files. There's even a way to layer a ramdisk over a readonly primary disk, where the ramdisk only holds the changing bits. You gain robustness---the boot always starts from the same pristine image, and nothing is ever written to the primary SD storage; no shutdown is required. You loose modifiability: no changes are ever recorded on the persistent SD storage. I don't think you have to loose the modifiability. dd-wrt has been booting from compact flash with multiple partitions for several years. The main boot is read-only of course, but the optional config info, is written to a read/write partition that generally might get written to several times at initial configuration time by mounting it r/w to write to it, then is remounted read-only, usually for life. Added iptables rules, network setup info is all protected. I have never had a power cycle of any kind including me pulling the power cord from the wall plug contaminate it even when using it on an old x86 box with a CF adapter on the end of an IDE drive cable. I see no reason why the RPi can't do much the same thing. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
The write lock switch does not connect to anything on the RPi board. There is no write lock function provided. -- Ralph From: Przemek Klosowski [przemek.klosow...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 10:42 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back? On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The problem I seemed to be observing (and seemed to be reported by others) was that the SD card gets corrupted even with RO file systems. Power cycling glitches cause inadvertent write cycles to the SD card. Even with the SD card hardware write lock switch turned on? I find it hard to believe, but ... not impossible... -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/11/5 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 5 November 2012 19:10, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: @Andy, why is it difficult and why is it the wrong problem? I clearly measure a performance boost running the controller PC headless. Would it be easier and cheaper to order a Mesa board? No. It won't be cheaper _and_ easier, but it could well be easier and more expensive. Are You serious?!? How is a setup of 2 PCs - one for LinuxCNC with software step generation and other of graphical frontend - more easy than simply adding an FPGA card either to LPT port or in PCI slot? And how is it easier to configure such a double-PC system than take a sample config in LinuxCNC and adjust some lines to fit particular machine? And where do You get whole PC (MB + RAM + HDD + PSU) for less than 100 EUR (based on 5i25 price, provided by Andy)? IMHO any attempts to combine 2 PCs, when adding an FPGA card is not even considered, certainly is way more difficult way to solve wrong problem. It not only adds a whole layer of complexity to overall system, it also does not introduce any additional functionality. Using FPGA card adds new features (way more I/O bits, pwmgens, stepgens and encoder modules can handle much higher pulse frequencies etc.) and IMHO does not make the system significantly more complex. Generally using FPGA card certainly is easier _and_ cheaper. Try it for Yourself :) -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Ralph Stirling ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu wrote: The write lock switch does not connect to anything on the RPi board. There is no write lock function provided. One learns something every day: indeed the write protection is done by the reader, it's not a circuitry on the card (it's just a plastic slider, detected by a switch in the reader, like the floppy drive write protect tab). I didn't know that---thanks for the clue stick. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/11/5 Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com 2012/11/5 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 5 November 2012 19:10, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: @Andy, why is it difficult and why is it the wrong problem? I clearly measure a performance boost running the controller PC headless. Would it be easier and cheaper to order a Mesa board? No. It won't be cheaper _and_ easier, but it could well be easier and more expensive. Are You serious?!? How is a setup of 2 PCs - one for LinuxCNC with software step generation and other of graphical frontend - more easy than simply adding an FPGA card either to LPT port or in PCI slot? And how is it easier to configure such a double-PC system than take a sample config in LinuxCNC and adjust some lines to fit particular machine? And where do You get whole PC (MB + RAM + HDD + PSU) for less than 100 EUR (based on 5i25 price, provided by Andy)? IMHO any attempts to combine 2 PCs, when adding an FPGA card is not even considered, certainly is way more difficult way to solve wrong problem. It not only adds a whole layer of complexity to overall system, it also does not introduce any additional functionality. Using FPGA card adds new features (way more I/O bits, pwmgens, stepgens and encoder modules can handle much higher pulse frequencies etc.) and IMHO does not make the system significantly more complex. Generally using FPGA card certainly is easier _and_ cheaper. Try it for Yourself :) Wow, sensitive subject. Are _you_ serious? I didn't even have to buy another PC to run a dual PC setup, it's all in the workshop already. All it takes is ONE freakin' command line and it's running. I bought the to-me-pretty-useless ITX computer for €150. I get fully functional laptops for free that works better than the ITX board, a Raspberry costs less than €50 with a card and casing and shipping. I don't NEED extra I/O's for an already running machine. I have also already stated that latency dropped with 50 % on the existing controller when it was running headless. And on top of that I have given the Mesa credits already. Did you even read the rest of the discussion before you jumped the train? I think not. /S -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/29 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca Hi all; On 2012-10-29, at 11:14 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) I just got my 2nd Intel D525MW board last Friday; it took about a month to come in to my local store. What was the name of the Rock board, or the Asus board that is similar? BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit, the PCI-e slot is not the same as the Mesa 6i25. John Alexander Stewart John, what's your latency? I installed the boards and actually it's a bit disappointing. I installed one to my wife's office to replace an old Dell, and watching a video clip on Vimeo doesn't simply work, it lags and flickers pretty heavily. Even worse; Ubuntu 12.10 doesn't recognize the graphics and it goes black screen with 64bit and ends up with half the screen size in 32bit! I was hacking around with xrandr to get it a decent display and never got it running well (The board is configured as a laptop by Ubuntu, no wonder it's mostly laptop harware. But why on earth is a second non existing display configured?..). Ubuntu 10 installs fine and finds the correct resolution right away but the heavy lag is still there. My LTS support towards Ubuntu is on the edge now... I installed LinuxCNC on my board and ran latency tests and it was quite easy to ramp it up to 14 250 ns. That's worse than my existing configuration at the reconfigured PC that's in use now that this thread from the beginning was about. I also made the remote X tests as discussed earlier in this thread and then the PC maxed out at 9 920 ns. 4 GB high quality RAM 60 GB SSD super fast disc Hyper threading disabled/enabled tested isolcpu=1 6-7 ms? No chance. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
I installed LinuxCNC on my board and ran latency tests and it was quite easy to ramp it up to 14 250 ns. That's worse than my existing configuration at the reconfigured PC that's in use now that this thread from the beginning was about. I also made the remote X tests as discussed earlier in this thread and then the PC maxed out at 9 920 ns. Correction: 18 250 ns. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 11/4/2012 9:59 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: ... I installed the boards and actually it's a bit disappointing. What boards are these, Sven? From previous traffic, I inferred you were getting Intel Atom boards, but now I'm not sure. I installed LinuxCNC on my board and ran latency tests and it was quite easy to ramp it up to 14 250 ns. That's worse than my existing configuration at the reconfigured PC that's in use now that this thread from the beginning was about. I also made the remote X tests as discussed earlier in this thread and then the PC maxed out at 9 920 ns. 14 250ns is 14,25us, not 14,25ms. Not the best we've seen but not bad either. 4 GB high quality RAM 60 GB SSD super fast disc Hyper threading disabled/enabled tested isolcpu=1 6-7 ms? No chance. 6ms = 6 000us = 6 000 000ns. Regards, Kent PS - I'm trying to be consistent in numeric notation, e.g., comma instead of full stop to indicate decimal point, and space instead of comma to separate thousands. Please overlook any mistakes. I was born in the left side of the Atlantic Ocean. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Sven; My D525MW boards are not beside me ATM, but your correction seems to be about right, IIRC. Certainly not blindingly fast, but not too bad either, and little noise/heat. I hope that their lifetime is long in my applications. My numbers, like yours, were higher than seen on the latency numbers on the LinuxCNC web site; I wonder if, as you have done, running headless is really the way to go for best latency. I'm thinking seriously about the Mesa 5i25; I'll need one for the spindle encoder for my CNC lathe project. BTW - I'd not bet on Windows to be a secure bet for long term CNC either; don't really know what either LinuxCNC or the Mach camp are going to do a few years down the road. JohnS. On 2012-11-04, at 10:00 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I installed LinuxCNC on my board and ran latency tests and it was quite easy to ramp it up to 14 250 ns. That's worse than my existing configuration at the reconfigured PC that's in use now that this thread from the beginning was about. I also made the remote X tests as discussed earlier in this thread and then the PC maxed out at 9 920 ns. Correction: 18 250 ns. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/11/4 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca Sven; My D525MW boards are not beside me ATM, but your correction seems to be about right, IIRC. Certainly not blindingly fast, but not too bad either, and little noise/heat. I hope that their lifetime is long in my applications. My numbers, like yours, were higher than seen on the latency numbers on the LinuxCNC web site; I wonder if, as you have done, running headless is really the way to go for best latency. I'm thinking seriously about the Mesa 5i25; I'll need one for the spindle encoder for my CNC lathe project. BTW - I'd not bet on Windows to be a secure bet for long term CNC either; don't really know what either LinuxCNC or the Mach camp are going to do a few years down the road. JohnS. Thanks John. I actually hit near 30 000 ns when I closed a tab i Firefox. If you really want to load FF, go to Smartclient.com or Vaadin.com and run the demo sites. Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. I'm not in a hurry to replace the controller all of a sudden... @Kent, Max base jitter(ns). Shouldn't be ms of course, my bad quick spelling slipped and I mean micro and not milli... The rumour said that the D525MW should be able to make it in the 3-7 micro region, seems not possible to me though. /S -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 11/4/2012 10:48 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: 2012/11/4 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca Sven; My D525MW boards are not beside me ATM, but your correction seems to be about right, IIRC. And I thought it was high, but I don't have a D525MW here. I don't mean to sound snarky, but have you isolated one cpu? Certainly not blindingly fast, but not too bad either, and little noise/heat. I hope that their lifetime is long in my applications. My numbers, like yours, were higher than seen on the latency numbers on the LinuxCNC web site; I wonder if, as you have done, running headless is really the way to go for best latency. I'm thinking seriously about the Mesa 5i25; I'll need one for the spindle encoder for my CNC lathe project. BTW - I'd not bet on Windows to be a secure bet for long term CNC either; don't really know what either LinuxCNC or the Mach camp are going to do a few years down the road. JohnS. Thanks John. I actually hit near 30 000 ns when I closed a tab i Firefox. If you really want to load FF, go to Smartclient.com or Vaadin.com and run the demo sites. Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. I'm not in a hurry to replace the controller all of a sudden... My thought exactly. I used to use an old Via board as an X server, but these ARM boards beat it for their modest size and power consumption, not to mention I can buy 4 or 5 RPis for what I paid for the Via. @Kent, Max base jitter(ns). Shouldn't be ms of course, my bad quick spelling slipped and I mean micro and not milli... I thought that might be the case, but I read things very literally, to the consternation of my wife and kids. My grandkids, however, find it amusing. The rumour said that the D525MW should be able to make it in the 3-7 micro region, seems not possible to me though. Like I said, I don't have a D525MW. I did get such decent numbers for my ASUS AT5NM10-I (Atom D510 equipped) and even my old Intel D945GCLF2 (Atom 330) did pretty well (based on latency-test reports, of course, not real world measures as John notes). It's seriously annoying to have to test every new board for suitability. Good luck. Regards, Kent -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Kent; On 2012-11-04, at 12:27 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote: My D525MW boards are not beside me ATM, but your correction seems to be about right, IIRC. And I thought it was high, but I don't have a D525MW here. I don't mean to sound snarky, but have you isolated one cpu? Not snarky; my CNC mill one certainly does have the cpu isolation (thanks for your help back then) my 2nd one just has the LinuxCNC install installed from CD, so I'm just running the latency tests from the pull down menu. I was downloading installing the full Android app development environment at that point in time, so it was something to do while waiting for a server to serve me. ;-) I'll have to go out and run both settings to see if there's a difference, or, more correctly, see what the difference is. Actually, I'm not worried about the figures, as the CNC mill runs just fine (™) as it now stands; the new lathe still needs lots of work before I even contemplate moving this new one downstairs. I just noted someone pointing out the latency numbers and thought that, as I was installing the full Android developer tools on it, that I'd just run the latency test and see what I got. John Alexander Stewart. -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Sun, 2012-11-04 at 12:27 -0500, Kent A. Reed wrote: On 11/4/2012 10:48 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: 2012/11/4 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca Sven; My D525MW boards are not beside me ATM, but your correction seems to be about right, IIRC. And I thought it was high, but I don't have a D525MW here. I don't mean to sound snarky, but have you isolated one cpu? Certainly not blindingly fast, but not too bad either, and little noise/heat. I hope that their lifetime is long in my applications. My numbers, like yours, were higher than seen on the latency numbers on the LinuxCNC web site; I wonder if, as you have done, running headless is really the way to go for best latency. I'm thinking seriously about the Mesa 5i25; I'll need one for the spindle encoder for my CNC lathe project. BTW - I'd not bet on Windows to be a secure bet for long term CNC either; don't really know what either LinuxCNC or the Mach camp are going to do a few years down the road. JohnS. Thanks John. I actually hit near 30 000 ns when I closed a tab i Firefox. If you really want to load FF, go to Smartclient.com or Vaadin.com and run the demo sites. Seems I've found a good reason to actually have a Raspberry Pi inside the cabinet, a perfect X host to unload the controller. I'm not in a hurry to replace the controller all of a sudden... My thought exactly. I used to use an old Via board as an X server, but these ARM boards beat it for their modest size and power consumption, not to mention I can buy 4 or 5 RPis for what I paid for the Via. @Kent, Max base jitter(ns). Shouldn't be ms of course, my bad quick spelling slipped and I mean micro and not milli... I thought that might be the case, but I read things very literally, to the consternation of my wife and kids. My grandkids, however, find it amusing. Well, certainly! That is a result of the way you think and your training. Orders of magnitude do count and not only in paychecks. :-) Think of the differences if our accepted physical constants were (only) one order of magnitude larger or smaller. Yes, wives tend to be that way. Like, doesn't your head hurt, to which a friend of mine replies to his wife after doing a 'back of the envelope calculation', not any more the thoughts let the pressure out. :-) The rumour said that the D525MW should be able to make it in the 3-7 micro region, seems not possible to me though. Like I said, I don't have a D525MW. I did get such decent numbers for my ASUS AT5NM10-I (Atom D510 equipped) and even my old Intel D945GCLF2 (Atom 330) did pretty well (based on latency-test reports, of course, not real world measures as John notes). It's seriously annoying to have to test every new board for suitability. Indeed, but that is what pressures us to find a better solution. A static world is unnatural. Thermodynamics wins every time. Dave Good luck. Regards, Kent -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/11/4 Ray Mitchell jrmitche...@gmail.com Did you verify that the D525MW has the latest Intel BIOS installed? Ray No difference before or after BIOS upgrade. Now running rev.0126 i.e. latest from Intel. 26 000 ns easily within 30 seconds caused by a terminal, glxgears and Firefox. /S -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Indeed, but that is what pressures us to find a better solution. A static world is unnatural. Thermodynamics wins every time. Dave Define static. Mount Everest hasn't changed much since EMC2 was born. A better solution seems to be two machines; one for LinuxCNC and one for X. /S -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 11/04/2012 09:00 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I installed LinuxCNC on my board and ran latency tests and it was quite easy to ramp it up to 14 250 ns. That's worse than my existing configuration at the reconfigured PC that's in use now that this thread from the beginning was about. I also made the remote X tests as discussed earlier in this thread and then the PC maxed out at 9 920 ns. Correction: 18 250 ns. If this is a dual-core CPU, better results are almost always seen by disabling hyperthreading in the BIOS setup screen before the system boots. These can often be improved even more by reserving one CPU for real time with the isolcpu=1 option in the boot command in GRUB. Jon -- LogMeIn Central: Instant, anywhere, Remote PC access and management. Stay in control, update software, and manage PCs from one command center Diagnose problems and improve visibility into emerging IT issues Automate, monitor and manage. Do more in less time with Central http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein12331_d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Unfortunately the graphics card didn't like me playing around with the drivers and it got really hot. I replaced it with a dirt cheap card just to get the PC back up again. Did a remote X session test five minutes ago. ssh -X connection from my CAM workstation, played Youtube videos, downloaded LinuxCNC, copied files locally in Nautilus. Latency maxed out at 10 200 ns. Performance increase 55 %. I'm starting to believe that Torvalds' Nvidia ranting is justified... /S Sigh, I don't remember that I had any problems when I installed the machine once upon a time, nor when I upgraded it. LinuxCNC on 10.04 can't drive the new graphics card and the two internal NICs aren't working even if I do the tricks listed on the Internet. Went back to 8.04. Graphics came up without boot-options, but the NICs are still dead. Time to go to the computer store and get a cheap NIC not built by Nvidia... :( I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Hi all; On 2012-10-29, at 11:14 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) I just got my 2nd Intel D525MW board last Friday; it took about a month to come in to my local store. What was the name of the Rock board, or the Asus board that is similar? BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit, the PCI-e slot is not the same as the Mesa 6i25. John Alexander Stewart -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/29 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca Hi all; On 2012-10-29, at 11:14 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) I just got my 2nd Intel D525MW board last Friday; it took about a month to come in to my local store. What was the name of the Rock board, or the Asus board that is similar? BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit, the PCI-e slot is not the same as the Mesa 6i25. John Alexander Stewart My computer store have them in stock, but they where not in the store. At latest I have them on friday. /S -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/29 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca: BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit And it does fit very well :)) I put this combination in one of my machines, works like a charm. And the slim profile of the card does not disturb wiring the cables. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Monday 29 October 2012 13:33:20 John Stewart did opine: Hi all; On 2012-10-29, at 11:14 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) I just got my 2nd Intel D525MW board last Friday; it took about a month to come in to my local store. What was the name of the Rock board, or the Asus board that is similar? BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit, the PCI-e slot is not the same as the Mesa 6i25. That I found John, thanks, but that other slot looks more like a PCMCIA than pci-e to me, plus its a right angle socket, meaning anything bigger than a lappy side plugin card will run out of room for length. John Alexander Stewart -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-app s/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Lensmen eat Jedi for breakfast. -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Monday 29 October 2012 13:38:32 Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/10/29 John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca: BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit And it does fit very well :)) I put this combination in one of my machines, works like a charm. And the slim profile of the card does not disturb wiring the cables. Good to hear Sven, thanks for posting. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! A committee is a life form with six or more legs and no brain. -- Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/29 Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Monday 29 October 2012 13:33:20 John Stewart did opine: Hi all; On 2012-10-29, at 11:14 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) I just got my 2nd Intel D525MW board last Friday; it took about a month to come in to my local store. What was the name of the Rock board, or the Asus board that is similar? BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit, the PCI-e slot is not the same as the Mesa 6i25. That I found John, thanks, but that other slot looks more like a PCMCIA than pci-e to me, plus its a right angle socket, meaning anything bigger than a lappy side plugin card will run out of room for length. From D525 manual I understand that it is mini-pci slot for wireless adapters and some similarly small devices. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 13:37 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: On Monday 29 October 2012 13:33:20 John Stewart did opine: Hi all; On 2012-10-29, at 11:14 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I think I'll order that Mini ITX board at the same time. For the record, I ordered two ITX boards. Better safe than sorry. ;) I just got my 2nd Intel D525MW board last Friday; it took about a month to come in to my local store. What was the name of the Rock board, or the Asus board that is similar? BTW Gene - the Intel D525MW has a PCI slot on it, so the Mesa 5i25 should fit, the PCI-e slot is not the same as the Mesa 6i25. That I found John, thanks, but that other slot looks more like a PCMCIA than pci-e to me, plus its a right angle socket, meaning anything bigger than a lappy side plugin card will run out of room for length. See Page 3: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/desktops/desktop-board-d525mw-innovation-brief.html Looks like PCI Express Mini: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_Mini_Card -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- The Windows 8 Center - In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/25 Kent A. Reed kentallanr...@gmail.com ...[snip]... With this in mind (and you did mentioned graphics first), have you tried my favorite trick and run your LinuxCNC host in headless mode, using another computer to provide X services? A quick test would confirm if you are being undone by your host's graphics subsystem. Regards, Kent Unfortunately the graphics card didn't like me playing around with the drivers and it got really hot. I replaced it with a dirt cheap card just to get the PC back up again. Did a remote X session test five minutes ago. ssh -X connection from my CAM workstation, played Youtube videos, downloaded LinuxCNC, copied files locally in Nautilus. Latency maxed out at 10 200 ns. Performance increase 55 %. I'm starting to believe that Torvalds' Nvidia ranting is justified... /S -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
I did some testing yesterday. I upgraded the graphics driver (Nvidia) and the latency test went from 18 000 to 150 000... I removed the driver and reconfigured X and came down to a sweet 7 000, but there's something messing things up as the latency all of a sudden popped up to 15 800. Running the machine headless is on my top prio to see what happens. Mesa card is high on the wish list too. I have a new machine project and Mesa is the way to go in that case (5 axis 3,3 m long). Andy, Gene and Pete, same guys replied to my questions ages ago. Good to see you're still here. :-) /S -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Friday 26 October 2012 04:29:34 Sven Wesley did opine: I did some testing yesterday. I upgraded the graphics driver (Nvidia) and the latency test went from 18 000 to 150 000... I removed the driver and reconfigured X and came down to a sweet 7 000, but there's something messing things up as the latency all of a sudden popped up to 15 800. Running the machine headless is on my top prio to see what happens. Mesa card is high on the wish list too. I have a new machine project and Mesa is the way to go in that case (5 axis 3,3 m long). Andy, Gene and Pete, same guys replied to my questions ages ago. Good to see you're still here. :-) /S Thanks for the flowers Sven. As for still here, I had a birthday a few days back, and can now truthfully say that I've been 39 and holding, for 39 years, so the shotgun that runs me off will probably resemble Father Time's Scythe. That said, the praise we've been giving the Intel D525MW motherboard is well deserved. For about a $260 line on your card statement, a complete box in shoebox fashion, that has latency figures in the 3 to 7 microsecond range can be on the end of your parport cable. Both my toy mill and my toy lathe could run faster now but would need more amps and volts from the psu to do it, the cpu isn't the limit. Considering the spindle power either machine has is 10% of what it needs, its working very well indeed, but is harder on carbide chips than they should be because the cut is so thin. IOW, don't fight with a box that is unsuitable for the job. Bin it, and get one of these that runs things faster, on 20% or less the power consumption of the older box that is eating your lunch with its assorted gotchas. Once configured, these D525MW's Just Work(TM). Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! BOFH excuse #44: bank holiday - system operating credits not recharged -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Thanks for the flowers Sven. As for still here, I had a birthday a few days back, and can now truthfully say that I've been 39 and holding, for 39 years, so the shotgun that runs me off will probably resemble Father Time's Scythe. That said, the praise we've been giving the Intel D525MW motherboard is well deserved. For about a $260 line on your card statement, a complete box in shoebox fashion, that has latency figures in the 3 to 7 microsecond range can be on the end of your parport cable. Both my toy mill and my toy lathe could run faster now but would need more amps and volts from the psu to do it, the cpu isn't the limit. Considering the spindle power either machine has is 10% of what it needs, its working very well indeed, but is harder on carbide chips than they should be because the cut is so thin. IOW, don't fight with a box that is unsuitable for the job. Bin it, and get one of these that runs things faster, on 20% or less the power consumption of the older box that is eating your lunch with its assorted gotchas. Once configured, these D525MW's Just Work(TM). Cheers, Gene Even better, a D525MW would fit _inside_ my servo controller cabinet... /S -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 26 October 2012 11:21, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: Even better, a D525MW would fit _inside_ my servo controller cabinet... At that point consider a 12V input PicoPSU (assuming there is 12V in the cabinet) or possibly even a 12V input motherboard (though I don't think we have found one which is known to be properly good in all respects yet. The DN2800 is OK if you don't mind only having 1024x768 resolution and want to use VGA rather than HDMI. Otherwise graphics support in Linux is problematic. Bear in mind that this PCI-E too, so needs a 6i25. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Friday 26 October 2012 09:14:36 Sven Wesley did opine: Thanks for the flowers Sven. As for still here, I had a birthday a few days back, and can now truthfully say that I've been 39 and holding, for 39 years, so the shotgun that runs me off will probably resemble Father Time's Scythe. That said, the praise we've been giving the Intel D525MW motherboard is well deserved. For about a $260 line on your card statement, a complete box in shoebox fashion, that has latency figures in the 3 to 7 microsecond range can be on the end of your parport cable. Both my toy mill and my toy lathe could run faster now but would need more amps and volts from the psu to do it, the cpu isn't the limit. Considering the spindle power either machine has is 10% of what it needs, its working very well indeed, but is harder on carbide chips than they should be because the cut is so thin. IOW, don't fight with a box that is unsuitable for the job. Bin it, and get one of these that runs things faster, on 20% or less the power consumption of the older box that is eating your lunch with its assorted gotchas. Once configured, these D525MW's Just Work(TM). Cheers, Gene Even better, a D525MW would fit _inside_ my servo controller cabinet... /S There you go. :) Its psu is different, which is why I bought the whole box with a 250Gb rotating drive, and an optical drive to facilitate the install from our cd based on 10-04.4 LTS. Apparently total compatibility. Go into the bios (update it to latest first), turn off the hyperthreading, install from the cd, then add isolcpus=1 to the kernel command line in grub.conf, and its off to the races. I have cat5 to both boxes, and update-manager scans for updates daily, so when I go out to do something, I usually let them do the updates while I'm mounting the work. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! The best way to make a fire with two sticks is to make sure one of them is a match. -- Will Rogers -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 10/26/2012 2:10 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I did some testing yesterday. I upgraded the graphics driver (Nvidia) and the latency test went from 18 000 to 150 000... I removed the driver and reconfigured X and came down to a sweet 7 000, but there's something messing things up as the latency all of a sudden popped up to 15 800. Running the machine headless is on my top prio to see what happens. Mesa card is high on the wish list too. I have a new machine project and Mesa is the way to go in that case (5 axis 3,3 m long). Andy, Gene and Pete, same guys replied to my questions ages ago. Good to see you're still here. :-) /S Glad to hear you are making progress, Sven. I know it's wrong but the little boy in me wants to do a victory dance. People keep downplaying the impact of the graphics subsystem but in my experience it still ranks ahead of other problems when latency kicks up. We remain blissfully ignorant of the interplay between the graphics hardware, its drivers, and the BIOS, in which direct-memory-access figure prominently. For a while I was hoping the open-source BIOS initiative would prevail but it remains irrelevant in the face of rapid advances in Intel x86 and ARM technology. I don't see any hope we'll ever have BIOSes we can not only examine but also fix (like when Intel screwed up its EPP-setting scheme). Running systems headless is one of the tests I routinely perform before posting latency-test results to the Wiki. On the plus side, I expect someday to see someone successfully exploit the GPU to offload some of our CNC calculations from the CPU. The horsepower is there; it's a matter of timing. Regards, Kent -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Fri, 2012-10-26 at 11:36 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote: On 10/26/2012 2:10 AM, Sven Wesley wrote: I did some testing yesterday. I upgraded the graphics driver (Nvidia) and the latency test went from 18 000 to 150 000... I removed the driver and reconfigured X and came down to a sweet 7 000, but there's something messing things up as the latency all of a sudden popped up to 15 800. Running the machine headless is on my top prio to see what happens. Mesa card is high on the wish list too. I have a new machine project and Mesa is the way to go in that case (5 axis 3,3 m long). Andy, Gene and Pete, same guys replied to my questions ages ago. Good to see you're still here. :-) /S Glad to hear you are making progress, Sven. I know it's wrong but the little boy in me wants to do a victory dance. People keep downplaying the impact of the graphics subsystem but in my experience it still ranks ahead of other problems when latency kicks up. We remain blissfully ignorant of the interplay between the graphics hardware, its drivers, and the BIOS, in which direct-memory-access figure prominently. For a while I was hoping the open-source BIOS initiative would prevail but it remains irrelevant in the face of rapid advances in Intel x86 and ARM technology. I don't see any hope we'll ever have BIOSes we can not only examine but also fix (like when Intel screwed up its EPP-setting scheme). Running systems headless is one of the tests I routinely perform before posting latency-test results to the Wiki. On the plus side, I expect someday to see someone successfully exploit the GPU to offload some of our CNC calculations from the CPU. The horsepower is there; it's a matter of timing. Regards, Kent Hi Kent, Offloading to the GPU is a most obvious approach in the manner of math profs with chalk in the right hand and the eraser in the left ...it is obvious that. grin Most of the present day GPU's wouldn't even strain handling motion the problem is simply that processors (GPU) are a moving target and reinventing the wheel with each new generation of GPU would be a pain to the most dedicated programmer. Now if one is bright enough (don't look at me) to build an engine that does the development the the strain gets lowered some. Sharing a video chip between motion and display would certainly present some interesting problems unless one has two boards and dedicates one to motion. Along different lines I keep waiting for someone to write a driver between linuxcnc and something like mesa's softdmc. Both of these rather break the original philosophy of emc/linuxcnc but nothing in technology is really static. Nomex suit is donned. Have at it. Dave -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 10/26/2012 11:19 AM, dave wrote: Hi Kent, Offloading to the GPU is a most obvious approach in the manner of math profs with chalk in the right hand and the eraser in the left ...it is obvious that. grin Most of the present day GPU's wouldn't even strain handling motion the problem is simply that processors (GPU) are a moving target and reinventing the wheel with each new generation of GPU would be a pain to the most dedicated programmer. Now if one is bright enough (don't look at me) to build an engine that does the development the the strain gets lowered some. Sharing a video chip between motion and display would certainly present some interesting problems unless one has two boards and dedicates one to motion. At my day job, we do a *LOT* of processing with the GPU, and it isn't really applicable to the LinuxCNC work-load. There aren't nearly enough parallel calculations required, and latency is a significant issue. The GPU excels when you need massively parallel calculations and can wait a bit for the results. Our use for the GPU is mixing and manipulating HD video images in real time, and we are operating on (very) large data sets in apx. 15 mS 'chunks', which would make for pretty lousy servo loop timing. Along different lines I keep waiting for someone to write a driver between linuxcnc and something like mesa's softdmc. I'm looking into the AM335x family of ARM chips from TI (ie: BeagleBone and friends). This part includes not only a 700+ MHz ARM core with 3D processor for running Linux, but two 32-bit microcontrollers that run at 1/2 the ARM clock frequency and have direct access to hardware I/O. I think this could make an excellent inexpensive LinuxCNC platform by crafting a software version of the normal Mesa/Pico hardware running hard real time on the embedded micro-controllers. Real hardware would still be faster and more capable, but the programmable micro-controllers would run rings around a normal x86 based parallel port software solution. There are also 3 high-performance PWM generators and hardware encoder inputs, so you could have 3 very high-performance channels and an arbitrary mix of slightly lower performance I/O implemented in software. ...oh, and there's a 12-bit A/D on board too. The catch will be to see what the latency numbers look like (I don't have hardware in-hand to play with yet, I'm waiting to see if my TI rep will get me one of these: http://www.ti.com/tool/tmdssk3358#3 or if I'll have to buy it myself). - -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCKu/UACgkQLywbqEHdNFxbAwCcDKQKYvtLEfUScHdVtDBdbhts zGMAniawz5Ob2F7vK/t+LXi6xAm38M8m =aho+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Sven Wesley wrote: I did some testing yesterday. I upgraded the graphics driver (Nvidia) and the latency test went from 18 000 to 150 000... I removed the driver and reconfigured X and came down to a sweet 7 000, but there's something messing things up as the latency all of a sudden popped up to 15 800. If 15,800 is the worst it gets, that really isn't too bad. You may be able to turn off some acceleration options in the video driver. Big bit block transfers from screen memory to main memory can bog the CPU down and cause latency hiccups. Or, it could be the network interface, which you can't change. If you have a hyperthreading CPU, you generally want to turn that off in the BIOS screen. Running glxgears puts up a 3-D display that mimics the load the Axis 3-D preview creates. Also, hide and bring back to foreground a couple windows on the screen. If those operations don't cause your latency bump, then it may be the network, you can try a few sftp file transfers to see if that is the cause. Jon -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 10/26/2012 12:36 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: At my day job, we do a*LOT* of processing with the GPU, and it isn't really applicable to the LinuxCNC work-load. There aren't nearly enough parallel calculations required, and latency is a significant issue. The GPU excels when you need massively parallel calculations and can wait a bit for the results. Our use for the GPU is mixing and manipulating HD video images in real time, and we are operating on (very) large data sets in apx. 15 mS 'chunks', which would make for pretty lousy servo loop timing. Like I said, it's a matter of timing. I don't care if the GPU is underloaded but freely admit I didn't know how bad the timing issue is. By the way, I haven't gotten around to congratulating you on getting your MendelMax into operation. Good work! I'm still putzing with the extruder on my Mendel. Regards, Kent -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Fri, 2012-10-26 at 11:36 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote: ... snip People keep downplaying the impact of the graphics subsystem but in my experience it still ranks ahead of other problems when latency kicks up. We remain blissfully ignorant of the interplay between the graphics hardware, its drivers, and the BIOS, in which direct-memory-access figure prominently. ... snip I'm not sure this is related, but I just installed to an Intel motherboard and an xorg.conf with only an entry for vertrefresh and horizsync to match my monitor was the difference between a boot crash and running just fine. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- The Windows 8 Center In partnership with Sourceforge Your idea - your app - 30 days. Get started! http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ what-html-developers-need-to-know-about-coding-windows-8-metro-style-apps/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com On Fri, 2012-10-26 at 11:36 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote: ... snip People keep downplaying the impact of the graphics subsystem but in my experience it still ranks ahead of other problems when latency kicks up. We remain blissfully ignorant of the interplay between the graphics hardware, its drivers, and the BIOS, in which direct-memory-access figure prominently. ... snip To me it's annoying that I can get 15 800 only (which I've lived with since last spring) when I had less than 10 000 before the upgrade. GPUs are extremely well performing when it comes to shoveling lists. One of my old work mates are nowadays using a server cluster of servers with 8 graphic cards each running fund and exchange predictions. It's seems pretty messy to integrate with though. Me, I stay with the must-not-be-fast-but-never-die-programming. But that doesn't include my CNC machines, they should be really fast. :) /S -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 10/26/2012 12:36 PM, Charles Steinkuehler wrote: The catch will be to see what the latency numbers look like (I don't have hardware in-hand to play with yet, I'm waiting to see if my TI rep will get me one of these:http://www.ti.com/tool/tmdssk3358#3 or if I'll have to buy it myself). It looks like it could be usable for LinuxCNC, but are they kidding about using it as a thermostat? $199 for a smart thermostat, and you still have to add temperature sensing AND the switch to drive the heating system. Seems link TI doesn't know what applications this thing would really be good for. -- WINDOWS 8 is here. Millions of people. Your app in 30 days. Visit The Windows 8 Center at Sourceforge for all your go to resources. http://windows8center.sourceforge.net/ join-generation-app-and-make-money-coding-fast/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Nevertheless, Sven, it would helpful to know details about your computer---motherboard, bios version, cpu, ram, etc. Like Michael said, I do not see yet how an OS version change should make much difference here. Yes, we want to help you get back your performance, but we also want to be able to characterize how an OS version change may or may not affect others. I personally don't believe that a change to another distribution will recover anything like a 30-percent drop in performance. One of the things I've been annoyed by in recent distributions is the ever increasing requirement for hardware support of OpenGL and its extensions. A recent rant http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTIxMTg is instructive. With this in mind (and you did mentioned graphics first), have you tried my favorite trick and run your LinuxCNC host in headless mode, using another computer to provide X services? A quick test would confirm if you are being undone by your host's graphics subsystem. Regards, Kent True, I could gather some HW info and post it. I'll do that. Your idea with a headless machine is a great test! I have a small feeling that graphics is a suspect in my system. I also had an idea of swapping the graphics card with another one to see if there's something happening. @Lars, in my first post I write about servo drives and speed, I'm not sure _how_that_ can be translated into G-code loading. When EMC2 was moved to 10.04 there where quite a few who found out that the latency went up and machine speed was lost, that was while ago and I ignored it by the time because I stayed on the 8.04-release. /S -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Hi, @Lars, in my first post [..] to avoid any confusion for other readers: I sent a private mail to Sven yesterday explaining that FMPOV he needs to be more specific about the meaning of speed and how he measured its decline. cheers, Lars -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 25 October 2012 08:48, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: True, I could gather some HW info and post it. I'll do that. Your idea with a headless machine is a great test! Software open-GL might be another interesting test along the same lines. If this is a servo system, though, it would seem unlikely that latency would have any effect on the performance of the CNC machine, so this might all be a blind alley. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/25 Lars Kruse li...@sumpfralle.de Hi, @Lars, in my first post [..] to avoid any confusion for other readers: I sent a private mail to Sven yesterday explaining that FMPOV he needs to be more specific about the meaning of speed and how he measured its decline. cheers, Lars Sorry Lars, didn't see that the message was privately sent. My apologies. /S -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
True, I could gather some HW info and post it. I'll do that. Your idea with a headless machine is a great test! Software open-GL might be another interesting test along the same lines. If this is a servo system, though, it would seem unlikely that latency would have any effect on the performance of the CNC machine, so this might all be a blind alley. In fact, this is a servo based step/dir system (my big steel router) and not a closed loop á la Mesa style servo system. /S -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 25 October 2012 11:44, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, this is a servo based step/dir system (my big steel router) and not a closed loop á la Mesa style servo system. If you are limited by software step generation then I strongly advocate a change to a Mesa 5i25 if you have a PCI slot. The pinout may be identical on the DB25 so you have no wiring changes to make, and you might well find that you have very much more performance than you had before unless the previous limit was servo performance. I think that counts as a way to get the performance back. Though it will cost you $80. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/25 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com On 25 October 2012 11:44, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, this is a servo based step/dir system (my big steel router) and not a closed loop á la Mesa style servo system. If you are limited by software step generation then I strongly advocate a change to a Mesa 5i25 if you have a PCI slot. The pinout may be identical on the DB25 so you have no wiring changes to make, and you might well find that you have very much more performance than you had before unless the previous limit was servo performance. I think that counts as a way to get the performance back. Though it will cost you $80. Now we're talking. :) -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Thursday 25 October 2012 10:48:10 Sven Wesley did opine: 2012/10/25 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com On 25 October 2012 11:44, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, this is a servo based step/dir system (my big steel router) and not a closed loop ل la Mesa style servo system. If you are limited by software step generation then I strongly advocate a change to a Mesa 5i25 if you have a PCI slot. The pinout may be identical on the DB25 so you have no wiring changes to make, and you might well find that you have very much more performance than you had before unless the previous limit was servo performance. I think that counts as a way to get the performance back. Though it will cost you $80. Now we're talking. :) I'd agree, but those of us using the D525MW need a 5i25 that will fit that teeny little slot on that board. It has crossed my mind to do that at least once in the last year, but that is the show stopper. Its something that I would need to get to a RELIABLE 20 ipm on the z drive of my lathe. I think I can get to about 35ipm IF I had enough psu to hold the voltage up while the driver was set wide open (4.2 amps, a bit under the motors needs for full jerk wired parallel) the 8 wire motor was wired parallel. My x motor is wired that way now, but needs more psu and psu cooling to do that to Z. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! One good turn deserves another. -- Gaius Petronius -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Gene Heskett wrote: I'd agree, but those of us using the D525MW need a 5i25 that will fit that teeny little slot on that board. It has crossed my mind to do that at least once in the last year, but that is the show stopper. Its something that I would need to get to a RELIABLE 20 ipm on the z drive of my lathe. I think I can get to about 35ipm IF I had enough psu to hold the voltage up while the driver was set wide open (4.2 amps, a bit under the motors needs for full jerk wired parallel) the 8 wire motor was wired parallel. My x motor is wired that way now, but needs more psu and psu cooling to do that to Z. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. 2B-Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! One good turn deserves another. -- Gaius Petronius The 5i25 works fine in a D525MW... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Thursday 25 October 2012 14:54:50 Peter C. Wallace did opine: On Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Gene Heskett wrote: I'd agree, but those of us using the D525MW need a 5i25 that will fit that teeny little slot on that board. It has crossed my mind to do that at least once in the last year, but that is the show stopper. Its something that I would need to get to a RELIABLE 20 ipm on the z drive of my lathe. I think I can get to about 35ipm IF I had enough psu to hold the voltage up while the driver was set wide open (4.2 amps, a bit under the motors needs for full jerk wired parallel) the 8 wire motor was wired parallel. My x motor is wired that way now, but needs more psu and psu cooling to do that to Z. Cheers, Gene The 5i25 works fine in a D525MW... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics I was under the impression it was straight pci, Peter. And my boards IIRC have a teeny little pci-e slot. But I'll sure look again. Wet ram, at my age, isn't that dependable. :) -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! #if _FP_W_TYPE_SIZE 64 #error Only stud muffins allowed, schmuck. #endif -- linux/arch/sparc64/quad.c -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
I was under the impression it was straight pci, Peter. And my boards IIRC have a teeny little pci-e slot. The 6i25 is the PCIE version of the 5i25. Stephen -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Thursday 25 October 2012 16:30:11 Stephen Dubovsky did opine: I was under the impression it was straight pci, Peter. And my boards IIRC have a teeny little pci-e slot. The 6i25 is the PCIE version of the 5i25. Stephen And a careful look at the MB's connector layout, it shows the D525MW has BOTH a single full pci slot against the left edge, AND a mini-pci-e that takes a laydown card of limited height else it hits the pci slot or a card in it. And I don't recall putting anything in either slot when I unpacked them. Am I to understand then that if I put a 5i25 in, the regular parport then becomes available for other controls? This would be rather handy on the mill, for stuff like controlling the air to the mister etc. Thinking... :) Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! Beauty: What's in your eye when you have a bee in your hand. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 25 October 2012 21:38, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Am I to understand then that if I put a 5i25 in, the regular parport then becomes available for other controls? Yes. But then for only another $120 you could add a 7i76 and have a handy breakout and 32(?) proper IO pins in addition to the step/dir outputs. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On Thursday 25 October 2012 17:30:38 andy pugh did opine: On 25 October 2012 21:38, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Am I to understand then that if I put a 5i25 in, the regular parport then becomes available for other controls? Yes. But then for only another $120 you could add a 7i76 and have a handy breakout and 32(?) proper IO pins in addition to the step/dir outputs. For me and my toys, that is serious overkill, Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! I called my parents the other night, but I forgot about the time difference. They're still living in the fifties. -- Strange de Jim -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/23 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com On 23 October 2012 09:48, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: I really not want to step back to Ubuntu 8... If it worked better, why not? Because it's old, to begin with. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Am 23.10.2012 um 10:48 schrieb Sven Wesley: Guys, I know, poor performance is a every-now-and-then-upcoming-debate... I had pretty good performance with my old servo drives and Ubuntu 8. I upgraded to better (more secure) and faster drives and the speed was marvelous. And then I upgraded to Ubuntu 10 and lost 30 % speed. If I push the values higher I get RTAI errors. I'm not using the latest drop, and I think that's not the issue. I would like to keep Axis, I like it. I really not want to step back to Ubuntu 8... Anyone with a good speed up suggestion? Should I go Debian? Turn the graphic into monochrome?.. the guys wont be able to tell with the level of detail you gave, because the crystal ball is dark today Please post a configuration, describe the hardware, and explain changing which values get you exactly which RTAI errors - since you talk about a servo configuration which has actually moderate requirements if it only requires a servo thread, I do not see yet how an OS version change should make much difference here. without that information you can expect only random guesswork in response. - Michael Regards, Sven -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
the guys wont be able to tell with the level of detail you gave, because the crystal ball is dark today Please post a configuration, describe the hardware, and explain changing which values get you exactly which RTAI errors - since you talk about a servo configuration which has actually moderate requirements if it only requires a servo thread, I do not see yet how an OS version change should make much difference here. without that information you can expect only random guesswork in response. - Michael I have the exact config now as in 8.04, but my config is not what I would like to discuss. I'm interested in what type of config changes outside LinuxCNC that can bring the speed up, for example if someone have experience with another distribution, graphical tuning and such. Not to be rude, but I'm quite aware of config possibilities. I've been subscribed to the list for more than a decade, I think I see myself as one of the guys. ;) /S -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
2012/10/24 Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com the guys wont be able to tell with the level of detail you gave, because the crystal ball is dark today Please post a configuration, describe the hardware, and explain changing which values get you exactly which RTAI errors - since you talk about a servo configuration which has actually moderate requirements if it only requires a servo thread, I do not see yet how an OS version change should make much difference here. without that information you can expect only random guesswork in response. - Michael I have the exact config now as in 8.04, but my config is not what I would like to discuss. I'm interested in what type of config changes outside LinuxCNC that can bring the speed up, for example if someone have experience with another distribution, graphical tuning and such. Not to be rude, but I'm quite aware of config possibilities. I've been subscribed to the list for more than a decade, I think I see myself as one of the guys. ;) /S ...To correct myself, I actually don't have the same config as the jitter went up with 30-40 % when I moved to Ubuntu 10. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 10/24/2012 3:28 PM, Sven Wesley wrote: the guys wont be able to tell with the level of detail you gave, because the crystal ball is dark today Please post a configuration, describe the hardware, and explain changing which values get you exactly which RTAI errors - since you talk about a servo configuration which has actually moderate requirements if it only requires a servo thread, I do not see yet how an OS version change should make much difference here. without that information you can expect only random guesswork in response. - Michael I have the exact config now as in 8.04, but my config is not what I would like to discuss. I'm interested in what type of config changes outside LinuxCNC that can bring the speed up, for example if someone have experience with another distribution, graphical tuning and such. Not to be rude, but I'm quite aware of config possibilities. I've been subscribed to the list for more than a decade, I think I see myself as one of the guys. ;) /S Nevertheless, Sven, it would helpful to know details about your computer---motherboard, bios version, cpu, ram, etc. Like Michael said, I do not see yet how an OS version change should make much difference here. Yes, we want to help you get back your performance, but we also want to be able to characterize how an OS version change may or may not affect others. I personally don't believe that a change to another distribution will recover anything like a 30-percent drop in performance. One of the things I've been annoyed by in recent distributions is the ever increasing requirement for hardware support of OpenGL and its extensions. A recent rant http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTIxMTg is instructive. With this in mind (and you did mentioned graphics first), have you tried my favorite trick and run your LinuxCNC host in headless mode, using another computer to provide X services? A quick test would confirm if you are being undone by your host's graphics subsystem. Regards, Kent -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
Guys, I know, poor performance is a every-now-and-then-upcoming-debate... I had pretty good performance with my old servo drives and Ubuntu 8. I upgraded to better (more secure) and faster drives and the speed was marvelous. And then I upgraded to Ubuntu 10 and lost 30 % speed. If I push the values higher I get RTAI errors. I'm not using the latest drop, and I think that's not the issue. I would like to keep Axis, I like it. I really not want to step back to Ubuntu 8... Anyone with a good speed up suggestion? Should I go Debian? Turn the graphic into monochrome?.. Regards, Sven -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] What should I do to get the performance back?
On 23 October 2012 09:48, Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com wrote: I really not want to step back to Ubuntu 8... If it worked better, why not? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_sfd2d_oct ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
