Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Will Europe really ban ICEVs?

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 at 16:13, EV List Lackey via EV  wrote:

> They wanted the EU to allow something that didn't - and still doesn't -
> actually exist in the real world: "E-fuels," synthetic fuels made from
> electrolyzed hydrogen and CO2 (somehow) captured from the atmosphere.

Whilst they may not exist at scale, they do exist. I have a supplier
just 40 miles away and have run a tank of it in my Lotus Excel.

> It's not tough to see the gross inefficiency inherent in such fuels.

Yes and the cost reflects that. I took advantage of a publicity event
to try a tank of Sustain 80 (80% blend). I'm normally paying £1.50 per
Litre for 99 Octane (RON), 94 (PON). I don't have an up to date price
for Sustain 80 (98 RON), but it was about £4.60 per litre in June last
year. Most of the cost of my normal fuel is tax. Most of the cost of
Sustain is energy. That energy requirement won't ever change.

SAF (sustainable aircraft fuel) is also a real thing and is being used
in blends up to 80% by various airlines. 100% blends will be in use
soon once the rubber seals in the fuel systems have been replaced by
PTFE versions during their normal service schedule.


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Re: [EVDL] Motorola EV Corvette

[Paul Compton via EV]

The Motorola Corvette EV is being restored.

https://youtu.be/G7awv5KS3Nw?si=taJWWPcAcKtOgDL_

On Thu, 22 Sept 2022 at 17:15, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
> EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
> > Intriguing! This seems to be the story's origin:
> >
> > https://www.thedrive.com/culture/we-found-motorolas-secret-chevy-corvette-ev-
> > prototype-from-the-1990s
> >
> > or https://v.gd/NbYpwY
> >
> > One wonders why an organization with presumably deep pockets had to start
> > with a used glider.
>
> I agree that the author seems a bit clueless about EVs and their
> history. I sent him an email with additional details.
>
> > The article's author calls this an "EV prototype"
>
> Yes, it was a test bed. Motorola was a big semiconductor supplier to the
> auto industry. They routinely wrote application notes to encourage
> automotive engineers to use their parts. Of course they had to test
> their circuits, to be sure they really worked. The Corvette was a good
> (and fun) way for the engineers to do it!
>
> They didn't make it public because auto company executives would be
> outraged if (for example) Ford knew that "their" circuits were designed
> and tested in a (gasp choke) GM vehicle!
>
> > So a little possibly irresponsible speculation: maybe Motorola management
> > looked at GM's 1990 Impact prototype and the Hughes AC "Vector Drive," and
> > wondered whether Motorola might catch some of the potential EV market.
>
> Many of Motorola's industrial and automotive EV application notes were
> collected and published in the "Motor Control Electronics Handbook" by
> Richard Valentine (c) 1998. The authors and references are almost all
> Motorola Semiconductor employees and application notes. There you'll
> find the 'Vette's motor controller, charger, power steering (and more),
> all laid out completely enough that one could actually build them.
>
> > The article... suggests that it's a series DC motor.
> > But... it sounds more like an AC induction drive of the time.
>
> Yes; it was an AC induction motor. But there were probably DC motors in
> the vehicle as well, for things like the power steering pump and A/C
> compressor.
>
> BTW, the Valentine book also describes a DC traction motor drive system
> in a Ford pickup truck. Maybe another test bed of the Motorola group?
>
> > The Impact, Hughes, and AC Propulsion drives all ran in the 300-400 volt
> > range, though not at 1000 amps.
>
> Not 1000 amps continuous; the batteries weren't up to it. But remember
> that the motor controller steps the voltage down and the current up. It
> could well have delivered 1000 amps peak to the motor.
>
> > Bummer that the article's author wasn't more knowledgeable about EVs.  One
> > of us might have figured out a LOT more, given the same opportunity to nose
> > around it.  Does anyone here live close to Gurnee, Illinois?
>
> It would indeed be interesting to hear an expert's opinion on the vehicle!
>
> For one thing, I expect that the (few) batteries in it weren't original,
> but added by someone attempting to see if the vehicle still worked.
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> "#3 pencils and quadrille pads." -- Seymour Cray, when asked
> what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer
> --
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>
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Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, Hub motors.

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 at 15:46, Josh Landess via EV  wrote:

> Your own points can be added to the skeptical side of my watching
> things, but just to balance this out a bit, it does appear that Saietta
> does still exist, as a quoted company (albeit on the AIM tier in London)
> and here is an April announcement of a sale of products, though to
> another small last-mile EV listed company in the US.

If you've been around the EV scene long enough, you will have come
across many 'smoke and mirrors' companies that seem to exist entirely
on grant money and private equity.

All of the 'products' on their website are renders.

Cedric had developed a brushless version of his motor and Saietta were
meant to be productionising it. They had examples on display at
Cenex-LCV a couple of years ago and would confidently tell you they
could be ordered, but talking to Cedric (whom I've known since about
1993), they were just mock-ups and no production ready example
actually existed.



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Re: [EVDL] EV Grin doubled, Hub motors.

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 at 00:23, Josh Landess via EV  wrote:

> and we have this other blast-from-the-past:
> https://www.saietta.com/about-us/
> however, I don't know if they are presently trying to offer the in-wheel
> product.  I don't presently see language about it on their page.

The words "Saietta" and "product" shouldn't really appear in the same sentence!

They did sell the AGNI (Lynch) motor for a while, but the legal
partnership turned out not to actually exhist (Cedric and Arvind ended
up getting "paid off" with Lithium cells and PV panels).They'd stopped
servicing motors, or supply spares, even whilst still selling them.

They are masters of vapourware and hype. Mostly what they sell is
consultancy services and feasibility studies, the value of which is
somewhat questionable.

I was invited there for a tour and a meeting and offered contract work
as a result, but it soon became evident that they wouldn't pay a
reasonable day rate.
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Re: [EVDL] China fires back!

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Thu, 6 Apr 2023 at 19:10, paul dove via EV  wrote:

> I wouldn't expect China to produce anything worth having in the near future 
> or possibly at all.
> Harbor Freight as been here a long time and most of their products are still 
> inferior.

That's a US company buying the cheapest crap they can and making a good markup.

Many world class products are made in China, you just don't know they
were made there.

By all means, bury your head ever deeper.

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Re: [EVDL] Tesla - car company from scratch

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 at 19:55, paul dove via EV  wrote:
>
> Allen was the engineer that designed the EV1 drive train for GM.

Alan Cocconi designed the twin inverters for the Aerovironment Impact.
The EV1 inverter was designed by Hughes Aerospace.

Ref; "The Car That Could"

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Re: [EVDL] Tesla accepting CCS

[Paul Compton via EV]

There's an old joke that a Camel is a horse designed by committee.

The CCS charging standard appears to have been designed by a committee
of Camels.

https://youtu.be/q_F7h5qcTJY

On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 at 16:53, Evan Tuer via EV  wrote:
>
> I fully agree.  Even the "Euro" Tesla high power connector would have been
> preferable to CCS combo-2.  The engineers did a great job on both.
> Tesla management could have capitalised on that 10 years ago, but did not.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 9:16 PM (-Phil-) via EV  wrote:
>
> > Having a lot of experience with all 3 connectors and being an Electrical
> > Engineer, I have to say Tesla's connector is superior to CCS or CHAdeMO.
> > It's more rugged, cheaper to manufacture, and uses less space and
> > materials.   If Tesla had "opened" its standard before CCS was ratified,
> > then maybe they would have had a chance at being a standard.
> >
> > Too little too late.  Now Tesla is going to have to add the clunky CCS
> > connectors to its network at considerable expense.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 7:09 PM John Lussmyer via EV 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 12/15/2022 6:12 PM, EV List Lackey via EV wrote:
> > > > On 15 Dec 2022 at 11:23, Evan Tuer via EV wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I know that they are trying to get the Tesla plug legislated as the US
> > > >> standard but that's inevitably going to fail and seems rather bad
> > faith.
> > > > Oh great.  That's much like what GM did with the EV1 inductive paddle.
> > > What
> > > > a dead end that was.
> > > The one thing is that the Tesla plug can handle more current, and is
> > > easier for the end user.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EU agrees on 2035 ICEV ban, sort of

[Paul Compton via EV]

Lead Acid batteries are 95% recyclable.

Lead Acid batteries are 95% recycled.


These are two very different statements, but very many people lack the
reading or comprehension skills to understand the difference.

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Re: [EVDL] leaf heater switch

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Fri, 20 May 2022 at 19:50, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> Here's one of the reasons Tesla is better: lower drag coefficient. Why does 
> that matter?

You seem to be under the impression that a lower Cd equals lower drag.

You might want to go and look up the meaning of the word coefficient.

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Re: [EVDL] Followup: Nissan Leaf 2013 Cold Brake (dropout) Recall

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 at 23:29, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> The voltage on a lead-acid battery goes _up_ in cold weather, by the way.

A temperature compensated charger will use a higher charge voltage in
cold weather.

The open circuit voltage goes down with temperature, Lead Acid
typically has a thermal coefficient of about +0.2 mV per degree
Celcius

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Re: [EVDL] The state of EV's 1890 to 1922

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Fri, 14 May 2021 at 03:28, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:

> Wind drag only becomes significant beginning at about 45 MPH

Tell that to a cyclist.

This was something that automotive designers used to say years ago and
what they meant was...

We have so much engine power available, that aerodynamic drag isn't
affecting vehicle performance until you exceed 45mph.
They weren't much concerned with fuel economy.

Motorcycles have truly horrible aerodynamics,but some attempts at
improvement have been made over the years. The Royal Enfield
Dreamliner was one example and as well as top speed and economy, it
actually improved acceleration, despite a 40 or so pound weight
penalty.

https://www.oldbikemart.co.uk/the-dreamliner-lives-on/

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Re: [EVDL] Nano diamond batteries.

[Paul Compton via EV]

Arsewater hype of the highest order.

Nuclear decay batteries have been around for decades. They produce
MICROAMPS of current, but have applications in things like implantable
medical devices.

The ONLY thing different about this one is that it incorporates a
supercapacitor, so it can supply a burst of power for something like a
radio transmitter.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 at 17:51, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
>
>  Where does the energy come from? https://ndb.technology/ Lawrence Rhodes
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Curtis Fault Diagnosis

[Paul Compton via EV]

No BMS should ever just disconnect the battery under load, unless it's
a critical safety issue.

On Thu, 22 Apr 2021 at 05:18, John Titman via EV  wrote:
>
> Hello all :
> I have installed an additional contactor on my  project electric car to
> provide
>  a   means for the Orion BMS  to shut down the  the battery  in the event a
> low battery voltage is detected . I obviously damaged the  Curtis 1239e
> controller because now the controller flashes a multitude of fault codes.
>   Has any one experience with Curtis fault code diagnosis?
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Pandemic Cell Fade

[Paul Compton via EV]

Because it's calculating range based on driving style?

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 19:14, Bill Dennis via EV  wrote:
>
> Pre-pandemic, when my mother-in-law charged her 2017 Chevy Volt, it would
> have about 60 miles electric range.  Throughout the pandemic, she's done
> nothing with the car except drive it to the top of the driveway and back to
> check the mail.  When we were finally able to get to Georgia to visit her
> this week after fifteen months, I notice that a full charge shows only 40
> miles range now.  Anyone ever notice anything similar, or have any guess
> why?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>
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Re: [EVDL] Updating old EV truck with genset?

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Tue, 2 Feb 2021 at 17:35, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:

> Have you actually tried that?  Saying it is easy, but from what I've read,
> actually getting bits of the Prius drive system to work outside of the
> Prius's complex computer-controlled environment isn't trivial.  Has anyone
> here succeeded?

The openinverter.org community has been able to make many combinations
of components work together, either with CANbus control, or with open
source based control boards.


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Re: [EVDL] Citicar brake springs

[Paul Compton via EV]

When looking for springs, it might just be worth contacting a company
that makes springs.

Quite a few of them have website based spring designers and for simple
compression and tension springs, you can often order direct from the
website.

Where a particular hook shape is required for a brake spring, a phone
call might be required.

On Fri, 4 Dec 2020 at 09:26, Gail Lucas via EV  wrote:
>
> David, thank you for this info. Dach also sent me some suggestions on
> where to look for the springs. The EVlist is such a great resource when
> one wants to find EV parts.
>
> Gail
>
> On 12/2/2020 6:48 PM, EVDL Administrator wrote:
> > I don't know the brake chronology of C-cars, so this may not help.  When I
> > was looking for brake parts for my 1980 Comuta-Car, a local utility vehicle
> > company identified them as the same brakes used on some Cushman scooters. I
> > don't recall the prices they quoted me, just that they were shockingly high.
> > This would have been in the late 1980s.
> >
> > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
> >
> > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >   The future is here, and everything needs to be destroyed.
> >
> >  -- Allegheny Shredders
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
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[EVDL] Something from my archive

[Paul Compton via EV]

I finally got around to doing a crude transfer of some old EV related
video tapes.

Some familiar faces in the first one.
https://youtu.be/Ux2BxFVIW_k
https://youtu.be/hI2AIXWldPc
https://youtu.be/ykfIXQhDhyw

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Re: [EVDL] keeping LeeH connected: How far ...

[Paul Compton via EV]

As well as the windows machines, I have Linux Lite installed on a Dell
Latitude E6400 from about 2008. Easy installation, the only manual
intervention was finding the WiFi driver.

Youtube works just fine. Or at least as well as YT ever works on anything.

On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 07:07, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
> evln via EV wrote:
> > There are ways around not having a strong internet connecion
> > to view youtube videos.
> >
> > You could use
> > https://x2convert.com
> >   to convert the streaming video's audio to a .mp3 file you could
> > download and listen to.
> >
> > If I remember correctly, years ago, Lee held bragging-rights to
> > having his internet access via an old 486 pc on outdated operating
> > system and outdated browsers.
>
> Yep; guilty as charged. :-) All I had was dial-up, and my old Prodigy
> email program was still pretty fast because it didn't load any of the
> bloat. But it's long-gone. Any poor soul that tries to use dial-up on
> the modern internet is doomed!
>
> > I would have hoped by now that situation had changed when more up-to-date
> > PCs...
>
> The PC itself isn't so much the problem. My current PC is an HP 6000
> Pro, which isn't all that old. The problem is that I have a DSL line,
> which averages 100-200k b/sec. Fine for email, slow for bloated web
> pages, and terrible for video.
>
> Also, I hate Windows, and so am using linux. For whatever reason,
> Youtube refuses to work with any of my linux browsers. The error
> messages say it needs HTML5; but my browsers work fine with HTML5 files
> from any other source.
>
> > Like Peppermnt
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=peppermint+linux
> >   or linux mint (or others)
> > https://www.google.com/search?q=linux+mint
>
> I'm running Puppy linux. I've tried a few others, but got lost in
> "configuration hell". They might be fine for a linux expert, but I'm a
> rank amateur.
>
> > I had to upgrade to a new android 9 smartphone...
>
> To show what a luddite I am, I don't *have* a smartphone! For one thing,
> the text is too hard to read for my tired old eyes. For another, my fat
> old fingers can't type on the tiny keyboards. I've tried a tablet, but
> even that's too small. (I'm reading this on a 17" monitor set to 1024x768).
>
> Also I don't have cable, and don't watch TV, and don't play video games.
> And no facebook, no twitter... I don't use *any* social media at all.
>
> > Perhaps if Lee had one of these with a weeks worth of
> > video url links stored on it, when he goes out to do his
> > weekly shopping, he could stop off at a wifi site parking
> > lot and (legally) mooch some free internet to stream &
> > watch videos like everyone else?
>
> Folks must think I lead a life of desperation without all the modern
> (in)convenieces of being totally addicted to a smartphone and endlessly
> immersed in the online world. Quite the contrary; I enjoy the real world
> a lot more than the online world! I have real friends that I actually
> see in person, and real hobbies where I build stuff that has nothing to
> do with computers.
>
> The more time I spend online, the LESS I get done!
>
> Lee Hart
>
> --
> A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
> nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
>  -- Antoine de Saint Exupery
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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[EVDL] How far can you go?

[Paul Compton via EV]

Fell down the Thames TV archive rabbit hole and came across this
report on the 1973 oil crisis. Note the fuel consumption of the Ford
Thunderbird and its tank capacity.

"I'll buy an EV once it can go the same distance as a full tank of fuel"

https://youtu.be/ClaNhx71XB8

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Re: [EVDL] Charging .cn EV explodes in Sanming China (v)

[Paul Compton via EV]

There are a lot of home market Chinese EVs.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 16:40, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
>
> On 23 Aug 2020 at 12:05, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
> > Looks like a leaf!
>
> I don't know what it is, but I don't think it's a Leaf, unless Chinese
> Leaves look dramatically different from the US version.  The wheels look
> similar, and that's about all.  Unless my eyes are fooling me, the shape is
> completely different from both generations.
>
> It might be some kind of hybrid.  Note what could be a fuel filler port on
> the left rear quarter panel.
>
> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey
>
> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my
> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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>  salary depends on his not understanding it.
>
>  -- Upton Sinclair
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Re: [EVDL] excellent EV project cars

[Paul Compton via EV]

Gen2 onwards Prius inverters operate at up to 650 volt on the DC bus.

If the openinverter.org link doesn't work for you (works fine for me),
you could just try typing it into Google as a search term.

On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 03:58, David Chapman via EV  wrote:
>
> What voltage are these? I have an electric A/C compressor that I am not sure 
> but "think" that is what it was for. I will check the cars out on Google, 
> your link doesn't seem to work. Dach.
>
> "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" - Theodore Roosevelt “We 
> reached the old wolf in time to watch a fierce green fire dying in her eyes 
>  I was young then, and full of trigger-itch; I thought that because fewer 
> wolves meant more deer, that no wolves would mean hunters’ paradise. But 
> after seeing the green fire die, I sensed that neither the wolf nor the 
> mountain agreed with such a view.” - Aldo Leopold
>
> On Saturday, August 22, 2020, 3:01:41 PM MST, Paul Compton via EV 
>  wrote:
>
>  Controllers are easy. Just pair a dirt cheap Prius inverter with an
> open source ECU.
>
> openinverter.org
>
> On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 at 22:46, Robert Bruninga via EV  
> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of a goldmine of used EV cars, consider the 400 THINKS that were
> > imported to the USA in the 2012 time frame.
> >
> > They have AC motors, but once the controller goes, its hard to find a
> > working controller.
> >
> > I keep hoping that an energetic EVDL hacker will figure out how to hook up
> > an off the shelf AC motor controller to the motor and just abandon the
> > original..
> >
> > I have two of these, and a guy in the same neighborhood has 4.  The main
> > places to find them are the mid-atlantic states, Indianna and a large
> > pocket of them in Oregon (where the only knowledgible tech lives).
> >
> > They go for about $500 to $1500.  though built in Europe, they use mostly
> > FORD parts
> > Their original range was about 100 miles.  Use lithium cells.
> >  You can see mine at the top of th is page:  http://aprs.org/my-EVs/html
> >
> > bob
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: 
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> >
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] excellent EV project cars

[Paul Compton via EV]

Controllers are easy. Just pair a dirt cheap Prius inverter with an
open source ECU.

openinverter.org

On Sat, 22 Aug 2020 at 22:46, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:
>
> Speaking of a goldmine of used EV cars, consider the 400 THINKS that were
> imported to the USA in the 2012 time frame.
>
> They have AC motors, but once the controller goes, its hard to find a
> working controller.
>
> I keep hoping that an energetic EVDL hacker will figure out how to hook up
> an off the shelf AC motor controller to the motor and just abandon the
> original..
>
> I have two of these, and a guy in the same neighborhood has 4.  The main
> places to find them are the mid-atlantic states, Indianna and a large
> pocket of them in Oregon (where the only knowledgible tech lives).
>
> They go for about $500 to $1500.  though built in Europe, they use mostly
> FORD parts
> Their original range was about 100 miles.  Use lithium cells.
>  You can see mine at the top of th is page:  http://aprs.org/my-EVs/html
>
> bob
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] BMS cell pairs

[Paul Compton via EV]

Many of the BMS systems out there are using chips designed for Laptop
and power tool packs where the BMS disconnects the pack from the load
or charger to prevent high/low cell voltage or overcurrent. Due to
their low cost, they have been 'beefed up' for high current use that
is not really appropriate. Having your battery disconnect under load,
or particularly under regen, will void the warranty on most
controllers. The BMS should signal the controller or charger to reduce
current.

I've been playing around with one of the cheap BMS units and modifying
it for external interfacing.
https://youtu.be/1N3kWStCo-s

On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 06:04, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
>
> It seems most battery pack builds use one bms per cell row.  That is two or 
> three batteries in parallel using one BMS.  If I am using A123 batteries that 
> could be up to 120amps for 2 in parallel. Must the BMS be rated for the full 
> 120 or would I go by the rated amps of the controller which in my case is 
> 40amps? How many batteries in parallel can I safely put on one BMS? Any 
> recommendations for reliable BMS? Lawrence Rhodes
> -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] pack-aging: Tesla has V2G

[Paul Compton via EV]

I'm on the Octopus Energy 'Agile' tariff, which means my electricity
price tracks the wholesale price every half hour. I have 3Kw of PV
installed facing roughly South and a further 1.2Kw split East-West. I
recently had a 5.6KWh grid tied battery installed. I just had my 7th
'plunge pricing' alert of the year, where for a few hours I would be
paid for any energy I draw from the grid. At the moment, I'm averaging
less than 2KWh import per day and I'm unlikely to be doing so during
the negative pricing times, but if I was doing significant miles in an
EV, I could install an EVSE with ITTT (If This Then That) integration
and be paid to top off the charge.

On Wed, 20 May 2020 at 09:52, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
>
> V2G smells a lot like time of use metering.  Too many utilities push TOU
> hard, especially in Europe, and then the residents discover that they've
> been bamboozled.  Despite paying for timers (and often electricians to
> install them), they end up paying MORE for electricity.  The utilities just
> don't offer enough of a break on the reduced rates, and have too much of a
> goose on the peak rates.
>
> Similarly, V2G is all benefit for the utility and none for the EV owner.
> You're risking not having a full charge when you expect it, and you're
> letting the utility add more cycles to your battery for -- what?  Unless
> they pay really handsomely, or (heaven forbid) make it mandatory, who's
> going to flip the switch, click the button, or sign the form to allow it?
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] Bob's Volt tight fit w/: Duosida j1772 handle

[Paul Compton via EV]

I found Lanoguard to be quite effective on the IEC109 connector of my G-Wiz.

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 16:44, Michael A. Radtke via EV
 wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Petroleum based lubricants swell rubber.  A silicone formulated
> lubricant rated for rubber might be a better choice.
>
> Mike
>
>  Original Message 
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 20:30:26 -0500
> From: Willie via EV 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: Willie 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Bob's Volt tight fit w/: Duosida j1772 handle
>
>
>
>
> On 4/15/20 11:12 AM, Willie wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 4/15/20 6:32 AM, paul dove via EV wrote:
> >> I can attest to this problem. My I-MiEV charger I bought is really
> >> tight and actually more difficult to unplug than plug in. The one that
> >> came with the car is fine but it was 120v 8 amps.
>
> BTW, my 2014 imievs came with 120vac EVSEs that switch between 8 and 12
> amps.
>
> >
> > Glad to hear that!  I have two imievs and both are tight on most of my
> > EVSEs.  To the point that they don't get contact if a newbie doesn't
> > know to listen for the fan which comes on with successful contact.  It
> > hasn't bothered me enough that I have tried lubrication.  Have you?
>
> I wrote the above, I tried lubricating.  Used some WD40 type stuff.  It
> allowed the nozzle to slip in easily.  The first time.  After a few
> days, it refused to go in no matter how much force I applied.
>
> It seems the lubricant had caused swelling in a plastic seal in the
> EVSE nozzle.  I ended up fishing the seal out (and discarding) with a
> sharp hook type tool.  Now, insertion is easy. It could be that a
> slightly swollen seal was the source of the problem.
>
> So, if you wish to try lubrication, I suggest trying something more
> viscus than common spray lubricant.  Grease, petroleum jelly or
> somesuch.
>
>
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[EVDL] A Brief History of Electric Cars

[Paul Compton via EV]

There's a segment on Cedric and his fully enclosed FF.

Not too bad, just ignore the bullshit about Aluminium Air batteries

https://youtu.be/gE1neFrGcMs

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Re: [EVDL] England's milk floats are back

[Paul Compton via EV]

I went back to having milk delivered, in reusable glass bottles,
several months ago. I'm with Milk & More as mentioned in the article.

All the deliveries are via diesel vehicles.

Very few distributors still have their original floats. The rounds
were nearly all gradually sold off as franchises, along with a float,
making sure it was the one with the battery nearest to replacement.
The franchise holder, faced with the high cost of replacement, would
then typically lease a diesel vehicle, despite the long term running
costs of the float being lower.

On Sun, 12 Apr 2020 at 20:02, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/11/milk-floats-ride-to-the-rescue-
> of-locked-down-british-households
>
> Milk floats ride to the rescue of locked-down British households
>
> The once ubiquitous electric float had seen its power wane. Then came the
> pandemic
>
> Nazia Parveen North of England correspondent
> Published on Sat 11 Apr 2020 02.00 EDT
>
> The humble milkman - a regular sight on most British streets throughout the
> 20th century - was almost consigned to the history books by the rise of the
> supermarkets.
>
> But now, thanks to the coronavirus pandemic, these dairy deliverers on their
> electric floats are busier than ever as they try to keep up with newfound
> demand for their services.
>
> Dairies are reporting a boom in customer numbers, with some recruiting
> hundreds of milkmen and women to help deal with the extra workload as
> shoppers try to reduce, or forgo, their trips to supermarkets.
>
> Scott Hughes, owner of Jackson´s Dairies in Stockport, which sources all its
> milk from farmers in the Peak District, said he first noticed an upsurge in
> orders when the virus hit China in January. Since then, the "phones have not
> stopped ringing".
>
> "It was just phenomenal - all of a sudden we were inundated," said Hughes.
> "Our doorstep canvasser went out and within 40 minutes he had signed up 30
> new customers - this would normally take him days."
>
> Since the outbreak, Hughes´s firm, which has been delivering milk since the
> 1950s, has seen an 83% rise in business - signing up more than 800 new
> customers in two weeks. Another 300 customers are on a waiting list.
>
> "Over the years, we experienced a steady decline and when we looked at it,
> it was always to do with price because we struggled to compete with
> supermarket prices," Hughes said.
>
> "But with this virus, and also a growing concern about the environment, we
> are starting to see a shift in the way people shop."
>
> He added: "Customers have been ringing 24/7 and it is not just elderly
> people, there is a complete variety - young people, people with children. We
> are just hoping when this is all over those customers will stay with us
> because they will have felt the benefits of having milk delivered to their
> home."
>
> Meanwhile, the country´s largest milk and groceries doorstep delivery
> service, Milk & More, is currently suspending new customer sign-ups, after
> reporting an increase of 25,000 customers. It has begun a recruitment
> campaign for 100 milk deliverers.
>
> The firm´s chief executive, Patrick Müller, said: "We have been at the heart
> of the communities in which we serve for decades, but potentially we have
> never had such an important role as we do now in this current health
> crisis."
>
> Colin Henderson, from Chester-le-Street in Durham, who has been delivering
> milk for 40 years, said: "The milk has gone berserk."
>
> Henderson said 60% of his customers were pensioners, and they enjoyed having
> regular contact with him. He is now wearing plastic gloves when he drops his
> milk, shakes and juices off on the doorstep.
>
> He added: "I have got a pile of notes from customers and my round is taking
> an extra hour every day now. The dairy I work with said it is just manic ... I
> just hope that after this is finished that people stay with us."
>
> Britain´s remaining milk delivery companies have been forced to adapt in
> recent years, and online orders have replaced rolled-up notes inside used
> bottles. Many have diversified by adding grocery items to deliveries, from
> bread, bacon and eggs to toilet roll and even compost.
>
> Trade association Dairy UK said 89% of all milk bought in Britain in 1980
> was on the doorstep but many firms closed because of changing consumer
> habits, and cheaper competition from supermarkets.
>
> In the mid-1990s, just 30% of milk was still delivered, falling to 2.8% in
> 2015 with many of the customers mainly elderly people.
>
> Growing consumer concern about plastic waste has led to a gentle increase in
> demand in recent years for doorstep deliveries of the reusable bottles. But
> the slight upward curve has now become mountainous.
>
> Dr Judith Bryans, chief executive of Dairy UK, said many of its members had
> seen huge increases in demand for milk deliveries as a result of the Covid-
> 19 crisis.
>
> "Many have taken on as many new 

Re: [EVDL] Ohio EV tax reduction

[Paul Compton via EV]

The rule of thumb is that damage to the road structure goes up in
proportion to the square of the axle load.

On Sat, 4 Apr 2020 at 06:12, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
>
> On 3 Apr 2020 at 19:03, Jim Walls via EV wrote:
>
> > My truck gets about 12 mpg, so 1,250 gallons or $1,062.50 total of
> > which $832.50 is state tax.
>
> That's a fair bit, but it seems to me that it might not be all that unfair
> or unreasonable.  Your big truck causes a lot more road wear and
> environmental damage than a Tesla 3 or Bolt.  Four times as much?  Eight
> times?  Now that I couldn't say.
>
> I understand from your other message that your work requires off-road
> driving ability, and you have to be able to haul a ton of cargo.  Still,
> somebody has to pay for the damage your truck does to our world.  You may
> not like hearing this, but I think that that has to be either your
> responsibility, or your employer's.
>
> It's a darn shame that US vehicle manufacturers can't figure out how to
> build heavy duty vehicles that aren't such fuel pigs.  If you lived almost
> anywhere else in the world, you could (for example) get a Isuzu D-Max 4WD.
> It carries up to 1.4 tons, uses a 1.9 liter Diesel and a 6-speed manual
> transmision, and gets 33mpg.  (If you insist on a slushbox, make that
> 30mpg.)
>
> The Isuzu's nearest US relative is the Chevrolet Colorado.  It hauls only
> 3/4 ton, has a 2.8 liter diesel, comes only with an automatic transmission,
> and gets 22mpg.
>
> Hang in there, though. Eventually maybe someone will build an EV pickup that
> will work for you.
>
> > Personally if I won the PowerBall, I would have a Tesla model S and
> > largely just use the truck for times when I needed it.  I would also
> > have a larger house with enough parking space in order to have
> > someplace to put it.
>
> Here's an idea.  What if you could sign a contract with a company to provide
> you the vehicle you needed day by day?  For daily use you could have a Tesla
> or Leaf.  If you needed to get lumber, you could drive to the vehicle depot
> and swap ithe Tesla for a pickup for the weekend.  For vacations you could
> trade it for a minivan or crossover.  You'd pay for each by mileage.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)

[Paul Compton via EV]

I recall that there is a company using Teslas as a taxi service
between Los Angeles and Las Vegas. Their Model S flagged up a cell
balance problem at 190,000 miles and its battery was replaced under
warranty. Tesla looked at the logs and advised in future that they
should not use the supercharger for every charge.

On Tue, 17 Mar 2020 at 16:36, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
>
> Thanks ! So, is it reasonably safe to say, especially with Tesla, that
> the BMS is preventing the kind of excess rapid charging demonstrated in
> the article ? It seems preposterous that significant damage is occurring
> to EV batteries. (I know it will cause slow, long term damage.) In which
> case, the article is intended to scare people and, perhaps, funded by
> you know who. I looked at the article again, but there's nothing ominous
> in the funding list.
>
> Insomnia: I laugh. When I was in high school, if I had insomnia
> (rarely), I remember I simply opened my history book and was asleep in a
> few minutes. (I really enjoy history, now, by the way.)
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Peter C. Thompson via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Peter C. Thompson" 
> Sent: 17-Mar-20 8:51:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or
> anti-EV-hype?)
>
> >Ah, finally, an area where I am an expert. :)
> >
> >The communication is defined in ISO 15118-2, the transport layers are in 
> >15118-3 (PLC) and 15118-8 (wifi). No one is using the wifi version for DC - 
> >only for wireless power.
> >
> >However, nowhere in the spec does the battery temp get sent. There is a 
> >warning when the battery is over temp, but that's about it.
> >Most of the time, the job of protecting the battery is the BMS. The BMS 
> >tells the EV-side charger how much power it can accept, and when to throttle 
> >power.
> >
> >Part of this is that the OEMs think that any info about the battery is 
> >confidential information.  Which is why SoC is optional, and not always sent 
> >to the charger.
> >
> >And yes, you are absolutely correct, Peri:  you DON'T want to read these 
> >specs... they are a very good cure for insomnia.
> >
> >Cheers, Peter
> >
> >On 3/17/20 7:05 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> >>Do you know more, yourself ? I don't really want to study the spec :)
> >>Peri
> >>
> >>-- Original Message --
> >>From: "paul dove" 
> >>To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> >>
> >>Sent: 17-Mar-20 4:52:28 AM
> >>Subject: Re: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)
> >>
> >>>DC fast chargers use HCL defined in ISO 15118-8 Specification.
> >>>
> >>>Volume eight is the physical and data link layer
> >>>
> >>>Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> On Mar 16, 2020, at 11:42 PM, Peri Hartman via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> I thought the level 3 chargers took into account cell temperature and 
> other conditions. I know, for example, that my almost 10 year old Leaf 
> battery charges at only about 10kw now. Something is communicating.
> 
> Peri
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "evln via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "evln" 
> Sent: 16-Mar-20 12:57:21 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] DC charging damages EV packs (?fact or anti-EV-hype?)
> 
> >
> >
> >https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2020/03/11/fast-charging-damages-electric-car-batteries
> >Fast-charging damages electric car batteries
> >Commercial fast-charging stations subject electric car batteries to high
> >temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack, leak, and
> >lose their ...
> >https://news.ucr.edu/sites/g/files/rcwecm1816/files/styles/news_article_featured_l/public/2020-03/broken%20Tesla%20battery.jpg
> >
> >
> >+
> >https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-03-03/southern-california-ev-jobs
> >The electric-vehicle industry is thriving in Southern California, report
> >says
> >2020-03-03  California is already a world leader in the embryonic 
> >electric
> >vehicle industry but needs more government help to flourish, according 
> >to a
> >new report from the Los ...
> >https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/b3308bf/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2048x1152+0+0/resize/840x473!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcalifornia-times-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F0f%2F14%2F66195340cd40e6cdeb681fd96501%2Fla-1497909600-8tndt61ti7-snap-image
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
> >http://www.evdl.org/archive/
> >https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html
> >
> >
> >{brucedp.neocities.org}
> >
> >-- Sent from: 
> >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> >___
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> 

Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Science sez maximize your EV's pack life

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Mon, 2 Mar 2020 at 22:53, jkenny23 via EV  wrote:

> However raw materials recycling is still in its infancy and probably not
> done at large scale yet, if at all.

Mostly due to a lack of feedstock.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Plugshare yer' Bolt EV to charge from Austin to the TX coast

[Paul Compton via EV]

The mess that is YouTube these days is most definitely NOT the BBC!

On Mon, 2 Mar 2020 at 08:53, evln via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
>  (A fool-writer  EV are soon discharged> drove too fast,
>   65mph is better & should have used plugshare.com )
> https://www.expressnews.com/business/columnists/tomlinson/article/electic-car-texas-austin-corpus-christi-tesla-15084123.php
> Tomlinson: Range anxiety all too real when driving electric car from Austin
> to Corpus
> Feb. 26, 2020  Chris Tomlinson
>
> [images  / Chris Tomlinson / Houston Chronicle
> https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/10/64/24/19088696/4/940x0.jpg
> An electric Porsche on display at "Fully Charged LIVE," an electric vehicle
> event in Austin, Texas
>
> https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/10/64/24/19088697/4/940x0.jpg
> LiveWire electric motorcycles on display at the Harley Davidson dealership
> in Corpus Christi, Texas
>
> https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/10/64/24/19088699/4/940x0.jpg
> A new electric vehicle from Rivian, which is producing a pick-up and a SUV,
> on display at "Full Throttle LIVE," an electric vehicle event in Austin,
> Texas
>
> https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/10/64/24/19088701/4/940x0.jpg
> Chevy Bolt charging at the [L2 (not DC)] Charging facility at the Harley
> Davidson dealership in Corpus Christi, Texas
> ]
>
> Some crazy challenges take hold of you and won’t let go, and despite the
> risks, you feel compelled to take a chance.
>
> A few weeks ago, I decided to drive my all-electric Chevy Bolt from Austin
> to Corpus Christi, where I needed to visit an archive for my next book. I
> knew I could top off the battery with a quick charge in San Antonio, but
> then came the big problem: there are no compatible charging stations between
> the Alamo City and the coast.
>
> The distance is only 143 miles, and the Bolt has an maximum range of 230
> miles, but that’s city driving under perfect conditions. When I consulted
> the official Chevrolet app, it calculated that at 75 mph, my battery would
> be -1 percent on arrival. In other words, I wouldn’t make it.
>
> I rolled the dice anyway.
>
> Under normal circumstances, I would have rented a car for a road trip, which
> is what I told people when I bought my EV. But I’d just attended “Fully
> Charged LIVE,” an electric vehicle extravaganza at the Circuit of the
> Americas racetrack in Austin.
>
> Electrify America, an EV charging network, was hosting the BBC television
> show “Fully Charged,” which reports on the electrification of
> transportation. For two days, electric vehicle nerds geeked out on the
> latest tech, from new electric bikes to the latest charging infrastructure.
>
> The expert speakers and enthusiastic audience were inspiring. I saw
> Porsche’s new all-electric Taycan, a four-door, designed to steal market
> share from Tesla. I was charmed by a 1968 Porsche 912 that Austin-based
> Moment Motors had retrofitted with an electric powertrain.
>
> The game-changers, though, were Rivian’s pick-up and SUV. These are not
> esoteric sports cars or hobbyist fantasies; they are the kind of vehicles
> Americans want to own and drive every day.
>
> Unlike the futuristic Tesla pick-up, the Rivian is something any good-ol’
> boy in Texas would be proud to drive. The grill is suitably aggressive and
> futuristic at the same time, and the cargo capacity and interior features
> rival the finest Fords and Chevys.
>
> In Africa, I drove a 1976 Range Rover, and I saw that classic designs
> reflected in Rivian’s SUV. The interior was wood and fine leather with
> plenty of leg room, and an exterior design that will turn heads in River
> Oaks and Alamo Heights.
>
> Rivian’s no-compromise vehicles are full-sized, with towing capacities of
> 11,000 pounds for the pick-up and 7,000 for the SUV. Their size provides
> plenty space for batteries capable of delivering 400 miles between charges.
>
> As I walked back to my car, I saw two dozen people lined up to test drive a
> Chevy Bolt. As I got into mine, I decided then to drive it to Corpus the
> next day.
>
> I reached San Antonio, 90 miles way, and plugged into an Electrify America
> DC Fast-charger. Fast chargers use 440 volts of direct current and can get a
> drained Bolt battery to 80 percent in two hours. A 220 volt home charger,
> using alternating current, takes twice as long.
>
> With my battery topped up after an hour-long lunch, I set out on I-37 at the
> 70-mph speed limit. Within 30 minutes, it became clear I needed to slow down
> if I wanted my battery to last.
>
> I slowed to 65 mph as other cars whizzed by me. But by taking it easy on the
> throttle, I had 10 miles to spare when I reached the only [L2 (not DC]
> charging station in Corpus, located at the Harley Davidson dealership.
>
> I plugged in, went inside, and found six all-electric Harleys lined up at
> the door, the reasons for the charging station. The owner and staff showed
> me the LiveWire’s, and as a motorcyclist, I was impressed.
>
> Two days later, I set out for the return trip to San 

Re: [EVDL] Cheapest off grid storage but can it be used to make electricity.

[Paul Compton via EV]

I recently switched providers to Octopus Energy. Besides the fact that
they have the highest customer satisfaction rating according to
'Which?', they offer some unique electricity tariffs in the UK.

At the moment I'm waiting for them to confirm that they have collected
30 days of half hourly readings from my Smart Meter, then I will be
moving onto their 'Agile' tariff which will give me half hourly
pricing. The peaks are capped at £0.35 and I think there's a low end
cap too, but I know it's below zero. Yes, I will occasionally be paid
to use electricity. I have 5.6kwh of grid tied storage, so even
without solar input, I can set my system up to grid charge when the
price is low (or free, or negative) and meet demand during the peak
period.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/P7efXiijh4Rsgq4Y6

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Re: [EVDL] early leaf mile years expectancy

[Paul Compton via EV]

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/environment/2017/05/19/no-return-to-diesel-for-all-ev-taxi-firm-with-dozen-leafs-on-its-books


On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 19:18, Bob Bath via EV  wrote:

> Loved your post, but there are only 12 bars on a LEAF, not 13. 
> I lost my first, and so far, only bar on my 2013 the first year. That was
> charging to 80%, except for an occasional equalizing 100% each month. 40k
> miles now.
>
> Sincerely,
> Bob Bath
>
> Note: any misspellings of the contents of this message are due to 54 y.o.
> vision, hyperactive spell check changing what I typed, or fat fingering—
> not cluelessness.
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > After three Leafs I have some experience. Our first Leaf was a 2012
> Lease. By 39k miles and end of lease It could barely do 50 miles. We did
> not buy that can.
> >
> > We did however find a 2013 with 2,400 miles on the odometer for $14k.
> Nissan allowed us to pay off the car with a no interest loan. We are still
> driving that car. The guessometer is actually very accurate in predicting
> actual range. Back in 2015 we would see as much as 131 miles of range. Now
> in winter we are seeing mid 80's. Still getting 13 bars. The car has 55k on
> the clock. It has been from San Francisco to San Diego three times. First
> time it took 20 hours to LA. Lots of fast charger mistakes. No problems yet
> other than reduced range. We drive using the two ball method. During warm
> months we still see one mile of range per percent of charge. But it is hard
> to keep it up when driving into the wind.
> >
> > Our third Leaf was a 2016 30 kw. Total expenditure $13,550. It is so
> much more useful that my wife Bogart's it and has run up the odometer to
> over 50 k miles even though that car was bought new a year later. It will
> make the 90 mile journey to Sacramento, Stockton, Modesto, Santa Rosa and a
> little more to Salinas sometimes. This car still shows 114 to 130 miles of
> range on a full charge. It will make it to LA in 11 hours. Stops of
> Salinas, Camp Roberts, San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara. So the bigger the
> battery the better. This car still has the original tires. If you drive
> normally you will not see these numbers on any Leaf. However I am certain
> the 40 and 60 kw Leafs will have much better range and battery life. I
> would not buy a 2011 or 2012 Leaf unless the battery was replaced or I got
> it nearly free. Looking forward I see my first broken part being the axel
> boots. Anybody think Armourall will extend their life? Lawrence Rhodes
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200111/f2c3092c/attachment.html
> >
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> >
>
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>

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Re: [EVDL] Cheap conversion?

[Paul Compton via EV]

Go and have a look at Damien Maguire's YT channel and the
openinverter.org forum, this is already being tried out.

Note that the Toyota stuff needs 550 Volt for full power.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 at 05:44, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
>
> A scrap Prius, Lexus or Highlander rear MGR may fit right under your car 
> without anything special, would just need to fab new beam mounts and a new 
> attachment to the parking brake. I got this from the DIY forum.  I heard the 
> units are super cheap.  No body knows what to do with them.  They don't break 
> so little market for them. Just a thought.  Put it in a Mazda RX7 maybe or 
> some other light car.  Lawrence Rhodes
>
>
>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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Re: [EVDL] The real speed of 250kw supercharger.

[Paul Compton via EV]

The chargers will peak at 250kW; If the SOC is low enough and the
battery temperature is suitable.

Generally that means you've entered a 250kW chargers as a destination,
so that the car will bring the battery to the optimum temperature to
accept the charge.

Otmar has posted picture online of achieving 1000mph charge rates.

https://youtu.be/bXtH-pjJcrc?t=961

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 at 08:57, Willie via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/23/19 12:19 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
> > I can do math. Sounds like my 50 KW Tesla III can charge in 10 minutes to 
> > 100%.  But really isn't the optimal vehicle one of the higher end Teslas 
> > and it's more like 80% in 15 minutes or so? What are the real times and 
> > numbers? Lawrence Rhodes
>
> A LongRange (~75kwh) 3 at a 150kw charger should charge the from low to
> about 60-70% at 120-140kw.  It slows so much above 80-90% that you don't
> want to do it.  The final few percent will be 2-4kw.  A good policy is
> to move on to the next SuperCharger on your route when the rate drops to
> ~80kw.  That is, assuming the next SuperCharger is within range.  Else,
> you just have to wait out the slower charging.
>
> I haven't used a 250kw charger.  I believe that there are still some
> 120kw chargers out there.  "Urban" SuperChargers are only about 75kw.
>
> There is a LOT of variability from SuperCharger to SuperCharger.  It is
> not unusual to find one that will only do 30-40kw even when you are not
> in conflict with another car at a pair of chargers.
>
> By "my 50 KW Tesla III", did you mean a short/medium range, ~50 kwh
> battery?  I have no experience with such.
>
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Re: [EVDL] Chrome-moly vs. Steel

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 23:47, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:

> Then why do they traditionally use chrome-moly for steel bicycle frames?

They use it for up-market frames, or as a marketing tool on cheaper
frames (ERW, non butted tube).

Bicycles are another special case. They're designed to flex, both to
provide suspension (that's why the fork blades are curved, not
straight) and to provide the right rider feel without absorbing too
much of the rider's energy input.

They don't worry nearly so much on touring bikes with wider section
tyres and shallower steering angles. I've repaired and repurposed
dozens of bicycles over the years and the majority have been ERW, with
the more exotic frames being the ones that needed cracks fixing.


> A motorcycle frame built from chrome-moly steel or mild steel would be
> _indistinguishable_ for the first few miles. They will handle
> identically because the frames would flex identically. They would weigh
> the same. Then after awhile cracks will appear in the mild steel frame,
> and awhile later it will break.

The Norton 'Featherbed' has near legendary status, but every single
road frame was made out of mild steel. They don't appear to be having
any issues with cracking despite being 60 odd years old. The race
frames were made from Manganese Alloy Steel. They used thinner wall
tubing and didn't handle quite as well as the road bikes, but the
weight reduction was felt to be worth it. The were also 'lifed' every
season because they were prone to cracking.


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Re: [EVDL] Chrome-moly vs. Steel (was: Light weight electric motorcycle. DIY)

[Paul Compton via EV]

Aircraft frames are built for high strength to weight ratios, but
vehicle frames normally target the stiffness to weight ratio.

If any part of your frame is getting close to the yield point of
ordinary mild steel, then it is, almost by definition, flexing too
much for geed handling.

Lotus, among others, built many successful race cars, even at the
Formula 1 level, from cheap ERW (electric resistance welded) tubing.

Looking for a lighter and stiffer frame than the Norton 'Featherbed',
Colin Seeley made his race frames from ERW, but with straight tubes.
When asked why he didn't use stronger Reynolds tubing, he's reported
to have said 'Nobody knows how to crash a motorcycle not quite hard
enough to bend the frame'.

Formula Ford cars at one time had a (cost control) rule that only ERW
could be used in their construction (roll hoop excepted).

It seems that at one time USA made ERW had a bad reputation for
failing at the seam and was banned by some motorsport sanctioning
bodies.

Brazing Chrome Molly can lead to brittleness due to inter granular
penetration if the metal gets too hot. That's why the Reynolds
Manganese alloys are preferred for Brazing and Bronze welding.

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 19:59, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
>
> Chrome-moly steel is about double the specific strength (ratio of
> ultimate strength divided by density) of mild steel. That's why they
> often use chrome-moly in airplanes, and never use mild steel.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength
>
> As you can see from the chart, mild steel has a specific strength of
> 71-85 kN m/kg, while low-carbon steel has a specific strength of 46 kN m/kg.
> Looking further down the chart, you can see why they use carbon fiber
> composite (785 kN m/kg) to build modern airplanes.
>
> Chrome-moly (4130) is often chosen for its ease of fabrication and its
> forgiving nature when abused. It can be welded (or brazed) without
> subsequent heat treatment, and it deforms ~25% before failure. (It
> stretches like taffy before it comes apart.) It also has a high fatigue
> resistance.
>
> Bill D.
>
> About double On 12/4/2019 7:31 AM, Paul Compton via EV wrote:
> > On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 03:27, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Using chromoly will reduce the weight.
> > Oh, is Chrome Molybdenum Steel somehow magically lighter than mild Steel?
> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] Light weight electric motorcycle. DIY

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 03:27, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:

> Using chromoly will reduce the weight.

Oh, is Chrome Molybdenum Steel somehow magically lighter than mild Steel?

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (vw-pr) 2020 Skoda Citigo e iV> vw's cheapest EV

[Paul Compton via EV]

First EV? What about the Skoda Elmo?

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 00:32, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> https://uk.motor1.com/news/383224/skoda-citigoe-iv-pricing/
> Skoda Citigo E iV electric vehicle priced from £20,455
> 20 NOVEMBER 2019  Dominik Wilde
>
> [images
> https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/EZvvB/s1/2020-skoda-citigo-e-iv.jpg
> Gallery: 2020 Skoda Citigo e iV
>
> https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/GPvvJ/s1/2020-skoda-citigo-e-iv.jpg
> ]
>
> Skoda announces pricing of its first EV
> Skoda has announced pricing details of its first all-electric car, a battery
> powered version of the Citigo supermini.
>
> The EV, dubbed the Citigo E iV, will be priced from £20,455 with the order
> books opening next month ahead of deliveries beginning early next year.
>
> The popular Citigo has been completely re-engineering for its transformation
> into an electric car, and now has a compact battery pack and efficient 61 kW
> electric motor which gives it a 170-mile range on a single charge. Despite
> the integration of the electric drivetrain, there's 250 litres of boot space
> available with the rear seats in position and 923 litres with them folded
> down. The 0-62 mph dash takes 12.5 seconds, while top speed is 81 mph.
>
> The battery can be charged to 80 percent in 4 hours 15 minutes using a 7.2kW
> AC wall box, or 12 hours 37 minutes using a lower-powered 3.6 kW
> home‑charging station. The SE L model can be charged faster using a CCS
> (Combined Charging System), achieving 80 percent of its charge in just 60
> minutes. The car can also be recharged using a standard household plug
> socket if a wall box is not available.
>
> Two trim levels will be available – SE and SE L. The SE, starting at
> £20,455, comes with climate control air conditioning, three spoke leather
> steering wheel and handbrake lever, plus Swing DAB radio and remote central
> locking.
>
> The SE L, priced from £22,815, and 16-inch alloy wheels, ambient lighting,
> comfort pack (heated front seats and rear parking sensors), and body
> coloured door mirrors and handles. The SE L model also has CCS charging
> capability that allows for rapid charging via 40kW charging stations.
>
> Both prices do not include the government's £3,500 grant for electric
> vehicles.
>
> The Skoda Citigo E iV can be linked to the Skoda Connect app which gives
> owners the ability to heck and control selected features of the car
> remotely, including battery status.
> [© motor1.com]
> ...
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=413529=skoda+citigo=0=date
>  search evdl on  skoda citigo
>
>
> https://www.carscoops.com/2019/11/2020-skoda-citigo%E1%B5%89-iv-is-vw-groups-cheapest-electric-vehicle/
> 2020 Skoda Citigo? iV Is VW Group's Cheapest Electric Vehicle
> Half a year ago, Skoda entered the EV segment for the first time with the
> Citigo? iV. Now, that model is about to go on sale in the UK, where order
> books will ...
> https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/2020-skoda-citigoe-iv-uk-1.jpg
>
>
> +
> https://www.vnews.com/Lebanon-Considers-Electric-Vehicle-Proposal-30574854
> Volkswagen subsidiary pitches electric vehicle charging stations in downtown
> Lebanon
> 11/19/2019 ... LEBANON — Downtown Lebanon could become home to four new
> electric vehicle charging stations under a proposal being considered by the
> City Council ...
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://www.evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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Re: [EVDL] EVangel-About: ?Do I really want to be a Cyberpunk?

[Paul Compton via EV]

Do US road rules not have requirements for pedestrian safety? There's
no way that design would pass European regulations.

My cynical first impression was that this prototype was based on not
spending any money on press tooling.

I've joked that this was Elon's response to rumors that Tesla was going to fold.

CAD = Cardboard Aided Design.

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 at 19:19, Ron Solberg via EV  wrote:
>
>   Quoting Lee Hart via EV :
>
> "Tesla may find a market for it; but it probably won't be the sort of
> people that buy normal pickup trucks."
>
> Calling it an "Armored Personal Vehicle", *us old folks* at some point
> might like to step up into it if we are no longer nimble enough and
> have to trade in our Model 3. We put down a $1000 deposit on our Model
> 3 and so far are not sorry.  Yes, to the cost, but we are in the a
> position similar to many folks who buy expensive pickup trucks, we
> write it off on our business.
>
> The 500 mile range battery could serve other purposes like V2G(vehicle
> to grid), or an emergency power source. I await the details that are
> sure to come.
>
> While I do not care to gamble, depending on your situation, putting
> down a refundable $100 looks like good odds in this fast changing
> world.
>
> > EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:
> >> I suspect that the typical truck buyer probably WILL want
> >> something that looks more like the traditional pickup, which as you
> >> say, hasn't really changed much in 70+ years.
> >
> > That's my guess as well. It looks more like a sports car styled to
> > look like a pickup, rather than a real truck. It reminds me of the
> > old Chevy El Camino or Ford El Ranchero (cars with a small pickup
> > bed in the back).
> >
> > Tesla may find a market for it; but it probably won't be the sort of
> > people that buy normal pickup trucks.
> >
> > In a way, it might be a missed opportunity. The automaker pickups
> > have also strayed away from the traditional "work truck" pickup, in
> > favor of luxury 4-passenger car-like vehicles that happen to have a
> > small bed in back. Most of them can't carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood,
> > either.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > --
> > ICEs have the same problem as lightbulbs. Why innovate and make
> > better ones when the current ones burn out often enough to keep
> > you in business? -- Hunter Cressall
> > --
> > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com[1]
> > ___
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> > EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
> Links:
> --
> [1] http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] MIT: Why the electric-car revolution may take a lot longer than expected

[Paul Compton via EV]

The materials in a Lead acid battery are up to 98% recyclable.

That is not same as 98% of Lead acid batteries being recycled.

On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 at 21:57, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
>
>  The ~50% recycled percentage is steady-state. Same for 80% of raw
> lead going into battery production. These percentages have not changed
> substantially for 50 years. (The percentage of raw lead going into
> battery production has actually grown to more than 85% in recent years.)
>
>  In order for lead-acid battery recycling to be 95%, there would
> have to be 25% growth in the number of batteries in service (or storage,
> or whatever.) This is a _lot_ of batteries. _*One quarter*_ of _*all*_
> lead acid batteries produced every year! Two million tons of batteries.
>
>  There is simply no way that "nearly 100%" of lead acid batteries
> are recycled. It is a good story, but if you simply look at the lead
> industries own figures, it doesn't hold water.
>
> https://www.ila-lead.org/lead-facts/lead-production--statistics
> https://www.ila-lead.org/lead-facts/lead-uses--statistics
>
>  The key is that the percentage has remained the same for many many
> years. There aren't non-polluting "reservoirs", (like hoards of used
> batteries in homes,) that are building steady for years and years at
> 25%. Folks /eventually/ do "something" with dead lead-acid batteries.
> The truth is, many get tossed in the land fill, especially the smaller
> ones, like UPS batteries, emergency light batteries, alarm batteries, etc.
>
>  Bill D.
>
> On 11/21/2019 9:26 AM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> > > More to the point, lead-acid batteries are not recycled at "nearly
> > 100%" as
> > > claimed. If you look at the numbers provided by the lead industry
> > itself, at
> > > _least_ 30% of them escape the recycling stream
> >
> > Hopefully, whoever does this sort of bean counting took into account
> > the number of batteries still in useful service, and adjusted for
> > those that are still installed in inoperable or stored equipment and
> > vehicles that will eventually return them for recycling.
> >
> > There is also a portion of lead, which includes batteries, that gets
> > shunted to other uses outside the recycling stream. Private reuse of
> > lead for ammunition, nautical ballast, etc might account for some of
> > the discrepancy. I suspect that there may also be some hoarding of
> > lead for speculative purposes, and by preppers who worry about the
> > zombie apocalypse
> >
> > With commodity prices being what they are, and active gathering and
> > recycling of scrap, including non-ferrous metals, by a wide selection
> > of citizenry, I can't see 30% of batteries being dumped in rivers, etc.
> >
> > Home Power magazine did a couple of in-depth, first-person articles on
> > lead battery recycling some years back. While not absolutely
> > definitive, it represents some independent research on the subject. If
> > anyone is interested, I can rip and post some PDF's or dig up links to
> > the articles on the HP web site.
> > ___
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] watts per mile ev motorcycle vs prius

[Paul Compton via EV]

An small motorcycle and rider has roughly the same drag at 60mpg as a small car.

On Wed, 13 Nov 2019 at 05:02, evtlfp20 via EV  wrote:
>
>
> I seen add on battery packs for cars and am surprised  how small they
> are,  so that must mean watts per mile is way lower.
>
> My scooter uses 40 amps  at 72 volt s and 40 mph . so whats my watts per
> mile ?
>
> verses like a leaf at 40 mph ?
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: FrogE> diy Bugeye Sprite EV, competing w/ Tesla= a bridge 2far

[Paul Compton via EV]

Take one Reva G-Wiz...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GBFg-M1wo0


Virus-free. www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 03:22, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> https://www.automobilemag.com/news/frog-e-electric-bugeye-sprite-ev-conversion-drive-review/
> Enter the FrogE: The Electric Bugeye Sprite
> Oct 7, 2019  Jamie Kitman
>
> [images
> https://www.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2019/10/The-Electric-Bugeye-Sprite-09.jpg
>
> https://www.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2019/10/The-Electric-Bugeye-Sprite-01.jpg
>
> http://st.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2019/10/The-Electric-Bugeye-Sprite-13.jpg
>  front pack
>
> https://www.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2019/10/The-Electric-Bugeye-Sprite-14.jpg
>  j1772
> ]
>
> Want an eensy fully electric classic car? The Bugeye Guy is your man.
>
> In the early days of the automobile, an individual garagiste might endeavor
> to build his own version of this newfangled machine that sounded like the
> future. Romantic, yes. But before too long, such humble operations were
> uniformly steamrollered by the arrival to the game of organized capital and
> with it the cost and vicissitudes of automation.
>
> We're kind of in that place again, except it's different. A hundred and
> twenty years after the backyard blacksmiths and early Henry Ford-type
> operations embraced internal combustion as the new medium, a world of
> electric carmakers has arisen where inspired individuals can once again try
> their hand.
>
> Make no mistake, competing at the level of today's big dogs, including
> Tesla, remains a bridge too far. Way too far, in fact, farther away than
> Neptune (the planet not the New Jersey beach town).
>
> But small money dreamers today see potential in this revitalized and still
> immature field. With quality electric motors available off the shelf and the
> electric car's comparative simplicity, many things become possible,
> especially if your idea is to start with an existing gasoline-powered car
> that you want to make electric. In that sense, it's like 1898 all over
> again. Or like the rise of speed and custom shops in the 1950s and '60s.
>
> Either way, we've driven and been delighted by such battery-powered mashups
> of old and new before—for instance, the Jaguar E-Type Zero, an electric
> conversion of the classic Jaguar roadster prepared by Jaguar Land Rover and
> first showcased as a wedding car for those swinging Windsors, Harry and
> Megan, who drove it off into the sunset after their royal wedding. A
> conversion now available through the company's Reborn program, it benefited
> obviously from the involvement of a modern carmaker. But like many homespun
> efforts before it, it proved the concept.
>
> Take an old car people like, electrify it, and you wind up with something
> people still like, a machine that is exactly as handsome as the car it
> repopulates with batteries and electric motor(s), but one that's less
> obstreperous and cranky to operate, not to mention cleaner, cheaper to
> maintain, and quite possibly faster. Several companies on the West Coast
> will convert your air-cooled VW or Porsche to electric operation and some
> will convert anything. From what we understand, people who've popped for
> them are pretty happy.
>
> So when we heard Branford, Connecticut's Bugeye guy, David Silberkleit, was
> launching an all-electric Sprite, based on the baby Austin-Healy built
> between 1958 and 1961, we were more than a little intrigued. With new,
> larger premises across the street from his old shop, the Bugeye Guy has been
> steadily expanding his operation to the point where he says he has now sold
> a total of 256 of the tiny, four-cylinder BMC cuties, mostly reconditioned
> under his own roof, making his claim to be the largest individual seller of
> Bugeyes in history more difficult to doubt than ever.
>
> So, David, why an electric Bugeye? "Well, you hear a lot from wives: 'I love
> the car, but it stinks of fuel all the time.' (With cars that aren't used)
> routinely you get leaking fuel-sender gaskets. Even without working on the
> cars all day because I'm at my desk, I still smell like fuel." Yet gnarly
> odors are only part of it, Silberkleit explains. Carburetion and electrical
> issues confound many owners, too, especially when cars sit unused for long
> periods.
>
> "After being in this business for 12 years and having these cars come to us
> with those kinds of chronic issues that are in effect built-in, we have
> learned and worked very, very hard to try to make them as drivable and
> user-friendly as possible. And it is a very, very difficult task no matter
> how many times you do it. The key (for the electric enterprise) is to try to
> produce a reliable drivable platform so that 

Re: [EVDL] Bosch pyroswitches/pyrofuses> 1 bash& EV's wiring is shot

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 at 15:57, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:

> Am I missing something?  Isn't this what main contactors are for?

A short circuit of the main battery bus during an impact could weld
contactors, particularly as there may be contact bounce due to the
impact.

A fuse might not blow, because the sustained fault current isn't high enough.

A one time operable disconnect sounds like a good idea. Cutting cables
doesn't, but then that is probably just bad reporting of the actual
process.

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[EVDL] Lead alkaline battery

[Paul Compton via EV]

Lots of hype, very few numbers...

https://www.zelectricvehicle.com/S-Series?fbclid=IwAR1mYREgkWhFwMbTgwYC3yR1K21tSNa_1mmz90Z-HjQCdhr_d8dI72wqtNc

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Re: [EVDL] EV undercoating options?

[Paul Compton via EV]

I've found Lanoguard to be an effective corrosion inhibitor and I
believe they do use it as a vehicle underseal in New Zealand.

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 at 19:09, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:
>
> I’ve got to think that there are better solutions that don’t require 
> contaminating waterways or groundwater.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Sep 12, 2019, at 10:14 AM, Michael Mike via EV  wrote:
> >
> > It is actually more than oil. There are really good rust inhibitors in the 
> > chemistry. The fluid goes on the consistency of gear oil and congeals in 24 
> > hours. It is always ‘wet’. Here in NE a coating/respray runs $175. You can 
> > by the product in line and apply it yourself. One gallon is enough to coat 
> > 2 full size trucks.
> >
> > I will tell you in my younger days I used 50/50 mix of used gear and engine 
> > oil. A word of caution as this is flammable if you use it on an ICE. This 
> > is much cheaper, has to be reapplied every 6 mos, and smells all the time. 
> > Fluid film smells for 24 hours during the cure period. The oil mix above 
> > kept my dads 1974 C10 from rusting for over 18 years...a huge 
> > accomplishment in the northeast.
> >
> > Fluid film is as good or better.
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >>> On Sep 12, 2019, at 12:39 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 12 Sep 2019 at 8:41, Michael Mike via EV wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I use fluid film on all my vehicles.
> >>
> >> Is that a 20 dollar name for oil spray, by any chance?
> >>
> >> I used to have my ICEVs oil sprayed 40+ years ago. I wouldn't do it today,
> >> nor would I do it to an EV.  Old cars tended to have more steel and less
> >> plastic.  Today's vehicles, especially EVs (for weight saving)  have many
> >> more petroleum-based parts.
> >>
> >> Also, bak then I didn't think much about the oil that dripped from the cars
> >> after spraying -- so many cars leaked fluids anyway -- but I'd be more
> >> concerned now.
> >>
> >> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> >> EVDL Administrator
> >>
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> >> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> >> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
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> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] 199x production: Ford Ranger EV

[Paul Compton via EV]

Benjamin Nelson has one

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmHss3DBZUinic8TbuaNqRsyZnxhM0svj

On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 at 19:26, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
>
> On 11 Sep 2019 at 20:08, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
> > I read an article a while back that Toyota and Tesla were going to team up 
> > and
> > resurrect the RAV4 EV with Tesla batteries. Maybe you could find some info 
> > on
> > that.
>
> Is this a new effort, or are you thinking of the brief partnership between
> Toyota and Tesla a few years ago?  They sold a second generation RAV4-EV
> from 2012 to 2014.  It was complete Tesla batteries and drivetrains
> installed in RAV4s.
>
> This is discussed a little in the RAV4-EV Wikipedia article.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
>
> Also, going back to the original subject, there were two production Ranger
> EVs.  The first one was done by a "Ford qualified upfitter" on gliders
> supplied by Ford.  I think that was the one that used the Siemens drive, but
> I'm not sure any more; it's been a while and I didn't pay that much
> attention.  :-(
>
> The second one, years later, was an in-house Ford project.
>
> At least one of these used oddball 8 volt lead batteries.  IIRC, they were
> custom designed by East Penn.  Olaf Bleck bought a bunch of them surplus,
> and won the 2001 and 2002 Tours de Sol by using them in a range extending
> trailer
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] li ion battery in cold weather

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Tue, 10 Sep 2019 at 15:52, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:

> And if it's correct, then the cell's internal resistance must come into
> play. Is it simply not significant enough to warm up the cell ?

It can be enough to warm the cell. The original Thundersky cells had
quite high internal resistance anyway and Cedric Lynch discovered in
his machine, that it was better to discharge the cells quite hard
initially and generate some heat, than it was to baby them at low
temperatures.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Rivian e-truck Testing.ar @tierra-del-fuego (v)

[Paul Compton via EV]

https://lonerider-motorcycle.com/blogs/loneriderblog/ewan-mcgregor-and-charley-boormans-long-way-up-will-be-on-electric-motorcycles?fbclid=IwAR2G19NObIvyzziHAnGmQOn25Fi8bowAjHECTVHIOuZxkCrFMmXwclXHx-Y

On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 at 21:07, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/someone-caught-the-rivian-r1t-testing-in-argentinahere-s-your-first-look-ar186435.html
> Someone Caught The Rivian R1T Testing In Argentina -
> Here's Your First Look!
> September 2, 2019  Sidd Dhimaan
>
> [images
> https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r-3_800x0w.jpg
>
> https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r_800x0w.jpg
>
> https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r-2-2_800x0w.jpg
>
> https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201909/someone-caught-the-r-3_800x0w.jpg
>
> https://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201811/the-2020-rivian-r1t--33_800x0w.jpg
>
>
> share
> https://twitter.com/Autoblogcomar/status/1167755985877950464
> Autoblog Argentina ??  @Autoblogcomar
> Dos pick-ups Rivian RT1 (100% eléctricas) llegaron a Ushuaia para poner en
> marcha una travesía por toda América.
> Nota, fotos y videos acá  (Two Rivian RT1 pick-ups (100% electric) arrived
> in Ushuaia to launch a crossing throughout America. Note, photos and videos
> here):
> https://autoblog.com.ar/2019/08/31/rivian-rt1-y-harley-davidson-livewire-en-ushuaia-dos-pick-ups-y-cuatro-motos-haran-una-travesia-electrica-por-toda-america/
> …@Rivian
> Embedded video
> 6:08 AM - Aug 31, 2019
> ]
>
> We are excited to see the truck in the real world, but a number of minor
> changes have dampened our spirits somehow
>
> We’ve seen the Rivian R1T during various events and we are mighty impressed
> with what RJ Scaringe, the CEO, has managed to come up for it. Rivian has
> released trailers and pictures of the pickup truck and it sure looks great.
> However, it was never really spied or seen on the roads to get an idea of
> what it looks like in real-world conditions; after all, things can be
> deceiving when viewed under shiny lights. But the truck was recently spotted
> testing in Argentina and we have to say, it does not disappoint.
>
> Capacity
>
> Is This The Same Rivian Truck We Saw Before?
>
> A pair of Rivian R1T pickup trucks were spotted in Tierra del Fuego, an
> island chain shared by Chile and Argentina. It is known for its glaciers,
> snowy mountains, and wind-sculpted trees. The fact that the trucks were seen
> here shows how extensively and vigorously Rivian is testing the pickup
> truck. The photos were uploaded on Rivianforums.com and enthusiasts were
> quick to note down the differences this potential pre-production version has
> in comparison to the concept version we’ve seen previously. First, let’s
> talk about the exterior. This is the first time the R1T wears the badges and
> logos on the body. It’s also the first time the truck is seen in white
> shade. Tow hooks can be seen on the front bumper, where the concept version
> had glossy black panels, whilst the rear bumper is seen with changes made to
> the shape and diffusers.
>
> The quarter windows on the rear doors did not make its way here from the
> concept version, and neither did the silver metal hooks on the rear bumper.
>
> Another big change is the location of the charger port that has been moved
> from the passenger side to the driver’s side at the front. The door handles
> look slightly different whereas the wing mirrors are a tad bit larger than
> what we have seen previously. This R1T, just like the concept version, rides
> on Pirelli Scorpion all-terrain tires, and the front fenders come with
> orange reflectors on them. The back of the truck is seen with a thicker
> spoiler at the edge along with two high-mounted brake lights and two slots
> to channel air down the backlight. The R1T concept showcased an exciting
> feature - two fold-down steps under the rear bumper that would enable easy
> access to the bed with the tailgate up. But, as it turns out, even those are
> missing here. Looks like the R1T has lost out on a lot of cool features.
>
> I Hope It’s Not Some Cost-Cutting Exercise
>
> On the inside, the steering wheel has lost all its charm. The concept’s
> steering wheel came with two scroll wheels and a square center design, and
> it represented a very minimalist design. However, Rivian seems to have
> replaced it with a full black unit that comes with a round center and
> numerous spoke controls, so it looks like it’s borrowed from a regular
> sedan.
>
> To make things worse, carbon fiber inserts between the concept wheels'
> spokes have also been eliminated.
>
> If it’s of any consolation, the interior shows off the Black Mountain color
> scheme in black and gray. This theme will be offered along with the other
> two interior themes - Forrest Edge and Lunar Rock.
>
> What We Know About The Truck Until Now
>
> Speaking of the truck, Rivian is marketing it as an off-road, 

Re: [EVDL] E-Motorcycle battery source

[Paul Compton via EV]

"I would prefer some form of Lithium chemistry battery, with somewhere
between 20 and 40 kWh capacity."

You'd "prefer" a Lithium chemistry?

Nothing else currently available is going to give you a battery of
that capacity that will fit on a 2 wheeled vehicle.

That's a very large capacity battery. Even at 20kWh pretty much
cutting edge energy density for a conventional motorcycle. What would
your size and weight restrictions be?

On Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 02:41, Matthew Pitts via EV  wrote:
>
> Good evening (or morning, depending on where you are),
>
> I'm looking for a source for 48v batteries for an E-Motorcycle project I'm 
> going to work on this winter. I would prefer some form of Lithium chemistry 
> battery, with somewhere between 20 and 40 kWh capacity. Any suggestions?
>
> Matthew Pitts
>
>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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>


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Re: [EVDL] How to stop/slow down lead/acid battery terminal corrosion

[Paul Compton via EV]

I use Lanoguard as a corrosion inhibitor. It's been protecting bare
steel that's exposed to the weather.

On Sun, 1 Sep 2019 at 04:59, Roger Daisley via EV  wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a favorite solution to terminal corrosion in lead/acid
> battery packs? I see a battery terminal spray at O'Reilly Auto parts ...
> junk or effective?
> /roger
>
>
>
>
>
> WORLDWIDE
>
>Roger Daisley
>RJR TRACTOR LLC
>  142 Hatley Rd
>   Pullman, WA 99163
>(877) 333-8811
> www.RJRTRACTOR.com
>
> Hours:
> Mon - Sat; 8:00am - 8:00pm
> Sun; 1:00pm - 3:00pm
> Pacific Time (GMT-8)
> ~~~
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV  On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:54 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 
> Cc: EVDL Administrator 
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Gone in 30-Seconds> Tesla-S hacked, then stolen
>
> On 28 Aug 2019 at 16:10, paul dove via EV wrote:
>
> > Still looks faked to me! It was found wrecked
>
> I've seen some obviously staged "security camera" clips, and this one
> doesn't necessarily look that way to me, but I'm certainly not an expert.
>
> I have to say, though, that going to that much trouble to steal a car for
> joyriding does seem a bit over the top.  You'd think they'd have heisted it
> for Midnight Auto Supply Inc, to get some profit out of it.  Maybe they got
> a little over-enthusiastic with the pedal on the right on their way to the
> chop shop.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information:
> http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  To
> send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage
> http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Charging adapter for J1772?

[Paul Compton via EV]

In theory, you can have a pair of EVSE outlets sharing the same feed,
so each one can supply 3Kw, but if both are in use then that capacity
has to be shared.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 at 23:01, John Lussmyer via EV  wrote:
>
> On Fri Aug 30 14:06:19 PDT 2019 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
> >Well, a little quick Googling found a J1772 Adapter Box 
> >(http://www.tucsonev.com/) -- at
> >$150 I'm sorely tempted!  Anybody have experience with this or any other 
> >J1772 adapter?
>
> The one issue I have with those is that it doesn't prevent your charger from 
> trying to draw MORE current than the EVSE allows.
> As long as you have a 3.3KW (or less) charger, it will likely be fine - 
> Unless plugged into a 120V 15A outlet where the EVSE is telling your charger 
> to limit itself to 12A (about 1500W).  In which case you need a REALLY wimpy 
> charger.
>
>
> --
>
> Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
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Re: [EVDL] Charging adapter for J1772?

[Paul Compton via EV]

I'm currently working on a Tuktuk conversion. It's basically a repeat
of one built by Saietta, but with my standards of packaging, neatness
and extra safety.

We're using an AVC2 module;
http://modularevpower.com/Active_Vehicle_Side_Control_development.htm

They're mostly only sold via ebay and we had to ask for a refund after
we got no response from the seller. They are most likely an individual
and may for instance have had a family emergency, but it was somewhat
inconvenient. Happily, I spotted that EV West stock them and we were
able to get one that way.

Ultimately, I'm going to have to design my own as shipping and import
duties make it quite expensive.

On Fri, 30 Aug 2019 at 22:06, Tom Hudson via EV  wrote:
>
> While driving home today I passed a Whole Foods store and noticed a couple of 
> EV chargers
> outside, and it got me thinking... What would it take to get my E-10 pickup 
> set up to
> charge using a J1772 port?
>
> Well, a little quick Googling found a J1772 Adapter Box 
> (http://www.tucsonev.com/) -- at
> $150 I'm sorely tempted!  Anybody have experience with this or any other 
> J1772 adapter?
>
> My charger is a 240VAC Brusa NLG5 -- seems like this would let me cavort 
> around a little
> more freely in the truck...
>
> Thoughts?  Suggestions?
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
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Re: [EVDL] Driving A Tesla Results In More CO2 Than A Mercedes Diesel Car, Study Finds

[Paul Compton via EV]

It's not an argument against EVs, it's an argument against ageing coal
fired power stations!

On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 15:47, David Delman via EV  wrote:
>
> Have we discussed this article yet?
>
> https://dailycaller.com/2019/04/24/tesla-carbon-dioxide-mercedes/
>
> Thank you,
>
> David Delman
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 19:25, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:


> If memory serves, Lynch and some friends formed Lemco to manufacture the
> motors in (I think) the 1990s.  I got the impression that they were nearly
> hand-built in the early years.

They've always essentially been hand built.

Cedric fell out with the Lynch Motor Company (Lynch Motors / LMC),
with whom he was only even an employee.
They'd make exaggerated claims about the performance of the motor,
like peak power ratings that were only available for a few seconds.

That led to the formation of Lemco, who were later bought by their
biggest customer, ASMO karts. Again Cedric was only an employee and
his face didn't fit well with the new management. He won an industrial
tribunal for 'constructive dismissal' and the parent company put the
motor department into receivership in order to avoid paying him the
compensation, buying back the business from the receiver soon after.

> In the early 2000s Cedric Lynch was connected to (or perhaps co-founded?) 
> Agni Motors.

AGNI was set up by Cedric's oldest friend, Arvind Rabaddia, with most
of the production being done in India, where Arvind has family
connections. AGNI of course won the inaugural EV race at the Isle of
Mann TT. Duke video has a DVD that's well worth watching;
https://www.dukevideo.com/prd1773/Charge-DVD


> Agni reportedly merged with another company to become Saietta Group.

AGNI have indeed merged with Saietta and Arvind and Cedric currently
work there. Last year I was asked to visit them on Cedric's
recommendation and was offered some contract work. I can't say much as
I'm bound by a non disclosure agreement. I never took up the offerof
work. I wouldn't have been able to cope with the daily commute as I
was still recovering from a pretty serious motorcycle crash (
https://youtu.be/Fn2DZrfncT0 ) and I don't think they would have paid
a sensible daily rate.

> Saietta also manufacture e-motorcycles.

I think they build a total of three examples of that hunch fronted
£45,000 monstrosity, plus another 'race' bike. They still keep
displaying the increasingly decrepit bikes at Industry events like
CENEX LCV.

> According to a note at the link Paul posted, Lynch has tried to get Saietta
> to commercialize his hyper-efficient EV, but they've shown zero interest.

Part of the deal with Cedric joining Saietta was that they'd do so,
but it won't happen. The company follows a familiar pattern of
obtaining grant money, seend funding and venture capital without
really producing much. They spent something like £1.4million
developing a controller for Cedric's motor. It has a CAN bus interface
that can only be used to change parameters and not to interface it to,
for example, a BMS. They're now dropping manufacture of the brushed
motor and already do not supply replacement brushes. They have a
brushless motor in the same form factor, but I'm not sure just how
close it is to reality.


-- 
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www.morini-mania.co.uk
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Re: [EVDL] 3whl diy EV.uk> plastic-shelled, balsa-wood, duct-tape -signed

[Paul Compton via EV]

This is of course, Cedric Lynch's machine. It's been on the road, with
one major rebuild due to an accident, since the early 1990s.

This is 'Lynch' as in the eponymous motor. The prototype motors were
built in the garden shed belonging to Cedric's parents and initially,
lacking access to 'magnetic steel' the laminations were made of metal
recovered from tin cans. The design of the motor was simply based on
the shapes that could be cut with simple hand tools.

When I first met Cedric and encountered this machine, it was running a
single 165Ah 12v semi deep-cycle battery. The controller was just a
two step system with a starting resistor, with most of the speed
control being done with a Derailleur type gearing system. Another
clever Cedric design, this used two gear 'blocks', with the front one
facing the opposite way to the rear. The chain was stepped across both
blocks at the same time, keeping the chain run straight and at nearly
the same tension. This allowed downshifting to achieve regen braking
and in this form, Cedric had achieved a real world journey of around
120 miles, albeit at a low average speed of under 25mph.

The information from the BVS at that time, was that electronic motor
control had poor efficiency and that might have been true of the SCR
controllers available used at the time (although you've always got to
watch out for a system with apparently poor PEAK efficiency, actually
having better AVERAGE efficiency under the operating conditions). I
encouraged Cedric to go to a much higher voltage and to adopt a modern
high frequency MOSFET controller. He did so, first I think going to 36
and the 48 Volt. I recall him using Optima Yellowtops and also Exide
Orbitals, but changed to Thundersky Lithium cells when these became
available. With a nominal 100Ah at 48 Volt, Cedric could now make the
journey between the Lynch Motor Company premises in Honiton, Devon and
his home in Potter's Bar, in Hertfordshire. That's a trip of around
150 miles and Cedric could average nearly 50mph. A 60 volt pack, made
up from old cells that now have excessive internal resistance, is
charged by a couple of PV panels on Cedric's shed roof and the vehicle
charged from them by simply paralleling the two packs.

As far as I know, there is no Balsa wood used in it's construction. It
has a lightweight steel tube frame and uses a combination of light
motorcycle and mountain bicycle components in the wheels. The front
suspension is a variation of a virtual steering axis system, similar
to that used on the OEC Duplex of the 1930's.

There are quite a few pictures of this machine on
http://bikeweb.com/image/tid/57

On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 00:46, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/20/police-stop-homemade-car-made-balsa-wood-duct-tape-10599191/
> Police stop homemade car made out of balsa wood and duct tape
> 20 Aug 2019  Basit Mahmood
>
> [images  / Anglia Press Agency
> https://i2.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426911-e1566288148535.jpg
> The three wheeler was made out of duct tape and balsa wood
>
> https://i1.wp.com/metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/PRI_808426901.jpg
> Bedfordshire Police say the vehicle didn’t cause an obstruction to other
> road users
> ]
>
> [image]  The officer who pulled the strange vehicle over admitted he still
> didn’t know what it was
>
> Traffic cops were left stunned after they had to pullover a vehicle that
> resembled a small boat on Britain’s busiest motorway.
>
> Made out of balsa wood and duct tape, officers described the electric
> vehicle as the most ‘unusual’ they’ve had to stop in 26 years.
>
> The three wheeler was spotted on the M25 in Bedfordshire on Sunday.
>
> The officer who pulled the vehicle over tweeted: ‘All checked and in order,
> although still not convinced I know what it is.’
>
> Social media users were quick to offer their own explanations about what
> they thought the vehicle was, from a modified motorcycle to a German made
> vehicle.
>
> Another added that it looked like a ‘Co-Op home shopping delivery vehicle’,
> while others questioned how it could be considered safe.
>
> Bedfordshire police were able to confirm that the vehicle was approved and
> registered by the DVLA, and is in fact a motorbike with a plastic shell
> built around it.
>
> Sergeant Stephen Andrews, from the Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and
> Hertfordshire Roads Policing Unit, told Metro.co.uk: ‘This is certainly not
> a vehicle that is seen very often on our roads, but after road side
> inspection we couldn’t find anything that would prevent the rider to
> continue his journey.
>
> ‘The vehicle was keeping up with other traffic and didn’t cause any
> obstruction to other road users.
>
> ‘The owner made sure that he fulfilled all the safety regulation as well as
> keeping the insurance, MOT and tax in date.’
> [© metro.co.uk]
>
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/auto/police-bizarre-electric-vehicle-duck-tape
> Police pull over bizarre electric vehicle made 

Re: [EVDL] Hyundai releases solar roof vehicle.

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 at 05:33, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:

> My son just told me his commute is 2 miles each way.  ANd he agreed to take
> one of my ev's so that at least it is on the road and being seen rather
> than just rotting away in my driveway.  He lives in an apt and has no place
> to plug in.  So 2 miles a day from the sun is well worth it.  Bob

That's not a commute.

That's a walk.

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Re: [EVDL] V2H

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 at 17:01, Ing. Marco Gaxiola via EV
 wrote:

> The electronic design was made to work worldwide, 3 or 2 phase,

Split-single phase isn't two phase.


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Re: [EVDL] Range+grip: Leaf EV tires that increase range

[Paul Compton via EV]

Leaf is FWD, I3 is RWD.

On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 at 17:16, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
>
> Narrower tires is exactly what I am looking for.  If the i3 which weighs the 
> same as the Leaf can get away with two sets of smaller tires I would like to 
> explore that.  I run my tires at full pressure at all times. 40psi.  I have 
> been told that the i3 uses two sets of tires. 155 in front and 175 in the 
> rear.  The Leaf is 205.  The i3 runs the wider tires in the rear at 44psi.  
> The front less.  Nissan recommends somewhere in the 30's.  I suspect the i3 
> is more efficient than the Leaf partly because of the tire choices.  This is 
> the easiest course to try.  Since the i3 standard is two different sizes and 
> pressures a compromise on the Leaf might be 165 all the way around with full 
> pressure.  Or the 175 all around.  I am sure this would be just fine.  Yes 
> not as much traction but I am not running the Indy 500.  As long as the total 
> weight limit of the tires is at or above the manufacturers recommended gross 
> weight you should be safe. Here is a green car reports on the BMW tire 
> choice. 
 
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1083080_bmw-i3s-tall-skinny-tires-to-boost-efficiency-and-cut-noise
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Before Tesla was the tzero> an Alpha EV (v)

[Paul Compton via EV]

AeroVironment Impact, not GM EV1.

On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 at 04:04, paul dove via EV  wrote:
>
> Actually, the GM EV1 was first and Alan Cocconi designed it as well. He did 
> it all in his garage. After the prototype AC Delco took over for the 
> production version.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:25 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> >
> > Alan Cocconi
>
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Re: [EVDL] EPRI TVA VW electric bus

[Paul Compton via EV]

The Lucas Bedford vans used a sepex motor. Armature control was via an
SCR, with the field driven via a bipolar transistor circuit. Battery
voltage was 216v nominal of 3KQ11 tubular plate lead acid. It was
usually the field controller that


The first version of the Reva G-Wiz is a sepex motor too.

On Sun, 26 May 2019 at 18:46, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
> Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote:
> > What we seem to have deduced is that the controller and motor are a
> > matched pair. It seems without doubt that the controller manages the
> > voltage delivered to both the armature and the fields, otherwise the
> > "reverse switch" wouldn't be workable.
>
> Yes, that sounds likely.
>
> > I'd image that the sequence would be something like:
> >
> > 1) accelerator released: controller ready, no field or armature
> > 2) accelerator depressed: full field, armature current limited, probably
> > ramping up.
> > 3) accelerator depressed further, full armature current, full field.
> > This would occur at what I'm calling "idle" speed.
> > 4) at some point, pressing the accelerator further results in the
> > beginning of field weakening while maintaining full armature.
> > 5) release accelerator partially: full armature current, restore field
> > current to a greater level. Regenerative braking proportional to pedal
> > position.
> > 6) completely release accelerator: Well, this is a bit of conjecture.
> > Dropping the armature at any point during deceleration would result in
> > the regenerative braking going away all at once, which might be
> > dangerous if the driver wasn't expecting it, so I'd say that the
> > controller maintains the armature current until the vehicle has slowed
> > to the point where regen is weak or nil, probably the "idle" speed, then
> > it ramps down or cuts the armature current.
>
> That's a good guess. Though, a sepex controller is capable of very
> sophisticated motion control. You don't see sepex in fork lifts very
> often; but you do find them in more sophisticated EVs, and applications
> like cranes and elevators, where the operator wants precise control of
> position, torque, and speed.
>
> My old sepex controller was very crude; but it worked! :-) The armature
> had 4 steps; off, 36v with series resistor, 36v direct, 72v direct. The
> field had a big rheostat in series to the pack (36v or 72v).
>
> When the accelerator pedal was released, the pack was switched to 36v.
> The field rheostat was 0 ohms, so full 36v field. As you pressed the
> pedal, cam switches gave the armature 36v with resistor, then 36v
> without resistor. Above that, the rheostat began increasing resistance
> to weaken the field and speed up the motor. The field got to minimum
> resistance near full throttle. At full throttle, a cam switched the pack
> from 36v to 72v to get "full warp speed".
>
> A characteristic of this setup is that it tried to be a constant-speed
> drive. If I held the pedal in one position, the car tended to go at the
> same speed, drawing a lot more power uphill, and doing regen down hill.
> I didn't want to suddenly push the pedal to a new position, because the
> motor would "fight like hell" to get to the new speed as quick as it
> could. The only thing preventing me from breaking drive shafts or
> getting my teeth planted in the steering wheel was that it was a
> relatively small motor (70 lbs; rated 30v 500a) and a heavy vehicle (a
> 1974 Datsun pickup with a dozen golf cart batteries).
>
> > If, like Lee suggests, it might be a low voltage field, then the
> > controller might have a buck/boost function for the field, which would
> > complicate our armchair diagnosis.
>
> My guess is that they wound the field for some fraction of pack voltage,
> so they didn't need a buck/boost controller. They could get (say) 4x
> field by applying 120v to a 30v field winding.
>
> Your controller just has to be aware of how *long* it can over-voltage
> the field before heating becomes a problem. The field has a lot of mass;
> it can stand large over-voltages for many minutes, and there is usually
> a blower that runs all the time for cooling it.
>
> > I do remember when I was researching the Siemens 1GV series motors last
> > year during my lithium conversion, I ran across some documentation that
> > seemed to show some series field windings along with the shunt/sepex
> > field. The compound field arrangement might be the key to having
> > stall/low RPM torque available so the motor doesn't need to idle.
>
> Yes. The most sophisticated applications for big DC motors are normally
> compound (multiple series and shunt field windings). You can get just
> about any imaginable characteristic just by careful choice of which
> windings are powered. There are also interpoles, which add even more
> possibilities. But that's a whole 'nother topic.
>
> > Thinking about it, it's entirely possible that the SCT developers went
> > with the full-armature/idling motor both because they didn't want to
> > have to build controllers 

Re: [EVDL] Irish company strikes 40m deal to reproduce an electric E-Type Jaguar

[Paul Compton via EV]

Have you looked at the cost of a 100% rebuilt and upgraded E type in
the first place? The electric version isn't much more expensive.
They're going to effectively be NEW cars, completely hand built.

The E type was never a sports car. Aimed largely at the US market, it
was a soft, soggy Grand Tourer. That's why these re-worked cars exist
in the first place, to turn them into performance sports cars.

On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 20:06, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
>
> I don't get it.  I thought the e-type conversions were over priced at half a 
> million. 
> https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/irish-electrifi-signs-40m-deal-to-build-electric-jaguar-e-types-1.3898795
>   Now the price is $850,000.00. Did I get a decimal point wrong?  I have seen 
> examples of this car from 20k to 100k and some pretty impressive ones at 50 
> to 70k.  A quick trip to EV West if you don't want to do it yourself and for 
> well under $100,000.00 you have a classic EV.  Maybe there is some exclusive 
> club that you gain membership to if you have the nearly million dollar car.  
> Lawrence Rhodes
> https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/jaguar/e-type/2193682.html
>
>
>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Time to build a lithium battery from 18650 or 26xxx

[Paul Compton via EV]

Check out Jehu Garcia on YT. He often organises bulk buys of cells.

On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 15:38, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
>
> On 15 May 2019 at 8:12, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote:
>
> > New and pre owned cells. Not sure I would trust pre owned.
>
> You may not be sure, but I'm positive I wouldn't.  You don't know where
> those cells have been.
>
> These days, both Ebay and Amazon are so overrun with garbage and counterfeit
> products that they're getting close to useless.  You can't even trust name
> brands any more if you're buying from one of those operations.
>
> A lot (maybe most) of the amazingly cheap lithium batteries you see on Ebay
> are made from salvaged laptop battery cells.  As you might guess, they're
> close to junk when they're sold, and and generally beyond junk in a few
> months.
>
> As I always say, you don't always get what you pay for, but you very seldom
> get what you don't pay for.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf Motor

[Paul Compton via EV]

An involute is a type of curve and is one of the forms used for gear teeth.

Involute splines tend to use a larger pressure angle than gears, 30
degrees rather than 20.

http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Keyways/Splines_Inv.html

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 14:36, Matthew Quitter via EV  wrote:
>
> Hey EVDL,
>
> I’m trying to use a Nissan Leaf motor in a conversion and have been told the 
> Leaf motor output shaft uses an ‘involuted spline’ and it’s to a specific 
> standard.
>
> Does anyone happen to know the involuted spline standard that Nissan uses for 
> the output shaft?
>
> Many thanks,
> Matthew
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Re: [EVDL] plusing charger controller / no bms

[Paul Compton via EV]

Any charger has internal sensing of its output voltage. This is nearly
always in the form of a resistor divider network.

If you place an additional resistor in parallel with one of the
sensing resistors, you can influence the voltage that the charger
'sees'. Raise the apparent voltage high enough and the charger will
reduce its current output to practically zero.

If the additional resistor is in the form of an opto-isolator, or
opto-isolator+resistor then you now have externaal control that can
connect to a BMS.

This is exacty what Cedric Lynch did on his ultra efficient enclosed
feet forward motorcycle. The Zivan NG3 was hacked and interfaced to
his cell protection boards. Each board could shunt a small amount of
current, but if the voltage across the shunt resistor was high enough,
it would turn on an opto-isolator and limit the output of the charger.

On Fri, 22 Mar 2019 at 06:41, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>
> ken via EV wrote:
> >> My charger is set to be the right voltage but the old cells being 22 in
> >> series string they need to equalized out at the top/end of the charge.
> >> this requires some battery baby sitting,
> >>
> >> if your cells are staying very well balanced then your voltage cut off
> >> method/gadjet may be good.
> >>
> >> your ebay gadget coud also be be good for those wanting to do a lower
> >> state of  charge, like turn the voltage down   5 volts for a 10% lower top
> >> charge.
> >>
> >> I have 2 ev scooters with  22 and 24 lfp cells.
>
> This is a harder problem than you might think. Mistakes can lead to
> expensive failures, and even fires! I have several concerns in this
> discussion:
>
> - Lack of knowledge about the cells being charged:
> - Don't know their actual state of balance.
> - Don't know the right voltage to charge them to.
>
> - Lack of information on exactly what the charger is doing:
> - What voltage and current does it actually charge to?
> - What exactly makes it decide the battery is full?
> - And, does it really shut off, or keep on "float" charging?
>
> - Human nature: People who are inexperienced tend to:
> - Guess.
> - Ignore the problem.
> - Seek bad advice (that tells them what they want to hear).
> - Then go with the cheapest solution.
>
> So, my advice is to learn all you can! Get data sheets for the batteries
> and charger in question. If you can't, make measurements for yourself
> (don't rely on assumptions, or bogus experts on the internet. or
> marketing claims from unknown suppliers).
>
> If you go without a BMS, understand that any minor failure is likely to
> escalate into a *major* failure before you notice it! It's like deciding
> you don't need any expensive fuses or circuit breakers in your house
> wiring; just wire everything directly to the incoming power. Cheap!
> Easy! And it works fine, until the first time anything anywhere happens
> to fail shorted. Then it burns your house down.
>
> Now, on the subject of a voltage-sensing controller: This is a simple
> method of shutting off a "dumb" charger for a lead-acid pack. That's
> because voltage is a reasonable indication of state of charge for
> lead-acid. Also, overcharging an old or damaged string of lead-acid
> batteries may cause early cell failures; but they are not likely to be
> spectacular disasters.
>
> For charging lithiums, you really need to know the voltage *and* current
> *and* time to turn off the charger. Voltage alone is not enough.
>
> The normal approach is to have a charger that is smart enough to shut
> off when the voltage and current and time are all "right". It won't
> charge to an excessive voltage; and it will turn itself off if the
> current stays too high for too long (an indication that something is
> wrong). A good charger will also have some form of temperature sensing,
> as the correct conditions are temperature-dependent.
>
> But if the charger is only sensing total voltage, it won't know if just
> one cell fails in the pack. That one cell could go seriously
> over-voltage, or fail shorted. In either case, this can lead to a fire.
> That's why you normally have a BMS. It senses each cell, and can stop
> the charger if something goes wrong.
>
> If you are a cheapskate, and don't believe in BMS, then at the very
> least I would suggest something like my Batt-Bridge
> . It will at least warn
> you that something is wrong *before* the disaster. You can also use the
> light from the Batt-Bridge LEDs to control a relay to shut down the
> charger (if charging) or motor controller (if driving).
>
> --
> Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
> violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
> in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Supercap, ultracap, Goldcap> take the plunge

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 at 04:40, Jan Steinman via EV  wrote:

> Supercaps are currently 1-10 farads or so. A farad can supply an amp for a 
> second.

I think you might be a little out of touch on Supercaps.

I've had a sample Maxwell PC223 8 Farad cap on the shelf for nearly 30 years.

They've been into the multi 1000F range for years.

https://uk.farnell.com/cornell-dubilier/cdlc302p2r7lr/ultracapacitor3000f2-7v0-00026/dp/2113245?pf=110449709=PB3yvz0V97AaURYuqm4eafN2ZyPF9iml7r7lB73MB86%2Fx%2BfBO7r66S6Hv%2Bm%2FSEP4fVg8mqr%2Fz6GvzLwg7Uq%2FbdzatR5QTfC%2F993%2FMwwq9UqP1h8WlDqIRRYqBq8TrWOhGmtZ5P6sxXyrTmzJ6iTEw9aZr%2FTRgKvIf93tg96tOxa0jNm8AJlagHG4rDVAfwvzwGjfFUUDd5Xl5fXylHL%2FCuFPxMw96Tb%2BNYnB58F%2B1ZdQaNsge14noA2I8MtvZUqvYpivPFir5NHBv4gBwz6XwztBR6pRxSSB2YLu5P9kEL94UaLG9fRctJbWcqDQsNS0oAWHM15S8%2F49Wf8%2BHAT%2BdD8PwGkriJrm8WJmpMHu5dWSV5cJYccW1%2BMIzbU5gutB2QMZ%2FlTFduInegTsSOB61jcy06hybhnj3LyBEWEn86CaKEOVrw%2BWQJGi5VJnBcBGNJrkeO3B8urlziCTcgqAkBdRyqsz2%2FMfiiP3zcG2qQ1MOK%2BNIg7G9cE2wdck4mYBuDGHsyMpZ7E81c%2FAk%2B7u76AYu2C1Unl%2BjCjLO6mcHt11%2BiSja2NirYJDBnXI0BPcKx6ECSIOoxob5Ux9P5io3ym4tslO2mArKxCLISLGgEKAuQnsjyB4tt%2FjDZUcAn9ms%2F4G9Cr61ZjVFtpqZcsVdRHfHo8g7YoPk2C01SsuS0Nu4nPj13zX7nQWpwxbX%2B10wQQS5pwb1Y1PZn7OoWpa4k5XpXf5PN0Z%2F8AZdeRUo4RsVGnlWZoBdDrPkWYIirK8m33pweipQW0k73NWn%2FsiLK8Msc8%2FLh5uZmc9bHIi3czWpRC2DntwYB
 
z%2FO%2FFaoFL0sZCBYRpm2RRZb2cPG88JU08Fo%2B620hqtE%2BJAcwC6FJv4ERhJY4lEBgB00b%2BbWDKummIlMKtJ5JEAjJgsWiNM6o129GgMNLHtZ8kIFHEzg5algFmSYnM59o0BvXdqWEnRJXPVT7VpbJ3UiV%2BLgY2Yb1BeBkY8Uwoo4%2F6cum8XqjMoTLAm4%2B2z%2FRu2ALFaOtwfdeFpL7KHY80Ji8AeXE7jLL1HwSL0byCZ18HxkTLywW4I%2BXNOfX8BKRc%2FICSJ3lJNGPfV5qP4xJUvlDkNNRMW7Xuft2hxOJUGsv0%2B3%2BJN5gDWqHQJYf0oTyBIv3arBUG9cJp6ZzUJLTmOs4fmbgEAYbN6WnlDMJfemN4fMvOZ2cbAf42Lp8hdF%2FUc9dRb6vJGTRjbl4T%2BUcwxmUMti%2BKKtJSpCM%2B9tPVlwBG74hd0Eoc3Zta65J2enq0sCMke%2BeWsd9FpBUS7RWAvvkNCF2JjzD21gisBZKuZIpmJNs3uYIycpRninBO3p3CeGuLuyDW%2BvGI5gySiiR7LmM6Tqc7ajQPRY7pb7n3UKaTJ4EtfVGAMLfZDAac2mxjQ5G1gxUHpLO2YkGi%2Ffj02xyMKSsJxxoyV%2FyBVXw9ucsf%2BgIiwfN13Vdwp%2BJi5YURr76dUd%2BaMaFdKqPysCkA51aTdGlxoAf23DHyM05fCwyQ0L2dXb0yrhKmffugIyAWPZ9gp6EW%2Fx4UMy7VcJOkQbWEtWtoyfw%3D%3D=https%3Aen-GB%2FElement14_United_Kingdom%2Fc%2Fpassive-components%2Fcapacitors%2Fsupercap-ultracap-double-layer-capacitors


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (Nonstarter)> $30k HD's LiveWire e-motorcycle r:110mi 0-60mph:3.5s

[Paul Compton via EV]

US$30K for the Livewire and only another 8K to buy Lightning's road
legal race bike, the LS218.

Even worse, Lightning have just announced their new road oriented
machine starting at US$13K


On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 at 02:50, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
>
> http://infosurhoy.com/cocoon/saii/xhtml/en_GB/news/no-juice-for-harley-davidsons-turnaround-livewire-is-a-nonstarter/
> No Juice For Harley Davidson’s Turnaround: LiveWire Is A Nonstarter
> Jan 15, 2019  Denis Bedoya
>
> What the heck is Harley-Davidson thinking? Its long-awaited electric
> LiveWire motorcycle is now ready for pre-order pending shipment in August,
> but instead of making an accessible, high-performance machine that could
> jump-start a sales renaissance, it instead delivered another premium-priced
> bike that underperforms the competition.
>
> Motorcycle enthusiasts and investors waited five years to see what Harley
> would come out with, and this is how they’ve been rewarded. To shareholders
> who hoped the LiveWire would spark Harley’s turnaround, I have some advice:
> Pull the plug on that dream now, because it isn’t going to happen.
>
> More of the same
>
> Make no mistake, the 2020 LiveWire is a beauty. It accelerates from 0 to 60
> mph in 3.5 seconds (with “futuristic sound!”) and offers riders “twist and
> go” technology that requires no clutch or gear shifting. There’s a Level 1
> onboard battery charger so that you can plug into any normal outlet and
> charge the bike overnight, or you can visit a public Level 3 DC Fast Charge
> station for speedier charging — typically 20 minutes to an hour.
>
> Where Harley-Davidson is short-circuiting its vision is on the price: the
> LiveWire retails for just under $30,000, meaning that within the company’s
> lineup, only the trikes and ultra high-end CVO bikes are more expensive. And
> while its battery range of 110 miles on a single charge in urban driving
> conditions is better than the 60 miles the prototype offered, it’s still
> less than the ranges of electric motorcycles already on the market.
> Relatively few people will want or be able to buy this bike.
>
> By contrast, the Model S from Zero Motorcycles, which has been dubbed the
> “Tesla of motorcycles,” comes with its new, more powerful ZF14.4 battery.
> When outfitted with an optional Power Tank (which provides an additional 3.6
> kilowatt hours of battery storage), Zero’s e-bike can do 223 miles of city
> driving or almost 100 miles on the highway, and it sells for half the price
> of a LiveWire. Notably, the LiveWire can only manage 70 miles of highway
> riding on a charge, meaning you won’t be taking it out for many long Sunday
> morning jaunts in the country.
>
> Missing the market
>
> Harley has experienced a four-year sales slump as buyers turn away from
> expensive, chrome-laden, big-block engine bikes like those the industry
> leader is famous for. Instead, a ridership demographic that is tilting
> younger and increasingly female has been favoring leaner, lighter, and
> cheaper motorcycles.
>
> Harley did get the look right: You’d be hard-pressed to find any chrome on
> the LiveWire, and as the frame is made out of cast aluminum, it’s probably
> light enough to offset what is likely a heavy battery. And the company built
> plenty of “connectivity” into the bike — you can use your smartphone to
> check battery life, the bike’s location, and tamper notifications.
>
> But if the urban market is what Harley-Davidson was targeting with the
> LiveWire — and its “All Roads Lead to Harley” roadmap it laid out last
> summer said the wave of electric bikes coming would be “light, nimble and
> ready to tackle the urban landscape” — well, 30 large is likely going to
> prove too high a number for folks to plunk down on a motorcycle just to get
> around the city.
>
> Indeed, the price tag makes it difficult to tell if Harley-Davidson is
> really committed to electric motorcycles — or even if it’s serious about
> pulling itself out of its sales slump.
>
> The LiveWire won’t make the short list for most motorcycle shoppers, even
> those considering an e-bike. And if Harley doesn’t generate sufficient sales
> now, how is it going to commit more resources to future models?
>
> This seems to me like a failure in the making, and for anyone who hoped the
> LiveWire was the bike Harley-Davidson mounted to jump-start its turnaround,
> this is where you get of
> [© infosurhoy.com]
>
>
> [ref
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-30k-HD-LiveWire-e-motorcycle-opens-a-few-eyes-in-August-tp4692508.html
> ]
>
>
> +
> https://newatlas.com/panasonic-space-c-modular-electric-vehicle-architecture/57993/
> Panasonic's modular SPACe_C EV concept vehicle supports interchangeable
> bodies
> January 10, 2019  Going fully electric and autonomous can beautifully
> liberate the architecture of vehicles. It allows the cabin or cargo hold to
> be completely separate from the ...
> 

Re: [EVDL] Rant: not charging in an EVSE spot> extremely frustrating

[Paul Compton via EV]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 at 23:41, Gail Lucas via EV  wrote:
>
> I would like to see the
> car succeed as I think safety, in addition to other features, was excellent.

I disagree, Rick's attitude was 'crumple zones are marketing hype'.

Yes, you need a strong cage to limit crush injuries, but the human
body can only stand so much decelleration.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Toyota dealers say there is no sale$ demand.us for EVs

[Paul Compton via EV]

Having gone from "You don't have to plug it in" to "Self charging" for
their advertising in the UK, I have little time for Toyota.
On Thu, 13 Dec 2018 at 16:45, Tom Keenan via EV  wrote:
>
> If this is based on dealership interviews/meetings, then then perhaps the 
> dealership answer was really (...since we make less money on servicing 
> electrics) we don’t want to sell them. Thus, we pretend there is no demand.
>
> Tom Keenan
>
> > On Dec 13, 2018, at 12:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > https://evbite.com/there-might-not-be-toyota-all-electric-car-and-heres-why/
> > There Might Not Be Another Toyota All-Electric Car, and Here’s Why
> > December 8, 2018  David Mowatt
> >
> > [images
> > https://i2.wp.com/evbite.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/RAV4-EV.jpg
> > ]
> >
> > While the Japanese automaker has made considerable strides in the electric
> > plug-in and hybrid market thanks to their various Prius model variants, it
> > has been quite some time since we’ve seen a purely electric vehicle from
> > Toyota. According to Jack Hollis, the general manager of Toyota Motor North
> > America, it is unlikely we’ll be see a Toyota all-electric car anytime soon.
> >
> > With other well-known automakers pushing desperately towards
> > electrification, it always appeared rather odd that Toyota never seemed to
> > step outside of the plug-in and hybrid world in order to construct a
> > fully-electric car to compete with the ever changing marketplace.
> >
> > According to Jack Hollis, Toyota dealers don’t believe they can sell enough
> > fully-electric vehicles to warrant a business case, plain and simple.
> >
> > During a roundtable interview at the recent Los Angeles Auto Show, Hollis
> > shared:
> >
> >“If our dealers, and we just met with our national dealer council two
> > weeks ago, if our dealers felt like there was a significant demand (for EVs)
> > we would have already had fully electric and electric vehicles already on
> > the road today.
> >
> >“Having that technology, which you’ll remember if you go back the
> > electric RAV4 was one of the first electric offerings in the marketplace in
> > the US, period. So the technology there and what we can offer is available,
> > but like any good demand and supply economy, if the demand is low, do you
> > really want to supply?”
> >
> > Longtime fans of the Japanese automaker may remember the RAV4 EV, the first
> > Toyota all-electric car. Initially introduced in 1997, the fully-electric
> > crossover was discontinued in 2003 before Toyota later reintroduced a second
> > model in 2012. The second generation RAV4 EV, unfortunately, was
> > discontinued after just a few years on the market. In spite of the RAV4 EV’s
> > relatively short lifespan, its very existence shows that Toyota do know how
> > to make fully-electric vehicles—they just don’t believe they can make money
> > doing so at the moment.
> >
> > Hollis added:
> >
> >“But I will say at the exact same time, there is daily investment ... of
> > our electrification strategy, so I do not believe that our dealers, and they
> > would agree, that we should not go down just with an electric offering but
> > we should with an electrification offering where we have a wider range of
> > products, a wide range of energy sources and uses available. And that’s
> > really what were pursuing, a wider range. And then as we go over time well
> > be able to see where the marketplace moves. But at this point, there is no
> > reason to race that to market.”
> >
> > Toyota clearly plans to take their time as they ease into the electric
> > vehicle marketplace, which we can’t fault them for. Unlike automakers like
> > Volkswagen who claim to be able to pump out over 50 million electric
> > vehicles, it’s interesting to see Toyota opt for a slower, more relaxed pace
> > in regards to their electrification goals. Only time will tell when we’ll
> > see another Toyota all-electric car, but we hope it will be well worth the
> > wait.
> > [© evbite.com]
> >
> >
> > https://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2018/12/toyota-if-our-dealers-thought-they-could-sell-evs-we-d-already-have-one.html
> > Toyota: We Don't Have a Business Case to Make EVs » AutoGuide ...
> > Dec 06, 2018 - Toyota sells a ton of electrified vehicles between its
> > various Prius model ... “If our dealers, and we just met with our national
> > dealer council two ... was a significant demand (for EVs) we would have
> > already had fully ... And make no mistake about it, Toyota will offer an EV
> > one day – it's just ...
> > https://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Toyota-RAV-4-EV.jpg
> >
> >
> > [dated]
> > Toyota expanding NEV manufacturing in China - electrive.com
> > https://www.electrive.com/2018/08/17/toyota-expanding-ev-manufacturing-in-china/
> > Aug 17, 2018 - Specifically, Toyota plans to increase production capacities
> > for electric vehicles in their factories in Tianjin and Guangzhou. The first
> > location ...
> >

[EVDL] Report from UK Motorcycle Live show

[Paul Compton via EV]

https://www.facebook.com/paul.blezard/posts/10156955611725850

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[EVDL] Cd is mostly a marketing figure

[Paul Compton via EV]

Drag is usually measured in a wind tunnel and is the force needed to
force a vehicle through the air at a given speed. From this drag force
you can calculate the required torque at the driving wheels and derive
the power required.

Cd is a figure derived from the actual drag. It uses air density and a
reference area. The reference are is usually frontal area for
vehicles, which might be gross width times gross height, or might be
the silhouette.

Comparing published figures for Cd, engine power and top speed, it
appears that most manufacturers are using gross frontal area to
generate a lower Cd for marketing purposes.

When you get into airfoil sections the frontal area is quite small, so
it's common to use plan area, or 'wetted' area, ie the total area
exposed to the air flow. Airfoil sections should keep their airflow
attatched over much of their surface area, so a plan or wetted areas
are relevant.

The solar racers are probably using plan area to generate such low Cd
figures, so you can't compare them to conventional cars.

If only people would actually publish the drag force measured in the
wind tunnel.

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Re: [EVDL] Big Batteries in 1957

[Paul Compton via EV]

The Lunar Rover used Silver Zinc cells. It's usually reported that
these were primary cells, but they were the same cells used by NASA in
rechargable applications, they just didn't bother with any provision
to recharge them.

Looking around, available Silver Zinc cells seem to have an energy
density of around 130 Wh/Kg, so Lithium have them matched on energy
density and well beaten on cycle life.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 7.2k orders.eu4 $13.6k micro-mobility.com(Isetta) r:133mi (v)

[Paul Compton via EV]

Conventional motorcycles have appalling aerodynamics. In the UK,
learners were limited to machine of no more than 125cc and 12bhp. You
could expect a top speed of 60mph.

My Scirocco EV would also do about 60mph on that power (as read from
the gauges).

The Microlino is the right kind of shape, more rounded at the front,
more pointed at the back and is devoid of the kind of random
projections and seams that my 80's Scirocco was burdened with. It
wouldn't surprise me if the aerodynamics were pretty good.

On 24 August 2018 at 02:37, Alan Arrison via EV  wrote:
> Yeah right 8000/74=108wh per mile.
>
> maybe at 10mph. Motorcycles don't even do that good.
>
> Al
>
>
>> The Microlino will offer two different lithium-ion battery sizes: an 8-kwh
>> unit is good for 74 miles, and a 14.4-kwh version will cover 133 miles.
>>
>> The company says charging will take four hours.
>>
>> Either way, the Microlino is strictly a city car, with a top speed of 55
>> mph
>> from its 20-hp electric motor.
>>
>>   http://evdl.org/archive/
>>
>>
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> ___
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>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Mom yanks kids from e-toy-suv w/ smoking pack before it flames

[Paul Compton via EV]

There's a world of difference between 'self extinguishing' plastic and
non flamable. Get enough of the plastic burning in the first place and
it becomes its own ignition source.

On 17 August 2018 at 12:58, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> Any electrical system can burn up. All you need it to short the battery if 
> there is no fuse or you bypass the fuse then the wire becomes the fuse and 
> can easily catch plastic on fire
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 16, 2018, at 11:50 PM, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
>>
>> brucedp5 via EV wrote:
>>> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/north-andover-massachusetts-michelle-kline-kids-electric-toy-car-bursts-into-flames-video/
>>> Mother yanks 2 children from electric toy car before it's engulfed in flames
>>
>> There's got to be more to the story.
>>
>> It looks like one of the classic "Powerwheels" jeeps that have been sold for 
>> 20+ years. My son had one, and so have numerous friends. I've fixed them for 
>> friends and neighbors for years.
>>
>> The last time I saw them in the stores, they were still using lead-acid 
>> batteries, which basically can't burn. I don't know of anything in these 
>> toys that would burn light that!
>>
>> I'm wondering if somone substituted some cheap substandard lithium battery 
>> pack in it?
>>
>> --
>> "Verschlimmbessern" (German, verb) - To make something worse by
>> trying to improve it. (English translation: "Microsoft"?)
>> --
>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>> ___
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>
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>



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Re: [EVDL] Subject: Re: George Bush father now: Nissan Leaf Compliance car?

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 11 August 2018 at 23:49, Willie via EV  wrote:


> I thought Leafs were 80kw.  Are they now offering a low power model to
> increase efficiency?

No, it's just the usual casual attitude to the difference between
drive system power (kW) and battery capacity (kWh).

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: mankamemotors.com EP-1 e-Motorcycle.in r:500km ts:251kph

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 6 June 2018 at 01:46, MattsAwesomeStuff via EV  wrote:

> Nope. Cedric built what looks like an electric bicycle, that probably goes
> bicycle speeds (it doesn't say). Physics are what they are. No battery
> improvement is going to change how much power it takes to push air out of
> the way. A 5kwh pack is a 5kwh pack.

>From Cedric's home at Potters Bar in Hertfordshire, to Honiton in
Devon (where his motor design was then built by Lemco), is roughly 170
miles.

Cedric was able to complete that journey at an average of about 45mph
on a single charge. Top speed is around 70mph.

The battery at that time was 48v of 100Ah Thundersky cells. They're
now around 10 years old and their internal resistance is now too high
for vehicle use, even though they retain much of their capacity.

Cedric has a couple of PV panels on the roof of his shed to charge
that original pack, plus a few more old cells. The stationary pack
voltage is designed so he can just connect his streamliner pack in
parallel to charge.

He harvests enough energy, pretty much year round, for his commute to
Bicester in Oxfordhire where he now works for Agility Saietta (who are
partners with AGNI, who now make Cedric's motors).


> 300km on a 5kwh pack is 27wh/mile (2.2hp).

Enough power for Cedric's machine to do 60+ mph.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: mankamemotors.com EP-1 e-Motorcycle.in r:500km ts:251kph

[Paul Compton via EV]

A small/medium motorcycle and rider generates approximately the same
drag at 60mph as a Nissan Leaf.

You're not going to get 200 miles of range from a smaller battery at
realistic speeds.

On 4 June 2018 at 19:52, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>
>
> https://www.autoevolution.com/news/indian-electric-motorcycle-goes-for-310-miles-range-125993.html#agal_1
> Indian Electric Motorcycle Goes for 310 Miles Range
> 30 May 2018  Daniel Patrascu
>
> [images
> https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/indian-electric-motorcycle-goes-for-310-miles-range-125993_1.jpg
>
> https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/indian-electric-motorcycle-goes-for-310-miles-range_1.jpg
> Mankame EP-1  12 photos
> ]
>
> Building an electric car with a range of 310 miles (500 km) is not such a
> difficult task these days as far as batteries are concerned. The size of the
> car allows for enough cells to be fitted so that the vehicles can have the
> desired reach. Not the same can be said about electric motorcycles.
>
> Being as they are, average electric motorcycles usually have a range of a
> little over 200 miles (321 km). But an Indian company which goes by the name
> of Mankame begs to differ.
>
> By using a high-density, liquid-cooled 18.4kWh battery pack, combined with
> regenerative braking, the company says its bike should be more than capable
> of reaching well above that modest range of current bikes.
>
> The motorcycle’s rear wheel is driven by a Kevlar reinforced belt drive,
> connected to a 40KW motor that delivers 180 Nm at the shaft and 432 Nm at
> the wheel. That should give it “quiet operation and increased torque-jerk
> tolerance and eliminate any lubrication needs,” Mankame claims.
>
> The motorcycle will be called Mankame EP-1, and it does not yet exist as a
> physical model. The company behind it plans to launch a crowdfunding
> Indiegogo campaign for the bike on July 1st.
>
> "Our vision is to build the most reliable electric Sport-bike in the world
> that beats petrol powered motorbikes in their own field," claim the Indians
> on the Indiegogo page.
>
> There will be at least three versions of the bike offered. The one providing
> for the biggest range and a top speed of 156 mph (251 km/h) would be priced
> at $13,000.
>
> Two cheaper versions would also be on the table: a $10,500, 14.97 kWh with
> 111 mph (180 km/h) and the entry-level $8,500 bike equipped with a 12.16 kWh
> battery and a top speed of only 74 mph (120 km/h).
>
> Neither of the three can at the time be ordered, as Mankame awaits the
> official start of the crowdfunding campaign.
> [© autoevolution.com]
>
>
> https://www.autoevolution.com/news/indian-electric-motorcycle-goes-for-310-miles-range-125993.html
> Indian Electric Motorcycle Goes for 310 Miles Range
> 30 May 2018  Building an electric car with a range of 310 miles (500 km) is
> not such a difficult task these days as far as batteries are concerned. The
> size of the car allows for …
> https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news-pictures-600x/indian-electric-motorcycle-goes-for-310-miles-range-125993-7.jpg
>
>
> +
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/why-electric-motorcycles-shouldn-e2-80-99t-be-compared-to-electric-cars/ar-AAy1zC7
> Why Electric Motorcycles Shouldn’t Be Compared To Electric Cars
> Why Zero isn’t the “Tesla of Motorcycles” and why the media needs to stop
> comparing electric apples to electric oranges. With an ever-growing number
> of …
> https://img-s-msnhttps://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAy19bO.img
>
>
>
>
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>  http://evdl.org/archive/
>
>
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
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Re: [EVDL] Nikola Motor sues Tesla over design patent violation

[Paul Compton via EV]

It sounds like Nikola hold design patents, not invention patents.
These are much easier to obtain, but also much easier to get around.
Often the reason for taking out a design patent is solely to be able
to say you hold a patent.

On 3 May 2018 at 05:35, Cor van de Water via EV  wrote:
> Sounds like "and if you can't win, sue them."
> I put the pics of the two trucks next to each other and can't see much 
> similarities
> other than that they both have wheels, sweeping windshields and streamlined 
> face,
> but just about every new designed vehicle rendering has the same.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Marco Gaxiola via EV
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 7:12 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: Marco Gaxiola
> Subject: [EVDL] Nikola Motor sues Tesla over design patent violation
>
> https://www.electrive.com/2018/05/02/nikola-motor-sues-tesla-over-alleged-design-patent-violation/
>
>
> Nikola Motor has filed a lawsuit against Tesla claiming the Semi electric
> truck to be “substantially” similar to Nikola Motor’s own design of a fuel
> cell electric semi truck. In the filing, the infringement is estimated to
> be worth a loss of 2 billion dollars to Nikola. Tesla denies the
> allegations.
>
> The lawsuit is based on six design patents issued in the U.S. between
> February and April 2018 for its Nikola Motor’s wrap windshield, mid-entry
> door, fuselage, fender, side cladding and the overall design of the Nikola
> One. Hence Nikola’s claim of the infringement being substantial.
>
> Tesla had reportedly revealed
> 
>  the Semi electric truck last November and has since been taking orders
> from the likes of FedEx
> , DHL, or
> UPS and also opened the books in several European countries (we reported
> 
> ).
>
> Back to the court case and the filing that reads: “Nikola estimates its
> harm from Tesla’s infringement to be in excess of $2 billion,” although it
> is unclear where Nikola takes this number from. The U.S. American company
> had presented their fuel cell truck Nikola One
>  in
> December 2016 and has since been taking orders. So many in fact, that just
> a few weeks ago, the company announced it would not require any deposits
> any longer and that is had received pre-orders valued at 8 billion dollars
> already (we reported
> 
> ).
>
> It appears as if Nikola Motors is really wanting (or having) to go head to
> head with Tesla in the race for the electrification of the heavy duty
> vehicles business. Whilst Tesla is loosely planning to launch the Semi
> electric truck around 2019 or 2020, the Nikola One and Nikola Two fuel cell
> trucks are only due by 2021.
>
> Nikola plans to build
> 
>  a 1 billion dollar manufacturing facility for its fuel cell trucks near
> Phoenix, Arizona next year.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Production version of Nissan IMx EV coming

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 22 March 2018 at 05:01, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> Soon the Leaf will no longer be Nissan’s only all-electric model.

It hasn't been since about 2013.

They've forgotten the E-NV200.

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Re: [EVDL] Clare Bell, JB: interesting links

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 21 March 2018 at 15:10, EVDL Administrator via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> On 21 Mar 2018 at 10:47, Paul Compton via EV wrote:

>  Clare had a lot of EV work
> going back in the day.  She was active in (a founder of maybe?) WE'RE-IT,
> the Women's Electric Racing Team.  WE'RE-IT competed in EV track racing
> events, including the Phoenix APS Electrics.

> I'm pretty sure that another EVDL member of that era, Mary Ann Chapman, was
> also a WE'RE-IT member.

I was a WE'RE-IT team member in 1996 (special dispensation; no surgery
required) and Mary Ann was the driver that year.
>From 1997 to 1999, Mike Slominski and I effectively ran the car. John
Wayland hooked us up with some Optima batteries and we ran under the
Optimal Performance banner.

For the last year we borrowed a Zilla controller and ran at 288v
nominal, but with current to the ADC 9" motor limited to 200amp peak.
We topped 135mph in testing on the runways at Alameda and were giving
the National Auto Sports Association cars a run for their money in raw
speed and lap times. We took an easy third place in the 12 lap short
race despite our speed being severely limited by an overheating
controller. Running the coolant through a box full of ice solved that
problem. A throttle safety microswitch failure took us out of the 25
lap race, which was a real shame because with our new higher top speed
we could tuck up under the rear spoiler of the AC Propulsion powered
Z28 and run down the fast straight with barely any throttle.

Richard Hatfield was our driver/sponsor that year and the performance
achieved helped inspire him to quit the financial industry and found
first Alliance Renewable Energy and then Lightning Motorcycles.

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Re: [EVDL] Clare Bell, JB: interesting links

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 21 March 2018 at 06:56, EVDL Administrator via EV  wrote:

> Glad to hear Clare Bell is well.  I never knew she'd written kids' books.

Definitely not 'Kids' books!

Some of her books got classified as 'Young Adult', but they weren't
written specifically for that market.

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Re: [EVDL] Clare Bell, JB: interesting links

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 20 March 2018 at 02:58, Bill Dube via EV  wrote:
> Whatever happened to Clair Bell?
> She dropped off the grid around the EVS-16 or so.

Clare moved to the Rocket Ranch at Patterson California and later
married the owner Chuck Piper.

For a while she only had a satellite phone.

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Re: [EVDL] Fast Charging... (Flywheel?)

[Paul Compton via EV]

As I recall, there was a company that had produced a commercial 30kWh
flywheel storage system. Ideal for peak load shaving,
voltage/frequency stabilisation, and buying off peak to use during the
day etc. Cycle life was essentially infinite with the rotor spinning
on magnetic bearings in an evacuated chamber.

It wasn't physically small, something like 4 meters tall.

JET, the joint European torus fusion research facility uses flywheel
storage to provide the enormous peak power needed to drive the
magnetic bottle.

"The main source of power for establishing the magnetic fields
required for inducing and confining the plasma current in the machine
consists of the two identical Flywheel-Generator-Convertor (FGC)
systems.

At the heart of each system is a 409.8 MVA fly-wheel ALSTOM generator,
with its own auxiliaries including oil systems, air-cooling system,
pony motor, excitation equipment, LV distribution for supply of
auxiliaries and HV distribution for generator excitation and pony
motor drive."

On 8 February 2018 at 16:20, Dan Kegel via EV  wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV
>  wrote:
>> I wonder how big a flywheel is needed to store the energy to charge a 250
>> mile range in 20 minutes?
>> Since it is fixed, and does not have to be in a vehicle, it might be the
>> answer to large charging stations.
>>
>> When ten TESLAs pull up at ten fast charge cords at the same time, that is
>> over a megawatt of needed power... in 20 minutes...
>
> That application doesn't capitalize on the flywheel's ultrafast
> charging and discharging abilities.
> And smoothing can be done by modulating the teslas' charging rates.
>
> But hey, who knows.  See
> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?as_ylo=2014=flywheel=de_sdt=2005=0,5=16378509166563059026=1
> for recent related papers.
> - Dan
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Re: [EVDL] Lead battery recycling, Not 98% (was: Delivery truck)

[Paul Compton via EV]

98% recyclable, not 98% recycled.

On 24 January 2018 at 15:07, EVDL Administrator via EV
 wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2018 at 0:20, Bill Dube via EV wrote:
>
>> Basically, at _least_ 35% of all lead-acid batteries are _not_ being
>> recycled.
>
> Bill, sorry, but I think this is too simplistic. For this analysis to apply,
> you'd have to assume that essentially every lead battery manufactured
> replaces an existing lead battery.  Obviously that's not the case, so of
> course some newly mined lead has to enter the manufacturing stream.
>
> To name only one reason, each year the vehicle population worldwide
> increases about 3.5 percent.  The vast majority is ICEVs, but almost every
> one of them has a lead battery.
>
> At the same time, the 98 percent figure has always struck me as implausible.
> I've seen too many explicit counter-examples, such as the coast guard
> workers I read about who (at least used to) regularly tip spent buoy
> batteries into the deep so they wouldn't have to haul them back to port.
>
> Do you work in an office?  In the years I worked in a place that had a UPS
> at every computer workstation, the number of batteries I rescued from the
> trash and took home to my own recycling pile numbered in the dozens.  I'm
> sure I probably missed the majority of them.
>
> It's also shocking to read the harrowing accounts of third-world battery
> recycling. Apparently it's cheaper to export some batteries and other
> recyclables to low-wage countries for dismantling.  In many cases these
> nations have weak or nonexistent environmental laws, or the laws can be
> bypassed with a small cash payment.  Thousands of dirt-poor people work in
> these gigantic festering scrap piles, with no protective gear, poisoning
> themselves and their air, water, and ground day after day.  How is this
> accounted for?  Do we ignore it because they're lead-polluting some other
> country, not ours?  And shouldn't we consider the impact of shipping the
> batteries over, and the reclaimed materials back?
>
> Sure, there's a well developed recyling infrastructure for lead batteries,
> and thank goodness for it.  But what are the consequences for not using it?
> Nobody is checking your trash.  In the end it's down to individual
> responsibility.  Good luck finding much of that,  outside of folks on this
> list.
>
> I've seen this 98 percent battery recycling figure many times over the
> years. While (as the song says) data is not the plural of anecdote, my own
> observations, reading, and experience make me skeptical about it.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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>
>
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Re: [EVDL] Another recommendation for a drive way protection circuit....

[Paul Compton via EV]

The Skoda Elmo pickup had a simple system.

The charge cable was captive to the vehicle and stored in a
compartment behind what was the grill. A socket was fitted in the
compartment and plugging the cable in completed a circuit via the
earth pin that operated an interlock relay. This also meant that the
integrity of the earth connection in the charging cable was verified
every time the vehicle was driven.

On 11 January 2018 at 06:31, Lee Hart via EV  wrote:
> Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote:
>>
>> I've driven off with cars that have battery tenders installed and plugs
>> not visible.  Bad scene.
>
>
> I've always arranged my charging connector so if/when I drive off, it simply
> unplugs itself. No damage done.
>
> I almost always use 120vac charging. The charger is in the car. Arcing is
> only a minor issue with AC; arcs automatically extinguish 120 times a second
> (at every zero-crossing). Since virtually every appliance every consumer
> owns works like this, AC receptacles are designed to tolerate occasional
> arcing if someone plugs or unplugs something "live".
>
> For instance, my LeCar EV has its charging connector on the front grille. I
> drive into the garage nose-first, because that's where the charger is. The
> door to the house is on the right, so I have to walk in front of the car
> anyway to get in or out. That makes it easy and almost automatic to plug it
> in when I arrive home, or unplug it when I leave. Even if I forget, it just
> unplugs itself as I back out.
> --
> Whether we or our politicians know it or not, Nature is party to all
> our deals and decisions, and she has more votes, a longer memory,
> and a sterner sense of justice than we do. -- Wendell Berry
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
>
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Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (with radiators)

[Paul Compton via EV]

Look up fan assisted radiators, or fan convectors.

On 30 November 2017 at 15:35, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> Robert, your method of putting fans near a radiator is something I had
> wanted to try. Really getting OT, here, so if people prefer, reply
> privately.
>
> A couple years ago I had to replace my gas furnace. I looked into getting a
> heat pump system but it was not possible with the various constraints and
> payback period so I bought a new gas furnace :(
>
> Anyway, one of the options I studied was to put in radiators instead of
> forced air. I would have run pex through the ducts to each register. One of
> the advantages of this kind of unit would have been space - no blowers, and
> I could have reclaimed return air duct space.
>
> I didn't want surface mount radiators because of the space they take. It
> might have been possible, but not easy. Instead I wanted to find some
> recessed radiators with a small fan to waft the air over the fins and into
> the room - gently, not with a breeze. Couldn't find any such product. Also,
> the fans would have to be very high quality in order to last and operate
> extremely quietly.
>
> Has anyone considered this?
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Robert Bruninga" 
> Sent: 30-Nov-17 4:54:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (with radiators)
>
>> Yep, 90F is just fine for heating since it is continuous and low velocity.
>> Sure, people love to stand over a blast of 140F furnace air, for the few
>> minutes the furnace is on, because they get so cold with no warm air when
>> it cycles off.  I prefer the consistent warming of my heatpump and
>> cast-iron radiators.
>>
>> PLUS it reduced our $3000/yr oil costs down to only $1000 electric which
>> was easily made up with another solar array to keep us 100% carbon and oil
>> free.  See http://aprs.org/geothermal.html
>>
>> The water in the heatpump and old cast iron radiators rarely gets above
>> about 105F and yet heats the house in Maryland just fine*.  Of course,
>> being a hacker, I keep the hot water that low (higher efficiency for the
>> heatpump) by having some convenient fans by some of the radiators where we
>> can hide the fans.  This doubles convection and heat flow while keeping
>> the water temp lower.  The heatpump can go to 126F, but the efficiency is
>> -much- lower than when it is running at only 105F.
>>
>> PLUS it is free "zone" heat in every room, simply by which fans are on.
>>
>> I even wired an outlet on the floor near every radiator where we can hide
>> a fan, so that the fans only come on while the compressor is running.
>>
>> Our church went from $4000/yr for Propane down to $1100 added electric
>> with an air-source heatpump.  And again, we are reducing that to zero with
>> another solar array.
>>
>> * When temps get below about 20F, then the radiator water temp does get to
>> about 115F and the house can barely maintain 65F.  At lower temps, I
>> finally turn on the AUX heat.
>>
>> The three HVAC companies all wanted to design an 8 TON heatpump and all
>> were leery that the water temp would not be high enough for COMFORT
>> because "radiators are designed for 140F".  I argued, that the house was
>> built with no insulation and with blown in insulation a few decades ago,
>> that the radiators are now oversized, AND that if I needed more heat, I'd
>> do the fan thing.
>>
>> Two of the three companies refused to do the job because they clearly had
>> rarely done a heatpump-to-hot water system and only were following
>> "typical" guidelines without any actual "engineering" to match my needs.
>> The winning contractor, agreed to do it MY way and his was the lowest
>> price too.  He got $28k, the others wanted $38k and $48k.  Half of that
>> was the HEATPUMP cost.  The other half was for the Geothermal wells.  A
>> lot, but reducing my family's $6000/yr energy costs down to only about
>> $300/yr very qickly has made it up.
>>
>> If we had gone for air-source instead of ground-source, the cost would
>> have been half but not quite as efficient.  Besides, the wife wanted a new
>> driveway, and since that is where the wells had to go, then she got a new
>> driveway (costing more than the entire HVAC system in the first place) yet
>> that was all part of the job which also qualified for the 30% energy tax
>> credits.
>>
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of ROBERT via EV
>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 12:22 AM
>> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>> Cc: ROBERT
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC
>> unit)
>>
>> Anyone who has a home heat pump can check the register temperature with a
>> thermometer.  You will find if the heat strips are not energized the
>> maximum temperature is about 90 F with 

[EVDL] Simone Giertz bought a Sebring Vanguard

[Paul Compton via EV]

https://youtu.be/hXzcIoq2ing

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 1Pedal e-driving fun& excitement> 2keep ice-head's driver involvement

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 2 November 2017 at 16:33, Cor van de Water via EV  wrote:
> OK, so Nissan spends a lot of hoopla to say that BMW is right?
> And BMW is not even the first, they just made it more popular.
> Many other EVs have experimented with increased regen braking selection.


The E-pedal mode will bring the vehicle to a complete halt and applies
the mechanical brakes. It will even hold the vehicle stationary on a
hill.

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Re: [EVDL] OT Toyota admits 'Elon Musk is right'> that fcvs are incredibly dumb

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 31 October 2017 at 06:37, Mark Abramowitz via EV  wrote:

> Inefficient energy storage device? How so?

In the way that efficiency is defined; Energy out of the system,
divided by energy into the system, multiplied by 100.


> Compared to batteries, they can store energy much longer. Batteries are in 
> their sweet spot for energy storage for a number of hours, hydrogen for 
> longer periods. Batteries are for small scale storage, hydrogen can be used 
> up to grid level storage.

Where you have excess energy that would otherwise not be utilised,
then even a low efficiency storage system can make sense. It still
makes more sense to use a more efficient storage technology if the
technolgy costs are comparable. Redox batteries for example.


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Re: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?

[Paul Compton via EV]

I set my Scirocco conversion up by using a set of slide plates.
They're mounted on bearings that allow them to only move laterally and
the amount they move as the vehicle rolls over indicates the toe under
load more accurately than the normal method. I'd set up for a small
amount of toe-out, so that the wheels are at zero toe under cruise
load.

On 23 October 2017 at 22:37, Cor van de Water via EV  wrote:
> Peri,
> If you have tires already well pumped (~45 PSI) and nothing is dragging
> then I found that tweaking the toe of the front wheels makes a lot of
> difference
> in the consumption (mi/kWh) which can easily make a difference of more
> than 10 miles per charge.
> My first Leaf had trouble allowing me even to get 3.7 mi/kWh
> and then I saw my current Leaf showing 4.9 kWh/mi so I checked the
> difference
> and all I could find was that this Leaf had a slight toe-out.
> I drive more freeway than the previous owner, but it still gives me
> close to 4.5 mi/kWh
> and the tweaked toe of my original Leaf also increased its efficiency.
> Cor.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Peri Hartman
> via EV
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2017 2:26 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Cc: Peri Hartman
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
>
> Hi Lawrence,
>
> I've been paying attention to the kWh usage for various kinds of trips
> over the last several months. In summer, with reasonably careful
> driving, I could normally get better than 4 miles / kWh. Just like you
> ;) That was with no AC or other high aux loads. Now that we have cooler
> weather, it's maxing out around 2 miles / kWh. That's with heat and
> defrost on.
>
> Do you, or anyone, know if the Leaf miles / kWh meter (lower left of
> steering wheel) includes all the aux power or is it just the traction
> power? If the latter, then I would hypothesize that the battery is very
> sensitive to outdoor temperature. But, this seems extreme.
>
> Peri
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
> To: "Peri Hartman" 
> Cc:
> Sent: 05-Mar-17 9:52:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Re[6]: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
>
>>Starting and stopping it certainly will.  However when city driving I
>>accelerate to the speed limit and coast to the next stop if possible
>>using Regen to slow.  LR
>>
>>Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device
>>
>>On Mar 5, 2017 9:45 PM, Peri Hartman  wrote:
>>>Temperature could be contributing, but we're not that much colder -
>>>high 30s today. I think I'll check the brakes and see if they're
>>>dragging. Other than that, I think you are probably better at it than
>>>I and have better road conditions - lesser grades, longer blocks
>>>without stops, etc. Still, it definitely made a difference for me for
>>>city driving.
>>>
>>>Peri
>>>
>>>-- Original Message --
>>>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
>>>To: "Peri Hartman" 
>>>Cc:
>>>Sent: 05-Mar-17 9:38:10 PM
>>>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
>>>
Seems temperature is an issue.  My Leaf shows 4.3 average.
Temperature here is 45 F or higher.  I also coast as much as
possible.  LR

Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device

On Mar 5, 2017 8:51 PM, Peri Hartman  wrote:
>I tried a mostly freeway drive today, about 12 miles each way. Going
>
>there I averaged 3.0 miles/kwh, coming back I got 3.3, the primary
>difference probably being elevation change. I did my absolute best
>to try to stay with 2 balls but I found it took 3 balls to maintain
>about 56-57mph on the flat. Also there were some short grades where
>I had to go to 6 balls to keep within 10 mph of the speed limit and
>longer grades where I need 4 to stay at 50. It's an interesting
>challenge and experiment. I'll have to try the same trip again
>limiting to 4 balls and see how much difference there is.
>
>Peri
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Lawrence Rhodes" 
>To: "Peri Hartman" 
>Cc:
>Sent: 27-Feb-17 3:59:01 PM
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [EVDL] Leaf recommendations?
>
>>It's one thing safety with too much going on.  But my eyes flutter
>>to the power consumption and using the two ball system isn't like
>>keeping an eye all the time on the miles per kwh.  I can do it and
>>I have gotten amazing range but when going 25 in the city I'm
>>always coasting up to lights.  So again no way having cruise
>>control on saves energy. Saves your brain.  Not energy. Those micro
>>adjustments is what wastes energy.   Lawrence
>>
>>
>>---
>>-
>>From: Peri Hartman 
>>To: Lawrence Rhodes 

Re: [EVDL] 85 Year Old Uncle Worked 30+ Years on EV, Needs Help

[Paul Compton via EV]

I thought I recognised the car..

https://www.rqriley.com/tm.html

On 22 October 2017 at 20:54, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  wrote:
>  I had a Jet Courier truck using the same controller.  It was reliable.  
> However a simple Curtis/Chopper controller is much easier to set up and I bet 
> someone would donate one to Gramps if asked. They are also more efficient.  
> Lawrence Rhodes
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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Re: [EVDL] 85 Year Old Uncle Worked 30+ Years on EV, Needs Help

[Paul Compton via EV]

On 21 October 2017 at 17:42, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:

> I couldn't get any of the images to come up.

Just remove the [img] tags.

http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/carfront0491.JPG
http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/carside0490.JPG
http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/EV1fullview0483.JPG
http://ptandjb.com/eddiesEV1/EV1closeup0485.JPG

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