[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: The third eye is the portal to infinity, that's why it's important! Unfolding of the chakras unfold powers of morality, self control, chastity, descrimination, etc. That is why we meditate, and the unfolding of the chakras is the methodology from which we get these powers and win the battle of life, (i.e. good over evil). So, when does this concept appear? It's not in the Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita or Yoga Sutras. Where is it? In the Bhagavad Gita it is referred to allegorically (as that is what the Gita is, an allegory) as the 5 Pandavas which represent the 5 lower chakras: Sahadeva=coccyx center=restraint (muladhara chakra). Nakula=sacral center=obedience (svadhishthana chakra) Arjuna=lumbar=Self control (manipura chakra) Bhima=dorsal=vitality (anahata) Yudisthira=cervical=calmness (vishuddha) An interesting idea. Is that an ancient commentary, or one that post-dates the 1000+ AD works on the subject? When these powers or 'warriors' come to the aid (are unfolded) of the chela or 'Arjuna' they fight the evil minded sons of the blind King Dhritarashtra; lust, greed, avarice and so on.I could go on but you get the idea. The Gita is an alegorical story about the internal battlefield (kurukshetra) of man and his struggle with evil (delusion) and the final victory by ascention to Spirit and the destruction of evil. Of course, I could make a case, valid or no, that the 5 Pandavas refer to the 5 senses or somesuch... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, I assume that intentional transcending is actually a different physical state than spontaneous transcending, and that the former is an illusion, while the latter is based on a simple physical change in how the brain processes information, as a for example of where I'm coming from. So you're saying, essentially, that the fundamental assumption and bias you bring to any TM research that you participate in is based on the idea of elitism, that TM is unique and better than any other technique, right? Again, thanks for being honest about the level of your TM elitism, but I think that as a result we can safely disregard anything you might discover in conjunction with Fred as actually having anything to do with science. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sahadeva=coccyx center=restraint (muladhara chakra)
sahadeva (%{saha4-}) mfn. *with the gods*[emph. added] MBh. BhP. ; m.
N. of a R2shi (with the patr. %{vArSAgira}) RV. i , 107 ; of a man
(with the patr. %{zAJjaya}) S3Br. ; of the youngest of the five
Pa1n2d2ava princes (son of Ma1dri1 and reputed son of Pa1n2d2u , best
really son of the As3vins , and twin-brother of Nakula ;
. Nakula=sacral
center=obedience (svadhishthana chakra)
nakula mfn. (in spite of Pa1n2. 6-3 , 75 prob. not fr. %{na} + %
{kula}) of a partic. colour (perhaps that of the ichneumon) TS.
RPra1t. ; m. the Bengal mungoose or Viverra Ichneumon (enemy of mice
and of serpents from whose venom it protects itself by a medic.
plant ; cf. %{nAkulI}) AV. MBh. c. ; a son L. ; a partic. musical
instrument Lalit. ; N. of S3iva L. ; of a son of the As3vins and
Ma1dri1 (twin-brother of Saha-deva and fourth of the Pa1n2d2u
princes)
Arjuna=lumbar=Self control
(manipura chakra)
arjuna mfn. (cf. %{Rjra4} and %{raj}) white , clear (the colour of
the day RV. vi , 9 , 1 ; of the dawn RV. i , 49 , 3 ; of the
lightning ; of the milk ; of silver , c.) ; made of silver AV. iv ,
37 , 4 ; m. the white colour ' L. ; a peacock L. ; cutaneous disease
Sa1y. on RV. i , 122 , 5 ; the tree Terminalia Arjuna W. and A. ; N.
of a man RV. i , 122 , 5 ; of Indra VS. S3Br. , of the third of the
Pind2ava princes (who was a son of Kr2itavi1rya who was slain by
Paras3ura1ma) ib
Bhima=dorsal=vitality (anahata)
bhIma mf(%{A})n. fearful , terrific , terrible awful formidable ,
tremendous RV. c. c. (ibc. , fearfully c.) ; m. Rumex Vesicarius
L. ; N. of Rudra-S3iva A1s3vGr2. Un2. Sch. ; of one of the 8 forms of
S3iva Pur. ; of one of the 11 Rudras Pur. ; of a Devagandharva MBh. ;
of one of the Devas called Vajn5amush ib. ; of a Da1nava ib.
Katha1s. ; of a Vidya1dhara Katha1s. ; of a son of the Ra1kshasa
Kumbhakarn2a Cat. ; of the second son of Pa1n2d2u (also called) Bhima-
sena and Vr2iko7dara ; he was only the reputed son of PñPa1n2d2u ,
being really the son of his wife Pr2itha1 or Kunti1 by the wind-god
Va1yu , and was noted for his size , strength and appetite)
Yudisthira=cervical=calmness (vishuddha)
yudhiSThira m. (for %{-sthira}) ` firm or steady in battle 'N. of
the eldest of the 5 reputed sons of Pa1n2d2u (really the child of
Pr2itha1 or Kunti1 , Pa1n2d2u's wife , by the god Dharma or Yama ,
whence he is often called Dharma-putra or Dharma-ra1ja ; he
ultimately succeeded Pa1n2d2u as king , first reigning over Indra-
prastha , and afterwards , when the Kuru princes were defeated , at
Hastina1-pura ; cf. IW. 379 c.) MBh. Hariv. Pur. ; of a son of
Kr2ishn2a Hariv. ; of two kings of Kas3mi1ra Ra1jat. ; of a potter
Pan5cat. ; (with %{maho7pA7dhyAya}) of a preceptor Cat. ; pl. the
descendants of Yudhi-sht2hira (son of Pa1n2d2u) Pa1n2. 2-4 , 66
Sch. ; %{-vijaya} (or %{-dig-v-}) m. N. of a poem by Va1sudeva Parama-
s3iva-yogin of Kerala. [855,2]
When these powers or 'warriors' come to the aid (are unfolded) of
the
chela or 'Arjuna' they fight the evil minded sons of the blind King
Dhritarashtra; lust, greed, avarice and so on.I could go on but
you
get the idea.
The Gita is an alegorical story about the internal battlefield
(kurukshetra) of man and his struggle with evil (delusion) and the
final victory by ascention to Spirit and the destruction of
evil.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Of course, I assume that intentional transcending is actually a different physical state than spontaneous transcending, and that the former is an illusion, while the latter is based on a simple physical change in how the brain processes information, as a for example of where I'm coming from. So you're saying, essentially, that the fundamental assumption and bias you bring to any TM research that you participate in is based on the idea of elitism, that TM is unique and better than any other technique, right? Again, thanks for being honest about the level of your TM elitism, but I think that as a result we can safely disregard anything you might discover in conjunction with Fred as actually having anything to do with science. IOW, if my elitism is supported, it can't be because I am right, but only because I'm biased. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote:
Sahadeva=coccyx center=restraint (muladhara chakra)
sahadeva (%{saha4-}) mfn. *with the gods*[emph. added] MBh. BhP. ; m.
N. of a R2shi (with the patr. %{vArSAgira}) RV. i , 107 ; of a man
(with the patr. %{zAJjaya}) S3Br. ; of the youngest of the five
Pa1n2d2ava princes (son of Ma1dri1 and reputed son of Pa1n2d2u , best
really son of the As3vins , and twin-brother of Nakula ;
. Nakula=sacral
center=obedience (svadhishthana chakra)
nakula mfn. (in spite of Pa1n2. 6-3 , 75 prob. not fr. %{na} + %
{kula}) of a partic. colour (perhaps that of the ichneumon) TS.
RPra1t. ; m. the Bengal mungoose or Viverra Ichneumon (enemy of mice
and of serpents from whose venom it protects itself by a medic.
plant ; cf. %{nAkulI}) AV. MBh. c. ; a son L. ; a partic. musical
instrument Lalit. ; N. of S3iva L. ; of a son of the As3vins and
Ma1dri1 (twin-brother of Saha-deva and fourth of the Pa1n2d2u
princes)
Arjuna=lumbar=Self control
(manipura chakra)
arjuna mfn. (cf. %{Rjra4} and %{raj}) white , clear (the colour of
the day RV. vi , 9 , 1 ; of the dawn RV. i , 49 , 3 ; of the
lightning ; of the milk ; of silver , c.) ; made of silver AV. iv ,
37 , 4 ; m. the white colour ' L. ; a peacock L. ; cutaneous disease
Sa1y. on RV. i , 122 , 5 ; the tree Terminalia Arjuna W. and A. ; N.
of a man RV. i , 122 , 5 ; of Indra VS. S3Br. , of the third of the
Pind2ava princes (who was a son of Kr2itavi1rya who was slain by
Paras3ura1ma) ib
Bhima=dorsal=vitality (anahata)
bhIma mf(%{A})n. fearful , terrific , terrible awful formidable ,
tremendous RV. c. c. (ibc. , fearfully c.) ; m. Rumex Vesicarius
L. ; N. of Rudra-S3iva A1s3vGr2. Un2. Sch. ; of one of the 8 forms of
S3iva Pur. ; of one of the 11 Rudras Pur. ; of a Devagandharva MBh. ;
of one of the Devas called Vajn5amush ib. ; of a Da1nava ib.
Katha1s. ; of a Vidya1dhara Katha1s. ; of a son of the Ra1kshasa
Kumbhakarn2a Cat. ; of the second son of Pa1n2d2u (also called) Bhima-
sena and Vr2iko7dara ; he was only the reputed son of PñPa1n2d2u ,
being really the son of his wife Pr2itha1 or Kunti1 by the wind-god
Va1yu , and was noted for his size , strength and appetite)
Yudisthira=cervical=calmness (vishuddha)
yudhiSThira m. (for %{-sthira}) ` firm or steady in battle 'N. of
the eldest of the 5 reputed sons of Pa1n2d2u (really the child of
Pr2itha1 or Kunti1 , Pa1n2d2u's wife , by the god Dharma or Yama ,
whence he is often called Dharma-putra or Dharma-ra1ja ; he
ultimately succeeded Pa1n2d2u as king , first reigning over Indra-
prastha , and afterwards , when the Kuru princes were defeated , at
Hastina1-pura ; cf. IW. 379 c.) MBh. Hariv. Pur. ; of a son of
Kr2ishn2a Hariv. ; of two kings of Kas3mi1ra Ra1jat. ; of a potter
Pan5cat. ; (with %{maho7pA7dhyAya}) of a preceptor Cat. ; pl. the
descendants of Yudhi-sht2hira (son of Pa1n2d2u) Pa1n2. 2-4 , 66
Sch. ; %{-vijaya} (or %{-dig-v-}) m. N. of a poem by Va1sudeva Parama-
s3iva-yogin of Kerala. [855,2]
When these powers or 'warriors' come to the aid (are unfolded) of
the
chela or 'Arjuna' they fight the evil minded sons of the blind King
Dhritarashtra; lust, greed, avarice and so on.I could go on but
you
get the idea.
The Gita is an alegorical story about the internal battlefield
(kurukshetra) of man and his struggle with evil (delusion) and the
final victory by ascention to Spirit and the destruction of
evil.
Of course, the idea that the Pandavas represen 5 virtues ala Raja Yoga is
impossible. They
have to represent 5 chakras even though Chakra is never mentioned in the Gita
or the
Yoga Sutras and only once in the Upanishads.
OK...
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Of course, I assume that intentional transcending is actually a different physical state than spontaneous transcending, and that the former is an illusion, while the latter is based on a simple physical change in how the brain processes information, as a for example of where I'm coming from. So you're saying, essentially, that the fundamental assumption and bias you bring to any TM research that you participate in is based on the idea of elitism, that TM is unique and better than any other technique, right? Again, thanks for being honest about the level of your TM elitism, but I think that as a result we can safely disregard anything you might discover in conjunction with Fred as actually having anything to do with science. IOW, if my elitism is supported, it can't be because I am right, but only because I'm biased. As you yourself have admitted, scientists have a strong tendency to find what they expect to find. You and people who think like you expect to find positive results for TM and expect to find not-as-positive results for other techniques of meditation. Therefore you will find them. And you'll be surprised when no one believes you... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, the idea that the Pandavas represen 5 virtues ala Raja
Yoga is impossible. They
have to represent 5 chakras even though Chakra is never mentioned
in the Gita or the
Yoga Sutras
Well, actually it is mentioned in the Yoga-suutras, III 30 (29):
naabhi-cakre (locative case form of cakra) kaaya-vyuuha-jñaanam.
And according to Taimni, hRraya (heart) in III 35 refers
to anaahata-cakra (an-aahata):
anAhata mfn. unbeaten , unwounded , intact ; new and unbleached (as
cloth) ; produced otherwise than by beating ; not multiplied ; (%
{am}) n. the fourth of the mystical %{cakras} , or circles of the
body.
2 Ahata mfn. struck , beaten , hit , hurt R. Ragh. Kum. Katha1s.
VarBr2. c. ; fastened , fixed RV. AV. ; beaten , caused to sound (as
a drum c.) MBh. Hariv. Ragh. c. ; crushed , rubbed S3is3. ;
rendered null , destroyed , frustrated BhP. VarBr2S. ; multiplied
VarBr2S. [162,2] ; hit , blunted (said of a Visarga , when changed to
%{o}) Sa1h. ; uttered falsely L. ; known , understood L. ; repeated ,
mentioned L. ; m. a drum L. ; (%{am}) n. old cloth or raiment L. ;
new cloth or clothes L. ; assertion of an impossibility L.
and only once in the Upanishads.
OK...
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And according to Taimni, hRraya (heart) in III 35 refers to anaahata-cakra (an-aahata): Bhoja's comment on that suutra: hRdayaM shariirasya pradesha-visheSas tasminn adhomukha-svalpa- puNDariikaabhyantare 'ntaHkaraNa-sattvasya sthaanaM tatra kRta-saMyamasya sva-para-citta-jñaanam utpadyate. An attempt at translation: Heart (hRdayam) is a special place (pradesha-visheSaH) of the body (shariirasya), there (tasmin) inside (abhyantare) the upside-down(?) (adho-mukha) very small(svalpa) lotus (puNDariika) [is] the place (sthaanam) of the mind-entity (??antaHkaraNa-sattvasya). By doing saMyama (kRta-saMyamasya) there (tatra), there appears (utpadyate) knowledge (jñaanam) of one's own and other peoples' minds (sva- para -citta). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Of course, I assume that intentional transcending is actually a different physical state than spontaneous transcending, and that the former is an illusion, while the latter is based on a simple physical change in how the brain processes information, as a for example of where I'm coming from. So you're saying, essentially, that the fundamental assumption and bias you bring to any TM research that you participate in is based on the idea of elitism, that TM is unique and better than any other technique, right? Again, thanks for being honest about the level of your TM elitism, but I think that as a result we can safely disregard anything you might discover in conjunction with Fred as actually having anything to do with science. IOW, if my elitism is supported, it can't be because I am right, but only because I'm biased. As you yourself have admitted, scientists have a strong tendency to find what they expect to find. You and people who think like you expect to find positive results for TM and expect to find not-as-positive results for other techniques of meditation. Therefore you will find them. And you'll be surprised when no one believes you... Because, of course, those who are truly objective, like Barry, know that those positive results for TM and not-as-positive results for other techniques could not possibly be valid. Whatever a biased person expects to find doesn't exist, by definition. It's really quite simple when you know the rules. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. And the concept of Chakra, at least within the texts I've already mentioned, doesn't go into details such as unblocking them anyway. Shaktipat is used to unblock them. Techniques dealing with Chakras as Chakras don't appear in Indian literature and tradition until 1200 years ago if that. How about in the oral traditions? :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: Of course, I assume that intentional transcending is actually a different physical state than spontaneous transcending, and that the former is an illusion, while the latter is based on a simple physical change in how the brain processes information, as a for example of where I'm coming from. So you're saying, essentially, that the fundamental assumption and bias you bring to any TM research that you participate in is based on the idea of elitism, that TM is unique and better than any other technique, right? Again, thanks for being honest about the level of your TM elitism, but I think that as a result we can safely disregard anything you might discover in conjunction with Fred as actually having anything to do with science. IOW, if my elitism is supported, it can't be because I am right, but only because I'm biased. As you yourself have admitted, scientists have a strong tendency to find what they expect to find. You and people who think like you expect to find positive results for TM and expect to find not-as-positive results for other techniques of meditation. Therefore you will find them. And you'll be surprised when no one believes you... That's whre independent investigatino comes in. No reseasonable researcher expects his pet theory to be taken seriously until its been tested by others. However, brain imaging files that are analyzied after-the-fact looking for a specific theoretical result are not subject to normal researcher biases. Deliberate bias, of course, but not projectiono f results due to expectations. What Fred is doing now is a time-honored way of checking to see if a hypothesis has legs: based on a new theory, what would certain details of already-existing data look like? If you can find those predicted details in the already-collected data, you then go on to design experiments and seek funding to perform them to create new data to analyze. From what Fred says, the pre-existing data supports the theory pretty darned well: brain imaging of TMers from other studies show measureable reductons of thalamic activity during TM. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister no_reply@ wrote: And according to Taimni, hRraya (heart) in III 35 refers to anaahata-cakra (an-aahata): Bhoja's comment on that suutra: hRdayaM shariirasya pradesha-visheSas tasminn adhomukha-svalpa- puNDariikaabhyantare 'ntaHkaraNa-sattvasya sthaanaM tatra kRta-saMyamasya sva-para-citta-jñaanam utpadyate. An attempt at translation: Heart (hRdayam) is a special place (pradesha-visheSaH) of the body (shariirasya), there (tasmin) inside (abhyantare) the upside-down(?) (adho-mukha) very small(svalpa) lotus (puNDariika) [is] the place (sthaanam) of the mind-entity (??antaHkaraNa-sattvasya). By doing saMyama (kRta-saMyamasya) there (tatra), there appears (utpadyate) knowledge (jñaanam) of one's own and other peoples' minds (sva- para -citta). And of course, MMY's commentary on the entire Yoga Sutras is found in the instruction of TM and the TM-Sidhis program. Whoopee. My experience trumps their written commentary, hands down. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
Of course, the idea that the Pandavas represen 5 virtues ala Raja
Yoga is impossible. They
have to represent 5 chakras even though Chakra is never mentioned
in the Gita or the
Yoga Sutras
Well, actually it is mentioned in the Yoga-suutras, III 30 (29):
naabhi-cakre (locative case form of cakra) kaaya-vyuuha-jñaanam.
And according to Taimni, hRraya (heart) in III 35 refers
to anaahata-cakra (an-aahata):
Isn't Taimni a modern commentator? trying to provide support for an
interpretation of an
ancient text by using a modern commentary on the text is well, kinda circular.
The phrase is:
hirdaye chitta samvi
Assuming a meaning and then doing a commentary on that assumption is fine but
YOU
can't use that assumption and commentary to prove that this is a heart chakra
thing.
MMY's exposition of samyama doesn't use this chakra interpretation, for
instance. I believe
his itnerpretation is simpler, and in fact, if it is valid, more complication
interpretations
become suspect automatically.
anAhata mfn. unbeaten , unwounded , intact ; new and unbleached (as
cloth) ; produced otherwise than by beating ; not multiplied ; (%
{am}) n. the fourth of the mystical %{cakras} , or circles of the
body.
2 Ahata mfn. struck , beaten , hit , hurt R. Ragh. Kum. Katha1s.
VarBr2. c. ; fastened , fixed RV. AV. ; beaten , caused to sound (as
a drum c.) MBh. Hariv. Ragh. c. ; crushed , rubbed S3is3. ;
rendered null , destroyed , frustrated BhP. VarBr2S. ; multiplied
VarBr2S. [162,2] ; hit , blunted (said of a Visarga , when changed to
%{o}) Sa1h. ; uttered falsely L. ; known , understood L. ; repeated ,
mentioned L. ; m. a drum L. ; (%{am}) n. old cloth or raiment L. ;
new cloth or clothes L. ; assertion of an impossibility L.
and only once in the Upanishads.
OK...
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. And the concept of Chakra, at least within the texts I've already mentioned, doesn't go into details such as unblocking them anyway. Shaktipat is used to unblock them. Techniques dealing with Chakras as Chakras don't appear in Indian literature and tradition until 1200 years ago if that. How about in the oral traditions? :) how long is that telephone cord? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_%28game%29 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel babajii_99@ wrote: (snip) I take that back. The mention of chakra appears to be descriptive rather than prescriptive (to use Judy's phrase), and there is much of interest in this upanishad for those who think TM is important rather than thinking that you gotta attend to each individual leaf (or chakra). MMY's advice to follow one's own religion appears to satsify most of the rest of the admonitions found or so it appears to TB moi. Yes, could be like that... I have a counselor, whom I've worked with; she concentrates a lot on this notion of chakras; She studied with a woman, who can see auras and such. Her theory is that the soul energy is above the head; And one of the techniques she uses: is to imagine you are looking through the top of your head(like a skylight) into the light of your soul, and allowing this energy to flow down through you, enlivening each chakra as it goes; And then 'ground' the energy through your feet, deep into the earth. In spiritual terms, 'Bringing the energy of Heaven into the earth... Third eye to me has to do with 'seeing' oneness. Our physical eyes can only see separateness, and much of what the eyes see, gives power to the ego; Jesus said, that it would be better to pluck out your physical eyes if they are leading you into sin(lower vibrations)... So, 'seeing' through the third eye, has to do with brain coherence that meditation produces, plus the enlivening of the nervous system, the pituitary gland of the brain; an opening of sorts, in which you have spiritual site, seeing energy, seeing from the soul, auras and such. Each chakra has knowledge in and of itself, and on the level of which it governs... So, for example, an opening of the heart chakra could provide the truth of the heart; as the opening of the throat would provide a powerful and uplifting sound of truth, and likewise, the opening of the third eye, would provide the seeing of light energy, spiritual vision. When full enlightenment occurs, then the soul or the crown chakra is opened, and the soul energy is allowed to be lived in the body, which all of the obstructions removed; This is: 'Soul Realization'; And all of the benefits of knowing and experiencing you as an infinite soul, protected and connected to the All. One has left the 'wheel of karma, so to speak; The goal is to fully experience the soul, while you are here in a body. Does TM in itself provide all of this? Maybe for some it has, maybe for others it hasn't and they needed to seek more. I think Maharishi and the movement, wants to keep the teaching pure, And universal, for the people directly involved; So, that if whomever decides to leave and seek more elsewhere; Then the ones still involved can have the benefit of innocence of the beginner. R.G. Of course, if one loses the innocence of the beginner, is there anything to be gained by this further stuff? I think not and if you keep the innocence of the beginner, there's nothing beyond That anyway. And, as I said, its a Johnny-come-lately on the Vedic scene. MMY deals with the Vedas and Upanaishads and chakra-techniques are nowhere mentioned in those. Good points... But I guess for some people in some traditions, this idea and functions of the chakras are just another path to the goal of enlightenment. If, as you say, these ideas are not contained or dwelled too much upon in the Vedic literature; And as we know, Maharishi considers himself a formost scholar on the Vedas; Then we wouldn't expect him to dwell too much on this non-vedic approach. R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand corrected. He appears to refer to brahmi shakti as the cosmic creative intelligence aka Mother Divine. http://is1.mum.edu/vedicreserve/vedant.htm Rk Veda 1.158.6 Translation: For those () established in the self-referral state of intelligence (), the Cosmic Creative Intelligence, Mother Divine , (Transcendental Consciousness), the self-referral structuring dynamics of Veda the element of Samhita from its self- referral level undertakes to perform anything. Maharishi's Absolute Theory of Government, p. 462 Sunday mornings are so boring, because the stock market is closed, so Here's the entire RV 1.158.6: diirghatamaa maamateyo jujurvaan dashame yuge | apaam arthaM yatiinaam brahmaa bhavati saarathiH || Ralph Griffith's translation as an indication of how many ways Sanskrit verses can be perceived: 6 Dirghatamas the son of Mamata hath come to length of days in the tenth age of human kind. He is the Brahman of the waters as they strive to reach their end and aim: their charioteer is he Maharishi's translation seems to require that one ignore the part before yatiinaaM brahmaa bhavati saarathiH, or at least, that apaam artham is translated to 'for the sake of waters', instead of taking it as belonging together with yatiinaam, as Griffith seems to do. Thus, the phrase structure of the last hemistich can perhaps be at least eiter (apaam artham: because of waters)(yatiinaaM brahmaa bhavati saarathiH); or (apaam artham yatiinaam: of the waters as they strive...)(brahmaa bhavati: [Diirghatamas] becomes Brahman[huh?])(saarathiH: [Diirgha- tamas becomes] the charioteer) (How could I make that even more messy? LOL) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: remember what Christ said, no man cometh unto the Father (Brahman) but thru meie. thur the all seeing 'third' eye. Yep, I'm sure that is what Christ meant: me = 3rd eye. Very snide. :-) However, it does bring up an interesting aside. I've met Tibetan teachers who use an interesting device to teach a certain type of Anahata-centered meditation. They just ask people to think me and point to them- selves. Try it yourself. You didn't point to your third eye, did you? Most people point directly to the center of their chest, right where the heart chakra is, although I'd bet that a few overly intellectual types would point to their heads... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. I honestly think that 1) he doesn't discuss this particular subject (chakras) and many others (the mechanics of what happens between incarnations, how to transmit shakti, how to perceive auras, etc.) because he doesn't know anything about them, 2) that it is *fine* and *appropriate* that he doesn't know anything about them, and 3) that it's a *good idea* that he doesn't say anything about them. Why spread ignorance when so many people are going to listen to it and assume that it's knowledge? Maharishi grew up in a very conservative and mainstream Hindu tradition. They had a lot of things they were knowledgable about, and when he discusses those things, he is on safe ground and is doing his students a service to pass along what he might have learned. But to stray into areas that he never studied (because his tradition didn't study them or consider them important) would be a *disservice* to his students. If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. In my opinion, when you know nothing about a subject, it's better to say nothing about it than to spout a buncha bullshit and *prove* that you know nothing about it. Some posters here, who feel compelled to act as if they know all about things they've never studied (the Google-it-for- five-minutes-and-pretend-you're-an-expert approach) would IMO do better to follow their teacher's example and just stay away from subjects they know nothing about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. I honestly think that 1) he doesn't discuss this particular subject (chakras) and many others (the mechanics of what happens between incarnations, how to transmit shakti, how to perceive auras, etc.) because he doesn't know anything about them, 2) that it is *fine* and *appropriate* that he doesn't know anything about them, and 3) that it's a *good idea* that he doesn't say anything about them. Why spread ignorance when so many people are going to listen to it and assume that it's knowledge? Maharishi grew up in a very conservative and mainstream Hindu tradition. They had a lot of things they were knowledgable about, and when he discusses those things, he is on safe ground and is doing his students a service to pass along what he might have learned. But to stray into areas that he never studied (because his tradition didn't study them or consider them important) would be a *disservice* to his students. If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. In my opinion, when you know nothing about a subject, it's better to say nothing about it than to spout a buncha bullshit and *prove* that you know nothing about it. Some posters here, who feel compelled to act as if they know all about things they've never studied (the Google-it-for- five-minutes-and-pretend-you're-an-expert approach) would IMO do better to follow their teacher's example and just stay away from subjects they know nothing about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. I agree with Bhairitu: Its Shakti. Think of this SCI lecture, where he speaks about, when Awareness becomes aware of itself, then intelligence becomes creative. Here Intelligence is Shiva and Creativity is Shakti. Brahma is more like an executive function, but he can only create because he has Shakti. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Obviously. However, according to what little history I can find on the subject, the chakra system grew out of mention in the Upanishads. The first mention I can find is in chapter 5 of the varaha upanishad and is primarily descriptive, IMHO: http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/varaha.htm CHAPTER - V Then Nidagha asked Lord Ribhu to enlighten him as to the rules (to be observed) in the practice of Yoga. Accordingly He (the Lord) said thus: 1. The body is composed of the five elements. It is filled with five Mandalas (spheres). That which is hard is Prithvi (earth), one of them; that which is liquid is Apas; 2. That which is bright is Tejas (fire); motion is the property of Vayu; that which pervades everywhere is Akasa. All these should be known by an aspirant after Yoga. 3. Through the blowing of Vayu-Mandala in this body, (there are caused) 21,600 breaths every day and night. 4. If there is a diminution in the Prithvi-Mandala, there arise folds in the body; if there is diminution in the essence of Apas, there arises gradually greyness of hair; 5. If there is diminution in the essence of Tejas, there is loss of hunger and lustre; if there is diminution in the essence of Vayu, there is incessant tremor; 6. If there is diminution in the essence of Akasa, one dies. The Jivita (viz., Prana) which possesses these elements having no place to rest (in the body) owing to the diminution of the elements, rises up like birds flying up in the air. 7. It is for this reason that is called Udyana (lit., flying up). With reference to this, there is said to be a Bandha (binding, also meaning a posture called Udyana-Bandha, by which this flight can be arrested). This Udyana-Bandha is to (or does away with) death, as a lion to an elephant. 8. Its experience is in the body, as also the Bandha. Its binding (in the body) is hurtful. If there is agitation of Agni (fire) within the belly, then there will be caused much of pain. 9. Therefore this (Udyana-Bandha) should not be practised by one who is hungry or who has urgency to make water or void excrement. He should take many times in small quantities proper and moderate food. 10. He should practise Mantra-Yoga. Laya-Yoga and Hatha-Yoga, through mild, middling and transcendental methods (or periods) respectively. Laya, Mantra and Hatha- Yogas have each (the same) eight subservients. 11-12(a). They are Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi. 12(b)-13(a). (Of these), Yama is of ten kinds. They are non-injury, truth, non-coveting, continence, compassion, straightforwardness, patience, courage, moderate eating and purity (bodily and mental). 13(b)-14. Niyama is of ten kinds. They are Tapas (religious austerities), contentment, belief in the existence of God or Vedas, charity, worship of Ishvara (or God), listening to the expositions of religious doctrines, modesty, a (good) intellect, Japa (muttering of prayers) and Vrata (religious observances). 15-16. They are eleven postures beginning with Chakra. Chakra, Padma, Kurma, Mayura, Kukkuta, Vira, Svastika, Bhadra, Simha, Mukta and Gomukha are the postures enumerated by the knowers of Yoga. 17. Placing the left ankle on the right thigh and the right ankle on the left thigh and keeping the body erect (while sitting) is the posture Chakra. 18. Pranayama should be practised again and again in the following order, viz., inspiration, restraint of breath and expiration. The Pranayama is done through the Nadis (nerves). Hence it is called the Nadis themselves. 19. The body of every sentient being is ninety-six digits long. In the middle of the body, two digits above the anus and two digits below the sexual organ, is the centre of the body (called Muladhara or sacral plexus). 20-21. Nine digits above the genitals, there is Kanda of Nadis which revolves oval- shaped, four digits high and four digits broad. It is surrounded by fat, flesh, bone and blood. 22. In it, is situate a Nadi-Chakra (wheel of nerves)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. I honestly think that 1) he doesn't discuss this particular subject (chakras) and many others (the mechanics of what happens between incarnations, how to transmit shakti, how to perceive auras, etc.) because he doesn't know anything about them, 2) that it is *fine* and *appropriate* that he doesn't know anything about them, and 3) that it's a *good idea* that he doesn't say anything about them. Why spread ignorance when so many people are going to listen to it and assume that it's knowledge? Maharishi grew up in a very conservative and mainstream Hindu tradition. They had a lot of things they were knowledgable about, and when he discusses those things, he is on safe ground and is doing his students a service to pass along what he might have learned. But to stray into areas that he never studied (because his tradition didn't study them or consider them important) would be a *disservice* to his students. If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. In my opinion, when you know nothing about a subject, it's better to say nothing about it than to spout a buncha bullshit and *prove* that you know nothing about it. Some posters here, who feel compelled to act as if they know all about things they've never studied (the Google-it-for- five-minutes-and-pretend-you're-an-expert approach) would IMO do better to follow their teacher's example and just stay away from subjects they know nothing about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. I agree with Bhairitu: Its Shakti. Think of this SCI lecture, where he speaks about, when Awareness becomes aware of itself, then intelligence becomes creative. Here Intelligence is Shiva and Creativity is Shakti. Brahma is more like an executive function, but he can only create because he has Shakti. Actually, it's when conscousness becomes conscious, intelligence becomes intelligent, but I agree, shakti appears to be the sanskrit he translates as creative intelligence. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In the early days, MMY was taslking about Kundalini, chakras, doing Puja to Shiva - as he did last winter. He was much more open about these things before. Ingegerd In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Obviously. However, according to what little history I can find on the subject, the chakra system grew out of mention in the Upanishads. The first mention I can find is in chapter 5 of the varaha upanishad and is primarily descriptive, IMHO: http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/varaha.htm CHAPTER - V Then Nidagha asked Lord Ribhu to enlighten him as to the rules (to be observed) in the practice of Yoga. Accordingly He (the Lord) said thus: 1. The body is composed of the five elements. It is filled with five Mandalas (spheres). That which is hard is Prithvi (earth), one of them; that which is liquid is Apas; 2. That which is bright is Tejas (fire); motion is the property of Vayu; that which pervades everywhere is Akasa. All these should be known by an aspirant after Yoga. 3. Through the blowing of Vayu-Mandala in this body, (there are caused) 21,600 breaths every day and night. 4. If there is a diminution in the Prithvi-Mandala, there arise folds in the body; if there is diminution in the essence of Apas, there arises gradually greyness of hair; 5. If there is diminution in the essence of Tejas, there is loss of hunger and lustre; if there is diminution in the essence of Vayu, there is incessant tremor; 6. If there is diminution in the essence of Akasa, one dies. The Jivita (viz., Prana) which possesses these elements having no place to rest (in the body) owing to the diminution of the elements, rises up like birds flying up in the air. 7. It is for this reason that is called Udyana (lit., flying up). With reference to this, there is said to be a Bandha (binding, also meaning a posture called Udyana- Bandha, by which this flight can be arrested). This Udyana-Bandha is to (or does away with) death, as a lion to an elephant. 8. Its experience is in the body, as also the Bandha. Its binding (in the body) is hurtful. If there is agitation of Agni (fire) within the belly, then there will be caused much of pain. 9. Therefore this (Udyana-Bandha) should not be practised by one who is hungry or who has urgency to make water or void excrement. He should take many times in small quantities proper and moderate food. 10. He should practise Mantra-Yoga. Laya-Yoga and Hatha-Yoga, through mild, middling and transcendental methods (or periods) respectively. Laya, Mantra and Hatha- Yogas have each (the same) eight subservients. 11-12(a). They are Yama, Niyama, Asana, Pranayama, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana and Samadhi. 12(b)-13(a). (Of these), Yama is of ten kinds. They are non- injury, truth, non-coveting, continence, compassion, straightforwardness, patience, courage, moderate eating and purity (bodily and mental). 13(b)-14. Niyama is of ten kinds. They are Tapas (religious austerities), contentment, belief in the existence of God or Vedas, charity, worship of Ishvara (or God), listening to the expositions of religious doctrines, modesty, a (good) intellect, Japa (muttering of prayers) and Vrata (religious observances). 15-16. They are eleven postures beginning with Chakra. Chakra, Padma, Kurma, Mayura, Kukkuta, Vira, Svastika, Bhadra, Simha, Mukta and Gomukha are the postures enumerated by the knowers of Yoga. 17. Placing the left ankle on the right thigh and the right ankle on the left thigh and keeping the body erect (while sitting) is the posture Chakra. 18. Pranayama should be practised again and again in the following order, viz., inspiration, restraint of breath and expiration. The Pranayama is done through the Nadis (nerves). Hence it is called the Nadis themselves. 19. The body of every sentient being is ninety-six digits long. In the middle of the body, two digits above the anus and two digits below the
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. I agree with Bhairitu: Its Shakti. Think of this SCI lecture, where he speaks about, when Awareness becomes aware of itself, then intelligence becomes creative. Here Intelligence is Shiva and Creativity is Shakti. Brahma is more like an executive function, but he can only create because he has Shakti. Actually, it's when conscousness becomes conscious, intelligence becomes intelligent, but I agree, shakti appears to be the sanskrit he translates as creative intelligence. I agree. Shiva is the infinite silence of pure consciousness and Shakti is the movement of That infinity within its own silence. You could also argue that creative intelligence = devas (which in its totality is shakti). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. It was thinking the mantra in a certain area of the body. It is one of the last advanced techniques. I can see why the term chakra was not used because chakra for most people is just a concept that could confuse things. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. I honestly think that 1) he doesn't discuss this particular subject (chakras) and many others (the mechanics of what happens between incarnations, how to transmit shakti, how to perceive auras, etc.) because he doesn't know anything about them, 2) that it is *fine* and *appropriate* that he doesn't know anything about them, and 3) that it's a *good idea* that he doesn't say anything about them. Why spread ignorance when so many people are going to listen to it and assume that it's knowledge? Maharishi grew up in a very conservative and mainstream Hindu tradition. They had a lot of things they were knowledgable about, and when he discusses those things, he is on safe ground and is doing his students a service to pass along what he might have learned. But to stray into areas that he never studied (because his tradition didn't study them or consider them important) would be a *disservice* to his students. If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. In my opinion, when you know nothing about a subject, it's better to say nothing about it than to spout a buncha bullshit and *prove* that you know nothing about it. Some posters here, who feel compelled to act as if they know all about things they've never studied (the Google-it-for- five-minutes-and-pretend-you're-an-expert approach) would IMO do better to follow their teacher's example and just stay away from subjects they know nothing about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. I agree with Bhairitu: Its Shakti. Think of this SCI lecture, where he speaks about, when Awareness becomes aware of itself, then intelligence becomes creative. Here Intelligence is Shiva and Creativity is Shakti. Brahma is more like an executive function, but he can only create because he has Shakti. Actually, it's when conscousness becomes conscious, intelligence becomes intelligent, but I agree, shakti appears to be the sanskrit he translates as creative intelligence. I agree. Shiva is the infinite silence of pure consciousness and Shakti is the movement of That infinity within its own silence. You could also argue that creative intelligence = devas (which in its totality is shakti). Yes. The more up to date phrase would be 'infinite organizing-power of natural law' for Shakti. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. It was thinking the mantra in a certain area of the body. It is one of the last advanced techniques. I can see why the term chakra was not used because chakra for most people is just a concept that could confuse things. I also got it that way. There is certainly an advanced technique were you have to have your attention at a certain area. If it's the exact location of the (heart)-chakra is another question. I was pointed to an anatomical spot, that is not normally considered to be the heart center, but its close enough. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Me, too. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). My experience also. That's one reason I wrote what I wrote. There were a lot of things considered off the program in the tradition they grew up in, and you can actually see them bristle and get uptight when someone brings these subjects up. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. I honestly think that 1) he doesn't discuss this particular subject (chakras) and many others (the mechanics of what happens between incarnations, how to transmit shakti, how to perceive auras, etc.) because he doesn't know anything about them, 2) that it is *fine* and *appropriate* that he doesn't know anything about them, and 3) that it's a *good idea* that he doesn't say anything about them. Why spread ignorance when so many people are going to listen to it and assume that it's knowledge? Maharishi grew up in a very conservative and mainstream Hindu tradition. They had a lot of things they were knowledgable about, and when he discusses those things, he is on safe ground and is doing his students a service to pass along what he might have learned. But to stray into areas that he never studied (because his tradition didn't study them or consider them important) would be a *disservice* to his students. If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. In my opinion, when you know nothing about a subject, it's better to say nothing about it than to spout a buncha bullshit and *prove* that you know nothing about it. Some posters here, who feel compelled to act as if they know all about things they've never studied (the Google-it-for- five-minutes-and-pretend-you're-an-expert approach) would IMO do better to follow their teacher's example and just stay away from subjects they know nothing about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. As I'm sure many people here would tell you, you just *missed* that particular advanced technique, given out in the late 60s/early 70s. I received it -- from Sattyanand -- at that time, and from what I can tell from things said here and on a.m.t., it is no longer given out. But it *is* just like you to assume that because *you* are ignorant of something from the TMO's past, that the person who *isn't* ignorant of it is lying or mistaken. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip [I quoted from Wikipedia:] In Hinduism and in some related Asian cultures, a chakra is thought to be a nexus of metaphysical and/or biophysical energy residing in the human body MMY calls these marmas and thinks there are about 108 of them IIRC. Of these 3 are most important. Just because the description is vaguely similar, I don't think that means chakras are what MMY calls marmas. Marmas are more like acupuncture or acupressure points. Chinese medicine has its own version of chakras (related to but not the same as acupuncture points), as do Kaballah and Sufism. snip . Know the wakeful state to have for its centre the eyes; the dreaming state should be assigned to the throat; the state of dreamless sleep is in the heart; and the transcendental state is in the crown of the head. Given the entire rest of the upanishad exorts one to go beyond all this stuff via TM (dhyan), it seems silly to create an entire spiritual system based on what appear to be throwaway verses. For the record, the only point I was making is that the chakra notion didn't originate with Tibetan Buddhism but was associated with yoga (albeit, as you note, not per Patanjali) and was developed in the context of tantra. My impression is (and I could well be wrong) that Western New Age theorists and practitioners picked up on the chakra idea from Theosophy and made rather a bigger deal of it than it may have warranted from its original context. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I think you hit the nail on the head, MMY simplified everything and made it more appealing to a world wide audience..hence you see a dope like me meditating. The question remains, however, does TM bring one to the 'spinal highway', the way home to Spirit? After all, it was the path of descent into relativity and must therefore be the path to reascend again to Spirit. I think it does, but that and a buck won't get you a cup of coffee! Judy is right about marmas, not the same as chakras, acu points, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. Ha, haI enjoyed this and your posts below, I think you may have something here! Although, it does leave one a little insecure as I do believe Kundalini and Chakras are central to understanding Yoga and instrumental in achieving 'Yoga'. Although I will continue to do TM as it has 'enlightened' me and made me what MMY calls a 'knower of reality', albiet, a ways to go. :-) BillyG. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. I honestly think that 1) he doesn't discuss this particular subject (chakras) and many others (the mechanics of what happens between incarnations, how to transmit shakti, how to perceive auras, etc.) because he doesn't know anything about them, 2) that it is *fine* and *appropriate* that he doesn't know anything about them, and 3) that it's a *good idea* that he doesn't say anything about them. Why spread ignorance when so many people are going to listen to it and assume that it's knowledge? Maharishi grew up in a very conservative and mainstream Hindu tradition. They had a lot of things they were knowledgable about, and when he discusses those things, he is on safe ground and is doing his students a service to pass along what he might have learned. But to stray into areas that he never studied (because his tradition didn't study them or consider them important) would be a *disservice* to his students. If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. In my opinion, when you know nothing about a subject, it's better to say nothing about it than to spout a buncha bullshit and *prove* that you know nothing about it. Some posters here, who feel compelled to act as if they know all about things they've never studied (the Google-it-for- five-minutes-and-pretend-you're-an-expert approach) would IMO do better to follow their teacher's example and just stay away from subjects they know nothing about. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. snip If you think I'm wrong about this, try to remember when he *has* talked about other spir- itual traditions, like the times he's conveyed complete and total misinformation about Subud, about Scientology, and about Christianity. In every case, one or more of his students cornered him into talking about something he knew nothing about except some misinformation that he'd heard along the way, and he passed along that misinfor- mation as if it were true. Why, *of course* it's not anti-TM (or anti-MMY). How could anybody think accusing MMY of talking about something he knew nothing about and getting it wrong was anti-MMY? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. snip Why, *of course* it's not anti-TM (or anti-MMY). How could anybody think accusing MMY of talking about something he knew nothing about and getting it wrong was anti-MMY? Ha, ha,on the other hand, can you prove any different? Turq. could be right, yes? That's the problem, we really don't know, MMY has left us in the dark on this, central to Yoga, subject; maybe it's justified, I guess I'll just continue to meditate. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. snip Why, *of course* it's not anti-TM (or anti-MMY). How could anybody think accusing MMY of talking about something he knew nothing about and getting it wrong was anti-MMY? Ha, ha,on the other hand, can you prove any different? Turq. could be right, yes? Of course. That wasn't my point. That's the problem, we really don't know, MMY has left us in the dark on this, central to Yoga, subject; maybe it's justified, I guess I'll just continue to meditate. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip What the hell is this third eye and why do you think it is important? The third eye is the portal to infinity, that's why it's important! Unfolding of the chakras unfold powers of morality, self control, chastity, descrimination, etc. That is why we meditate, and the unfolding of the chakras is the methodology from which we get these powers and win the battle of life, (i.e. good over evil). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
TurquoiseB wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
MMY calls these marmas and thinks there are about 108 of them IIRC. Of these 3 are most important. 107 as I recall from working with an indian who trained for many years in the tradition that maintains the knowledge of marmas in southern India. Danur Veda. And one hidden one. (thus 108) - I missed the bulk of this thread. There is no way MMY is confusing marmas with chakras. Regarding some past posts on why chakras are not part of TMO teachings, MMY was very clear on that. He said that he decided early on not to talk of chakras, kundalini etc. because he looked to past teachers and movements that had done so and did not find the results very impressive. He wanted to take a different road. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)? on 9/3/06 2:19 PM, Bhairitu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. Ill bet Maharishi knows plenty about the chakras and has had clear experiences of them, but he tended to avoid talking about physiological things that couldnt be explored by Western scientists. Like the dual nervous system idea which he used to talk about, but dropped around 1970. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/3/06 2:19 PM, Bhairitu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. I¹ll bet Maharishi knows plenty about the chakras and has had clear experiences of them, but he tended to avoid talking about physiological things that couldn¹t be explored by Western scientists. Like the dual nervous system idea which he used to talk about, but dropped around 1970. On my TTC (LaAntilla, 1972) someone asked MMY about chakras and he laughed and said they go round and round. He talked a little about kundalini yoga and said it was a legitimate path but required a lot of personal attention from a master. He concluded with saying with TM we don't have to worry about chakras. Now, my take: Chakras are just part of the subtle nervous system along with nadis. You can experience energy flowing through various nadis when you're very still. Also attention enlivens various chakras. TMer's have huge ajna chakras probably from all the mental techniques we do. If you want to go on a fun trip, place your attention on your ajna chakra (third eye) and your attention will be pulled through it into different lokas (worlds). I sh*t you not. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, t3rinity [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: --- sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. It was thinking the mantra in a certain area of the body. It is one of the last advanced techniques. I can see why the term chakra was not used because chakra for most people is just a concept that could confuse things. I also got it that way. There is certainly an advanced technique were you have to have your attention at a certain area. If it's the exact location of the (heart)-chakra is another question. I was pointed to an anatomical spot, that is not normally considered to be the heart center, but its close enough. As I said, I remember teh exact instruction to the word, and it isnt' what you guys think it is. Amazing how knowledge of other traditios colors one's memories. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. It was thinking the mantra in a certain area of the body. It is one of the last advanced techniques. I can see why the term chakra was not used because chakra for most people is just a concept that could confuse things. Huh. Not going to get into a pissing contest about advanced techniques since I've only had about 4 so far, but the one that I have learned that MIGHT be confused with what you say, isn't really anything at all like what you say. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason premanandpaul@ wrote: When I spent some time with Brahmachari Sattyanand he gave me an advanced technique which involves paying attention to the mantra in a particular location. Being in India, with an Indian, in an Indian ashram, I asked him if he meant in the vicinity of the soso chakra, but he soon made it very clear he had no patience for any mention of chakras and left it at that. He did not say why, but I suspect it is for the very reasons that Turq gives, that it was off his map (which is a very good reason not to embark on a dissertation about them). Sounds to me like projection. I remember quite explicitly the exact wording of my advanced technique instruction (acting traing comes in handy at times) and there wasn't anything like pay attention to the mantra in a certain location. I can certainly see why, if you were expecting something chakra-ish, you would misremember what you were told, but it is certainly not what I was told and I doubt if you were told that either. As I'm sure many people here would tell you, you just *missed* that particular advanced technique, given out in the late 60s/early 70s. I received it -- from Sattyanand -- at that time, and from what I can tell from things said here and on a.m.t., it is no longer given out. But it *is* just like you to assume that because *you* are ignorant of something from the TMO's past, that the person who *isn't* ignorant of it is lying or mistaken. It may well be a different technique, but I suspect not, given what others have said. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip Before anyone freaks out and considers this anti-TM, it's not. snip Why, *of course* it's not anti-TM (or anti-MMY). How could anybody think accusing MMY of talking about something he knew nothing about and getting it wrong was anti-MMY? Ha, ha,on the other hand, can you prove any different? Turq. could be right, yes? That's the problem, we really don't know, MMY has left us in the dark on this, central to Yoga, subject; maybe it's justified, I guess I'll just continue to meditate. But it is NOT central to Yoga, as defined by Patanjali, the Bhagavad Gita, and the Upanishads. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip What the hell is this third eye and why do you think it is important? The third eye is the portal to infinity, that's why it's important! Unfolding of the chakras unfold powers of morality, self control, chastity, descrimination, etc. That is why we meditate, and the unfolding of the chakras is the methodology from which we get these powers and win the battle of life, (i.e. good over evil). So, when does this concept appear? It's not in the Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita or Yoga Sutras. Where is it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MMY calls these marmas and thinks there are about 108 of them IIRC. Of these 3 are most important. 107 as I recall from working with an indian who trained for many years in the tradition that maintains the knowledge of marmas in southern India. Danur Veda. And one hidden one. (thus 108) - I missed the bulk of this thread. There is no way MMY is confusing marmas with chakras. Regarding some past posts on why chakras are not part of TMO teachings, MMY was very clear on that. He said that he decided early on not to talk of chakras, kundalini etc. because he looked to past teachers and movements that had done so and did not find the results very impressive. He wanted to take a different road. Ironically, nearly everyone here is unimpressed with HIS results. Except moi, apparently. Of course, I assume that intentional transcending is actually a different physical state than spontaneous transcending, and that the former is an illusion, while the latter is based on a simple physical change in how the brain processes information, as a for example of where I'm coming from. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TurquoiseB wrote: Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. And the concept of Chakra, at least within the texts I've already mentioned, doesn't go into details such as unblocking them anyway. Techniques dealing with Chakras as Chakras don't appear in Indian literature and tradition until 1200 years ago if that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 9/3/06 2:19 PM, Bhairitu at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haven't any of you guys considered the obvious? He doesn't speak about chakras (and thousands of other spiritual subjects) because he doesn't know anything about them. If you want to know about such things, go to the spiritual traditions that have studied them for centuries. His obviously didn't. No because chakras are pretty basic stuff in Indian philosophy and MMY would have had to grow up in Topeka if he didn't know about them. Besides Ingegerd already said he talked about them in the early days. However in teaching meditation you usually don't deal with the chakras unless someone has one blocked. I¹ll bet Maharishi knows plenty about the chakras and has had clear experiences of them, but he tended to avoid talking about physiological things that couldn¹t be explored by Western scientists. Like the dual nervous system idea which he used to talk about, but dropped around 1970. MMY has said he is interested in Vedic stuff. Kundalini Yoga/Chakra techniques are generally considered non-Vedic by most scholars, or so I have heard. BTW, the description of chakras in the upanishads calls them a wheel of nerves with 12 spokes, but says it lies at the base of the spine at the BOTTOM. In fact, the wheel of nerves with 12 spokes is at the top of the spine, at the base of the brain. It's called the cranial nerves. There's one set for each hemisphere. http://www.neurophys.com/EMG/Cranial_Nerves/ And there's a set of nerves for the heart, the head, the senses, digestive system, etc. Hmmm... Someone got up and down confused, I think: 20-21. Nine digits above the genitals, there is Kanda of Nadis which revolves oval- shaped, four digits high and four digits broad. It is surrounded by fat, flesh, bone and blood. 22. In it, is situate a Nadi-Chakra (wheel of nerves) having twelve spokes. Kundali by which this body is supported is there. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The third eye is the portal to infinity, that's why it's important! Unfolding of the chakras unfold powers of morality, self control, chastity, descrimination, etc. That is why we meditate, and the unfolding of the chakras is the methodology from which we get these powers and win the battle of life, (i.e. good over evil). So, when does this concept appear? It's not in the Upanishads, Bhagavad Gita or Yoga Sutras. Where is it? In the Bhagavad Gita it is referred to allegorically (as that is what the Gita is, an allegory) as the 5 Pandavas which represent the 5 lower chakras: Sahadeva=coccyx center=restraint (muladhara chakra). Nakula=sacral center=obedience (svadhishthana chakra) Arjuna=lumbar=Self control (manipura chakra) Bhima=dorsal=vitality (anahata) Yudisthira=cervical=calmness (vishuddha) When these powers or 'warriors' come to the aid (are unfolded) of the chela or 'Arjuna' they fight the evil minded sons of the blind King Dhritarashtra; lust, greed, avarice and so on.I could go on but you get the idea. The Gita is an alegorical story about the internal battlefield (kurukshetra) of man and his struggle with evil (delusion) and the final victory by ascention to Spirit and the destruction of evil. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've only been meditating for 37 years (TM govenor/Siddha...in poor standing)and don't really know...any takers? BillyG. (previous subject line cut off) Hi, I think yes, it probably is, though I had such an experience long before gaining enlightenment. The reason I say probably is that it seems like such a normal and necessary part of functioning once liberation is attained. Performance of the TM-Sidhis really hastened the experience for me. What has your experience been? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: I've only been meditating for 37 years (TM govenor/Siddha...in poor standing)and don't really know...any takers? BillyG. (previous subject line cut off) Hi, I think yes, it probably is, though I had such an experience long before gaining enlightenment. The reason I say probably is that it seems like such a normal and necessary part of functioning once liberation is attained. Performance of the TM-Sidhis really hastened the experience for me. What has your experience been? I have never seen the Ajna Chakra or any other for that matter, but my understanding it is essential as the 'spinal highway' is the only way back to Spirit. (Brahman). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: I've only been meditating for 37 years (TM govenor/Siddha...in poor standing)and don't really know...any takers? BillyG. (previous subject line cut off) Hi, I think yes, it probably is, though I had such an experience long before gaining enlightenment. The reason I say probably is that it seems like such a normal and necessary part of functioning once liberation is attained. Performance of the TM-Sidhis really hastened the experience for me. What has your experience been? I have never seen the Ajna Chakra or any other for that matter, but my understanding it is essential as the 'spinal highway' is the only way back to Spirit. (Brahman). Not sure I understand all of what you said- all I can say is that when the third eye opens (a very weird expression by the way...) the ability is gained to see all manner of things without the optic machinery of the eyes, although such sights are still like any other picture, with dimension, shape, color, etc. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure I understand all of what you said- all I can say is that when the third eye opens (a very weird expression by the way...) the ability is gained to see all manner of things without the optic machinery of the eyes, although such sights are still like any other picture, with dimension, shape, color, etc. Jim-The 'third' or all seeing eye opens up the 'vision' and conscious awareness of God immanent in creation as the Creator, not bad, wouldn't you sa. But like you said, without the optic machinery of the eyes, remember what Christ said, no man cometh unto the Father (Brahman) but thru meie. thur the all seeing 'third' eye. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Not sure I understand all of what you said- all I can say is that when the third eye opens (a very weird expression by the way...) the ability is gained to see all manner of things without the optic machinery of the eyes, although such sights are still like any other picture, with dimension, shape, color, etc. Jim-The 'third' or all seeing eye opens up the 'vision' and conscious awareness of God immanent in creation as the Creator, not bad, wouldn't you sa. But like you said, without the optic machinery of the eyes, remember what Christ said, no man cometh unto the Father (Brahman) but thru meie. thur the all seeing 'third' eye. OK- makes sense. Thank you for sharing this with me. I have not really thought about the relationship of this all seeing experience and Brahman, and what you have shared helps me build a fuller picture in my awareness. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Not sure I understand all of what you said- all I can say is that when the third eye opens (a very weird expression by the way...) the ability is gained to see all manner of things without the optic machinery of the eyes, although such sights are still like any other picture, with dimension, shape, color, etc. Jim-The 'third' or all seeing eye opens up the 'vision' and conscious awareness of God immanent in creation as the Creator, not bad, wouldn't you sa. But like you said, without the optic machinery of the eyes, remember what Christ said, no man cometh unto the Father (Brahman) but thru meie. thur the all seeing 'third' eye. Yep, I'm sure that is what Christ meant: me = 3rd eye. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yep, I'm sure that is what Christ meant: me = 3rd eye. Yes, as Christ is *the only begotten* of the Father and is God immanent IN creation (formless Christ or Buddhic plane of consciousness, the one life, the one soul) one must unfold that 'kosha' or bliss covering before on can merge into Brahman or Samadhi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Not sure I understand all of what you said- all I can say is that when the third eye opens (a very weird expression by the way...) the ability is gained to see all manner of things without the optic machinery of the eyes, although such sights are still like any other picture, with dimension, shape, color, etc. Jim-The 'third' or all seeing eye opens up the 'vision' and conscious awareness of God immanent in creation as the Creator, not bad, wouldn't you sa. But like you said, without the optic machinery of the eyes, remember what Christ said, no man cometh unto the Father (Brahman) but thru meie. thur the all seeing 'third' eye. Yep, I'm sure that is what Christ meant: me = 3rd eye. me=3rd eye=Kevin Bacon To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I'm not sure why MMY does not mention opening of the spiritual astral/causal third eye, but it might be because it smacks of Religion and Hinduism, and of course, we all know TM isn't a Religion, God forbid. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. Apparently not to MMY... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I'm not sure why MMY does not mention opening of the spiritual astral/causal third eye, but it might be because it smacks of Religion and Hinduism, and of course, we all know TM isn't a Religion, God forbid. Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. Apparently not to MMY... Quick google search yields little about chakras as spiritual thingies. There are wheels mentioned, but not spiritual nexi specifical called chakras. This appears to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, and as such, wouldn't enter into MMY's vocabulary. Paul? How much did Gurudev say about chakras and kundilini, for that matter? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I'm not sure why MMY does not mention opening of the spiritual astral/causal third eye, but it might be because it smacks of Religion and Hinduism, and of course, we all know TM isn't a Religion, God forbid. Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) So what is the historical connection between Raja Yoga and chakras/kundilini? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. I don't think you're going to have enlightenment without the opening of the third eye. So it is rather essential BUT happens due to practicing meditation. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) As I said earlier, MMY's focus is on what he considers the vedic tradition. The yoga sutras of patanjali are rather late in the game for that. Here's a somewhat questionable discussion of chakras and kundilini. It seems to suggest that this stuff, as expoused today, didn't appear in Hindu thought unil the 7th Century AD. I'm also not sure which Upanishads mention 7 chakras ala today's system. I believe that MMY only recognizes the 108 Upanishads so anything left out of them be something he would be less interested in discussing, especially if Gurudev never mentioned them in his hearing: http://www.sacredcenters.com/articles/chakrahistory.html There is some mention of the chakras as psychic centers of consciousness in the Yoga Upanishads (circa 600A.D.) and later in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali (circa 200 B.C.). Patanjali's tradition was largely dualistic, however, stating that nature and spirit were separate, and that the goal of yoga was to rise above nature. The chakras and Kundalini came to be an integral part of yoga philosophy in the non-dual Tantric tradition, which arose in the 7th century, in reaction to the dualist philosophy which preceded it. This tradition advised being in the world rather than separate from it. Tantra is commonly thought of in the West as primarily a sexual tradition, as Tantrism does put sexuality in a sacred context. Yet this is actually only a small part of a broad philosophy which includes many practices of yoga, worship of deities, especially the Hindu goddesses, and integration of the many polaric forces in the universe. The main text about chakras that has come to us in the West is a translation by the Englishman, Arthur Avalon, in his book,The Serpent Power published in 1919. These texts: the Sat-Cakra-Nirupana, written by an Indian pundit in 1577, and the Padaka-Pancaka, written in the 10th century, contain descriptions of the centers and related practices. There is also another 10th century text, called the Gorakshashatakam, which gives instructions for meditating on the chakras. These texts form the basis of our understanding of chakra theory and Kundalini yoga today. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Quick google search yields little about chakras as spiritual thingies. There are wheels mentioned, but not spiritual nexi specifical called chakras. This appears to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, ? In Hinduism and in some related Asian cultures, a chakra is thought to be a nexus of metaphysical and/or biophysical energy residing in the human body The chakras are described in the tantric texts the Sat-Cakra- Nirupana, and the Padaka-Pancaka, in which they are described as emanations of consciousness from Brahman, an energy emanating from the spiritual which gradually turns concrete, creating these distinct levels of chakras, and which eventually finds its rest in the Muladhara chakra. They are therefore part of an emanationist theory, like that of the kabbalah in the west, lataif-e-sitta in Sufism or neo-platonism. The energy that was unleashed in creation, called the Kundalini, lies coiled and sleeping at the base of the spine. It is the purpose of the tantric or kundalini forms of yoga to arouse this energy, and cause it to rise back up through the increasingly subtler chakras, until union with God is achieved in the Sahasrara chakra at the crown of the head The earliest known mention of chakras is found in the later Upanishads, including specifically the Brahma Upanishad and the Yogatattva Upanishad. These vedic models were adapted in Tibetan Buddhism as Vajrayana theory, and in the Tantric Shakta theory of chakras. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra The word chakra comes from the Sanskrit word for wheel or disk and originated within the philosophy of the ancient yoga systems of India, most specifically from the Tantric texts. In this system, there are seven major chakras arranged vertically along the spine, starting at the base of the spine and ending at the top of the head. In the physical body, these seven chakras correspond to major nerve ganglia, glands of the endocrine system, and various bodily processes, such as breathing, digesting, or procreating. http://www.llewellynencyclopedia.com/article.php?id=249 Paul? How much did Gurudev say about chakras and kundilini, for that matter? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. I don't think you're going to have enlightenment without the opening of the third eye. So it is rather essential BUT happens due to practicing meditation. :) What the hell is this third eye and why do you think it is important? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I'm not sure why MMY does not mention opening of the spiritual astral/causal third eye, but it might be because it smacks of Religion and Hinduism, and of course, we all know TM isn't a Religion, God forbid. Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. I don't think you're going to have enlightenment without the opening of the third eye. So it is rather essential BUT happens due to practicing meditation. :) I agree opening of the third eye is essential- I was referring to knowledge of the chakras. I know virtually nothing about them, though I do recall being clearly aware of when they opened- (especially the crown- Wow!) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wmurphy77 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip Or perhaps because chakras are grafted on after the vedic stuff he DOES consider important? Maharishi mentions marmas, and not chakras. In all fairness to MMY, I don't think he wanted to open a pandora's box with this more esoteric stuff, who knows, I may not be a meditator now if he did. He wants to broden his appeal not lessen it, afterall.I don't hold it against him, although it would be reassuring if he did explain it from our (TM) point of view. :-) I agree- I think Maharishi wants to give us enough that we may quickly reach our goal, but no more than is necessary. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Quick google search yields little about chakras as spiritual thingies. There are wheels mentioned, but not spiritual nexi specifical called chakras. This appears to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, ? Sorry, meant as VEDIC spiritual thingies. Patanjali says very little about them, just as he does about kundilini. In Hinduism and in some related Asian cultures, a chakra is thought to be a nexus of metaphysical and/or biophysical energy residing in the human body MMY calls these marmas and thinks there are about 108 of them IIRC. Of these 3 are most important. The chakras are described in the tantric texts the Sat-Cakra- Nirupana, and the Padaka-Pancaka, in which they are described as emanations of consciousness from Brahman, an energy emanating from the spiritual which gradually turns concrete, creating these distinct levels of chakras, and which eventually finds its rest in the Muladhara chakra. They are therefore part of an emanationist theory, like that of the kabbalah in the west, lataif-e-sitta in Sufism or neo-platonism. The energy that was unleashed in creation, called the Kundalini, lies coiled and sleeping at the base of the spine. It is the purpose of the tantric or kundalini forms of yoga to arouse this energy, and cause it to rise back up through the increasingly subtler chakras, until union with God is achieved in the Sahasrara chakra at the crown of the head The earliest known mention of chakras is found in the later Upanishads, including specifically the Brahma Upanishad and the Yogatattva Upanishad. These vedic models were adapted in Tibetan Buddhism as Vajrayana theory, and in the Tantric Shakta theory of chakras. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra Hmmm: Anyone spot chakra or wheel or kundilini or anything like that here? http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/yogatattva.htm Or here? http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/brahmaup.htm If these are considered the places where chakra is first mentioned, it is in very allegorical form indeed--or the translation is really lousy (or my ability to use a text search is!). Ah . Know the wakeful state to have for its centre the eyes; the dreaming state should be assigned to the throat; the state of dreamless sleep is in the heart; and the transcendental state is in the crown of the head. Given the entire rest of the upanishad exorts one to go beyond all this stuff via TM (dhyan), it seems silly to create an entire spiritual system based on what appear to be throwaway verses. BTW, here's the hopping like a frog reference, from the yogattva upanishad: 54. As a frog moves by leaps, so the Yogin sitting in the Padma posture moves on the earth. With a (further) increased practice, he is able to rise from the ground. 55. He, while seated in Padma posture, levitates. There arises to him the power to perform extraordinary feats. 56. He does (or should) not disclose to others his feats of great powers (in the path). Any pain small or great, does not affect the Yogin. The word chakra comes from the Sanskrit word for wheel or disk and originated within the philosophy of the ancient yoga systems of India, most specifically from the Tantric texts. In this system, there are seven major chakras arranged vertically along the spine, starting at the base of the spine and ending at the top of the head. In the physical body, these seven chakras correspond to major nerve ganglia, glands of the endocrine system, and various bodily processes, such as breathing, digesting, or procreating. http://www.llewellynencyclopedia.com/article.php?id=249 Paul? How much did Gurudev say about chakras and kundilini, for that matter? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Quick google search yields little about chakras as spiritual thingies. There are wheels mentioned, but not spiritual nexi specifical called chakras. This appears to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, ? In Hinduism and in some related Asian cultures, a chakra is thought to be a nexus of metaphysical and/or biophysical energy residing in the human body The chakras are described in the tantric texts the Sat-Cakra- Nirupana, and the Padaka-Pancaka, in which they are described as emanations of consciousness from Brahman, an energy emanating from the spiritual which gradually turns concrete, creating these distinct levels of chakras, and which eventually finds its rest in the Muladhara chakra. They are therefore part of an emanationist theory, like that of the kabbalah in the west, lataif-e-sitta in Sufism or neo-platonism. The energy that was unleashed in creation, called the Kundalini, lies coiled and sleeping at the base of the spine. It is the purpose of the tantric or kundalini forms of yoga to arouse this energy, and cause it to rise back up through the increasingly subtler chakras, until union with God is achieved in the Sahasrara chakra at the crown of the head The earliest known mention of chakras is found in the later Upanishads, including specifically the Brahma Upanishad and the Yogatattva Upanishad. These vedic models were adapted in Tibetan Buddhism as Vajrayana theory, and in the Tantric Shakta theory of chakras. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra As is often the case, wiki appears to be wrong. The following is where chakra appears upanishads as is commonly thought of in the chakra/kundilini system. As is often the case with the topsy-turvy world of Hindu thought, the latter unpanishad appears to be more primitive and convluted than the earlier one. Of course, the earlier one emphasises TM while this one doesn't mention it at all: http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/varaha.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I'm not sure why MMY does not mention opening of the spiritual astral/causal third eye, but it might be because it smacks of Religion and Hinduism, and of course, we all know TM isn't a Religion, God forbid. Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. I think you're wrong there or don't know what shakti is. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. I don't think you're going to have enlightenment without the opening of the third eye. So it is rather essential BUT happens due to practicing meditation. :) I agree opening of the third eye is essential- I was referring to knowledge of the chakras. I know virtually nothing about them, though I do recall being clearly aware of when they opened- (especially the crown- Wow!) You'll find an overview of the chakras here on the fourth video: http://realtantrasolutions.com/videos.htm It is ashamed that MMY didn't provide the rest of the teaching. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. I don't think you're going to have enlightenment without the opening of the third eye. So it is rather essential BUT happens due to practicing meditation. :) What the hell is this third eye and why do you think it is important? Sounds like you need to do some homework. ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote: snip Quick google search yields little about chakras as spiritual thingies. There are wheels mentioned, but not spiritual nexi specifical called chakras. This appears to be a Tibetan Buddhist term, ? In Hinduism and in some related Asian cultures, a chakra is thought to be a nexus of metaphysical and/or biophysical energy residing in the human body The chakras are described in the tantric texts the Sat-Cakra- Nirupana, and the Padaka-Pancaka, in which they are described as emanations of consciousness from Brahman, an energy emanating from the spiritual which gradually turns concrete, creating these distinct levels of chakras, and which eventually finds its rest in the Muladhara chakra. They are therefore part of an emanationist theory, like that of the kabbalah in the west, lataif-e-sitta in Sufism or neo-platonism. The energy that was unleashed in creation, called the Kundalini, lies coiled and sleeping at the base of the spine. It is the purpose of the tantric or kundalini forms of yoga to arouse this energy, and cause it to rise back up through the increasingly subtler chakras, until union with God is achieved in the Sahasrara chakra at the crown of the head The earliest known mention of chakras is found in the later Upanishads, including specifically the Brahma Upanishad and the Yogatattva Upanishad. These vedic models were adapted in Tibetan Buddhism as Vajrayana theory, and in the Tantric Shakta theory of chakras. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakra As is often the case, wiki appears to be wrong. The following is where chakra appears upanishads as is commonly thought of in the chakra/kundilini system. As is often the case with the topsy-turvy world of Hindu thought, the latter unpanishad appears to be more primitive and convluted than the earlier one. Of course, the earlier one emphasises TM while this one doesn't mention it at all: http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/varaha.htm I take that back. The mention of chakra appears to be descriptive rather than prescriptive (to use Judy's phrase), and there is much of interest in this upanishad for those who think TM is important rather than thinking that you gotta attend to each individual leaf (or chakra). MMY's advice to follow one's own religion appears to satsify most of the rest of the admonitions found or so it appears to TB moi. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I'm not sure why MMY does not mention opening of the spiritual astral/causal third eye, but it might be because it smacks of Religion and Hinduism, and of course, we all know TM isn't a Religion, God forbid. Yup, he secularized a lot of the stuff. For instance, creative intelligence for shakti. I don't think he uses creative intelligence as a translation of shakti. I think it's more a translation of brhama. I think you're wrong there or don't know what shakti is. I stand corrected. He aooears to refer to brahmi shakti as the cosmic creative intelligence aka Mother Divine. http://is1.mum.edu/vedicreserve/vedant.htm Rk Veda 1.158.6 Translation: For those () established in the self-referral state of intelligence (), the Cosmic Creative Intelligence, Mother Divine , (Transcendental Consciousness), the self-referral structuring dynamics of Veda the element of Samhita from its self-referral level undertakes to perform anything. Maharishi's Absolute Theory of Government, p. 462 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: jim_flanegin wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: wmurphy77 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Indians in general speak of the third eye open (kundalini has risen) as a sign of enlightenment. And what does MMY say? Like others have mentioned here I never heard him speak of the chakras. It's not that the information isn't important though. I have to say that it may be important, but not essential. I don't think you're going to have enlightenment without the opening of the third eye. So it is rather essential BUT happens due to practicing meditation. :) I agree opening of the third eye is essential- I was referring to knowledge of the chakras. I know virtually nothing about them, though I do recall being clearly aware of when they opened- (especially the crown- Wow!) You'll find an overview of the chakras here on the fourth video: http://realtantrasolutions.com/videos.htm It is ashamed that MMY didn't provide the rest of the teaching. Except, the teaching doesn't appear until late in the Vedic literature, and only as a description of the structure of the body, rather than as a collection of techniques to do something. In fact, Patanjali's Yoga Sutras appears to be the main thrust of the upanishad in which chakra is first mentioned. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
(snip) I take that back. The mention of chakra appears to be descriptive rather than prescriptive (to use Judy's phrase), and there is much of interest in this upanishad for those who think TM is important rather than thinking that you gotta attend to each individual leaf (or chakra). MMY's advice to follow one's own religion appears to satsify most of the rest of the admonitions found or so it appears to TB moi. Yes, could be like that... I have a counselor, whom I've worked with; she concentrates a lot on this notion of chakras; She studied with a woman, who can see auras and such. Her theory is that the soul energy is above the head; And one of the techniques she uses: is to imagine you are looking through the top of your head(like a skylight) into the light of your soul, and allowing this energy to flow down through you, enlivening each chakra as it goes; And then 'ground' the energy through your feet, deep into the earth. In spiritual terms, 'Bringing the energy of Heaven into the earth... Third eye to me has to do with 'seeing' oneness. Our physical eyes can only see separateness, and much of what the eyes see, gives power to the ego; Jesus said, that it would be better to pluck out your physical eyes if they are leading you into sin(lower vibrations)... So, 'seeing' through the third eye, has to do with brain coherence that meditation produces, plus the enlivening of the nervous system, the pituitary gland of the brain; an opening of sorts, in which you have spiritual site, seeing energy, seeing from the soul, auras and such. Each chakra has knowledge in and of itself, and on the level of which it governs... So, for example, an opening of the heart chakra could provide the truth of the heart; as the opening of the throat would provide a powerful and uplifting sound of truth, and likewise, the opening of the third eye, would provide the seeing of light energy, spiritual vision. When full enlightenment occurs, then the soul or the crown chakra is opened, and the soul energy is allowed to be lived in the body, which all of the obstructions removed; This is: 'Soul Realization'; And all of the benefits of knowing and experiencing you as an infinite soul, protected and connected to the All. One has left the 'wheel of karma, so to speak; The goal is to fully experience the soul, while you are here in a body. Does TM in itself provide all of this? Maybe for some it has, maybe for others it hasn't and they needed to seek more. I think Maharishi and the movement, wants to keep the teaching pure, And universal, for the people directly involved; So, that if whomever decides to leave and seek more elsewhere; Then the ones still involved can have the benefit of innocence of the beginner. R.G. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Is opening the third eye (Ajna) necessary for enlightenment (CC)?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (snip) I take that back. The mention of chakra appears to be descriptive rather than prescriptive (to use Judy's phrase), and there is much of interest in this upanishad for those who think TM is important rather than thinking that you gotta attend to each individual leaf (or chakra). MMY's advice to follow one's own religion appears to satsify most of the rest of the admonitions found or so it appears to TB moi. Yes, could be like that... I have a counselor, whom I've worked with; she concentrates a lot on this notion of chakras; She studied with a woman, who can see auras and such. Her theory is that the soul energy is above the head; And one of the techniques she uses: is to imagine you are looking through the top of your head(like a skylight) into the light of your soul, and allowing this energy to flow down through you, enlivening each chakra as it goes; And then 'ground' the energy through your feet, deep into the earth. In spiritual terms, 'Bringing the energy of Heaven into the earth... Third eye to me has to do with 'seeing' oneness. Our physical eyes can only see separateness, and much of what the eyes see, gives power to the ego; Jesus said, that it would be better to pluck out your physical eyes if they are leading you into sin(lower vibrations)... So, 'seeing' through the third eye, has to do with brain coherence that meditation produces, plus the enlivening of the nervous system, the pituitary gland of the brain; an opening of sorts, in which you have spiritual site, seeing energy, seeing from the soul, auras and such. Each chakra has knowledge in and of itself, and on the level of which it governs... So, for example, an opening of the heart chakra could provide the truth of the heart; as the opening of the throat would provide a powerful and uplifting sound of truth, and likewise, the opening of the third eye, would provide the seeing of light energy, spiritual vision. When full enlightenment occurs, then the soul or the crown chakra is opened, and the soul energy is allowed to be lived in the body, which all of the obstructions removed; This is: 'Soul Realization'; And all of the benefits of knowing and experiencing you as an infinite soul, protected and connected to the All. One has left the 'wheel of karma, so to speak; The goal is to fully experience the soul, while you are here in a body. Does TM in itself provide all of this? Maybe for some it has, maybe for others it hasn't and they needed to seek more. I think Maharishi and the movement, wants to keep the teaching pure, And universal, for the people directly involved; So, that if whomever decides to leave and seek more elsewhere; Then the ones still involved can have the benefit of innocence of the beginner. R.G. Of course, if one loses the innocence of the beginner, is there anything to be gained by this further stuff? I think not and if you keep the innocence of the beginner, there's nothing beyond That anyway. And, as I said, its a Johnny-come-lately on the Vedic scene. MMY deals with the Vedas and Upanaishads and chakra-techniques are nowhere mentioned in those. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
