Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 8:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder why no one in the press questions the purpose of keeping these people in Iowa? It would probably be in the best interests of the poor Hindu pandit boys if they were left alone to pray and get an education in Vedic City. Most of us here probably think it would be better not to involve the children in a sordid FFL debate. There's nothing good going to come from discussing the private life of under age children on a public forum. It would probably be much better to just leave the children alone and raise our own - that's more appropriate and rewarding than smearing some religious group in Iowa. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 8:39 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: They are literally indentured servants at best. Never pass up a made up opportunity to smear your old school teachers! Maybe it's none of your business what the poor Hindu pundit boys from India are doing in Vedic City. Did you make a donation? Get a grip - people pray for others in large groups every day all over the world!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
then why has John Hagelin said that only 5% of them have gone missing? On Thu, 2/13/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 2:58 PM On 2/13/2014 6:41 AM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Damned Muck-Rakers. Did not fact check their sources. There are no missing boy pandits in Vedic City and apparently the living quarters are fit for a king with a free education. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Are you sure that think is the right word? The pundits have an average age of 26, according to the article we are discussing. But if they were underage I would be even more likely to talk about them. I find the idea of keeping a bunch of foreigners as pets in the hope of giving yourselves a better life to be astoundingly offensive. Not least because it doesn't actually work, as anyone who has thought objectively about it for at least a minute will be aware. The amount of people I know who have desperately given money in the hope of a turnaround in bad circumstances is beyond count. I know disabled people who have paid a fortune for these bullshit yagyas. I know someone I can't even talk about who gave his life savings in exchange for a few prayers that quite obviously did nothing. The list is endless, in one way we have to say that if God didn't want them sheared he would not have made them sheep. On the other hand I can't see a wrong without wanting to see it righted. Either prove that this superstitious crap works or let the pundits go home or earn some money in Fairfield or get them a degree that might mean something in the real world. What I think is that the whole thing is a scam and you should be ashamed for trying to shut down debate about it on a public forum. But you are right in that they are religious, but they claim to be scientific and that makes them fair game. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder why no one in the press questions the purpose of keeping these people in Iowa? It would probably be in the best interests of the poor Hindu pandit boys if they were left alone to pray and get an education in Vedic City. Most of us here probably think it would be better not to involve the children in a sordid FFL debate. There's nothing good going to come from discussing the private life of under age children on a public forum. It would probably be much better to just leave the children alone and raise our own - that's more appropriate and rewarding than smearing some religious group in Iowa. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
you are still an idiot who can't read - the MUM folks claim NONE of them are under the age of 18 On Thu, 2/13/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 3:09 PM On 2/13/2014 8:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder why no one in the press questions the purpose of keeping these people in Iowa? It would probably be in the best interests of the poor Hindu pandit boys if they were left alone to pray and get an education in Vedic City. Most of us here probably think it would be better not to involve the children in a sordid FFL debate. There's nothing good going to come from discussing the private life of under age children on a public forum. It would probably be much better to just leave the children alone and raise our own - that's more appropriate and rewarding than smearing some religious group in Iowa. That's what I think.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Precisely! Follow the money people, follow the money ...
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
I agree totally - it might have some decency if they would do some sort of profit sharing with the pundits - but given the millions of dollars the TMO gets from the yagyas, and the pundits get maybe 50 bucks a month, and even that is apparently not given if the man who posted here recently is accurate. What an unconscionable con this whole thing is. On Thu, 2/13/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 4:29 PM Are you sure that think is the right word? The pundits have an average age of 26, according to the article we are discussing. But if they were underage I would be even more likely to talk about them. I find the idea of keeping a bunch of foreigners as pets in the hope of giving yourselves a better life to be astoundingly offensive. Not least because it doesn't actually work, as anyone who has thought objectively about it for at least a minute will be aware. The amount of people I know who have desperately given money in the hope of a turnaround in bad circumstances is beyond count. I know disabled people who have paid a fortune for these bullshit yagyas. I know someone I can't even talk about who gave his life savings in exchange for a few prayers that quite obviously did nothing. The list is endless, in one way we have to say that if God didn't want them sheared he would not have made them sheep. On the other hand I can't see a wrong without wanting to see it righted. Either prove that this superstitious crap works or let the pundits go home or earn some money in Fairfield or get them a degree that might mean something in the real world. What I think is that the whole thing is a scam and you should be ashamed for trying to shut down debate about it on a public forum. But you are right in that they are religious, but they claim to be scientific and that makes them fair game. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:04 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I wonder why no one in the press questions the purpose of keeping these people in Iowa? It would probably be in the best interests of the poor Hindu pandit boys if they were left alone to pray and get an education in Vedic City. Most of us here probably think it would be better not to involve the children in a sordid FFL debate. There's nothing good going to come from discussing the private life of under age children on a public forum. It would probably be much better to just leave the children alone and raise our own - that's more appropriate and rewarding than smearing some religious group in Iowa. That's what I think.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More About Badrinath
My Journey to India 2011 - Badarikashrama - The Mountain Home of God [image: Inline image 1] At holy places you don't have to wait for miracles - they are all around you. Diaries by Sacinandana Swami: http://www.sacinandanaswami.com/my-journey-to-india/http://www.sacinandanaswami.com/en/s1a23/diaries-by-sacinandana-swami/my-journey-to-india-2011-badarikashrama-the-mountain-home-of-god.html On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Richard Williams pundits...@gmail.comwrote: A broad stairway leads up to a tall arched gateway, which is the main entrance. The architecture resembles a Buddhist vihara (temple), with the brightly painted facade also more typical of Buddhism temples. [image: Inline image 1] The main shrine houses the 1 m (3.3 ft) Shaligram (black stone) image of Badrinarayan, housed in a gold canopy, under a Badri Tree. The image of Badari Narayan is armed with Shankh (conch) and Chakra (wheel) in two of his arms in a lifted posture and two arms rested on the lap in Yogamudra posture. Vishnu in the form of Badrinath, is depicted in the temple sitting in padmasana posture. According to the legend, Vishnu was chastised by a sage who saw Vishnu's consort Lakshmi massaging his feet. Vishnu went to Badrinath to perform austerity, meditating for a long time in padmasana. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badrinath_temple
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 10:29 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I find the idea of keeping a bunch of foreigners as pets in the hope of giving yourselves a better life to be astoundingly offensive. There are probably a million foreign students living and working in the U.S. and in Canada. Around here, there are thousands of immigrants from India and Mexico. What would you have them do, leave their religion and their culture behind just because they want to get an education in the US? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
LOL, is that what they're doing, getting an education? Well spun, you should work in the TM press office. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:29 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I find the idea of keeping a bunch of foreigners as pets in the hope of giving yourselves a better life to be astoundingly offensive. There are probably a million foreign students living and working in the U.S. and in Canada. Around here, there are thousands of immigrants from India and Mexico. What would you have them do, leave their religion and their culture behind just because they want to get an education in the US? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 10:31 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: you are still an idiot who can't read - the MUM folks claim NONE of them are under the age of 18 It's still none of your business what Hindu schoolboys do after school, no matter what age they are or where they live - it's a free country.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 10:51 AM, geezerfr...@yahoo.com wrote: Precisely! Follow the money people, follow the money ... He's dead, Geezer. What money?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 10:52 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: if they would do some sort of profit sharing with the pundits You mean other than the cash stipend, the free room and board and the free education?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
You really are an utterly shameless apologist. Luckily everyone else can read and understand and don't have to rely on your delusions. I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. I'll need a big calculator though... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:51 AM, geezerfreak@... mailto:geezerfreak@... wrote: Precisely! Follow the money people, follow the money ... He's dead, Geezer. What money?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 2:21 PM, salyavin808 wrote: is that what they're doing, getting an education? All Indian pandits go to school - probably their entire lives are devoted to learning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 2:27 PM, salyavin808 wrote: I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. So, how much money have you donated to the MMY pandit project?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Yes Tricky Dicky, learning things of no value except to people like you who think they will have a better life from having someone do a bit of chanting on their behalf. It's a crock, I'm sorry you had to hear it here first. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 2:21 PM, salyavin808 wrote: is that what they're doing, getting an education? All Indian pandits go to school - probably their entire lives are devoted to learning.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Me? Are you kidding, not a penny. I can spot a scam from miles away. From the first time I heard about it I thought No way, it's rubbish, I'm surprised they get away with it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 2:27 PM, salyavin808 wrote: I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. So, how much money have you donated to the MMY pandit project?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Me? Are you kidding, not a penny. I can spot a scam from miles away. From the first time I heard about it I thought No way, it's rubbish, I'm surprised they get away with it. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 2:27 PM, salyavin808 wrote: I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. So, how much money have you donated to the MMY pandit project?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
LOL, me? Are you kidding, not a penny! I can spot a scam a mile away, you have to get up pretty early to catch me out, but yagyas! FFS, the whole concept stinks to high heaven. I'm embarrassed for you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 2:27 PM, salyavin808 wrote: I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. So, how much money have you donated to the MMY pandit project?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
I suggest you go to one of the community colleges you are always yapping about Richie and take a reading comprehension course. Obviously Sal said the TMO is exploiting the Indians to give THEMSELVES a better life - i.e. the TMO people get advantages by taking advantage of the Indians - he didn't mean the pundits were coming here to get a better life in that sentence On Thu, 2/13/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 8:21 PM LOL, is that what they're doing, getting an education? Well spun, you should work in the TM press office. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:29 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I find the idea of keeping a bunch of foreigners as pets in the hope of giving yourselves a better life to be astoundingly offensive. There are probably a million foreign students living and working in the U.S. and in Canada. Around here, there are thousands of immigrants from India and Mexico. What would you have them do, leave their religion and their culture behind just because they want to get an education in the US? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
what education? The only thing they teach 'em is how to recite the vedas, a job that is shit in India unless you are one of the fat cats that run the places that hoodwink the dummy Americans, Canadians and Europeans to give them big money to chant for 'em to no avail, the ashram owners get the bucks and the pundits who do the actual chants get to eat. On Thu, 2/13/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 8:26 PM On 2/13/2014 10:52 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: if they would do some sort of profit sharing with the pundits You mean other than the cash stipend, the free room and board and the free education?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
I know one initiator whose wife has a lot of health problems - he has paid the Movement thousands for health yagyas - ain't done shit. On Thu, 2/13/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 8:27 PM You really are an utterly shameless apologist. Luckily everyone else can read and understand and don't have to rely on your delusions. I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. I'll need a big calculator though... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:51 AM, geezerfreak@... wrote: Precisely! Follow the money people, follow the money ... He's dead, Geezer. What money?
[FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
What a bunch of ninnies. The pundit project is scientific research in consciousness. Based on experience observation we got hypothesis and testing going on. Have some fucking patience for the scientific process. As an investment for peace then science and basic research can take a lot of money. Think what they spend on the engines of war.I feel it is highly worthwhile to see the pundit project through to its end. Damn you and this scurrilous FFL posting too as if it was any fact and newsworthy; all these deceiving anti-science folks and Geezer too for starting this thread too should be strung up by their you-know-whats. The lack of respect for professionalism here is appalling and so unfair. It pisses me off when posting on FFL has to descend to this level. The transcending meditative state: A unitive experience that is within the human ontology. It is awesome. The Unified Field. It should not be discounted that It is true. All we are saying is let's give Peace a chance, -U.S. Buck in the Dome More than 30 Indian publications in the US and abroad have retracted the wildly inaccurate article about the Vedic Pandits that they had picked up from a Chicago Indian weekly. Yep, Damned Muck-Rakers. Did not fact check their sources. That is the problem with sensational journalism and the internet. -Buck geezerfreak posts: http://worldhindunews.com/2014021217951/young-vedic-pandits-go-missing-from-iowa-based-sponsoring-organization-ela-dutt/ http://worldhindunews.com/2014021217951/young-vedic-pandits-go-missing-from-iowa-based-sponsoring-organization-ela-dutt/ LEnglish5 writes: Oprah Winfrey did a TV show about Fairfield, and part of that show as about the Vedic Pandits. The living and working conditions could be seen in the TV footage: http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-next-chapter/Oprah-Meets-Iowas-Pandits-Video http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-next-chapter/Oprah-Meets-Iowas-Pandits-Video No news article has bothered to do any fact checking on this issue. Certainly, no news article has bothered to link to the Oprah TV footage. . .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 6:38 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: the TMO people get advantages by taking advantage of the Indians You are not even making any sense - the TMO people ARE Indians.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 6:40 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: The only thing they teach 'em is how to recite the vedas, a job that is shit in India unless you are one of the fat cats that run the places that hoodwink the dummy Americans, Canadians and Europeans to give them big money to chant for 'em to no avail, the ashram owners get the bucks and the pundits who do the actual chants get to eat. Sounds like a pretty fair deal for chanting and learning the Vedas, if the food is good.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 5:01 PM, salyavin808 wrote: the whole concept stinks to high heaven. Maybe we should just ban all religious ceremonies. I mean, who do those Hindu Pundits think they are coming over here and burning all that punk - they think that's going to send a message up to God? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 3:51 PM, salyavin808 wrote: learning things of no value except to people like you who think they will have a better life from having someone do a bit of chanting on their behalf. Don't you just hate those Hindus!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
On 2/13/2014 7:09 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: It pisses me off when posting on FFL has to descend to this level. So, let's review what we know: All the pundit boys are accounted for and there are no unaccounted for pundit boys in Vedic City, IA. Are we agreed so far? According to my sources, all the pundit boys not only get a stipend and a free education, but they get free room and board in a place that by comparison to where they came from, is a mansion. They probably all get smartphones, radios, and a TV as well. All they have to do is meditate a few times a day and chant OM. Sweet!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I suggest you go to one of the community colleges you are always yapping about Richie and take a reading comprehension course. Obviously Sal said the TMO is exploiting the Indians to give THEMSELVES a better life - i.e. the TMO people get advantages by taking advantage of the Indians - he didn't mean the pundits were coming here to get a better life in that sentence Don't jump on that particular Ricky train. He just says shit and we have been advised not to take him seriously. He only takes himself seriously, very, very seriously, when he runs his schtick on us. On Thu, 2/13/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 8:21 PM LOL, is that what they're doing, getting an education? Well spun, you should work in the TM press office. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:29 AM, salyavin808 wrote: I find the idea of keeping a bunch of foreigners as pets in the hope of giving yourselves a better life to be astoundingly offensive. There are probably a million foreign students living and working in the U.S. and in Canada. Around here, there are thousands of immigrants from India and Mexico. What would you have them do, leave their religion and their culture behind just because they want to get an education in the US? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
How can you possibly think that Hindu religious practices constitutes any kind of science? Your sheep must be producing lots of manure cause your thought processes seem to be affected by snorting too much methane gas. On Fri, 2/14/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 1:09 AM What a bunch of ninnies. The pundit project is scientific research in consciousness. Based on experience observation we got hypothesis and testing going on. Have some fucking patience for the scientific process. As an investment for peace then science and basic research can take a lot of money. Think what they spend on the engines of war. I feel it is highly worthwhile to see the pundit project through to its end. Damn you and this scurrilous FFL posting too as if it was any fact and newsworthy; all these deceiving anti-science folks and Geezer too for starting this thread too should be strung up by their you-know-whats. The lack of respect for professionalism here is appalling and so unfair. It pisses me off when posting on FFL has to descend to this level. The transcending meditative state: A unitive experience that is within the human ontology. It is awesome. The Unified Field. It should not be discounted that It is true. All we are saying is let's give Peace a chance,-U.S. Buck in the Dome More than 30 Indian publications in the US and abroad have retracted the wildly inaccurate article about the Vedic Pandits that they had picked up from a Chicago Indian weekly. Yep, Damned Muck-Rakers. Did not fact check their sources. That is the problem with sensational journalism and the internet.-Buck geezerfreak posts:http://worldhindunews.com/2014021217951/young-vedic-pandits-go-missing-from-iowa-based-sponsoring-organization-ela-dutt/ LEnglish5 writes: Oprah Winfrey did a TV show about Fairfield, and part of that show as about the Vedic Pandits. The living and working conditions could be seen in the TV footage: http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-next-chapter/Oprah-Meets-Iowas-Pandits-Video No news article has bothered to do any fact checking on this issue. Certainly, no news article has bothered to link to the Oprah TV footage. . .
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
When did Bevan Morris, John Hagelin, Neal Patterson, Greg Wilson, King Tony Nader et al become Indians? On Fri, 2/14/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 1:17 AM On 2/13/2014 6:38 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: the TMO people get advantages by taking advantage of the Indians You are not even making any sense - the TMO people ARE Indians.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Hagelin and Goldstein have both said there are 5% who are missing. On Fri, 2/14/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 2:35 AM On 2/13/2014 7:09 PM, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: It pisses me off when posting on FFL has to descend to this level. So, let's review what we know: All the pundit boys are accounted for and there are no unaccounted for pundit boys in Vedic City, IA. Are we agreed so far? According to my sources, all the pundit boys not only get a stipend and a free education, but they get free room and board in a place that by comparison to where they came from, is a mansion. They probably all get smartphones, radios, and a TV as well. All they have to do is meditate a few times a day and chant OM. Sweet!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: When did Bevan Morris, John Hagelin, Neal Patterson, Greg Wilson, King Tony Nader et al become Indians? Touche MJ. On Fri, 2/14/14, Richard J. Williams punditster@... mailto:punditster@... wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, February 14, 2014, 1:17 AM On 2/13/2014 6:38 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: the TMO people get advantages by taking advantage of the Indians You are not even making any sense - the TMO people ARE Indians.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Why ask me Richard? Ask the Srivastava/Varma clan. They have it ... ALL of it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
I had a girlfriend who suffered from monthly migraines (see if you can work that out) it was no laughing matter, it was 3-4 days in a dark room with a damp towel over her lovely little face, broke my heart it did. She paid a total of £40,000 on health yagyas to cure it. I asked why she didn't ask for a refund after the first one failed but got the usual it works at a level I'm not aware of or, there's too much stress in collective consciousness or at least the money goes to the best possible place or we're in the wrong yuga Usual stuff. This is part of the Marshy genius, he creates a worldview that makes your experience of consciousness the most powerful thing that's happening in the world, not only for your own development but in changing the world for the better in every possible way. And if it doesn't work, the philosophy contains within it the reason why it doesn't work and it's the same reason you feel so good in the first place - the mechanics of stress release. Something good is happening. I wish I'd thought of it. Bloody amazing. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I know one initiator whose wife has a lot of health problems - he has paid the Movement thousands for health yagyas - ain't done shit. On Thu, 2/13/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 13, 2014, 8:27 PM You really are an utterly shameless apologist. Luckily everyone else can read and understand and don't have to rely on your delusions. I might just try and add up the amount of money that people that just I know have spent on prayers performed by your schoolboys. I'll need a big calculator though... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:51 AM, geezerfreak@... wrote: Precisely! Follow the money people, follow the money ... He's dead, Geezer. What money?
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Tricky Dicky strikes again, top form this morning. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 5:01 PM, salyavin808 wrote: the whole concept stinks to high heaven. Maybe we should just ban all religious ceremonies. I mean, who do those Hindu Pundits think they are coming over here and burning all that punk - they think that's going to send a message up to God? Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Sweet. You forgot to mention that the TMO makes millions out of keeping them away from home and chanting endless yagyas to supposedly make life better for wealthy westerners. Self-serving neo-imperialism - a charity it aint. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 7:09 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: It pisses me off when posting on FFL has to descend to this level. So, let's review what we know: All the pundit boys are accounted for and there are no unaccounted for pundit boys in Vedic City, IA. Are we agreed so far? According to my sources, all the pundit boys not only get a stipend and a free education, but they get free room and board in a place that by comparison to where they came from, is a mansion. They probably all get smartphones, radios, and a TV as well. All they have to do is meditate a few times a day and chant OM. Sweet!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
Sweet. You forgot to mention the millions the TMO makes out of getting these guys to chant endless yagyas to supposedly improve the lives of rich westerners. Neo-imperialism, a charity it aint... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: On 2/13/2014 7:09 PM, dhamiltony2k5@... mailto:dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: It pisses me off when posting on FFL has to descend to this level. So, let's review what we know: All the pundit boys are accounted for and there are no unaccounted for pundit boys in Vedic City, IA. Are we agreed so far? According to my sources, all the pundit boys not only get a stipend and a free education, but they get free room and board in a place that by comparison to where they came from, is a mansion. They probably all get smartphones, radios, and a TV as well. All they have to do is meditate a few times a day and chant OM. Sweet!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Is Geoffrey still National Leader over there? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 1:14 PM Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
I can't believe that anyone, even Doug Henning could put this out there and expect anyone to believe it. On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:14 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F5pR7Tj2qY
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
No, he quit the movement after someone else was offered the position of raja. As top dog for so long it must have been galling but he wasn't the most dynamic leader and erm, divided opinion, shall we say. I think the raja does the job of national leader instead who could be more important than the guy with the crown? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Is Geoffrey still National Leader over there? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 1:14 PM Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Damn! I never would have thought Geoff would have quit the Movement, wonder if he still meditates with TM? Which brings up another question. I thought all one had to do to be a raja was pay a million bucks to the Big M and you were a raja - what are or were the criteria for becoming a raja? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 2:14 PM No, he quit the movement after someone else was offered the position of raja. As top dog for so long it must have been galling but he wasn't the most dynamic leader and erm, divided opinion, shall we say.I think the raja does the job of national leader instead who could be more important than the guy with the crown? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Is Geoffrey still National Leader over there? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 1:14 PM Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
and what did Geoff do that divided opinion, I wonder? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 2:14 PM No, he quit the movement after someone else was offered the position of raja. As top dog for so long it must have been galling but he wasn't the most dynamic leader and erm, divided opinion, shall we say.I think the raja does the job of national leader instead who could be more important than the guy with the crown? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Is Geoffrey still National Leader over there? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 1:14 PM Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
[FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up. I think for many people back in the late 60's, 70's and part of the 80's it was a decent way for them to focus their otherwise unfocused energies. There were and still are much worse ways to spend your time than promoting the TM practice and Movement. I can't speak for now as I have been basically divorced from anything TM since the early 80's but I remember lots of wonderful, older students attending MIU who felt it was a new lease on life for them, a new direction. Like I said, I regret nothing about having attended that school or having spent 16 years meditating. It can all be filed under how the rest of life proceeds - I learned some stuff, I figured other stuff out and I moved on carrying with me the things that I thought might serve me best for the future.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Doug believed it himself so why not expect him to think others might believe it? Doug was just a magician who loved TM and MMY and the Movement. Who would really take him seriously on anything except creating a sense of wonder through his practice of magic as he used to like to say. He was a sweet little guy from Manitoba - so Canadian!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Yes, Geoff still does TM as far as I know, haven't had an update for a couple o' years. He's out earning a living now, running a company he set up but I don't know what it does. Ordinarily you just need to have a million bucks and the desire to be a raja but those who worked for the TMO don't usually have that sort of cash so someone donated it so that one of the TMO UK directors could do the training and wear the crown. Peter Warburton was chosen over GC and that was that. Never mind, I'm sure he's enlightened enough to brush it off. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Damn! I never would have thought Geoff would have quit the Movement, wonder if he still meditates with TM? Which brings up another question. I thought all one had to do to be a raja was pay a million bucks to the Big M and you were a raja - what are or were the criteria for becoming a raja? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 2:14 PM No, he quit the movement after someone else was offered the position of raja. As top dog for so long it must have been galling but he wasn't the most dynamic leader and erm, divided opinion, shall we say.I think the raja does the job of national leader instead who could be more important than the guy with the crown? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Is Geoffrey still National Leader over there? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 1:14 PM Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
What did he do? Usual politics that seems to afflict the TMO, people hold grudges and make unpopular decisions. Not worth talking about really, just life. It's always tough at the top. Most people disliked his lecturing style though, he was be insanely boring and many thought he was a very poor choice as a leader but then he was Marshy's choice so that had to be rationalised, and some people thought that he'd been chosen to run things in order to make everyone stand up to him as a sort of evolutionary thing. God they really were all crazy! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: and what did Geoff do that divided opinion, I wonder? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 2:14 PM No, he quit the movement after someone else was offered the position of raja. As top dog for so long it must have been galling but he wasn't the most dynamic leader and erm, divided opinion, shall we say.I think the raja does the job of national leader instead who could be more important than the guy with the crown? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Is Geoffrey still National Leader over there? On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 1:14 PM Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Yeah you're right. I met him at MIU one time - I was there for a course and my mother had threatened me with dire consequences if I didn't get his autograph for her. So I went up and stammeringly asked if he would - he was super nice about it and signed a poster of himself I bought for my mother so she was happy. We were waiting outside the flying hall and chatted a few minutes. He was a real nice man the few minutes I interacted with him. The way our minds believe things we want to believe is so crazy - a good example is the quote from David Sieveking on the Raja Emmanuel incident in Germany some years ago. The Raja was not speaking out of ignorance, according to Sieveking: He knows about Adolph Hitler. He knows about the Nazis. He definitely didn’t know how controversial his statements would be. He’s become very narrow-minded in his world-view that consists only of Maharishi's teachings. He was crowned by 'His Holiness Maharishi,' who is considered by true believers in the TM movement as godlike. He’s not a human being to them -- he can’t do wrong, he's perfect. When someone like the Maharishi crowns you as 'King of Germany' and tells you that you are now responsible for your country, you can easily lose connection with reality. Sieveking believes Emanuel’s poor choice of words was the result of having been immersed and isolated in the TM movement for 40 years: “This is the kind of autocratic system that could -- I say could -- also be used in a fascist way. If there is only one enlightened super leader who has all truth in him, then it leads to arrogance towards anyone else. This is the way they treat criticism; they are not able to have a dialogue. On Wed, 2/12/14, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 2:54 PM Doug believed it himself so why not expect him to think others might believe it? Doug was just a magician who loved TM and MMY and the Movement. Who would really take him seriously on anything except creating a sense of wonder through his practice of magic as he used to like to say. He was a sweet little guy from Manitoba - so Canadian!
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Yeah, poor old Doug. Wonder what he thought of it all at the end? Maybe he knew they were conning money out of people using his name, maybe he was so brainwashed he approved but I doubt it, he seemed like a nice guy. He just got in with a bad crowd that's all. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: I can't believe that anyone, even Doug Henning could put this out there and expect anyone to believe it. On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 8:14 AM, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Shame that youtube doesn't have the original 1992 NLP broadcast, that one was bonkers with poor old Doug Henning jumping around and more smiley men in suits with rainbows all over the place. I operated the autocue for a couple of election specials, great fun, it's a shame they (and some of the other crazy no-hope UK parties) have quit politics. But Maggie Thatcher thought that frivolous parties like Monster Raving Loonies or the Giant Green Chicken party were cheapening politics and put the cost of the deposit up to drive them away. For me there was no better sight than Tory and Labour politicians having to stand next to people dressed like chickens or pantomime horses on election night while the votes are read out. Punctured a few pompous balloons. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Yeah I did watch the video, all the way through. I had forgotten about Geoffrey Clements - I remeber seeing him on tapes talking to M way back when I was have Evening Knowledge program at MIU. What struck me about this piece was it being written by someone who experienced it as a child - man, what a screwed up way to grow up! On Wed, 2/12/14, salyavin808 no_re...@yahoogroups.com mailto:no_re...@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss! To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, February 12, 2014, 7:14 AM Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F5pR7Tj2qY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F5pR7Tj2qY
[FairfieldLife] RE: More on missing pandits
http://worldhindunews.com/2014021217951/young-vedic-pandits-go-missing-from-iowa-based-sponsoring-organization-ela-dutt/ http://worldhindunews.com/2014021217951/young-vedic-pandits-go-missing-from-iowa-based-sponsoring-organization-ela-dutt/ Oprah Winfrey did a TV show about Fairfield, and part of that show as about teh Vedic Pandits. The living and working conditions could be seen in the TV footage: http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-next-chapter/Oprah-Meets-Iowas-Pandits-Video http://www.oprah.com/own-oprahs-next-chapter/Oprah-Meets-Iowas-Pandits-Video No news article has bothered to do any fact checking on this issue. Certainly, no news article has bothered to link to the Oprah TV footage.
[FairfieldLife] RE: More on Skelmersdale
The quote of the year in this article has to be: Things to Do in Skelmersdale Skelmersdale is an excellent place to learn to drive, as there are numerous empty industrial estates to master stopping and starting. There are many roundabouts to practice on too, and most have very little traffic so you can go through the routine of looking in the right place without worrying about having to stop. For those of you who are nervous about right-hand-turns at junctions, due to the roundabouts these can be avoided completely. Once you have passed your test the M58 is a good motorway to practice getting on to. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Do scroll down - there are some interesting tid-bits here. Skelmersdale, Lancashire, UK What's the difference between VD and a house in Skelmersdale? You can get rid of VD. - Old Lancashire Joke Situated in the bottom left-hand corner of the map of Lancashire, near Wigan http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/A500365, the small town of Skelmersdale has never enjoyed a good reputation among Lancastrians, as the above joke illustrates. In recent years, Skelmersdale has begun to shake off its image, and quite soon, it might even qualify to be referred to as 'up and coming'. Very few Lancastrians actually pronounce the 'l' in 'Skelmersdale'. Only those who have never heard it pronounced before, or who are trying to talk 'properly' do this. The town is pronounced 'Skemmsdale' and is abbreviated to 'Skem'. History The town is mentioned in the Doomsday Book as 100 acres of farmland. Skelmersdale was, for many years, a small, sleepy farming village. When the mining industry arrived in 1850, more and more people began to arrive, including miners from other areas of the country. The population of the town increased eightfold and, like many towns of the industrial era, it became hideously overcrowded. In 1874, The Lancet1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A890561#footnote1 reported that it was a colliery village that had a 'pre-eminence in filth'. After the Second World War, someone decided that some people in Liverpool http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/A280892 would like somewhere nicer to live. Thus, after the war, Skelmersdale was chosen to become one of the strings of New Towns that became dotted around the country. Vast council estates were built, as well as new schools, a large library, a shopping centre (the Concourse) and all the other things people thought a town would need. The new roads were designed to keep the traffic flowing with roundabout upon roundabout, and very few traffic lights. Footpaths were built well away from the roads, and passed underneath them via subways if necessary. An industrial estate was built named Pimbo, and companies were offered reduced rates if they opened a factory there. Optimistically, a motorway was built linking Liverpool and the M6 that had two junctions for Skelmersdale. The part of Skelmersdale that existed before the redevelopment became known as Old Skem. The original residents were not overjoyed at their sleepy little village being taken over by a sudden influx of Scousers2 http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A890561#footnote2. Their familiar old town was transformed, even destroyed in parts. The former main street, Sandy Lane, was replaced by a shopping centre, and several old streets and communities, such as Stormy Corner, were destroyed. The whole character of the town changed to one closer to Liverpool than Lancashire. Local children picked up the newcomers' accent in school, and now the Skelmersdale accent is distinctly Scouse. Unfortunately, many of the factories did not stay when the rents were increased. One of the largest, Thorn Television, closed completely. Many people decided to move away, some going back to Liverpool. When people got a better job, they would usually choose to leave the area. The teachers at the schools, the engineers at the factories, the librarians - all would often choose to commute into Skelmersdale rather than live there. Many of the council houses were unfilled, and the transcendental meditation movement http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/A794388 were looking for a location for their ideal village. Milton Keynes, suspicious of the organisation, had already denied them permission to build there. Skelmersdale invited them to help fill hard-to-let council estates. The residents who had moved from Liverpool were suspicious of the new influx of mainly middle-class southerners who spent their time in the lotus position hopping up and down on foam mats. The TM community built their own housing estate, centred on 'the Golden Dome' (though the planning authority refused permission to paint the roof of the dome gold). Getting to Skelmersdale The nearest train station is Parbold, which is on a branch line between Southport and Manchester, and is
[FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Man, this is great stuff! I am sorry I never thought to follow the Movement in Ye Merrye Olde Englande before! http://twentyfirstfloormirror.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/yogi-flyers-and-the-1992-general-election/ http://twentyfirstfloormirror.wordpress.com/2013/02/25/yogi-flyers-and-the-1992-general-election/ The second quote of the century and one with which I can completely concur with and relate to: I must have been about three or four when I first watched them do this, and I soon found I could replicate the hopping around on the bed without needing to do any of the tedious meditation and yoga stuff.
[FairfieldLife] RE: More on Skelmersdale
Many of the council houses were unfilled, and the transcendental meditation movement http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/A794388 were looking for a location for their ideal village. Milton Keynes, suspicious of the organisation, had already denied them permission to build there. I was told that the Milton Keynes council asked a delegation of TM teachers if they were a cult and one of them said Yes, but were a good one And that was that. LOL. Shame, as MK is far far nicer than Skem but still has footpaths away from roads which is great for avoiding pollution but astoundingly irritating if you want to actually get somewhere as they meander about all over the place. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: The quote of the year in this article has to be: Things to Do in Skelmersdale Skelmersdale is an excellent place to learn to drive, as there are numerous empty industrial estates to master stopping and starting. There are many roundabouts to practice on too, and most have very little traffic so you can go through the routine of looking in the right place without worrying about having to stop. For those of you who are nervous about right-hand-turns at junctions, due to the roundabouts these can be avoided completely. Once you have passed your test the M58 is a good motorway to practice getting on to. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74@... wrote: Do scroll down - there are some interesting tid-bits here. Skelmersdale, Lancashire, UK What's the difference between VD and a house in Skelmersdale? You can get rid of VD. - Old Lancashire Joke Situated in the bottom left-hand corner of the map of Lancashire, near Wigan http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/A500365, the small town of Skelmersdale has never enjoyed a good reputation among Lancastrians, as the above joke illustrates. In recent years, Skelmersdale has begun to shake off its image, and quite soon, it might even qualify to be referred to as 'up and coming'. Very few Lancastrians actually pronounce the 'l' in 'Skelmersdale'. Only those who have never heard it pronounced before, or who are trying to talk 'properly' do this. The town is pronounced 'Skemmsdale' and is abbreviated to 'Skem'. History The town is mentioned in the Doomsday Book as 100 acres of farmland. Skelmersdale was, for many years, a small, sleepy farming village. When the mining industry arrived in 1850, more and more people began to arrive, including miners from other areas of the country. The population of the town increased eightfold and, like many towns of the industrial era, it became hideously overcrowded. In 1874, The Lancet1 http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A890561#footnote1 reported that it was a colliery village that had a 'pre-eminence in filth'. After the Second World War, someone decided that some people in Liverpool http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/A280892 would like somewhere nicer to live. Thus, after the war, Skelmersdale was chosen to become one of the strings of New Towns that became dotted around the country. Vast council estates were built, as well as new schools, a large library, a shopping centre (the Concourse) and all the other things people thought a town would need. The new roads were designed to keep the traffic flowing with roundabout upon roundabout, and very few traffic lights. Footpaths were built well away from the roads, and passed underneath them via subways if necessary. An industrial estate was built named Pimbo, and companies were offered reduced rates if they opened a factory there. Optimistically, a motorway was built linking Liverpool and the M6 that had two junctions for Skelmersdale. The part of Skelmersdale that existed before the redevelopment became known as Old Skem. The original residents were not overjoyed at their sleepy little village being taken over by a sudden influx of Scousers2 http://news.bbc.co.uk/dna/place-lancashire/plain/A890561#footnote2. Their familiar old town was transformed, even destroyed in parts. The former main street, Sandy Lane, was replaced by a shopping centre, and several old streets and communities, such as Stormy Corner, were destroyed. The whole character of the town changed to one closer to Liverpool than Lancashire. Local children picked up the newcomers' accent in school, and now the Skelmersdale accent is distinctly Scouse. Unfortunately, many of the factories did not stay when the rents were increased. One of the largest, Thorn Television, closed completely. Many people decided to move away, some going back to Liverpool. When people got a better job, they would usually choose to leave the area. The teachers at the schools, the engineers at the factories, the librarians - all would often choose to commute into Skelmersdale rather than live there. Many of the council houses were unfilled, and the transcendental meditation movement
[FairfieldLife] RE: More British Bliss!
Did you watch the election video though, what a classic! Who knew that the Skem TMers had reduced the Mersyside crime rate by 60%? Nobody in Mersyside that's for sure! The funny thing is I worked for them and I voted for someone else! LOL. But they really thought they were going to win and it was an amazing effort to get a political party together in just a couple of weeks, even if it did just mean giving an intro talk to people who aren't interested. Of course, after it turned out they weren't going to be leading the country the story changed to it being a good way of getting the word out. And it was, I was manning the phones after the last election the NLP fought and was highly dubious that any member of the public would ring and ask for more info, but ring they did and I spent ages explaining all the terms and beliefs to them. Being evangelical isn't really my thing though and I wasn't very good at it, I think you need to really believe something to be a good teacher and I never did think it was very credible. As I always say, you have to look at what this amazing coherence and nature support has done for the TMO to realise it isn't the best model for understanding society and human behaviour. I think it's a crock actually but there you are, we had fun while it lasted and I loved organising press conferences even if no one ever turned up.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
Apparently some Pundits have been informed by ill-wishers that they can make 2000$ a month doing simple jobs. Desperate for cash they have been running away even after check-in at the airports. Can't you just see MJ shouting offers for work at his moonshine business in the Appalachian Mountains outside the fence at his old university ?
[FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
Ohh there are over 2,600 panditsover there, (only)about five per cent have gone AWOL (absent without leave) Goldstein told PTI in an email. What kind of an argument! Seems someone read FFL's 10% headline http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm
[FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
Friends; Shrinkage naturally happens in any organization. Certainly not every person needs to belong to or is suited to every organization. That some of these people would jump the fence could be expected given the amazing opportunity in life that America offers otherwise with its material freedoms in bills of rights and due process presenting to immigrants. That is in all of our collective histories. These articles and these posts arriving on FFL are just muck-racking by haters. Talk about vultures, this research project in consciousness is a long ways from dead and over. But like life itself this larger inquiry in to the sound value of Vedic chanting as scientific and valid human spiritual practice for the cultivation of collective coherence and peace will adjust and re-group to circumstance. Adversity goes with life in the world. Not even the loss of Girish Varma from this work will set this larger project of high-minded human endeavor back but instead give us further resolve to push ahead and complete the research towards what is an evident much greater spiritual good of all in science. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in the Dome Merudanda writes: Ohh there are over 2,600 panditsover there, (only)about five per cent have gone AWOL (absent without leave) Goldstein told PTI in an email. What kind of an argument! Seems someone read FFL's 10% headline http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: More on the Missing Pundits
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Friends; Shrinkage naturally happens in any organization. Certainly not every person needs to belong to or is suited to every organization. That some of these people would jump the fence could be expected given the amazing opportunity in life that America offers otherwise with its material freedoms in bills of rights and due process presenting to immigrants. That is in all of our collective histories. These articles and these posts arriving on FFL are just muck-racking by haters. Talk about vultures, this research project in consciousness is a long ways from dead and over. But like life itself this larger inquiry in to the sound value of Vedic chanting as scientific and valid human spiritual practice for the cultivation of collective coherence and peace will adjust and re-group to circumstance. Adversity goes with life in the world. Not even the loss of Girish Varma from this work will set this larger project of high-minded human endeavor back but instead give us further resolve to push ahead and complete the research towards what is an evident much greater spiritual good of all in science. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in the Dome Buck in the Dome:
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
The very fact that you have a group of people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire should tell you more than the pipe dream of TMSP Created World Peace - but I reckon you just ain't gonna believe nothin' till you die, get to Heaven and find out that Marshy has taken Saint Pete's job but he won't let you in till you give him a bribe and provide him with a whore. How's that for some top shelf TM blasphemy? On Tue, 1/28/14, dhamiltony...@yahoo.com dhamiltony...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014, 2:50 PM Friends; Shrinkage naturally happens in any organization. Certainly not every person needs to belong to or is suited to every organization. That some of these people would jump the fence could be expected given the amazing opportunity in life that America offers otherwise with its material freedoms in bills of rights and due process presenting to immigrants. That is in all of our collective histories. These articles and these posts arriving on FFL are just muck-racking by haters. Talk about vultures, this research project in consciousness is a long ways from dead and over. But like life itself this larger inquiry in to the sound value of Vedic chanting as scientific and valid human spiritual practice for the cultivation of collective coherence and peace will adjust and re-group to circumstance. Adversity goes with life in the world. Not even the loss of Girish Varma from this work will set this larger project of high-minded human endeavor back but instead give us further resolve to push ahead and complete the research towards what is an evident much greater spiritual good of all in science. Jai Guru Dev, -Buck in the Dome Merudanda writes: Ohh there are over 2,600 panditsover there, (only)about five per centhave gone AWOL (absent without leave) Goldstein told PTI in an email. What kind of an argument! Seems someone read FFL's 10% headline http://www.rediff.com/news/report/only-five-per-cent-of-vedic-pandits-have-gone-missing-in-us/20140128.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: More on the Missing Pundits
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: The very fact that you have a group of people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire should tell you more than the pipe dream of TMSP Created World Peace - but I reckon you just ain't gonna believe nothin' till you die, get to Heaven and find out that Marshy has taken Saint Pete's job but he won't let you in till you give him a bribe and provide him with a whore. How's that for some top shelf TM blasphemy? I can do better. It's a *million dollar whore*, and as with the people who paid that much for a one-month course that promised enlightenment but didn't deliver, when you get her to your room there in Heaven, you find that she doesn't have a pussy. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More on the Missing Pundits
that's too rough even for me! On Tue, 1/28/14, TurquoiseB turquoi...@yahoo.com wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More on the Missing Pundits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014, 4:47 PM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: The very fact that you have a group of people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire should tell you more than the pipe dream of TMSP Created World Peace - but I reckon you just ain't gonna believe nothin' till you die, get to Heaven and find out that Marshy has taken Saint Pete's job but he won't let you in till you give him a bribe and provide him with a whore. How's that for some top shelf TM blasphemy? I can do better. It's a *million dollar whore*, and as with the people who paid that much for a one-month course that promised enlightenment but didn't deliver, when you get her to your room there in Heaven, you find that she doesn't have a pussy. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: More on the Missing Pundits
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: that's too rough even for me! :-) On Tue, 1/28/14, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: The very fact that you have a group of people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire should tell you more than the pipe dream of TMSP Created World Peace - but I reckon you just ain't gonna believe nothin' till you die, get to Heaven and find out that Marshy has taken Saint Pete's job but he won't let you in till you give him a bribe and provide him with a whore. How's that for some top shelf TM blasphemy? I can do better. It's a *million dollar whore*, and as with the people who paid that much for a one-month course that promised enlightenment but didn't deliver, when you get her to your room there in Heaven, you find that she doesn't have a pussy. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
Who didn't figure that once that MMY kicked the bucket that the TMO would start falling apart? Happens with lot of organizations once the leader dies. On 01/28/2014 08:23 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: The very fact that you have a group of people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire should tell you more than the pipe dream of TMSP Created World Peace - but I reckon you just ain't gonna believe nothin' till you die, get to Heaven and find out that Marshy has taken Saint Pete's job but he won't let you in till you give him a bribe and provide him with a whore.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
On 1/28/2014 10:23 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire The pandit boys could walk out the front gate if they wanted to - they would not have to go over the fence. From what I've read, the fence was to keep the girls from the nearby middle school OUT of the pandit compound. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
you're still an idiot - the pundit compound did not initially have a fence or guards - MUM put them in plae AFTER the first so-called pundits hit the bricks and headed for parts unknown or at least the closest bar - they claimed when Oprah asked about the fence and guards it was for the protection of the pundits so no one could harm them. Like anyone in Fairfield would. Go figure as you love to say. On Tue, 1/28/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014, 7:04 PM On 1/28/2014 10:23 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire The pandit boys could walk out the front gate if they wanted to - they would not have to go over the fence. From what I've read, the fence was to keep the girls from the nearby middle school OUT of the pandit compound. Go figure.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits fencing
As I recall initially the pundits were housed next to the MUM campus NOT Vedic city there homes WSERE surrounded by fences to keep people from visiting the pundits we were told or disturbing them. No guards However there own pundit watchers or there senior pundit men there usually near or present, on there side of the fence. They were housed there till Vedic city homes were made ready 4 them with kitchens etc. In a message dated 1/28/2014 2:45:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mjackso...@yahoo.com writes: you're still an idiot - the pundit compound did not initially have a fence or guards - MUM put them in plae AFTER the first so-called pundits hit the bricks and headed for parts unknown or at least the closest bar - they claimed when Oprah asked about the fence and guards it was for the protection of the pundits so no one could harm them. Like anyone in Fairfield would. Go figure as you love to say. On Tue, 1/28/14, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 28, 2014, 7:04 PM On 1/28/2014 10:23 AM, Michael Jackson wrote: people who are supposed to be in Fairfield saving the world and they have to be kept fenced in behind barbed wire The pandit boys could walk out the front gate if they wanted to - they would not have to go over the fence. From what I've read, the fence was to keep the girls from the nearby middle school OUT of the pandit compound. Go figure. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More on the Missing Pundits
On 1/28/2014 1:45 PM, Michael Jackson wrote: Oprah asked about the fence and guards it was for the protection of the pundits so no one could harm them. Like anyone in Fairfield would. Go figure as you love to say. So, why would you want to harm some poor Hindu pundit boys? That's what I can't figure out.
[FairfieldLife] RE: More Wacky News: Charles Manson is Getting Married
I understand that former Manson Family members are some of the richest prisoners in the US system, owing to their notoriety. It doesn't do them any good as they can't access the (ill-gotten) gains while they are incarcerated. And no way is Charlie ever going to be released. But if he were to marry Star she would presumably inherit his wealth when he kicks the bucket. Nice one - especially as Manson is likely only to have a few years of life left in him (he's 79). ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, jr_esq@... wrote: The fiancee believes the marriage will happen. But Manson states it's all a lie for media attention. It appears that Manson knows how to get the attention in spite of serving a life sentence in prison. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/charles-manson-married-star-25-_n_4317253.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp0592#slide=more326422 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/21/charles-manson-married-star-25-_n_4317253.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp0592#slide=more326422
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Watchables
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Gettin' ready to watch Slingblade again, haven't seen it in a while. Great soundtrack by Daniel Lanois, too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More Watchables
What a relief - now that I've heard from the movie critics - now I can get back to work in the office. Thanks for this valuable information - I'll put this show on my bucket list. LoL! On 11/13/2013 3:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Gettin' ready to watch Slingblade again, haven't seen it in a while. Great soundtrack by Daniel Lanois, too.
[FairfieldLife] RE: More Watchables
Small willy-toter here is like this mosquito who refuses to shut up and go away while you're lying in the dark trying to just get some sleep. My God, he was that kid on the playground who didn't have friends so he just stood over by the jungle jim taunting and yelling nerdy, predictable comments to the other kids having fun on the playground until the bell rang. Anybody got a bell - or a fly swatter? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: What a relief - now that I've heard from the movie critics - now I can get back to work in the office. Thanks for this valuable information - I'll put this show on my bucket list. LoL! On 11/13/2013 3:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Gettin' ready to watch Slingblade again, haven't seen it in a while. Great soundtrack by Daniel Lanois, too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: More Watchables
Wow! It didn't take long for this thread to go to shit. Now, let's get to work in the office - that's what they're paying us for, right? On 11/13/2013 8:44 AM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com wrote: Small willy-toter here is like this mosquito who refuses to shut up and go away while you're lying in the dark trying to just get some sleep. My God, he was that kid on the playground who didn't have friends so he just stood over by the jungle jim taunting and yelling nerdy, predictable comments to the other kids having fun on the playground until the bell rang. Anybody got a bell - or a fly swatter? ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, punditster@... wrote: What a relief - now that I've heard from the movie critics - now I can get back to work in the office. Thanks for this valuable information - I'll put this show on my bucket list. LoL! On 11/13/2013 3:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Gettin' ready to watch Slingblade again, haven't seen it in a while. Great soundtrack by Daniel Lanois, too.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More Watchables
Gotta give you something to watch with all that TV gear you bought. You must be getting tired of Hillbilly Handfishing and Swamp People reruns these days. On 11/13/2013 06:37 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: What a relief - now that I've heard from the movie critics - now I can get back to work in the office. Thanks for this valuable information - I'll put this show on my bucket list. LoL! On 11/13/2013 3:13 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: Gettin' ready to watch Slingblade again, haven't seen it in a while. Great soundtrack by Daniel Lanois, too.
[FairfieldLife] RE: More Beauty For The Whole World To Enjoy
This is such an extraordinary story. It would be astonishing even without the connection to Nazi looting and Hitler's ideas on degenerate art. But with that background, it just takes your breath away. Here's a NYTimes report with a slide show of seven of the most impressive works in this treasure trove: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/arts/design/german-officials-provide-details-on-looted-art-trove.html?ref=design Apparently these are photos of slides shown by the German authorities at the press conference announcing the find, so they aren't the best reproductions, but they're decent-sized, and you certainly can get enough of a flavor of the quality of the works (especially the stunning Matisse) to appreciate the importance of the discovery. This is another Times piece on the find, a moving historical perspective with detailed commentary on several of the works and artists: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/06/arts/design/in-a-rediscovered-trove-of-art-a-triumph-over-the-nazis-will.html More on the Nazis' exhibit of degenerate art: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art#The_Entartete_Kunst_exhibit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art#The_Entartete_Kunst_exhibit http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24819441 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24819441 About three times as many people attended this exhibit as attended another one of Nazi-approved art (much of it propagandistic) running at the same time. It's not hard to imagine that many of the visitors to the degenerate exhibit came not to sneer and criticize but to appreciate the much higher quality of its works before the Nazis did away with them. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater@... wrote: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/11/05/hoard_of_1400_nazilooted_art_includes_chagall_matisse_picasso.html?google_editors_picks=true http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/11/05/hoard_of_1400_nazilooted_art_includes_chagall_matisse_picasso.html?google_editors_picks=true
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Yahoo! features
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: I suspect you'll need to clear all your cookies to get the Neo interface. That's what I did with Chrome. On Firefox I cleared the cookie that had to do with Fairfield life but apparently that was not enough. I still get the old web site on Firefox. Been there, done that, and I still get the old interface. Cleared the cookies, cleared the cache, have logged in to many different Net providers and thus have had to log in to Yahoo! several times, and I still get the old interface. I have to believe it's because they've stopped forcibly rolling it out to French users until they've gotten some of the bugs worked out. BTW, I suggested that CNET cover the Neo furor this morning in the comment section in their article on the new logo. Undoubtedly I'll get a few visceral replies from the SV wannabees who are rah-rah for anything SV. They are such putzes. On 09/05/2013 10:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote: Just so y'all know it's not just you Chosen Few who have been selected to be the early-adopter beta testers for Neo who are suffering, the old interface has gone bonkers, too. For some reason (probably the fact that the French very vocally resist being used as guinea pigs for untested software), I'm still on the old interface. It switches over periodically, but then the minute I log in, it switches me back to the Old Favorite. But it's not. *It* keeps changing and freaking out, too. Whatever the Yahoo! pseudo-developers are doing to Neo, it's affecting the old interface, too. The quoting of text only works about half the time. And today at least three posts I've made have disappeared into the Black Hole Of Yahoo!, never to reappear. Those who don't like my posts may interpret this more as the functioning of the Laws Of Nature than another fuckup on the part of Yahoo! Then again, why would those who don't like my posts be reading them, far enough to read this? How does *that* fit into the Laws Of Nature? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: More than Meditating U need to Fly
And the URL to go to is...? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Calling all applicants for the new Settle Grant. Urgent The Howard and Alice Settle Foundation would like to kindly request all applicants for the new grant to fill out a new survey. This one is really not so much a survey as a questionnaire giving you the opportunity to understand and accept the new grant requirements which have now been decided upon. Please go to:
[FairfieldLife] Re: More good news from Raja Luis
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays wrote: Forwarded from: Margot Suettmann msuettmann@... More news from Raja Luis: In Peru a presentation by the local Governors to 200 school directors became so full of bliss and filled with the joy of life, that the feeling became viral, and resulted in the directors requesting Consciousness-Based Education for another 300,000 students in their areas. Great news, thanks for posting. There are 27 million in that country - perhaps the time is ripe for learning spanish and polish the Puja-set !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More good news from Raja Luis
They speak Polish in Peru? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 2:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More good news from Raja Luis --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays wrote: Forwarded from: Margot Suettmann msuettmann@... More news from Raja Luis: In Peru a presentation by the local Governors to 200 school directors became so full of bliss and filled with the joy of life, that the feeling became viral, and resulted in the directors requesting Consciousness-Based Education for another 300,000 students in their areas. Great news, thanks for posting. There are 27 million in that country - perhaps the time is ripe for learning spanish and polish the Puja-set !
[FairfieldLife] Re: More good news from Raja Luis
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@... wrote: They speak Polish in Peru? So funny, the first time I read it I thought the same thing. But then what is a Polish puja set or what is it to Polish a puja set? From: nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 2:50 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: More good news from Raja Luis  --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Dick Mays wrote: Forwarded from: Margot Suettmann msuettmann@ More news from Raja Luis: In Peru a presentation by the local Governors to 200 school directors became so full of bliss and filled with the joy of life, that the feeling became viral, and resulted in the directors requesting Consciousness-Based Education for another 300,000 students in their areas. Great news, thanks for posting. There are 27 million in that country - perhaps the time is ripe for learning spanish and polish the Puja-set !
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
There are basicaly two types of policies, 'pro-market policies' and 'pro-business policies' 'Pro-market policies' enable those with merit and skills to rise to the top. It leads to overall and alround growth and development. It generates wealth for all. The entire economy benefits from it. 'Pro-business policies' benefit only big corporates and 'unfit corporates'. It leads to corruption. It leads to crony-capitalism. It also triggers income disparities across the population. It's important to maintain the distinction between the two. --- Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: But he is right about what went wrong with it. On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html --- Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
On 05/28/2013 05:38 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ Wasn't pulling rank. Just wanted to know what you ACTUALLY know about economics. It became kind of a hobby with me in the 1970s. I also know some economists. I'm not saying there is anything WRONG with Krugman but it might be a good idea to read a wide range of economists. FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing-the-90-percent-club-the-importance-of-the-reinhart-rogoff-error Stockman: The state-wreck originated in 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt opted for fiat money (currency not fundamentally backed by gold), economic nationalism and capitalist cartels in agriculture and industry. When I read blather like this about FDR who rightwingers have *always* hated for creating a social safety net as they attempt to dismantle the highly successful Medicare program of LBJ, I stop listening. Actually there are quite a number of commentators on the left that think the gold standard should have been maintained. Keynesian economics work just fine in countries that support education, social services and government run health care in countries like Denmark for example: Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-de_b_3339736.html BTW, when the right complains about Obamacare what they really don't like is the fact that if they don't purchase some healthcare insurance they'll get a fine. That's why they want the old system back so if they didn't purchase health insurance they wouldn't get fined. They actually might not have objected to single payer at all. I'm out of the equation being on Medicare. For too many years I paid extortion fees to Blue Cross. Iceland devalued its currency massively and imposed capital controls. And a strange thing has happened: although Iceland is generally considered to have experienced the worst financial crisis in history, its punishment has actually been substantially less than that of other nations...The moral of the story seems to be that if you're going to have a crisis, it's better to have a really, really bad one. Otherwise, you'll end up taking the advice of people who assure you that even more suffering will cure what ails you. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/the-icelandic-post-crisis-miracle/ That's because Iceland told the world banks to fuck off. Stockman also thinks the US should have told the banks to fuck off in 2008. I do too as do quite a number of people on the left. It would in the long run only hurt the selfish uber rich. Instead a bandage was slapped on the problem delayed the actual result which will hurt many people. The reason I posted Stockman's opt-ed was because it showed that even someone in the Reagan administration
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
Stockman's ideas have some merit. Meanwhile, the stock market is going as fast as he's saying to get out of it. It appears that the current rise of the stock market is fueled by pressure for fund managers to justify their salaries. IOW, they have to show some gains in their portfolios to maintain their jobs. If not, new people will be hired to replace the nonperformers. I haven't read Orlov's interview. I'll comment on it when time permits. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing-the-90-percent-club-the-importance-of-the-reinhart-rogoff-error Stockman: The state-wreck originated in 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt opted for fiat money (currency not fundamentally backed by gold), economic nationalism and capitalist cartels in agriculture and industry. When I read blather like this about FDR who rightwingers have *always* hated for creating a social safety net as they attempt to dismantle the highly successful Medicare program of LBJ, I stop listening. Keynesian economics work just fine in countries that support education, social services and government run health care in countries like Denmark for example: Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-de_b_3339736.html Iceland devalued its currency massively and imposed capital controls. And a strange thing has happened: although Iceland is generally considered to have experienced the worst financial crisis in history, its punishment has actually been substantially less than that of other nations...The moral of the story seems to be that if you're going to have a crisis, it's better to have a really, really bad one. Otherwise, you'll end up taking the advice of people who assure you that even more suffering will cure what ails you. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/the-icelandic-post-crisis-miracle/ Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-fiscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruction/
[FairfieldLife] Re: More 'bout the rich dudes war on the people
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: On 05/28/2013 02:21 PM, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu wrote: Remember Reagan's Morning in America? Well, you might want to read David Stockman's op-ed in the New York Times called Sundown in America. Stockman was Reagan's budget director and reiterates what some of us have been saying about the 2008 bail out that should NOT have happened. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/31/opinion/sunday/sundown-in-america.html\ ?pagewanted=all_r=0 David Stockman is a Libertarian who sides with the deficit hawks. He is completely WRONG about how to fix the economy. But he is right about what went wrong with it. Krugman and others take Stockman to task here: http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2013/03/david-stockman-\ goes-way-way-over-the-top.html So how well do YOU understand economics? Enough to judge whether Krugman is correct?I know a lot of liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman that don't know shit about economics but they want cheer for the home team. Krugman is one solution but there may well be other workable solutions which is something I learned from studying economics. Your straw man that liberals who are rah-rah for Krugman don't know shit about economics doesn't hold up to the fact that Krugman has a record of accurate predictions. http://www.hamilton.edu/documents/An-Analysis-of-the-Accuracy-of-Forecas\ ts-in-the-Political-Media.pdf No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing\ -the-90-percent-club-the-importance-of-the-reinhart-rogoff-error Stockman: The state-wreck originated in 1933, when Franklin D. Roosevelt opted for fiat money (currency not fundamentally backed by gold), economic nationalism and capitalist cartels in agriculture and industry. When I read blather like this about FDR who rightwingers have *always* hated for creating a social safety net as they attempt to dismantle the highly successful Medicare program of LBJ, I stop listening. Keynesian economics work just fine in countries that support education, social services and government run health care in countries like Denmark for example: Health care in Denmark is universal, free of charge and high quality. Everybody is covered as a right of citizenship. The Danish health care system is popular, with patient satisfaction much higher than in our country. In Denmark, every citizen can choose a doctor in their area. Prescription drugs are inexpensive and free for those under 18 years of age. Interestingly, despite their universal coverage, the Danish health care system is far more cost-effective than ours. They spend about 11 percent of their GDP on health care. We spend almost 18 percent. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders/what-can-we-learn-from-\ de_b_3339736.html Iceland devalued its currency massively and imposed capital controls. And a strange thing has happened: although Iceland is generally considered to have experienced the worst financial crisis in history, its punishment has actually been substantially less than that of other nations...The moral of the story seems to be that if you're going to have a crisis, it's better to have a really, really bad one. Otherwise, you'll end up taking the advice of people who assure you that even more suffering will cure what ails you. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/30/the-icelandic-post-crisis-mi\ racle/ Youtube: Stephanopoulos, David Stockman Paul Krugman http://theweek.com/article/index/242122/6-takedowns-of-david-stockmans-f\ iscal-end-times-rant-in-the-new-york-times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7wkMwz5l0A And I mention Dmitri Orlov from time to time and here is an podcast interview with him preceded by an interview with Chris Hedges. Lots of food for thought. http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/05/20/episode-60-days-destruct\ ion/ No need to pull rank, just make your case. I haven't studied economics but I have regularly read Paul Krugman, Naked Capitalism and Center for Economic Policy and Research and a few other anti-austerity economists: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/ http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/ http://www.cepr.net/ FYI CEPR among others reported that austerity nuts, Reinhart/Rogoff fucked up royally. http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds--columns/op-eds--columns/crashing\
[FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
Barry, You seem to forget the situation in Paris and anywhere else in France. Recently, there have been unrest and riots in Paris for many reasons, including those perpetrated by terrorists. I don't believe you're any safer over there than here in the USA. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Some still have the ability to think, and more important, *write* about the larger issues revealed by the events in Boston: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/20/how_boston_exposes_americas_dark_post_911_bargain/ For those who are going to try to write this guy off as some kind of whiny politico, Andrew O'Hehir is Salon.com's regular film critic. It's just that, like Roger Ebert, he does not feel the need to limit the subjects he writes about *to* film. Here he takes on the dark underbelly of America since 9/11, the thing that ALL expats I've met in Europe know about, and the main reason we're here, and not there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
Some still have the ability to think, and more important, *write* about the larger issues revealed by the events in Boston: Bhairitu: ...I spent the whole day yesterday dodging terrorists. Very impressive! So, you're dodging terrorists all day in downtown Oakland?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
On 04/21/2013 09:43 AM, Richard J. Williams wrote: Some still have the ability to think, and more important, *write* about the larger issues revealed by the events in Boston: Bhairitu: ...I spent the whole day yesterday dodging terrorists. Very impressive! So, you're dodging terrorists all day in downtown Oakland? You missed my punchline. Read my whole post not just part of it. :-D
[FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
...I spent the whole day yesterday dodging terrorists. Very impressive! So, you're dodging terrorists all day in downtown Oakland? Bhairitu: You missed my punchline. Read my whole post not just part of it. :-D That the Boston terrorists are for you the Oakland drivers?
[FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: Barry, You seem to forget the situation in Paris and anywhere else in France. Recently, there have been unrest and riots in Paris for many reasons, including those perpetrated by terrorists. I don't believe you're any safer over there than here in the USA. [ Trying my best to capture John Cleese's inflection when speaking this line in A Fish Called Wanda ] Are you DERANGED? NO ONE is safe anywhere. But those of us who live in civilized countries that value freedom more than we do the illusion of safety don't let that fuck up our day. You can cower under your bed and fear Big Bad Terror- ists lurking around every corner if you want to. Me, I'll sit in sidewalk cafes like the one I'm in, and enjoy the night air. John if you haven't traveled outside the US in recent years, you really have no idea how paranoid and stupid Americans are regarded by the rest of the world. As Bhairitu's Benjamin Franklin quote pointed out, you are willing to trade loss of your rights -- including loss of your right to think for yourself -- for a little safety. May it bring you peace as you cower in your houses, terrified of terrorists. As I've said before a couple of times, it's people like YOU that make terrorism WORK. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Some still have the ability to think, and more important, *write* about the larger issues revealed by the events in Boston: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/20/how_boston_exposes_americas_dark_post_911_bargain/ For those who are going to try to write this guy off as some kind of whiny politico, Andrew O'Hehir is Salon.com's regular film critic. It's just that, like Roger Ebert, he does not feel the need to limit the subjects he writes about *to* film. Here he takes on the dark underbelly of America since 9/11, the thing that ALL expats I've met in Europe know about, and the main reason we're here, and not there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@... wrote: Barry, You seem to forget the situation in Paris and anywhere else in France. Recently, there have been unrest and riots in Paris for many reasons, including those perpetrated by terrorists. I don't believe you're any safer over there than here in the USA. John, I think Barry is probably not arguing that France or Europe in general is safer than the US, just that if they bombed the Eiffel Tower and 200 people were injured and three killed they wouldn't whine about it like the Americans. They would simply take a drag on their Gauloises and tuck their bottle of table wine a little tighter under their arm thinking what a small inconvenience it all was. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Some still have the ability to think, and more important, *write* about the larger issues revealed by the events in Boston: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/20/how_boston_exposes_americas_dark_post_911_bargain/ For those who are going to try to write this guy off as some kind of whiny politico, Andrew O'Hehir is Salon.com's regular film critic. It's just that, like Roger Ebert, he does not feel the need to limit the subjects he writes about *to* film. Here he takes on the dark underbelly of America since 9/11, the thing that ALL expats I've met in Europe know about, and the main reason we're here, and not there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More proof that not everyone in America is insane
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann awoelflebater@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: Barry, You seem to forget the situation in Paris and anywhere else in France. Recently, there have been unrest and riots in Paris for many reasons, including those perpetrated by terrorists. I don't believe you're any safer over there than here in the USA. John, I think Barry is probably not arguing that France or Europe in general is safer than the US, just that if they bombed the Eiffel Tower and 200 people were injured and three killed they wouldn't whine about it like the Americans. They would simply take a drag on their Gauloises and tuck their bottle of table wine a little tighter under their arm thinking what a small inconvenience it all was. Ann, The French have a reputation to keep and to present Paris the way it is. It's not good business to scare away the Americans from visiting their capital city. If you fly in to the airport, you'll be impressed of the high tech architecture and decor. But you'll also notice that they have policemen patrolling the area with Uzzis and semi-automatic guns. In short, Barry is full of BS. JR --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Some still have the ability to think, and more important, *write* about the larger issues revealed by the events in Boston: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/20/how_boston_exposes_americas_dark_post_911_bargain/ For those who are going to try to write this guy off as some kind of whiny politico, Andrew O'Hehir is Salon.com's regular film critic. It's just that, like Roger Ebert, he does not feel the need to limit the subjects he writes about *to* film. Here he takes on the dark underbelly of America since 9/11, the thing that ALL expats I've met in Europe know about, and the main reason we're here, and not there.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More on Nagel's Mind Cosmos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Interesting, yes, but I think it misses the point. The first comment on that post does a good job explaining the real point, but Feser's response to it completely misses it again! Well at first I thought no, it's commenter Ingx24 that has mised the point. Then hang on, maybe not. That's because there do seem to be two closely related issues: * The existence of mental stuff (the itch sensation experienced by Judy) - qualia * The existence of things that can *have* qualia (Judy) Whether this is a good distinction, I don't know. But I think Feser is primarily focused on the first issue in his blog post, whereas Ingx24 is interested in the second. Having said that, I wonder if Ingx24 just set Feser going by putting it in these terms: Why should physical processing give rise to a rich inner life at all? It seems objectively unreasonable that it should, and yet it does. That seems to be about the first issue. And in putting it like this he/she wears her Cartesianism on her sleeve. She seems to be saying that we *know* that the self, the person, consciousness *is* physical processing, thereby signing up 100% to the materialist side of the Cartesian dualism. Feser (I assume) would not grant that assumption. To put it another way, the question isn't why things-- including mental experience--seem to us the way they do, but *why should there be such a thing as seeming* in the first place? Feser or no Feser, that particular itch just won't go away. I think Feser's route would involve navigating through a very tangled thicket of Aristotelean ideas of 'matter', 'form' and 'substance'. Oh, Lordie! http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/ So much philosophical discussion of consciousness takes seeming for granted, when it's the very thing that requires explanation. Indeed. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: This is an interesting blog post IMO: http://edwardfeser.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/nagel-and-his- critics-part-viii.html Or http://goo.gl/QulfS How much of our existential anguish can be laid at the feet of Monsieur R. Descartes? From the concrete material objects of everyday life, Descartes and the moderns who have followed him derived two abstractions (as I discussed in an earlier post). First, they abstracted out those features that could be captured in exclusively quantitative terms, reified this abstraction, and called that reified abstraction matter, or the physical, or that which is objective. Second, they abstracted those qualitative features that would not fit the first, quantitative picture, reified that abstraction, and called it the mental, or that which is subjective. Once this move was made, there was never in principle going to be a way to get mind and matter together again, since they were in effect defined by contrast with one another.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More on Nagel's Mind Cosmos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Interesting, yes, but I think it misses the point. The first comment on that post does a good job explaining the real point, but Feser's response to it completely misses it again! Well at first I thought no, it's commenter Ingx24 that has mised the point. Then hang on, maybe not. That's because there do seem to be two closely related issues: * The existence of mental stuff (the itch sensation experienced by Judy) - qualia * The existence of things that can *have* qualia (Judy) Whether this is a good distinction, I don't know. But I think Feser is primarily focused on the first issue in his blog post, whereas Ingx24 is interested in the second. It's an important distinction qua distinction, but Feser explicitly identifies the hard problem as a function of Cartesian dualism, whereas Chalmers--who coined the term--is interested in the more fundamental issue of, as you put it, the existence of things that can *have* qualia--the phenomenon of seeming. Having said that, I wonder if Ingx24 just set Feser going by putting it in these terms: Why should physical processing give rise to a rich inner life at all? It seems objectively unreasonable that it should, and yet it does. That seems to be about the first issue. And in putting it like this he/she wears her Cartesianism on her sleeve. She seems to be saying that we *know* that the self, the person, consciousness *is* physical processing, thereby signing up 100% to the materialist side of the Cartesian dualism. Feser (I assume) would not grant that assumption. To put it another way, the question isn't why things-- including mental experience--seem to us the way they do, but *why should there be such a thing as seeming* in the first place? Feser or no Feser, that particular itch just won't go away. I think Feser's route would involve navigating through a very tangled thicket of Aristotelean ideas of 'matter', 'form' and 'substance'. Oh, Lordie! http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/ Yeah, never mind! So much philosophical discussion of consciousness takes seeming for granted, when it's the very thing that requires explanation. Indeed. If you don't *start* with that, it seems to me you're never going to get there from anywhere else. But does the fact that what you're looking *for* is what you're looking *with*, as it were, leave you in an ouroboric circle that you can't break out of? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: This is an interesting blog post IMO: http://edwardfeser.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/nagel-and-his- critics-part-viii.html Or http://goo.gl/QulfS How much of our existential anguish can be laid at the feet of Monsieur R. Descartes? From the concrete material objects of everyday life, Descartes and the moderns who have followed him derived two abstractions (as I discussed in an earlier post). First, they abstracted out those features that could be captured in exclusively quantitative terms, reified this abstraction, and called that reified abstraction matter, or the physical, or that which is objective. Second, they abstracted those qualitative features that would not fit the first, quantitative picture, reified that abstraction, and called it the mental, or that which is subjective. Once this move was made, there was never in principle going to be a way to get mind and matter together again, since they were in effect defined by contrast with one another.
[FairfieldLife] Re: More Born-Again Humor
Interesting, I went on the same Jesus Easter Jokes google search and rejected these as un-funny. Guess one woman's reject pile is another man's treasure trove of humour. It is almost not Easter any more, then what shall we play? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Unorignal Sin [http://img5.visualizeus.com/thumbs/3d/54/atheism,funny,jesus,poster,rel\ igion,stupid-3d5472d1118af053d3ca5b4f08464d1c_h.jpg] If Jesus was like MMY and Girish
[FairfieldLife] Re: More on Nagel's Mind Cosmos
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Interesting, yes, but I think it misses the point. The first comment on that post does a good job explaining the real point, but Feser's response to it completely misses it again! Well at first I thought no, it's commenter Ingx24 that has mised the point. Then hang on, maybe not. That's because there do seem to be two closely related issues: * The existence of mental stuff (the itch sensation experienced by Judy) - qualia * The existence of things that can *have* qualia (Judy) Whether this is a good distinction, I don't know. But I think Feser is primarily focused on the first issue in his blog post, whereas Ingx24 is interested in the second. It's an important distinction qua distinction, but Feser explicitly identifies the hard problem as a function of Cartesian dualism, whereas Chalmers--who coined the term--is interested in the more fundamental issue of, as you put it, the existence of things that can *have* qualia--the phenomenon of seeming. Having said that, I wonder if Ingx24 just set Feser going by putting it in these terms: Why should physical processing give rise to a rich inner life at all? It seems objectively unreasonable that it should, and yet it does. That seems to be about the first issue. And in putting it like this he/she wears her Cartesianism on her sleeve. She seems to be saying that we *know* that the self, the person, consciousness *is* physical processing, thereby signing up 100% to the materialist side of the Cartesian dualism. Feser (I assume) would not grant that assumption. To put it another way, the question isn't why things-- including mental experience--seem to us the way they do, but *why should there be such a thing as seeming* in the first place? Feser or no Feser, that particular itch just won't go away. I think Feser's route would involve navigating through a very tangled thicket of Aristotelean ideas of 'matter', 'form' and 'substance'. Oh, Lordie! http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/ Yeah, never mind! So much philosophical discussion of consciousness takes seeming for granted, when it's the very thing that requires explanation. Indeed. If you don't *start* with that, it seems to me you're never going to get there from anywhere else. But does the fact that what you're looking *for* is what you're looking *with*, as it were, leave you in an ouroboric circle that you can't break out of? The world is illusion; only Brahman is real; the world is Brahman. There is a circularity that the intellect cannot get out of; if true, the problem cannot be resolved by thinking about it. If we suppose there is a kind of experience that resolves the matter (e.g., enlightenment) it would not be possible to explain that experience in a way that ultimately made sense. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, PaliGap compost1uk@ wrote: This is an interesting blog post IMO: http://edwardfeser.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/nagel-and-his- critics-part-viii.html Or http://goo.gl/QulfS How much of our existential anguish can be laid at the feet of Monsieur R. Descartes? From the concrete material objects of everyday life, Descartes and the moderns who have followed him derived two abstractions (as I discussed in an earlier post). First, they abstracted out those features that could be captured in exclusively quantitative terms, reified this abstraction, and called that reified abstraction matter, or the physical, or that which is objective. Second, they abstracted those qualitative features that would not fit the first, quantitative picture, reified that abstraction, and called it the mental, or that which is subjective. Once this move was made, there was never in principle going to be a way to get mind and matter together again, since they were in effect defined by contrast with one another.
