Re: [Felvtalk] Buzzy still has hemolytic anemia
Jane, Your bliss therapy does not sound nuts at all! When Buzz was so sick in the summer time I used to take him out on my deck and give him Reiki treatments. Then I would just pet him and love him. I am SURE that is part of what helped him so much at that time. Unfortunately the deck is not such a pleasant place right now. He probably would not have been able to relax if we were sitting out there in the middle of the sleet/rain/snow and wind storm we had last night. I'm glad MeMe was able to be so happy after being so abused. I just can't believe what some people will do.Buzzy was abused by some inner city Cleveland gangs before my brothers wife saved him. He is still a very nervous cat. The only times he will completely relax and purr are out on the deck and in bed at night. Every time I pass him I reach down and give him a caress which he seems to enjoy, but he really dislikes being held. I will look forward to hearing from Hideyo. Thank you for all your help. Sue Jane Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sue I can ask Hideyo ...hopefully I can get an answer for you tomorrow. I hope it is something that can be put into remission, but I am not sure. I know how much you care for Buzz and I am sure that he knows that ... a great immune system booster. When Me Me was in the throes of fighting a terrible upper respiratory, we used to do 15 minute intervals of bliss therapy throughout the day. She loved being combed and she would roll and around and purr deeply almost vibrate. I know this sounds nuts, but I am sure the sheer pleasure of being loved and cared for (she had been thrown from a car window onto the porch of a 'shelter' as a kitten) helped her immune system. We do everything we can to help them fight this virus. We know that ultimately they are on their own path, and that they will let us know when they want to let go. Hopefully Hideyo will be able to answer your questions. Give Buzz a buzz from us. Jane On Oct 28, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sue Frank Koren wrote: Jane, Thank you for your help. Buzz is not doing too badly, we caught it when his blood levels were in the twenties this time. Last time he was down to eight. We have been testing his blood every other week and I purchased a pet scale to monitor his weight more closely. I guess it is Leukeran that he will be on. That is what the pharmacies had. The Chlorambucil must be the generic. Dr. Tom gives me the name of the medication and the dosage and lets me call around to the pharmacies to find the best price. For 15 2mg tablets of Leuctra the price ranged from $49.44 to $77.99. Do you know if they can ever go off of the Leukeran once they are on it? Is hemolytic anemia something they can beat for good or will it keep coming back? Thanks again for your help, Sue - Original Message - From: Jane Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Buzzy still has hemolytic anemia Sue I talked with Hideyo (former list member) who said that she has heard of people who have had good results with Leukeran. She also said to caution you to be patient when going back on the full strength Predinisole. It sometimes does not work right away. Something is wrong with her computer but if she gets up and running I'll try to connect you. Hope Buzz is having a good day. Jane ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety instinct,etc), clean the litterbox and dishes daily and have more than one box, vaccuum and keep them flea and worm free, as well as spend time playing with the kittens and giving them affection, toys, warm places to sleep. There are no guarantees but it is possible to go from positive to negative. Just takes dedication and having hope... And others will tell you a felv positive diagnosis is not a death sentence! There are plenty of people here who have healthy cats with felv that have had long lives. I don't know about financial assistance, but you should try and talk to your vet about payment options. The cheapest ELISA test I found ran about $25-30 here in LA. Also, you can do you best to change their positive status to negative in the next few months. Even if they don't, you can adopt them out when they are a bit older after you've tried or just try to adopt them out now and tell people they are positive for now but could change.. On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:51 PM, SALLY NORDSTROM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm getting real confused about the available tests and their accuracy. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I had to file a bankruptcy and can't afford testing. Is there someplace that can give me help? How hard is it going to be to place my rescued kittens in homes? What resources should I be using? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
You and the others on this site are ANGELS! You will be glad to know that I stopped crying, called my vet, and have a plan of action. Please, keep us in your hearts and heads, I will be asking a lot of questions in the months to come because I am keeping the mom. --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] tests To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:36 AM The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety instinct,etc), clean the litterbox and dishes daily and have more than one box, vaccuum and keep them flea and worm free, as well as spend time playing with the kittens and giving them affection, toys, warm places to sleep. There are no guarantees but it is possible to go from positive to negative. Just takes dedication and having hope... And others will tell you a felv positive diagnosis is not a death sentence! There are plenty of people here who have healthy cats with felv that have had long lives. I don't know about financial assistance, but you should try and talk to your vet about payment options. The cheapest ELISA test I found ran about $25-30 here in LA. Also, you can do you best to change their positive status to negative in the next few months. Even if they don't, you can adopt them out when they are a bit older after you've tried or just try to adopt them out now and tell people they are positive for now but could change.. On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:51 PM, SALLY NORDSTROM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm getting real confused about the available tests and their accuracy. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I had to file a bankruptcy and can't afford testing. Is there someplace that can give me help? How hard is it going to be to place my rescued kittens in homes? What resources should I be using? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
Welcome, Sally. I'm glad you got so many good answers so quickly -- we've all been through what you're going through now, some many times over. It's great that you and your vet are working together on this and that you already have a plan. Best of luck to you and the kitties. Nobody can guarantee that there won't still be some crying down the road for you, but at least it won't be from powerlessness and lack of information. This list is a great source of advice, emotional support and good information. Many of us, like me, don't even have an FeLV+ cat anymore, we just stuck around because everybody is so nice! Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 10:43 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] tests You and the others on this site are ANGELS! You will be glad to know that I stopped crying, called my vet, and have a plan of action. Please, keep us in your hearts and heads, I will be asking a lot of questions in the months to come because I am keeping the mom. --- On Wed, 10/29/08, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] tests To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 10:36 AM The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety instinct,etc), clean the litterbox and dishes daily and have more than one box, vaccuum and keep them flea and worm free, as well as spend time playing with the kittens and giving them affection, toys, warm places to sleep. There are no guarantees but it is possible to go from positive to negative. Just takes dedication and having hope... And others will tell you a felv positive diagnosis is not a death sentence! There are plenty of people here who have healthy cats with felv that have had long lives. I don't know about financial assistance, but you should try and talk to your vet about payment options. The cheapest ELISA test I found ran about $25-30 here in LA. Also, you can do you best to change their positive status to negative in the next few months. Even if they don't, you can adopt them out when they are a bit older after you've tried or just try to adopt them out now and tell people they are positive for now but could change.. On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:51 PM, SALLY NORDSTROM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm getting real confused about the available tests and their accuracy. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I had to file a bankruptcy and can't afford testing. Is there someplace that can give me help? How hard is it going to be to place my rescued kittens in homes? What resources should I be using? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org This electronic mail transmission and any attachments are confidential and may be privileged. They should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the transmission from your system. In addition, in order to comply with Treasury Circular 230, we are required to inform you that unless we have
Re: [Felvtalk] Buzzy still has hemolytic anemia
question: what is reiki? since your deck isn't nice now, what about a sunny window. Buzz could lay in your lap, soak up the sun. i know what you mean about the weather. it is getting cold here in Missouri and we have the rain, sleet, snow and hail to look forwrd to. this is the hard part of the year for my cats. they want to go out and can't, even the neg ones. i don't want them getting wet and cold, just asking for problems. Homie refuses to come in, waits until she is half frozen and cannot deny that she is cold anymore. Annie is smart, you open the door, she feels one cold breeze and she backs up into her nice warm house. dorlis Sue Frank Koren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jane, Your bliss therapy does not sound nuts at all! When Buzz was so sick in the summer time I used to take him out on my deck and give him Reiki treatments. Then I would just pet him and love him. I am SURE that is part of what helped him so much at that time. Unfortunately the deck is not such a pleasant place right now. He probably would not have been able to relax if we were sitting out there in the middle of the sleet/rain/snow and wind storm we had last night. I'm glad MeMe was able to be so happy after being so abused. I just can't believe what some people will do.Buzzy was abused by some inner city Cleveland gangs before my brothers wife saved him. He is still a very nervous cat. The only times he will completely relax and purr are out on the deck and in bed at night. Every time I pass him I reach down and give him a caress which he seems to enjoy, but he really dislikes being held. I will look forward to hearing from Hideyo. Thank you for all your help. Sue Jane Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sue I can ask Hideyo ...hopefully I can get an answer for you tomorrow. I hope it is something that can be put into remission, but I am not sure. I know how much you care for Buzz and I am sure that he knows that ... a great immune system booster. When Me Me was in the throes of fighting a terrible upper respiratory, we used to do 15 minute intervals of bliss therapy throughout the day. She loved being combed and she would roll and around and purr deeply almost vibrate. I know this sounds nuts, but I am sure the sheer pleasure of being loved and cared for (she had been thrown from a car window onto the porch of a 'shelter' as a kitten) helped her immune system. We do everything we can to help them fight this virus. We know that ultimately they are on their own path, and that they will let us know when they want to let go. Hopefully Hideyo will be able to answer your questions. Give Buzz a buzz from us. Jane On Oct 28, 2008, at 8:02 PM, Sue Frank Koren wrote: Jane, Thank you for your help. Buzz is not doing too badly, we caught it when his blood levels were in the twenties this time. Last time he was down to eight. We have been testing his blood every other week and I purchased a pet scale to monitor his weight more closely. I guess it is Leukeran that he will be on. That is what the pharmacies had. The Chlorambucil must be the generic. Dr. Tom gives me the name of the medication and the dosage and lets me call around to the pharmacies to find the best price. For 15 2mg tablets of Leuctra the price ranged from $49.44 to $77.99. Do you know if they can ever go off of the Leukeran once they are on it? Is hemolytic anemia something they can beat for good or will it keep coming back? Thanks again for your help, Sue - Original Message - From: Jane Lyons [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Buzzy still has hemolytic anemia Sue I talked with Hideyo (former list member) who said that she has heard of people who have had good results with Leukeran. She also said to caution you to be patient when going back on the full strength Predinisole. It sometimes does not work right away. Something is wrong with her computer but if she gets up and running I'll try to connect you. Hope Buzz is having a good day. Jane ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
please provide information about the PCR test you're talking about. the last i'd heard, there were none available that wree consistently accurate and reliable--they've been working on this for a long time and haven't been able to establish a test that's acceptibly accurate across many labs. i know that they HAVE developed one for FIV to determine if the virus is vaccine-induced or not, but as of a month or so ago, it still wasn't commercially available, tho it's expected to be soon. as far as everything i've read, at this time, the IFA is still considered the confirmatory test for FeLV. i'd love to see anything newer. what has to remembered with FeLV is that, unlike FIV, the ELISA test is for ANTIGENS, not antibodies--so a cat can test negative merely because the exposure was too recent tos how up--so the negative isn't false, it just was too early. likewise, false positives may be false positives from all the things inherent in the test, but they can also be true at that time: the cat has been EXPOSED to the virus. antigens are NOT an immune response, however, just an indiciation that the kitty has been closely exposed to the virus. this is where the biggest misunderstandings arise: most adult cats will throw the virus off anywhere between 30-120 days--their immune systems will just knock it out. then a test will be negative because there are no longer antigens wandering around irritating them. but if you test too soon, you'll just get another positive result because the cat's body hasn't had the chance to work the virus out. doing an ELISA and an IFA right away will probably give you the same result on both of them, because it's the EXPOSURE that's showing up. the only real way to know is to consider a positive result for what it is: an indication that kitty was in close contact with someone who had the virus. (we don't know for sure, as far as i have seen, that a cat on the edge of throwing off the virus itself can't still pass it on, perhaps at a subclinical level?)--if you know when the last date the kitty could have been in contact with another cat, test if 90-120 later than that. with the IFA (or if there really is a DNA/PCR test newly available, that one) and then make the decisions. MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety instinct,etc), clean the litterbox and dishes daily and have more than one box, vaccuum and keep them flea and worm free, as well as spend time playing with the kittens and giving them affection, toys, warm places to sleep. There are no guarantees but it is possible to go from positive to negative. Just takes dedication and having hope... And others will tell you a felv positive diagnosis is not a death sentence! There are plenty of people here who have healthy cats with felv that have had long lives. I don't know about financial assistance, but you should try and talk to your vet about payment options. The cheapest ELISA test I found ran about $25-30 here in LA. Also, you can do you best to change their positive status to negative in the next few months. Even if they don't, you can adopt them out when they are a bit older after you've tried or just try to adopt them out now and tell people they are positive for now but could change.. On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:51 PM, SALLY NORDSTROM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm getting real confused about the available tests and their accuracy. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? I had to file a bankruptcy and can't afford testing. Is there someplace that can give me help? How hard is it going to be to place my rescued kittens in homes? What resources should I be using? ___ Felvtalk mailing list
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
Just for my own info... I thought IFA would show if the virus has spread to bone marrow and that a pos IFA was pretty accurate determination.. Am I wrong on that? And you can have false neg Elissa --My Tucson was one of those--she got tested as a very young kitten and obviously, exposure had been recent--5 years later she (an indoor spoiled 18 pounder), tested pos on both Elissa and IFA. Two vets confirmed that neg test was likely because of timing. Christiane Biagi Cell: 914-720-6888 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] tests please provide information about the PCR test you're talking about. the last i'd heard, there were none available that wree consistently accurate and reliable--they've been working on this for a long time and haven't been able to establish a test that's acceptibly accurate across many labs. i know that they HAVE developed one for FIV to determine if the virus is vaccine-induced or not, but as of a month or so ago, it still wasn't commercially available, tho it's expected to be soon. as far as everything i've read, at this time, the IFA is still considered the confirmatory test for FeLV. i'd love to see anything newer. what has to remembered with FeLV is that, unlike FIV, the ELISA test is for ANTIGENS, not antibodies--so a cat can test negative merely because the exposure was too recent tos how up--so the negative isn't false, it just was too early. likewise, false positives may be false positives from all the things inherent in the test, but they can also be true at that time: the cat has been EXPOSED to the virus. antigens are NOT an immune response, however, just an indiciation that the kitty has been closely exposed to the virus. this is where the biggest misunderstandings arise: most adult cats will throw the virus off anywhere between 30-120 days--their immune systems will just knock it out. then a test will be negative because there are no longer antigens wandering around irritating them. but if you test too soon, you'll just get another positive result because the cat's body hasn't had the chance to work the virus out. doing an ELISA and an IFA right away will probably give you the same result on both of them, because it's the EXPOSURE that's showing up. the only real way to know is to consider a positive result for what it is: an indication that kitty was in close contact with someone who had the virus. (we don't know for sure, as far as i have seen, that a cat on the edge of throwing off the virus itself can't still pass it on, perhaps at a subclinical level?)--if you know when the last date the kitty could have been in contact with another cat, test if 90-120 later than that. with the IFA (or if there really is a DNA/PCR test newly available, that one) and then make the decisions. MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety instinct,etc), clean the litterbox and dishes daily and have more than one box, vaccuum and keep them flea and worm free, as well as spend time playing with the kittens and giving them affection, toys, warm places to sleep. There are no guarantees but it is possible to go from positive to negative. Just takes dedication and having hope... And others will tell you a felv positive diagnosis is not a death sentence! There are plenty of people here who have healthy cats with felv that have had long lives. I don't know about financial assistance, but you should try and talk to your vet about payment options. The cheapest ELISA test I found ran about $25-30 here in LA. Also, you can do you best to change their
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
I was told about the PCR test from my vet just about 2 weeks ago. I had never even heard of it, despite researching the other 2 tests extensively. I just tried a Google search for PCR feLV test and got lots of hits so try that for more info. Some of the articles on PCR are outdated, as this test is now currently touted as a fast, effective method of detection. We thought the IFA was the most accurate, but our vet recommended the PCR bc it detects actual viral DNA not just the presence of antigens or the body's response to the virus. It's recommended after a positive ELISA test. Yes, the vet said there can be false negatives on the ELISA due to recent exposure, and that it can take up to one month to show up on the test. On Oct 29, 2008, at 11:12 AM, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: please provide information about the PCR test you're talking about. the last i'd heard, there were none available that wree consistently accurate and reliable--they've been working on this for a long time and haven't been able to establish a test that's acceptibly accurate across many labs. i know that they HAVE developed one for FIV to determine if the virus is vaccine-induced or not, but as of a month or so ago, it still wasn't commercially available, tho it's expected to be soon. as far as everything i've read, at this time, the IFA is still considered the confirmatory test for FeLV. i'd love to see anything newer. what has to remembered with FeLV is that, unlike FIV, the ELISA test is for ANTIGENS, not antibodies--so a cat can test negative merely because the exposure was too recent tos how up--so the negative isn't false, it just was too early. likewise, false positives may be false positives from all the things inherent in the test, but they can also be true at that time: the cat has been EXPOSED to the virus. antigens are NOT an immune response, however, just an indiciation that the kitty has been closely exposed to the virus. this is where the biggest misunderstandings arise: most adult cats will throw the virus off anywhere between 30-120 days--their immune systems will just knock it out. then a test will be negative because there are no longer antigens wandering around irritating them. but if you test too soon, you'll just get another positive result because the cat's body hasn't had the chance to work the virus out. doing an ELISA and an IFA right away will probably give you the same result on both of them, because it's the EXPOSURE that's showing up. the only real way to know is to consider a positive result for what it is: an indication that kitty was in close contact with someone who had the virus. (we don't know for sure, as far as i have seen, that a cat on the edge of throwing off the virus itself can't still pass it on, perhaps at a subclinical level?)--if you know when the last date the kitty could have been in contact with another cat, test if 90-120 later than that. with the IFA (or if there really is a DNA/PCR test newly available, that one) and then make the decisions. MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety instinct,etc), clean the litterbox and dishes daily and have more than one box, vaccuum and keep them flea and worm free, as well as spend time playing with the kittens and giving them affection, toys, warm places to sleep. There are no guarantees but it is possible to go from positive to negative. Just takes dedication and having hope... And others will tell you a felv positive diagnosis is not a death sentence! There are plenty of people here who have healthy cats with felv that have had long
[Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Hello, I recently took in a stray cat that had been hanging around my neighborhood for some time. He's such a nice boy and I had been feeding him for a few months before I took him in. What made me take him in was he became very sick with an upper respiratory infection and I had just felt so bad because the mucous that was coming from his nose was green, not too mention he was having a hard time breathing. I took him to my Vet who said he was a very sick kitty, he was close to pneumonia treated him with antibiotics and sent us home. I was to follow up with vaccinations and a neuter. He did finish his course of antibiotics, and days after I went on a family vacation for 10 days. My pet sitter stopped by daily to feed my animals, and walk the dogs. I received a call from the pet sitter stating she was sorry but the cat (Spazzy) had ran past her when she was taking the dogs out. I told her not to worry just try calling him and he should come back. Well that went on for days and no Spazzy. When I finally got home from vacation I was worried about him because he had been gone for about a week, I looked around the neighborhood but couldn't find him. Well about a month and a half had passed one morning while I was heading out the door to work, he was sitting at my back door. I was happy to see him, but was concerned because it seemed his upper respiratory infection was back. I brought him in the house, feed and watered him and off to work I went. I called my Vet who was booked for the weekend and couldn't see him until Monday. I was too concerned to wait so I figured it would be best to see a different Vet. Well Mr. Houdini as I like to call him (Spazzy) had gotten out. I was heartbroken and worried because he was sick . I again searched the neighborhood for him but had no luck at finding him. About a week had passed and I spotted him while I was walking my dogs. I was able to grab him, brought him back home and called the Vet. I took him in the following morning but seen a different Vet at the practice. Dr. McGinn had said he was sick but she wanted to check for Feline Leukemia because where he was treated not that long ago chances are he probably did have it. Not too mention he also had ulcers in his mouth which she stated is common for cats with feline L. Well those 10 minutes were very long just waiting, I hoped and prayed it was negative but it turned out he was positive. He was seen 10/13/08 was treated with Amoxi drops, twice a day until gone. Initially he seemed to be getting better, but a week and a half after I noticed he was sneezing but this time no mucous was visible just blood. I called the Vet's office once they opened, I had explained what was going on and was told Dr. McGinn would call me back by the end of the day. She did return my call and said she's changing his antibiotic to something stronger. She put him on Clavimox drops twice a day until gone. She also stated there are new meds for cats with feline L. but she would need to research it more before she would start using it at her practice. Have any of you heard of or maybe your cat is currently using this new medication? I guess it helps build the immune system. He started the Clavimox drop Saturday 10/26/08 and he seems to be doing better now, no drainage from his eyes, no sneezing blood, but still sounds very stuffy. Have any of you experienced these types of symptoms with your cats? He's gaining weight and thriving but from my understanding they can take a turn for the worse at any given time. Also once he's better she wants him to get his vaccines, however with a compromised immune system will the vaccine's harm him? Dr. McGinn seems to be a very caring Vet, but she doesn't seem to know too much about Feline L. I have done some research on the Internet and found that the Elisa test can sometimes produce a false positive, and it can tell what stage the feline L is at. I guess the preliminary stage (1) is where the cat has come in contact with it, but it's immune system is trying to fight off the disease. The secondary stage (2) is yes the cat does have it, it's gone past the cat's immune system fighting the disease and has moved into the cats bone marrow. Well Dr. McGinn stated the only way to find that out is by doing a bone marrow biopsy. The different websites I've viewed never stated that just that the Elisa test was able to determine what stage the cat was at. Have any of you ever heard of such a thing? At this point I don't know if I should keep trying to treat the sickness every time they appear, or if I should end all suffering for Spazzy and have him euthanized. I don't want him to suffer, and I feel by my keeping him around is being selfish because I love him. Is there anything I can do to help boost his immune system? The Vet recommended feeding him Iam's which he is now on. But is there something more I can do for him? I'm sorry this is such a long email
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Brenda, You're an angel for opening your heart and home to Spazzy. Thank you on behalf of all homeless kitties, and particularly FeLV kitts. You've come to the right place for info. My first advice would be to find an informed, FeLV-competent vet. While your vet sounds nice, nice won't help Spazzy if she's uninformed about FeLV. And it's evident from your email that you are better informed than your vet---definitely do not allow her to vaccinate Spazzy. Also, keep Spazzy indoors. It stops him from spreading the FeLV and prevents him from coming into contact with cats that may pass on other illnesses to him. As you already learned, the most important goal is to do everything possible to help his immune system. In my opinion, if a cat is enjoying life--alert, playing, eating, enjoying cuddles etc--there is every reason to help him continue to do so. To that end, buy the highest quality cat food you can afford--ideally, one without by-products, additives or preservatives. (Last time I looked, Iams didn't measure up). Add 500mg L-Lysine--grind it to a powder--to his food morning and night. Add a teaspoon of Anitra Frazier's vita-mineral-mix recipe twice a day. (See recipe below.) Wholefoods or a health store should have all the ingredients, and you can make enough at one time to keep you going for weeks. And provide as stress-free an environment as you can---lots of attention, cuddles and care goes a long way to boosting the immune system. Some cats will throw off the virus--one of my 5 FeLV cats is now negative. (The others succumbed around the age of 2.) The test your vet likely means is an IFA test, to find out if the FeLV is in the bone marrow. Once in the bone marrow, the FeLV is confirmed, and won't be thrown off. Ask her what medication she is referring to--feline interferon? Immunoregulin? Here's the Vita-Mineral Mix recipe. Into the wet food, morning and night, I mix: 1 tsp Vita-Mineral Mix which is made up of: 1 1/2 cups yeast powder (brewer's yeast, nutritional yeast or tarula). (I use nutritional yeast.) 1/4 cup kelp powder or 1/4 cup mixed trace mineral powder (I found kelp first, so I use that) 1 cup lecithin granules 2 cups wheat bran 2 cups bonemeal. Here's another excerpt from the same book---The New Natural Cat--A Complete Guide for Finicky Owners, by Anitra Frazier-- it's in the Feline Leukemia section on pages 326/327): When a positive cat---one carrying the virus--comes into contact with a negative cat--one not carrying the virus--the negative, but exposed cat may: *not become affected in any way; *become infected (positive), develop immunity, and revert again to being negative; *become positive, but not become ill and remain positive--thus becoming a new carrier of the virus; *become positive and develop lymphosarcoma, leukemia, or other cancer; or *become positive and be ill from the virus infection, much like flu; and then recover and remain positive or become negative. A positive cat who has not developed cancer can be tested again in three months. If he has been treated by an experienced veterinary homeopath and put on a high-quality diet designed to build general health and strengthen the immune system, chances are good that he will have reverted to negative. (my emphasis) You will get lots more great advice here. Bless you for loving and looking out for Snazzy. Kerry M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda Waterson Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Hello, I recently took in a stray cat that had been hanging around my neighborhood for some time. He's such a nice boy and I had been feeding him for a few months before I took him in. What made me take him in was he became very sick with an upper respiratory infection and I had just felt so bad because the mucous that was coming from his nose was green, not too mention he was having a hard time breathing. I took him to my Vet who said he was a very sick kitty, he was close to pneumonia treated him with antibiotics and sent us home. I was to follow up with vaccinations and a neuter. He did finish his course of antibiotics, and days after I went on a family vacation for 10 days. My pet sitter stopped by daily to feed my animals, and walk the dogs. I received a call from the pet sitter stating she was sorry but the cat (Spazzy) had ran past her when she was taking the dogs out. I told her not to worry just try calling him and he should come back. Well that went on for days and no Spazzy. When I finally got home from vacation I was worried about him because he had been gone for about a week, I looked around the neighborhood but couldn't find him. Well about a month and a half had passed one morning while I was heading out the door to work, he was sitting at my back door. I was happy to see him, but was
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Welcome, Brenda! Sorry Spazzy is so ill, but you've come to the right place for info. You will be getting a lot of it in a very short time, but just to start out, your vet is way wrong about the bone marrow biopsy. Yikes! What you need to get is an IFA test. It's much more accurate than the test that would have been done in that long ten minutes -- it's a blood test that's sent to a lab and IT is the way to find out if the disease is in the marrow. You probably need, and I know this can be daunting, to find a vet who is more knowledgeable about FeLV. If yours is willing to learn, that's good but with an already sick kitty you probably need someone who's up to speed now. Here's the mini-drill: lots of love, keep stress levels low, give good food (Iams is pretty good, but there are better ones you can get at the pet shop) with meat as the FIRST ingredient in the list and low on grains. You can give the supplement L-Lysine (from the health food store, not the human stuff from the drugstore, which has bad additives). Your vet may be talking about immunoregulin, which has been a big help to some kitties on this list. Probably you need to reassess Spazzy's condition once the runnies are under control. If he bounces back from that after the Clav, you'll have a better idea of his overall health. It may be that it's just a passing cold not directly related to the FeLV, in which case he may be around for quite a while. Or it could be that he's gotten to the really-sick stage and there may not be much you can do. (That's how it was with my Patches, a stray we brought in who crashed within 6 weeks). In that case, by bringing him in you are giving him the great kindness of a safe and loving place to be for however long rather than out on his own. Bless you for caring for him. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda Waterson Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Hello, I recently took in a stray cat that had been hanging around my neighborhood for some time. He's such a nice boy and I had been feeding him for a few months before I took him in. What made me take him in was he became very sick with an upper respiratory infection and I had just felt so bad because the mucous that was coming from his nose was green, not too mention he was having a hard time breathing. I took him to my Vet who said he was a very sick kitty, he was close to pneumonia treated him with antibiotics and sent us home. I was to follow up with vaccinations and a neuter. He did finish his course of antibiotics, and days after I went on a family vacation for 10 days. My pet sitter stopped by daily to feed my animals, and walk the dogs. I received a call from the pet sitter stating she was sorry but the cat (Spazzy) had ran past her when she was taking the dogs out. I told her not to worry just try calling him and he should come back. Well that went on for days and no Spazzy. When I finally got home from vacation I was worried about him because he had been gone for about a week, I looked around the neighborhood but couldn't find him. Well about a month and a half had passed one morning while I was heading out the door to work, he was sitting at my back door. I was happy to see him, but was concerned because it seemed his upper respiratory infection was back. I brought him in the house, feed and watered him and off to work I went. I called my Vet who was booked for the weekend and couldn't see him until Monday. I was too concerned to wait so I figured it would be best to see a different Vet. Well Mr. Houdini as I like to call him (Spazzy) had gotten out. I was heartbroken and worried because he was sick . I again searched the neighborhood for him but had no luck at finding him. About a week had passed and I spotted him while I was walking my dogs. I was able to grab him, brought him back home and called the Vet. I took him in the following morning but seen a different Vet at the practice. Dr. McGinn had said he was sick but she wanted to check for Feline Leukemia because where he was treated not that long ago chances are he probably did have it. Not too mention he also had ulcers in his mouth which she stated is common for cats with feline L. Well those 10 minutes were very long just waiting, I hoped and prayed it was negative but it turned out he was positive. He was seen 10/13/08 was treated with Amoxi drops, twice a day until gone. Initially he seemed to be getting better, but a week and a half after I noticed he was sneezing but this time no mucous was visible just blood. I called the Vet's office once they opened, I had explained what was going on and was told Dr. McGinn would call me back by the end of the day. She did return my call and said she's changing his antibiotic to something stronger. She put him
[Felvtalk] IFA testing whether or not the virus is in the bone marrow
this is what is stated by a lot of people, but i really need to see some actual reference to it. i have NOT found this stated in the literature, or not stated in the definitive way that i see it used. IFA-tested cats CAN and DO test negative just as ELISA-tested cats do. if you wait the required amount of time after an ELISA and then do an IFA, and the latter is still positive, the odds are great that the kitty truly is positive because enough time has passed for the virus to have worked itself out of the cat's system if it was going to. However, if you read the literature, you will see that even the dumbed-down versions say that, MOST cats who test positive on the IFA will remain positive. An earlier Merck Manual said that there was documentation of a cat who reverted to negative on an IFA six or 8 months after the initial ELISA test--i didn't copy down the info, because it was in the merck, after all, and it never occurred to me that they might remove it! I've tried to track down the bone marrow thing, and haven't been able to--i've seen references to how FeLV can AFFECT the vone marrow and cause infections, but not that the IFA itself is LOOKING for that. i know that i would appreciate clarification, so that i and all of us can be using the correct terminology when we're off fighting the dragons of ignorance! and if you have a positive IFA taken at the same time as the ELISA, RETEST!!! all the major vet associations say you MUST RETEST after waiting for the cat's system to kick in. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? --- On Wed, 10/29/08, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 3:16 PM Brenda, You're an angel for opening your heart and home to Spazzy. Thank you on behalf of all homeless kitties, and particularly FeLV kitts. You've come to the right place for info. My first advice would be to find an informed, FeLV-competent vet. While your vet sounds nice, nice won't help Spazzy if she's uninformed about FeLV. And it's evident from your email that you are better informed than your vet---definitely do not allow her to vaccinate Spazzy. Also, keep Spazzy indoors. It stops him from spreading the FeLV and prevents him from coming into contact with cats that may pass on other illnesses to him. As you already learned, the most important goal is to do everything possible to help his immune system. In my opinion, if a cat is enjoying life--alert, playing, eating, enjoying cuddles etc--there is every reason to help him continue to do so. To that end, buy the highest quality cat food you can afford--ideally, one without by-products, additives or preservatives. (Last time I looked, Iams didn't measure up). Add 500mg L-Lysine--grind it to a powder--to his food morning and night. Add a teaspoon of Anitra Frazier's vita-mineral-mix recipe twice a day. (See recipe below.) Wholefoods or a health store should have all the ingredients, and you can make enough at one time to keep you going for weeks. And provide as stress-free an environment as you can---lots of attention, cuddles and care goes a long way to boosting the immune system. Some cats will throw off the virus--one of my 5 FeLV cats is now negative. (The others succumbed around the age of 2.) The test your vet likely means is an IFA test, to find out if the FeLV is in the bone marrow. Once in the bone marrow, the FeLV is confirmed, and won't be thrown off. Ask her what medication she is referring to--feline interferon? Immunoregulin? Here's the Vita-Mineral Mix recipe. Into the wet food, morning and night, I mix: 1 tsp Vita-Mineral Mix which is made up of: 1 1/2 cups yeast powder (brewer's yeast, nutritional yeast or tarula). (I use nutritional yeast.) 1/4 cup kelp powder or 1/4 cup mixed trace mineral powder (I found kelp first, so I use that) 1 cup lecithin granules 2 cups wheat bran 2 cups bonemeal. Here's another excerpt from the same book---The New Natural Cat--A Complete Guide for Finicky Owners, by Anitra Frazier-- it's in the Feline Leukemia section on pages 326/327): When a positive cat---one carrying the virus--comes into contact with a negative cat--one not carrying the virus--the negative, but exposed cat may: *not become affected in any way; *become infected (positive), develop immunity, and revert again to being negative; *become positive, but not become ill and remain positive--thus becoming a new carrier of the virus; *become positive and develop lymphosarcoma, leukemia, or other cancer; or *become positive and be ill from the virus infection, much like flu; and then recover and remain positive or become negative. A positive cat who has not developed cancer can be tested again in three months. If he has been treated by an experienced veterinary homeopath and put on a high-quality diet designed to build general health and strengthen the immune system, chances are good that he will have reverted to negative. (my emphasis) You will get lots more great advice here. Bless you for loving and looking out for Snazzy. Kerry M. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brenda Waterson Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Hello, I recently took in a stray cat that had been hanging around my neighborhood for some time. He's such a nice boy and I had been feeding him for a few months before I took him in. What made me take him in was he became very sick with an upper respiratory infection and I had just felt so bad because the mucous that was coming from his nose was green, not too mention he was having a hard time breathing. I took him to my Vet who said he was a very sick kitty, he was close to pneumonia treated him with antibiotics and sent us home. I was to follow up with vaccinations and a neuter. He did finish his course of antibiotics, and days after I went on a family vacation for 10 days. My pet sitter stopped by daily to feed my animals, and walk the dogs. I received a call from the pet sitter stating she was sorry but
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Our vet told us to hold off on both shots and spay surgery until the final diagnosis. It stresses their systems and makes them weak, thereby making it harder for them to fight off the disease... Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2008, at 2:29 PM, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
i respectfully disagree. asymptomatic FeLVs are not sick cats. every sanctuary or multi-cat household will gell you that until the virus is activated, FeLVs are just normal cats--they get sick, they get treated, they get well. in sanctuary settings, FeLVs are kept with other FeLVs, in all stages of sickness and health. since FeLV kills through opporunistic infections as well as lymphomas and other manifestations, if the healthy FeLVs in the populations were seriously immune-compromised, each time one of them went into their final battle, all the others would get sick as well and be unable to fight off the onslaughts of new infections. this does not happen. if you have two FeLVs in the house and one becomes ill, why doesn't the other, sick cat, immediately succumb? this is another misunderstanding, i truly believe, from vets who haven't bothered to keep up on the research, and/or to adequately educate their patients. let me tell you, however, if you've ever seen a cat die of panleukopenia, you won't ever want it to happen again. there are ALWAYS risks in using ANY drug, and while there have certainly been reactions to vaccines throughout time, the way to counter our over-vaccinated society isn't necessarily to stop doing them at all. a symptomatic cat is sick; it may not have a thing to do with the FeLV, but an asymptomatic cat being sick because it may have FeLV, is like saying that all of us who had chicken pox are sick, because we've got that herpes virus just waiting to break out into herpes. MC (haven't you missed me?) On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
this is closer to what i would have said--wait to see if the cat is actually positive, and then weight the very real risks of NOT vaccinating against the potential ones of doing so. i follow dr dodd's recommendations myself, i just define sick differently, i guess. (tho i'm REALLY not happy about the new protocol for kittens--every 3-4 weeks of vaccines until they're FOUR MONTHS OLD?? to me, that's WAY too much..) MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:48 PM, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our vet told us to hold off on both shots and spay surgery until the final diagnosis. It stresses their systems and makes them weak, thereby making it harder for them to fight off the disease... Sent from my iPhone On Oct 29, 2008, at 2:29 PM, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations for FelV kittens
Mary Christine, I had two FelV kittens. One was vaccinated by the vet after having testing positive with the Elisa test. He had one day of feeling bad, like all kittens do, but has been fine ever since. The other kitten, also positive, got extremely sick, couldn't even hold his head up, and soon died. I'm assuming his immune system was gone, whereas the other kitten had an immune system that was still pretty much alright. Re: your other e-mail.. I agree, vets want to give kittens way, way too many vaccinations. They also get the same amount of vaccine a full grown cat gets, which doesn't seem right to me. Lorrie On 10-29, MaryChristine wrote: i respectfully disagree. asymptomatic FeLVs are not sick cats. every sanctuary or multi-cat household will tell you that until the virus is activated, FeLVs are just normal cats--they get sick, they get treated, they get well. in sanctuary settings, FeLVs are kept with other FeLVs, in all stages of sickness and health. since FeLV kills through opporunistic infections as well as lymphomas and other manifestations, if the healthy FeLVs in the populations were seriously immune-compromised, each time one of them went into their final battle, all the others would get sick as well and be unable to fight off the onslaughts of new infections. this does not happen. if you have two FeLVs in the house and one becomes ill, why doesn't the other, sick cat, immediately succumb? this is another misunderstanding, i truly believe, from vets who haven't bothered to keep up on the research, and/or to adequately educate their patients. let me tell you, however, if you've ever seen a cat die of panleukopenia, you won't ever want it to happen again. there are ALWAYS risks in using ANY drug, and while there have certainly been reactions to vaccines throughout time, the way to counter our over-vaccinated society isn't necessarily to stop doing them at all. a symptomatic cat is sick; it may not have a thing to do with the FeLV, but an asymptomatic cat being sick because it may have FeLV, is like saying that all of us who had chicken pox are sick, because we've got that herpes virus just waiting to break out into herpes. MC (haven't you missed me?) On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Vaccinations for FelV kittens
it's not a hard-and-dried thing, as you said--i know of positives who seemed in perfectly great health not make it through spaying/neutering, too; at the sanctuary, we'd neuter the little boys as soon as possible to solve any breaking-out-into-kittens problems, but some of the girls were NEVER spayed, based on their health. but just as with vaccinations, perfectly healthy cats can die from routine spays and neuters, and you have to weigh the alternatives. i just don't think that we can blame everything that happens to an FIV, or an FeLV, on their having the virus wandering around their systems. Until they come to us with the genetic profiles and complete vet records, it's all a gamble personally, i vaccinate my FeLVs as babies, then again if they make it to three years, just as the recommendations are for other healthy cats. i spay/neuter them when they seem strong enough; and i keep my paws crossed and love them every single day, knowing that there are no guarantees that there will be tomorrow--for them, or even for me. MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Lorrie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mary Christine, I had two FelV kittens. One was vaccinated by the vet after having testing positive with the Elisa test. He had one day of feeling bad, like all kittens do, but has been fine ever since. The other kitten, also positive, got extremely sick, couldn't even hold his head up, and soon died. I'm assuming his immune system was gone, whereas the other kitten had an immune system that was still pretty much alright. Re: your other e-mail.. I agree, vets want to give kittens way, way too many vaccinations. They also get the same amount of vaccine a full grown cat gets, which doesn't seem right to me. Lorrie On 10-29, MaryChristine wrote: i respectfully disagree. asymptomatic FeLVs are not sick cats. every sanctuary or multi-cat household will tell you that until the virus is activated, FeLVs are just normal cats--they get sick, they get treated, they get well. in sanctuary settings, FeLVs are kept with other FeLVs, in all stages of sickness and health. since FeLV kills through opporunistic infections as well as lymphomas and other manifestations, if the healthy FeLVs in the populations were seriously immune-compromised, each time one of them went into their final battle, all the others would get sick as well and be unable to fight off the onslaughts of new infections. this does not happen. if you have two FeLVs in the house and one becomes ill, why doesn't the other, sick cat, immediately succumb? this is another misunderstanding, i truly believe, from vets who haven't bothered to keep up on the research, and/or to adequately educate their patients. let me tell you, however, if you've ever seen a cat die of panleukopenia, you won't ever want it to happen again. there are ALWAYS risks in using ANY drug, and while there have certainly been reactions to vaccines throughout time, the way to counter our over-vaccinated society isn't necessarily to stop doing them at all. a symptomatic cat is sick; it may not have a thing to do with the FeLV, but an asymptomatic cat being sick because it may have FeLV, is like saying that all of us who had chicken pox are sick, because we've got that herpes virus just waiting to break out into herpes. MC (haven't you missed me?) On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 5:29 PM, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Yes Sally(the other one) . MC (haven't you missed me?) -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
awww, thanks! MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes Sally(the other one) . MC (haven't you missed me?) -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Buzzy still has hemolytic anemia
Hi Sue, I am sorry to hear that Buzz has to go back on the Prednisolone. I wish I could help you out with the new drug, but this is the first time I've ever heard about it. Please keep us posted on his progress. I hope his rbc goes up soon! :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ From: Sue Frank Koren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 6:22:43 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Buzzy still has hemolytic anemia My Buzz had anemia back in July and because of the advise of this group and my vet who is very proactive his life was saved. We have been slowly weaning him off of the Prednisolone for the past several months. He was down to 1/2 of a 5mg tablet one time a day. Unfortunately his red blood cell count began to drop again. He is back to his full dose of Prednisolone - 30mg / day. We will wait until the red blood cell count stabilizes and then begin the weaning process again. This time he will also be on Chlorambucil. Does anyone have any experience with this drug or have any other suggestions that may help Buzz? I have an excellent vet who is very open to suggestions and will research any possibilities thoroughly. Buzzy is the love of my life. He snuggles up with me every single night. I know the people in this group understand more then anyone else what this is like. Thank you, Sue and Buzzy ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
Ok, guys, now I need more help! I picked the kittens up tonight and after I got home, I saw that only one tested positive. Can the other kittens be with her? Even though they tested negative, is the Humane Society worried that the others will eventually test positive? I don't understand any of this! --- On Wed, 10/29/08, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:29 PM Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive
My two cents... even though they were all exposed equally. I would keep them apart. Repeated exposure is needed for infection to occur. So even though they are not positive now it could still happen. If you get to the point where the negative kitens are still negative after a few months and have had their vaccines you may be able to mix them then. For now I would separate. IMHO Sally(in VA) On 10/29/08, SALLY NORDSTROM [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, guys, now I need more help! I picked the kittens up tonight and after I got home, I saw that only one tested positive. Can the other kittens be with her? Even though they tested negative, is the Humane Society worried that the others will eventually test positive? I don't understand any of this! --- On Wed, 10/29/08, MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: MacKenzie, Kerry N. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:29 PM Sally, I personally would not vaccinate a positive cat. See Jean Dodds' and Charles Loop's (both vets) views here. (The paragraph below is taken from the website.) Kerry M. http://www.newsagepress.com/protectyourpet.html All packages of vaccinations carry warnings that they should be injected only in healthy animals. In the case of cats, vaccine manufacturers advise against vaccinating pregnant or nursing cats. However, many pets are not healthy when vaccinated although they might not have outward signs of health problems. Charles Loops, DVM, a holistic veterinarian from Pittsboro, North Carolina, notes that chemically killed viruses or bacteria are injected directly into the blood stream, which is an unnatural route of infection. (7) This causes the animal's antibodies to attempt to fight off the offending virus molecules and render them harmless. If the animal's immune system is too weakened, he or she cannot fight off these viruses and can develop a reaction to the vaccine. Even small amounts of a virus that is introduced through a vaccination may be too much for sick animals to fight off. They then may fall ill from the very disease to which they have been vaccinated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SALLY NORDSTROM Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Stray Kitty I took in tests positive Another question. My kittens tested positive with the ELISA test. May they have their vaccines? Mom gets tested Friday. If positive, may she have her vaccines? May she be spayed? _ IRS CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE. Any tax advice expressed above by Mayer Brown LLP was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, by any taxpayer to avoid U.S. federal tax penalties. If such advice was written or used to support the promotion or marketing of the matter addressed above, then each offeree should seek advice from an independent tax advisor. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soulmate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] tests
RE; COST AND FINANCIAL HELP in Missouri, at least in Lincoln County, we have a thing called care credit. my vet holds charges until we reach $400.00 then puts it on my account with care credit. i can take up to 1 year to pay with no interest charged unless i go past the year limit. you can also use for glasses, dentist, etc. on the monthly statement, they list each charge, and its expiration date. this way, you can pay off a little each month instead of a lot at once. you can contact them at www.carecredit.com or 1-866893-7864 to find out if it is available in your area. dorlis Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just for my own info... I thought IFA would show if the virus has spread to bone marrow and that a pos IFA was pretty accurate determination.. Am I wrong on that? And you can have false neg Elissa --My Tucson was one of those--she got tested as a very young kitten and obviously, exposure had been recent--5 years later she (an indoor spoiled 18 pounder), tested pos on both Elissa and IFA. Two vets confirmed that neg test was likely because of timing. Christiane Biagi Cell: 914-720-6888 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MaryChristine Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 2:13 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] tests please provide information about the PCR test you're talking about. the last i'd heard, there were none available that wree consistently accurate and reliable--they've been working on this for a long time and haven't been able to establish a test that's acceptibly accurate across many labs. i know that they HAVE developed one for FIV to determine if the virus is vaccine-induced or not, but as of a month or so ago, it still wasn't commercially available, tho it's expected to be soon. as far as everything i've read, at this time, the IFA is still considered the confirmatory test for FeLV. i'd love to see anything newer. what has to remembered with FeLV is that, unlike FIV, the ELISA test is for ANTIGENS, not antibodies--so a cat can test negative merely because the exposure was too recent tos how up--so the negative isn't false, it just was too early. likewise, false positives may be false positives from all the things inherent in the test, but they can also be true at that time: the cat has been EXPOSED to the virus. antigens are NOT an immune response, however, just an indiciation that the kitty has been closely exposed to the virus. this is where the biggest misunderstandings arise: most adult cats will throw the virus off anywhere between 30-120 days--their immune systems will just knock it out. then a test will be negative because there are no longer antigens wandering around irritating them. but if you test too soon, you'll just get another positive result because the cat's body hasn't had the chance to work the virus out. doing an ELISA and an IFA right away will probably give you the same result on both of them, because it's the EXPOSURE that's showing up. the only real way to know is to consider a positive result for what it is: an indication that kitty was in close contact with someone who had the virus. (we don't know for sure, as far as i have seen, that a cat on the edge of throwing off the virus itself can't still pass it on, perhaps at a subclinical level?)--if you know when the last date the kitty could have been in contact with another cat, test if 90-120 later than that. with the IFA (or if there really is a DNA/PCR test newly available, that one) and then make the decisions. MC On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Saehwa Kang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The ELISA test takes a blood sample from the lower leg, and is inexpensive. It's not that accurate, as there are false positives and sometimes false negatives. We had 2 three month old kittens who became negative within 1 month, and one that became negative 3 months later. You can retest after about 2-3 months with the Elisa again. Better yet is the IFA test. It checks whether the felv has reached the bone marrow- the vet sends a blood sample to a lab and is a tad more expensive but much more accurate. However,the best alternative after a positice elisa test is the new PCR test. It's so new you won't see it in many google searches. It can detect even minute quanitites of the virus and is the most accurate test out there- also sent to the lab. Best after two consecutive positive ELISA tests. Your kitties can fight off the virus and change to negative though it's not guaranteed. They probably got it from their mother. Many kittens can and do fight it off which is why early testinf is often inaccurate. In order to do so, you'll need to provide a low stress environment, indoor only home to reduce exposure to germs, premium food mostly canned (wellness, innova evo, natures variety
