Re: Greetings again
Jane Lyons wrote: Hi Nina I'm writing from the site, but I am not sure it will go to the list. If this reaches the list, Sam I've had good results with L-lysine (500mg's daily which I split between 2 feedings) and a liquid supplement called DMG. I have also found that good quality food helps. As everyone on this list will tell you, a lot of love and affection and a low stress existence is key. It is great that Gus is without symptoms. Hopefully you can boost his immunity and he will be able to throw the virus. Here's hoping. To the list: Since the server problems I have not been able to send or receive messages. James cannot figure it out. If anyone knows how to get back on, please let me know. Thanks Jane [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: Greetings again
Hi Sam, First of all, bless you and your wife for opening your hearts and home to those in need. I'm so sorry for your loss. Yes, we all get how quickly our hearts can be stolen by the wayward ones that find us just a little too late. I'm so glad you were there for your rescue friend to show him that humans are capable of love and compassion. Now Grumpy Gus has entered your life and given you another opportunity to fight this dreadful disease... I haven't been active on the felv list in a while, but recently there was some trouble with the list serve and it caused my subscription to change from digest to inbox and I peeked in to see how things were going for the good people here. It was in that vein that I opened your post and noticed that no one had responded yet. I went to check on the mail-archive page and not only are there no replies, but your original message isn't there either. It may have something to do with the recent trouble. Anyway, I didn't want you to think that no one cares about what you are going through. I'm sure others will step in to help inform you, (or correct me if my memory is faulty or current thinking has changed). There are many supplements that the folks on this list have found helpful for boosting the immune system of kitties fighting/living with the disease. As you've indicated you are aware that Gus could throw the virus, (retesting is usually done 90-120 days after initial diagnosis). Keeping the environment as stress free as possible, as good a quality diet as you can afford, supplements and lots of encouragement and love have helped my felv and fiv guys live longer and healthier lives. I'm trying to remember all the supps I've used... There's Transfer Factor, CoQ10, L-Lysine, Vitamin supps, (esp C)... I've often wondered if feline interferon might be more effective on cats that have recently contracted the disease and are in the process of fighting it off. Hopefully others will jump in to help you sort it all out. Are you familiar with ELISA, (in-house snap test), vs IFA, (more conclusive test sent out of office)? There is a wealth of information in the lists archives and right about the time I left the list someone started another felv support group that might help you as well. The very best to you, Gus and your whole family. You will be in my thoughts and prayers, Nina * * http://www.4life.com/ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:13:15 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Greetings Again To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Greetings Again, I have not been very active here since the passing of my LeLV cat Elric Whiteybone. Since then I have been active in cat rescue. Recently I have lost another cat to this disease, he came to our back porch, and rubbed between my wifes legs. He was more than friendly, but he had a full mucus mustache on his face. He tested positive for LeLV but not FIV, the respiratory infection which was giving him his mucus mustache did not respond to any of the 5+ antibiotics we used on him. We named him Gio short for Giovanni. With in two weeks the disease did it work on his body along with the respiratory infection. On a Saturday we took him to our Rescue Groups Veterinarian. We got there way early and were able to spend over an hour with him there. When the Veterinarian got there, she asked if this was our kitty or a rescue kitty. We responded he was a rescue kitty and that we were staying with him while his time came. So while the Veterinarian gave him the meds to ease his passing, my wife and I were holding and touching him. We both felt him relax then go totally limp. After a bit the Vet listened for his heart, and said he was gone. We spent another 15 minutes with him. Later the Vet came in and asked what we wanted to do with Gio's body. We replied that we already had place dug for him in our back yard by our porch and the catnip bush that grew nearby. She seemed taken a back that we were doing this for a rescue kitty. I believe she got her eyes opened about those that rescue cats/kitties. We took him home and placed him in the spot we prepared for him. We have been putting food out of the strays in our neighborhood, getting them snipped and returned. We recently heard a sound while we were eating breakfast coming from our back patio. It sounded like two male cats squaring off to fight. When we looked it was a single domestic short haired Gray male cat. We named him Gus as in Grumpy Gus. He was at first a bit shy, but later became much easier to handle. We spoke to our rescue group about him, offered to foster him, they said they would pay for his testing and snipping if we fostered him. Well the news from the testing was not good, it was the SNAP test and by that test he was positive for LeLV. We have him in a separate bedroom
Sally Foster needs some help in the San Fran area
Hello All, I just got off the phone with Sally Foster. Old timers may remember her from the list. We became friends years ago when I first joined the list and Sally was kind enough to offer me her phone number so I could cry on her shoulder. Sally has been doing TNR and rescuing cats for years. She's always been so helpful and compassionate and I guess a little too open. She got into a discrepancy with one of her new foster parents about the best way to care for kittens she placed with them and suspects that they were the ones that turned her into animal control. Yes, here we go with another nightmare. I think she said she had one officer visit the first time, (they didn't enter the house, just talked with her about the conditions), then they returned this week with a second officer and came inside. They were making noises like the conditions were too crowded, but they didn't indicate what might be coming next. I know that Sally has dealt with ac before and that she has some sort of blessing from them to do rescue, I don't remember if it's an actual permit or just verbal. Sally was wondering if I had contact info for rescues or individuals in the bay area that might be able to help her foster cats. Sally's computer is down so any communication will have to be by phone or through my email. Sally's phone number is 408-365-0330 if you think you might be able to lend her some support or suggestions. I'm sure that even some kind words would be appreciated at this point. She's so disheartened thinking that people she trusted may have put her cats in jeopardy. Sally is especially concerned about 3 of her charges, that while asymptomatic, have tested positive... One is a friendly, outgoing orange tuxy/tabby boy that has tested pos for fiv. A marking on his face looks like a Mercedes Benz emblem so she's been calling him Benz. The other two are littermates that tested pos for felv about 2 weeks ago. They are 7 mos old. The little boy had swollen glands and the little girl had runny eyes, but since she's started them on feline interferon injections they are symptom free and playful. She's a long haired tortie and he's an orange tuxy/tabby. Thank you for allowing me to reach out to you guys when I've been away from the list for so long. Please cross post to anyone that you think might be able to help. I do miss you all and wish you so many blessings. Some day I hope to have the strength and energy to participate the way I used to. Nina
Re: Sally Foster needs some help in the San Fran area
Thank you Susan and Kelley for your replies and concern. I'm sure Sally will appreciate any help or advice you can give her. I have an unreasonable fear of animal control, I think of them like I would the gestapo. Sally doesn't seem to be panicking the way I might, but she is quickly taking steps to address any concerns they may have and to locate additional fosters for the cats in her possession. Say a prayer everybody, Nina SHE HAS TO MOVE THE CATS. I don't care if she has to board them, or whatever, but if AC has been there, they ARE COMING BACK. For that matter if I absolutely had to I would let them outside to keep AC from getting their evil hands on them, but that would be a last resort... Please, for the safety of the cats, she has to move them. Of course I am not in that areabut if she needs a shoulder to cry on I can call her tonight. When will AC leave rescuers alone Kelley Subject: Re: Sally Foster needs some help in the San Fran area From: Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:24:10 -0700 (PDT) To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org California and Texas are really different. We have very specific laws on the books governing seizures, very rescue friendly state laws. Sally is in the San Jose area, about an hour south of me. I'll call her and get some details. I know California rescue law pretty well. Let me find out what's going on here. She is likely to have a grace period to improve conditions and network with other rescues to make arrangements for the animals. But let me find out what's really going on.
James are you out there?
James, I know you have had medical issues and are not able to frequent the felvtalk list as much as you'd like. I have gone digest and am not checking the list regularly either, but someone forwarded the post below to the felv-off topic group from felvtalk and I thought you should be aware of the downward spiral our beloved list has taken. As we've discussed in the past, ot discussions never upset me as long as they were not mean spirited or inappropriate topics for any 'pg' sort of gathering. Some of the happy stories shared in the past were very refreshing when intermingled with the inherent sadness that comes with having loved ones suffer from felv. It greatly saddens me to report to you that many of the long time members of this group have dropped off and it is no longer the comforting source of information and support it once was. It would be bad enough if mean-spirited ot discussion was the worst of what was happening, but that is not the only thing plaguing the list. With the absence of some of the lists more experienced caregivers, some of the information now being presented in a matter-of-fact sort of way is not only incorrect, but down right dangerous for the health of those we so wish to help. If something isn't done to get things under control soon, I fear the list that has meant so much to so many will never be the same again. It is sad on so many levels, but especially so for all the loving guardians of felv pos cats that will no longer have it as the valuable resource it once was for me and so many others. Hopeful that something can be done, Nina Subject: Re: Susan and hunting From: Malone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:02:56 -0600 To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org You truly make me ill. I pray that someday you feel good enough about yourself not to have to belittle and berate others. This used to be a place to come and get help from those that were all going through a difficult time with their beloved felines, and you have turned this forum into a place to belittle and berate others. Not only off topic but you are being prejudice and hateful. I will find an organization that is truly able to help me with my most beloved felines. This surely isn't the forum for those that want to learn to help preserve the life of their feline friends that are infected with this hideous virus.
Becky and Pilling Moe
Becky, Do I have this right? Moe has a rash of bumps around his neck and the vet thinks it's some sort of allergy? Is that why she suggested Benedryl? If that's the case, clavomox wouldn't help him anyway. My fiv boy, Starman has very sensitive skin and an allergy to flea bites. Something that has helped him is the antihistamine Chlorpheniramine. It's over the counter too and if the Benedryl doesn't help Moe, the Chlor might, (Star is 20lb and his recommended dose was 2-4mg, 1-2x daily). As for pilling... The best way I have found to pill a cat is to wrap it in just enough Pill Pocket to cover the pill and then hide it in a tiny bit of something yummy they love to eat, like tuna or chicken pieces. Pill Pockets come in several different flavors so get the one that matches the treat best. You can get Pill Pockets at most pet food stores now. As long as Moe is eating well this might work and it turns pill time into something to look forward to. If they won't eat it in this way a pill-popper can really help you with placing the pill far enough back on the tongue and also helps you avoid getting your fingers munched. It also speeds the process and avoids having to retrieve the pill from wherever they spit it out, (practice with it before hand to see just how far the pill popper projects the pill). With really reluctant pillers, the easiest way for me, is to kneel on the floor and get the cat between your legs with his head near your knees and your body sort of hovering over him. Close your heals up tight so he can't squirm backwards and escape. When you have him gently trapped this way, take your left hand and cup it over his face, (as if you are petting his whole head from nose to ears). When you have your index finger and thumb on both sides of the back of his jaw, gently pry open his mouth and tilt his head slightly backwards. With your right hand put the pill in his open mouth all the way at the back of his tongue and gently force the pill into the hole of his throat. As soon as you pull your right hand away, he'll close his mouth, keep it closed while stroking his neck until you are sure the pill has gone down. I always wrap the pill in a tiny bit of Pill Pocket just in case it is foul tasting, or in case they chomp down on it. Wrapping something like Doxycycline in pill pockets help too because it protects against abrasion to the lining of their throat. Make sure you offer him something tasty directly afterward to insure the pill goes all the way down his throat and doesn't get stuck. If he's too upset to eat after pilling, then have a syringe ready with a couple cc's of water to wash it down before you release him. What I have found helps most of all when medicating my animals is to change my attitude toward it. They are already nervous enough without me adding to it by being apprehensive or apologetic. Put on your nurse's hat and do everything very matter of factly. Let him know you understand that this is unpleasant, but that it is necessary for him to feel better. I always praise them exorbitantly afterward and tell them thank you for being so good, (even if they weren't). You can also wrap him up like a little mummy in a towel to cut down on the squirming. Once they figure out that they have to put up with this, (they have no choice), and if you can make it a quick process, they start to accept being pilled with a little more grace. Good luck sweetie, don't forget to put peroxide on those scratches! Nina
Mirror of Death - John Stevens
The following is an excerpt from an article that was posted on another list I'm on. The felv list is always shadowed by the sorrow and the potential sorrow of losing a loved one. We've touched on the points that John makes time and time again, but I thought it might help those suffering with loss to consider them yet again. Nina The Mirror of Death Although it is inevitable, losing a loved one is never easy. Suddenly a part of your life is gone and there is a gaping hole that was once filled with love. I, like everyone else, have had to cope with this emptiness, but it took the death of my dear friend, Sarah, a border collie who was my faithful companion for almost 16 years, to come upon a discovery that changed my life... Sarah was an abused puppy we rescued when we lived in England. When we went looking for a dog, I was keen on another one that was in the foster home we visited, but she chose me. Her abuser had been a man and she feared all men, but for some reason she saw something in me, very much a man, that was different and boldly approached me wagging her tail. In spite of my protests, it was a battle I could not win. She was the dog for me and that was it... After years of devotion on both of our parts, the time came when cancer took over and we had to put her down. In the cool shade of our front lawn, we stared into each other's eyes, trying to prolong the moment. Then it was over. She was gone. Days of grief immediately followed. Friends tried to say the right words. Hugs were given generously. Everything helped, but they couldn't fill the void in my soul. I tried pep talks to convince myself that it was all for the best and so on and so on. I missed my dog and that was it. One noon, a few days after her death, I was walking on the streets of Tavistock. I paused to look into a florist's window, then I saw it - my reflection. What followed though were the thoughts that turned my tears of sorrow into joy. Like the reflection in a mirror or glass, death is the reflection of life. The greater the love you felt, the greater the grief. There are people who die every day that I feel no grief for. However, my dear Sarah's death created a deep and profound sorrow. However, it was only so deep and profound because our love for each other had been so deep and profound, too. The sorrow was a mere reflection of the joy we shared. What a precious thought. It allowed me to cope with my emotions. Every time I experienced the pain, I remembered that it was a mere reflection of the love and a reminder that it still existed. Although no longer with me, Sarah's love was. Then came the question. It changed the tears into sobs of joy. The question? Would I take away any of the precious moments we shared to lessen the sorrow I was experiencing now? The answer was an emphatic NO! As much as I mourned the loss of a great friend, there is no way I would have taken anything away from our experience together. The result was that I embraced the emotions instead of trying to explain them away or rationalize them. Embracing them meant that I could deal with them effectively, since I wasn't trying to avoid them or push them away. Many of you, I'm sure, are going through grief from the death of a loved one. No matter how great the pain may be, if you wouldn't change anything from your life with your loved one to lessen it, you know that you have had a very special relationship with somebody - something that many long for and never experience. When the sorrow comes, remember it as a mere reflection of the love you once shared, and a reminder that it has not gone away. John Stevens John Stevens is a creative, idea person from St. Marys, Ontario, Canada, who does some freelance writing. He is filling his time with some occasional teaching while looking for his next adventure in life. You can email John at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: OT: Exactly what are my rights here?
Well this sounds like a very costly lesson for you, your friend, but esp for Marmalade. There are some details missing from the story and I'm a bit confused. Why, if you were interested in helping this cat did you and your friend decide to call animal control in the first place? What did you think was going to happen when you told them you had a feral cat in a trap and asked them to come and get it? An owner relinquished cat has very little chance of making it out alive from a kill shelter, esp during kitten season when there are so many looking for homes, a feral cat has even less of a chance. I would pray that since you have made it so clear to the staff at the shelter that you want to help this cat that they would take pity on him and release him to you, but I doubt that is going to happen unless you come up with some sort of subterfuge, or get very, very insistent. It may already be too late. If it were me and I was ready to make a life-long commitment to Marmalade, I'd find someone from my neighborhood that hasn't already been involved to go with me to the shelter and claim that Marmalade belongs to them. I'd tell them that I found out that he is an outside cat and here's his owner. There will be fines to pay, and they may still refuse to let you have him, but at this point it's probably your best chance of saving his life. I can tell from the few previous posts I've read from you that you are a caring person and would not have set all this in motion if you had known your shelter's policies. Perhaps this experience will turn you into an advocate for feral and stray cats and in Marmalade's name you will save others from a similar experience. Please educate yourself on TNR and other things you can do to champion the cause of feral/stray cats. I don't know the sort of person you are, but if you are really willing to get involved you can turn your frustration over this into a benefit by working to change your local shelter's policies. Some of our most important lessons come at a very high price. I'm praying that somehow this story ends up having a happy ending. I'm sorry for the pain you must be going through, and I'm very sorry for Marmalade. Please let us know what happens. Nina Hello everyone, Several of you here know my story about trapping an orange and white cat , whom I named Marmalade. The cat was trapped this last Sunday night in my personal trap. The cat was then transported to our local shelter by a policeman. When the cat was turned over, he became the property of the county shelter...He was trapped at my friend's house, together we decided to call the officer...
Nathan Winograd and the No Kill Equation (was Marmalade... The outcome)
Diane, I know you are a feral cat advocate and I usually agree with everything you post, but in this case I do not. My only consolation for this terrible situation is that it might in some way shed light on the practices of our municipal shelters. Glenda wrote to us about how everyone is sorry for what happened, that it was a mistake that Marmalade was killed, but the truth is there was no mistake made here. Shelters are not safe havens with the best interest of individual animals in mind. If this facility's policies, (and the people that operate it) were concerned with saving life, then this would not have been possible. I am writing to the list about this because it is my strong conviction that so called shelters and their policy of killing healthy animals can and must be changed. If every shelter were as dedicated to saving lives first, the way the people on this list are, then things would change. Here was a cat that was trapped and taken to the shelter, a cat that may or may not have belonged to someone, a cat that had Glenda fighting for his right to live, and still they killed him. It's disgraceful and I can't sit by and not comment when I hear opinions chalking it up to misunderstanding. This cat was killed because there weren't enough people, or a strong enough advocate, to make sure he wasn't. Marmalade suffered this fate because the people at the shelter were not interested in saving lives. He is one of many, many animals that die each day because it is easier to kill them then to figure out a way to save them. If every shelter in our country decided that their number one objective was to save lives rather than end them, things would change. Please, everyone join Nathan Winograd in his No Kill movement toward a more enlightened approach to the way this country deals with overpopulation. Here is his website: http://www.nathanwinograd.com/nathanwinograd_004.htm Here is a paste from a recent nmhp forum discussion with Nathan Winograd. He has changed my mind-set about the possibilities of a no-kill nation. I hope he changes yours. The real deception going on in this country is the great lie that animals are being killed in the United States because there are too many animals, not enough homes. The vast majority are being killed because shelters refuse to put into place all the programs and services of the No Kill Equation, which are necessary to save lives. Just to give you one example, every time a shelter kills a neonatal kitten because they lack a foster program, that is a completely preventable death. To say that kitten was killed because of pet overpopulation is not only misleading, it is a bald faced lie. Yet most groups repeat that lie over and over and over. So if the concern is deception, it starts with the kill-oriented traditionalists. How many websites talk about shelters which are saving 91% or more of animals? How many websites state that No Kill has been achieved and others should follow suit? How many say that the reason kittens are being killed is because the shelter director obstinately refuses to implement a foster program? In fact, the most misleading and deceptive term of them all is shelter. Most shelters are nothing of the sort. They are, pure and simply, death camps. Ask yourself if your shelter has: 1. A fully functioning volunteer program where at least 300 people for every 100,000 human residents actually help at least one time per week at the shelter? 2. Offsite adoptions at multiple locations seven days per week? 3. Socialization programs so that cats get out of their cages at least two times per day and dogs at least three times for walks and play time? 4. Medical behavior rehabilitation programs? 5. A fully functioning TNR (Humane Trap-Neuter- Return for feral cats) program that replaces killing with neutering? 6. A foster care program that can foster as many as 25-30% of all impounded animals (and higher during peak periods)? 7. Low and no cost spay/neuter opportunities for at risk animals, somewhere in the neighborhood of a minimum of 1,000 surgeries for every 100,000 human residents? 8. Adoption programs seven days a week with evening and weekend hours? (And without rules and regulations that have no basis in reality but prevent good adoptions such as no puppies or kittens for families with young children, which is the rule at my local shelter!) 9. Carte blanche for legitimate rescue groups to save any animal on death row, any time? 10. Programs beyond haphazard advice from hurried workers on the telephone to help owners overcome the behavioral, medical and environmental conditions which cause them to surrender their pets? 11. Good public relations that keeps the shelter in the public eye? 12. A compassionate, hard working director who holds his or her staff accountable making sure customer service is good, people are friendly, the shelter is clean and responsive, and all the cages and kennels are kept full
Re: OT: Brewer's Yeast
Hi Caroline, First, thank you and your mother for taking in the emaciated kitty. I'm glad she has an appointment at the vet, but it sounds like she is improving and that with good care hopefully she'll recover completely. There is always the danger of weakened organs from malnutrition, and they don't gain the weight back overnight, but the fact that she's eating more normally and is getting perkier is a very good sign for her. What a smart kitty to have found her way to you! What's her name? I've used Brewer's Yeast in the past for my ferals because it's suppose to help ward off ticks and fleas. I hesitate to mention anything I can't find substantiation on, but I remember some sort of precaution about using it with cats. It could have been something about a build up in their systems. I don't think I'd give it to the skinny girl, there are plenty of alternatives for vita supplements that we know to be safe and more effective, but sprinkling it on the feral's food for parasites seems worth any potential risks. I did a quick Google on it and didn't see any reason not to use it. The following article is geared toward human consumption, but it does suggests using 1 tsp daily for cats, (I think that seems like a lot). http://www.answers.com/topic/brewer-s-yeast?cat=health It also talks about gas and bloating or possible allergic reactions to watch out for. I do remember thinking that the ferals seemed less plagued by scratching when I was using it. You guys were talking about First Born, Transfer Factor and colostrum... I just wanted to remind everyone that they do sell colostrum in health food stores and that can be added to food as well. Misty, the emaciated pregnant girl I took in a couple of months ago is doing very well, (I had her on TF, colostrum, homemade kitten formula and canned/wet kitten food). She's finally started to gain back some weight, and she's even prancing and playing now, (she had babies to deal with so her come-back has been very slow). Bless your hearts for caring, Nina On Aug 8, 2007, at 9:49 AM, Caroline Kaufmann wrote: I hate to do this to you guys again because I know there's been discussion about this before, but who uses Brewer's Yeast and what does it do? I bought some yesterday and want to try it out my outdoor Lil Girl that I feed, my foster cat- Izzee, my mom's cat Tally and the malnourished rescue we are currently treating. I know it says it's a supplement and packed with vitamins, but is there anything in particular it is good for? I also thought someone said to be careful with it and very gradually introduce it to the cats food? Or am I making that up? Insight from people currently using it is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Caroline
FIV infected kittes
Hello Group, I just saw that someone was asking for help with an fiv tested kitten. The following is a post I archived from a trusted list member, (MC) about this subject: there is essentially no such thing as an FIV positive kittens. maternal transmission is incredibly rare, and is still not even considered a normal mode of infection. kittens with an infected mom will test positive until mom's antibodies are out of her system--between 6-10 months. no sanctuary or rescue that specializes in FIV cats will take a cat without a positive western blot test, as the snap test is only about 60% accurate. a western blot given before a kitten is old enough for mom's immunities to have worn off WILL test positive, but it won't mean anything. i would NEVER vaccinate a cat against FIV--if the cat ever gets out and into the shelter system, he will test positve (not maybe, DEFINITELY), and unless he's microchipped and someone actually checks his record to see he's been vaccinated, his chances of living long enough to be found by you is slim to none. almost all FIV is spread via DEEP, PENETRATING WOUNDS--the sort that boy cats inflict while fighting over girls. that's why a high percentage of FIV cats are boys, with those girls who have it probably getting it during rough sex. once neutered, almost all male cats lose any desire to be that aggressive. in cases where a tom DOES remain aggressive, filing down or even removing the canine teeth makes it impossible for him to bite deeply enough to pass on the virus. most FIV cats, once neutered, seem to turn into very healthy, very large, very lazy, very cuddly couch potatoes. at the sanctuary where i worked, many FIV cats ended up becoming forever cats of the volunteers, because they were just such sweethearts. i have two FIVs in my household right now, a timid flamepoint himmie who must have gotten out and been attacked cuz there's NO way he would have initiated an argument on his own, and an adolescent coonie. FIV cats tend to be very healthy--they have a higher incidence of herpes infections (easily kept in check with the addition of lysine), and a tendency toward other mouth problems. they get sick just like normal cats, and they get better when treated in a timely manner, just like normal cats! as one of my vets puts it, FIV cats die WITH the virus, not from it. it is TOTALLY different from FeLV in how it's spread, and how it manifests itself. (well, after 18 years, the sanctuary director thinks that being fat and lazy and cuddly are the only consistent symptoms of FIV.) here are two of the better articles on FIV: http://www.afa.arlington.ma.us/FIV.html http://www.bestfriends.org/theanimals/petcare/cats_fiv.cfm MC -- MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: EMERGENCY!!!!!!!!!! House fire!!! (paypal for donations?)
Kelly, I'm getting you guys on digest now and am having a hard time finding where you posted the paypal account to send donations for Susan and her kids to. Could you please repost it, with a link if possible? I've called a rescue-friend that lives in the Bay area and she said she will start networking to see what can be done to help. I just can't believe it, this truly is our worst nightmare come true for Susan and her charges. I'm sending prayers and soothing energy to help Susan and her cats rally and get through this. Susan is always so willing to pitch in and help those in need, I just know that she will be paid back 100 fold for all her kind deeds. Thank you for keeping us informed and please let Susan know we care. Nina
Re: Hi everyone. New here. Need help with my kitty please.
Hello Beckie, I haven't been participating in the group lately, (just too overwhelmed), but I poked my head in and saw your post. I'm so sorry that Moe is having such a hard time! We all know how frustrating and discouraging it can be to watch our furkids suffer and not be able to come up with something to help them. I'm not familiar with Moe's particular symptoms. Felv is such a devil of a disease in that it effects each cat so differently. You never know what to expect from it because it's not the condition itself, but the fact that it hampers their immune response and leaves them vulnerable to cancers and things that a neg cat might be able to more easily fight off. Moe's weak point seems to be his skin. One thing you can do for both your felv cats is help boost their immune systems with supplements. Things like vitamins, interferon A, transfer factor, colostrum, l-lysine etc might help him fight off whatever is effecting his skin. Did your vet put Moe on antibiotics for his eye infection? What kind? Salmon oil, (high in Omega 3), can help with inflammation, but there are times when you have to haul out the big guns, (steroids), to get it under control. It sounds like you may need to seek out the help of someone more qualified to help you deal with this. I'm sure your vet is doing everything they can, but a gp type vet doesn't usually have the experience necessary and may not be willing to do the research to help resolve each issue as it arises. I would look for a board certified Internist and make sure that they are encouraging about treating cats with felv. Poor little Moe sounds like he's having a hard time emotionally as well as physically. I'm not sure that getting rid of the odor from his accidents will stop his improper elimination problems. You must be a wreck too. That can't be helping either of you. Take a deep breath. Resolve to do everything in your power to help Moe be more comfortable and to bring him back to health. Let him know that everything you are doing, no matter how uncomfortable or scary it is in the short term, is aimed at helping him ultimately feel better. Know that there is only so much we can do when it comes to this horrid disease and don't beat yourself up for not knowing everything. Take it one step at a time and be sure to spend as much quiet quality time with Moe as you can. Keep telling him that you will stick by him, that you love him and that you are grateful that he choose you to see him through this. Blessings to you and your family, I hope that you and Moe find the answers you need very soon, Nina Hi everyone. My name is Beckie. I'm 25 and live in Iowa with my boyfriend and 3 cats (2 of whom are FLV positive). I'm hoping you guys can help me. I have a cat named Moe and he's about 3 and has FLV. About 3 weeks ago, I noticed some bumps around his neck and on his back, and he started to lose his hair. I took him to the vet, and she said it was an environmental allergy, gave him some meds and sent us home. Well the meds just made him worse, so the next week I took him back, and this time he had a severe infection in his eye and tapeworms. This time, different meds, and ointment for his eye. STILL not better. This time I took him in to the vet and told them I wasn't leaving until he was better. That was Wed. They gave him a shot for the tapeworms, Frontline for some fleas, his eye was better so more ointment, and Sat. he seemed fine. Now today when we woke up he had gone to the bathroom in the kitchen (which he did when he was originally really sick), and as soon as he sees either one of us, he runs and hides. He also has FLV. I'm worried sick, and don't know what to do. Anyone else here ever deal with something like this? Also, what's the best way to clean up the mess in the kitchen? I want to eliminate the odor so he won't go in there again! Thanks so much! Beckie
Re: Questions about FeLV treatments
Hi Jane, I have used both feline interferon omega, (injectable, non FDA approved, expensive), and human interferon Alpha, (oral, easily obtained, inexpensive). As far as I know I was the first list member to procure a special FDA dispensation for the fio and I have to say, I was disappointed at the results. While I do believe that it helps with symptoms the great hope I had for it as a cure was dashed. I do suspect that it might be something that would help those cats first exposed to throw the virus, but at least anequdotally, it doesn't seem to help them reconvert once the virus has taken hold. If the darn stuff wasn't so expensive and hard to get I'd consider it a valuable tool in our arsenal, as things stand, I just don't know. IA on the other hand is something that I would always keep on hand and feel is worth using, (that is what I was suggesting the last time I brought up your using interferon for MeMe). It's easy to administer and it does seem to help most cats, at the very least, feel better. I have never personally used Immuno-Regulin, but the reports from list members are enough to convince me that it is worth a shot, (no pun intended), when symptoms are not alleviated with more common treatments like antibiotics. There have been several accounts of it helping with symptoms of infection like fever spikes. From what I understand, it is a bacteria that when introduced causes a boost in immune response that also helps battle current unexplained symptoms. The recommended protocol is IV injection, but at least one of our list members had good results using it subq and Best Friends uses it IM on a monthly bases for their felv+ cats. Have you discussed using it with your vet? You might point her to the vets at Best Friends since you seem fortunate enough to have a vet that is willing to research options. What type of antibiotic has MeMe been prescribed? There are so many different abx out there you may not have hit on the right one to help with her symptoms. Have you tried the broad spectrum abx like Baytril and/or Doxi? I am sending prayers and good thoughts that the recent lump you discovered has dissipated by now and that it was nothing more than a stubbornly swollen lymph node. Hugs to both you and MeMe, Nina Jane Lyons wrote: I am trying to decide what the best treatment would be for my cat (MeMe) who has 'moderate, but improving symptoms' of FeLV. (we are having success with stomatitis and giardia, but still have some swollen glands and a runny nose). I asked one vet that I use to order Virbagen Omega for me. This is her response to my request: Jane, The info on this is not encouraging. Besides the expense, the European vets don't feel it's a cure all. Here's a brief summary of the one study: J vet Int Med July-Aug 2004. Therapeutic Effects of recombinant feline interferon-omega on felv-infected and felv/fiv infected symptomatic cats Recombinant feline interferon omega or felv and felv/fiv cats compared to 42 controls, 39 Ifn treated cats at 9 ms, mortality was 39% in the Ifn cats, 59% in controls; at 1yr, mortality was 47% v.59%. Ifn treatment gave minor but consistent improvement in blood parameters (rbc count, wbc count). So: statistical improvement but half still died by 1 year. Dr.E I have just read an article that was referenced on the Feline Leukemia site by Dr. Karen Thomas who was promoting the use of ImmunoRegulin. The article is not dated, and it is not clear if the information is current, or if there is any connection to interferon. Is there anyone who has experience with these treatments, or could direct me to someone who does? Thanks very much Jane
Re: Ki still has a fever
Hi Dede, I'm jumping in here without having read all of your posts... You can pick up probiotics like acidophilus at any health food store. I've been using one marketed specifically for pets, (I get it at the health food store too), called Petdopholus. They are tasteless and can be sprinkled on food. I was just writing to Jane about I-R helping with unexplained fever spikes, have you or your vet considered it? I hope Ki feels better soon. It's a good sign that he's eating again. Prayers that your hubby finds a well paying job very soon! Nina dede hicken wrote: Well, the vet is out for the day. This is only the 2nd day of baytril. His fever is 104, and he won't eat. Seems to be drinking, though. He is a stinker to feed. The vet doesn't carry any probiotics. Where cn i get the fortiflora (sp)?.. Any ideas on how to bring the fever down? I have a few meds here. I HATE it when they are sick!!! Dede When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God Mosiah 2:17 Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
Going digest for a while
Hi Wendy and all, I'm cc'ing Michelle this, (maybe someone has already sent her a copy of your post to Phaewryn), I'm guessing she'll appreciate it as much as I did. You may have noticed my absence on the list lately... My back is giving me trouble and it makes it hard to sit at the computer for more than a few minutes at a time. Like so many of us, I'm also overwhelmed with rescue efforts, (a young, emaciated pregnant girl, just a kitten herself, showed up in my front yard last Thurs and had her babies on Sat!). I'll be pulling back from the list for at least a while. I'm not sure how much Phaewrn's latest tirade had to do with the decision, but I just don't seem to have the energy to share right now. Maybe it has nothing to do with the changing dynamics of the list at all and it's just a matter of exhaustion and physical pain. I hope I'll be back soon. I feel a little traitorous leaving you all, so many of the old-timers seem to be posting less and less. This list has been a Godsend to me and so many others, I will always be grateful for the support, friendship, information and feeling of HOME that I've experienced here. Much love and good wishes to all of you always, Nina wendy wrote: Phaewryn, This is the 3rd time in a year that you have gone off on other members inappropriately and then claimed to be leaving. I think you need to stop. It is not right or fair to insult other people and then stick your neck in the sand. No one here agrees 100% with any other member on this site. When this happens, either we respectfully disagree, or we just don't say anything. There is no reason to go on a mission to destroy. It is so clear that when you do this, there's much more underlying your verbal spews that has nothing to do with this group and everything to do with your own life. If you are stressed out, stop taking it out here. It's not right. I completely disagree with your statement that for the past year that the validity of the site has been laughable. If you remember, I joined this list a year a half ago. I have learned SO MUCH from this list in the past year a half, and that knowledge has spurred me to do a lot of further research. I am actually able to help others here. I came here so needy and ignorant only to come out more knowledgeable on many aspects of feline care, all because of the loving members of this group. That includes you. No, I didn't prescribe to all the advice given, but took it all in, did my own research, and am still paying it back to new members who came her just like I did. The validity of this group is just as strong as it was six years ago. What you say about a/c's could be true, but you don't know. I don't know. Neither of us have tried one. You can't prove anything intangible exists anyway. What would you say to someone who says you don't love your son because it can't be proven? Indeed, it cannot be proven in a quantitative or tangible way, as no intangibles can. You can't see them, you can't touch them. But nevertheless, your love for your son IS there and it IS true. Same way for faith in God for some of us. So I hope that you will begin to question your own belief that unless you can prove something, it might as well not exist. There is suffering in the world so we can grow. If there were no suffering, there would be no happiness. You cannot know real happiness if you never have struggles and make personal growth. And FYI, prayer is not crap. You have asked for it yourself here. Please, make an effort to hold your tongue. The 24-hour rule always works for me. Write your letter in a word document, save it, and go back and read it in 24 hours. Revise as needed. You might need 48 hours. I did it when writing this post to you. I waited until I slept on it before responding. And my post shows much less anger, and more sense than it would have had I immediately responded. Save your sarcasm for yourself. No one else appreciates it. Dealing with sick animals is hard enough without you making everyone feel badly. I felt like you once, over ten years ago, making everyone around me feel bad because I felt bad inside. I got help with a great counselor for a year. Worked through a lot of childhood issues. Some adult issues. I've been a new woman ever since. Stronger, more secure, and most importantly, happier with who I am. I'll never regret my decision to get help. I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy to feel like I did before I got help. And I certainly don't wish it on you or anyone else on this list. I truly hope, and will pray, that you find some way to deal with these issues in your personal life that keep plaguing you. Life has so much to offer us. Sincerely, Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade
Giardia treatments (was: sorry for the wrong reply)
Thank you very much for the information Belinda! I've archived it, hopefully I'll never need it. N Belinda wrote: OK apparently the drotal wasn't for Kisa but MeMe for giardia, this is what I found on treatment for giardia, Joey has had this and did not get drontal for that, he got pancuer. This is written by a vet, Dr Mike: http://www.vetinfo4cats.com/cgiardia.html The recommendations for eliminating giardia from a multiple cat household are somewhat forbidding. It is considered to be best to treat all the cats with fenbendazole (Panacur Rx) at 50mg/kg once a day for 3 days. Then move the cats to an area that has been cleaned thoroughly and disinfected with quaternary ammonium disinfectant or steam cleaned. Then steam clean or disinfect the part of the house the cats were previously living in. Bathe all the cats, clipping long haired cats if necessary to ensure removal of all fecal material from their hair. It is supposed to be safe to disinfect cats with the quaternary ammonium disinfectant (Barr et. al., May 1994 Compenium on Continuing Education) but I have to admit that I wouldn't want to recommend that to most of my clients. Put the cats back into the original area several days after it is cleaned and allowed to dry thoroughly. Administer fenbendazole again. Repeat the process until the infection is permanently cleared from the household. If cats can become re-exposed from a contaminated water source it may be impossible to completely control giardia infection. You might want to consider the vaccination for giardia in that circumstance (cuts down on shedding, decreases diarrhea, doesn't prevent infection in most cats) and/or routine use of fenbendazole on a schedule that seems reasonable to you and your vet. Any new cats should be treated with fenbendazole prior to their introduction into the household. The briefer answer to your question is that if you clean the bowls well then really air dry them thoroughly, they should not be a contamination source. If you want to be extra careful, pour boiling water in them, wash them in the dishwasher and/or use disinfectants on them. Unless there is something really strange going on in your water system, there should be no way that washing the bowls contaminants the rest of the household water supply --- although it theoretically might expose you to infection directly and the sink could be contaminated and serve as a method of spreading the infection. I hope this is helpful. Mike Richards, DVM 4/6/2002 Here is a site that say's Drontal has been shown to be effective against giardia as well as other drugs that work, but if it is causing nausea and vomiting maybe something else would be better: http://www.manhattancats.com/Articles/Giardia.html *Overview* Giardia is a protozoan parasite found all over the world. It can affect humans, most types of domesticated mammals, and birds. The parasite lives in the intestinal tract and causes damage to the intestines. Giardia can affect either sex, and any breed, although it is most commonly seen in young animals and animals confined together in groups, such as in kennels, shelters, and pet stores. Although most cases of human Giardia point to other sources of infection (person-to-person contact, or by contaminated water), animals do harbor strains of Giardia that are infective to humans, and animal to human transmission is theoretically possible. Diarrhea is the most common sign of infection. Some animals may vomit in addition to the diarrhea. Weight loss may occur secondary to the diarrhea. In many instances, a cat may be infected with Giardia, but show no clinical signs at all. There are several ways to diagnose Giardia infection. The most common methods involve analysis of a fecal sample. Direct analysis of a fecal sample may lead to a quick diagnosis. A fecal sample can also be sent to a diagnostic laboratory for more sophisticated immunology-based diagnostic tests.* * *Treatment * Several drugs have been used to treat Giardia infections. Antiparasitic drugs are the mainstay of therapy, however, additional measures, such as adding extra fiber to the diet, can help hasten recovery.* * Metrodinazole (Flagyl) has been used extensively to treat Giardia in dogs and cats, as well as in people. This drug has reasonable efficacy, and has an added advantage of being effective against other protozoans and some bacteria that might also be contributing to the diarrhea. Side effects involving the nervous system have been reported in some animals, although this is uncommon. Fenbendazole (Panacur) is a dewormer that kills common worms such as hookworms, roundworms, and whipworms. When given at the normal deworming dose, fenbendazole is also very effective in treating Giardia. This drug is very safe and fairly inexpensive. Praziquantel/pyrantel/febantel (Drontal Plus) is a combination dewormer that treats hookworms,
Re: OT - Phelix...and lessons learned.
Elizabeth, I hope you are feeling better today. Isn't it amazing that no matter how bad we feel, we can gather the energy from somewhere when our loved ones need us? I'm glad to hear that Phelix is okay and that it was just a nasty scare. It's so sweet the way the two of you are taking care of each other. Speaking as someone with a urine entrenched dryer situation, I have to say that the scent-association of lavender sounds a hell of a lot more pleasant! Hugs sweetie, Nina elizabeth trent wrote: Phelix was taking care of me today because I home and not feeling well. He's always by my side and took a nap with me. He's the one with allergies that was born with only one eye. He's been scratching a lot lately and I woke up and looked at him and he couldn't open his eye! And there was blood. I nearly panicked. I didn't care how bad I felt - I was getting that boy to the doctor. By the time we got there - he was looking a lot better and looking around - no bleeding - but I was so worried and I really need to protect his one good eye. They examined it and put drops in and looked to make sure he hadn't scratched his cornea. They also checked his ears - they look good...and checked for fleas (he doesn't have any). The vet thinks that when Phelix was scratching, his dew claw caught his eye and ripped through the bottom eyelid. They trimmed those for me and gave him a steroid shot because he's really been itchy lately (his tummy is bald but his ears have really been itchy). They gave him some salve for me to use in his eye 2-3 times a day -- it just says 'BNP-HC ophth. ointment'. It has an antibiotic and a steroid in it. Since Phelix's ears are so itchy, we're going to do the tresoderm a few days too just to be extra sure. I feel bad because I'm not very good about keeping toenails trimmedbut I sure will from now on! Thank goodness I was home when that happened. It looks much, much better now and Phelix keeps telling me it was no big deal. Just thought I'd pass that along in case it would help someone else. Phelix thinks it is his god-given right to go outside everyday when I get home and roll in the lavender. He'll let me know if I'm not fast enough letting him out. Today when I took him in the girls kept saying --- Phelix smells like lavender!! :0) He's such a ladies man. All good thoughts to you and your fur babies. elizabeth
Re: Update on Kisa
Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called *FortiFlora* and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99: http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=FortiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnsearch.html http://search.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=entirelypetsquery=FortiFlorax=12y=9.autodone=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.yahoo.com%2Fentirelypets%2Fnsearch.html Melissa Lind wrote: I've got to take our Ashley in tomorrow--still has loose stools. But, she's not FeLV+, so I guess I should move my thoughts on her to the other discussion... Anyways, you made it through Monday--and that's great! Melissa
FortiFlora (was Update on Kisa)
Thanks for the feedback Kelley. Did you use it for treating diarrhea, or just as a probiotic supplement? Did you see any results you could report? N Kelley Saveika wrote: My vet has recommended this to me as well. On 6/5/07, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Melissa, Did you see the post about FortiFlora from Jane? You might want to ask your vet about it. Here's a paste from an email I sent to someone else battling diarrhea with her cat: My sister forwarded your update about Sophie to me and I had a thought... Someone on my felv list has a homeopathic vet that she really trusts and a kitty with diarrhea issues. Her vet suggested a probiotic, (which Sophie should be on anyway if she's taking abx), made by all people, Purina. It's called FortiFlora and this vet described the results she's had with it as profound. I did a quick search looking for studies/info besides that provided by the manufacturers and haven't been able to find anything yet, but that's probably because it's a proprietary blend supplement and I'd have to research ingredients rather than the name of the product. Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering it for my gang, (esp my IBD girl Gypsy) and thought you might be interested in checking it out too. It's suppose to promote immunity as well as intestinal health. I found it at EntirelyPets.com for $23.99
Re: Caroline still not eating or drinking
I'm guessing you have tried different types of foods, different levels of warming, liqiud vs ground, minced and warmed raw muscle meat, lunch meats, broth, baby food, sour cream, pan fried salmon in olive oil, KFC, etc etc. Sometimes they'll lap at something but won't want to chew. Gypsy would sometimes take warm goat's milk with a drop of salmon oil in it for aroma, (yuk, I know). I can't tell you how many times I've traversed the food isles in the supermarket looking for something/anything that might appeal to a cat that didn't want to eat. I even bought some caviar one time, it didn't go over very well, maybe I should have stepped up and bought the more expensive brand. Sometimes changing from a bowl to a plate, or changing the place where they usually eat helps. Are you giving her appetite stimulants? I've used transdermals with good results for that. Does she have a forbidden food that you might temp her with? A few of mine will eat Temptation treats when they won't touch anything else. Sometimes just getting them started with syringing or spoon/finger feeding something tasty will remind them that it's good to eat and they'll eat off a plate you shove in their face after an assisted taste. I've actually had good results when I tell them that unless they eat on their own, I'll have to continue to syringe food into them. Remind me, did Caroline have issues with nausea? I am convinced that even a food that they used to love will be on their unsuitable to eat list if they have had digestive issues after consuming that food. They seem to blame the particular food for their troubles. Does she act like she's interested in eating and then turn her nose up to it when you place it in front of her? N Kelley Saveika wrote: Dr. Samon says physically there is no reason she can't eat or drink. I'm giving her subq fluids, which is the easy part, but it is difficult to impossible to get food down her. She hides behind the toilet, turns her head away, etc.
Skidboot video
Here's a video that had me in happy tears, something I know we could all use: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5249518974978628334pr=goog-sl http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5249518974978628334pr=goog-sl
Re: Update on Kisa
I almost hate to bring this up, but Dox is really harsh on the esophagus. My vet tech told me about a guy, (human), that stupidly took some without water and burned a hole in his throat. It's really important to wash pills down with a little bit of water, tuna water, or when I was giving meds to my felv guys, I'd follow the pill with their Interferon. You want to make sure they swallow Dox. If you can get them to eat or drink directly afterward that works, but Kisa's not eating that much so I'd syringe just a tiny bit of liquid to be sure. N C J wrote: We could do this with Tomi, but Kisa is like trying to pill a wild squirrel. She moves too fast to even react, and can squirm away in any direction...plus her mouth is small. This is with both my husband and I holding her wrapped in a towel, plus she's weak and anemic. It's even harder as she gains strength. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Please, please, please continue her daily shots of dex. The situation you share with Kisa is so eerily familiar that I don't think her current rebound is coincidental with the administration. It's such wonderful news that you've gotten a reprieve with sweet Kisa. I know how hard the battle to restrain your hopes can be, esp with her showing interest in food! You don't have to fight the feeling of happiness, you have every reason to be joyful that she is still with you, and as I've said so many times before, where there is life there is always hope. Do your best to be grateful without being expectant; continue to stand by her and enjoy her presence without quantifying it. I don't even have to preface my following advice with if I were you, I WAS YOU just a few short months ago, (I went through this very thing with my Angel Spencer). I was given the opportunity to let go of the decision dance (as our friend Leslie put it) and free myself of the anxieties, frustrations and expectations that come with so desperately trying to save our fur kids. Somehow I was given the strength to release all that and live every moment fully cognizant of the gift of reprieve with my Spencer. It was one of the most rewarding times of my life and I'll always be grateful to him for the opportunity. You see, Spencer gave me the opportunity to let go of my fear, to accept whatever might come and to commune with another being in the purest form of simply BEING. My prayer for you is that you are able to step away from your expectations, love her unconditionally and be grateful for whatever time the two of you have left in the physical, be it long or short. Many blessings and much love, Nina C J wrote: A small update on Kisa. I didn't think she would make it through the night, and at one point I checked on her and thought she was gone, because I didn't see the heavy breathing. She did make it through the night, and I was seriously considering taking her in to the vet for euthanasia. I asked her if I should, and was very upset I wasn't strong enough to make that decision. Well, now she actually looks a little bit better. She's very weak, but she seems more alert and her breathing, while still fast, isn't quite as labored and she's not breathing through her mouth. It could be the dexamethasone making some sort of difference. And then the strangest thing of all happened, she ate about 1 and a half tablespoons of pureed liver, by licking it off the back of a spoon. This is the first time in two weeks since this started, that she didn't gag at the very sight/smell of food. I couldn't believe she actually ate. She must not be feeling as nauseous, and so far she hasn't vomited today. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but this is the first positive thing that has happened for her in two weeks. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how she does over the next couple of days. If she's trying to get better, she has an awful lot to overcome yet in order to do so. I've got a full IV bag of sub-q fluids to keep her hydrated at least. Just a question on that, how much fluid should she get in a day? I gave her about 100ml, six hours ago, and it still hasn't all soaked in from under the skin at the back of her neck. Cassandra
Re: any suggestions
Jane, This is just my personal opinion, but I would stop the Drontal, at least until you can talk to your vet. The fact that she was improving and that it is highly suspect that the Drontal put her off her food and (may have stressed her enough to bring back the runny eye symptom), makes me think that a step backward might be in order. When I looked into treating Giardia with Drontal, I neglected to also check for dosages. I don't know the mg dosage you are giving her but 2x daily for 5 days seems excessive to me. Worming meds, by their very nature are toxic. She may be refusing to eat because she's nauseous, give her some time to settle her stomach before you start to worry too much. Nina Jane Lyons wrote: It has been one week since MeMe's diagnosis and yesterday I thought we were making progress. Her swollen glands are noticeably diminished, her sneezing has all but stopped and her bad breath from stomatitis is very much improved. Her appetite has been great and I have been able to get her to finish the daily dose of FortiFlora (probiotic) which my vet is so hopeful about. We are also giving her the Maitake-DMG twice each day. All was fine until the Drontal tablets arrived. My vet prescribed two tablets daily (the canine variety) for 5 days to treat her Giardia. She had consulted with Bayer before prescribing it. The Metroniidazole that she had been on did not work. Last night her right eye became very runny and she threw up a good bit of what looked like clear liquid. This morning she refused food (I tried everything I could think of) and I resorted to putting a blob of Nuti-cal on her paw. I suspect the Drontal is upsetting her stomach. I cannot reach my vet until Monday and cannot give her supplements on an empty stomach. She is so sweet and so vulnerable. I wish I could get her to a place where she has a fighting chance. Thanks for listening. Jane
Hideyo got her missing cat Maddie!
Some of you good folks might remember that Hideyo has been searching for an adopted kitty that went missing the very first night she was in her new home. Well last night, (actually, this morning at 3:30am), Hideyo was able to trap Maddie using a drop trap! All of you who know Hideyo can imagine the tireless effort that has gone into this rescue effort and I'm so pleased to report that it has paid off with Maddie's safe return from her adventure. Food had been placed in the yard of the house where she escaped from and a couple of the neighbors had been reporting sightings. Regular traps weren't working, so Hideyo had a drop trap made and camped out for a couple nights until she got her! Marissa, I hope you're reading this, have heart my dear and keep trying to find Georgia. Here's the paste of the message Hideyo wanted me to convey to the list: Nina, could you also let everyone on FELK list know that I was able to bring Maddie home..-- mainly so that people won't easily give up if they lose theirs -- 5 five weeks later, I was able to reunite with Maddie.. and I want people not to give up easily if they really want to find theirs -- I also know of a really really good AC besides Carol [Carol Robinson http://www.animal-conversations.com/index.html ] -- I love Carol.. but I also love Annette Betcher [ http://www.seanet.com/~angelb/ http://www.seanet.com/%7Eangelb/ ] -- I just love her personality, and I think you should try her and Carol (or anyone else for that matter) if there is any need in the future!! Hideyo
Re: Update on Kisa
I had Spencer on .4cc every 24 hours. At one point I tried cutting back to eod, but it was obvious that wasn't enough. You might want to try the A/D as Tad suggests, but if it were me, I wouldn't mess with trying to add vita to the liver she's eating. Hugs to you both, N C J wrote: I'm giving her 1cc of Dex every 12ish hours. Right now I am just grateful to be able to spend a bit more time with her, since 2 nights ago I was sure she would die at any moment. To see her more alert, purring and trying to eat, she can't be in much pain or discomfort. I think she is just really tired and weak. I'm just grateful to be able to spend some time with her while she's feeling a bit better. I don't know what will happen, but Kisa isn't quite done fighting yet. She sure is a brave little girl. The improvement may only last a day, or may last for years, but I will try not to worry too much because whatever time we have left is precious. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
Cassandra, I went looking for dosage and duration info about dex. I know the info is out there, I just haven't found it yet. I know how you feel re vets and giving up on them/them giving up on you, but you should call them and see if there is someone in the office that has experience using dex with kitties to get feedback on dosage using injectable dex for Kisa. Below are some pastes I grabbed while researching, I think most if not all were pertaining to humans rather than felines though. I also remember it being recommended to give the injection before 9am, but I can't remember exactly why... Something about mirroring a natural occurrence in the body. I would absolutely cut down on the dosage amount/times you are now injecting Kisa and see how she does. I'm sorry I can't be of more help with this, you're doing great. Keep breathing. Nina * The duration of therapy is dependent on the clinical response of the patient and as soon as improvement is indicated, the dosage should be adjusted to the minimum required to maintain the desired clinical response. * Dexamethasone is a long acting corticosteroid with biologic half-life ranging from 36-72 hours. * Dexamethasone is often prescribed to patients with cancer. In some cases, the drug is part of the drug treatment for the disease, and in other cases it is used to manage side effects caused by the treatment or the cancer itself. For example, dexamethasone may be given to treat nausea http://www.answers.com/topic/nausea and vomiting associated with chemotherapy http://www.answers.com/topic/chemotherapy. * Dosages to treat disease are highly individualized, but generally start at 0.75 mg per day. The lowest therapeutic dose should be given, though amounts given may need to be increased during times of stress. Dosages of medications may be changed based on factors specific to the individual. C J wrote: Hmm, I wonder if 1cc every 12 hours isn't too much of the Dex then. Maybe I should cut it back to half a cc every 12 hours and see how that goes. I don't want to shut down her immune system completely. 1cc every 12 hours is what the vet gave me for Tomi to replace 1 prednisone pill every 12 hours. I never really used the shots for him though. Cassandra - Original Message - From: Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Update on Kisa I had Spencer on .4cc every 24 hours. At one point I tried cutting back to eod, but it was obvious that wasn't enough. You might want to try the A/D as Tad suggests, but if it were me, I wouldn't mess with trying to add vita to the liver she's eating. Hugs to you both, N C J wrote: I'm giving her 1cc of Dex every 12ish hours. Right now I am just grateful to be able to spend a bit more time with her, since 2 nights ago I was sure she would die at any moment. To see her more alert, purring and trying to eat, she can't be in much pain or discomfort. I think she is just really tired and weak. I'm just grateful to be able to spend some time with her while she's feeling a bit better. I don't know what will happen, but Kisa isn't quite done fighting yet. She sure is a brave little girl. The improvement may only last a day, or may last for years, but I will try not to worry too much because whatever time we have left is precious. Cassandra -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.6/828 - Release Date: 6/1/2007 11:22 AM
Re: sorry for the wrong reply
I figured that out. The Drontal reference was about Jane and her baby MeMe. MeMe has been prescribed Drontal for Giardia. I'll let Hideyo know how pleased you were to hear about Maddie. She'd have to sleep better now. She's been staying up all night monitoring the drop trap for the last few nights. You'll probably also be pleased to know that Hideyo didn't feel compelled to bring Maddie back home to her house! Hooray Hideyo! N Kelly L wrote: sorry guys, I was replying to cassandra about Kissa rather than Hideyo Bt the way. Please pass on to Hideyo that is is absolutely wonderful news and I bet she will be sleeping better!! Kelly
Re: Update on Kisa
Tad, I think that's a great food to try with Kisa, esp since she likes liver! Here's the recipe paste from Michelle: Here is the liver shake recipe: 1 cup raw liver (chicken or beef, I use chicken) 1 cup fresh carrot juice, tomato juice, or V-8 1/4 cup filtered water 1 raw egg yolk 1 tsp kelp or spirulina Blend until liquid and frothy. I make it in half batches (though use a whole egg yolk), and warm up small amounts for Simon. I had to put it on his lips the first few times to get him to eat it. it is supposed to be complete nutrition. Tad Burnett wrote: We used to make a Liver Shake here that was basically liver and a little tomato or V8 juice... Sick cats seem to love that but some people say it has onions in it... But I can't see that it does... Anybody have any thoughts on this ??? Tad
Re: To Pam: Re: Anyone have experience with respiratory distress likely caused by anemia?
Wendy, I wanted to write and support your point here about tempering our ardent opinions in ways that will help those suffering best benefit by them. I'm glad you decided to speak up about it, it doesn't hurt to remind everyone about being careful to not appear judgmental or authoritative. I also understand how hard it is to not be zealous in our desire to enlighten people about what has worked for us. All we want to do is help each other, we have to be careful not to hurt and/or alienate in the process. Nina wendy wrote: I just want people to feel comfortable here and be given advice in a way that doesn't alienate them. I know it's not my 'website', but I feel strongly that it's important for people to come here for guidance and knowledge given in an open manner. It's tricky, because the whole nature of this site is via advice, but the advice has to be presented in a certain way.
Re: Update on Kisa
I'm so glad she likes it! Don't get greedy about switching her to a plate, we don't want to jinx her! :-) . It's making me smile to picture you on your hands and knees coaxing her to eat and actually having her do it! Been there, done that :-) . C'mon Kisa! N C J wrote: Kisa likes the liver shake. She wasn't interested at first, but I just held the spoon in front of her nose until she tried it. I don't know why she'd like it though, it smells awful..mostly like tomato. Now I just need to get her eating off a plate. It's really slow going dipping a spoon in food and letting her lick the back. Cassandra
Re: Lycine and supplement fatigue
I buy Lysine at Costco. You can get it at health food stores in a powder form as well as tablet, (you could always ask them there what brand they feel is the best). It's pretty much tasteless. I just grind it up with a mortar and pestle and add it to their food. If I have someone being fussy, I'll add it to Beechnut meat baby food, (whatever flavor they prefer), or some of that nasty, but oh-so-apparently-yummy canned Fancy Feast. I never really thought about 'supplement fatigue' :-) , although there have been times in my house that I thought I'd go stark raving mad with all the schedules and meds. Usually I'm just so pleased to feel like I'm doing something that I don't think about it much. I've found a trick that works really well for kitties with a good appetite... I use pill pockets to cover a small pill with just enough product to disguise the look and taste, hide it in a tiny bit of something yummy and make a big fuss like they are getting a special treat, (then hold my breath while I watch to make sure they gulp it down). My fiv boy, Starman will eat a pill hidden this way if I put it in front of him with a couple of those terrible Temptation treats that he's hooked on. Since MeMe loves her kitty-crack dry food so much, she might gobble a hidden pill down mixed with a few pieces of the forbidden kibble. I also get meds in transdermal gels, (applied to the inside tip of the ear to be absorbed through the skin) whenever appropriate. A lot of drugs can be administered via subq injection. As scary as this is to do at first, it's usually less traumatic than a having to pill them. How is MeMe feeling this evening? Did you decide to stop the Drontal? Is she eating again? How's her eye? N Jane Lyons wrote: What is the best quality Lycine to get? I just Googled it, and there are dozens of brands and I know that since supplements are not regulated, that a quality name is important. Also, how do all of you deal with the 'supplement fatigue'. We've only been into this for a week, but I can see that MeMe is getting wary of the eye dropper and pill plunger. I have been able to get the probiotic into her with food, but the liquids and pills require my husband and I baring down. I would like to include lycine in her regimeany tricks? Jane
Re: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals -- good news
I'm thrilled to hear he has had a change of heart. I wonder what turned things around, but really, I don't care. Good vibes that he stays in his present state of mind toward the cats and you. Maybe his wife does have some influence on him. The house next door to me has a for rent sign in the window. I'm past the point of wishing for like-minded people to move in when the houses turn over, I just hope they aren't hostile and that if they do have pets they care for them. Maybe you guys could send some good energy my way? N Rosenfeldt, Diane wrote: Great news, Anita. I hope this turns into a total non-situation from now on. Diane R. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Stray Cat Alliance *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2007 8:58 AM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* RE: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals -- good news Hi everyone, just wanted to give you an update on the neighbor situation. I was out back last night and saw my neighbor and told him I'd take care of any pooh issues and to let me know if he has any other issueshe said no no, that is okay. I have calmed down and am not mad at anyone. They are just animals. My wife saw the cat out back yesterday and it went out of the yardI said they are unowned kitties and are afraid of people and I don't let my cats outside. He said I know I know. His wife popped her head out of the window and said not to worry -- they are animals and that happens everywhere. I said I just want to make sure they are happy, and she said we are happy we are happy. Which is all wonderful! I am still going to keep checking tho and cleaning any poop up -- some animal is still pooping down there. Thank you everyone for your wonderful advice! Anita Every year shelters kill almost 5,000,000 cats, dogs, puppies kittens. Most were beautiful, loving creatures (even feral cats!) that died simply because they did not have a home. Every puppy or kitten born costs a shelter animal its life. Save lives, spay-neuter, support Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) adopt for life! Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:24:42 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org What a jerk! A little poop never hurt, and besides, who knows if it's the cats or not? I would definitely keep an eye out on this guy and I would report his threat to the ASPCA in case anything happens to the kitties. I'll be praying for them. Gina */wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Anita, I'm so sorry. That stinks that your new neighbor is being a jerk. Saying you're going to kill an animal is very serious and cruel. Is it an option for you to speak with the wife when he is not home? Maybe she doesn't know that he did this. Also, could you talk to the ferals the next time you feed them and explain the situation and tell them that this guys is dangerous. Maybe that would help. If this situation gets more serious, there are options, like calling a shelter to have the ferals trapped and moved to someplace safe, or calling the aspca on this guy. Prayers going out that his heart would soften and that the kitties stay out of his path. :) Wendy --- Stray Cat Alliance wrote: Do you believe this storyevery day, I feed my front yard and back yard cats (I love in a townhome attached on both sides)..and have done so since we moved into the City in 1998. Last May my elderly neighbor moved out (she was pet friendly and had volunteered at the Humane Society) and new neighbors moved in (no pets). Over the weekend, I was cleaning out my backyard house of straw from winter and the husband neighbor came over and said a cat was pooping in the landing of his basement steps. I said I feed only stray cats and you can't control where they go as you can't control the birds pooping where they want. He said you don't walk in bird poop. But in any case, I said to let me think about the situation as it never happened before. So I went in and got a plastic bag and cleaned up the poop as I didn't want any problems. Funny that noone ever pooped in our landing but ours smells a lot better - not that musty yuck smell. Then that night, in the middle of the night, I realized the one thing that changed was my husband put stone along the only grassy section in the backyard. In the morning, I asked my husband to move the stones as I figured that would probably
Re: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals -- good news
Thanks sweetie, I feel it and it's giving me hope. Stray Cat Alliance wrote: I'm sending you much white light for nice animal friendly neighbors! It makes things so much better all the way around. Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 10:43:28 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals -- good news To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org I'm thrilled to hear he has had a change of heart. I wonder what turned things around, but really, I don't care. Good vibes that he stays in his present state of mind toward the cats and you. Maybe his wife does have some influence on him. The house next door to me has a for rent sign in the window. I'm past the point of wishing for like-minded people to move in when the houses turn over, I just hope they aren't hostile and that if they do have pets they care for them. Maybe you guys could send some good energy my way? N
Re: Opinions Needed
I absolutely agree with Diane and your husband. I think it's wonderful of you to want to call attention to the plight of the innocent, but as Diane says, don't call attention to you and yours in the process. I'd make the letter a lot more general, leaving out many of the details that might call personal attention to you. N Rosenfeldt, Diane wrote: Debbie, it's a great letter. I'm just thinking maybe you'd be safer leaving out the details of your various rescued pets. Maybe just say you couldn't take them in because you already have the legal limit of happy, healthy, neutered, vaccinated and deeply loved pets, all of whom are former rescues just like these babies. That way, you wouldn't be calling undue attention to yourself in case you're over the limit, and you're not lying about anything (you DO have the legal limit, you just leave off the and then some!), and you're demonstrating by your own example what responsible pet ownership means. *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Debbie *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2007 2:49 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Opinions Needed This is a letter to the editor of our local paper concerning the kittens we found dumped over the weekend. My husband is afraid it will cause trouble if they print it with a name and town. What do you think? Myself, I doubt anyone will really pay attention. I am curious to know what you guys think. Thanks for the input. Debbie
Re: For Rent To Animal Lover
Thank you Jane. While we're visualizing... I just wrote MC off-list about the dream that swims around in the back of my head :-) Don't laugh, but I have a dream in the back of my head about having an animal friendly Godfather like compound. A complex of houses with a big, safe common area filled with trees and each surrounding house has it's own little fenced yard and garage surrounded by a massive wall and maybe a moat. I'd fill all the houses with people like you and we'd all work and live together in harmony with our furbabies. It could happen! Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm late for my shock therapy treatment. Jane Lyons wrote: Nina I'm visualizing the reincarnation of James Herriot (All Creatures Great and Small) renting the house next door. Here's hoping your caring vibes attract a conscious person. Jane
Re: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals
Hey Anita, This is one of my worst nightmares. The apathy in my less than desirable neighborhood causes my overcrowded rescue efforts, but it also has the benefit of protecting me from just this sort of thing. I know how distasteful this suggestion is going to sound, but I think your best bet is to muster the stomach to appease this horrible new neighbor of yours. People like this are desperate for attention. Give it to him! If I were you, I'd go over there and tell him that even though these animals are strays, you love them and feel responsible for them. Let him know you understand why he's upset and, if he'll let you, tell him what you are planing to do to rectify the situation. Ask him to allow you a time frame to see if your ideas are working, (maybe a month). Don't make suggestions about what he could do, ask him to let you do these things FOR him. Clean out his landing, spray cat-be-gone products, block the entrance, pour wood chips in any area that looks like a cat might use to relieve themselves. Enlist his help by asking him to let you know if he spots any cats on his property and to call you so you can come and clean up any messes they make. I would tell him you are sorry that you got off on the wrong foot and maybe even apologize for my husband's rudeness, (very difficult to do, I know). In short kiss this guy's ass! Believe me, I understand how hard this might be to do, but you have to think of the end result. You don't want him calling animal control, and you certainly don't want him putting poison down for your unsuspecting cats. Nip this feud in the bud, it's not about you, it's about the safety of your babies. I would figure out some sort of enclosure if you can and start trapping asap. I'm sorry this has happened. Please let us know how it is going, Nina Stray Cat Alliance wrote: Do you believe this storyevery day, I feed my front yard and back yard cats (I love in a townhome attached on both sides)..and have done so since we moved into the City in 1998. Last May my elderly neighbor moved out (she was pet friendly and had volunteered at the Humane Society) and new neighbors moved in (no pets). Over the weekend, I was cleaning out my backyard house of straw from winter and the husband neighbor came over and said a cat was pooping in the landing of his basement steps. I said I feed only stray cats and you can't control where they go as you can't control the birds pooping where they want. He said you don't walk in bird poop. But in any case, I said to let me think about the situation as it never happened before. So I went in and got a plastic bag and cleaned up the poop as I didn't want any problems. Funny that noone ever pooped in our landing but ours smells a lot better - not that musty yuck smell. Then that night, in the middle of the night, I realized the one thing that changed was my husband put stone along the only grassy section in the backyard. In the morning, I asked my husband to move the stones as I figured that would probably make it stop if it was indeed a cat/s. Then, the door bell rings and my neighbor wants to speak to my husband. Of course, it was about the cats. My husband said it might not be a cat/s, there are skunks and possums. And just to put some wood out to block the cat/s or animal/s from going down the steps to the landing. Then the neighbor says if it doesn't stop he's going to kill them! Then my husband said he couldn't do that or he'd go to jail -- and my husband said then he didn't have time to argue about it and came in. Now, I am worried about the kitties! I would love to take still somewhat feral Mom cat (tho she lets me pet her) from the front inside but I have way too many cats and doubt she'd appreciate it. If we ever move, she is definitely coming. I am crossing my fingers and hoping this blows over. Thanks for listening, I know I am rather long winded! Anita Every year shelters kill almost 5,000,000 cats, dogs, puppies kittens. Most were beautiful, loving creatures (even feral cats!) that died simply because they did not have a home. Every puppy or kitten born costs a shelter animal its life. Save lives, spay-neuter, support Trap-Neuter-Return (TNR) adopt for life! Download Messenger. Start an i’m conversation. Support a cause. Join Now! http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGWL_MAY07
Re: Virbagen Omega..Lance?
Hi Jane, Tell your vet to contact my specialty clinic about the Interferon Omega. It's been a while, but hopefully Michelle Rose is still there. She was great about compiling an FDA packet for vets that wanted to apply for special dispensation for it. (It has been approved for veterinary use in Europe, but not in the US). I'm sure they would be happy to answer any questions about it's use. Here's the paste from the email I wrote about contacting them: For anyone interested in starting the process of obtaining Feline Interferon, (Virbagen Omega)... My vet's liaison, Michelle Rose, at Veterinary Medical and Surgical Group in Ventura CA (805-339-2290)has made an FDA packet that she will fax out to anyone's vet who is interested in starting the special dispensation process. She says everything they need to know will be in there, and of course they can call her if there are further questions. Since only vets can apply, only they, or their offices should call. If she's not available, have your vet leave their voice and fax numbers on her voice mail. If you have any trouble, email me directly and I'll call her. In the meantime, (or if you decide not to acquire the IO, it's very expensive), you might want to start MeMe on oral Interferon Alpha. IA is used to boost immune response in humans suffering with cancer and does seem to have some benefits for our kits as well. IO is suspected to be more beneficial, (it's derived from feline dna, rather than human), it's hoped that cats won't develop immunity to it's effects. My vet also suspected that the oral might be beneficial for stomatitis as well. It is inexpensive and readily available. There are several different protocols used. Some people use a pulse protocol, (7 days on 7 days off for example). I used to give it whenever my felv kids were exhibiting symptoms. Usually the dose is 1cc daily, but I'd give them up to 3cc when warranted. There is a ton of info about both interferons in our archives. Several list members have had good results with IR. Cindy used it subq, (rather than the recommended IV), to alleviate unexplained fever spikes. From what I understand about it, it's a bacteria that when administered causes the immune system to kick in against it and theoretically battle whatever is causing symptoms. Nina Jane Lyons wrote: I spoke to my homeopathic vet today and she does not know about Virbagen Omega but said she would be very interested in researching it. Lance can you give me any contact info that I can forward to her? Also ...I was reading about Immuno Regulin on the Home Page for this website. Has anyone any experience with it? Thanks for your help, again Jane
Re: OT: Neighbor threatens ferals
Believe me, my first reaction would be to retaliate in kind to this creep, but... Even if the wife did speak english fluently, you're probably better off approaching the husband. Your objective is to make him feel important and it's my guess that he doesn't respect his wife's opinion about things anyway. Men like this usually respond to other men better than women, but he might also like the feeling of power he gets from you appealing to him to indulge your love of animals. The whole thing makes me nauseous just thinking about it. Nina Stray Cat Alliance wrote: Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions! I did get my husband to write down what the neighbor said to him yesterday -- but it is a good idea to write down everything and dates. I will do my best to muster up niceness when I want to scream and talk to the neighbor. The wife doesn't speak very good English so I don't think she'd be a good option. I really can't trap everybody and relocate...and an enclosure wouldn't work where I live now so I am hoping and praying for a positive resolution for all. Thank you again, will keep you posted. Anita Change is good. See what's different about Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out! www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/default.html?locale=en-usocid=RMT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_changegood_0507
Re: Horus Please Add to the CLS :(
Dear Sherry, My condolences to you and Dr. Jen. Please let her know that we feel her pain and admire all she, you and all the folks involved with the shelter do for these sweet angels. Thank you for continuously putting your hearts in the line of fire in order to give them the gifts of comfort, hope and love. Nina Sherry DeHaan wrote: Horus I only got to know through e-mails and pic from Dr. Jen.He had to have one of his eyes removed and was blind in the other.He suffered severe head trauma and lived at Jens house.He slept next to her every night and purred his little heart out to her.(I am crying now as I write this) Dr. Jen became very attached to this beautiful black boy.He lost control of his tongue and was not able to eat properly.She really HATED to admit defeat but had to let him go on the 27th.He was also felv+. I admire ALL that she does for these wonderful babies!! Thank you all for being here for me. Sherry
Re: A little more on the topic of pee
Sigh. I just got through battling with my pee entrenched dryer again. Nothing seems to be helping, I feel your pain sister. Nina Susan Hoffman wrote: This morning when I headed into the kitchen to feed everyone, I removed what I thought was a clean frying pan from the stivetop -- I use the stove as a stagingt area to get all the plates of canned catfood ready -- and put the frying pan upside down in the dish drainer. Someone had peed in the frying pan overnight and I wound up pouring cat pee all over the clean dishes in the drainer. One more morning like this and I'm going to make myself a cup of strong coffee before anyone gets a morsel of food.
Re: A little more on the topic of pee
I at least try to put the coffee on before starting my morning chores. You folks probably remember my Spencer... I had been missing him and made a comment that I even missed his voracious appetite and how he wouldn't allow me to dish anyone's food in peace. Just another example of 'be careful what you wish for' my newest arrival, (Bobby Spencer Clark), has taken up the torch and I am now once again not able to drink a sip of coffee before he has his breakfast. I can't wait until he understands the concept of the never-ending-food-bowl. Nina Susan Hoffman wrote: No. They have me so well trained that I usually feed EVERYONE and will often clean all the boxes first thing, before I pour a cup of coffee for myself. I even clean the bathroom litterbox before stepping into the shower on a workday morning. They have me so well trained that, when I buy groceries, I find myself thinking about who likes the chicken quesadillas and who likes cream cheese filled pastries. I find myself buying and eating food based on their tastes more than my own. When my roommate got a new job recently very close to the house we both independently had the same though -- Oh, good. It's so close that he can come home at lunch time to give Connie her afternoon dose of anti-seizure meds. They have us very well trained. */MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: you mean you don't do that already? On 5/28/07, *Susan Hoffman* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This morning when I headed into the kitchen to feed everyone, I removed what I thought was a clean frying pan from the stivetop -- I use the stove as a stagingt area to get all the plates of canned catfood ready -- and put the frying pan upside down in the dish drainer. Someone had peed in the frying pan overnight and I wound up pouring cat pee all over the clean dishes in the drainer. One more morning like this and I'm going to make myself a cup of strong coffee before anyone gets a morsel of food. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Killing cats who pee on RUGS*****
Well that just wiped the smile from my face. I was not privy to the exchange and have never been to any of the Best Friends forums, but I'm assuming that their motive in removing any chastising responses was in keeping with an overall effort to maintain the site as a safe place to express grief, no matter where the blame of that grief may lie. I am by no means condoning or advocating humans deciding to pts cats because of litterbox avoidance, it turns my stomach, the same as it does yours. I am just pointing out that perhaps the moderators did not feel that this was the proper venue for attempting to educate someone that is suffering from their lack of judgement and compassion. My head too is bloody from banging it against the brick walls of those I do my best to educate. I know how frustrating and emotionally devastating it can be. The only way I can continue to reach out to those that, (in my eyes), visit atrocities on the helpless is that I know sometimes I do get through, sometimes I do make a difference. Even though they sometimes fall short of our expectations, Best Friends is a worthy organization that does make a difference. I hope that when the heat of your disappointment dissipates you are able to remain an ally to the organization. Nina Kelly L wrote: At 12:59 PM 5/28/2007, you wrote: I find this conversation quite timely...You see I have just withdrawn my long time support of Best Friends because of something similar, I have been member and volunteer with them for almost 10 years. they have grown which is good. Well on their prayers and healing forum someone posted asking for prayers and support for their co worker because they were sad at deciding to have their cat PTS ,,killed because she keeps peeing on the carpet,.. I replied that I could not give support to such an act and then other members agreed...our posts were pulled and only the ones comforting this person were left, i received another demeaning letter from the moderator,,, this is not the first incident of that kind, but this one was the final STraw Best Friends does wonderful things, but I am no longer comfortable with may of theri policies at this time, Now I better go mop up pee ...after I get my shoes on of course.(lol) Sigh. I just got through battling with my pee entrenched dryer again. Nothing seems to be helping, I feel your pain sister. Nina Susan Hoffman wrote: This morning when I headed into the kitchen to feed everyone, I removed what I thought was a clean frying pan from the stivetop -- I use the stove as a stagingt area to get all the plates of canned catfood ready -- and put the frying pan upside down in the dish drainer. Someone had peed in the frying pan overnight and I wound up pouring cat pee all over the clean dishes in the drainer. One more morning like this and I'm going to make myself a cup of strong coffee before anyone gets a morsel of food. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/821 - Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.0/821 - Release Date: 5/27/2007 3:05 PM
Re: To Cassandra Re: Kisa
My dear Cassandra, Please take a look at the archives about my Spencer. When we got to the point that you are now, I decided to stop trying to force feed and medicate beyond his daily dex shot and in his case, occasional nose drops to help his congestion and breathing. I don't know if the dex shots would help Kisa the way they did Spence, but for him, it gave us another month of quality life and love together. He perked up almost immediately and while I still had to have a vet come to the house to help him cross, I wouldn't have given up that last month with him for anything. It gave us time to say goodbye and helped ease the transition for both of us. I'm so sorry you guys are suffering so, you have my sympathy and understanding. There is nothing worse than watching a loved one suffer and wishing that you had the power to change things. Acceptance is always difficult. Sometimes even with all the intervention money can buy, even with access to a specialist, even if you were inclined to continue with force feedings, medications and subq fluids, it doesn't change the sad outcome and we end up regretting the intervention that did nothing but make them miserable for the time they had left. There are times when we have to just let go of the struggle to control outcomes and instead BE with them, love them and concentrate on making them as comfortable as possible. Sometimes we are left with no other alternatives than to accept and respect their journey. The folks on the list are urging you to do what they think is best. As well intentioned as the advice you are getting is, it's not up to us. You are there, you know your limitations and what may or may not be possible. It is obvious how much you love her and how difficult this last 3 months have been for you. I'm sending you and Kisa love and strength, listen to her, together you'll decide what to do. Nina C J wrote: Kisa isn't doing very well so far.Over the last week, she's been getting more lethargic day by day. And now she's at the point where all she does is hide/sleep. When we bring her out of her hiding spot, she vomits almost immediately. The Chloropromazine didn't help the vomiting, so I stopped giving it. The vomiting makes the syringe feeding all the more difficult because if we feed her every four-five hours, she vomits up a fair bit of the prior feeding. I'm going to have to feed her a couple of times a day, and leave it at that. I think food may be the least of her worries right now. She's probably getting dehydrated from all the vomiting, though I don't know how to tell that for sure. Her third eyelid is very noticeable now. She shows very little interest in drinking, mainly just sticks her paws in the water and sniffs it. Plus, even though i've been syringe feeding her since wednesday, I seriously doubt she's pooped at all. I'm not sure where the food is going after it goes in. She's not very responsive either, anymore. She will purr a bit when I pet her, but that's about it. I've been trying to find an oncologist, but i'm not sure she's even strong enough to handle an anesthetic and a liver biopsy, or feeding tube insertion anymore. Considering the vet clinics i've called don't know of an oncologist, i'm doubting I can find one anywhere nearby. This is just so frustrating, but I guess I need to remember that even in people, once cancer gets into the liver, there's usually not much more that can be done. I know someone right now who has cancer, and since the cancer went into her liver, the doctors have stopped aggressive treatment. She has only painkillers and 6 months to live. Everytime I think of how full of life and mischief Kisa was only a week ago, I begin a new batch of tears. She was absolutely fearless, I could vacuum her off, nothing would scare her. Everytime I had an empty box or bag out, she would be in it. She carried a little stuffed panda around all the time, and would proudly announce she had something special in her mouth. No matter where I hid that panda, she would find it. She could break into anything, including the closets. She's always been so loving and gentle too. I could pet her belly, the only cat that would let me do that. And when she played, she would be so gentle when chewing on your fingers, I always thought she would make the perfect kitty for a child to play with. It's so depressing to lose the special kitties, the ones that can cheer you up after a long day at work. It's going to take me a long time to get over the last 3 months, going through this process 3 times. And I know at any time, Tomi could get sick again. I'm sorry for being so long-winded, I just can't seem to focus on anything else other than my kitties these days. Cassandra - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:00 PM Subject: To Cassandra Re
Re: Thinking of Caroline
Kelley, I'm sorry to hear about Caroline. Prayers that she responds to the abx and starts feeling better very soon. Your description of symptoms and possible causes sound eerily like what Michelle's Lucy went through. I know you've had a lot of losses lately, it's always a chilling thought to think that in trying to help, we've exposed others to potential illness. Is Caroline felv+? Hang in there sweetie and remember that you have given the forgotten angels in your care the opportunity at life, love and comfort. All we can do is all we can do. Please let us know how she is doing, Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: She is still in the emergency clinic and will be there til Tuesday morning...they started her on clin. She is also on Baytril. Don't think she is on Doxy. On 5/27/07, dede hicken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if it causes seizures, but my Spud was treated for it. His HCT was down to 12. They didn't hold out much hope. It took a lot of intensive care feeding etc. But, he did the entire 3 wk run with clin. and doxy. His HCT is now up to 22...not normal, but he is hanging in there. God bless, Dede --- Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does toxo usually cause seizures??? On 5/27/07, Diane Rosenfeldt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kelly, I'm so sorry Caroline isn't doing well. Best vibes that it's the toxo and nothing worse. Hugs to both of you. Diane R. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelley Saveika Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2007 9:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Thinking of Caroline I guess the best option is to hope and pray it is toxioplasmosis. Brain cancer and dry FIP aren't treatable. I told them to go ahead and start her on the antibiotic to treat toxioplasmosis... Kelley On 5/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She is in my thoughts and prayers! Hope the Vet is able to find out the cause of this. Take care of yourself! Terrie Mohr-Forker TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Donations accepted at: https://www.paypal.com/ http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html http://www.felineleukemia.org/ http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html http://www.petloss.com/ See what's free at AOL.com. -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Gandalf! http://www.firstgiving.com/gandalfkitty I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Gandalf! http://www.firstgiving.com/gandalfkitty I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo! When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God Mosiah 2:17 Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
Re: new diagnosis
Hello Jane and welcome. Every one of us on this list has lived through the fear and confusion you are facing. This list has been a haven for me and so many others, I'm so very glad you've found us. It sounds like you have a wonderful vet and that MeMe, (very cute name, I can just picture how she came to name herself that), is in loving and capable hands. You are both blessed to have found each other. I'm praying that she recovers from her symptoms and that you have many years together. Take a look at our archives using key words to search for advice on her symptoms. Ask as many questions on specifics as you like and feel free to vent, cry or just share how special she is. Give that little angel a head butt from me. Nina Jane Lyons wrote: Hello everyone I just joined this group as I have just had two FeLV positive test results on my year old kitten. I adopted her from a cat shelter two months ago with many health issues (upper respiratory, diarrhea giardia, stomatits). I was told that she was FeLV negative and figured I could deal with all of the above because they were not life threatening and once I got her out of the shelter 'colony' and to our vets, that she would get well. She didn't. On Friday I took her to my homeopathic vet who insisted that she be tested again for FeLV, and the test came back positive and the second test result which I got on Saturday was also positive. Needless to say I am devastated. Both of the vets that I use are being supportive and hopeful. When I adopted a positive kitten 20 years ago I was told that she had to be put down because she would infect my other cat. This is not the case now. We have two Scotties and had recently lost a 19 year old cat, and a 21 year old the year before. This cat, MeMe, is an absolute love. My homeopath put her on a probiotic that she is excited about FortiFlora, and liquid DMG as well as help in weaning her to Archetype food as she is addicted to Fancy Feast which my vet calls 'kitty crack'. I have been overwhelmed with the amount of information I am finding on the Web. Some of it seems very optimistic, some, bordering on fantasy. I joined this group hoping to share information with real people who are living and coping with this disease. I keep re-reading the Home page on this site which states that Feline Leukemia is not a death sentence. I would appreciate any information which could be helpful to MeMe. Thank you Jane
Re: OT- Cat bite, what do i do
It has been explained to me that the danger with cat bites comes when those sharp little canines deliver bacteria deep under the skin, the surface wound closes up and the infection has a nice warm safe place to fester. From what you describe, it sounds like the wound isn't very deep, you probably don't have anything to worry about if you hit it with peroxide right afterwards. The idea behind the warm salt water soak is to keep the wound from closing. Someone with way more experience than her fare share with cat bites has told me, if it's red, don't worry too much, if it's swollen, don't worry to much, if it's hot, red and swollen, get yourself to the hospital. It's good advice to keep yourself utd on your tetanus shot too. Let us know if your finger falls off. Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: I was trying to put Nod in his carrier for his dental today and apparently he didn't want to go. It isn't a terrible bite, but it did break the skin. He is current on his rabies. Do I wait and hope it doesn't become infected?
Re: Update on Kisa
Did you ask your vet about dex shots? If he is ready to give up on Kisa and you are not, find yourself another vet. Nina C J wrote: Thank you all for your suggestions. I went to the vet today and got some injectable chloropromazine. They said it should help with the vomiting, though it is also a sedative. Kisa still vomited this evening, about 3 hours after a syringe feeding, but hopefully they drug just needs more time to work. The vet got back some blood test results, and says that it looks like cancer. They can't know for sure without a biopsy, but they don't suggest doing that. So really i'm left with not really knowing for sure what is going on. They won't do chemo without a definite diagnosis for cancer. I'm not sure if I could afford that anyway...they didn't say exactly how much it would cost, but said it wouldn't be a good idea to spend thousands on FeLV+ cat with a poor prognosis. Kisa is absolutely hating the syringe feedings. She's all of 6-7 pounds and it takes both my husband and I to hold her. For a weak kitty she sure can put up a fight. By the time we're done, she's got food all over herself, and us. I don't think she's going blind, because she takes off like a shot after the feeding. We allow her into our bedroom at night now...our bedroom is reserved for sick kitties only. She really seemed to enjoy that, and even crawled under the covers and curled up to me purring. I haven't seen her that happy in awhile. But this mornign at 5:30 am, I woke up to a huge puddle of orange pee (filled with Bilirubin) right between us. She didn't even try to use the litter box or even squat to pee. Well we were up after that trying to wash some of the bedding before going to work. It sure has been a long haul here, I can only hope somehow it will work out. Cassandra
Re: Update on Kisa
I can completely understand how overwhelmed and disheartened you must feel right now Cassandra. You need to shake that off if you can. Concentrate instead on keeping your spirits up and doing everything possible to help Kisa feel more comfortable and regain her health. Who knows why these things seem to come out of nowhere and heap themselves one on top of the other. I too had years of healthy no problem animals and then boom! One after the other started falling ill to things I'd never even heard of before. Instead of wondering 'why', or even wondering 'why now', be thankful for all those wonderful years of blissful ignorance. One obstacle at a time, one day at a time. Celebrate every little success and esp celebrate every moment you have with your loved ones. You can do this, you can and you will for Kisa's sake. Talk to your vet about injectable steroids and transdermal appetite stimulants. If Kisa is vomiting, then she would probably benefit from some sort of anti-nausea med as well. Get her meds in forms that don't have to be administered by mouth to lessen the stress and possibility of them not staying down. I don't know if it's appropriate, but you might want to ask your vet about different steroids like dex or depro. Depro is longer acting and dex is fast acting. It was nothing short of amazing how much better my Spencer felt, (and ate), after starting small dose daily dex shots subq at home. Are you giving Kisa subq fluids at home? Sometimes fluids can make them feel better all by themselves. If she starts feeling better, she's liable to start eating better. Has your vet consulted with or have you brought Kisa to an oncologist? I get it about the money factor too. Sometimes all we can do does not include the heavy financial costs involved with specialists. It sucks, but that's the way it is sometimes. Just do the best you can with the resources you've got. Ask trusted vets to use their intuition and to suggest, based on their experience, the most cost effective treatment plans. Please keep us informed, we're all pulling for you guys, Nina C J wrote: Well, after going to the vet today, it's not looking good for Kisa. She has elevated bilirubin in her blood/urine, and elevated number of lymphocytes. Therefore they believe she has a liver disease, possibly lymphosarcoma. The only way they can tell for sure what the problem is with her liver is to do a biopsy which means surgery.They didn't suggest doing this though because of the FeLV and her immune system being compromised. They gave me prednisone and baytril for her, though i'm really not sure how she'll handle keeping those down when she is vomiting so easily. They're hoping the steroid will make her feel a little better and maybe regain some appetite. I've really got to try and get her to eat something, she hasn't eaten since Saturday night now. I don't understand why this is all happening at once. First I watched Tomi get sicker and sicker for nearly 2 months. As soon as he started getting better, Koda got sick with kidney and liver failure, and died. Now, barely a week later Kisa goes from being a super healthy and active cat to death's door. I haven't even had enough time to get used to Koda being gone, now its another crisis situation. This is all after having nothing but healthy, happy, and active cats for 12 years. I used to think how awful it would be if my house burned down while I was away and my 5 cats were inside. What is happening now is almost worse than that since it is so prolonged and i'm beginning to wonder if something I am doing is causing all this (like feeding raw food). I've always kept my cats indoors because I didn't want them to get run over by a car, etcbut they seem to be no safer indoors. Sorry for venting on you all, its just really starting to affect me, both emotionally and financially. Cassandra
Re: Great Snake evening excitement
Well, I was chuckling through your story until I got to the part about the cat bite already starting to swell. Anytime a bite is bad enough to send me to the hospital the story I tell is always about a stray, (not feral), just a scared little kitty that I tried to yank by the tail out from under a car. No, I have never seen her before, (I make up an elaborate description, she had a mustache like Hitler, or some such nonsense), and she ran like a bolt after she bit me. I live in CA too and they always suggest a series of rabbies shots and I always refuse them. No one can make you take the treatments, at least no one has ever tried to force them on me. Bruce was the last one to get bit and he refused to go to the doctor when it began to swell. By the time I was ready to knock him unconscious to get him there, (the next day), he needed the injectable Augmentin, (a series of them for several weeks). The doctor kept shaking his head and talking about admitting him to the hospital for iv antibiotics, but he was able to fight off the infection with mega doses of oral and the injectables. You can order Augmentin wo a script from: http://www.1drugstore-online.com/showprice.asp?name=Augmentinbysearch=okGo.x=9Go.y=6 http://www.1drugstore-online.com/showprice.asp?name=Augmentinbysearch=okGo.x=9Go.y=6 Be sure and let us know how you are doing. I hope that grateful little garter snake figures out a way to avoid the hawks and you haven't set back your feral's socialization too much. Let's hope that snake lets his friends know that your house is less safe than the bushes. Next time tell your assistant to bring a net with her along with the boots and rake. Nina Kelly L wrote: Ok..So I am alone and head into the bedroom to see several cats curiously looking under the dresser. this can mean, a toad, a bird, a gopher or snake,,,I have already removed a few garter snakes from the cats this year,,, i got down on my hand and knees,,,shooing the cats away and heard a very irritated snake under the dresser. i could not tell if it was a gopher snake or a rattle snake,,,So now what,,there are 13 cats in there and i tried to get them out with out scaring them under the dresser,,favorite hiding place,,I did not want to leave as i needed to keep track of the snake, I tossed a few cats in the bathroom,,slammed the door,,,got one into the closet and scared a few into my cat inclosure and locked them out, that left only 4 more, I called Ashley, my cat helper to come give me a hand,,She arrived a few moments later,,,boots,,,rake and pail,,,but i still needed to get one feral out of the room,,,Well I grabbed her by the scuff and was almost out the door but she turned and really got me good, Several very deep bites but I got her out, Well we got the snake out and once in the light it looked more like a poor little scared gopher snake so we took him out to the vineyards to release him,,, I have pictures if anyone wants to see him,,, the moral of the story is ..well there may not be one,,find a snake in your room and go the emergency room with a cat bite!! What is strange is I have a pair of Red Tail hawks nesting in my palm tree and eating on the telephone pole out side my window,,,each day they seem to come home dangling a snake and i was just commenting that all my snakes will disappear,,,hmmm Kelly
Re: Great Snake evening excitement
We are Women alright: Crazy Cat Women! I was talking with Hideyo yesterday about all we do above and beyond. Do you remember the little adopted kitty that went missing from the new adopter's house the first night? Well Hideyo has finally spotted her outside the lady's house where they've been leaving food out. She had to stake the place out and Mattie didn't show up until 1am. When I suggested that perhaps it would be easier for the new mom to fight her sleep and keep watch for Mattie, Hideyo told me that she didn't think the woman would be willing to do that. I said, why not? I certainly would. Hideyo didn't miss a beat when she told me very matter-of-factly, Yes, but you're crazy. This coming from one of the craziest cat ladies I know. It really cracked me up. Nina Kelly L wrote: At 07:00 AM 5/22/2007, you wrote: Already started the Augmentin last night..it is humorous. the swelling is from soft tissue damage as opposed to infection..I always used to ask my self what I would do if there were a rattle snake challenging my cats. Well I now know,,My cats and the snake do come first, it was a cute little gopher snake, i find frequent garter snakes in the house and just put them in the front bushes away from the cat, I have to laugh at myself as I do finally have a hair appointment at 12 and need to work the ER visit around that...I do have a rabies certificate for another cat so I am cool with that part,. Boy are we women or what. Kelly
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee - and still more pee
I'm thinking of contacting the fire department to see if I can lease one of those airplanes that dump water/chemicals on fires. I could fill the hold with anti-stink and have them dump it on my house. My sister has all of two cats and one of them climbed on her table yesterday and while Connie watched in horror. squatted and peed in her very expensive, (well previously expensive) purse. Of course this is a rescue kitty that I begged her to adopt from me. She loves Sammy, he's a sweet, sweet boy that cuddles under the covers with her at night, but she's been asking me what to do about this and I'm running out of ideas. This is the third time he's done his inappropriate urinating in the last couple of months. The first time was in one of those cardboard scratching boxes on the floor, the second was in my dad's backpack while he was visiting, and now the purse that Tux treats like his mother, (Tux has been known to seek out this purse and rub and nurse on it). She's already taken Sam to the vet for a check up and urinalysis; he's healthy as can be. She's added additional litter boxes. That seemed to help for a little while and he uses them most of the time. The two cats get along for the most part, but Sammy is older and they do sometimes scuffle when Tux becomes too energetic. (You may remember Tux as the kitty that gave us all a scare when he went missing for 3 days and ended up being locked in the attached garage the entire time). I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the dynamic between the two cats, (Sam is Connie's cat and Tux is more bonded to her son Justin), or at least some sort of territorial/jealousy thing. I suggested keeping Sam confined to her bedroom for a couple of days to see if he appreciates the alone time, and a litter box that is not contaminated with Tux smells. I thought she could try that at least when she's not home, but she doesn't want to segregate Sam. Sam used to be an indoor/outdoor cat that never used litter in the house. I'm wondering if the problems would stop if he had access to the outside, but Connie lives in coyote country. I suggested a trip to Home Depot to construct an attached outdoor habitat, but she thinks that's extreme. Ha! She don't know extreme! Anyone have any suggestions? N MaryChristine wrote: we really have to get these cats of ours jobs--they have WAY too much time on their paws to sit around and figure these things out. and yes, mine have managed to baptize the area in front of the dryer, as well. i just pour the anti-stink straight on the floor there sigh. On 5/21/07, *Nina* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the sympathy. The dryer is such an ingenuous touch. How clever this particular little fiend is, (I don't know which of my clan is the culprit). Not only does the dryer bake in the fragrance, but it is then carried about all over the house, (not to mention everywhere I might travel). It's so darn efficient of them! All the fabric throws covering the furniture are now pre-marked :-) . Nina elizabeth trent wrote: Oh no! Nina, you have all my sympathy. Ode de kitty toilette is definitely not the nicest fragrance - especially for warm weather. Have you tried spraying with 'Urine Gone'? That helps me a lot with Shakiti (aka - magic marker) in the house. I saw some a CVS last week. You can order it online too. I am so sorry! elizabeth -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee - and still more pee
Ha! I told her that! I even have another tuxedo cat that would fit in nicely with her color scheme, (both Tux and Sam are tuxies). Connie's not going for it though. I think it's a great idea. I remember reading somewhere that the perfect number for cat dynamics is something like 5 or 6 cats. I'm perfectly happy to accommodate her with meeting that quota, but she's hesitant for some reason :-) . N Susan Hoffman wrote: Throw in a third cat? That will alter the dynamic. */Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I'm thinking of contacting the fire department to see if I can lease one of those airplanes that dump water/chemicals on fires. I could fill the hold with anti-stink and have them dump it on my house. My sister has all of two cats and one of them climbed on her table yesterday and while Connie watched in horror. squatted and peed in her very expensive, (well previously expensive) purse. Of course this is a rescue kitty that I begged her to adopt from me. She loves Sammy, he's a sweet, sweet boy that cuddles under the covers with her at night, but she's been asking me what to do about this and I'm running out of ideas. This is the third time he's done his inappropriate urinating in the last couple of months. The first time was in one of those cardboard scratching boxes on the floor, the second was in my dad's backpack while he was visiting, and now the purse that Tux treats like his mother, (Tux has been known to seek out this purse and rub and nurse on it). She's already taken Sam to the vet for a check up and urinalysis; he's healthy as can be. She's added additional litter boxes. That seemed to help for a little while and he uses them most of the time. The two cats get along for the most part, but Sammy is older and they do sometimes scuffle when Tux becomes too energetic. (You may remember Tux as the kitty that gave us all a scare when he went missing for 3 days and ended up being locked in the attached garage the entire time). I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the dynamic between the two cats, (Sam is Connie's cat and Tux is more bonded to her son Justin), or at least some sort of territorial/jealousy thing. I suggested keeping Sam confined to her bedroom for a couple of days to see if he appreciates the alone time, and a litter box that is not contaminated with Tux smells. I thought she could try that at least when she's not home, but she doesn't want to segregate Sam. Sam used to be an indoor/outdoor cat that never used litter in the house. I'm wondering if the problems would stop if he had access to the outside, but Connie lives in coyote country. I suggested a trip to Home Depot to construct an attached outdoor habitat, but she thinks that's extreme. Ha! She don't know extreme! Anyone have any suggestions? N
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee - and still more pee
Yea, I remember 5 fondly. I also remember thinking how crazy it was to have so many cats. I guess there's crazy and then there's CRAZY. N MaryChristine wrote: i always liked five.. tho i can barely remember that far back. On 5/22/07, *Nina* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ha! I told her that! I even have another tuxedo cat that would fit in nicely with her color scheme, (both Tux and Sam are tuxies). Connie's not going for it though. I think it's a great idea. I remember reading somewhere that the perfect number for cat dynamics is something like 5 or 6 cats. I'm perfectly happy to accommodate her with meeting that quota, but she's hesitant for some reason :-) . N Susan Hoffman wrote: Throw in a third cat? That will alter the dynamic.
ot - Ever ubiquitous pee
Remember the thread where everyone was trying to figure out where the urine odor was coming from? (Kelley, I'm sure you do). Well, someone has contaminated my dryer. I'm not sure how they did it. I'm assuming they backed up, aimed and fired into the crevices around the opening of the door, but I guess it could be in the air filter. All I know is that I've scrubbed and sprayed and scrubbed some more. Every time I think it's safe to dry a load of clothes they come out of the dryer smelling not springtime fresh, but of fresh kitty. Whoever marked the dryer must be thrilled, everything smells of their scent now. Any suggestions? Do I have to get a new dryer and house it behind chain link? Nina
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee
My sister's cat peed in my dad's napsack the night before he was to board a plane with it. Ah the delights of being owned by cats. Kelly, At least at Best Friends you were among compatriots who would understand. I bet if you had taken a look around you, you would have caught several others in the group sneaking a sniff at their own t-shirts! Kelley Saveika wrote: My cats peed in my purse once. Sigh. I had to buy another purse. On 5/21/07, Kelly L [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 08:45 AM 5/21/2007, you wrote: I was at BEST FRIENDS last week for the workshop, Sitting in one of the dog areas listening to a talk on detecting stress in dogs etc,,Well as I leaned forward I got that strange familar whiffI kept hoping it was coming for elsewhere,, No chanceMy shirt had that familiar yellow patch that i did not see as i got dressed in the hotel that morning, A trip to the bathroom and a wet shirt for the next few hours I always carry spare shoes and clothes in my car,,, Kelly
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee
Thanks for the sympathy. The dryer is such an ingenuous touch. How clever this particular little fiend is, (I don't know which of my clan is the culprit). Not only does the dryer bake in the fragrance, but it is then carried about all over the house, (not to mention everywhere I might travel). It's so darn efficient of them! All the fabric throws covering the furniture are now pre-marked :-) . Nina elizabeth trent wrote: Oh no! Nina, you have all my sympathy. Ode de kitty toilette is definitely not the nicest fragrance - especially for warm weather. Have you tried spraying with 'Urine Gone'? That helps me a lot with Shakiti (aka - magic marker) in the house. I saw some a CVS last week. You can order it online too. I am so sorry! elizabeth
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee
I wonder if there have been any studies conducted on deterioration effects of the olfactory senses from living with too many cats. My sniffer isn't what it used to be either. Perhaps it's a blessing in disguise, but it does little for our social lives. I've had people in check out lines ask me about my pets. I'll quick sniff at my clothing but so far it's been more the tell tale dog and cat hair and not problem odors. I have little chance of getting away with a spontaneous murder. I carry way too much traceable dna with me wherever I go. N Kelley Saveika wrote: At least you can smell it. I can't smell it anymore:(
Re: ot - Ever ubiquitous pee
From watching crime dramas on tv, I've learned that coffee grounds are used to disguise the scent from drug sniffing dogs. Excuse me while I go throw a pound of coffee in my dryer :-) . Taylor Scobie Humphrey wrote: Something just dawned on me. You know how Nordie's has those little containers of coffee beans to sniff between testing perfumes? I used to manage a coffee store and I always smelled like fresh coffee. People in check-out lines would ask me what the wonderful coffee was in my basket--and there was none! Maybe little sachets of ground coffee in our pockets would work. !? Taylor Scobie Humphrey [EMAIL PROTECTED] On May 21, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Nina wrote: I wonder if there have been any studies conducted on deterioration effects of the olfactory senses from living with too many cats. My sniffer isn't what it used to be either. Perhaps it's a blessing in disguise, but it does little for our social lives. I've had people in check out lines ask me about my pets. I'll quick sniff at my clothing but so far it's been more the tell tale dog and cat hair and not problem odors. I have little chance of getting away with a spontaneous murder. I carry way too much traceable dna with me wherever I go. N Kelley Saveika wrote: At least you can smell it. I can't smell it anymore:(
Re: Anyone know how much it is for anal sac removal?
Hey Wendy, My dog has anal impaction problems. It can literally be a pain in the a** for both of us. I can't imagine taking him into the vet everytime they need to be expressed. I have found that if I do it before he starts chewing at himself, things go easier for us. The anal glands can become inflamed/infected and be very painful to deal with if you wait too long. I do it regularly, (2x monthly). I think it's a very good idea for you to have your vet watch and talk you through it the first time at least. I looked into the surgery when I first found out Vladdy had this trouble, and decided against it because my research showed that it was a very delicate procedure and can leave them worse off than before. I wouldn't be looking for a bargain when it comes to something like this. If you decide to do the surgery look for someone that has a lot of experience no matter what they charge. It could end up costing you more in $ and misery if you don't. Nina wendy wrote: Hey Marylyn, I'm taking her in this afternoon to have them expressed. I thought maybe I could do it after watching the vet do it a couple of times; it didn't look like rocket science. Yesterday, I got a cot for my finger, some vaseline, and took her in the bathroom. Put her in my arms like a baby, poked around a little bit, but mechanically it just didn't look like things would fit, so I opted not to try for fear of hurting her. I am going to ask the vet if he'll show me how to do it for future reference. He doesn't do the surgery and didn't know anyone who does around here, but I'm going to look into it further. :) Wendy --- Marylyn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you tried having them expressed every (very) few weeks and seeing if they will clear up on their own? You can do this yourself. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 11:02 PM Subject: OT: Anyone know how much it is for anal sac removal? Hey guys, I think I might have to have my furbaby, Pepper's, anal sacs removed. Hers are impacted again for the third time in a year and it's at least a hundred bucks everytime this happens. Does anyone know how much it might cost? I'm scared to find out! Thanks, Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/
Re: RE: FIV Testing...
Chris, I am so hoping that you can rescue this kitten. For the kitten's sake of course, but also to help educate this vet's office. They need to see that an fiv test in such a little baby is not indicative of having the disease. Hell, an fiv test in a cat that truly has fiv is not a death sentence! From all I've learned, from living with an fiv boy and hearing about so so many others, it's nothing to be afraid of at all. Please let us know what happens to this little angel. You have an opportunity to educate these people and that little darling is staking her life on it. (Sorry about the pressure). Where is she? Nina Chris wrote: Many many thanks... I will go dig the article out and send it along... /Christiane Biagi/ /914-632-4672/ /[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ /Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)/ /www.findkpets.org http://www.findkpets.org/ /Join Us Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals/ -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *MaryChristine *Sent:* Friday, May 18, 2007 12:50 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: FIV Testing... there is virtually no such thing as a positive kitten--unlike the FeLV virus, kittens will test positive for FIV based on MOM'S antibodies, and will continue to test positive until at LEAST six months old when mom's antibodies pass from their systems. can someone please go read one of the articles at FELV+, FIV+, FIP http://ucat.us/FELVFIVFIP.html and send the appropriate one? i do not have the time to do so -- or do a web search for Maternal Antibodies in FIV. every vet should KNOW this. MC On 5/18/07, *Kelly L* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:37 AM 5/18/2007, you wrote: Tell them that Vets no longer put down FIV positive cats. Most of us mix our pos and neg catsClose to impossible to catch...the kitten may not be positive, You need to get a place for this baby ASAP.. Kelly A bit off topic but I know folks here know so much about FIV FELV.. Someone sent me a post about a 7 week old F tortie mix sitting at a vet office in Baton Rouge, LA who is supposed to be put down tonight or tomorrow because she tests pos for FIV... Apparently the vet the staff are clutching at doing this---my question is · Should I ask what test was doneis it same setup as for FELV (Elissa then confirming IFA) · Isn't it early to determine whether cat is really FIV pos? I'm afraid I can't provide a home for this little one but maybe a little info could prolong her life until someone is found... /Christiane Biagi// 914-632-4672 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] / /Katrina Animal Reunion Team (KART)// www.findkpets.org http://www.findkpets.org / /Join Us Help Reunite Katrina-displaced Families with their Animals// / No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.3/809 - Release Date: 5/17/2007 5:18 PM -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Charlie Brown and little Sister Oscar to CLS
Sheila, It's probably impossible to think of your two Angels as a success story right now, but imagine the hope and promise they bring to so many reading about what a relatively long life they had. I know you must be feeling so lonely right now, but maybe it brings you a little bit of comfort to know that Oscar and Charlie aren't. How special is that that they have each other still? They're like old married couples that follow each other to the other side. Poor mommy is the one left suffering in their absence. I'm praying that they find a way to send you a sign that they are safe and happy on the other side and indeed are never far away from you. From just this short post about them, it's obvious that the three of you had such a special bond. Keep listening for their voices and their gestures of love, they will come to you, I'm sure of it. Hugs to you and all those that Charlie and Oscar left behind, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please add Charlie to CLS list he passed Sunday night and today we had to pts his little sister Oscar (she chose that name). She has been small and delicate all her life. She stopped eating Sunday and was in a lot of pain from kidney failure. I think she really wanted to go with Charlie. They were both felv+. Charlie was 15 and Oscar was 12 years old. My heart is breaking, I miss them so much. It seems that in my house they leave in two's. I know they are together and know longer sick so I will try to remember only the good days. Give your babies extra love tonight. Sheila See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503.
Re: OT -- just for laughs :0)
Very cute. Thanks it did make me laugh. N elizabeth trent wrote: http://www.glumbert.com/media/catvacuum elizabeth
Re: Please add Albert to the CLS
Kerry, It's so hard to say goodbye. There are so many things about Albert that will help you deal with his loss after you have time to heal. He lived to a ripe old age; he left the earth in exactly the way, at least I, would want to, (in relatively good health until the end; with time to say goodbye and then quickly cross); you did right by him your entire life together, (even if his vet visit was stressful on his heart, you would have a harder time dealing with his passing if you hadn't sought medical help); the two of you spent so much quality time together, there could be no doubt that he was respected and loved. All these things will probably bring you comfort when you are ready. Right now, I know you are not ready. Right now, I know the sorrow of losing his warm presence is an open wound. It's so hard to say goodbye. Please take care of yourself, your other babies need you, you are a blessing to us and all those you care for. Remember all the good you do and remember that even if you don't fully realize the influence you have on so many others, your pain and sacrifice make a difference and we are grateful. Nina Kerry Roach wrote: Hi all, I know I haven't been here in awhile, but I always come back as you guys are the most understanding and compassionate people that I have ever met.. I lost Albert today, May 15 a few minutes before 4pm. He went into sudden cardiac failure. He hadn't been sick until yesterday as he started showing some signs of maybe a urinary tract infection which turned out to be his heart..probably due to some long standing hyper-t. He was felv-. We added his sister, Alberta to CLS back in Jan. I just wanted him there with her. I also lost Striper (hit by a car) on April 16. So it hasn't been a good year so far. To those of you that remember Inky, he is now 20yrs and 9 months. Fingers crossed he keeps doing well. Albert had just turned 16 on April 12. Thank you all as always for listening and caring.. You and your kitties are always in our prayers, Kerry, Inky, and Angel's Bandy, Buster, Lil Rascal, Snoopy, Alberta, Striper, and Albert 2 feral angel's Tom Cat and Fuzzy Boy Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49938/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49937/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: New here with Felv+ cat
Hi Tia, Thank you for rescuing Mr. Biggles. It's fabulous that he's so healthy under the circumstances. Try not to worry too much about confining him right now. Poor baby is used to being in a cage and he's better off being acclimated to his new surroundings slowly so he can feel as safe as possible. You do rescue, so you probably know lots and lots about helping him feel comfortable while you foster him. Speaking of fostering... You are also probably aware of how difficult it can be to place a felv pos cat. I'm sure you took this into consideration before you sprung Mr. Biggles from his rabbit hutch jail. Stress on a pos cat is one of the worst things for triggering health problems. Do take things slowly and boost his immune system with supplements and things like interferon, (esp while he's settling in). Many on the list mix negs and pos together and few of us have had problems because of it. If you do a search on the word mix or mixing you should come up with tons of testimonials about it. Since you probably have other fosters you have to take the danger of exposure to them seriously. Based on experience and the experience of other list members, it is obviously harder to transmit to healthy inoculated cats than generally thought, but it's a personal decision that we have to make with our eyes wide open to the possible ramifications. Let us hear more about you, Mr. Biggles and the rest of your charges. Welcome to the group! Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, my name is Brenda and this is my first post. I have a small cat rescue and always reading everything I can about cats. I just rescued a felv positive male cat who has been kept in a rabbit cage for the last year and a half. He is such a sweetheart! A real lover boy. I heard he was in that cage and got word to the owner that I would find him a home. He was retested and it was positive again. I now have him in the sunroom, which I usually keep for the kittens. He has it all to himself. He is so lonely. I need to find a home for him. He loves people but I've never had him around other cats so I'm not sure how that would go. I was given the link to this board from someone on the handicapped pet forum. I am looking for updated info on felv positive cats. Do any of you let yours mingle with your other cats? I have not so far as I wouldn't want to put the others in danger. Mr. Biggles is very healthy and needs to lose a few pounds from lack of exercise. Any help, links, advice, anything would be appreciated. TIA, Brenda *~~Brenda~~* See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503.
Re: Trinket, Muffin, and Pookie
Oh Gloria, it's terrible that after doing all you could to find a better life for Pookie and Muffin that they had to pass that way. Did they go together? So sad. How awful for their new caretakers too. At least they are together. I do so hope it's true that on some level they had a choice about the way things unfolded. Maybe they'll remain together and they are shopping for new bodies and homes, maybe they were anxious to begin their lives anew, this time in someone's loving home where they will be protected and cherished. Maybe my faith in something larger, some plan that we know nothing about is a fairy tale, but it does sometimes bring me comfort to imagine that the bigger picture is much more pleasant than the fragments we are privy to. Thank you for all you did for Trinket too. You are such a hero to these guys Gloria, and to me. Much love and sympathy, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: */Gloria,/* */I'm sorry for your recent losses. As they knew you were trying to help them./* */Now they are free at the Rainbow Bridge with all the others that have gone there./* */Thank you and bless you!/* *//* */By the way I love the names./* */Will consider them for my future rescues./* */Terrie Mohr-Forker TAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTS SIAMESE COLLIE RESCUE Donations accepted at: https://www.paypal.com//**/ http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescue http://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.html http://www.felineleukemia.org/ http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.html http://www.petloss.com/ /* See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503.
Re: topic change:- fleas
The oil is also used as a flea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flea repellant for pets. This latter usage is the origin of the plant's Latin species name, the flea being /Pulex irritans/. However the distantly related American Pennyroyal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Pennyroyal or /Hedeoma pulegioides/ is the source of much of what is called /*pennyroyal oil*/. Love that Google! N MaryChristine wrote: plant pennyroyal outside in your yards. it's an herb, and it grows like, well, a weed while pennyroyal OIL itself can be toxic in high concentration, as was mentioned before, it's been used as part of flea repellant preparations for years. back before they made the topical flea products, during a really bad flea summer, friends noticed that their household had NONE while everyone they knew were just infested. and they had a dog that was in and out they had a rock garden, and they'd planted pennyroyal in that. being the weedy little thing that it is, it basically took over the yard--so everytime Dag (yes, that was her name) was racing around in the yard, she was busily repelling fleas -- by the time she came in, no visitors came in with her. my friends were of the sort who did a lot out in their yard--gardening, having big parties, etc--and they didn't bring the little buggies in with them, either. worth a try, and smells nice, too.
Re: Update on Tomi, and my older kitty, Koda
Me too Cassandra. It's so uplifting that Tomi made it through his crash and then so disheartening now that Koda is ailing. I understand completely the feeling of 'when will things get back to normal'? So many of us on the list have lived through those times. It will happen though. Hold on, keep doing the best you can do and know that nothing stays the same. It's the ebb and tide balance of life. Things will be brighter again one day soon. We're here for you, Nina Sherry DeHaan wrote: Cassandra,sending good thoughts and prayers to you all.I hope Koda starts to feel better and Tomi continues to get well.Hugs Sherry http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http://sims.yahoo.com/
Re: We're Baaack!!!!
How did operation get all the cats in the house without the neighbors seeing them go? Did you sneak them in using cardboard boxes? I hope you are settled soon and everyone loves their new digs! Nina elizabeth trent wrote: Glad you made it safe and sound. Good to hear from you. elizabeth On 5/11/07, *dede hicken* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Made it to NY in one piece. What an experience! Ki got car sick, but is now doing fine. Dede
Re: Prednisone?
Oh my Teresa, thank you so much for doing all you do for these kitties. I just can't imagine abandoning any cat on the side of a busy road in winter, let alone one that is sick and blind. I'll never understand how people can be so cruel. Thank goodness little Timmy found his way to you. I'm sorry to hear of your recent loss of Inky. I've said it before, I'll say it again, rescue is not for the faint of heart. I wouldn't worry too much about getting in to the Cornell site. Imho, they are behind the times on much of their information and end up confusing more people than enlightening them. Tell us more about Timmy's symptoms. We have a huge reservoir of experience, (unfortunately), to draw from, perhaps we'll have suggestions for what he and the others are dealing with at the moment. As Susan says, steroids like Pred suppress and weaken natural immune response. Maybe I read your post wrong, but you make it sound like you and your vet think it's some type of benefit to felv to use Pred. That's not the case. There are some ailments that steroids can be beneficial for, but they should always be used sparingly if you are trying to nurse someone back to health. Long term effects of steroids can be very damaging, esp to a cat with felv. I've never heard of using Pred, or dex for that matter, to combat URIs. Kelley, Susan and others just had a thread going about the benefits of Zithromax in treating stubborn URIs, (working better than Baytril). Why don't you ask your vet about that? Let us hear more, we're here to help in any way we can, Nina Susan Hoffman wrote: Prednisone and prednisolone SUPPRESS the immune system. I would not use it with a cat who already had a compromised immune system. (Out of curiosity, what did your vet say about this?) My favorite supplement is transfer factor feline complete. It has an incredible array of vitamins and minerals, may actually enhance immune functioning, and is in a cheese flavored powder that is easy to add to foods. */Teresa [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I recently have acquired several felv+ cats, the one who is sick at the moment is a pathetic case who was dropped off on the highway near a farm, a very popular dumping spot I've been monitoring for the past few years. Many or most of them end up at home with me if they seem not to be faring well at the farm. Anyway, turns out this poor thing is totally blind as well as felv+. I mean he sees NOTHING. I've had many cats who were legally blind but this one doesn't even react to bright light. He was dumped, in winter no less, along a highway roaring with 18 wheelers night and day. How this critter ever lived this long, he's probably 4-5 years old, is totally beyond me. Well I did not mean to get harping that, I'll never get off it. It just makes me sick to my stomach. Timmy is the most loving, slobbering, kissable, hugable, sweet thing to come along for a long time. But I have to guide him to his food dish and this is inside his cage. I mean, how has he LIVED? I suspect whoever dropped him didn't realize he was blind. Cats can sure fool you. But then again, seems it would be hard for him to fool anyone when he has to be shown his food dish. My understanding is that this farm only feeds cats that are dumped off dog food and cow milk, so the daughter told me a couple years ago. And the night I picked him up, Timmy's stomach was making very loud growling noises for several hours, and seemed distended. That all went away in a day or so and I attributed it to drinking milk Ok, what I was checking the list for was, some time ago I thought I saw some info on prednisone use in felv+ cats but I don't find it now. (Also several of the links from the felv site do not work at the moment, including the Cornell info one.) I haven't been giving Timmy pred, or anything solely for his felv, but he's gotten this upper respiratory that is going through my flock and got real sick with it and is now improving with baytril spiked with some dexamethasone just to allow him to breathe better etc. But I understood that pred can be beneficial in felv. Actually I think I snatched him from the jaws of death this time, my fingers are still crossed. Another felv+, Inky, that I picked up at the same time, just died last night from this virus, in spite of the most intensive treatments we could give him. I do have a wonderful vet. But of course I still like to double check up to put into context, what he might be saying about this subject or others. But he has won my confidence over the past 5 years but again, YOU GUYS are the real experts. So can anyone tell me where the pred info is or any thoughts on building Timmy up for future battles? I've
Re: ??? about a negative kitty
I have heard of this with other cats too. Very strange, but I guess some cats have a fetish for plastic! I remember hearing about people finding out that their cats enjoyed peeing on plastic, this after covering furniture with plastic to avoid having it peed on. One woman told of how she can't let a grocery store plastic bag hit the floor because one of her cats will rush to pee on it if it does. I guess it takes all kinds :-) . Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: */Okay, I have a Siamese ever since he was a baby (6 weeks old rescue)/* */he has a fetish for plastic. Especially the plastic bags from the grocery stores it doesn't matter which store it's from./* */He will lick it or love it. /* */He has been tested and there is nothing medically wrong with him./* */He is almost 5 years old./* */Anyone have a kitty that does this?/* */Terrie Mohr-Forker/*
Re: Cat on immunoregulin - colloidal silver
I think she means colloidal silver. I heard about it when I was on an IBD list. I even purchased some, but chickened out when it came to trying it. I have read of anequdotal reports of it benefiting immune related diseases. Here's an excerpt from a website about it: http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm Colloidal silver products are often marketed with various unproven health-related claims. Examples include that they benefit the immune system; kill disease-causing agents such as bacteria, viruses, and fungi; are an alternative to prescription antibiotics; or treat diseases such as cancer, HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, syphilis, scarlet fever, shingles, herpes, pneumonia, and prostatitis (inflammation of the prostate). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never heard of silver collagen, but the other treatments sound logical and appropriate. Good for your vet for treating appropriately, and not writing your cat off! can you let us know his name and location, we keep a record of all FELV friendly vets so others can find them. Phaewryn http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html Special Needs Cat Resources http://www.iGive.com/html/refer.cfm?causeid=21303 Sign up for iGive and a percentage of your purchases helps save animals!
Re: Cat on immunoregulin - fear of injections
Nazleen, I understand how you feel about not wanting to give your little sweetheart injections. It won't help him one little bit to give in to your fear about it. Just put on your nurses hat and detach yourself from the discomfort of it as best you can. Approach it and Abu with a positive, loving and purposeful manner, you are doing this to help him, and the calmer and more matter-of-fact you are about it the sooner it will be over. Have something yummy like some tuna or baby food ready to go. You may even want to give him something to eat while you are giving him the shot. Sometimes when they are distracted, they don't even feel it. My dentist pinches my opposite cheek when he gives me novocaine to distract me, even though I know what he's doing, it still helps. Tell Abu what you are doing is going to help him get better and to trust you. Have everything prepared before you pick him up. If you can get someone to hold him from squirming out of your grip, esp the first time, all the better. 1,2,3, you're done! Medicate him in the same place each time, (I use the kitchen counters because they're not suppose to be up there anyway, if they develop an unpleasant association with the counter, it's better than someplace we usually cuddle together. I have learned through experience that the fear of the medication is far worse than the medicating itself. You'll see if you have to give him shots on a regular basis that he will begin to be much calmer in time because he knows what to expect. Take the fear out of it for yourself and you'll take the fear out of it for him. Prayers and blessings, Nina Nazleen Rahmat wrote: Hi guys, Thanks so much for the replies. Please send us your prayers. Abu finished up all his food yesterday. I was sooo happy! I've to give him his jab tomorrow and I'm super frightened!
Re: need advice from new member - Thank you
Hurray! Thank you for reminding me once again how the rewards of being a member of this list outweigh all the heartache we endure. It's filled with people just like the two of you. People that put their intuition and heart before the advice of others that don't know any better, or have found themselves in circumstances that they feel force them to make such drastic and final choices. One loving guardian at a time, one educated vet at a time, we are making a difference in our world. Much love, happiness and health to you and your households, Nina Sheryl Spagg wrote: Hi Deana, Like you, I am new to this as well. My friend and I rescued a momma kitty with 6 kittens and a 6 month old boy. The boy turned up negative but the momma turned up positive. We were told by other rescuers to have all of them PTS, but my friend and I just couldn't do it. We didn't feel like we knew enough about this disease to take happy healthy kittens and have them PTS. I am so glad I didn't do it because now that I know more there is a huge chance these kittens can have great lives...their momma has no symptoms at all so who knows if for one the test was right or if the babies will even get it. We have actually already found homes for the boy and one of the babies in the same home and the family has decided to give the FeLV vaccine to their negative kitties...these cats can and will have a better chance at life because we chose not to PTS...keep up the good work with the kittens...it is so worth it. Sheryl --- Deana K. Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasnâEUR^(TM)t tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesnâEUR^(TM)t act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighborâEUR^(TM)s dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldnâEUR^(TM)t want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I havenâEUR^(TM)t had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified âEUR so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and donâEUR^(TM)t appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: New Member - Deb and mixing
Deb, You are afraid of mixing because the danger is real. Your household is indicative of that. We might never know how it is that you have 3 previously believed neg cats testing pos. Was the disease dormant in their systems before they came to you, are they in the process of clearing the virus, did one carrier give it to the others? My one piece of advice for you is to keep them separated until you have come to terms with what mixing them might mean. Imho, I don't think you are going to spare any of the negs from the possibility of whatever fate has in store, they've already had too much contact together for that. One of the hardest things we have to learn in being the guardian of special needs animals is that no matter how desperately we want to control the outcome, no matter how diligently we arm ourselves with information and advice, it is ultimately not in our power to keep them safe from illness. All we can do is our best to insure that the time they do have to share with us is filled with as much joy, safety and love that we can offer. Early on I made the decision that I would opt for quality of life rather than quantity. Each and every one of us must make these types of decisions on our own. It's a very personal judgement call that only you can make. We must weigh the potential consequences and be ready to live with whatever the results turn out to be. There are no guarantees with felv or with life. Why do you think so many otherwise caring people still advocate pts? It's the only sure solution to save you from dealing with the possible ramifications of living with felv. No life, no felv. Dealing with the what ifs after the fact is always punishing, (what if I'd kept them separate, what if I'd sought out treatment sooner, what if I'd done this or that differently). Researching my alternatives, knowing I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, following my intuition and heart, are my talismans against the bitterness of what if. Nina Deb Stockbridge wrote: Hi Nina, I Love to hear more and more experiences from all of you that mix negatives and positives...it's building my confidence more each day. What I need to know is do you still keep them together if one still has a persistent cough that just won't clear even after treatment or if one sneezes here or there? My situation as it is now is that I have 3 positives , the two boys that I might have homes for , and my calico girl that I thought I had a home for but after seeing her with symptoms of her cough which I had thought went away, I feel I can't let her move and be more stressed out until I can get her completely healthy and a little more weight on her. My boys seems healthy but may sneeze here and there or have a little coughnothing persistent or on a daily basis so I was just wondering if it's still OK to mix them with my negative boys? My Calico girl is back on antibiotics and while she was with us that night for about 5 hours ,before she had that bad coughing spell she was fine for the 5 hours. So can she still be with my negative boys while I treat her. You said I should've seen her face when I had to confine her..well I barely could see her face because I was crying my eyes out myself:( She was not put by herself thank god , otherwise I would've grabbed a sleeping bag and slept with her! She was put back with her two feline brothers who are also positive so I hope she wasn't too distraughtI sure know I was though!! I know my kits have all been exposed and I have now vaccinated the negative ones. I just don't know the do's and don'ts of mixing them all together again. I think I'm so scared because I had thought I had 6 healthy cats, 3 had been tested for FELV and showed negative and lived healthy and happily for over 2 years. I then brought in 3 more over the past year of which one tested negative and I never tested the last two thinking they came from parents that were tested. Then all of the sudden one gets sick and I have 3 FELV+ cats, one is my oldest Bengal boy who tested negative previously and then the two that were never tested. None are related. I was told this is a rare situation and if FELV doesn't spread that easily then why are 3 of mine infected? So I either have really bad luck and more than one brought this in my home and the FELV tests I had done that were negative meant nothing or the last 2 I brought in came here with it and spread it to my adult cat. I will never know, but after having been hit with 3 of my 6 cats getting this disease at one time with still one kit to test, to me that makes me think this spreads like wildfire and that is why I'm so nervous about putting them all back together. The first night we decided to bring up my calico girl was after I had fed them all so they didn't share any food dishes and my other kits didn't really even go near her as they were surprised to see
Re: need advice from new member - Thank you
Yep, there's a 'bus' with your name on it out there somewhere. Now that is guaranteed. N MaryChristine wrote: and the real thing that people keep forgetting is that there are no guarantees for the kitties who DON'T have FeLV! your $2,500 showcat can fall over permanently from HCM, anyone can throw a blood clot, etc. same with people--if we stop loving other living things because they're gonna get sick and die, well, think about it MC On 5/9/07, *Sheryl Spagg* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Nina. I actually called my vet and talked to my favorite vet tech and not once did she mention PTS. She explained to me about the disease and told me about a kitten she had that was positive and she had to find a home for but other than that there was NO talk of PTS. Any vet that tells people that has certainly not done their research...I am not a vet by any means, but there is no way I would put a cat/kittens to sleep because they have a 30% chance of getting sick...that is unreasonable in my eyes...I already have 4 cats of my own and of them 3 have issues (Diabetes Seizures) so you never know if a cat is going to get sick or not...or a dog for that matter...it is life and you deal with it...you certainly don't give up! Sheryl
Re: OT- Kitten safe flea products (was - Cheap source of Zithromax?)
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-All-in-One-Flea-Remedy/999012.aspx I just remembered something that I've used in my feral bedding... I looked for age warnings and didn't see any, (but I'm tired and the print is small). If you're considering it, you might want to contact them and make sure it's safe to use on 4 week old kittens. Nina Only Natural Pet All-in-One Flea Remedy is an odorless powder that can be applied directly to the fur of a dog or cat and sprinkled on your carpet, hardwood floors, baseboards, furniture, and pet bedding. You can even sprinkle it in your lawn or garden where your pets roam. Its primary ingredient is diatomaceous earth, a natural flea treatment that has been used for hundreds of years. As soon as fleas come into contact with it they become dehydrated and die. It's that simple! And fleas cannot build up an immunity to it because it works mechanically, not chemically. Ingredients: Diatomaceous Earth, Sage, Eucalyptus, Yellowdock Root, Fennel Seed, Rosemary Leaf.
Kelley - Transfer Factor (was OT- Cheap source of Zithromax?)
I have a friend that swears Transfer Factor (an immune regulator) saved the life of a cat of hers with panleuk. I've used it in the past too. Lance on the list thinks it helps his Ember. Anyway, it couldn't hurt to try it. Most of my guys like the flavor, I mix it with baby food. Here's my original post about it: Transfer Factor is suppose to be an 'immune balancer' that is taken from cow's colostrum, they also use something from chicken yolks. The idea is to educate an immature or imbalanced immune system to bring it into balance and help it ward off illness. I'm not even sure if it works, but according to the studies I've read, it hasn't had any ill effects, even when amounts used are many times higher than recommended. There have been good reports about general health, (shiny coat etc.) from some of the folks I know who are using it. There are several different formulas for people and animals. Here's a link to the manufacture info about Transfer Factor: http://www.transferfactorinstitute.com http://www.transferfactorinstitute.com/TransferFactor/basic.htm Here's the ordering info: The phone number for the company is: (888) 454-3374. www.4life.com http://www.4life.com Susan Hoffman wrote: From what you have said I would be a little concerned about panleuk. But you can rule it in or out without a necropsy. *//*
Eye ointments (was OT- Cheap source of Zithromax?)
Sheryl, Kelley and Susan are talking about Terramycin ointment, (you can get it otc at better pet supply stores). I've never heard of using regular topical neosporin in somebody's eyes. I would have been uncomfortable trying that. BNP, (bacitracin, polymixin, neomycin) is available with a prescription. I've personally never used it. A cotton ball soaked in saline solution helps sooth their eyes and keep them clean. Sometimes that's all that is necessary if you catch a gunky eye in time. Nina Sheryl Spagg wrote: What do you put on their eyes? I was told to use neosporin and it will clear up their eyes and it has worked wonders with my kittens...their eyes are as clear as they should be... Susan Hoffman wrote: */Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: FYI: BNP ointment is far superior to terramycin.
Re: Eye ointments (was OT- Cheap source of Zithromax?) - household remedies
I read on the net that some breeders, (dog breeders that is), use regular crazy glue the way you would surgical glue for cuts that may otherwise require a stitch or two, (using it on themselves as well). We should look for a book that lists household remedies for common veterinary problems. If there isn't one out there maybe we should write one. Although, if there isn't one out there it may be because no one wants to get sued if the remedies are used improperly or somehow go awry. :-) Nina Sheryl Spagg wrote: I was told to use it by a vet tech. I was hesitant to try it, but did on 2 of the babies. I didn't rub it on their eyes themselves, just around them. Within hours the eyes were cleared up and the yuckies have not come back...
Re: New Member - Deb and mixing
Deb, I'm pleased to hear you have potential adopters for your boys. I'm hoping that someone will adopt them together. Tell those folks to come join us here! Forgive me for responding without reading your previous posts, you may already have addressed this, but... I am one of the people that have mixed negs and pos together, (with the negs being vaccinated). I have done this for years without any of my negs turning pos, but I understand what a difficult decision it is to make. In my case, I had brought in a litter of felv bottle babies and didn't find out they were pos until they had been mixing freely with the rest of the household for months. It still gave me pause, (because the vets and the literature suggested segregating, hell, they suggested euthanizing too), but it would have been hard on everyone concerned to separate them at that point. One of my cats at the time was a born-in-the-wild feral that had had no shots at all and had mixed right into the litter as if it were her own. (She tested neg later, boy did I sweat that one). I took a leap of faith and followed my heart and kept everyone together. I felt fairly safe in making this decision, (as far as the guilt/fear factor goes), because everyone had already been exposed. Perhaps explaining it in that way might make your son more receptive to the idea? For Heaven's sake, you've already re-exposed your neg cats with last night's visiting. I mean no disrespect, but it seems a little like locking the barn door after the horse has escaped, (again). Everyone loved our felv babies. I don't think there was an animal in the house that hadn't spent very intimate time with them. I recently lost a stray-turned-resident with both fiv and felv. During his last weeks I cringed everytime he sneezed felv germs all over the house. I haven't had the others tested since Spencer passed, (I will if anyone gets symptoms of illness), but I'm confident that no one has contracted felv. I would never judge anyone's decisions about mixing. We all understand both sides of the argument too well. I can hear how dedicated you are to helping these babies and I thank you for everything you are doing for them. I just wanted to throw my two cents in because I can just picture that little girl's face when she was closed off from the family again. None of the decisions we are forced to make are easy, and all too few results of those decisions are truly in our control. Blessings to you and your family, Nina Deb Stockbridge wrote: OMG Phaewryn, YOU ARE A GODSEND!! You posted my boys last night and already I have a home for Bruschi and possibly one for Jadon as well! Someone very close by me saw them on Petfinder and fell in love with both but thinks Bruschi will be the perfect match for her FELV+ female 7 month old kitten so that's who she chose and she might know of a friend who can also take Jadon. I'm meeting with her on Friday and will know then if both boys have a new home. I'm just crying over having to do this so soon as I never expected this quick of a response but also crying for the joy of having potential homes where my boys can have free roam of their new homes and interact with people like they were used to here before I had to keep them confined. I will let you know Friday how things go.keep your fingers crossed all goes well for me and my boys! I just can't thank you enough for your help and it has made dealing with all this that much easier to handle.one step at a time:) BTWafter reading a few of the emails from others about how they mix their positives and negatives with pretty good luck I tried to do this last night after finally talking my Son into letting us try it with one at a time. All was well and boy was our girl happy and meowing up a storm for the first couple hours and we were just all so happy to have her with us again UNTIL later that night she had a coughing spell and it woke me up as well as my Son and my Son started crying and asking where our two negative kits were and it freaked him out more than I expected and I had to confine her with the two boys again:( I have to admit it scared me as well and I know it would take some time to get used to but I think with every sneeze or cough we would just think what it could be doing to our healthy cats and I just don't think I can put my Son through that again. I really commend all of you who can manage a positive and negative household and if it was just me and my husband I think I could eventually get used to the idea but just not right now with my Son here with us. I love ALL my babies and it would be ideal to keep them all if I could let them live together but for now it's best I find homes for these special kits. You are all just wonderful people helping these animals with health issues and though I can't foster them in my own home , if I can help in any other way, with transporting
Re: OT- Cheap source of Zithromax? - rabies vac
Accidental over-vaccination for rabies is what caused my Gypsy's IBD. We almost lost her and to this day battle the consequences. Grab the vets by the shirt collar, look them in the eye and make sure they hear you when you tell them they have already been vaccinated! Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: Often when I take my cats to the free s/n place they vaccinate them *even when* i provide proof. On 5/8/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's lots of places, susan, where rabies vaccinations are mandatory--and even where strictly they're not, more and more vets are acting as if they are. even one of mine that i've been working with for years won't treat anyone without PROOF of rabies vaccination. in certain states--and i think texas is one--all the s/n pages said that dogs and cats WOULD be vaccinated if proof wasn't supplied. (but southern states tended, in the past, to have more actual rabies than some others, too) MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: Eye ointments (was OT- Cheap source of Zithromax?)
MC, have I told you lately how glad I am that you are active on this list? Along with your freely sharing all that hard earned wisdom, no matter what is going on you seem always able to wrestle a snort of laughter out of me. Nina MaryChristine wrote: yeah, drops are good for the nose addition, for sure! (unless you're working with persians, in which case you can't always FIND the nose.) On 5/8/07, * Kelley Saveika* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Terramycin i use ointment..triple antibiotic I use drops...Sometimes I have to have drops so i can get them in the nose, though I guess I could use both.
Re: Eye ointments (was OT- Cheap source of Zithromax?)
Kelley, Pardon me, but are you crazy? (Look who's talking). Have you never heard the saying Be careful what you wish for? Not that I have anything against Persians of any nose length, but com'on girl, you have your paws full already! Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: Oh, well, it isn't that they are easier to medicate, it is just that I want one:)
Re: need advice from new member
Not only would I not consider pts those babies, I'd like to go punch your vet in the nose. It sounds like there is a question about whether that brave momma was actually pos herself, let alone the babies. So many vets are so outdated in the way they deal with felv. It used to be a common practice, (still is unfortunately in some shelters/rescues), to test one of the kittens in a litter and assume that if one tested pos, they all were. Or that because the mom is pos presume the kittens were too. From personal experience and from the folks on this list, I can tell you that isn't the case. Felv has very few hard fast rules, (it can make you crazy with fear and grief trying to second guess what might happen). The people on this list have had much more experience and I trust their input and knowledge more than any vet I've encountered. That doesn't mean you won't need a vet to help you with raising these kits, but you should start looking right now for one that has had experience with the disease that doesn't just write them off, (or at least one that will be willing to help you and be open to suggestions and researching possible solutions). Take a deep breath Deana. You are going to lose enough sleep with 3am feedings as it is. Don't allow yourself to fret over something that you don't have the answers to yet. Speaking of 3am feedings, I have a great homemade formula that I can send you off-list, (we can't do attachments), if you are interested. Welcome, and tell your vet to watch his back :-) Nina Deana K. Wagoner wrote: I am new to the list and need some advice. We have a number of ferals in our neighborhood and there has been an effort to trap/spay-neuter as many as possible. I have been successful in turning two of them into great house cats. One was negative and vaccinated at 6 months of age. She is about 12 months now. The other kitty is several years old and was spayed, but as far as I know she wasn’t tested. She lived on my patio for a year then decided to be a house cat. I haven’t had her tested yet, but she is very healthy. I suspect she is a cat that ran off/got lost or was dumped. She is a Rag Doll and really doesn’t act like a true feral. Another feral in the neighborhood had a little late last summer. Before I could capture these guys, one of the females got pregnant and delivered the litter of kittens on my patio. When the kittens were a day old, a neighbor’s dog attacked the stray mother and got one of the kittens. The mother cat went up a tree, then took off. I tried to follow her, with no luck. I watched the kittens for about four hours, and she never returned. We got some kmr and feed the 4 remaining kittens, continuing to watch for her to return. She returned in the middle of the night on Sunday night in a rain storm, obviously in bad shape. I just happened to look out when I was up in the middle of the night bottle feeding the kittens. I took her to the vet as soon they opened yesterday morning, but she died from the injuries. The vet suggested testing her for FeLV. (with the comment that if the cat was positive, you wouldn’t want to treat her any way.) The vet reported there was a negative test, then a second test was positive. The vet then suggested that all of the kittens be PTS immediately with the chance that they were positive. I haven’t had cats much for the last 20 years, although I grew up with cats- all before FeLV was identified – so I am not familiar with it. Based on what I am reading, there are LOTS of questions about test results/vaccinating/etc. We are bottle feeding the kittens and they are growing like crazy, crawling all over the place and don’t appear at all sick. They were only with their mother just under 24 hours. (born last Thursday.) Is this common to just give up on the babies without knowing if they are positive or not? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks Deana
Rabies wavier
I'm in so cal and I've also been told that a written wavier from your vet is usually all that is required for exemption. Rabies shots are otherwise mandatory in my county. They won't even allow you the privilege of licensing an animal without proof of vaccination, or a waiver. Now, getting a vet to write that waiver has been another story. Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: I posted the link to what as far as I can tell is the full body of the law. It says nothing about exceptions for medical conditions. If you can find something please let me know.
Re: Rabies wavier
Oh man Kelley, I would absolutely not take his word for that. That doesn't even make any sense, not that laws have to make sense. I would find where in writing it mandates, or stipulates that an animal, even in dire medical condition, must be subjected to rabies inoculations. You could start by calling the office that dispenses pet licenses in your area. If by some ridiculous chance that's true, the law should be changed. Maybe you could pass the info on to a local animal rights group to spearhead the effort. Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: All I can tell you for sure is that my vet has told me the law requires him to give rabies shots even if it would kill the animal on the spot. No waivers. Now, we don't vaccinate Missy at all... On 5/8/07, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It varies from state to state and county to county. I'm in northern California. Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in so cal and I've also been told that a written wavier from your vet is usually all that is required for exemption. Rabies shots are otherwise mandatory in my county. They won't even allow you the privilege of licensing an animal without proof of vaccination, or a waiver. Now, getting a vet to write that waiver has been another story. Nina Kelley Saveika wrote: I posted the link to what as far as I can tell is the full body of the law. It says nothing about exceptions for medical conditions. If you can find something please let me know.
Re: Update on mva kitties - all three kitties are safe with Cyndi
It truly is a miracle come true for these kitties and their family to be reunited. A miracle spurred on by some incredible people, I believe all the good thoughts, Glow and prayers had a part in it too. I'm not sure how long Cyndi, (the family friend up north that started the rescue effort in motion) will continue to keep the webpage updated, (http://immuneweb.org/lostcats/), but if you go take a look, she has posted a picture of the twin boys that were involved in the accident. If you recall, one of the babies was injured, (he's doing well considering, but only time will tell the extent of the head trauma damage), the mother had an eye injury that required surgery and was expected to lose the sight in that eye, but now she has regained some vision and it is hoped that it will continue to improve. Barbara, one of the volunteers arrived late last night at Cyndi's house with all three kitties. It's so wonderful to think that all three kitties are now safe and sound and even were able to transported home together. The dog involved in the accident remains with the family at the grandparent's house, (he was uninjured in the crash, as was the dad and other brother). Big ol' sigh of relief, Nina Gina WN wrote: Absolutely fantastic news!!! Gina */Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: I'm so thrilled to report that Sammi is safe, reunited with Geri, Little Guy and her family! Below is an edited version of the report on what happened last night. HURRAY!! Nina OH MY GOSH - we got Sammi tonight! I am sorry if I have a bunch of typos here but I am pretty much operating on being up since 3:00 am last night.Sammi's human parents decided to come out tonight to look for Sammi.Traps had been set this afternoon where it was obviously she had been hiding out. I was going to go back later and set the rest of the traps. I was supposed to meet the fur parents in a parking lot near the site. I pulled in first and was actually on the phone when I looked to my left and saw Sammi! I told them - I have to go now - I see Sammi. I called the parents and said Where are you? They had just turned down the street and flashed their high beams at me. They got out and I told them Sammi had gone up behind the dumpster where she had eaten the food the night before. This was about 7:45 this evening by the way. So they walked over and started calling her. When Sammi heard their voices, she started meowing. This was the first we had heard anything out of Sammi. Within 10 minutes, dad had Sammi in his arms. They had brought a carrier and I set it on the ground with the door open and then backed off so I would not spook Sammi. I thought he had her secure ly scruffed but just as he was about to put her in the carrier, she flipped around and took off again and went into her hiding place. It took another hour and much coaxing and some food in a small plate that they could shake and finally we got her again. This time we put the carrier in my car and he went in my car and we closed the doors until he had her secure. So Sammi is going to spend the night with Geri and Little Guy and tomorrow will be on her way up north with a volunteer to settle in back home. The parents are so grateful for all of the help that everyone has offered. I cannot believe we got all 3 cats back! It is truly amazing! I guess it takes a village to catch a cat! WOW - I am exhausted but still on such a high from getting this cat. THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANK YOU everyone for support, comments, encouragement - even though you may not have been here on the front lines. We have made a family very happy. I got to meet the baby tonight. He is adorable and doing as well as can be expected. They may not get around to thanking everyone personally but please know that they are extremely grateful for all of the kind words, efforts and they are truly amazed that all of these strangers came out to help them. Good night! ** *Visit my **Tigger Tales* http://tiggerwiggins.com/* site!* Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail QA http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396546091 for great tips from Yahoo! Answers http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/index;_ylc=X3oDMTFvbGNhMGE3BF9TAzM5NjU0NTEwOARfcwMzOTY1NDUxMDMEc2VjA21haWxfdGFnbGluZQRzbGsDbWFpbF90YWcx?link=asksid=396546091 users.
Update on mva kitties - SAMMI IS SAFE!!
I'm so thrilled to report that Sammi is safe, reunited with Geri, Little Guy and her family! Below is an edited version of the report on what happened last night. HURRAY!! Nina OH MY GOSH - we got Sammi tonight! I am sorry if I have a bunch of typos here but I am pretty much operating on being up since 3:00 am last night. Sammi's human parents decided to come out tonight to look for Sammi. Traps had been set this afternoon where it was obviously she had been hiding out. I was going to go back later and set the rest of the traps. I was supposed to meet the fur parents in a parking lot near the site. I pulled in first and was actually on the phone when I looked to my left and saw Sammi! I told them - I have to go now - I see Sammi. I called the parents and said Where are you? They had just turned down the street and flashed their high beams at me. They got out and I told them Sammi had gone up behind the dumpster where she had eaten the food the night before. This was about 7:45 this evening by the way. So they walked over and started calling her. When Sammi heard their voices, she started meowing. This was the first we had heard anything out of Sammi. Within 10 minutes, dad had Sammi in his arms. They had brought a carrier and I set it on the ground with the door open and then backed off so I would not spook Sammi. I thought he had her securely scruffed but just as he was about to put her in the carrier, she flipped around and took off again and went into her hiding place. It took another hour and much coaxing and some food in a small plate that they could shake and finally we got her again. This time we put the carrier in my car and he went in my car and we closed the doors until he had her secure. So Sammi is going to spend the night with Geri and Little Guy and tomorrow will be on her way up north with a volunteer to settle in back home. The parents are so grateful for all of the help that everyone has offered. I cannot believe we got all 3 cats back! It is truly amazing! I guess it takes a village to catch a cat! WOW - I am exhausted but still on such a high from getting this cat. THANK YOU,THANK YOU, THANK YOU everyone for support, comments, encouragement - even though you may not have been here on the front lines. We have made a family very happy. I got to meet the baby tonight. He is adorable and doing as well as can be expected. They may not get around to thanking everyone personally but please know that they are extremely grateful for all of the kind words, efforts and they are truly amazed that all of these strangers came out to help them. Good night!
Re: Update on mva kitties - Sammi is alive and has been spotted
Here's another brief update... Sammi was spotted again this morning (Fri) by someone that works near the crash site, (bless those folks for continuing to keep an eye out for her). At least we know she is remaining in the general area and that she is still alive. They described her as a small gray cat running out of the yard, so it sounds like she's still in decent health. Rescue efforts are ongoing, keep those good thoughts coming this family's way. Nina Nina wrote: For all of you that are sending positive thoughts and prayers, here's the latest. Very good news and some bad news... Sammi is alive and has been spotted, but she bolted when approached. Pray that she returns to the general area that the other two kitties were retrieved from and that she finds the food stations/traps that are being set up for her. Nina
Re: pet-food recall info
Wow, I'm shocked at the service at Pet Food Direct. I called them asking about returning the unused portion of Triumph food I purchased from them and they told me to write to them including the UPS code from each of the varieties I feel uncomfortable about using and they would refund my account. I don't even have to send back the unused portion of my order. Thought I'd let you know in case the companies you are dealing with are as accommodating. It truly never hurts to ask. I guess I won't be choking down cat food and crackers after all. Nina Nina wrote: Thanks MC. It would be much easier if a list was compiled with brands and foods that have been verified by testing to be safe. I have 3 cases of Triumph wet food, (not the particular flavors on the list), that I'm now afraid to feed. I'd eat them myself over crackers, but I'm not sure how much I'd like beef and salmon combined together, (maybe a little mayonnaise). Pretty soon some adventurer will start selling home-testing kits we can use before we set the food bowls down. Nina
Re: pet-food recall info
One not so great thing about my phone call to Pet Food Direct... The woman I talked to suggested I donate the food to a shelter or rescue. Of course I told her that that wasn't a good idea. I certainly wouldn't want some orphan cat or pup eating something that I wouldn't feed my own kids. I have wondered too where all the recalled food is going, (besides the possibility of it being sold as salvage food for poultry and stockyards). Even if it is dumped, what about the birds and wildlife that would find it? When I was watching the committee hearings that you and Belinda alerted us to, the question was asked and we were told that it was being warehoused. I find little comfort in the assurances of big business, but I wish someone had thought to ask and what happens to it when you are ready to clear those warehouses? Nina MaryChristine wrote: has anyone heard anything about a SAFE way to dispose of the bad food? so it doesn't end up being fed to, say, cattle and pigs and other food animals? On 5/4/07, * Nina* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, I'm shocked at the service at Pet Food Direct. I called them asking about returning the unused portion of Triumph food I purchased from them and they told me to write to them including the UPS code from each of the varieties I feel uncomfortable about using and they would refund my account. I don't even have to send back the unused portion of my order. Thought I'd let you know in case the companies you are dealing with are as accommodating. It truly never hurts to ask. I guess I won't be choking down cat food and crackers after all. Nina
Re: OT: Need Ideas For Making dry food
I know I've seen recipes for home made dog biscuits, darn if I remember where though. I think in a mag like Dog Fancy. I did a search online and got frustrated fast. I saw lots of people asking about cats that only eat dry, but only one response so far: There are some companies that make a dehydrated raw meat kibble. Nature's Variety and Majestic Raw both make a kibble. You can find this type of food at smaller independent pet stores. Some of them would be happy to order it for you if they don't carry it. I'll keep looking for you. Nina Belinda wrote: Ok, all you cooks out there, I need some ideas on how to make dry cat food.
Re: OT: Need Ideas For Making dry food
Okay, here's a website that has recipes for moist and dry cat treats: http://www.cdkitchen.com/recipes/cat/1231/0.shtml I didn't view the recipes, just the titles. You may be able to figure out how to incorporate the necessary ingredients, (for balanced nutrition, if it's not already in there), from reading some of the recipes. You're our test kitchen Belinda, let us know how you do and whether your efforts pass the finicky taste test of your dry food junkies. Nina Nina wrote: I know I've seen recipes for home made dog biscuits, darn if I remember where though. I think in a mag like Dog Fancy. I did a search online and got frustrated fast. I saw lots of people asking about cats that only eat dry, but only one response so far: There are some companies that make a dehydrated raw meat kibble. Nature's Variety and Majestic Raw both make a kibble. You can find this type of food at smaller independent pet stores. Some of them would be happy to order it for you if they don't carry it. I'll keep looking for you. Nina Belinda wrote: Ok, all you cooks out there, I need some ideas on how to make dry cat food.
Re: Update on mva kitties - Sammi is alive and has been spotted
Hi Taylor, He was able to go last night, but no sighting as far as I know. It does seem like a good omen that Teddy chose the number 3! Nina Taylor Scobie Humphrey wrote: 33 A little message there from Baby Pooma Teddy! He must be saying that those three kitties belong together. When will the kitties' daddy be able to come back to call to Sammi?
Re: pet-food recall info
Thanks MC. It would be much easier if a list was compiled with brands and foods that have been verified by testing to be safe. I have 3 cases of Triumph wet food, (not the particular flavors on the list), that I'm now afraid to feed. I'd eat them myself over crackers, but I'm not sure how much I'd like beef and salmon combined together, (maybe a little mayonnaise). Pretty soon some adventurer will start selling home-testing kits we can use before we set the food bowls down. Nina MaryChristine wrote: www.howl911.com http://www.howl911.com hasn't been updated in a few days; not sure why. www.itchmo.com http://www.itchmo.com seems to have the most up-to-date info; and you can sign up for email alerts. MC
Re: pet-food recall info
You forgot the crackers and mayonnaise! Kelley Saveika wrote: I tried some Evo last night (entirely accidentally) but the cats love it, except Sugar, who I don't think realizes it is food. On 5/3/07, Nina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks MC. It would be much easier if a list was compiled with brands and foods that have been verified by testing to be safe. I have 3 cases of Triumph wet food, (not the particular flavors on the list), that I'm now afraid to feed. I'd eat them myself over crackers, but I'm not sure how much I'd like beef and salmon combined together, (maybe a little mayonnaise). Pretty soon some adventurer will start selling home-testing kits we can use before we set the food bowls down. Nina
Re: Hello
Hi Debi and welcome! Bless you for opening your home to felv kitties, (you're a brave woman to take so many in at one time). It's wonderful that you sought us out while everyone is healthy. I'm a little confused about your family line up. Let me see if I've got this straight... You have 6 permanent residents, 3 of whom are felv+ and 5 fosters, 2 of whom are felv+, is that right? Are your other 3 permanent residents vaccinated? How old are your personal neg cats? The very old, (or infirm) and the very young are more susceptible to contracting felv. There are many on the list that have mixed neg and pos kitties together for years without any of the negs becoming pos. Of course you can't take a chance like that with neg foster kitties. Have you considered only fostering felv+ cats for the rescue you work with? There are so few homes that would be willing to take these guys in and if you stopped fostering negs, you'd have less concerns for them and more room for pos. Just a suggestion from an advocate of our pos friends :-) . I'm sure you'll get lots of great advice and support from the list. Ask as many questions as you like, as you may already have noticed, we go ot quite a bit around here. It's a very warm and supportive community we share. I love these people. The general advice is to keep their environment as stress free as possible, feed the best food you can afford, supplement with immune boosters/modulators, and never take a wait-and-see approach to any sign of illness. These guys bounce back from illnesses just like any other cat, the difference is an illness that a neg cat might fight off by themselves has to be caught and aggressively treated sooner because of their compromised immune systems. I'm so glad you found us, Nina Debi Holmes wrote: Hello, I just wanted to introduce myself and tell you a little about my situation. My name is Debi and I live in Nazareth, Pennsylvania. I am a foster mom for a cat rescue. I have 6 of my own cats and I currently have 5 foster cats. I also have 3 of my own FELV positive kitties and 2 other FELV positive kitties that I am fostering. My 3 girls Sunshine, Cutie Pie, and Chloe are all sisters that are about 9 months old, they live in my computer room, which is great for them because my daughter is in there alot, so they get my attention and hers. The 2 fosters that I have live in the room, I had initially built for my girls downstairs, and they are BooBoo who is about one and half years old, and then there is Thumbelina who is about 8 months old. The girls I have had since they were just 8 weeks old, BooBoo was living outside a nursing home and they called us to come and get him. Thumbelina was rescued from underneath a shed. All are super sweet except for Thumbelina she wants nothing to do with BooBoo or with me, she just hangs out up in the rafters of the room. Anyway these kitties will be my first experience with FELV positive kitties so I wanted to be in a group with other owners of FELV positive kitties. Thank you, Debi H. Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-
Re: Hello
Hi Debi, Yes, it's true that we do lose a lot of kittens born with felv before their first year, so it's a good sign when they reach that milestone. Another thing to keep in mind is that many kittens test false pos, (it is an indicator that your first 3 girls were actually pos, since they all tested that way). Many previously healthy cats seroconvert (clear the virus) on their own and for that reason should be retested using the IFA test, (a more accurate testing method than the in-house ELISA) in 3 to 6 mos or so. We all hear you about the heartbreak of losing these kitties and how insane it can seem to purposely sign up for so much possible grief. The way I have come to terms with dealing with special needs cats and losing them way to soon, is to appreciate the time we do have together and to know that I am providing them the chance at a life, (no matter how long or short that life may be), full of love, commitment and understanding. The quality of time we spend together, the lessons learned and valued that come from our associations, at least for me, make anything I may suffer worthwhile. Nina Debi Holmes wrote: Nina, You have it right! And yes my 3 are vaccinated. My personal cats are 13, 6 and 4. It all started with the 3 girls kittens I took in. I took them to foster until we could find a home or a sanctuary, but months went by and I could not bare to see them seperated and found that most people don't even want to take a look at them and they are just beautiful girls. They are just like other kittens/cats. I feed them the best quality food that I can afford and I always do them first for feeding and litterboxes as my fosters come in looking good and then whamo they have something. I have heard that if they make it through the first year then their chances of survival go up greatly. I do not know if this is true or not. I have thought about just fostering positive kitties but I am a little afraid of getting attached and losing them way to soon, because like you said nobody really wants them. Anyway I am hoping to hear alot of good things and to get information when I am in need. Thank you, Debi H
