Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
Hi, On 02/08/18 10:33, Jungle Boogie wrote: > I enjoy mailing lists, having a copy of the mail and being able to reply from > mutt (which I'm doing now), but I think what's been implemented within fossil > is > something we can all appreciate and find use of. A small project may not use > tickets, the wiki, or tech notes. That project probably won't have a mailing > list either. > Now there's another feature, for free, that they also may not use - a forum. I also enjoy mailing list. Hopefully some RSS way of subscribing/replying to the forum from a mail client will be provided and I will stay here as much as possible before subscribing to the forum. But i think that its a good addition to have in Fossil. Even for a small project, like the ones I admin in Fossil, I have found a use for several of its integrated features: files and tickets (mainly), wiki (before discovering embedded doc) and tech notes (in a minor way). Not that forum will be enabled, I foresee it as a welcomed feature for our projects. Cheers, Offray ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 2018-08-02 1:57 AM, Pietro Cerutti wrote: Send out the whole content of a post, and you'll have a mailing-list. Well, the distribution half of a mailing list anyway. Devise a mechanism to allow replying to such an email and sync it with the forum, and you'll have made a gian leap forwards in dismantling the web/email barricade. That's what most mailing lists (those with on-line archives) do. Visiting the archive is purely optional, it's there in case you didn't keep a message or just joined and want to read-up before asking "dumb" questions. However as others have mentioned having inbound email processing, unless very carefully handled, would defeat the initial purpose: to stop wasting drh's time dealing with spam, and particularly the annoying spam that was being sent directly to list members after they post. Not long ago I got several score of those based on a posting from years ago. For my part, as long as the notifications contain the message body text I'm fine with having to go to the web forum to reply. In answer to DD's caveat, I'm even fine with having to go to the forum to get context for the occasional post which needs it; but even in a forum where quoting when you reply is uncommon or unheard of, I find that I usually have enough context from just the emails. Shal Shal Farley Cheshire Engineering Corporation +1 626 303 1602 http://www.CheshireEng.com ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Thu 02 Aug 2018 6:03 PM, joerg van den hoff wrote: > > the specific _concern_ here is the contemplated shutdown of this mailing > list and mandatory(!) migration of all questions/discussions to the > planned/upcoming fossil-scm forum. if that's what going to happen: so be it. > but I would prefer otherwise. > Sure, I was providing a little history as of why/how/when the forum discussion started. As for migration, I'm sure Dr. Hipp will be a reasonable decision with the input he's been provided. Ultimately, though, the best way to test the feature out is to eat your own dog food. > > > >> br/joerg ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 02.08.18 17:33 , Jungle Boogie wrote: > On Thu 02 Aug 2018 11:02 AM, joerg van den hoff wrote: >> On 02.08.18 10:38, Steve Landers wrote:> On 31 Jul 2018, 9:47 PM +0800, >> Richard Hipp , wrote: I am about ready to merge the forum-v2 branch into trunk. If there are any objections, voice them quickly. >>> >> >> I could easily envision a situation where the forum option would suit me >> fine for personal/small/modest projects where I also would actually _want_ >> to keep the whole communication with some colleagues as part of the project, >> and "foreign", bigger ones (fossil, tcl, sqlite, ...) where I most >> definitely would >> not be interested in doing that and also probably would prefer to use a >> mailing list acessed by a reasonable mail client that allows me to >> sort/delete/search/flag (and highlight unread) messages etc. more >> flexible/better (probably...) than what the forum functionality could >> reasonably provide. > > > > If folks will remember back just a couple months ago, this is kind of what > started this discussion. DRH shutdown the sqlite mailing list for a day or two > because of spam. During that time many folks disucssed forums, slack channels, > discord, irc, and of course, mailing lists. > > After the mailing list was patched, the discussion continued on about how > fossil, with a forum or some kind of email delivery system, could work better > with push/pull requests. Fossil bundles were discussed, but many folks still > wanted to see a github style pull request system with email notifications and > abilities to make comments within the fossil repo, aside from wikis, tech notes, > and tickets. Dr. Hipp quickly developed email notifications for commits to the > repo, and a few ways to store the emails. > > I enjoy mailing lists, having a copy of the mail and being able to reply from > mutt (which I'm doing now), but I think what's been implemented within fossil is > something we can all appreciate and find use of. A small project may not use > tickets, the wiki, or tech notes. That project probably won't have a mailing > list either. > Now there's another feature, for free, that they also may not use - a forum. from DRH's mail of july 31: "The intent is to replace this mailing list, as well as various other mailing lists (fossil-users, sqlite-users, sqlite-dev, sqlite-announce) with the new forum feature. I hope to shut down the mailing lists and bring the forums all live within about a week. So if you have concerns, voice them soon." that's it: the concern is not that there will be "another feature" (although: whether the forum feature is a desirable one, depends on circumstances/taste and whether "pollution" of the actual repo (and also the working copy) with the forum archive/db can be avoided if the user is not interested in carrying the forum archive around. IIRC, the forum content is going to reside in a separate db, which sure will help, but I actually would prefer if that db does not materialize in my checkout without a means/setting to prevent just that (or to empty it...). the specific _concern_ here is the contemplated shutdown of this mailing list and mandatory(!) migration of all questions/discussions to the planned/upcoming fossil-scm forum. if that's what going to happen: so be it. but I would prefer otherwise. > >> br/joerg > > > > Just my opinion on this subject. Please refer to the mailing list archive for a > more accurate account for the discussion, but this is how I remember it > happening/taking place. > ___ > fossil-users mailing list > fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org > http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users > ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Thu 02 Aug 2018 11:02 AM, joerg van den hoff wrote: > On 02.08.18 10:38, Steve Landers wrote:> On 31 Jul 2018, 9:47 PM +0800, > Richard Hipp , wrote: > >> I am about ready to merge the forum-v2 branch into trunk. If there > >> are any objections, voice them quickly. > > > > I could easily envision a situation where the forum option would suit me > fine for personal/small/modest projects where I also would actually _want_ > to keep the whole communication with some colleagues as part of the project, > and "foreign", bigger ones (fossil, tcl, sqlite, ...) where I most > definitely would > not be interested in doing that and also probably would prefer to use a > mailing list acessed by a reasonable mail client that allows me to > sort/delete/search/flag (and highlight unread) messages etc. more > flexible/better (probably...) than what the forum functionality could > reasonably provide. If folks will remember back just a couple months ago, this is kind of what started this discussion. DRH shutdown the sqlite mailing list for a day or two because of spam. During that time many folks disucssed forums, slack channels, discord, irc, and of course, mailing lists. After the mailing list was patched, the discussion continued on about how fossil, with a forum or some kind of email delivery system, could work better with push/pull requests. Fossil bundles were discussed, but many folks still wanted to see a github style pull request system with email notifications and abilities to make comments within the fossil repo, aside from wikis, tech notes, and tickets. Dr. Hipp quickly developed email notifications for commits to the repo, and a few ways to store the emails. I enjoy mailing lists, having a copy of the mail and being able to reply from mutt (which I'm doing now), but I think what's been implemented within fossil is something we can all appreciate and find use of. A small project may not use tickets, the wiki, or tech notes. That project probably won't have a mailing list either. Now there's another feature, for free, that they also may not use - a forum. > br/joerg Just my opinion on this subject. Please refer to the mailing list archive for a more accurate account for the discussion, but this is how I remember it happening/taking place. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
[Default] On Thu, 2 Aug 2018 08:57:44 +, Pietro Cerutti wrote: >> * Email notification is available for new forum posts. Currently, >> the alert emails contain a very brief synopsis of the post - >> essentially just the title. This can be enhanced later to provide the >> complete text of the post, if that is seen as desirable. > > This is a step forwards in making web content pushed to users. > > Send out the whole content of a post, and you'll have a mailing-list. > Devise a mechanism to allow replying to such an email and sync it with > the forum, and you'll have made a gian leap forwards in dismantling the > web/email barricade. Instead of an email reply, a link to the messge in the web forum so I can reply there would work for me. Just one step extra: forum signon. -- Regards, Kees Nuyt ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Logout/PW/Email UX fix
Warren Young: > I’d then like to see /login change to something more generic like > /user. If someone depends on the existing name as an API, a /login > alias could be added, either in code or via the existing URL aliasing > feature. It's possible (and very convenient) to have a direct logout link: http://example.com/cgi-bin/fossil.cgi/repository/login?out Or, from (unversioned) wiki pages (with the Fossil Wiki markup flavor): [/login?out | Logout] I think this could also work for the Page Header edited through the Customize Skin interface. --Florian ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
As far as I remember it's not possible to delete a user account in Fossil. We used to have a forum here with 65,000+ members and sometimes hundreds of fake users registering each day (not robots, humans who completed the captcha), so having to deal with that kind of thing with fossil sounds scary if you cannot delete content and users. I didn't read anything about the ability to plug in an antispam into that forum, or any kind of rate-limiting either? I'm also against the closure of this mailing list. I can't check out every web forum out there every now and then, especially if they can't keep track of what messages I've read or not and what threads I've subscribed to. But if the forum becomes the only place to discussion fossil it would at least require the ability to subscribe to it by email and get all the messages in your mailbox, including their full contents. All in all, it is also a nice feature to have in Fossil but I think it doesn't seem ready for real-world use yet. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] CMake project for Fossil development using IDE [branch: cmake-ide]
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 12:59 PM Artur Shepilko wrote: > The rationale is to leverage the usual IDE conveninces such as code > browsing, auto-complete, visual debugger etc. Also, having a Fossil > source control plugin helps navigating the changes. > One forewarning about code browsing: the build process filters the files under src/, copying them to bld/, which means that if you accidentally browse (via "symbol-following" features) into bld/*.c and start editing, any changes will be lost the next time you build. Been there, done that. Also, many C files under src/ use custom markup (lines starting with @) which will confuse most C editors (any which do syntax highlighting). That's only "cosmetic confusion", though - it doesn't break anything. -- - stephan beal http://wanderinghorse.net/home/stephan/ "Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed byproduct of those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do." -- Bigby Wolf ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
[fossil-users] CMake project for Fossil development using IDE [branch: cmake-ide]
For anyone interested in using IDE for developing or exploring the Fossil code -- I just pushed a CMake project that handles the Fossil build [http://fossil-scm.org/index.html/timeline?r=cmake-ide]. In case you wonder, the build is done via CMake `ExternalProject_Add()`. So, basically, it kind of wraps the current autosetup-based Fossil build without duplicating the dependencies. It was also possible to unify the current Linux and Windows (MSVC) scripts. The rationale is to leverage the usual IDE conveninces such as code browsing, auto-complete, visual debugger etc. Also, having a Fossil source control plugin helps navigating the changes. CMake project can be generated into Makefiles or native projects for some IDEs. Most major C/C++ IDEs handle CMake one way or another. So far I tested building CMake Fossil with QtCreator, Code::Blocks, Eclipse CDT, and VSCode -- basically free and open source IDEs. Also I know that CLion has a good CMake support, and recently VisualStudio promoted better CMake integration, though I didn't test their native support. I used Makefiles generators with the IDEs that I tested, both on Linux and Windows. The Fossil MSVC build now can be also done out-of-source. IDE:: QtCreator => opens CMakeLists.txt directly Code::Blocks=> cmake .. -G"CodeBlocks - Unix Makefiles" VSCode => opens CMakeLists.txt (needs CMakeTools extension) Eclipse CDT => cmake .. -G"Eclipse CDT4 - Unix Makefiles" BTW, It appears that Eclipse CDT can already import a __configured__ autosetup-based Fossil project AS IS (import Exisitng C/C++ Makefiles Project) ! With a couple of additional settings for includes and sources, all of the IDE features are usable. Nice to know. I mostly use this CMake project from QtCreator, I'm also using a Fossil version control plugin. Of course, cmake build can also be done from the command-line as usual: - cd fossil mkdir build cd build Linux:: cmake .. -G"Unix Makefiles" -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release (OR Debug) make MSVC:: cmake .. -G"NMake Makefiles" -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Release (OR Debug) nmake cd bin fossil - Additional parameters may be passed on cmake call via vars: -DFOSSIL_CONFIGURE="", -DFOSSIL_BUILD="", -DFOSSIL_TEST="" Hope this would be useful to fellow Fossil developers. Please let me know of your experinces and ideas. If this makes sense, I may try to write up some Fossil wiki page with detailed instructions on how to set up the Fossil project development in IDE. Artur Shepilko ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 10:57 AM Pietro Cerutti wrote: > On Jul 31 2018, 13:47 UTC, Richard Hipp wrote: > >I am about ready to merge the forum-v2 branch into trunk. If there > >are any objections, voice them quickly. > > >* Email notification is available for new forum posts. > > Send out the whole content of a post, and you'll have a mailing-list. > Well, sure. But mail users will likely quote and reply in-line, to provide context. While forum users have the specific message they reply to just above, so are more likely not to quote or attribute prev poster, since it's right there above. So it's equivalent to top-posting IMHO, something frowned upon in MLs... > Devise a mechanism to allow replying to such an email and sync it with > the forum, and you'll have made a gian leap forwards in dismantling the > web/email barricade. > Agreed. But with the (big IMHO) caveat expressed above... --DD ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 02.08.18 10:38, Steve Landers wrote:> On 31 Jul 2018, 9:47 PM +0800, Richard Hipp , wrote: >> I am about ready to merge the forum-v2 branch into trunk. If there >> are any objections, voice them quickly. > > An observation (not a criticism) is that (at its current state of development) the forum does not work too well on mobile devices. And so IMO it isn’t yet a replacement for the mailing list. >> Steve > having not followed the development/discussion too closely, admittedly, but regarding "forum vs. mailing list" for the fossil project itself (and in view of a couple of other comments having some misgivings regarding replacement of email by forum which I share) I would argue for running them in parallel for the foreseeable future so people can vote with their feet (or rather fingers/keyboards) what makes more sense to them for communication: mailing list or forum. I could easily envision a situation where the forum option would suit me fine for personal/small/modest projects where I also would actually _want_ to keep the whole communication with some colleagues as part of the project, and "foreign", bigger ones (fossil, tcl, sqlite, ...) where I most definitely would not be interested in doing that and also probably would prefer to use a mailing list acessed by a reasonable mail client that allows me to sort/delete/search/flag (and highlight unread) messages etc. more flexible/better (probably...) than what the forum functionality could reasonably provide. br/joerg ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On Jul 31 2018, 13:47 UTC, Richard Hipp wrote: I am about ready to merge the forum-v2 branch into trunk. If there are any objections, voice them quickly. The fundamental difference between email and web content, is that emails are delivered to me, and once they are, they are mine. I can store them, move them around, modify them as I like to apply tags and labels, to keep them organized and in line with my mindset and workflow. They are easy to access (IMAP) from many different places and different devices, easy to search, and standard. Web content is the negation of nearly everything above: it never "belongs" to me, and as a consequence I can not manage it as my own expect for a few basic things like saving the html file offline, printing it, or bookmarking a particular page. Email is pushed to me, while web content is something I need to go and pull. And the location where I go and pull might change over time. And content itself might change over time (although this doesn't often happen in fossil). * Email notification is available for new forum posts. Currently, the alert emails contain a very brief synopsis of the post - essentially just the title. This can be enhanced later to provide the complete text of the post, if that is seen as desirable. This is a step forwards in making web content pushed to users. Send out the whole content of a post, and you'll have a mailing-list. Devise a mechanism to allow replying to such an email and sync it with the forum, and you'll have made a gian leap forwards in dismantling the web/email barricade. I would love to see that. -- Pietro Cerutti signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 31 Jul 2018, 9:47 PM +0800, Richard Hipp , wrote: > I am about ready to merge the forum-v2 branch into trunk. If there > are any objections, voice them quickly. An observation (not a criticism) is that (at its current state of development) the forum does not work too well on mobile devices. And so IMO it isn’t yet a replacement for the mailing list. Steve ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] [fossil-dev] About to merge the forum-v2 branch
On 01.08.18 23:43, John P. Rouillard wrote: Hi all: In message <23ebb036-9e71-4e02-b496-1361e3852...@etr-usa.com>, Warren Young writes: On Jul 31, 2018, at 7:47 AM, Richard Hipp wrote: The intent is to replace this mailing list Are you also going to import all the old content, so that people can clone the forum repo — assuming you still plan to keep the forum and code as separate repos — and get a locally-searchable archive? According to the comment above, it looks like the forum will be a separate fossil instance from the source code. I must have missed that if it was stated. Since I clone the fossil repo to my RasPI I am really not interested in cloning the forum/mailing list along with the source code. I throw away 99+% of the traffic on the mailing list after reading it. I don't really want to have to keep all of that on disk. A method that allows syncing without forum artifacts or a command to purge forum artifacts would be helpful. This would allow clones to not download or not permanently store possibly large forum discussions in their repo. +1 Have a great day. -- -- rouilj John Rouillard === My employers don't acknowledge my existence much less my opinions. ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
Re: [fossil-users] Logout/PW/Email UX fix
On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 6:36 PM Warren Young wrote: > It's long bothered me that Fossil puts the password change feature on the > "Logout" screen, and that clicking "Logout" doesn't actually log you out. > This is not discoverable other than by accident. > > What’s brought this issue to a head for me is the new forum feature, where > now we also have the Email Alerts link on this page as well, which also has > nothing to do with logging out. > +1. Add to that handling of mail notifications settings (for the forum at least) is hidden in the page you get when you click that logout link. Quite un-intuitive IMHO. --DD ___ fossil-users mailing list fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org http://lists.fossil-scm.org:8080/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fossil-users
