Re: Those old book numbering blues

[Steve Rickaby]

I said...

I am using one autonumber thread to control stuff that needs to flow through a 
book. I just wanted to check that in this case, i.e. paragraph number threads 
not reset between chapters, there is no alternative to creating a separate 
n=0 paragraph clone for all the numbered paragraphs. Anyone know any good 
tricks?

FrameScript is not an option for this job, but the final template will be 
structured.

but I don't think I was being clear enough, so here goes again...

I have a series of numbering threads that run through a book, for figures, 
tables and so on, of the form 'thread id:$chapnum.n+' - a fairly normal 
situation. These need to restart for each chapter, to give 4.1, 4.2 etc or 
whatever. However, I have one numbering thread that I do *not* want to reset 
for each chapter.

As far as I know, the only way to do this is to reset the chapter-level 
numbering threads using a special 'thread id:$chapnum.n=1' (sorry, not 
n=0, as I originally posted) paragraph tag for the first instance of each 
respective numbering thread in each chapter. I'd like to avoid that, but cannot 
see how. That's what I was asking - is there some clever way of avoiding this 
tag duplication?

I'd like to find a solution that works in unstructured FrameMaker,  but I'm 
also interest in whether numbering thread resetting can be programmed into an 
EDD somehow. Afaik, if a separate 'thread id:$chapnum.n=1' para tag 
exists, that can be chosen automatically for the first instance of the 
respective enclosing element in its parent element (chapter). That doesn't get 
round the tag duplication, but at least it automates the number thread 
resetting.

I'm just trying to avoid 'tag explosion' here, to keep template maintenance 
within some sort of reasonable limits.
-- 
Steve
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Re: Migrating EDDs

[Steve Rickaby]

At 8:32 am -0500 16/12/05, Rick Quatro wrote:

No apologies necessary: that is what the list is for. Well, it's actually for 
complaints, gripes, etc., but FrameMaker questions are acceptable once in 
awhile.

Many thanks. And much appreciated it is too.

The best method depends on how different the structure is from one EDD to 
another. Here are some possible methods.

1) Import the new Element Definitions and then clean up the structure by hand. 
This could be fairly tedious if a lot of clean up is required. You could use 
FrameScript scripts to assist you with the clean up, and perhaps automate the 
whole process.

Well, it won't be me doing this, but I'd like to make the process as painless 
for my clients as possible.

I will be building the EDD, so I can at least attempt to make it the element 
definition as close to their existing EDDs as possible,

2) Save the document as XML and then use XSLT stylesheets to convert the XML 
so that it conforms to the new structure. Import the converted XML back into 
FrameMaker using the new EDD. If your structure is XML and you have a lot of 
documents, this may be the best approach. FrameMaker 7.2 for Windows (sorry) 
allows you to apply XSLT transformations on import or export, adding some 
automation to the process. Of course, you still have to write the appropriate 
XSLT stylesheets.

Client has FrameMaker for Windows, so this may be an option for them.

3) If your EDD uses paragraph and character formats to define formatting,

...it will, in most cases, do so...

 you could try removing the structure from (a copy of) the document. Then you 
 could use a Conversion Table to restructure the document according to the new 
 EDD. This may be a good approach because it would not require any tools 
 outside of FrameMaker.

Thanks, Rick.  I will pass all this on.
-- 
Steve
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Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Robert Kern]

All,

I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but 
is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file, 
but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table 
numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.


How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter 
and enter the first chapter?

How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate 
files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work 
around.


-bob

Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
919-933-2629 phone and fax


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Re: Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Steve Rickaby]

At 12:55 pm -0500 16/12/05, Robert Kern wrote:
I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but is 
currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file, but am 
uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table numbering and page 
numbering if things are in a single file.

How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter and 
enter the first chapter?
How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate files, but 
hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work around.

Robert - I think $chapnum is misleading you here. Afaik, this is only 
incremented at the book level. For single file, use the multiple field counter 
scheme that Roger Shuttleworth described for your 'chapters' and numbered 
paragraphs. Although it's more complex, there are few limits to what you can 
achieve with it. Just define the first counter field to be your 'chapter' 
number, and assign other counter fields as required for your other numbered 
objects.

Page numbering will just flow through your file. However, you will have force 
blank pages when a 'chapter' ends on a recto page. I can't think of a way of 
changing from Roman to Arabic page numbers within a single file though: others 
might be cleverer. Someone has probably been through this hoop before.

You are right, though: you'd make you life easier by unbundling the chapters 
into a book.
-- 
Steve
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RE: Apply Default Attribute Values

[Spreadbury, David]

 Rick,
I thought you could do this in the EDD, and you can, but it might depend
on the type of attribute. Search the Structure_Dev_Guide for default
attribute. I only got seven hits. Most of the hits are concerned with
the DTD, but there is a comment that keeps popping up In FrameMaker, a
default attribute value can only be specified in the EDD,... (on page
242, last line). Then there is a reference to page 176, where there is a
discussion on Default value. The discussion leads me to think graphics,
but in other hits, with the same comment, there is an example of a
labeled list where a default is applied (see page 229 in Translating
attributes).

So my gut feel is Yes you can define default attributes in the EDD, in
fact it is the only way you can.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
m] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:07 AM
To: framers@frameusers.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Apply Default Attribute Values

Hello Framers,

I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to set all
attributes to default values when the EDD is imported. I suspect that
the answer is no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a
FrameScript script. 
However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one.

Thanks in advance.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

The information contained in this message may be privileged
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RE: Apply Default Attribute Values

[Spreadbury, David]

Rick,
I thought you could do this in the EDD, and you can, but it might depend
on the type of attribute. Search the Structure_Dev_Guide for default
attribute. I only got seven hits. Most of the hits are concerned with
the DTD, but there is a comment that keeps popping up In FrameMaker, a
default attribute value can only be specified in the EDD,... (on page
242, last line). Then there is a reference to page 176, where there is a
discussion on Default value. The discussion leads me to think graphics,
but in other hits, with the same comment, there is an example of a
labeled list where a default is applied (see page 229 in Translating
attributes). 

So my gut feel is Yes you can define default attributes in the EDD, in
fact it is the only way you can.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
m] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:07 AM
To: framers@frameusers.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Apply Default Attribute Values

Hello Framers,

I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to set all
attributes to default values when the EDD is imported. I suspect that
the answer is no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a
FrameScript script. 
However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one.

Thanks in advance.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

The information contained in this message may be privileged
and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
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RE: Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Ridder, Fred]

No slick trick that I'm aware of, Bob.

If you need to change numbering format (roman vs. arabic vs. alpha), 
you need to have a file break at that point.

If you're using the $chapnum (and/or $volnum) system variable,
you must have a file break wherever that number needs to increment.

You can get around the second problem by redoing your numbering 
scheme to implement chapter numbering with a regular paragraph 
numbering counter (as we all had to do in pre-6.0 versions of 
FrameMaker).  But there's no workaround I can think of for the first 
issue.  

In our group, *every* FrameMaker book is built the same way from
a similar set of component files regardless of length.  Our books 
range from ~40 pages up to more than 600, but they are all assembled
the same way so that anybody who works with the book will be able 
to understand how the numbering is supposed to work when it comes 
time to publish.

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Staff Information Services Analyst
Intel
Parsippany, NJ



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Kern
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:56 PM
To: framers@frameusers.com
Subject: Numbering question on short books that are single files

All,

I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but

is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file,

but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table 
numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.

How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter

and enter the first chapter?
How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate 
files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work 
around.

-bob

Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
919-933-2629 phone and fax


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Copying master page layouts and graphics

[Stacie Knas]

I have a structured book with about 10 chapters.  I want the first
page of each chapter to use master page first.  I have created this
master page in the first chapter, as well as finessed that chapter's
right- and left-hand pages.  Is there a way besides manually copying
to apply these pages to all pertinent chapters?

The Complete Reference describes how to copy the mapping information
from master pages, but that doesn't help me.  I've tried, from the
book level, highlighting the pertinent chapters (with or without the
desired master pages chapter) and applying across the book, but even
when I brave saying OK to the warning message asking me if I'm sure I
want to do that, it doesn't seem to do anything.

I'm stuck.  There has to be a way to do this.  Any help mucho appreciated.

Stacie
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RE: Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Combs, Richard]

Robert Kern wrote: 

 I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple 
 chapters but is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to 
 keep it as a single file, but am uncertain how to apply 
 chapter-like chapter/figure/table numbering and page 
 numbering if things are in a single file.

Forget it. You could work around the pgf numbering issues (figures,
etc.), but there's no reasonable workaround for page numbering. A single
file will have pages numbered consecutively throughout. There's no way
to stop and restart page numbering, much less change the numbering
format. 

You're trying to work against one of FM's greatest strengths and the way
it's intended to be used. Doesn't your book need at least a table of
contents? 

There are no advantages and many disadvantages to having the entire book
in one file. That's true regardless of the book size. And 180 pages
isn't that small; I maintain several manuals that are under 100 pages,
and each is an FM book containing at least 6 or 8 files. 

Separate each chapter into its own file. Create a book file and put all
the chapters into it. Add a title page file, the appropriate generated
list files (TOC, LOF, etc.), preface, etc. Manage the numbering using
the book numbering tools (chapnum variable, file-by-file page numbering
settings, etc.). Life will be a lot simpler. 

Or, if you really want just one file -- use Word. ;-) 

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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RE: Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Kay Ethier, Sales]

Hi Bob:

You don't have to break the book into separate chapters for
chapter/appendix/figure/table numbering.  That can be handled by setting up
the paragraph formats to work together.  Some examples are online at
http://www.travelthepath.com/autonum.html .

The only have to reason for breaking into separate files is that you can't
have roman and arabic page numbers within a single file.

If you want me to walk you through some of the paragraph numbering, or
breaking into 2 files in a small book, give me a call.  

Hope all is going well with you,

.K.




-Original Message-
From: Robert Kern

All,

I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but 
is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file, 
but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table 
numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.

How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter 
and enter the first chapter?
How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate 
files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work 
around.

-bob

Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
919-933-2629 phone and fax


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RE: Copying master page layouts and graphics

[Lester C. Smalley]

Stacie,

If I read your message correctly, you have copied the updated master
pages from one file to the rest by selecting the other chapters in the
book window and then using the File  Import  Formats dialog to copy
the Page Layouts to all the other files.

But what is not happening is having the specific first page applied to
the individual chapters. I don't think this is possible automatically
without some sort of scripting tool (e.g. FrameScript under windows or
AppleScript on a Mac) but it is very easy. 

You'll have to open each chapter individually, and use the Format  Page
Layout  Master Page Usage dialog to set the first page of the file to
use the custom first master page design.  This command does not appear
if the book is the active window - you must be in a document file.

On Friday, December 16, 2005 01:35 PM, Stacie Knas wrote:

| I have a structured book with about 10 chapters.  I want the 
| first page of each chapter to use master page first.  I 
| have created this master page in the first chapter, as well 
| as finessed that chapter's right- and left-hand pages.
| Is there a way besides manually copying to apply these pages
| to all pertinent chapters?
| 
| The Complete Reference describes how to copy the mapping 
| information from master pages, but that doesn't help me.  
| I've tried, from the book level, highlighting the pertinent 
| chapters (with or without the desired master pages chapter) 
| and applying across the book, but even when I brave saying OK 
| to the warning message asking me if I'm sure I want to do 
| that, it doesn't seem to do anything.
| 
| I'm stuck.  There has to be a way to do this.  Any help mucho 
| appreciated.
| 
| Stacie

I hope this helps.

- Lester 
---
 Lester C. Smalley   Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com 
 Information Consultants, Inc.   Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712  
 Yorklyn, DE  19736Web: www.infocon.com 
---
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Re: Apply Default Attribute Values

[Scott Prentice]

You can define a default value for an attribute, but as far as I know 
the process of importing an EDD won't change an attribute value from one 
thing to another. The default value is just the value of the attribute 
if it has no other value applied.


I guess the question is, in the statement .. set all attributes to 
default values when the EDD is imported .. does default refer to the 
FrameMaker concept of default (empty), or do you mean some actual 
default value ?


Unless I'm misunderstanding the original question, I think you'll have 
to go with the script, Rick.


...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892



Spreadbury, David wrote:


Rick,
I thought you could do this in the EDD, and you can, but it might depend
on the type of attribute. Search the Structure_Dev_Guide for default
attribute. I only got seven hits. Most of the hits are concerned with
the DTD, but there is a comment that keeps popping up In FrameMaker, a
default attribute value can only be specified in the EDD,... (on page
242, last line). Then there is a reference to page 176, where there is a
discussion on Default value. The discussion leads me to think graphics,
but in other hits, with the same comment, there is an example of a
labeled list where a default is applied (see page 229 in Translating
attributes).

So my gut feel is Yes you can define default attributes in the EDD, in
fact it is the only way you can.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
m] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:07 AM
To: framers@frameusers.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Apply Default Attribute Values

Hello Framers,

I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to set all
attributes to default values when the EDD is imported. I suspect that
the answer is no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a
FrameScript script. 
However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one.


Thanks in advance.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

The information contained in this message may be privileged
and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs


 



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Re: Apply Default Attribute Values

[Scott Prentice]

Hi Rick...

You're right .. these default values that you can define in the EDD, 
are not as useful as one might hope. They aren't exported to XML and 
they don't seem to have much purpose. However, the FDK (and I believe 
the EDD itself) can read the default as a value. So a plugin or 
structured application may be set up to process all widget elements with 
the enabled attribute set to on .. if on is the default, those 
elements would be processed if the enabled attribute has the explicit 
value of on or has no value (no value).


It would be nice if there was some read/write rule that allowed you to 
enable the exporting of default values, of some way to make them more 
real ..


Oh well.

...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892



Rick Quatro wrote:


Hi Scott,

I am not looking to change the attribute value from one thing to 
another. Here is the scenario: when you set a default value for 
attribute in the EDD, it will initially show in the structure view as 
italic. But if you double-click on the attribute, the attribute will 
show as no value in the Attribute window. And, from what I can tell, 
when you save the file as XML, these default attribute values don't 
export. You have to explicitly set the value in order for them to 
export. You can tell when an attribute value has been set, because 
they no longer display as italic in the structure view.


After experimenting, I can use FrameScript to explicitly set these 
default attribute values so that they export to XML.


But it does make me wonder: why have a default value for attributes 
when it doesn't seem to register unless you explicitly set it?


Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

You can define a default value for an attribute, but as far as I know 
the process of importing an EDD won't change an attribute value from 
one thing to another. The default value is just the value of the 
attribute if it has no other value applied.


I guess the question is, in the statement .. set all attributes to 
default values when the EDD is imported .. does default refer to 
the FrameMaker concept of default (empty), or do you mean some 
actual default value ?


Unless I'm misunderstanding the original question, I think you'll 
have to go with the script, Rick.


...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892




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Those old book numbering blues

[hedley.fin...@myob.com]

Steve:

> I am using one autonumber thread to control stuff that needs to flow
> through a book. I just wanted to check that in this case, i.e.
> paragraph number threads not reset between chapters, there is no
> alternative to creating a separate 

Those old book numbering blues

[Steve Rickaby]

I said...

>I am using one autonumber thread to control stuff that needs to flow through a 
>book. I just wanted to check that in this case, i.e. paragraph number threads 
>not reset between chapters, there is no alternative to creating a separate 

Those old book numbering blues

[Steve Rickaby]

At 8:57 am +1100 16/12/05, hedley.finger at myob.com wrote:

>Then set your chapter title numbering as follows:
>
>Chapter\ <$chapnum>< >< =0>< =0>< =0>< =0>< =0>
>
>The < > placeholder after <$chapnum> is the one you want to continue
>through the book. The < =0> resetters are for the numbering you want to 
>restart for each chapter, e.g. figure, table, equation numbering, etc.  Is 
>this what you want?

I'm not sure. How would this reset named numbering threads, such as 
'T:<$chapnum>.'?
-- 
Steve

Framemaker to Apple's Pages

[Shlomo Perets]

Paul Findon wrote:

 > ... Apple is still using FrameMaker 6.0 in the Classic environment to
 > produce its own user guides  

That's true -- apparently using a template with multiple flows that cause 
bookmark ordering problems (see http://microtype.com/hmmms.html#0504 which 
refers to the Pages and Keynote 2 user guides).


Shlomo Perets

MicroType, http://www.microtype.com * ToolbarPlus Express for FrameMaker
FrameMaker/Acrobat training & consulting * FrameMaker-to-Acrobat 
TimeSavers/Assistants
Template Design, Single Sourcing, FM-to-PDF & Technical Indexing seminars

Apply Default Attribute Values

[Rick Quatro]

Hello Framers,

I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to "set all attributes 
to default values when the EDD is imported". I suspect that the answer is 
no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a FrameScript script. 
However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one. 
Thanks in advance.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

Migrating EDDs

[Steve Rickaby]

Group: my apologies for hitting the list so hard just recently. I'm under 
pressure to complete some work before the holiday break and it's taking me into 
unknown territory.

I know that FrameMaker supports conversion rules tables for converting 
unstructured documents into structured. But what about the process of migrating 
from one EDD to another? I can't find anything about this in any written 
documentation I have. Specifically:

. Is there a 'best practise' method? 

. Are there any pitfalls to watch out for? 

. What is involved other than importing a new set of structured definitions and 
then manually tidying up? 

. Are there any third-party tools that can help with the conversion process?

Many thanks
-- 
Steve

Migrating EDDs

[Steve Rickaby]

At 8:32 am -0500 16/12/05, Rick Quatro wrote:

>No apologies necessary: that is what the list is for. Well, it's actually for 
>complaints, gripes, etc., but FrameMaker questions are acceptable once in 
>awhile.

Many thanks. And much appreciated it is too.

>The best method depends on how different the structure is from one EDD to 
>another. Here are some possible methods.
>
>1) Import the new Element Definitions and then clean up the structure by hand. 
>This could be fairly tedious if a lot of clean up is required. You could use 
>FrameScript scripts to assist you with the clean up, and perhaps automate the 
>whole process.

Well, it won't be me doing this, but I'd like to make the process as painless 
for my clients as possible.

I will be building the EDD, so I can at least attempt to make it the element 
definition as close to their existing EDDs as possible,

>2) Save the document as XML and then use XSLT stylesheets to convert the XML 
>so that it conforms to the new structure. Import the converted XML back into 
>FrameMaker using the new EDD. If your structure is XML and you have a lot of 
>documents, this may be the best approach. FrameMaker 7.2 for Windows (sorry) 
>allows you to apply XSLT transformations on import or export, adding some 
>automation to the process. Of course, you still have to write the appropriate 
>XSLT stylesheets.

Client has FrameMaker for Windows, so this may be an option for them.

>3) If your EDD uses paragraph and character formats to define formatting,

...it will, in most cases, do so...

> you could try removing the structure from (a copy of) the document. Then you 
> could use a Conversion Table to restructure the document according to the new 
> EDD. This may be a good approach because it would not require any tools 
> outside of FrameMaker.

Thanks, Rick.  I will pass all this on.
-- 
Steve

Migrating EDDs

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Steve,

No apologies necessary: that is what the list is for. Well, it's actually 
for complaints, gripes, etc., but FrameMaker questions are acceptable once 
in awhile.

The best method depends on how different the structure is from one EDD to 
another. Here are some possible methods.

1) Import the new Element Definitions and then clean up the structure by 
hand. This could be fairly tedious if a lot of clean up is required. You 
could use FrameScript scripts to assist you with the clean up, and perhaps 
automate the whole process.

2) Save the document as XML and then use XSLT stylesheets to convert the XML 
so that it conforms to the new structure. Import the converted XML back into 
FrameMaker using the new EDD. If your structure is XML and you have a lot of 
documents, this may be the best approach. FrameMaker 7.2 for Windows (sorry) 
allows you to apply XSLT transformations on import or export, adding some 
automation to the process. Of course, you still have to write the 
appropriate XSLT stylesheets.

3) If your EDD uses paragraph and character formats to define formatting, 
you could try removing the structure from (a copy of) the document. Then you 
could use a Conversion Table to restructure the document according to the 
new EDD. This may be a good approach because it would not require any tools 
outside of FrameMaker.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


> Group: my apologies for hitting the list so hard just recently. I'm under 
> pressure to complete some work before the holiday break and it's taking me 
> into unknown territory.
>
> I know that FrameMaker supports conversion rules tables for converting 
> unstructured documents into structured. But what about the process of 
> migrating from one EDD to another? I can't find anything about this in any 
> written documentation I have. Specifically:
>
> . Is there a 'best practise' method?
>
> . Are there any pitfalls to watch out for?
>
> . What is involved other than importing a new set of structured 
> definitions and then manually tidying up?
>
> . Are there any third-party tools that can help with the conversion 
> process?
>
> Many thanks
> -- 
> Steve
> ___

Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Robert Kern]

All,

I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but 
is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file, 
but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table 
numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.

How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter 
and enter the first chapter?
How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate 
files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work 
around.

-bob

Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
bob at technicalpublishing.com
919-933-2629 phone and fax


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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believed to be clean.

Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Steve Rickaby]

At 12:55 pm -0500 16/12/05, Robert Kern wrote:
>I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but is 
>currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file, but am 
>uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table numbering and page 
>numbering if things are in a single file.
>
>How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter and 
>enter the first chapter?
>How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?
>
>Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate files, but 
>hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work around.

Robert - I think $chapnum is misleading you here. Afaik, this is only 
incremented at the book level. For single file, use the multiple field counter 
scheme that Roger Shuttleworth described for your 'chapters' and numbered 
paragraphs. Although it's more complex, there are few limits to what you can 
achieve with it. Just define the first counter field to be your 'chapter' 
number, and assign other counter fields as required for your other numbered 
objects.

Page numbering will just flow through your file. However, you will have force 
blank pages when a 'chapter' ends on a recto page. I can't think of a way of 
changing from Roman to Arabic page numbers within a single file though: others 
might be cleverer. Someone has probably been through this hoop before.

You are right, though: you'd make you life easier by unbundling the chapters 
into a book.
-- 
Steve

Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Art Campbell]

As you point out, "the only good answer is to break the book into
separate chapters."

If you don't want to take an hour or so to do that, you could probably
spend a day or so kludging work-arounds to solve the problems you want
to solve. For instance, you could substitute a hand-crafted numbering
system that would function kind of like the built-in chapter and page
numbering markers (one tag/marker set for arabic; one for roman).

I think it'd be easier to take the time to do it right the first time,
rather than to spend more time later to fix the problems.

My $ .02.

Art


On 12/16/05, Robert Kern  wrote:
> All,
>
> I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but
> is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file,
> but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table
> numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.
>
> How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter
> and enter the first chapter?
> How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?
>
> Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate
> files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work
> around.
>
> -bob
>


--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Apply Default Attribute Values

[Spreadbury, David]

 Rick,
I thought you could do this in the EDD, and you can, but it might depend
on the type of attribute. Search the Structure_Dev_Guide for default
attribute. I only got seven hits. Most of the hits are concerned with
the DTD, but there is a comment that keeps popping up "In FrameMaker, a
default attribute value can only be specified in the EDD,..." (on page
242, last line). Then there is a reference to page 176, where there is a
discussion on Default value. The discussion leads me to think graphics,
but in other hits, with the same comment, there is an example of a
labeled list where a default is applied (see page 229 in Translating
attributes).

So my gut feel is Yes you can define default attributes in the EDD, in
fact it is the only way you can.

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+david.spreadbury=tellabs@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+david.spreadbury=tellabs.com at lists.frameusers.co
m] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:07 AM
To: framers at frameusers.com; framers at omsys.com
Subject: Apply Default Attribute Values

Hello Framers,

I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to "set all
attributes to default values when the EDD is imported". I suspect that
the answer is no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a
FrameScript script. 
However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one.

Thanks in advance.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

The information contained in this message may be privileged
and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
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please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
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Apply Default Attribute Values

[Spreadbury, David]

Rick,
I thought you could do this in the EDD, and you can, but it might depend
on the type of attribute. Search the Structure_Dev_Guide for default
attribute. I only got seven hits. Most of the hits are concerned with
the DTD, but there is a comment that keeps popping up "In FrameMaker, a
default attribute value can only be specified in the EDD,..." (on page
242, last line). Then there is a reference to page 176, where there is a
discussion on Default value. The discussion leads me to think graphics,
but in other hits, with the same comment, there is an example of a
labeled list where a default is applied (see page 229 in Translating
attributes). 

So my gut feel is Yes you can define default attributes in the EDD, in
fact it is the only way you can.

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+david.spreadbury=tellabs@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+david.spreadbury=tellabs.com at lists.frameusers.co
m] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:07 AM
To: framers at frameusers.com; framers at omsys.com
Subject: Apply Default Attribute Values

Hello Framers,

I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to "set all
attributes to default values when the EDD is imported". I suspect that
the answer is no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a
FrameScript script. 
However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one.

Thanks in advance.

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com

The information contained in this message may be privileged
and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs

Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Ridder, Fred]

No slick trick that I'm aware of, Bob.

If you need to change numbering format (roman vs. arabic vs. alpha), 
you need to have a file break at that point.

If you're using the $chapnum (and/or $volnum) system variable,
you must have a file break wherever that number needs to increment.

You can get around the second problem by redoing your numbering 
scheme to implement chapter numbering with a regular paragraph 
numbering counter (as we all had to do in pre-6.0 versions of 
FrameMaker).  But there's no workaround I can think of for the first 
issue.  

In our group, *every* FrameMaker book is built the same way from
a similar set of component files regardless of length.  Our books 
range from ~40 pages up to more than 600, but they are all assembled
the same way so that anybody who works with the book will be able 
to understand how the numbering is supposed to work when it comes 
time to publish.

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com)
Staff Information Services Analyst
Intel
Parsippany, NJ



-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+fred.ridder=intel.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Kern
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:56 PM
To: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Numbering question on short books that are single files

All,

I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but

is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file,

but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table 
numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.

How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter

and enter the first chapter?
How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate 
files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work 
around.

-bob

Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
bob at technicalpublishing.com
919-933-2629 phone and fax


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Copying master page layouts and graphics

[Stacie Knas]

I have a structured book with about 10 chapters.  I want the first
page of each chapter to use master page "first".  I have created this
master page in the first chapter, as well as finessed that chapter's
right- and left-hand pages.  Is there a way besides manually copying
to apply these pages to all pertinent chapters?

The "Complete Reference" describes how to copy the mapping information
from master pages, but that doesn't help me.  I've tried, from the
book level, highlighting the pertinent chapters (with or without the
desired master pages chapter) and applying across the book, but even
when I brave saying OK to the warning message asking me if I'm sure I
want to do that, it doesn't seem to do anything.

I'm stuck.  There has to be a way to do this.  Any help mucho appreciated.

Stacie

Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Combs, Richard]

Robert Kern wrote: 

> I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple 
> chapters but is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to 
> keep it as a single file, but am uncertain how to apply 
> chapter-like chapter/figure/table numbering and page 
> numbering if things are in a single file.

Forget it. You could work around the pgf numbering issues (figures,
etc.), but there's no reasonable workaround for page numbering. A single
file will have pages numbered consecutively throughout. There's no way
to stop and restart page numbering, much less change the numbering
format. 

You're trying to work against one of FM's greatest strengths and the way
it's intended to be used. Doesn't your book need at least a table of
contents? 

There are no advantages and many disadvantages to having the entire book
in one file. That's true regardless of the book size. And 180 pages
isn't that small; I maintain several manuals that are under 100 pages,
and each is an FM book containing at least 6 or 8 files. 

Separate each chapter into its own file. Create a book file and put all
the chapters into it. Add a title page file, the appropriate generated
list files (TOC, LOF, etc.), preface, etc. Manage the numbering using
the book numbering tools (chapnum variable, file-by-file page numbering
settings, etc.). Life will be a lot simpler. 

Or, if you really want just one file -- use Word. ;-) 

HTH!
Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Numbering question on short books that are single files

[Kay Ethier, Sales]

Hi Bob:

You don't have to break the book into separate chapters for
chapter/appendix/figure/table numbering.  That can be handled by setting up
the paragraph formats to work together.  Some examples are online at
http://www.travelthepath.com/autonum.html .

The only "have to" reason for breaking into separate files is that you can't
have roman and arabic page numbers within a single file.

If you want me to walk you through some of the paragraph numbering, or
breaking into 2 files in a small book, give me a call.  

Hope all is going well with you,

.K.




-Original Message-
From: Robert Kern

All,

I have a very short book (about 180 pages) that is multiple chapters but 
is currently a single Frame file.  I'd like to keep it as a single file, 
but am uncertain how to apply chapter-like chapter/figure/table 
numbering and page numbering if things are in a single file.

How would I go from roman to arabic numbering as I leave the from matter 
and enter the first chapter?
How would I increment the chapnum value at the start of each chapter?

Probably the only good answer is to break the book un into separate 
files, but hoping there might be a slick use of markers as an easy work 
around.

-bob

Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
bob at technicalpublishing.com
919-933-2629 phone and fax

Copying master page layouts and graphics

[Art Campbell]

Select all files in the book but your first chapter and use File >
Import Formats.
Select page layouts (and whatever else you want to import) and go for
it. That gets the master pages into each chapter file.

However, if the recipient pages have not been set up to use "first,"
after the import, you will have to open each one to the first page and
do Format > Page Layout > Master Page Usage > "first" in order to have
them recognize the new master page.

Art


On 12/16/05, Stacie Knas  wrote:
> I have a structured book with about 10 chapters.  I want the first
> page of each chapter to use master page "first".  I have created this
> master page in the first chapter, as well as finessed that chapter's
> right- and left-hand pages.  Is there a way besides manually copying
> to apply these pages to all pertinent chapters?
>
> The "Complete Reference" describes how to copy the mapping information
> from master pages, but that doesn't help me.  I've tried, from the
> book level, highlighting the pertinent chapters (with or without the
> desired master pages chapter) and applying across the book, but even
> when I brave saying OK to the warning message asking me if I'm sure I
> want to do that, it doesn't seem to do anything.
>
> I'm stuck.  There has to be a way to do this.  Any help mucho appreciated.


--
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Apply Default Attribute Values

[Scott Prentice]

You can define a default value for an attribute, but as far as I know 
the process of importing an EDD won't change an attribute value from one 
thing to another. The "default" value is just the value of the attribute 
if it has no other value applied.

I guess the question is, in the statement .. "set all attributes to 
default values when the EDD is imported" .. does "default" refer to the 
FrameMaker concept of default (empty), or do you mean "some actual 
default value" ?

Unless I'm misunderstanding the original question, I think you'll have 
to go with the script, Rick.

...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892



Spreadbury, David wrote:

> Rick,
>I thought you could do this in the EDD, and you can, but it might depend
>on the type of attribute. Search the Structure_Dev_Guide for default
>attribute. I only got seven hits. Most of the hits are concerned with
>the DTD, but there is a comment that keeps popping up "In FrameMaker, a
>default attribute value can only be specified in the EDD,..." (on page
>242, last line). Then there is a reference to page 176, where there is a
>discussion on Default value. The discussion leads me to think graphics,
>but in other hits, with the same comment, there is an example of a
>labeled list where a default is applied (see page 229 in Translating
>attributes).
>
>So my gut feel is Yes you can define default attributes in the EDD, in
>fact it is the only way you can.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: framers-bounces+david.spreadbury=tellabs.com at lists.frameusers.com
>[mailto:framers-bounces+david.spreadbury=tellabs.com at lists.frameusers.co
>m] On Behalf Of Rick Quatro
>Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 7:07 AM
>To: framers at frameusers.com; framers at omsys.com
>Subject: Apply Default Attribute Values
>
>Hello Framers,
>
>I have a client that wants to know if it is possible to "set all
>attributes to default values when the EDD is imported". I suspect that
>the answer is no, but I am pretty sure that it can be done with a
>FrameScript script. 
>However, I don't want to propose a script if it can be done without one.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Rick Quatro
>Carmen Publishing
>585-659-8267
>www.frameexpert.com
>
>The information contained in this message may be privileged
>and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
>of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
>or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
>intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
>dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
>prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
>please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
>deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs
>
>
>  
>

Apply Default Attribute Values

[Scott Prentice]

Hi Rick...

You're right .. these "default" values that you can define in the EDD, 
are not as useful as one might hope. They aren't exported to XML and 
they don't seem to have much purpose. However, the FDK (and I believe 
the EDD itself) can read the default as a value. So a plugin or 
structured application may be set up to process all widget elements with 
the "enabled" attribute set to "on" .. if "on" is the "default", those 
elements would be processed if the "enabled" attribute has the explicit 
value of "on" or has no value ().

It would be nice if there was some read/write rule that allowed you to 
enable the exporting of "default" values, of some way to make them more 
real ..

Oh well.

...scott

Scott Prentice
Leximation, Inc.
www.leximation.com
+1.415.485.1892



Rick Quatro wrote:

> Hi Scott,
>
> I am not looking to change the attribute value from one thing to 
> another. Here is the scenario: when you set a default value for 
> attribute in the EDD, it will initially show in the structure view as 
> italic. But if you double-click on the attribute, the attribute will 
> show as  in the Attribute window. And, from what I can tell, 
> when you save the file as XML, these default attribute values don't 
> export. You have to explicitly set the value in order for them to 
> export. You can tell when an attribute value has been set, because 
> they no longer display as italic in the structure view.
>
> After experimenting, I can use FrameScript to explicitly set these 
> default attribute values so that they export to XML.
>
> But it does make me wonder: why have a "default" value for attributes 
> when it doesn't seem to "register" unless you explicitly set it?
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing
> 585-659-8267
> www.frameexpert.com
>
>> You can define a default value for an attribute, but as far as I know 
>> the process of importing an EDD won't change an attribute value from 
>> one thing to another. The "default" value is just the value of the 
>> attribute if it has no other value applied.
>>
>> I guess the question is, in the statement .. "set all attributes to 
>> default values when the EDD is imported" .. does "default" refer to 
>> the FrameMaker concept of default (empty), or do you mean "some 
>> actual default value" ?
>>
>> Unless I'm misunderstanding the original question, I think you'll 
>> have to go with the script, Rick.
>>
>> ...scott
>>
>> Scott Prentice
>> Leximation, Inc.
>> www.leximation.com
>> +1.415.485.1892
>
>
>
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