[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 OEM PC

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello Everybody,

When creating the FreeDOS 1.2 installer, this subject was one of the things 
that was in the back of my mind. All of those computers, ones that ship with 
their only installed operating system being FreeDOS. Yes, I do realize that 
mostly they are sold outside of the United States as low cost options. And, 
users will only be installing a copy of Windows or Linux onto them. But, I 
figured there may be some people that get them to run FreeDOS. So, I kept that 
in mind while designing how the installer handles certain things. Nearly 
always, attempting to maintain an OEM PC compatibility and extensibility. I 
knew it should work. But, I was very busy prior to the 1.2 release and never 
got around to testing it. Immediately after the release, I wanted to relax a 
bit. 

Anyhow, I didn’t get around to testing it until just now. LOL! It is AWESOME!

So, here is the quick way I made an OEM PC style setup with FreeDOS 1.2.

Create a USB stick using FD12FULL.img
Boot that stick on the PC.
When the installer launches, select language then Return to DOS.
run “FDISK 2”
Create your FreeDOS Recovery Partition. I used 1024MB
Exit FDISK and reboot.
When the installer launches again, select language then Return to DOS.
run “format D: /q/u/v:FD-RECOVERY"
run “XCOPY /E C:\*.* D:”
run “sys D:”
run “FDISK 2”
Activate the Recovery Partition on D:.
Create the users big main FreeDOS partition. (Do not activate it)
Shutdown and clone the drive a couple million times.

Once done, it has a couple really cool effects.

The first time the PC is booted, the user gets to install FreeDOS. They even 
get to pick their language settings their install. Afterwards, when the system 
reboots, it boots into their install. Drive C: is that big User partition and 
D: is the Recovery Partition. The Recovery Partition has all of the packages 
released with 1.2. So, FDIMPLES can be used to install and remove more packages 
with inserting additional media. Also, if they choose, an OEM vendor could even 
add additional packages for networking and sound that could be automatically 
installed. 

The was only one issue of note that I found. If the user wishes to reinstall 
over their existing install using the recovery partition, they need to change 
their active partition using FDISK to the recovery partition. Otherwise, sys 
file transfer fails. It actually has to do with force updating the MBR code and 
not the simple sys transfer. This problem can also be avoided by running FDI in 
Advanced mode and “Not transferring the system files”. But, it is easier to 
just re-activate the Recovery Partition and reboot.

:-)



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 official release!

[Alain Mouette]

Thank you, all of you :)


On 25-12-2016 13:16, Jim Hall wrote:
I am proud to announce the release of FreeDOS 1.2! You can download it 
from our website at www.freedos.org .


The latest official FreeDOS distribution is the result of the hard 
work from many people. Thanks to everyone in the FreeDOS Project for 
their work towards this new release! There are too many of you to 
recognize individually, but you have all helped enormously. Thank you!


DOS is one of the oldest PC operating systems. FreeDOS has an equally 
long history. We started the FreeDOS Project in 1994 to create a free, 
open source software version of DOS. We made our first Alpha release 
in September 1994, and our first Beta in March 1998. In September 
2006, we finally released FreeDOS 1.0. And in January 2012, we 
released FreeDOS 1.1.


The new FreeDOS 1.2 is mostly an incremental change over FreeDOS 1.1, 
although you'll find a few nice surprises.


FreeDOS 1.2 now makes it easier to connect to a network. We include a 
revamped network setup and useful network applications to get you 
online. Try the Dillo web browser for a graphical web experience, or 
the Links web browser if you want just the text.


If you're interested in updated functionality, you can find new tools 
under the Utilities section. For example, FreeDOS 1.2 provides several 
image enhancement programs like Pngcrush and Gifsicle. Or you can 
enhance the DOS command line with Unix-like utilities like sed, grep, 
tee, head, and bc.


Many people use FreeDOS to play games, and FreeDOS 1.2 now includes 
several open source games for you to try. We include Freedoom and Boom 
for classic first-person shooter fans. Arcade-style game fans will 
like Wing, a familiar space shooter game, or Kiloblaster, a fast-paced 
arcade shooter. Classic gamers will want to try Nethack, Invaders, 
Sudoku, and Tetris. For those who want to play their own classic DOS 
games, we provide other tools like Slowdown, so you can run certain 
older games on a fast modern computer.


But I think the first thing you'll notice about FreeDOS 1.2 is the new 
installer! I wanted to make the install process an easy one, for new 
and experienced users alike. And we have that in the new FreeDOS 1.2 
installer, thanks to Jerome Shidel. If you are a new user, the 
installer makes it easy to install FreeDOS and get going with a few 
defaults. If you're an experienced DOS user, you can unlock the 
Advanced installer that lets you tweak the FreeDOS install to your 
preference.


I'm very excited for the new FreeDOS 1.2 distribution!


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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 official release!

[Jim Hall]

I am proud to announce the release of FreeDOS 1.2! You can download it from
our website at www.freedos.org.

The latest official FreeDOS distribution is the result of the hard work
from many people. Thanks to everyone in the FreeDOS Project for their work
towards this new release! There are too many of you to recognize
individually, but you have all helped enormously. Thank you!

DOS is one of the oldest PC operating systems. FreeDOS has an equally long
history. We started the FreeDOS Project in 1994 to create a free, open
source software version of DOS. We made our first Alpha release in
September 1994, and our first Beta in March 1998. In September 2006, we
finally released FreeDOS 1.0. And in January 2012, we released FreeDOS 1.1.

The new FreeDOS 1.2 is mostly an incremental change over FreeDOS 1.1,
although you'll find a few nice surprises.

FreeDOS 1.2 now makes it easier to connect to a network. We include a
revamped network setup and useful network applications to get you online.
Try the Dillo web browser for a graphical web experience, or the Links web
browser if you want just the text.

If you're interested in updated functionality, you can find new tools under
the Utilities section. For example, FreeDOS 1.2 provides several image
enhancement programs like Pngcrush and Gifsicle. Or you can enhance the DOS
command line with Unix-like utilities like sed, grep, tee, head, and bc.

Many people use FreeDOS to play games, and FreeDOS 1.2 now includes several
open source games for you to try. We include Freedoom and Boom for classic
first-person shooter fans. Arcade-style game fans will like Wing, a
familiar space shooter game, or Kiloblaster, a fast-paced arcade shooter.
Classic gamers will want to try Nethack, Invaders, Sudoku, and Tetris. For
those who want to play their own classic DOS games, we provide other tools
like Slowdown, so you can run certain older games on a fast modern computer.

But I think the first thing you'll notice about FreeDOS 1.2 is the new
installer! I wanted to make the install process an easy one, for new and
experienced users alike. And we have that in the new FreeDOS 1.2 installer,
thanks to Jerome Shidel. If you are a new user, the installer makes it easy
to install FreeDOS and get going with a few defaults. If you're an
experienced DOS user, you can unlock the Advanced installer that lets you
tweak the FreeDOS install to your preference.

I'm very excited for the new FreeDOS 1.2 distribution!
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 - Turkish Character Layout

[Jerome Shidel]

> On Dec 17, 2016, at 3:45 PM, thraex  wrote:
> 
> Jerome Shidel wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Ercan Ersoy wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm using Oracle VirtualBox 5.1.10. I installed FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 on
>>> virtual machine. I selected Turkish language in setup. In setup and
>>> after install, Turkish characters isn't applied by FreeDOS.
>>> 
>> 
>> (...) Displayed codepage
>> settings are not changed during the install process or configured for
>> the installed system. Probably, future versions may do that.
>> Unfortunately, it is too late in the release cycle to implement that
>> feature for 1.2. It would not be very complicated to add. But, it would
>> “ship" completely untested.
> 
> Then may I humbly suggest to postpone the release of 1.2 for say one 
> month, and to release one more RC? After all, the main reason of this 
> postponing would be received contributions so this seems like a valid 
> reason to me (and because currently the Turkish installer looks really 
> bad without the right codepage). This way, new translations could be 
> added from freedoslocal.sf.net too.
> 
> The downside would be more work for you guys, but IMHO the idea is worth 
> considering. What do you think?

There will always be more things that could be added, improved, updated or 
changed. :-)

For the most part, all supported language submissions took place many months 
ago. And the release phase for version 1.2 switched from final development of 
the installer to final testing in October. No further package updates or 
installer changes were to be made during this phase of the release. Only 
testing and installation related bug fixes. Turkish was provided very late in 
the release cycle. So, only partial support will make it into the 1.2 release. 

However, support for the codepage stuff will probably be implemented soon after 
the 1.2 release. This is a far more complicated issue than it may seem. Things 
like: The current display code page handler cannot be unloaded from memory. 
Available space on the install Media. Valid code page information, fonts and 
settings. Etc. But, it should make it in there eventually. 

There are other issues that will have to wait until after 1.2. For example, 
package updates to Free Pascal. A full install of FPC 3.0.0 requires LFN 
support. Would a stripped down version work without LFN? Should it require LFN? 
Should it be broken up into multiple packages? Now take DJGPP. Head over to the 
website. What exactly should be included from the multiple gigabytes of files? 
How about UDVD2 v2015? Are sources available? Is the license compatible? There 
are probably other packages to be worked on as well as these few.  But, they 
all need to wait as well.

Jerome

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 - Turkish Character Layout

[thraex]

Jerome Shidel wrote:
>
>> On Dec 10, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Ercan Ersoy wrote:
>>
>> I'm using Oracle VirtualBox 5.1.10. I installed FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 on
>> virtual machine. I selected Turkish language in setup. In setup and
>> after install, Turkish characters isn't applied by FreeDOS.
>>
>
> (...) Displayed codepage
> settings are not changed during the install process or configured for
> the installed system. Probably, future versions may do that.
> Unfortunately, it is too late in the release cycle to implement that
> feature for 1.2. It would not be very complicated to add. But, it would
> “ship" completely untested.

Then may I humbly suggest to postpone the release of 1.2 for say one 
month, and to release one more RC? After all, the main reason of this 
postponing would be received contributions so this seems like a valid 
reason to me (and because currently the Turkish installer looks really 
bad without the right codepage). This way, new translations could be 
added from freedoslocal.sf.net too.

The downside would be more work for you guys, but IMHO the idea is worth 
considering. What do you think?



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 - Turkish Character Layout

[Jerome Shidel]

> On Dec 10, 2016, at 2:10 PM, Ercan Ersoy  wrote:
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I'm using Oracle VirtualBox 5.1.10. I installed FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 on virtual 
> machine. I selected Turkish language in setup. In setup and after install, 
> Turkish characters isn't applied by FreeDOS.
> 
> Best regards,
> Ercan Ersoy

Turkish was a very recent addition to the installer. At present, ONLY the 
environment variable LANG and appropriate keyboard layout are configured by the 
installer for ALL languages. Displayed codepage settings are not changed during 
the install process or configured for the installed system. Probably, future 
versions may do that. Unfortunately, it is too late in the release cycle to 
implement that feature for 1.2. It would not be very complicated to add. But, 
it would “ship" completely untested. 

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 - Turkish Character Layout

[Ercan Ersoy]

Hello.


I'm using Oracle VirtualBox 5.1.10. I installed FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 on virtual 
machine. I selected Turkish language in setup. In setup and after install, 
Turkish characters isn't applied by FreeDOS.


Best regards,

Ercan Ersoy
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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 RC2 - Hungarian Keyboard

[Roland Tóth Roland]

Hi people,

I want to suggest this:
[FDCONFIG.SYS]
COUNTRY=036,852,C:\DOS\BIN\COUNTRY.SYS
[AUTOEXEC:BAT]
SET lang=HU
DISPLAY CON=(EGA,,1)
MODE CON CODEPAGE PREPARE=((852) c:\DOS\CPI\EGA.CPX)
MODE CON CODEPAGE SELECT=852
KEYB hu,852 /ID:208

Regards, Roland
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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Whats Up?

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Have you wondered exactly what has been updated in the new FreeDOS release 
since version 1.1?

Check it out 
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/previews/1.2-rc1/compare.html
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2-RC1 on Hyper-V 2012 R2

[Eric Auer]

Hi Matthew,

> ... storage, which I set to 40 GB.  The installation took a long
> time---several hours, although I didn't measure it carefully.
> Post-installation, it seemed to run slowly, e.g., a directory listing of
> the FreeDOS "bin" directory took a minute or so to display anything. ...

That is quite horrible indeed :-( Have you tried different disk
controller "models" in the virtual hardware? Or maybe Hyper-V is
simulating BIOS services in some obscure and slow way, assuming
that BIOS is "only needed during boot" by most operating systems?

Regards, Eric

PS: In one older FreeDOS install CD, autodetect and use of net and
USB drivers was extremely slow. Forcefully skipping those helped,
if no network was needed and if USB was handled by the BIOS anyway.



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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2-RC1 on Hyper-V 2012 R2

[Matthew X. Economou]

Greetings, friends!

The release candidate announcement encouraged people to try FreeDOS out
and report any problems, so here I am to say that I successfully booted
and installed 1.2-RC1 in a generation-1 Hyper-V 2012 R2 virtual machine
using the ISO image.  I pretty much took the defaults for everything
except RAM, which I set to 32 MB (the minimum allowed by Hyper-V), and
storage, which I set to 40 GB.  The installation took a long
time---several hours, although I didn't measure it carefully.
Post-installation, it seemed to run slowly, e.g., a directory listing of
the FreeDOS "bin" directory took a minute or so to display anything.
I'd be happy to do a little debugging if someone would point me in the
right direction.

Best wishes,
Matthew

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello all,

Only one more day until FreeDOS 1.2-RC1. :-)

Also, I made some minor updates to the scripting that auto-generates the html 
pages for the online software repository. Among the improvements, the pages for 
packages now provide links to “previous" package versions for added 
convenience. A good example of that would be the devel/nasm package. To 
directly browse the repo online, just visit 
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/
 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 - Keyboard Layouts

[Henrik Schick-Hansen]

Hello,


Could you please add a Danish (DK) keymap to the short list ?


Thank you,

Henrik


From: Jerome E. Shidel Jr. 
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:22:03 PM
To: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Subject: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 - Keyboard Layouts

Hello All,

Jim has been very busy over the last couple weeks and I have not heard back 
from him as of yet.
His decisions on these matters are not yet known. However, I fully understand 
the pain involved
with trying to use a command line that is mapped to a a language other than the 
one being used.
Although I am in the US, I have experienced this with remote terminals and 
linux distributions
that are configured for languages other than English.

So, I have implemented the following for the installer. I know it is not a 
perfect solution for all
users. But, I think it solves most of the issues and best conforms to the 
(overall) easy and
simplified installation process. Jim may or may not want the installer to 
always prompt for
keyboard layout selection.  I have no way of knowing and this may change once I 
hear from him.

If the user is in normal mode and English is the language, it will not prompt 
for keymap
settings and assume default of a US English.

If the user is in advanced mode or picks a non-English language, it will prompt 
with a
short list of 7 keymaps (US, UK, ES, FR, DE, DE-Alternate and NL). These mostly
match the current language selections available for the installer. The 
installer also
preselects one of these keymaps based on the users language. For example, if 
they
are using German, it will preselect a German keyboard. The user is able to 
change this
selection or choose the "More Keyboard Options..." (MKO). The MKO contains the
same 7 keyboard selections (built-in) and 3 additional ones (Latin, Swiss 
French and
Swiss German) at present. MKO is a scrollable dynamic list created at release 
time
and has no set limit to the number of choices that can be provided. However, I 
will
not be creating any additional keyboard options. There is no way for me to test 
them.

This is where all of you come into this. If you provide me with the complete 
data for an additional
keymap I will have the installer add it to the MKO section. Without any 
community provided
submissions, there will only be 10 keyboard layout choices provided.

These are the requirements:

Any comments that are to be included with the release must start with a ; 
(semi-colon).
Lines that are not Title Translations, Command Lines or Comments will be 
automatically
stripped out during their concatenation in the release build process.

All major language translations are required. (English, Spanish, German, 
French, Dutch
and Esperanto) If a translation is missing, it will be EXCLUDED from that 
language as
an option.
The CMD field is the exact DOS command that will be embedded in the AUTOEXEC.BAT
file. Technically, you could have multiple CMD entries for multiple lines. But, 
you
probably should avoid doing that.

KEYB, KEYB_LAY and MKEYB packages are all installed with FreeDOS 1.2 BASE.
So, mkeyb.exe, key.exe, xkeyb.exe and others are available to be used. You 
should test
your command line under FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 23 (or soon later version) BASE Only
installation to ensure it functions properly.

Deadline for inclusion in FreeDOS 1.2-RC1 is 10/29/2016

Deadline for inclusion in FreeDOS 1.2 (Final) is 11/11/2016

Here is the Swiss German Keyboard layout definition file as an example.

[begin file SWISS-GR.KYB]

; Optional Swiss German Keyboard Layout Definition
; by Jerome Shidel

EN=Swiss German
ES=Suizo Alem?n
DE=Schweizerdeutsch
FR=Suisse allemand
NL=Zwitserduits
EO=svislando germana

CMD=mkeyb.exe SV

[end of file]

Thanks,

Jerome

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 - Keyboard Layouts

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello All,

Jim has been very busy over the last couple weeks and I have not heard back 
from him as of yet.  
His decisions on these matters are not yet known. However, I fully understand 
the pain involved 
with trying to use a command line that is mapped to a a language other than the 
one being used. 
Although I am in the US, I have experienced this with remote terminals and 
linux distributions
that are configured for languages other than English. 

So, I have implemented the following for the installer. I know it is not a 
perfect solution for all 
users. But, I think it solves most of the issues and best conforms to the 
(overall) easy and 
simplified installation process. Jim may or may not want the installer to 
always prompt for
keyboard layout selection.  I have no way of knowing and this may change once I 
hear from him.

If the user is in normal mode and English is the language, it will not prompt 
for keymap 
settings and assume default of a US English.

If the user is in advanced mode or picks a non-English language, it will prompt 
with a 
short list of 7 keymaps (US, UK, ES, FR, DE, DE-Alternate and NL). These mostly
match the current language selections available for the installer. The 
installer also 
preselects one of these keymaps based on the users language. For example, if 
they 
are using German, it will preselect a German keyboard. The user is able to 
change this
selection or choose the “More Keyboard Options…” (MKO). The MKO contains the 
same 7 keyboard selections (built-in) and 3 additional ones (Latin, Swiss 
French and 
Swiss German) at present. MKO is a scrollable dynamic list created at release 
time 
and has no set limit to the number of choices that can be provided. However, I 
will 
not be creating any additional keyboard options. There is no way for me to test 
them.

This is where all of you come into this. If you provide me with the complete 
data for an additional
keymap I will have the installer add it to the MKO section. Without any 
community provided 
submissions, there will only be 10 keyboard layout choices provided. 

These are the requirements:

Any comments that are to be included with the release must start with a ; 
(semi-colon).
Lines that are not Title Translations, Command Lines or Comments will be 
automatically 
stripped out during their concatenation in the release build process.

All major language translations are required. (English, Spanish, German, 
French, Dutch
and Esperanto) If a translation is missing, it will be EXCLUDED from that 
language as 
an option. 

The CMD field is the exact DOS command that will be embedded in the 
AUTOEXEC.BAT 
file. Technically, you could have multiple CMD entries for multiple lines. But, 
you
probably should avoid doing that. 

KEYB, KEYB_LAY and MKEYB packages are all installed with FreeDOS 1.2 BASE. 
So, mkeyb.exe, key.exe, xkeyb.exe and others are available to be used. You 
should test 
your command line under FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 23 (or soon later version) BASE 
Only 
installation to ensure it functions properly. 

Deadline for inclusion in FreeDOS 1.2-RC1 is 10/29/2016

Deadline for inclusion in FreeDOS 1.2 (Final) is 11/11/2016

Here is the Swiss German Keyboard layout definition file as an example.

[begin file SWISS-GR.KYB]

; Optional Swiss German Keyboard Layout Definition
; by Jerome Shidel

EN=Swiss German
ES=Suizo Alemán
DE=Schweizerdeutsch
FR=Suisse allemand
NL=Zwitserduits
EO=svislando germana

CMD=mkeyb.exe SV

[end of file]

Thanks,

Jerome

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

[Eric Auer]

Hi Tom, Jerome, everybody,

> however using any OS with the wrong keyboard driver is simply shit.

Trying to explain: Imagine your keyboard has AZERTY written on it. Then
DOS comes and simply assumes you have a "normal" QWERTY keyboard. Now
every time when you press the A button, DOS types Q for you. Big pain!

You basically have to pretend that your keyboard has all the QWERTY-
specific writings on all the keys to be able to type stuff when DOS
blindly assumes that your keyboard would actually be QWERTY style.

>> Finally, I will be using mkeyb to set the keyboard layouts. It only
>> has roughly 30 or so languages.
> 
> even as author of MKEYB: there is no reason to ignore the other ~60
> keyboards that are available in freedos 1.0.

>> XKEYB is also installed and the user may change over to that for 
>> more choices.
> 
> MAKE IT A SETUP QUESTION. NOT ONLY FOR ADVANCED USERS.

The suggestion to use MKEYB is an attempt to compromise: MKEYB already
has the most popular layouts AND config for it could be squeezed into
a reasonably small amount of BAT code and only 1 question to the user.

The installer could even make reasonable assumptions and offer default
settings based on the language selected for the installation, but the
two topics (translations and keyboard layout) are mostly independent.

The choice of XKEYB is so big that a big advanced menu would have to
be implemented, which might be asking too much from Jerome's time...

Users with less popular layouts could therefore answer the question on
MKEYB layouts with "I have none of those" and the installer could then
say "Okay, read this text file with a list of XKEYB layouts and type a
layout name for XKEYB at this prompt..." Which would be less fun for
the user than some quick "pick one of those layouts, select 0-9 / A-Z"
in the initial MKEYB menu but also less work for Jerome to implement,
compared to a full menu with descriptions for tons of possible XKEYB
layouts. I admit that I am simplifying the XKEYB problem here. I omit
the "sub ID number" and "which definition file" part. Even having to
fill in some extra prompts can be less pain than having to use EDIT
to update AUTOEXEC manually later, while being in the "wrong" layout.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

[Tom Ehlert]

>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Matej Horvat  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:59:05 +0200, Jerome Shidel   
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the
>>> installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR,
>>> GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.
>> 
>> The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?

> Mostly, I see no point in offering a keyboard layout for languages that do
> not have translations available for the installer at present. There have only
> been 5 translations provided for the installer. So, for example, I don’t think
> it is very likely that many people will choose English, German, Spanish,
> French, Dutch or Esperanto and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.

I think you don't understand the problem.

most of us nonUS users will be able to use DOS in our native language,
in english, and mostly in spanish, french, ... too.

DIR and friends doesnt't need much of translation.

however using any OS with the wrong keyboard driver is simply shit.

> and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.

it's not trying to use. ist OWNING one.

> Also, limiting the number of available choices will make it easier to
> select the correct layout from the menu. Instead having multiple pages
> of keyboard layout choices. Each of these screens will require translation
> into the appropriate languages.

I start thinking that you are the wrong person to define what FreeDOS 1.2 
should look like.

> Finally, I will be using mkeyb to set the keyboard layouts. It only has
> roughly 30 or so languages.

even as author of MKEYB: there is no reason to ignore the other ~60
keyboards that are available in freedos 1.0.

software should become better over time.


> XKEYB is also installed and the user may change over to that for 
> more choices.

MAKE IT A SETUP QUESTION. NOT ONLY FOR ADVANCED USERS.

TOM


Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards
Tom Ehlert
+49-241-79886


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

[Ralf Quint]

On 10/16/2016 4:02 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr. wrote:
>
>> The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?
> Mostly, I see no point in offering a keyboard layout for languages that do
> not have translations available for the installer at present. There have only
> been 5 translations provided for the installer. So, for example, I don’t think
> it is very likely that many people will choose English, German, Spanish,
> French, Dutch or Esperanto and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.
The part of the issue that you seem to be missing is that a lot of those 
people will have a computer with a localized keyboard. And it can be a 
pain in the posterior even if you try to work in an English language 
software with a localized keyboard. For example on a German keyboard, 
"Z" and "Y" are reversed, and several punctuation keys are in different 
locations, "(" and ")" are for example also shifted to the left, "-", 
"/" are in totally different positions (though for those usually the 
workaround of the numeric keyboard works). And other languages are even 
worse.
Again, that not only makes working in localized software difficult but 
even trying to use English software/commands...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Oct 16, 2016, at 11:33 AM, Matej Horvat  
> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:59:05 +0200, Jerome Shidel   
> wrote:
> 
>> If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the
>> installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR,
>> GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.
> 
> The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?

Mostly, I see no point in offering a keyboard layout for languages that do
not have translations available for the installer at present. There have only
been 5 translations provided for the installer. So, for example, I don’t think 
it is very likely that many people will choose English, German, Spanish, 
French, Dutch or Esperanto and be trying to use a Norske keyboard.

Also, limiting the number of available choices will make it easier to
select the correct layout from the menu. Instead having multiple pages
of keyboard layout choices. Each of these screens will require translation 
into the appropriate languages. 

Finally, I will be using mkeyb to set the keyboard layouts. It only has
roughly 30 or so languages. 

XKEYB is also installed and the user may change over to that for 
more choices.

Jerome
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

[Matej Horvat]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2016 16:59:05 +0200, Jerome Shidel   
wrote:

> If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the
> installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR,
> GR2, SG, NL, FR and SP.

The FreeDOS 1.0 installer offered 85 keyboard layouts. Why stop there?

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 -- Keymap

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello All,

This is my plan.

I will try to find the time over the next couple days to implement the keyboard 
mapping in the installer.

If the user is in advanced mode OR selects a non-English language, the 
installer will prompt for a couple of keyboard settings. US, UK, GR, GR2, SG, 
NL, FR and SP.

It will not prompt when running in normal mode and English is selected. 
Hopefully, Jim will be fine with this addition. 

Jerome




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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 23

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Just an FYI,

I noticed a minor cut & paste error in the mkFDI.bat build utility. 
This issue effected using FDIDEV.BAT to replicate the build environment. 
This issue also prevented FDI from installing source files when installing 
FreeDOS.

This issue has been resolved for the next release (RC1).

Jerome
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Ulrich Hansen]

> Am 21.08.2016 um 15:33 schrieb Jerome E. Shidel Jr. :
> 
> Hello Ulrich,
> 
> I will definitely look into it very soon. 
> (Probably next weekend. Some changes at work have really limited my free time 
> lately)

Hello Jerome,

thanks for the reply. No reason to hurry… :-)

> Rugxulo has also pointed me to a FreeDOS based release that MetaDOS. It 
> seems to do the automatic networking setup pretty well.

Yes it’s kind of magic. I am flattened. With berndpci and some cryptic PCI 
codes it identifies different cards (PCNTPK, NE2000, RTSPKT).
I found an old mail by Bret Johnson (Nov 11th, 2013) in "FreeDOS user", who 
used TSRCOM to do the same. And I looked into CRYNWR.BAT in the CRYNWR package 
- they also try to identify cards, also virtual network cards.

I am now looking into vmware to understand how their virtual network works. 
Maybe the above could be done in FreeDOS 1.2 too.

BTW: For berndpci there is no license file, it just states Public Domain.

> Your solution will probably be easier for me to implement though. Especially, 
> since
> you have figured out all of the steps needed to get it working. 

I am still working on it. I am for instance not sure what happens if you update 
a FDNPK package. Will configuration files be overwritten? Is it really OK to 
let "fdinst install MTCP.ZIP" create C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG?

>> Bugs2
>> The DHCP line won’t work as the C:\MTCP directory is not added to the PATH.
>> The PCNTPK line will not work as C:\FDOS\DRIVERS\CRYNWR is not added to the 
>> PATH.
>> Would this be fixed in FDNPKG or in the installer?
>> 
>> Please add them to the PATH. Then remove the REM in both lines.
> 
> I think the best solution will be to relocate all networking stuff in the 
> AUTOEXEC.BAT into
> a separate batch file. Probably, NETSTART.BAT or STARTNET.BAT. Then, provide 
> it as a 
> separate package. 
> 
> Then in the AUTOEXEC, just test for its existence and run it if present. A 
> user could easily
> disable it by using a single REM or removing the package. 

Sounds good.

>> Bug 3
>> Loading high PCNTPK will not work with option 2. So remove the „LH“ in this 
>> line.
> 
> Do you know why it won’t load high with option 2?

I can’t remember. In my VirtualBox images I have in AUTOEXEC.BAT the line:

IF "%config%"=="2" PCNTPK INT=0x60
IF NOT "%config%"=="2" LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

so I worked around the bug for a long time. But why? I suspect it had to do 
with the different memory management in option 1 and 2.

Thanks again!
Ulrich
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello Ulrich,

I will definitely look into it very soon. 
(Probably next weekend. Some changes at work have really limited my free time 
lately)

Rugxulo has also pointed me to a FreeDOS based release that MetaDOS. It 
seems to do the automatic networking setup pretty well. Under VirtualBOX,
it works with the default settings. But with VMware Fusion, you must change
the type of networking adapter. However, that is all the further that I have 
been able to look at it so far. I don’t know if there are any issues with 
porting 
it to the official FreeDOS release. I have not had the time to delve into it and
figure out exactly what needs to be done. 

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/metados/
 


Your solution will probably be easier for me to implement though. Especially, 
since
you have figured out all of the steps needed to get it working. 


> On Aug 21, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Ulrich Hansen  wrote:
> [..]
> are already in your AUTOEXEC.BAT. But there are bugs...
> 
> Bug 1
> In your AUTOEXEC.BAT you have a line:
> REM CHCP 858REM LH PCNTPK INT=0x60
> 
> So someone accidentally deleted a line break. It should read:
> REM CHCP 858
> REM LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

As it turns out, this is a minor installer bug I will fix. 

rem IF EXIST %DOSDIR%\BIN\DOSLFN.COM LH DOSLFN
$LANG_SET$
REM LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

Inserting the “REM” language settings drops the trailing CRLF. I 
never noticed it was doing that it will take care of it.

> 
> Bugs2
> The DHCP line won’t work as the C:\MTCP directory is not added to the PATH.
> The PCNTPK line will not work as C:\FDOS\DRIVERS\CRYNWR is not added to the 
> PATH.
> Would this be fixed in FDNPKG or in the installer?
> 
> Please add them to the PATH. Then remove the REM in both lines.

I think the best solution will be to relocate all networking stuff in the 
AUTOEXEC.BAT into
a separate batch file. Probably, NETSTART.BAT or STARTNET.BAT. Then, provide it 
as a 
separate package. 

Then in the AUTOEXEC, just test for its existence and run it if present. A user 
could easily
disable it by using a single REM or removing the package. 

> 
> Bug 3
> Loading high PCNTPK will not work with option 2. So remove the „LH“ in this 
> line.

Do you know why it won’t load high with option 2?

> 
> Bug 4
> DHCP will not work because there is no MTCP.CFG found in C:\FDOS\. 
> I suggest to copy the file SAMPLE.CFG in the MTCP.ZIP package from PROGS\MTCP 
> to the root as MTCP.CFG.
> This will make sure MTCP.CFG is installed in C:\FDOS. I have done that and 
> there is an updated version of MTCP.ZIP at: 
> https://www.lazybrowndog.net/freedos/files/mtcp.zip 
> 
> 
> 
> Now after "DHCP“ add another line for WATTCP autoconfiguration with DHCP
> C:\FDOS\BIN\M2WAT.COM 
> 
> Some things still have to be done manually by the user (configuring FTPSRV 
> password files, configuring VirtualBox to bridged networking) but it’s a big 
> step forward.

Thanks, 
Jerome

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Ulrich Hansen]

Hi Jerome,

I experimented a bit more with your installer CD to find out the steps how to 
install the programs I talked about in my last post.
Luckily most things are already there. Unfortunately there are some bugs.

Crynwr and MTCP are on the CD so you could just install them if you detect 
VirtualBox. 

FDINST install F:\NET\CRYNWR.ZIP
FDINST install F:\NET\MTCP.ZIP

I zipped M2WAT in a FDNPKG compatible format: 
https://github.com/ulrich-hansen/M2WAT/blob/master/m2wat.zip 


IF you approve it, download and add it to the CD / the repo and install it with:
FDINST install F:\NET\m2wat.zip

The lines:

SET MTCPCFG=%dosdir%\MTCP.CFG
SET WATTCP.CFG=%dosdir%
..
REM DHCP

are already in your AUTOEXEC.BAT. But there are bugs...

Bug 1
In your AUTOEXEC.BAT you have a line:
REM CHCP 858REM LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

So someone accidentally deleted a line break. It should read:
REM CHCP 858
REM LH PCNTPK INT=0x60

Bugs2
The DHCP line won’t work as the C:\MTCP directory is not added to the PATH.
The PCNTPK line will not work as C:\FDOS\DRIVERS\CRYNWR is not added to the 
PATH.
Would this be fixed in FDNPKG or in the installer?

Please add them to the PATH. Then remove the REM in both lines.

Bug 3
Loading high PCNTPK will not work with option 2. So remove the „LH“ in this 
line.

Bug 4
DHCP will not work because there is no MTCP.CFG found in C:\FDOS\. 
I suggest to copy the file SAMPLE.CFG in the MTCP.ZIP package from PROGS\MTCP 
to the root as MTCP.CFG.
This will make sure MTCP.CFG is installed in C:\FDOS. I have done that and 
there is an updated version of MTCP.ZIP at: 
https://www.lazybrowndog.net/freedos/files/mtcp.zip 



Now after "DHCP“ add another line for WATTCP autoconfiguration with DHCP
C:\FDOS\BIN\M2WAT.COM

Some things still have to be done manually by the user (configuring FTPSRV 
password files, configuring VirtualBox to bridged networking) but it’s a big 
step forward.





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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Ulrich Hansen]

Hi Jerome!

>>> One thing I would like to see make it into the release is some networking. I
>>> don’t think it would be practical to have a universal setup for each and
>>> every machine and NIC at this time. But, it may be possible to have
>>> the installer automatically do this for some of the known virtual machines.

Actually FreeDOS 1.1 did quite a good job with networking in virtual machines. 
It would be great if FreeDOS 1.2 could keep it this way.

1. Drivers

FreeDOS 1.1 included PCNTPK.COM  in C:\FDOS\BIN. This is 
the packet driver for the default virtual network card in VirtualBox. It is 
also very easy to use this driver in qemu. Just start qemu with the switch 
„-device pcnet“. VMware is also able to emulate that card. So most people will 
be happy with it.

PCNTPK is distributed at: http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/amdpd.zip 
 The ZIP file includes the source as 
PCNTPK.ASM. PCNTPK.ASM says, it is copyright by AMD, Russell Nelson and Mike 
Ching and it is released under the GNU GPL v1. (It’s from 1994). The author 
Russ Nelson states the driver is OSI certified. As he was a founding member of 
the OSI, I see no reason to doubt that this is Open Source. 

I suggest to keep PCNTPK.COM  in FreeDOS 1.2. just where it 
was in 1.1.


2. Software

FreeDOS 1.1 included mTCP by Mike Brutman, an IBM programmer. He was so 
generous to ask his employer for a code review, which was finished at May 28th 
of 2011 when he released it as Open Source (GPL v3) on this list.The last Open 
Source version is 2013-05-23. 

mTCP includes a DHCP client, a FTP client and server, htget, ping, a web 
server, an IRC client, a netcat clone, pkttool, a timeserver client and a 
telnet client. This should make a lot of people very happy.

FreeDOS 1.1 had mTCP in C:\FDOS\BIN. I suggest to keep this great free software 
in FreeDOS 1.2. 


3. More software

There is a lot more Open Source networking software, from Arachne to GNU wget. 
Most of it is based on the free WATTCP library developed by Erick Engelke. If I 
could make a wish, I’d like to see SSH2DOS included in FreeDOS 1.2, which is a 
SSH client. It’s Free Software (GPL v2) and can be found at: 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sshdos/ 



4. Automatic Configuration

You said:

>>> DHCP setup only.

mTCP DHCP.EXE get’s the network configuration from a DHCP server and writes it 
into MTCP.CFG. That’s a very good start. It would be even better if this 
configuration could be transferred automatically to WATTCP.CFG. Dave Dunfield 
wrote the utility DHCP.COM  just for that. But unfortunately 
no source and no license can be found on his otherwise great website at 
http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/ 


For my VirtualBox FreeDOS images at 
https://www.lazybrowndog.net/freedos/virtualbox/ 
 I start a tiny free software 
program called M2WAT at boot in AUTOEXEC.BAT. It is written by the user 
"cordata" here on this list. See: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/freedos-user%40lists.sourceforge.net/msg15414.html 


It copies the IPs from MTCP.CFG into a valid WATTCP.CFG configuration file.

I tried to reach cordata a month ago but he didn’t respond - probably he is 
busy with other things. So I put his free software program into my github repo 
at https://github.com/ulrich-hansen/M2WAT 
 Everything is in folders as I saw it 
in other FDNPKG packages.

If M2WAT would make it into FreeDOS 1.2. most networking programs could be 
configured automatically by DHCP.



5. AUTOEXEC.BAT

AUTOEXEC.BAT needs the following lines to make the above actually happening.

SET MTCPCFG=C:\FDOS\MTCP.CFG
SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\FDOS
LH C:\FDOS\BIN\PCNTPK.COM INT=0x60
C:\FDOS\BIN\DHCP.EXE
C:\FDOS\BIN\M2WAT.COM

You could REM out all these lines in the default AUTOEXEC.BAT, so anyone who 
wants a network can just re-enable them. 
Or maybe you have a better idea. :-)

Anyway thanks a lot for looking into this! And for all your great work.

Ulrich

PS: Some things in this post have also been suggested by Louis Santillan. 
Thanks to him for his helpful research!


> Am 01.08.2016 um 03:38 schrieb Jerome Shidel  >:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Rugxulo pointed me at a custom FreeDOS release that has some networking 
> support. I haven't had time to look at it closely. But, initial quick and 
> simple tests showed support for VirtualBox and VMware (bridged NIC). 
> 
>> On Jul 31, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Louis Santillan > > wrote:
>> 
>> A couple weeks late.  Apologies.
>> 
>> I like this goal.  The current FD 1.2pre 22 doesn't seem to have any
>> networking subsystem packages installed.  For me, this affects our
>> direction.  Michael Bru

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Jerome Shidel]

Hello,

Rugxulo pointed me at a custom FreeDOS release that has some networking 
support. I haven't had time to look at it closely. But, initial quick and 
simple tests showed support for VirtualBox and VMware (bridged NIC). 

> On Jul 31, 2016, at 8:32 PM, Louis Santillan  wrote:
> 
> A couple weeks late.  Apologies.
> 
> I like this goal.  The current FD 1.2pre 22 doesn't seem to have any
> networking subsystem packages installed.  For me, this affects our
> direction.  Michael Brutman has additional applicable analysis about
> DOS networking here [0].
> 
> WatTCP/Watt-32: Lots of apps.  Mostly older, unmaintained apps.  16 &
> 32 bit apps and libraries.  Not a lot recent development or
> maintenance.  OpenSSL support (which affect modern apps).
> mTCP: Few apps.  Recent (well) written apps.  16-bit only.  Currently
> (semi-?)actively developed graciously by Michael.  No SSL/TLS support.
> picoTCP4dos:  One app (FDNPKG) for DOS, maybe others for other
> platforms could be ported.  16-bit only (as ported by Mateusz, I see
> potential for a 32-bit djgpp port) as of yet.  No apparent SSL/TLS
> support, yet.
> 
> As for the Emulators and their hardware support,
> VMWare: Supports AMD PCnet [1].
> VirtualBox: Supports AMD PCnet [2].
> QEMU: Supports AMD PCnet [3] as well as NE2000.
> Bochs: Supports only NE2000 [4].
> 
> Personally I'm a VirtualBox and/or QEMU user and formerly a Bochs user.
> 
> As for drivers, the picture seems complicated (at least to me).  The
> only reference to open source DOS network drivers are the crynwr's
> [5].  The amdpd.zip [6] file seems to have a PCnet driver with an
> ambiguous license (AMD Trade Secret + Russell Nelson GPL?).  There's a
> NE2000 [7] driver as well.  Somehow they're all OSI certified.
> There's lots of them.  They're intended to compile with TASM/Turbo
> Make first, MASM second.  NASM, OWASM, JWASM porting/support would be
> nice.
> 
> A nice generic WatTCP/mTCP DHCP config in autoexec.bat is easy to
> setup if you're using David Dunfield's DHCP [8][9].  It can write both
> config file formats. I do something like:
> SET MTCPCFG=C:\DOS\MTCP.CFG
> SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\DOS
> LH C:\DRIVERS\PCNTPK INT=0x60
> C:\DRIVERS\DHCP.COM P=60 /F /M
> C:\DRIVERS\DHCP.COM P=60 /F /W C:\DOS\WATTCP.CFG
> 
> 
> 
> [0] http://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/#Some_notes_on_networking_software
> [1] http://www.stankowic-development.net/?p=6674&lang=en
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualBox#Device_virtualization
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU#Emulated_hardware_platforms
> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochs#Emulated_hardware
> [5] http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/00index.html
> [6] hA couple weeks late.  Apologies.
> 
> I like this goal.  The current FD 1.2pre 22 doesn't seem to have any
> networking subsystem packages installed.  For me, this affects our
> direction.  Michael Brutman has additional applicable analysis about
> DOS networking here [0].
> 
> WatTCP/Watt-32: Lots of apps.  Mostly older, unmaintained apps.  16 &
> 32 bit apps and libraries.  Not a lot recent development or
> maintenance.  OpenSSL support (which affect modern apps).
> mTCP: Few apps.  Recent (well) written apps.  16-bit only.  Currently
> (semi-?)actively developed graciously by Michael.  No SSL/TLS support.
> picoTCP4dos:  One app (FDNPKG) for DOS, maybe others for other
> platforms could be ported.  16-bit only (as ported by Mateusz, I see
> potential for a 32-bit djgpp port) as of yet.  No apparent SSL/TLS
> support, yet.
> 
> As for the Emulators and their hardware support,
> VMWare: Supports AMD PCnet [1].
> VirtualBox: Supports AMD PCnet [2].
> QEMU: Supports AMD PCnet [3] as well as NE2000.
> Bochs: Supports only NE2000 [4].
> 
> Personally I'm a VirtualBox and/or QEMU user and formerly a Bochs user.
> 
> As for drivers, the picture seems complicated (at least to me).  The
> only reference to open source DOS network drivers are the crynwr's
> [5].  The amdpd.zip [6] file seems to have a PCnet driver with an
> ambiguous license (AMD Trade Secret + Russell Nelson GPL?).  There's a
> NE2000 [7] driver as well.  Somehow they're all OSI certified.
> There's lots of them.  They're intended to compile with TASM/Turbo
> Make first, MASM second.  NASM, OWASM, JWASM porting/support would be
> nice.
> 
> A nice generic WatTCP/mTCP DHCP config in autoexec.bat is easy to
> setup if you're using David Dunfield's DHCP [8][9].  It can write both
> config file formats. I do something like:
> SET MTCPCFG=C:\DOS\MTCP.CFG
> SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\DOS
> LH C:\DRIVERS\PCNTPK INT=0x60
> C:\DRIVERS\DHCP.COM P=60 /F /M
> C:\DRIVERS\DHCP.COM P=60 /F /W C:\DOS\WATTCP.CFG
> 
> 
> 
> [0] http://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/#Some_notes_on_networking_software
> [1] http://www.stankowic-development.net/?p=6674&lang=en
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualBox#Device_virtualization
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU#Emulated_hardware_platforms
> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochs#Emulated_hardware
> [5

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Louis Santillan]

A couple weeks late.  Apologies.

I like this goal.  The current FD 1.2pre 22 doesn't seem to have any
networking subsystem packages installed.  For me, this affects our
direction.  Michael Brutman has additional applicable analysis about
DOS networking here [0].

WatTCP/Watt-32: Lots of apps.  Mostly older, unmaintained apps.  16 &
32 bit apps and libraries.  Not a lot recent development or
maintenance.  OpenSSL support (which affect modern apps).
mTCP: Few apps.  Recent (well) written apps.  16-bit only.  Currently
(semi-?)actively developed graciously by Michael.  No SSL/TLS support.
picoTCP4dos:  One app (FDNPKG) for DOS, maybe others for other
platforms could be ported.  16-bit only (as ported by Mateusz, I see
potential for a 32-bit djgpp port) as of yet.  No apparent SSL/TLS
support, yet.

As for the Emulators and their hardware support,
VMWare: Supports AMD PCnet [1].
VirtualBox: Supports AMD PCnet [2].
QEMU: Supports AMD PCnet [3] as well as NE2000.
Bochs: Supports only NE2000 [4].

Personally I'm a VirtualBox and/or QEMU user and formerly a Bochs user.

As for drivers, the picture seems complicated (at least to me).  The
only reference to open source DOS network drivers are the crynwr's
[5].  The amdpd.zip [6] file seems to have a PCnet driver with an
ambiguous license (AMD Trade Secret + Russell Nelson GPL?).  There's a
NE2000 [7] driver as well.  Somehow they're all OSI certified.
There's lots of them.  They're intended to compile with TASM/Turbo
Make first, MASM second.  NASM, OWASM, JWASM porting/support would be
nice.

A nice generic WatTCP/mTCP DHCP config in autoexec.bat is easy to
setup if you're using David Dunfield's DHCP [8][9].  It can write both
config file formats. I do something like:
SET MTCPCFG=C:\DOS\MTCP.CFG
SET WATTCP.CFG=C:\DOS
LH C:\DRIVERS\PCNTPK INT=0x60
C:\DRIVERS\DHCP.COM P=60 /F /M
C:\DRIVERS\DHCP.COM P=60 /F /W C:\DOS\WATTCP.CFG



[0] http://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/#Some_notes_on_networking_software
[1] http://www.stankowic-development.net/?p=6674&lang=en
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualBox#Device_virtualization
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QEMU#Emulated_hardware_platforms
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bochs#Emulated_hardware
[5] http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/00index.html
[6] http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/amdpd.zip
[7] http://www.crynwr.com/drivers/pktd11b.zip
[8] http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/index.htm
[9] http://www.classiccmp.org/dunfield/dos/dhcp.zip

On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 4:36 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> As you you may already know, we have been working on the FreeDOS 1.2
> release.
> One thing I would like to see make it into the release is some networking. I
> don’t think it would be
> practical to have a universal setup for each and every machine and NIC at
> this time. But, it
> may be possible to have the installer automatically do this for some of the
> known virtual machines.
> For example, it may be feasible to setup and configure VMware, VirtualBOX
> and QEMU to do
> networking. But, I don’t have the time to figure it all out. This is where
> all of you come in.
>
>
> If you can provide the detailed information for these platforms and Jim
> approves, I may then be
> possible to include it.
>
> Here are the main and mostly obvious requirements.
>
> All files and drivers must have an acceptable license and can be
> redistributed. Public Domain,
>   GPL, BSD or another open source or unrestricted license. No encumbered
> commercial drivers
> (such as NOVELL Netware, 3COM, NetGear, ….. ).
>
> DHCP setup only.
>
> Links to (or provide) any drivers and files that are required.
> (It would be nice if they were in a FDNPKG compatible package)
>
> Completely setup configuration files for the platform. (all INI, CFG files,
> etc)
>
> List of any current 1.2 repo packages that may be needed (excluding BASE
> packages).
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/
>
> Preferably, any files that are not in a package (like the config files) are
> placed under
> \NET\VMWARE, \NET\VBOX, \NET\QEMU or other appropriate directory for the
> platform.
>
> Also, please do not provide a customized config.sys or autoexec.bat. It
> should be possible to
> place all environment settings and load drivers from a \NET\STARTNET.BAT
> file.
>
> Thank you, Jerome
>
> (Without your support, there is no way any type of pre-configured networking
> will make it into the next release.)

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Auto NET Config

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello all,

As you you may already know, we have been working on the FreeDOS 1.2 release. 
One thing I would like to see make it into the release is some networking. I 
don’t think it would be 
practical to have a universal setup for each and every machine and NIC at this 
time. But, it
may be possible to have the installer automatically do this for some of the 
known virtual machines.
For example, it may be feasible to setup and configure VMware, VirtualBOX and 
QEMU to do
networking. But, I don’t have the time to figure it all out. This is where all 
of you come in. 

If you can provide the detailed information for these platforms and Jim 
approves, I may then be 
possible to include it. 

Here are the main and mostly obvious requirements.

All files and drivers must have an acceptable license and can be 
redistributed. Public Domain, 
GPL, BSD or another open source or unrestricted license. No encumbered 
commercial drivers 
(such as NOVELL Netware, 3COM, NetGear, ….. ).

DHCP setup only.

Links to (or provide) any drivers and files that are required.
(It would be nice if they were in a FDNPKG compatible package)

Completely setup configuration files for the platform. (all INI, CFG 
files, etc)

List of any current 1.2 repo packages that may be needed (excluding 
BASE packages).

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.2/repos/pkg-html/
 


Preferably, any files that are not in a package (like the config files) 
are placed under 
\NET\VMWARE, \NET\VBOX, \NET\QEMU or other appropriate directory for 
the platform.

Also, please do not provide a customized config.sys or autoexec.bat. It 
should be possible to
place all environment settings and load drivers from a 
\NET\STARTNET.BAT file. 

Thank you, Jerome

(Without your support, there is no way any type of pre-configured networking 
will make it into the next release.)--
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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 - Preview 17

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello all, 

I have just released Preview 17, http://up.lod.bz/FDI

This release contains:

* Minor package and data updates.
* Some internal improvements.
* Some VirtualBox compatibility updates.
* USB versions include FDIDEV.BAT to aid in 
  replicating the FDI Build Environment.

Other than Package and Package Data updates, no further updates are
planned for FDI before FreeDOS 1.2 Final.

Thanks, Jerome

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 BETA, Coming soon--ish.

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello All,

This is mostly a status update regarding the FreeDOS 1.2 BETA release.

There have been no installer related issues reported with the current FDI 
Preview 14 and it
is technically ready for the BETA release. However, I intend on implementing a 
couple things
prior to that release. They will include:

A couple more features added to FDIMPLES for stand-alone mode usage.

An additional feature for detecting DOSBox in the V8Power Tools vinfo 
utility.

Due to either an issue that is probably in DOSBox or FreeCOM, I/O 
redirection
does not work to specification under DOSBox. This only effects the vstr 
part of 
the V8 Power Tools utilities. I intend on implementing a workaround in 
vstr to 
make FDI more DOSBox friendly.

Add a few lines in FDI to skip things like SYS transfer in DOSBox.

Maybe some more fine tuning of the BASE and ALL package lists.

I’ve been extremely busy over the last couple of weeks and have not had very 
much
free time to complete these items. I don’t see my schedule lightening up for 
quite a
while. But, I hope to squeeze a few minutes here and there to knock these items
out and have the BETA release ready soon--ish.


Thanks, Jerome
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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2+ Preview 12 with Dimples

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello all,

Just released FDI Preview 12.

Some major non-UI underlying changes, for better performance and compatibility.
Too many improvements and far to many things to list. Hopefully, this will be 
the last 
preview before FreeDOS 1.2 beta. Next, I intend on looking through the package
lists and adding stuff to all and extras.

However, I mentioned dimples in the subject. I meant FDIMPLES. 
FreeDOS Installer - My Package List Editor Software. It is not 100% complete,
but it is fully integrated and works. Remember, you must be running the 
installer
in advanced mode for detailed package selections. You can enter advanced mode
by running “setup adv” or by pressing CTRL+C at any point the installer is 
waiting
on user input.

http://up.lod.bz/FDI 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

At least with fdisk /XO [Extended Options in user interface] on (set
at the end of fdisk.ini), we have access to functions to change type
of a partition in the interface.
Looking a bit in the code, there seems to be an option for extended
interrupt 13h functions.
And it seems to use (more) LBA in that case... sorry it is still quite unclear.
Functions in 'interface 2'.c use GetPartitionType in 'compute'.
There is also a LBA_Get_Partiontype function, that seems to switch
type 0xb(11) to 0xc(12).
Well, that's from memory, I am not anymore in front of my own computer.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 11:20 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:
>
>>What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
>>aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.
>
> Yes, looks like you found the problem.
>
> I DID NOT SAW ANY WAY TO CHANGE THE TYPE OF THE PARTITION IN FreeDOS FDISK!!
>
> Looks like FreeDOS FDISK use type b when using FAT32, but should use
> type c to enable LBA!!

I don't know how to force FDISK to set this correctly (or even fix this).

http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/fdisk.htm

"/XDo not use LBA partitions." (so it does know about LBA sometimes)

"[/SPEC:'type#'] Specifies the partition type number." (maybe this works??)

'/SMBR [drive#]  Saves the current MBR on 'drive#', into a file called
"boot.mbr".' (that could be useful)

...

But anyways, a quick double-check does show that BootMgr can "set
partition id" (hex), if needed. IIRC, that's the way that I manually
corrected mine, years ago.

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=bootmgr

There are presumably other ways too (wDE ??), but I don't know offhand.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Louis Santillan]

I wouldn't think the LBA aware type would have kept your system from
booting.  I thought that only affected Win9x and IFS driver.

Glad you got it working anyways.

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:20 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:

> >What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
> >aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.
> Yes, looks like you found the problem.
> I changed it in Linux, from b (W95 FAT32) to c (W95 FAT32 LBA).
> Then tried to boot my partition (that is now in GRUB since I just
> installed a Linux to the side of FreeDOS).
> It did not worked better than before. [just blinking cursor]
> But then I rebooted with my FreeDOS FDI-USB beta key, and ran fdisk.
> There I now saw (W95 FAT32 L[BA was missing].
> I DID NOT SAW ANY WAY TO CHANGE THE TYPE OF THE PARTITION IN FreeDOS
> FDISK!!
> So I reinstalled over.
> Was happy this time that fdisk or setup did not try to install it's
> own MBR so not to break my Linux Grub.
> And that time it boots fine.
>
> Looks like FreeDOS FDISK use type b when using FAT32, but should use
> type c to enable LBA!!
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

>What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
>aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.
Yes, looks like you found the problem.
I changed it in Linux, from b (W95 FAT32) to c (W95 FAT32 LBA).
Then tried to boot my partition (that is now in GRUB since I just
installed a Linux to the side of FreeDOS).
It did not worked better than before. [just blinking cursor]
But then I rebooted with my FreeDOS FDI-USB beta key, and ran fdisk.
There I now saw (W95 FAT32 L[BA was missing].
I DID NOT SAW ANY WAY TO CHANGE THE TYPE OF THE PARTITION IN FreeDOS FDISK!!
So I reinstalled over.
Was happy this time that fdisk or setup did not try to install it's
own MBR so not to break my Linux Grub.
And that time it boots fine.

Looks like FreeDOS FDISK use type b when using FAT32, but should use
type c to enable LBA!!

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Louis Santillan]

You probably do need to use `fdisk /MBR:80`.   80h was the traditional IO
port for the first BIOS HDD.  IIRC, 00h for Floppy A:, 01h for Floppy B:,
all non-removables (usually meaning HDD) start at 80h.

This may be different for a BIOS (some Dell, Compaq, HP BIOSes, IIRC) that
supports Zip 100/250/750, LS-135/270, Jaz 1GB/2GB Drives, Syquest SparQ
1GB, SyJet 1500. Castlewood Orb 2.2GB/5.7GB drives.

What does `fdisk /INFO:80 /TECH` and `fdisk /INFO:81 /TECH` return when
booting from the FDI-USB image?




On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:

> Burn on a DVD latest SystemRescueCD but does the same as on my USB key:
> -divide by zero exception when trying to use FreeDOS on the DVD
> -SuperGrub just showing upperleft blinking cursor when booting SATA
> 149 GiB, FreeDOS partition
>
> But discovered that HardwareDetectionTool was showing MBR as Grub2 v.
> 1.97...
> So used install-mbr on SystemRescueCD to install 'Testdisk MBR' that
> let's you choose which partition (1-4) to boot.
> Well, seems to not reboot anymore, but having the blinking cursor
> after 'MBR' showing on the console.
>
> The SATA controller is an NVidia one... must chips are NVidia on that
> motherboard.
> Don't know if it can be linked to the isssue.
>
> Don't know why 'fdisk /mbr:81 was not working... had verified that I
> did not need :80 (C:). Maybe fast, but I had checked.
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 9:24 PM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:
>
> Burn on a DVD latest SystemRescueCD but does the same as on my USB key:
> -divide by zero exception when trying to use FreeDOS on the DVD

Try F8 (single stepping) through your config, and disable any EMM386
or JEMMEX. See if that helps.

> -SuperGrub just showing upperleft blinking cursor when booting SATA
> 149 GiB, FreeDOS partition
>
> But discovered that HardwareDetectionTool was showing MBR as Grub2 v. 1.97...

What exact partition i.d. is your FAT? Perhaps it needs to be LBA
aware (0xC)? I don't remember offhand.

BTW, "Grub2" and "1.9.7" sounds wrong. I assume this means you're
(only) using GRUB classic. It can't be hard to wipe that (stage1 ??),
can it?

> So used install-mbr on SystemRescueCD to install 'Testdisk MBR' that
> let's you choose which partition (1-4) to boot.
> Well, seems to not reboot anymore, but having the blinking cursor
> after 'MBR' showing on the console.

Have you ever successfully tried other methods of installing (DOS) to USB?

1). http://unetbootin.github.io/
2). http://rufus.akeo.ie/
3). http://joelinoff.com/blog/?p=431

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

Burn on a DVD latest SystemRescueCD but does the same as on my USB key:
-divide by zero exception when trying to use FreeDOS on the DVD
-SuperGrub just showing upperleft blinking cursor when booting SATA
149 GiB, FreeDOS partition

But discovered that HardwareDetectionTool was showing MBR as Grub2 v. 1.97...
So used install-mbr on SystemRescueCD to install 'Testdisk MBR' that
let's you choose which partition (1-4) to boot.
Well, seems to not reboot anymore, but having the blinking cursor
after 'MBR' showing on the console.

The SATA controller is an NVidia one... must chips are NVidia on that
motherboard.
Don't know if it can be linked to the isssue.

Don't know why 'fdisk /mbr:81 was not working... had verified that I
did not need :80 (C:). Maybe fast, but I had checked.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:56 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
>> On Feb 2, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>>
>>> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
>>> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
>>> separately.
>>
>> Not sure which coolness factor FreePascal has, but Pascal
>> certainly was a classic programming language of DOS users.
>
> I agree with Pascal being a classic and very traditional language and
> even if it is not installed I would like to see it ship on the install
> media.
>
> But, if Jim wants the USB and ISO to be as slim as possible (no extras) and
> it doesn’t become part of ALL, I will sadly pull it without complaint. :-(

How sad can you be? They can still easily find it online. Let's be
honest, I'm not complaining that hard. It's not THAT important either
way.

I just dislike including 150 MB of developer stuff when I heavily
suspect that 99% of users will never need it. (And I prefer FPC more
than most, but it's just not crucial enough here.)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

Your suggestion to "fdisk /mbr:81" (81=D:) was making much sense to me
because the disk was having grub on it before I erase all with fdisk
to make place for FreeDOS. So yes, it made sense that grub being
installed in MBR might made me not having normal MBR.
But trying "fdisk /mbr:81" have not helped: still rebooting in loop.
I check the filesystem in Linux, mounted it, seems fine.

When booting RescueCD on my multiboot USB (that I am using to write my
email), using A) SuperGrub, it detects and shows the FreeDOS OS, but
when I tried to boot from it, was having just the cursor blinking
endlessly in upperleft.
That said, when in multiboot USB, sometimes thing are not exactly as
they should. Like trying to run the FreeDOS that is partr of RescueCD
was having a divide by 0 error before the prompt appears.

Unsure at all how to continue... maybe download latest rescueCD and
burn it on a DVD.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
>> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
>> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
>> separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
>> smaller, so to those I have no complaints.
> 
> FreeBasic has a rather cool QB compatibility mode and some
> software in the FreeDOS distro is compiled with DJGPP, but
> of course without the tons of add-ons available for DJGPP.
> 
> Not sure which coolness factor FreePascal has, but Pascal
> certainly was a classic programming language of DOS users.

I agree with Pascal being a classic and very traditional language and
even if it is not installed I would like to see it ship on the install
media. 

But, if Jim wants the USB and ISO to be as slim as possible (no extras) and
it doesn’t become part of ALL, I will sadly pull it without complaint. :-(

> 
> Cheers, Eric
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 7:28 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> (I'll respond quickly here even though there's a billion follow-up
> responses already.)
> 
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
>>> wrote:
 
 I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
 
 Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
 There is a link to it on the FDI download page.
>>> 
>>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
>>> 256 MB .img).
>> 
>> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
>> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
>> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
>> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.
> 
> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
> separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
> smaller, so to those I have no complaints.
> 
 Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT
>>> 
>>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>>> unload it.   :-(
>> 
>> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
>> matter?
>> 
>> I will move it just for you. But, I’m curious why you really want to be able 
>> unload it.
>> 
>> So for the next release, I have set DOSLFN to load second to last.
>> Then finally, LBACACHE.
> 
> Sigh, no, I misunderstood that, sorry.
> 
> Of course you don't need to unload on the installer boot media. I just
> meant in general that it made no sense (to me) why you wouldn't at
> least give the user the option to unload later, if needed. It's easy
> to miss details like that, so I was just mentioning it for
> completeness.

No problem. I was a little perplexed as to why you were so insistent.
Now, it makes sense to why you kept bringing it up. Just as an 
fyi, I moved it on the boot media anyway. 

:-)

> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

> I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
> FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
> separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
> smaller, so to those I have no complaints.

FreeBasic has a rather cool QB compatibility mode and some
software in the FreeDOS distro is compiled with DJGPP, but
of course without the tons of add-ons available for DJGPP.

Not sure which coolness factor FreePascal has, but Pascal
certainly was a classic programming language of DOS users.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

(I'll respond quickly here even though there's a billion follow-up
responses already.)


On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
>> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
>>>
>>> Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
>>> There is a link to it on the FDI download page.
>>
>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
>> 256 MB .img).
>
> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.

I just don't think most people downloading FreeDOS really need FPC or
FBC or DJGPP (even if I do like them). I think they can just grab them
separately. But OW and NASM are officially recommended and much
smaller, so to those I have no complaints.

>>> Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT
>>
>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>> unload it.   :-(
>
> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
> matter?
>
> I will move it just for you. But, I’m curious why you really want to be able 
> unload it.
>
> So for the next release, I have set DOSLFN to load second to last.
> Then finally, LBACACHE.

Sigh, no, I misunderstood that, sorry.

Of course you don't need to unload on the installer boot media. I just
meant in general that it made no sense (to me) why you wouldn't at
least give the user the option to unload later, if needed. It's easy
to miss details like that, so I was just mentioning it for
completeness.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Hello Paul,

> On Feb 2, 2016, at 5:40 AM, Paul Dufresne  wrote:
> 
> I have tried the latest FDI-USB.IMG and I would almost be happy with it.
> Yes, I can now install in french fine.
> Yes, fdisk now select the D: drive that is my hard disk.
> Yes, all the installation goes fine.
> Except when I reboot, it reboot in loop.

This is probably the MBR issue. I have not yet decided on the proper 
way it should be handled.

Per Louis Santillan’s post, you can just force fdisk to update it 
with “fdisk /MBR:80” or maybe 81 for drive D:

https://sites.google.com/site/lpsantil/fdi12-msi-wind 



> My hard drive is SATA did read it should works just fine because
> FreeDOS use BIOS.
> I tried to change from SATA1+2 to SATA 1 in BIOS but then my hard
> drive disappeared, had to undo it.
> Tried OS is not plug-and-play... did not help.
> Tried removing Virtual extension, did not help.
> 
> I had chosen FAT32... and a primary partition of 4000 MB (of about 152000).
> Thinking trying not to enable large disk...
> 
> This is my main machine... writing this from Live USB key.
> Any suggestion? HP Pavillon A6000n (AMD 64).
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

Note that I still used 4000 Mb primary FAT32 (big drive?) partition.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

Ok, I open my box and literally found an old forgotten dusty
unconnected PATA 40Gb drive.
I connected it (after disconnecting SATA drive).
And reinstall FreeDOS from USB key.
Worked flawlessly this time.
At least a few seconds until I try to type 'help dir' or 'help' (as
suggested) which make the system hang... as it always did as far as I
remember.

So it seems that either FreeDOS have a problem with SATA drives, or
with big (150Gb) drives.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

I have tried the latest FDI-USB.IMG and I would almost be happy with it.
Yes, I can now install in french fine.
Yes, fdisk now select the D: drive that is my hard disk.
Yes, all the installation goes fine.
Except when I reboot, it reboot in loop.
My hard drive is SATA did read it should works just fine because
FreeDOS use BIOS.
I tried to change from SATA1+2 to SATA 1 in BIOS but then my hard
drive disappeared, had to undo it.
Tried OS is not plug-and-play... did not help.
Tried removing Virtual extension, did not help.

I had chosen FAT32... and a primary partition of 4000 MB (of about 152000).
Thinking trying not to enable large disk...

This is my main machine... writing this from Live USB key.
Any suggestion? HP Pavillon A6000n (AMD 64).

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

A side note to ALL, regarding what packages are included.

There is really no reason you cannot make your own personal customized FDI 
based release.

Two ways to do it.

The easy way:

For Floppy Image, just modify the package list files 
A:\FDSETUP\SETUP\*.LST. 
It will then include or exclude them. 

For USB image, same as above and also add and remove the packages.

The harder, but much better way, 

Create a Virtual Machine in VMware Fusion or other compatible Virtual 
Machine.

Create, two virtual flat hard disk images. First will be for the USB 
image. Second
 is a TEMP drive. Also, add a virtual CD and virtual floppy.

Boot the latest FDI floppy image. Exit the installer.

FDISK and Format both Hard Drives. (all re/boots should be done from 
FDI floppy)

Download FDI source from github and v8power tools from up.lod.bz.

Place FDI source files in D:\FDI

Place V8Power Binaries in D:\FDI\V8POWER

Create a TEMP directory on drive D: Set the Temp:

Edit the package list files in D:\FDI\SETTINGS

Change to D:\FDI

Insert repository CD image.

run mkfdi.bat

(This will turn the floppy in drive A: into the latest  version)

run mkfdi.bat usb

(this with turn drive C into the USB image)

Maybe, I will do a youtube video to demonstrate the second method. 

With the second version, you slim down or really beef up the install.
Make nearly any size USB stick. Etc.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 7:55 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi :-)
> 
>>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks
>>> to 256 MB .img).
> 
>> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
>> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
>> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
>> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.
> 
> The traditional answer would be to have a separate download which
> contains only the BASE packages and whatever is needed to install,
> such as UNZIP and the package manager :-) I would still like to
> hear what the largest packages in FDI-USB are and which packages
> of which size from Mateusz' 500 MB repository are still missing.

Many things are not included. 

Here are the current included Extra packages that are included. But,
not installed with either BASE or ALL. At present, they have not all
been verified as being able to ship with FreeDOS.

> 
> Having a separate download would make it easy for people to either
> enjoy ALL Mateusz' packages on a 500+ MB size stick without having
> to worry about DOS networking drivers (do you include ANY yet?) and
> at the same time make things quick and easy for others who simply
> want a basic install of DOS with a quick download :-)

I do get what you are saying here, 

I really don’t have the time to go through every package in his repository 
to verify they are appropriately licensed to be be included with the FreeDOS.

  1.0M Dec  4 09:36 ansimat.zip
   23K Dec  4 09:40 b64.zip
  477K Apr  5  2009 biew.zip
   89K Aug  7  2013 cpied.zip
  690K Apr  5  2009 curl.zip
  1.5M Dec  5 04:31 djgpp.zip
  5.0M Dec  4 10:11 djgpp_bn.zip
  414K Dec  5 04:33 djgpp_bs.zip
  4.7M Dec  5 04:33 djgpp_db.zip
  666K Dec  4 10:14 djgpp_fq.zip
  191K Dec  4 10:15 djgpp_fx.zip
   12M Dec  4 10:16 djgpp_gc.zip
  270K Dec  4 10:19 djgpp_mk.zip
   11M Dec  4 10:20 djgpp_ob.zip
  6.0M Dec  4 10:21 djgpp_rh.zip
  1.0M Dec  5 04:33 djgpp_tx.zip
  368K Dec  4 10:24 dos32a.zip
   29K Sep 22  2012 dosidle.zip
  376K Feb 17  2013 fasm.zip
   14M Dec  4 06:01 fbc.zip
  856K Dec  4 10:53 fbc_help.zip
   37M Dec  4 11:03 fpc.zip
  4.8K Dec 30  2008 gcdrom.zip
  231K Feb  1  2013 grep.zip
  1.4M Dec  4 11:15 jwasm.zip
  303K Feb  1  2013 less.zip
  139K Jun 17  2015 md5sum.zip
  1000 Jun 22  2015 mtcp.zip
  2.5M Jan  4 13:36 nasm.zip
  3.3M Dec  4 13:50 opengem.zip
   14M Jul 27  2014 ow.zip
  1.3M Dec  4 06:27 ozonegui.zip
  169K Apr  5  2009 part.zip
   26M Dec  4 13:57 perl.zip
  583K Dec 27 13:03 pgme.zip
  181K Nov 29 11:22 picosntp.zip
  597K Dec  4 13:35 picotcp.zip
  638K Jun 23  2013 ping.zip
  1.1M Dec  4 13:49 rsync.zip
   23K Feb 22  2009 search.zip
  3.8K Sep 22  2012 slowdos.zip
   28K Aug 16  2013 tinyaes.zip
  1.9M Dec  4 06:58 unrtf.zip
  1.9M Dec  4 12:24 upx.zip
   19K May 10  2015 utf8tocp.zip
  140K Jul 16  2013 vmsmount.zip
  551K Dec  5 04:36 vncview.zip
  2.3M Dec  4 07:05 wget.zip
   40K Apr  4  2009 xcdrom.zip
  180K Apr  5  2009 xfdisk.zip

> 
>>> 147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
>>> NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
>>> obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers.
> 
> Hm? Are the "obscures" large? Are FPC, FreeBasic, DJGPP obscure?
> 
>>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>>> unload it.   :-(
>> 
>> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
>> matter? 
> 
> Not really. Yet I agree that it is better to load FDAPM early ;-)
> 
>> The issue is not being able to check for available free space. I just don’t
>> see it as really being worth the overhead and additional complexity.
> 
>>  FDI starts, tests if there is enough freespace for minimum install.
>>  YES, continue, No, check if there would be enough if current version is 
>> removed.
>>  If not, stop telling user not enough space.
> 
> You could make it simpler: If there is enough space to install (make
> a base / all distinction) without deleting anything, be happy. If you
> have less space, warn the user: They MIGHT be able to install stuff,
> because the install will overwrite some old versions with newer ones,
> but they continue at own risk. Give the user a rough idea of free size.
> 
>>  If user wants to make a backup, make sure there will be enough room for 
>> that
>>  an the minimal install.
> 
> Can we assume that stuff is moved to backups, instead of adding backup
> size to the amount of already used disk space?
> 
>>  Based on package selection, make sure there will be enough room for that
>>  the backup.
> 
> I had the impression that you wanted to avoid individual package choices
> to keep the install simple? Of course the package manager can always be
> smart and ponder how much space is consumed by installing [list of some
> packages] but for the moment, I guess knowing how large base / full are
> shoul

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Eric Auer]

Hi :-)

>> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks
>> to 256 MB .img).

> Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
> a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
> important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
> for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.

The traditional answer would be to have a separate download which
contains only the BASE packages and whatever is needed to install,
such as UNZIP and the package manager :-) I would still like to
hear what the largest packages in FDI-USB are and which packages
of which size from Mateusz' 500 MB repository are still missing.

Having a separate download would make it easy for people to either
enjoy ALL Mateusz' packages on a 500+ MB size stick without having
to worry about DOS networking drivers (do you include ANY yet?) and
at the same time make things quick and easy for others who simply
want a basic install of DOS with a quick download :-)

>> 147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
>> NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
>> obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers.

Hm? Are the "obscures" large? Are FPC, FreeBasic, DJGPP obscure?

>> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
>> unload it.   :-(
> 
> But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it 
> matter? 

Not really. Yet I agree that it is better to load FDAPM early ;-)

> The issue is not being able to check for available free space. I just don’t
> see it as really being worth the overhead and additional complexity.

>   FDI starts, tests if there is enough freespace for minimum install.
>   YES, continue, No, check if there would be enough if current version is 
> removed.
>   If not, stop telling user not enough space.

You could make it simpler: If there is enough space to install (make
a base / all distinction) without deleting anything, be happy. If you
have less space, warn the user: They MIGHT be able to install stuff,
because the install will overwrite some old versions with newer ones,
but they continue at own risk. Give the user a rough idea of free size.

>   If user wants to make a backup, make sure there will be enough room for 
> that
>   an the minimal install.

Can we assume that stuff is moved to backups, instead of adding backup
size to the amount of already used disk space?

>   Based on package selection, make sure there will be enough room for that
>   the backup.

I had the impression that you wanted to avoid individual package choices
to keep the install simple? Of course the package manager can always be
smart and ponder how much space is consumed by installing [list of some
packages] but for the moment, I guess knowing how large base / full are
should be enough to get a rough idea in the installer, not in fdnpkg :-)

> Or:   
>   Just test for Max install size + backup size.

Yep. And maybe have a separate BASE-only download: Less disk size used
and less download bandwidth used. Plus people can always install extra
stuff later using the package manager. Either by feeding it package ZIP
files or by getting DOS networking to work.

>> http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/free-disk-space-tester-freetest.zip

A classic tool for your errorlevel based disk space usage checks ;-)

Cheers, Eric



PS: It is a bit weird that the current image has to overwrite the whole
stick, which often is a lot larger than 256 MB. How about alternatives
that you copy to already FAT formatted sticks and a tool to SYS & MBR?
I know, FAT is less popular today, but this would be nice for those who
do not want to mess up stick partitions or do not know how to redo them.



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
> wrote:
>> 
>> I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
>> 
>> Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
>> There is a link to it on the FDI download page.
> 
> I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
> 256 MB .img).

Yeah, It’s a little big. But, on the other hand it is really hard to find
a USB stick under 512mb. So, other than download size, it isn’t to
important. However, that being said. It should be under 100mb
for individuals who have very limited or expensive bandwidth.

> 
>> Extra (not BASE or ALL), uninstalled packages on USB image. (about 50 extra)
> 
> 147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
> NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
> obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers. There aren't enough
> active projects using the others to justify forcing it on all FreeDOS
> downloaders. (I take it back, DJGPP *is* useful, but there are so many
> "competing" versions that it's hard to know what to use sometimes.)
> 
> Unfortunately, anything you give here is either too much or too
> minimal. Even limiting only to DJGPP mini-FAQ tools would be quite
> large (well, especially since later GCC versions are even bigger).
> What to do, stick to a classic like 3.46? Or my own home-rolled
> "EZ-GCC v2" (2.95.3)?
> 
> Ugh, no easy answer. Without any obvious goal, I would just omit
> everything except OW and NASM. Is anyone here (or elsewhere?) actively
> fighting to keep others included here?? If not, then why include them?
> Maybe I'm overthinking things (again).

I hear you there. If the EXTRA stuff was completely removed, their
would be complaints over not just putting them on the install media.
If I leave them in, complaints about total size of the image.

So, I’ll try to pick something in the middle to make everybody unhappy.

Just kidding :-)

> 
>> Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT
> 
> But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
> unload it.   :-(

But, it is the installers boot media. Not the installed system. Does it matter? 

I will move it just for you. But, I’m curious why you really want to be able 
unload it.

So for the next release, I have set DOSLFN to load second to last. 
Then finally, LBACACHE.

> 
>> TODO: Sufficient free space is not verified prior to installation.
> 
> Would this help?

The issue is not being able to check for available free space. I just don’t
see it as really being worth the overhead and additional complexity.

example:

FDI starts, tests if there is enough freespace for minimum install.
YES, continue, No, check if there would be enough if current version is 
removed.
If not, stop telling user not enough space.

If user wants to make a backup, make sure there will be enough room for 
that
an the minimal install.

Based on package selection, make sure there will be enough room for that
the backup.

With all appropriate screens, message and such in multiple languages.

Or: 
Just test for Max install size + backup size.

Or: 
Just note at download time, full installation + backup will require NNN 
mb of free 
space. 

> 
> http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/free-disk-space-tester-freetest.zip
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:25 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
> I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11.
>
> Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location.
> There is a link to it on the FDI download page.

I just downloaded the FDI-USB.ZIP file (now 178 MB .ZIP'd, unpacks to
256 MB .img).

> Extra (not BASE or ALL), uninstalled packages on USB image. (about 50 extra)

147 MB of "DEVEL"??? Uh ... maybe I could sympathize with OW.ZIP and
NASM.ZIP (which total "only" 18 MB), but all of the rest is too
obscure (relatively speaking) for most developers. There aren't enough
active projects using the others to justify forcing it on all FreeDOS
downloaders. (I take it back, DJGPP *is* useful, but there are so many
"competing" versions that it's hard to know what to use sometimes.)

Unfortunately, anything you give here is either too much or too
minimal. Even limiting only to DJGPP mini-FAQ tools would be quite
large (well, especially since later GCC versions are even bigger).
What to do, stick to a classic like 3.46? Or my own home-rolled
"EZ-GCC v2" (2.95.3)?

Ugh, no easy answer. Without any obvious goal, I would just omit
everything except OW and NASM. Is anyone here (or elsewhere?) actively
fighting to keep others included here?? If not, then why include them?
Maybe I'm overthinking things (again).

> Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT

But LBACACHE now loads before UDVD2 and FDAPM, so you still can't
unload it.   :-(

> TODO: Sufficient free space is not verified prior to installation.

Would this help?

http://ericauer.cosmodata.virtuaserver.com.br/soft/specials/free-disk-space-tester-freetest.zip

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Feb 1, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Paul Dufresne  > wrote:
> 
> I just wrote (DD in Linux) the FDI-USB .IMG file on an USB-KEY.
> Think this was my first try to boot FreeDOS on USB key.
> Boots fine (once adjusted in BIOS).
> 
> Suprise 1) Unable to select a language different than english.
> Others are shown, but key down does not move to others.
> Did not was able (or really try) to go around that.

Oops, sorry. I don’t know why I did it. Somehow, how I managed to remove a 
line from mkFDI.bat that dynamically generates that section of code for the
installer. Since, I only use English I don’t notice. Fixed it.

> 
> Surprise 2) FDISK was at first showing the C: as the USB-Key. (LABEL
> FDI-SETUP as I remember).
> But there is an option in FDISK to change drive. Worked well.
> I stopped there because I did not really want to install on that computer.

USB as drive C and install to D is fine. So far,
I’ve had two people tell me that booting on USB was C: and 
one that it was L:.  The new way FDI does the detection stuff 
should be fine. 

But, you are correct with the default for FDISK. So, added stuff
so FDISK would select D (drive 2) at start when USB is C:

I have made both changes and pushed the updates online for 
download at http://up.lod.bz/FDI 


> 
> Might try later for real on an other.
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Paul Dufresne]

I just wrote (DD in Linux) the FDI-USB .IMG file on an USB-KEY.
Think this was my first try to boot FreeDOS on USB key.
Boots fine (once adjusted in BIOS).

Suprise 1) Unable to select a language different than english.
Others are shown, but key down does not move to others.
Did not was able (or really try) to go around that.

Surprise 2) FDISK was at first showing the C: as the USB-Key. (LABEL
FDI-SETUP as I remember).
But there is an option in FDISK to change drive. Worked well.
I stopped there because I did not really want to install on that computer.

Might try later for real on an other.

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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Preview 11

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

I just the FreeDOS 1.2 Installer Preview 11. 

http://up.load.bz/FDI/latest 

Also, a more permanent USB stick image url location. 
There is a link to it on the FDI download page. Or,
just use the direct link  http://dnld.lod.bz/FDI-USB.zip 


What’s in Preview 11.

Improved BOOT from any USB stick at any drive letter (A, B, C, D, E….)

Improved Installation Target Detection. (C or D)

Extra (not BASE or ALL), uninstalled packages on USB image. (about 50 
extra)

Welcome to FreeDOS message, converted to a installed package with NLS.
(removed language specific messages from autoexec.bat)

V8Power Tools, converted to package like any other that gets installed 
with ALL.

Additional, BOOT menu item installed (DOS low - SAFE MODE)

Moved CD driver from Installed FDCONFIG.SYS to AUTOEXEC.BAT

Other minor improvements.

What is NOT in Preview 11. (Maybe 12, beta or not at all)

Boot sector is not overwritten with boot code if it happens to be 
missing.

Sufficient free space is not verified prior to installation.

Language specific COMMAND.COM is installed. But, it is not configured 
as default.

Language specific FDCONFIG.SYS menu items.


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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 Packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

Later today (EDT), I plan on have Preview 11 done. There may be
a Preview 12 before the FreeDOS 1.2 Beta. There may not.
So far, I’ve made several changes and improvements to
the soon to come Preview 11. They include:

Improved USB stick drive letter booting and general handling.

Removed special screens for installing V8Power Tools. It 
is now just another package in ALL.

Created another build related package list. SETTINGS\PKG_XTRA.LST.
It is not used by FDI. It is used by the mkFDI.bat build utility. It
contains a list of packages that will not be installed in either
BASE or ALL. However, they will be included in USB and ISO 
images. 

Some other mkFDI.bat improvements.

Anyhow, here is the current ALL and XTRA.LST packages. Let me know
if there are any more additions you wish to see. For reference, you can
see a list of available packages on Mateusz’ repository at:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/listing.txt
 


Also, you may wish to examine the package list for the stuff that is used
by the FDI boot media.

FDI Boot Disk Image:
https://github.com/shidel/FDI/blob/master/SETTINGS/PKG_FDI.LST 
 

BASE Install Packages:
https://github.com/shidel/FDI/blob/master/SETTINGS/PKG_BASE.LST 


ALL Install Packages: (includes BASE)
https://github.com/shidel/FDI/blob/master/SETTINGS/PKG_ALL.LST 


util\v8power
util\4dos
util\doslfn
util\fdnpkg
util\memtest
util\bootfix
util\shsufdrv
util\cwsdpmi
archiver\zip
archiver\unzip
util\grep
util\tee
util\touch
util\which
util\pg
archiver\tar
archiver\gzip
archiver\bz2

EXTRA included but not installed Packages:
https://github.com/shidel/FDI/blob/master/SETTINGS/PKG_XTRA.LST 


net\mtcp
devel\nasm
devel\fpc
devel\ow
net\wget
net\rsync
net\curl


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Thomas Mueller]

Excerpts from Eric Auer:

> if Mateusz' repository has "500 MB of packages", then that
> would make a good choice for ALL as far as I am concerned:

> It easily fits on a CD and you get plenty of DOS stuff :-)

> Also, it should fit on most USB sticks as well. Maybe you
> could make a list of the LARGEST packages in the repository
> and I can tell you which seem okay to omit, if you want to
> have the distro small enough to fit even on 512 MB sticks.

> That could be a very interesting discussion for my taste :-)

Where do you find USB sticks < 4 GB nowadays?  Smallest I have is 1 GB.

But I think USB sticks started at 128 MB?

I think CDs usually have 700 MB capacity nowadays, so we don't want too much of 
that space to go to waste.

It would not be necessary to include everything on the CD in the base 
installation.

> I was wondering if we should also provide a 16 bit version. But
> remember: It is almost impossible to boot 16 bit hardware from
> CD or from USB stick, so users with such hardware will probably
> first install a BASE floppy distro and then use FDNPKG to add
> packages manually by individual choice anyway. So it might be
> better to include ONLY the 32 bit version of NASM 2.11.08 :-)

I think most 16-bit computers had no CD(-ROM) drive?   The days when 
motherboards supported 16-bit CPUs predate USB, as far as I know.

So only a small minority of users would use 16-bit NASM.

I wonder how a 16-bit computer would exchange data with a modern computer.  
Maybe Ethernet with FTP or NFS?

FreeBSD, NetBSD and most (?) Linux distributions include software for 
rebuilding the system, so including such software, such as Open Watcom is quite 
appropriate.

Networking and USB are much more critical than in the heyday of (MS-, PC-, 
DR-)DOS, and FreeDOS 1.2 needs to be reasonably usable for today's computers.

So a FreeDOS base system needs to be suitable to current needs rather than the 
1990s.

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 1:56 AM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:
>
> Excerpt from Rugxulo:
>
>> > Well maybe it would also be nice to have some BASH, such
>> > as the DJGPP one - both shell and script language... :-)
>
>> Nah. Their Bash is ancient (2.05b), not well-supported by anyone
>> anymore. Most DJGPP stuff mandatorily has to be cross-compiled
>> anyways, for various reasons.
>
> I just checked in NetBSD pkgsrc and FreeBSD ports, bash is at v4.3.

At risk of stating the obvious, there is no (DJGPP Bash) maintainer,
plus DOS does not have fork(), which means it's a bit harder to port
such shells to non-POSIX systems. Anyways, I'm not sure if many GNU
projects left still have (even accidental) support for DJGPP. GNU
Emacs is still supported due to Eli Z. Other stuff? Not so much. We're
lucky to get anything anymore. It's much less attractive with no
universal Win9x or NTVDM. So we're not even as popular as during the
old days.

> If DJGPP stuff has to be cross-compiled, what OS would it be cross-compilable 
> from, and with what tools?

Usually they use XP or Vista (via NTVDM), but sometimes they use
Linux. There's always an official Linux-hosted cross-compiler (usually
.RPM) on DJGPP mirrors. As Louis mentioned, there's also some other
less official cross-compilers by Andrew Wu. (I seem to still have his
Windows-hosted GCC 4.9.2 here.)

> Can FreeDOS base OS and added software be cross-compiled from Linux, NetBSD 
> or FreeBSD, and with what?

Not really. Some of it (e.g. kernel) can be cross-compiled with
OpenWatcom, but a lot of it is unmaintained legacy that requires Turbo
C or similar non-free tools. Not sure if *BSD Linux emulation is
enough to run OW unmodified or if you have to rebuild it with native
compiler.

> There is the added problem that 16-bit would be needed, and I believe GCC 
> only compiles for 32- and 64-bit.

OpenWatcom supports 16-bit or 32-bit. DJGPP is 32-bit only. A lot of
stuff is also written in NASM (usually 16-bit).

> I suppose a user of Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD, or even MS-Windows or Mac OS X, 
> could compile, using DOS tools, from DOSBox?

DOSBox is "only for games", max. 64 MB RAM, so it's not ideal by any
stretch for compiling. One time I tried (TDE with DJGPP) and it was
like 20x slower than NTVDM or DOSEMU. Not recommended at all. Again,
just use OpenWatcom or cross DJGPP.

> Though DOSBox is not as sturdy as straight native DOS, and FreeDOS 1.1 
> installer would not run from DOSBox (I tried);
> installer insisted on FreeCOM command interpreter.
>
> Just for comparison, there are tools by which ReactOS can be cross-compiled 
> from (quasi)-Unix, which would include
> Linux and the BSDs, from what I read on ReactOS website (reactos.org).

ReactOS 0.4.0rc2 is out, and it improves NTVDM to the point where they
can now run Duke Nukem 3D (among others).

> FreeDOS is supposed to support very old, pre-80386 computers capable of 
> running (MS-, DR- or PC-)DOS,
> hence the need for 16-bit support, but we don't want to hold back users of 
> computers with 32-bit or 64-bit CPUs

DJGPP has existed since 1989. Nobody is stopping anyone from using it.
The kernel is a separate matter, though.

> who could better run 32-bit.

There is no huge benefit to being totally 32-bit here (esp. in the
kernel). We have bigger problems (like USB or sound or networking or
power management or file systems). Actually, I'd say UEFI (without
CSM) is a bigger problem.

> In my case, my main use for FreeDOS would be for things like BIOS/UEFI 
> updates and hard-drive diagnostics.
> My Ethernet is apparently too recent for any packet driver, and from previous 
> posts on FreeDOS lists, my audio
> (Intel HD audio) has no DOS support.

Feel free to contact your hardware rep, and tell them to support DOS.
(Actually, don't. They won't listen anyways.)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Louis Santillan]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 11:56 PM, Thomas Mueller 
wrote:
>
> Excerpt from Rugxulo:
>
> > > Well maybe it would also be nice to have some BASH, such
> > > as the DJGPP one - both shell and script language... :-)
>
> > Nah. Their Bash is ancient (2.05b), not well-supported by anyone
> > anymore. Most DJGPP stuff mandatorily has to be cross-compiled
> > anyways, for various reasons.
>
> I just checked in NetBSD pkgsrc and FreeBSD ports, bash is at v4.3.
>
> If DJGPP stuff has to be cross-compiled, what OS would it be
> cross-compilable from, and with what tools?
>

DJGPP cross-compiles from Windows XP [0] or Linux [1].  I don't believe
anyone has made a serious attempt on DOS 7/FreeDOS+doslfn.  I've used the
Linux cross-compilers to build a working lz4 for dos [2].

[0] http://www.delorie.com/archives/browse.cgi?p=djgpp/2015/10/19/16:39:44
[1] https://github.com/andrewwutw/build-djgpp/releases
[2] https://github.com/Cyan4973/lz4/tree/master/contrib/djgpp
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Thomas Mueller]

Excerpt from Rugxulo:

> > Well maybe it would also be nice to have some BASH, such
> > as the DJGPP one - both shell and script language... :-)

> Nah. Their Bash is ancient (2.05b), not well-supported by anyone
> anymore. Most DJGPP stuff mandatorily has to be cross-compiled
> anyways, for various reasons.

I just checked in NetBSD pkgsrc and FreeBSD ports, bash is at v4.3.

If DJGPP stuff has to be cross-compiled, what OS would it be cross-compilable 
from, and with what tools?

Can FreeDOS base OS and added software be cross-compiled from Linux, NetBSD or 
FreeBSD, and with what?  There is the added problem that 16-bit would be 
needed, and I believe GCC only compiles for 32- and 64-bit.

I suppose a user of Linux, FreeBSD or NetBSD, or even MS-Windows or Mac OS X, 
could compile, using DOS tools, from DOSBox?

Though DOSBox is not as sturdy as straight native DOS, and FreeDOS 1.1 
installer would not run from DOSBox (I tried); installer insisted on FreeCOM 
command interpreter.

Just for comparison, there are tools by which ReactOS can be cross-compiled 
from (quasi)-Unix, which would include Linux and the BSDs, from what I read on 
ReactOS website (reactos.org).

FreeDOS is supposed to support very old, pre-80386 computers capable of running 
(MS-, DR- or PC-)DOS, hence the need for 16-bit support, but we don't want to 
hold back users of computers with 32-bit or 64-bit CPUs who could better run 
32-bit.

In my case, my main use for FreeDOS would be for things like BIOS/UEFI updates 
and hard-drive diagnostics.  My Ethernet is apparently too recent for any 
packet driver, and from previous posts on FreeDOS lists, my audio (Intel HD 
audio) has no DOS support.

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 9:07 PM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
>
> Ps: For those wondering why I can't do the core utillity:
>
> In 2015 I made a school report about MS-DOS. After that (I just did!) Iooked
> at some MS-DOS sources. I mailed to Jim that I had been reading it. He
> doesn't want me to work on any core utillity. I give him right, but well, I
> wanted to ,somewhere in time, help with some core utillity's.
> But for now I can't do that.

Maarten, I doubt you have "tainted" your brain permanently by glancing
at a few obsolete sources. Ideas can't be patented or copyrighted, so
as long as you don't copy code verbatim, it's probably fine. Anybody
who tries to harass you (or us) about general ideas is certainly a
criminal and should be punished.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

[Maarten Vermeulen]

Hi Mateusz,

Thank you, I will read all. I start as soon as possible (either this evening or 
tommorrow)


Maarten

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Mateusz Viste" 
Verzonden: ‎4-‎1-‎2016 08:24
Aan: "freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

Hi Maarten,

Thank you for your time. The packaging work is pretty straigh-forward - 
it's simply "look at what packages we have, and see if any newer 
versions are available and/or if any other interesting and useful 
software could be added".

All packages are here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/

The "listing.txt" file will show you the exact list of packages, as well 
as their respective versions. Then, it's much searching around the 
internet/ibiblio/other to find out "what is the latest version of 
software xyz" - and if the one in the repo is outdated, creating a new 
package.

 From the top of my head, I now that these packages badly need a refresh:
  - DJGPP
  - FreeBASIC
  - FreePascal
  - Frotz

But surely there are many more.

Here is a short article that explains what a "package" is, and how it 
should be done:
http://freedos.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Package

Finally, about the bootable CD work - it's at the same place, ie:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/

The "all_cd.iso" file is the bootable CD I used so far. It would need 
Jerome's installer to be integrated, and, well, much testing. The 
bootable floppy image used to boot the CD is here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/cdroot/boot.img

cheers,
Mateusz



On 04/01/2016 04:07, Maarten Vermeulen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> That 4th one is always fun, I happend to be searching for boot images
> (single ones) which could boot a CD yesterday. Couldn't find one in
> anyway I tried.
>
> I have (I believe) the abillity to do everything from 2 to 4. Sorry for
> my bad english.
> Unless autoexec.bat is a core utillity, I can do that too, maybe. I am
> sure about 2,3 and 4.
>
> If one is remaining you can give it to me (assuming autoexec.bat is a
> core utillity and so I can't do that), if you want me to choose here and
> now. Then I choose 3.
>
> If Mateusz is reading now, please can you send a mail with what needs to
> be done and some instructions how you should want it to happen. I choose
> 3, now.
>
>
> Maarten
>
> Ps: For those wondering why I can't do the core utillity:
>
> In 2015 I made a school report about MS-DOS. After that (I just did!)
> Iooked at some MS-DOS sources. I mailed to Jim that I had been reading
> it. He doesn't want me to work on any core utillity. I give him right,
> but well, I wanted to ,somewhere in time, help with some core utillity's.
> But for now I can't do that.
> 
> Van: Jerome E. Shidel Jr. <mailto:jer...@shidel.net>
> Verzonden: ‎3-‎1-‎2016 23:12
> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
> <mailto:freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta
>
> The new FreeDOS batch file based installer (FDI) has been done for a
> while now and
> I have used it to install FreeDOS multiple times. Since, it just uses
> Mateusz’s repo disc
> image for packages and is not FreeDOS 1.1, I consider it a FreeDOS 1.2
> preview/alpha
> version.
>
> It would be nice to have a FreeDOS 1.2 Beta Release sometime soon. Then
> a RC and
> Final version sometime thereafter.
>
> So, to the best of my knowledge this is what needs to be completed.
> (Not by me!)
>
> 1) Universally compatible simple fdconfig.sys an autoexec.bat file that
> is installed by FDI.
>
> The present one that is created is has limited compatibility. For
> example, boot option 1
> is not compatible with VirtualBox. Someone needs to take a look at them
> and provide the
> needed changes. One additional consideration is regarding language and
> codepage
> support. FDI can automatically include custom settings for these when
> creating a new
> autoexec.bat based on the user’s selected language. If these settings
> are to be included,
> they need to be provided and placed in a custom SETLANG.BAT file for the
> specific
> language. FDI will embed them into the new autoexec file during the
> installation.
>
> 2) List of packages for BASE and ALL.
>
> I have tried to make BASE as close to the what was in FreeDOS 1.1.
> I have no clue what to put into ALL for 1.2.
>
> 3) Assist Mateusz in bringing all of his packages up to th

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

[Mateusz Viste]

Hi Maarten,

Thank you for your time. The packaging work is pretty straigh-forward - 
it's simply "look at what packages we have, and see if any newer 
versions are available and/or if any other interesting and useful 
software could be added".

All packages are here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/

The "listing.txt" file will show you the exact list of packages, as well 
as their respective versions. Then, it's much searching around the 
internet/ibiblio/other to find out "what is the latest version of 
software xyz" - and if the one in the repo is outdated, creating a new 
package.

 From the top of my head, I now that these packages badly need a refresh:
  - DJGPP
  - FreeBASIC
  - FreePascal
  - Frotz

But surely there are many more.

Here is a short article that explains what a "package" is, and how it 
should be done:
http://freedos.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Package

Finally, about the bootable CD work - it's at the same place, ie:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/

The "all_cd.iso" file is the bootable CD I used so far. It would need 
Jerome's installer to be integrated, and, well, much testing. The 
bootable floppy image used to boot the CD is here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/1.1/repos/cdroot/boot.img

cheers,
Mateusz



On 04/01/2016 04:07, Maarten Vermeulen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> That 4th one is always fun, I happend to be searching for boot images
> (single ones) which could boot a CD yesterday. Couldn't find one in
> anyway I tried.
>
> I have (I believe) the abillity to do everything from 2 to 4. Sorry for
> my bad english.
> Unless autoexec.bat is a core utillity, I can do that too, maybe. I am
> sure about 2,3 and 4.
>
> If one is remaining you can give it to me (assuming autoexec.bat is a
> core utillity and so I can't do that), if you want me to choose here and
> now. Then I choose 3.
>
> If Mateusz is reading now, please can you send a mail with what needs to
> be done and some instructions how you should want it to happen. I choose
> 3, now.
>
>
> Maarten
>
> Ps: For those wondering why I can't do the core utillity:
>
> In 2015 I made a school report about MS-DOS. After that (I just did!)
> Iooked at some MS-DOS sources. I mailed to Jim that I had been reading
> it. He doesn't want me to work on any core utillity. I give him right,
> but well, I wanted to ,somewhere in time, help with some core utillity's.
> But for now I can't do that.
> 
> Van: Jerome E. Shidel Jr. <mailto:jer...@shidel.net>
> Verzonden: ‎3-‎1-‎2016 23:12
> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
> <mailto:freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta
>
> The new FreeDOS batch file based installer (FDI) has been done for a
> while now and
> I have used it to install FreeDOS multiple times. Since, it just uses
> Mateusz’s repo disc
> image for packages and is not FreeDOS 1.1, I consider it a FreeDOS 1.2
> preview/alpha
> version.
>
> It would be nice to have a FreeDOS 1.2 Beta Release sometime soon. Then
> a RC and
> Final version sometime thereafter.
>
> So, to the best of my knowledge this is what needs to be completed.
> (Not by me!)
>
> 1) Universally compatible simple fdconfig.sys an autoexec.bat file that
> is installed by FDI.
>
> The present one that is created is has limited compatibility. For
> example, boot option 1
> is not compatible with VirtualBox. Someone needs to take a look at them
> and provide the
> needed changes. One additional consideration is regarding language and
> codepage
> support. FDI can automatically include custom settings for these when
> creating a new
> autoexec.bat based on the user’s selected language. If these settings
> are to be included,
> they need to be provided and placed in a custom SETLANG.BAT file for the
> specific
> language. FDI will embed them into the new autoexec file during the
> installation.
>
> 2) List of packages for BASE and ALL.
>
> I have tried to make BASE as close to the what was in FreeDOS 1.1.
> I have no clue what to put into ALL for 1.2.
>
> 3) Assist Mateusz in bringing all of his packages up to there latest
> versions.
>
> 4) Assemble a Boot CD that contains the installer and the FreeDOS packages.
>
>


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

[Maarten Vermeulen]

Hi,

That 4th one is always fun, I happend to be searching for boot images (single 
ones) which could boot a CD yesterday. Couldn't find one in anyway I tried.

I have (I believe) the abillity to do everything from 2 to 4. Sorry for my bad 
english.
Unless autoexec.bat is a core utillity, I can do that too, maybe. I am sure 
about 2,3 and 4.

If one is remaining you can give it to me (assuming autoexec.bat is a core 
utillity and so I can't do that), if you want me to choose here and now. Then I 
choose 3.

If Mateusz is reading now, please can you send a mail with what needs to be 
done and some instructions how you should want it to happen. I choose 3, now. 


Maarten

Ps: For those wondering why I can't do the core utillity:

In 2015 I made a school report about MS-DOS. After that (I just did!) Iooked at 
some MS-DOS sources. I mailed to Jim that I had been reading it. He doesn't 
want me to work on any core utillity. I give him right, but well, I wanted to 
,somewhere in time, help with some core utillity's. 
But for now I can't do that.


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Jerome E. Shidel Jr." 
Verzonden: ‎3-‎1-‎2016 23:12
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

The new FreeDOS batch file based installer (FDI) has been done for a while now 
and
I have used it to install FreeDOS multiple times. Since, it just uses Mateusz’s 
repo disc
image for packages and is not FreeDOS 1.1, I consider it a FreeDOS 1.2 
preview/alpha
version.

It would be nice to have a FreeDOS 1.2 Beta Release sometime soon. Then a RC and
Final version sometime thereafter.

So, to the best of my knowledge this is what needs to be completed. 
(Not by me!)

1) Universally compatible simple fdconfig.sys an autoexec.bat file that is 
installed by FDI.

The present one that is created is has limited compatibility. For 
example, boot option 1
is not compatible with VirtualBox. Someone needs to take a look at them 
and provide the
needed changes. One additional consideration is regarding language and 
codepage 
support. FDI can automatically include custom settings for these when 
creating a new 
autoexec.bat based on the user’s selected language. If these settings 
are to be included, 
they need to be provided and placed in a custom SETLANG.BAT file for 
the specific 
language. FDI will embed them into the new autoexec file during the 
installation. 

2) List of packages for BASE and ALL. 

I have tried to make BASE as close to the what was in FreeDOS 1.1.
I have no clue what to put into ALL for 1.2.

3) Assist Mateusz in bringing all of his packages up to there latest versions.

4) Assemble a Boot CD that contains the installer and the FreeDOS packages.


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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 beta

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

The new FreeDOS batch file based installer (FDI) has been done for a while now 
and
I have used it to install FreeDOS multiple times. Since, it just uses Mateusz’s 
repo disc
image for packages and is not FreeDOS 1.1, I consider it a FreeDOS 1.2 
preview/alpha
version.

It would be nice to have a FreeDOS 1.2 Beta Release sometime soon. Then a RC and
Final version sometime thereafter.

So, to the best of my knowledge this is what needs to be completed. 
(Not by me!)

1) Universally compatible simple fdconfig.sys an autoexec.bat file that is 
installed by FDI.

The present one that is created is has limited compatibility. For 
example, boot option 1
is not compatible with VirtualBox. Someone needs to take a look at them 
and provide the
needed changes. One additional consideration is regarding language and 
codepage 
support. FDI can automatically include custom settings for these when 
creating a new 
autoexec.bat based on the user’s selected language. If these settings 
are to be included, 
they need to be provided and placed in a custom SETLANG.BAT file for 
the specific 
language. FDI will embed them into the new autoexec file during the 
installation. 

2) List of packages for BASE and ALL. 

I have tried to make BASE as close to the what was in FreeDOS 1.1.
I have no clue what to put into ALL for 1.2.

3) Assist Mateusz in bringing all of his packages up to there latest versions.

4) Assemble a Boot CD that contains the installer and the FreeDOS packages.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> while DJGPP is rather large, in particular if you include
> lots of sub-packages, I think FPC (Pascal) and FreeBASIC
> can be a lot smaller to install and OpenWatcom C in the
> middle... Also, I would assume that LFN drivers are part
> of the ALL install, so why not install ALL compilers? :-)
> In particular, FreeBASIC has a nice QBASIC dialect mode.

I'll have to take a closer look (again).

But OW is already covered, the 14 MB .ZIP (full DOS-only install of
everything) is latest 1.9, so it's already up-to-date.

FBC.ZIP is 0.90.0 and FPC.ZIP is 2.6.0. Neither of those is totally
horribly outdated, but of course newer versions exist. I'm not sure
how to perfectly handle it. Of course FBC is much leaner by nature,
not having or needing its own installer. FPC really worries me because
it has so many (admittedly, optional) files.

I think making a package for DJGPP is almost a lost cause because
there are so many pieces. And like is already obvious, FBC and (less
so) FPC rely on that, hence the complexity.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Tom Ehlert]

> while DJGPP is rather large, in particular if you include
> lots of sub-packages, I think FPC (Pascal) and FreeBASIC
> can be a lot smaller to install and OpenWatcom C in the
> middle... Also, I would assume that LFN drivers are part
> of the ALL install, so why not install ALL compilers? :-)

because few people use ALL compilers. there  are awful many compilers
for DOS

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/


Parent DirectoryDirectory
agena/  2014-Dec-26 10:49:11-   Directory
asm/2013-Jun-26 12:54:06-   Directory
awk/2015-Jul-25 21:09:39-   Directory
basic/  2007-Nov-28 11:30:33-   Directory

bcc/2012-Sep-20 06:35:51-   Directory
cc386/  2014-May-28 12:47:14-   Directory
lcc/2012-Sep-13 15:11:00-   Directory
micro-c/2012-Sep-13 15:10:46-   Directory
openwatcom/ 2010-Jun-29 02:06:02-   Directory
pacific/2000-Jul-17 10:54:07-   Directory
picoc/  2012-Jul-05 11:40:55-   Directory

https://github.com/alexfru/SmallerC

euphoria/   2011-Jul-27 16:43:08-   Directory
forth/  2012-Jan-25 11:27:26-   Directory
harbour/2011-Jul-28 18:13:46-   Directory
icon/   2012-Nov-07 17:52:11-   Directory
lisp/   2012-Dec-16 15:32:43-   Directory
lua/2013-Aug-20 08:40:17-   Directory
modula2/2000-Jul-17 10:52:47-   Directory
pascal/ 2013-Mar-26 20:37:24-   Directory
perl/   2007-Oct-20 13:50:16-   Directory
python/ 2012-Mar-27 11:00:17-   Directory
rexx/   2012-Oct-26 15:00:37-   Directory
ruby/   2012-Apr-16 19:34:04-   Directory
seed7/  2014-May-24 21:35:18-   Directory
tcl/2012-Oct-22 18:30:09-   Directory
waba/   2006-Feb-06 20:20:35-   Directory


besides this, crosscompiling (from Windows) is almost always easier
then developing from DOS natively. at least that's my nsh opinion.


Tom


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Eric Auer]

Hi Rugxulo,

while DJGPP is rather large, in particular if you include
lots of sub-packages, I think FPC (Pascal) and FreeBASIC
can be a lot smaller to install and OpenWatcom C in the
middle... Also, I would assume that LFN drivers are part
of the ALL install, so why not install ALL compilers? :-)
In particular, FreeBASIC has a nice QBASIC dialect mode.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> On 21/12/2015 00:02, Rugxulo wrote:
>
>>> devel\fpc
>>
>> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.
>
> Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This
> is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for
> volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely
> unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?

Mateusz, "current" DJGPP, at minimum, would be roughly 40 MB (.ZIP'd
!!). And that's ignoring tons of sources (which can't be rebuilt atop
DOS anyways). Plus keep in mind that six months ago, the "recommended"
set was still 4.7.3 and 2.03p2 (not 5.3 and 2.05)! So things do
change, sometimes too slowly, other times too quickly. Upgrading is
always a mess.

FPC has some (but not all) things that won't install (fully, if at
all) without LFNs. Sure, the minimal set should work with SFNs, but I
don't know about all the extras. It's hard to ignore because someone
might complain. Then again, LFNs aren't always a great idea either (as
you have acknowledged).

FreeBASIC is loosely based upon DJGPP's libc and tools anyways, much
moreso than FPC. So it has the same problems.

It's easy to whip up a quick package, even for latest "stable"
release, but would it be any good? Would anyone use it? And how long
until we have to refresh it (yet again)? It's just very tedious work
for very little gain.

"Nobody cares" is probably accurate. There aren't a lot of developers,
and the few that exist must not need (or want) a proper FDNPKG
"package". As much as I like FDNPKG and think it's great, I also don't
want to pretend that it solves all problems.

Please don't be discouraged by this, but we just can't have everything.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:52 AM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
>>
 devel\fpc
>>>
>>> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.
>>
>> Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This
>> is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for
>> volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely
>> unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?
>
> I hear you there. I get almost no feedback on what packages need to be
> in BASE. Or even, what would like to be seen in ALL. Very disappointing.
>
> I hope that most of them are at least the latest “Stable” release.

Barring any blatant errors or things that Jim Hall missed, it's not
worth worrying about. He didn't want to change anything until well
after 1.2, so that's probably what will happen. (The biggest problem
isn't just lack of volunteers, it's that even the rare stuff we do
still get is highly unmaintained, almost abandonware. So we have to
round off the rough edges ourselves, which is tedious.)

I do still worry about some of the licensing (and the onus of
rebuilding), but it's mostly a lost cause at this late stage in the
game. Theoretical problems just aren't urgent enough, I suppose, to
delay real work. We'll have to worry about other real problems when
they actually appear.

As for "stable" releases, I'm afraid there are very few things that I
could reasonably call "stable". Sure, some of it works, but that
doesn't mean it's bug-free or well-maintained. Paradoxically, we're
lucky to have anything work anymore, despite our best efforts.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:52 AM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> 
> On 21/12/2015 00:02, Rugxulo wrote:
>>> util\fdnpkg
>> 
>> Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)
> 
> Good catch! I did release (silently) FDNPKG to v0.99.4 yesterday. Since 
> it contains nothing big from the user's point of view, I didn't feel 
> that it justify announcing it anywhere. But yes, here it is :)

Yeah, I saw you pushed it out about 2 hours before I did another Preview 
release of FDI. So, I pulled it down. Made sure it was working. Then
used it on the Preview Release. :-)

> 
>>> devel\fpc
>> 
>> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.
> 
> Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This 
> is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for 
> volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely 
> unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?

I hear you there. I get almost no feedback on what packages need to be
in BASE. Or even, what would like to be seen in ALL. Very disappointing.

I hope that most of them are at least the latest “Stable” release.

> 
> Mateusz
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Dec 20, 2015, at 6:02 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
> wrote:
>> 
>> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
>> 
>> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
>> 
>> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
>> 
>> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them 
>> here to
>> shorten the list.
>> 
>> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
>> net\mtcp
> 
>> util\4dos
> 
> (I know some people can't live without this. I just hate the idea that
> it somehow taints the whole bunch due to ambiguous license.)
> 
>> util\doslfn
> 
> Which version? 0.41c?

The packages and versions assume just using the ones available on
 Mateusz’s FreeDOS Package Repository. 
(repeat for all version questions).

The new batch file based FreeDOS Installer (FDI) is finished. It is only waiting
on the package lists to be completed. Once that is done, the install media 
can be assembled and it can go into beta testing. While it is waiting on those
lists, I will be adding submitted language translations for the installer.

> 
>> util\fdnpkg
> 
> Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)
> 
>> util\memtest
> 
> Uh, you mean Eric's old patched version? Version??
> 
>> util\bootfix
>> util\shsufdrv
> 
> BTW, the licensing is slightly ambiguous here (IMO), but Jason Hood
> told me that it's "zlib".
> 
>> util\cwsdpmi
> 
> Please make sure r7 only (although including both r5 2008 and r7
> wouldn't be the worst idea, but I seriously don't know of any obvious
> reason to do that).
> 
>> archiver\zip
> 
> 2.32? (I still don't know why we never "officially" had 3.00, not that
> it majorly matters.)
> 
>> archiver\unzip
> 
> 6.00?
> 
>> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
>> util\grep
> 
> Xgrep? (No LFNs, no *nix globbing, but it's very small!)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=xgrep
> 
>> archiver\tar
> 
> Which? ("UTIL" does include an ancient 16-bit one.)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=tar
> 
>> archiver\gzip
> 
> Which? (I'm assuming only the old 16-bit one and not the 386+ DJGPP build.)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=gzip
> 
>> archiver\bz2
> 
> (386+ DJGPP only)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=bzip2
> 
>> devel\nasm
> 
> Which? Latest is 2.11.08.
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=nasm
> http://www.nasm.us/
> 
>> devel\fpc
> 
> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet. It
> would be quite large (which is annoying), but perhaps LZMA (which
> Mateusz dislikes) would mitigate that.
> 
>> net\wget
> 
> Michael Kostylev made a (slightly) newer version semi-recently, but I
> have no idea if he included all patches or not (as things like that
> are a pain to rebuild). So I'm not honestly sure if 1.11 is that much
> worse than 1.12 (and certainly the latter is much larger). (He also
> rebuilt Curl, but I have the same worries. I may just mirror them to
> iBiblio anyways, lacking any direct proof of error.)
> 
> http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=14569
> 
>> net\rsync
> 
> Dunno if that's even available, can't remember, never tried it. EDIT:
> Here's what we seem to have (but it's not officially listed under
> "NET", apparently):
> 
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/net/rsync/
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Dec 20, 2015, at 5:45 PM, Antony Gordon  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> An assembler and a Pascal compiler. Missing BASIC and C/C++.
> 
> 

I don’t use Basic or C(s). :-)

> That would make the programming languages complete. You should probably 
> mention sources for all packages in the "everything" install.
> 
There are 4 types of package install that FDI performs.

Basic.
Basic w/Sources.

All.
All w/Sources.

All does not mean everything plus sources. Since most users won’t care about 
having the sources, they are not automatically
installed unless the user wants them.
> Base should just reference that the sources are on the install media. IIRC, 
> most Linux distributions don't specifically install the source code unless 
> requested by the end user.
> 
> -T
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 4:55 PM Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
> 
> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
> 
> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
> 
> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them here 
> to
> shorten the list.
> 
> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
> net\mtcp
> util\4dos
> util\doslfn
> util\fdnpkg
> util\memtest
> util\bootfix
> util\shsufdrv
> util\cwsdpmi
> archiver\zip
> archiver\unzip
> 
> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
> util\grep
> archiver\tar
> archiver\gzip
> archiver\bz2
> devel\nasm
> devel\fpc
> net\wget
> net\rsync
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Mateusz Viste]

On 21/12/2015 00:02, Rugxulo wrote:
>> util\fdnpkg
>
> Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)

Good catch! I did release (silently) FDNPKG to v0.99.4 yesterday. Since 
it contains nothing big from the user's point of view, I didn't feel 
that it justify announcing it anywhere. But yes, here it is :)

>> devel\fpc
>
> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.

Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This 
is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for 
volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely 
unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?

Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 BASE packages

[Mateusz Viste]

On 20/12/2015 23:48, Rugxulo wrote:
> ("BASE" does have both "uide" and "xmgr" but not "udvd2", so I'm not
> sure why we don't just combine all that RDISK+UIDE+XMGR (etc.) into
> one package)

I think that was me who exploded this into different packages. The 
rationale was that when users look for a package, they look for 
something that performs a given function - being a ramdisk, or CD 
driver, or memory manager... Having all of these bundled in one package 
lowers the visibility of what it actually contains. The only reason it 
comes all together 'upstream' is because it comes from the same 
developer, but that's not enough of a reason in my opinion to keep it 
bundled as a single FreeDOS package.

Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
>
> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
>
> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
>
> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them here 
> to
> shorten the list.
>
> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
> net\mtcp

> util\4dos

(I know some people can't live without this. I just hate the idea that
it somehow taints the whole bunch due to ambiguous license.)

> util\doslfn

Which version? 0.41c?

> util\fdnpkg

Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)

> util\memtest

Uh, you mean Eric's old patched version? Version??

> util\bootfix
> util\shsufdrv

BTW, the licensing is slightly ambiguous here (IMO), but Jason Hood
told me that it's "zlib".

> util\cwsdpmi

Please make sure r7 only (although including both r5 2008 and r7
wouldn't be the worst idea, but I seriously don't know of any obvious
reason to do that).

> archiver\zip

2.32? (I still don't know why we never "officially" had 3.00, not that
it majorly matters.)

> archiver\unzip

6.00?

> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
> util\grep

Xgrep? (No LFNs, no *nix globbing, but it's very small!)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=xgrep

> archiver\tar

Which? ("UTIL" does include an ancient 16-bit one.)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=tar

> archiver\gzip

Which? (I'm assuming only the old 16-bit one and not the 386+ DJGPP build.)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=gzip

> archiver\bz2

(386+ DJGPP only)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=bzip2

> devel\nasm

Which? Latest is 2.11.08.

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=nasm
http://www.nasm.us/

> devel\fpc

3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet. It
would be quite large (which is annoying), but perhaps LZMA (which
Mateusz dislikes) would mitigate that.

> net\wget

Michael Kostylev made a (slightly) newer version semi-recently, but I
have no idea if he included all patches or not (as things like that
are a pain to rebuild). So I'm not honestly sure if 1.11 is that much
worse than 1.12 (and certainly the latter is much larger). (He also
rebuilt Curl, but I have the same worries. I may just mirror them to
iBiblio anyways, lacking any direct proof of error.)

http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=14569

> net\rsync

Dunno if that's even available, can't remember, never tried it. EDIT:
Here's what we seem to have (but it's not officially listed under
"NET", apparently):

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/net/rsync/

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 BASE packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Antony Gordon  wrote:
>
> Given the changes in DOS since 2.X until now, Edlin and EXE2BIN should be
> optional. DOS 5 replaced Edlin with EDIT and EXE2BIN wasn't included with
> DOS after 3.3 or 4.01.

DOS also stopped providing LINK.EXE around that time, too. Presumably
all the development tools were better found elsewhere (bundled with MS
C or whatever). I didn't think EXE2BIN was useful at all without some
kind of assembler or compiler, but people here seemed to disagree with
me. (This particular one comes from OpenWatcom 1.5 anyways, so )

> Which memory manager offers the most compatibility? FDXMS or HIMEMX?

Presumably HIMEMX. Not sure that FDXMS has been as widely tested
(although nothing is anymore, sigh).

I just wonder which version is Jerome including (3.32? 3.34?). Anyone
have a strong preference either way? (I'd obviously suggest 3.34, but
again, I don't know how widely tested it's been. Just having that 386
patch is good but not necessarily good enough to prefer it
exclusively.)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 BASE packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi, I don't know how useful this is (esp. this late in the release
process), but 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
> This is the list of the BASE Packages for the FDI installer.
>
> Please let me know if I left anything out or should remove something.
>
> base\append
> base\assign
> base\attrib
> base\chkdsk
> base\choice
> base\command
> base\comp

base\country ? (but isn't it included in kernel?)

> base\cpidos

> base\ctmouse

(eventually we need to replace bundled com2exe, which AFAIK isn't
majorly useful)

> base\debug
> base\defrag

> base\deltree

(make sure this isn't UPX'd as 186+ only)

> base\devload
> base\diskcomp
> base\diskcopy
> base\display
> base\dosfsck
> base\edit
> base\edlin

> base\exe2bin

(I still say nobody needs exe2bin)

base\fasthelp? (probably not majorly needed)

> base\fc
> base\fdapm
> base\fdisk

(which fdisk? FD only? no XFdisk? I also need to reinvestigate SPFdisk
one of these days)

> base\find

(this LFN version is still buggy, AFAIR)

> base\format

> base\fdxms

(fdxms is technically not listed in "BASE" but whatever)

> base\fdxms286

base\graphics? (but I doubt most people have compatible printers anyways)

> base\help

> base\jemm

(probably should remove JLOAD and *.JLM first)

> base\himemx

> base\kernel

(this should also have SHARE and COUNTRY, right?)

> base\keyb
> base\keyb_lay

(aka, base\kpdos?)

base\kc?

> base\label
> base\lbacache
> base\mem
> base\mirror
> base\mkeyb

> base\mode

(I guess not to wait for this minor bugfix release)

> base\more

> base\move

(sigh, we still never fixed the +r bug)

> base\nansi
> base\nlsfunc
> base\print
> base\rdisk

> base\recover

(I seriously question the usefulness of RECOVER, I doubt anyone would miss it)

> base\replace

> base\share

(isn't the one bundled with the kernel preferred? what still needs
this, Win3x??)

> base\shsucdx
> base\sort

> base\swsubst

(does this work at all anymore??)

> base\tree
> base\undelete
> base\unformat
> base\xcopy

> base\xmgr
> util\udvd2

("BASE" does have both "uide" and "xmgr" but not "udvd2", so I'm not
sure why we don't just combine all that RDISK+UIDE+XMGR (etc.) into
one package)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Antony Gordon]

Hi,

An assembler and a Pascal compiler. Missing BASIC and C/C++.

That would make the programming languages complete. You should probably
mention sources for all packages in the "everything" install.

Base should just reference that the sources are on the install media. IIRC,
most Linux distributions don't specifically install the source code unless
requested by the end user.

-T

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 4:55 PM Jerome E. Shidel Jr. 
wrote:

> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
>
> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
>
> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
>
> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them
> here to
> shorten the list.
>
> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
> net\mtcp
> util\4dos
> util\doslfn
> util\fdnpkg
> util\memtest
> util\bootfix
> util\shsufdrv
> util\cwsdpmi
> archiver\zip
> archiver\unzip
>
> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
> util\grep
> archiver\tar
> archiver\gzip
> archiver\bz2
> devel\nasm
> devel\fpc
> net\wget
> net\rsync
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 BASE packages

[Antony Gordon]

Hi,

Given the changes in DOS since 2.X until now, Edlin and EXE2BIN should be
optional. DOS 5 replaced Edlin with EDIT and EXE2BIN wasn't included with
DOS after 3.3 or 4.01.

Which memory manager offers the most compatibility? FDXMS or HIMEMX?

-T

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 4:53 PM Jerome E. Shidel Jr. 
wrote:

> This is the list of the BASE Packages for the FDI installer.
>
> Please note that I switched out UIDE for UDVD2. UIDE was causing strange
> disk errors with FDINST and with FreeCOM.
>
> Remember this is the Minimalist, MS-DOS functionality only BASE for
> FreeDOS 1.2.
>
> Please let me know if I left anything out or should remove something.
>
> Also, V8Power Tools is not installed when only BASE is selected.
>
> ; Package list for BASE only installation.
>
> base\append
> base\assign
> base\attrib
> base\chkdsk
> base\choice
> base\command
> base\comp
> base\cpidos
> base\ctmouse
> base\debug
> base\defrag
> base\deltree
> base\devload
> base\diskcomp
> base\diskcopy
> base\display
> base\dosfsck
> base\edit
> base\edlin
> base\exe2bin
> base\fc
> base\fdapm
> base\fdisk
> base\find
> base\format
> base\fdxms
> base\fdxms286
> base\help
> base\jemm
> base\himemx
> base\kernel
> base\keyb
> base\keyb_lay
> base\label
> base\lbacache
> base\mem
> base\mirror
> base\mkeyb
> base\mode
> base\more
> base\move
> base\nansi
> base\nlsfunc
> base\print
> base\rdisk
> base\recover
> base\replace
> base\share
> base\shsucdx
> base\sort
> base\swsubst
> base\tree
> base\undelete
> base\unformat
> base\xcopy
> base\xmgr
> util\udvd2
>
>
>
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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.

Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.

Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.

This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them here 
to 
shorten the list.

; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
net\mtcp
util\4dos
util\doslfn
util\fdnpkg
util\memtest
util\bootfix
util\shsufdrv
util\cwsdpmi
archiver\zip
archiver\unzip

; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
util\grep
archiver\tar
archiver\gzip
archiver\bz2
devel\nasm
devel\fpc
net\wget
net\rsync



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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 BASE packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

This is the list of the BASE Packages for the FDI installer.

Please note that I switched out UIDE for UDVD2. UIDE was causing strange
disk errors with FDINST and with FreeCOM.

Remember this is the Minimalist, MS-DOS functionality only BASE for FreeDOS 1.2.

Please let me know if I left anything out or should remove something.

Also, V8Power Tools is not installed when only BASE is selected.

; Package list for BASE only installation.

base\append
base\assign
base\attrib
base\chkdsk
base\choice
base\command
base\comp
base\cpidos
base\ctmouse
base\debug
base\defrag
base\deltree
base\devload
base\diskcomp
base\diskcopy
base\display
base\dosfsck
base\edit
base\edlin
base\exe2bin
base\fc
base\fdapm
base\fdisk
base\find
base\format
base\fdxms
base\fdxms286
base\help
base\jemm
base\himemx
base\kernel
base\keyb
base\keyb_lay
base\label
base\lbacache
base\mem
base\mirror
base\mkeyb
base\mode
base\more
base\move
base\nansi
base\nlsfunc
base\print
base\rdisk
base\recover
base\replace
base\share
base\shsucdx
base\sort
base\swsubst
base\tree
base\undelete
base\unformat
base\xcopy
base\xmgr
util\udvd2


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Maarten Vermeulen]

But consider also that a normal hard drive from year old, not having much 
megabytes. :)
I think that we need to plan, seriously.


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Mercury Thirteen" 
Verzonden: ‎25-‎11-‎2015 17:27
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

If it's just for the installer itself, it shouldn't be much text at all. In 
fact, a few KB may be all that's needed for all the supported languages. Now, 
if one were to broaden multi-language support to the entire OS, then yes the 
requirements would go up considerably. Still likely no more than a few megs 
though considering they are pure text resources.


On 11/25/2015 9:26 AM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:

I am just a bit worried that our OS will be HUGE due to the language 
resources.A few KB is fine,hopefully it doesn't go above that.


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mercury Thirteen  
wrote:

Thanks for the shout! :)

Many (most?) OSs have sets of strings in their resource files containing 
translated versions of all the necessary text. Including many languages isn't 
that space-wasting, as you have the benefit of the data being purely text. 
There would likely not be more than a few KB used for all the strings in any 
necessary language. 



On 11/24/2015 12:45 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:

Whoa...this thread changed rapidly.As for me,I am simply a scientist.I study 
Quantum physics,Astronomy,Meteorology,and Computer sciences.I began programming 
back around 2012,starting with a BASIC compiler.I then began to mess around 
with BATCH.Things really kicked into motion when a power surge wiped my HDD 
clean (really strange disaster).I didn't have the funds to buy another Win-7 
key,so I installed FreeDOS.I began to poke around with DOS,and eventually 
became an expert with QBASIC.It went from there.I joined the DEV forums 
here,and helped with a few things.I received help from a lot of members (A 
shout out to mercury for being the person who put me in the loop of 
everything).Shortly after,I began to mess with Java for a short time (Java is 
my worst enemy...I can't even get "HELLO!" out of it without banging my head 
against something).I then began to mess with Borland Turbo C++,then ASM.I 
develop games on a gaming platform that uses LUA in my spare time,and I also 
perform at concerts in my band (Flute).Now,with that stuff aside,let's get back 
to the language. 


As long as the user can READ what the screen is displaying,we should be fine.If 
the user looks at the screen and thinks it says "Icecream formatted 
burger?",then something is wrong with the translation.I think we should host an 
online repo/archive with all the language INI (Or however the extensions work 
with the installer) files;Which can be downloaded by any user who happens to be 
Dutch (Hi Maarten) for example.Just an idea,as it would be a real pain to have 
EVERY language on EARTH fitted into one CD/VOLUME.I mean,I could research how 
modern OSes do it (Ubuntu especially) on their installation utils.Regards,Jayden


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:

There are always people that are unkind...
Everywhere


Van: Steve Nickolas
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2


On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:

> well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
> city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)

Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude, Niagara Falls 
has a lot of jerks too...

-uso.

--
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G

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Mercury Thirteen]

If it's just for the installer itself, it shouldn't be much text at all. 
In fact, a few KB may be all that's needed for /all/ the supported 
languages. Now, if one were to broaden multi-language support to the 
entire OS, then yes the requirements would go up considerably. Still 
likely no more than a few megs though considering they are pure text 
resources.


On 11/25/2015 9:26 AM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:
I am just a bit worried that our OS will be HUGE due to the language 
resources.A few KB is fine,hopefully it doesn't go above that.


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mercury Thirteen 
mailto:mercury0x0...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Thanks for the shout! :)

Many (most?) OSs have sets of strings in their resource files
containing translated versions of all the necessary text.
Including many languages isn't that space-wasting, as you have the
benefit of the data being purely text. There would likely not be
more than a few KB used for all the strings in any necessary
language.


On 11/24/2015 12:45 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:

Whoa...this thread changed rapidly.As for me,I am simply a
scientist.I study Quantum physics,Astronomy,Meteorology,and
Computer sciences.I began programming back around 2012,starting
with a BASIC compiler.I then began to mess around with
BATCH.Things really kicked into motion when a power surge wiped
my HDD clean (really strange disaster).I didn't have the funds to
buy another Win-7 key,so I installed FreeDOS.I began to poke
around with DOS,and eventually became an expert with QBASIC.It
went from there.I joined the DEV forums here,and helped with a
few things.I received help from a lot of members (A shout out to
mercury for being the person who put me in the loop of
everything).Shortly after,I began to mess with Java for a short
time (Java is my worst enemy...I can't even get "HELLO!" out of
it without banging my head against something).I then began to
mess with Borland Turbo C++,then ASM.I develop games on a gaming
platform that uses LUA in my spare time,and I also perform at
concerts in my band (Flute).Now,with that stuff aside,let's get
back to the language.

As long as the user can READ what the screen is displaying,we
should be fine.If the user looks at the screen and thinks it says
"Icecream formatted burger?",then something is wrong with the
translation.I think we should host an online repo/archive with
all the language INI (Or however the extensions work with the
installer) files;Which can be downloaded by any user who happens
to be Dutch (Hi Maarten) for example.Just an idea,as it would be
a real pain to have EVERY language on EARTH fitted into one
CD/VOLUME.I mean,I could research how modern OSes do it (Ubuntu
especially) on their installation utils.Regards,Jayden

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Maarten Vermeulen
mailto:netraa...@gmail.com>> wrote:

There are always people that are unkind...
Everywhere

Van: Steve Nickolas <mailto:usots...@buric.co>
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS
developers. <mailto:freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:

> well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live
now), huge
> city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)

Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude,
Niagara Falls
has a lot of jerks too...

-uso.


--
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environment.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[netraam70]

We must do planning which do we want and which not, otherwise we will indeed 
get a problem with MB’s.
So let the planning begin! ;p

maarten


Van: JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU
Verzonden: woensdag 25 november 2015 15:27
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2


I am just a bit worried that our OS will be HUGE due to the language 
resources.A few KB is fine,hopefully it doesn't go above that.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mercury Thirteen  
wrote:
Thanks for the shout! :)

Many (most?) OSs have sets of strings in their resource files containing 
translated versions of all the necessary text. Including many languages isn't 
that space-wasting, as you have the benefit of the data being purely text. 
There would likely not be more than a few KB used for all the strings in any 
necessary language.

On 11/24/2015 12:45 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:
Whoa...this thread changed rapidly.As for me,I am simply a scientist.I study 
Quantum physics,Astronomy,Meteorology,and Computer sciences.I began programming 
back around 2012,starting with a BASIC compiler.I then began to mess around 
with BATCH.Things really kicked into motion when a power surge wiped my HDD 
clean (really strange disaster).I didn't have the funds to buy another Win-7 
key,so I installed FreeDOS.I began to poke around with DOS,and eventually 
became an expert with QBASIC.It went from there.I joined the DEV forums 
here,and helped with a few things.I received help from a lot of members (A 
shout out to mercury for being the person who put me in the loop of 
everything).Shortly after,I began to mess with Java for a short time (Java is 
my worst enemy...I can't even get "HELLO!" out of it without banging my head 
against something).I then began to mess with Borland Turbo C++,then ASM.I 
develop games on a gaming platform that uses LUA in my spare time,and I also 
perform at concerts in my band (Flute).Now,with that stuff aside,let's get back 
to the language.

As long as the user can READ what the screen is displaying,we should be fine.If 
the user looks at the screen and thinks it says "Icecream formatted 
burger?",then something is wrong with the translation.I think we should host an 
online repo/archive with all the language INI (Or however the extensions work 
with the installer) files;Which can be downloaded by any user who happens to be 
Dutch (Hi Maarten) for example.Just an idea,as it would be a real pain to have 
EVERY language on EARTH fitted into one CD/VOLUME.I mean,I could research how 
modern OSes do it (Ubuntu especially) on their installation utils.Regards,Jayden

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
There are always people that are unkind...
Everywhere

Van: Steve Nickolas
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2
On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:

> well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
> city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)

Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude, Niagara Falls 
has a lot of jerks too...

-uso.

--
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU]

I am just a bit worried that our OS will be HUGE due to the language
resources.A few KB is fine,hopefully it doesn't go above that.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 6:24 PM, Mercury Thirteen 
wrote:

> Thanks for the shout! :)
>
> Many (most?) OSs have sets of strings in their resource files containing
> translated versions of all the necessary text. Including many languages
> isn't that space-wasting, as you have the benefit of the data being purely
> text. There would likely not be more than a few KB used for all the strings
> in any necessary language.
>
>
> On 11/24/2015 12:45 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:
>
> Whoa...this thread changed rapidly.As for me,I am simply a scientist.I
> study Quantum physics,Astronomy,Meteorology,and Computer sciences.I began
> programming back around 2012,starting with a BASIC compiler.I then began to
> mess around with BATCH.Things really kicked into motion when a power surge
> wiped my HDD clean (really strange disaster).I didn't have the funds to buy
> another Win-7 key,so I installed FreeDOS.I began to poke around with
> DOS,and eventually became an expert with QBASIC.It went from there.I joined
> the DEV forums here,and helped with a few things.I received help from a lot
> of members (A shout out to mercury for being the person who put me in the
> loop of everything).Shortly after,I began to mess with Java for a short
> time (Java is my worst enemy...I can't even get "HELLO!" out of it without
> banging my head against something).I then began to mess with Borland Turbo
> C++,then ASM.I develop games on a gaming platform that uses LUA in my spare
> time,and I also perform at concerts in my band (Flute).Now,with that stuff
> aside,let's get back to the language.
>
> As long as the user can READ what the screen is displaying,we should be
> fine.If the user looks at the screen and thinks it says "Icecream formatted
> burger?",then something is wrong with the translation.I think we should
> host an online repo/archive with all the language INI (Or however the
> extensions work with the installer) files;Which can be downloaded by any
> user who happens to be Dutch (Hi Maarten) for example.Just an idea,as it
> would be a real pain to have EVERY language on EARTH fitted into one
> CD/VOLUME.I mean,I could research how modern OSes do it (Ubuntu especially)
> on their installation utils.Regards,Jayden
>
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Maarten Vermeulen < 
> netraa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are always people that are unkind...
>> Everywhere
>> --------------
>> Van: Steve Nickolas 
>> Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
>> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
>> 
>> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:
>>
>> > well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
>> > city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)
>>
>> Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude, Niagara
>> Falls
>> has a lot of jerks too...
>>
>> -uso.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
>> OSs.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
>> ___
>> Freedos-devel mailing list
>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>
>>
>> --
>> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
>> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
>> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
>> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
>> OSs.
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
>> ___
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>> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
> Use 

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Mercury Thirteen]

Thanks for the shout! :)

Many (most?) OSs have sets of strings in their resource files containing 
translated versions of all the necessary text. Including many languages 
isn't that space-wasting, as you have the benefit of the data being 
purely text. There would likely not be more than a few KB used for all 
the strings in any necessary language.


On 11/24/2015 12:45 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU wrote:
Whoa...this thread changed rapidly.As for me,I am simply a scientist.I 
study Quantum physics,Astronomy,Meteorology,and Computer sciences.I 
began programming back around 2012,starting with a BASIC compiler.I 
then began to mess around with BATCH.Things really kicked into motion 
when a power surge wiped my HDD clean (really strange disaster).I 
didn't have the funds to buy another Win-7 key,so I installed 
FreeDOS.I began to poke around with DOS,and eventually became an 
expert with QBASIC.It went from there.I joined the DEV forums here,and 
helped with a few things.I received help from a lot of members (A 
shout out to mercury for being the person who put me in the loop of 
everything).Shortly after,I began to mess with Java for a short time 
(Java is my worst enemy...I can't even get "HELLO!" out of it without 
banging my head against something).I then began to mess with Borland 
Turbo C++,then ASM.I develop games on a gaming platform that uses LUA 
in my spare time,and I also perform at concerts in my band 
(Flute).Now,with that stuff aside,let's get back to the language.


As long as the user can READ what the screen is displaying,we should 
be fine.If the user looks at the screen and thinks it says "Icecream 
formatted burger?",then something is wrong with the translation.I 
think we should host an online repo/archive with all the language INI 
(Or however the extensions work with the installer) files;Which can be 
downloaded by any user who happens to be Dutch (Hi Maarten) for 
example.Just an idea,as it would be a real pain to have EVERY language 
on EARTH fitted into one CD/VOLUME.I mean,I could research how modern 
OSes do it (Ubuntu especially) on their installation utils.Regards,Jayden


On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Maarten Vermeulen 
mailto:netraa...@gmail.com>> wrote:


There are always people that are unkind...
Everywhere

Van: Steve Nickolas <mailto:usots...@buric.co>
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
<mailto:freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:

> well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live
now), huge
> city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)

Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude,
Niagara Falls
has a lot of jerks too...

-uso.


--
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Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU]

Whoa...this thread changed rapidly.As for me,I am simply a scientist.I
study Quantum physics,Astronomy,Meteorology,and Computer sciences.I began
programming back around 2012,starting with a BASIC compiler.I then began to
mess around with BATCH.Things really kicked into motion when a power surge
wiped my HDD clean (really strange disaster).I didn't have the funds to buy
another Win-7 key,so I installed FreeDOS.I began to poke around with
DOS,and eventually became an expert with QBASIC.It went from there.I joined
the DEV forums here,and helped with a few things.I received help from a lot
of members (A shout out to mercury for being the person who put me in the
loop of everything).Shortly after,I began to mess with Java for a short
time (Java is my worst enemy...I can't even get "HELLO!" out of it without
banging my head against something).I then began to mess with Borland Turbo
C++,then ASM.I develop games on a gaming platform that uses LUA in my spare
time,and I also perform at concerts in my band (Flute).Now,with that stuff
aside,let's get back to the language.

As long as the user can READ what the screen is displaying,we should be
fine.If the user looks at the screen and thinks it says "Icecream formatted
burger?",then something is wrong with the translation.I think we should
host an online repo/archive with all the language INI (Or however the
extensions work with the installer) files;Which can be downloaded by any
user who happens to be Dutch (Hi Maarten) for example.Just an idea,as it
would be a real pain to have EVERY language on EARTH fitted into one
CD/VOLUME.I mean,I could research how modern OSes do it (Ubuntu especially)
on their installation utils.Regards,Jayden

On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:31 AM, Maarten Vermeulen 
wrote:

> There are always people that are unkind...
> Everywhere
> --
> Van: Steve Nickolas 
> Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
> 
> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:
>
> > well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
> > city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)
>
> Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude, Niagara Falls
> has a lot of jerks too...
>
> -uso.
>
>
> --
> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
> OSs.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
> ___
> Freedos-devel mailing list
> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>
>
> --
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> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
> OSs.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
> ___
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> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Maarten Vermeulen]

There are always people that are unkind...
Everywhere

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Steve Nickolas" 
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:22
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:

> well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
> city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)

Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude, Niagara Falls 
has a lot of jerks too...

-uso.

--
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Maarten Vermeulen]

(sarcastic) Now I need to introduce myself.. :(

I am Maarten
My age is 13 (5th of January 2002)
Live in a town near Amersfoort.
Help with Night DOS (32-bit replacement of Freedos. Project founder: Mercury)
Do my own project: Bird OS.
And like freedos.

I also like school :)
And i love birds (I have cockatiels: 'knaagje' and 'eddy').

Now you all know who I am

Maarten



-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Geraldo Netto" 
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 15:02
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

Hello Maarten,

It's totally off-topic, but at which city do you live? :)

BTW, Eric (Auer) used to live in Nijmegen (now in Trier)
I have met him in person after years of mentoring
(Eric mentors me on FreeDOS since 2001...)
I also visited Utrecht and Amsterdan
It was very interesting
brazilian reality is quite different compared to europe/usa
well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)


Kind Regards,

Geraldo Netto
Sapere Aude => Non dvcor, dvco
http://exdev.sf.net/

On 24 November 2015 at 03:55, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
> Do you mean: 'hallo, hoe heet je?' That is the sentence in Dutch logic.
> 'hello, what's your name?'
>
> 'ik Ben maarten'
> 'i am maarten'
> now you can talk Dutch;p
> 
> Van: Rugxulo
> Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 00:21
> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2
>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Maarten Vermeulen 
> wrote:
>>
>> For those that didn't know, English is the second language in the
>> Netherlands. Everyone learns it on school and needs to do exam with it.
>> 80%
>> of the Dutch people talk/write English. Also on school you learn German.
>
> I got my flu shot from the local (U.S.) health department today. For
> whatever reason, there were some inane children's shows on tv there,
> in the waiting room. One of them was about a red talking jet (plane),
> and I suppose it was meant to be almost educational for young kids.
> Anyways, he started talking about the Netherlands, apparently
> delivering a package. They mentioned Gouda cheese, tulips, and
> windmills. And he delivered a package to a little boy named Willem
> (mostly speaking English, of course). "Hallo, heet ye" (or whatever,
> "hello, what is your name?", sorry I can't spell it).
>
> Not exactly enlightening, and they don't teach much foreign language
> in schools here, only bare minimum, usually only the same ol' (pardon)
> "boring" languages: Spanish, French, etc. In fact, I double-checked
> online, one of the biggest local universities only offers foreign
> language major (degree) in French, German, Russian, or Spanish. (I'm
> surprised it's even that good.)
>
> Let's check WinRAR to see what languages it (still) supports:  WinRAR
> 5.21 is available in Albanian, Arabic, Armenian, Bulgarian, Chinese
> Simplified, Croatian, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, Galician,
> Greek, Hebrew, Indonesian, Lithuanian, Persian, Polish, Portuguese
> Brazilian, Russian, Slovak, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish, Ukrainian,
> Vietnamese
>
> --
> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
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> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
> OSs.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2015, Geraldo Netto wrote:

> well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
> city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)

Doesn't have to be a big city to have that kind of attitude, Niagara Falls 
has a lot of jerks too...

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Geraldo Netto]

Hello Maarten,

It's totally off-topic, but at which city do you live? :)

BTW, Eric (Auer) used to live in Nijmegen (now in Trier)
I have met him in person after years of mentoring
(Eric mentors me on FreeDOS since 2001...)
I also visited Utrecht and Amsterdan
It was very interesting
brazilian reality is quite different compared to europe/usa
well, nyc feels a lot like sao paulo (where i was born/live now), huge
city, unkind/always-in-a-rush people (imho)


Kind Regards,

Geraldo Netto
Sapere Aude => Non dvcor, dvco
http://exdev.sf.net/

On 24 November 2015 at 03:55, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
> Do you mean: 'hallo, hoe heet je?' That is the sentence in Dutch logic.
> 'hello, what's your name?'
>
> 'ik Ben maarten'
> 'i am maarten'
> now you can talk Dutch;p
> 
> Van: Rugxulo
> Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 00:21
> Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
> Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2
>
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Maarten Vermeulen 
> wrote:
>>
>> For those that didn't know, English is the second language in the
>> Netherlands. Everyone learns it on school and needs to do exam with it.
>> 80%
>> of the Dutch people talk/write English. Also on school you learn German.
>
> I got my flu shot from the local (U.S.) health department today. For
> whatever reason, there were some inane children's shows on tv there,
> in the waiting room. One of them was about a red talking jet (plane),
> and I suppose it was meant to be almost educational for young kids.
> Anyways, he started talking about the Netherlands, apparently
> delivering a package. They mentioned Gouda cheese, tulips, and
> windmills. And he delivered a package to a little boy named Willem
> (mostly speaking English, of course). "Hallo, heet ye" (or whatever,
> "hello, what is your name?", sorry I can't spell it).
>
> Not exactly enlightening, and they don't teach much foreign language
> in schools here, only bare minimum, usually only the same ol' (pardon)
> "boring" languages: Spanish, French, etc. In fact, I double-checked
> online, one of the biggest local universities only offers foreign
> language major (degree) in French, German, Russian, or Spanish. (I'm
> surprised it's even that good.)
>
> Let's check WinRAR to see what languages it (still) supports:  WinRAR
> 5.21 is available in Albanian, Arabic, Armenian, Bulgarian, Chinese
> Simplified, Croatian, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, Galician,
> Greek, Hebrew, Indonesian, Lithuanian, Persian, Polish, Portuguese
> Brazilian, Russian, Slovak, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish, Ukrainian,
> Vietnamese
>
> --
> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
> OSs.
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=254741551&iu=/4140
> ___
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Geraldo Netto]

Hello Mateusz/All,

How are you doing?

Well, no one reported any issue until now
So, we can upload the translations
Regarding the update itself, whatever works best for you is okay for me :)
In case you prefer the svn, my source forge user is geraldonetto

Also, i have checked Alain's translation
The only issue is that most of it (if not all) is encoded as ascii
when time permits i'll work on it :)


Kind Regards,

Geraldo Netto
Sapere Aude => Non dvcor, dvco
http://exdev.sf.net/

On 21 November 2015 at 05:26, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> Hi Geraldo,
>
> Looks nice! Let me know when it is confirmed that translations are okay,
> I will gladly add them. Or, if you wish, I can provide you svn access to
> the project so you can maintain these languages yourself.
>
> Side note: in any case, if/when you provide any files to the
> freedoslocal project (be it through mail or svn), please make sure the
> files are encoded in UTF-8.
>
> cheers,
> Mateusz
>
>
>
> On 21/11/2015 03:33, Geraldo Netto wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Based on Rugxulo/Mateusz FreeDOS local link
>> I took a few minutes to make some (brazilian) portuguese translations
>> of the following softwares:
>> (Translatations available at [1])
>>
>> choice
>> compute
>> find
>> help
>> more
>> password
>> pause
>> sort
>> tee
>> trch
>>
>> Before asking to push on SVN, i'd like to ask any brazilian or
>> portuguese to test and report
>> [1] https://www.dropbox.com/sh/agz9n342trjorqg/AAAX8ExU4G0eBwOOgOz_v7Paa?dl=0
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Geraldo Netto
>> Sapere Aude => Non dvcor, dvco
>> http://exdev.sf.net/
>>
>> On 20 November 2015 at 22:50, Rugxulo  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Eric Auer  wrote:

 But back to the original question: The installer should
 support English, plus any language for which somebody on
 this list is interested in giving you a translation of a
 message file of your installer :-) For example Spanish,
 maybe Portuguese, Russian, French, German, even Dutch ;-)
>>>
>>> For example, support on http://freedoslocal.sourceforge.net/ is
>>> underwhelming, to say the least. As much as some of us would like to
>>> fully support at least "some" extra language options, it's just not
>>> feasible (without a lot of time and energy, which even enthusiasts
>>> like me are lacking these days).
>>>
>>> So (obviously) it comes down to whoever is willing to do the work. If
>>> no one is willing to step up to the plate, then "English only" it is.
>>> Not ideal but perhaps unavoidable. (Maybe all such worrying about this
>>> should wait until FD 1.2.1 or 1.3 or 2.0.)
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>> --
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Maarten Vermeulen]

Do you mean: 'hallo, hoe heet je?' That is the sentence in Dutch logic.
'hello, what's your name?'

'ik Ben maarten'
'i am maarten' 
now you can talk Dutch;p

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: "Rugxulo" 
Verzonden: ‎24-‎11-‎2015 00:21
Aan: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 

Onderwerp: Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
>
> For those that didn't know, English is the second language in the
> Netherlands. Everyone learns it on school and needs to do exam with it. 80%
> of the Dutch people talk/write English. Also on school you learn German.

I got my flu shot from the local (U.S.) health department today. For
whatever reason, there were some inane children's shows on tv there,
in the waiting room. One of them was about a red talking jet (plane),
and I suppose it was meant to be almost educational for young kids.
Anyways, he started talking about the Netherlands, apparently
delivering a package. They mentioned Gouda cheese, tulips, and
windmills. And he delivered a package to a little boy named Willem
(mostly speaking English, of course). "Hallo, heet ye" (or whatever,
"hello, what is your name?", sorry I can't spell it).

Not exactly enlightening, and they don't teach much foreign language
in schools here, only bare minimum, usually only the same ol' (pardon)
"boring" languages: Spanish, French, etc. In fact, I double-checked
online, one of the biggest local universities only offers foreign
language major (degree) in French, German, Russian, or Spanish. (I'm
surprised it's even that good.)

Let's check WinRAR to see what languages it (still) supports:  WinRAR
5.21 is available in Albanian, Arabic, Armenian, Bulgarian, Chinese
Simplified, Croatian, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, Galician,
Greek, Hebrew, Indonesian, Lithuanian, Persian, Polish, Portuguese
Brazilian, Russian, Slovak, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish, Ukrainian,
Vietnamese

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Steve Nickolas]

On Mon, 23 Nov 2015, Rugxulo wrote:

> Not exactly enlightening, and they don't teach much foreign language
> in schools here, only bare minimum, usually only the same ol' (pardon)
> "boring" languages: Spanish, French, etc. In fact, I double-checked
> online, one of the biggest local universities only offers foreign
> language major (degree) in French, German, Russian, or Spanish. (I'm
> surprised it's even that good.)

You'd prolly be surprised to know that I studied 3 foreign languages in 
high school - French, Spanish and Japanese. ;)

That said, from disuse I've forgotten most of my French and my Spanish has 
regressed to the point that I can't speak it anymore (but can still 
somewhat understand it), but I've somewhat kept up my Japanese through 
watching anime. :P

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 5:21 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>
> Let's check WinRAR to see what languages it (still) supports:

Oops! How the heck did I screw that up?? (Trying to remove the
uninteresting redundancy of "32 bit / 64 bit".) Bah, let me try again:

Albanian
Arabic
Armenian
Belarusian
Bulgarian
Catalan
Chinese Simplified
Chinese Traditional
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dutch
English
Estonian
Finnish
French
Galician
German
Greek
Hebrew
Hungarian
Indonesian
Italian
Japanese
Lithuanian
Norwegian
Persian
Polish
Portuguese
Portuguese Brazilian
Romanian
Russian
Serbian Cyrillic
Slovak
Slovenian
Spanish
Swedish
Thai
Turkish
Ukrainian
Uzbek
Vietnamese

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU]

If it's any help,I speak in binary (No literally) in one of my Computer
Physics classes.We have to translate our conversations into binary (ASCII
to BINARY).I swear,my instructor has a stick of RAM in her head or
something.She speaks in binary like it is a natural LANGUAGE.(This is off
topic,but it relates to the language thing).In general,I think we should
support mainstream languages (English.French,etc).But,for those odd
occasions that the user is another language,we can host a repository of the
language files for the users to access and download.They can then take it
from there.This way,we don't have a 400 GB file (Exaggeration) in our
installation volume.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 6:21 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Maarten Vermeulen 
> wrote:
> >
> > For those that didn't know, English is the second language in the
> > Netherlands. Everyone learns it on school and needs to do exam with it.
> 80%
> > of the Dutch people talk/write English. Also on school you learn German.
>
> I got my flu shot from the local (U.S.) health department today. For
> whatever reason, there were some inane children's shows on tv there,
> in the waiting room. One of them was about a red talking jet (plane),
> and I suppose it was meant to be almost educational for young kids.
> Anyways, he started talking about the Netherlands, apparently
> delivering a package. They mentioned Gouda cheese, tulips, and
> windmills. And he delivered a package to a little boy named Willem
> (mostly speaking English, of course). "Hallo, heet ye" (or whatever,
> "hello, what is your name?", sorry I can't spell it).
>
> Not exactly enlightening, and they don't teach much foreign language
> in schools here, only bare minimum, usually only the same ol' (pardon)
> "boring" languages: Spanish, French, etc. In fact, I double-checked
> online, one of the biggest local universities only offers foreign
> language major (degree) in French, German, Russian, or Spanish. (I'm
> surprised it's even that good.)
>
> Let's check WinRAR to see what languages it (still) supports:  WinRAR
> 5.21 is available in Albanian, Arabic, Armenian, Bulgarian, Chinese
> Simplified, Croatian, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, Galician,
> Greek, Hebrew, Indonesian, Lithuanian, Persian, Polish, Portuguese
> Brazilian, Russian, Slovak, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish, Ukrainian,
> Vietnamese
>
>
> --
> Go from Idea to Many App Stores Faster with Intel(R) XDK
> Give your users amazing mobile app experiences with Intel(R) XDK.
> Use one codebase in this all-in-one HTML5 development environment.
> Design, debug & build mobile apps & 2D/3D high-impact games for multiple
> OSs.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:13 AM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
>
> For those that didn't know, English is the second language in the
> Netherlands. Everyone learns it on school and needs to do exam with it. 80%
> of the Dutch people talk/write English. Also on school you learn German.

I got my flu shot from the local (U.S.) health department today. For
whatever reason, there were some inane children's shows on tv there,
in the waiting room. One of them was about a red talking jet (plane),
and I suppose it was meant to be almost educational for young kids.
Anyways, he started talking about the Netherlands, apparently
delivering a package. They mentioned Gouda cheese, tulips, and
windmills. And he delivered a package to a little boy named Willem
(mostly speaking English, of course). "Hallo, heet ye" (or whatever,
"hello, what is your name?", sorry I can't spell it).

Not exactly enlightening, and they don't teach much foreign language
in schools here, only bare minimum, usually only the same ol' (pardon)
"boring" languages: Spanish, French, etc. In fact, I double-checked
online, one of the biggest local universities only offers foreign
language major (degree) in French, German, Russian, or Spanish. (I'm
surprised it's even that good.)

Let's check WinRAR to see what languages it (still) supports:  WinRAR
5.21 is available in Albanian, Arabic, Armenian, Bulgarian, Chinese
Simplified, Croatian, Danish, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish, Galician,
Greek, Hebrew, Indonesian, Lithuanian, Persian, Polish, Portuguese
Brazilian, Russian, Slovak, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish, Ukrainian,
Vietnamese

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
>
> And sorry... But here is another one! :)
> If you put German in it you have al the germanic languages:
>
> English
> German
> Dutch
> :D

Didn't we discuss this once before? Am I wrong or doesn't Dutch sit
between English and German anyways?

> But any way the English, Spanish and France language(s) are the most useful.
> Dutch would be great though.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure you forgot a few: Swedish,
Norwegian, Icelandic, etc.

Let me double-check on Wikipedia to make sure:

Afrikaans
Alemannic
Danish
Dutch
English
Faroese
German
Gutnish
Icelandic
Limburgish
Low German
Luxembourgish
North Frisian
Norwegian
Saterland Frisian
Scots
Swedish
Wymysorys
West Frisian
Yiddish

Okay, not to be a bastard, but clearly some of these are quite
obscure, so I don't anticipate anyone contributing them (but who
knows).

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