Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 4:51 PM, Tom wrote: Here's a link to a Seattle Times article on the Lion operating system: http://tinyurl.com/24jese8 I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? G'day As the cost of flash memory drops, it appears likely that an OS will be developed that uses flash as it's boot and running ram, but hard drives will continue to be used for 'bulk' storage for some time to come. Hard drives offer roughly 20-30 time more storage for the same price as flash, and as still cameras and video continue to increase in their memory usage, they will require more storage on your computer. Hard drives are the only way at present, and may continue to be so as ways such as atomic level tunnelling microscope disks are now being researched. http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32558.wss Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Brian Christmas wrote: As the cost of flash memory drops, it appears likely that an OS will be developed that uses flash as it's boot and running ram, but hard drives will continue to be used for 'bulk' storage for some time to come. Flash will become more common as a replacement for hard disks. But HDs will still beat out Flash for the foreseeable future for large capacity storage, it is going to take a while before some kind of solid state storage beats rotating magnetic storage in $/byte. You don't need to develop an OS that uses flash, the are lots of Flash drives now that are SATA drives and can be used just like a SATA HD. Flash isn't going to replace RAM, at least not for a long time. Flash isn't anywhere near as fast as RAM. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.comwrote: Lion ? --- It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves. Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means. And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group) But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ? Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged. And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags. Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ? I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience. I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad. That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 7:27 PM, Clark Martin wrote: On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Brian Christmas wrote: As the cost of flash memory drops, it appears likely that an OS will be developed that uses flash as it's boot and running ram, but hard drives will continue to be used for 'bulk' storage for some time to come. Flash will become more common as a replacement for hard disks. But HDs will still beat out Flash for the foreseeable future for large capacity storage, it is going to take a while before some kind of solid state storage beats rotating magnetic storage in $/byte. You don't need to develop an OS that uses flash, the are lots of Flash drives now that are SATA drives and can be used just like a SATA HD. Flash isn't going to replace RAM, at least not for a long time. Flash isn't anywhere near as fast as RAM. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting G'day Clark Flash is a type of RAM, albeit a slow address form. It definitely won't replace fast access RAM. What I envisage is four tiers of memory. 1. Fast RAM for the immediate use of the processor, built on the processor. (existing) 2. Fast RAM for use of the processor, but separate from it. (existing) 3. Dedicated slower RAM (but cheap, as in Flash) for page swapping when required, built into the OS. This MIGHT also be used for instant startup memory. 4. Hard Drive and Flash storage for long term data storage and page swapping overflow. (existing) At the moment, Flash drives can be used by the OS for page swapping, provided the drive is not filled up by long term storage. Having two drives is confusing to the end user, and I believe that a dedicated page swapping source of Flash is required, invisible to the user. Some of the types of RAM mentioned below are also slow. Regards Santa Types of RAM The following are some common types of RAM: SRAM: Static random access memory uses multiple transistors, typically four to six, for each memory cell but doesn't have a capacitor in each cell. It is used primarily for cache. DRAM: Dynamic random access memory has memory cells with a paired transistor andcapacitor requiring constant refreshing. FPM DRAM: Fast page mode dynamic random access memory was the original form of DRAM. It waits through the entire process of locating a bit of data by column and row and then reading the bit before it starts on the next bit. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 176 MBps. EDO DRAM: Extended data-out dynamic random access memory does not wait for all of the processing of the first bit before continuing to the next one. As soon as the address of the first bit is located, EDO DRAM begins looking for the next bit. It is about five percent faster than FPM. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 264 MBps. SDRAM: Synchronous dynamic random access memory takes advantage of the burst mode concept to greatly improve performance. It does this by staying on the row containing the requested bit and moving rapidly through the columns, reading each bit as it goes. The idea is that most of the time the data needed by the CPU will be in sequence. SDRAM is about five percent faster than EDO RAM and is the most common form in desktops today. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 528 MBps. DDR SDRAM: Double data rate synchronous dynamic RAM is just like SDRAM except that is has higher bandwidth, meaning greater speed. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 1,064 MBps (for DDR SDRAM 133 MHZ). RDRAM: Rambus dynamic random access memory is a radical departure from the previous DRAM architecture. Designed by Rambus, RDRAM uses a Rambus in-line memory module (RIMM), which is similar in size and pin configuration to a standard DIMM. What makes RDRAM so different is its use of a special high-speed data bus called the Rambus channel. RDRAM memory chips work in parallel to achieve a data rate of 800 MHz, or 1,600 MBps. Since they operate at such high speeds, they generate much more heat than other types of chips. To help dissipate the excess heat Rambus chips are fitted with a heat spreader, which looks like a long thin wafer. Just like there are smaller versions of DIMMs, there are also SO-RIMMs, designed for notebook computers. Credit Card Memory: Credit card memory is a proprietary self-contained DRAM memory module that plugs into a special slot for use in notebook computers. PCMCIA Memory Card: Another self-contained DRAM module for notebooks, cards of this type are not proprietary and should work with any notebook computer whose system bus matches the memory card's configuration. CMOS RAM: CMOS RAM is a term for the small amount of memory used by your computer and some other devices to remember things like hard disk settings -- see Why does my computer need a battery? for details. This memory uses a small battery to provide it with the power it needs to maintain the memory contents.
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Lion ? --- It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves. Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means. And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group) But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ? Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged. And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags. Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ? I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience. I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad. That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business. G'day Adrian Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking. My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24 iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27 iMacs, mainly cause some graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder). Pity the PC users still stuck with XP, or the graphics heavy version of it, Windows 7. As for the cost, I paid less, in actual Aussie dollars, far less in real terms, for my iMac than I did for a IIc with an extra floppy drive, and a 256 MB hard drive. Despite all this, I still love to see the strides being made; it proves to me that human ingenuity is alive and well, and I await with bated breath the next advances in all fields of endeavour that will take humanity to wherever the road takes us. Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. It's just how things work... JT blu Electronic Cigarettes Looks, feels, and tastes real. Enjoy the freedom to smoke anywhere. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc00fc6f03fd383216st04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.comwrote: Lion ? --- It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves. Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means. And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group) But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ? Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged. And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags. Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ? I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience. I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad. That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business. G'day Adrian Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. Well here we go again. I did not really want or need to justify my opinion. But what the hell! right mate ? Yeah everything dies, ot for the glass half full types everything has a life cycle. But industry and capitalism is not satisfied with letting you Mac die at a ripe old age. They will cut off life support in the form of OS changes to make sure you buy LONG before you need to. Of course people of affluence needn't worry it's a write off. The rest of us like those who need to keep their old Macs running? Well, how many in this thread are ready to pitch their Gs out the door? In this thread someone even says they have a G5 and cannot see a streaming video ! Aren't you tired of having companies pushing you for more money and selling you stuff that they will make sure you will be dissatisfied with when the next OS comes out? That computer dies an unnatural early death. Not just planned obsolescence but forced obsolescence. It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking. Well that's just dandy ! I still have not forgiven the PC vested overlapped board of directors of Commodore for the early demise of the Amiga. It all went downhill after that ! How's that for a grudge!? If you have a Mac that is no longer able to do what you need and it is less than 4 years old why would you be on low end Mac? Yeah, computer systems evolve. Wait until next year when the just announced predictive logic systems hit the market. Everything sold today is already obsolete! Get it ! If you buy a just announced Mac tomorrow you are buying something that is 1000 times ( repeat; 1000 ) slower than what is coming next year. ( look it up for yourself). Can't we just have a Mac that a person can buy and keep it running no matter how slow. Just quit breaking it by no longer supporting the OS it runs on. Especially when it is not that frickin' old ! My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24 iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27 iMacs, mainly cause
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 10:02 PM, James Therrault wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. You're correct. The iPad proves it. It's a shift to program and content control, that the American mid-west would be proud of. And, as an Aussie, I have to add that our existing Government is on the same track with an opt-out internet censorship control that is just as onerous, but a least it's being touted as an opt-out system (which means there's a list, which certain people can refer to! Paranoia will out!). The run-away success of the iPad just might signal to Apple that the same thing can be done with Macs, and the conditions set for the start of the Mac store seems to indicate just that. Will people still buy a locked down machine and OS and content? You betcha! The iPads have proved it, even tho that great supporter of the internet, porn, is still available via browser; but even that might be removed in future. Will everyone buy such a machine? No way! I wouldn't for one, even tho I own, and my family loves, an iPad. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. Definitely some will, but will we be enough? I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Congratulations. My first was a IIe. Loved it. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) You should trade mark it, it might become widespread. Remember listers, you saw it here first. If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. Unless there's an early groundswelling, i doubt it. The hugely popular ascent of the iPad and iPhone with their controlled content seem to indicate that the unwashed/unthinking masses want to be fed controlled content. Australia might prove to be a testing ground. Many won't want to give up their freedoms, but will they be prepared to go on a list to keep up that ideology? It's just how things work... Yes it is. But in which way will they work? Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.comwrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. It's just how things work... And the predictive logic operating system and hardware may well be that brick wall. For MS too. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model Very interesting. I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - I don't like the situation, what can I do about it? Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/10 7:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. ...And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984. Jobs is starting to look and sound like that big brother face on the screen in the famous 1984 commercial, glasses and all. That said, at least we can say is Apple doesn't sit on its laurels and is always trying to innovate (for better or worse). However they are a business and like everyone else they're in it for the money, innovations or not. If you notice in the media event, Jobs starts off with the business aspect of Apple i.e. $22 billion, Mac is 1/3 of Apple revenue, if they were just Macs they'd be no. 110 in Forbes top 500, etc. Apple is in the business of selling an experience. They want you to experience their product their way. The more control they have the less chaos for their user, the less flack they get as a business. Just take a look at the iPhone. It is a very controlled environment, BUT in the spirit of the old Apple days, people have found ways to make it their own by jail breaking it. I can see that happening with the Mac. Remember when we could only use certain optical drives with our Powermacs? Then along comes PatchBurn. Leave it to die hard Mac users to take back control. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:38 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 10:02 PM, James Therrault wrote: If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. Unless there's an early groundswelling, i doubt it. The hugely popular ascent of the iPad and iPhone with their controlled content seem to indicate that the unwashed/unthinking masses want to be fed controlled content. I wouldn't assert that they actively *want* to be nannied, but rather they WANT SHINY, and are willing to give up their freedom for it. Though they might not be willing to *admit* that they're compromising. Many people would rather see a bright future than a bleak one -- even if that requires denying or ignoring unpleasant facts. So they dismiss concerns as somehow invalid (e.g. You're just jealous because Bill Gates is a billionaire and you're not.[1]) or display outright hostility to the messenger (Can't afford a new Mac? GET A JOB.) You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it. Yup, time to watch The Matrix again. Josh [1] Remember that one? It turned out that those who complained about Microsoft's workmanship and business practices weren't just blowing smoke, surprisingly enough. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model *Very* interesting. I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - *I don't like the situation, what can I do about it?* Regards Santa I thought you could afford the upgrade path, sorry I misunderstood. I ask myself the same thing every day. And I ask even if I buy a G5 or a low end Mac Pro how long can I use it for NLE before the OS can no longer get online for editing updates and other software duties? How long will Apple not kill it ? -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:38 AM, Arnel Tuazon wrote: On 21/10/10 7:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. ...And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984. Jobs is starting to look and sound like that big brother face on the screen in the famous 1984 commercial, glasses and all. For reference: Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. We have created for the first time in all history, a garden of pure ideology. Where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thoughts is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one people, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail! The integration vs. fragmentation dichotomy is straight from this script. Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 10:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model Very interesting. I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - I don't like the situation, what can I do about it? Regards Santa I thought you could afford the upgrade path, sorry I misunderstood. I ask myself the same thing every day. And I ask even if I buy a G5 or a low end Mac Pro how long can I use it for NLE before the OS can no longer get online for editing updates and other software duties? How long will Apple not kill it ? G'day again Adrian Thanks. To be honest, if I get paid for several software applications I've written pending approval, and sell my current machine on eBay, and throw in some extra, and get approval from my significant other, I might be able to get an i7 iMac. Big might. My current machine is only worth 30% of what I paid for it 18 months ago, so devaluation hits hard. But I really need a Power Mac for the Blender graphics I'm trying to write, which I simply can't justify, even to myself. Software advances to the limit of current processors, and my Core 2 duo is not cutting it. I have given myself a yearly budget to put towards a new computer, and try not to go over it, so might squeeze it in in a few months. Yearly internet access costs nearly as much. Computers are expensive hobbies. Contrast that tho with Windoze boxes that can hardly be given away after 2 years, unless the OS is completely restored. (I also know golfers, drinkers and smokers who spend more per annum on their hobbies than I do: self justification) The reason I'm a member of the Low End group is that over the years I've scrounged older machines, tricked them out, and given them to neighbours and friends, and still maintain them. Gets Macs into hands that appreciate them. The oldest is a G3 tangarine iMac, running X.3., but the best is a beige G3 desktop I used to own, fitted with 1GB RAM and a G4 daughter card at 1.6 GHz. running 10.4 really well. Still runs the latest version of iWork, and iMovie 6, and surfs the net with aplomb. Neighbours kids love it. How long have they got? How long's a piece of string? Certainly the webs moving to H264 as witness Apples videos (and Flash might survive) which use more processor power then older machines have, so the web experience will be diminished, but by the time that becomes heavily prevalent, I would hope an intel iMac might be had cheaply. Sorry, but the long term outlook for the net and existing older Macs doesn't look good. If Australias National Broadband Network (fibre to the node) gets off the ground, then the biggest speed bottleneck for the end user will be older computers. The main situation I don't like, and am taking a calm approach to, is Apples continued moves towards a closed system. What can I, as one person, do about it? Dunno. Perhaps hope for a groundswell, tho hope is a bit irrational. Perhaps I'll fire a calm email off to his Steveness in the hope he'll take note, especially if a few others are expressing the same feelings. Is this the anger stage of grief? I don't think so, as I don't feel anger; perhaps disappointment in that such a shining star as Apple seem to be moving in this direction. Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
the bottom line Air has only the flash drive and skinny to recommend it. As my high school daughter told her friend in the apple store one, day, It's a poser computer for looking pretty in coffee shops- no dvd, get a macbook instead. She was glared at by the genius in the area. If I was going to spend a grand on a computer, I certainly would not buy one slower that my current G5! On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:51 AM, Tom wrote: Here's a link to a Seattle Times article on the Lion operating system: http://tinyurl.com/24jese8 I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list Jeff Bequette -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
By default, the hard drive has been hidden on Every version of OS X. By d -- Bruce On Oct 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Chance Reecher cha...@reecher.net wrote: 2) The demo didn't show a hard drive on the desktop, but we'd still have access to it right? By default the hard drive is hidden from the Desktop in Snow, so I'd assume yes. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
I have the same problem too, I downloaded it a few times and I can not find it anywhere??? -Original Message- From: Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com Sent: Oct 20, 2010 7:22 PM To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Where is Flash 10.1 I'm running 10.4.11 on G4 Mini Every time Firefox updates it tells me I must update Flash Player NOW. So I download and install Flash Player 10.1 but where does it go? I have Macromedia Flash 8 installed and in the sub folder Players SAFlashPlayer appears and it appears again in the sub-sub-folder Release. Who two I don't know. This is the player that opens when I click on a .swf file. and it is vs 8. Spotlight turns up nothing. I read Dan's Feb post regarding the beta 10.1 with all the recommendations and caveats, but I haven't noticed any significant problems with web sites etc. So I guess I can live with vs 8 or perhaps download vs 9, but can't help wondering where 10.1 goes when the installer seems to finish fine. Advise appreciated. Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Thanks to Everyone for g5 info!
On Oct 20, 7:34 pm, R 2 gpride1...@gmail.com wrote: AGP is listed for the video card, but is there also PCI or PCI E or X in this machine-g5 power mac 7,3? What video card is in there now? Look in Apple System Profiler under Graphics, it is probably a GeForce 5200 with 64 MD VRAM. You will get much better video from a card with 256 or 512 MB VRAM. Flashed PC cards like the GeForce 6200 are generally much cheaper than OEM Mac video cards. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Richard Gerome wrote: -Original Message- From: Cliff Rediger redicl...@yahoo.com I'm running 10.4.11 on G4 Mini Every time Firefox updates it tells me I must update Flash Player NOW. So I download and install Flash Player 10.1 but where does it go? I have the same problem too, I downloaded it a few times and I can not find it anywhere??? Do you mean you can't find the installer to run? Or are you looking for an actual Flash Player program? If the former, in Firefox go to Tools-Downloads then right click on the Install Flash Player.dmg to show it in Finder If the latter, there is no program, it is (I think) a plug in deep in the bowels of the system that allows your browser to run Flash apps. After you run the installer, go to: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html?promoid=GXVZC and that page will tell you what version of flash is installed. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives down there... Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about???-Original Message-
From: Brian Christmas
Sent: Oct 21, 2010 5:40 AM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote:
Lion ?
---It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves.
Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means.
And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the " you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell " days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group)
But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ?
Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged.And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags.
Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ?I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience.
I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad.That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business.G'day AdrianUnfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned.It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking.My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24" iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27" iMacs, mainly cause some graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder). Pity the PC users still stuck with XP, or the graphics heavy version of it,
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:51 PM, Tom wrote: I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? That's been predicted for about 20 years now. Hard drives are one of the few mechanical devices left on computers, and the ones most prone to catastrophic failure (if your optical drive, keyboard or mouse dies, you can keep working, if the HDD goes so does your data ) They're finally coming down in price thanks, at least in part, to Apple, whose ginormous purchases of flash memory have helped bring about the economies of scale needed. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model You DO know that research has shown her model is as valid as the Phlogiston model of chemistry, right? Well-reasoned, meticulously detailed and utterly fractal in it's wrongness... -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:38 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: snip Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. It's just how things work... And the predictive logic operating system and hardware may well be that brick wall. For MS too. I think that MS has already become a mature organization. They simply don't have a Jobs type leadership that truly innovates. Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Apple with all its cash needs to take care of its customers/followers better. There's only so much abuse that folks will tolerate and in my view, they are reaching that point... JT Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25% If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc05b42ce9e2303d7ast03duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On Oct 21, 7:09 am, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: Do you mean you can't find the installer to run? Or are you looking for an actual Flash Player program? If the latter, there is no program, it is (I think) a plug in deep in the bowels of the system that allows your browser to run Flash apps. After you run the installer, go to: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html?promoid=GXVZC Thank you Len. I meant the former and the given link indicates I've successfully installed 10.1.85.3 Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On 2010/10/21 09:30, Cliff Rediger so eloquently wrote: On Oct 21, 7:09 am, Len Gerstellgers...@gmail.com wrote: Do you mean you can't find the installer to run? Or are you looking for an actual Flash Player program? If the latter, there is no program, it is (I think) a plug in deep in the bowels of the system that allows your browser to run Flash apps. After you run the installer, go to: http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html?promoid=GXVZC Thank you Len. I meant the former and the given link indicates I've successfully installed 10.1.85.3 What's really fun is when you migrate to a new drive, or rename the current drive, and finding your downloads buried in /Volumes, which is invisible by default. NetNewsWire doesn't seem to keep track of where the Downloads folder is as well as the browsers do. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self-destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression.) I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer. Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks. Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc. Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such. If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac. You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone style of youtube drama. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Tina K. wrote: What's really fun is when you migrate to a new drive, or rename the current drive, and finding your downloads buried in /Volumes, which is invisible by default. /Volumes is not invisible. Open a new finder window. Click on the computer at the top of the list on the left. The window now shows the contents of /Volumes Moreover, migrating to a new drive, or renaming the current one does NOT move where your downloads folder is, unless you're doing something else weird to the system, because your Downloads folder is ALWAYS at /Users/short username/Downloads. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On 2010/10/21 10:26, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Tina K. wrote: What's really fun is when you migrate to a new drive, or rename the current drive, and finding your downloads buried in /Volumes, which is invisible by default. /Volumes is not invisible. Open a new finder window. Click on the computer at the top of the list on the left. The window now shows the contents of /Volumes Oops, my mistake. I have invisible files enabled and I thought /Volumes was one of them. Moreover, migrating to a new drive, or renaming the current one does NOT move where your downloads folder is, unless you're doing something else weird to the system, because your Downloads folder is ALWAYS at/Users/short username/Downloads. That was true for my browsers, but not so for NetNewsWire. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Tina K. wrote: Moreover, migrating to a new drive, or renaming the current one does NOT move where your downloads folder is, unless you're doing something else weird to the system, because your Downloads folder is ALWAYS at/Users/short username/Downloads. That was true for my browsers, but not so for NetNewsWire. What version of NNN are you running? I've had no such issues. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On 2010/10/21 10:45, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Tina K. wrote: Moreover, migrating to a new drive, or renaming the current one does NOT move where your downloads folder is, unless you're doing something else weird to the system, because your Downloads folder is ALWAYS at/Users/short username/Downloads. That was true for my browsers, but not so for NetNewsWire. What version of NNN are you running? I've had no such issues. 3.2.7, but it might have something to do with the fact that the OS and my User folders are on different drives. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
If we lose the optical disk what will we have for archiving? Financial data coming from the bank is rapidly moving to computer files. What about those pictures we take to help in filing a fire insurance claim? Your last decade of income tax filings. Home-written CD-ROMs are not the best but they seem to be pretty good for half a decade and perhaps longer if protected from the environment. Pressed optical disks are very much better but not suitable for the likes of personal financial records because of initial expense. Floppies are terrible. So is magnetic tape. Flash, which is stored charge on MOSFET gates, will never be archival. Resistors that exhibit two crystal states have interesting possibilities but are quite a way off. Off-site storage as encrypted files on a trusted server with associated charges is available but costly and subject to government interference. Printed paper in a safe deposit box seems to be the best except for icons chiseled into granite. Punched paper rolls of piano music are the highest fidelity source of old music. What are Apple Entertainment, Inc. and the Lion King (Disney, Pixar) doing to help? -- -- Halloween == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:21 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self- destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. And that's exactly why a company/organization can self destruct. Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Again, my point is verified. A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH. Notice I did say, regardless of reason. I read Bloomberg too. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression.) Nothing new here. The market is irrational. I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer. Really? I think that you may be drinking too much koolaid. Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks. So nothing but the corporate line for you, eh? Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc. Maybe Jobs will get Al Gore to do that... render them inoperable.. Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such. Hey, NT was the last, (and maybe first), decent windoze OS. If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year- old Mac. Wow, somebody musta really peed in you cornflakes! I cannot recall anyone here demanding the latest and greatest for their old Macs. Just continued usability and a hint of support is all. You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone style of youtube drama. This is the most irrational post that I have seen from you Bruce. Entitlement has nothing to do with it. Call it the nurturing of the Mac culture. As for leaving it to utube drama, you've done quite well here... JT SHOCKING: 2010 Honda Civic for $1,734.09 Is this price real? YES! We reveal the TRUTH! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc07be5cdfca3cad3fst01duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self-destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression.) I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer. Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks. Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc. Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such. If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac. You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone style of youtube drama. Good grief: a rational and well-expressed argument. Yes, I was happy with my early 2005 G5 dual 2.0. Then I found it essential to run CS5, and to become experienced with Snow Leopard. So I have a 2009 MacPro. Best beloved has the G5 now, and it is so far, more than adequate for her needs. I will continue with my MacPro as long as it is viable:- note, viable not feasible. This takes into account time spent on 'maintenance', speed of operation and compatibility with my employer's Macs, for which I have assumed responsibility (IT are scared, if it isn't Windows...). If I only perused the web, wrote the odd letter etc., I could still be running my old Beige G3 Panther, but although there are always new developments to which my initial reaction is not ecstatic, it usually isn't too long before a bit of lateral thinking shows me where it can be of great use to me. Jaguar, BMW or any other prestige motor manufacturer does not stay in business by ensuring they have a sub £5,000 offering, or that their newest model has most of its components interchangeable with those in a 2002 model. Yes, that might seem harsh to many of those of more modest means - believe me, acquiring my MacPro entailed lots of sacrifices - some still ongoing. But overall, it is and will continue to be worth it. Just my 2 pennyworth Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
I'm confused! What is this change that so many people are talking about? Thanks On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Richard Gerome wrote: Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? I'm not as young as I used to be But I'm not as old as I'm going to be! SO WATCH IT!!! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 12:21 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still snip The issue here --for me at least, and for several people here as well-- is not the natural course of life, or the too rapid pace of computer development. We're talking about forced obsolescence, which Apple seems to be perfecting into a form of art. The fact that someone could watch Job's keynote on a G4 running Ubuntu, or that I can watch Netflix streamed movies on my pitiful old ThinkPad but not in my newer and much more powerful 17 PowerBook, is pretty telling. I'm just talking streamed video here, which is just the top of the iceberg. (And I'm aware that Netflix is not exactly the best example, because it depends on a Microsoft plugin --but who knows? Perhaps Microsoft is in cahoots with Apple in that one.) Oh, well. Perhaps the whole world is just changing. People thought of a Mac in the same way they thought or a nice car: Buy quality, it'll last you forever. Nowadays people who really want quality and can afford it simply lease their cars, because that way they'll always have a top of the line automobile. Perhaps the computer world has gone full circle, and we'll end up leasing terminals to access a cloud supercomputer hidden somewhere in California and fully under the thumb of Jobs, or Gates, or whichever computer Big Brother we'll choose to surround ourselves to... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
Permit me to be old for a minute. 48, by the way. I had a 3GB drive that I paid $300 for. 3GB would take forever to fill. Really? Now 3GB is 13 minutes of raw DV, not even a full DVD. When people started talking flash for iPods, some said no way. Me, I think the added quality (i.e. safer to drop or jiggle) made the extra expense worth it. A 512GB SDD (Apple charges $1200) is worth say $500. I just bought a 2TB drive for $100 or $25 for that same memory. So, ballpark, SSD is 20X. Today, in an AIR, you hardly need 2TB, and the HD thickness/ power consumption is an issue. I never say never, but I've been watching this industry for nearly 30 years, and suspect that until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X of HD, both will be there side by side depending on the platform it goes in. Such a breakthrough is possible, I suppose, but not so likely. For laptops, it may become ubiquitous, and even as a main desktop drive. But when I want crazy storage, I can drop $200 and load 4TB. $500 for SSD would be a turnoff, $5,000 out of the question. Real curious how others view this topic. On Oct 21, 1:51 am, Tom tba...@nmia.com wrote: I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 9:26 AM -0700 10/20/2010, Fluxstringer wrote: Lion ? Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Leopard, Snow Leopard ... all cats known for their sleek stealthy attack speed. Tiger ... a more full featured cat, but still a good hunter. Lion ... hum. Notice that the pic Apple has chosen is the male - the fatter one that lays around on the veldt waiting for the females to do hunting. Be afraid. Be very afraid. At 1:55 PM -0500 10/20/2010, Kris Tilford wrote: I went to the Apple site to watch the streaming video of the presentation and was rudely greeted with this: Streaming video requires Safari 4 or 5 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Safari on iOS 3 or later. Typical Apple marketing stupidity. sigh. At 6:03 PM -0500 10/20/2010, Eric Herbert wrote: I have to say, I think Apple's finally lost it. Trying to turn the operating system into an iPad? Someone save us. I like their OS as is, and being an Intel user, I do like Snow Leopard. That said, I think Lion is going to blow if they keep up all this Fisher Price nonsense. It seems that Apple forgets that some people actually use their computer for more than consumer tasks! iOS is a stripped down Snow Leopard with a new GUI. It makes sense that those features should be rolled back into the original OS. Then, when the processors in the smaller devices catch up, they'll be able to run the full OS. And by the same token, as the giant *high resolution* touch screens become available, the desktops running the full OS will need that support. The loss of PPC support is tragic since there are so many PPC machines in use still (at my work there's only 1 Intel Mac in the whole building, the other 7 are all G4 machines) and they're all still perfectly functional. My main desktop is still a G5 DP and it's still as usable as anything else I have. Yea. But there is no business case (aka profit) for Apple to continue to support that old platform. At 8:38 PM -0400 10/20/2010, admin wrote: That simple computer mouse (albeit with ever greater optical DPI, etc and much ingenuity behind it's apparent simplicity) is one of the greatest proprioceptive and information processing means ever devised by the mind of man. It has to be thousands of times more precise-and even quicker-than flashing our finger in front of our face to work with a computer. For most people, a track pad and gestures is more than ample. Don't think for a moment that that means that Apple will drop support for other pointing devices! The pro market still uses high-res pads and track balls and mice and such - and always will. Having the multi-touch capabilities in OS X tho wow. There are some great things that can be done! Air gestures, optic (eye) targeting for heads-up displays, etc. Great potential, once you have the primitive support built-in! FWIW, - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:57 AM, Ashgrove wrote: The issue here --for me at least, and for several people here as well-- is not the natural course of life, or the too rapid pace of computer development. We're talking about forced obsolescence, which Apple seems to be perfecting into a form of art. The fact that someone could watch Job's keynote on a G4 running Ubuntu, or that I can watch Netflix streamed movies on my pitiful old ThinkPad but not in my newer and much more powerful 17 PowerBook, is pretty telling. I'm just talking streamed video here, which is just the top of the iceberg. (And I'm aware that Netflix is not exactly the best example, because it depends on a Microsoft plugin --but who knows? Perhaps Microsoft is in cahoots with Apple in that one.) Oh, well. Perhaps the whole world is just changing. People thought of a Mac in the same way they thought or a nice car: Buy quality, it'll last you forever. Nowadays people who really want quality and can afford it simply lease their cars, because that way they'll always have a top of the line automobile. Perhaps the computer world has gone full circle, and we'll end up leasing terminals to access a cloud supercomputer hidden somewhere in California and fully under the thumb of Jobs, or Gates, or whichever computer Big Brother we'll choose to surround ourselves to... Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the business that requires it. Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain. That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as do I. My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007), that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased new in 2001. Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of keepin' up with the Jones'. I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest being a 1983. If they run good why change a good thing? JT SHOCKING: Samsung 46#34; 3D LED TV for $84.95 SPECIAL REPORT: High ticket items are being auctioned for an incredible 90% off! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc0839db72ba39356bst04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 10:54 AM -0600 10/21/2010, Doug McNutt wrote: If we lose the optical disk what will we have for archiving? External burners, hard drives, tape drives, and The Cloud -- just like we do now. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 10/21/10 10:57 AM, Ashgrove salum...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 21, 12:21 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still snip The issue here --for me at least, and for several people here as well-- is not the natural course of life, or the too rapid pace of computer development. The golden rule. Computers processor speeds and storage space will double approximately every 18 months. If you are using a Mac that is 5 years old consider it a car that has 500,000 miles on it. I have had people tell me as an Apple Service Technician I just bought this so many times I could spit. Then I read the serial number and tell them when their computer was built. Hard drives are mechanical and die after a period of time. I'm just talking streamed video here, which is just the top of the iceberg. My Netflix come in little red envelopes in the mail. Oh, well. Perhaps the whole world is just changing. People thought of a Mac in the same way they thought or a nice car: Buy quality, it'll last you forever. Nowadays people who really want quality and can afford it simply lease their cars... You are aware that you can lease a Mac right? Listen, I feel your pain, I have an SE-30 sitting right here. I know this is Lowendmac, but the Sawtooth G4 should be considered vintage at this point. Back when I was nannying the PM 8500 list machines that were a three or so years back were considered vintage. It's usually people who make minor machine jumps that b*tch. For example going from a 4 year old machine to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve. If these people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line machine that would last them a long time. I have a Tangerine iBook here for testing RAM and OS 9 problems. It works great. It's not Apple that is hurting you. It's developers moving on to the next and better thing. Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason. Developers are developing for the future. If you were a machinist would you be working on a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell? --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 10/21/10 12:16 PM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the business that requires it. Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain. Actually I work for a number of large Bay Area firms and they are switching to Mac's. Including the Government. Lawrence Livermore Labs. They want the security and stability that the Mac OS has to offer. Windoze may rule that domain for now but not forever. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 11:16 AM -0700 10/21/2010, JoeTaxpayer wrote: until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X of HD, both will be there side by side *nod* A $1/GB price point, for *reliable* devices, is fairly critical to get past. Big HDs really boomed when they hit 25c/GB. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
Agreed. I also think the demand slope isn't linear. There's one price that would capture all laptops, another that makes the Desktop primary drive SSD, yet another that gets bulk storage. Just like LCD TV had one price to get in my living room, but another to make it to the basement area. And since these prices are different for each person, the results are pretty interesting over time. Also - I know enough to know there is a wear-out issue with SSD that's different than the HD issues. I don't know if the constant write/erase of a TiVo-type application makes the SSD not quite ready for prime time in that type of use case. For me, eliminating the HD noise has a pretty high value. (But only in the bedroom. Living room noise not as big a deal) On Oct 21, 2:36 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: A $1/GB price point, for *reliable* devices, is fairly critical to get past. Big HDs really boomed when they hit 25c/GB. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 3:16 pm, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the business that requires it. Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain. That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as do I. My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007), that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased new in 2001. Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of keepin' up with the Jones'. I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest being a 1983. If they run good why change a good thing? James, you seem to have mistaken me for somebody else. My point has nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses and everything with the fact that things are not made to last anymore. (FWIW, I drive a 1994.) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2:27 pm, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: Listen, I feel your pain, I have an SE-30 sitting right here. I know this is Lowendmac, but the Sawtooth G4 should be considered vintage at this point. Back when I was nannying the PM 8500 list machines that were a three or so years back were considered vintage. It's usually people who make minor machine jumps that b*tch. For example going from a 4 year old machine to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve. If these people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line machine that would last them a long time. I have a Tangerine iBook here for testing RAM and OS 9 problems. It works great. It's not Apple that is hurting you. It's developers moving on to the next and better thing. Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason. Developers are developing for the future. If you were a machinist would you be working on a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell? Kyle, all that is good and dandy. But I'm not worried about the obsolescence of a Gigabit, but of a Core 2 Duo, and is less that than the fact that a lot of this obsolescence is forced on you. It has nothing to do with your hardware, which can do things that your software doesn't allow them to do, so you are forced to buy new... And, by the way, Netflix envelopes are good and dandy, but what's great about streamed video is that you can watch the movies that are being showed in the Cannes Film Festival, right away. What worries me is that Amazon sells you a digital movie, or a digital book, and does not allow you to download it. You are sold the right to stream it. If that's the future, it's downright scary. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:16 AM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: Permit me to be old for a minute. 48, by the way. Pshaw..get off my lawn you kid! 8-P I had a 3GB drive that I paid $300 for. 3GB would take forever to fill. Really? Now 3GB is 13 minutes of raw DV, not even a full DVD. When I started working here (1994), we had just set up our first-ever file server, with a *gargantuan* 10GB drive. Man we'd NEVER fill that up! (we still have that thing laying about, just to remind us..a huge 5 1/4 full height 15 pound chunk of metal) Now I can (and do, routinely) carry a USB flash drive in my pocket with more storage space, and we're looking at expanding our file server space (currently 6TB) to something like 20TB. Some years ago, when we were writing a justification for increasing the files servers (again!) I plotted our storage usage against time. Excel was able to fit an exponential curve function to it really closely, and we were in the part that's shooting almost straight up. We still are. Data expands to fit the available space. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Video jerks badly when I access websites with Adobe Shock formatted video
Hi! This question may very well have been posted and answered previously, but I can't find it. My G4 dual 1.42 GHz PPC w/2MB L3 cache/ processor 2GB DDR SDRAM memory is running Tiger (10.4.9); the video card is an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro; and the Internet connection is broadband (Safari v. 4.1.2), w/AirPort as the router. The problem is that whenever I access a website that uses Adobe Shock video, it's jerky and the audio and video aren't synchronized. Is there any remedy for this? Or does Adobe Shock not work well with (1) Safari, or (2) OS 10.4.9, or (3) the G4 processor? Generally, I have no other programs running when I try to access these websites. Is there a (relatively) easy fix without my having to junk my MDD which is the best machine I've ever used? Thanks. Tray -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Video jerks badly when I access websites with Adobe Shock formatted video
On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:41 PM, Tray Stephenson wrote: Hi! This question may very well have been posted and answered previously, but I can't find it. My G4 dual 1.42 GHz PPC w/2MB L3 cache/processor 2GB DDR SDRAM memory is running Tiger (10.4.9); the video card is an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro; and the Internet connection is broadband (Safari v. 4.1.2), w/AirPort as the router. The problem is that whenever I access a website that uses Adobe Shock video, it's jerky and the audio and video aren't synchronized. Is there any remedy for this? Or does Adobe Shock not work well with (1) Safari, or (2) OS 10.4.9, or (3) the G4 processor? Shockwave or Flash streaming video? Do you have Perian installed? http://www.perian.org What is your broadband speed? low end, 1.5mb/second and even some 5 mb/sec connections have issues with streaming flash, especially HD which is increasingly used. Also check your flash plugin...you might get better results with the latest beta, if it works with 10.4. You can manually download (or use plugins like Cosmopod in Safari) to download the .flv video files to your computer. With Perian installed the video should be playable with QT. If it plays ok locally, the issue is the web browser plugin and network connectivity. (and the networking issue could be between you and the originating website, ie: not be under your or your ISP's control.) Some HD video will still not run very well on older Macs, but a dual 1.42 and that Radeon card should handle it just fine. I have 1.5 mb/sec connectivity at home, so I routinely use Cosmopod to download the video and play it locally. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.netwrote: Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives down there... Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too (hey I'm here for a job not a loan) I got into this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about??? Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the current style your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses. Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is compromised. Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with. Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old days. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 10/21/10 1:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.net wrote: Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives down there... Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too (hey I'm here for a job not a loan) I got into this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about??? Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the current style your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses. Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is compromised. Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with. Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old days. Thank you. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: It's usually people who make minor machine jumps that b*tch. For example going from a 4 year old machine to a 3 year old machine instead of hitting the head of the curve. If these people shelled out a few more bucks they would have a top of the line machine that would last them a long time. I have a Tangerine iBook here for testing RAM and OS 9 problems. It works great. It's not Apple that is hurting you. It's developers moving on to the next and better thing. Programs do not run well on old hardware for a reason. Developers are developing for the future. If you were a machinist would you be working on a better carburetor for a 73 Buick or a hydrogen fuel cell? What has been expressed by me and some others here Kyle is we do not even have that few more bucks we are strapped and on the soup line ( you think I am joking right ?) When I bought a 604 Mac I needed the newest but the graphics and file formats i could generate slowly could work. Now I need at least that G5 I needed 5 years ago but might sqeak by getting a 1.6 GHz unit. and it will not do the work either. I feel like one of those guys in India who carve a working motorcycle out of scrap with an axe. I cannot generate money fast enough to buy even working vintage equipment and I think of anything pre-Intel as vintage ! Anything Pre last year I think of simply as OLD ! You are right about developers but as I noted in the Amiga era hardware and software ( formats and protocols included) which as Brian Christmas points out is good in itself. BUT actively sabotaging the viability of your past customers systems and tightly controlling the ability of a free market for apps and other software borders on the unAmerican. Where is free enterprise supposed to be as an ideal when developers outside the loop are forbidden from practicing that enterprise? Read about what The Steve says about Android phones and their market and users the other day. A former anarchistic phone hacker is now dissing the freedom of open source. All considerations of performance or quality aside is The Steve afraid an open market may compete better. or is his rant simply a class/caste system demarcator meant to position the iWAY as the way of the Ubermenschen ? Or is it simply a marketing ploy. I cannot help but wonder about the workings of the Steve's mind. Choice, which one would assume was a good quality in the user friendly Mac era ( remember that cute guy?) has now become bad when people need a phone or an operating system that fits their need ( i.e. user friendly )? No, I do not think Linux is the answer. But Linux kernels tweaked by computer and phone makers may be better some day than systems we cannot afford. That hackintosh idea seems better these days too ! And the fuel cell car may be where it's at but it will be the government and NOT BUICK that will keep your '73 off the road. But it will be Apple that kills your Mac. Ask all of those who have struggled to get Snow Leopard onto G5s and keep everything in tune and working. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:15 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 10/21/10 1:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with. Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old days. Thank you. ___ Wow, getting hard in this thread to keep track of who said what. You are welcome Kyle. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Does it seem strange to anyone else that in an era when we hear a lot of lip service about the nobility of free enterprise and business efforts that a big company like Apple is out of tune with what small businesses need in a computer. Where the hell is that $ 500 ( not kidding Steve, that is the price point) mid tower Mac with slots and room for at least 2 drives. Upgradeable CPU and RAM too. Think of it as Apple's belief in the power of the masses to bootstrap themselves into a full out Mac Pro. An ideological investment by The Steve into the wellbeing of the ground up nature of the economy would be a good sign and give those on the lowest tier some cash to please the corporate SUCK. ( big bald baby that it is) In other words enabling us the tools would help us and by helping us having a good effect on the general economy. It would also show that Apple is socially sensitive. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
There are two categories of people. The one always puts people into a category, the other just knows that this doesn't work. [As a non native speaker I have the fearful feeling that this translation sucks…] -- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N From:Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. No. The obsolescence this is all about is business motivated – they deliberately make software advances only work with new models in order to sell those new models in order to make more money. It could be done also with older computers, and there is a market for it. But this market is not profitable enough, so Apple decided to drop it completely. There are other market concepts, like selling hardware only (or with any operating system, but without support from the hardware seller), that doesn't have the need for combining the hard- and software into one business. Like computers for Windows and Linux/BSD. And, +15 years ago, DOS and OS/2. In such markets one can see enough support for older hardware (Windows: XP and 7 Starter, e.g. on (new) Netbooks as well as older computers) and even better support throu specialized distributions in the Linux/BSD world. What does this tell us? People don't simply trash their older hardware simply because bleeding edge software –and an operating system is only a place to start– doesn't run on their machines anymore. Instead, they want to continue using it with applicable software, such as an operating system that suited their machines _and_ their needs then and will continue to do so new – but isn't abondoned like Mac OS X. Having bug fixes and current standards implimented is a basic need, also for “older” software like Mac OS X on PowerMacs. There is technical reason why this wouldn't be possible, but to desliberately drop support for these computers out of business reasons. Linux/BSD proves that also very modern bleeding edge (in Linux terms) software technology works on old and older and oldest machines. You can run Linux/BSD even on machines from the 80's without problems except that performance will naturally be limited. The software look and feel will be limited. But it runs. And there are plenty of software solutions that make an Intel 80486 with 50 MHz be a surf station for the internet possible without the fear of being a security hazzard like it would be with Windows 95 and Mac OS 7-9. And almost every bug-fixed version of standard tools will be available for it. [The advantage of open source, I guess…] It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking. For writing a letter or reading news on the internet you don't need these advances. My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. That sentence is nonsense and you know it. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24 iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27 iMacs, … Don't be ashamed. There's nothing wrong with computing power. The i7 is a very powerfull CPU and the 27″ display rocks – although it is a glare display (yak!) … mainly cause some graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder). This tells it all. You are a Mac desciple. There is nothing wrong with that but that you are not at all openminded. Please, try something new for a change! Why is the step from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X no problem, but the step from Mac OS X 10.6 to Windows 7 such an undoable thing? Why not once try Linux? How about FreeBSD? OpenBSD? Pity the PC users still stuck with XP, or the graphics heavy version of it, Windows 7. Why is it always Windows? Please accept the fact that Microsoft supports Windows XP until the year 2015. This will make Windows XP being a supported operating system from 2002 to 2015, 13 years!!! Microsoft has learned from this mistake and future versions will have a shorter life span. :-| Just like Apple has learned that Mac OS X – and Macs effectively – will make
Re: IS the world about to change ?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N From:Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac. This is a general problem. I run Linux for this very reason. It never let me down. Whatever computer hardware I was giving it, it would always do the job right. The upgrading is step-by-step, no great leaps, but always a little… And I cannot come up with another operating system that would let be move from a PC (x86, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 64-bit) to a PC (amd64, 64-bit) without having migration trouble. All the software ran, regardless of the underlying architecture [except closed source stuff like Flash :-( – I'd love open standards!]. All my personal files and settings – there! You couldn't even tell the difference if it was a PC or a PowerPC! When someone buys a product like a PC with Windows, or a Mac with Mac OS, then (s)he agrees to the license, right? With Microsoft and Apple this is a right to USE this software, not to own it. With Linux on the other hand… well, you even get the right to enhance it, participate with it, … much too technical stuff anyway. But you may as well simply just use it. Linux has never and most likely will never drop hardware support, as long as you report incompatibilities at the appropriate forums/lists. A Linux developer will always try to solve this problem for you – as long as you are willing to help in this process. Just my solution around this “business problem” some of you are having with Apple. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Quicksilver Issue
On Oct 17, 2010, at 10:55 PM, Stephen Conrad wrote: OK, my machine just shut down and when I fired it back up this is what was sent to Apple In plain english what is the issue Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies): com.apple.driver.AppleUSBOHCI(2.5.5)@0x49b000 dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily(2.8.1)@0x467000 dependency:com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.7)@0x491000 It appears to be a problem with a USB device or port, or possibly a USB PCI card, if you have one. (I believe that the onboard USB ports also make use of IOPCIFamily, too, although I'm not positive.) The crash happened in the usb driver : com.apple.driver.AppleUSBOHCI The dependencies are system libraries that the USB driver was using at the time of the crash: com.apple.iokit.IOUSBFamily com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily What were you doing when it happened? What USB devices were plugged in? -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:03 PM, Ashgrove wrote: On Oct 21, 3:16 pm, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: Having the latest 'n greatest is fine and justifiable if your in the business that requires it. Macs don't fall into this category as the PC world owns that domain. That said, a very substantial number of Mac owners own older Macs as do I. My newest is a 1.25GHz PowerBook, (bought on eBay in 2007), that does just fine with Tiger. My other Mac is a Gigabit purchased new in 2001. Since you mentioned automobile, well that is often the case of keepin' up with the Jones'. I don't subscribe to such since I drive really old cars the newest being a 1983. If they run good why change a good thing? James, you seem to have mistaken me for somebody else. My point has nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses and everything with the fact that things are not made to last anymore. (FWIW, I drive a 1994.) I didn't infer that it was you but just people in general. There is a minority of us that think outside the box and look at numbers before we jump into a major purchase. Of course, the majority might think me just a mite crazy... JT Moms Asked to Return to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc0c2a27d20c38f668st06vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: ...comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with. Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old days. Now there's a mouthful. Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance... JT Moms Asked to Return to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc0c36f89d2438c7bdst04vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Lacie disappearance
Have just reorganized my office and in the process of cord management, unplugged the LaCie and Maxtor backup HD's accidentally. Nowthey don't show up on the desktop. Any suggestions? G4 Quicksilver dual 867 w/ 2 GB Ram -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Donnerstag 21 Oktober 2010N From:Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac. Nope, not my quote. - JT This is a general problem. I run Linux for this very reason. It never let me down. Whatever computer hardware I was giving it, it would always do the job right. The upgrading is step-by-step, no great leaps, but always a little… And I cannot come up with another operating system that would let be move from a PC (x86, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 32-bit) to a Power Mac (PowerPC, 64-bit) to a PC (amd64, 64-bit) without having migration trouble. All the software ran, regardless of the underlying architecture [except closed source stuff like Flash :-( – I'd love open standards!]. All my personal files and settings – there! You couldn't even tell the difference if it was a PC or a PowerPC! When someone buys a product like a PC with Windows, or a Mac with Mac OS, then (s)he agrees to the license, right? With Microsoft and Apple this is a right to USE this software, not to own it. With Linux on the other hand… well, you even get the right to enhance it, participate with it, … much too technical stuff anyway. But you may as well simply just use it. Linux has never and most likely will never drop hardware support, as long as you report incompatibilities at the appropriate forums/lists. A Linux developer will always try to solve this problem for you – as long as you are willing to help in this process. Just my solution around this “business problem” some of you are having with Apple. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 Moms Asked to Return to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those That Qualify. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc0c522b130537abf7st03vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Lacie disappearance
On Oct 21, 2010, at 6:53 PM, joan wrote: Have just reorganized my office and in the process of cord management, unplugged the LaCie and Maxtor backup HD's accidentally. Nowthey don't show up on the desktop. Any suggestions? G4 Quicksilver dual 867 w/ 2 GB Ram Did you shut everything down, then restart with the externals powered up first? Maybe try a PRAM reset if that doesn't work, and/or Starting up in Single User mode, then restart in regular mode. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Superdisk drive disks
I have an Imation superdisk drive that I picked up at the local goodwill. it looks to be in good shape with the power adapter question is, is it any good for anything? does it work with tiger via classic mode? and where in the world would I find disks for the thing? I only gave a buck for it. Jeff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 9:41 PM + 10/21/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Does it seem strange to anyone else that in an era when we hear a lot of lip service about the nobility of free enterprise and business efforts that a big company like Apple is out of tune with what small businesses need in a computer. Strange? No. Apple, under L'Jobs, has shown no serious interest in the business market, small or large. Sure, they've tossed the business market a few bones (eg: Exchange support), but that's nothing compared to what it really takes to get into business. At this point, Apple is quickly selling *every* device (iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Mac) that they can manufacture. Adding more markets, while there is no capacity to build more widgets, would simply create back-orders -- which would hurt their bottom line. Where the hell is that $ 500 ( not kidding Steve, that is the price point) mid tower Mac with slots and room for at least 2 drives. Upgradeable CPU and RAM too. Apple seems to have little to no interest in the low-end or mid-range market. Old news. If you need machines for your business, and cannot afford new Macs, then go hit the used and refirb market. Those machines work perfectly well. Think of it as Apple's belief in the power of the masses to bootstrap themselves into a full out Mac Pro. If that was the case, then Mac Pro sales would dwarf the Mini and iMac sales by now. But that's just not the case. An ideological investment by The Steve into the wellbeing of the ground up nature of the economy would be a good sign and give those on the lowest tier some cash to please the corporate SUCK. Is such needed? The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right now. Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in to the toilet! WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in that? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 5:48 PM -0600 10/21/2010, James Therrault wrote: Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance... Yea, all the way to the bank. AAPL is still trading over $300. Have you taken your profits yet? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Superdisk drive disks
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Jeffrey Engle wrote: I have an Imation superdisk drive that I picked up at the local goodwill. it looks to be in good shape with the power adapter question is, is it any good for anything? does it work with tiger via classic mode? and where in the world would I find disks for the thing? I only gave a buck for it. Jeff It'll read/write regular 3.5 floppy disks natively in OS X; it's a USB storage device, so it doesn't need any drivers. I just took mine off the desk and put it in the storage closet here at work after realizing it had been about two years since I needed to read a floppy disk. The LS-120 120Mb disks they use are out there, here's one place selling 'new' ones for $20 each: http://tinyurl.com/2eeyp8p (I'm sure they're new old stock because I doubt anyone is making these things anymore.) I found them as cheap as $3 used, but a used floppy disk? Probably not worth it. Considering that Sandisk 2GB SD cards are on sale at Walgreens this week for $16 for two (my car stereo has an SD slot so I've been looking for 'em), spending that kind of money to store 120 Mb is crazy, but $1 for a USB floppy disk drive is a good deal, and the power brick itself is worth that much, it's pretty heavy duty 1.5 amp one. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Dan wrote: At 5:48 PM -0600 10/21/2010, James Therrault wrote: Exactly my sentiments and Apple may pay a price for the arrogance... Yea, all the way to the bank. AAPL is still trading over $300. Have you taken your profits yet? No. I have never really had a taste for dabling in the stock market. In fact, I think that the average investor could do better to buy a daily racing form then bet on the nags at the local track. That said, I do own one stock acquired nearly fifty years ago that pays a pretty nifty dividend every quarter. An old conservative, (originally family held), company that knows their market and how to maximize their resources. OTOH, if I wanna gamble, I'll spend a week in Vegas... JT Refinance Now 3.7% FIXED $160,000 Mortgage for $547/mo. FREE. No Obligation. Get 4 Quotes! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc0ce2186f5d38e4e8st04vuc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Superdisk drive disks
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:14 PM, Jeffrey Engle wrote: I have an Imation superdisk drive that I picked up at the local goodwill. it looks to be in good shape with the power adapter question is, is it any good for anything? does it work with tiger via classic mode? and where in the world would I find disks for the thing? I only gave a buck for it. Jeff It'll read/write regular 3.5 floppy disks natively in OS X; it's a USB storage device, so it doesn't need any drivers. I just took mine off the desk and put it in the storage closet here at work after realizing it had been about two years since I needed to read a floppy disk. The LS-120 120Mb disks they use are out there, here's one place selling 'new' ones for $20 each: http://tinyurl.com/2eeyp8p (I'm sure they're new old stock because I doubt anyone is making these things anymore.) I found them as cheap as $3 used, but a used floppy disk? Probably not worth it. Considering that Sandisk 2GB SD cards are on sale at Walgreens this week for $16 for two (my car stereo has an SD slot so I've been looking for 'em), spending that kind of money to store 120 Mb is crazy, but $1 for a USB floppy disk drive is a good deal, and the power brick itself is worth that much, it's pretty heavy duty 1.5 amp one. Thanks, Bruce Just what I needed. I guess I'll keep my eyes open for some of those 120mb disks at the goodwill too:-) and a floppy drive could be handy at some point. Jeff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the current style your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses. Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is compromised. Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with. Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old days. Well, the mimeograph analogy is not the best but does serve a an example of waning technology. In the early 70's my political friends and I produced 2 3 color political flyers on a mimeograph. Xerox was a rather low quality black and white substitute at at that time. Even the Gestetner mimeo techs were amazed at what we could do with their machines and took samples of our work to their regional office. We were doing duotones on a mimeograph. It took Xerox another 30 years to get a decent color copier. --And we were hard pressed to buy food in those days. I guess the point, is that if we are creative enough we will find solutions to the latest technological advances we are faced with regardless of our budget (or lack of). I have no fear of Apple or any other corporate giant. Just deal with it!! --glen -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Where is Flash 10.1
On 2010/10/21 14:47, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Tina K. wrote: On 2010/10/21 10:45, Bruce Johnson so eloquently wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:41 AM, Tina K. wrote: Moreover, migrating to a new drive, or renaming the current one does NOT move where your downloads folder is, unless you're doing something else weird to the system, because your Downloads folder is ALWAYS at/Users/short username/Downloads. That was true for my browsers, but not so for NetNewsWire. What version of NNN are you running? I've had no such issues. 3.2.7, but it might have something to do with the fact that the OS and my User folders are on different drives. Does the Mac know where your download folder is? snip Yes it does. Once I manually reset the Download folder in NNW all was fine, it was just in the interim that there was an issue. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
