Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321?tag=nl.e550 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly
Title: Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the worl At 12:08 AM + 11/9/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321 I don't agree with that article's off-the-wall speculation that Mac OS X Server is on the chopping block. After all, aside from Apple providing dumbed-down interfaces, the real difference between the two OS releases is basically added open-source stuff. As far as Apple's killing the XServe hardware, well, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin wrt to keeping Macs in many businesses. The trust is waning fast. Apple's recommendation of using Mac Mini or Mac Pro are ok if you just need a one-off server for a small business and don't care about serious hardware/server features. But for anything else, especially the enterprise? It's insulting! Replacing a 1U blade with a 6U that has NO hardware server features - no monitoring, no redundant power supply, and no hot swappable anything ???!!! That just doesn't even come close to cutting it. (Yes, some components in Mac Pro are supposed to be hot swappable - but they're *not* when it's in an equipment rack, where you have to shut it down, remove it from the rack, open it, then play with the hardware...). I saw today that Jobs gave one his crapo terse email replies, to the effect that the XServe just wasn't selling well. HA! Each time my clients have wanted them over the past few years, they've had to wait more than 30 days to get 'em! Yea, that's a great way to sell product - have none available. That way only the customers that really really really really want 'em will stick around. Dude, you got a Dell! My clients are budgeted to upgrade their grids in 7 or 8 months. Since there will be no Mac hardware appropriate... we're now starting the conversion off Mac OS X to FreeBSD, so we'll be able to switch to non-Mac blades easily. Looks like Dell is working with ARM; good potential there for some multi-core Cortex based blades! The new ARM processors will reportedly do 40-bit addressing too. Or maybe we'll go POWER. I donno; haven't really started looking yet. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly
I don't see this as a bad thing. The Xserve never sold well compared to the PowerMac G5, Mac Pro, the Mac Mini server and servers like IBM's Blade servers.It sold to a small market because it was not a large website server but it wasn't a small file server. Apple will probably release a newer updated version (remember when Steve Jobs said he wanted all the Macs to have the name Mac in them?) On Nov 8, 7:09 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 12:08 AM + 11/9/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321 I don't agree with that article's off-the-wall speculation that Mac OS X Server is on the chopping block. After all, aside from Apple providing dumbed-down interfaces, the real difference between the two OS releases is basically added open-source stuff. As far as Apple's killing the XServe hardware, well, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin wrt to keeping Macs in many businesses. The trust is waning fast. Apple's recommendation of using Mac Mini or Mac Pro are ok if you just need a one-off server for a small business and don't care about serious hardware/server features. But for anything else, especially the enterprise? It's insulting! Replacing a 1U blade with a 6U that has NO hardware server features - no monitoring, no redundant power supply, and no hot swappable anything ???!!! That just doesn't even come close to cutting it. (Yes, some components in Mac Pro are supposed to be hot swappable - but they're *not* when it's in an equipment rack, where you have to shut it down, remove it from the rack, open it, then play with the hardware...). I saw today that Jobs gave one his crapo terse email replies, to the effect that the XServe just wasn't selling well. HA! Each time my clients have wanted them over the past few years, they've had to wait more than 30 days to get 'em! Yea, that's a great way to sell product - have none available. That way only the customers that really really really really want 'em will stick around. Dude, you got a Dell! My clients are budgeted to upgrade their grids in 7 or 8 months. Since there will be no Mac hardware appropriate... we're now starting the conversion off Mac OS X to FreeBSD, so we'll be able to switch to non-Mac blades easily. Looks like Dell is working with ARM; good potential there for some multi-core Cortex based blades! The new ARM processors will reportedly do 40-bit addressing too. Or maybe we'll go POWER. I donno; haven't really started looking yet. - Dan. --- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Horrible news for the troops in the field. IS the world about to change continued badly
On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:09 PM, Dan wrote: At 12:08 AM + 11/9/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/education/apple-xserve-is-gone-is-os-x-server-next/4321 No. The world is not about to change due to this. I don't agree with that article's off-the-wall speculation that Mac OS X Server is on the chopping block. After all, aside from Apple providing dumbed-down interfaces, the real difference between the two OS releases is basically added open-source stuff. If it's just the open source parts we're talking about, you can install those yourself, either on stock Mac OS X or any other Unix system. Apple's GUI front ends are essentially an application suite, and they could be packaged as such instead of bundled as a separate operating system. As far as Apple's killing the XServe hardware, well, that's pretty much the nail in the coffin wrt to keeping Macs in many businesses. The trust is waning fast. The business model of branded product as status symbol doesn't apply to businesses. Sure, they might advertise using only Acme-certified, dolphin-safe, home-grown organic widgets if that's what they already use, but they're not going to pay extra just so they can make that claim. Likewise, a business isn't going to pride itself on using Apple-branded systems -- they tend to use the cheapest thing that works. Frankly, if you have a rack of servers, what are you doing running on each one a window server, much less a compositing window server? You can get better performance running a stripped-down OS like Linux or BSD, as well as much better value (since the hardware is cheaper and the OS is free). And if you need just one OS X server, then using a tower instead will have minimal impact, assuming you even had a rack in the first place. Apple's recommendation of using Mac Mini or Mac Pro are ok if you just need a one-off server for a small business and don't care about serious hardware/server features. Agreed. But for anything else, especially the enterprise? It's insulting! Replacing a 1U blade with a 6U that has NO hardware server features - no monitoring, no redundant power supply, and no hot swappable anything ???!!! That just doesn't even come close to cutting it. So, the only thing that cuts it is a blade? :-) Then use blades. Run an open-source server OS and hire some decent server admins who don't need GUI crutches. Or commission the development of some nice administration tools. I saw today that Jobs gave one his crapo terse email replies, to the effect that the XServe just wasn't selling well. That's a risk that you have to manage. If you rely on non- commoditized products, you're liable to have the rug pulled out from under you. You can't blame Apple for cutting their losses. Dude, you got a Dell! I do have a Dell, running Debian GNU/Linux. With a free OS, the logo on the box becomes unimportant. My clients are budgeted to upgrade their grids in 7 or 8 months. Since there will be no Mac hardware appropriate... we're now starting the conversion off Mac OS X to FreeBSD, so we'll be able to switch to non-Mac blades easily. Sounds like a happy ending to me. :-) Looks like Dell is working with ARM; good potential there for some multi-core Cortex based blades! The new ARM processors will reportedly do 40-bit addressing too. Or maybe we'll go POWER. I donno; haven't really started looking yet. Uncertainty is normal for the recently emancipated. ;-) Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 2010/10/25 11:12, John Martz so eloquently wrote: At the moment the only one I know of is Seagate's Momentus XT which I understand to be a 7200 RPM 2.5 drive with the traditional 32MB RAM cache but also a 4GB SSD. The pertinent difference here is probably not so much the 4GB of SSD but whatever dynamic caching algorithms Seagate has come up with. (I'm just guessing of course). Today Macworld posted a review of the Momentus XT here: http://www.macworld.com/article/154959/2010/10/momentusxthybrid.html or here if the above link wraps: http://tinyurl.com/296ml36 Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR 10.10 Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB 10.5.8 PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR 10.5.8 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
So where is the Wizard??? I would like to visit Oz!!! To see the Lion on a new Apple!!! P.S. This is how they never end... -Original Message- From: Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net Sent: Oct 27, 2010 10:48 AM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? On Oct 27, 2010, at 12:33 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote: On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Is this thread ever going to end? I have been wondering the same thing... :-) This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on and on, my friends... Someone started writing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue writing it forever just because, ... because because ... because ... because be-cause ... because of the wonderful things he does? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com […] The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right now. Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in to the toilet! WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in that? Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits too. Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger numbers. Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They simply don't need *us* anymore. Us being low-end-Mac owners. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 4:55 PM +0200 10/26/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: interface - cache - big flash cache organized as a SSD - HD. So, the performance of the SSD is mainly to make valued files, like startup files or files which are accessed very often, faster available through the SSD. Yea, sortof. The firmware in the device would have to be fairly clever tho. And realize that at that point, things are chunk or track oriented, not file. This will speed up the startup process A pure SSD boot would be faster, yes. But on a hybrid - I'm thinking no... The SSD is only supposed to hold data that is accessed (read or written) *frequently*. Consider that much of the stuff loaded at boot is read only once!, then kept in RAM forever (wired memory). Because of that infrequent use, I doubt the caching algorithm would ever put that data on the SSD. So... the boot process will be a series of SSD cache misses followed by standard latency/seek/read in the HD. Those extra misses will slow things down. and, as the operating system learns (which files are often requested), the daily work. The wearing level will be not very high in such a scenario, as the files have to be updated only now and then, as the software gets updated (security fixes and such) or as the user changes his/her working behaviour. Not the OS. The cache hit tracking in the device's firmware. It doesn't know files, just block addresses. FYI, for about the last two months I am now running my G3 BW from such a CF memory card using an CF-to-IDE adapter. It is slower than with the HDD I used before, but the advantage is that I can leave it running all the time without fearing the hard drive will break down - the original HDD was 10+ years old. It is also much lower noise now. And, I couldn't find a new hard drive that was 40 GB or so, which I needed since I have a Rev.1 G3 BW with the buggy IDE controller. Cool. It will be interesting to see how long the CF card lasts. Be sure to keep good backups. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.netwrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com […] The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right now. Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in to the toilet! WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in that? Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits too. Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger numbers. Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They simply don't need *us* anymore. Us being low-end-Mac owners. ___ When I do a web search If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents that are hard to find. If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ? Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries will follow the customs and requirements there. Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and the use of machines already sold ? Because, if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based becomes a lie. That is why. And you would not want the Happy Mac to be a liar would you ? Neither should Apple ! Just look at that face ! http://ihnatko.com/wp-content/2008/02/happy-mac.jpg http://www.tuaw.com/images/2005/11/switcher.jpg -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: netbooks. Netbook sales have crashed since the introduction of the iPad. Laptop sales have dominated the industry for several years now. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.netwrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They simply don't need *us* anymore. Us being low-end-Mac owners. When I do a web search If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents that are hard to find. If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ? In the archives of the state in which Apple was incorporated, which is likely California. Possibly in the Investor Information on Apple's web site. Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries will follow the customs and requirements there. No. A corporate charter is a legal document which is 99% boilerplate stating who the officers of the corporation are and how the company is set up. There is normally zero mention of customers or any mention of the country, other than the legal requirement to state the location of incorporation. What you're talking about sounds like a corporate 'mission statement' which is normally just marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the moment and has no legal standing whatsoever. Perhaps old corporate charters for things like the East India Company had such stuff in them, but the EIC was being chartered as a quasi-government. They had a standing army and navy. Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and the use of machines already sold ? Because, if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based becomes a lie. Call the waaahmbulance for that overinflated sense of entitlement you haveApple must sell me what I want or else they're EVIL!! All of Apple's public trust is based on one thing, and one thing only: they sell things that people happily want to exchange their money for. They're a company, a commercial venture, selling things that you may or may not purchase. They're not a religion, a country, or some deeply engrained social construct. A company, which sells things. No more, no less. If they don't sell you what you want, find someone who does, or, failing that, step into the breach yourself. Sell a computer as easy to use, with as well-made an OS, for $500; this is the essence of capitalism. Oh yeah, do it without copying their work, because, you know, it's *theirs*, no fair cheating... -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
From http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=107357p=irol-faq#corpinfo2 Q: What is Apple's mission statement? A: Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork, and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced its magical iPad which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices. You searched the wrong words. Corporate Charter may still be used, but Mission Statement is the more common term. Although this answer, above, is a bit underwhelming. On Oct 26, 12:12 pm, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Dienstag 26 Oktober 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Not the OS. The cache hit tracking in the device's firmware. It doesn't know files, just block addresses. Well, I read differently. This was discussed when Windows 7 was introduced. Apparently it can make use of this functionality and advice the firmware to hold certain “importaint” files, err, data in in the SDD part of the hybrid HDD. What I read is that the operating system can make heavy use of this hybrid thing, and if it does, it can be very very useful. If it doesn't… well, what you said then, you don't gain that much really. FYI, for about the last two months I am now running my G3 BW from such a CF memory card using an CF-to-IDE adapter. Cool. It will be interesting to see how long the CF card lasts. Be sure to keep good backups. I do. And yes, it will be interesting. I'll let you know when it breaks. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
RE: IS the world about to change ?
A friend of mine responded the below and I get the point. I think Bruce Johnson missed the point on that last poster. You're not exercising a sense of entitlement by pointing out that a corporation has abandoned their original core beliefs. If I offer to deliver a superior product while promising to avoid the forced obsolescence shenanigans characteristic of my competitors, and then break my promise, you're not displaying an entitlement complex by calling me on it. The problem is proving that abstaining from forced obsolescence shenanigans was ever promised. Ergo, the aforementioned marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the moment and has no legal standing whatsoever. It is the epitome of arrogance to position yourself a certain way in the marketplace -and earn the trust of your customers by hewing to a certain ethical standard, then crap all over the standard and blame your customers for being upset about it. When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. Jimi Hendrix Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens Jimi Hendrix -Original Message- From: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:g3-5-l...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 1:13 PM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.netwrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com Anyway, you have a point here. WHY should Apple change their strategy? They simply don't need *us* anymore. Us being low-end-Mac owners. When I do a web search If I do not see what I want in about 3 pages of links I give up because I am exhausted from wading through the mud of hypertext. My point is, is anyone here good at this ? At finding documents that are hard to find. If so could the Apple Corporate charter be found ? In the archives of the state in which Apple was incorporated, which is likely California. Possibly in the Investor Information on Apple's web site. Beside turning a profit is mentioned in that charter even, I would assume ir says something about how it Apple intends to serve the customers and the Nation within which it was founded. Of course charters for other countries will follow the customs and requirements there. No. A corporate charter is a legal document which is 99% boilerplate stating who the officers of the corporation are and how the company is set up. There is normally zero mention of customers or any mention of the country, other than the legal requirement to state the location of incorporation. What you're talking about sounds like a corporate 'mission statement' which is normally just marketroid gobbledegook that's changeble per the whims of the moment and has no legal standing whatsoever. Perhaps old corporate charters for things like the East India Company had such stuff in them, but the EIC was being chartered as a quasi-government. They had a standing army and navy. Why should Apple make that machine I mentioned at an affordable price ? And why should they avoid business decisions that deteriorate the function and the use of machines already sold ? Because, if they do not their whole philosophy of purpose and existence upon which they were founded and upon which public trust has been based becomes a lie. Call the waaahmbulance for that overinflated sense of entitlement you haveApple must sell me what I want or else they're EVIL!! All of Apple's public trust is based on one thing, and one thing only: they sell things that people happily want to exchange their money for. They're a company, a commercial venture, selling things that you may or may not purchase. They're not a religion, a country, or some deeply engrained social construct. A company, which sells things. No more, no less. If they don't sell you what you want, find someone who does, or, failing that, step into the breach yourself. Sell a computer as easy to use, with as well-made an OS, for $500; this is the essence of capitalism. Oh yeah, do it without copying their work, because, you know, it's *theirs*, no fair cheating... -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list This e-mail may contain Sprint Nextel proprietary information intended
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Is this thread ever going to end? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Mac User #330250 macuser330...@gmx.net wrote: -- Original message -- Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? Date:Freitag 22 Oktober 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com […] The world economy is in an awfully deep hole right now. Yet, Apple's sales are booming, while the companies that make those low-end and mid-range machines are watching their sales fall in to the toilet! WHY would you want Apple to get their feet wet in that? Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits too. Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: netbooks. Even electronic readers are starting to be sold in larger numbers. Here's a view of 'puter sales: http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601 JT Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25% If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc725f6f29da4694ccst06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 8:46 PM +0200 10/26/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: Not the OS. The cache hit tracking in the device's firmware. It doesn't know files, just block addresses. Well, I read differently. This was discussed when Windows 7 was introduced. Apparently it can make use of this functionality and advice the firmware to hold certain importaint files, err, data in in the SDD part of the hybrid HDD. What I read is that the operating system can make heavy use of this hybrid thing, and if it does, it can be very very useful. No. There is no special knowledge being exchanged between the OS and the hybrid drive. From the OS' POV the drive is simply a normal hard drive. In fact, many of the hybrid drives are even more limited than I've represented in this thread. The ideal case, as I described, is one where the flash memory is used to hold data bi-directionally. That means it speeds reads of data already contained therein. And it speeds writes by accepting the data and telling the OS the operation is done -- before the write-through to the HD is completed. But in fact, that doesn't seem to be the case with most of the hybrids on the market today! Turns out that most are simply read caches with no write-through capability. Case in point: the Seagate Momentus XT. Outside, this is a (up to) 500 GB laptop drive, with a 3 Gbps SATA or USB 3 interface. Inside, it has a 32 MB cache and a 4 GB SLC NAND flash bank (SSD), as well as the normal 7200 rpm HD mechanism. The NAND block is ONLY used as a *read* cache. That means that ALL writes to the drive hit the main cache only, then go directly to the HD. The NAND isn't filled until you pull off the HD repeatedly, +/- the caching algorithm! Why do it that way? Well, it reduces the number of writes to the flash memory by quite a bit. This gives the brick a longer life. ... Remember, the goal is to make this thing work at least one day beyond the warranty period. (Seagate is doing a 5 yr warranty on them, btw). - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits too. Here's a view of 'puter sales: http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601 Yea. 3.8% growth is not a boom. A few more quarters of that and those companies will have reorganizations. Oh, but Americans love honking big ugly SUVs! Lets keep makin 'em! - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, many of the hybrid drives are even more limited than I've represented in this thread. WHAT other hybrid drives?? I'd appreciate a pointer towards them because the only hybrid I'm am aware of at the moment is Seagate's Momentus XT. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 2010/10/26 13:14, Dan so eloquently wrote: Why do it that way? Well, it reduces the number of writes to the flash memory by quite a bit. This gives the brick a longer life. ... Remember, the goal is to make this thing work at least one day beyond the warranty period. (Seagate is doing a 5 yr warranty on them, btw). After reducing the warranties on the Barracuda line from five years to three I'm very surprised that they would offer a five year warranty on any kind of SSD. Regardless of the warranty, it will probably be a long time before I purchase any sort of aftermarket SSD. I love my thumb drives, but I consider them more or less disposable. I expect much more out of a long term data storage/retrieval system. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Swigart, Kurt A [NTK] wrote: I think Bruce Johnson missed the point on that last poster. You're not exercising a sense of entitlement by pointing out that a corporation has abandoned their original core beliefs. From where are you getting Apple's original core beliefs? The only such statement I've ever seen is in an interview with Steve Jobs several years ago (I believe it was in Time magazine) which was (paraphrased): Our primary goal at Apple is to make the coolest stuff on the planet, our secondary goal is to sell enough of that stuff to keep on making the coolest stuff on the planet. There's NEVER been ANYthing on Apple's part ever about 'avoiding forced obsolescence', indeed, given the pace of advancement in the computing industry, 'forced obsolescence' is a nonsensical term. We have gone, in the space of 40 years, from crude, character-based 8-bit systems (the Apple II) to what has been described as 'one of those cool hand computers you've always seen in those sci-fi movies' ; the iPad. Apple has built and deliberately demolished their business several times: Apple II to Mac, Mac OS to OS X (and on to iOS), PowerPC to Intel. They even killed one of their most popular products EVER, at the very peak of its popularity (the original iPod Nano) to make way for the next version. My point about 'sense of entitlement' was about Wallace pretty much demanding that Apple make 'a $500 midrange tower with slots and an upgradeable CPU' which is something that Apple HAS NEVER MADE. For one, $500 isn't 'midrange' anything, it's dirt cheap. The only concession they've EVER made to 'cheap' is the Mini. If I offer to deliver a superior product while promising to avoid the forced obsolescence shenanigans characteristic of my competitors, and then break my promise, you're not displaying an entitlement complex by calling me on it. When did Apple ever promise that? The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or another about 32-bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia. Truthfully, beyond hobbyists and specialized cases, there really ISN'T a large market for CPU upgrades, add-in cards, etc etc etc. They only flourished when Macs were hugely expensive (The G4-450 Sawtooth cost nearly $3300 in today's dollars) and Apple could not acquire the improved CPU's in quantity (most third-party add-ins were overclocked or part of the small numbers of processors that Motorola or IBM could produce that met the higher speed specs.) These things add nothing to Apple's bottom line, either. Microsoft's long been hampered by their inability to engage in the sort of creative destruction that Apple does routinely; it's only this week that they're finally forbidding their OEM's to stop installing Windows XP. That 'Long Tail' may suit the kind of corporate office systems that MS targets, but Apple has NEVER made any bones about not chasing that market. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 12:21 PM, Dan wrote: At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits too. Here's a view of 'puter sales: http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601 Yea. 3.8% growth is not a boom. A few more quarters of that and those companies will have reorganizations. Oh, but Americans love honking big ugly SUVs! Lets keep makin 'em! Gotta love that article, attributing the drop in low-end notebook and netbook sales to 'sales of the iPad and tablets like it', when were no 'tablets like it' shipping at the time. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 2:17 PM -0600 10/26/2010, Tina K. wrote: Regardless of the warranty, it will probably be a long time before I purchase any sort of aftermarket SSD. I love my thumb drives, but I consider them more or less disposable. I expect much more out of a long term data storage/retrieval system. The memory and controllers used to build the thumb drives are cheap stuff. To build a SSD, you gots to use better quality parts. But still, I agree with you... IMO, SSD is nice if you have a definitive need for the power savings in a laptop. But beyond that, eh. Maybe in a year or two when the tech evolves a bit more... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 1:21 PM, Dan wrote: At 2:02 PM -0600 10/26/2010, James Therrault wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Is that so? I heard that the computer segment in general is booming right now, not as much as Apple of course, but still, the market advances and the profits too. Here's a view of 'puter sales: http://c.bizjournals.com/ct/c/31738601 Yea. 3.8% growth is not a boom. A few more quarters of that and those companies will have reorganizations. Oh, but Americans love honking big ugly SUVs! Lets keep makin 'em! - Dan. Heh... Speakin' of big ugly SUVs, do a search to read about the current supertanker surplus and more are a-comin'! JT Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc752dc89c2047e7d7st02duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 4:34 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or another about 32-bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia. Probably guilty of both. But I still think it's going to happen. Felix -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Is this thread ever going to end? I have been wondering the same thing... :-) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:52 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:05 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: Sales of desktop computers in general are dropping in favour of portable units, like classic laptops or the “newly invented” smaller version of it: netbooks. Netbook sales have crashed since the introduction of the iPad. Laptop sales have dominated the industry for several years now. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD I intend to buy an ipad for She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed, Christmas. no 3g. Laptop would be overkill, like buying Granny Bugatti Veryon. The iPad is the perfect appliance for her 'computer' needs. I look at upgrading from current '04 dpG5 1.8 to a used intel 2.66 or 3 ghz, or may just wait till post christmas price drops. If i bought new, I would have to look very hard at the 27 iMac. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
But are the operating system (reaching 64-bit) and computers really changing much any more? They both seem to have matured to me. On Oct 26, 2010, at 4:34 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote: Apple has built and deliberately demolished their business several times: Apple II to Mac, Mac OS to OS X (and on to iOS), PowerPC to Intel. They even killed one of their most popular products EVER, at the very peak of its popularity (the original iPod Nano) to make way for the next version -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:53 PM, Ashgrove wrote: On Oct 26, 3:03 pm, Bill Connelly billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Is this thread ever going to end? I have been wondering the same thing... :-) This is the thread that never ends It goes on and on and on, my friends... Someone started writing it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue writing it forever just because, -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 26, 2010, at 6:52 PM, Ashgrove wrote: On Oct 26, 4:34 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: The only concrete example I can think of is at the Intel introduction where Jobs stated that the PowerPC was definitely going to be supported through the next OS version, which it was. 10.4 to 10.5 also took a lot longer than previous iterations of OS X. No one official has said anything one way or another about 32- bit Intel systems not being supported in 10.7. All we have to go on is rank speculation and rampant paranoia. Probably guilty of both. But I still think it's going to happen. For what it's worth, every Mac OS X release after 10.2 Jaguar (arguably the first viable release) has cut off support for some systems supported by the previous version. 10.3 Panther requires built-in USB (i.e. NewWorld), 10.4 Tiger requires built-in FireWire, 10.5 Leopard requires G4 or later, and 10.6 Snow Leopard requires an Intel processor. If 10.7 Lion supports every system supported by its predecessor, it would be the first time a successor to a viable OS X release did so. I'll wager that Lion doesn't support Core Duo systems. Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: I took a video project to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an early Intel Mac laptop. The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck! And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the machines of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If it had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should be ashamed. Huh? How in the hell should APPLE be embarrassed by something screwed up on some random person's laptop? Are you implying that no Apple laptop of similar vintage can run streaming video? Not at all. Am saying this should not happen on any newer Mac. Period. Did not say Apple should be embarrassed. I said if it was my machine I would be embarrassed. and pissed. At myself to begin with. An Intel Mac ! And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of a highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care too boot. Without even SEEING the machine, I'll wager it was a first gen Macbook with (places envelope to head a' la the great Karnak) 512 megs of RAM, running Tiger. I will inquire tactfully. And sorry to burst your bubble about 'access to a department IT guy', but 90% of the 'department IT guy's out there are MSCE types who couldn't give a crap about some professor's laptop. This campus is heavily Mac depending on the department. This prof is from music. What would and IT in the music building choose. What would music department heads choose. Do you think after spouting about my class experiences here for 6 years I would not have some inkling of what choice of platform various departments would be inclined to make.? Especially since 6 years ago you had to go 45 miles to find a Mac seller unless you knew a Mac store was here on campus. That was before all the ads and the Winblowz Macs. The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's pure happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness to dive into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni databases from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on a HP/Apollo minicomputer. Sad. no media,journalism,art,music departments? How mundane ! At the time we were limited to 4 macs on the network, because that's the minimum client pack Novell sold for Macs. In fact I was once officially reprimanded for providing Mac support. ALL of the Mac growth on our systems has come from the ground up, from the users, and even with my work, or official policy is 'Mac support is ad-hoc; you're mostly on your own'. This is pretty much typical for the vast majority of campus IT. _ I talk to our School of Mass Media and Journalism IT director ( saying the title backwards because I like it that way) several times a week at Starbucks. he even has a bevy of minions.and sports a straw cowboy hat and goatee. He is always pleased to talk Macs and kept a Sawtooth on his desk, not because he had to but because he liked it. That department has hundreds of Macs of all ages form the early Aught's to present. This department was put into a refurbed historic building and is state of the art for 3 years ago when it was completed. It replaces the building where the famous pisture was taken. You know the one Bruce. ( The rest of you can guess. I get tired of talking about it) . the least of them being iMacs. and ranging to big Mac Pro edit suites and mid range models to do audio and various chores. Newsies mostly get iMacs. But a room full of FCP machines is awe inspiring as is a RAID just for video of stdents the size of a cubic yard and a huge room for the building/class servers. Then there is a separate room for the TV studio. Student run ( There is another one on campus for the PBS station) Student TV is all Mac and all digital with an Odrade etc. Only proprietary TV studio systems which require them to use PCs like the title server have them. All recording from the digital cameras in the studio is to the highest def HD mac system and it's own huge server array. Droplets and scripts divide the recordings for archive and other uses. There are other macs on Campus., as i said depending on department and usage . Software APP driven. I hear the 3D CAD and animation departmet ( separate from all others !) uses Macs. Or at least the Profs. Can't Imaging students would have different machines as the rooms are configured so the prof can show software techniques. But the demand is getting too great for machines. Enrollment is at a record high and second in the state.I am too weak and tired to fight
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:16 PM, JoeTaxpayer joetaxpaye...@gmail.com wrote: I never say never, but I've been watching this industry for nearly 30 years, and suspect that until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X of HD, both will be there side by side depending on the platform it goes in. If you're going to discuss SSDs versus HDs then I suggest you also consider the relatively recent availability of hybrid SSD-HDs. At the moment the only one I know of is Seagate's Momentus XT which I understand to be a 7200 RPM 2.5 drive with the traditional 32MB RAM cache but also a 4GB SSD. The pertinent difference here is probably not so much the 4GB of SSD but whatever dynamic caching algorithms Seagate has come up with. (I'm just guessing of course). At any rate, in a lot of situations you can get closer to SSD performance in a HD for ~1.7 to 1.9x the cost of a 7200 RPM drive. I expect this price point to drop once the other manufacturer's start selling their me too hybrids. I expect the next step I'll take towards an SSD for my MacBook is likely to be in this hybrid direction rather than an actual SSD. I'm still in the waiting and watching phase at the moment. -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Flash only? WAS:Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 1:12 PM -0400 10/25/2010, John Martz wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 2:16 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote: I never say never, but I've been watching this industry for nearly 30 years, and suspect that until and unless SSD cost drops to a lower X of HD, both will be there side by side depending on the platform it goes in. If you're going to discuss SSDs versus HDs then I suggest you also consider the relatively recent availability of hybrid SSD-HDs. Yea. sigh. IMO, a stupid stupid idea. It is akin to partial-hybrid cars, you know, the gas-powered ones with electric assist that get lower gas mileage than many of today's modern all-gas cars. A stop gap for the industry to market to unsuspecting consumers, while they screw around instead of just putting out real hybrids (electric cars with gas assist) in the first place. At the moment the only one I know of is Seagate's Momentus XT which I understand to be a 7200 RPM 2.5 drive with the traditional 32MB RAM cache but also a 4GB SSD. The pertinent difference here is probably not so much the 4GB of SSD but whatever dynamic caching algorithms Seagate has come up with. (I'm just guessing of course). Let's think about this. Instead of interface - cache - HD, you now have interface - cache - big flash cache organized as a SSD - HD. Think about that. The firmware and hardware controllers, to drive the simpler design, have been in the field for years and are thoroughly debugged. So now they're adding a massive layer of complexity... How many firmware updates will there be? And how will your data suffer until they're released? Oh wait - most of these devices don't have user updatable firmware! Oh, but the performance of SSD! yea. heh. If this is a laptop form factor, then you still have the power sucking HD behind things. If this is a desktop then what exactly will it do for you that a RAM Disk couldn't do better? What happens when things gak before the write-through to the SSD then to the HD is completed? And then there's the problem of the life span of the flash memory (thousands of writes, not millions). Yea. Let's take a high-quality data retention and high re-write life device, and strap a lower-quality brick to its forehead. Sure the brick is faster. But it's still a brick. heh. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 24, 2010, at 11:13 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's pure happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness to dive into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni databases from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on a HP/Apollo minicomputer. Sad. no media,journalism,art,music departments? How mundane ! I work at the College of Pharmacy at the University of Arizona. Those others are in the College of Arts and Sciences (a new college that was just created by jamming together the College of Liberal Arts and the College of Sciences as a money-saving move ). They do have Macs, but the University has had it's state funding cut by 40% per student in the last ten years; and while we get to charge a special tuition, as a 'professional' graduate college, plus our research dollars, music is largely dependent on state funding. A lot of 'ownership' in those colleges, as in 'yer own yer ownership'. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 25, 2:13 am, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: That department has hundreds of Macs of all ages form the early Aught's to present. This department was put into a refurbed historic building and is state of the art for 3 years ago when it was completed. It replaces the building where the famous pisture was taken. You know the one Bruce. ( The rest of you can guess. I get tired of talking about it) . Pray tell. You can't just be mysterious and allude to famous pictures and get away with it. Spill. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text to be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color to intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the response to the original. I can tell you've never gotten a 'rich' text email from someone who used a font you didn't have and it ends up rendiring as one line of 3- point type...or the last entry here http://theoatmeal.com/comics/email -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:40 PM, John Callahan wrote: Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about IS the world about to change ? is and although I have read thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer. Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called Nannies have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone enlighten me please. Short answer: No. Longer answer: Yes, because the world ALWAYS changes. What everyone seems to forget that this was a sneak preview of features that were the splashiest. Apple got a load of criticism that 10.6 was short on features, even though it was a huge upgrade from the standpoint of performance and internal, under the hood stuff. This also represents a integration of iOS elements back into the Mac OS. I predict that many of these features will be like Dashboard or Spaces: some folks never run them, some folks couldn't live without. (in my case: one of each...I never use Dashboard, couldn't live without Spaces). Apple moving to the App Store was a business no-brainer. The longer- term implication that all the naysayers immediately leapt to is that this will be the ONLY means of getting apps on the Mac despite Job's explicit denial of that in the keynote neglects the reason for exclusivity in the iPhone apps store: To make sure nothing can screw up the basic phone functionality and to ensure that the iPhone doesn't crash, something far more important in the limited resource environment of the iPhone than the Mac. Note: the iTunes store is NOT the only place to get video or music for the iPod and iPhone. And no, Apple is not going to reverse itself and backport to the G5's, any more than Apple would back port OS X to the 68k (even though it originally started there). -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:33 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: I took a video project to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an early Intel Mac laptop. The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck! And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the machines of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If it had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should be ashamed. Huh? How in the hell should APPLE be embarrassed by something screwed up on some random person's laptop? Are you implying that no Apple laptop of similar vintage can run streaming video? An Intel Mac ! And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of a highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care too boot. Without even SEEING the machine, I'll wager it was a first gen Macbook with (places envelope to head a' la the great Karnak) 512 megs of RAM, running Tiger. And sorry to burst your bubble about 'access to a department IT guy', but 90% of the 'department IT guy's out there are MSCE types who couldn't give a crap about some professor's laptop. The ONLY reason our college has Mac support at ALL is me, and it's pure happenstance that I work where I work, because I had some experience programming, a teensy bit of database experience and a willingness to dive into terra incognita to port the College's financial and alumni databases from Ingres running on a Mini-Vax to a 'modern' Sybsase 4 system running on a HP/Apollo minicomputer. At the time we were limited to 4 macs on the network, because that's the minimum client pack Novell sold for Macs. In fact I was once officially reprimanded for providing Mac support. ALL of the Mac growth on our systems has come from the ground up, from the users, and even with my work, or official policy is 'Mac support is ad-hoc; you're mostly on your own'. This is pretty much typical for the vast majority of campus IT. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 24, 3:34 pm, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: (in my case: one of each...I never use Dashboard, couldn't live without Spaces). That makes two of us. I started using Desktop Manager in Tiger before Leopard even reared its spotted head, and was very grateful when Apple added the multiple simultaneous desktops to the OS via Spaces. It is a multitasker's dream come true. I have Dashboard disabled in all my Macs except my only Intel. I have zero use for it, other than decoration. But I know people who really use a lot of widgets all the time, so YMMV. Felix -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Oct 23, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text to be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color to intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the response to the original. I can tell you've never gotten a 'rich' text email from someone who used a font you didn't have and it ends up rendiring as one line of 3-point type...or the last entry here http://theoatmeal.com/comics/email - You mentioned that before Bruce. but you work in a University environment where people get creative. Out here most people have most of the common ones. Linux users have even more judging by my Debian variant.( I am a sad and reluctant Linux user at best) - -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 22, 2010, at 6:39 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM, glen glenst...@yahoo.com wrote: The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life (not just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them. -- Seriously consider it; they make life worthwhile. Evidently When you have done it all your life, make dos, work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. mean nothing to you. 64 years of it means I'm SICK of it to me. Same here. The same ol' thing just gets old. Gotcha beat by six years! I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and going though that makes you really wonder what is important on this planet. OK fear Apple is a bad choice of words; don't care would have been better choice of words. As far poor goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month. Still wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I set you off. I do appreciate your concerns. --glen PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;) Fair enough Glen. Hope you find a way to supplement your income. Eventually, inflation, (year it's there everytime you visit the supermarket), will work you into the poor farm. But The Steve only wants to help the already affluent. Another poster a couple of days ago suggested bringing back Wozniak for creativity. I think that Jobs is the creative one whereas Woz was the technical wiz kid. At any rate, ol' Steve has moved innovation into the marketing arena and has lost touch with what Apple used to be all about... JT Go Back to School Grant Funding May Be Available to Those Who Qualify http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc2c452ef7e03d1d87st04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Sarge3041969 electron25...@aol.comwrote: I am kinda wondering what we are supposed to do with all of these old Macs now that Apple has deemed them as useless? Maybe they will go the way of the old Mac Classics with everyone trying to make aquariums out of them? Strongest Mac project! Anyone else remember that? They used Classic and Color Classic Macs LOL Heck with them and their wallets, I will run My G4 until they stop selling electricity. I am on my G4 now. My Smurf and 8600/200 are on the desk as well, just not urned on at the moment. Nearly every old Mac I have still runs great. I think only 3 Pluses, t he 5260/100 the 5400/180 need to be worked on. O yes, the IIcx needs to have RAM installed -- Steve Conrad Henrietta, MO 64036 The time has come for mankind to grow up and leave its cradle behind; to go forth and claim our place in outer space. - Capt. Henry Gloval (\__/) (='.'=) ()_() Help Bunny Take Over The World! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic tools and using google to find fixes. The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and go low end. The only people I know who make money with computers seem to be the people who repair them for others who have no clue. Most people make money with skills, computers are just tools and recently just media devices. On Oct 23, 1:51 am, Richard Gerome onecoolka...@earthlink.net wrote: From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com When you have done it all your life, make dos, work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them. At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly. And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more well heeled than I. so what chance do I have? Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR ! THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard. LOW END to me means poor. People too poor to afford new computers. People too poor to afford costly repairs. People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs. If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent. Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his beginnings. Get it ? -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; fluxstringerfluxstrin...@gmail.comhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringerhttp://www.facebook.com/FluxStringerhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunicationshttp://flux-influx.blogspot.com/http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.comhttp://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is athttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-listScars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 6:55 AM -0700 10/23/2010, Powermac wrote: Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. Back in the 68k and PPC days, low end to me was any Mac not current. These days, low end to me is all 68k and PPC Macs, plus all Macs with x86 processors - current and previous. The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they need to make money. True, to a point. In this economy Macs are doing well while PCs are floundering -- so there must be something more to it. Selling only poorly made SUVs, in this decade, is perhaps not a great idea. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 2010/10/20 17:03, Eric Herbert so eloquently wrote: This sounds awful since I've been an Apple user since birth (Parents bought their first Apple 2 weeks before I was born!) but if Apple goes ahead with this kindergarten approach they show on Lion, I may consider running Windows. Don't do it, there's always linux! ;-) Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac teozen...@gmail.com wrote: Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic tools and using google to find fixes. Teo, How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux. I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for me. And a lot less The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and go low end. Preaching to the choir. But if The Steve remembers his anarchist hacker roots and has any empathy for the struggling masses and any belief at all in the bootstrap ability of low end capitalism ( a theory we do not hear the Chamber of Commerce preaching anymore, WHY ?) he would put out a $ 500 upgradeable,expandable Mac Mid Tower just to put his philosophy in the right place. And do not tell me it would be at a loss. It is all established tech. the development is already accomplished. Such a unit could be produced more easily than a button can be designed for an iPad app. And would sell like hotcakes. If other companies can see to the development of reading and communication for the third world why can't Apple throw a sop to the aspiring capitalist bootstrappers? I do not think this is asking too much from The Steve. And the good will and further consumer loyalty would bring returns for decades. I don't care anymore if a system bought new is only viable for a year or at the outside two ( horrific statement for a boomer right?) as long as I have made enough money to replace it. Corporations want a steadier cash-milk flow? Then let them provide an entry point to the dairy that is not so damned a big step at the bottom. As long as the milk is good and healthy what does the dairyman care about the size of the cow? ( content creators know Creative Cow analogies very well !) Apple has fostered content providers for decades and been rewarded well. Let them continue to be supportive. And without the need to gouge the teats. Smaller gentler demands will keep content creators working. And they are still a goodly portion of Apple customers. The only people I know who make money with computers seem to be the people who repair them for others who have no clue. Most people make money with skills, computers are just tools and recently just media devices. I'm sad you do not know any content creators. Not even a guy next door editing his band footage? Or an uncle in an attic trying to make the perfect porn compilation! Youngstown University must have some classes and coffee shops. Tusc campus of KSU too. Some campuses even have Apple stores to get the tools into the hands of students with mom-dad or otherwise clean credit records and no qualms about the costs as they have no idea how insanely hard it is to make a dollar. I know several here who now know. Years after graduation with a G4 'book they are paying off and a pile of student loan notices in the drawer. Some even sold their 'books or Minis for the price of a few pitchers of Goose Island and a lap dance. But this is a town where big careers have been made in media by a lucky few and anyway Macs go where the hype industry goes. Recently just media devices? Andy Warhol did a portrait at the Amiga inception in what 1985? Todd Rundgren did a self made animated music video on an Amiga back then too. Oh, yeah, you mean for recently just media devices for users of other platforms. I keep forgetting the dichotomy. But you are right, computers are just tools. And if Stanley priced their hammers and other tools like Apple prices computers far fewer carpenters could ply those skills. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 2010/10/20 10:50, john Carmonne so eloquently wrote: On Oct 20, 2010, at 9:26 AM, Fluxstringer wrote: Lion ? Will Lion be compatible with PPC G5? Don't we wish. On second thought, maybe not. Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote: Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic tools and using google to find fixes. Teo, How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux. I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for me. And a lot less The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and go low end. [snip] Why can't people quote properly? Read the above. It makes little sense. ___ I use the gmail client online. if you used it you would know how hard it is ( despite much trying) to intercut a conversation and eliminate the attribution line. The web app has a mind of it's own. And I get tired of fighting it. As was said to me bluntly before by someone :) GET over it! -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 6:25 PM + 10/23/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac wrote: Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic tools and using google to find fixes. Teo, How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux. I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a little shop on the corner. Creating content is a lot more satisfying for me. And a lot less The fact is the computer indistry doesn't care what you want, they need to make money. The reason you have so much crap loaded onto a new PC is because companies pay the OEMs to include it and that money is usually all the profit in selling new machines (outside of upgrades to base models). Apple could care less about basic low end machines because it cannot make the profit on them that it likes, and people who would have purchased a more profitable machine might get cheap and go low end. [snip] Why can't people quote properly? Read the above. It makes little sense. I just read an intercut personal message from a friend. Her use of the conversational alternatives reminds me that were rich text to be legitimized on LEM we could use text formatting such as font or color to intercut and clarify for those who are challenged by comparing the response to the original. And in so doing plain texters could still read the posts. And LEM would make a long delayed 20 year leap in what is allowed. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 2010/10/20 12:55, Kris Tilford so eloquently wrote: I went to the Apple site to watch the streaming video of the presentation and was rudely greeted with this: Streaming video requires Safari 4 or 5 on Mac OS X Snow Leopard or Safari on iOS 3 or later. I'm on a PPC G5 with 10.5.8 and current Safari v. 5.0.2 (5533.18.5) and I CAN'T see the streaming video because it REQUIRES Snow Leopard 10.6!!! Sometimes Apple is so insane. Strangely enough I'm now watching the presentation on my G5 PM in OmniWeb no less. Perhaps someone screwed up the system requirements? Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2, 1.25 GHz G4, 2 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB DDR Power Mac June 04, 2 GHz G5 DP, 8 GB RAM, GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL 256 MB PowerBook G4 15 Hi-Res DL-SD, 1.67 GHz G4, Radeon 9700 128 MB DDR -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
(snip) Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about IS the world about to change ? is and although I have read thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer. Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called Nannies have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone enlighten me please. John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went. --Will Rogers extreme positive = (ybya2) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 5:40 PM -0400 10/23/2010, John Callahan wrote: Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about IS the world about to change ? is and although I have read thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer. Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called Nannies have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone enlighten me please. Now is the time for panic. Yes, the world is changing. Apple is preparing a new version of OS X that will include new GUI stuff. Shock! Horrors! New GUI! OMG! Worse yet, it turns out that when Lion is released, the flux capacitors in your old Macs will implode -- leaving you nothing but burned out hulks. Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book. ...Marcus Tellius Cicero, statesman/orator/writer, (106-43 B.C.) - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 23, 2010, at 6:30 PM, Dan wrote: GUI A graphical user interface (GUI), often pronounced gooey,[1] is a type of user interface that allows users to interact with programs in more ways than typing such as computers; hand-held devices such as MP3 players, portable media players or gaming devices; household appliances and office equipment with images rather than text commands. A GUI offers graphical icons, and visual indicators, as opposed to text-based interfaces, typed command labels or text navigation to fully represent the information and actions available to a user. The actions are usually performed through direct manipulation of the graphical elements. Thanks Dan. John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went. --Will Rogers extreme positive = (ybya2) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Still have that 8500 case and the machine works great, but I have moved on to a G4 1.25Ghz Quicksilver for my fastest hobby mac (I am still a PC user for boring work related stuff). While I don't use the 8500 daily like I used to, that machine has been 100% reliable using the same components I purchased for it back in 2001. Maybe I am lucky but my hardware (even the ancient stuff) just seems to work forever, my issues tend to be brittle plastics (cosmetic). Few computer shops make money around here, mostly they just fix stuff other people can't be botherd to do (and mostly software). I feel sorry for owners who take machines to a shop to get them fixed at $50 a pop and the tech there is as bumb as a brick mindlessly swapping things until the machine stays on for 30 minutes then charging crazy money for cheap (and sometimes very used) parts. Its no wonder people just buy new all the time. My opinion is too many people want to make money sitting at home creating content with a computer (and willing to do it for next to nothing undercutting people with real talent). Many people would be much better off not going to college and learning a trade. People will allways need their roofs redone, plumbing fixed, oil changed, etc. On Oct 23, 2:25 pm, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Powermac teozen...@gmail.com wrote: Low end to me means the basic models, starter systems. If you are poor stick to an older used PC you can get for little money. Also learn to work on your own machines when they fail, this means buying some basic tools and using google to find fixes. Teo, How IS that 8500 case I handed over in Niles doing? Yeah, what you say WAS fine until you actually try to make some money with them. Then you realize how HARD it is. And whatever money you can make is wasted in a machine that is still problem fraught and unproductive.I guess the trying to make money part and the been doing that for way too long parts were not stated loudly enough. Hobbyist work arounds are fine when you are a hobbyist. When you want to CREATE the constant problems of old systems kill your effort. You Know me from this list at least from when we met in 2003. I think I have made myself plain about PC too. And do not forget my disdain of Linux. I want to create content. Being a perpetual computer mechanic may get you a little shop on the corner. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 9:40 PM, John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.comwrote: (snip) Recently I had the temerity to ask what all the conversation about IS the world about to change ? is and although I have read thousands of comments about the subject failed to receive an answer. Either no one knows or I have somehow done something to offend the Lords of the Manor (I know that the ones formerly called Nannies have a new title but don't remember what it is). Would someone enlighten me please. John Callahan First I heard about your plaint and i am the original poster. If and lords of the manor are offended I am first on their s*it list. The title subject headlined a one word post symbolizing the dilemma. The word was Lion? and was an interrogatory as to the ramifications a new OS VERSION as opposed to an incremental upgrade. As the last incremental upgrade has had people scrambling to adapt non supported hardware for a year. What torture and suffering will Lion bring. whose machine will not boot anymore. And will Apple let Tiger run or break it mercilessly to send users to the Apple store tearfully submitting all forms of plastic credit? And on top of that and implied in the title were other announcements by The Steve as to what new edicts will be imposed. As well as a day or so before the pronouncements about the i world pocket enslavement system and the superiority of that to the open source Android free world devices which are the hopes of the opposers to The Steve. Even though his humble beginnings were with the rebels he now renounces those fallacious doctrines and ridicules the codes they engender. The former list nannies ( I still call them that) are now given the title Most Celestial Servants of the Mac Mother Meetings are on alternate Tuesdays in the hall behind the rectory. I tried to -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
I took a video project to the talent's home tonight. They brought out an early Intel Mac laptop. The files were Quicktime. The small resolution overview played fine. The wide screen HQ files were only 1024 wide or so but played haltingly. Yuck! And streaming video off youtube was a joke. I do not mess with the machines of others. But there are 5 year old PCs that would not flinch at this. If it had been my machine I would have been very embarrassed. And Apple should be ashamed. An Intel Mac ! And too messed up to cut the mustard. Owned by the wife of a highly placed professor with access to a department IT guy. And Apple Care too boot. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
At 7:46 PM -0700 10/21/2010, ah...clem wrote: a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well-built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor). As I recall, the write-cycle for NAND is 200 to 300k per cell. And the write cycle for HD sectors is something over 100M per. Is that the right magnitudes current ballpark? if you made a SSD your boot drive (meaning you would be reading and writing more or less constantly) you can expect it to have a safe reliable life of 2-3 years. I think 2 to 3 years is highly optimistic. My pile of failing usb flash sticks aside, already, I'm seeing modded laptops with SSD failures -- after just a year or so of use. My impression is that SSD and high write-cycle usage such as paging, swap, scrach, photo editing, etc, just Do Not Mix. Now, the new crop of flash memory technologies are supposed to be better than the previous... lol ...This is a point of failure that we're going to have to keep our eye on, especially since we LEMfolk tend to deal with older / used machines that will be especially susceptible. I think a lot of our troubleshooting is based on the idea that if a drive isn't acting very wonky, it's fine. We're going to have to deal more and more with diagnosing file corruption issues. Mac OS X's code signing feature will help with that, from the OS' POV. But that won't protect our user data at all! - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, glen glenst...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Content with prettier eye candy sells ideas If you cannot keep up with the current style your content looks flaky and suspect. Think here of mimeographed political flyers when Xerox came out. The medium in itself is a semaphore subtexting and toning whatever it expresses. Rather than the democratizing effect that personal computers should have, if you cannot keep up financially your ability to put a message out is compromised. Your comments about the struggle on the street level I can well identify with. Steve jobs has lost touch with the needs of the masses he sought in the old days. Well, the mimeograph analogy is not the best but does serve a an example of waning technology. In the early 70's my political friends and I produced 2 3 color political flyers on a mimeograph. Xerox was a rather low quality black and white substitute at at that time. Even the Gestetner mimeo techs were amazed at what we could do with their machines and took samples of our work to their regional office. We were doing duotones on a mimeograph. It took Xerox another 30 years to get a decent color copier. --And we were hard pressed to buy food in those days. I guess the point, is that if we are creative enough we will find solutions to the latest technological advances we are faced with regardless of our budget (or lack of). I have no fear of Apple or any other corporate giant. Just deal with it!! --glen When you have done it all your life, make dos, work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them. At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly. And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more well heeled than I. so what chance do I have? Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR ! THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard. LOW END to me means poor. People too poor to afford new computers. People too poor to afford costly repairs. People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs. If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent. Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his beginnings. Get it ? -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: translation, not anytime soon. tho' a mechanical device, a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well- built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor). Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006. The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the factthat I was inspired by LION and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark side is what this is about -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta srigu...@tulanealumni.netwrote: On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: translation, not anytime soon. tho' a mechanical device, a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well- built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor). Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006. The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung. Uh, will they run LION ? -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta srigu...@tulanealumni.netwrote: On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: translation, not anytime soon. tho' a mechanical device, a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well- built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor). Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006. The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung. Uh, will they run LION ? _ Frickin' DUH ! -- HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny ! Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta srigu...@tulanealumni.netwrote: On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: translation, not anytime soon. tho' a mechanical device, a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well- built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor). Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006. The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung. Uh, will they run LION ? _ Frickin' DUH ! -- HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny ! Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it! SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent B77tard! Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Sri Gupta srigu...@tulanealumni.netwrote: On Oct 21, 9:46 pm, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: translation, not anytime soon. tho' a mechanical device, a HD's reliable life is still more than one order of magnitude greater than the best (most expensive) SSD currently available. SSD's have a finite number of read/write cycles that just doesn't compare to a well- built HD (quantum, seagate, maxtor). Quantum sold their hard drive division to Maxtor in 2001.. who were purchased lock, stock and barrel by Seagate in 2006. The big HD manufacturers left are Seagate, Western Digital, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba, and Samsung. Uh, will they run LION ? _ Frickin' DUH ! -- HEY ! Dude don't be so offensive ! I will report you to a Nanny ! Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it! SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent B77tard! Who you callin' an indigent! Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Title: Re: IS the world about to change ? At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the fact that I was inspired by LION and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark side is what this is about I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad. People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life. Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig. So replacing it with SSD makes sense. WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so. For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be minimal. And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo editing... probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their AppleCare contract. At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it! SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent B77tard! The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of Lion's standard environment. Threads drift. Get over it. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
This is the reason that I really don't care about new Apple products. I use what I use, and when something of mine breaks I look for the thing that does what it used to do in the nicest, cheapest, and fastest way possible. New apple products don't do things that my old Apple (and other manufacturers) products do faster, nor nicer, nor cheaper. On 10/22/10, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the fact that I was inspired by LION and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark side is what this is about I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad. People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life. Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig. So replacing it with SSD makes sense. WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so. For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be minimal. And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo editing... probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their AppleCare contract. At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it! SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent B77tard! The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of Lion's standard environment. Threads drift. Get over it. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC architecture. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is what this thread is about and not the fact that I was inspired by LION and Apple/Jobs going deep to the dark side is what this is about I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad. People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life. Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig. So replacing it with SSD makes sense. WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so. For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be minimal. And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo editing... probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their AppleCare contract. At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it! SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent B77tard! The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of Lion's standard environment. Threads drift. Get over it. - Dan. Yeah talk about drives are THAT important. Fiidling while Rome burns. The sky is falling and I am looking for opinions of how fast and what the impact radius of these Apple dictates changes might be and you want to remark in the color of the dust. Sure go ahead. No way I can stop you. Talk about a figure - ground schism! Sheesh! Even after someone tried to spin off the drive discussion in a courteous LEM user term compliant way. I can get over top posting. But thread hijackers and thread invaders still piss me off. Get over it. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:23 PM, Illirik Smirnov illir...@gmail.com wrote: This is the reason that I really don't care about new Apple products. I use what I use, and when something of mine breaks I look for the thing that does what it used to do in the nicest, cheapest, and fastest way possible. New apple products don't do things that my old Apple (and other manufacturers) products do faster, nor nicer, nor cheaper. Illrik When Apple's changes effect that use of your old Mac you will know it. And I think that will be soon if you do much work on it and it calls home. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com When you have done it all your life, make dos, work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired ... LOW END to me means poor. People too poor to afford new computers. People too poor to afford costly repairs. People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs. Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Get it ? - Nah, The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life (not just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them. --Seriously consider it; they make life worthwhile. I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and going though that makes you really wonder what is important on this planet. OK fear Apple is a bad choice of words; don't care would have been better choice of words. As far poor goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month. Still wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I set you off. I do appreciate your concerns. --glen PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;) -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 22, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Dan wrote: At 3:24 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Yeah, NAND cycles and SD vs HD is I think Apple is simply responding to customer desires, good or bad. People want laptops that are more rugged and have better battery life. Currently, the HD is a problem - it is fragile and a power pig. So replacing it with SSD makes sense. WRT the life of the device... Remember, these machines use Intel parts - so they are simply not designed to have a life beyond 3 years or so. For the *average* user that is overstocked with RAM, paging to the SSD will be minimal. And since those users only do a trivial amount of photo editing... probably the SSD will be ok, at least for the life of their AppleCare contract. At 3:30 PM + 10/22/2010, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: Well oh yeah, I'll tell you what you can do with your turning the thread about the complexities of Apple going to the dark side and hurting low enders from the real meaning of SD versus HDs and the NANO cycles etc. Much more important that you poor people concerned about how you can make money if Apple keeps up their S*it! SD vs HD is the crux of modern economics don't you GET it you indigent B77tard! The discussion of SSD vs HD is legit - it's going to be a BIG part of Lion's standard environment. Threads drift. Get over it. - Dan. -- for my 2 cents, after using an iPhone and my kids newer Macbook Pro, I like the finger sweep and find myself sometime reaching to the screen to enlage items with the finger spread. Of course soon realize doesn't work with this mac. As for keeping up with the Jones's I have a 2004 DP G5 1.8 that has reached its system limit, but still does everything I need it to do. I am debating upgrading to a (used) 2009 Mac Pro to keep up my kids (Daddy! it won't work!) but am willing to wait while the dust settles from the latest announcements. It was kinda annoying I could watch the speech on the iPhone, but not on my Mac... home user with a few thumb drives, SSD cards and older macs. Jeff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:59 PM, glen glenst...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com When you have done it all your life, make dos, work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired ... LOW END to me means poor. People too poor to afford new computers. People too poor to afford costly repairs. People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs. Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Get it ? - Nah, The make do's is what what life is about. Since I done the do's all my life (not just computers) , I don't know what I would do without them. --Seriously consider it; they make life worthwhile. Evidently When you have done it all your life, make dos, work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. mean nothing to you. 64 years of it means I'm SICK of it to me. I have lost two loved one's during the last year (stroke and cancer) and going though that makes you really wonder what is important on this planet. OK fear Apple is a bad choice of words; don't care would have been better choice of words. As far poor goes, I just received my first meager SS check this month. Still wonder if I can pay the heating bills. I live in New England. Sorry if I set you off. I do appreciate your concerns. --glen PS rants are OK by me --well within reason. -- ;) Fair enough Glen. Hope you find a way to supplement your income. But The Steve only wants to help the already affluent. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com/ http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
I like the way everyone keeps complaining about not being able to watch the Keynote... Apple does have an H.264 Apple Events podcast in iTunes, you know. On 10/22/10 8:36 PM, Jeff Bequette wrote: It was kinda annoying I could watch the speech on the iPhone, but not on my Mac... Jeff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Hey Wallace, Well said!!! I started out with a 1993 Performa 475 I bought used in 1996, it had a modoem you had to put your phone on to get online back then and sometimes it would take as long as 3hrs... I wasn't able to get a new one till Sears closed out their Apple Computers and sold them for 1/2 price in 2001 I bought my first and only brand new G3 366 Indigo Clamshell, paid $1100 after taxes for it and I am still using it after reworking it to get it to run Tiger now!!! I bought a used G4 1G processor and 1G memory TiBook in 2008 for $300 in a little beatup condition from craigslist and after checking ebay for parts to bring it back to new condition and tricking it out with faster HD and Super Dive and brandnew screen for another $225 I am almost ready to run Leopard on it, I just got a Disc tonight for $20 but I think I will run Tiger for as long as I can before I install it!!! The Clamshell, I use out on the road in coffee shops and such and it still atracts a lot attn from people and they can't believe I'm running Tiger in it and using my Sprint Broadband even though Sprint says I need 750 processor, it only has 466mhz with 576mb!!! Us poor people have to get creative and keep them going, I have some serious health issues and the computer has helped me out a lot with them for the past 11yrs so I will do what ever I can to surf the net!!! Thanks to this group and other web surfing I can do a lot with my old computers now!!! One thing I have learned about the Apple people today is they are starting to use there technoligy like a drug (Tech Pushers)... My computer is not a toy like others with their iPhones, iPods, iPod Touches and iPads... How can they go online with one of them anyway??? I can't even see the screens let alone whats on them...P.S. Oh yeah my car is 22yrs old with almost 350,000 miles on it with original eng and trans!!! Still gets me all over the country pulling a 19' 1966 Avion camper!!!-Original Message- From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio <fluxstrin...@gmail.com> Sent: Oct 22, 2010 11:22 AM To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, glen glenst...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com When you have done it all your life, " make dos", work arounds, Goldberg and McGivering get very old and tiresome. PCs promise a lot and deliver headaches whether 'Nux or Winslowz. I am tired , tired, tired i say. ( and the shouting masses behind me) I want an affordable mac that will do the job and be upgradeable in increments as I can afford them. At one time a used 7xoo filled that need. but the old clunker hasn't the horsepower to pull the tall gears of modern software even slowly.And saying it again for the upteenth time, Apple now actively working to break the balls of even much more recent machines demoralizes troupes more well heeled than I. so what chance do I have? Being poor does not seem to translate well even on Low End Mac pages ( If they are so poor why do they have or want computer? (TO USE AS TOOLS TO MAKE MONEY SO THEY WONT BE SO DAMNEDLY POOR ! THAT'sWHY !) [apologies to the sensitive. But one needs to shout when communications are not heard. LOW END to me means poor.People too poor to afford new computers.People too poor to afford costly repairs.People too poor to listen to the more affluent dismiss their needs.If poor is not translatable then NEW END Mac would be a good place rather than being tortured by the rants of the relatively indigent. Fear Apple? That is not the subject. Asking Apple for some GD slack is more like it. Asking The Steve for a crumb from the table. Appealing to his beginnings.Get it ?-- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringerfluxstrin...@gmail.comhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringerhttp://www.facebook.com/FluxStringerhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list Scars only tell us where we have been, they do not have to dictate where we are going... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options,
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 4:51 PM, Tom wrote: Here's a link to a Seattle Times article on the Lion operating system: http://tinyurl.com/24jese8 I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? G'day As the cost of flash memory drops, it appears likely that an OS will be developed that uses flash as it's boot and running ram, but hard drives will continue to be used for 'bulk' storage for some time to come. Hard drives offer roughly 20-30 time more storage for the same price as flash, and as still cameras and video continue to increase in their memory usage, they will require more storage on your computer. Hard drives are the only way at present, and may continue to be so as ways such as atomic level tunnelling microscope disks are now being researched. http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/32558.wss Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Brian Christmas wrote: As the cost of flash memory drops, it appears likely that an OS will be developed that uses flash as it's boot and running ram, but hard drives will continue to be used for 'bulk' storage for some time to come. Flash will become more common as a replacement for hard disks. But HDs will still beat out Flash for the foreseeable future for large capacity storage, it is going to take a while before some kind of solid state storage beats rotating magnetic storage in $/byte. You don't need to develop an OS that uses flash, the are lots of Flash drives now that are SATA drives and can be used just like a SATA HD. Flash isn't going to replace RAM, at least not for a long time. Flash isn't anywhere near as fast as RAM. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.comwrote: Lion ? --- It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves. Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means. And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group) But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ? Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged. And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags. Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ? I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience. I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad. That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 7:27 PM, Clark Martin wrote: On Oct 20, 2010, at 11:03 PM, Brian Christmas wrote: As the cost of flash memory drops, it appears likely that an OS will be developed that uses flash as it's boot and running ram, but hard drives will continue to be used for 'bulk' storage for some time to come. Flash will become more common as a replacement for hard disks. But HDs will still beat out Flash for the foreseeable future for large capacity storage, it is going to take a while before some kind of solid state storage beats rotating magnetic storage in $/byte. You don't need to develop an OS that uses flash, the are lots of Flash drives now that are SATA drives and can be used just like a SATA HD. Flash isn't going to replace RAM, at least not for a long time. Flash isn't anywhere near as fast as RAM. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting G'day Clark Flash is a type of RAM, albeit a slow address form. It definitely won't replace fast access RAM. What I envisage is four tiers of memory. 1. Fast RAM for the immediate use of the processor, built on the processor. (existing) 2. Fast RAM for use of the processor, but separate from it. (existing) 3. Dedicated slower RAM (but cheap, as in Flash) for page swapping when required, built into the OS. This MIGHT also be used for instant startup memory. 4. Hard Drive and Flash storage for long term data storage and page swapping overflow. (existing) At the moment, Flash drives can be used by the OS for page swapping, provided the drive is not filled up by long term storage. Having two drives is confusing to the end user, and I believe that a dedicated page swapping source of Flash is required, invisible to the user. Some of the types of RAM mentioned below are also slow. Regards Santa Types of RAM The following are some common types of RAM: SRAM: Static random access memory uses multiple transistors, typically four to six, for each memory cell but doesn't have a capacitor in each cell. It is used primarily for cache. DRAM: Dynamic random access memory has memory cells with a paired transistor andcapacitor requiring constant refreshing. FPM DRAM: Fast page mode dynamic random access memory was the original form of DRAM. It waits through the entire process of locating a bit of data by column and row and then reading the bit before it starts on the next bit. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 176 MBps. EDO DRAM: Extended data-out dynamic random access memory does not wait for all of the processing of the first bit before continuing to the next one. As soon as the address of the first bit is located, EDO DRAM begins looking for the next bit. It is about five percent faster than FPM. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 264 MBps. SDRAM: Synchronous dynamic random access memory takes advantage of the burst mode concept to greatly improve performance. It does this by staying on the row containing the requested bit and moving rapidly through the columns, reading each bit as it goes. The idea is that most of the time the data needed by the CPU will be in sequence. SDRAM is about five percent faster than EDO RAM and is the most common form in desktops today. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 528 MBps. DDR SDRAM: Double data rate synchronous dynamic RAM is just like SDRAM except that is has higher bandwidth, meaning greater speed. Maximum transfer rate to L2 cache is approximately 1,064 MBps (for DDR SDRAM 133 MHZ). RDRAM: Rambus dynamic random access memory is a radical departure from the previous DRAM architecture. Designed by Rambus, RDRAM uses a Rambus in-line memory module (RIMM), which is similar in size and pin configuration to a standard DIMM. What makes RDRAM so different is its use of a special high-speed data bus called the Rambus channel. RDRAM memory chips work in parallel to achieve a data rate of 800 MHz, or 1,600 MBps. Since they operate at such high speeds, they generate much more heat than other types of chips. To help dissipate the excess heat Rambus chips are fitted with a heat spreader, which looks like a long thin wafer. Just like there are smaller versions of DIMMs, there are also SO-RIMMs, designed for notebook computers. Credit Card Memory: Credit card memory is a proprietary self-contained DRAM memory module that plugs into a special slot for use in notebook computers. PCMCIA Memory Card: Another self-contained DRAM module for notebooks, cards of this type are not proprietary and should work with any notebook computer whose system bus matches the memory card's configuration. CMOS RAM: CMOS RAM is a term for the small amount of memory used by your computer and some other devices to remember things like hard disk settings -- see Why does my computer need a battery? for details. This memory uses a small battery to provide it with the power it needs to maintain the memory contents.
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Lion ? --- It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves. Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means. And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group) But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ? Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged. And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags. Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ? I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience. I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad. That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business. G'day Adrian Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking. My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24 iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27 iMacs, mainly cause some graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder). Pity the PC users still stuck with XP, or the graphics heavy version of it, Windows 7. As for the cost, I paid less, in actual Aussie dollars, far less in real terms, for my iMac than I did for a IIc with an extra floppy drive, and a 256 MB hard drive. Despite all this, I still love to see the strides being made; it proves to me that human ingenuity is alive and well, and I await with bated breath the next advances in all fields of endeavour that will take humanity to wherever the road takes us. Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. It's just how things work... JT blu Electronic Cigarettes Looks, feels, and tastes real. Enjoy the freedom to smoke anywhere. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc00fc6f03fd383216st04duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 9:40 AM, Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.comwrote: Lion ? --- It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves. Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means. And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group) But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ? Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged. And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags. Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ? I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience. I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad. That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business. G'day Adrian Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. Well here we go again. I did not really want or need to justify my opinion. But what the hell! right mate ? Yeah everything dies, ot for the glass half full types everything has a life cycle. But industry and capitalism is not satisfied with letting you Mac die at a ripe old age. They will cut off life support in the form of OS changes to make sure you buy LONG before you need to. Of course people of affluence needn't worry it's a write off. The rest of us like those who need to keep their old Macs running? Well, how many in this thread are ready to pitch their Gs out the door? In this thread someone even says they have a G5 and cannot see a streaming video ! Aren't you tired of having companies pushing you for more money and selling you stuff that they will make sure you will be dissatisfied with when the next OS comes out? That computer dies an unnatural early death. Not just planned obsolescence but forced obsolescence. It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking. Well that's just dandy ! I still have not forgiven the PC vested overlapped board of directors of Commodore for the early demise of the Amiga. It all went downhill after that ! How's that for a grudge!? If you have a Mac that is no longer able to do what you need and it is less than 4 years old why would you be on low end Mac? Yeah, computer systems evolve. Wait until next year when the just announced predictive logic systems hit the market. Everything sold today is already obsolete! Get it ! If you buy a just announced Mac tomorrow you are buying something that is 1000 times ( repeat; 1000 ) slower than what is coming next year. ( look it up for yourself). Can't we just have a Mac that a person can buy and keep it running no matter how slow. Just quit breaking it by no longer supporting the OS it runs on. Especially when it is not that frickin' old ! My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24 iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27 iMacs, mainly cause
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 10:02 PM, James Therrault wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. You're correct. The iPad proves it. It's a shift to program and content control, that the American mid-west would be proud of. And, as an Aussie, I have to add that our existing Government is on the same track with an opt-out internet censorship control that is just as onerous, but a least it's being touted as an opt-out system (which means there's a list, which certain people can refer to! Paranoia will out!). The run-away success of the iPad just might signal to Apple that the same thing can be done with Macs, and the conditions set for the start of the Mac store seems to indicate just that. Will people still buy a locked down machine and OS and content? You betcha! The iPads have proved it, even tho that great supporter of the internet, porn, is still available via browser; but even that might be removed in future. Will everyone buy such a machine? No way! I wouldn't for one, even tho I own, and my family loves, an iPad. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. Definitely some will, but will we be enough? I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Congratulations. My first was a IIe. Loved it. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) You should trade mark it, it might become widespread. Remember listers, you saw it here first. If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. Unless there's an early groundswelling, i doubt it. The hugely popular ascent of the iPad and iPhone with their controlled content seem to indicate that the unwashed/unthinking masses want to be fed controlled content. Australia might prove to be a testing ground. Many won't want to give up their freedoms, but will they be prepared to go on a list to keep up that ideology? It's just how things work... Yes it is. But in which way will they work? Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.comwrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. It's just how things work... And the predictive logic operating system and hardware may well be that brick wall. For MS too. -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model Very interesting. I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - I don't like the situation, what can I do about it? Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/10 7:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:40 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: Unfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned. That may be true but Marketing certainly is planned. And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I've been a Mac user, (Mac Plus by way of employment), since 1985. I bought my first Mac II way back in 1987. Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. ...And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984. Jobs is starting to look and sound like that big brother face on the screen in the famous 1984 commercial, glasses and all. That said, at least we can say is Apple doesn't sit on its laurels and is always trying to innovate (for better or worse). However they are a business and like everyone else they're in it for the money, innovations or not. If you notice in the media event, Jobs starts off with the business aspect of Apple i.e. $22 billion, Mac is 1/3 of Apple revenue, if they were just Macs they'd be no. 110 in Forbes top 500, etc. Apple is in the business of selling an experience. They want you to experience their product their way. The more control they have the less chaos for their user, the less flack they get as a business. Just take a look at the iPhone. It is a very controlled environment, BUT in the spirit of the old Apple days, people have found ways to make it their own by jail breaking it. I can see that happening with the Mac. Remember when we could only use certain optical drives with our Powermacs? Then along comes PatchBurn. Leave it to die hard Mac users to take back control. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:38 AM, Brian Christmas wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 10:02 PM, James Therrault wrote: If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. Unless there's an early groundswelling, i doubt it. The hugely popular ascent of the iPad and iPhone with their controlled content seem to indicate that the unwashed/unthinking masses want to be fed controlled content. I wouldn't assert that they actively *want* to be nannied, but rather they WANT SHINY, and are willing to give up their freedom for it. Though they might not be willing to *admit* that they're compromising. Many people would rather see a bright future than a bleak one -- even if that requires denying or ignoring unpleasant facts. So they dismiss concerns as somehow invalid (e.g. You're just jealous because Bill Gates is a billionaire and you're not.[1]) or display outright hostility to the messenger (Can't afford a new Mac? GET A JOB.) You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it. Yup, time to watch The Matrix again. Josh [1] Remember that one? It turned out that those who complained about Microsoft's workmanship and business practices weren't just blowing smoke, surprisingly enough. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model *Very* interesting. I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - *I don't like the situation, what can I do about it?* Regards Santa I thought you could afford the upgrade path, sorry I misunderstood. I ask myself the same thing every day. And I ask even if I buy a G5 or a low end Mac Pro how long can I use it for NLE before the OS can no longer get online for editing updates and other software duties? How long will Apple not kill it ? -- Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/ http://www.youtube.com/fluxstringer http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/ http://remnantsofthestorm.blogspot.com http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:38 AM, Arnel Tuazon wrote: On 21/10/10 7:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: And, I see Apple slipping into big brother mode which humankind will naturally resist. I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. ...And you'll see why 1984 won't be like 1984. Jobs is starting to look and sound like that big brother face on the screen in the famous 1984 commercial, glasses and all. For reference: Today, we celebrate the first glorious anniversary of the Information Purification Directives. We have created for the first time in all history, a garden of pure ideology. Where each worker may bloom secure from the pests of contradictory and confusing truths. Our Unification of Thoughts is more powerful a weapon than any fleet or army on earth. We are one people, with one will, one resolve, one cause. Our enemies shall talk themselves to death and we will bury them with their own confusion. We shall prevail! The integration vs. fragmentation dichotomy is straight from this script. Josh -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 10:58 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:33 AM, Brian Christmas b...@tpg.com.au wrote: On 21/10/2010, at 10:20 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model Very interesting. I feel like I'm in a different state tho, an calm analytical one, - I don't like the situation, what can I do about it? Regards Santa I thought you could afford the upgrade path, sorry I misunderstood. I ask myself the same thing every day. And I ask even if I buy a G5 or a low end Mac Pro how long can I use it for NLE before the OS can no longer get online for editing updates and other software duties? How long will Apple not kill it ? G'day again Adrian Thanks. To be honest, if I get paid for several software applications I've written pending approval, and sell my current machine on eBay, and throw in some extra, and get approval from my significant other, I might be able to get an i7 iMac. Big might. My current machine is only worth 30% of what I paid for it 18 months ago, so devaluation hits hard. But I really need a Power Mac for the Blender graphics I'm trying to write, which I simply can't justify, even to myself. Software advances to the limit of current processors, and my Core 2 duo is not cutting it. I have given myself a yearly budget to put towards a new computer, and try not to go over it, so might squeeze it in in a few months. Yearly internet access costs nearly as much. Computers are expensive hobbies. Contrast that tho with Windoze boxes that can hardly be given away after 2 years, unless the OS is completely restored. (I also know golfers, drinkers and smokers who spend more per annum on their hobbies than I do: self justification) The reason I'm a member of the Low End group is that over the years I've scrounged older machines, tricked them out, and given them to neighbours and friends, and still maintain them. Gets Macs into hands that appreciate them. The oldest is a G3 tangarine iMac, running X.3., but the best is a beige G3 desktop I used to own, fitted with 1GB RAM and a G4 daughter card at 1.6 GHz. running 10.4 really well. Still runs the latest version of iWork, and iMovie 6, and surfs the net with aplomb. Neighbours kids love it. How long have they got? How long's a piece of string? Certainly the webs moving to H264 as witness Apples videos (and Flash might survive) which use more processor power then older machines have, so the web experience will be diminished, but by the time that becomes heavily prevalent, I would hope an intel iMac might be had cheaply. Sorry, but the long term outlook for the net and existing older Macs doesn't look good. If Australias National Broadband Network (fibre to the node) gets off the ground, then the biggest speed bottleneck for the end user will be older computers. The main situation I don't like, and am taking a calm approach to, is Apples continued moves towards a closed system. What can I, as one person, do about it? Dunno. Perhaps hope for a groundswell, tho hope is a bit irrational. Perhaps I'll fire a calm email off to his Steveness in the hope he'll take note, especially if a few others are expressing the same feelings. Is this the anger stage of grief? I don't think so, as I don't feel anger; perhaps disappointment in that such a shining star as Apple seem to be moving in this direction. Regards Santa And what, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this.. Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged with numberless trillions of forms So that it might find itself innumerably Sri Aurobindo -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
the bottom line Air has only the flash drive and skinny to recommend it. As my high school daughter told her friend in the apple store one, day, It's a poser computer for looking pretty in coffee shops- no dvd, get a macbook instead. She was glared at by the genius in the area. If I was going to spend a grand on a computer, I certainly would not buy one slower that my current G5! On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:51 AM, Tom wrote: Here's a link to a Seattle Times article on the Lion operating system: http://tinyurl.com/24jese8 I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list Jeff Bequette -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
By default, the hard drive has been hidden on Every version of OS X. By d -- Bruce On Oct 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Chance Reecher cha...@reecher.net wrote: 2) The demo didn't show a hard drive on the desktop, but we'd still have access to it right? By default the hard drive is hidden from the Desktop in Snow, so I'd assume yes. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Hey Brian, I agree with you on that it is cool but: why is it we can't still run our old machines too without more trouble whenever they come out with faster and better stuff??? I don't care if it's slower I just want to do what I always did... They force us to buy the newer stuff by making our older stuff run worse... I have a friend with an old TiBook running Panther who can't use it anymore and he can not afford to upgrade it to Tiger and get few more yrs out of it... He lives in South America and I've been looking for a Tiger disc and more memory for him cheap enough for me to afford and mail it to him so we can still stay in touch by emails and Scipe (mailing him letters would prob take a week from the USA) and by then the news up here to him is too late... Not only are some of us retired and living on fixed incomes some of us had to file for bankruptcy and are not making anything at all... In his case he lost his home and business and had to move back with his relatives down there... Us poor people always have to suffer and get creative just to keep up... Today you need a computer to get a job because they are now online... They don't even hire you now because they do a credit check too ("hey I'm here for a job not a loan") I got into this credit problem because of loosing my job in the first place... WTF is this all about???-Original Message-
From: Brian Christmas <b...@tpg.com.au>
Sent: Oct 21, 2010 5:40 AM
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ?
On 21/10/2010, at 7:51 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Fluxstringer fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote:
Lion ?
---It looks like my one word post and simple title question have hit some nerves.
Money talks and BS does not want to pay to play ( or cannot afford to ) I would step up and buy the stuff if I could afford it Steve. But you who introduced home computers at an affordable price have lost sight of those of us with modest or even less than modest means.
And your media hype rant against Android still seems way out of character for a phone hacker who now evidently does not think consumers should buy phones they can hack themselves to their own need. Are we going back to the " you can have it in any color as long as it is what we want to sell " days? ( more on that in the LEMlist group)
But yes the world needs great computers like the Mac still. But wringing the pockets of users ? How long can that be sustained in a bad economy ? Boutique brand for elitists. Or affordable tools for everyone. What will it be Steve ?
Perhaps some control is needed to make everything work correctly. But it is looking like Apple profit is the motive rather than quality for the user when every aspect of the market has to be micromanaged.And how long will the new stuff be good for. I'm still saving for the G5 I could not afford 5 years ago. And those with G5s are crying because their machines are sitting on shelves next to 7200s albeit with much more hopeful price tags.
Can the low end consumer ( who needs a reliable machine that is not maddening more than anyone ) ever get a break from Apple ? 'That $ 500 mid tower anywhere near release date ?I think it's time to ditch the G machines and support Steve by buying iPads. It's the closest thing many here will ever get or afford of the current Apple experience.
I sm going to hurry to do this because in six months the new OS for that will come out. And a year from then the version after that won't run on the my year old iPad.That planned obsolescence idea is really ramping up faster these days. It must be good for business.G'day AdrianUnfortunately obsolescence is a fact of life in the electronics industry, even tho it's not planned.It's basically bought about by the inquiring minds of talented people that love to invent new things; in our case, it's advances in processors, memory, communication (in it's many varied forms), programming, storage, and perhaps information control (if we let it). With these advances, the older hardware just can't cut the mustard, and the gaps seem to be constantly shrinking.My heart bleeds for those of us who can't, for one reason or another, keep up with the immediate advances, but I constantly remind myself that I'm glad the world of computers did not freeze up with the advent of my old Apple IIe. I'm lucky enough that I own an intel 24" iMac, but I'm ashamed to say I lustfully look at the new i7 27" iMacs, mainly cause some graphics I'm trying to write for an iPad app are too slow rendering on my core 2 duo. I'm lucky; I earn a small amount programming for Macs, that as a retiree keeps my family in iMacs. If I had to justify my requirements to my other halfs requirements only, I'd still own my old 1.8 G5, running 10.3, and my kids would own Windblown PC's (shudder). Pity the PC users still stuck wi
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 20, 2010, at 10:51 PM, Tom wrote: I notice that Apple's new laptop computers will have flash drives instead of hard drives. Does that mean that flash drives will eventually replace hard drives in all computers, then? That's been predicted for about 20 years now. Hard drives are one of the few mechanical devices left on computers, and the ones most prone to catastrophic failure (if your optical drive, keyboard or mouse dies, you can keep working, if the HDD goes so does your data ) They're finally coming down in price thanks, at least in part, to Apple, whose ginormous purchases of flash memory have helped bring about the economies of scale needed. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:20 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: This may help. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model You DO know that research has shown her model is as valid as the Phlogiston model of chemistry, right? Well-reasoned, meticulously detailed and utterly fractal in it's wrongness... -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 4:38 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 11:02 AM, James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com wrote: snip Since that time, I've seen Apple go through two major OS changes, (68xxx, PPC and lastly Intel), and while each of these changes certainly advanced the user's experience, I have detected a creaping feeling of the heavy thumb of Applelonian control. (How's that for a new word? G) If things turn out as many are suggesting, Apple's ascension may run smack into a brick wall. It's just how things work... And the predictive logic operating system and hardware may well be that brick wall. For MS too. I think that MS has already become a mature organization. They simply don't have a Jobs type leadership that truly innovates. Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Apple with all its cash needs to take care of its customers/followers better. There's only so much abuse that folks will tolerate and in my view, they are reaching that point... JT Mortgage Rates Hit 3.25% If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc05b42ce9e2303d7ast03duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self-destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression.) I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer. Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks. Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc. Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such. If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac. You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone style of youtube drama. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
If we lose the optical disk what will we have for archiving? Financial data coming from the bank is rapidly moving to computer files. What about those pictures we take to help in filing a fire insurance claim? Your last decade of income tax filings. Home-written CD-ROMs are not the best but they seem to be pretty good for half a decade and perhaps longer if protected from the environment. Pressed optical disks are very much better but not suitable for the likes of personal financial records because of initial expense. Floppies are terrible. So is magnetic tape. Flash, which is stored charge on MOSFET gates, will never be archival. Resistors that exhibit two crystal states have interesting possibilities but are quite a way off. Off-site storage as encrypted files on a trusted server with associated charges is available but costly and subject to government interference. Printed paper in a safe deposit box seems to be the best except for icons chiseled into granite. Punched paper rolls of piano music are the highest fidelity source of old music. What are Apple Entertainment, Inc. and the Lion King (Disney, Pixar) doing to help? -- -- Halloween == Oct 31 == Dec 25 == Christmas -- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:21 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self- destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. And that's exactly why a company/organization can self destruct. Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Again, my point is verified. A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH. Notice I did say, regardless of reason. I read Bloomberg too. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression.) Nothing new here. The market is irrational. I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer. Really? I think that you may be drinking too much koolaid. Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks. So nothing but the corporate line for you, eh? Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc. Maybe Jobs will get Al Gore to do that... render them inoperable.. Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such. Hey, NT was the last, (and maybe first), decent windoze OS. If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year- old Mac. Wow, somebody musta really peed in you cornflakes! I cannot recall anyone here demanding the latest and greatest for their old Macs. Just continued usability and a hint of support is all. You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone style of youtube drama. This is the most irrational post that I have seen from you Bruce. Entitlement has nothing to do with it. Call it the nurturing of the Mac culture. As for leaving it to utube drama, you've done quite well here... JT SHOCKING: 2010 Honda Civic for $1,734.09 Is this price real? YES! We reveal the TRUTH! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4cc07be5cdfca3cad3fst01duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Oct 21, 2010, at 9:24 AM, James Therrault wrote: Some years back, Michael Dell made an utterance to the effect, We are now in Chapter X of computing and when Chapter Xx is written, Apple won't be in it. If one follows stocks at all, Dell's been languishing in the cellar while Apple's in the stratosphere. But this doesn't mean that Apple is imune from self destructing. Just look at last week's girations after Apple revealed iPad sales below expectations, (regardless of reason). Do not EVER convolute Wall Street stock fluctuations with 'self-destructing'. The biggest lie in capitalism today is the concept of a 'rational market'. Or as Kay put it succinctly in 'Men in Black: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. A company can do things that cause it to self-destruct, and the stock market will notice it, but the reason that Apple didn't sell as many iPads as Wall Street analysts (not Apple, btw) predicted is because Apple COULD NOT MAKE THEM FAST ENOUGH. Apple announced their most profitable quarter EVER in the history of the company, and investors responded by complaining that it wasn't *enough* profit. (This said in the midst of the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression.) I haven't seen this much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments since, I don't know, the introduction of Intel macs or even the intro of OS X and the horrifying realization that you had a user account on your own computer. Jeebus, get the heck over yourselves, folks. Computing technology is a tsunami, and it always has been. You surf it or get off, but regardless of what you do it moves inexorably forward. No one is going to come stomp on your old Macs to render them inoperable the moment 10.7 comes out, and it's not APPLE making Adobe write Flash plugins that don't work with PPC macs or OS 9, etc etc etc. Someone on this list who hasn't bought a new Mac in a decade has no grounds to bitch and moan...you're literally looking for a free ride. This is the very thing that's made Microsoft the lumbering dinosaur it is, having to provide that free ride to the folks still running Windows NT 2000 and such. If you don't like it there are alternatives: Windows, Linux, Chrome, just getting by on older Macs, but don't come here wailing about Apple becoming your overlord and locking you down and denying you your right to the latest and greatest goodies on your 6-year-old Mac. You just sound like whiny brats with exaggerated senses of entitlement. If you don't like what Apple is doing, vote with your wallet. Vote with your feet. This is how to effectively do it. Wailing on and on about how Steve Jobs is oppressing you and shackling you into slavery is more suited to the 'Leeeave Britney Aloone style of youtube drama. Good grief: a rational and well-expressed argument. Yes, I was happy with my early 2005 G5 dual 2.0. Then I found it essential to run CS5, and to become experienced with Snow Leopard. So I have a 2009 MacPro. Best beloved has the G5 now, and it is so far, more than adequate for her needs. I will continue with my MacPro as long as it is viable:- note, viable not feasible. This takes into account time spent on 'maintenance', speed of operation and compatibility with my employer's Macs, for which I have assumed responsibility (IT are scared, if it isn't Windows...). If I only perused the web, wrote the odd letter etc., I could still be running my old Beige G3 Panther, but although there are always new developments to which my initial reaction is not ecstatic, it usually isn't too long before a bit of lateral thinking shows me where it can be of great use to me. Jaguar, BMW or any other prestige motor manufacturer does not stay in business by ensuring they have a sub £5,000 offering, or that their newest model has most of its components interchangeable with those in a 2002 model. Yes, that might seem harsh to many of those of more modest means - believe me, acquiring my MacPro entailed lots of sacrifices - some still ongoing. But overall, it is and will continue to be worth it. Just my 2 pennyworth Ted -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: IS the world about to change ?
I'm confused! What is this change that so many people are talking about? Thanks On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:12 AM, Richard Gerome wrote: Subject: Re: IS the world about to change ? I'm not as young as I used to be But I'm not as old as I'm going to be! SO WATCH IT!!! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
