Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Thank you! saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Steven Strait" To: Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 1:08 AM Subject: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than most of you do. First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people grief. Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue it full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty problems. It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or even have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely doable but will require a lot more work to make it happen. Anyways, my long rant is over. Lol! Keep gaming my friends! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
well I do a tech article or so on a blog I share. This stuff happens all the time. Sony has got it 3 times this year alone. Ms has got it twice cince I have been on though no big dammage. Everyone can be hacked, its how we handle it. My way is to have security which will tell me if someone is getting in or handle it for me. Rather than something telling me every ip access. Still its coman knowledge at least in the industry as a hole that this happens daily its just most don't know or care. Its a normal downside to the net. I read about stuff that would probably stop some of you from ever going online again. At 05:11 a.m. 19/07/2011, you wrote: You make a great point. The biggest company can fall to such an attack. Take Sony for instance. it was hacked about a month ago, and it's still recovering. as of this writing, the log-in pages are still under maintanence. This wasn't a simple attack either. All users with PSN accounts were victimized. our info was stolen, and not even Sony knows how bad it really was. to make things even worse, many users use the same passwords on many different services. so their entire identity could've been compromized. We're talking here of a playerbase of millions. Imagine millions of creditcards in the hands of a hacker or group of hackers? Every single PSN user with a credit card was offered a free year of All Clear ID Plus free of charge. Sony's reputation is now being questioned by many, including congress. But what people don't realize is that any company can fall to such an attack. Happened to Nintendo a few weeks ago, although not much damage was done. And if these cyber terrorissts want to go after Microsoft as well, not many can stop them. I know I probably come across as paranoid, but be careful with your info guys. Even banks, and the FBI have been hacked in the past. Nothing's safe when it comes to online threats. best we can do is to be on top of things, and use different passwords for all our accounts. Just last night for example, netflix went down. everyone kept getting a cannot display webpage error. we still don't know what's going on. Since netflix essentially increased prices about a week ago, everyone thinks it was a rebellious attack by anonymous or some other vigelanty group. All I know is they'd better compensate paying customers or they'll risk losing many of us. Blockbuster's already made their move to sway us lol. I got a 1 month free trial, 2 discs at a time activated this morning haha. They fight, we save. sounds good to me! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
yeah there are some sore loosers. My brother has the same thing in tenis. There are just people in this world that when they don't get things they want throw a wobbly as a friend calls it. At 02:09 a.m. 19/07/2011, you wrote: Hatred, I know exactly what you mean. I hang around gaming forums, and I also play mainstream games. once I was playing Super Street Fighter online and I was beating my opponent. they got mad because according to them I was being cheap. so they start talking some trash. I challenge them again, and this time I don't throw a single fireball and still beat them. but the guy starts blaming me of hitting him in the corner, and doing too many combos. do we ever win with some gamers? haha. that's not even the worst either. some people actually use something called a lag switch to ruin gaming. bet anyone on here with mainstream gaming experience has experienced it at some point. your character basically stands there, lagging horribly, but the opponent doesn't, guaranteeing a loss. I didn't even know lag switches were actually a real device until I started researching them. I always thought oh this is just normal lag, trying to think the best of people. but now I know some gamers will stoop to any level to ruin everyone else's experience. Granted there are lots of really awesome gamers out there. I've even played people who actually give advice, and strategies. but the sighted gaming community is so large that finding the bad apples is a lot easier than when you're dealing with our community. with mainstream games, every time you play with large groups or teams, you're almost guaranteed to get trolled by some sad individual that just can't take a loss. - Original Message - From: "Steven Strait" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 6:08 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than most of you do. First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people grief. Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue it full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty problems. It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or even have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely doable but will require a lot more work to make
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Hi hatred and all, Many years ago back in 99, I started playing x beyond the frontier. In my opinion 1 of the best space games ever invented. It goes along side elite for sure. But back then it didn't hold much interest with the wider community. The advantage of that is that the forums were great fun! The game is single player, but on the forums we had roleplaying guilds, pretend guild wars, we even had a convention to celebrate just how great the game was and the community as a whole. Well as the series progressed, first x-tention, then x2 the threat, the community really started to get far far bigger and that's when the problems really started. The fun of being on the boards became not so fun and quite quickly. Not so much because of hackers and the like, but because there were plenty of trolls on there. moderators who would previously join in with the mucking around became more like police. The nice little family we had was destroyed basically because the community as a whole just wasn't ready. It went from being 1 thing to the exact opposite. I don't go on those forums anymore even though the x series of games has continued on. A lot of very well respected forum members who contributed in loads of ways whether it was creative writing or various forms of animation, most notably stories like the rogue's testament trilogy an the traders tale series of stories. Even if you have never played the games before you could well enjoy these stories. I guess what I'm really trying to say is that when it comes to this community, there is a very different mind-set overall between here and lets say the wider gaming world. I want to see the 2 types of games merge that's for sure, but I will echo hatred's word of caution here. for example, the vast majority of gaming forums aren't mailing lists. They are web based forums. You could never have a board with several thousand members or several tens of thousands of members on an email list it would create to much traffic. The blind community would be forced to adapt, which I think it should personally. But that is the least of anybody's concern being very honest. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
You make a great point. The biggest company can fall to such an attack. Take Sony for instance. it was hacked about a month ago, and it's still recovering. as of this writing, the log-in pages are still under maintanence. This wasn't a simple attack either. All users with PSN accounts were victimized. our info was stolen, and not even Sony knows how bad it really was. to make things even worse, many users use the same passwords on many different services. so their entire identity could've been compromized. We're talking here of a playerbase of millions. Imagine millions of creditcards in the hands of a hacker or group of hackers? Every single PSN user with a credit card was offered a free year of All Clear ID Plus free of charge. Sony's reputation is now being questioned by many, including congress. But what people don't realize is that any company can fall to such an attack. Happened to Nintendo a few weeks ago, although not much damage was done. And if these cyber terrorissts want to go after Microsoft as well, not many can stop them. I know I probably come across as paranoid, but be careful with your info guys. Even banks, and the FBI have been hacked in the past. Nothing's safe when it comes to online threats. best we can do is to be on top of things, and use different passwords for all our accounts. Just last night for example, netflix went down. everyone kept getting a cannot display webpage error. we still don't know what's going on. Since netflix essentially increased prices about a week ago, everyone thinks it was a rebellious attack by anonymous or some other vigelanty group. All I know is they'd better compensate paying customers or they'll risk losing many of us. Blockbuster's already made their move to sway us lol. I got a 1 month free trial, 2 discs at a time activated this morning haha. They fight, we save. sounds good to me! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Totally agree with you. Even simple games should have some type of multiplayer feature. in fact. Uno on the PS3 has multiplayer. when a game doesn't have this people get furious and many refuse to buy it. so multiplayer nowadays is a rule, and games that don't have it are the exception. devs that don't include such features usually end up paying for it in the pocketbook, where it hurts. in fact, multiplayer is a business within itself. nowadays there's this new trend which is annoying lots of people. most companies are implementing what they call online passes. if you buy games used, you must pay a one-time fee, usually around $10, to access multiplayer content. if you buy new, a code to redeem such features is included free of charge. for blind mainstream gamers, such practices are quite annoying, but I can see why companies implement these measures. running these servers, which often contain thousands of people playing on them simultaneously can't be cheap. I always buy new, mainly cause I can't trust that someone didn't stomp all over the used disc I'm buying, so this doesn't phase me at all. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Well I started writing a response here last night, but my internet page lost the 8 long paragraphs I had written, so I, frustrated, just went to bed haha. Dennis, I think Hatred's post is referring less to bringing in individual sighted gamers, and is more about actually exposing this community to the sighted world. There is a difference. It also seems like this community has seen some trouble makers, but it still doesn't seem like it has ever encountered the kinds of people Hatred, and I, are worried about. Someone who spams messages in the forum, someone who cheats to make themselves invincible in audio quake, or someone who intentionally causes arguments with everyone, is a pest, but not any serious threat. For the most part, they are an annoyance, and they can be gotten rid of fairly easily. The people we need to worry about, are the ones who are skilled, and will actively try new things until they accomplish their goal of breaking everything. It is a little like comparing a neighborhood thug, to a terrorist who blows buildings up. To cite examples that I've seen myself, see how the mind set of these people differs from what you're used to. We are used to seeing occasional spam bots, that posts 1 to 5 messages, and then move on. They are here to try to promote some website or product, and they can be removed with a few steps to add them to a ban list. I've been on forums that were targeted by the wrong sort of people. They wrote software to post automatically on the board, bypassing capchas and other security, that posted literally thousands of gibberish posts every few minutes! You've never come to the board seeing 40,000 new posts, but that's real, not just some hypothetical situation. Finally an admin finds a way to remove all posts by that user, so a few days later it happens again, but this time it is spread out over a thousand randomly generated accounts. When admins find a way to remove those, it happens again but using different ip addresses. I've seen at least 1 message board where the people hacked into the administrator controls so they could simply remove the whole board. This is a far far cry from spam bots, or the occasional community member who has stirred up trouble in the past. When it comes to gaming, we've all dealt with the player who spammed messages or cheated so he had an advantage during the game. Sure that is annoying, but that's not the kind of thing Hatred and I are talking about. More times than I can remember, I've been in games where suddenly the server crashes and everyone has to wait for an administrator to restart it. Of course, the same person would crash it as soon as he realized it was going again. So, the combat this, the developers worked on ways to patch the ways they using to bring the servers down. None lasted for more than a week before servers were crashing again. To help things, they remade the servers so that they automatically restarted whenever they crashed, so that people didn't have to wait around for hours, before an admin noticed they were down. Of course, this took much of the fun out of crashing the servers, so they came up with a new attack. Instead of crashing, everything crawled and lagged to a halt. The server freezes and no one can play, and because it is frozen and not crashed, it never restarts. I have been in gaming communities where people's computers were hacked, and damaged. I've been in some where email accounts were listed along with player's profiles, so to scare away the game's players, the hackers broke in to their email addresses and changed the passwords. Of course not everyone's email, but even having it happen to a few people, who probably didn't have strong passwords, was enough to scare away many players. It is all a mix of programming attacks, and social intimidation. And for some reason, this is how these people get their thrills. They don't stop until the players have left, and the game is considered dead. These are the people Hatred is referring to. It is true that the majority of mainstream gamers will be fun loving people, who would be great to play games with, but the more people we gain, the bigger the target we become for someone who wants to cause havoc. And if anyone things it is only the larger games that get attacked, that isn't true, because I have personally had one of my own indie games targeted years ago. We probably both sound extremely negative, but we just want to bring attention to the threats that Are! out there. Since it is what the community wants, I will do what I can to push for attracting sighted players to our games, I just wanted to make sure everyone knew the long term risks. It isn't fair for people to find out about these kinds of people, when they're faced with servers that don't work, email account that they can't get in to, and a message board with 40,000 spam topics. Haha! --- Gamers mailing list
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Hatred, I know exactly what you mean. I hang around gaming forums, and I also play mainstream games. once I was playing Super Street Fighter online and I was beating my opponent. they got mad because according to them I was being cheap. so they start talking some trash. I challenge them again, and this time I don't throw a single fireball and still beat them. but the guy starts blaming me of hitting him in the corner, and doing too many combos. do we ever win with some gamers? haha. that's not even the worst either. some people actually use something called a lag switch to ruin gaming. bet anyone on here with mainstream gaming experience has experienced it at some point. your character basically stands there, lagging horribly, but the opponent doesn't, guaranteeing a loss. I didn't even know lag switches were actually a real device until I started researching them. I always thought oh this is just normal lag, trying to think the best of people. but now I know some gamers will stoop to any level to ruin everyone else's experience. Granted there are lots of really awesome gamers out there. I've even played people who actually give advice, and strategies. but the sighted gaming community is so large that finding the bad apples is a lot easier than when you're dealing with our community. with mainstream games, every time you play with large groups or teams, you're almost guaranteed to get trolled by some sad individual that just can't take a loss. - Original Message - From: "Steven Strait" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 6:08 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than most of you do. First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people grief. Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue it full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty problems. It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or even have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely doable but will require a lot more work to make it happen. Anyways, my long rant is over. Lol! Keep gaming my friends! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make chan
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Hi Dark, Dark said: However I do wonder, if the situation were this dire, why people bother creating new multiplayer games at all? My reply: Its not really that difficult to figure out. In short, it is just one of those hazards of doing business, and every developer understands sooner or later to hope for the best but prepare for the worst. If we developers gave up developing software simply because we know people will pirate it, attack our web servers, intentionally screw up a multiplayer game, etc then everyone both good and bad would suffer for the actions of a handful of antisocial individuals who are doing the damage for kicks. To put it another way look at it like this. Suppose every game developer out there decided one day to no longer offer any kind of multiplayer games to punish those folks who constantly go around attacking sites that offer them. Sure, they'd punish the miserable creeps who were doing the damage, but how many thousands, perhaps millions, of people who did nothing wrong have to suffer the same consequences too? The other issue is simply financial. Right now multiplayer gaming is a huge boom for game developers. If the game companies simply got rid of multiplayer gaming altogether to help protect themselves from the online creeps that would be the equal of killing the goose who laid the golden egg. They would take a huge financial hit if they are depending on multiplayer and online gaming for a large source of their income. Quite frankly its not something commercial companies could afford if they wish to stay in business. Part of the reason for that is once a new technology is released into the general public the company can't go back and expect people to do without it. For instance, back in the 1980's we were all satisfied with games like Packman, Space Invaders, and Astroids that all had simple graphics and animation. They had no network play, simple sound effects, and looked pretty cheasy compared to todays standards. Believe it or not people paid $40 for some of those games when they were brand new. Now days, if you want to sell a game for $40 to the general public it better have 3d graphics, realistic sound, good music, and probably will have some form of multiplayer capability since the XBox 360 and so on support it. Activision, Nintendo, and the other game companies that got their big start in the 80's could never totally go back to selling games on par with the games from the 80's not with the features something like the Play Station III and XBox 360 offer currently. Even retro remakes of games tend to have features like better graphics, animation, sounds, music, and/or multiplayer modes that were not present in the originals. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
we've certainly had a trol or two on audiogames.net, one even used the name Hal which was a litle unfair ;D. so what che said earlier does apply as well,as does what dentin mentioned about alterean. While both Jeremy and steven have mentioned good points about the vi gaming community, we're by no means all perefect by any stretch of the imagination. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Christopher Bartlett" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". Hello Steven, nice to meet you off the island. The problem of trolls is not a matter of sight; we've had a few through here as well. I shouldn't worry too much about a sudden influx that would cause any more problems than having a full multi-player game would in any case. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:05 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". hi Steven. well I will admit that my experience of graphical gaming on the net is zero, and the indi games i've played have been download only. communities there have been fine, and for anyone who plays brouser games they'll know that while we get the idiots in games like alterean, core exiles and sryth, i don't think anyone's tried to crash the server yet. However I do wonder, if the situation were this dire, why people bother creating new multiplayer games at all? Certainly new ones come out regularly on retroremakes etc, if however they were absolutely! likely to be trolled, hacked and genuinely harassed to death you wonder why people would create them? Maybe it'd be worth contacting the webmaster of retroremakes who has also to my knolidge built several multiplayer games, and asking for both his opinion and maybe some tips on avoiding the situaton if it's as inevitable as you suggest. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message ----- From: "Steven Strait" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than most of you do. First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people grief. Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play with you. By all means, I think that goal is great a
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Hello Steven, nice to meet you off the island. The problem of trolls is not a matter of sight; we've had a few through here as well. I shouldn't worry too much about a sudden influx that would cause any more problems than having a full multi-player game would in any case. Chris Bartlett -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 9:05 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". hi Steven. well I will admit that my experience of graphical gaming on the net is zero, and the indi games i've played have been download only. communities there have been fine, and for anyone who plays brouser games they'll know that while we get the idiots in games like alterean, core exiles and sryth, i don't think anyone's tried to crash the server yet. However I do wonder, if the situation were this dire, why people bother creating new multiplayer games at all? Certainly new ones come out regularly on retroremakes etc, if however they were absolutely! likely to be trolled, hacked and genuinely harassed to death you wonder why people would create them? Maybe it'd be worth contacting the webmaster of retroremakes who has also to my knolidge built several multiplayer games, and asking for both his opinion and maybe some tips on avoiding the situaton if it's as inevitable as you suggest. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Steven Strait" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". > Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading > through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a > small > topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd > toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than > most of you do. > > First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, > either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully > support > the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things > that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, > you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what > I've > seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at > Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that > truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore > together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and > as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing > Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! > Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. > > The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. > They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. > However, > there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for > everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run > rampant > on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own > twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo > Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually > became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. > However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the > Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing > what > I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply > did > it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. > Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran > rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing > other > players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time > players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down > constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other > people > grief. > > Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play > with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue > it > full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty > problems. > It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll > have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or > even > have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
hi Steven. well I will admit that my experience of graphical gaming on the net is zero, and the indi games i've played have been download only. communities there have been fine, and for anyone who plays brouser games they'll know that while we get the idiots in games like alterean, core exiles and sryth, i don't think anyone's tried to crash the server yet. However I do wonder, if the situation were this dire, why people bother creating new multiplayer games at all? Certainly new ones come out regularly on retroremakes etc, if however they were absolutely! likely to be trolled, hacked and genuinely harassed to death you wonder why people would create them? Maybe it'd be worth contacting the webmaster of retroremakes who has also to my knolidge built several multiplayer games, and asking for both his opinion and maybe some tips on avoiding the situaton if it's as inevitable as you suggest. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Steven Strait" To: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:08 PM Subject: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap". Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than most of you do. First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people grief. Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue it full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty problems. It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or even have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely doable but will require a lot more work to make it happen. Anyways, my long rant is over. Lol! Keep gaming my friends! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/lis
Re: [Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Welcome Steven! Allowing both blind and sighted players to seamlessly work and play together has always been a goal for us. Around half of our playerbase is blind, and we've had blind and sighted people playing side by side since the late 1990's. It's hardly new. I think the key to getting the blind and sighted to play together is to simply not surface the information. A blind-hating troll who can't tell if someone is blind or not will have a lot more difficulty finding targets. Frankly, the opposite problem exists too - I've seen close knit groups of blind players that intentionally excluded sighted players simply on the basis of being sighted. Again, not being able to tell if someone is sighted limits this quite a bit. That said, this only works well if the game is pretty close to equally accessible to both the sighted and blind. If both types of player aren't on a level playing field, there will always be those who claim one group is better or worse and try to make a big deal out of it. Dennis Towne Alter Aeon MUD http://www.alteraeon.com On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 6:08 PM, Steven Strait wrote: > Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading > through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small > topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd > toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than > most of you do. > > First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, > either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support > the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things > that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, > you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've > seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at > Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that > truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore > together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and > as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing > Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! > Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. > > The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. > They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, > there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for > everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant > on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own > twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo > Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually > became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. > However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the > Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what > I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did > it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. > Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran > rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other > players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time > players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down > constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people > grief. > > Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play > with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue it > full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty problems. > It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll > have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or even > have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely > doable but will require a lot more work to make it happen. > > Anyways, my long rant is over. Lol! Keep gaming my friends! > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages ar
[Audyssey] A Sighted view on "Bridging the Gap".
Hey there everyone, I'm Hatred, a friend of Aprone. I've been reading through the posts about his latest game, Castaways, and I've noticed a small topic about Bridging the Gap between Sighted and Blind gamers. Figured I'd toss in my thoughts on the topic since I have a different perspective than most of you do. First up, I think that having Blind and Sighted gamers playing together, either competitively or cooperatively, would be amazing and I fully support the idea. However, as a Sighted gamer, I've seen a lot of the bad things that can come from it so I have to warn you that if it's done incorrectly, you could end up having a lot more problems than you'd want. From what I've seen while browsing through the emails here and the forums at Audiogames.net, the Blind gaming community is full of awesome people that truly want to play new and inventive games. You guys seem eager to explore together, to build together, and to wage war together. That's awesome, and as a gamer I love that. Heck, that's one of the reasons I've been pushing Aprone to do more multiplayer games! I want to play with you guys too! Unfortunately, there are many Sighted gamers that don't feel the same. The majority of Sighted gamers are, in essence, similar to Blind gamers. They want to relax and enjoy the games they love with cool people. However, there are many that feel that they have the right to ruin the fun for everyone. Hackers, Spammers, Trolls, and just regular old Idiots run rampant on many multiplayer games, set on causing havoc for the sake of their own twisted fun. Aprone and I actually first met in a small game called Babo Violent 2, a multiplayer shooter game. We played together, and eventually became good friends. The game was fast, fun, and easy to pick up and play. However, it had little to no hack protection. I'll admit, I was one of the Hackers that found a lot of the security holes and had some fun seeing what I could do with the game. However, I wasn't malicious about it. I simply did it on my own, away from other players so as not to ruin their fun. Unfortunately, a large number of players thought differently. They ran rampant, making themselves invincible, cheating in the game, harassing other players, and even crashing the servers if they were bored. At one time players couldn't even get into a game because the servers were down constantly. It's sad but true, some people truly enjoy causing other people grief. Now, I'm not saying that you all should avoid having sighted players play with you. By all means, I think that goal is great and you should pursue it full force. However, be aware that with it comes some pretty hefty problems. It will require developers to rethink how they code their games. They'll have to take into consideration some form of anti-cheat programming, or even have a way for admins to remove cheaters from the game. It's definitely doable but will require a lot more work to make it happen. Anyways, my long rant is over. Lol! Keep gaming my friends! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
